Welcome, Summiteers!

The Canadiens would have been out to greet you personally, but they’re in Buffalo.

AK46 will try to spark G&G

• Luc Gélinas on Lars Eller’s big chance

Max Pacioretty thinks he’s a Top Six forward. It doesn’t play well in the room, and Arpon Basu thinks Max-Pac made a big mistake

• Yvon Pedneault on the G&G drought

• Shock waves from Patrick Roy dissing Guy Boucher

Jaro shuts out the Sharks and Garon gets another one

And if you’re downtown late this afternoon, our friend Michael Farber of Sports Illustrated and Yvan Cournoyer of the Hall of Fame will be at Indigo book store, Ste. Catherine and McGill College, at 5 p.m., signing copies of The Hockey Book.

272 Comments

  1. mike g says:

    Sooooooo….

    Summit tonight, eh?

    Well, I’ll have you all know that if I’m able to make it, it will be later on in the night. Might even be after the game.

    Don’t you guys dare leave early. If Mike G’s coming to Hurley’s, it ain’t to find himself all alone having been left out to dry. He will be coming there to get crunk and talk some smack with HIO people.

    So see you there, with my Richards jersey!

     

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

     I got AK at under 64.5 pts, with Triple X and Tom Nickle.

  2. Chuck says:

    I say that we should start a “We want Rhino” chant at the game tomorrow night.

     

    Centre Hice: Major blackout hits Montreal

  3. fbkj says:

    unfortunately i cant make it bro… hmmmmmm pretzel

  4. Chuck says:

    Our current goalie has all of those assets, too! (except for that being able to cross the red line bit.)

    Centre Hice: Major blackout hits Montreal

  5. mike g says:

    Hey dude…

    You gonna be at the summit tonight?

    It would be an honour to see who you are, and maybe throw a peanut and/or pretzel at the back of your head…

     

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

     I got AK at under 64.5 pts, with Triple X and Tom Nickle.

  6. fbkj says:

    nah same reason im not going to the game, cant make the summit, too much goin on the next two weeks *sigh*

    going to the tuesday game vs. canucks tho

  7. Hobie Hansen says:

    Ya its too bad things don’t seem to be panning out for O’Byrne. I’m not sure what his contractual status is, don’t feel like looking it up, but maybe he’ll continue to work hard and when we rid ourselves of the troublesome contracts of Hamerlik and especially Spacek, there will be a spot for him as our 5th or 6th defenseman.

  8. punkster says:

    You joining us at Hurley’s after?

  9. HabFarmer says:

    You’re kidding right?  Schultz is not a goon – he’s got the toughness and the edge that the Habs need.  He’s got plenty of upside.  I guess we wouldn’t want that either.

    As for Eller, just give him some time already…… .

     

    A man’s attitude… a man’s attitude goes some ways. The way his life will be. Is that somethin’ you agree with?

  10. smiler2729 says:

    Yeah whatever. This is just another attempt to elevate Halak to his rightful godliness and shove more knives in Price’s back.

    Knickers? I don’t care about Halak ANYMORE – HE’S GONE – HE WANTED OUT – HE GOT HIS WISH.

  11. Mattyleg says:

    Yeah, it’s dumb. Especially how people only even focus on them when they’re doing well. Fatendresse came to camp overweight and out of shape, and he’s been injured for most of the beginning of the season as a result. Anyone looking at that?

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  12. Mattyleg says:

    I wanna see O’Byrne play! Saw him with his playoff beard on a Bell ad last night and it made me nostalgic.

    He worked hard in the off-season, and it’s a shame that he has to be riding the pine.

    I suppose someone has to, but it’d be nice to see him out there, especially now that he has something to really prove.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  13. smiler2729 says:

    He won’t be Jean Beliveau or Guy Lafleur so moronic Hab fans will boo him outta town where he will turn into Mats Sundin with heart on some other team then moronic Hab fans will bitch and whine about how “we” let him go.

    Haven’t you noticed Matt D’Agostini is suddenly a 50 goal scorer and Guillaume Latendresse is Clark Gillies now not mention St. Jaro de Halak, the greatest goalie since Terry Sawchuk.

  14. fbkj says:

    well i have my season tix but a client is going to this game, connection? not so much for other seats…

  15. HabsoluteFan says:

    Halak fell down while taking part in the team’s hardest shot at their skills competition last year.  He has no shot, lacks skating speed because of the bigger equipement he wears and can’t pass the red line at centre ice without getting a penalty.

    Eller has all those assets.  Our current goalie is doing great.  So we won that trade hands down. 

  16. punkster says:

    My one ticket is in section 308, row cc.

    Why, you got a connection?

  17. fbkj says:

    scared? oh noes not t3h scared :(

  18. nick says:

    MTL ‘s problem right now isn’t goaltending, its the inability to put the puck in the net.

  19. Natrous says:

    HALAK WAS AN UNSIGNED RFA AT THE TIME, AND NO ONE KNEW WHAT HE WOULD DEMAND FOR A CONTRACT AFTER THAT PLAYOFF RUN WITH THE HABS.

    Anyone with a drop of hockey knowledge knows that RFAs can be less than easy to sign if they think they deserve more than what they’re being offered. See Kessel, Phil.

  20. sillywalk says:

    Who’s saying anything bad about Price? The discussion is that we got screwed for trading our better (at the time) goaltender, because the grapevine said he would never reach the other guy’s potential. And the goalie whom everyone said was a flash in the pan is still flashing away every time he plays. This does not take anything away from Price this year, so why get your knickers in a twist every time Halak’s name gets mentioned? Thou dost overreactieth too much.

  21. matraque says:

    I’m scared… wonder what will happen with Eller…

    ——

    Canadien en 5!
    Never go Full Retard
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svwGRJA28lY&feature=related

  22. fbkj says:

    out of curiosity, where are the HIO seats?

  23. nick says:

    annnd Ian Schultz isn’t even in the NHL yet.

    You really can’t comment on this trade until they both make it to the NHL and hit their groove.

  24. smiler2729 says:

    Garon… 2nd shutout, 4-0-0

    Bonk, Huet… retired and Swiss cheese.

     

    Redundant and pointless.

  25. Exit716 says:

    I think perhaps Logan Couture would have fit the bill for Montreal, had San Jose been in play. First round pick, on an entry level deal….

  26. smiler2729 says:

    No SHITE. I’ve grown to despise Halak now, kinda like dating Pamela Anderson and always hearing about Tommy Lee…

  27. LA Loyalist says:

    Yeah, Halak we couldn’t have got much, Garon sucks, has Price ever had 2 shut outs in a row (he may yet, I’m just saying)

    Poster is right: want Halak? You have to take BoatAnchor(age)nOmez(tm) or no deal. Can you imagine what we could do with that cap space?

    It’s one thing to take a chance on Price over Halak, looks like it’s going to work out, it’s another to not get more for Halak.

    GMs LOVE to trade for potential – he keeps them from being accountable right now and defers judgement day.

    The good news is that in Montreal judgement day comes sooner than in Toronto – it’s a calendar/time zone thing.

    Have a great summit. Wear your Garon Habs jersey!

     

  28. punkster says:

    To all attending the Summit:

    Please bear in mind that HI/O related activities are not to be considered fun. They are strictly for bitching, whining and complaining about our favourite team.

     

    OK, seriously now, does anyone have an extra ticket for the game Saturday, preferably in the HI/O sections? If you do pleasde contact me through the site.

     

  29. smiler2729 says:

    When it comes to Halak, it isn’t discussion or debate, just whining and name calling. LET’S MOVE ON.

  30. sillywalk says:

    The only person who takes the mention of Halak personally is you. Then you somehow make the mention out to be an attack on Price, who wasn’t even mentioned.

    And Halak actually wanted to play, not to be out. Even if you keep repeating otherwise, it doesn’t make it true. “Play me or trade me” does NOT mean, “I really mean you all suck so just trade me”. It means, well, play him.

    As you said, he’s gone. So stop freaking out whenever his name is mentioned. Price is a big boy, he doesn’t need you to protect his delicate ears from the H-word.

  31. fuhgawz says:

    good for Jaro happy for him he has a hell of a team infront of him… but reading about how he is doing is as relevant as how Saku, Higgy, Kovy ect. are doing he is not with the team anymore so how about we stop writing or posting stats/articles about him Habsinsideout Staff. Focus on the team your SUPPOSED to be covering.

    Thanks

  32. Habsrule1 says:

    I wanna play!

    Coke or Pepsi?

    Go Habs Go!! “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

  33. smiler2729 says:

    A 24 team league would be so much better, remember the ’80s? Now THAT was entertaining hockey. My choices for contraction would be the obvious Phoenix, Atlanta, Nashville, Florida but Carolina and Anaheim need to go too.

    Yes, Anaheim, one team in Los Angeles is enough and the Ducks basically are New Jersey West, a small pocket of faithful fans and nothing but a small local appeal.

    Then I’d move the Devils and Lightning to Winnipeg and Quebec City.

    Nice dream. It’ll never happen…

  34. matraque says:

    He was not out of line… He wants to get better… Hamilton will make him better.

    ——

    Canadien en 5!
    Never go Full Retard
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svwGRJA28lY&feature=related

  35. matraque says:

    Halak… 3rd shutout.

    Eller… 1pt and -3

    ——

    Canadien en 5!
    Never go Full Retard
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svwGRJA28lY&feature=related

  36. punkster says:

    Margarine or butter?

  37. punkster says:

    However people will use it as “proof positive” that JM doesn’t know how to coach young players. So in that regard the story is bang on and pretty well par for the course of what goes on in this city when it comes to the Habs. (And yes, Basu’s overly sensationalized interpretation “sapped of all his confidence” and left a “shell of player” is in keeping with that tradition…way to crank up the retoric Basu)

  38. Mattyleg says:

    Really looking forward to tonight! Should be a good ‘un at the Hurl.

    Kinda tired of the trolls coming out whenever H-l-k does well. Ignore them, they’ll go away when they realize that nobody cares what they think.

    I love the idea of contracting the league, as in, getting rid of some franchises altogether. Good plan!

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  39. Habsrule1 says:

    You have no idea what they could have gotten. All I’m saying is that I kinda doubt the Habs didn’t want more, but they took what they felt was the best offer. Also, remember that what they got was cap-friendly with huge potential for the future.

    you have to look at everything, not just what you think should have happened.

    Go Habs Go!! “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

  40. Everlasting1 says:

    lmao

     

    “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

     Don’t pollute the water.

  41. Mark C says:

    Here’s a good read on the recent history of goalie trades.

    http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2010/11/1/1779550/goaltender-trade-value

  42. adam76 says:

    Ya – stop bring up hockey discusions / debates.  Lets just all agree that Youpee is the best mascot in the history of sports.

  43. lenny says:

    Im just saying that Halaks’ value was much higher then what we got in return. Eller will be good, but a staight up trade seems very lopsided…at the very least we should have gotten a pick and be able to lump Halak with an overpaid player (Spacek, Hammer, Gomez) to shed some salary.

  44. Mark C says:

    He’s wrong, Martin gave Max-Pac more ice time than Carbo did. This is the NHL, if you coach a competitive team you must limit rookie mistakes, especial ones that are often repeated. Montreal has made the last two playoffs by a combined point and tie breaker. Teams in this situation cannot afford to play players like O’Byrne, who makes the same mistakes every other game. I don’t like MAB, but he had 12 goals and 30 more points than O’Byrne did last year, he can make mistakes because he adds offensive.

  45. Chuck says:

    Have fun in Montreal tonight, everyone! I’m looking forward to being at the game in Buffalo, then hitting the road early to meet up with you tomorrow!

    Safe travels, and Go Habs Go!

    Centre Hice: Major blackout hits Montreal

  46. Exit716 says:

    It’s like Gauthier decided to trade Halak and then asked Gainey for a contact, Gainey gave him Doug Armstrong’s number and that was that. Sort of like hawking your wedding ring at the pawn shop because you’re in a rush and don’t have any options.

  47. Matthew says:

    Basu refers to the “city’s No.1 English sports radio station” in reference to Pacioretty’s comments. Talk about sensationalizing the situation… The Team 990 is the only English sports station and has ratings that are almost always last or 2nd to last in the anglo market.

    By his own admission Pacioretty felt his confidence was “down a bit and got even worse” last season and is happy to be gaining it back now. Basu’s interpretation has Max basically saying that he was “sapped of all his confidence” and left a “shell of player”.

    This whole thing is being totally blown out of proportion and it’s because of this kind of sensationalistic nonsensical reporting. It really is no wonder that a lot of free agents don’t want to play here.

    That being said, Go Habs Go! Should be a four point weekend

  48. Castor says:

    I know he’s trying AK tonight but remember how great Gio, Gomez and Cammy were last year? Everyone was saying we only had that one line because AK wasn’t producing. Now that he is do you guys think JM should try

    Cammy-Gomer-Gio

    AK-Pleky-Eller/Pouliot?

    what do you guys think?

  49. Castor says:

    SERIOUSLY MAN. So sick of this.

  50. notbigbird says:

    Voldemort?

  51. smiler2729 says:

    Chlamydia or gonorrhea?

  52. adam76 says:

    I agree 100%.  To get an AHLer and a goon was foolish.  We could have gotten more.

     

  53. smiler2729 says:

    Beatles or Stones?

    Apples or oranges?

    Big Mac or Whopper?

    Will people QUIT bringing this CRAP up??? What the hell has Price done this year to STILL warrant this?? Halak wanted a trade (twice he asked), the salary cap situation was tight AND VOILA – he’s in St. Louis, Price didn’t trade him.

    I prefer the Stones by the way.

  54. avatar_58 says:

    Frankly I agree with him though. Martin always does this – he benches the young guns for mistakes yet baffles us all by allow others – MAB comes to mind – to make as many as they like and see top minutes.

    Obyrne flips it over the glass? NO MORE ICE TIME. MAB gives it away and leads to a goal? Oh here’s a shift right after. Oops another goal, quick put him out again!

  55. lenny says:

    Dagostini or Gomez

  56. habsguy says:

    Oh ya, I’m sure PG was offered Backes and Oshie but said no,  we don’t want that much…just give us Eller and we’ll be happy!!!!…

  57. lenny says:

    Halak or Price?

  58. smiler2729 says:

    He-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named – CLASSIC!! LOL!!!

  59. smiler2729 says:

    Why all the whining about what the Habs got in return for St.Jaro? If they had gotten Backes, Perron Boyes or Oshie, the whine would still be there. The fact that Halak wanted to be traded hasn’t sunk into any of the whiners, has it? Also, there’s also the little matter of the salary cap… but it’s more fun to whine and cry about Gauthier and Halak.

    TSN just reported Eller being on the G&G line…

  60. Harani says:

    Here is a great article by Arpon Basu outlining the points why what Max Pacioretty did was out of line.

    “It must be love!”

  61. dh says:

    I wonder where everyone gets this information that we got the most for Halak that we could? 

    Price is doing great and, again this year, we don’t seem to be having problems in nets but I think that they could have reached a better deal for one of the goalies if they’d have waited a bit.

  62. Habfan29 says:

    agree 100%

  63. sillywalk says:

    And Price was proven? He hasn’t yet had a total of a very good season, but apparently Halak would have to have 10 before anyone would give him the benefit of the doubt concerning his ability. He may yet flop, but could he really flop harder than Price did for 2 years running?

  64. Mark C says:

    Or it’s a sign of a young player having the self-realization that he left school too early, and got off the proper development tract due to Montreal’s needs. I think a lot of people are reading way too much into Max-Pac’s comments, let’s apply Occam’s razor – maybe Max-Pac feels he needs the development of a full year in the AHL to be able to realize his full potential as an NHL player. Let’s not forget, he turns 22 later this month.   

  65. avatar_58 says:

    Thomas is also near perfect and I’ll be DAMNED if I admit the guy’s a good goalie. He’s just having a good start.

  66. Habsrule1 says:

    A few have seemed a bit too excited about Halak’s start. Anyone notice that Garon has to so’s in a row?

    I think it would have been nice to get more, but the fact is, Halak wasn’t proven yet. after a total of 1 very good season, we could not get a lot more than we did for him. I’m pretty sure Gauthier didn’t take the first offer on the table, as many of you seem to think he did.

    As far as G&G, i like the idea of putting AK46 with them. the way he’s been playing may really spark them….and talk about an opportunity for Eller! I really hope he runs with it!

    2for2 this weekend…WE CAN DO EET!

    Go Habs Go!! “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

  67. Maksimir says:

    Just great – two former Habs goalies get shut outs last night… Garon and He-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named

  68. The Cat says:

    I dont see it as a young player letting his emotions get the best of him, I see it as a player who sees that by looking at the contracts in place in the top 6 that hes not going to get a chance to earn a spot, and that instead of being called up theyre putting Eller (a guy with less NHL experience), so hence he wants to be traded.

     

    [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

  69. Psycho29 says:

    Toronto (AP) – Toronto Police Department reports finding a man’s body in a local river just west of the Don Valley Parkway. The dead man’s name will not be released until his family has been notified.
     
    The victim apparently drowned due to excessive beer consumption. He was wearing black fishnet stockings, a red garter belt, high heeled red shoes and a Leafs hockey jersey. 

      
    The police removed the Leafs hockey jersey— to spare his family any unnecessary embarrassment.

    See you guys at the summit on Saturday!

     

  70. CP31 says:

    I just picked the Habs over the Sabres tonight in my elimination pool. It’ll be that much more interesting when I’m watching them LIVE tonight from the HSBC, especially with the shake up in the lines.

    The Habs have lost the last 2 times I’ve been there, so I’m hoping tonight is the night the pull off a win!!

    FEARLESS PREDICTION: Habs win 4-2; GIO gets 2 tonight, Cammy gets 1 and CP has a good road game!

    GO HABS GO!!!

     

    FROM SAKU TO GIO, SAME STATURE AND JUST AS MUCH HEART!! GREAT DECISION!!

  71. avatar_58 says:

    I started a new season and those two are my best scorers :o

  72. avatar_58 says:

    All this fuss over Roy saying he doesn’t like trap-like hockey. What’s the problem? I don’t like it either – do you enjoy Buffalo and New Jersey games? I sure as hell don’t.

    Boucher isn’t some evil super villain we can’t blast. The man has yet to win anything worthwhile and until he does he’s fair game.

  73. Hobie Hansen says:

    A tough decision had to be made and I don’t mind Gauthier deciding to keep the younger Price over Halak. However, receiving Eller in return instead of a Backes, Perron, Boyes or Oshie seems like a ripoff to me? Isn’t a number one goaltender worth a proven front-line player? I understand we also received Schultz, who might turn out to be a solid third line contributor with some leadership quality, but Gauthier definitely fell short.

    I am happy to see Martin is following my advice tonight and grouping the six players together (including Eller and Kostitsyn) that I believe should have made up the top two lines to start the season. We’ll see what Eller can do playing with Plekanec and Cammalleri! The last thing the coach has to do is put that third line of Moen-Halpern-Lapierre together and I’ll be a happy camper. I believe a 3rd line that like that could be among the best in the league and as well score a number of goals. Throw some 4th line out there for a couple minutes a period with Boyd, Pouliot, Darche or Pyatt on it to rest the other lines and all will be good.

     

    Oh and a quick comment on Pacioretty, even though I’ve been keeping my fingers crossed and hoping he’d click as a top six power forward, you have to accept Martin’s judgment. I doubt the Canadiens will read too much into his comments and let it affect his progress as a Hab. I’m sure they’ll look at the situation as a young player letting his emotions get the best of him.  

  74. Johnny_D says:

    Don’t worry, my NHL2011 G&G were also in a slump, they got out of it ;)

  75. Danno says:

    All the best and safe travel to all the Summiteers!

    I’m sure you will enjoy a memorable weekend. Cheers!

     

    “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

  76. Danno says:

    It means you can start calling him Max Never Ready.

     

     

    “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

  77. Matt_in_TO says:

    So I guess we should all be saying buh-bye to MaxPac.  It was dumb to say it once, don’t even know what to call saying it twice.  Thank God Walsh isn’t his agent.

     

    - In Price We Trust

  78. fbkj says:

    yes i <3 my typos, but i meant who was he referring to in regards to management developing players poorly?

  79. Natrous says:

    For sure – being politically correct is overrated. People should just say what comes to mind and not fear the consequences, especially when they infringe on the rights of others. We should all just say what we think regardless of social norms.

    Reading between the lines, there are certain norms in professional sports that you don’t go against, and speaking out against management (coaching included) is one of these norms. Usually sports atheletes are smarter than this, and if not they are typically more talented the Max, so he doesn’t really have much to stand on here.

  80. SLONCOLD says:

    i’m pretty sure he is focused on making the NHL; paycheque is much larger up with the big club. my logic and point is to to look at his numbers in the AHL. he seems to be playing well; speaking his mind is his choice and i doubt that it’s taking away from what he is doing in the AHL.

     

  81. JD_ says:

    Flashy Smileypants.

    Sounds a whole hell of a lot cooler than Pernell Karl.

    And beats my Poindexter Bentley, hands down.

  82. Everlasting1 says:

    Typical establishment response. What exactly did Ellar do to earn a top 6 role? Where did it get Halak? Price? 7 yrs into the Gainey era of neverending revolving door of roster changes and game-by-game line shuffling to no end. I’ve gotten off this ride..

     

    “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

    Don’t pollute the water.

  83. JD_ says:

    I know what you meant, SC. I just don’t care to have bizarre and leadin’ questions regardin’ what I think put on the table in front of me.

    Absolutely, we both agree on what the boy wants. Speakin’ his mind was, however, the result of someone takin’ advantage of his naivete. It wasn’t a conscious act of bravery. It was a rookie mistake. Big diff.

    As it is with life, sayin’ the wrong thing at the wrong time does take away from the rest of it. If you don’t believe me, go up to your boss and tell him or her what you really think about them.

    And, if you do, I’ll have to invoke my advice disclaimer.

  84. sidhu says:

    D’Ags has 5 goals for the Blues.  Who would have thunk it!

  85. Everlasting1 says:

    Alienating his co-workers?? Whoa Nelly..he’s just a 21 yr old thinking outside his cubicle. But you’re right, that’s dangerous thinking in the Barnum and Bailey’s Circus that is the Mtl media.

     

    “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

    Don’t pollute the water.

  86. JD_ says:

    I’m part of the establishment.

    Awesome.

    Is it too late to vote for Nixon?

  87. Natrous says:

    Sweet – one more things for Hab fans/trolls to rag about!

    “What did we get back for him, Aaron Palusaj [sic]?”

  88. sidhu says:

    I don’t blame Max Power at all for saying what he said — it’s refreshing to know he’s honest and that he appreciates the opportunities to develop in the A. 

    One of our issues over the years has been development of our younger players, I hope some changes are made rather than the younger guys simply get criticized for expressing frustration at how they are being treated.

     

  89. sidhu says:

    Love the icon – Kenny F. Powers

  90. Everlasting1 says:

    By all means..vote for denial. It works in Wall Street.

     

    “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

    Don’t pollute the water.

  91. JD_ says:

    Been great hangin’ with you, dude.

  92. The McJuice says:

    Social norms are not always that great…

    Burn the bandwagon.

  93. Everlasting1 says:

    Though diabolically opposed. Cheers.

     

    “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

    Don’t pollute the water.

  94. Chorske says:

    I’m having drinks with some of the ladies from work tonight. So I will also only be around tomorrow.

  95. Hagar says:

    No Max-Pac. You’d be pumped to kick ass for JM on the bottom 6, showing him in the process why you deserve a top 6 spot. Does he think he’s being treated unfairly? There are talented short players that succeed in the NHL. You can’t have too many on the same team though. Max-Pac should go up to David Desharnais and tell him all about fair. Geez, the drama never ends for the Montreal Canadiens.

  96. Chorske says:

    CLassic. So many classic linesin one film. Lower back tatoo… might as well be a bullseye.

  97. mbplekfan says:

    JM is well known around here for being intolerant of rookies and their growing pains. We’ve all said he staples a player to the bench after a mistake and if that player is a rookie likely for an extended period.

    OB and MaxPac are his most current victims. Perhaps a year in Hamilton will help Patch, maybe JM will soften…Not likely. MaxPac is likely trade bait now.

  98. Mark C says:

    How was Max-Pac stapled to the bench, yet still able to average almost 13 minutes of ice per game under Martin?

  99. rocketsglare says:

    Pacioretty may not be the pure goal scorer the Habs were hoping he become but his size, speed, and

    jam would be instrumental in the future to this team. So relegating him indefinitely in Hamilton IMO is

    just short sighted. Now, if the Habs could definitely upgrade their roster by trading Pacioretty then why

    not consider such a possibility. But, until then let’s hold on to him because believe it or not , he is a va-

    luable asset one way or another for this team.

     

    Go Habs Go!

     

  100. WarHero says:


    Elliotte Friedman

     

    No HNIC for Miller RT @ Sabres goalie Ryan Miller is out this weekend. – via Twitter

    ——
    Follow Anthony on: Twitter & Ottawa 67s Fan hub & HockeyBuzz

  101. SmartDog says:

    As much as I appreciate Max’s speaking out about what he needs for his development, etc. – and I think he’s right – you have to say he’s showing immaturity there. 

    And then comes the irony.  Max made a mistake – a mistake of youth and inexperience (with the media this time).  So the situation is now going to test the maturity, not of Max but of Martin and Gautheir. If Max is sent packing for the next struggling 21-year-old offered like Dags was, it will show that he’s right and that this team doesn’t tolerate mistakes from its youth.  And we’ll lose a strong prospect (again). 

    So what Max did might actually be quite smart – if very ballsy.  If they toss him, this isn’t the kind of place he wants to be.  And yes, there is surely a team out there (hello Tampa and St. Louis) who’s very interested in Gautheir’s throw-aways, thank you very much.

     

    ———
    Listen to the SmartDog. He knows his poop!

  102. mike g says:

    I’m very happy in my pants….

     

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

     I got AK at under 64.5 pts, with Triple X and Tom Nickle.

  103. lenny says:

    I think the time is right to move AK46

    He’s playing for a new contract, next year the big Belarusian will be nowhere to be found. Trade him when his value is high and for gods sake if there is a stupid enought GM out there to take him, then please unload some additional salary (Gomez, Hammer, Spacek, etc…)

  104. Harani says:

    I think there is a way he could have approached this situation. Unless you’re name is Taylor Hall or Steven Stamkos, I don’t any rookie has a bona-fide spot on the top 6, no matter if he was drafted in the first round or the sixth round.

    The guys who are all getting chances is because they are teams are in a re-building mode (see Islanders, Thrashers). And it’s been proven that the league is decreasing in the amount of goals being scored as well. So any coach wouldn’t want to risk giving up a goal because of a mistake. Hence, the need to work players into the bottom 6 and gradually work their way up. 

    And I think that’s the simple reason as to why JM prefers Moen and Darche, because they are not subject to defensive liability, albeit they are not top 6, at least we won’t be scored on. Unless you have an innate ability (a la PK Subban), it’s tough in the league today to be confident in rookies. 

    And MaxPac’s assesement can be also coutnered with the example of PK who spent a whole year in Hamilton, came back with confidence and does make mistakes but is still being trusted by JM. By coming out like this on the radio, I feel that he’s insulting the guys who are playing bottom 6 in the league. They are all important to the team and a big part of winning and play in the NHL. Bob Gainey is one 3rd liner that comes to mind who had an amazing career. 

    I’m intrigued in seeing how JM manages Lars Eller today. 

    “It must be love!” 

  105. mike g says:

    Joe Thornton….

    Just because you suck in the playoffs, doesn’t mean you have to blindside David Perron.

    Anyone else hope he gets 5 games for the hit?

    Not because I dislike Joe, but these hits are hapenning every single day. The league can’t keep handing out 1-3 game suspensions, just because those players don’t have a history of being suspended. If guys are being suspended for 3 games, and these hits are still going on every night, it’s because 3 games isn’t severe enough.

    Bump up the minimum suspension to 5 games, and then increase it again if it continues at this pace.

    Joe’s a veteran that should know much better….

     

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

    I got AK at under 64.5 pts, with Triple X and Tom Nickle.

  106. WarHero says:

    Thought you might like that Mike :)

    ——
    Follow Anthony on: Twitter & Ottawa 67s Fan hub & HockeyBuzz

  107. Mr.Hazard says:

    Where’s the thread for today’s game?? Boone? Stubbs?

  108. VintageFan says:

    Max is either very gutsy or very naive.  It was a child who spoke out about the “Emperor’s new clothes” !

  109. Mr.Hazard says:

    Very good point. But like you said, I don’t think many GM’s would offer much. His inconsistency is documented!

  110. Harani says:

    Renaud Lavoie and Francois Gagnon tweet that Tomas Plekanec just left HSBC arena for the hotel and is not at the Habs morning skate.

    If he’s injured, it could be bad! 

    It must be love!”

  111. Chuck says:

    They’re too busy battening down the hatches in advance of the arrival of the Summiteers.  :)

    Centre Hice: Major blackout hits Montreal

  112. punkster says:

    Trade him. Fast. If he’s a top 6 candidate then we should be able to get a top 6 back for him right now, right? So who do we get for him? ‘Cause that’s the issue here, isn’t it? He’s a top 6 who hasn’t been given a chance and has now crapped the bed. He’ll never play here so get him on the block now and get a top 6 in return. Who?

  113. Chuck says:

    It’s nothing to worry about. I’m meeting Pleks at the Anchor Bar for wings in about an hour.

    Centre Hice: Major blackout hits Montreal

  114. Matthew says:

    I seem to recall Chris Higgins telling us he would become a 40 goal scorer in an article written by Dave Stubbs a few years back. Point being that just because he said he would become a 40 goal scorer obviously doesn’t mean he became one, much in the same way that Pacioretty may not become a top six forward even though he would like to. Max thinks playing on one of the top two lines is best for his development and I think that if my boss just went ahead and doubled my salary I would become a top level employee and the profits would roll in… Somehow I don’t think the boss sees it that way.  

    I agree with punkster, he should have to earn his spot.

  115. Harani says:

    UPDATE: He’s sick! WHAT!?!? Even with the turtleneck?

    “It must be love!”

  116. smiler2729 says:

    Ryan Miller’s out for tonight and tomorrow in Toronto. Aliteration – Let’s Light up Lalime – love it a lot.

  117. Mats Naslund says:

    PLease read the article. He’s not saying he should have a top 6 spot. He said that if its not available in the NHL he’d rather play in the AHL and develop his game as a top 6 forward. 

     

    If we’re going to roast ANOTHER young player in the media – could we at least get the quotes right. This time its in English. There is no excuse.

  118. ebk says:

    Well, if Price stumbles, we can use Max and Ryan White and get a front-line goaltender. So maybe the Habs should hold on to him for a bit.

  119. JF says:

    According to RDS, Plekanec has the flu and is “un cas douteux” for tonight.

  120. mike g says:

    Oyoyoye….

     

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

    I got AK at under 64.5 pts, with Triple X and Tom Nickle.

  121. mike g says:

    Great….

    Now O’Byrne is gonna play 2nd line center.

     

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

     I got AK at under 64.5 pts, with Triple X and Tom Nickle.

  122. Chuck says:

    Great. Another French Canadian backup. I can’t wait.

    Centre Hice: Major blackout hits Montreal

  123. 123456 says:

    while i do not want to see AK46 moved i do like your thinking regarding “trade him while his value is high” – that was done recently and people did not understasnd it.

  124. Matthew says:

    Direct quote from Pacioretty

    I just don’t see the need, for my development, to play the bottom two lines in the NHL because ultimately I feel I’m going be a top-6 forward,”

    Does this not imply that he would like to be a top six forward? Please read my post, I never said that Max said he should be a top six player, I said he would like to be.

    Since I am not a part of the media I don’t believe the above comment was a“roast ANOTHER young player in the media”

     

  125. TripleX says:

    And Halak told management he was a legitimate No. 1.  What is your point?  For every player that failed I can bring one up that succeeded.  The point is coaches and management are paid huge dollars to properly assess the talent in their systems and use them to maximum affect.  To date Montreal has not been very good at this important skill.

     

    ‘Cogito ergo doleo’

  126. Chuck says:

    Maybe he’ll be the big body presence we need in front of their goalie.  ;)

    Centre Hice: Major blackout hits Montreal

  127. bwoar says:

    With Pleks out I imagine more than a few people are gonna be annoyed with don’t have Halak to play 1st line centre tonight!  What a maroon that Gauthier is !

  128. fbkj says:

    who are you referring to?

  129. mike g says:

    Nah…

    He’s big, but that’s it.

     

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

     I got AK at under 64.5 pts, with Triple X and Tom Nickle.

  130. TripleX says:

    Bald Auld has a better chance dude, he is a veteran.  xP

     

    ‘Cogito ergo doleo’

  131. Chorske says:

    I think Max is right. He isn’t saying anything the rest of us haven’t at some point or other. We’ve got a huge contract sinks in Gomez, Hammer, Spacek etc, which requires us to either make extensive use of young players developed from within- or recycle undervalued journeymen year after year. Martin clearly prefers the latter- and he has had some success with that approach- but it isn’t healthy for an organization to constantly create roadblocks to the progress of their young players.

    Max is right: c’est en forgeant que l’on devient forgeron.

  132. SLONCOLD says:

    totally agree!!!! I think there should be minimum suspensions associated with these acts. i’ve been called a baby before for not liking this type of hitting but i still stand by a cleaner game and think he should get atleast 3. i think the league is going to throw the book at him.

  133. Chorske says:

    That said, saying it out loud isn’t exactly smart. WHAT he says is correct. It’s just not smart to say it out loud.

  134. TripleX says:

    What?

     

    ‘Cogito ergo doleo’

  135. Chorske says:

    Redirecting?

  136. AndyF says:

    I think he’s young and we should cut him a break.   The kid’s been training hard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnhEzHdmJLg) and is obviously not drinking it up at the bars.   His shape alone is not the whole story, but it is telling of a motivated young player.

     

    AndyF

    http://andyfroncioni.com

  137. Chorske says:

    I think he meant, to whom are you referring?

    But yeah, I’m still like, what???

  138. 123456 says:

    is pleks really out or a game tiem decision? any idea if the move of AK46 to play with G&G was made easier bc there was a chance of pleks being out?

     

  139. mike g says:

    I’m not too sure they’ll throw the book…

    He’s apparently “one of the nicest guys in the league”. And we’ve seen how lenient they are with the idiots in this league, so something tells me he gets 2-3 games.

    Joke, but that’s the NHL. And that’s why these hits won’t stop.

     

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

     I got AK at under 64.5 pts, with Triple X and Tom Nickle.

  140. bwoar says:

    JM has handled Eller completely correctly, and PK Subban for that matter.  To date those are the only halfway decent propects he’s had to work with.  Actually I’m pretty sure he did the right thing for Jaro Halak too.

    The pitchforkers who always call out the coach are gonna keep doing it no matter who it is.  As long as we keep drafting mostly 3rd-rate talent the coaches will continue to get the blame for their lack of development.  But the real problem is a string of 1st rounders who just plain suck. 

  141. christophor says:

    If Pleky’s out, I’d love to see these lines:

     

    Kost – Gom – Gio

    Cammy – Eller – Poulio

    Boyd – Halpern – Lappy

    Moen – Pyatt – Darche

     

    Halpern centering that second line might not be such a bad idea either.

  142. Mats Naslund says:

    Yeah. He doesn’t feel the need to play 10 minutes a game in the bottom 6 at the NHL when he can play 15-20 in the top 6 at the AHL. You implied that he simply wanted to be handed top 6 time at the NHL level. His priority is for his own development – and yet we’re all acting like he’s killed Jacques Martin’s cat.

  143. punkster says:

    First, show us your Habs lists. Second, show us the lists from all other teams.

    You make an assumption that Montreal is worse than other teams in this regard so please provide us with the data you use to support it. If not then I can say, no you’re wrong. Montreal is very good at properly assessing talent and using them to maximum effect.

  144. Slovak says:

    Watch this game:

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=542623

    For tonight,

    Price should improve his positioning – seems out of position very often and timing – making first move is not very good…

    Offence – well – HABS need at least 2 decent forwards able to play fast and smart hockey with Pleks and Cammy so that HABS have 2 lines going and producing.

    Defence – give Markov and Spacek time, they will be good.

  145. JD_ says:

    M-Pac is not just pissin’ in the Corn Flakes® of the guy who cuts his cheques, he’s also alienatin’ his co-workers. And that latter consideration is the one he should have kept in mind before he opened his gapin’ maw.

    MaxPac is not Romeo Dallaire and the Habs org is not Rwanda.

    Havin’ said that, the reason this won’t really blow up in the kid’s face is that PG and JM have been around the block more than a few times. They know Max-P was easy fodder for a couple of media pros who know a wide-eyed doe when they see one. In all likelihood, the kid’ll be quietly taken out to the woodshed for a brief “chat” and life will go on. Business as usual.

    Of course, if one imagines the whole thing is some nefarious, machiavellian plot by MP to trigger a trade, you might consider what prospective employers might think about some still-unproven, prospective NHLer who thinks it’s just cricket ‘n’ all to publicly embarrass an NHL franchise like the Montreal Canadiens in order to effect a transaction.

    Nah. Can’t give him credit for that.

    The only thing I wish for Max-P is that he refocuses his energy on the job at hand, that bein’ earnin’ a spot with the big club.

    This ain’t the colonel’s secret recipe.

  146. HabsoluteFan says:

    I like those but this morning, Martin had Moen-Eller-Cammalleri practicing together.

  147. darcy1 says:

    He’s still young, he’s going to make mistakes. as long as PG doesn’t trade him because of the comments, that’s cool. hopefully this is a PR lesson for him.

  148. HabsoluteFan says:

    But I wouldnt see too much into this, Pleks should be in the line-up tonight.

  149. Chorske says:

    Max needs to shut up and sing.

    But he is right.

  150. punkster says:

    Whew…sanity reigns!

  151. JD_ says:

    Right and $1.50 gets me a cup of coffee, C.

    There’s a ton of players in the AHL who are right. Difference is, they get it.

    Now you owe me a beer. Summit rules. Sorry, out of my hands.

    J

  152. The McJuice says:

    You know what? I completely agree with Patches. I don’t think people should be crucified for being honest. Sure he’s doing himself no good, hes not an idiot, he must know that. It must take pretty big balls to do what he did, how about the media tries to defend him instead?

    Burn the bandwagon.

  153. christophor says:

    Hopefully.

    I don’t like the Moen solution for all our problems.

    Seems we still have those problems, and so it’s not a solution at all.

  154. darcy1 says:

    agreed that JM has handled Subban & Eller correctly – but what about Benny, Lapierre, Moen, Darche (include SK74 & Latendresse that were sent packing if you’d like) getting  moved up and down over the last year?

  155. Chorske says:

    I disagree. I can’t understand why O’Byrne is in the doghouse, for instance. Flashy smileypants Subban cost us a game earlier on this season, without any apparent repercussions on his ice time or coach confidence. O’Byrne plays a bunch of unremarkably solid minutes, throws a ton of hits– and hasn’t played since.

    I don’t think there is anything wrong with our prospects, except for the fact that they must live in absolute terror of making mistakes.

  156. Chorske says:

    Well I was gonna buy you one anyway. So THERE.

    But not one of the Bell Centre ones. I don’t shit money.

  157. TripleX says:

    You can make an assumption that Montreal is very good without accompanying factual information to back it up but I can’t?  Oh I see, only certain people with the CORRECT assumptions are allowed to post on HIO.

     

    ‘Cogito ergo doleo’

  158. SLONCOLD says:

    the question is does he have a place on the habs roster this year or next?

    i love your last line on how he has to refocus on making teh big club. Do you think a 5 minute interview about his future means he’s not working hard in hamilton? i suppose the 12 points in 10 games means very little to you.

  159. Natrous says:

    Shut up and sing? Reminds me of the line ‘You shut your mouth when you’re talking to me!’

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n46CtDmKOg

  160. mike g says:

    Hey…

    Are you guys staying late tonight, or you guys leaving right after the game?

    I’d like to pass by, but it will most likely be after we win.

    Let me know….

     

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

    I got AK at under 64.5 pts, with Triple X and Tom Nickle.

  161. punkster says:

    12 points in 10 games against boys. How many against men?

  162. WarHero says:

    Amen :)

    ——
    Follow Anthony on: Twitter & Ottawa 67s Fan hub & HockeyBuzz

  163. punkster says:

    Oh for heaven’s sake TX, READ! If you’re going to lay down your opinions as facts then I get to play mine. Now, IF and I stress this, IF, you can back up your opinion with your lists of players who have made it and those who haven’t from all the teams and IF that proves you right then MAYBE I’ll adjust my comment, correct or not.

  164. JD_ says:

    Although your logic escapes me and, given we’ve never met nor talked to each other, is basically just founded on suppositions, which isn’t a healthy way to approach a discussion, I’ll share this: It doesn’t even take 30 seconds of media time to potentially blow a hole through all of one’s hard work.

    At the full extreme, Sean Avery would concur.

    Yeah, the kid should keep his head down and focus his energy on earnin’ an NHL job. Sounds like solid advice to me.

  165. SLONCOLD says:

    really? than why all this talk about eller being a top 6? what has he done against the “men” in the nhl this year? yet all i hear is he is ready for first line action.

  166. JD_ says:

    I’m only headin’ out tomorrow. Watchin’ the game with the kids tonight.

  167. JasonM says:

    Meh, Pacs isn’t saying anything that any rational Habs fan didn’t already know though I don’t understand the logic of biting the hand that feeds you I respect his balls for standing his ground. “I don’t want to waste my time being a depth player and get benched every 2nd game, I want to develop my game here” makes absolute sense.

    There’s got to be a reason why the young players who left this organisation that last year or two ago are lighting it up elsewhere.

  168. JohnnyBEast says:

    Wheeew, no Miller tonight! Eller will pop his first of the year

  169. Habfan29 says:

    were done with Lalime in net, those French Canadian goalies just seem to play lights out against the Habs.

  170. The Cat says:

    MaxPac is right in a way. It does seem like JM is just looking for any reason to relegate the youth to the bench. Too many young players have complained now, theres got to be something to it.

     

    [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

  171. Habfan29 says:

    I agree too many veterans screw up on a regular basis (Spacek) and never miss a shift, yet O’byrne makes one mistake and he is benched. I believe that JM is hard on young players and never gives them a chance, if he did Ryan White would be up on the club and O’Bryne would be playing over Spacek.

  172. Mark C says:

    This is bull. Martin gave Max-Pac an average of 12:43 minutes per game over 52 games last year. Is it Martin’s fault that Max-Pac turned those minutes into 3 goals and 14 points? Max-Pac simply wasn’t NHL-ready, and he still likely isn’t.

  173. Everlasting1 says:

    That move would undermine the integrity, conviction, and credibility of Habs management. They’ve made their bed, now they gotta lie in it. They should be held accountable if the team falters due to their decisions. No mulligans on big contract signings, and no scapegoating.

     

    “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

    Don’t pollute the water.

  174. The Cat says:

    I dont think Calgary would do it, they do need a Gomez type though to play with Iginla, so maybe theres other players in Calgary the habs could get instead.

     

    [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

  175. Clay4bc says:

    Nothing to discuss, really – we would have to make that trade in a second. Iginla is 10 times the player that Gomez was in his best season. Iggy leads by example, fights, doesn’t quit, plays great defensively, and SCORES consistently, as well as getting assists.

    And Gomez…is Gomez.

    If Calgary is dumb enough to go for that, then great!

    __________________________

    Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.

    – Bertrand Russell

  176. Hobie Hansen says:

    Calgary would never do that, we’re stuck with the Gomez contract…

  177. LizardKing1967 says:

    How’s this. Sportsnet says that Iginla wants and will get out of Calgary, as it’s “time for a big change”. How about we swap Gomez for Iginla straight up? He’s three years older than Gomer, but he’s still got game. And their salaries basically offset. Iginla has 21M over the next three years including this year, and Gomer has 25M over the next 4 years including this year.

    Discuss

     

     

    Jim-out. I BELIEVE!

  178. smiler2729 says:

    Calgary’s dumb enough to take Toronto’s garbage, anything can happen… but I would want Iggy to play with G&G.

  179. JF says:

    Why do you say Martin’s handling of personnel is nineteenth-century?  He demonstrated little confidence in certain players – Latendresse (who badmouthed the team after leaving), Sergei Kostitsyn (who certainly did not have the best attitude), and Ryan O’Byrne (who may yet have a place with us but who needs to stop repeating the same mistakes).  Max Pacioretty’s ice-time under Martin shows that Martin gave him a fair chance.  He may have felt that he had a better chance under Carbo, but that year we had gaping holes in our lineup, and Carbo had little choice but to use Pacioretty in situations for which he wasn’t ready.

    I”m a bit puzzled about how Martin got the reputation he has with us of not being good with young players, because he arrived in Montreal with completely the opposite reputation.  I think that for the most part, he’s done well.  Pouliot, after a bad second half of last season, is gaining confidence and doing well on one of the two lower lines, and may yet work his way back up to a top line.  Eller is showing promise and looks like he’ll have a chance on a top line tonight.  Pacioretty was not ready for the NHL, not surprising considering his age and lack of experience.  I’m glad he’s having a good start to his year in Hamilton, but he would have done better to keep his mouth shut.

  180. smiler2729 says:

    Maybe JM wants the young players to act like men instead of mouthy, whiny teenagers…

  181. notbigbird says:

    Let’s face it. Martin is proving that he’s not an awful coach, but his handling of personnel is very nineteenth century. Even if he made it to the twentieth century, it would help.

  182. The Cat says:

    Well I am puzzled how he got the rep of being good with the youth. In Ottawa, youth was all he had so its not like he had a choice.

     

    [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

  183. notbigbird says:

    Granted, I’m reading between the lines as I see them. What it seems like to me is that young guys sit for any error and that old guys play despite any error. I am also under the impression, although I could be wrong and it would hardly be the first time, that there is little personal communication with the kids. It seems to be “sit down and shut up.” There also seems to be a recurring theme that our young guys go elsewhere and do better. A JM fan or not, I doubt that anyone would refer to him ad a great communicator.

  184. JF says:

    I don’t share your impression about Martin not communicating with the kids.  In fact, he spoke to Eller when he was benched, and he also spoke very positively about him to the media.  It’s true the veterans are allowed a longer leash than the kids, but it’s probably pretty much the same on all teams.  Coaches are reluctant to bench or demote highly paid players; but JM’s fiddling with the lines in the Columbus game suggests it might be coming.

    As for players doing better when they leave the Habs, people have been complaining about this for years, not just since JM was here.  But they base their complaints on a selective look at the players who have gone elsewhere.  Latendresse had a great season last year with Minny, D’Agostini has scored half a dozen goals, etc. But D’Agostini scored a bunch of goals in his first few games with us, after which he became invisible and was bad defensively.  And other players who have left us – Kovalev, Higgins, to name only two – haven’t exactly lit it up since then.

  185. notbigbird says:

    As I said to begin, I don’t think that JM is a terrible coach, but I don’t think communication is his forte. However, I’ll try to keep a more open mind. :) 

  186. habsguy says:

    I agree that Spacek sucks,  but to say that OB makes one mistake and is benched,  come on dude,  OB has had more oportunities than most of us could count to prove himself.  Right now I wouldn’t play him over anyone, including Spacek,  but I would play Picard!!!

  187. notbigbird says:

    Is there any evidence that OB, Pacs etc are whiners? Please share.

    PS: I’ll admit that SK might be a different story, but I still think he was handled badly.

  188. smiler2729 says:

    Who knows what is said between them?

    I will say that JM and any other coach should not play young top 6 types on the 3rd and 4th lines, did Jeremy Roenick start out on the 4th line “earning” his way up? No. Too many players are wasted this way.

  189. Mats Naslund says:

    Again, I said that JM was nearly incapable. The odd accident is bound to happen. 

  190. Mats Naslund says:

    Please tell me again how Doug Gilmore can be viewed in any way a young kid who needed development. His point total in the previous 5 years was 459!!!! Wow What a fixer-upper! Thank God JM came by and saved his career! If only he could have kept Dougie away from the babysitter!

     

    I’ll give props to JM for Chara and to a certain extent Redden.  JM is a defensive coach though. He took a 6’9″ beast who can skate and taught him to be a great defenseman. Redden was a bigger accomplishement given Chara’s natural advantages. Frankly, the way JM operates I’m surprised he didn’t try him on the pizza line.

     

     

  191. Natrous says:

    Once again, you’ve proven you can read, but also that you have no insight. Dougie’s point totals over the previous five years span three different leagues, two of which were at a junior level. Do you really think that the fact that Gilmour’s production DOUBLED under Martin and then declined afterwards had nothing to do with the coach??

    Don’t forget, not only does the coach instruct players to be better, but the coach also decides who your linemates are, what drills you’ll practice, what weight you’ll pump, etc. I get the impression that you think the coach is just some medium between the GM and the ice, some cut-out figure who flaps his jaw at a ref and hangs on for the ride.

  192. Mats Naslund says:

    1st. Give me a break dude. Gilmour had 177 points in his last year of junior. If you’re going to try to tell me Jacques Martin somehow played into this then you win. The cupcakes are yours. He’s your example of JM’s coaching with young players. he coached an already elite scorer who went on to become an elite scorer. Good for him.

    2nd. You have no idea what I think about coaches. You probably have never even noted my presence before this morning so do me a favour and cut the assumptions. 

     

    3rd. The present day examples of JM’s inability to work with young players are abundant. There are many positives to his coaching resume (and I’ll go on the record as saying I’ve been a supporter of his work in other areas on this team – but you knew that through all of your assuming right?). Still he’s BAD when it comes to handling the youth except in case where he simply can’t muck it up.  

  193. Natrous says:

    You seem really hung up on the Gilmour reference, since he was already a complete package right from junior (or so you would like us to think). Fine. Remove his name from the list. Does that make you feel better, knowing that even if Martin had ANYTHING to do with Dougie’s development, that he’s not credited for it?

    Obviously you don’t think much of JM as a coach or you wouln’t belittle him with regurlarity. Just because he chooses to sit an underperforming player doesn’t mean he thinks the kid is garbage. Take PK – he makes mistakes, but makes up for his mistakes with additional offense and usually corrects his defensive lapses. We never saw Max do that.

    Get off your high horse and realize that if Max Pacioretty had half as much talent as he thinks he has, he WOULD be in the NHL at the moment. This doesn’t make JM a bad manager of young talent, it makes him a realistic evaluator of what he has and what the best lineup is to win a hockey game.

  194. punkster says:

    You mean “point-per-game” Spezza? Hardly arguable.

  195. Mats Naslund says:

    “belittle him with regularity” – are you serious? this is one of 2 gripes I have with the guy. That and his insistence on sitting on 1 goal leads. Please show me my regular attempts to belittle. I’ve actually come to his defense on numerous occasions about his work with the penalty kill, as well as his coaching against the Pens and Caps last year.

    For the record – you were the one who brought Gilmour up. I’m not saying Martin did or didn’t help him – just that he isn’t a great example since he was an elite prospect. Just like PK or Marian Hossa. They could play for terrible coaches and still be superstars.  

    I’m FAR more concerned with how he’s handled Max Pac, D’Ags, Gui!, SK74, Pouliot, O’B etc etc etc. I’m not saying their all his fault. If they’re not performing thats on them. I’m just saying – rarely does he get the most out of his young kids. Rarely does he give them the leaway to improve on the job whcih is critical in today’s NHL. PK is the anomaly. Thank the gods for that.

  196. Natrous says:

    The thing is, the guys you have listed that you are concerned for have been given a solid chance at proving themselves, and none really stood out! Each one (with the exception of O’B) came to the habs and lit it up in the first week or two with the team, probably the effect of adrenaline alone, but fizzed out faster than anything.

    Maybe that was coaching, maybe that was being brought to the bigs too quickly, whatever – my point is that the coach uses the tools available to him for the betterment of the team. Each one of those guys struggled, and they didn’t struggle for lack of ice time, they struggled because they were in the deep end and couldn’t stay afloat. That’s the biggest difference between half the guys on the aforementioned list and the ones you’ve mentioned – in fact, they don’t belong in the same thread.

    If you want to point fingers at why these guys havent’ succeeded in Montreal, maybe we should start with the scouting department and not the coach. These kids seem to think that because they’ve done well in junior, that they’re entitled to their shot in the big show, but unless you produce on a consistent basis, you can’t stay in the lineup in today’s NHL. It’s just a fact of life.

  197. TripleX says:

    Barry Melrose was Steven Stamkos’s first NHL coach so I guess we should give him credit for mentoring a superstar.  Just because a young player was under a particular coach at one time does not automatically mean a linkage to future greatness.  Just saying.

     

    ‘Cogito ergo doleo’

  198. Natrous says:

    LOL – great point. I suppose any coach who spends 16 games with a team is bound to produce great strides in terms of development of his young talent. I know that any time I’ve ever had a cup of coffee with a stranger, that stranger has stuck with me for years afterwards.

  199. Natrous says:

    Arguable not in the sense of Spezza’s overall production or superstar status, but in terms of length of time under Martin’s guidance, which I think el Capitaine in the thread above is trying to elude to with his asinine comparison to Melrose/Stamkos.

    Martin was hard on Spezza because as a rookie/sophomore, his defensive game was almost non-existent, and we all know how JM feels about defence..

  200. Mats Naslund says:

    HAHAHA!!!! You’re giving Jacques Martin credit for Wade Redden? Doug Gilmore was HIS? Give me a break man. Zdeno Chara? wow. Hossa was bigger can’t miss prospect than PK! I never said he hasn’t had good players play for him. He is terrible at taking a young kid who has issues and setting the table for his success. 

  201. Natrous says:

    Really? What part of that list don’t you understand?

    Dougie was a young gun in St. Louis when JM coached him to his first 40+ goal, 100+ point season. Gilmour enjoyed his two most productive seasons (goal-wise) with JM as a coach.

    Wade Redden was an excellent dman until Ottawa had to choose between him and Chara; by then, JM was out as coach (and yet he still developed Redden with his assistant Perry Pearn).

    Chara was a dud in Long Island and became what he is today under JM’s instruction.

    Sure, fault me for including Hossa since he was a high draft pick, but I guarantee you he wasn’t always a stellar, two-way forward.

    If you honestly disagree with the above, by all means please let us all know, but keep in mind that by doing so, you only show your true ignorance – but please, please issue a rebuttal to the above.

  202. Mr.Hazard says:

    Imagine that! AK46 the one needing to spark G&G!

  203. WarHero says:

    Hey guys .. for those of you who want to see some of Jarred Tinordi:

    Ottawa 67’s -vs- London Knights

    Tonight: 7:30pm

    Rogers Channel 22 (Otawa)

    Online:

    I’ll be live blogging the game. You can view the blog at: http://ottawa67shub.com/category/ottawa-67s/

    Cheers,
    Anthony

    ——
    Follow Anthony on: Twitter & Ottawa 67s Fan hub & HockeyBuzz

  204. Harani says:

    AWESOME Nike Sportswear commercial by P.K. Subban. LOVEEEE!

    “It must be love!”

  205. SmartDog says:

    Nice. 

    Thanks for posting.

    ———
    Listen to the SmartDog. He knows his poop!

  206. mike g says:

    C’mon, Ryan Miller….

    Sit this one out, rest up the knee until it’s 100%. No need to rush it tonight, and risk re-injuring it.

    Be smart….

     

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

     I got AK at under 64.5 pts, with Triple X and Tom Nickle.

  207. smiler2729 says:

    Yeah, save yourself for the Leafs tomorrow… but then again, Patrick Lalime will have the obligatory awesome French Canadian-vs.-Montreal game tonight.

  208. BJ says:

    I’m glad Max Pac laid it out as it is. Player development is not our teams greatest asset. It seems to be a place where players lose confidence or are assigned roles that do not fit their style. If you select someone you should be clear enough to know what you are getting. If it doesn’t fit a teams needs pick players that fit the role rather than change some ones strengths.

  209. Natrous says:

    Maybe so, but you can’t expect JM to change his coaching methods and start coddling a young player every time he makes a mistake. There are plenty of coaches who don’t want to risk their own jobs just to allow their young stars to develop (albeit slowly) at the NHL level, rather than send them down to a league where they should be dominating.

    That said, Paches has 12 points in 10 games, but he’s only got 3 goals… should he not have more than three goals if he’s a “top 6″ level player in the big show??

  210. longtimehabsfan says:

    I understand the politics of Max-Pac’s speaking honestly and that it will hurt how he’s viewed in the organization [for how long, who knows?] but the Habs have a real problem with player development and general team management.  This became even more evident as I watched the Blues play the Sharks last night.  Here they were, with Halak in the nets and Matt Dags in the lineup [who has 5 goals by the way] and here we sit with Lars Eller [who may pan out] and Palushaj in Hamilton.  And the Blues, a young team, played a spirited game in front of Jaro. The Blues are 7-1-2 and 6-0 at home with all home games being Halak starts.  Pierre Gauthier has made John Davidson look like a genius and he’s anything but that.

    Of course, this is just a snap shot of the season thus far and in the end the Habs may come out ahead but does anyone here really believe that?

    Whether Max-Pac’s words needed to be said, I don’t know.  But his words are only a symptom of the fact that the Habs brass has mishandled his development as well as the development of others.  I understand Basu’s point of view but, eventually, a player in the organization was going to say something.  Afterall, many HIO members have been saying the same exact thing for the last two years.

  211. Timo says:

    Blues-shmues… We have The System? Do Blues have The System? NO! So there is nothing to talk about.

    I hear ya though man. It is painful to watch Halak. And it is not because Price didn’t deliver. I think so far he did and then some, but it’s because we got nothing in return for the premier goalie. It maybe be far fetched (though I don’t htink so) but this is nearing the Pat Roy deal disaster. And again… it’s not becaues we traded him. It’s because what we got in return – which is really nothing.

  212. BJ says:

    Not to bash Gomez but how many think Desharnais could replace what Gomez brings to the team at a much lower price and what could the saved $$$$$$$$ be used on to improve the team?

  213. Timo says:

    Heck, at this point Laraque would be more than an adequate replacement…

  214. SmartDog says:

    Could be. What’s the going rate on .2 points/game 2nd line centers these days?  

    We’ll have to guess because there probably aren’t any others.  Way to break new ground Gomer!

    ———
    Listen to the SmartDog. He knows his poop!

  215. linp says:

    I still think that Gionta has to rediscover his shots. He had 47 shots but only one goal. It indicates that Gomez is passing him the puck. Hope tat AK can open up more space and time for Gionta to improve his shooting average.

  216. bertuzzisucks says:

    Yes Desharnais could replace Gomez on the 2nd line and he gives 150 percent every shift.

    But then we would have 7 million to play with? why would we do that, so we could re-sign Hammer at a 1 year for 7 million. Sont forget taxes are higher in Quebec?

  217. Timo says:

    Max Pac can be top six in my beer league. That will be good for his ego. Top six… jeezus… If he is top six I should just be given the Maurice Richard trophy.

  218. Mats Naslund says:

    What about top 6 in the AHL which is where he said he should be? How does 12 pts in 10 games sound for the top 6? Or is 0 pts in 10 games by Tom Pyatt more a fit for our club? The kid speaks the truth, even if it is uncomfortable for our coach who feels discomfort with any player that may potentially score more than 10 goals in a season.

  219. punkster says:

    As I mentioned earlier many here will point to this as proof positive JM doesn’t know how to handle young players. Oh, the youth of today. Everything should be handed to them on a silver platter because they were King S–t in Midget “B” or whatever. Earn your spot Max or ride buses for the rest of your career.

  220. Storm Man says:

    NCHL? What team?

  221. Mats Naslund says:

    Here Here to Max Pacioretti! Finally somebody in our organization who understands how to develop TOP 6 prospects. You don’t take a kid who has been a top line his whole life and try to make him a grinder in hopes that he SOMEHOW is able to outscore the top lines and earn a spot! If there isn’t a spot for him (which right now there isn’t) he’s best served continuing to learn how to be a top line forward so that when he’s called upon…. wait for it….. he’s actually ready! 

    Jacques Martin is nearly incapable of developing young talent. Any young player that succeeds here is doing so in spite of his coach – unless his goal is to be a 3rd line plug scoring 10 goals per year. Look at Benoit Pouliot and Lars Eller right now. Only as a last resort does our fearless leader consider the obvious: that the best offensive players will have the best luck on the top line. Moen, Pyatt, etc all get their fake chance to get the line going and we’re 13 games into the season still trying to get our top line started! Its not going to happen in 1 game Jacques! 

  222. BJ says:

    Agreed, good comments.

  223. linp says:

    Well said. The way JM punishes young players is very disturbing. How can a player develop if he is so afraid of making a mistake.

  224. Natrous says:

    “Jacques Martin is nearly incapable of developing young talent.” You know, you’re absolutely correct. Other young, talented players has not developed at all include:

    • Doug Gilmour
    • Daniel Alfredsson
    • Wade Redden
    • Marian Hossa
    • Vinny Prospal
    • Martin Havlat
    • Chris Phillips
    • Mike Fisher
    • Zdeno Chara
    • Jason Spezza (ok, arguable)
  225. G-Man says:

    It’s “Hear, hear.” Meaning you want people to listen and agree. Otherwise, you’d just be present…twice.

  226. BJ says:

    Other than AK 46 and Plekanec how many players have more than 3 goals on our current top 6?

  227. Mats Naslund says:

    There is an EPICALLY HUGE difference between letting a young player learn the game and “coddling” him. You think Bruce Boudreau is always pleased with the defensive play of Backstrom or Semin? No. He lets them make mistakes though, because he knows that in the end, they’ll make more better plays than not. Can you say the same for any young player outside of PK Subban in our whole system? Not a chance. The only way Martin “develops” a young player is if that player is a slam dunk like PK or Spezza.

    Where is our Chris Stewart or Claude Giroux? If Martin had the opportunity he would have ruined AK46 too last year. Luckily our cupboard is so bare that he had no chance! 

  228. TripleX says:

    So right dude, look at Gomez he proves he is a top six with all those goals he scores.  :)

     

    ‘Cogito ergo doleo’

  229. Natrous says:

    Ummm, Gomez has a career average of 16 goals per season – what’s your point? Clearly, he’s on a top 6 line for other reasons besides goal production.

    Hint: Max Pac doesn’t own any of the skills Gomez does.

  230. Timo says:

    I think JM needs to focus on having his goalies score some goals.

  231. G-Man says:

    246 goals is not a lot to ask. Last season: 217 for- 223 against. This team SHOULD be better than that, but they are finding a way not to be. (I know it’s still early.) The lack of finish makes this team very hard to watch for long stretches (like right now).

  232. longtimehabsfan says:

    And it’s painful to watch our management team make other teams better. 

  233. Timo says:

    You’d think that after about 20 years of watching Habs contributing to other teams’ success we’d get used to that… but it is still tough, i agree.

  234. Timo says:

    Hey man, I am just having some fun with it. I couldn’t care less about Max Pac really. He had his chance here, and even in his limit role he was less than stellar. Granted, JM and the rest of the “braintrust” absolutely suck at developing young players or working with players… but Max Pac is not a premier NHLer and never will be. If he wants to be known as the top 6 AHL forward, all power to him. Everybody has their goals.

  235. Timo says:

    True or not I will never miss a chance to slam JM ;)

  236. punkster says:

    Oh, I know that Mike. Stuff like this is just ridiculous though. The “I Told You So” crowd will drag out Max quotes for the next 6 months to prove their point that JM ruins kids. Max hasn’t proven he’s a top 6 in the NHL. What he has shown is the ability to put in good 3rd and 4th line minutes and do what has been asked of him there and JM acknowledges that much. If he had kept his mouth shut he would maybe get another NHL shot this season. But not now, not with the Habs. He’s done here.

  237. Timo says:

    I used to ref the NCHL. I sub for my co-workers team in WHARL or whatever the league is called. Their team is Ice something or other – might Division C I think. Total beer league hockey man.

     

    You play in NCHL? If you do chances are I know you and probably don’t like you ;)

  238. Ian Cobb says:

    Your up bright and early this morning Mike! Our train leaves in an hour or so.

    Did you give any thought into live blogging from Hurley’s.?

  239. SeriousFan09 says:

    A lot of us are up early Ian, about to hit the road out here in Brantford. See you all tonight.

     

    - I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.

  240. smiler2729 says:

    Gomez & Gionta are in a slump, duh, it’s not like it will last all season… but I guess the sky is fallin’ so send in the heavy artillery, AK46.

    Lars Eller, give him the minutes up top and maybe he shines… leave him on the third and fourth lines and he turns into Pacioretty…

    Pacioretty’s got some ‘splaining to do… Hamilton air will mess yer mind, Steelback beer will mess yer judgment…

    Patrick Roy is still a hothead, that kinda stuff will keep you out of the NHL forever.

    Wish I were at The Summit… there should be an Ontario Summit, there’s so many of us here in exile…

    Damn, shoulda kept Halak, damn, shoulda kept Garon, damn, shoulda kept Roy, damn, shoulda kept Vachon, damn, shoulda kept Plante…

  241. SeriousFan09 says:

    Marinaro is a hack and threw him every leading question he could to try and get a story out the interview, not the kid’s fault that like many his age he’s not slick with the media. I’m not worried about this, a season in Hamilton is what he needs anyway. Much ado about nothin’ on this.

     

    - I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.

  242. Ian Cobb says:

    Wonder how much rain and how cold in Mtl. tonight and especially tomorrow.??

    Read Ian Cobb’s HI/O Blog

  243. twocents says:

    Have an awesome time gentlemen, one of these years I will make it back to a summit.

  244. lenny says:

    Halak gets his 3rd shutout. Dagostini has 5 goals…if Gomez and Gionta get traded to st louis they are sure to lead the league in assists and scoring

  245. yathehabsrule says:

    Morning all,

    Getting ready to battle 401 traffic, but I though I’d thrwo some Habs history at you first.

    Chris Boyle can’t make it this year, but he’s got some more reading for us too, this time on G&G

    ___________________________________________

    Note the new digs! but yeah I’m still on Twitter!

  246. Puck Bard says:

    Shite, wish I was there.

    Have fun Ian and everyone!


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