Visiting Leafs hog the headlines

SubbanLeafs
While the visiting Leafs make waves, all is relatively smooth sailing with the team we care about.
Louis Leblanc and Andreas Engqvist were recalled from Hamilton on Friday because Scott Gomez and Aaron Plaushaj are out of the Saturday night game with eye injuries.

The development of P.K.

Leafs’ woes are little consolation

Burke debunks Moneyball

Darche the late bloomer

Red Fisher on deadline deals

Dave Stubbs on James Reimer

Everyone has a Béliveau story

Philippe Cantin on five crucial weeks for Geoff Molson

273 Comments

  1. SmartDog says:

    This (roughly translated) is a line from the article about Molson’s 5 weeks:

    “Difficult to approach, far from the public, Gauthier is an exception among the GM of professional teams. Regardless of which sport, most of them understand their role in terms of communication. They like to take the pulse of their community.”

    It goes on to say that the reaction to Gauthier’s hiring of Cunneyworth was a surprise to him because he didn’t have his “antennae” out.

    I agree with this but it goes beyond this. The guy lives in a little space, where there are things he obviously doesn’t see. I mean – Kaberle? WTF? When I hear Gauthier speak he doesn’t make as much sense as other GM’s. He seems to pick and choose points while missing obvious things. It’s remarkable to me that he still has a job – it really makes no sense. To me it’s as symbolic as anything you can name of the fact that the Habs organization is in trouble. We all know he’ll get canned – he NEEDS to go. Why he waits is a mystery. And not very encouraging.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  2. keepthefaith says:

    Darche over Ovechkin. Now I’ve heard it all. Randy is that you?

  3. HardHabits says:

    The size and grit debate rages on!!

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=capress-hkn_habs_toughness-17230976

    ===

    On another note. The Tanking™ strategy seems to be in jeopardy with Gomez and Gomez-lite out with eye injuries.

    My prediction. Tonight is going to be old time hockey and a great spectacle for the nation wide telecast masses.

  4. boing007 says:

    The goalies should get a penalty for delay of game. Stay in your net.

    Richard R

  5. captainclutch19 says:

    So, what’s going on with Avtsin?

  6. habs17 says:

    Lets go habs. darche is a good player but when he plays 22 minutes, no wonder were last place

    • db says:

      Your posts are an eyesore. Just use the shift and period buttons. The signature doesn’t help either. It just screams troll. Heart players are needed on every team, yes 22 minutes is 12 too much but… the format of your posts just kills me, I can’t take anything you say seriously. (even when I agree!)

      • Mr. Biter says:

        db, your a funny guy. below you attack me for being intollerent to Dude, yet here you are attacking Habs17 cause you don’t like his posts. Practice what you preach.

        Mr. Biter
        No Guts No Glory

        • db says:

          Nah, I wasn’t attacking you… just defending a Dude. The fact that you called him out was the part I didn’t like… I like most of your posts actually, before, during and after the games. I actually partially agreed with habs17… it wasn’t an attack either, just a critique on post format. He can do what he wants, and I don’t spend enough time here to know that all his posts are grammar free (nor do I know if anyone’s told him that grammar helps your point.).

          I get along with everyone and I call out nobody but I’ll stand up for anyone here if they’re being called out for having an opinion. Maybe my statement was blunt… if he’s offended, sorry habs17.. just trying to help.

          • habs17 says:

            hey, apology accepted

            http://www.scottygomezfoundation.com/
            (I support Scott Gomez)

          • Mr. Biter says:

            db, Dude is they only poster i’ve ever called out cause it’s the same thing every time and he never responds. Guess he just wants to stir the pot but it finally got to me. Glad you like some of my posts and when it comes to grammer i’m probably the 2nd. worst on this site and I can’t remember the worst one. See we can have conversations without attacking each other and you responded and so did I. Enjoy the game tonight.
            Go Habs Go

            Mr. Biter
            No Guts No Glory

          • db says:

            We probably agree on many things… lately grammar has been bugging me as much as Dudes been bugging you I’m sure. Sometimes his posts are funny, I read them as negative with tongue in cheek. At least they’re just one liners and easy to skip past ;)

          • HardHabits says:

            Dude is ex-xtrahabsfan the guy that said he was going delete his profile if Price didn’t win at least half his 20 first games last season. Too bad he didn’t make that bet this campaign.

            We all have a little Troll within us. Mine just happens to be particularly articulate.

          • Mr. Biter says:

            yeah, I’ll try to skip them but can’t promise he won’t get reply #4. Looks like you went form a bad guy to a good guy from habs17. Edit button works well.
            LOL

            Mr. Biter
            No Guts No Glory

          • Mr. Biter says:

            HH, yes then my blood pressure would be lower and my comsumption of Rum would also be less after reading his posts. BTW what is an ex-xtrahabsfan? Never heard that one before.

            Mr. Biter
            No Guts No Glory

  7. Bripro says:

    Hey Gerry (HB), thanks for the distracting comment!
    Laughed so hard I spilled plaster all over the floor! No paint on the TV yet.
    I came on here for a 10-minute lunch break and the same would-be GMs are slamming Darche.
    As an employer, I would hire 100 Darches over a single Ovetchkin.
    Why? Because I’ll be sitting in my office one day and Ovie will come meandering in, manicurist on the left, makeup artist on the right, asking how come his wonderful customers haven’t received their orders.
    Press the page button, and my slave-labour Darche will be in the back, answering while he’s holding 100 cases for Ovie’s prima-donna customers, and will never complain.
    Darche is a work horse, and I’ve said this before….
    Anyone who believes he doesn’t belong in the NHL, I will venture to guess, you’ve never played at that level.
    Start criticizing someone who deserves it, like PG, or Kaberlazy, Can’tpoli, or even Gomez.

  8. HabFanSince72 says:

    That shootout point against the Wild makes cheering for a win problematic. Optimally, we want to finish 29th while the Leafs finish one spot out of the playoffs.


    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • db says:

      Agreed, but it seems nobody in the East wants to get into a bottom playoff spot. Can we not just roll 4 lines, match them up if you want but what difference does it make, it’s the Leafs. Give Eller as much PP time as he can handle. As much as I want to roll lines, I cringe every time I see Campoli and Kaberle.

  9. boing007 says:

    A wandering goalie should always be fair game. I think they get too much protection. Miller should have knocked Lucic on his butt.

    Richard R

  10. Matt says:

    Question for all to discuss.

    Who do we take first overall this year?

    Alex Galchenyuk or Radek Faksa

  11. NLhabsfan says:

    Hey BITER that is funny:)

    • Mr. Biter says:

      Thanks, All he does is cut the Habs down then goes back down into his Momma’s basement to come up with another one line gem and then back to the basement.

      Mr. Biter
      No Guts No Glory

  12. j2w4habs25 says:

    We need to the crowd to be the 6th man out there tonight!!

    Carey Price #31

    • db says:

      Funny you mention that. I’m a Bell Centre veteran.. from working there and the seasons of 10 game packs. The fans there have no idea when to cheer. There’s a problem when it’s impossible to get a wave going with a 3 goal lead. The Ole is almost dead folks… and when it is there, it’s the wrong time. Here’s a run down if you don’t want to look like a rookie.

      Ole: only acceptable after a 2 goal lead.
      Wave: anytime
      Go Habs Go: after we take a penalty or get scored on.
      Carey Carey Carey: after a HUGE save
      Na na na na: 2 goal lead, with less than 2 min to go. Otherwise you piss off the ghosts and things get Wild.
      Heckling away goalie: anytime
      Boo the refs: only after a bad call
      Boo your team: never.

      Again, this is just a guideline… feel free to add. I’m also glad there’s an organ in the building again. Our chances at a cup without one: 0%.

      • mb says:

        Agree with most, but might as well add some exceptions in there.

        I think the ole song can be used when the team is starting to play well/needs a little extra push, more than a go habs go (ex.: last playoffs, the Bruins are up 3-0, Habs score 2 and ten minutes remain in the game, the fans are on their feet singing ole ole ole during the whole commercial break… Of course we know the outcome, but I think the ole was legit in that situation.)

        For the na na na, I agree. I remember just too well the game against the Leafs two or three years ago, when the fans started singing when it was 4-2 Habs with six minutes to go… Next thing you know it becomes 4-4 (a little embarassing, I guess).

        And like you said, heckling away goalie: ALWAYS a right time :)

        • db says:

          I remember Ole’ing through commercial breaks in the playoffs… and for the momentum push. It’s just sad that it takes the jumbotron to get people to Ole now. Trust me, I represented last row quite well against Minnesota and still couldn’t get past a 3 man Ole.

          We don’t heckle enough either. It’s an obvious confidence thing (losing 22 home games this year hasn’t helped). The energy in that building is insane and when it’s a nervous energy it can be felt by everyone.

          • mb says:

            True that it is sad that people need the jumbotron to sing ole or to “make some noise”. At least fans get into it. And you’re right about the heckling, it’s a confidence thing. I know it’s nice and all, but at the same time, when you’re down a couple of goals and the team you cheer for doesn’t look like it’s gonna score anytime soon, it kinda looks embarassing to taunt the opposite goalie, IMO. Much like singing the na na na song too early.

            BUT, then again, when the fans are into it, the energy in that building is insane. Funny thing is that I attended some live games in the past seasons, yet the craziest atmosphere I’ve witnessed was during Habs-Penguins game 7 presented on the big screens… while the team wasn’t even on the ice. I can’t imagine how loud it would have been, had the game been live at the Bell.

        • Trisomy 21 says:

          The Minn game was brutal. Almost 4 minutes left and they started singing it with a 2 goal lead. I would have put a bag over my head if I was singing that song.

          Maybe they forgot we’re last place in the East

  13. habs17 says:

    should be a rather meaningless game, but im hoping for an entertaining game and it should be

    http://www.scottygomezfoundation.com/
    President of the Scott Gomez Fan Club

    (I support Scott Gomez)

  14. HardHabits says:

    I had a dream last night. The Habs went on this incredible tear to end the season missing the play-offs and drafting 12th over-all.

    It wasn’t necessarily a nightmare but it did feel like a bad dream.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      with the bottom of the east being so pathetic it could happen. especially if Markov comes back

      “Like Canadian Hip hop..check us out http://www.groovecontrolmusic.com

    • habs17 says:

      i would cry if that happen’d

      http://www.scottygomezfoundation.com/
      President of the Scott Gomez Fan Club

      (I support Scott Gomez)

    • The Dude says:

      Not gonna happen with a team full of fourth liners.

    • ZepFan2 says:

      You need an exorcism.

      “The power of Tank™ compels you!
      The power of Tank™ compels you!…”

      ———————————————————————-
      “You cannot petition the lord with prayer!” – James Douglas Morrison

      • The Dude says:

        I need the Canadiens to have a fk’n real team of Stanley cup contenders,lol

        • Mr. Biter says:

          Dude you chickensh*t, this is the 3rd time I’m calling you out and am wondering if you’ll ever have the courage to respond. Since in your stoner mind we have only 4th line players who are unworthy to play in the NHL, why don’t we put them all on waivers (since no other GM’s would want them in your opinion) and please if your head clears up for a moment please give us your opinion of who should compose our roster and how we should get them, All you do is bitch and complain but never have an answer to back up your posts.
          I’M WAITING.

          Mr. Biter
          No Guts No Glory

          • dhenry1234 says:

            lmao at this Bird getting all upset because someone has an opinion different than his. Stfu and wipe your tears away. who the hell cares? Go live your life.

          • db says:

            Seriously, I’ll stand up against this virtual bullying…

            It’s a free forum. The guy can post what he wants. He has no ideas on how to improve? Fine. But “calling him out”…. c’mon man. What good does it do to project and predict and have an opinion on the lines anyway?

            There are many commenters here and some can’t spell, others won’t use punctuation, few have great ideas, many know nothing really, and most are just here for a good time, etc.. in general, we all get along.

            Ya might wanna try some of his stuff, lighten things up a little :p

          • Mr. Biter says:

            Actually dhenry, since I’ve never seen your name here i assume you don’t come here on a regular basis. If someone doesn’t agree with me I really don’t give a FF but every day the same crap comes from Dude about how bad the habs are and yes I’m getting tired of it. hey if you like his point of view great but GFYS and I definatly have a life which os more than I can say about dude and yourself. Are you his roomate in his momma’s basement?
            DB, prehaps calling him out is harsh but as above his constant crap about the Habs just bugs me and this is the 3 rd time I’ve asked him for solutions and no reply. Needs to have other defend him,but I’m a big boy and can take your comments without getting offended.

            Mr. Biter
            No Guts No Glory

          • HardHabits says:

            People just don’t get the value that people like The Dude and Timo bring to this place. It would be a sorry state of affairs here if it was only posters of the supposed True Fans™ ilk dominating these pages. All the talk would be about how the refs are jobbing the Habs, how they are unlucky, how other team’s big meanies are always taking it out on the smaller, gifted and speedy forwards and older and soft defence men. How Carey Price is actually the best goal tender in the NHL, how when Markov comes back the PP is going to click at a 25% rate, how if only the Habs were healthy they’d contend. I mean come on. They went to the ECF’s two seasons ago. It doesn’t matter that the goal tender that played out of this universe for two rounds and the highest play-off goal scorer since the 70′s are no longer with the team. They still took the eventual Starley Cup Champiars to game 7. Bob Gainey has gotten this team into the play-offs 5 out of 7 years. The Habs do have a 1st line. Forget that it would be the 2nd line on any other contender.

            HIO needs Tweaking™ because the comments section has surely Tanked™ lately.

            Anybody up for some line combos or better yet, next season’s projected line combos based on NHL13 trade rules and guidelines?

            ;-) :-) :-D :-) ;-) :-) :-D :-) ;-)

          • Mr. Biter says:

            HH, Timo is is funny and can be witty at times and there are enough posters with different ideas but most have some solutions and even though you and i mostly have different opinions I’ve never given you a hard time (and visa versa) but the difference is your posts are usually thought out not the one line Hab hating posts from Dude.

            Mr. Biter
            No Guts No Glory

  15. NLhabsfan says:

    Does anyone here believe the firing of the LAFF coach is the LAFFS hatred of us to make sure they are UP especially for the game.

  16. boing007 says:

    Britain had The Two Ronnies. Tonight, we’ll have The Two Randys. Isn’t that dandy?

    Richard R

  17. boing007 says:

    PG should have brought up Clement Jodoin to replace Martin. It would have spared us much gnashing of the teeth and protest demonstrations in front of the Bell Centre. At the least, he might have done a better job with the rookies. Maybe Eller wouldn’t have lost his mojo.

    Richard R

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      “protest demonstrations in front of the Bell Centre”

      22 fairly quiet people with signs and a petition, for one game.


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  18. 24 Cups says:

    Reading the comment section (by mostly laff fans) is where the real entertainment is to be found.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=389383

  19. keepthefaith says:

    What exactly is Darche “blooming” into? A 20 minute 10 pt. A year player? Awesome

    • fun police says:

      yes, but he works hard! (sarcasm)

      • 24 Cups says:

        fp – Well you know what they always say, there’s a bit of truth in all forms of sarcasm:-)

        I think when we evaluate players we always have to look at what role they play on a team, what the expectations are and their salary in relation to the stated roles and expectations.

        What role does Darche play? He’s a secondary player who can fill in on both wings. On a 13 man depth chart (for forwards), he would probably rate in the bottom four.

        Expectations? Be a jack of all trades who gives his all every game, doesn’t complain or whine and acts as a good role model for the younger players. Being French-Canadien is a bonus. Darche did stumble out of the gate this season but has picked it up again just like he did last year.

        Salary? $750,000 a year after making the league minimum last year. Worst case scenario is that he gets re-signed next year to be the team’s spare forward at the same rate of pay.

    • roady says:

      Darche is not an NHL hockey player, he just plays on a bad NHL hockey team, with a clown running the show….my opinion of him is well known and he is only a Hab for one reason….en francais….

      take your drink to the end of the bar buddy…come on now, don’t be a fool…

  20. jols101 says:

    Long time reader of this great forum and a die hard Habs fan for 30 years, figured I would sign up and add to the discusion. I am pumped about the game tonight and am extremely pleased that it looks like the Habs management has finally woken up and gotten this team a little tougher. The last 3 years, i found it a little humilating that the habs were the whiping boys of the NHL. Last time the we played the leafs, Brown was in Subbans face all game and ran him 2 or 3 times, tonight he will have to answer to Staubitz for that and i think it makes all the hab players more comfortable knowing they have him on the team.
    However, i think our problems run deeper then team toughness and along with getting tougher in the bottom 6 we need to get much more skilled in the top 6, so here is my question as an armchair GM- this june and the draft would pleks and our 1st pick for Huberdeau and florida’s 1st pick work for Florida??? I think Huberdeau is going to be the stud first liner Montreal hasnt had for 20 years. I’m not french and am a firm believer that the habs should get the best GM, coach and players available regardless of language but the fact that he is french is another positive. Thoughts???

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Welcome Jols, great to get new perspectives here. Agree we need improved top 6, just hope we get a new GM this summer who does it the right way, be it trade or draft.

      And while I also am not from Quebec, it is wonderful for the team to have a local boy do well, just the same teams like Toronto should want a local boy to be hero. Gilmour owned and still does own the city of Toronto, as great as Mats Sundin may have been, he wasn’t a “local”. All Cdn teams should hope to have a local do well, it should supercede getting the best talent, but having someone from your province is a tremendous benefit.

      • HardHabits says:

        The Quebec situation and the Habs is particular HiB. There is a Quebec Major Junior Hockey League that the team can mine for talent and the history of the team is one where all Cup wins were either led by or had a strong contingent of players from Quebec. Add to that a population that adores hockey. I have two colleagues at work whose sons all play hockey in peewee leagues. All their kids think and dream about is hockey 24/7. Buddy even set up a back yard rink for his kid. It’s not like it’s Florida or California where kids are outside tossing volleyballs in the sand and the sun. I walk down my street and the kids are skating and playing hockey at the outside rink. Serge Savard had it right. Bob Gainey just doesn’t get it.

      • jols101 says:

        Thanks for the welcome. I’m a Habs fan out of Ottawa, was a Habs fan long before this generation of the Sens came to fruition and while having an NHL franchise in Ottawa is great for the city there is no way i could change my love for the Habs…and I agree that a French superstar is something the Habs franchise needs in the biggest way.

    • 24 Cups says:

      Ron – There has been lots of talk about Montreal trading for Huberdeau which is quite understandable. However, I think the real question is why in the world would Florida make this move? They hit paydirt last year grabbing this guy so I can’t see them taking the risk of trading for another junior.

      Huberdeau was lights out in the playoffs, not to mention that he was also the MVP. Great skills and attitude, just needs to bulk up.

      It’s too bad the Habs didn’t implode last year!

      • jols101 says:

        Ya 24 Cups, thats what i figured. Why would Florida give up on such a talent. Was wishful thinking on my part.

      • jedimyrmidon says:

        And their GM is Tallon. I don’t think he’s a foolish GM by any means even if he had to offload 3/4 of his Stanley Cup champion team in Chicago after their win. It’s amazing how much talent was on that roster.

    • sprague cleghorn says:

      Welcome aboard. Keep your head up. :)

  21. HabinBurlington says:

    I wonder how Bripro’s painting is going, hopefully he hasn’t painted over his TV and can watch the game tonight.

  22. jesuspricesaves says:

    I heard somewhere that there was good news about Markov today can anyone elaborate?

    less is more

  23. HabsFan82 says:

    would liked to have seen Bourque with Pleks and Geoffrion
    White with Eller and Leblanc for tonights game. don’t think RC is too concerned about winning. if Price stands on his head, we may win.
    Toronto has a new broom behind the bench and a new broom sweeps clean.

  24. punkster says:

    There’s some discussion below about the validity or use of more detailed stats to analyze a hockey player or team performance.

    So I’m wondering which items on this list of newer stats do people not understand or not accept…and why?

    Fenwick – % of shots and misses in favour of the team while on ice
    Corsi – % of shots, misses and blocked shots in favour of the team while on ice
    On Ice SH% – Team shooting % while on ice
    On Ice SV% – Goaltender save % while on ice
    PDO – Combination of shooting and save %, trends to 1000, “Luck Quotient”
    Scoring Chances For – Team scoring chances while on ice
    Scoring Chances Against – Scoring chances against the team while on ice
    True +/- Plus/Minus excluding shorthanded and empty net situations
    Risk/Reward Rating – Measure of successful to unsuccessful plays made by a player
    QCOMP – Weighted average of opponent’s relative plus/minus
    CRQC – Weighted average of opponent’s Relative Corsi number
    Off Zone Starts – % of a player’s shifts that start in the offensive zone
    Off Zone Finish – % of a player’s shifts that end in the offensive zone
    Penalty Ratio – How many penalties a player takes for each one they draw

    ***Subbang Baby!!!***

    • twilighthours says:

      Fenwick and corsi – fine. But these are the ones that get trumpeted to argue Gomez’ value…..

      Numbers involving shooting% – people who who use shot% are always talking about luck. Apparently gabe desjaardins did some study once where he concluded that kovalchuk was not significantly better at shooting than the average NHL player. This is laughable, so when I read talk of shooting %, luck, and regression to the mean, I think these people have never actually played with a guy who has the pro release, strength, accuracy on a shot.

      Risk/reward – arbitrary in the way it is recorded

      Qcomp – why do people even use this when they spend their time bashing traditional +/-?

      Zone start stuff – all very interesting.

      None of these things are stats.

      And none of them are as important as goals. Not even remotely close. Which are so often overlooked in these discussions that it makes my head hurt. That’s my biggest beef. I don’t have a particular problem with them but they are being trumped up as being more important than they are. Burke said so himself.

      • Bill says:

        When they start putting Fenwick on hockey cards, maybe we’ll be able to trade Gomez!

        Full Breezer 4 Life

      • Talik Sanis says:

        When speaking of quality of competition, most place far more emphasis on Corsi quality of competition and Corsi relative quality of competition. Among the proponents of advanced stats, there does tend to be more skepticism of standard quality of competition than of its corsi-based relative. Corsi relative quality of competition is most valued for the very reason you’ve indicated. Both forms are often weighted, however.

        Zone starts are, I believe, far more than simply interesting; they are a solid means of determining who a coach is protecting, which players cannot adequately defend or are being freed from that responsibility, and who on the team suffers for that freedom. They also have a statistically significant impact on a player’s Corsi. Without Kesler taking on a huge defensive workload, the Sedins with their highly favorable zone starts wouldn’t be as productive as they have been.

    • Cal says:

      These statistical analyses work better in baseball. Most of the stats you listed aren’t all that important. Fenwick and Corsi don’t really say too much. An average joe who’s never watched a hockey game before can usually see which team is dominating. You can dominate the offensive zone all night, but if you don’t score, who cares?
      How accurate is +/- if I just step on the ice and my team scores or is scored on?
      Who determines what is a scoring chance? Can’t every shot that makes it to the goalie be considered that?
      Doesn’t the coach determine who will be on the ice at the start of each shift?
      Stats are like bikinis: what they reveal can be intriguing, but what they conceal is vital.

    • jedimyrmidon says:

      I think of it like economics: the financial performance of a company is measured by a whole slew of ratios. There are obviously ways to skew the ratios in one’s favour or manipulate the data to shift certain expenses elsewhere and thus improve the final value.

      Despite all that, in the grand scheme of things, I do think that you can use these ratios to draw some conclusions or others (these are pretty much the only indicators outsiders can use). I would not go as far as to say that looking at such data is pointless or meaningless. It just requires a good degree of skill and knowledge.

    • Bill says:

      I accept all of them … just in a very limited way.

      For example: QualComp. It would be VERY interesting to have a stat that told you how tough the assignment a player is drawing is. QC does this, but again, in a heavily limited manner. We all know the pitfalls of +/-, and they are built into QC.

      Fenwick and Corsi: these provide interesting snapshots of what’s happening on the ice. The problem, obviously, is that are 11 other players on the ice at the same time as the player in question, and the stats can’t control for that: they don’t even try.

      So all of these are stats that tell very specific things, interesting things.

      But as soon as people try to INTERPRET from these stats towards complex arguments, all validity is lost. Because these stats DO NOT tell you how effective a player is.

      It’s like an IQ test. People interpret from this statistic to decide how “intelligent” the subject is, but IQ tests don’t measure “intelligence”: they measure how good someone is at taking the IQ test.

      Full Breezer 4 Life

      • punkster says:

        To paraphrase, the stats tell interesting things but it’s the interpretations that you may not buy…is that correct?

        I see your point though maybe more exposure to, and experience with them would help? Not just by fans like us but by the folks who develop and use them to perform analysis.

        For example, you also mention the individual Corsi and Fenwick not taking into account the 11 other players on the ice. However, using those stats and comparing them with line mates, line combos, line matches etc. would indeed take them into account. They may give a more detailed picture of how a players performs with certain line mates, in certain situations and against certain opposition players and lines.

        I think they can be useful but it will probably take time to refine their usage. Heck, few thought Roger Neilson’s video analysis would be of value back in the 70s.

        ***Subbang Baby!!!***

    • SteverenO says:

      I don’t know much about corsi and fenwick stats , but I do follow the team goals for and against. The avergae minutes if ice time per goal allowed and or scored while a player is on the ice is the only meaningful stat, in my opinion.

      If fenwick and corsi indicate that Gomez should play on the PP than they are utterly useless statistics.

      There was a a point during this season where Gomez had played 60 minutes with the man adavantage and the team had scored only one powerplay goal. WHile its trus that he has been somewhat more effective of late, as of now he has been on the ice for 5 team PP golas in 84 minutes, the fact is that he should never been allowed to go that long being completely ineffective. I posted earlier that during those first 60 minutes of powerplay time that Gomez was on the ice the team would have fared just as well, if not better, had he gone on the ice WITHOUT his hockey stick.
      Even with his recent surge, Gomez is averaging one goal per 17 minutes of PP time. With DD on the ice the team scores a powerplay goal every 8 minutes.
      Using the same statistics , I pointed out last year in the playoffs that Jacques Martin made ahuge mistake. Gomex had been our most effective penalty killer all season long, and Desharnais was far superior on the powerplay. In his infinite wisdom, Martin played Gomez on the PP and Desharnais was killing penalties. needles to say we lost the series because we did not score any powerplay goals.

      Using the sames stats I was also able to confidently predict that the HAbs penalty kill would not be negatively impacted by trading Hal Gill. While he was an effective penalty killer, the maount of ice time he was given on the PK unit was taking away form others (Subban and Diaz) who are even better at killing penalties than Gill was.

      I wonder if Emqvist and Lebalanc who both have had success on the PP in Hamilton will get a chance to play on the PP tonight.

      In all likelihood, they will not. RC will put Gomez on the PP and make EnQVIST a penalty killer. go figure.

      regards,

      Steve O.

  25. Mavid says:

    i guess i should go find something to do until tonight

  26. joeybarrie says:

    I thought I read somewhere Burke mentioning that when he trades players or fires staff he makes sure to do it in person. Did he fly him to Boston to fire him in person?
    Also, I did not know Burky had a degree from Harvard. Now I know why he is so good to Boston. So how do we get a die hard Habs fan to GM another team to double our draft and trades???

  27. habs001 says:

    the leafs forward lineup for this game is much better than the habs…if the leafs are up to this game not sure our d can handle them…

    • joeybarrie says:

      Kessel and Lupul are better. But no one else. They have even less than us in that respect.
      Look at our last game against them.

    • Strummer says:

      Leafs have the same line-up as Feb. 11, 2012-
      They are a fragile team with shaky goaltending and team D

      ______________________________________________________
      “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

    • jedimyrmidon says:

      Their top line has been more productive that our top line, but our top line is nothing to sneeze at. And I trust Subban and Gorges to shut down their top line much more than their top D pairing to shut down our top line.

      Their second line is better than ours just because we don’t have Gionta and Cammalleri and Kostitsyn are now gone.

      At the moment, our 4th line is probably a better energy line because the Leafs sent Rosehill and Orr down to the minors (though they put Rosehill on re-entry waivers).

  28. HabinBurlington says:

    John Lu tweeted that Diaz is out tonight, 6 D 12 Forwards, LL and Enqvist in the lineup.

    Komisarek is in the Leaf lineup for tonight also, Franson and Colby Armstrong are the scratches.

  29. Ian Cobb says:

    The WINDS of change sweep into Montreal!
    There are going to be BLOW hards wearing blew in the Bell Center tonight!

    This is going to be a last man standing game! Buckle up!

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Always happy for a chance to post a song from one of my favourite bands of all time.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4RjJKxsamQ

      • Ian Cobb says:

        Gerald! thanks for that. I had not heard that song. But I loved Pink Floyd album Dark Side of the Moon. The only concert that I have been to ever was Floyd in Montreal years ago at the old Autostad
        Enjoy tonight my friend!

        • boing007 says:

          I went to an Alouettes game at the Autostade in the early 70s. A low scoring game, with lots of two and outs. Boring. Not a good first impression.
          Must say, though, that there was plenty of space there to build a better stadium. Let’s admit it, The Big O was too far away and Drapeau’s idea of revitalizing the East End never panned out.

          Richard R

        • HabinBurlington says:

          I was supposed to be in Montreal this weekend for the game, but the group I was going with were unable to attend. Had to tell the rep from Molsons who got us tickets to give to other people. Now i am really regretting that.

        • The Dude says:

          I was at that one too Ian…best concert I ever seen ..remember the extinguisher dudes putting out the lil fire’s all over the field as the stretcher guy’s we’re pulling passed out or tripping mescalin victims…And all during the full moon….THE BEST !

  30. jmsheehy19 says:

    Not sure if it’s been been mentioned, but Shawinigan is playing on VOX for anybody that wants to see Ellis and Bournival.

  31. Jardine17 says:

    who else wants to see staubitz kick the piss outta brown

    guarantee brown will not be running players like he usually does, or he will pay

    • Mattyleg says:

      Brown isn’t
      a) Big enough to run players
      b) on the ice enough to have any kind of impact

      Seeing our fighter fight their fighter doesn’t turn my crank.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Brown is fearless, like it or not Matty, Brown and either Staubitz or White will be fighting tonight. Every player in that Leaf dressing room will be expected to play their most physical game of the season.

        Burke has just been Re-Truculated with the hiring of the Stanosolol injected Carlyle as Coach.

    • boing007 says:

      As sung by Connie Francis: ‘you had your way, now you must pay…’

      Richard R

  32. aemarchand11 says:

    Edmonton Oilers fans are arguably the least educated fans in Canada.(Toronto is up there!) They have literally been the toilet of Canadian hockey for the past five years and have done NOTHING to deserve any credit. I’m somehow getting chirped for Montreal’s one bad season after consecutive post season appearances.

    Tanking is apparently a great way to build a team, as one tells me. “It worked for Pittsburgh (umm… Crosby – lottery pick may have had something to do with it..) chicago, washington.” Really? Its the way to build a team, i suppose Detroit should take note…? What a joke.

    I find it funny that fans have such a short memory, and the fact that just because the team is exciting, it now permits them to start chirping teams that at least know what the playoffs are.

    Their one and only chirp on Montreal.. “Scott Gomez”… Good one, its called AHL/Buy out next season, got to love that thing called playoff revenue in order to swallow shitty contract costs.

  33. jmsheehy19 says:

    Anybody have the link to the Goalie Mask Gallery that was posted the other day?

  34. HabsFan82 says:

    I heard Gomez and Palushaj were out with eye injuries. Hope the two they brought up can see the net.

  35. otter649 says:

    Last game Caryle coached was against Montreal & won 4-1 and then fired…….

  36. habsfan0 says:

    Randy Carlyle?? OMG! Does he speak French?

    • Mr. Biter says:

      Stop. This is Toronto. The east Indian community is up in arms as Caryle cannot converse with the Punjabi Announcers from CBC.

      Mr. Biter
      No Guts No Glory

      • habstrinifan says:

        Those “Punjabi” announcers earned their job and also be aware of all the east-indian money in broadcasting companies today.

        I dislike your post as I hope you may have gathered.

  37. boing007 says:

    Tanking is for losers. Edmonton is the biggest joke of an organization in hockey right now. Seriously? Three years in a row they are drafting top 2? They’re a joke! Someone should tell them that defensemen are part of the game too. Losers!

    Right. Kevin Lowe was a defenseman. He should know better.

    Richard R

  38. boing007 says:

    Go Habs Go! Render Cherry speechless.

    Richard R

  39. New says:

    The problem with the Canadiens is that they do not score. Good teams get about a goal a game more than they allow. On goals against the team would be middle of the pack, riding one goaltender and a largely rookie D. Impressive. One line has played together a lot. Not all the time, just a lot. Hard to figure out what your team mate is going to do if he hasn’t even practiced with you yet.

    I think as fans we see potential in the players. We get frustrated when a player doesn’t consistently achieve what we sense is possible. The players wouldn’t be in the NHL unless they had potential. Scott Bowman speaking of the Wings a few years ago made the observation “We are not a developmental team.” I think that is important. Ideally a NHL team should be composed of players at the crest of their game. That is not usually the case.

    The NHL is full of teams who have achieved nothing with high draft picks. For every Crosby there are 29 others. Key players never get to UFA status. There are very few blockbuster trades, and fewer ever change anything. Astute management of resources is very important off ice. Developing players are resources to be used for injury, succession, and improvements. Knowing what your team mates will do is as important on ice as knowing what your opponent will do. Then the goals go in. You win.

    Unfortunately the Canadiens find themselves a developmental team. Players need to play in pressure situations to gain confidence and improve. Conversely in pressure situations they will be opposed by non-developmental players. They will fail. Everyone looks bad when the team fails.

    Some players are good to have around even when their on ice performance has diminished. They know how to speak with players, know how hard they are trying, and teach them to be professionals. Knowing that their days are limited they “coach” the very person who will take their job away. That is the way of a hockey career.

    I am encouraged by the Canadiens lately. I loved the gritty play against Minnosota. I would much rather see a 2, a five, and a 10 for straightening out an attitude than a 2 for tripping. I want to watch a team that has each other’s back. High draft picks? Better but not the magic solution. One rut in the ice and a career is over. Fate is funny that way.

    Teams can win or lose boring hockey. I want firewagon hockey and for the first time in many years I think it may be returning to Montreal.

    • Bill says:

      The Habs scored plenty under Carbonneau. Then came Gainey’s makeover: Koivu and Kovalev out, Gomez, Gionta, and Cammalleri in, Jacques behind the bench. They’ve struggled offensively ever since.

      This year the Habs are scoring just as much as they have since Martin took over. They just aren’t doing anything on the powerplay, the special teams differential is killing them.

      Montreal Canadiens hockey is supposed to be fast, exciting, and high-scoring. There are very few teams like that now though: sad to say Boston is one of them!

      Montreal is just one of the many mediocre, parity-league teams that doesn’t have the guns to run. Haha, mediocre is pushing it this year, I guess.

      Full Breezer 4 Life

  40. manu07 says:

    I also liked Paul Maurice, but the pressure seemed to affect him in Toronto, so I could only imagine what a disaster it would be In Montreal if he became coach. I think it definitely takes a certain type of person to coach in these Markets.

  41. Shane1313 says:

    What about Paul Maurice ?
    I always liked him even when he coached the leafs.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Even with High Def Pancake #3 facial cover , that guy grew bags under his eyes 2nd to none during his time in Toronto.

      Aside from that I think he is a good teaching coach, but not above average. He had his chance with that Carolina squad and the very next year Laviolette took that team to the cup. Nice guy, but perhaps a case where nice guys don’t always finish first.

  42. RGM says:

    Carey Price will be unveiling a special one-time mask for tonight’s game. The design was done by a fan (Clorox Blanchissage contest) and then applied to the mask by (as usual) the great David Arrigo – after the game the mask will be auctioned off at Legends Depot with 100% of the proceeds going to the Montreal Children’s Hospital! Check it out here!
    http://bit.ly/CP31msk

    And cue the usual comments from the peanut gallery who talk about how Carey needs to spend more effort stopping pucks than doing things for charity and making new masks and blah blah blah.

    ———————–
    GO HABS GO! 2011-12 is probably not our year!
    “Scott Gomez is an elite NHL player” – VancouverHab

    Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

  43. Mavid says:

    their building is pretty much filled with fans of any other team..I find this amazing..Leaf/Habs I could see, there are alot still here, and its close..but it doesn’t matter who they play..a couple of years ago I went to a Coyote’s game..the place was full of Coyote fans…and of course the customary Leaf/Hab fan..just to piss them off…last weekend I was at the Bruins game..tons and tons of Bruin fans cheering louder than the Sens fans at times…the friggen Bruins..common they don’t have anyone to blame but themselves..

  44. HabsFan82 says:

    The Habs problem we have maybe 4-good scores the rest is average or below. Never gonna win a cup like that.
    bring in some scores and we’ll start moving up the ladder until this happens we’ll always be a average or below team. we have good games now with next to nothing just imagine if we had more scores. we would compete for the cup every year. hope management whom ever it maybe can turn things around. it would be nice to see the real Montreal Canadiens again.

  45. Propwash says:

    Hi-Def is now installed on my livingroom TV.
    Bring on dem buds!

    _____________________________
    Don’t let the wultures getcha.

  46. Strummer says:

    All I can say about tonight is
    I remember Feb. 11, 2012
    Habs 5 Laffs 0
    Sieve goalies.
    Eller undressing pylon Phaneuf
    ______________________________________________________
    “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

  47. habs17 says:

    we will probably lose tonite. Wont be able to match the leafs itensisty oh well losing is not a bad thing for us right now

    http://www.scottygomezfoundation.com/
    President of the Scott Gomez Fan Club

    (I support Scott Gomez)

  48. homerbowen says:

    As a resident of the Toronto area, and past president of the Laff Haters Club, it is so obvious how much the Toronto media controls hockey decisions. First, when Wilson was hired he stood up to the media and they called him arragant and the hate for him was on which culminated last night with his departure. The Toronto Sports Network (aka TSN) are made up of Leaf butt kissing fans and the CBC what more can I say. Even Sportsnet (soon to be part owner of the laffs) are made up of cheerleading leaf fans with the one exception being Bob McCowan, the only one with balls at the FAN 560. The media “love in” with the laffs will continue but my hex” put on the laffs in 1968 stands. Next to go is Brian (I know everything) Burke, but so far leaf media is afraid of him. Go Habs Go

  49. Mavid says:

    well the big stink here now is that Dalton is talking about taking away the tax credit they get for smoozing clients in those fancy ass boxes..the prez of the Sens has been saying that if this goes through the team is done..they only start to make a profit at the second round of the playoffs..and of course it won’t hurt the leafs much..because..guess what they make money..again the goofs around here think is some kind of conspiracy theory to rid ontairo of those pesky sens..and move a team to Hamilton..never seen a bunch of people so obsessed with another team..to me if they had better fans who spent more time supporting their own team instead of worrying about what the Leafs are doing maybe they would actually fill the building with Sens fans and just maybe make a profit..this crap about being a small market..bull..there is over a million people in Ottawa and the surrounding area, more than enough to sell out every night..personally I would not be broke hearted if the left..other that its nice and close to go watch the Habs..

  50. kholdstare says:

    I wasnt really concerned or bothered by the fact the Habs play the Leafs tonight, right up until Brian Burke thinks he is a smart guy and fires his coach. If we win all is good, but if, now god forbid, if we lose we will have to here of the masters brilliance and that they are destined to exit this funk sweep into the playoffs and fix the righted high sticking wrongs of 1993. I dont think I could handle it.

  51. Mavid says:

    taking my wife to IKEA..really..well I get dragged to Princess Auto..so suck it up…although IKEA is 10X the size of Princess Auto..it is still very painful…thank god they have a board wives area were I can play on my Ipad…

    I am off to Le Cage Aux Sport tonight to catch the game..and seing that is for my birthday dragging my sons and their wives along for the ride…should be a blast!!

    • kholdstare says:

      Happy Birthday! When I walk into IKEA with the wife I like looking at the other joes as we walk in, we all have that same look in our eyes….incredible boredom mixed with how much is this gonna cost me?

      It’s also fun on the way out everyone is thankful they got out alive but everyone is looking at the reciept going how the hell did I end up spending that when I went in for one shelf?

      • Marc10 says:

        And then you have to assemble the thing…

        Or they have a missing part so you have to go back to pick it up!

        Kill me. Kill me now…

        • kholdstare says:

          lol yes the missing piece, you cant help but think of person laughing as they pack the box and throw away the one piece “oops enjoy the return trip to hell” .

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Mavid, I posted this below but the story might bare repeating. I went purse shopping with my wife once. After two hours a store clerk came up to me and asked, “may I help you with anything Sir?” I replied, Can you kill me? I’ll give you a permission slip. :)

    • Cal says:

      Isn’t IKEA Swedish for “cheap crap”? ;)

    • Strummer says:

      Ahhh- Ikea meatballs ….

      ______________________________________________________
      “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

  52. Mavid says:

    @smiler I feel your pain..except here you replace Leaf fans with Sens fans..I have been getting crapped on for years..and told how those 24 cups mean nothing because of the french canadien rule..or there were only six teams..or any number of repeated excuses..yet they have won nothing..if we lose tonight they are the ones that will be giving me flack..not the Leaf fans..hate yes…i totally understand..

    • kholdstare says:

      The only thing worse to me than a leafs fan is a Sens fan. I always ask Sens fans who they cheered for before the Sens existed, and its always Montreal or Toronto. The only people I respect as Sens fans are the kids who had them ever since otherwise to me you are just a sellout.

    • smiler2729 says:

      It’s the old “don’t hate me because I’m beautiful”

      __________________________________
      Jack Edwards is a clam, Bruins are pukes.

  53. Hobie Hansen says:

    I feel bad for Wilson. He must have aged twice as fast coaching the Leafs for the last 3 years. The media and fans have been very tough on him. I kept wondering how much more abuse can this guy take?

    There’s a few different issues facing the Leafs and Canadiens but overall they’re about the same caliber of club. Unfortunately for the Leafs and Wilson their goaltending has been brutal and even if the team plays well they’re still losing games as a result.

  54. Old Bald Bird says:

    Just read Stubbs on Reimer. Even he is using the hackneyed “thrown under the bus” phrase, which was pretty good the first few thousand times that I heard it. I dunno, “tied to the tracks” for a change? Help me out here.

  55. smiler2729 says:

    The World’s Most Important Press Conference is on…

    Maybe Burke should use a clip-on tie…

    __________________________________
    Jack Edwards is a clam, Bruins are pukes.

  56. HabinBurlington says:

    I must be a glutton for punishment, I am watching the Leafs Press Conference, someone help me please…

  57. smiler2729 says:

    Being a transplanted Montrealer here in southern Ontario, I’ve had to read, watch and listen to Leaf Nation crap for almost 20 years.

    Arriving here in late ’87, I had no hatred toward the Leafs, they were just a chronic losing team in the vein of the Seals and Caps of the ’70s and Devils and Wings of the early ’80s.

    I did, however, get an earful as soon as anybody found out I was a Montrealer with the prevaling sentiment being “oh, you’re from Montreal? I hate the Habs and I hope you guys separate”.

    Their hatred of anything Habs is just pure envy in disguise but whatever. I watched as the Laffs pretty much went for any kind of ex-Canadiens to help right their ship (Fletcher, Burns, Corson, Tucker, Hoglund LOL to name a few, hell even Pat Quinn’s initials reeked of La Belle Province) and had to endure endless pie-in-the-sky predictions of the Cup rightfully returning to its proper home… They’ve made me absolutely HATE anything Toronto Maple Leafs.

    But being a sports fan, I endured it all and have come to know their hockey team as much as my own and see ‘em through a different set of eyes.

    Brian Burke has absolutely no clue on how to build a winner (Phil Kessel for Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton?), he overrates his players especially his goalies and his replacing Wilson with Carlyle is the final nail in his GM coffin, it’s a same sh*t, different pile situation.

    So as the world’s most important hockey GM hires the world’s new most important hockey coach on the eve of the world’s most important hockey team’s most important game, the world’s most important media descend on all of us and show us all just what it means to be, in actuality, the world’s most mediocre joke of a hockey franchise ever.

    Here’s hoping the smashmouth-take-no-bull Habs of Thursday show up bigger than ever tonight to shove their crap right back into their faces on the big stage of HNIC which they also think they own.

    Please hockey gods, make it so.
    _________________________________
    Jack Edwards is a clam, Bruins are pukes.

    • kholdstare says:

      I agree, I think winning at this point is futile but if they destroy the Leafs it will make me smile. I also disagree with Brian Burke assesment, I think he is a brilliant man and doing very well keeping the Leafs right where they belong. In fact he deserves a raise.

      • smiler2729 says:

        Yeah, that’s kind of why I didn’t want to see Wilson fired… keeping the suck going since ’67.

        __________________________________
        Jack Edwards is a clam, Bruins are pukes.

    • Marc10 says:

      I feel your pain.

      Leaf fans have no shame. You’d be like a bright beacon of civilization amid the great unwashed over there.

      • smiler2729 says:

        There are, from what I’ve read, about a quarter of a million ex-Montrealers in Toronto.
        __________________________________
        Jack Edwards is a clam, Bruins are pukes.

        • Marc10 says:

          I used to be one of them… Now I’m Down Under listening to neophytes who got into hockey as the Wings were starting their 17 years of consecutive playoffs/3 Cups and counting ascendency… Guess what I have to listen to?

          Ken Holland… Blah, blah, blah… Jimmy D… blah, blah, blah… Except Wing Fans unlike Leaf Fans have every reason to crow. It doesn’t make it any easier on the ears though.

          • smiler2729 says:

            There are other hockey fans there??

            __________________________________
            Jack Edwards is a clam, Bruins are pukes.

        • Habtastic says:

          Well I’m one of them. So relate to the posts concerning not hating them as much until you have to live among them. I’m gunning for 29th, but I definitely want to win tonight. Have to say though, I’m a little worried Carlyle is actually a decent coach and will probably make them much better. Good move for them. Please convince me otherwise.

          ————–
          The Drive for 25

          • smiler2729 says:

            Burke thinks Carlyle’s the key to a Laffs Cup win… ’nuff said.

            __________________________________
            Jack Edwards is a clam, Bruins are pukes.

        • Marc10 says:

          Yep… A couple of rinks around Sydney. Tons of kids play and of course us old timers.

          Every now and again my kid comes to the games decked out in her Habs PK shirt. She gets a lot of compliments once they see the number/name on the back.

  58. Strummer says:

    It’s hard to see what the Habs will be in for tonight.

    Teams quite often get a spike in performance when there is a coaching change, though it didn’t happen here or in Carolina immediately.
    It was a different story in Anaheim where the team responded well to Boudreau after Carlyle was shown the door.

    Hopefully our guys will build on the Feb. 11 ass-kicking.
    “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

  59. twilighthours says:

    Did anyone read stubbs’ article on Burke and moneyball? Sure puts the whole “advanced metrics” stuff into perspective.

    That stuff is completely overrated. I wish the Gomez supporters would read that article (and then get out and and actually play/coach hockey so they can learn about the sport for real).

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Besides that troll guy, are there any Gomez supporters left?

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Scotts Mother, his agent and his entourage I think.

      • twilighthours says:

        Which troll, habs17 or Vancouverhab?

        And I suspect there are a few more. Anyway, there’s a small cult of people who worship at the altar of these ‘stats’ and – as Burke pointed out – they have yet to help build a winner.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          I will admit, that going into this season I thought Gomez could have a bounceback season. Granted, no matter the bounce he was never going to live up that contract. I don’t know what happened on that flight from Anchorage to Montreal this past summer but at the very least he picked up some bad Karma. His initial injuries in camp just put him right back on the wrong side of the tracks.

          I didn’t want to admit that perhaps his career was over, but I just don’t see it ever turning around, at least not here in Montreal. He really needs to go to a team where the fans don’t even know the league has a salary cap, like Phoenix or Columbus. I don’t feel bad for Scott, but I do feel bad for BG.

          • twilighthours says:

            I would happily take the 09-10 Gomez back in a heartbeat. Not worth his salary but a very effective player.

            This new Scott gomez is totally worthless. There’s no indication or valid measurement that indicates he will ever be effective again.

            BG gambled and lost.

            Unfortunately we are left to be fans of the mess.

          • kholdstare says:

            Scott Gomez has to change his culture of thinking. He is no longer a top 6 forward, that is done, never to return. If he accepts a lesser role and works on the overall game he might turn it around. Right now he is trying too hard to make the great offensive play. He can skate, gain the offensive zone but he is still trying to put up those numbers that have long since fallen from his ability. I dont think he can turn it around, he is a proud guy, so we are stuck with a highly ineffective piece to the puzzle. I think if you could somehow get Gomez to change his game he could be useful.

            It amounts to getting a square peg through a round hole at this point.

        • Habfan10912 says:

          Yes I was thinking of 17. Not sure Vancouver is a troll though.

        • Habtastic says:

          Basically the same as posted above. I thought he’d have a bounceback year cuz he really is (used to be) a muchhh better player and the team sort of imploded all at once. He’s the obvious scapegoat. I don’t necessarily want him on the team IF we can bury the salary, but I don’t think he’s as awful as he’s made out to be. With the right makeup, he could be useful. We’ll look back two years from now and thank all those who contributed to our impending offseason acquisition. Just gotta keep playing Scotty and Campoli more and make sure Pleks doesn’t get to play with anyone who can score. Also, Budaj please!

          ————–
          The Drive for 25

      • smiler2729 says:

        I like him but I’ve given up on him.

        The contract made him rich but killed his career. “What made Milwaukee famous has made a loser out of me”, sing it Scott.

        __________________________________
        Jack Edwards is a clam, Bruins are pukes.

      • gumper says:

        Don’t know if I’d call myself a supporter, but here’s what I think should, and probably will happen with Gomer, going forward. Next year, under new management and coaching, he’ll be given the opportunity to win a spot, coming into camp. If he makes the team, he’ll be given the opportunity to earn back minutes of TOI. If he can show the new coach something, he’ll stick, if not he’ll either be bought out or sent down. The other possibility is that he’ll be bought out this summer before FA opens up. Probably because I’m old school, and a bit of a sap for the older players, I hope he gets one more chance under a new coaching system.

    • Bill says:

      I don’t know about advanced “metrics” or whatever, but let’s bear in mind that Burke is a dinosaur and a moron who obviously has no sweet clue how to build a hockey team

      I’d like to hear a smart GM dismiss it before I do.

      Full Breezer 4 Life

      • twilighthours says:

        Well, he is a recent Stanley cup winner.

        • Bill says:

          Even Burke would have to acknowledge – as most observers do – that it wasn’t really “his” team. He’d only been on the job for a year. His big moves were picking up Niedermayer and Pronger, and those were great moves, but the rest of the team was built primarily by Murray, and it was an excellent group.

          Full Breezer 4 Life

    • neumann103 says:

      Moneyball has inifinitely greater applicability in baseball than any other sport for several reasons:

      The single threaded nature of the game makes compiling statistics possible. A complex and continuous game like hockey or basketball makes gathering metrics very complicated and of questionable merit.

      Think about a baseball play. From a dead stop, you have a pitching event, a hitting event, a fielding event, maybe a running event and then things come to a full stop.

      Compare that to hockey with 12 players active simultaneously and interdependent. I mean even such seemingly simple stats like Faceoff % are close to nonsense. In reality the plurality of faceoffs are scrambles with no clear winner.

      The other thing that makes it some element of “meh” is that the real value of moneyball is establishing players whose objective performance is better than the subjective assessment. Meaning things like:
      players you should re-sign cheap because they are not in demand
      players that you can sign as free agents who are undervalued.

      But more significantly:
      players you could trade for who are undervalued (and potentially assets you could deal who are overvalued)
      the vast network of minor league teams and their players as a talent pool.

      In hockey the occasional David Desharnais does happen. But in baseball it is more possible to discretely identify a David Desharnais type hidden gem,
      you can evaluate his individual statistics better in baseball,
      the traditional baseball prejudices are at least as bad as in hockey,
      the minor leagues are much more exhaustively measured,
      when you find such a player he is more likely to be unsigned,
      and even if he is signed in baseball they still occasionally have a trade or two. The “Money” part of Moneyball really relies on willingness of other teams to move players that are paid significantly different than their analytic measurements suggest is appropriate.

      I have long lamented what I call the “baseballization of sports” where people try to cram the game into meaningless “stats” that everyone then interprets as deterministic. Any of you fans of boxing consider punch stats which might as well be done by a random number generator.

      I am all in favour of analytics. But it is one of those areas where a little knowledge can actually be a bad thing. And in the modern no trade NHL even if you have this knowledge you may not be able to do much with it.

      “Et le but!”

  60. habstrinifan says:

    Not gonna join in the Burke bashing etc.. bash the Leafs though. No second-guessing other GMs coaches etc UNTIL we get our house in order. Not gonna let PG/BG/Molson get away that easy.

    • twilighthours says:

      I think Burke is a good GM. His downfall is that he didn’t get a real goalie.

      I also thinks it speaks to how hard it is to build a great team in the NHL. Burke did some great things and his team still stinks.

      It’s tough to win.

      • Habfan10912 says:

        GM’s tenure seem to be defined by that one big move. We know what Gainey’s was and for Burke it was the trading of 757 draft picks for a good, not great, player. I think that move set the organization back. Probably end up being a fire-able offense.

        • twilighthours says:

          See I think the kessel deal isn’t a bad one. Sequin may never be the goal scorer that kessel is. Anyway, any harm done by that deal is more than offset by the kaberle deal, which as a gift for the leafs.

          His signature deal, in my opinion, is the phaneuf deal. They get a legit #1 d-man for a bunch of spare parts.

          • Habfan10912 says:

            And Dougie Hamilton? Yes, the Phnanef deal was a big one too. Hadn’t thought of that. Maybe two defined moves?

          • habsguy says:

            ask the stanley cup champs if they think it was a good deal. The bruins won the cup without him, the Laffs still suck with him. Phaneuf, the most over rated player in the NHL, as voted by the players, living near toronto I have to watch them alot, and after keying on him, I see what they mean, he is awful !!!!!…although you are right, he did come cheap!!!, not a bad trade I guess.

          • PEC Hab says:

            Check out Ian White’s stats for his career and most notably with Detroit. Hardly a spare part. Might benefit from playing in Detroit for sure, but if he had exactly the same play and stats, but stood 6’2″ people would be in love with him. He gets the job done, period. People are in love with size, but it doesn’t always seem to matter if the heart is big.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          You are correct James, GM’s tend to be judged by their biggest move, regardless of the many other moves.

          Burke has made many good trades as a GM for the Leafs, but in my opinion he did them in the wrong order. When he first arrived in T.O. I think he overestimated the talent on that squad. He moved immediately and made that big trade, 2 firsts and a second for Kessel. Problem was, that is a move typically made by a GM as the final piece to put the team over the top. The addition of that scorer to the lineup. Reality was, the team was still in rebuild mode, his follow up moves (trade wise) were excellent in rebuilding the squad and depth moves. Things like acquiring Phaneuf, Aulie from Calgary while dispatching spare parts. Then moving Kaberle for Colborne, moving Lebda for Franson and Lombardi, and moving Beauchemin for Gardener (perhaps his best move).

          But all those moves were towards building a better young team and organizational depth.

          I think Burke has many attributes to make him a good GM, but his ego may ultimately be what prevents him from truly succeeding in T.O. That Ego made him make that first big splash, as if to say, look I can turn this team around in one fell swoop. That swoop may have been one fell Swoosh.

          • Habfan10912 says:

            Everybody on this blog is so much damn smarter then me but I’m always learning stuff. Thanks Gerald and enjoy your weekend. You going to your buddies bar to hassle Leaf fans tonight?

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Haha, not sure where you get the smarter comment from, I think what is great about this site is we get to see so many different perspectives that often, we don’t consider.

            Not sure about where I am watching game, Big games like this I tend to enjoy watching at home, so I don’t miss any of the little plays.

            Enjoy your weekend as well, you getting together with Chris for the game?

          • twilighthours says:

            That’s how is see it. Mind you, for all the good things I think I have seen Burke do, the team still hasn’t made the playoffs and I believe j ferg junior had a better overall record.

            Tough one.

            But I still think Burke has done a generally good job.

          • LafleurGuy says:

            Hab10912, your modesty is admirable but it goes without saying, but I’m gonna say it, not everybody. Seriously.

            “May you live in interesting times.”

          • Habfan10912 says:

            @Burl Chris has to work tonight. We went to a fishing expo yesterday so we both are ready to switch to fishing mode.

          • neumann103 says:

            Gerald,

            Agreed. I recall being surprised at the Kessel deal because I interpreted it as adding a one dimensional pure goal scorer to a bad team. I mean if it was the 2012 NY Rangers or Predators giving up draft picks for Kessel that would make sense.

            Likewise I think the Phaneuf deal, regardless of how overpaid you think Dion is or how many steps below Elite #1 D you think he is was highway robbery. I was slack jawed at the time at how little Burke gave up.

            I took a lot of heat a few days back for suggesting here that Burke was a better than average GM. Not objectively all that great but not a laughingstock like Howson who you wonder “how did he get this job?”, or a demonstrated incompetent like Tambellini about whom you wonder “why does he still have a job?.

            I don’t particularly like Burke’s style, I would not want him for the Habs. He is to my mind not one of the top tier like Holland, Poile, Devellano, nor even the next tier after that. But I would not question his basic competence or qualification to hold a GM position in the NHL.

            “Et le but!”

      • savethepuck says:

        Not his fault,”He didn’t get a real goalie”. Isn’t that the GMs job?

        “They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
        Carey Price

      • boing007 says:

        Phaneuf has been inconsistent, as a Captain and as a defense specialist.

        Richard R

  61. habstrinifan says:

    I am pumped for this game tonight… WOW! If we lose ths or play like WIMPS I will be bleddy ornery. This is the type of game that a legend like Geoffrion would have been front and centre… not taking SH@@@ from Smythe’s team. So I hope Blake Geoffrion is reading some leters from his Grandpa as game preparation.

    Blake does seem like he has the feisty in him like his grandpa.

    By the way doing my pregame penance myself… taking wife to IKEA… yes IKEA for the entire freaking day I think.

    Any major developments.. like another firing (you know who) please give me a shout-out.. I can be reached at KEA somewhere on Pinecrest St Ottawa… I will be the one shadowing boxing. and mouthing GO HABS GO!

    • The Cat says:

      Ive taken my wife to the gigantic Ikea in Boucherville , I feel your pain.

      [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

    • SmartDog says:

      My wife got lost in IKEA once.

      I had to send a search party. Found her sleeping in one of the demonstration bedrooms hugging a giant stuffed tiger and speaking Swedish. Dangerous place.

      ————————————-
      Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • Habfan10912 says:

      You are in my thoughts and prayers. :)

    • Marc10 says:

      IKEA is a great way to test a relationship. If you and your significant other make it through in one piece, you know your partner is a keeper. That relationship has been through the wars, it’s been battle tested.

      God speed.

      • Habfan10912 says:

        LOL. Went purse shopping once with my wife. After two hours I had a store clerk ask me, “do you need help with anything sir?” I quickly replied, please kill me. :)

  62. JF says:

    I feel sorry for James Reimer these days. He was a hero this time last year; now everyone is throwing him under the bus. It was sheer stupidity on Brian Burke’s part not to sign a veteran goaltender in the off-season to back up his two young guys. It’s almost a given that a young goaltender will struggle in his second year in the NHL – see Carey Price, Cam Ward, Marc-André Fleury, and any number of others.

    More stupidity on Burke’s part: turning down the opportunity to grab four first-rounders at the trade deadline (if it’s really true that he had that chance). Unbelievable.

    • Clay says:

      I’m not sold on the fact he was offered 4 first rounders…I think Kessel may be the only player on that team worth one. Maybe he was offered a first for him by 4 separate teams.
      Lots of stupidity to go around between Burke and PG though. If those two had a ‘stupid-off’ I’m not sure who would win that one. :)

      __________________________
      ☞ If I agreed with you we’d both be wrong. ☜

    • Strummer says:

      It’s not fair to compare Reimer to Price, Ward or Fleury.
      These guys were top-rated goalies coming in and were top 5 draft picks.

      Reimer was a 4th rounder who spent time in the ECHL.

      I agree Burke was too quick to annoint Gustavson and Reimer as his starters considering there was no pedigree in either.

      ______________________________________________________
      “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

      • JF says:

        I’m not comparing them, just saying that Reimer was put into a situation where he was almost bound to fail, at least in the short term. There’s nothing to show he won’t be a good, consistent goaltender in a few years. But it takes time, even for a top-rated goalie.

    • Habtastic says:

      But don’t expect Cherry to do what he always does to us, i.e. paints the ENTIRE Habs fanbase as hating Koivu, hating Halak, hating Price, etc. Then when they prove to be playing well (as they all have) he goes on a rant about how everyone in MTL wanted to run these guys out of town. So essentially taking shots at all of us rather than mispronouncing a player’s name.

      He’ll probably make some vague prediction like “You listen ta me, this Reimer kid is gonna bounce back and you’ll remember that I said he would”.

      cut to him winning 4 games in 6 at some point in his career (followed by abysmal performances later) and Cherry pulling his “see I told ya!”

      ————–
      The Drive for 25

  63. aj says:

    Geoffrion, Leblanc, Engqvist. How about they could call Jonas Nattinen.

    With all these injuries happening, the Habs are turning into the “Montreal Bulldogs!”

    • 24 Cups says:

      Engqvist = 18/16/34/8PPG

      Nattinen = 7/8/15/2PPG

      Tie goes to the guy who can (in theory) put up some offense.

      • aj says:

        Well Geoffrion and Nattinen were doing well when they were teamed up in Hamilton. Since Engqvist has been called up for tonight’s game, they might as well put some extra offence (assuming of course if another injury will come again).

        The Habs could use the Engqvist – Geoffrion – Nattinen line.

        • Habfan10912 says:

          aj – agree but IMHO Engqvist needs to be a gritty player because his potential career as an NHL player seems to be as a 4th liner. Or he can take over Gomez’s position. Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

    • Strummer says:

      I hope Engqvist is ready this time.
      Last time he was called up he was invisible.

      ______________________________________________________
      “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

  64. 24 Cups says:

    - so Mr. Smiley finally gets the axe after being a dead man walking for the past two weeks. There’s certainly no love lost in Toronto over a man who reeks of an arrogant, condescending persona. It was open warfare here in Toronto in terms of Wilson and the media.

    - Randy Carlyle is a no-nonsense type of guy who will be very demanding of his players. He’s also 2nd to only Mike Babcock in terms of playoff victories (36) in the post lockout era so he can produce results.

    - many people thought that Burke should go with Marlie coach, Dallas Eakins. Eakins is a progressive thinker who would have been a perfect fit for a team that has one of the NHL’s youngest rosters. The entire roster is basically 30 and under. Oh well, Burkie is old school, through and through.

    - Jeffrey Lupul was seen at the hotel bar late last night (Toronto Star) as he contemplated the return of his former coach. It was open warfare between those two in Anaheim.

    - Brian Burke has made some good deals as of late in terms of transactions with Anaheim, Boston, Colorado, Nashville and Calgary. The jury is still out on the Kessel deal but at least he’s in the top ten scorers. Burke’s main Achilles Heel has been his UFA signings. Armstrong, Connolly, MacArthur, Orr, Finger and Komisarek have all been less than spectacular.

    - there also is the issue of goaltending. When it’s all said and done, that is what has led to the present laff meltdown which sees them getting just 3 out of 22 points in their last 11 games. The two goalies have given up 45 goals in those eleven games. Who knows, maybe even Brad Staubitz might even score a goal.

    - as good as the laffs were at the beginning of the season, they now sit at the exact point total (65) as they did last year. Reality states that the real playoff fight is now a battle over two spots with Washington, Winnipeg and Florida being the main combatants in the race. Toronto would have to somehow leap frog over Buffalo and Tampa just to get close to the three teams listed. That’s a tough hill to climb when you are in free fall and don’t have a goalie.

    - Carey Price should make the difference tonight although I fear that Toronto will be doing some head-hunting when it comes to Habs like DD and Subban. The rivalry has long been dead, especially now seeing that both teams are not even able to make the playoffs. However, we will all be glued to our seats tonight even if it means having to listen to Chuckles Cherry. The obsession with Hab-Leaf games is a constant reminder to never dabble in crack cocaine. These contests (along with Hab-Bruin games) are the “monkey-on-the-back” that HI/O fans just can’t seem to shake.

    – the Ontario LCBO has a new Vintages release today featuring a lovely Irish whiskey called “Writers’ Tears” (#271106/$48/93 points). The only question left is will these be tears of joy or sadness once the headmaster finishes his game time blog.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Steve, what I find interesting about the Toronto situation is that this may be the only coach Burke gets to hire. If it is true indeed that Cliff Fletcher hired Wilson (widely speculated that MLSE was in conversation with Burke at that point and he indicated Wilson should be hired) then this is the first coach Burke has hired. Burke also gave Carlyle a 3 year deal in this hire. In theory, if this current Leafs edition were to not make the playoffs this year and next, it is plausible that Burke could be let go. If so, would be intriguing that a guy with that much power at the helm of the Leaf ship would have only had 1 chance to hire the right coach.

      I say all this in light of the timing of this potential one time hiring. For Burke’s sake, he better have gotten it right.

      • 24 Cups says:

        Gerald – I would have gone with Eakins. Toronto is such a young team and has good kids in the pipeline. Instead of developing young players, I can easily see Carlyle moving to a win at all costs mentality in order to just make the playoffs as the 7th or 8th seed (paging Coach Martin).

        This is the exact challenge that Montreal will face in another six weeks. Not to mention that our version of Eakins has to also speak French. If the Habs sign Crawford or Hartley, you will know we have gone down the Burke/Carlyle road.

    • habstrinifan says:

      Love this post. Nice conversational style writing/reading!

      Agree re the Leafs would be doing some headhunting tonight.. wish we had added a Convoy from Hamilton for protection.. or whoever is in HAM like that instead of the usual Palushaj and Enqvist.

    • Strummer says:

      Burke didn’t sign Finger.
      That was Fletcher.
      Burke did show some balls though and dispatch him to the minors for cap releif.

      ______________________________________________________
      “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

      • 24 Cups says:

        I remember that signing, in fact the Leaf brass may have got the names mixed up if I recall.

        I think that Burke was indirectly on the scene even before he signed his contract. I can’t see that Fletcher signed Wilson without having it go past Burke. Burke was ready to be hired but there was some hang-up which stalled the move. I can’t recall the details.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          You are correct Steve, there was a ton of speculation that Fletcher was indeed put in charge to clean up JFJ’s mess prior to Burke’s arrival. But the speculation was rampant that Burke was indeed giving Fletcher his advice on what moves to make. Obviously never proven, but widely held by most sportswriters here in the city that Burke indeed told the Leafs to hire Wilson. The Finger details, i don’t recall either.

        • Strummer says:

          Finger was signed on July 1, 2008 and Burke was still GM in Anaheim until November. Would that not be tampering?
          Also why would Burke send Finger to the minors if it was his idea to sign him in the first place?

          ______________________________________________________
          “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

          • Bill says:

            Why would he fire Wilson after he gave him an extension in the first place?

            Burke is really good at shifting blame :)

            Full Breezer 4 Life

    • aj says:

      “Randy Carlyle is a no-nonsense type of guy who will be very demanding of his players.”

      It all depends on how the players will handle his ‘no-nonsense’ approach. Jacques Martin tried to be that type of coach but it backfired. If you’re a coach and you’re trying to sell a ‘so-called’ effective hockey system, but if you’re not that good on the PR side, your players are not going to like you. They may not even buy to your system.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      As usual 24 your post is dead on. I’ m always amazed at how players Luke DD and St. Louis never seem to get hit hard. I think DD has that elusive “whatever it is” and does in fact have a swivel type head. For me I always root fir a Habs victory (sorry HH) but the thought of a high draft pick does ease the pain. Thanks for the post and enjoy your weekend.

    • smiler2729 says:

      If a Leaf falls in the standings, does anybody care?
      __________________________________
      Jack Edwards is a clam, Bruins are pukes.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Thanks Gerald. Similar to 24′s thinking. Maybe 24 is Bruce Arthur? Although I kind of like 24′s post better but I might be prejudiced a bit. :)

  65. If these Habs want to be Canadiens they’ll not only beat the Leafs, they have to embarrass them.

    It’s all great that the fans on Montreal get to suffer together, but out here in the real world, we have to put up with every fan.

    So go out there and win. You can afford to beat these losers a couple more times.

    As for losing, you all know where I stand. You play out the season and do the best you can, then you draft the best player available and start again next season.

    Tanking is for losers. Edmonton is the biggest joke of an organization in hockey right now. Seriously? Three years in a row they are drafting top 2? They’re a joke! Someone should tell them that defensemen are part of the game too. Losers!

    You may as well have the top AHL team move up an replace them so it makes the division more entertaining.

    Gonna be a great day. Matthew’s cities start today, and the Habs play the Laffs tonight.

    Go Habs Go

    CAREY CAREY CAREY

    2012 Team Canada Goalie

    They Call Me Shane
    “They never asked to be Canadiens, they were Chosen.”
    Shane Oliver
    Twitter @Sholi2000
    http://www.Sholi2000.com
    Custom Sports Figures

    • habstrinifan says:

      Yeah shiloh nothing short of an old-time Canadiens beatdown on those Leafs is required tonight.

      • +1,000,000

        Has to be done, I’m getting hammered here in Brandon by Bruins and Leafs fans. This town is so original six it’s not funny. The kids are slowly turning to the Jets, but the parents and grandparents will never change.

        hehe and I’m not shiloh, we are two completely different fans, and I’m better looking!

        They Call Me Shane
        “They never asked to be Canadiens, they were Chosen.”
        Shane Oliver
        Twitter @Sholi2000
        http://www.Sholi2000.com
        Custom Sports Figures

  66. HabinBurlington says:

    Perhaps the Habs should come out to this song tonight.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkEU3JjNARs&feature=related

    Something from The Boss

  67. Bigdawg says:

    Eller

    Seems like lots of people like to prasie DD (me) or bash him in some way, like “he could never be a #1 because…”
    and
    lots of people talk about Plex, as in its time to trade him or no, keep him he is still a premier 2 way center (me).
    but
    There is nowehere near as much scrutiny for Eller. What have you done for me lately Eddy?? I mean Eller. I look at where he is as right now 146 games 42 points 22year old – you people think that is good???

    I tried to find some comparables of older players that have been successful being where Eller is after roughly 142 games. Its not easy so that means Eller’s window of becoming a top 2 center is fading fast but I did find:

    Ryan Kesler on VAN – same height 6-2 4lbs more and 5 years older. After 158 games, he had 44 points.

    Does Eller have the ability to be as good or better than Kesler or are we looking at Eller as being an ok 3rd line center at best?

    • Cal says:

      3rd line shut down with a little offense. That’s about it. I like his work ethic, but he doesn’t have the vision to be a #2 or #1 center.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      It is still early as he is only 22. I think he should have had another. Season in the ahl last year playing more minutes. Right now he looks like a solid 3rd line Centre but who knows.

      “Like Canadian Hip hop..check us out http://www.groovecontrolmusic.com

    • twilighthours says:

      Man I posted basically the same thing and got roasted by the long-gone Andrew Berkshire. Maybe Eller will be a solid #2. So far has given little indication he will ever be as good as plekanec. I like the kid and his raw talent but he needs to actually learn the game.

  68. 24 Cups says:

    I get the feeling the laffs under Carlyle will be head-hunting for guys such as DD and Subban. It could be ugly tonight.

  69. Le Jadester says:

    I believe you are both correct in your assessments !

    Habs, OLE !

  70. mb says:

    +1

    Everyone knows he’s not top 6 material, but he’s a very good addition to the team.

  71. punkster says:

    Along with Pleks one of the hardest workers on the team all zones at all times.

    ***Subbang Baby!!!***

  72. jedimyrmidon says:

    Agreed. He plays like a professional should, and he does what he is supposed to be doing. The only reason he starts getting ridiculous minutes is because the players who are paid big money to produce aren’t producing, and float around instead.

    So, blame the players who are supposed to be producing on the second or third lines.

  73. boing007 says:

    anal-ysts
    Good one.

    Richard R


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