The John Scott all-star saga continues with Canadiens now involved

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STU COWAN
MONTREAL GAZETTE

John Scott reported to the AHL’s St. John’s IceCaps on Sunday, but the question remains whether he will take part in the NHL All-Star Game on Jan. 31 in Nashville.

“I wish I had the answer,” Scott told reporters in St. John’s. “I haven’t really heard anything from the league or anything, so I don’t know what the position is or kind of where anybody stands right now. It’s still kind of up in the air.”

The NHL should be ashamed of the way it has handled the Scott situation since fans voted the 6-foot-8, 260-pound enforcer as one of four captains for the All-Star Game despite the fact he played only 11 games with the Arizona Coyotes, picking up one assist and 25 penalty minutes.

In what can best be described as a bizarre trade, the Canadiens acquired the 33-year-old Scott from the Coyotes last Friday, along with defenceman Victor Bartley, in exchange for former first-round draft pick Jarred Tinordi and minor-league forward Stefan Fournier.

The Canadiens will insist that Scott will never play a game for the Canadiens and was a throw-in on the deal that they had to take to make it happen. Which makes you wonder why Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin didn’t just say no? Or at least wait until after the All-Star Game. It’s not like Bartley — who has one goal in 112 career NHL games — is going to solve the Canadiens’ scoring problems. And Tinordi has already spent more than half a season sitting out as a healthy scratch in Montreal.

Why the rush?

Scott was asked by reporters Sunday in St. John’s if he had spoken with Canadiens management since the trade was made.

“I talked with them and we’ll kind of leave that between me and them,” Scott said. “I’ve been around and they know what I bring to the table. If they want me to play up there, I will. I’m just going to come down here and do my job and play my game.”

The NHL asked fans to vote for the four all-star captains — making every player in the league eligible — and now it looks like the league doesn’t want to accept the results. And could the league — and commissioner Gary Bettman — not have anticipated something like this happening when they decided to go with online fan voting?

Whether you like Scott or not, he is the innocent victim in all of this. He has also handled the situation with class — which is more than can be said about the NHL.

Fans have already started a hashtag #freejohnscott and in a poll question on HI/O 71 per cent of the votes as of 1 p.m. Monday said Scott should play in the All-Star Game.

What’s the harm of letting Scott go to the All-Star Game — which has become a joke anyways, now becoming a three-on-three tournament — and have some fun? At least he wants to go, unlike Jaromir Jagr, who was also voted as a team captain and has made it very clear he’d rather be on a beach somewhere on Jan. 31 instead of playing in the All-Star Game.

The NHL and the Coyotes reportedly asked Scott numerous times to bow out of the All-Star Game and he refused. Good for him. Scott said he was looking forward to bringing his family with him to Nashville to “have some fun” and “enjoy the whole show.” 

Scott’s wife is pregnant with twins — due in a couple of weeks — and after he was traded she left Arizona and went back to their home in Michigan while her husband headed to St. John’s.

The NHL sells violence by allowing fighting in the game and Scott is the biggest, toughest guy in the league. But while the NHL seems to love fighting, it now seems embarrassed to honour an enforcer at the All-Star Game.

Something definitely smells bad about this trade and the Canadiens being involved. When asked if he thought there was a consipiracy in place, Scott told reporters in St. John’s: “Everybody talks about this and that and everything else. Every stone goes unturned, I guess, in this league. So I’m not really surprised, I don’t really have an opinion on it. So it’s just one of those things where you can kind of just form your own opinion, I guess.”

When asked if he was surprised by the trade to the Canadiens, Scott said: “It kind of surprised me. Didn’t really expect to be on the market. But trades happen, it’s a business … happy to go to Montreal with the IceCaps here.”

Scott was made a healthy scratch for the IceCaps game Sunday night — a 6-4 win over the Toronto Marlies. One reporter in St. John’s posed the question: “You practised this morning, but you were a scratch for the game. Any particular reason?”

“You’re just the negative-question guy, eh?” Scott responded. “That’s good for you. No, I got in last night fairly late, I haven’t skated in a few days, so I decided … or the coaches said just to kind of take a day off and just kind of get used to the area and stuff and just kind of cool down a little bit.”

When asked what he could bring to the IceCaps, Scott said: “I’ve obviously been around, been around some good teams. Just bring my experience and try to teach you how to be a pro and just kind of guide them. I don’t expect to come in here and play 20 minutes or anything. Be in and out of the lineup like I usually am and just kind of bring myself … just do what I do.”

Scott said he was “obviously shocked” when he learned that fans had voted him into the All-Star Game, adding: “I never expected to go to Nashville or any kind of All-Star Game, especially in the NHL. It was exciting, it was a big surprise. I was happy with it.”

When asked if he had a message for the fans who voted for him, Scott said: “Thanks a lot, it was fun. I appreciate all the support. That’s it.”

The message from the NHL is that the league doesn’t want to listen to the fans after asking them to vote.

And who can they blame for that?

• Habs GM botched bizarre Tinordi-Scott trade, by Jack Todd

• Scott should wear bleu-blanc-rouge at All-Star Game, by Stu Cowan

Canadiens get day off

The Canadiens were given the day off on Monday following Sunday’s 5-2 loss to the Blackhawks in Chicago and there was no media availability.

The Canadiens, who have earned only nine of a possible 40 points during their last 20 games (4-15-1), are back in action Tuesday night when the Boston Bruins visit the Bell Centre.

• ‘We didn’t have any jump,’ Pacioretty says after loss to Hawks, by Pat Hickey

 

738 Comments

  1. Old Bald Bird says:

    Regarding MT: yes there is a good record, a lack of top 6 players, and the Price injury.

    But: is his usage of both DD and Chucky (in opposite ways) enough of a reason by itself to cause dismissal? Is that one thing enough, nevermind any other reasons (and there are others)?

    • SmartDog says:

      What about the worst run of losses since the invention of plastic?

      ————————————-
      Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • Danno says:

      What about his inability to exercise a successful coach’s challenge when everyone else sees it? What about using his slowest and oldest D on the 3 on 3? What about his ruining young talent and making them of no value for a trade? What about sending down the young call ups back to the IceCaps because they are scoring goals and making the veterans look bad… etc. etc.

      T’es Rien Sans Carey Price.

      ________________________________________

      “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”
      Updates, highlights & great discussions on all things Habs

  2. boing007 says:

    If MB and MT talk all time, what was their reasoning for sending Carr back to the Rock? What was lacking in his play that prompted them to bring up De La Rose in his place?

    Richard R

  3. Kooch7800 says:

    @Captain aHab – I don’t get the Carr demotion either. He was playing well and would pot a few goals.

    DLR has had a rough year but is up and now for 2 games ….Charles Hudon had two games and had two assists…sent down…..Halloway leading the Ice Caps in scoring….1 game and 5 minutes of ice on the 4th line

    DLR needs to work on his game in the AHL and we need scoring. MB is just as bad as MT at developing talent.

  4. Ozmodiar says:

    Threadalanche!!!

    Everybody out!!

    Run, run, run!!!

  5. Danno says:

    Is The Cup half full or is it half MT?

    T’es Rien Sans Carey Price.

    ________________________________________

    “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”
    Updates, highlights & great discussions on all things Habs

  6. Ozmodiar says:

    Keep Therrien:
    – he just signed new contract
    – he’s tight with GMMB
    – he’s overall record is good
    – he’s missing his best, and Hart trophy winning, player
    – change will only cause more problems

    Fire Therrien:
    – he’s not managing the young players well (mistakes are unacceptable)
    – questionable line-juggling, player usage
    – scoring has dried up
    – Habs playing worst stretch of hockey since 1940, playoff berth in jeopardy
    – unable to adjust to missing his best player, despite getting decent, albeit un-Price-like, goaltending
    – change is needed to ignite team

    I’m inclined to think they’ll keep Therrien.

    • Dunboyne Mike says:

      Nice and orderly, Oz.

      Doesn’t the Keep argument have to include No coach can win with such a weak Top 6?

    • Kooch7800 says:

      they will keep MT no doubt. I would have never given him that ext. He stinks at in game adjustments and developing kids and relies to heavily on his veterans at the expense of kids development. That is not a long term solution.

      His playoff record alone is a reason to not give him an ext. MB hasn’t impressed me that much in the last year. He caught everyone’s attention with the Vanek deal but since then hasn’t really done anything of significance other than bad contracts and overloading our d which currently isn’t very good but is the highest paid in the league. I wonder what Price’s next contract will be….he should be the highest paid player in the league!

  7. Habfan17 says:

    Response by Roger, to the Reusch Report

    “Great comment by Kevin above. How Therrien treats his players -> last week after the little melee at Gally27’s apartment Michelle Therrien moved Gally27 back to the wing. He basically said he was no good there. When suggested what if he played on the top line with Capt. Max and Gally11. But he threw water on that too saying that Gally27 had no chemistry playing with Gally11. Of course Therrien has made so many different lineup changes he forgot about the EGG line and also does he know what chemistry is and how you get it playing hockey? I think not. The EGG line (Eller + the two Gallys) was a very good line when it was together and it wouldn’t matter if Eller or Gally27 played centre. But Therrien has broken the line up a few times because his little pet needed help. Getting maximum minutes isn’t enough for DD as he must play with Max and Gally11 in attempt to be successful. Instead Gally27 and Eller continued their great chemistry but they NEVER Had a Third member on their line. Therrien didn’t want Semin on his team and set him up for failure and just too bad for the other two Linemates. After a revolving door of attempts to keep a member on that line for more than a period they finally found a guy in young Mr. Carr. The line was playing well and producing more then the top two lines but that didn’t sit well with Therrien who has no like for Eller or Gally27. All year he has listed that line as the #2 line in the lineup yet they play less minutes than the top TWO lines. Yes, he plays DD’s line ahead of Gally27’s in both regular TOI and the PP. Therrien created this losing streak. After losing a game on Saturday night at home Therrien announced to the press that Gally27 would be teaming up with Capt Max to play on the top line. The next game was at home vs Boston on Tuesday night. Before the game there was lots of talk about the two big guys playing together. So when the game started I expected to see Gally27 at the opening face off. Instead it was Pleks line out there.nthe next line out wasn’t Gally27’s it was DD’s line and then finally Gally27’s. The team had a chance to blow out the Bruins in the 2nd period but Therrien was happy to play his favourite game – Chip and Chase. Long story short the Bruins overcame their 2-0 deficit in the Third period and rolled by the Habs. The streak had begun. Gally27 played just over 14 mins. on the ice but Capt. Max played almost 20 mins. The next game the following night in Detroit was much the same. The Habs lose and Gally27 plays less than 14 mins, Capt. Max almost 20 mins. Andro the third member clocks in just over 11 mins. The next game is at home vs Ottawa and surprise Gally27 and Andro were back officially to the Third line as Capt. Max is back with Pleks on the real Top line. That’s how Therrien works. The players he doesn’t like he ensures they are set up to fail. Creating chemistry is just a myth surrounding Therrien. This is a coach where the game is played too fast for him. He can’t or refuses to make adjustments during a game and if he does it’s always too late! The 2nd period on Sunday night was a perfect example of that. Missing two obvious attempts to have goals overturned while he was deep in thought on something other than the game at hand. Maybe he was thinking about the Powerball craze? The man must go and it needs to be now. This team will never play in the Cup finals as long as Therrien parades behind the Habs bench. They had their best shot of getting there last spring after Carey Price had the season of all seasons. But Therrien helped the team fold in the 2nd round after almost being eliminated in the 1st round. So Bergevin needs to place the success of the team over his friendship with Therrien. If he can’t he should resign. He should have fired Therrien after our playoffs loss to Tampa. He then should have pursued FA Coach Mike Babcock with everything at his disposal. Instead, this fall after winning a number of games over weaker competition he extends his frien another 4 yrs. what a joke….oh wait the Tinordi deal was a joke telling everyone that we had a surplus of defenseman so we HAD to trade Tinordi for another defenseman and a career 1 goal player. How did that help this team?

    As for the author dissing Guy Boucher……that’s great that you can slam him but let’s be factual and explain why he was let go from the Swiss team. Also during the Christmas holidays he coached the Canadian team in winning the Championship. You never mentioned whether Therrien has been asked to coach a Canadian team in International play? I’ll save you the trouble -> Never! Thank goodness for Canada or the embarrassment would have affected the whole country about this laughing stock of a “Coach”.”

    Habfan17

    • Paz says:

      Guy Boucher in the same room with Therrien answering questions about tactics, about managing players, about communicating, would be a joke.

      People here have no clue about Guy Boucher.

      If he is hired to coach the Habs these ignorant critics will be shut down instantly.

      In my opinion, of course. 🙂

      • Kooch7800 says:

        I don’t think we will see a change until the offseason if there is one. MB screwed up with that ext and I am sure Molson isn’t thrilled at the moment with it

        Boucher is better at developing young players so I would love to see it happen. I think MT & MB has hurt us in that department.

        MB’s over does the Depth on D at the expense of our young players development

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      I’m old. When I come to a giant wall of text like that, I can’t seem to track it. I need line breaks.

  8. truebeliever says:

    Not really sure what Drouin is up to, but his stock must be tanking faster than the TSX. He has 3 points in 7 games in the AHL. He had 8 points in 19 games in the NHL. Maybe he’s trying to force Stevie Y’s hand, or maybe Drouin just isn’t as good as he thinks he is.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      you would think Drouin would be dominating in the AHL if really wanted out. Scores two goals in the first game and then has one assist in 5 games? Not good.

      Daniel Carr is better than that.

  9. SmartDog says:

    Just heard a stunning stat. Since Dec. 2nd Habs have gained the lowest points in the league: 9. The NEXT WORST team, Buffalo, picked up 17.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  10. JohnBellyful says:

    The Canadiens sit at 13 in the overall standings but with the fan chill it feels like 28.

  11. habs_54321 says:

    the biggest failure of MB is not fixing the development/coaching staff in the AHL they have been dreadful since day one and we are seeing the results now with a major lack of impact from any prospects despite 5 years of drafting and developing, (other than a few flashes from ghetto and carr but not nearly enough) MB should have canned lefebvre in saint johns 3-4 years ago

  12. Captain aHab says:

    @Hobie

    But there is a cheap option called Carr. I have no idea why he was sent down. None. The guy was scoring in the AHL and got called up and proceeded to keep scoring in the NHL. Then he was inexplicably sent down…and STILL scores.

    I. Don’t. Get. It.

    Is it that they’re afraid he’s showing up the vets? Is he a cancer in the room? Does he, gasp, drink beer? Is he THAT bad defensively that you can’t have his goals despite struggling to score?

    When MB said that if the kids forced him to, he would make space for them, I would think this would be one of those situations.

    —————-
    Prepare to be boarded!!

    • shiram says:

      That’s on Bergevin though, he makes the roster move.
      But yeah that was a serious puzzler, the days before he was sent down I was telling a friend I was expecting Carr would get the call to get an apartment in Montreal.

      _________________________________________
      “The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears that this is true.”

      • Captain aHab says:

        Sure but wasn’t he moved to the fourth line in his last game? Was he expected to score at a goal a game pace to be allowed to stay on the two top lines? That’s on MT.

        I don’t mind Therrien that much but he does make puzzling moves sometimes.

        People say that Holloway is too slow for the NHL. MB already knew that Semin was too slow and he still got far more of a shot than Holloway did.

        The Habs are craving for goals and have been for a good long while now. Why not give prolonged tryouts to guys like Holloway and Carr on the top two lines?

        —————-
        Prepare to be boarded!!

        • shiram says:

          There’s plenty of blame to go around, that is for sure.

          Now DLR gets his chance, another 2-way grinder type that does not generate anything in the offensive zone, for the most part.
          _________________________________________
          “The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears that this is true.”

        • boing007 says:

          It’s more than puzzling that Carr was put on the fourth line and finally sent back to Newfoundland when he was showing so much promise. It boggles the mind.

          Richard R

  13. BOLDBILLY says:

    All this stuff about let’s wait UNTILL price gets back then we will see what we have as a team…..SERIOUSLY…….If you can’t win 50% without him then there is another problem! No think I’m wrong…..okay how about 40%……..Oooops we didn’t do that either…….okay right I’m unreasonable. 30%….,,,oh dear not that either…..

    I think expectations were not that high 5 wins more and we would be in the thick of things and to blame this on the goaltending which I agree has not been stellar, well frankly is wrong…….it’s our pop gone up front scoring mostly to blame when you average just under 2 per game during that stretch….yikes we are where we belong

    Dammit Jim I’m a doctor not a mason

  14. SmartDog says:

    @UCE
    Your post below about Therrien, for me, gets it wrong.

    You start by saying that “there are no great fans of Michel Therrien here”, evidenced in part by the angst that accompanied his hiring.
    Whatever happened during his hiring, what happens more recently when you post a negative comment about Therrien is you get shouted down with “his record” and accused of having it in for him.

    Of any time in Therrien’s current term, a call for his firing NOW makes some sense with the worse run the Habs have had in over 70 years. And whatever his overall record, what’s his record in the playoffs?

    Personally I also don’t accept Therrien 2.0 as being so different than Therrien 1.0. It’s obvious that Therrien is a very capable hockey man – you don’t get to where he is without being that. But I see a guy who’s like a dry drunk. The same issues are there, but cloistered. I still see a guy whose communication skills just ain’t great, whose temperament does not help the team, and whose preferences and biases are very obvious – and work against the team. I see a guy who makes mistakes, but instead of falling on his own sword, finds a player he can point to and blame instead.

    When Therrien puts a young player on the ice everyone says “see – he likes young players!”. That’s ridiculous because of course he has to use young players and of course some of them he likes. But when he benches Pateryn for a small mistake and ignores the mistakes of Markov (many, many mistakes this year), we’re seeing a pattern. When Therrien came out in September and said he won’t do much line juggling many people cynically said “sure, wait to see how long that will last”. I wasn’t one of them – I had more faith than that. But I was wrong and they were right.

    Therrien is what he is. And he’s a good NHL coach. So was Ron Wilson, or so it seemed when he turned a failing San Jose Sharks team into a regular-season dynamo for 8 years. But couldn’t get his team deep into the playoffs, was canned, went to Toronto, didn’t have success there, and will probably never coach in the NHL again. Coaches are judged by their record. Their record is more than one thing. It has to be a whole picture. The thing about the Therrien-defenders is they don’t want a full picture. They don’t want a conversation. They want to talk about one number – regular season wins – and they want the other person to stop. Stop posting, stop griping, stop complaining, and stop thinking. But those things are a big part of what HIO is about. Dialogue, interesting, or entertaining – that what we want.

    And that’s my problem with the Therrien-ists. But it’s no shock that many of these “Therrien defenders” seem to have the same kind of communication acumen that he does. The only surprise is to see you among them.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  15. Paz says:

    If you add up the Cap spent on defence, Habs are spending way too much on their 6 dmen compared to their forwards.

    The balance is not there.

    Many of the posters here were very critical of Bergevin for this. They argued that there would never be enough left over to build a legitimate top 6, and they were right.
    That’s why Bergevin was hoping that Semin, Kassian, and Fleishmann would produce miracles for pennies on the dollar.
    Bergevin did not balance his Cap spending effectively. He left the team with scoring holes throughout the lineup.

    Then, Bergevin left the team exposed in the event of a Price injury, by again not having enough money to spend on a proven backup goalie.
    Where was the contingency plan in case of an extended Price injury? Price has been injured every year since Bergevin and Therrien took over. I like Mike Condon. I disagree that he has been playing badly. But certainly he doesn’t have the experience to be anything more than a back up at this time in his career.

    That’s why I don’t think Therrien should be fired. Not because I like the coach, because I don’t.
    But, because, if Therrien is fired, Bergevin should fire himself on the same day and walk away.

    This team is not built to win without Carey Price. That’s on the GM.

    • shiram says:

      Markov has a no trade clause.
      Emelin has a no trade clause.
      Petry has a NMC that turns into a NTC, and Subban will get his NMC starting next season.

      He’s set it up so he can’t change his defense-man either.

      _________________________________________
      “The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears that this is true.”

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Some valid points Ed, i guess i just wonder how much perhaps the two discussed these signings and perhaps MT also wanted these dmen.

      But complete agreement we are way overspending on our defence. That is the difficult part if a Beaulieu is traded, one of our better dmen on a great contract would be gone.

      The reality is that this team cannot afford to have all of PK/Markov/Emelin/Petry in the lineup, just too much money tied up. It is up to MB to move 1 or 2 of these players. Not from a quality of play perspective, but in order to manage the cap.

      As for whether MT should or should not be fired, I still would hope MB has had some real good talks with Price and the other fellows wearing letters.

      • Paz says:

        Will never know what they discuss and what they don’t, of course.

        But Bergevin is held accountable for the roster. It’s his final say.

        I’m a big believer in that concept in business. You have a job description with specific tasks. You are accountable for those.

        GM controls the roster
        Coach controls the lineup on the ice.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          No disagreement here on the accountability.

        • Habfan17 says:

          100 % agree on accountability, and having so much money and NTC/NMC with defencemen. I will cut MB a little slack regarding Price. MB does not have a crystal ball and could not have known Price would go down, for how long, or that he would go down again. We also don’t know, he may have tried to get other goalies, and the ask was too high. GM’s knowing he is stuck without Price, probably saw a chance to over ask in a trade.

          Habfan17

          • boing007 says:

            Not so sure about that if it’s the same injury that keeps Price in the infirmary. He played injured at the Olympics, was crashed into by Kreider. Injured twice this season. He is becoming too susceptible to injury and is quickly becoming a fragile goaltender. MB didn’t notice that and take that into consideration?

            Richard R

    • Ozmodiar says:

      I wonder what MT would have thought or said if, before the season, MB told him – “your 3rd pairing is going to be Pateryn and Tinordi.” That would have been cheaper, but would the coach have liked it?

      I also wonder if the premium spent on defense precluded a trade or free agent signing. Would they have tried harder to sign Williams or Frolik by offering them a bit more money? Perhaps it’s just an ebb and flow of salary, whereby in a couple of years that money (Markov, then Emelin’s) will shift over to the forward group (FA, Max / Galchenyuk re-signing).

      • Paz says:

        I suggested all summer that I preferred Pateryn over Gilbert.

        And then they kept both Pateryn and Tinordi and Therrien refused to play either of them, so that was on the coach.

        It’s just such a freakin mess.

        Such bad management of the roster and the lineup, actually, they both deserve to be fired.

    • Lapointe says:

      Why do you support a coach whom you admit you don’t like ? MT is MT and unfortunately so is MB…yes that uncanny genius of a GM who strikes fear in the hearts of all other 29 GM’s and who is idolized by some on here in a Godly like fashion is only a mere average GM if that. Look what he has done…..really he has rarely made any outstanding decisions of a positive nature….he is an un-experienced hockey GM that was over hyped by his association with Chicago. Mt is the same old defense minded coack who wants to prevent goals and take the team to the last minute of play 0-0….it is boring and I am sure it doesn’t invigorate the fans at all…except of course the ones that will close their eyes to the facts. This team is boring and soft.

  16. 24 Cups says:

    Here’s a great Glen Frey quote:

    “I spent a lot of years where my health centred around burgers, booze, blow and broads”.

    (For the record, Frey died due to complications from rheumatoid arthritis, acute ulcerative colitis and pneumonia).

    Glen Frey – gone but not forgotten.

    148/84/26

  17. 24 Cups says:

    The voice of reason weighs in on the present state of the Habs.

    http://thereuschblog.com/?p=39839

    148/84/26

  18. Captain aHab says:

    My last bit about the Tinordi thingy:

    I don’t know why but the Habs just, CLEARLY, wanted him gone. According to Lebrun, MB had been trying for three months to trade him with no takers. Maybe he was asking for a 1st rounder in return but judging by what he eventually got, I doubt it. Maybe for a week or two but not for three months. People say that Tinordi would have been snagged off of waivers if the Habs had put him there. Are we THAT sure of that? Any team picking him up would have had to keep him in the NHL and judging by how little people cared to trade for him, I think there’s a good possibility he would have gone through. I think MB knew this and really wanted him gone and off the books. Maybe Tinordi senior was starting to threaten a more public campaign for his son…who knows? Maybe if he does pass waivers and goes to the AHL, the dad was going to go balistic?

    And UCE asks why MB simply didn’t say no to Scott. MB is a cap maniac so I’m sure he said no and that Maloney may very well have said….OK well keep your boy then. MB wanted Tinordi gone so he took Scott.

    I don’t like what’s happening to Scott but I’m pretty sure this trade is more about just how much the Habs were done with Tinordi.

    It’ll be really interesting to see just how much Tinordi plays going forward. Will he turn into something good or will he be Ryan O’Byrne 2.0? I’m betting on the latter. So is MB.

    And it’ll be interesting to see just how much Bartley plays. Unless there’s a trade, I’m just not seeing him playing much at all.

    —————-
    Prepare to be boarded!!

  19. Hobie says:

    Heard Mitch Melnick on TSN 690, I know about half don’t agree with his stance on Therrien but it’s hard to argue.

    The Habs did not lose to the Lightening last year in the playoffs because of Therrien nor did they have trouble scoring goals against Ottawa at his expense. They guy has very few weapons to work with.

    Ottawa, a team that spends $20 million less than Montreal on players has as many gifted offensive players up front and TB has substantially more. Other parts of the Montreal team are as strong or stronger but there is zero argument that they aren’t seriously lacking some pop up front.

    If you give Therrien a legitimate top six, with the defence he has and with Price, there’s no question, in some peoples’ minds, that we’d ever be talking about the coach.

    So after three strong seasons behind the bench, we’re really going to fire the guy when he’s had a couple garbage goaltenders in net and a very weak group of forwards during this swoon?

    It might happen because trades are very difficult to pull off. It might pay dividends at first because it usually does but before long I find it hard to believe, unless our roster is vastly improved up front, that anyone comes in and does a better job than Therrien.

    • shiram says:

      But he managed to get the top offense in the League out of the same group of players for about 2 months, and things are not looking up even with Gallagher and Weise back in.

      There are serious issues with the coaching staff, and some that persist from last season or older, like the powerplay.

      If they keep losing something will have to give, either a trade or some assistants might start to go.

      _________________________________________
      “The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears that this is true.”

      • Hobie says:

        I think are three things that constitute a good PP. The game plan, the ability of the players and willpower of the players. The latter two are a serious question marks for me.

        Put the damn puck in the net! You can only blame the coaching staff for so long.

    • thehockeyphilosopher says:

      Simple answer: he gets fired because he is not getting results with what he’s been given.

      Before this slump we had:
      -Norris winner and superstar PKS76
      -40 goal scorer and Wolverine MP67
      -relliable and super smart two way forward TP14
      -speedy, net-crashing, never say die BG11
      -the Dutch Gretzky, DW22
      -the Flash! Yes, he was being called that by many here, TF15
      -a supposed number one center in AG27 (see all the pissing and moaning about not developing him as a center from the get go and such)
      -and other cast members who have been touted for their great skill and complementary quality to the team, remember all the fuss when JP26 was acquired!!

      My goodness, what tools is MT00 missing that his PP sucks almost always? What about how the team nose dives at the loss of Price? Surely that one loss alone shouldn’t cause that much damage if this coach is so damned good!

      No Excuses, right?

      I am done with MT and his mismanagment of these players. Another strong right winger would be great, but when I play blackjack I find myself saying wouldn’t it be great if an Ace came up next quite a bit. MT needs to motivate this team to win and needs to use a system that works for them where they are at right now.

      • Hobie says:

        The Dutch Gretzy lol?

        Plekanec had like 1 goal in 25 games or something, that’s Therrien fault right? Subban can’t hit the back of the net this year, that’s Therrien’s fault right? Galchenyuk is out parting until 8am doing god knows what, and that Therriens fault right?

        Last time I checked, you need six players to make a top six. Montreal has four.

        • thehockeyphilosopher says:

          Chicken and Egg problem we have here.

          Is it the coach or the players?

          Our coach (and most of the commentariate here) seem to have no problem with partying till 8am. It’s all milk and cookies 😉

          But seriously, PKS76 can’ hit the net, and that is a problem. Why is it? Look at his mechanics. They’re a mess. He’s fallen over on his last two goals even. Does this guy get any coaching how to do a one-timer? Is the coaching any good? Does he listen to the coaching?

          I think it’s chicken and egg, coaches and players that are screwing this all up right now. Which is why I am for MT00 being fired and a bulk of the players being shipped out.

  20. Slack says:

    Woke up to some very interesting posting by my man UCE.

    I’d like to chime in and say that I tend to look at the stats after games, and the Habs typically out-shoot and out-possess the opposition. The fact that they churn out these shots and still maintain such a low shooting percentage is a testament to the fact that they are running into some very hot goalies and they are just not getting those favorable bounces.

    Over that span, they are 10th in high-danger scoring chance % for. These aren’t just shots from anywhere. These are shots that are dangerous. Shots that could easily be goals.

    The Habs have no support in goal. I’m going to continue to toot that horn until I am proven wrong.

    The silver lining is that these kinds of numbers are historically unsustainable. The Habs fortunes should improve in due time (like, now)

    ———————————————————
    “… another beer is what I need!”

    • shiram says:

      Man I hate relying on ‘regressing to the mean’.

      _________________________________________
      “The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears that this is true.”

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      Forgive me because I don’t know.

      Are scoring chances all the same, or are the just measured from where the shot originated?

      Two people could shoot from the same spot, but the circumstances could vary greatly. One could be a clear shot on net while the other could have been hurried in heavy traffic. I see a lot of those with the Habs — hurried in heavy traffic. I feel that I see clearer and less rushed shots against the Habs, but I may be wrong.

    • Lapointe says:

      Slack you will never ever be proven wrong…believe that.

  21. Cal says:

    Is McCarron, or all of the IceCaps going to be “protected” by Scott? Is this simply the reason for getting him? Or was JB right? http://johnbellyful.weebly.com/

    Bergy, you have some splainin’ to do!

  22. BOLDBILLY says:

    As I’ve said from the very beginning this happened …..Bergevin needs to explain his actions in this John Scott affair……He has embarrassed the CH ….. Everybody believes there is an underlying scandal……I am totally disgusted that they have dragged themselves into this garbage seriously Victor Bartley for Tinordi and Scott was the throw in otherwise it wouldn’t have happened and we are all supposed to believe that? And if that is the case you should be fired….for this and your stupid Prust blunder……disgusted fan and disillusioned……Thought Molson stood for better
    Dammit Jim I’m a doctor not a mason

  23. thehockeyphilosopher says:

    Someone posted below the thought that for most (if not all) players, this is a job. They also suggested that because it is a job most players will choose money over a Cup.

    Two things about this idea, which I think is interesting to explore.

    1. This so-called job is still a game fundamentally. These guys get paid to play. And I mean “play” in it’s most childish sense. These guy get to do recreation for a living.
    2. Choosing money over a Cup make sense since winning a Cup has so little meaning invested in it other than i) doing well enough in regular season to qualify for a chance to play for it, ii) doing well enough in the tournament to actually get to the final round and play for it, iii) doing well enough in the actual final round to win it. So it is a relative measure of success. At best, it marks the relative amount of success your team had.

    Pretty sad to think of the billions of dollars people throw at paying to watch grown men play a recrestional activity to have a chance to win a relative marker of success. Seems pretty shallow to me.

    So when we see PKS76 say he doesn’t get paid to score goals and the piss poor play of a deflated team around him, we can realize, Hey, it just a game and at the end of the day everyone still gets paid.

  24. trade_centre says:

    Excellent stuff UcE.

    Agree with everything except one thing: the rednecks don’t deserve such a calm reasoned response to their braying.

  25. munch17 says:

    Given how bad is the Habs are without Price would it be safe to say that pretty much any team that has him as their Goalie would make the playoffs and possibly make it through the first or second rounds?
    As for Drouin he has not accomplished anything and is not dominating in the AHL. Hopefully, if they are looking at him, they are not giving up too much.

  26. trade_centre says:

    So now Maloney says he didn’t trade Scott to exclude him from the all-star game:

    “I was really surprised (TSN’s) Bob McKenzie suggested we might be working with the NHL to keep John Scott out of the All Star game,” Maloney said via text. “I found it incredible someone might believe this. The NHL doesn’t run our team nor (does it) have any influence on our player decisions.

    “We had to create roster room (given our addition of Kevin Connauton) and find a way to add Tinordi’s salary. Scott was the only option Montreal would take to make this deal work.”

    http://arizonasports.com/story/523574/yotes-notes-coyotes-waive-downie-maloney-responds-to-conspiracy-theories/

    Not that you can believe him, but why would Montreal have wanted Scott?

    The other interesting tidbit from that link is that Phoenix now have 8 non-waivable defencemen on their NHL roster. Tinordi might have traded one press box for another.

  27. WindsorHab-10 says:

    Shame on Bergevin for accepting the deal to bring Scott knowing that he will not play for the Habs. Not only was this totally unfair to Scott & his family but a disgrace to this once pride franchise. What bothers me is that Bergevin had to accept it or the deal would not have gone through. What did we get for our #1 draft pick?

    • shiram says:

      Really crappy move by Bergevin, whom I thought would be above such things.
      If anything, steer clear of controversy, now he looks as dirty as Bettman and co.

      _________________________________________
      “The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears that this is true.”

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      The optics aren’t good because of the All Star thing, but OTOH all sorts of deals are made for minor league players. Maybe he wants Scott in SJ for a reason. Maybe he also wants him on standby for the Habs. There are things we don’t know at this point.

    • Dust says:

      ok, here is the thing. Arizona wanted the same amount of contracts going out that was coming in. Scott doesn’t make much money, and isn’t good enough to play in the nhl. He has been up and down all year. He was a throw in to make the contracts work in this deal.
      I don’t feel sorry for Scott. I think it’s ironic that the fans that voted him in as a joke to pretty much embarrass him are now upset that he is in the minors….where he belongs.
      As far as i am concerned, Shame on the fans who did this. If you don’t care about the all star game than don’t vote. There are lots of kids who love the Allstar game. Idiots who voted for Scott ruined fan voting, and tried to ruin the game for the kids who really like the allstar game and seeing all the stars together

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        Agree, Dust.

        Since there are always idiots, I wonder can fan voting (in anything) ever work. It’s a nice gesture (as well as good marketing), but it can lead to a Scott situation. I have to say I like the way he personally has handled really horrible circumstance, but, like you, I am no fan of Scott the player.

        Other ways of voting for the ASG all have their own risks and liabilities (fellow players, the hockey media, etc). I mean, look at the Academy Awards — no one seems to care too much, but at the same time I don’t think anyone believes it’s fair and balanced.

        (I’m a teacher, and I confess to doing a Florida Chad Job on a ninth-grade class rep election because “John Scott” was winning!)

    • boing007 says:

      Not a helluva lot.

      Richard R

  28. BC (Because of the Cats) says:

    @UCE

    Good defence of Therrien. I have defended him right from the start — despite his gruffness, his lack of eloquence in either language, the mannerisms you mention. He learned from his first experience coaching here, he’s gotten results, he motivates his players, he defends them most of the time, he knows when to utter cliches and when to actually say something. I continue to defend him in the face of some questionable decisions and of the lack of results at the moment. The team must be demoralized, but he still has them playing hard most nights. I can’t criticize the effort against either Chicago or St. Louis. The players have not quit on him.

    Until Price comes back, I don’t think there is any change, coaching or otherwise, that Marc Bergevin could make that would significantly improve things. Without Price, the team is simply not good enough. Our goaltending is below average and we lack offensive punch. Marc Bergevin and Michel Therrien must be as well aware of these facts as the rest of us. But if the team can stick together and go on playing hard despite the mounting losses, Therrien could well survive. They could even emerge from this mentally tougher. If, on the other hand, the players end up quitting and coming apart as a group, Therrien will have to go. But I see no signs of this for the moment.

    As you say, Bergevin gambled, with the goaltending situation when Price was injured, but also over the summer with his low-cost, low-risk moves to boost the offence. It’s a little singular that none of these gambles paid off. Offensively we’re where we were last year (discounting the great start), and the goaltending isn’t good enough.

    I still defend Bergevin as well as Therrien. He’s done a great job the last three years of improving the defence and the bottom two lines and adding depth and balance. And he’s done this without giving up much. I know the Tinordi trade is bizarre, but, unlike many here, I never thought he was going to develop into much (but good luck to him in Arizona). The problem for Bergevin is that the moves he still has to make are the toughest. Elite offensive players are hard to trade for or sign as free agents; the obvious way to get them is at the top of the draft. The gambles Bergevin took last summer backfired, but at least they didn’t cost us anything (except Brandon Prust, who was on the last year of his contract) or burden us with bad contracts. Bergevin will have to try something else; perhaps the negotiations for Jonathan Drouin are the start of this. But it’s going to take time, there’s no instant fix.

    “We gotta lotta dep.”

    • trade_centre says:

      Nice post. You allude to the fact that during the slump Therrien has remained very supportive of the players. I think this is why he deserves to keep his job. That and there is no one else out there.

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      Good defence, but the same problems persist — the whacky blender, and the odd TOI, plus who plays in what situations. And then there’s the PP.

      So kudos for what he has done, but there still seem to be coaching deficiencies.

      Will anyone else do better though?

      Also, perhaps he needs better support staff, strong enough to talk him out of some of his bad ideas at least.

  29. Lapointe says:

    UCE….nice touch calling Scott a clown….he gets paid to do a job…he is a human being with feelings and I am quite sure he is the victim here but go right ahead with your know it all callous remarks…I am certain you know best on this site…you always imply that in your mini books.

    • trade_centre says:

      How about the guys he concussed? Are they human beings with feelings?

      • Lapointe says:

        Trade_center….?
        Got names…many use the concussion thing but I am not aware of any individuals that John Scott personally is responsible for that way. Generally he fights other non important clowns so maybe under some views it’s a good thing if they eliminate each other.

        However just to make your post align or relate to mine…. concussions aside…. he got voted on by fans even if it was a slap at this ridiculous ASG that the NHL has made it. All I said was he is the victim…so I accept your apology for misreading my post. He probably wishes it would all just go away.

      • SmartDog says:

        Some are. Some aren’t…anymore.

        ————————————-
        Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

      • Habfan17 says:

        Yes they are, but until the NHL and coaches stop allowing fighting and condoning it, he was doing what he was brought in to do. It still does not make him a clown. Parros is a very smart man and he filled a role that is allowed by the league. He hurt some people and he got hurt himself. I hate fighting in hockey and am not supporting, it but one has nothing to do with the other in my opinion. Scott would not concuss anyone if the NHL banned fighting and teams didn’t bring in fighters.

        Habfan17

    • twilighthours says:

      I like it. You really have come along way since your comments about nilan several years ago.

  30. Habfan17 says:

    @ un Canadien Errant

    You state the goaltending has been subpar and you are not blaming the goalies. Well, I will agree a couple of games the goaltending was an issue.

    However, I agree with Habby_haburton. If this team is supposed to be a contender, it would account for a couple of losses, not a month and a half of poor play. I don’t care who is in the net, when a team scores 1.4 games per game, they will be hard pressed to win.

    Even in the games where a goalie has let in a soft one or two, the skaters have not done anything to make it matter. A lot of those “soft” goals, are a result of poor defensive play and mistakes the skaters made. In some of those games. the soft goals came after the goalies kept them in the game for a period, while the skaters, were getting their legs under them and they failed to use that to score themselves. The Habs coming out slow game after game, is not on the goalies!

    Against The Penguins, Condon ad a .935 Save %, the Habs sored 1 goal. The first game against Chicago, Condon had a .939 save %, the Habs scored 1goal.

    Time to stop saying the goaltending is AHL level, sub par, or any other term you want to use. It isn’t Price level and if that is what the Habs need to win, then they are in trouble.

    Pros do not tank when one player goes down or they are tired. Chicago had played two nights earlier, while the Habs had rested or 3 days. The Blues had 7 regulars out, if any team has an excuse to lose, it s them!

    If the Habs are that fragile that they lose all confidence and come apart at the seems because Price is out, there are bigger issues than goal scoring and a big part of that lies with the coaching! Not the goalies!!!
    Habfan17

    • Cal says:

      Condon is 12-11-4 with a .908 save %. He is 21st in the league in minutes played and 22nd in wins. His save % is 36th overall. In other words, he’s posting the numbers of a back up goalie who is not good enough to be a starter. He has been mediocre. Letting in “a soft one or two” ruins any chance of winning. The Habs poor offense, when combined with this below average goaltending, leads to loss after loss.
      He and Scrivens aren’t good enough to be starters. This has been the case since Price went down the second time.
      Bergevin is simply not getting the job done when it comes to player acquisitions. He seems only to get plugs or league-wide jokes, like Scott.

      • Habfan17 says:

        The wins for Condon is misleading and as I posted above the poor defensive play has not helped the goals against and save percentage. No, they may not be starters, but decent teams would still be playing closer to 500 hockey. I agree, MB has not done a lot to add to end players, but he does not have much to move to get one or two.

        You skipped past the hole story and focused on the goalies. From posts, you seem knowledgeable and should understand that a lot more goes into this mess.

        I am full aware that a soft goal can bring a team down, I mentioned that above and from your reply, you either skimmed past this or missed it. I played and coached at many levels, and the timing of the “soft” goals is important. When the Habs don’t show up until the 2nd period, and the goalies keep them in the game, then a soft goal in the 2nd and 3rd isn’t what hurts the team, it is the fact, the Habs didn’t come out strong or use the fact the goalies did hold them in, to push harder and get a goal or two!

        Again, as I said above, the poor defensive play has led to these “soft” goals on most occasions If the team played better, then we would not be having this conversation.

        As much as a soft goal can deflate a team, hopefully momentarily, so too can the pressure be very high when the goalie knows he has to pitch a shut out every night to win.

        Habfan17

        • Cal says:

          The goalie is the most important player. No other player affects the game more. When he has a bad night, and with Condon that’s over 50% of the time, he doesn’t give the team a chance to win.
          On the other side of it, not scoring 3 goals makes it tough for any team to win. In January, around the halfway mark of the season, teams tighten up and you see more and more low scoring games. Last night, 3 of the 5 games played had 5 goals or less. Two had only 3. Allowing 2 or more at this point costs games. Habs overall D can be better, but the goaltending has to be there, too.
          The St. Louis game, a game the Habs dominated, should not have been a loss. Condon’s poor play (allowing 2 questionable goals- the 1st and the 3rd one) turned it into one.

  31. on2ndthought says:

    Well, I’m no Michel Therrien, but if it was my team having such a hard time scoring goals, I’d cancel one of those off-days after a loss. Bring the boys onto the ice and have them do nothing but pound a thousand pucks at the boards and net. Slappers, wristers, deflections, all of it. No skating, no positional drills. Just shoot the damn puck!

    “a cannonading drive”

  32. Habitant in Surrey says:

    Fake Renaud Lavoie, TVASports Tweet:
    Drouin traded to #canadiens . Beaulieu, Carr, 1st / Jonathan Drouin échangé au #canadiens . #tvasports plus de détails a venir sur @TVASports

    I received this Tweet about 2AM PST this morning.

    It got My attention because it looked plausible. But then I noticed his Followers were in the few hundreds, and determined it fake.

    On TSN, Bob McKenzie said Rick Dudley was in Syracuse bird-dogging Drouin’s play in an AHL game last night.

    I guess that is why Bergevin not available lately for a press conference to discuss the Tinordi trade and acquisition of Scott.

    Even though the Fake Lavoie is giving away Beaulieu, Carr. and a First Round for Drouin, would You ?

  33. Habby_Haberton says:

    It is safe to say that the team hasn’t ‘turned’ on the coach.
    They are still trying.
    I disagree that this is something you can blame on the goaltending. Yes they aren’t Price but most games they play good enough for a decent team to win with, never mind the ‘contending team’ the Habs were supposed to be this year.

    Not having Price is a horrible excuse for this coach or this team. It just shows how much he was the only reason they’ve done anything the last few years. There is no need to wait and see how they do when he comes back because if you can’t play at least .500 hockey without him, you don’t deserve to make the playoffs and all the holes we are seeing now need to be remedied NOW, not when they are hidden again with Price in the line-up.

    So while it is true that the team hasn’t given up on the coach, the fact is that the coach, isn’t doing enough of a good job coaching. His players are trying, its the tactics that are the problem! He can’t get them motivated for 60 and can’t draw up a scoring play besides ‘throw everything at the net’.

    His player deployment is another problem I won’t even go into.

    The GM needs to do his part and make some upgrades for sure, but just like the team’s warts are showing up without Price, many of the warts are directly on the coach and staff and this 18-wheeler has 17 of those wheels hanging from a cliff…Time to make a change besides playing the waiting game for Price.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Just to expand on one of my posts below (which I kept all too brief) which you may be referring too, I don’t “blame” the goalies and rest this streak solely on not having Carey Price. ‘Blame’ is too strong a word.

      I don’t think we should blame Mike Condon and Dustin Tokarski, and now Ben Scrivens, since they are trying hard, doing the best they can. I think that’s what Michel Therrien was getting at when he said his goalies lacked experience, he wasn’t so much pointing the finger as much as he was trying to explain, to protect them.

      If anyone should be blamed, it would be Marc Bergevin, and I wouldn’t go that far also. I think the GM took a calculated risk, figuring that a young goalie could spell Carey very well for 12-15 games this season, that it would be a waste of cap space to get a more proven, experienced, and expensive backup goalie. He decided to allocated his resources elsewhere, which is defensible. It just didn’t work out for him.

      But it’s inarguable that our backup goalies haven’t, on the whole, done the job. I’d be okay with adequate goaltending, and we haven’t gotten that by and large, it’s been well below average.

  34. jimmy shaker says:

    Now if your ever going to do anything MB go and get Big Buff from the Peg. Emelin, McCarron and 1st and Hartnell from C-Bus for a 2nd rounder.

    Shaker out!

    • shiram says:

      That’s a high price for a rental, and considering how the team is trending now, I’d say keeping picks would be better.
      Would also be the most expensive squad of RD in the League.

      _________________________________________
      “The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears that this is true.”

  35. Un Canadien errant says:

    “I do not understand the adulation for Therrien by some here…”

    This is where hyperbole meets untruth. I’m not picking on this poster in particular, but it’s common to overstate the adversary’s position to make it more untenable.

    Overwhelmingly, there are no great fans of Michel Therrien here. The announcement of his hire was met with dismay and unease by most, there was no great cheering from the grandstands.

    What did happen though is a significant portion of the membership decided to give him a chance, the benefit of the doubt. And by and large he’s done very well, taking a team that was a bottom-feeder under Randy Cunneyworth and taking it to the top of the standings. He changed the atmosphere in the dressing room, installed a team work ethic and a climate of accountability.

    We worried that he’d lose his marbles during games, or in post-game scrums, whereas in fact he’s been calm and in control, kept his emotions in check, and has been mostly supportive during difficult times, trotting out his adversity bromide. He’s kept a loose leash on the boys, giving them rest days after losses for example, when some of the more excitable faction wanted bag skates and fire and brimstone.

    And now we hit a critical juncture in his tenure, and those members who think he’s as good as gone now want their pound of flesh, want me and my faction members to offer up an apology, that they were right all along.

    Except they weren’t right. To constantly, personally attack the coach, despite his very tangibly positive performance, often due to his cultural background, was way offside. Some members would offer insightful critiques, but unfortunately in my eyes it would get lost in the churn of the “clueless” references, and the ‘inability to adapt’. They all started to blend in.

    One member a few months back hammered the head coach on the fact that ‘his’ powerplay last season was putrid, yet he refused or was unable to adapt, to adjust. I replied with, off the top of my head, seven or eight adjustments that were made in season to try to break the powerplay out of its funk. Unfortunately, he never replied with a “Well, that’s true, those adjustments were made, and it’s too bad nothing seemed to work. I only wish that…” You know, never continued the conversation, he just went in search of other posts where facts didn’t collide with his opinions.

    And speaking of the powerplay, this year, when it did well early, the negative nellies were backslapping each other, how golly, that Mike Ramsay was really having a positive effect on things. I weighed in a couple of times, asking if we were all in agreement that Mike Ramsay was going to receive all the credit, take all the responsibility, in his part-time consultant role, and none of it was going to go to full-time Assistant Coach Jean-Jacques Daigneault, newly installed as in charge of the PP, replacing Dan Lacroix. I received nothing but crickets in response.

    Now that the PP is again stuck in the mud, now, finally, the negative nellies are in agreement, the culprit is Michel Therrien. Always was. No one else has his fingerprints on this. Michel Therrien is stifling P.K., and making Andrei old, and Nate’s shot downy soft. No one’s bringing up Mike Ramsay now, no way no how.

    So yeah, about your pound of flesh, and about how you were right, that Michel Therrien was going to get fired, that he should get fired, that’s the easiest prediction in the world to make, it’s trite to do so, with that whole ‘coaches are hired to be fired’ mantra.

    To call for Michel Therrien’s dismissal, and then crow and bask in the knowledge that you were right all along during this tough losing streak, is like all those who’ve been saying for years that Keith Richards is going to die, he has to. Eventually, you’ll be ‘right’, but in another, more accurate way, you were dead wrong. He outlasted your projections since the 70’s. Keith Richards is going to die, but not before David Bowie and Glenn Frey.

    So I’ll see your Michel Therrien, and raise you a Glen Gulutzan and Dallas Eakins and Randy Carlyle and John Tortorella and Alain Vigneault and Kirk Muller and Mike Johnston and ….

    ———————————————————————–
    So my resolution for this season is, taking Hal Gill’s injunction to heart, to “let P.K. be P.K.” I’m not going to try to hold him to the standard of Raymond Bourque or Chris Chelios, I’m going to allow him to be himself, with all his glory and his little foibles. (…) I’m celebrating P.K., not trying to improve him. Anymore.

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • shiram says:

      I was gonna make a hockey reply, but mentioning Keith Richard in that way, considering the many great people we are losing since the start of the year is just grim to me.

      _________________________________________
      “The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears that this is true.”

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        Yeah, I saw a tweet in the same vein on Bruce Arthur’s Twitter feed, and it struck me as kind of the same thing, the morbid watch to see something inevitably happen. I kind of see it as Keith being a survivor, making fools of us all.

        • shiram says:

          I’m just at an age where many of my youth heroes are getting old, sick and die.

          And in the context, Therrien getting fired, but still getting his millions for the next 3-4 years should not be compared to people dying.

          I get the comparison you are trying to make, and I agree we should celebrate the chance to enjoy those artists for as long as we can.
          I’ll add Ozzy Osbourne and Al Jourgensen to the list of tough
          guy making all the predictions look foolish.

          But it also was not long ago that people were calling Lemmy as ironclad.
          _________________________________________
          “The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears that this is true.”

        • boing007 says:

          I’m rooting for Keith Richards to keep on rockin & rollin into his 90s.

          Richard R

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      *** Re-posted***

      Un Canadien errant MARCH 25, 2015 AT 5:31 PM

      The thing is, I don’t even like Michel Therrien. I like Marc Bergevin, and Brendan Gallagher, and Carey Price, and Russell Wilson, and D.J. Fluker. I don’t know them, but I like them. And I don’t ‘like’ Michel Therrien.

      Michel Therrien is gruff, ill-spoken, doesn’t present well. His laugh annoys me. The way he sticks his tongue out when he chortles at his own witticisms. The way he sometimes blunders when he speaks, overstating things (“My captain was crying in my arms”). His slicked-back hair. His little gut, and the way he wears his warmups a little tight.

      I sometimes wonder idly how we can get Guy Boucher back in the fold, as our emergency option, when the wheels come off, inevitably. I want LHJMQ coaches in the system, in Hamilton/St. John’s, in Wheeling. In the revived Canadiens Junior (it will happen, trust me, when the new arena is built in Laval). De la relève, en cas.

      When Geoff Molson cleaned house, then hired Marc Bergevin, I campaigned for Patrick Roy, and posted negatively, fearfully about the possibility of Michel Therrien being hired. I don’t remember a single post on HIO advocating that he should be the next head coach.

      And yet, grudgingly, he’s won me over, proven himself again and again, making tough decisions, getting the team to respond. It’s not like I’m running around snapping my suspenders about his great results, I actually expected much, much less, and said so, openly.

      And I find myself now being a Michel Therrien defender. Not because I like him. I don’t. I wouldn’t want to be paired with him at the golf tournament, I’d rather be with the Dream Weaver, or Michel Lacroix.

      I defend him against intolerant, unfair attacks on him personally, his intellect, his lack of fair play. It’s ridiculous the accusations he faces up to on HIO. I shudder to think what it’s like on TSN message boards.

      • Habitant in Surrey says:

        You took the words right out of My mouth.

        …though, I wish You would ask first 🙂

      • twilighthours says:

        Good combi-rant.

        Unfortunately, it’s all just noise.

        The team is as bad as it’s been in 76 years. Everyone has underperformed. The team, and coach, have displayed a very tangibly poor performance. Changes need to be made.

        Due to my fairly consistent position over the years that therrien is not the greatest coach, my vote is for a coaching change to be the first move. Further, it is the easiest to do and is reasonably likely to yield results. If not now then for next year.

    • Know et al says:

      Awesome post. Couldn’t agree more.

  36. tonyhabsfan says:

    UCe> Thank you very much for your time and effort to answer my question, (I was expecting “no, stupid”) I appreciate it..

    Habs fan- the very definition of insanity for 20+years…..

  37. Un Canadien errant says:

    Bruce Arthur explained today that the Canadiens really aren’t playing that badly.

    Funny thing for Montreal: They won with bad possession numbers last year. Last 25 games this year: ANA, 55.4CF%. LAK, 55.4%. MTL: 54.65%.

    https://twitter.com/bruce_arthur/status/689111793520762880

    Over that 25-game span, Montreal’s also 28th in 5 on 5 save percentage, 29th in 5 on 5 shooting percentage, 30th in the ol’ PDO.

    https://twitter.com/bruce_arthur/status/689112158714642432

    A lot of their woes can be attributed to the fact that since Carey was re-injured, Mike Condon and Dustin Tokarski went into a prolonged swoon (to be kind), out of which the goalies are just pulling out of. Mike had four or five games recently where he pitched a combined .950 or thereabouts, before another blip the last three games.

    At the same time, their shooting percentage during the same interval has been at the bottom of the league too. This is one of the stats that is flaky, tends to be luck-driven, in that it’s not reliable from game to game or year to year. Stats-heads warned us about this after Patrick Roy’s triumphant first season as head coach, or the Leafs in 2013-14, how their high shooting percentage were unsustainable, and that they were poised for a(n 18-wheeler going over a cliff) fall.

    So again, if we had had even average goaltending during this losing streak, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Remember how after the hot start people were saying all we needed to do was play .500 hockey for the rest of the season? That’s where we’d be, if we had had a decent, reliable backup goalie.

    ———————————————————————–
    So my resolution for this season is, taking Hal Gill’s injunction to heart, to “let P.K. be P.K.” I’m not going to try to hold him to the standard of Raymond Bourque or Chris Chelios, I’m going to allow him to be himself, with all his glory and his little foibles. (…) I’m celebrating P.K., not trying to improve him. Anymore.

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • LeaveTheCoachAlone says:

      Condon sits 19th out of 46 regulars with a 2.39, with the average being a 2.44 in GAA, and 36th out of 46 with a .908 with a league average of .917 in SP.

      I’m not sure giving him 1 percent more SP keeps this team as a .500 performer.

      The less than 2 goals per game the offence is puttin up is still the urgent concern.

      The shooting percentage angle is gimmicky, but telling of our team shooters being unlucky, I attribute it to relentless pressure of being a HAB.

    • shiram says:

      They still were not scoring at all during that stretch, tough to hang this on the rookie goalie.
      Price will be back, and should be his great self again.
      I’m more worried about generating scoring chances and goals.

      The veterans and leaders did not all show up, and it seems to be a theme for the team.
      I’m not big on such intangibles as clutchiness, but it does seem to me that when the going gets tough, or for the big games, big moments, no one is really stepping up.
      No Justin Williams or Jonathan Toews.

      _________________________________________
      “The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears that this is true.”

    • twilighthours says:

      Those numbers are a bit misleading.

      Montreal has ~58% corsi when trailing since Dec 2 (at 5v5), which is second best in the league. And they’ve trailed a lot, so lots for the weighted average.

      Down to ~53% for close score situations (within 1 goal in first or second, tied in the third), good for 8th in the league.

      And 50% when games are tied at any time in the game.

    • boing007 says:

      Possession is nine-tenths of the law. If you can’t hit the broad side of a barn then it really doesn’t matter how much possession time you have.

      Richard R

  38. tonyhabsfan says:

    I have a question I know somebody can help me with, when training camp ended, could we have sent Tinordi down to St. Johns, so maybe he could work on what was needed, instead of wasting yet another first round pick? The few times I watched him last year I thought he was ok, still learning, but not that cringe-worthy, I don’t get it, We kept worse (Gilbert, Markov, Emelin)

    Habs fan- the very definition of insanity for 20+years…..

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      No, unfortunately. While it would have been great if we could have sent him down to the minors for more seasoning, he had too much seniority to go there without first going through waivers. In all likelihood, we would have lost him if we’d tried, some team would have claimed him.

      http://www.litterboxcats.com/2013/10/7/4792782/nhl-waiver-waivers-cba-florida-panthers

      We spent a lot of time last summer wondering about the Jarred Tinordi contract, why he took so long to sign it, why it was a two-way deal. As commenters on another site explained/opined, he accepted the qualifying offer from the team, with a high NHL salary but a two-way component, to dare the team to send him down, so he could be claimed by another team that would play him more.

      The thinking is that the Canadiens tried to get him to sign a one-way contract like Greg Pateryn, with a lower NHL salary, but more years, to make him less likely to be claimed on waivers by another team. The contract would look good to us, but bad to any other teams wondering if they should add him to their roster.

      But according to that conjecture, Jarred would have refused, preferring the higher wage, and secure that if the Canadiens tried to send him down he’d get a better chance with another organization.

  39. pmaraw says:

    Ya, it’s because Mt joined the team that price got better, is that a joke? I can’t believe people are still behind this clown. Price carried MT. Not the other way around, it’s beyond obvious now. Can’t wait to see this baffoon leave the building. Just hope he doesn’t muck up any more of the teams future in the process.

  40. Un Canadien errant says:

    Enormous thanks to Stu Cowan and Jack Todd for their analysis, their critique of the Jarred Tinordi trade. They covered pretty well all the bases. They saved me having to write a monster convoluted post to try to keep things straight in my head.

    I need to say this: if Don Maloney did really insist, and it’s hinted that this occurred late in the negotiations, that Marc Bergevin also relieve him of the contract of John Scott and the attached headache, then I don’t understand why Marc Bergevin didn’t say “Fine, then I want (…) added to my side of the ledger.” For us to accept this clown player and his one-way contract, in a time when the profit margin of the Canadiens is being eaten away by the exchange rate, there should have been a sweetener thrown in.

    This was Don Maloney’s mess. Like Jerry Seinfeld’s nana, the Coyotes are on a very fixed income. Their GM made a big mistake signing John Scott to a one-way deal, he probably thought he needed an enforcer to protect his young rookies. He quickly realized his mistake, but unlike other ‘rich’ teams, couldn’t bury the mistake in the AHL. The Coyotes are a ‘budget team, not a ‘cap team’, they only have so much allocated to payroll, and it doesn’t matter to them if the real salary dollars are spent on the NHL or AHL team, they’re still counted very closely.

    So he needed someone to take that deal off his hands, to get right with ownership, and we did him that favour. Except we didn’t get an upgrade to Laurent Dauphin as the prospect coming back our way, or a second or third-round pick, or an exchange of draft position, etc.

    Which leads me to conclude that Marc Bergevin caved, he made a bad move under pressure from the fans and the media. And I thought he was relatively immune to that.

    I don’t know why I believed that. We’ve seen him be a little aggressive, a little bitter in his pressers lately, singling out a journalist who was asking whether the Canadiens’ system was defensive. He’s also talked about how trades in real life aren’t the same thing as on Playstation. It’s obvious that he gets all least some of the blowback from the media, from the open-lines, from sites like this one.

    But in the vast majority of his moves, there was a logical basis to them, they were easily defensible, even if some of them eventually didn’t work out. I’ll leave the Daniel Brière signing aside as a special, inexcusable or inexplicable or indefensible case, but everything else could be seen as a small move forward, pushing a pawn.

    This one though, it reeks of a panic move, where you offer up your stereo to people you know, because your’re trying to make rent, and you keep claiming that it’s worth $2000 and it’s like new, and at first you want $1500 and quickly you start talking about a grand, and then before you know it you’re begging for a neighbour to take it off your hands for $500, and you end up accepting $400 and agreeing to move it in and install it.

    Except Marc Bergevin didn’t need to make rent. He didn’t need to unload Jarred. Sure, yeah, did the kid a favour, blah blah blah, but ultimately we’d kept him on the roster without any problems for this long, there was no urgent need to unload him. It’s not like he was a distraction, he’s always been known as a kid with great character, with great leadership skills.

    And now I’m despondent, terrified of the next step. L’Antichambre are beating the tom-toms that there must be “une grosse transaction” to put the team back on track. I don’t believe anymore that the brain trust is insulating itself from such talk, that they’re above such matters, that their eyes are kept on the long term, the sainted ‘plan’. I’m more inclined now to believe that Marc Bergevin is acting as if he has a gun to his head, that he believes the hype, that he must do a trade now. When all of his players are devalued by a losing streak, when he’s going to have to sell low.

    ———————————————————————–
    So my resolution for this season is, taking Hal Gill’s injunction to heart, to “let P.K. be P.K.” I’m not going to try to hold him to the standard of Raymond Bourque or Chris Chelios, I’m going to allow him to be himself, with all his glory and his little foibles. (…) I’m celebrating P.K., not trying to improve him. Anymore.

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • Goldenchild says:

      In the words of now deceased Uncle Leo: “Jerry…..your Nana is on a very fixed income (arms stretched out as he speaks with severe disappointment)…..”

      Now picture Mr. Molson saying the same thing to MB about our Habs.

      Priceless.

    • LeaveTheCoachAlone says:

      I hope your speculation is incorect, and thats theres another reason as to why it appears Bergevin caved on this deal.

      I also hope, that Bergevin has the stones to not further react with as you say, hyperbolic pressure from the outside, regardless of his motives on the Tinordi deal.

    • Marc10 says:

      For me the trade shows that Marc is still learning the craft and that Dmen can go bust well within the CBA confines. Detroit’s Ken Holland has lost the odd kid over the years on the waiver wire, but no first rounders. This feels like that but worse, with a bit of brand tarnishing thrown in.

      Maybe if we don’t have Yemmy on the NTC, we get away with keeping the big man as a number 7, but realistically… I think it’s still the same result. He was beaten by journeyman Barbie for Pete’s sake. There’s simply not enough time to keep the guy around to mould him.

      My biggest gripe is that we were expecting a bigger team… But looking at Carr, Ghetto, Hudon, Byron… I’m not seeing it and we just traded a mountain man. At least Big Mac is still in the pipe (and Pateryn should eventually stick). Big Mac may never score a ton in the pros, but he seems willing to stand where goals are scored and trade the odd blow. I look forward to that.

      Incidentally…

      98.5’s Dube says forget about Drouin. He doesn’t believe that’s realistic in any way. Stevie Y will ask for too much.

      Ron says his sources tell him Ladd has slowed down a touch… He likes Eric Stall, but that’s going to be an expensive rental.

      Interesting times ahead… I just hope we make the playoffs, or if we don’t that we offload the costly non-core pieces.

    • boing007 says:

      I wasn’t clamoring for MB to trade Tinordi. Far from it.

      Richard R

  41. Enigma says:

    When Montreal and Pittsburgh played not that long ago, their new coach was interviewed during one of the intermissions. One of his answers was that his philosophy was to adjust his system to the players he had on the roster. Sounds quite the opposite of MT’s approach. Surprisingly, I don’t think his comments were ever mentioned here. Give me a coach who thinks outside his own comfort zone any day of the week!

    ‘Work is the curse of the drinking classes.’ Oscar Wilde

  42. habs_1978 says:

    Regardless of why he was voted in, this whole situation stinks. I’m embarrassed to be a Habs fan right now. Shame on them for being part of this.

    • Goldenchild says:

      There is more going on here than meets the naked eye. Over time we will learn the truth. It cannot be as simple as it seems. If so, yikes, we are living in the world of George Castanza. Where everything is opposite to reality.

  43. dickanddanny says:

    In hindsight the real head coach of the Canadiens for the first couple of years during this second stint with MT was probably Gerard Gallant. French name but not French unfortunately. He must have been really well liked and good with the players and has obviously carried that coaching ability over to Florida. We haven’t been as good since he left. Too bad.

    “back to you Dick”

  44. tonyhabsfan says:

    Lost amid everything going on in Habsland lately, Montreal FINALLY has the baddest badass in hockey, rested and available to stomp the bejeezus out of the Boston Bruins, I vote we dress Scott and turn him loose, take out everybody he can before he’s tranqualized, between the suspension and possible jail time, he wouldn’t get to go to the ASG. Everybody wins!!

    Habs fan- the very definition of insanity for 20+years…..

  45. forgottenfan says:

    Bergevin you are a weasel

    You are in the the same class as Dracula – Betman

    No class and you will end up being a bottom feeder for your actions

  46. LeaveTheCoachAlone says:

    Seems Emelin has inspired Stastny.

    4 point night.

    Hmmm, if he could miscalculate his hit in practice on a teammate or two, we could be onto something here.

  47. Arnou Ruelle says:

    http://www.rds.ca/hockey/canadiens/45-points-en-36-matchs-objectif-realiste-1.2827341

    45 points in 36 games is one hell of a climb on the standings for our Habs. If our team will survive the regular season, it must take all the scoring needed from the team to maintain in the standings. The problem is, if the odds will not favour them, lets say…20 loses, then its high time to say bye bye for the playoffs.

    To look at it, the Habs must win a total of around 22 to 25 games out of 36 in order to get in the playoffs. Still lots of hockey to be played.

  48. chilli says:

    I know MB was trying to trade Tinordi all season long.
    And very actively in the last 2 months, and then blasting emails over the last two weeks.
    There was zero interest in Tinordi from any team in the NHL. And then the Coyote’s popped-up.

    MB made the trade with the one team that expressed interest in him.

    The John Scott thing is terrible and very poorly mishandled from all involved. He was an NHL player on his way to the All Star game who is now in St. John’s.

    Tinordi had zero value.

    Done.

  49. montreal ace says:

    For players in the NHL today, which of these 2 are at the top of the list, money or a cup. I don’t even think it’s close, most will choose the cash.

    • chilli says:

      Of course it’s money. This is a job for them and a tough one at that. Why do you think right when the season ends, they all pack up and go right home – wherever their preferred home is.

      It’s a job.

      And a very tough one.

  50. pmaraw says:

    To the guys who were trumpeting mt’s winning record all summer, I told you it was price’s record and not mt’s. What a fiasco this season has become.

  51. DDO_Habs_Fan says:

    IMO you don’t make a trade for a future prospect in the middle of the season. This is especially the case when the prospect doesn’t meet a need. The Drouin trade should be made in the off-season where you can plan who will play center. With Chucky moving to wing now, the need is obvious: a top 2 center. Idealy that would be combined with DD being dumped. I am tired of hearing excuses from MB. He got a big extension so now he needs to do his freakin’ job. He created the DD mess so he should take care of it. I never thought I would see him be taken advantage by Don Baloney. MB needs to basically wake TFU and stop wasting time trading a 9th D-man for another 9th D-man.

    • bwoar says:

      Gotta make trades when the players are available. TBL won’t wait to cut a deal. And while he doesn’t meet a need at first blush, I kinda think he does. We have 1 aging #2C, two #3’C’s and a kid who still may just be better as a winger than at centre. By any measure, we should be working to improve that #1C scenario.

      One guy we can forget now is RNH, who has a long-term hand injury. Ouch!

  52. boonie says:

    Ok. Took me a few days, but I finally figured out the Scott trade.

    And, I love it!

    This is our generation’s Hicke and first for Lacombe and a first. The second first – of course – being Sam Pollock’s genius move to land our 1970s icon.

    Bergevin, realizing that no current owner/GM comes close to the incompetence of Charlie Finley, ropes the NHL into the act.

    He offers the league a life-line on the Scott embarrassment. Their undying gratitude – “future considerations.”

    Now, what can a league offer?

    A blind eye on an obvious offside… meh. perhaps allowing a Stanley Cup winning goal to be kicked in… Sure, if we make it that far.

    Ok… How about the first pick in the Austin lottery…

    Yes. I like it.

    GMMB is today’s GMSP.

    And, I love it!

  53. Coach K says:

    Many have asked, if not Therrein then who?

    My submission is Sheldon Keefe.

    He has a proven track record as a winner and also as a coach known to quickly turn around under-performing teams. I know that he’s also a terrific development coach because we billeted his players for 4 seasons. During that time I’d pick their brain and learned how he thought and how he teaches. I watched him successfully integrate rookies into the lineup every game and give them big time responsibility. By the end of the season they could step right in if injuries to key players created spots for them. He wasn’t afraid to use them because he knew that he’d developed them to the point where they could be counted on. The following years, those same rookies became the team leaders.

    His record in the CJHL Jr A league (oddly, a league started in 1961 by the Habs) probably will go down as the best the CJHL has ever seen. 5 consecutive league championships, 2 Eastern Canadian titles and a Canadian National Championship, all in 5 years! His contemporaries in the league at the time were Todd Gill and Gary Galley so it isn’t like he was coaching against nobodys.

    Kyle Dubas in the Sault saw this, did his due diligence on him (he was vetted by Hockey Canada) and hired him to turn his team around. The team was trending to miss the playoffs for the 3rd year in a row when Keefe arrived in mid December. By the end of February he turned them around, and got them into the playoffs. The following year they went from league doormats to finish 3rd overall on the OHL. Last year (his final one) they finished 1st overall and lost out to McDavid’s Otters in the semi’s I think. I’m certain that if you ask Darnell Nurse what he thought of his coach he’d have high praise for him.

    Last summer Dubas got hired by the Leafs as assistant GM and made Dubas GM of the Marlies. He brought Keefe along with him to coach the Marlies. They seem to be doing ok. The thing is, Keefe won’t want to be waiting for Babcock’s contract to expire. Somebody will soon be asking the Leafs to talk to him. Why not the habs?

    He’s young, (mid 30’s) and while not French speaking, is very bright and would learn functional French. No reason Basement Bergy couldn’t keep a couple of French speaking assistants to deal with the media until he figures it out.

    Anyway…you asked, I delivered.

    Make it so Bergy before somebody else does.

    • bwoar says:

      Mid 30s? Guy can afford to wait on Babcock – even he won’t last in Leafville forever.

    • LeaveTheCoachAlone says:

      This guy sounds quite accomplished, and able. However, what makes anyone else think an unproven in the NHL, can do better with the club then Therrien.

      I don’t get it, questioning of the lines, or time management, and player loyalty.

      Almost like people dislike him so much, they’d rather roll the dice with an unknown they stomach his limited english dialogue a moment further.

      Perhaps some of the people that constantly bring up the french language barriers to hiring the right coach, are really just french culture hating bigots.

      The guy enjoys the best start in league history, gets a little admiration, and then the team loses its best player in decades, and hes a complete bumbling idiot.

      Its truly scary to think if this message board is even a small sample of how judgemental and arrogant our culture is today, how much further our charade going forward will last.

      In this league of 30 teams, there’s maybe 2 coaches I would take over him. I think he’s the right guy over 27 others that are coaching in this league, and still i’m unsure if one of those 2 coaches coached here, they’d get better results.

      • Coach K says:

        I’m of French Canadian ancestry but don’t count me among those who say a French speaking coach is a necessity. No bigot here, I just want someone who will develop young talent and teach them how to win. Someone who can adapt a system to the talent he has available not one who is married to a system that sets the small but quick and skilled players up to fail time and again. A system that requires winning 50/50 pucks battles, a system that demands a physical presence they cannot bring.

        Why can an “unproven” young winner with a proven track record of developing young talent not work? Where is it written that a replacement must only come from within the NHL?

        That’s like a coach saying I will only ice my veteran players – no rookies or the Montreal Canadiens saying they will only use players from the Province of Quebec.

        Limiting the gene pool will turn them into dinosaurs sooner than later.

        • LeaveTheCoachAlone says:

          Hey Coach, wasnt saying an unproven cant just come in and deliver. I understand your original post was about insight on who could be a replacement if needed.

          I just don’t think we need to consider that. Therrien is probably doing a lot better with what he has to work with in terms of casting, and carte blanche direction, then people lambast him to be.

          He is not in the top 3 problems, that need addressing before considering a new coaching option.

    • Ktowner says:

      Has he shaken the darkness of his former agent David Frost?

      • Coach K says:

        Definitely.

        Frost was known to hang around the rink when the former coach was there but the second Keefe took over he vanished. None of the players who lived with us or the teamates who would drop in nightly ever heard of the guy hanging around. I know because I asked them. Plus, as I stated earlier, Hockey Canada thoroughly vetted him before putting him on their bench at least twice that I’m aware of. They wouldn’t touch him with a ten foot pole if that dirtbag Frost was anywhere near the picture.

        When he bough the team here years ago he got married, had a couple of kids and became a man as well as a respected member of the community.

        That whole Frost connection was actually brought up in an interview with Elliot Freidman and he said more or less that, “I didn’t have a lot of control over my life from about 15-20. I can only hope I’ll be judged on what has happened since.” He has frequently stated that he wasn’t proud of some things he’d done in the past. I believe him. Check out Bob McKenzie’s book. He has a segment on Keefe’s redemption in there as well.

        So, yes, he’s worked hard to distance himself from that unfortunate legacy.

  54. formerly known as the hc says:

    I have largely, for the most part, been supportive of MB’S moves. This trade, however, makes ZERO sense to me.

    • Marc10 says:

      It’s embarrassing on many fronts. They should have given up on him earlier when he had value.

      At this point, it’s a minor cap deal with a hint of league conspiracy tied to it.

      To make everyone forget about our plight, I’d call up the big man and McCarron for one game (tomorrow’s against the Bruins). I’d play them on a line with Gally and tell the little guy to go nuts. All would be forgiven. Now that’s something we could all get behind.

      🙂

    • habitual says:

      Word is, MB wanted another D he could call up if necessary and liked Bartley. Arizona wouldn’t agree unless Scott was included.

      • Coach K says:

        Another rumor is that McCarron keeps getting challenge to fight down there. Scott may have been brought in by MB to deal with those clowns and give McCarron the room to properly develop without those other distractions. If that’s true, it may not have been the dumbest move ever…

        • formerly known as the hc says:

          This makes sense… If it’s true.

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          That may be a happy result, but I don’t think it’s a reason good enough to accept being part of this shyster deal. There are countless enforcers out there that can be had for cheap who can do the job of neutralizing opposition enforcers. We could have had just as effective a baboon by signing Trevor Gillies, who’s in the ECHL right now.

          Also, there are other big tough guys on the roster who could protect Mike, like Stéfan Fournier, Connor Crisp, and Eric Neilson (who’s now been released from his PTO.) So the notion, as it’s now being floated on HIO, that Mike was alone to take on all comers is exaggerated.

          Sure, Mike is an inviting target for someone trying to make a name for himself, but the situation wasn’t so critical that John Scott became a reasonable solution.

  55. trade_centre says:

    Speaking of the AHL I notice Morgan Ellis leads the Ice Caps for points from D men and +/-. Same vintage as Tinordi. Is he any good?

    • slapshot777 says:

      From what I have seen from him in St. John’s he seems to be a good puck moving defenseman with good skating ability. I have always wondered why he never got a chance to pay a few games in the NHL.

      To you from failing hands we throw the torch, be yours to hold it high.

    • bwoar says:

      He’s one of those guys who’s not particularly great at any one thing. He may not have a “chair” on the D. The stint in Wheeling last year seemed to really help his confidence, and with Barberio out, he’s been leaned on a lot.

      I’d say he’s more of a josh Gorges than anything. Darren Dietz may yet better than either of those guys.

    • Mike D says:

      He spent some time in the ECHL so he’s had his struggles in the past. Hopefully he’s past them now.

      – Honestly yours
      Twitter: @de_benny

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Morgan Ellis is the poster boy for why we should have held on to Jarred, if the returns were to be so minimal.

      He won a Memorial Cup in Shawinigan with Michaël Bournival, then turned pro the next season, joined the Bulldogs the same season as Jarred, Nate, Greg Pateryn and Magnus Nygren. He kind of got lost in the shuffle, didn’t get a lot of hype, got injured some, and didn’t seem to progress. As is pointed out by bwoar and Mike D, he did end up in the ECHL a couple times, there not being enough icetime for all the rooks.

      This season, with more experience and more icetime, he’s getting to be the defenceman we expected, a solid two-way guy. Time is running out for him in terms of being a prospect, but he illustrates well how hard it is for a young defenceman to make his mark, how we need to be patient.

      As we should have been with Jarred…

      http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=115918

    • twilighthours says:

      What bwoar said. He’s got no chance to make it.

  56. nova scotia vees says:

    Since being Fre ch is required, how about Dominque Ducharme. Has done a great job with Halifax Mooseheads. Therrien has got to go. He is hampering the development of our young players.
    And I see that we have another day off. Must be nice to play in that country club atmosphere. I don’t care that we played 2 nights in a row. Think about it in ice-time. Most of the forwards played in the teens in minutes. Then hopped a charter. But we have NOTHING to work on. Ha,ha.

  57. montreal ace says:

    Bud Holloway is 3 points off the lead,in the AHL scoring race. I don’t understand why, he has only had a few shifts with the Habs. I was excited when he signed, as I seen clips of his time in Europe.

  58. habs001 says:

    Earlier i asked what coach would make the Habs score more…i still believe the answer is none as it is more of a talent issue…MaxPac scored 37 and 39 goals the last two years and he will be in that range this year…do we really expect him to score more than this?….Plecks had the most points last year since 2009/2010 and will finish in the same range this year….Gallagher has improved every year and he was on a 70 point season pace before his injury….Galchenyuk is improving his production every year and maybe he is only a 65-70 point player once he reaches his top end….Weise had his best year ever last year and will surpass it this year…DD is what he is …mostly a point every two game player at the end of the season…Eller is a 30 point player…The other veterans are what they are ..Byron has scored more goals this year than ever before in a season…Mitchell and Flynn are on pace to score about the same amount as they have scored thru out their career with other teams…

    • bwoar says:

      We have the same view of the players. A different coach won’t get much more out of this group, save for Galchenyuk like I mentioned. Talent-wise we are what we see on the ice, there’s no mistaking the lack of goalscoring. It’s not a coaching thing (excepting maybe on the PP).

      I just see too many blatant bad calls on MT’s part. Just last year it seemed like he was able to make the line blender work. This year it hasn’t. As soon as he started flipping Pacioretty around with DD and AG27 the writing was on the wall that he was out of ideas.

      Would the world end if Therrien benched David Desharnais and once in a while? No. But it’s also not MT’s fault that he has to work with this pop-gun shooting crew night after night.

      Main thing the coach should be doing is drilling into his team that they must score FIRST at all costs. That message doesn’t seem to have sunk in.

  59. habitual says:

    Since Dec 01, the Habs goalies have produced an .891 save percentage. Yes, scoring is a big issue, but no team will play even .500 hockey with that goal tending stat.

    • --Habs-- says:

      Even if you have a 931 save percentage and 2.00 GAA you won’t win if your scoring 1.35 goals per game

      “Habs” Watch and learn….! Or Not!

      • habitual says:

        I say again, scoring is an issue for sure. But do you wonder if there is a lack of confidence in the goal tending, and that might affect the scoring?

        • Phil C says:

          Or is the goalie fighting the puck because he knows he has to be perfect? I say both are major problems. The scoring was a problem all last year, one of the worst scoring teams to make the playoffs. PP has been dismal for years. This is not a new problem, just one that has been exposed badly by not having elite goaltending.

      • Mark C says:

        But they aren’t scoring 1.35 goals per game, more like 1.89…

      • twilighthours says:

        If they had average tending over the slump, it would be 14-15 fewer goals against. That’s a lot more wins.

        The goalies, like everyone else, have absolutely been part of the problem

    • The_Rocket_Returns says:

      If the great & wise MB saw fit to have even average backup goaltending, they’d be 6 or 8 points better than where they are now.

      People keep bashing Therrien, but he’s done more with this flawed lineup than just about anyone else could.

      … Koivu to Zednik to Kovalev …


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