Nilan offers advice for Habs’ Bourque on HI/O Show

What can the Canadiens do to get Rene Bourque to produce more?

That’s one of the topics discussed on this week’s HI/O Show on The Gazette’s website as former Hab Chris (Knuckles) Nilan joins columnist Dave Stubbs and sports editor/host Stu Cowan.

Nilan recalls a little motivational talk gave to a group of rookies on the Canadiens’ 1986 Stanley Cup-winning team and offers some advice for Bourque and coach Michel Therrien.

There is also a discussion about whether the reaction to Therrien benching P.K. Subban last week in Philadelphia was overblown, and Nilan recalls the time former Habs coach Jacques Lemaire made him a healthy scratch and how he reacted.

Stubbs offers some advice for GM Marc Bergevin on what type of contract he might offer defenceman Andrei Markov, who becomes a free agent after this season, and on his Knuckles Knockout segment Nilan gives his take on disallowed goals in the NHL, like Brendan Gallagher’s Tuesday night in the Habs’ 4-1 loss to the New Jersey Devils.

(Photo by Sterling Agres/HI/O Show)


  1. Mattyleg says:

    Good morning my delightful friends.

    I predict a win tonight.
    Then a loss on Saturday.
    Then a win in our next game.
    Then another loss.

    …seems to be the way things have been going, regardless of the opposition.

    Since Dec. 14, our record has been:

    Now THAT’S a solid .500 team if I ever saw one!

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  2. arcosenate says:

    How about a line of Jagr – Plekanec – Hemsky?

  3. HabinBurlington says:

    Those wanting Habs to trade Diaz may like to read this report, specifically the Habs report card etc…

    • CJ says:

      I’m all for moving him. I don’t think we would see much of a return, but anything is better then letting him walk as a UFA for nothing.

    • Cal says:

      Count me in as wanting a draft pick for Diaz. A robust Dman in return is probably way out of the question.

    • shiram says:

      It’s hard to think he would be worth more than say a third round pick.
      Given Bergevin’s modus operandi, I’d think he keeps his depth D, unless someone in Hamilton is lighting it up.

    • jacquesthemonkey says:

      Either a draft pick or package him with another player and get a better pick or an NHLer.

    • JUST ME says:

      We should not trade anyone unless EOTP tells us it`s O.K. …sigh…

      Not sure if a guy like Diaz will get us a solid player in return. We must not take the other G.M.`s for naive people. I think that a combo Diaz and someone else would be better.

      Actually if it is time to think about making moves one must consider giving away something valuable if he wants something of equal value in return.

    • New says:

      It’s an interesting article. Notice the Sabres. They traded away players for possibilities. The article indicates they are in good shape someday. The standings show they’re in bad shape now.

      What is Subban worth on the market? If you’re going up against a couple of the Western teams and you really want that Cup a couple times then what exactly would you give up for him? Would the increased gate offset the cost? Would the Habs dare?

      So there you go. Trading a bit player like Diaz, an accomplished player, as the centerpiece of a deal will benefit the buying team a lot more than Montreal…but trading a star…well look what happened when Gauthier traded Halak (not the payback…the blowback).

      Montreal never sells when the value is high, they always wait until the bubble bursts. Then we get to compare Cammi/Bourque stats but not Montreal/Calgary standings.

  4. HabinBurlington says:

    So the Oilers are now officially shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. Dubnyk out Scrivens in……

  5. BrianSkrudland says:

    Hopping on the highway from Brockville and heading to the game in Ottawa with my 9-year old son tonight. Can’t wait.

    We have yet to see Carey Price in net; always watched Habs’ back-ups between the pipes when we’ve been to games. Anyone know who’s getting the start tonight?

    I got our tickets in September and my big worry at the time had been that for some reason we wouldn’t get a chance to see Galchenyuk. Just my luck, he’s out!

    Daily recommendations for January 16
    Song of the Day: Over The Hills And Far Away (Led Zeppelin)
    Movie of the Day: The Truman Show

    • Harditya says:

      Carey will be in net tonight. I hope you guys get to witness a goal by Subban, it would be something your son would never forget! 🙂

      • BrianSkrudland says:

        Thanks for the heads-up on Price. My son is a big fan of PK, as well as Price, so seeing them both tonight will be great.

        I’ve got PK, Markov and Pacioretty in my hockey pool; so I have added reason to hope for big games from them tonight.

        Daily recommendations for November 18
        Song of the Day: American Woman (BTO)
        Movie of the Day: The Truman Show

    • CJ says:

      Small world. My uncle and his family live in Brockville. I played against the Tikis growing up.

      • CJ says:

        PS, great song choice. I’m a huge Zep fan

      • BrianSkrudland says:

        Not a bad little city overall. Nothing too exciting, but a decent spot to raise a family.

        Past and present NHLers have suited up for the local Jr A team, the Brockville Braves; most notably: Larry Robinson, Todd Gill, Doug MacLean, Ray Sheppard and Wayne Simmonds. Todd Gill owns the team now.

        Daily recommendations for January 16
        Song of the Day: Over The Hills And Far Away (Led Zeppelin)
        Movie of the Day: The Truman Show

    • 24 Cups says:

      Brian Skrudland – I played Smuggler’s Glen this summer and loved it. What a great golf course. My wife and I always take the early exit and drive along the Parkway into Brockville.

      • BrianSkrudland says:

        That is a heck of a golf course indeed, 24 Cups.

        Brockville musts, include: Don’s Fish & Chips; breakfast at Jon’s Restaurant; and….that’s about it.

        Daily recommendations for January 16
        Song of the Day: Over The Hills And Far Away (Led Zeppelin)
        Movie of the Day: The Truman Show

    • Phil C says:

      Not a bad article, but I disagree with the premise that corsi/fenwick predicts possession which then predicts wins. That is the underlying premise that allows the author to draw bold conclusions. At best, corsi/fenwick are correlated to winning, but fall well short of predicting it.

      One of the problems with corsi/fenwick is that it does not differentiate between the quality of the opportunities. A player who comes down the wing and flips a weak shot towards the goaltender because he is completely boxed out, is the same statistically as a team that breaks in 3 on 1, passes to the slot and puts it in the back of the net. Corsi/fenwick sees these two plays as the same.

      The second problem is that corsi/fenwick is not assessed relative to team strategy. The author admits that the Habs switched from a forechecking style to a trap style after 1 Nov. Those two strategies will almost certainly result in different corsi/fenwick stats, so a difference between them is not statistically significant compared to each other. A trapping style let’s the other team have the puck, but keeps them to the outside, clogging the middle of the ice, minimizing good scoring opportunities. Eventually through frustration or carelessness, the trap will work in the neutral zone, the puck is turned over, and a very good scoring opportunity is generated in transition for the trapping team. The trapping team will have a poor corsi score, but will have enjoyed the best scoring opportunity.

      It is noteworthy that the author states that the Habs’ Corsi/fenwick scores suffered after 1 Nov, yet their record has been better since then. The explanation? Ah yes, luck and goaltending, which won’t last. That must be it, otherwise you would have to conclude that the results are not statistically relevant, and we all know they won’t ever admit that.

      • Cal says:

        I find it incredible that stats fiends like them attribute skewed results to “luck that won’t last.” It demonstrates how illogical all that crap is.

        • CJ says:

          I agree completely. I understand the concept of regressing to the mean, but to share ten pages of statistical analysis and offset any standard deviation as luck is wonderfully rich in humour.

      • HardHabits says:

        Good analysis.

        As for Jerkshire, he is a pompous ass. And that site is full of indoctrinated losers who categorically dismiss anything that doesn’t jive with their corsi/fenwick narrative.

        I rarely visit that site if ever, and it’s only to roll my eyes at the Menstrual Synchrony that passes for commentary there.

        • Phil C says:

          “And that site is full of indoctrinated losers who categorically dismiss anything that doesn’t jive with their corsi/fenwick narrative.”

          Unfortunately they are are their own worst enemy in that regard. Instead of trying to understand the limits of the analysis and finding better ways to analyse the stats, or creating new data to collect that is more strongly correlated to winning, it will never move ahead and increase in value.

        • CJ says:

          If I recall correctly, based on their analysis the highest rated Canadien two years ago was Louis Leblanc. Tells you all you need to know about corsi/fenwick. Unless you align statistical analysis with proper scouting it’s utterly worthless. This isn’t baseball where you have a batter and pitcher locked into a singular event. There is too many moving parts in hockey to apply the same ideology.

          • Phil C says:

            Exactly with baseball. As well, getting on base can actually cause a run, it is not just correlated. Therefore OBP has way more predictive power.

        • DipsyDoodler says:

          Corsi/Fenwick predict future outcomes to a certain extent, but no better than goals for and against.

          Over the years consistently teams with positive goal diff make the playoffs and teams with negative goal diff don’t (it’s not a perfect correlation because of the divisional imbalance).

          So you could dispense with the stats altogether.

          But the greater point is this: what is the purpose of being a fan? To critically appraise the team?

          • Phil C says:

            I would imagine people find enjoyment out of hockey for many different reasons. If critical appraisal and statistical analysis float your boat, why not? The other end of that spectrum is the mindless cheerleader who supports the team no matter what without judgement, which makes a lot of fans feel good about themselves.

    • New says:

      It certainly has it’s merits. One of the posters threw in a screen cap of the opening ceremony. I had forgotten that, Lafleur handing the torch to Briere. Coupled with the article it makes you wonder about what management is thinking. Maybe Briere was the only one who wanted to go grab the thing, nothing more to it than that.

      The season is long. At the start I had them at 11th in the east. So far they are way better than that (4th). To me they are doing much better than I expected. That makes me hesitant to point at flaws in a coach, player, or team. They can tumble all the way to where Jersey is (11th) still be just a few points away from a playoff position, and I’ll just think “Well…there you go…”

      Maybe at the deadline Bourque will go to St Louis for Rattie or Schmaltz and boost St Louis into real contender status. But to me they are overachieving right now and it is hard to think they should be moar overachieving.

  6. jacquesthemonkey says:

    I can’t remember a Habs team that has had this many slumping players. DD, Max Pac, Eller, PK, Bourque, Brière, Gionta (I’m sure I’m missing others) have all had prolonged slumps at some point this year. There have only been few consistent players like Price and Budaj.

    • rhino514 says:

      It´s difficult to explain how a team that was fourth in the league I think last year in scoring can have such trouble scoring goals this year with essentially the same team. I never would have thought scoring would be a problem this year; I actually suspected the D could be a problem.
      The only good news is the talent is obviuosly there. they proved that during the ten game point streak as well; they have proved it this year against most of the top teams, like the Hawks recently.
      I´d like to see MT try the EGG line again, they had such great chemistry.
      To me, the guy they have to get going is Eller. He was the team´s best offensive centre over the last third of last season. Anyone can see he is immensely talented, and, no, he doesn´t have a bad attitude, he´s a rather mature young chap. I think he needs Gally or a more consistent winger in his right side.
      But this year´s team is definitely difficult to explain; as you mnentioned, I haven´t seen so many forwards underperforming in many years.

      • Max says:

        The habs are trying to play too cute.They are over passing as was witnessed last game and are always trying for the pretty,highlight goal.They could’ve scored two or three more on Brodeur if the shooter took the damn shot instead of trying to be fancy and making an awkward pass.

        In their minds they are a 2014 Mercedes but in reality are an 84 Hyundai Pony and have to start playing like one.

        Shooter takes the shot and whoever is near the crease has to get in there and cause problems and pick up the garbage.

        They don’t want to do this and continue to try to be pretty from the perimeter.

        • jacquesthemonkey says:

          Just park Parros in front of the net à la Yvon Lambert and start shooting!

          • Max says:

            That’d be a start.I certainly think he could be utilized a bit more for the size that he brings in front of the net.

          • Luke says:

            I would think that in addition to the size in front of the net, you’d like the guy you park there to have hands capable of deflecting the puck and being quick enough to scoop up short rebounds and shoot them.

            Sadly, I don’t see Murray or Parros possessing those kind of instincts or reflexes.

            I actually don’t think you need size in front of the net as much as you need a net presence. A larger player blocks more of the net from the shooter’s perspective too. Certainly, it’s easier for a larger player to maintain position in front, but I don’t think bigger is necessarily better.

    • scotland says:

      ya ever think it aint a slump?

      brierre – washed up (there was a reason philly paid him not to play)
      gionta – see scott gomez
      patches – on pace for 30-35 …. thats who he is
      dd – to small will always struggle with the odd great game
      bourque – lazy and does not care (ask calagarians)
      gorges – would not make most clubs top 6
      boulion – finishishing end of career cruising hab blue line poorly – see kabby, spacek, gill,
      plekanic – great defense forward – playing no center on pp???
      galagher – energy matched by nobody on team with the exception of fourth line Bournival. (and only to be run over more than price)
      prust – bouncing from line to line looking for his role for 100 games now. sometimes you see him sometimes you dont
      moen – has one game ……every month. rest of time struggles with and without puck
      parros – rarely and barley healthy since became a hab
      diaz – could play for the womens team at the olympics
      murray – nice guy replaces hal gill
      bournival – see galagher
      white – plays 6 minutes a night if he plays at all
      elar – lots of potential that will be stunted on a bad team without good leadership
      markov/subban/price – carry the entire team
      therrien – unfit

      fact that the east has only two great clubs, a few not bad and the rest very weak has allowed habs to sit a few points above the non play off teams. but down the stretch this team will go where it belongs ……………. out of play off picture and then start talking “next year”

  7. Shane Steps up to the big wheel and gives it a whirl.

    “round and round and round she goes where it stops nobody knows and it lands on………..GOOD EFFORT”

    YES, but does that mean they win? 😆

    HABS 6
    Sens 1

    Shane Oliver
    Twitter @Sholi2000
    Custom Sports Figures
    Summit Member

  8. adamkennelly says:

    we playing again tonight w/ 3 forwards capable of doing something offensively out there – Pax, Plek and Gallagher?

    should be fun.

    Hope we keep them the Sens to under 2 goals scored.

    • jacquesthemonkey says:

      I’d like to see MB shake up the forwards a bit. Either call up some guys from Hamilton or sign Simon Gagné for a tryout.

      • Kooch7800 says:

        Haven’t we learned anything from the Briere mess. Simon Gagne is an even bigger risk.

        I would rather a player on the dogs get a call up. If they want to build from within we need to develop players by giving them some NHL time as well

        “Keep your stick on the Ice”

        • jacquesthemonkey says:

          I didn’t say sign Gagné for 2 years for $8M. If Gagné could be had for the remainder the season at an entry level salary, what’s the risk? If there were Bulldogs that were tearing up the AHL, then it would be a different story.

          • Kooch7800 says:

            Gagne hasn’t been much more than a third line player the last few years so even if someone isn’t ripping it up in the AHL it is better to bring someone up for the experience long term.

            LL would be better on the Third line in my opinion as he can dig well on the boards an according to MT we are apparently a grinding team

            Just my opinion though

            “Keep your stick on the Ice”

      • 24 Cups says:

        I can’t see the need to sign Gagne when the team has Bournival sitting waiting in the wings.

        Once White comes back, it’s time to set Bournival loose.

        • jacquesthemonkey says:

          More TOI for Bournival would be my priority too. In many ways he’s like a Gallagher clone, speedy forechecker who doesn’t mind mucking around.

  9. habsguru says:

    i don’t think the next two games will win or lose the season. though sens have the Habs number, CH has been ahead of them all year.

    i would suggest that it is more so a style of play that is the reason, opposed to sens being a better team. Habs stack up much better against play styles of VAN, CHI, DAL, DET, rather than the knuckle dragging OTT, TOR, PHI.

    i want the next two games bad, Hate both opponents, but I think our HIO family needs to relax and enjoy being higher in the standings than MOST of the teams in the east.

  10. Cal says:

    Game day at last. This day off between them is just too much. I am wanting a solid victory for Mavid tonight, so our Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf can smile at all the Sens fans surrounding her at the game.

  11. CJ says:

    Could we worse…..I didn’t wake up a Vancouver Canucks fan this morning. Wow, 9-1.

  12. Max says:

    The habs need to go on a five or six game winning streak right about now.5 games minimum.

    The loser Laffs are like a bad cold and keep hanging in there and most of the teams below us are surging as well.

    This win one lose one,win two lose three nonsense has to stop.The next two games are vital and we can’t afford to give up loser points to anyone below us.

    Where’s the pride?

  13. RAM_TOUGH says:

    Tonight & Saturday night will be the turning point of the season for Montreal. If they lose those two then goodbye playoffs!


  14. Old Bald Bird says:

    I don’t know, as I sit here and catch up on comments this morning, I begin to feel that it might be easier on my nerves and better for draft position if the team was to not make the playoffs. They have played maybe one very good game in about two months, so what’s the point. OTOH, if they have a good weekend, I’ll be cheering like a fool.

  15. Habfan10912 says:

    Good morning friends. I hope the boys know how important this game is to one of HIO’s staples and come out blazing tonight. Win one for Mavid!

    • CJ says:

      Good morning! Yes, please, please beat Ottawa. If we do nothing else this trip, let’s at least take 2 points tonight. We could see our lead increase to nine points, or be reduced to a mere five points. Huge game. Go Habs!

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Morning Jim, trust you are well my friend. I am already starting to rationalize which jersey to wear to Habs/Leafs game Saturday. The Beliveau jersey continues to be undefeated, the Richard is no longer available as I donated that to last Summit, Lafleur or Price is available or I go no name.

      Given the Season esstentially rests on Price, that maybe be the choice, but I’m tempted to bring some class to the ACC and instead go with the Captain, Mr. Beliveau.

    • JohnBellyful says:

      I’m in a bit of a quandary, Jim. I got Canadiens undershorts for Christmas that I haven’t worn yet. It just didn’t seem right. But now with the team in a bit of funk, I’m thinking I should wear them for tonight’s game as a good luck charm.
      The thing is, if the Habs beat Ottawa, do I keep wearing them until they lose?
      (Actually I have the same question if they lose, Do I keep wearing them to show my unwavering loyalty to the team?)

  16. zephyr says:

    I remember the habs blasting Ottawa for most of the series. remember the 37 sog or so in 1 period in game 2 (I think)? a record & we still lost the game. play was really 1-sided but price crapped the bed by allowing the softest of goals each game. I also remember how the refs almost never called Ottawa for anything incl cross-checks to the face etc., etc.. they also ran price repeatedly & without consequence. the refs were silent & I suspect it was by nhl design. once Ottawa faced an American team, they were mystified why they were taking penalties all of a sudden.
    the aggressive forecheck/counterattack style was a very effective one & took advantage of team strengths esp speed.
    we have some big dmen in the pipes but no big, scoring fwds. we’re going to have to wait til our own picks develop. meanwhile, we need guys like chucky (who’s still filling out) & eller to continue their progress & we need guys like max & bourque. that’s it for scoring, power fwds. very tough to get a fa like that. t.o. tried with Clarkson & that contract is now a millstone around their neck.
    we need to be patient & not trade our prospects. that’s not worked out well in the past at all. I can see moving gio at the trade deadline. we might get a pick that would help us move up in the draft. it’s going to take some time to get more power fwds in our lineup. McCarron, crisp, de la rose, gregoire (205?), bozon & vail all will take some time. big guys are riskier picks because they take so long to develop. keep that in mind when ur crapping on bourque. he was very good against Ottawa & we have nobody to replace him. imo, he’s been getting his chances every game but has been a little snakebit by hitting posts.

  17. DipsyDoodler says:

    It’s cold this morning but it could be worse. I could be an artery inside John Tortorella’s brain, doing all I can to keep from bursting right now.

  18. BJ says:

    One of the main reasons that our Habs are not able to play all facets of the game and engage with certain bigger physically stronger teams and compete is as follows (what do all these players have in common?):Bouillon, Brisebois, Dandenault, Koivu, Kostopoulos, Kovalev, Lang, Ryder, Schneider, Souray, Streit, Tanguay and I’m probably missing others from recent memory…. If you said they all were let go without a single draft pick return or trade material, you have guessed correctly. Whats the point? The point being that even though some of the players were perhaps worth a 5th pick at best (maybe a potential Gallagher) and others certainly at least 2nd’s and in between, we ended up with nothing. Is it not the GM’s job to look into the future a bit and have a bit of a plan and try to maximize the potential return of soon to depart assets? That in my estimation is part of the current problems, we have little if any offensive resources in Hamilton (other than maybe Sven Andrighetto) and the “generational gap” we have in Hamilton is in part due to Gainey’s lack of foresight. So I think Bergevin needs some time to see if he’s the correct man for the job. My two cents worth venting some of the frustrations of the hot and cold team we love.

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      Gainey was certainly asleep at the switch during the big cull of ’09.

      To let assets like Koivu, Kovalev and Komisarek (at the time) go for nothing, and then trade McDonagh for Gomez. It’s a wonder the team didn’t go down the tubes. We only had one bad year.

    • rhino514 says:

      In most of those cases, we saved salaries. 4 to 5 million and change in some cases.
      Those salaries are equivalent to decent to good players being able to be signed in return.
      Maybe they could have squeezed a fifth or maybe even a fourth in a couple of cases, but teams don´t offer much when they know the player is a pending UFA. Splitting hairs.
      The only guy I wouldv´ve definitely kept from that list is Koivu, but with the Gomez fiasco of course that wasn´t going to happen.
      All of the other guys had issues. You have to ask yourself if Subban would have developped as quickly if playing second fiddle offensively to both Streit and Markov, for example, and defensively we´d be substantially weaker.

    • piper says:

      Souray could have brought a kings ransom back in picks as a pending UFA. Please don’t let that happen again this year MB.
      Just think what Markov’s return would be.

      • rhino514 says:

        I don´t think you can compare Souray to Markov!
        I liked Souray, he´s probably the only guy from that list apart from Koivu i would have thought of keeping, but his personality seems to take up alot of space on a team I´m not sure he was a good fit for Mtl. He went downhill after 2 or 3 years after he left us, no way of knowing what would have happened had he stayed with us.

    • jacquesthemonkey says:

      The Habs should have made many deadline trades over the years to get something for the players they had no intention of signing. However, most of those years the Habs were still in the playoff hunt so they were not “sellers”. Let’s hope they don’t make the same mistake this year. BTW, letting a FA go so that we can sign another one makes no sense because the pool of FAs is small and everyone is overpaying, ie. David Clarkson.

  19. twilighthours says:

    I did also like that article on the flash freeze in Norway. Finally, something useful there.

  20. CH Marshall says:

    You know what the problem is about Stubbs and Co saying fans’ reactions were overblown re PK and MT? Maybe it’s a bit rich to be passing judgement on how fans feel about it. Especially when we buy the Gazette and visit HIO.

  21. daveho29 says:

    Even when we beat the Sens and leafs, I’m sure the combined score won’t be 9-1.

  22. Something to talk about instead of swinging our Fenwicks around…

    Someone brought up Byfuglien here earlier, and Winnipeg badly needs better D and centres. We need size and scoring at forward and D. What would we think of Tinordi, Diaz, Desharnais, Leblanc and a 1st for Kane and Byfuglien? Both players could fetch a strong prospect and a 1st at the deadline, so it’s in the ballpark in terms of value. The added cap hit could be more than absorbed, especially with the expected $7m cap increase next year.

    Devils coach Jacques Lemaire on the Daneyko-Kaminski feud – “Daneyko got mad when Kaminski said he was going to knock his teeth out. Dano has only two teeth left, so you can’t say that to Dano.”

    • wildwilly says:

      Dream on.. It is a nice dream, though. The Jets would never go for it. I would do Gorges, DD, Leblanc, and a prospect for one of those two. I think that is more realistic.

      • Fair enough — though I think Tinordi and a 1st would be in the ballpark for Kane, even at deadline prices. Consider that Iginla went for a 1st and two unknowns, and Pominville and a 4th went for a 1st, a 2nd and two more unknowns. Bouwmeester fetched a conditional 1st, a 5’9 defenceman prospect, and a 26-year-old Swiss goalie. In that light, the deal looks pretty decent for Winnipeg. : )

        Devils coach Jacques Lemaire on the Daneyko-Kaminski feud – “Daneyko got mad when Kaminski said he was going to knock his teeth out. Dano has only two teeth left, so you can’t say that to Dano.”

        • Dust says:

          Differnece between kane and those other two you mentioned is age and Ufa status. The other two were soon to be ufas when traded – value goes down. The other two were much older players – kane hasn’t hit his prime yet.
          If the jets trade Kane they are going to get similiar to what Anahiem got for Bobby Ryan.
          A top six forward a 1st round draft pick and a prospect. That’s the going rate for young players with superstar potential who have allready produced in the nhl.
          Tinordi and a 1st is not enough.

    • Habfan17 says:

      I brought up the question about acquiring BYfuglien since it was reported by Katie Strange, ESPN, that she believes he will be moved soon. Both Byfuglien and Kane have had issues, so trading for them could be a risk. I would give up Gorges, Diaz and LeBlanc for Byfuglien. To get Kane, I would trade DD, a second in 2014, a first in 2015 and Bourque. Would Winnipeg accept either of these proposals, probably not, but If they would insist on Beaulieu and Tinordi, I would say no thanks! The Habs have enough depth to give up the players I mentioned in my opinion.

  23. Habcouver says:

    I’ll be traveling to Montreal next week. How difficult would it be to get a ticket to the game vs. the Caps on Saturday?

    Waiting patiently for #25

  24. Timo says:

    Habs are getting closer and closer to not being in the playoffs. That’s nice.

    • scotland says:

      been saying all season that the habs will miss the play offs timo. team is built to play about half a season. therriens teams never gell or get better as year progresses. that little suck fit he had in philly last week where he threw in the towel. get ready for more of that from this bush league coach.

      bourque and boulion getting powerplay time. elar not. lol

    • Habilis says:

      Leafs are only 4 back of us now. Won’t be long till we’re in that wild card mix again.

      You know you’ve played bad hockey when the Loafs are gaining ground on you.

      I expect management to right the ship the way they always do… by doing nothing.

      • The Jackal says:

        Oh yeah, the Leafs are 4 back of us now, so they are not too far behind the B’s. And they still have to worry about the wildcard logjam and the other 4 teams gunning for those spots who are also behind us. What a way to make a situation look way worse than it actually is.

        Hockey sine stercore tauri.

        • Habilis says:

          How is stating a fact making the situation look worse?

          That logjam you talked about, the Leafs are leading it, and we’re only 4 points clear right now. That’s not overstating anything, that’s just math.

          You can look at it through rose colored glasses if you want. But the way we’ve been playing, I don’t see how anyone can.

  25. Sportfan says:

    Hey if advanced stats is going to tell who’s going to win whats the point in watching right -_-

    Sports and Entertainment in the link click and enjoy, clicking is fun!

    • krob1000 says:

      who has time to watch..i have my calculator and corsi guide and am buying proline tickets at multiple stores while you suckers watch the inevitable happen

      • HardHabits says:

        Exactly. If they knew all the number crunching answers capable of predicting who, what, where and when… they’d be placing bets and not circle jerking incessantly trying to out peck each other to the pinnacle of statsturbatory ecstasy.

    • CH Marshall says:

      Exactly. Might as well be like Biff Tannen with the almanac in B2TF 2

  26. GL says:

    Sorry Guys. Ottawa Wins tomorrow night JMHO. Toronto just 4-points behind. After Saturday Maybe 2-points ???????????

  27. The Jackal says:

    That EOTP article was alright not but enlightening.
    It’s funny how they criticize management and MT for playing guys who contribute toughness and other intangibles and then call them bad decisions. Ask any hockey person, those are real contributions that help teams. Not only that, they fail to note that Cube and Murray and other FA signings were low-risk moves that did not use any assets like previous GMs who have left us with a depleted prospect pool.

    On top of that, the resident experts (and which hockey fan isn’t an expert today?) criticize MT for switching systems, citing their stats (which I agree are helpful and are good indicators) while ultimately making them mean way more than they can actually mean and treating them as absolute markers of performance. But back to the systems talk. It has been noted, and it has been so here too, that last year and early this season, we played a high-tempo puck possession game that was highly effective. And it was, was being the operative word.

    Remember when we played the system in question? Everyone was asking how long it could last – how long can an undersized team keep playing that style without burning out and getting banged up. While that was definitely a relevant question, the other point at issue that seems to fly over the heads of the critics, is that other teams figured out how to stifle that system – it was rendered ineffective. Combine that with the high physical toll it took, and it’s no surprise the team was forced to change it up. Recall last year’s playoffs – the Sens (ugh) figured out our system and nullified it. We came back this season with a similar system but that too was easy to counter once the book was out.

    MT does not have many options with the current roster. While that may be MB’s domain to improve, the fact is that MB has not hurt the team at all due to his signings, and that is primarily because he has forgone using our promising prospects in bad deals. Perhaps his signings did not pan out the way he expected, and that is a valid critique of his regime, but MB’s main goal is to build a contender through the draft (and through trades and other smart moves). He is working towards that goal. Although the signings are a mixed bag, they have not sacrificed the future, and besides, no free agent would have turned this team into a contender, so Briere instead of Morrow may be a talking point today, but it won’t have made a difference to the cup champions of 2014 and 2015.

    In the end, EOTP is a blog that uses advanced stats, but it is a blog run by fans – not journalists, just amateur fans. More power to them for doing what they love, but their analysis often relies on the stats way too much, and is privy to the emotional ups and downs that come with fandom, one of those being the “push the panic button” and “grill the GM for X signing.” The article doesn’t say anything we have not already heard, nor does it shed light on the arguments we already hear on regular basis.

    Hockey sine stercore tauri.

  28. JohnBellyful says:

    No comment.

    [Edit: And yet it’s comment number 114. Now that’s just weird.]

    • krob1000 says:

      and there are 3 periods in your post…like a hockey game…woah…coincidence or not? All I hear is the twilight zone theme right now….eerie. It is quiet here…maybe a little too quiet?

      • JohnBellyful says:

        With the wonderful software that runs this site, maybe the counter can be tweaked to break down the ongoing posts this way:
        Comments 74; Rants 132; Trades 68; Line combos 21 …

        Just so we get a feel of where the discussion has been … and is headed.

        • krob1000 says:

          nah that won’t represent things in an advanced enough fashion….we need Corshi ….that is what we will call advanced statistical analysis of our discussions. Core will be hockey related posts and Shite will represent …well …shite. We will then track who was online and signed in for each and voila!…we’ll know who can stay and who has to go. Must admit Belly….am worried about your shite rating! lol

  29. CH Marshall says:

    Maybe it’s a TV thing, but has anyone seen LeBlanc live? Does he have the speed and skills to play 3rd line?

    • krob1000 says:

      I actually think he will succeed somewhere as a 2nd liner…..or depth scorer. He is very, very intelligent….more intelligent than he is skilled. I don’t think his skillset fits the role Montreal has in mind for him and it is a shame because I think he would actually be a complimentary player to the right linemates. He needs people of similar hockey IQ but better skills to really flourish….

      gonna say something controversial…I think his limited time in Montreal with the big club was similar to that of Gallaghers…except Gallagher got top line minutes andhas an energy level that got him promoted. So in a sense Gallagher earned it…well actually he totally did…but I still believe Leblanc could be as productive in a similar role. I think the same re eller or even Briere in the DD role. Not much different there.

      • CH Marshall says:

        Interesting. I was just thinking about Chipchura ‘s case earlier and thought, surely LL could succeed somewhere. Maybe he’s not Marian Hossa or Pleks, but he’s gotta have something to offer

        • krob1000 says:

          Leblanc’s skating is better than Chips..that is what blew it for him. He had to totally reinvent himself…had the heart and character to do it too… pretty impressive really. He now drops the mitts regularly…but that fine line is all the difference…if he never gets injured he is likely a 40 point shut down guy and Pleks gets an offensive role.

  30. krob1000 says:

    Unless you have several very dismal seasons “building through the draft” to me is like planning to retire on lottery tickets. All that is built through the draft if you are consistently a middle of the road team is depth….you may get lucky every few years (ie Pleks, Markov and PK) but for every one of those several 1st rounders and 2nd rounders failed. There is only one rule…improve your team at every opportunity…whether that is draft, trade, free agency…doesn’t matter. The good news is mixed in those years of mediocrity were two rough seasons that landed Price and Galchenyuk….now the key is to be competitive either while Pleks, Markov are still around….or if that is not the plan…then get something back for them. I prefer to keep them….land a rental player that can possibly be resigned as a free agent…and try to make a splash in free agency. Right now Montreal has the ability with another goal scorer to be a good playoff team….assuming health and Price playing at this seasons level. However, the deadline IMO will be crucial……renting a player may help this season but it may also give you a better shot at retaining that player in free agency…I would only target a rental that is worth trying to resign…if it doesn’t work out…so be it…by the time this years draft picks “work out” the core of the team will likely be different and posters will still be saying the team is rebuilding….newsflash…every team is always rebuilding.

    • The Jackal says:

      I agree with you krob except on your point about building through the draft.

      If we take that to be true, we find ourselves in a situation in which teams are locked in a cycle of victory and mediocrity. Trades and FA signings that truly improve teams without handicapping them down the line are extremely rare and trades where both teams “win” are even rarer. History has shown that big money FA’s tend to bust and even if they perform, they handcuff their new team with the cap space and teams tend to lose out on key talent that has to be let go.

      The draft is the best way to remain a contender for a long time. With proper scouting, it is possible to get 1-2 bonafide NHLers each draft. Combined with good asset management, a team can have a solid pipeline of young talent coupled with veteran experience. Detroit is the best example of this, and it seems this is the year where we get to question their approach, if only because they are having a subpar season. But nonetheless, they’ve been able to weather injuries to key players by using their young talent.

      When a team can rely on their prospects to rise to the occasion and challenge for a roster spot, then that team can usually be said to be competitive for the long-term. This is not some kind of absolute rule but more often than not, drafting well is the best route to continue to be successful and free a team from relying on moves that may backfire.

      Hockey sine stercore tauri.

      • krob1000 says:

        the only teams I consider successfully built throught he draft are Chicago and Pittsburgh….all had several years of elite picks. The Red Wings are often used but they were notorious for landing aging superstars and honestly I believe it was the culture of excellence through the Shanahan, Yzerman, Fedorov, Hull, Robitaille, Coffey, Murphy, etc,etc, that played a big role in the development of their gems in Lidstrom, datysuk and Zetterberg. they all saw hall of famers annually put the team play and goals ahead of themselves….they all learned how to succeed. which other successful organizations have been built through the draft? those are the only three I can think of and they are all exceptions….and for each of them there is the Columbus, Edmonton, Islanders,etc,etc. total crapshoot…

        • HardHabits says:

          St. Louis aint too shabby. And Chi and Pitt have 4 SCF appearances and 3 Cups between them and that is in recent history. Both are favourites to go all the way again and are clear contenders. Last year the final 4 were all recent Cup winners. Habs are nowhere near that level.

  31. Cal says:

    Another 15 minutes very well spent. Who knew that Stu and Stubbs would find chemistry with Knuckles? And does there have to be the letter “u” associated with your name/nickname to get on the show?

  32. DipsyDoodler says:

    Are they kidding? Another shoutout win for the Leafs!

  33. Cal says:

    Hot off the Internet. EOTP knows better than the management team in Montreal that has a combined 800 years of NHL experience.
    They know so much they blog about it. Their credibility is off the scale. Way off, in fact.
    It is to laugh.

    • CJ says:

      There is certainly value in statistical analysis. I recognize the advanced measures which can have a practical application in terms of identifying match-ups, tendencies, etc.

      That said, we also can’t discount the value of watching the game played live. I’ll restate an earlier point – scouts attend the games in person to help make key personnel decisions. They don’t rely solely on a print out or database when making million dollar determinations. There has to be balance.

      • Cal says:

        Actually, CJ, when it comes to hockey statistical analysis shouldn’t trump your eyes when you watch the game. “Moneyballing” hockey will never work because in every arena there are different officials with different standards tabulating the numbers. Baseball is so much easier because just about anyone with a little knowledge can keep score and the game is so slow they can make notes during play. Not so with hockey.

        • CJ says:

          I agree, it shouldn’t and as far as I am concerned it doesn’t. Like I said, watching a game live is the purest way to evaluate play, talent, etc. Cheers, CJ

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      “The team isn’t doing well fire the coach”. Dress it up all you want it’s what fans gave been saying since sports were invented. Nothing sophisticated about it.

      (OK since coaching was invented. There were probably cavemen chasing skulls or rocks a long time before coaches came along).

      • Thomas Le Fan says:

        What does an NHL head coach do? He doesn’t teach players how to play hockey, does he? His job is to motivate and make sure they’re prepared, no? And maybe make in game reactions to things that are not working. How can anyone say that the Therrorist does any of those things well? He tinkers with lines and defensive pairings, mostly to no good end and as far as I’m concerned shows no ability towards reacting during the game to things that aren’t working. Good coaches get the best out of their teams. Good teams make a coach look like a genius. It’s as simple as that.

        Hockey isn’t everything … it’s the only thing … except for beer and guitars!

    • JUST ME says:

      If you scroll down you will find that they find lots of readers that are as knowlageable as them … In case you did not notice HIO has quite a few of those connaisseurs who are ready and willing to scratch everything after 18 months of this management.

      Like P.K. said today, a lot of people know everything in Montreal.

    • HardHabits says:

      EOTP have their heads up their stats.

    • CH Marshall says:

      Kinda miss seeing their “I know more than everything” posts. But it’s all good, we can still troll pretty hard without em

  34. Where is Jaroslav Halak Playing in 2014-15?

    Odds- Buffalo (2-1), Philadelphia (25-1), Carolina (5-1), Calgary (10-1), Edmonton (3-1) NY Islanders (2-1)

    Place your bets

    Shane Oliver
    Twitter @Sholi2000
    Custom Sports Figures
    Summit Member

  35. 100HABS says:

    So, has anyone been to McDonald’s and actually tried the “Gallagher”? I actually thought this was a joke, but after seeing the commercial a dozen times, I’m assuming it’s true. Who would pay good advertising $ for a joke?

    If you’ve tried it, please tell me if it’s worth a try…

  36. ooder says:

    since the bourque cammalleri trade the numbers are:
    Bourque: 100 gp 18 goals 10 assists = 28 points
    Cammalleri: 109 gp 37 goals 35 assists = 72 points

    Not to mention we did nothing with the extra cap space and still have one more year of crappy Bourque.
    what a stupid trade. i seriously hope we stop giving away talent just because a player doesn’t agree with the holy word of management.

  37. Just wanted everyone to know that we are working very hard to move Moen, Gionta and Bourque unfortunately no one wants them.

    Stay tuned, I promise to do my best to bring in a player that could help us be more offensive.

    tic tic tic

    Shane Oliver
    Twitter @Sholi2000
    Custom Sports Figures
    Summit Member

  38. habsfan0 says:

    Buff 2 Laffs 1

  39. Caesar says:

    Hey Boone what ever you do to make the comments disappear, please re create it on trade deadline day or if a major Habs trade happens sooner. People would be going nuts on here.

  40. CH Marshall says:


  41. Mattyleg says:

    The Case Of The Disappearing Comments Section!

    Quick, get Encyclopedia Brown on the case!!

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  42. SlovakHab says:

    If there is only one Habs-related article that you will read today, please make it this one.

    I know he isn’t popular here, and I equally dislike the way he discusses with others (I don’t even comment there, even though most of their articles are good to excellent). However he hit the nail pretty well there, and the discussion below the article is equally good.

    There is a lot of evidence that MT and MB have been disintegrating this team in 2013-14 after a promising shortened season, and all that has been written in that article makes a lot, lot of sense to me. Hopefully it is not too late to reverse the trend.

    • JUST ME says:

      Will not lose one second of my day to read that. Do you realize that this management has been in place for less than a year and a half and already some wise nobody should be taken as a valuable source of concerns about the plan that has just been put in place ? Come on !
      The team is doing better than most expected.
      Bulldogs are aiming for their best season since 2010 and the draft choices are doing o.k either in Hamilton in junior or in their country. Could we have a little time to build something? Reverse the trend !!!! Wow !

      Any nobody is a cause for panic and is taken for granted in MTL . EOTP, HIO, L`antichambre, TSN RADIO, the famous Eklund and who else ? Oh yes i forgot the great TIMO !

      • SlovakHab says:

        The narrative “This team is doing better than most expected” is exactly why you should read the piece.

        It shows how this team is on the downward spiral, and how we are getting worse. Outshot, outplayed, outcoached. Thanks to Price for that little cushion on the non-playoff teams.

        So no, this team is trending down and it can be shown that both MB and MT made some very bad decisions.

        Let me quote just one of the comments that I fully agree with, but I’m serious – read the piece and then discuss with me.

        By Robert Rice, under the article:

        Murray averages close to 11 minutes of even-strength TOI per game. By all the data, those are 11 minutes where the team is comically outshot and outchanced and that is a lot of ES time to just burn away in an attempt to get some vaunted ‘toughness’ on the ice that really just kills you on GA.

        Bergevin’s pen has yet to sign a truly quality deal in 2013 outside of the 2-year bridge contract he finally got Subban to take, which is in itself a waste as he didn’t use that extra cap space from not giving Subban a long-term deal to significantly improve his team for contention. The issue in his poor signings is he doesn’t seem to value what would really make the Canadiens a better hockey team.

        As for Therrien being bad at his job this season, it really is simple.

        1. He’s taken a team that was successful in using puck-possession hockey that emphasized controlled zone entries to a system that doesn’t fit them at all in dump-and-chase.

        2. He has routinely chosen to skate players who by all the metrics, are AHL-class players rather than NHL players in Bouillon, Parros and Murray because he thinks they can contribute.

        3. He has continued his ‘war’ with P.K. Subban to try and prove he’s large and in charge by benching him for nonsense he wouldn’t dare bench his ‘boys’ for.

        4. He routinely shows he is mentally insecure about playing against a Toronto, Boston or Philadelphia, skating his AHL-class players against them in fears that he must ‘match’ the physical nature of these teams rather than do what a Mike Babcock or Joel Quenneville does and say “you’re going to play our game, we will dictate the terms, if you can’t keep up with us, too bad.” You do not become a concillatory coach who agrees to play it the other team’s way.

        5. He took his top rookie Michael Bournival and buried him in the lineup when he was playing well and has done so for months. No explanation, especially when in a “No Excuses” era of “accountability” he easily outplays guys like Prust and Bourque for Top-9 time.

        6. Therrien’s most offensively creative player at forward in Alex Galchenyuk, pre-injury was absent from the power play for weeks. He has no issue giving cherry time to Briere or Bourque in a vain attempt to get them going but an elite young player and a potential superstar in the making is being blocked from having a chance to hone his offensive skills to make room for such players? How is this development?

        7. The excuses. He’s always got one now that absolves him of any blame. The “no excuses” mantra certainly doesn’t apply to him.

        • Eddie says:

          I’m right with you Slovak Hab and I agree with every word Serious Fan 09 wrote in his comment. Every word.

          Robert Rice is a real good hockey guy, too. He and Chris are the two strongest posters I’ve read on this site. Those boys know their hockey big time .

        • wjc says:

          So did anyone do anything right.


          • SlovakHab says:

            – Timmins drafted pretty well give us some of our best players – Pacio, Price, Subban.
            – Molson spent up to the cap to be able to sign average FAs.
            – plus we have been healthy

            That’s what keeps us afloat and alive.

    • CJ says:

      The article is decent enough. My question to the author though is what’s his solution? Berkshire reminds me of the leader of the opposition in any political platform. He offers a statistical analysis of the team, but offers no solution. It is very easy to critique without putting forward your suggestion, for it’s own critique. His only solution, as I read it, is Therien better change his system or Bergevin should replace him.

      What I read here is an author who has used statistical analysis to call out Douglas Murray, and to a lesser degree, Therien and the team for altering their style of play, yet hasn’t the backbone to include his own solutions within the article.

      In closing, let me do the same thing. You know who leads the league in giveaways – Erik Karlsson. What conclusion should we draw? Stats don’t always tell us everything. Can we qualify how the outcome of games can be influenced through subjective decisions made by the on ice and off ice officials? Quite simply, the answer is NO.

      • SlovakHab says:

        The solutions are there, and are quite simple.

        1) return to puck possession hockey that we played last season – or find a new coach that does it.

        2) analyze players before you sign them. do not sign the worst defencemen in NHL. Do not sign old players that have clearly shown are over the hill (Cube, Briere)

        We do not know who was available in FA market, but there should have been put more thought into it than “we need big players” and “we need French players”. I’m sorry but there were good options out there. We don’t know who would have signed, but the acquisitions that have been done, have been pretty bad.

        As for coaching, I mean come on. Therrien was good last year, but for some reason changed the style in November and the whole team (save Price and Budaj, and maybe Markov) got significantly worse.

        So yes, there are hints or solutions in my opinion. And they have suggested some more in their previous blogs and articles. It is not an isolated piece, their body of work contains a lot of analysis, suggestions and data.

        As a person, I’m not a fan of Andrew B. and I wouldn’t call him a kind person or a good listener. He is hard to discuss with. However, this piece is spot on and empirically, it has been proven that weak possession teams have absolutely no chance to get the Cup. If nothing changes with this team, we are going down a la the Leafs.

        • CJ says:

          I’m not contesting your arguments, but I don’t get the author. To your point regarding UFA, we assume players want to come here. Maybe nobody did. I don’t know. Maybe the only UFA defencemen who was willing to sign in Montreal was Murray. It’s entirely hypothetical, therefore it remains subjective only. If we know that Montreal could have chosen player A, B or C and chose the wrong one, then we can look back, with the value of hindsight, and say we got that wrong.

          Playing or becoming a team committed to play a puck possession game sounds easy. It would make sense to say that we should have dictated the play against New Jersey and forced them to wheel and skate with us, but that’s not reality. We currently don’t have the personnel to dictate play. We become an effective team when we score first, the way we did last night, and then defend, forcing our opponent to take long chances to tie the game. When we win we do so by exploiting those chances and capitalizing. We win with sound defence, excellent goaltending and timely goal scoring.

          I appreciate statistics, more then anyone would care to imagine. I work in a business in which our product is a derivative of advanced alga rhythms. As a result I appreciate both the practical application of statistics and the manner in which said statistical data can be manipulated. In summary, watch a game live. You can’t cheat. This is why scouts come to the game and don’t get a spreadsheet of data figures when assessing a player.

          • Bob_Sacamano says:

            Yeah right, only Murray wanted to come. Sorry but that´s pure nonsence. We signed Murray in August, the Panthers got Tom Gilbert in September for less money.

            We signed Briere on July 4 th, on July 5th the Sens signed MacArthur for less money.

          • CJ says:

            You are suggesting that, until the date a player was signed he was willing to come here for the same money? MacArthur may not have wanted to come to Montreal. Sure, it’s true I don’t know this to be fact, but I also won’t suggest that it was a certainty that we could have signed him.

            MacArthur has been a gem. He is having a career year, enjoying a first line role in Ottawa with all kinds of PP time. He is also playing on a team in which five players have over 30 points. We have a grand total of one – PK, who has broken the 30 point plateau. It might have worked, it might not have.

        • wjc says:

          How did they manage to beat Chicago?

          Murray adds grit, Murray helps Price.

          Just bloggers doing their thing, blogging.

          Therien was good last year, now he is not. Do you think he operates in a vacuum. Management at all levels are involved in decision making.

          Canadiens need to get bigger and english or french is not important if they can play. Temporary fixes, to let players develop in the minors instead of playing 10 games and being written off by some Blogger.


      • Bob_Sacamano says:

        There are so many simple solutions to make this team better without even needing some real effort:

        – Never play Murray again
        – Never play Parros again
        – Avoid playing Bouillon
        – Call up Pateryn
        – Move Emelin to the left
        – Give Eller some real PP time
        – Stop playing someone like Gorges on the PP. Try Emelin on the second one with Diaz or a forward. Maybe Eller.

        These are just the first seven things that came to my mind. I think overall Therrien knows that ignoring these simple and mostly obvious moves isn´t very smart. He can´t possibly believe that having Gorges or Bouillon on the 2nd PP makes any sense. He isn´t that dumb.

        It might sound stupid at first but I think that Bergevin and Therrien both have no real interest in getting a top spot for the playoffs. Finish in 4th, 5th or 6th and no one can be surprised if you lose in the first round. If you win the first round you can sell it as a success.

        • CJ says:

          I agree with that. Bergevin has previously said that he believes we are still a ways away. I think the team has an eye on the future more so then the present, which I support.

          • Bob_Sacamano says:

            When you look at the very poor Eastern Conference and all the great contracts the Habs are having this season, it feels like a wasted chance. Imagine how good this team could be had Bergevin only signed Jagr or MacArthur than Briere and a real dman instead of Murray?

            Add better coaching and who knows? The only thing Bergevin should get credit for is not risking the future by giving away prospects and draft picks or signing someone like Clarkson to a ridiculous contract. On the other hand he hasn´t made a single move since the Cole trade to make this team stronger and that´s pretty sad.

          • SlovakHab says:

            The evidence is that some of our youth has regressed comparing to the last season, so I’m bit worried about our future with the style of play Therrien is teaching them this season.

            It really is laughable that this team can’t break out of the zone properly.

            Just ice the puck, kids!

          • Eddie says:

            If Price does not carry this team on his back we are in big trouble. In fact, if Price does not have a 2nd half that matches his first half I think we will collapse, and we will miss the playoffs.

            Playing this system has Killed our 5 on 5 game which means our power play is all we have left. At 0 for our last 18 chances…….we’re in deep trouble.

          • SlovakHab says:

            I agree with Bob.
            With better coaching and more suitable FA signings, it’s pretty much between us, Bruins and Pens as to who gets to the cup finals.

            We could have been really good this year.

          • CJ says:

            Bergevin, Timmons and the management team had a solid draft. That’s a step forward. We got Waite, another step forward. Lapointe and Breisbois are working with our young prospects and results are starting to show. It’s been a year and a half. Let’s reserve our judgement. If we don’t see results within the third to fifth year, sure I will be upset. I don’t think this is the point on the timeline to asses Bergevin’s body of work. That time will come, and I look forward to engaging in that debate. Unless this franchise and it’s fan base is prepared to be patient, you can expect the same results.

        • wjc says:

          Might appreciate Murray when Lucic comes to town.

          Let Pateryn develop for this year and he can handle the pressure next year.

          Keep Emelin with Markov

          Therrien and Bergevin want top spot, this is what they do as a career, you really think they want to drop lower.

          This is a multi-million dollar toy and playoffs makes more profit. They would not chance falling out of the playoffs. Parity means that any team can win on any night.

          You are right it did sound stupid, glad you could see that.


        • wjc says:

          Well someone has to be the worst.


          • CJ says:

            Nobody craps on their players like Montreal fans. We sign a UFA, for what $1.5 million if I recall correctly, use him sparingly and he is identified as the source of our demise? And then people wonder why players might just not want to come here.

            Murray didn’t cost us a pick. He is a six-seven defencemen. Costs little money. Am I missing something?

          • SlovakHab says:

            He’s costing us goals against, which is sort of big deal for me, as I happen to be Montreal Canadiens fan and dislike other teams scoring on us.

            $1.5M is $3M prorated, which is a decent player at deadline, if needed.
            All fans complain if their players are no good. Recently, a Shark blogger crapped on Murray (pointing out his bad stats with Habs on Twitter).

            BTW he is not identified as a ‘source’, but as one of many pieces of evidence that point out to MB and MT having flawed hockey thinking.

          • CJ says:

            I don’t think you understood the use of the word “source”.

            Respectfully, we are all Canadiens fans. I don’t appreciate the condescending remark. I welcome the opportunity to debate issues with you, however please don’t do there. No hard feelings here. Cheers, CJ

      • habcertain says:

        lets start with the first paragraph suggestion and go from there.

    • MikeHabs says:

      I recommend people read this. I also did earlier today and it was extremely well-done and hits all the points.

    • Thomas Le Fan says:

      A f’n men.

      Hockey isn’t everything … it’s the only thing … except for beer and guitars!

  43. habbernack says:

    If MB would have signed Jagr instead of a name on the back of the jersey we would probably be ahead of the Bruins

    • wjc says:

      Jagr is a terrible idea, what good does he do, he is temporary. His age is against him if you are building for the future.

      Jagr is a bad idea, he was looking for a contract and he plays Montreal to get a good deal somewhere.

      Briere is a temporary fix and may not be back next year, so get your panties out of the knot.


      • SlovakHab says:

        So what you are saying is that Jagr would be a worse temporary solution than Briere.
        Less scoring, less experience, less size. That’s what we needed, right?
        You missed how Jagr deked Gorges out of his jockstrap in the last game, didn’t you.


  44. NoTinFoilCups says:

    Lots of trade talk. So I’ll throw one in there. Ryan O’Reilly becomes available on the 28th of February. What if we offered up a mix of expendable players plus a first rounder? I was thinking DD/Diaz (bring up Pateryn) and a first. Or instead of DD how about Bourque since he probably a better asset in the eyes of other GMs?

    Our first this year will likely (hopefully) be deep in the first round in a weak draft year.

    • slapshot777 says:

      I don’t think we are going to see MB be making many trades involving picks from the top 3 or 4. He said before he want to build through the draft. The way the League is set up know free agents and trades just don’t give you much of a return anymore.

      Just look at Edmonton and the trade they made with LA. They gave LA a third round draft pick for Scrivens who lost his job to a rookie goalie that came up for the injured Jonathan Quick.

      The economics of it just doesn’t make sense anymore. Everyone wants the farm for their players and we so under value ours that when we look at trading we always look at our own players and trading 2 or three players and throwing in a first or second.

      I just can’t understand how low value our players are viewed on here and how high value all the opposing players are on here. I hear that Eric Cole may be available again. So we originally traded Eric for Ryder and a third round pick. I would like to see who we would give back to get him again.

      I bet some on here would have a lot more going back to Dallas to acquire him and this is where it just doesn’t make sense.

      To you from failing hands we throw the torch, be yours to hold it high.

  45. Harditya says:

    Have to agree with Chris Nilan, Bourque is a waste of space on this roster. He hasn’t done poop in the 3 years he’s been here, the only thing I am looking forward to in the Cammalleri deal is Zach Fucale.

  46. GGtheHab says:

    According to the poll most of us would like to see Jagr as a that NJ is in the WC race they may be reluctant to let him go..something has got to give sooner or later, it would improve team consistency if we got rid of some inconsistent players..just drive away Rene…
    Bournival needs more ice time..
    Bad enough if we lose to the Sens but please dont put me through all the $h!t and abuse that comes with losing to the laffs..this week is huge, if the boys don’t get it together we will find ourselves battling for a WC spot as predicted by many.

    • CJ says:

      We are chasing a ghost. I’d love to have had Jagr 6-7 years ago. Not now. I respect the player, but we need to move forward. The ship has sailed…

      I would unload those tradeble assets and do this rebuild properly. I don’t believe we need to tank, but we need to evaluate every single person who is signed to one of the organization’s professional contracts and assess their value. Otherwise we can expect a continuation of the same old. Thankfully, I do believe in Bergevin and his management team. Call me naive, but I believe he has the organization’s future front and centre. These one and two year contracts will be off the books by the time the team is ready to make a serious push forward.

      Patiently I wait….

  47. slapshot777 says:

    Hi guys anybody interested in tickets to the Washington game on the 25th of January. Selling them for the same I paid for them. I have 4 but will to sell in pairs. They are Optimum tickets so tthey are a little more. They are in the Club Desjardins section. Can go due to work commitments. Every year I go at the same time. I figured this year no different. I guess I shouldn’t have taken it for granted.

    Anyway if anybody interested you can message me.

    To you from failing hands we throw the torch, be yours to hold it high.

  48. habs001 says:

    Only 6 teams have scored fewer goals than the Habs…posters keep saying that it is the system and i hope they are right but to be honest i just dont see a very talented scoring forward lineup…

  49. Harditya says:

    Yaay the comments are back!

  50. HabFab says:

    As regards the question why there have been no call ups… perhaps it also may have to do with the amount of call ups allowed per team. There were a lot of them at the first of the year and perhaps MB wants to be safe for the end of the season. Remember last season we almost ran out going into the play-offs.

  51. Cal says:

    All is well as the gremlins have been shooed out the door.

  52. JUST ME says:

    I thought it was just me !

    Did my reboot wizardy to find out it worked but it was not just me…

  53. Puck Bard says:

    Leafs v Sabres: Don’t look back, something may be gaining on you.

  54. Habfan17 says:

    I read Kaie Strange on TSN, that Byfuglien will probably be traded before the deadline. I wonder if Bergevin is interested! Being that he is a right handed d-man and of course, the fact he would bring much needed size to the second pairing, would you like to see the Habs trade for him? What would you be willing to give up? Gorges, Diaz and LeBlanc? Enough, not enough? Thoughts?


    • DipsyDoodler says:

      Can we have Byfuglien ($5.2M cap hit) as well as PK, Marky and Emelin? Add Gorges and that is a total outlay of roughly $27M.

      Unless of course we play him as a forward like Chicago did.

      Also, if Big Buff is made available before the playoffs he will cost a #1 pick and a very good prospect. A contender will pay that.

      Gorges, Diaz and Leblanc makes no sense for the Jets.

    • Harditya says:

      Diaz is much better defensively than big Buff. I don’t even want to imagine what we would have to give up in a deal to acquire him. Rather see the Habs go after a forward.

  55. Mavid says:

    i see it was not just me..

    Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

  56. Timo says:

    Did HIO hamsters go on strike?

  57. Reflektor says:


  58. Mavid says:

    cannot see comments

    Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

  59. Mavid says:


    Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

  60. habsfan55 says:

    habs fan but will cheer for any team that beats the leafs

  61. DipsyDoodler says:


    I can’t see the comments.

    Is it just me?

  62. DadidolizedDougHarvey says:


  63. Klondike Habs Fan says:


  64. topher5468 says:

    Having trouble seeing comments,

    “It’s not an obsession, It’s a way of life..”

  65. AndyF says:

    What — first?!!
    No way.

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