Things to watch for in the Cup final

250-brodeur-martin

The Kings — who obviously haven’t gotten over Marty McSorley’s illegal stick penalty against the Canadiens in 1993 — invade Newark on Thursday to play the Devils for the Stanley Cup championship, a matchup no one could have predicted in April. There are no ghosts from the Montreal Forum to haunt the Kings this time and many believe they are a lock to win their first Cup in franchise history. But if the unpredictability of these playoffs have taught us anything, it’s don’t award a series to a team before they start to play.

So with that said, here are some little battles to watch for as the Devils and Kings square off. It’s not an exhaustive list, just some highlights.

1) Battle of the forecheckers – Both these teams like to play deep in the other team’s end and wear the opposition down. If they stick to what got them here, they will show some subtle differences, however. The Kings like to get the puck to the slot as quickly as they can and feel they can dominate there while the Devils pound it deep, grind it around on the outside until they can get it to the point and then get it to the net.

The challenge for the Devils is for their defence to battle in the slot against the big Kings forwards. The challenge for the Kings is whether they will get drawn out from the middle of the ice, where they like to play, to the boards where the Devils like to play. If they move out, that will take them away from their strength and if they stay in the middle, it will allow New Jersey to move the puck more freely.

2) Battle of the depth forwards – The third and fourth liners on each club have been impressive and productive. You don’t get this far in the postseason without that. Which group of depth forwards will be better? The answer to that may go a long way to determining who wins the Cup.

3) Battle of the goalies -- Local boy Marty Brodeur had struggled during the season; his save percentage was only .908; it’s .923 in the playoffs and while he doesn’t always look as solid as he used to, he’s getting the job done and that’s all the Devils need. His still-superior puckhandling could be big factor in that first point, thwarting the Kings’ forecheck, if he can get to their shoot-ins and move the puck to a safer area.

Connecticut product Johnathan Quick, whose uncanny flexibility and lateral movement will likely be the subject of many video replays on the telecasts, uses those gifts to search for pucks through traffic and he’s been pretty great at stopping them. If Brodeur has raised his game, so has Quick — his save percentage in the regular season was .929 and it’s now a Tim Thomas-like .946. But his puckhandling is an adventure and in the experience department, there’s no comparison between the two. Will either of those things matter?

4) The special teams battle – The Kings power play is awful, 6-for-74, a measly 8.1 percent, and it’s something they’ve worked on during their break between series (and keep in mind the Bruins won the Cup last year with a pretty unproductive power play). But their penalty kill has been brilliant, allowing only 5 goals in 57 chances, a 91.2 percent clip. And they have five shorthanded goals. Because the Devils like to put Ilya Kovalchuk on the point with the extra man, they could be ripe for a shortie or two this round.

On the other hand, New Jersey’s power play has been pretty good with 12 PPGs in 66 chances, an 18.2 rate. Their PK stats aren’t very good, but that is because they were hammered in the first round by the Panthers, who got 9 power play goals in 27 chances. It was a poor performance from the team that was best in the NHL on the PK during the regular season. Since then, they have killed 28 of 35, a bit more respectable at 80 percent.

5) Battle of the coaches – The Kings Darryl Sutter coaches a very basic style. He’s meat and potatoes, with not a lot of complicated terminology or concepts. You’re either doing a good job in the basics of your role or you’re not. It certainly has worked for him, as the Kings are 37-13-11 including playoffs since he took over. He’s somehow managed to get Dustin Penner to be an effective NHLer again and he’s been a calming presence behind the net as he turned the offense loose after frustrating years of Terry Murray’s more passive approach without losing the Kings defensive footing.

By contrast, the Devils Pete DeBoer — who also turned his teams offense loose — is more technically oriented and he’s been highly praised highly be the Kings Mike Richards, who says DeBoer taught him how to win when he played for DeBoer as a junior in Kitchener where they won the 2003 Memorial Cup and gold for Canada in the 2005 World Junior Championship (where DeBoer was an assistant coach). He’s also got two excellent assistants with him who think the game quite well too in Adam Oates and Larry Robinson. Larry’s work with the unheralded Devils defense corps has deservedly drawn raves. If there’s any adversity encountered by New Jersey, Robinson’s nine Cups as a player and coach will help them refocus.

DEVILS PROBABLE LINEUP

Zach Parise, Travis Zajac, Dainius Zubrus
Patrik Elias, Adam Henrique, Ilya Kovalchuk
Alexei Ponikarovsky, Jacob Josefson, David Clarkson
Ryan Carter, Stephen Gionta, Steve Bernier

Andy Greene, Mark Fayne
Bryce Salvador, Marek Zidlicky
Anton Volchenkov, Peter Harrold

Martin Brodeur
Johan Hedberg

KINGS PROBABLE LINEUP

Dustin Brown, Anze Kopitar, Justin Williams
Dustin Penner, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter
Dwight King, Jarret Stoll, Trevor Lewis
Brad Richardson, Colin Fraser, Jordan Nolan

Rob Scuderi, Drew Doughty
Willie Mitchell, Slava Voynov
Alec Martinez, Matt Greene

Jonathan Quick
Jonathan Bernier

323 Comments

  1. nunacanadien says:

    Day 6937 without a cup in Montreal. Nothing much has changed, although we have a very funny actor playing the role of General Manager…..wonder which famous actor is pretending to be a coach? Heck if we’re just gonna hire some guy to pretend we might as well get Don Cherry behind the bench. Complete with suits and his act…..while Geoff Molson issues another press release about how well his paid actor/management is doing in keeping Gomez on…..yes Geoff Molson, who hates the Habs is gonna get his bonus I am sure for making sure we came in last…..

  2. blu_blanc_rouge says:

    Listening to sportsnet at noon today. Wayne Gretzky compared Larry Robinson to Jean Belivieau in the way he carries him self with class. He also said the Robinson is a winner

    • TomNickle says:

      Larry Robinson also had the best soundbite in the history of hockey. Best rant ever.

      ***********************************************
      Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

      • habstrinifan says:

        If Larry Robinson is willing (if he is willing he will be available regardless of commitment terms to NJ beyond cup final).. it would be a shame if this dawning renaissance period of the Mtl Canadiens is not highlighted by the return of Robinson to the habs family.

        • Habitant in Surrey says:

          …a travesty it did not happen years ago
          …what lost years We Fans and Our Team have been walking in the desert ! …not only re Big Bird, but innumerable other unforgivable negligence and incompetence
          …yet, We as Fans, endured and remain faithful
          …amazing, considering

  3. commandant says:

    I’ll say this. Roy vs brodeur vs hasek.

    Brodeur is the guy with the longevity and the continued excellence.

    Roy is the guy I want in my net in game 7 of the Cup Finals. A pure winner in a big game scenario.

    Hasek is the guy I want in my net in the same game 7 if I know my team can’t compare to the opponent. If its 50/50 toss up game, give me Roy. But if I need a goalie to pull a rabbit out of his butt or else my team will get killed, hasek is most likely to pull off that miracle.

    Overall though, I think my analysis says Roy is the best because he’s the guy you want in net if everything else about your team is a contender, and you just need big game goaltending.

    Go Habs Go!
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    • TomNickle says:

      Hasek will never get the consideration he deserves. People forget his Cup victory because Detroit won with so many goaltenders.

      **********************************************
      Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

  4. shiram says:

    Detroit Red Wings ‏@DetroitRedWings

    The Red Wings have called a press conference tomorrow morning at Joe Louis Arena. Ken Holland and Nick Lidstrom are expected to speak.

    Is he retiring, or re-signing?

    Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

    • Bripro says:

      Have they ever called a press-conference with Lidstrom present, aside from his initial signing? I don’t think so.
      It looks like he’s hanging them up, IMO.

  5. TomNickle says:

    Oh and it appears that Nick Lidstrom will retire tomorrow. Safe to say Ryan Suter’s going to Detroit?

    *****************************************************
    Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

    • shiram says:

      And here I thought you were going to come after me for spreading more rumours!

      Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

      • TomNickle says:

        That’s not nice! I was merely discussing the possibility with you.

        I think Lidstrom’s time is done. To be quite honest I think the Habs are closer to a Cup right now than the Red Wings are. Just too old at too many important positions. To win a Cup at this point they’d need everything to fall into place and make quick work of every opponent. No easy task in a league with parity.

        **********************************************
        Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

        • shiram says:

          It will be sad to see such a great player hang his skates, if that is indeed what the presser is about.

          Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

    • krob1000 says:

      If Suter goes to Detroit…then I can see Lidstrom not joining the club until around December for cap purposes and make another run at the playoffs….if the team is doing well I can’t see him as being a guy capable of watching from the couch.

      • TomNickle says:

        Never say never but I don’t feel they’re in a position to compete for another Cup without either a blow up or adding a lot of young pieces on the fly.

        I think they need three very quick series’ to have a shot at another Cup. I just don’t see it. They aren’t fast and are particularly old at forward. Their defense are in pretty damn good shape even without Lidstrom but I just think their time has passed. I’d be moving out some pieces for picks if I were in that GM chair.

        ******************************
        Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

        • krob1000 says:

          Nyqvist, Tatar and Brendan Smith are all poised to make the jump (2 of the 3 will ikely be 30 point guys this year and Smith has some size), add another piece at forward, add Ryan Suter and Lidstrom for half a season…sounds like a contender to me. Datsyuk and Zetterberg when healthy are as dangerous a duo as SA Spurs who everyone keeps expecting to go away….winners are winners and that team is loaded with winners.

  6. TomNickle says:

    With the debate about Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur raging on I thought I would assemble my All-Time team for fun.

    Luc Robataille – Wayne Gretzky – Gordie Howe
    Bobby Hull – Mario Lemieux – Jaromir Jagr
    Michele Goulet- Steve Yzerman – Guy Lafleur
    Ilya Kovalchuk -Bryan Trottier – Mike Bossy

    Bobby Orr- Ray Bourque
    Paul Coffey- Larry Robinson
    Nick Lidstrom- Denis Potvin

    Martin Brodeur
    Patrick Roy

    ******************************************
    Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

    • Willy says:

      Interesting team. The inclusion of Robataille(sp?) and Kovalchuk are surprises to me. Also, no Sid? If this based purely on talent and not time period then i think an argument could be made to include Rocket Richard as well.

      The D and goalies i would say pretty much the same.

      • TomNickle says:

        I went strictly by position and longevity was a big part of the criteria. Era was also important or I would have included Doug Harvey.

        If it were based on talent alone the list would have been half-Russian.
        ;)

        *************************************************
        Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

    • krob1000 says:

      I would give Messier and Beliveau the nod over Trottier and Yzerman…..then again I might change my mind the next day lol
      I would also prefer to move someone to the other side and remove goulet from that list and even Kovalchuk…..Brett Hull and The Rocket (not the Russian one) would do the trick.
      I agree with the goalies and on D I would add Eddie Shore and Doug Harvey and remove Robinson and Potvin.

    • Newf_Habster says:

      Where is Rocket Richard?!?!?!?!?! :(

  7. JF says:

    Some great discussions on here today. The tone is much less acrimonious than usual.

  8. Kooch7800 says:

    WTF is all I have to say:

    Warning explicit lyrics

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruef7aYCEbc

  9. jon514 says:

    Habs just signed Beaulieu. This was in the press release:

    Beaulieu, 19, recorded 152 points in 233 games with Saint John. He was also part of the Saint John squad that won the Memorial Cup in 2011.

    Can’t believe people are talking about trading him.

    • jols101 says:

      Ya he is going to be a beauty…
      But trades are all relative to what you get in return.
      What if another GM is high on him and offers up a top 10 overall draft pick for him this year? or
      What if Phillie with Cap room issues and the emergence of players like, Couturier, Read, Simmonds and Schenn feel that JVR, a former 3rd overall pick, is expendable and wants to make a trade?
      I do not think anyone advocates trading a great asset without getting some thing great or greater in return…just my opinion.

  10. commandant says:

    Most teams who are gonna change GMs this offseason would have fired their current guy by now.

    Earliest TT can realistically leave is after next season, and that’s assuming he gets offered a GM job.

    Once again self proclaimed twitter insider rumours don’t stand up to scrutiny.

    Go Habs Go!
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  11. commandant says:

    Someone might tab him as GM, but what team is looking for a GM right now?

    Go Habs Go!
    Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
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    • TomNickle says:

      St. Louis could be soon enough. If the Devils win this Cup I could see Uncle Lou stepping down. Greg Sherman in Colorado can’t be feeling too safe right now.

      There may not be an opening today but that can change very quickly.

      *******************************************
      Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      Lots of people apparently.

      They were close to going out of business but the bailout gave them a new life. I think they’ve even climbed back above Toyota in total sales.


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  12. commandant says:

     The Timmins stuff is the usual twitter rumor mongerers.

    Fact; Dudley was GM of the Sens when Timmins was promoted to head scout.

    Fact: Bergevin and Dudley have spoken glowingly of Timmins in both press conferences.

    Fact: Even with mellanby on board, timmins role is being expanded not reduced. Bergevin is giving his lieutenants more freedom and responsibility than PG ever did. Timmins is doing pressers now, and he’s being put in charge of a growing scouting staff.

    Don’t believe the twitter rumors, Tieman should know better than that.

    Go Habs Go!
    Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
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  13. Kooch7800 says:

    Nathan Beaulieu signs 3 year deal http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=633263&navid=DL|MTL|home

    “Like Canadian Hip hop..check us out http://www.groovecontrolmusic.com

  14. JF says:

    Vincent Damphousse has reported that Bob Hartley has had a second interview with the Flames and is likely to be hired there; according to him, the two front-runners for the Habs coaching job are Michel Therrien and Marc Crawford. I don’t want either.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      I prefer Crawford over Therrien…Therrien couldn’t do it with a young and very talented Penquins team…what will he do with this roster?

      “Like Canadian Hip hop..check us out http://www.groovecontrolmusic.com

    • Habsrule1 says:

      I think I could live with Crawford, but please not Therrien. I cannot picture hiring Therrien as being a good move by Bergevin in any way at all.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • pmaraw says:

      if those two are the frontrunners, i guess im cheering for the underdogs

    • FANHABULOUS says:

      I still hope Patrick Roy sneaks in there at the end… I fantasize about a Roy-Robinson-(another guy) trio of coaches. I think that bringing back a Crawford or Therien or Hartley is not ideal at a time when our whole management group has been re-organized (and well, I might add)… why recycle some old coaches right now? Let’s go with some new blood so management and coaches are all building new chemistry together, a fresh start all around so to speak. With Bergevin and his new team of pros, they can work with Roy towards building a team style and identity from scratch, instead of bringing a guy in with preconceived notions of how he likes to play (Crawford et al).

      As for those who think Roy would be bad for Price: give your heads a shake! First of all, Roy in NOT the goalie coach, Carey will keep working with the person he’s developed that relationship with. Also, how is it that the HIO folks think having Robinson behind the bench will be AWESOME for the development of our young defense (PK, Tinordi, Bealieu etc), yet believe Roy would be bad for PK?! Using your theories, Pk and friends would look at the hall of fame defenseman and be intimidated.

      I don’t buy that theory.

  15. shiram says:

    Patrick Kane update, kinda, Stan Bowman with a small blurb about Kane.
    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/hockey/blackhawks/12853372-419/blackhawks-concerned-about-patrick-kanes-off-iceescapades.html

    Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

  16. ZepFan2 says:

    This would be great.

    Jean Beliveau Award?

    ———————————————————————-
    “Bring it on home, Bring it on home to you…” – Plant/Page

    Bring it on Home

    • shiram says:

      Take away some glory of the Leafs and replace it with a Habs great? Sure.

      Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      We should recognize the players who made the game great. Enough with the Smythes and the Norrises and the Campbells, nobody has ever cheered these guys. If you read your history, these gentlemen are actually among the game’s great villains.

      So yes, let’s rename the trophy the Jean Béliveau award.

      Heck, why not the Claude Lemieux award?

      ———————————
      In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

      • ZepFan2 says:

        “Heck, why not the Claude Lemieux award?”

        I’m not sure if you’re being serious or just kidding around. Putting Lemieux in the same category as Mr. Beliveau is a little odd. I like Lemieux but he was no Beliveau.
        ———————————————————————-
        “Bring it on home, Bring it on home to you…” – Plant/Page

        Bring it on Home

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          I was kidding. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Claude was a gamer, but not anywhere near Mr. Béliveau’s class, or deserving of an NHL trophy named after him.

          ———————————
          In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

          http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

      • habstrinifan says:

        Beliveau certainly deserves every honour… he is non pareil. But to dismiss the other names as unworthy of the honours they have received?

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          trinifan, I highly recommend that you read the book I linked to in my post above. The Smythes and Norrises and Patrick and Campbell were fraud artists and crooks and not lovers of the game. They wrecked careers and cheated players and used hockey as a stadium filler between boxing matches. Only the Molson family comes off relatively okay in the account.

          That they named trophies and divisions after each other is not a true reflection of greatness or worthiness, but rather a disgusting circle jerk that needs to be expunged from league history, much like there aren’t that many buildings or parks named after Maurice Duplessis anymore.

          ———————————
          In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

          http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  17. HabinBurlington says:

    Another good day of discussion on HI/O.

    • shiram says:

      It’s a really nice place these days.

      Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

    • Habsolutely says:

      It’s not so great if you’re a Patrick Roy fan and you have to put up with the Roy haters spewing their nonsense.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I don’t think any of the people posting about not wanting Roy as coach hate him. Rather they just don’t see the great goalie being a great coach on his 1st go around as an NHL coach in Montreal.

        I love Roy, and could see him coaching team someday, in fact would rather him over Hartley. But I just think may be too soon from an NHL experience perspective.

        • Habsolutely says:

          I don’t know, I see lots of venom spewed toward Roy. People bring up his marriage and his personal life. People love how Torts and Ruff are so vocal and intense, yet they claim that Roy coaching like that would be the end of the world. I think it’s utter stupidity, but then again, I’ve been here since 2008, so I’ve seen my share of stupid posts here.

      • Kooch7800 says:

        I would love to see Roy as an assistant coach with the idea to make him the head coach in a couple years.

        “Like Canadian Hip hop..check us out http://www.groovecontrolmusic.com

  18. TomNickle says:

    Anybody here think that Patrick Roy would be held accountable by anybody in the Habs organization, media and fans if his coaching weren’t up to par?

    *******************************************
    Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

    • Chris says:

      Yep, because we live in a “What have you done for me lately?” world.

      I think he would get a longer piece of rope, but he would still be permitted to hang himself if he can’t cut it.

      I remain firmly of the belief that Patrick Roy can be a very good NHL coach, while also firmly believing that the Montreal Canadiens head coach would be the absolute worst choice for a first NHL gig, both for him and the franchise.

      Let him learn the ropes somewhere else for a while…contracts are never forever, so there’s always a chance he could bolt for the Habs if it really is his dream position, but then he would be coming in as an experienced head coach candidate and less emphasis would be placed on his storied NHL playing career.

      • TomNickle says:

        I really don’t know Chris. I could see it being the players’ fault for not being up to par or responding to his style. I could see the blame falling on Bergevin’s shoulders before Roy’s.

        For that reason, I don’t think he’ll be hired.

        **********************************
        Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

        • mrhabby says:

          we all enjoyed PRoy as a player , so committed to winning and ultra competitve. But despite his resume of past and present he would still be a rookie head coach in Montreal trying to cut his teeth in the pro leagues in of the worst pressure packed environments in all of sports. Surely the organization does not want to go down the path of another rookie coach. PR should get his experience somewhere else and then come to Montreal. I don’t envy Bergevin and i think this would be suicide starting off.

      • Max_a_million says:

        Patrick Roy would be the first one to hold himself accountable. He has a tremendous drive, that led him to be the best goalie of all time. He has a tremendous team in Quebec. He has spent his life working hard to excel. That’s what you want. Someone who holds them self accountable.

        • TomNickle says:

          I would never disagree with that. My concern from this perspective is that once you take him on, you can’t get away from him if you want to.

          ************************************
          Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

          • Max_a_million says:

            I can’t disagree that it’s a concern.

            I would rather be wrong making a bold choice as opposed to a meek one though.

    • Habsrule1 says:

      Of course. People love their former players here, but we love winning more. I was slightly interested when Tremblay came on board, even though he had no experience, but I soon realized he was a putz.
      How about Gainey, Houle, Carbo? Everyone loved the idea of them, but had no trouble at all saying they sucked when the time came.
      As I said, I’m just surprised at the reasons I see for not wanting Roy. Too fiery? Too passionate? Too good a goalie in his day so can’t coach Price? Too hot-headed (5 years ago, was it…or more?)It boggles my mind.
      Tell me he’s not ready due to lack of experience, and you got something there. The other reasons are laughable.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

      • mdp2011 says:

        I agree with you, for people to automatically assume that he will not be able to co-exist with Price is really laughable. If anything, Roy will know exactly how Price is feeling and how to deal with him. Roy has always been a public supporter of Price, and I don’t get people who say that will change if he becomes the Habs head coach.

      • Max_a_million says:

        I would think he would leave Price alone. That’s how he preferred the job when Jacques Demers was in charge. I don’t think Price and Roy would matter much. I think his passion is contagious, and that’s what we need.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Organization: I think Patrick would demand and receive a 5 year contract, which would give him a little bit of security and autonomy over and above the financial security he currently enjoys. I think that’s a positive in this case, he’d be taking the job not because he wants a bump in pay, and then coach so as to cling to the salary and position, but rather to win.

      Marc Bergevin and his team would probably deal with Patrick as an equal rather than a callow underling. That still implies a level of accountability, and I would argue probably a higher level. I’ve held positions where my direct superior is a buddy and someone I knew socially before they became my boss. They trusted me to deliver and didn’t micromanage me, so I got lots of autonomy, but also felt an inner need to succeed and not let anyone down for personal reasons, over and above any classic employee-boss relationship. I think Patrick would have and need input and a seat at the table, but would also be driven to deliver, and would understand that failure and discord wouldn’t be tolerated.

      Geoff Molson has shown to be a patient, thoughtful man. He let the incumbents do their job when he took over instead of autocratically cleaning house as was done in Winnipeg for different reasons. Once he realized that the management team was dysfunctional, he decisively but skillfully went about making changes. He’s no imperious George Steinbrenner-type, but he’s also shown that he’s going to be involved, will care, and won’t suffer incompetence.

      Media: I have a jaundiced view of the media to begin with, and the Pierre Gauthier saga just adds to it. Why were we not told that the team hated his guts or feared him? Why were not the Mike Cammalleri jersey story or the Ottawa cookie rationing incidents relayed to the people who consume sports journalism? Why were we not told of the climate of fear in the New Forum? Why was there not a comparative analysis of the way the Canadiens management operated versus a sample of others, such as the Bruins, Wings, Lightning, Coyotes, Leafs and Blue Jackets, for example? I know some will snap that sports journalists need to protect their access to the team by not antagonizing it, but then I have to respond that this access is hollow, useless to the fans. It’s like the supply clerk who won’t give you a box of pens because he’s running out of pens.

      My gut is that, with respect to the very low bar set by the media who cover the Canadiens in this instance, the people who championed Patrick Roy would defend his moves and decisions until or unless that became untenable, and at that point the tide would have shifted and he would be on his way out. Conversely, those that had other favourites would give him a very short leash/honeymoon period, and start to stomp him at the first losing streak.

      Fans: My guess is that 10% would love the coach unconditionally and would defend him to the end, and past that point. Heck, we have posters who advocate for Randy Cunneyworth right now, so Patrick would have his backers. Another 10% would howl with frustration at the hire and would lick their chops anytime the team didn’t win by a five goal margin. The other 80% would be the sane majority and would support Patrick and give him the benefit of a dozen doubts, win or tie.

      ———————————
      In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • Cal says:

      100%. The name of the coach will not matter and neither will his record as a player. Every decision will be sliced and diced and analyzed up the wazoo. This is the Habs we’re talking about.
      Even if he were to become the coach, until he wins the Cup he will not be liked by many anyways.

  19. habstrinifan says:

    WOW! Randy Teaman just said on tsn990 that there are reports that Timmins would be leaving ‘after’ the draft.

    Now Teaman is just saying he has received many tweets/reports as such. He is not putting out as a rumour.

    Anyone in Mtl hearing any buzz re this story before.

    I for one hope NOT!

    • TomNickle says:

      From everything Rick Dudley’s said I doubt there’s anything to it.

      ***********************************************
      Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Heard nothing before, but perhaps an old boss of his who now works in Dallas offered him a position he couldn’t refuse?

      • TomNickle says:

        Hold the phone! I thought Trevor Timmins hated Bob Gainey because of the Gomez trade that Timmins begged Gainey not to make?

        *****************************************
        Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

    • Chris says:

      Haven’t heard anything of this, but I actually wouldn’t be surprised if this happened.

      After almost a decade as director of amateur scouting, few could argue that Timmins isn’t deserving of a promotion if he’s looking to climb the hockey administration ladder. With both Carriere and Dudley now entrenched as Assistant General Managers (the most logical rung for Timmins to go for next) in Montreal, perhaps he would entertain the offer from another club.

      With a M.B.A., a Master’s in Sports Administration, and experience in hockey operations back when he worked with the Senators, it isn’t unreasonable to assume that Timmins may eventually want to be a General Manager himself.

      This is pure speculation on my part, however, so just take that with a massive grain of salt.

    • Max says:

      Haven’t heard anything about this, but if Timmins does decide to leave,the team will survive and get along just fine. He has done a good job but is far from perfect, and it’s always good to change things up occasionally and bring in new people and ideas.

      Timmins has drafted well, but David Fischer is a name that won’t soon be forgotten by hab’s fans.

      If he stays,great,if he decides to move on, then it’s “don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya Trevy!” :)

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      It’s only a matter of time until he’s head-hunted by another organization. If we can’t offer him a promotion, he’s going to seek advancement somewhere else.

      This is where the strong organization model becomes useful. If we build a management team that is mindful of succession, if and when the time comes that someone like Trevor Timmins is offered an Assistant GM role or better somewhere else, you shake his hand and wish him luck, and then promote the next deserving guy from the organization.

      Even if Trevor Timmins leaves, it still gives us a contact on another team, within limits there are benefits there. Marc Bergevin having lots of friends and contacts throughout the league is a plus, having our guys being cherry-picked by other teams is not an unalloyed catastrophe.

      Also, eventually, when we have an opening of our own, it’s not a bad thing to have a Julien BriseBois or a Trevor Timmins out there that we can ask permission to talk to and potentially bring home.

      ———————————
      In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  20. Newf_Habster says:

    My fellow Habsters,

    What is your prediction of the Stanley Cup Final?

    My prediction is LA Kings in 6. :)

    • habstrinifan says:

      Agree! And then Robinson joins Habs staff.

    • TomNickle says:

      Devils in 7. It’s been too easy of a road for the Kings and I feel that their ability to pressure will force the Kings defensemen into mistakes. New Jersey is faster and while not as big as the Kings they aren’t small. Kings are getting way too much hype for getting by the Blues and Coyotes. Full marks for humiliating the Canucks but I don’t feel that the Kings have gotten better as the playoffs have progressed, but feel the Devils have.

      *******************************************
      Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

    • issie74 says:

      Whoever wins game seven,wins the cup.

      NorthTOHab

      • issie74 says:

        Mr Nickel,This is the out come I am hoping for.

        NorthTOHab

      • habstrinifan says:

        Wont go to 7. If LA doesnt win in 6 or 5 then it would mean that NJ has countered LA’S buzz-saw game effectively and thus would win in 6 or less. I dont think LA is a long series grind it out kind of team… not yet. They are on a roll and either the roll continues or they hit a wall.

        Whereas NJ has too much coaching experience and too much grind-out experience on the bench etc that if they are not overwhelmed early by LA’S roll then they willbecome the favourites.

        • TomNickle says:

          Just remember that road wins won’t be easy to come by with the travel schedule. 7 games is probably more likely than anything else. When in doubt, trust the oddsmakers.

          *******************************
          Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

    • Max says:

      Kings in 6 I reckon.

  21. habstrinifan says:

    Just heard Tony Marinaro on TSN990 say that ‘contrary to reports’ Patrick Roy is still very much in the mix.

    Put me in the camp, even if it is a camp of one, who would be very worried if it was Patrick Roy… even fearful that this would be Bergevin’s first mistake.

    But put me in the camp, and I hope it is a camp of many, who would be totally on board if it is Patrick at the head of a trio of Carbonneau and Robinson.
    Especially if there is indication that Bergevin has laid down some strict terms and codes of conduct to Patrick.

    I hope to post a further comment re the possibilit/merits/dangers of Patrick Roy later today. It will focus on two interviews… one by Patrick Roy himself and one by Courteau, the ‘head’ of the QMJHL.

    • TomNickle says:

      Go ahead and trade Price now if Roy is to be named the Coach. I have a bad feeling that if he were to be named coach that the relationship between the two would be awful.

      And why do that to Price? Living up to goaltending expectations in Montreal is ridiculous enough as it is. Put the best goaltender in the franchise’s history on the bench and you’ll end up with a Circus.

      *************************************
      Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

      • Habsrule1 says:

        Totally respect both your opinions, but….
        I really find it interesting how much everyone seems to agree that we want a Coach who can communicate, have passion, and preach offense first, but somehow the fact that these are 3 of Roy’s biggest qualities gets lost on everyone.
        The other confusing thing to me is how negative a spin has been put on the idea of a young goalie working with the greatest goalie of all time. I just don’t get it. You’d think we, and Price would be chomping at the bit finding out that Price may soon learn from the best.
        I’m actually not even sure Roy is the right guy, but mainly due to his lack of experience handling professionals. The other reasons thrown out there just seem ridiculous to me.

        Go Habs Go!!

        “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

        • Chris says:

          Given the goaltenders that Roy has graduated from the Remparts since taking over as coach in 2005-06, I think there is some evidence that suggests Roy’s ability to coach goaltending isn’t one of his primary strengths.

          • TomNickle says:

            Or that he doesn’t feel having an elite goaltender is a requirement to winning championships.

            **********************************
            Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

          • Chris says:

            I think that that is certainly part of it. But his goaltenders didn’t show marked improvement under his watch.

          • Habsrule1 says:

            That’s not really fair, Chris. Nobody knows if the goalies he had could have been turned into elite goalies with anyone else teaching them either.
            He’s not a goalie coach anyway, but I’m certain he can at least provide some advice.

            Go Habs Go!!

            “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

          • TomNickle says:

            Paul, if he can’t develop junior level goaltenders into excellent professionals why should we believe that he can turn an excellent professional into a great goalie?

            ************************************
            Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

          • Habsrule1 says:

            Again Tom…not really fair. If we took every goaltender that passed through the minors and decided that the coaches sucked because they didn’t become elite professionals, I’m sure we could identify a lot of bad coaches.
            If the player is not elite, he’s not elite. Sometimes that is not the coach’s fault.

            Go Habs Go!!

            “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

          • TomNickle says:

            That’s not what’s going on Paul. He’s coached for seven seasons and has yet to produce an NHL goalie unless you consider Cedric Desjardins an NHL goalie.

            Would it be fair to make the same criticism of Randy Carlyle if he hadn’t produced an NHL defenseman as a junior coach? I think so.

            ************************
            Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

          • Habsrule1 says:

            I see your point, Tom. I still think it’s almost luck of the draw to a certain extent. The fact that Roy is part owner and GM makes your point even more valid. He has not obtained or developed a star goalie.
            All that being said, I want to make it clear that I don’t think the Habs should just hire Roy. I think, given he possesses many of the qualities I want in our next coach, he should be highly considered. If his lack of experience as well as his lack of develping a star goalie doom him to not be hired, so be it.
            I can say that if he did have AHL or NHL experience, he would be my #1 choice….by far, regardless of his limitations.

            Go Habs Go!!

            “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

          • boing007 says:

            Roy is a bit too conceited for my taste. A lot like Tremblay was when he coached. Where Tremblay found all that conceit I’ll never know.

            Richard R
            Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

        • ont fan says:

          Other than Martin all we do is hire rookie coaches. Enough already. Pick one with experience and after a couple of years, evaluate the situation.

      • habstrinifan says:

        Wow you sound more fearful than I am. Wished you had commented re the ‘tempering’ factor if the trio as I named them were instituted.

        • TomNickle says:

          I want nothing to do with Carbonneau. Loved him as a player but I’m very disappointed that he threw his best friend under the bus and wasn’t accountable for what got him fired.

          *************************************
          Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

          • 24 Cups says:

            Tom – I agree on Roy and Price. It would be a really bad mix.

            As for Carbo, I thought it was Gainey who threw his pal under the bus only to go behind the bench and find out that he had built a crappy/disfunctional team?

          • issie74 says:

            +1

            NorthTOHab

          • TomNickle says:

            Hey Steve. Carbonneau and Gainey know why the move was made. Gainey had to fire his best friend from a job he groomed him for. Not so sure that Gainey was saving himself there. Carbonneau on the other hand doesn’t want the reason(s) he was fired to get out.

            That’s just how I see it.

            ************************************
            Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

      • Ozmodiar says:

        You’re saying that Roy can never coach the Habs?

        ******************************************************
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        Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
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        brought to you by commandant

        • TomNickle says:

          Not at all. I’m saying that I’m very fearful that his presence alone has a high probability of harming Carey Price.

          ***************************************
          Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

          • Ozmodiar says:

            Wouldn’t that harm any goalie?

            ******************************************************
            Go Habs Go!
            Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
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            brought to you by commandant

          • TomNickle says:

            Probably yeah. The team has a great deal invested in Price. I would be far less concerned if Price were a 5th round pick who wasn’t as close to elite as he is.

            ****************************
            Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

        • boing007 says:

          Who cares if he does or doesn’t coach the Habs? He’s untested so far.
          Give him a shot, sure. He might pan out. If you already think he’s the Second Coming then you’re just living a pipedream.

          Richard R
          Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        Tom, I’ve been baffled by this concept that Carey Price and P.K. Subban will leave the team if Patrick Roy is named the coach. Some couch it in definite, pre-ordained terms. I know you’re just claiming a “bad feeling”, but can put flesh it out a little bit? What makes you think that?

        I find it puzzling that so many believe that Patrick Roy as Head Coach would be on a mission to antagonize and drive away the two players who would be central to any playoff success the team would be likely to have in the next five years.

        ———————————
        In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

        http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Patrick may be enamored at having Price, if he sends him out to fight the other goalie, he will discover Price is a far better fighter than Patrick’s own son. :)

          • Un Canadien errant says:

            Ouch. Okay, can’t argue with history and past behaviour on that one.

            ———————————
            In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

            http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

        • TomNickle says:

          I have no idea what Roy would be like. In his coaching career he’s done a few disgraceful things. I don’t doubt his ability to develop players but I also don’t doubt for a minute his ability to alienate them. He would command respect, which is good. I don’t think that a fire and brimstone guy is the right fit for young men who in a market where hockey is life and death, need stability more than anything else. My opinion.

          ****************************
          Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

          • Un Canadien errant says:

            That’s fair. A tough passionate coach only adds to the pressure cooker in Montréal. Does this mean you’d prefer a Jacques Demers type of coach?

            ———————————
            In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

            http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

          • TomNickle says:

            Somebody who understands the pressure of the market and can keep things on an even keel while focusing on teaching. That’s my ideal candidate.

            *******************************************
            Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

        • SarahMc33 says:

          If anything since he was driven out of town by a bad(understatement) coach, I would think he would try to avoid that kind of issue….

          • Un Canadien errant says:

            That’s my opinion too, but I guess a lot of posters here think he an irredeemable hothead who won’t be able to prevent himself from messing things up.

            I wasn’t always in favour of having Patrick Roy behind the bench, but had an epiphany last season, and have become more convinced as I’ve heard him being interviewed and being thoughtful, respectful, humble, clear and direct. I think he’s growing and has matured as a person, he’s more confident now instead of being possibly a little insecure and compensating with arrogance in his youth. He is evolving as a coach, as Scotty Bowman and Mike Keenan and Ken Hitchcock and numerous other successful coaches have during their career.

            ———————————
            In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

            http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • Cal says:

      Moronaro has no credibility.

  22. Vladdy Mondavi says:

    A bit off topic, but I’ve been waiting for a new 30 Thoughts by Eliotte Friedman for 3 weeks now.
    Does anybody know why he hasn’t written a new one since May 9?

    _______________________________
    Opinions are like kittens, I’m giving them away.

  23. habs11s says:

    Also, what irks me is that everyone pays attention to the first round of the draft and ignores the other rounds. Try to be positive and expect some surprises when we draft in the later rounds because each players drafted has potential, it is up to the player drafted and the team developing the player to arrive at this potential

    _____________________________________________________________

    “How would you like a job where when you made a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?” -Jacques Plante

  24. Ozmodiar says:

    McKenzie on 990: Habs most interested in Yakupov, Forsberg, Galchenyuk and maybe Teuvo. Teuvo will likely be picked ahead of Grigo.

    ******************************************************
    Go Habs Go!
    Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
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    brought to you by commandant

  25. commandant says:

    I see 0 chance Campoli is back next year. When I brought him up, it was as an easily correctable area.

    Go Habs Go!
    Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
    http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

    • 123456 says:

      i would up the chances to 1% because nothing is impossible – but he is not needed. i’d rather have gill and i do not think gill will command much $$

      • Habfan10912 says:

        Interesting 1234. I like Gill too, especially as a playoffs player but I’m thinking MB will be looking forward and to get younger. Diaz, Nash, St. Denis will all be given a chance with ice time. Markov continues to be the key for the teams success I think.
        ———————————

      • Ozmodiar says:

        The Gill interview mentions that he’s moving.

        ******************************************************
        Go Habs Go!
        Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
        http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

        brought to you by commandant

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          A distinction: he’s moved out of his Montréal place and will be in Boston until July 1 at which time he’ll know where he’s headed next season, if Nashville doesn’t sign him sooner or trade his rights to a team that signs him. In the meantime, his ‘stuff’ is in storage in Montréal. Long long shot, but there is still a tenuous connection to our team.

          Not that I’m a big fan of having him back on D, he’s only getting slower and unidimensional, but I would like his leadership and smarts to remain in the organization at the end of his career. If next season is a ‘hold the fort’ kind of season, I wouldn’t mind having him back to play 50 or so games as we transition in the younger guys.

          ———————————
          In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

          http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  26. habs11s says:

    Ok here’s my 2 cents on some issues concerning HIO today

    1) Patrick Kane is a world class talent but seems to be a bad room and character type of guy so I would not try to acquire him.

    2) Do not trade any draft pics unless the deal is too good to pass up, rebuild through the draft is the way to go

    3) Get rid of Kaberle and Campoli. They are past their prime plus it can open spots for young defencemen to get some pro experience

    4) Trade Borque (sp?), he is somehow less motivated than AK46, We should be putting determined guys in our line up not floaters

    5) I hope this series goes 7 games, these teams have been amazing and glad to see great teams reach the final. Also, it is two teams that I do not particularily like or hate so I am just going to enjoy some SCF hockey!

    6) I support drafting Alex Galchenyuk with our third pick

    _____________________________________________________________

    “How would you like a job where when you made a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?” -Jacques Plante

    • shiram says:

      I don’t see Campoli being retained, he has no contract, yet people talk like he is likely to still be a Habs next season, I don’t think he fits in, and there should be better options than him out there, afterall he was a last minute patch…
      Bourque was underwhelming, but if there’s someone out there gunning for him, sure make the deal. But with our lack of scoring depth, I’d give him another chance, afterall last season was not a great environment to succeed in, and he might pick it up with new coach/management.

      Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

      • jon514 says:

        Keeping Bourque is a win/win. Either he returns to form next season, or he kicks off the Tank2013 movement. Seriously though, if we can’t offload him, is there stil room to re-sign Moen? I don;t think you can play Moen on the 4th line, would not be fair to him.

        • shiram says:

          I’m sure they can fit in Moen, and I don’t see why he would balk at playing the 4th, if it’s getting regular shift.

          Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

          • jon514 says:

            I think it’s a waste. Bourque fits into this team if he can play a 2nd line wing role. We have a 3rd line left wing and his name is Moen. If Bourque can’t play on the 2nd line, can’t we trade him and some asset for someone who can?

          • shiram says:

            I just see Moen as a 4th liner, with 3rd line upside.
            Bourque goes to the 3rd to try and find his game.
            I’m sure right now Bourque’s value is very low.

            Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

      • Habfan10912 says:

        I agree Shiram. Yesterday folks were proposing a change in the system might be good for a certain high salaried underperforming player. I think that argument might very more valid for Bourque. Worth bringing back imo.

        ———————————–

    • Kooch7800 says:

      1) agree
      2) agree
      3) Campoli is a FA so no worries he is gone. Kaberle may get traded but if he stays on it isn’t the end of the world.
      4) Disagree. Bourque has had 2 past 27 goals seasons and I agree didn’t show up in MOntreal but the shock of the move playing on a bad team I would give him a shot this season cause he is on a cheap cap hit and he does have the size we need and can go to the net.
      5) I hope NJ wins it. Both teams have earned their way here but Henrique is a local boy from near my home so I am cheering for him.
      6) Agree

      “Like Canadian Hip hop..check us out http://www.groovecontrolmusic.com

    • TomNickle says:

      Patrick Kane, Dustin Byfuglien, Alexander Ovechkin, Phil Kessel, Tyler Seguin, Brad Marchand, Carey Price, Wayne Simmonds, Kyle Wellwood, TJ Oshie, Alex Radulov, Andrei Kostitsyn, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, Mikka Kiprusoff and Jarome Iginla.

      All either are or have been considered “party guys” in their careers. Don’t want any of them?

      **********************************************
      Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I think with Kane there seems to be some genuine concern that this may be more than just partying. I read in the Chicago papers that a source connected to team said they have asked him to seek help. I love the skillset he brings, Bergevin i am sure knows the kid well. If MB were to make a move for him, I will trust he knows the scenario well enough, but I fear maturing alone is not the answer.

      • dicktracy says:

        …and so was Guy Lafleur

        • TomNickle says:

          The list would have grown a hell of a lot larger if I’d included retired players. ;)

          **********************************
          Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

      • habsnyc says:

        A team can have a couple party guys so long as veterans lead by example. It is more difficult when the party guy is the captain or leader of the team.

        I read in Phil Esposito’s autobiography that the Bruins liked to party. Once, Phil flew cross country on an off day to meet his mistress. Esposito’s teammates kidnapped him in his hospital bed to bring him to a team party after they were eliminated in the first round in 1973. Despite the partying, Espo said that the Bruins hated losing but that the players on the Rangers, who also partied very hard, did not care as much when they lost a game.

        I think it comes down to being committed to the team and not letting down teammates. Effort does not show up in the box score. But good management knows which player is meeting their potential. Over the years, Scotty Bowman traded several All-Stars whose play was affected by off ice distractions.

        Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

    • 123456 says:

      i agree with trying to get rid of bourque – he showed me nothing. at the time of the trade i was optomistic and lightening up the cap hit was a good idea – but cammy has 2 years left at $6 and bourque has 4 years left at $3.3…… for the production or lack thereof maybe cammy was the “better deal”. In my book you can not pay a guy $3M for picking up some goals here and there… there are planty of $1M guys who can do that.

      • Vladdy Mondavi says:

        Perhaps with a new coach Bourque will be given clear directives as to what is expected of him and the results will follow… ahhh, who am I kidding… he doesn’t want to play for the CH.

        _______________________________
        Opinions are like kittens, I’m giving them away.

        • habs11s says:

          As someone who had ZERO chance of ever playing profession hockey, nothing boils my blood more than someone who is talented enough to play in the NHL but is either too lazy or unmotivated to show up consistently… what a waste of talent IMO…

          _____________________________________________________________

          “How would you like a job where when you made a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?” -Jacques Plante

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      4) If you’re not sure how to spell René Bourque’s name, instead of taking the time to type a “(sp?)”, just open another window and type the word you’re looking for in Google, and get the actual spelling. This way, you also get to learn how to spell all those words you’re unsure of.

      As far as Mr. Bourque’s future on the Habs, here’s what I posted on the subject earlier this week:

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.ca/2012/05/its-too-early-to-write-off-rene-bourque.html

      ———————————
      In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  27. Chris says:

    I always get a kick out of people already projecting that next year’s (2013) NHL draft is going to be deep.

    Flash back to last summer…the Red Line Report was running articles all the time citing how deep the 2012 NHL draft was going to be. Fans were talking about the depth of the NHL draft. We had the “Fail for Nail” campaign launched.

    By November, things were looking a little less rosy…Red Line Report ran a mea culpa article talking about how the 2012 draft “suddenly doesn’t seem so deep after all” due to injuries to key players and less-than-expected progression by other top prospects.

    Every year, we hear about how much deeper next year’s draft is going to be. MacKinnon has got everybody’s tongues wagging this summer, and rightfully so. But after him, who knows.

    We’re talking about 16 and 17 year old kids and trying to project where they are going to be in a year’s time. All sorts of things can happen between now and then…injuries can fell a player, players can lose their drive, players may not round out physically as they are projected.

    • TomNickle says:

      That’s fair Chris but I think if you take a look at the first round talent coming into next year’s draft that the opening round will yield high end talent well into the mid-late twenties that we haven’t seen in quite some time.

      The draft top to bottom may not end up being as deep as others but the first round really looks like it’s going to be amazing.

      *********************************************
      Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

      • Chris says:

        It could be. I’ve seen a few 17 year olds in the OHL that I think look very good (Max Domi stands out) and of course you’ve got Seth Jones and Nathan MacKinnon.

        As an OHL fan, I’m sure you remember well the relevant example of phenom John McFarland. For those not in the know, McFarland was a highly touted forward out of Toronto, who rose to prominence when he tried to follow John Tavares’ example and get into the OHL as a 15 year old, but was turned down by the CHL. After a spectacular season in the GTHL where he racked up 96 goals and 165 points in 49 games, he was drafted first overall in the 2008 OHL priority draft.

        As a 16 year old, he posted 21 goals and 52 points in 58 games, great numbers for a 16 year old but already a little disappointing given the hype. After that, his progression sort of stalled, and words like “lazy” and “floater” and “dog” started to follow him around.

        McFarland never really achieved much in his junior career despite the early hype. Another similar example is Daniel Catenacci, who was considered the best 15 year old in Ontario in 2009 but ended up as a 3rd round NHL draft pick because his hockey sense and size never quite developed as expected.

        Nathan MacKinnon is seen as perhaps the best prospect in the 2013 draft. He posted 31 goals and 78 points in 58 games, which are wonderful totals. Compare those numbers, though, to recent “phenoms” the season before their draft year:

        Nail Yakupov: 65 GP, 49 G, 101 PTS
        Alex Galchenyuk: 68 GP, 31 G, 83 PTS
        Steven Stamkos: 63 GP, 42 G, 92 PTS
        John Tavares: 49 GP, 40 G, 118 PTS (his previous year was even better!)
        Taylor Hall: 63 GP, 38 G, 90 PTS
        Matt Duchene: 64 GP, 30 G, 50 PTS
        Tyler Seguin: 61 GP, 21 G, 67 PTS
        Ryan Nugent-Hopkins: 67 GP, 24 G, 65 PTS

        Yakupov’s numbers are very similar to those of Nathan MacKinnon at the same age. Yakupov (5’11″ and 190 pounds) and MacKinnon (5’11″ and 179 pounds) are of similiar size. Yakupov has NHL-calibre speed, he has one of the best shots that anybody has seen in recent years and he is, by absolutely every account, an incredibly hard worker and a great teammate.

        But for some reason, MacKinnon is seen as a future superstar while Yakupov is seen as a bit of a poor man’s #1 draft pick. I wonder sometimes if “draft burnout” isn’t a contributing factor (not to mention that so many top prospects in this year’s draft are European-trained). We’ve been talking about these guys for so long that we’re now starting to tear them apart. By the time we get to next year’s draft, I wonder how many of the previously highly regarded prospects will by then be labeled as risks or “solid third-liners”.

        It probably doesn’t help that so many of this year’s top guys are defencemen, as it is always hard to see how defencemen will pan out.

    • Ozmodiar says:

      very true. :)
      “next year’s draft” is always the deepest.

      ******************************************************
      Go Habs Go!
      Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
      http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

      brought to you by commandant

    • Cal says:

      Toe Blake’s: “Predictions are for gypsies” is very apropos.

  28. PrimeTime says:

    A simple question for all the Hab historians……has any player other than Roy ever quit the team??

  29. jon514 says:

    Heh. There is a full foot high difference between Tinordi and Gallagher. Who is gonna be a more valuable player though?

    • Kooch7800 says:

      Tinordi IMO. Gallagher is going to have an uphill battle with his size. he has the skill set and the smarts but Until you do it in the NHL it doesn’t count. Just look at Corey Locke as an example.

      Tinordi has all the tools to be a good D man including size. He may also not pan out but IMHO he is more suited to do well with the tools and size.

      But if everything was black and white we would all be NHL scouts lol.

      DD is a prime example of a small player who plays well. time will tell and I hope they are both greats

      “Like Canadian Hip hop..check us out http://www.groovecontrolmusic.com

    • habstrinifan says:

      I would add the name Bournival to that Trio.

      I would say Bournival, Tinordi, Gallagher. But Tinordi will be the first to make the team cause of specific niche.

      • JF says:

        It is absolutely incomprehensible and shameful that the Habs have had until now no person in the organization whose primary responsibility was player development. Ryan MacDonough even said that from the time he was drafted in 2007 till the time he was traded in 2009, no member of the Habs organization contacted him. Boggles the mind.

        Sorry, somehow this got posted in the wrong place; it was meant to be an answer to the comment below.

  30. stevieray says:

    Sorry for this question but …..So who was the previous Director of Player Personnel ???

  31. shiram says:

    Missed this, as it was posted about 2 weeks ago, but it’s interesting, regarding the NHL versus KHL battle.

    @SlavaMalamud
    And here goes KHL, doing its thing again. The league announces that all returning Russian NHLers will not count against the salary cap.
    Now, each KHL team will be limited to one such signing. Still, this should enable the rich clubs to back up the cash truck to Radulov, Semin.
    1 more caveat on the KHL news. The player would have to be approved by national team coaches as “worthy” to be excluded from salary cap.
    Sources in Russia say that CSKA is very likely to make a big play for Grigorenko. If true, this should plunge his draft stock.

    Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

    • TomNickle says:

      He already left Russia to play in North America. Why would that hurt his draft stock?

      ************************************************
      Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

      • shiram says:

        Because he could get the Radulov treatment and go back to Russia, there is some sense in there, but without knowing the guy personally, who knows?

        Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

        • TomNickle says:

          I don’t buy that as a logical reason to lower a ranking of him. The number of players from Russia who have stayed in North America after being drafted high far outweighs the number that have gone back home.

          *******************************************
          Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

          • shiram says:

            Sure, but the fact that those players returning to the KHL do not affect the cap hit could mean the rich KHL teams can throw ridiculous deals at the young prospects on entry deals, making around 900k a year in the AHL/NHL. I don’t think it’s an extremely drastic change, but it can have an effect. Also note that it’s the KHL team’s words, not mine, so they might be biased on the matter.
            I just like this tension between the 2 leagues, it’s quite interesting to see develop.

            Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

          • TomNickle says:

            He was going to be able to make insane money in the KHL from day one. If his intention was to play in the KHL, why come over to play for the Remparts to begin with?

            I think this is completely overblown. He came over and has expressed his desire to play in the NHL and feels he’s good enough to be the #1 overall pick.

            I also think this is more harmful speculation than anything else. This kid hasn’t so much as hinted that he wants to go back to Russia to play in the KHL. Everything he’s done and said indicates that he wants to play in the NHL.

            Completely different situation than Radulov and Fliatov.

            ************************************
            Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

          • shiram says:

            I don’t see the harm in discussing it on here, and I’m sure teams interested in him have already made their homework.
            So him excluded, it’s still an interesting tidbit in this NHL/KHL battle.

            Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

          • TomNickle says:

            I see no harm in discussing it either. But I’m wondering why this topic isn’t discussed with Nail Yakupov involved in the conversation.

            Isn’t he Russian?

            ****************************
            Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

          • shiram says:

            Hey if you got twitter, you can always ask @SlavaMalamud ;)

            My guess is because of this bit : “Sources in Russia say that CSKA is very likely to make a big play for Grigorenko.”

            I guess they like him over Yakupov.

            Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

          • TomNickle says:

            Hey anything’s possible. It’s that the more I hear and see regarding Grigorenko, the more it appears to me that he’s being targeted unfairly.

            *****************************
            Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

  32. TomNickle says:

    Regarding the draft. I believe strongly that a #3 pick provides a lot of security in that you’re nearly guaranteed to get an excellent player provided you put the right work into deciding who it will be.

    The draft of course isn’t an exact science. Recent years have shown Central Scouting and ISS have given very high rankings to players who have either never made an impact at the professional level or aren’t likely to in the next few years.

    In 2009 CSS had Jordan Schroeder at #5 and ISS had him #14. CSS had Scott Glennie at #7 and ISS had him at #19. CSS had Nazem Kadri at #15 and ISS had him #8.

    Other years have shown significant differences in player specific rankings and more often than not those players are the ones who don’t end up realizing their potential.

    This draft has Yakupov, Murray, Grigorenko, Galchenyuk(I’m including him because his ranking with ISS has dropped due to his injury and surely would’ve been ranked in the top 5 without it) and Forsberg within the top five of both scouting bureau rankings. It looks like any of them will be a safe pick thankfully.

    Players to be scared of include Colton Sissons, Matt Dumba, Nicolas Kerdiles, Radek Faksa, Derrick Pouliot and Henrik Samuelsson. Their rankings between the two services have noteworthy differences. Also something to watch for are players who’ve had their rankings fall or rise significantly from where they were during preliminary rankings and mid-term rankings. Some are understandable where injuries have really limited playing time like Slater Koekkek and Alex Galchenyuk. Others like Daniel Zharkov, Jarrod Maidens and Gemel Smith. And then players who’ve stock came up like Cody Ceci, Thomas Wilson, Lukas Sutter and Teuvo Teravainen.

    This isn’t to say that these players haven’t earned anything. But there are either reasons for their rise or fall.

    Hopefully Trevor Timmins has identified a good group of players who will be available in the second round who have developed at every turn in their young careers. Guys like Cristoval Nieves, Dalton Thrower, Scott Laughton, Michael Matheson, Daniel Zharkov(despite some of his Houdini acts), Esa Lindell, Andreas Athanasiou, Tim Bozon(very interesting prospect) and Tanner Richard.

    ********************************************************************
    Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

    • Chris says:

      Regarding Zharkov, I think he is a player. Good size, great speed, great shot and he is physical. Like you say, he is prone to lacklustre games, but I think he’s going to be a solid player in the second round.

      Tanner Richard is an interesting case. He was passed over in his first draft year last season, and I’m not sure that his performance this past season (13 goals and 48 points in 43 games as a 19 year old import forward) will be enough to justify a second round pick.

      • TomNickle says:

        On Richard, age is a very important factor but it’s worth noting that he’s followed a steady development path. He hasn’t regressed at any point and I think that’s what you look for as much as anything.

        ********************************************
        Our GM doesn’t need to leave his tie undone to create the impression that he’s working hard!

    • New says:

      The thing about drafts is hype and objectivity I imagine. There is a large industry built around hyping the product. The people who can see through the hype and objectively guage a young man’s character, future, and skills are pretty valuable. Then you have to develop that player.

      I imagine it helps to have a lot of draft picks and high draft picks but I doubt it does a bit of good without proper development and ultimately the right coaching at the NHL level. A high scoring player is pretty valuable but if the other team wins all the time it doesn’t matter. Sure fans love Marcel Dionne — at one time even ranting on the Habs for taking Lafleur instead — but in the end who is remembered? The winner of the Cups.

      I think the Habs have done a pretty good job at drafting, a very poor job at acquiring and retaining picks, and a so-so job at developing kids over the last few years. They seem to finally be putting some talent towards the management of the team with the new GM, Dudley, and Mellanby.

      No one from this draft is skating onto the Bell ice and changing the direction of this team next October. The team could carry one and make him look good I suppose but that doesn’t mean they would be an NHL player. The value of guys like Kaberle is that they are NHL players, have paid their dues, and have forgotten more than most of the prospects have yet learned. (Would be nice if he remembered some of what he has forgotten though – but that’s what coaches are for :-)

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Excellent insight here on the draft. We sometimes here on HIO scoff at a Craig Button ranking, or some other ranking that doesn’t seem to make sense. We tend to however give Bob McKenzie a lot of respect when it comes to his list, mainly because it averages out many opinions and tends to be more accurate. This is not surprising, if you have a consensus on a particular pick, chances are reduced that there will be an error in evaluation.

      While it may be tempting to refer to a list that hews more closely to your own opinions (ie: I distrust Alex Galchenyuk because he had an ACL reconstruction, therefore the list that has him at #10 must be more valid), I think you make a great point that could be easy to overlook: especially at the top of the draft, choose the player everyone agrees on, rather than the guy who is hyped by some but who others have strong reservations about.

      ———————————
      In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  33. Newf_Habster says:

    LA Kings a.k.a Philadelphia Flyers II in 6!

  34. aemarchand11 says:

    I had a very odd thought, which could potentially become reality, theoretically speaking, could we not somehow make a deal and pull a Brian Burke a la Sedin??

    1 a) Offer 2nd Round Pick 2012, 1st round pick 2013, Kaberle and N.Beaulieu to Edmonton for 1st Round Pick 2012 and 3rd Round Pick 2012?

    1b) Offer 2nd Round Pick 2012, 1st round pick 2013 and Beaulieu to Columbus for 1st round Pick 2012 and 3rd round pick 2012.

    Theres a definite overpayment there, and as I am sure teams will be talking draft day, if we can somehow manage to swing a deal for two top pics in the draft and have the chance to get both Yakupov and Galchenyuk or Galchenyuk/Forsberg or even Galchenyuk/Grigorenko.. Wow

    Kaberle was a last minute change from Weber, i would think that Edmonton would want a point producing pass-first defenceman for their PP. Soft or not, Kaberle will likely have a bounce back season and is good for 50+pts.

    • shiram says:

      That sounds like bad asset management to me. Habs need those young D prospect.

      Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

      • Habsrule1 says:

        Not to mention next year’s draft is supposed to be better than this year’s.
        I would not part ways with Beaulieu.

        Go Habs Go!!

        “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

      • HabinBurlington says:

        We finally have some extra picks, we have some good prospects and so many people want to start trading them away. Lets just keep slowly building, having lots of good young talent on affordable contracts in the coming years can only help us. I hope we just stay the course. Plug some UFA’s in cheap to help us through and in 2-3 years we start reaping the benefits of these young players.

      • aemarchand11 says:

        We have a lot of D Prospects, our Forward cupboard isnt exactly stacked and needs to be. 2/3 of a first line to me seems like a no brainer and we are addressing our need for the big center as well.

        Kaberle is barely an asset to most, and wiht his cap hit would be perfect to offload. We have Weber, Diaz, Kaberle, Subban and Markov who are all offensive Dman, theres a surplus. Beaulieau will be a good player, but we only took him in the draft as he was the Best Player Available since he slipped. I think if this oppertunity presents itself, the habs are better off in the end. Weak draft or not, 2 picks within the first 3 are still solid.

    • Vladdy Mondavi says:

      Firstly, The 2012 draft crop is generally regarded as a weak draft group and 2013 crop forecasted to be a stronger group, so I think it would be in Bergevin’s best interest to keep the 2013 draft picks we have.
      Secondly, Bergevin has no reason to make a big splash as he’s still in the honeymoon phase.
      Lastly, back when Burke made the moves to obtain the Sedins it was known that they can play together and had chemistry dating back to their days in the womb together. The same can not be said about the pairings you suggest. With the exception of Yakupov/Galchenyuk I don’t believe the others have played together. Perhaps someone in the HIO Commentariat can provide more insight the chemistry these 18 year olds have.

      _______________________________
      Opinions are like kittens, I’m giving them away.

    • nellis13 says:

      Mortgage the team for a couple Russian prospects. Good way to give the downtown night clubs an economic boost in the wake of loss of business due to the student protests.

      • aemarchand11 says:

        Mortage the team???? 2/3 of a first line for a future top 4 defenseman, a player nobody wants one later pick and midround 1st???

        Also, American and Russian which shouldnt matter anyway.

    • jon514 says:

      Beaulieu is not a tradable asset. He’s a big body offensive defenseman who has potential to be one of the best in the game. Trading any of the kids scheduled to start in Hamilton next year for some kids/picks who are a few years away is a step back.

      We need to keep building so a bunch of prospects mature at the same time. Tinordi, Ellis and Beaulieu are as a good a crop of defense prospects as any team in the league can claim.

      Our big problem is that all of our prospect forwards for Hamilton next year are again smallish players who like to be in front of the net. I love Gallagher, but I’m not convinced he’s going to be able to pull a Desharnais and play with the big boys. I’m really hopeful for Holland though, I think that might end up being one of Gauthier’s very few good moves.

    • Rad says:

      Why is everybody in such a panic to trade Nathan Beaulieu? All indications are that the kid is going to be a stud defenseman in this league. He is a year further in his development, has all-star potential, and no less an authority than Rick Dudley envisions him playing 20 minutes a game for the Habs in the near future. He is of French ancestry and has stated he wants to learn the language in Montreal. In my opinion, the kid is untouchable. He is going to be a stalwart offensive defenseman as he patrols the Montreal blue line for years to come.

  35. HabFanSince72 says:

    I don’t follow basketball but I found this interesting. I guess the San Antonio Spurs are the NJ Devils of the NBA:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2012/05/san_antonio_spurs_2012_the_nba_s_most_successful_franchise_reveals_that_america_is_a_nation_of_hypocrites_.html


    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • Chris says:

      That is a very accurate appraisal of the situation. The Spurs really are a role model franchise that doesn’t get nearly enough publicity for their sustained run of excellence.

      The Devils come closest to this in the NHL amongst Cup winning teams, but even they have had drama: coach firings and marquee players bolting for big paydays (Niedermayer, Gomez) followed by a long run of poor results (3 straight years of first-round exits followed by not making the playoffs coming into this season).

      I think the team that perhaps comes the closest to the Spurs in the NHL is a team that hasn’t won anything: the San Jose Sharks. They were a strong contender in an smaller hockey market for a long time, rarely if ever ruffled feathers and generally didn’t garner a lot of attention or respect from media or fans alike. They just went about their business and fielded contenders year after year.

  36. Chris says:

    Regarding the Martin Brodeur vs. Patrick Roy debate: Both guys were great goalies that enjoyed their greatest successes playing for great teams.

    For my money, Dominik Hasek was perhaps better than both. He just had the misfortune of landing on the wrong team and not getting a chance to start in the NHL until he was 29 years old. By age 29, Brodeur already had two Stanley Cups, 286 career wins and 51 career shutouts. By age 29, Roy already had two Stanley Cups, 279 career wins and 28 career shutouts.

    Add something similar to Hasek’s totals (let’s say 250 wins and 35 career shutouts, to be fair), and he is sitting now on something like 615 career wins and 115 career shutouts, very comparable numbers to Brodeur. Let Roy play his career in the same era as the other two guys and I suspect his career numbers compare very well with those of Brodeur.

    The tie-breaker for me is that I believe that Hasek had weakest supporting cast through his prime (in Buffalo). He played for some very talent-weak Sabres teams and posted great numbers.

    • Say Ash says:

      There are three Conn Smythe trophies earned by your group. One guy has them all.

      • Chris says:

        ugh on the double post. :)

      • Chris says:

        In 2002-03, Brodeur faced an average of 31 shots per game, stopped 93.4% of them, posted seven shutouts in 24 games while posting a 1.63 goals against average.

        In 2000-01, Roy’s last Conn Smyth season, he faced an average of 30 shots per game, stopped 93.4% of them, posted four shutouts in 23 games while posting a 1.70 goals against average.

        If you want to assert that Roy’s playoffs were better because he won the Conn Smythe Trophy while Brodeur did not, that is your prerogative. I would argue that both guys had equivalent contributions to their teams, perhaps giving Brodeur an edge because his team provided significantly less goal support (2.62 goals scored per game for the Devils, 3.00 goals scored per game for the Avalanche).

        In Hasek’s case, he did not get a team as strong as Roy or Brodeur until he was 37 years old, the year he backstopped Detroit to the Stanley Cup. His performance was not quite as good as Brodeur’s or Roy’s last Stanley Cup run (1.86 GAA, 0.927 SV%, 6 shutouts in 23 games) but it wasn’t too far off.

        But if you want to play the trophy game, only one guy has six Vezina Trophies from that group. :)

    • HabinBurlington says:

      And he is considering a comeback, apparantly has had some discussion with Detroit and Tampa. In his prime he seemed unbeatable, but I can’t get my head around how much I disliked for no particular reason. No sound argument, just me letting my preferences get in the way. :)

  37. frontenac1 says:

    If you check out those pictures on line of Kane partying,you will see that he party”s like an 18yr old Fratboy.Also after a hard night of partying,he likes to punch out 60yr old taxi drivers.Leave him in Chicago and get Andre K to show him how to party like a man.

  38. Chris says:

    One of my colleagues just got back from the Memorial Cup in Shawinigan. During the championship game, he had the good fortune to be seated next to the head scout from one of the Eastern Conference teams.

    His take on the draft: No superstars, but a clear class of 10 guys that are head and shoulders above the rest. The surprising comment was that he felt that picks 10 through 40 were a complete crap-shoot this season…the draft is very deep with similarly skilled players, so he expects that a player that one team might have ranked #11 could be ranked #40 by another team.

    This suggest that there should be some “reaches” during the draft…could be interesting! :)

    The other comments I got back from the three friends who attended all the Memorial Cup games this year (they are die-hard OHL fans and go to the Memorial Cup every season):

    Jarred Tinordi was a beast…they said he was hands down the best defenceman on the ice in most of his games.

    Their evaluation of Michael Bournival was that he was a bit of a disappointment. While he got his points (3 goals and 7 points in 6 games), they felt he was largely invisible for most of the games. That being said, he was a center playing on the wing, suggesting that he probably had some sort of injury (shoulder?) that prevented him from taking faceoffs. Playing out of position might have befuddled him a bit.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      That is an interesting point Chris, I have to believe that Timmins is in the upper echelon of scouts and this should bode well for the Habs second round picks.

      Really makes you wonder how the Dudley factor will play out. I just find it hard to believe he doesn’t sit down with Timmins and compare notes, I don’t know how you can’t? I don’t say this to insinuate he isn’t a man of his word, but….

      It certainly appears the move to trade up and get Tinordi was a good one by previous mgmt and the advice from Timmins.

      • shiram says:

        Maybe he just keeps mum about the Leafs want and needs, or what they had in mind for their 5th overall.
        I think the issue with Dudley is mostly about later rounds as the order of picks is not as set in stone as in the first round.

        Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

    • shiram says:

      Even this “weak” draft is an encouraging sign in this time of rebirth of the Habs franchise.

      Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Thanks Chris. As usual very interesting and informative. Have read several reports similar to your take on Tinordi. Great news for the future if his development continues.
      I like Timmins in being able to find the gem with the 2nd round pick. He’s
      shown a knack for that in the past, huh? Thank again.
      ———————————–

      • Chris says:

        I’m still hesitant on Tinordi, but the recent evaluations are promising. I still don’t believe he will be in the NHL for at least one season and possibly two, as I think he needs to work on his skating and will need time to adjust to players that are bigger, stronger and faster than the 16-19 year olds he is playing against right now.

        That being said, it sounds like he has come along quite nicely from the guy that I was a bit down on last season after watching him a couple of times, so that makes me very happy. I am always delighted to be proven wrong when it comes to doubts about some of the Montreal Canadiens’ top prospects. :)

    • JF says:

      I agree about Bournival, with the exception of the last game, in which I thought he was outstanding. Tinordi was dominant, but the Habs prospect who surprised me the most was Morgan Ellis. I thought he was excellent positionally; and the English announcers were saying he might be developing a Souray-like shot. A bit over the top, but one can dream….

    • Newf_Habster says:

      Remember that we will have THREE 2nd round draft picks in the 2013 NHL Draft which is going to be very deep. I do not think that it is necessary for the Habs to trade down their no. 3 pick this year; however, we can trade it for 2013 first round draft pick from one of the lowly teams which will probably remain lowly again next year. It means we will have two 1st round draft picks and three 2nd round draft picks in that year. What do you think?

  39. j2w4habs25 says:

    this is the second time LA will be playing against a born Montreal goalie in there 2nd appearence. I wonder if they got what it takes to past through this one.

    even the Great 99 couldnt past the other one.

    Carey Price #31

    • RGM says:

      Neither Patrick Roy nor Andre Racicot were born in Montreal.

      ———————–
      GO HABS GO! Maybe 2012-13 will be our year!
      “Scott Gomez is an elite NHL player” – VancouverHab

      Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

  40. shiram says:

    Apparently, with the signing of Oduya, the Hawks could be interested in dealing Hjalmarsson.
    Should Bergevin go after him? I hear he is soft though.

    Need a new Head Coach? Why not Bykov?

  41. boing007 says:

    Kaberle’s plus minus wasn’t anything to shout about. About even.

    Richard R
    Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

    • commandant says:

      And this is playing most of his games beside Campoli… a similar player to Kaberle (but a worse version).

      Dumb coaching is putting Campoli on his off – side, and pairing him with Kaberle, when the two of them both have the exact same weaknesses.

      I don’t know what Cunneyworth was thinking with that pairing, ridiculously easy for other coaches to exploit it.

      Go Habs Go!
      Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
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      • HabinBurlington says:

        Bergevin having been a journeyman defenceman for so many seasons must recognize the quagmire that was our defence pairings last season. I have to believe he addresses this in building the squad for next year, being able to recognize the strengths in players playing their strong side as opposed to playing their weak side.

        More reason to have some input from who will be coaching the squad next year sooner than later. I can’t really see Ladacouer coming back next season as the Defence coach given what we are finding out occurred.

        • nunacanadien says:

          Never mind what Bergevin has experience in, none of that will matter at any rate, as the Habs Committee to Ruin the Habs will make sure they don’t listen to Bergevin. So far the habs have not sounded like a real hockey team in years. Instead they sound like some highschool hockey team that is run by the school board….politically correct in all the right places but couldnt’ score two goals a night and their prize Prima Donna goalie Price couldn’t keep out one goal to win….in fact Price has a bad habit of giving games away……

  42. HabinBurlington says:

    On the subject of Roy quitting on team. I have long believed a story I heard from a friend who at the time lived in Montreal. I was told that during Roys rookie season he was placed on roadtrips with Mario Tremblay as roommates. It is my understanding that Tremblay was a public supporter of the Seperatist Movement and that Roy was of the Federalist mindset. My understanding was these two players did not interact well at all, and in fact Tremblay became very jealous of all the adulation etc… heaped on Roy.

    Then when Tremblay got his chance as coach to humiliate Roy he indeed did so. Do I think Roy handled the situation well? No, not at all, but when playing on a team where the coach has a personal vendetta against you, this is no easy scenario to deal with. Add to that the complete lack of leadership from Ronald Corey and a GM in Houle who unfortunately was in over his head and the situation exasperated itself.

    While I am frustrated in how Roy dealt with it, the Habs Mgmt and Coaching showed zero leadership at a time when it was needed.

    Edit: I don’t know my story to be fact, but it made sense to me. If someone has information related, would be glad to hear.

    • mrhabby says:

      water under the bridge…so long ago.

    • Habsolutely says:

      From what I remember Roy and the organization put it behind them and made up when they retired his number. I’m not sure why some fans can’t seem to let it go. To some of us, Roy is and always will be a legend.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        He is to me as well bud. I just think by many accounts he gets the raw end of the deal. I have always held the Montreal Organization at fault for how that played out is all.

        • Habsolutely says:

          Same here, I was very bitter at management for quite a while after that fiasco went down. Tremblay was, and is, forever on my shitlist after that.

    • Cal says:

      Steve Shutt, who was an assistant at the time, said he contributed to the Roy situation. After the 1st period, Tremblay asked him if they should give Roy the rest of the night off. Shutt figured that despite the score being 5-1 that the Habs could come back, so they left him in.
      They should have pulled him after the next goal, but didn’t. Roy blew his top. Houle played the court jester by not giving Roy a couple days to calm down and rejoin the team. The rest is the Tragical History Tour.

    • Habsrule1 says:

      I have no idea about your first paragraph, but I can’t stand the quitting on your team thing. Everything I have heard about Roy is that he was a very good teammate and only wanted to win for his team. I’m sure that if asked, no former teammate of Roy’s on the Habs would ever say he quit on the team. He made a big mistake when he was way too pissed off to react, but he did. On the 10th anniversary of it, he was interviewed and said that he thought they would iron things out the next day. He never really wanted to leave. I still have that article on the wall in my office at home.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

  43. ed lopaz says:

    Mike Richards is the “KING” of Pukes!

    His insults he threw at Subban were more than enough for me to never cheer for him or any team he plays for.

    Go Devils!!

    I hope Mike Richards never wins a Cup.

    A puke like that doesn’t deserve it.

    • 24 Cups says:

      Wow, another side of Ed that we’ve never seen before.

      I think Carter screwing another player’s wife would be worse than a racist dig.

      Both these guys lack the class of a Dave Keon or a Pocket Rocket.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        True also, and just another reason to cheer for the Devils.

        Edit: However, in fairness Steve, while that rumour is widely held, it is end of day just speculation. Having said that, Carter is Richards little tag along buddy, so still reason for me to cheer against.

      • Lafleurguy says:

        Lots of players lack of the class of the two “giants” you mentioned.

        “May you live in interesting times.”

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        (I don’t recall the Richards – Subban affair so can’t say that it was racist but …).

        How is cuckolding Scott Hartnell worse than a star making a racist comment? The latter hurts a lot of people.

        The former hurts only one.

        And in any case the total amount of unhappiness in the world was unaffected since Hartnell’s unhappiness was probably perfectly balanced out by Mrs Hartnell’s pleasure.


        Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

        • HabFanSince72 says:

          And then there’s Marty Brodeur’s sexual peccadillo…


          Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Marty was just taking loving your in-laws family to a new level. ;-)

          • Habfan10912 says:

            Can we go back to the beer talk of yesterday? :)

            ———————————–

    • Habsolutely says:

      Same here. I never liked Richards before the Subban thing so that just cemented it for me. I’m rooting for my Montreal homeboy Marty. I’m also rooting for Mini-Gio, Big Bird and DeBoer.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      He is indeed the single largest driving force in why I am cheering for the Devils. Interesting how prior to trade deadline lots of talk in L.A. about trading the Captain Dustin Brown, rumours were they wanted to put the C on Richards.

      Well since then Brown has shown and proven to be a great leader for that team. Richards has played well for the Kings, but he is a ways down the list for key contributors to the success of Kings this playoffs.

      In no particular order Quick, Doughty, Brown have been their leaders.

      • Cal says:

        Without Richard’s 11 points and Carter’s 10, I don’t think the Kings make it by Phoenix, St. Louis, or Vancouver so easily.
        I don’t respect them as human beings, but they are clearly good hockey players. Besides, doesn’t it seem that the sh!ts of the world like Marchand, Chara, Lucic, etc… win things like championships, don’t they?

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Cal, I don’t dispute they have played well, I just don’t think they are the superhero leaders that some in Philly per se made them out to be.

    • mrhabby says:

      i am hoping for the Kings. i would like to see a new team win it for the 1st time. I could care less about Carter/Richards/Marty’s sexual history. its what happens on the ice thats important for me.

    • habs11s says:

      I’m sure David Booth would agree with you..

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIXcGOr4-04

      Richards is a dirty and overrated player…

      _____________________________________________________________

      “How would you like a job where when you made a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?” -Jacques Plante

    • Guy-Guy-Guy says:

      Lets not forget the dirty hit that took David Booth out for quite some time…

      I think I’ll feel sick if I see that guy with the cup… Same feeling as watching Chara & Lucic last year. Thugs with friends in right places seemingly

      -Guy Lafleur smoked between periods. Did smoking give him the relaxation he craved before scoring so many goals?

  44. HabinBurlington says:

    Interesting to note that the “internet source” hockeywriters website makes no mention today of Calgary having a second interview with Hartley, I guess that would fly in the face of their report saying that Montreal will hire Hartley.

  45. 24 Cups says:

    How the Kings were built. The main difference being Lombardi’s trade record.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/how-the-kings-were-built/article2443365/

  46. 24 Cups says:

    How the New Jersey Devils were assembled. It’s interested to note that most of their UFAs were low salary players.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/how-the-devils-were-built/article2445195/

  47. 24 Cups says:

    The Martin and Louie show – can the greatest goalie of all time win a Cup at the age of 40?

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/1202591–cox-martin-brodeur-and-lou-lamoriello-devils-for-life

    • Habsrule1 says:

      Best goalie of all time is coach of the Ramparts at the moment, so I’d say no.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

      • Le Jadester says:

        Well said Habsrule 1 !

        Habs, OLE !

      • 24 Cups says:

        I knew someone would take the bait early in the day!

        I would also put Terry Sawchuk in the mix.

        As for your Saint Patrick, the main difference he has going for him is his three Conn Smythe trophies. No argument there, espeically in ’93. (That was the greaest display of goaltending since Bower and Sawchuk back in ’67). Brodeur counters that by holding all the major goalie records in the book. Then there is the issue of Roy quitting on his team and abandoning them in a time of crisis. His self-centred, egotistical ‘me before the team’ tirade is a lifelong blemish that will never heal.

        • Habsrule1 says:

          The whole “quitting on his team” thing is getting very old. Perhaps Stubbs or Boone can ask some of his former Habs teammates if they think Roy ever quit on them. He made a mistake in the heat of the moment and even said that he thought it could be smoothed over once calmer heads prevailed.
          Roy has more games played and wins in the playoffs AND more Conn Smythe Trophies (3-0), which means he led his team to the playoffs more often and was the best when it really counted. Both the devils and avs had very good teams, but Marty played for the more defensive system, which also helped him quite a bit.
          I think Marty is right there, but give the edge to Patrick.

          Go Habs Go!!

          “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

          • 24 Cups says:

            I only bring up the Roy issue (time after time) to fan the flames and increase the headmaster’s ratings.

            I think all three parties were in the wrong and were guilty of not trying to rectify the situation. Tremblay had a vendetta, Roy was an egotist and Corey was spineless. Poor Reggie Houle (the most misunderstood Hab on this website) was left holding the bag.

        • Lafleurguy says:

          More fuel to fire up fun debate – Ken Dryden, 1971, none better.

          “May you live in interesting times.”

          • Habsrule1 says:

            Roy 1993 playoffs comes awfully close.

            Go Habs Go!!

            “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

          • 24 Cups says:

            Lg – It’s a really tough call.

            I still feel that Roy’s ’93 performance was totally off the charts. So many low scoring games, so many overtime wins after keeping the team in the game. In fact I would state that the Habs have won 23 Cups while Patrick Roy has (won) one all to himself.

            I loved Ken Dryden but the teams in front of him were far superior to those in front of Roy. Dryden’s only real blemish was his poor play in international hockey. He almost cost us the Summit Series and was largely responsible for Montreal not winning the New Year’s Eve game. That was certainly my gut feeling at the time but maybe I should revisit the tapes to see if that assessment is truly accurate.

          • chanchilla says:

            ken dryden has said himself that most goalies dont get to play with a team like the team that he had in front of him. im not saying the guy wasnt an amazing goalie, but you have to put things in perspective.

        • Max_a_million says:

          Players are supposed to be passionate. We all cry out for passion from them. It was the great sin of the Kostistyn’s. We all make huge mistakes in times of passion, say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing, act like a petulant ‘enfant terrible’.

          It is the job of a GM to create time, safe environments, smooth out differences, and makes these things work. Not just throw away assets, when the winds of passion are in their face. The only person to blame for that was Rejean Houle period.

          • Habsrule1 says:

            Good point Max. The same could be said about coaches. We want someone who is a little more fiery and communicates well. These are Roy’s biggest qualities and we don’t want him cause he’s a “hot head”.
            He also happens to preach offense first, which we all want, but we don’t want him?
            The only argument that holds water with me is his lack of pro coaching experience. I think we are missing out on a great coach if he is not considered very seriously.

            Go Habs Go!!

            “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

          • Max_a_million says:

            I agree, and I think we will regret letting him go a 2nd time.

      • Lafleurguy says:

        Unfortunately, Brodeur has been playing at an elite level for much longer, and is less mistake-prone as his career shutout total attests to. No doubt, King Patrick in his prime was the best, and he carried the ordinary Habs teams on his back and ultimately to two dark horse Stanleys. Martin F. is a throwback to positioning and acrobatic goaltending. Patrick spawned the era of butterfly goaltending. Roberto Luongo is conflicted, and now that his skills are waning, is without a distinct identity as far as goaltending style. Carey Price at present most resembles Luongo.

        “May you live in interesting times.”

        • JohnBellyful says:

          Glenn Hall originated the butterfly style, and a few others followed suit, notably Roger Crozier — whose memorable performance in the 1966 Stanley Cup final earned him the Conn Smythe Trophy — and Tony Esposito.

    • Malreg says:

      Ability-wise, I place Hasek above both Brodeur and Roy, but obviously Brodeur and Roy had much better careers.

  48. Thomas Le Fan says:

    I’m pulling for Marty! I’m not sure, however, if losing will encourage him to retire and stop breaking our hearts or if winning will egg him on. Anyway, Go Devils!

    • Habsrule1 says:

      I don’t want anyone confusing Brodeur with the best goalie of all time. Some people may think he is if he wins another Cup.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

      • Thomas Le Fan says:

        Records tend to speak for themselves, I think, and were made to be broken. Longevity comes in to play. Roy isn’t in the running any more. Regardless of whether he wins or not, Marty has proven his worth and your and my desires don’t matter worth a speck of fly poop. He’s probably a nicer guy too. Anyway, at this point, I’m a Devils advocate. Go Marty!

    • Habsolutely says:

      Marty has recently said that he is having so much fun, he doubts he will retire. So we will probably see him for another season.

      • Habsrule1 says:

        True, but that might change if he wins the Cup. Going out on top might sound good to him as well…but the way he’s playing right now definitely makes me believe he’ll come back either way.

        Go Habs Go!!

        “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

        • 24 Cups says:

          If Brodeur wins the Cup he should go out on top. Not many stars have. The two that come to mind are Bourque and Beliveau.

          On the other hand, who am I to say that a guy should turn down another $5M to play a game he loves.

          • Habsrule1 says:

            Well said. That’s pretty much how I feel about it too.

            Go Habs Go!!

            “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

  49. frontenac1 says:

    Go Big Bird! Go Devils!!

    • Habsrule1 says:

      I think it’s more likely Robinson leaves the devils if they don’t win the Cup, so….
      Go Kings!

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

  50. commandant says:

    We’ve gone back to the profiles, looking today at Mike Winther

    http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/05/30/nhl-draft-prospect-profile-52-mike-winther/

    Go Habs Go!
    Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
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  51. JF says:

    I’ve been more right than wrong so far in these playoffs (including predicting a Phoenix-LA Western Final), but I really don’t know what to predict here. The Kings have played four fewer games than the Devils and will benefit from a week’s rest, but even the Devils are coming off a 5-day layoff, so tiredness probably won’t be a factor. The difference could be experience, which is probably why most of the hockey analysts whose predictions I’ve read are going with Jersey. Jonathan Quick will have to be as outstanding as he has been so far; but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Brodeur raise his game. He’s already gotten the better of Henrik Lundqvist, who will probably win the Vezina, and he knows that this is almost certainly his last chance. The Devils have the incomparable Larry Robinson behind the bench; the Kings have Darryl Sutter, who has galvanized a stumbling team and taken them to the Final, and who came within one game of lifting the Cup with the Calgary Flames 8 years ago. He’ll be deternmined not to let this opportunity slip. Size could also be a factor; I think the Kings as a group are bigger and tougher than the Devils. But the Devils’ excellent fourth line was key in their victory over the Rangers; that could be the case again. The Kings have yet to lose a game in the playoffs until they’ve been up 3-0 in a series; it’ll be interesting to see how they react if the Devils take Game 1. I’m going with the Kings, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised to be wrong this time.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Good morning. Unlike you JF my picks are awful with my prediction of Phoenix in 5 leading the way. As a glutton of punishment I’m going to put my prediction for all the world to see. If Marty is Marty the Devils can make this a series. I’m thinking he won’t quite be Marty. Kings in 5.

      ———————————–

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Morning Jim, were your ears burning last night? Rumour has it the storm which hit Montreal yesterday came from your neck of the woods. Props basement flooded, and L got soaked out in the city, it was agreed upon we have a chat with you.

        And based on your prediction, I am now comfortable with Jersey winning. :)

    • Chris says:

      I’m picking New Jersey.

      I think they did a fantastic job shutting down the white-hot Giroux line against Philadelphia, and then made the Richards/Gaborik combination almost completely invisible as well.

      Los Angeles, for all their depth, remains largely a one line team. Take Kopitar/Williams/Brown off their game, and the Kings struggle like mad to score goals.

      The fourth line of the Kings has been fantastic, but so has the fourth line of the Devils, so they are a wash.

      The key will obviously be the goaltending battle (Quick vs. Brodeur, where I give Quick the big edge), but I think New Jersey can win this.

      • JF says:

        Jersey’s fourth line might possibly have been the difference against the Rangers, but the Kings have also gotten timely goals from their depth forwards, including the OT winner against Vancouver from Jarrett Stoll, and 5 goals (I think) from the unheralded Dwight King.

        As far as goaltending goes, the Kings should have the big edge, but I wouldn’t put it past Brodeur to get into the kind of mental space in which he can do no wrong. As I said above, I’m going with the Kings, but that’s mostly because I picked them almost from the beginning; and I’m half inclined to change my selection.

  52. Habitforming says:

    You missed the most important factor…. Referee’s

  53. Cal says:

    In my never-ending quest to demonstrate that Holmgren is a genius, I say Go LA Go!

  54. nickster13 says:

    Brains usually always wins over brawn. Look for the Devils to win based on this. Discipline too.

    “I don’t wanna see Maurice tonight, I want the rocket!”

  55. 24 Cups says:

    Great report, Stu.

    I feel the five day layoff is just what the doctor ordered for Brodeur and the older Devils. The fact that LA has yet to be tested in this year’s playoffs may also be a factor.

    I can’t find the stats but the team that scores first in this year’s playoff games has a huge advantage over it’s opponent.

    • canada4l says:

      Except if you were playing the Flyers, where only one game the team that scored first won.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Kovalchuk has been playing hurt, hopefully the 5 day layoff has helped him with whatever the ailment is. I think he will be the key for Jersey, Quick seems to always play low to the ice and Kovalchuk has that great shot picking top corners.

      Forsure the 5 day layoff helped even out the series.

  56. The Cat says:

    I cannot hedge my New Jersey to win the cup at 20-1 bet, LA is too much of a favourite, I gotta let it ride!!!! Go NJ Go!

    [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

  57. JayK-47 says:

    “The Kings power play is awful, 6-for-74, a measly 8.1 percent”

    Sounds like SOMEONE could use a Kaberle.

    • The Cat says:

      I think Kaberle needs to be marketed differently, Boston got him for the PP and it didnt help, Montreal got him for the PP and it didnt really help either.

      [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

      • JayK-47 says:

        (shhhhhh! you’ll ruin everything!)

      • commandant says:

        Montreal’s PP was around 11% at the mid way point of the season without Kaberle.

        It finished the season at 14.3 %.

        So the PP with Kaberle in the lineup was ~16% and without hm ~11%. Quite the significant difference.

        Don’t let the stats get in the way of your argument.

        Go Habs Go!
        Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
        http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

        • The Cat says:

          It looks better cause it started so low. A regression to the mean was expected. I dont use stats or copy and paste, everything comes from memory, there couldve been more 5on3s, more home games, in that time etc…Going 20 to 25 would’ve been impressive however. Just like a team that wins 5 straight after winning 6 of their last 7 as opposed to one winning 5 straight after losing 6 of their last seven.

          Don’t let hockey get in the way of having a life ^_^

          [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

          • commandant says:

            Its a pure percentage…. the PP with him capitalized about 5% more than it did without him.

            And considering both samples are approximately 40 games… the home/road splits, the number of 5 on 3s, all this is gonna wash out. We aren’t talking a small 10 game sample here where we can see some screwy results.

            I also note that the SHG against were way down after Kaberle came on board. Seeing as we no longer had a forward at the point, its easy to see why.

            Go Habs Go!
            Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
            http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

        • ed lopaz says:

          commandant, I would like to address your “stats” comment above.

          Because people who claim that Kaberle “helped” the Habs power play are simply misrepresenting the stats to suit their argument.

          The WORST power play in the league of 30 teams finished the season at 13.5% effectiveness – Dallas.

          When the Habs were at 11% as you claim, they were so pathetic that it could be argued NOT adding anyone would have still inevitably led to an increase in efficiency.

          2011 – league worst power play % – 13.1
          2010 – worst PP – 14.0
          2009 – worst pp – 12.7
          2008 – worst pp – 14.1

          in other words, it was ridiculous that the Habs were at 11% and extremely unlikely that they were going to stay there.

          The fact that Kaberle ONLY brought the Habs to 16% effectiveness – during the period he was here – is the key number.

          That 16% STILL represented one of the worst power plays in the league for that period of time, and overall is a TERRIBLE NUMBER.

          if the Habs run a 16% power play this coming season, would we be successful?

          to argue that the 16% is a “significant difference” is simply false.

          no disrespect intended here.

          I just think that the Kaberle move FAILED TO IMPROVE THE HABS power play ENOUGH to make a difference, and the 16% is the number we should use to prove that point.

          When the Habs acquired Wiz the year before, do you know what improvement in their power play he brought to the team??

          I believe, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, that the Habs power play with the Wiz was around 25% effectiveness, and was good enough to turn around our season.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            I think end of day, all we can hope for is that the Habs can land a Jackman or Allen as UFA dman this off season. If indeed we can do that, Kaberle can then play 3rd pairing minutes with a big dman helping overcome his shortfalls defensively. Hopefully with new coaches, our powerplay improves and Kaberle can be credited (whether rightly or wrongly) this will then increase his trade value.

            I am not a big fan of the trade, however, playing the right minutes with the right pairings I believe Kaberle can be a marketable player to a desperate GM who needs help offensively from his Defence.

            Ed, you are correct, our powerplay simply put, SUCKED last year.

          • Habsrule1 says:

            Well Ed…your stats are interesting, but I tend to agree a little more with commandant. There is no way to prove your theory that the Habs PP would have gotten better, whether it was highly likely or not.
            What we do know for a fact is that it DID improve, albeit slightly, with Kaberle in the lineup. I actually think he was given a harder time here than he deserved. He put up a few points on yet another new team, in what we now have heard from 2 former players, was a crappy system that did not lend itself to offensive-minded players.
            If he’s still with us come October, I think he’ll be a factor in what will be a decent PP.

            Go Habs Go!!

            “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

          • commandant says:

            With all due respect Ed… your entire premise is based on the fact that the Habs had personnel, outside of the defence, to create a good PP.

            With the injury to Gionta, Cammalleri going AWOL, a rough season for Plekanec, and even the DD – Patches – Cole line being more effective at ES than PP…. there was far more problems than just Kaberle.

            There is also the issue that our PP coach is in Carolina right now.

            So yes, given those factors a 5% improvement is still statistically significant in my mind.

            As I’ve said before and will say again…. Kaberle is still a good offensive defenceman. He was on pace for over 40 assists and about 45 pts in his time with the Habs (pro-rated over 82 games). Do you know how many D in the NHL managed 45 pts last year? 11… from 10 different teams. 2/3rds of the league don’t have an offensive dman capable of that production.

            Yes he’s a defensive liability, but no where close to the level of an MAB.

            In fact the guy he’s most comparable to in the entire NHL… Marek Zidlicky, and you can see him tonight.

            The difference is Zidlicky has a steady, stay at home partner, who brings toughness to the pairing. Kaberle got stuck beside Campoli, which was retarded coaching. You don’t put two defencemen with the exact same weaknesses and make them a pairing!

            Go Habs Go!
            Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
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