Un Canadien errant - (Normand Harvey)Member since June 4, 2011
Habs fan since: 1970
Favorite current player: Andrei Markov
All-time favorite player: Lafleur-Mahovlich-Shutt-Robinson-Savard-Dryden
----------------------------------------------------------------------- It's somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.--Paul Rudd http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/
- Comment on Episode 16: The Carey Price Show and second-guessing Habs coach Michel Therrien (2015-01-28 16:00:49)
I'm not fond of the way they're interrupting kind of a cool thread back there. But I can't stay mad at Jessica.
- Comment on Canadiens give Price day off after win over Stars (2015-01-28 15:53:58)
Good points. If we parse the analogy eventually it does break down. Goalie and QB aren't completely identical positions. I'll go back to the original point, which is that a goalie has a similarly fundamental effect on a team that a QB does. A great one gives you a chance to win every game you play, even given substandard players around him. Also, that individual player makes those around him better. Yes a QB needs a good O-line, but an O-line needs a good QB also. The Chargers' patchwork offensive line, ranked near the bottom in most categories by Pro Football Focus, still looked halfway competent during this season, mainly because Philip Rivers legerdemained success out of disaster most games, mostly by getting rid of the ball quickly and allowing himself to remain sentient for the next play. Opposition pass rushers couldn't get near him before the ball was gone on the vast majority of snaps. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/01/08/2014-pff-offensive-line-rankings/ Similarly, Eric Decker was a Pro Bowler while catching balls for Peyton Manning, and cashed in on a big free agent contract from the Jets. He was a below average player this season catching balls from Gino Smith and Michael Vick. A QB needs good receivers, and is more effective with them, but that goes both ways, a QB can also make a receiver seem better or worse than he is. Sammy Watkins had a good year with the Bills, but exchange him for Giants phenom Odell Beckham and he might have gotten all the press catching balls from a QB like Eli Manning. As far as the baseball pitcher analogy, I agree there are a lot of similarities, a good pitcher can keep the game scoreless and give you a chance to win, like a goalie. I don't agree there is a similar impact on a team though, since they only play one game out of four or five.
- Comment on Canadiens give Price day off after win over Stars (2015-01-28 15:22:47)
I love having this discussion, and we essentially agree. We could go 'round and 'round on semantics, I used the words 'single-handedly', and I'll kind of stand by them. Patrick, with his guarantees and heroics and his wink and his overtimes, he was the biggest reason by far that we won those Cups, more than say Marc-André Fleury or Chris Osgood ever were on their respective teams, or Claude Lemieux or Bobby Smith ever were. Having said that, in my reply to Cal above, I link to a previous post where I outline what a stacked roster we had in '86.
- Comment on Canadiens give Price day off after win over Stars (2015-01-28 15:11:58)
You're missing the point Burli. That missed high-sticking call meant the Leafs were deprived of a certain goal on the subsequent powerplay, a certain win in Game 6, and a certain win in Game 7 after that. It's more pivotaler than the pivotalest moments in Stanley Cup history, like Don Cherry's "Heck, let's put eight men on the ice, see if that works...", or the Sabres-Stars 'toe in the crease' by Brett Hull. If Kerry Fraser had made that call, there's no way Patrick would have won all those overtime games against the Rangers, or that Marty McSorley would have used an overly legal stick to improve his snipeyness, or that Éric Desjardins would have raised his game to such a level that it would become a good idea to flip him and throw-in John Leclair for Mark Recchi.
- Comment on Canadiens give Price day off after win over Stars (2015-01-28 15:03:51)
We can go back and forth on the NHL goalie-NFL quarterback analogy, I do believe it's roughly equivalent. Yes a dominant QB can single-handedly win a football game, even despite a barely competent defence, it happens often in the regular season. Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, these days Andrew Luck are examples of players who hid big flaws on their team with their passing prowess. Of course, detractors use these same players as examples of why you can't win with a fancy offence, that these fall apart in the playoffs, in the big game when it counts. They say that they prove that defence is what wins championships. The converse is also true, following your example of average goalies going deep into the playoffs. The Seahawks won a Super Bowl last season with a Russell Wilson playing well within limits. The despicable Ravens won with Trent Dilfer, Washington with Mark Rypien, the Buccaneers with Brad John-Son. Unlike in hockey, when a journeyman goalie can get 'hot' for a month or so, a QB usually doesn't have these big swings in performance, their range is usually more narrow. Maybe we can hold Joe Flacco as an exception, a QB who focuses better in the playoffs. But these Trent Dilfer journeymen don't usually win the game by dint of their great performance, they're more like harbor pilots who keep the ship off the shoals, who don't screw it up. In that discussion with Kirk McLean, a point that was made was that having a Martin Brodeur, Patrick Roy or Dominik Hasek didn't just benefit you on the back end, but also in terms of general confidence, which spills over into the offence. The boys get more sure-handed and inherit a sense of inevitability, of destiny, and charge the opposition net imbued with a passion and purpose. Similarly, a defence that knows that its quarterback and its offence will get the job done can play 'above' their level. The Super Bowl Saints defence knew that Drew Brees would get them thirty points every game that season, they knew they could give up yards, that wouldn't be a problem. They sat back, played prevent defence, and waited for opportunities for turnovers. Giving Drew Brees the ball in good field position, giving him an extra possession or two was all they needed to do for a win. Same as the Canadiens in '93, they knew that if they kept the game close, Patrick would hold the fort in overtime, and eventually a puck would squeak by a John Vanbiesbrouck.
- Comment on Canadiens give Price day off after win over Stars (2015-01-28 14:39:12)
Great minds, buddy, great minds... See my post time stamped 2:19 pm above.
- Comment on Canadiens give Price day off after win over Stars (2015-01-28 14:34:50)
Denigrate isn't really what I'm doing, but being realistic, we got a couple breaks along the way, with the Oilers getting eliminated and the Penguins being knocked out for us in in '93, among other powerhouses. The Canadiens weren't bad teams, they suffered a little bit in comparison to the dynasty Guy Lafleur-Big Three-Ken Dryden teams, the Islanders or Oiler dynasties, or the Pens with Mario and Mario Junior. They were still very strong teams, as I was reminded watching an NHL Classic broadcast of the 1986 Stanley Cup Final Game 6 recently. http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.ca/2015/01/nhl-classics-game-6-of-1989-stanley-cup.html
- Comment on Canadiens give Price day off after win over Stars (2015-01-28 14:27:28)
Yes. In this case we got the breaks. We almost got the breaks in 2007, with Max and P.K. and another first-rounder, but a trade with the Rangers happened. Dem's the breaks.
- Comment on Canadiens give Price day off after win over Stars (2015-01-28 14:19:33)
Kirk McLean was on TSN 1040 and had an interesting discussion with hosts Blake Price and Matt Sekeres on the giants of goaltending of the previous era, in the wake of Martin Brodeur's retirement. They generally agreed that Marty was, within the bounds of that strict comparison, kind of the 'automatic' or system goalie, a superb player who gave his team a chance to win every time he was in the crease. Patrick Roy was the most intimidating, the guy who would psych out the other team most often right off the bat, making them think they didn't have a chance to win. Dominik Hasek was the goalie who, on the other hand, made you think you were close, the dam was about to burst, you came so close so many times, there were so many miraculous or flukey saves, that one or three was about to go in. And then as the third period went on you got frustrated and started pressing and lost heart. A mistaken conceit held by Blake Price is that, again within the bounds of that strict comparison, Patrick Roy could get a demerit or two for being on "strong teams", that since he was on Cup-winning teams, he was better served than Dominik Hasek with the Sabres. And a few people who didn't go through those eighties years believe that, that Patrick Roy's teams were stacked. They don't understand how much Patrick meant in '86 and '93. Sure the Avalanche years approached sinecure level, but within reason, Patrick single-handedly took the Habs to those Cups. I remember that overtime game against the Rangers in '86, how giddy we all felt in the nightclub-turned-pub for the occasion, that Patrick wasn't going to let one in, that the game was over, the Rangers knew it, we just had to wait and see how exactly the details would turn out. It was academic. The result itself wasn't in doubt, just the stats, the copy the journos would have to write. How Patrick stood up in the dressing room and told the team to go out and score against the Nordiques in the opening series in '93, he'd take care of defending against them, that gets forgotten. Because he had Joe Sakic and Peter Forsberg on his side later in his career, his importance and leadership when the chips were down and the series seemed lost against the Nordiques seems to be downplayed. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- It's somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.--Paul Rudd http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/
- Comment on Canadiens give Price day off after win over Stars (2015-01-28 13:45:13)
I think of him as having Benoit Brunet size or Mario Tremblay size. Not a hulking player, but above average size, enough to forecheck and throw some hits, to stand up for himself, especially in a 'team toughness' concept, and still be able to skate rather than tangrading out there.