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Three blown leads, but a precious point.
• A point slips away
• Quotes from the room
• Quick Hits and About last night …
• Red Fisher on the no-quit Islanders
• Dave Stubbs on the brawls in Boston
• Hickey on fighting
• Stubbs on backup goalie Joel Martin
• Arpon Basu decodes Jacques Martin
• Pierre Durocher on David Desharnais
Hey there Mike… and thanks..
Had heard of that delicious “combo” at Schwartz’s from a buddy who lived in Mtl. and will definitely go with that…
All I want for the rest of my Christmasses is a thorough Leaf drubbing…
looking forward to the atmosphere at The Bell Centre as it was lacking in Leaf land for sure.. (can you blame them though?)I am used to the games in Vancouver that are good and loud…
where is a good pre-game place to go??
Combination for success: 46-14-13
gaineys trade of ribeiro for ninima another beaut
When they are fired, with any luck will be very soon, I promise to not talk about it anymore. Unless they win a Cup. Then I probably won’t be as vocal.
I’d have no problem with Carkner – even though he’s no Craig Ludwig.
That being said – why would Ottawa let him go? He makes the minimum, seems to be OK as a defender, and as you say will protect his mates.
An aside from the “Smurfs will never take down Gargamel” debate… I am on a pilgrimage of sorts. I am from victoria, BC and had the good fortune of winning a “Hockey Day in Canada” trip through an event my Friday hockey team puts on annually to rasie money for the MS society… I am currently on a train from Toronto to Montreal and will be taking in the Habs/Leafs tilt (dare I say tilt?) on Saturday… As a life long habs fan that has yet to make it to montreal, I am giddy to say the least (I also took in the Leafs/Devils last night.. meh) So I ask you mes amis… for suggestions in how to best enjoy my stay in Montreal.. plans thus far: Schwartz’s for smoked meat… tour of the Bell Centre and the Canadiens Hall of Fame (I understand ticket holders can do this on game day) Keep in mind my girlfriend is with me so the lap dances will get a rain check
Thanks in advance!
Where are you going, Tommy?
ahahahahah, not sure if your serious, but I was joking, thats why i wriote JK
sorry I try to forget the Centennial and must have mentally blocked it out because he was good that year…my bad…but I think you know what I meant…for a long time it looked like he was just too small, he had no offense to contribute, didn’t have the poise to use his skating ability to carry the pcuk out, rarely made a pass instead was jsut high and hard. He got swatted around quite a bit too on the forecheck…much like Pleks he really learned the art of subtle positioning tricks and leverage and has compensated…but very few are able to make those adjustments…he has but it sure didn’t look good the first year and a half he was here.
I haven’t posted quite a while, but just wanted to respond to Displaced’s comment:
Safe is becoming our trademark. I’d be more optimistic that there’s a Cup in our future if we rolled the dice, swung for the fences, or reached for the brass ring. If this team isn’t going to win it all, break it up. If it has a shot, make the big moves. Until we start taking chances are theme song as fans might be Stuck in the Middle with You.
I’m not saying he’s wrong necessarily — just that I don’t agree. : )
I guess it comes down to a personal choice: would you rather have a team that sucks for years, rolls the dice, builds a beast, finally wins a Cup, and then is forced to have a fire sale a-la-Chicago, struggling mightily again just to make the playoffs the following year? Or would you rather have a team that’s exciting to watch every year, that doesn’t always look like a contender but that always competes, always makes the playoffs, and is always a threat to be a giant-killer (taking down the Pens and Caps in the playoffs, say)? Is it worth it to win a Cup if that Cup run is sandwiched between many years of crappiness on either side? Even worse, imagine rolling the dice for a Cup run, mortgaging the house and selling big parts fo the future to build a great team in the present, and then not winning…
The question isn’t about whether we need to add a few extra pieces, get a little tougher, tweak the team so it competes better against the Bruins and Flyers of the league… It’s about a fundamental philosophy of team-building. And for me at least, it’s about what keeps us coming back to the arena and the TV screen year after year. For me at least, it’s all about the fun. Your brain might know that a few years of crappy hockey are a prelude to something bigger, but that doesn’t make it any more fun fro your heart to watch your team get shellacked all season. And the folks calling for a fire sale might ultimately be right in terms of long-term success, but I suspect that the teams they’d build wouldn’t be much fun to watch most years.
Staal missed about 40 too though. They have never really had their big 3 ccnetres..which is the strngth of their team. Malkin is done ofr the year, Crosby for another month or so,…but the Pens have battled on…pretty impressively IMO.
Sh*t. Cancel my previous statement. I must have still been dreaming of my approaching vacation.
Price played pretty bad against the Bruins, I didn’t see anyone saying it was all his fault. He wasn’t good, But the D was equally bad. Everyone knows it was a shared responsability.
Well Steve, I respect you, your knowledge and your opinion and this seems to be a reasonable approach for the future. It’s the likely fallback position though it does nothing to resolve the issue today. As you say he’s a Hab now and through next year and people have to accept that fact. That’s the most difficult part for those who truly believed this particular team was capable of making a Cup run this season, or even next. At this time we can only hope either Gomez alone or he along with the coaching staff can figure out how to get him back on track. None of us can have the slightest influence or impact on that so we’re stuck here just crossing our fingers and hoping for the best. Acceptance and patience are difficult things for fans to learn.
Funny how when Price plays bad it’s all his fault, nothing to do with his team or his conference, yet when Halak play’s bad it has nothing to do with Halak, it’s because of his team and his conference. You Halakites are just full of excuses aren’t you Tony?
Gomez is overpaid, there is no doubt about it. But he is a solid 2nd line centre, if not 1st line in some teams.
I think he is worth around 5 mil. That means we lost 2.3 mil cap space for nothing.
Is 2.3 mil a big deal, yeah sort of, but it is not the end of the day. I don’t think it is bad enough we need to send him away while taking half of his cap hit (3.7 mil), unless we are getting something in return.
We’ll never know…. Just focussing on the “big” comment. We have some big boys on the farm to fit the “big” word.
That’s a dumb statement. You say it’s a team game, and then compare the standings like Hlalak and Price are solely responsible for where their respective teams stand. The Blues have not made the playoffs 5 out of 6 years. On top of that, they have had more devestating injuries than anyone. They’re not very good. I am sure Halak would have the same or better numbers than Price if he were with the Habs. I mean last year, on definately a worse defensive squad, he had better number than Price has now. If Halak was a Hab and Price a Blue, the standings would be the same.
So ignoring the Higgins and Valentenko part of the deal…Gomez for McDonagh…a trade for an established player (no matter what people think of him) for a prospect…GEE THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE…
Besides, the team needed a centre to go with a hopefully improved Pleks at the time..who else would have fit the role of top-2 centre that could have been possibly been attained….not many options at the time…
In any case, my point is, the way people are jumping on Gomez is the way people were all over Price the last 2 seasons…he was practically run out of town until PG did his thing.
“I am guilty of using elipses…”
That argument holds no water whatsoever (like a lot of your posts) because of the uneven schedule.
Detroit won the President’s Trophy from playing Columbus, Chicago, Nashville and St. Louis over and over again.
—Hope Springs Eternal—
and mara and boyd and spacek and mab – moen dont look too great either anymore – and the lack of cap space was overpaying hamrlck and gomez even being here put there by the 2 gms.
injury excuse for losers. pens have been without 2 REAL SUPERSTARS much of the year and still keep winning – green bay packers had so many on ir they could have fielded a comple offensive and defensive extra team than they were allowed.
Much of the year? Sid’s been out 15 games and Malkin out 13 games out of 56 games played. At least your name isn’t the “mathematician.”
You’re lost in space, if you think that trade was a good one. It was horrible. Maybe Ribeiro had to be traded, but Gainey once again got robbed in the deal.
I am not getting on the Get Rid of Gomez Train…is he in a big slump right now? Yes. Is he having a bad season? Yes. But guess what? EVERY player goes through it…they have good and bad periods and even good and bad WHOLE seasons….you all go around and accuse him of not caring and jsut cashing a cheque…HOW THE HECK DO YOU KNOW? How do you know that it isn’t bothering him? How do you know that he isn’t trying? Easy targets, are just that, easy…does not necessarily mean they are the right target.
We know what Gomez is capable of, we have seen it…just because it isn’t there now does not mean that it is gone forever.
Every player experiences it…look at Drew Doughty, he is having a poor season by the high standards that we hold him to…does that mean LA should dump him fast and hard for ONE poor season?
NHL skill – as a 6th d-man – who plays about 15-17 minutes per night.
2nd line penalty kill – no power play.
Picard was acquired for the 2nd line power play
I don’t want to speak for Ed, but I think what he was saying is that Picard doesn’t play like he’s 6’3″. To be honest, Gill doesn’t play like he’s 6’7″. They certainly can use their size to ride out or corral their opponents, but they don’t hit anybody or put the fear of God into them.
I know I’ll be unpopular for saying this, but I thought Gill should have punched out somebody’s lights in the Boston game. I know that’s not his style but still….. The word’s kind of out on how Gill plays (his game) in Montreal and teams are adjusting. They also realize that Subban and The Wiz have major gaps in their defensive coverage. Once again, they are adjusting.
I’d hate to think where we would be this year without Hamrlik. He has repeated his heroic efforts from last year. Not sure how much longer you can ask a 37 year old to play 25 minutes a game, night after night. He’ll be toast by the playoffs (just like in 2010).
I’ll take the Cup.
Isn’t that what it’s all about?
Chicago has a Stanley Cup, and with the exception of Price, their building blocks are better than ours.
We could have taken the same approach back in 2003, but didn’t. Fair enough.
We are now trying a different approach by signing high priced UFAs to go along with some good kids. There’s about a three year window of opportunity. After that, we will have to re-visit Displaced’s way of thinking.
Check your calendar
on this site, you will NEVER get support for the position that management is the problem.
and to Gauthier’s credit, I like the Wiz, and I like Eller (although I wish we could have gotten a power forward instead of a center).
I watched Martin’s Senators get beat up and intimidated by the Leafs in the playoffs – and lose – year after year after year.
The Sens were always more talented – but they lacked the grit to fight off a tougher Leaf team.
Martin does not believe in tough, gritty, hockey – it might lead to stupid penalties – which, for Martin, – is not worth the grit and toughness.
Its not his style – and he continues to get hired – so there are NHL executives who agree with him.
on this site, HIO posters support the Habs players AND management.
until the Habs start losing……..
then even the greatest and most experienced fans (last year) were calling for Martin’s head.
It’s a team game, look at where Halaks team is in the standing’s and look at where Price’s team is in the standing’s.
hockey hypocrite/goons try to injure players and talk about other morals should be. 2 of those fools on team 990 every friat 9am-10am – dykhuis and bobby dollas who both are great critics of morals – and those 2 stiffs think they were stars when they played. dykhuis about subban knocking him said when the other announcer said subban is playing for his fans who loved it – dykhuis jumped in “oh no – players dont play for the fans – they play for thye other players on the team” — this is what these canadian high school dropouts think!!!!!!!!!1
Because Gomez hasn’t produced as expected doesn’t make Gainey an idiot. Fans who think they know more than any hockey guy is an idiot. We are a better team than 2 years ago “FACT”!!!
Ridiculous…Tim Brent of the Leafs pulled the celebration when he scored against Atlanta last week…and NO ONE COMPLAINED….just pure bias against Europeans, the Habs and skin color.
Price is 2.43 and .918 stats
Halak is 2.58 and .909 stats.
I agree that Price has played great – but Halak’s season is far from terrible.
Nilan and Ferguson did not make the Habs weaker. They had the opposite effect.
Show me a team that Gomez is a top line center on and I’ll show you a lottery team…
Don’t really want to get into this debate (I’ve already said my piece, and I stand by it), but that had to be said…
The only interesting answers are those which destroy the questions. ~Susan Sontag
islanders really???????????????? didnt they easily beat the habs 4-1 in their last meeting?
It would be interesting to see what Markov, Gorges and Cammy’s comments and reactions while watching the Boston game (if they watched it). Has there been any sighting of Gorges since his surgery?
“Start the season with a clean equipment bag and a freah bucket of febreze!”-CharlieHodgeFan
PG had few reasons not to think we were a better team than last year (and we are). If our D stays healthy we dont need to score as many goals. When our D game is in the toilet, last 2 games, then we lose. If Tampa loses 2 of their best scoring forwards, where are they??? We are a D team first cuz we don’t have up front what is needed, yet.
you missed my point and Pens won’t be a better team with their injuries either. I’ve never seen green bay play hockey so mute point
ummm Picard is 6-3/215 lbs. Is that not big in your eyes?
Just like to say that it’s such a nice thing to see such rays of sunshine as Observer and ManApart on here.
I don;t know why this bothers me so much but what did everyone have agaisnt Craig Rivet that they think we absolutely hosed the Sharks in that trade. Rivet was here for the rough years and I think people forget the guy could actually play and while a step down offesneively from Souray, but easily a step or two up defensively he had the same heart and passion. Rivet was a team guy from day one. We got Gorges who has emerged as a number 3 or 4 guy and he is a character guy,etc but so was Rivet at the time. Now he is 36 years old but San Jose was intent on makign a run, they did what teams do they traded a yung prospect for an established, tough dman who could also contribute offensively…
If a 32 year old Craig Rivet were available right now…that is what I would be trading for to help us out. He was a leader, a no nonsense guy who also put up 35 points in Sj in his full year there, he then went on to captain Buffalo, now he is too old…but at the time that deal worked out as it should have for both sides….had San Jose not had a choking Nabokov that deal could have went down as a great deadline move, had they not choked the next year the trade would be viewed viery diff’tly…either way…..neither of us won a cup….sure we still have Gorges…but what good is that now that he is hurt….he and Rivet are still both not playing….I like Gorges but he is extremely overrated on here…he is a role modle to all for diff’t reasons but Rivet at the time of that deal was better IMO or equivalent to what Gorges has become…and in our teams particular case I would love to give up our next Josh Gorgeswho is years away from prime time for two years of a still effective Craig Rivet type if there is one available. We have many dmen moving forward that are undersized…we need a damn Craig Rivet type…as sad as that is for many to believe.
I am sick
accepting the fact that Markov and Gorges (and maybe Darche) are done for the season,
does that mean that we are no longer trying to win the Cup?
well, I refuse to give up on an entire season.
to me here is what the team is missing:
1) replace 1 of the bottom 6 forwards with Ryan White – and let White forecheck, hit, and play his game
2) acquire 1 more scorer – Fisher type of player – not a cap heavy star that will kill our farm system, but a guy that knows how to score 25 goals per season –must be gritty, 200+ pounds, and not afraid – add this player to our top 6
3) acquire 1 solid, hard hitting, plays with edge, d-man; a 3rd pairing type, stay at home who can add in terms of physicality;
the players who need to be removed from the starting lineup are:
Pyatt, AK 46 (in a deadline trade), Webber
even without Markov and Gorges, Habs could make noise in the playoffs with HOT GOALTENDING + these 3 changes.
someone mentioned moving desharnais to the wing and eller to centre.
I would try that move – I really like desharnais as a guy who can put points on the board, and I’m convinced that
Eller is lost as a winger. Eller needs to play Center not wing.
THIS IS EXACTLY RIGHT. Excellent post.
I want to watch a competitive team play, I love my hometown hockey team. No one still plays for the team from when I lived there, but I am excited about Price, Gorges, Markov, Plekanec, PK, Max, etc. I want the team to grow with these guys and yes, I know the team won’t win the cup now (or for a few years maybe), that’s ok as long as they contend and get in the playoffs. They are the link to my hometown and what is is known for, great hockey that doesn’t have to beat people up to win a la Lucic a la Pronger.
I’m with you on that one, CO.
As long as we compete and not make a mess of ourselves, I’m very happy.
I was talking with a buddy the other day, and we came to the conclusion that people who subscribe to the ‘fire-sale-tear-it-all-down-and-start-again-from-the-management-to-the-skate-sharpener’ concept should just support another team at the end of the season. New management, and a whole brace of new players. Yay!
I’m not one for ‘short-term choke for long-term cheer’. That concept is as alien to me as the guy on your cosom hockey team scoring on your own goalie during a loss, claiming ‘we were going to lose anyway.’
Right on, but I think P.G. is smart enough not to let other GM take adv of things, we didn’t overpay to get Wiz when Gorges went out. To be honest I really don’t want to see any big moves for any draft picks. We haven’t had many picks in the early rounds lately.
just picking at you…..it was kind of funny because it was so close to the other post and on the same page lol I have no monopoly on Habs fanaticism and I liken us to they typing monkeys..at some point one of us will type every possibility in the Habs world
Im a very chill guy and it appears Gomez is also, honestly Id like to hang out with him in the off season. He seems to have lost the fire on the ice. Something needs to happen to him ‘upstairs’ as its all in his head.. Hes smart, witty, a great lockerroom guy.. but something is missing. He has the talent, maybe lost the creativity or the drive.. im not sure what. I sure hope he finds it, has some sort of epiphany.. cuz he doesnt seem to care too much. He’s not talking on the ice, not getting involved.. Ok, so he’s overpaid.. please stop hating him because he hired the right agent. Lets just hope he wakes up and starts to try new things.
I think he is movable without waivers and buyouts after next season….the fact his contract was front end loaded is very beenficial at that point to the non cap teams. They will get Gomez at approx fair value in real dollars or close to and the cap hit is actually a benefit to them….I can see Dallas actually…especially if Riochards walks or is dealt but the two organizations have many connections and Dallas is in a strange state financially…and there are other teams We won’t get a deal that is anywhere near what we gave up but the contract is movable at that point IMO without us eating more cap space and having it drag out. Ia m more concerned abut next seasona s I had it pegged as one we would take a serious run…next year is where the Gomez deal hurts us the most IMO. In fact it will likely mean one of Gorges or Markov walking.
Right on. I am not sure what changes are to be made…I trust management to do what is right given the facts and what is available. But I for one, do not think the season is over.
Heck, everyone on here was ready to firesale and end the season when Gorges was added to the long-term injury list with Markov and then the team went on to win 10 of 15 games or something like that. The game is played on the ice by the players, not by us and our emotions.
One other thing…lots of people complain that Gainey got Gomez and allowed Sather to get a great player in Gaborik…but it must be pointed out that Gaborik is not working out:
If Gainey was an idiot for allowing the Rangers to get Gaborik…then why didn’t the Rangers use Gaborik in the shootout in the last game of last season when a win would have gotten them into the playoffs? Instead he was stapled to the bench.
If Gainey was an idiot for allowing the Rangers to get Gaborik then why has Gaborik been scratched, benched and blasted by his coach and putting up poor numbers (for Gaborik) this season?
This is why…we the fanbase are just a bunch of asshats that are reactionary…we claim to think and know hockey, but instead we act like know-it-alls…if we are wrong about something, we leave it out to support our viewpoint stubbornly, we refuse to acknowledge facts that are true but contrary to our viewpoint. We just think that what and who we want, we can get regardless of what is possible and reasonable. The real GMs know what the limitations are.
but how much skill do they have?
Playing with Gomer put Gionta in a slump. As soon as his linemates play with other players they’re better.
It’s going to reach the point where he’s better off playing somewhere else because the crowd is going to get merciless.
i was a rivet fan, but getting a first and a prospect (georges) was win
that was a darn good player who got the shootout winner. i swear i hoped as the shootout started that he never would have got to shoot.
Nice post, Rob. I think I agree with nearly everything you stated.
Of course, some of it I don’t remember because I started reading it an hour ago.;o)
LOL. There’s always the Rivet trade from you guys. One good trade and many bad ones, make you incompetent. It should be the other way around.
In our last three games, Gomez, Eller, and AK are a combined minus-18 with one point between them. That’s downright brutal. Not going to win many hockey when two players, that are supposed to be top-6 forwards, are not only not scoring, but are giving up goals to the opposition.
JM definitely has some work to do.
I would rather have a guy like Carkner than Picard as my 6th d-man.
I like Carkner’s grit and toughness.
He is the “type” of d-man we are missing.
I was a big Ludwig fan.
He is the type of d-man that we need.
he was no goon.
He protected the ice for our goalies and our smaller players.
Yeah but PK is black. So c’mon. It’s just not right.
question: what means more to you?
you being right?
or the habs winning?
Look, trading for Gomez was as bad as it gets. He wasn’t great last season, is terrible this year and looks like he’s on a downward curve in the cming years. His cap hit is a very big problem in today’s NHL. Gainey ignored this because he was desoerate and delusional, and the Habs are suffering for it. There’s no way around saying he was an idiot. If the Habs do win a Cup, then the deal will still be a bad one, but it just won’t matter because the team overcame it.
with the same money we used to sign Picard.
it was not a money issue.
Sick? Like got a cold? Me too. It’s effin’ killing me. Day 5 and no end in sight…
I don’t think that SJ got hosed, but I think that moving Rivet when we did was a very good deal for us. He certainly played hard, and wore the jersey with pride, and I don’t have any problems with his play as a Hab.
That being said, I think that Gorges is a more mobile shut-down man that Rivet was, and we’ve got him for a good long while.
I think some of what you say is true, but what I’ve noticed is that Hamr and Spatch are neither here nor there defencemen. They’re not mobile attackers with good d-sense, nor are they shut-down types. That’s okay, but it seems that their roles get confused. Rivet wasn’t fast enough, and we’ve already got Gill in that role. Getting another big slow grinding defenseman may not be the best way forward.
That being said, maybe I’m not so sure myself.
So Habs management are incompetent cuz they don’t go and sign or trade for WHO YOU WANT?
Here’s a thought for you: have you ever considered for even one second that maybe, just maybe, Habs management have pursued free agents and deals that the other side just doesn’t want to make? Have you noticed there are 29 other NHL teams out there with GMs that weren’t born yesterday? Guess not.
So continue being “heavily critical” of Gauthier or Gainey cuz they don’t get what YOU want after all it’s about YOU.
This sense of entitlement that some Hab fans have is bordeline psychotic.
hammer is overpaid but that was from 4 yrs ago. i’ll give you mara but again at the time it did not aappear to be a bad deal – but he was terrible. MAB helped the PP immensly, he stunk on D but again was know at the time. moen, boyd, it happens – noone expected much and they are not paid much. spacek – idk what is with him, looks good sometimes and other times gives MAB a run for turnover leader… he is servicable and i’d be happy with him at 1.5M (again in retrospect).
so really i’ll give you mara as a bad signing and admit that gomez in a flop.
i have forever wished we had koivu at $3M instead of gomez but i’m starting to get past it. . . . although the boston game – UGH.
of course not, ive been wrong, have conceided but always put the success of the team ahead of my ego
Ya you’re 100% correct about Rivet. We need a defenseman like him in his younger days at the deadline.
Don’t they go hand in hand?
exactly 24. ALWAYS TAKE THE CUP!!
Do you even have to ask…?
Of course you’re right as you say you always are (snicker) which supports my definition of an idiot. lol Are we not a better team than we were before “the worst trade in Habs history”? I’d be a fool to say Gomez has made us better but he is one of several pieces that were added to make the overall team better. If you or others want to pick on 1 player, that is your right, but to call out Gainey for Gomez play is IDIOTIC!!!
Nothing against Rivet, but he was a UFA and was turned into Gorges and 22 year old that has 9 goals in 26 NHL games this year, that was a huge trade win for Montreal. It worked out for the Sharks too.
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