Tough one tonight

Canadiens defenceman P.K. Subban signs autographs for fans as he enters Rogers Arena for Tuesday’s morning skate.
Stubbs photo

They’re all tough lately.

But the Vancouver Canucks are REALLY good.

And the Canadiens haven’t won in Van since Nov. 30, 2000.

Martin juggles lines

Stubbs on Calgary game

“Classic” did nothing to showcase hockey – Hickey

Réjean Tremblay didn’t like it either

• Arpon Basu on decoding Martin

And thanks to video scout Jarred Friedman for the Sedin Twins playing the Newlywed Game

 

NAxXD4sYUks

533 Comments

  1. Mattyleg says:

    This just goes to show that you don’t understand coaching, Everlasting.

    A coach can’t be the one leaning over players’ shoulders and giving them endless pep-talks, or working plays with them. That’s the assistant’s job. The coach watches the play and makes adjustments through the assistants. If the coach is talking to a player and something happens on the ice that he misses, he is not doing his job properly.

    There! Do you understand the difference between a coach’s responsibilities and the assistant’s now?

    (oh, and I’m not sure why you would denigrate one of the proudest Habs of all time by calling him ‘pompous’. It makes you look extremely unintelligent. Perhaps that wasn’t your goal.)

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  2. Hobie Hansen says:

    Well considering there are no NHL teams in those countries…

    Plus, Calgary fans enjoy singing that anthem and during certain parts of the song they over powered the singer. Nothing wrong with a friendly gesture to the 24 American teams in the NHL.

    Lighten up!  

     

  3. Bugs says:

    Bylsma? Col coach, whatsisname, Sacco? Uhh, Boudreau (to the point where Jack Marty doesn’t eliminate’m of course)?

    I think others could do a better job than me at this.

  4. HardHabits says:

    You’re right. It look’s even worse:

    1999-00 Out of Playoffs
    2000-01 Out of Playoffs
    2001-02 Lost in round 2 (2W-4L)
    2002-03 Out of Playoffs
    2003-04 Lost in round 2 (0W-4L)
    2005-06 Lost in round 1 (3W-4L)
    2006-07 Out of Playoffs
    2007-08 Lost in round 2 (1W-4L)
    2008-09 Lost in round 1 (0W-4L)
    2009-10 Lost in round 3 (1W-4L)

    The Habs might have made it to the 2nd round a few times only managed 2 wins once they got there. By the time the Habs made it to the 3rd round they only mustered 1 win. Not to mention that the Habs wouldn’t have gone that far had Halak not given the Habs a goaltending performance for the ages.

    So tell me, was it worth it going for broke in 00, 01, 03 and 07? Wouldn’t it have been better to have been a seller a few times during those years?

    Better and more picks, rather than constant mediocrity or worse letting 11 UFAs go with nothing to show for it.

  5. Everlasting1 says:

    Ok then, let me know when they have a winning season. Capiche? I respected him as a player. No more no less.

     

    Elohim:”Let us make an Adam in our image and after our likeness.” – Genesis 1:26

    “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

  6. Mr. Habs says:

    Martin has an enormous amount of experience in the NHL yes, but he can’t win a Stanley Cup. If you just want to go a couple/three rounds in the playoffs then Martin is the man.

  7. cautiousoptimist says:

    Big trade for the Penguins and Stars: Neal and Niskanen for Goligoski

    1. Flickering Pictures: not a hockey site, but still kinda neat
    2. Mike Boone: “With Gainey at my side, I’d walk into any dark alley in the world.”
  8. TomNickle says:

    Hobie wasn’t addressing the actual issue though Bugs.  The actual issue is assistant coaches replacing their former bosses with the same team.  And that’s a recipe for failure.  

    Boudreau, Bylsma and Sacco to my knowledge weren’t the assistant or associate coaches with their NHL clubs prior to taking the reigns.

    That’s where failure is bread.

  9. TomNickle says:

    They had a winning season last year.  They’re having one this year.  And based on the way you speak of Gainey I have a hard time beliveing you’re old enough to have seen him play.

  10. Bugs says:

    That ACTUALLY goes “He who runs away lives to run away another day.”

    It’s those who survive who write the history books after all, and not those who sacrificed themselves FOR history.

  11. CanadienBoy says:

    Gomez -18

  12. Bugs says:

    Thanks, CO.

    I see your time-machine is working splendidly. Perhaps a little tightening of bolts here or there but ready for patenting in my opinion.

  13. Mr. Habs says:

    Based on stats, Carbo’s has been better than Martins with the Habs & Martin has tons of experience as a Head coach. Martin got one more round in the playoffs than Carbo did!

  14. Mattyleg says:

    And all the Cups that Muller has won as coach…?

    Coaching perrennial losers like Florida and Ottawa don’t give you a lot of hope.

    You going to tell me that Lindy Ruff isn’t a good coach? Pat Quinn?

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  15. TomNickle says:

    Based on playoff results, you know, the results that matter, Martin is winning by a landslide.

  16. ABHabsfan says:

    That right there is funny stuff. I am currently in the heart of Leaf-land, (Lindsay Ont, family thing). I am going to tell that joke to every dilusional leaf fan I meet today. And let me tell you there is no shortage of them around here.

  17. Everlasting1 says:

    Yea, whatever he’s doing, it ain’t working. Thanks for your unnecessary shpiel. At the end of the day these are all just opinions. An unintelligent one wouldn’t recognize.

     

    Elohim:”Let us make an Adam in our image and after our likeness.” – Genesis 1:26

    “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

  18. TomNickle says:

    Oh, and on that comparison.  Carbonneau had a healthy Markov and Gorges for the majority of his time here.  

  19. Bugs says:

    Aaah, I see.

    Yeah, a guy goes from “friend of the players and confidante” to “whip-cracker what knows all their secrets”, indeed, I mean, if it spelled trouble in Danemark, why wouldn’t it here, right?

  20. SmartDog says:

    What I’m worried about is all those Atlanta and Nashville fans scratching their heads over what state Calgary is in.

  21. Mattyleg says:

    Excellent.

    So a chicken and a peanut are walking down the road. The chicken turns to the peanut and says: “This is the stupidest joke I’ve ever been in.”

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  22. Everlasting1 says:

    I’m sure that gives you a sense of satisfaction.

    I’ve seen Gainey play..in black and white, and in french.

     

    Elohim:”Let us make an Adam in our image and after our likeness.” – Genesis 1:26

    “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

  23. Mr. Habs says:

    Martin had a few Stanley Cup contending teams with great players far better than what the Habs have to work with now but could not get it done.

  24. punkster says:

    Been playing chess since I was a kid, Risk since the early 70s and love both games. But way different than sports teams. Way different. You can talk about drafting, luck, strategy and thinking ahead all you want. Purposely losing, surrendering, tanking? No thanks. Your white flag of surrender isn’t irony. It’s a white flag of surrender.

    ***Subbang!!!***

  25. Mattyleg says:

    Most importantly, as of next month, JM will have been coach longer than Carbo. Which means more than anything else, really.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  26. mjames says:

    I see where Apron Basu has to decode what Martin is saying. If we can’t understand what Martin is saying how the heck do the players. Who decodes for the players. Whoever it is is missing because Martin and the players are not on the same page.

     

    mjames

  27. twocents says:

    Your ‘rithmetic skills need a little polishing.

  28. Hobie Hansen says:

    I won’t try and dissect the Xs and Os behind coaching in the NHL but from a fan who lived through the days between Jacques Demers winning the cup and Jacques Martin getting us to the conference finals, I know one thing, rookie coaches don’t survive here, end of story! There’s a small chance one might succeed but who wants to waste 2 years figuring that out and probably failing. The pressure is too high and it takes a very experienced and strong NHL leader to get the job done here. With the small size, lack of firepower and all the injuries over the last two years, could anyone else have done a better job, I doubt it!!! That is my humble opinion on the issue, coming from a guy who doesn’t ever want to live through another rookie coaching disaster like we did from the time Demers left to the time Martin arrived.

  29. Mr. Habs says:

    Wrong Sir. Carbo coached 230 reg. season games for the Habs. Martin so far, 141 games.

  30. notbigbird says:

    Presumably he speaks differently to the players than the press.

  31. Chuck says:

    Didn’t I see that in a Far Side comic?    :)

  32. Mattyleg says:

    I don’t understand your last sentence. There’s no subject.

    There is no opinion in this post. It’s about the difference between coaches and assistant coaches.

    And the original thesis was that Muller wouldn’t be better than JM. Which is an opinion.

    And JM’s doing fine; what he’s doing is working. We made the Conference Finals last year, and are in a comfortable playoff position now. We just need to keep the work up!

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  33. Malreg says:

    Daniel was injurred for a large portion of last season, and Henrik still won the scoring race and the Hart.

  34. Hobie Hansen says:

    Where’s Guy coaching now?

  35. TomNickle says:

    Are you trying to say that a coach would be more candid with his players than he would be with the people putting him under the microscope?  That’s crazy talk.

  36. Kooch7800 says:

    I think for a pure blood pressure stand point I will avoid watching tonights game. 

  37. twocents says:

    “If we can’t understand what Martin is saying how the heck do the players.”

    Let me get this straight.

    Your premise is that people who hang out in a cyber chat room and never interact directly with a coach should have an easier time understanding his messages than the players who spend large portions of their waking days with him?

  38. Mattyleg says:

    Riiight. Missed that one. I was looking at the wrong… nevermind.

    Lemme rephrase that: I have a feeling that JM’s tenure in Montreal will be longer than Carbo’s. JM communicates with his players and has had good success so far. You don’t fire a coach who is doing well. You fire a problem coach.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  39. TomNickle says:

    Patrick Lalime.

  40. TomNickle says:

    As a coach, not professional mind you.  I would die before I share the reasons for my decisions with people who aren’t members of my team or whose opinions I’m not seeking.  I would never share my thoughts with anyone outside of the family.  Everyone has an agenda and I’m not putting myself in a position where I’m adding fuel to their fire.

  41. Mr. Habs says:

    I said looking at STATS. Do you know Carbo is looking for a coaching job right now when he is still employed buy the Habs?

  42. Bugs says:

    Jean Perron was a rookie coach.

  43. Everlasting1 says:

    Btw, doesn’t matter how you slice it, it was Gainey who brought Carbo on board. I’d imagine effective communication would be a prerequisite for a head coach job. Chalk it up to another Gainey fail..you can’t play both sides of this argument.

     

    Elohim:”Let us make an Adam in our image and after our likeness.” – Genesis 1:26

    “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

  44. Mr. Habs says:

    Detroit won a cup with a avg. goalie not to long ago. They could score more than they let in!

  45. TomNickle says:

    If you make it you have a chance.  I really don’t feel like going back through all of those seasons and analyze whether or not they should’ve been sellers.  

    That season specifically, the big ufa season.  Komisarek, Kovalev and a couple of others should have been traded.

  46. TomNickle says:

    If you hold everybody up to Detroit as a standard over the last 15 years, they will all come up short.

  47. TomNickle says:

    With two of the best players and leaders in this franchises history carrying this team.  Not to mention its best goaltender.

  48. Mattyleg says:

    Carbonneau is the head coach of the Chicoutimi Sagueneens.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  49. lenny says:

    JM tries to crack the whip in practice, Great!!! But, why not send a message and put Gomez on the bench or 4th line…Deharnais should get a crack at the top line…..

    I think Gomz may go down as the most hated Hab player ever (well maybe AK46)….

     

  50. TomNickle says:

    Certainly.  I don’t think rookie coaches are doomed from the start because there’s no such thing as a rookie coach.  Nobody gets pulled off the street and given a team.  But until the trend changes, I will never believe that an associate coach can take the reigns of their current team and succeed.  

  51. Bugs says:

    Al MacNeil, Claude Ruel. If there are excuses for all the contradictory evidence, surely the original affirmation must be amended instead, no?

  52. Mattyleg says:

    Who had 10 years of experience as the head coach of the University of Moncton Blue Angels before being assistant coach to Team Canada for two years and assistant coach in Montreal for one year.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  53. TomNickle says:

    You really think one or two players should be benched for the team’s lack of success recently?

    There are few playing well right now.  Two guys shouldn’t take the brunt of the punishment for 18.

  54. G-Man says:

    Yes, Al McNeil- the one drummed out of town by Henri Richard, who called McNeil his worst coach ever.

    Yes- Claude Ruel- who loved it so much being head coach he asked to be removed after winning his Cup?

    Yes-Jean “C’est moi l’equipe” Perron who lucked out on Roy’s magical run combined with the rookies all coming through? And how long before he was shown the door and hasn’t coached in the NHL since?

  55. andrewberkshire says:

    I’ve heard JM only speaks to the team in a bizarre combination of spoken morse code, piglatin and sign language.

  56. Bugs says:

    “Rookie coach” means “rookie NHL coach” not “buddy just got out of culinary school never seen a game in his life.”

    C’mon, Matty.

  57. TomNickle says:

    As great as Burns was, the reason he went through so many teams is that his style doesn’t breed longevity.  The in your face messages and fire and brimstone speeches wear off after a couple of seasons.

  58. Mr. Habs says:

    I can’t disagree LA

  59. Bugs says:

    I agreed with you on that; this is a different thread, yes?

  60. TomNickle says:

    Not really, this whole conversation was started off of a desire of some to have Martin removed, which begs the question, what kind of replacement do you want?  And what kind of replacement can bring more success under the same circumstances?

  61. Bugs says:

    Look again. Look at what he said. Look at my reply.

    NOTHING to do with the assistant taking over. New thread. Yes?

  62. TomNickle says:

    Look again Bugs.  The original comment in this thread was about the job Martin has done.

  63. Hobie Hansen says:

    Ya it would be nice if martin had guys like Gilmour, Andreychuk, Stevens, Neidermayer, Roy, Chelios to adjust to like Burns did…I love Burns, don’t get me wrong, but he had quite a bit to work with, those are only a a small portion of the hall of famers out of the bunch…   

  64. TomNickle says:

    If Gomez and Kostitsyn should be watching, so should Plekanec, Hamrlik and a bunch of the others.

  65. Mark C says:

    Your giving Lemaire way too much credit for getting Kovalchuk going. Kovalchuk was statistically better last season in Atlanta than he was under Lemarie after the trade. Kovalchuk has been great under every head coach he’s had other than MacLean, which is around dozen head coaches. Even Kovalchuk’s hot streak under Lemaire isn’t better than his average type of season in Atlanta. Kovalchuk also had 8 points in the 8 games before Lemaire took over, it seems he had already started turning around his season.  

    If Crosby/Stamkos/Ovie started next season cold, only to take off once a new head coach was brought in, would we be giving new head coach credit for that?

  66. observer says:

    mike keenan was u. of toronto coach once first.

  67. observer says:

    always lost to the leafs. fired gauthier and him and got to cup finals.

  68. Bugs says:

    And rookie coaches, yes, but…NOTHING to do with “associate” coaches, which you insist on bringing up.

    New thread = whether or not rookie coaches could do a better job than Jack Marty.

    Your thread: whether or not rookie associate coaches can do a better head coaching job than the head coach on the same team.

    I agreed with you on the associate part. This is a new thread. No mention of associates or same teams. COMPLETELY different. Please don’t tell me to “look again” at my own point, please, especially not after I’ve patiently tried explaining it to you THREE TIMES.

  69. TomNickle says:

    Andrei Kostitsyn was our best player through the first 15 games of the year and Gomez was carrying the team on his back when Pleks started to slump.  Just my opinion on both but the ups and downs of the season have been a total team effort.  There isn’t a single person in that lineup other than Pacioretty who can say they’ve been consistent.

  70. KenD29 says:

    Of late, agreed. However, at least Plecs and Hamrlik contributed earlier on. Not sure the same can be said about Gomez and AK46.

    Tonight we skate with them, Tonight is our night!

  71. Kooch7800 says:

    I would include Price, DD, Darche as being pretty consistent this year.  If we didn’t have price we wouldn’t be in the playoff picture at all.

    Our offense is an embarrasment

  72. TomNickle says:

    This is the FOURTH TIME.  Go back and read Hobie Hansen’s post.  It was the first one of this thread and touched on both issues.  FOUR TIMES!

  73. Bugs says:

    “I won’t try and dissect the Xs and Os behind coaching in the NHL but from a fan who lived through the days between Jacques Demers winning the cup and Jacques Martin getting us to the conference finals, I know one thing, rookie coaches don’t survive here, end of story! There’s a small chance one might succeed but who wants to waste 2 years figuring that out and probably failing. The pressure is too high and it takes a very experienced and strong NHL leader to get the job done here. With the small size, lack of firepower and all the injuries over the last two years, could anyone else have done a better job, I doubt it!!! That is my humble opinion on the issue, coming from a guy who doesn’t ever want to live through another rookie coaching disaster like we did from the time Demers left to the time Martin arrived.”

    Show me where it mentions the associate coach taking over, please, Tommy.


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