Subban’s stock falling with each Habs win


Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin met with unsigned restricted free agent P.K. Subban and his agent, Don Meehan, Friday in Toronto and the word is that the defenceman will use the weekend to mull over his options.

The Gazette’s Pat Hickey writes in his weekly Pitter Pat-ter column that Subban’s stock is falling with each Canadiens win and that he is hurting his brand during the contract squabble.

“He is playing into the hands of what I call the haters and the doubters — the people who believe he is a selfish and overrated player,” Hickey writes. “Subban answered those charges last season when he changed his playing style, concentrated on playing better defence and led the team in ice time and defence scoring.”

TSN’s Darren Dreger tweeted this on Saturday morning: “Little or no progress made in PK Subban contract negotiations. Habs firm on 2 year deal, roughly $5 mil total. Offer sheet? Trade? Options.”

 TSN’s Bob McKenzie has already stated: “I think it’s ultimately heading toward a trade.”

Friday’s practice in Brossard was an optional one following Thursday’s 4-1 win in Washington. Taking part in the practice were goalie Peter Budaj, defencemen Tomas Kaberle and Yannick Weber, and forwards Erik Cole, Travis Moen, Colby Armstrong, Brandon Prust, Lars Eller, Ryan White, Alex Galchenyuk and Brendan Gallagher.

The Canadiens practise again at 11 a.m. Saturday in Brossard and the 24 CH reality show has its premiere at 10:30 p.m. Saturday on RDS with the English premiere slated for 8 p.m. on Feb. 4 on TSN.

Here are some stories to keep you busy as we wait for Sunday’s game against the New Jersey Devils at the Bell Centre (6 p.m., RDS, TSN 690 Radio).

Subban hurting his brand in contract dispute, by Pat Hickey

Canadiens insist Subban saga isn’t a distraction, by Dave Stubbs

Brandon Prust Fan Club keeps on growing, by Stu Cowan

Time isn’t always wasted in the sin bin, by Dave Stubbs

The kids are all right with Canadiens, by Pat Hickey

Pitter Pat-ter notebook, by Pat Hickey

Photo gallery from Friday’s Habs practice in Brossard

Devils’ Stephen Gionta looking forward to facing brother Brian in Montreal, by New Jersey Star-Ledger

Devils are a not-so-perfect 3-0 after win over Capitals Friday night, by New Jersey Star-Ledger

And finally, happy birthday to The Great One, Wayne Gretzky, who turns 52 on Saturday.

(Photo by Rob Carr/Getty Images)



  1. Stormin says:

    MY 2 Cents:
    Have we all gone mad low balling, really after almost losing a year in a lock out. The Habs are trying to get lets say a 2 year 5.5-6 Million deal done with PK. This is the situation he is in, the CBA he is part of he is an RFA as Carey and Max before him.. If Pk signs for say 2.75 M that is a 224% increase on his salary from last year, play at the incredibly hard to live on salary for 2 years, provide more stability and excellence and commitment to your teammates and then oh my poor PK get another another 150% raise, if you are as good as you project yourself to be..

    There is no low balling going on here , by the Habs. this is strictly business, and playing by the CBA, PK is losing his mind, to fame an stardom, get in the dressing room and be a teammate and play some hockey or i am sure he will be sitting out the season, MB should not budge off the bridge contract..

    • boing007 says:

      The best comment yet. Thanks.

      Richard R
      Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

    • Loonie says:

      Low balling is a part of business, and as such low balling him is business.

      Just as his refusal to accept the low ball offer is part of business.

      Business Business Business.

      BTO baby.

    • commandant says:

      Do you really believe that PK is at the same level as Price was when he lost his starting job…. or Max was when he had less career goals and far less career points than PK does today?

      Would you trade PK 1 for 1 with Michael Del Zotto, cause he’s getting offered the same contract.

      Do you think he’s worth 1.4 million per year less than Cam Fowler and John Carlson?

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

      • K-hab25 says:

        Price was an All-Star and the teams #1 goaltender for most of his first 3 seasons. Not to mention as you and others like you conveniently leave out, Halak was gone for over 2 months before Price signed. He was and still is, a hell of alot more important to the team than Subban. If Price wanted to be a prima-donna like Subban, he would’ve had a lot more leverage to do so than PK has. The team just traded the playoff hero so that Price could be “the man”, how stupid would the front office look if they couldn’t get Price signed. PK is more proven than Pacioretty, but no way is he more proven, or important to the team, than Price was when he signed his bridge deal.

    • New says:

      No place for that kind of thinking around here. The only reason the Canadiens weren’t relegated to a lower tier last year was PK, and of course that the NHL doesn’t relegate bottom place teams.

      In other words: yes you are right.

  2. Bill says:

    There are several problems trading PK Subban.

    One is that you have to get good value. A player of equal value.

    Two is that you really also need to get a player of similar age. Get a good young player whom you could potentially have as long as the Habs could have Subban right now.

    Three is that if they trade Subban for a forward, he needs to be replaced on D down the road.

    How many players are there who are PK’s age and of equal value to their team? I’m thinking not many.

    Subban is the kind of player you want to lock down long term, so why not just do it?

    Full Breezer 4 Life

    • Loonie says:

      bridge contract.

      Philosophy however flawed is worth sticking to even if the chances of a true comparable in the future are astronomical(SARCASM).

    • twilighthours says:

      We should just all make this our signature.

    • New says:

      The NHL is full of players given big contracts and not living up to them. People here were aghast at Komo bolting to TO and delighted when he was shown to be average. You can cite a thousand examples. Are the Caps the same team after stringent monitoring? What about… well the list never ends. Better for everyone if a player is paid on what he has done than to pay them on what they might do.

    • derfab says:

      Dead on. It has not been done because the Habs, not PK, are arrogant. And by the way, the mistake that started the great Habs slide was not the Roy episode, but the Kirk Muller for Turgeon and the Malaka one. Business-minded people have screwed hockey, good players and good teams over repeatedly. The `builder` category, ha!

    • K-hab25 says:

      “why not just do it” Well because we own his rights, for what, 4 or 5 more years before he becomes a UFA. A much better question is WHY DO IT?

  3. Captain aHab says:

    People saying that DD can’t possibly have a season where he scores close to a point a game need to realize that over the last 43-44 games, he had 39 points. That will net him more than $2.5M per year, especially if Subban gets $5M. That’s why MB needs to think about this even if you don’t. He can’t just start handing out large contracts without thinking of the repercussions. And you KNOW he would not be able to afford to lose/diss DD in a scenario like that one after saying just how important francophones are on his watch.

    Me skull and crossbones arn’t the only thing I plan on raisin’ tonight.

    • New says:

      Coaching staff and team mates are people to. Going into a RFA or UFA year they give you ice and opportunity. If they didn’t your agent would scream, twitter assassinate the in house competition, and leak garbage to the media. That is the way it is. You can’t do anything about the agent but you can move the player while giving him a big hug and love, but never during the assassination, always after the smoke has cleared.

  4. Loonie says:

    Bergevin’s playing with fire here.

    Let’s say the Senators or Blues offer sheet Subban at $5 million annually and Bergevin can’t or doesn’t match.

    One 1st round pick and one 3rd round pick…..probably in the twenties.

    That’d be great eh.

    A high likelihood of two busts for a likely future NHL star.

  5. JaggerHope says:

    Who likes the prospect of trading Subban and Eller to Florida for Gudbranson and Huberdeau? In the forward department we’ll get a solid prospect and an upgrade in Huberdeau and we’ll have a slight downgrade in the Defensive side but Habs seem to be holding up without Subban now and Gudbranson will only add more strength to the D-Corps…

    – Jagger Hope

    • Loonie says:

      I do but I suspect Tallon isn’t on strong enough medication.

    • vegas says:

      if the latest rummor is correct, then i’m on Subbans camp

      2 years 5.1,

      2.2 first year, 2.9 second year

      Thats kind of rediculous

      and lets not make comparisons with Price and Max. Price was splitting work with Halak and had actually lost his starting job at one point, Max had spent half the season in the minors and then had a devastating injury against Chara

      You’d think they would be offerring something between 3 and 4.

      PK has been our number 1 D for the last 2 seasons and logging huge minutes

      how aboth Schenn, Schenn and a second


      Subban and Webber

      At least it gives us a young big body right D in return

    • jmsheehy19 says:

      We’d have to add (Can’t believe I’m saying that), especially as Florida is really high up on both those guys

  6. marlboro says:

    P.K, I love you! I want you here for 10 years…but shut your mouth! “I just want what I’m worth” crap makes you sound like the kid that you are. You are a major part of this team, everyone knows it! Have some class please! I don’t care if they’re low-balling you, I don’t care if you accept it or not..just close your mouth. It’s making you sound like a brat. 29000 every two weeks until your 25… After taxes by the way… Zip it, and play! You’ll get what you think you deserve the next deal. Pay your dues. You are no different then Carey, Max…or Georgey.. I’m more afraid now, that the chemistry in the room will be disrupted by your return. I’d be thinking, “who does this kid think he is?” Shut up and play!

  7. jedimyrmidon says:

    The offer reported from Habs management on Twitter is definitely lowballing him.

    If MB is adamantly sticking to the team’s current salary structure without taking into consideration how PK’s situation is justifiably different, then that is foolish.

    There some, like many on RDS, who stick to the line ‘no player is bigger than the team’. While that is true, if the response is to then lowball a young player who is definitely within reach of becoming an elite Dman then they have lost sight of the fact that not only the Habs’ salary structure matters in negotiating a new contract.

    I’m hoping that Habs management moves up towards 4M/yr range (if the offer reported is true) and that both sides agree on this.

  8. twilighthours says:

    @helluva hab fan,

    I am with you, sir. I’m one of those guys who doesn’t care about these players off ice, what they do politically or whatever. I don’t even care much for salary (unless it impedes the team from improving, like with gomer).

    But it has been so long since my favourite team was good. And since I’ve been watching hockey (mid eighties) I’m not sure I’ve ever had a player to watch like subban. I’m too old for favourite players and such, but I just love watching this kid play and watching what he brings to the rink. It would be terribly sad if he was dealt. To me, he is one of the best d in the league and one of its most exciting players.

    So I guess I’m a big fan.

  9. montrealtilldeath says:

    I am sick of all the “we do not need PK” BS. Who have we beaten. A tired Florida team in a back to back and a pathetic Caps team that has lost 4 straight. What happens when we start playing the Bruins, Senators and the Jets etc. Yes the jets who are much stronger and tougher. I emphasize tougher as they will pound our soft DMen. What happens when the strong Bruin forwards go after Markov who is very good but they know he has a fragile knee and the key player. Will it stand up in the back to back games. This is how he got hurt in the first place by Jacques Martin playing him too much. The fatigued muscles supporting the knee gave out and he was injured on a routine hit. What is the back up plan? Stop listening to the media and the Don Cherry BS. I thought that was all cleared up in the confrontation between PJ Stock and Kevin Weekes on the CBC broadcast. Weekes certainly put him in his place. The man was stutteringNo one has any idea what figues are being thrown around. If you watched closely the Cherry/Maclean conversation they were throwing around a PK demand for 6 million. Utter rubbish to build greedy Subban image. What I heard from Weekes was a 2.5 miilion per year offer for 2 years from the Canadians. Maclean was part of the Weekes Stock panel did not say a word. The truth is an amazing thing. We pay Plekanec 5 million per year. If PK and Plekanec were offered to other teams which player do you thing would be chosen. I rest my case.

  10. J_P says:

    As per the discussion of cap space for next season, I am pretty sure that Kaberle will most likely be a compliance buy-out, so that will save us some cap space. Actually, considering Bourque has so many years left on his deal, I think it would make more sense to use our remaining complicance buy-out on Bourque, and use a regular buy-out on Kaberle. Gomez’ Cap hit also comes off the books next season.

    As far as Galchenyuk, I am pretty sure there’s a clause that it’s ok to be over the Cap because of bonus money up to a certain level.

    Getting PK under the cap with a $4M per year deal shouldn’t be a problem.

    • HammerHab says:

      not even gonna give Bourque a chance eh? What exactly don’t you like about his game this year? He hasn’t been nearly as bad as Kaberle has been.


      It’ll always be Habs Inside/Out to me

      • J_P says:

        Unless he starts lighting it up with consistentcy, he’s not worth it for me. He’s a lazy player, always has been. Notorious for having a fast start to the season than trailing off. Calgary didn’t take a $6M cap hit for cammalleri and trade us Bourque because he’s such a great player. Bourque is a problem player. Right now we have a log-jam, and I would rather have gallagher and eller on our team than bourque next year.

        • Loonie says:

          False. Undrafted NHL players aren’t known for being notoriously or consistently lazy after CONSISTENTLY producing offensively and defensively.

          Try again.

          • J_P says:

            What? Do you even know anything about Rene Bourque before he came to Montreal? Doesnt seem like you do.

            He had 24 points in 76 games last year, and hes already 31 years old. I dont get the love for this guy.

          • Loonie says:

            Yes. I obviously know nothing about him and you`re an NHL encyclopedia.

    • HabFab says:

      You can exceed the Cap by a certain percentage of bonus money BUT it is then taken off the top of your next years Salary Cap.

    • jols101 says:

      If Bourque keeps playing the way he has been his 3.3 million cap hit isn’t an issue. If he returns to last years Bourque then maybe.

    • Loonie says:

      If Bourque keeps playing like he has I wouldn’t be in any hurry to buy him out of a pretty good contract at $3.3 million annually.

      If that salary makes or breaks your budget you’ve got some serious problems elsewhere.

      • J_P says:

        The cap is pretty tight and is going down next year. $3.3M is nothing to sneeze at.

        Pacioretty is going up to $4.5M next season. Carey makes $6.5M, Gionta makes $5M, Markov makes $5.75, Pleks makes $5M, Cole makes over $4.5M, Gorges makes $3.9M, PK is going to get over $4M…. There’s only so much money to go around, and Bourque/Kaberle are definitely at the top of my list to cut. Bourque would definitely be my compliance buy-out because we only get one, and bourque has another 3 years left. Buying out Karberle on normal buy-out would cost us $1.42M for the next two seasons on the cap, and Bourque’s $3.3M would be completely erased in using the complicance buy-out. That equates to over $6M in cap savings for next season by my count.

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          The thing is, a big winger who can score like René Bourque has shown in the past is a bargain at $M3.3. He’s had an encouraging start to the season, unlike his buyout candidate counterpart Tomas Kaberle.

          Further, the Canadiens are in a bottleneck when it comes to the cap only next season, with P.K. Subban and David Desharnais needing raises. With Scott Gomez gone, and Brian Gionta and Andrei Markov coming off the books in 2014, the urgency to rid ourselves of overpaid players will have passed. So if next year is the problem year, then buying out Mr. Kaberle’s last season makes much more sense.

          • J_P says:

            Bourque had 24 points in 76 games last season. Hes 31 years old. He has precisely 1 assist this year. Even in his good years he was streaky. He had one really good season which was 2009-2010. On top of which, his stats have steadily declined from their peek of 58 pts in 2009-2010.

            The guy has a little jump in his step to start the season and all of a sudden everyone loves the guy? I dont get it…

  11. Un Canadien errant says:

    There was a lot of talk about Michel Therrien’s new system before the season began, and I was skeptical as to how much it would differ from Jacques Martin’s ‘Le Système’. Don’t it seem like all teams now play ‘dump and chase’ in the offensive zone anyway? Don’t they all collapse back onto their goalie in the defensive zone and block shots, creating a big cluster in front of their goaltender and hoping that while they crosscheck and slash the opposition there will be a big enough tangle of legs and skates and sticks that a puck won’t get through?

    Gaston Therrien spent a lot of time on the video board on l’Antichambre on RDS, trying to educate viewers on the fine points of the new approach the Canadiens will employ. He’d diagram how the team will put pressure on the puck with two defencemen and a winger in the corners in the defensive zone, with various rules such as: “The second defenceman will commit himself only if he’s certain he’ll get the puck”. In the offensive zone, he showed how the defenceman will pinch in and put pressure on the opposing puck carrier to prevent a zone clear, but it will be crucial that his winger be aware of this and cover him in case the puck/puck carrier does get through. Anyway, Gaston demonstrated this with video taken at practice during the abbreviated training camp, and it all seemed to make sense and not be too earth-shattering, nothing too different than even what we were coached to do when I played rec league minor hockey.

    So what’s the big deal then? Well, it seems that it has transformed the Canadiens in their approach and their entertainment quotient. Whereas when we lost the puck in ‘Le Système’ one forward would put up cursory resistance and a semblance of a forecheck while the other four would race back to their zone to man the ramparts in Mr. Martin’s Rope-a-Dope, the boys now are more aggressive, in a more attacking frame of mind. They forecheck more, they don’t abandon ship at the first hint of a turnover. They don’t abandon territory immediately to go turtle around Carey Price.

    On offence, Nos Glorieux carry the puck more into the zone, instead of firing it into the corner and then chasing after it. We’ve seen a lot more breakouts where the guys attack in formation, with the usual suspects on defence and even Josh Gorges on occasion joining the rush.

    Now, this isn’t objectively better or worse than the Jacques Martin Système. It’s not going to be judged on Gaston’s videoboard or in a vacuum, but rather on the ice, and it’s probably too early to make any definitive statements, but at first glance it seems to have had a very positive effect on the way the team plays.

    First, the new style is much more entertaining. While winning games is the ultimate goal and is fun no matter what system is being used, some of the wins last season were hard to stay awake for. Most of the losses too. Michel Therrien system produces more watchable, entertaining hockey, if we discount the home-opening loss to the Leafs.

    Another positive change is that while the team has cast off smaller/meeker players like Mike Cammalleri, Scott Gomez and Andrei Kostitsyn and ices a more physical lineup, the Canadiens are still at heart a skating team, with a forward corps that is smaller than the St-Louis Blues or the Bruins for example, and a mobile defence that is more adept at corralling the puck in the corners in flight and launching a counterattack, rather than squatting in its zone and slugging it out with the opposition. As such, there were many analysts who proclaimed that we didn’t have the right team makeup for the style we played, and that the constant banging and shot blocking it necessitated accounted for the parade to the First Aid room that endured for the last couple of seasons. The new system is more suited to our mobile defence and lineup in general than the Système that Jacques Martin wrung so much out of.

    One aspect which I think can’t be underestimated is that the players must enjoy this style of play more, and it may account for an uptick in energy and commitment this season. We routinely speculated over the last couple of seasons that Scott Gomez would insist on carrying the puck and then curling to the sideboards instead of shooting it in the corner and then chasing after it for the very good reason that going in the corners hurt, especially for a smaller guy like him. He couldn’t have been overjoyed at the prospect of facing off against Zdeno Chara or Anton Volchenkov, and we suspect that many other Canadiens felt the same. Raphaël Diaz must have wondered what he was getting into when he had to stop a Jason Spezza shot with his ankle, and then go to the corner to take it away from Chris Neil.

    It’s a little bit like football offensive linemen having to choose between the passing game or run blocking. While running the ball isn’t that spectacular or fan-friendly, it’s fun for the guys up front because they get to beat on the defensive players, compared to passing plays where they backpedal and the reverse occurs. Lots of times, early on it seems pointless to run the ball, since it’s only netting a yard or two, but in the third quarter the toll mounts on the defence and often the results improve. It’s a cumulative result.

    Similarly, last season we’d often see the Canadiens wilt in the third period and surrender a slim lead. Going all out, giving 100% and sacrificing the body is all well and good, but when your shins are bruised and your lungs are on fire you can only do so much. The Rope-a-Dope can work in extremis, but after a couple round of letting your opponent tee off on you a few shots inevitably get through and it starts to hurt.

    Despite Mr. Martin’s protestations to the contrary, the Canadiens were inherently defensive in their approach and designed to sit on a lead. This season, if they don’t so willingly retreat to their zone and act as punching bags, and are quick to the puck and quick to break out, it may be less likely that leads are frittered away, they may actually put teams away as the opposition presses to tie up a game. And we may get to jump off our couch a few more times while cheering on the boys than we did in previous years.


    • V says:

      Kostitsyn was inconsistent but not small or meek. Regularly one of team’s strongest hitters.

    • HabFab says:

      Add getting players to compete for more then 20-40 minutes and we could have some good hockey this year.

      Work beats talent when talent doesn’t work.

    • Danno says:

      PK will have a ball with the new system if he gets a chance


      “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

    • HardHabits says:

      … and hopefully reduce the man-games lost to injury. There is a reason why Carbo’s team had the fewest injuries and Martin’s had the most.

      Good article. Nice of you to change the subject.

    • Phil C says:

      Well thought out post.

      I would say that although to differences between Martin’s system and Therrien’s system are subtle, I think they can also be the difference between winning and losing. For example, Martin’s trap would almost be a 0-1-4 with four players across the blueline, one forechecker in the neutral zone and no pressure on the puck carrier inside the blueline. The result was easy access to the redline. Once the redline was gained and four players back, the result was almost always a dump-in and a heavy forecheck on the Habs’ defense. This type of “trap” almost never resulted in neutral zone turnovers because the redline was gained too easily and risky passes were not required. And given that the Habs had a small and inexperienced D core, having to continually dig pucks out of their end was a recipe for losing.

      Therrien’s trap has been more of a 1-1-3, with a player putting pressure on the puck right away. If the attackers get past the first forechecker, the second forechecker steps up to pressure the puck BEFORE the redline. The result is either a good pass, an icing, or a dangerous turn-over. An easy dump in is not yielded. This is a formula for winning.

      So although the changes are subtle, the outcomes are dramatically different.

      Many of the players lamented many of JM’s systems last year (remember Cammy’s playing like losers rant?), but it seemed their complaints fell on deaf ears. Therrien has the lines of communication open so that if something is not working, he has a better chance of making a tweak for the better using the feedback. He deserves credit for this as well.

    • habsfan0 says:

      You’ve ascertained all of this from 3 games?

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        To the extent that I qualified it thus in the fifth paragraph (italics added):

        Now, this isn’t objectively better or worse than the Jacques Martin Système. It’s not going to be judged on Gaston’s videoboard or in a vacuum, but rather on the ice, and it’s probably too early to make any definitive statements, but at first glance it seems to have had a very positive effect on the way the team plays.

  12. Phil C says:

    I think the best comparable to PK is Erik Johnson. A former 1st overall pick, he also lead his team in ice time last year. He is 24 years old, he put up 39 points with the Blues a few years ago, similar numbers to PK, but only 26 points with the Avs. At 6’4″, 232lbs, the Hockey News says he has a bit of a mean streak and is a “big-minute all-round defenseman with size and upside.” Johnson’s contract is 4 years for $15M with a cap hit of $3.75M.

    Johnson has been inconsistent in his career as well, so I would put PK ahead of him based on how PK played at the end of last season. It seems easy to me to justify PK getting slightly more, like two years for $8M-$8.5M, especially with the cap going down next year, but not the $5M-$6M/year PK is asking for. Meehan’s comparables are for forwards, which is not a fair comparison, IMO.

    But if the Habs are only offering $5.2M over two years, I can see how this will end in a trade. The offer is so low, it makes me wonder if they are trying to force a trade or an offer sheet, because if they are, they are going about it the right way.

  13. habsfan0 says:

    I think by this time next week,cooler(and saner)heads will prevail,and PK will be signed and playing for the Habs.

  14. Mr. Biter says:

    How many other unsigned RFA’s are there out there?

    Mr. Biter
    No Guts No Glory

  15. Adidess says:

    I get the cap space problem. But when you want a car, do you go a car dealer and offer the 50 bucks in your pocket? Or you know it’s pony up or forget about it?

    How much cap space you have is part of the equation, but is it incumbent on the player to take whatever is left of team’s cap space regardless of market value or incumbent on the GM to figure out how he’ll make $ work?

    $2.5M per offer to PK still after 6 months of negotiations is ridiculous and tactically dumb (if true of course).

    • Captain aHab says:

      No you go to the car dealer and get financing. I miss how the Habs can do that for Subban.

      Me skull and crossbones arn’t the only thing I plan on raisin’ tonight.

      • Adidess says:

        You just made my point, Captain aHab. You get financing means you find a way to get the money you need, you don’t ask that the price of the car be lowered to what you can pay.

        In this case, the team needs to figure how it will shed some salary to make it work, noy saying to PK ‘sorry 2.5 is the price we can afford’.

  16. Loonie says:

    I think it’s fair to assume that team Subban released the offer information in light of the lack of progression in talks.

    Hopefully somebody gets Subban signed to a deal that pays him what’s reasonable AND Bergevin matches.

    Everybody wins.

  17. frontenac1 says:

    @Ron.Thanks amigo.Think I”ll spend some of my filthy Luchre from my NFL pool winnings!Saludos!

  18. neumann103 says:

    I always assumed that this was more about cap space next year than anything else. The Habs have a terrible squeeze in 2013-2014 and to find room to sign Desharnais and afford Subban they are probably going to be forced to buy out Kaberle.

    But it gets a lot better after that.

    The problem is that any long term deal messes up next year’s cap problem.

    At the same time I expect that Meehan is operating from the position “Look we know that PK is not arbitration eligible this year, but you know how this would end up if this did go to arbitration: roughly $4-4.5M ish on a 1 year deal. That sets some kind of reference.”

    So if Bergevin is actually offering a lowball bridge to get past that logjam is he in any position to make a handshake promise (with Molson and Meehan in the room as insurance) that they will sign the real long term deal on July 1 2014 that appropriately recognizes PK. By that point the deal would have to be bigger since these bridge RFA years would be gone so I think at a bare minimum you would be looking at 5 years/$30Million. I don’t know how explicit the CBA is about prohibiting this sort of thing. I am sure it must happen at some level with plausible deniability.

    “Et le but!”

    • Loonie says:

      They do not have a cap squeeze for next season unless they plan on paying Subban and Desharnais a combined $10 million.

      • Hobie Hansen says:

        And either Eller or Desharnais won’t be back in order to make room for Galchenyuk. I’m guessing.

      • Captain aHab says:

        OK, let’s say that they give Subban $5M and then DD gets going and gets close to a point a game….how much is he going to ask for considering that the Habs have already said that francophones are important so they won’t be able to risk losing him. Keep in mind that the AC gang will be having his back. In a situation like that, they might have to give him $5M too. Maybe it won’t happen but maybe it will. MB needs to think about that stuff too.

        Me skull and crossbones arn’t the only thing I plan on raisin’ tonight.

      • neumann103 says:

        I had DD and Subban pencilled in for a combined total of $6.75 M which probably has a little room in it if PK signs a bridge deal, but is way under if a long term deal is signed.

        I assumed that the Habs would not re-sign
        Armstrong, Colby
        White, Ryan
        Nokelainen, P.
        Bouillon, Francis
        Weber, Yannick

        but would replace their roster spots with similar paid players, either kids like
        Beaulieu, Nathan
        Gallagher, B.
        Tinordi, Jarred
        Leblanc, Louis
        Dumont, Gabriel
        or trades/signings of players making similar money. My assumptions use these essentially minimum wage kids so signing current NHLers who make more than $1M pushes this scenario.

        Using Capgeek numbers (but not using their calculations which can be flawed) and filling in estimates for unsigned players ( aforemetntioned DD and PK numbers plus 2012 numbers for Budaj and Dumont as minimal expectation for those roster spots) gets the 2013 -2014 number to about $67.7M of which about $2.3M is Galchenyuk bonus potential which could be pushed out a year if an issue.

        This gets to about $65.4 M including Kaberle. Which gets to the whole “it almost forces you to buy out Kaberle” part of the equation.

        If you do that then you can afford to fill roster spots with plausible options and commit dollars needed to sign DD and PK in any plausible scenario.

        But also my point is that the issue is primarily a next year issue. I have been hoping to God that this is mainly about Bergevin not wanting his hands tied for next year, and not criminally undervaluing Subban or trying to exploit his RFA non eligible status (either of which bodes ill in so many ways)

        To be clear if i were Bergevin I would probably be offering an 8 year $39M deal starting at $3.5M for the next couple of years and rising to $6M in his UFA years (avg cap hit at $4.875M) but I could understand if Bergevin wanted to avoid a crunch by splitting the immediate issue and the long term.

        “Et le but!

    • vegas says:

      if that was the case why not do
      3.5, 4, 4.5, 5, 5, 5

      • neumann103 says:

        Something like that makes sense but I think you have to offer a bit more to buy those UFA years in advance. I went a little longer in my speculative deal to spread it out. The average over the first 6 years is the same as your suggestion, but the optics of this might look a little better to the player, while for the team it should benefit from years locked in at todays rate and cap.
        $3.5, $3.5, $4.5, $4.5, $5.5, $5.5, $6, $6

        “Et le but!”

  19. Boomer says:

    uh oh.
    Just thought of a bad situation. Hypothetical guys:
    If Pk asks to be traded and someone gives him an offer sheet in the meantime, he signs and we only get a 1st rounder and a 3rd.(Depending on the offer sheet) If that team is a playoff bound team, we’re losing Pk for a very late 1st rounder and a third…
    poop end of the stick right there boys.

    I hope it doesn’t come to that.

  20. Boomer says:

    he isn’t worth over 5 mil and he isn’t worth under 3.

  21. HardHabits says:

    Take the contract or don’t you come back no more, no more, no more, no more.
    Take the contract don’t hit your ass with the door.
    If you wanna play!

    Woah Soobie, oh Soobie, don’t be so obscene,
    You’re not the best D that’s ever been on this team.
    You gotta take aim to score
    That wind-up of yours couldn’t hit a barn door

    Take the contract or don’t you come back no more, no more, no more, no more.
    Take the contract don’t hit your ass with the door.
    If you wanna play!

    Now Soobie, listen Soobie, you ain’t gettin’ played
    But you gotta do better for that bigger pay day
    Don’t care if you feel misunderstood
    you got time to make money gotta prove that you’re good.
    You aint elite cuz some blogger says so
    You got potential but a long way to go

    Take the contract or don’t you come back no more, no more, no more, no more.
    Take the contract don’t hit your ass with the door.
    If you wanna play!
    Take the contract or don’t you come back no more, no more, no more, no more.
    Take the contract don’t hit your ass with the door.

  22. Adidess says:

    We have heard various information regarding Subban’s demands ($6M per, $5M per, long term, short term). It’s harder to know what’s the truth.

    From the beginning, we never heard anybody say MB’s offer reach $3M per or terms of more than 2 years.

    This seems like the original offer everybody thought was the opening salvo in the negotiations

  23. frontenac1 says:

    Hola Amigos! The boys better be ready for the Devils on Sunday.Marty loves to kill us in our own Barn.Should be fun watching the two Gio”s going at it it.I l really like this free NHL Centre Ice package until the end of Jan.Anybody know what the cost is for the rest of the season on Bell ?

  24. Ian Cobb says:

    All players are in the entertainment business, they love it. It is what makes them tick and tock in life.

    Some of them are better actors and players than others, but it is the variety of different talent working and sharing the spotlight together as a group that brings the results from the audience that turns them on to entertain at even a higher level.

    Money is a big part for sure, but most of them would play for their team mates and the fans once they have secured their future.

    It is just a game that we would all love to excel at, but alas only a few get there!!

    • ed lopaz says:

      You know Ian that I respect you and you are a great supporter of HIO.

      But during this whole mess you have sided with management against PK, who you know personally very well.

      It turns out that our beloved Habs management is literally trying to rip off your friend PK.

      It’s time to put a little pressure on this management team or we are going to lose one of our best players.

  25. Hobie Hansen says:

    Pretty lame that we had to sit through four months of agonizingly boring labor talks between greedy owners and players that left us questioning our loyalty to the game we grew up loving.

    After the dispute was resolved and the billionaires and millionaires agreed to get back to playing and pamper us with free hotdogs and 50% off $250.00 jerseys that cost $5.00 to make, we thought we were ready to go.

    Now the Canadiens, and the city’s favorite player, PK Subban, are involved in another ugly dispute over money.

    I’m no different that most others on this site, I’ll turn the other cheek and continue to support the NHL and all the overpaid, greedy and non-compassionate people that are involved with it – while I divide up each of my paychecks and struggle to save a bit of money for the future and put a roof over my head.

    I find it amazing that all of us put up with this crap.

  26. Propwash says:

    Stubbs makes a good point.


    Re Subban: #Habs signed Max to 2 yr $3.2M gap contract, then dipped into it last summer, halfway through it, to extend him 6 yrs, $27M


  27. CCL says:

    This PK thing has to stop. either sign him or trade him or we’ll be listening to this Bs the rest of the season.

    you’d think he’s the next Bobby Orr the way some people think on here.

  28. Bripro says:

    All of this hype, rhetoric and blood-pressure reaction based on unfounded, or at least unproven speculation.
    I have an oversized bottle of Valium for anyone looking to calm down a little.
    I think we should have all learned our lesson during the lock-out that, until a reported tweet or rumor is issued and confirmed by the organization, even by members of the media, we really have no idea what is being discussed or negotiated behind Habs’ closed doors. So what’s the use of posting one negative after another?

  29. Boomer says:

    Don’t know if this will end up deleted but it gave me a chuckle

  30. ed lopaz says:

    Gaston Therrien on Antichambre last week”

    “we can’t have Pk walking into the room thinking he’s the KING with a 5 or 6 million dollar contract”.

    that matches nicely with bergevin’s low offer.

    get Subban to crawl back into the room and insult him.

    • HardHabits says:

      Puh-lease. Because 3 million or whatever is chump change. Repeat after me. Restricted. Free. Agent. Not. Arbitration. Eligible.

      • ed lopaz says:

        its 2.3 and 2.5.

        and yesterday you posted that he should be happy at 4.25 per season, did you not??

        so how does your 4.25 per season look today??

        repeat after me.

        Bergevin thinks your 4.25 is not even in the ball park.

        edit: 2.2 and 2.9 are the numbers

        • HardHabits says:

          If Bergevin offered 2.3 and 2.5 that is a low ball offer and I don’t support it. Even I think Subban is worth more than that. I think 3.5 is reasonable. I’d be willing to go to 3.75 in year 1 and 4.25 in year 2. Where are the reports that MB offered that? That is speculation. Show me the link or the proof that it is 2.5M. Nobody knows what the Habs offered or what Subban is asking for.

          • HabFab says:

            Renaud Lavoie ‏- Canadiens offer to PK Subban, 2.2 million first year, 2.9 for next season.

            Dreger has the same info.

          • NCRhabsfan says:

            This is silly because it is only partially related to “worth”. RFA = very little leverage. This is about MB finding the minimum PK will accept to play for. PK’s big payday, when he will get more than he is worth, will occur when the Habs decide to sign him long term or he becomes a UFA, whichever comes first. Until then, it’s just about not insulting him. Comparing his contract to Markov’s, as some have done, is comparing apples to oranges. Markov has paid his dues, taken the smaller contracts early in his career and is now overpaid, like all other good to great players with as much time in as him.

            PK, you’re a puppy. You have not yet accomplished anything of particular note. Take your several millions, shut the hell and get back on the gravy train. Your huge deal is only a year or two away.

  31. Old Bald Bird says:


    Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs
    #Habs @PKSubban1 wants what he believes he’s worth, preferably BUT NOT NECESSARILY tied to long-term contract

    Eyes on the Prize ‏@HabsEOTP
    So Cole and Desharnais have been shit to start the year, but Therrien replaces Pacioretty with Eller in practice… Um..

    • ed lopaz says:

      why would PK even want a long term deal with this Habs management?

      I wouldn’t.

    • Captain aHab says:

      So the court of public opinion has now been firmly established as the arbitrator in this case. Wonder if we can get paid for this work?

      Me skull and crossbones arn’t the only thing I plan on raisin’ tonight.

    • twilighthours says:

      Desharnais been (marginally) the best of the three. Patches certainly hasn’t been better than either of those guys.

      But I’m guessing EOTP is having a hard time giving Therrien much credit anyway.

      • HardHabits says:

        EOTP make me laugh. Those guys got their heads so far up their stats they can’t see the light of day.

        • Old Bald Bird says:

          To be fair, EOTP has played this issue fairly unbiasedly. They also were the best at keeping us informed about the Dogs and others during the lockout. A lot of us think that AB went a little overboard when here, but I think he’s doing a good job over there.

          • HardHabits says:

            Yes because there he can post what he wants and delete anybody who disagrees with him. He still uses his “straw-man” rebuttal at every turn even though his own articles are the finest examples of logical fallacies on the Internet. Last I checked, on one of his articles there were 150 comments and over 50 of them were his. He likes to push his arguments, not debate ideas. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him admit he was wrong.

            EOTP is still a decent blog for Habs fans however in my opinion they are extremely biased, guilty of group think and too closed knit to actually come up with anything challenging. It’s more like ideas by proxy and dissent is discouraged.

          • Old Bald Bird says:

            It is true that AB never gives up on an argument. He’s willing to die on every hill.

          • HabFab says:

            Are you implying he is another JD? 😉

    • J_P says:

      I think MT should replace desharnais with Galchenyuk and see what happens. Cole/Galchenyuk/Pacioretty…sounds dirty to me.

  32. lavie says:

    Now looking back to MT’s comment “I want to help him become a better person”, that says it all. 😉

  33. rhino514 says:

    Hey it just dawned on me, didn´t the team go undefeated two seasons ago when JM benched subban for 5 games?

    • twilighthours says:

      I try to forget the black hole that was last season (that’s part of the Tank recovery plan), so my only recollection was him getting benched after the Chicago (Winnipeg?) game only to have the Habs play even worse and get totally embarrassed.

      • JF says:

        Two seasons ago, Subban was benched for three games. I think the team did OK those games ( I definitely remember they beat the Sharks, with Yannick Weber playing his first game that season). Last season, shortly after JM was fired, both Subban and Eller were benched against Winnipeg after the team had lost 5-2 to Chicago. You’re right, they were embarrassed 4-0.

  34. Adidess says:

    If true, this means a reasonable offer sheet, at $5 mil per for 6 years would more than double the Canadiens offer and allow a rival team to pry away a really good young defenceman, who’s also very marketable.

    With this info being public and appearing credible, I say offer sheets, here they come!

    • rhino514 says:

      Exactly. any offer sheet for Subban I think would be around 5 million per year, maybe more.
      I was looking at the compensation for above 5 million and it is FOUR first round picks. Even below 5 million it is still two first rounders, a second and a third.
      I think PK is a good player and growing, but I don´t think he is worth four first rounders…especially if there is any truth to the fact that he doesn´t blend in all too well in the locker room.
      So it would not make sense for MB to lowball subban with an offer, as it increases the likelihood of an offer sheet which would be for a substantially higher amount and which he´d then have to match.
      So this could be a conscious strategy on the part of MB; either he accepts a low offer; if the PK-Habs relationship goes awry, he is easily moveable…or another team presents an offer sheet and the team DOES NOT match.
      Maybe they are hoping for EITHER of these to happen, and if the team´s offer is indeed as low as reported, to me it signals that they are hoping even more for an offer sheet in which case they would not match.
      Thing is compensation is so high for offer sheets I don´t see it likely to happen. Flyers made an exception for Webber, but he is the league´s top defenseman and kind of an exception.

  35. Boomer says:

    Dave Stubbs‏@Dave_Stubbs

    No comment from agent Meehan re @PKSubban1 report today. Says comment “would be breaching confidence to all parties to this process” #Habs

    I don’t understand. Who’s leaking this information then? MB made it clear he wasn’t gonna negotiate within the media. Either Pk is talking or somebody’s lying here.

  36. twilighthours says:

    HabFab has summarized it nicely. If the offer is $5ish million for 2 years, that is an incredibly low-ball offer and it would be easy to imagine PK asking for a trade at some point.

    • helluva habs fan says:

      I don’t mind Habs trying to sign him for a song. It’s negotiating. They’ll have to raise they’re price to get a deal done. It’s nice to have a GM that doesn’t throw dollars at players right off the bat.

      I’ve moved beyond being annoyed at this situation. Now it’s just interesting to see how this will ultimately unfold. They should do their best to keep him because he’s a great player who never mails it in. I’m not going to get upset either way though. This hockey fan has read enough “dollars and cents” hockey stories to last a lifetime. My attention from here on out will be the product on the ice and the players wearing the CH. Let the men in charge stress over the other shit.

  37. jols101 says:

    Hilarious how Subban’s Cheer Leading section scream at the top of their lungs that there is no proof that PK is disliked by his teammates and is a problem in the dressing room even after multiple Hockey Insiders have eluded to this being the case. Yet as soon as one reporter prints some numbers that make Bergevin look like the bad guy, well that must be the truth, after all PK’s sh*t doesn’t stink.

    • twilighthours says:

      The difference is that we’ve got many credible reports indicating the specific contract offers and demands, yet no credible reporter has ever – to my knowledge – said anything specific about PK’s status in the room.

    • ed lopaz says:

      jols, glad you at least agree that if the report is correct, Bergevin’s offer makes him look bad.

      seems like you’re moving in the right direction.

      • jols101 says:

        I believe short term bridge contract 3-4 million per year. Long term 6 or 7 years, 5 million per year is fair for Subban. My point Ed, if you dismiss all the other crap you hear about Subban, it is a little hypocritical to believe the stuff that makes him look good and Bergevin look bad.

        Also could have replied to Twilight with this post.

        • twilighthours says:

          I just need a credible report that describes some of this other crap in detail. Please post one if you have one.

          • jols101 says:

            And there you go, put the pom poms down.

          • twilighthours says:

            It’s easy to accuse me of being a fan (for which I make no apologies). It’s much harder to provide credible evidence of how pk is bad in the room (feel free to use other hockey cliché of your choice)

  38. J_P says:

    Honestly, if Dreger is right, and Bergevin is being firm on 2 years and $5M total ($2.5M per season), than I agree with PK on holding out. There’s no question that is a serious lowball offer. Markov is our 1A defenseman, and he makes $5.75M per season. PK would be our 1B defenseman who led our team in ice time last year, so $5M per season for two years is not ridiculous. I agree that Subban is a bit risky to give a long-term deal to at this point, but pay the man what he is worth at least if you only want to give him a short-term deal. At least like $4M-4.5M per season. I honestly thought that PK was looking for ridiculous money.

    If a Rival organization signed PK to a 2-year offer sheet worth $10 million today, you’re telling me that Bergevin wouldn’t match it?

  39. Captain aHab says:

    That does seem on the low side but everyone here needs to understand that we have no idea – NONE – of how the guy is as a teammate. He might be a locker room cancer for all we know. Do you really think Bergevin would be actively looking to get rid of a guy whose a great teammate with tons of potential? I kinda doubt it myself.

    At this stage, my guess is that Bergevin wants to sign him to a cheap 2 year contract, then have PK perform to show the Habs just how wrong they were and then shortly after trade him while his value is high and his short term cost is low.

    Either that, or as others have stated, that is Bergevin’s original offer and he would be willing to come up but Subban refuses to come down.

    Or, yes, maybe Subban wants to come to the middle and Bergevin refuses to budge. That would be somewhat odd to me on a 2 year contract.

    Me skull and crossbones arn’t the only thing I plan on raisin’ tonight.

  40. Old Bald Bird says:

    Wow! If the Twitter chatter is correct, they are really low-balling PK IMO. No wonder HNIC was calling the offer insulting last week. I always did doubty that he wanted Doughty money, which Stubbs also made quite clear last week. But I think we should continue to go about vilifying PK anyway since that is what we do best around here.

  41. ed lopaz says:

    after this tweet from Lavoie, if I’m a GM that needs a d-man to play in my top 2, or at worst my #3 or 4, I would be trying for an offer sheet THIS WEEKEND!!.

    6 years and 30 million would be my offer.

    If I was Subban, I would sign the offer sheet in a heartbeat.

    if I was Bergevin, I would match the offer sheet.

    that way Bergevin gets to blame the other team’s offer sheet for caving.

    (kind of like Tom’s post from yesterday, but a little better!!)

  42. commandant says:

    In happier news… and an uplifting story… we have Josh Harding today.

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

  43. Danno says:



    “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

  44. Habsville says:

    This chatter on PK is entertaining. Only the two side discussing the deal know the facts. Stock falling, trading him, is all to keep us here to chatter. PK will sign and will be a plus to the team. Who would we rather have a PK or Kaberlay

  45. mjames says:

    It is being implied in some press that after two wins the Canadiens can do fine without PK. How anyone can imply that after three games is beyond me. I guess if we lose the next two games PK’s stock will rise. The Canadiens/PK negotiations is a microcosm of the recent NHL/NHLPA negotiations. Both sides are at fault. If the Canadiens want an bridge contract then offer PK two years but at say 3.5 – 4.0 mm. If PK is so confident of his ability he should go out there and prove he is worth 5MM for 5 years. Someone needs to remind PK that for all the contributions he made last year it was still for a last place team. At the same tome someone should remind the Canadiens that despite these two wins they are not a first place let alone a playoff team.


    • Andy and the habs says:

      The media didn’t say they can do fine without Subban. What I understood is that at a point in time some things have more value under given circumstances. Imagine if the Canadiens were 0-3 beginning of the season. The pressure on MB would be so huge the negotiations would be in favor of Subban camp.

  46. Propwash says:

    If the figures being thrown around have some merit, I wonder if this could come down to P.K saying “Fine, trade me.” I hope that isn’t the case.


    • HabFab says:

      After the comment that PK has the weekend to think over his options after meeting Bergevin on Friday leaves me with one possible option here.
      Bergevin is not prepared to move so that leaves PK with 3 options;
      – continue sitting out indefinitely
      – accept the Habs offer
      – ask for a trade

      IMO there are only two options for him, the second and third ones.

  47. lavie says:

    Reading Lavoie’s “offer sheet”, I have a feeling that Molson-MG-MT have a big question mark on Subban. Not optimistic at all.

  48. Boomer says:

    If it comes down to a trade, It has to involve another young dman. When Markov retires the closest thing to him will be Beaulieu. Or there’s always the option of trading up at the draft if a stud Dman is still on the board. That’s assuming we continue to play well and draft low.

  49. WindsorHab-10 says:

    I like it when people start throwing numbers around like I will sign him for this much but not that & so on. At the end of the day, the Habs are much better off with Subban in their lineup, I don’t care who they get for him. My wish is SIGN PK ASAP.

  50. Danno says:

    Peanuts…….Happy Medium…..Crazy Money


    The deal will be done and it will go straight down the middle.

    The Great Kreskin


    “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

  51. New says:

    You guys are funny.

  52. HabFab says:

    So in review;
    – Mackenize stated earlier they were $2.5-3 ML per year apart
    – Lavoie now states that the Habs offer is $5.2 ML over 2 years
    – PK must then be looking for $5-5.5 ML per year
    – confirms the comment that they are not even close
    – and that is without term with the Habs offering 2 years and PK looking for a long term 5+ years deal
    – not too much to be optimist about here

    • rhino514 says:

      if it´d tru about the 5.2 million that is a real lowball offer. That would have to make people, myself included, reassess their anti-subban bias.

    • Bripro says:

      I’m not sure I agree with you Frank.
      If the team keeps going and shows that PK is not as indispensable as previously thought (and panick-posted by some here), then upwards of 20 teams, IMO, will come dealing. The more come knocking, the more we might be on the benefitting-end of a lopsided deal.
      Take a look at the Flyers, who’ve lst yet another D this week. If they continue on their 0-for pace, the offers will be attractive.
      I’d love to see him back on the blue line, but there really is no rush, at least not at the moment.

  53. FunkyCrabChairNF says:

    Read less than a third of that G&M piece… got to the part that implied Tyler Myers was way out of Subban’s league. I live in Niagara Falls, NY, 20 mins from Buffalo and I am subjected to Sabres coverage night and day. The Canadian hockey world will have a wake-up call when they come to see that Myers will not be on their 2014 Olympic team, because he just “ain’t go it.”

    He plays weak and his D-awareness is inconsistent and often bad. He got out muscled by Skinner last night who more than half a foot shorter than he. He’s the whipping boy here right now, and even the GM admitted he showed up out of shape.

    I would give P.K. the contract that Myers has before I would ever trade for P.K. for him. All that just to say that sports journalism is almost always pretty dimwitted, and I sincerely wonder if half of these writers ever watch games that include the players they talk about.

    • Andy and the habs says:

      Reading your post I thought you were going to say I hope Canadiens don’t make the same mistake and have Subban sign a bridge contract.

      • FunkyCrabChairNF says:

        Well I am in favor of the bridge contract being the result, but I was just carrying on with the Globe’s hypothetical. IF, and only if, they were, in fantasy land, to trade Subban for Myers, I would think to myself that I’d they had just given Subban the same contract.

        In the real world I would like to see 2 years, $8.5 mil

    • Strummer says:

      You’ve just proved Bergevin’s point.

      It’s risky to sign a 23 year old to a long term contract unless the talent is exceptional. i.e. Crosby, Malkin, Ovie, maybe Doughty.

      I’m sure the Sabres would take a do-over on this one.
      EDIT: Especially if Myers lays an egg.
      “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

      • FunkyCrabChairNF says:

        See my response to Andy above. I think I misrepresented my position. I am 100% in favor of Bergevin NOT making a Myers-esque mistake. Just point out that for equal dollars, I’d rather have Subban.

        • Strummer says:

          I didn’t take it that you supported Subban!
          i just pointed out that your example of Myers proves MB’s argument.

          “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

      • Boomer says:

        yup the problem is Pk seems to believe he’s in that class

    • neumann103 says:

      I am in Toronto and the last couple of years have attended all of the Habs games in Buffalo. I think Tyler Myers is a pretty good hockey player (and was the biggest factor in a come from behind OT victory last year) but he is not as good as Subban and astonishingly overpaid.

      “Et le but!”

  54. Fansincebirth says:

    I’m not saying that somehow the media is finding out what the contract offers but what I do find funny is that Montreal has always been an organization that keeps its cards very close and divulges nothing until a deal is done.

    I want to see Subban get signed by us but not for more than what he’s worth and certainly not for what he & his agent think he’s worth. He’s not a star but a potential star. He’s very good…very very good and yes, it was kind of thrust on him and he responded but he’s not elite…not yet. Will he be? Probably but weirder things have happened to young rising stars who were supposed to be ‘all that’.

    • Hali_Hab says:

      It was obviously leaked by his agent to sway public perception. And in my opnion it is a low offer.

    • Mustang says:

      I have been saying all throughout this negotiation that I want to see P.K. signed, but not at any price.

      • commandant says:

        Not at any price? Sure I agree with that.

        But he is worth far more than the latest reported offer.

        Go Habs Go!
        Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

        • Mustang says:

          While I have absolutely no inside information as to what is being offered and what is being demanded, from a negotiating stance it is necessary for management to maintain their low-ball position IF the other side is unwilling to move from their unrealistic stance. One side must give a bit before the other side can also be expected to give something. If neither side is willing to budge, you have a stalemate and this appears to be the case right now.

    • tophab says:

      pk was our best player the last 2 years sign him or fire bergevin.

  55. mdp2011 says:

    If the numbers are accurate, and they must be since it was leaked by Meehan to Dreager and Lavoie, then this could get uglier and uglier. This makes absolutely no sense, while I agree he’s not yet worth Doughty money, he’s certainly worth more than what is being offered by the Habs. I am really questioning Habs strategy here.

    • BJ says:

      Leaked by Meehan???? I doubt it.

    • ont fan says:

      To get Doughty money this team would have to be in a position to vie for the Cup. They aren’t. So, to trade him we wouldn’t get a defenseman back. Who could we really trade with, to get the same value with a forward. I really can’t see a trade in the near future. Maybe after he is signed he gets traded if the dollars are outrages.

  56. JF says:

    I think the question for Subban to decide this weekend is how long he is willing to sit out. Yesterday was the first time the two sides met since training camp began. If there is no progress this time, another couple of weeks will likely go by with nothing happening. Is Subban willing to hold out for perhaps a third of this shortened season, especially with it looking increasingly likely that Bergevin is not going to meet his demands? At some point he is going to have to take what the Canadiens are offering or ask to be traded.

    And supposing he accepts, whether now or in a few weeks, what impact will this situation have on his future with the Canadiens? Will he want to stay?

    Didn’t Kyle Turris sit out the beginning of last season before reaching an agreement with the Coyotes? He was traded mid-season….

  57. BJ says:

    I really doubt those numbers. I think 3.75 max per year for 2 years. Otherwise PK your jersey is on backwards. The logo belongs in the front and the name on the back not the other way around.

    • Loonie says:

      Okay to believe Subban wants too much but not to believe Bergevin’s offering too little.


    • ed lopaz says:


      3.75 is about 50% higher then bergevin’s offer, but yet the poster launches insults at Subban

      • BJ says:

        Ed how do we validate the numbers? If it is really that low than I would agree with PK’s stance. Bergevin would need to up that to around 3.25-3.75.

        • ed lopaz says:

          Renaud Lavoie has an inside track to Antichambre.

          Subban’s contract is being negotiated there.

          • BJ says:

            Lavoie is a good journalist and he does have excellent contacts. I cannot believe that l’antichambre has any input into negotiations. 911 was an inside job but I can’t see Bergevin conspiring with l’antichambre to negotiate.

          • HabFab says:

            And the Habs…
            As for AC, I refuse to watch or even listen to such drivel. At least Cherry is sincere in his bigotry!

          • ed lopaz says:

            Michel Therrien is literally one of the Antichambre group, he is just passing the next 3 or 4 years as the Habs coach, in between his real full time, long term job, which will be as a panelist on the show.

            when I say that Antichambre is running the team, I mean that the members of Antichambre know what Therrien’s position is on each of the key players.

            If Therrien wants to bench Eller, Therrien’s rationale is supported on Antichambre.

            If Therrien doesn’t want Subban around at 5 million per season, Therrien’s position is supported on Antichambre.

            And through Antichambre, Therrien and the Habs are now able to manipulate quite a few hockey fans in this town.

  58. Propwash says:

    Twitter definitely woke up with this latest rumor…


  59. FunkyCrabChairNF says:

    Before we get all up and down about Bergevin’s offer, which I know seems a little low, we need to wait and see what the ‘Meehan camp’ has put on the table. Perhaps they’re looking for 6 and they haven’t budged either. In that case, they are just as responsible, or even fully responsible if they haven’t submitted a reasonable offer themselves

    I think its reasonable that this be settled right in the middle of those two figures at 4.25 mil for each of the next two years.

    And I love P.K. but getting along with his teammates COULD be an issue that the G.M. would know more about than us, and as much as he became a shutdown D-man last year, he was still prone to ugly errors. His shooting from the point was also pretty awful.

    I don’t need to be reminded of his virtues, I do know them. I am just saying that the above issues are evidence enough that he should NOT be signed for more than two years, and I think just over $4 mil per is a good sweet spot. That is the target, and if MeeBan is stuck up at 6, then Bergevin does need to hold his ground til they show some movement. Good comparison to Karlsson below by HabFan17.

    ALSO NOTE that every salary going forward will be lower than it historically has been because of the cap.

    • Loonie says:

      Colby Armstrong has been called out by teammates and opponents in the past but they signed him following a buyout.

      • CharlieHodgeFan says:

        Is that a point?

        How much did they sign him for?

        • Loonie says:

          It’s a point that they obviously aren’t afraid of signing players who’ve had troubles with teammates.

          And it’s a relevant one.

          • Mattyleg says:

            You’re assuming that PK has trouble with his teammates?

            —Hope Springs Eternal—

          • Strummer says:

            I year at $1 million is low risk.

            “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

      • FunkyCrabChairNF says:

        I hear that, but they aren’t refusing to sign Subban. Its just money matters, but that does play a factor. Armstrong get paid peanuts because he sucks personally and as a player. While we are on that, I sincerely hope he is scratched for Eller next game.

    • ed lopaz says:

      ” I think its reasonable that this be settled right in the middle of those two figures at 4.25 mil for each of the next two years.”

      If you think that, our GM would not even be meeting with you today.

      • FunkyCrabChairNF says:

        As I said, I don’t think its fair to judge where Bergevin is coming from if we don’t know where Subban is coming from. If they are at 5 or above and not budging then they are equally ridiculous.

  60. piper says:

    I see by the poll there are a lot of dreamers out there. They’ll be lucky to sneak into the playoffs with PK.

    • New says:

      Yeah, but the poll is “without PK” which apparently to many people enhances the teams chances — or it could be that Habs fans think 2 wins and 1 loss means a Cup while 1-2 means doom. That’s why they made the playoffs best of seven. To drive Habs fans crazy.

  61. Harditya says:

    24 CH looks very interesting. Check out the previews on

  62. JayK-47 says:

    A day without drama here is like a day without sunshine.

    That said, if MB is lowballing PK, the public mood is gonna get ugly quick.

  63. derfab says:

    Nonsense. Besides the Orwellian sheepishness and rancour of the crowd who despise anything beautiful that doesn`t automatically reciprocate with humble flattery and the stupid golly-gee I do it for y`all speech, the only reason his stock could fall is through collusion. Subban is the best unsigned player in the world. If he is not getting serious offers it is because the Habs are using all their leverage to get other clubs to back off. The thing is, any weakness or failure of the team will bring it all back to questions about the motives for not paying him what he is worth relative to the market. Very dumb risk.

  64. ed lopaz says:

    even the PK doubters on this site had him at at least 3 million.

    many PK doubters said 4 million per for 2 years was fair.

    Bergevin does not want to build the team around Subban.

    that’s very clear now.

    • Loonie says:

      No Renaud Lavoie is just spreading gossip. With exact figures for each of the next two years and saying that it’s the exact same offer that was made to Subban last May.


  65. Loonie says:

    Trade PK, trade Eller, trade Pacioretty, trade Price.

    Draft high, develop, rinse, repeat.

  66. adamkennelly says:

    if those numbers are accurate – I side with PK. Ridiculously low offer..he deserves 2 years at 4.5 average – he is worth that.

    • Strummer says:

      That’s about the same money Price signed for on his bridge contract.
      How’d that work out?

      Is PK more valuable than Price?

      “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

      • Loonie says:

        Price was coming off of a season where he had been relegated to backup duty.

        Subban…..not so much.

        • Strummer says:

          Price knew he was the heir apparent.
          The guy he was backing up took the team to the final four and still they chose Price over him.
          He signed his bridge and was rewarded eventually.
          Why can’t Subban do the same?

          “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

          • Loonie says:

            Knowing what he was capable of is one thing. He was benched for Halak.

            Subban wasn’t put on the bench in favour of Freddy St. Denis.

          • Strummer says:

            The fact Price was benched is irrelevant.
            Subban was banished to the pressbox last year.

            Price played the RFA game and prevailed.

            “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

      • commandant says:

        Subban in 2011-2012 was a MUCH better player than Price was in 2009-2010. Not even close.

        Why should he take the same money as a goalie who lost his starting job?

        Hell why should he take less than guys he is better than, like Cam Fowler, John Carlson, Del Zotto, etc…

        Go Habs Go!
        Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

  67. icky pop says:

    I’ve wanted to see subban traded for a long time now. He definitely has potential, and is worth a lot of money. The jerseys he sells could probably end up rivalling the likes of Crosby. But with all the fights he was in practice with teammates last year, and you can find a fight he had with a teammate in Hamilton on YouTube, its no doubt that he is a problem in the locker room. He thinks very highly of himself, which could be a good thing, if it wasn’t above the team. He’s the first player I have ever heard talking about wanting to be in the hall of fame. Sure, you can look at it as drive, but combined with so many other comments he’s made, I see him being the next Paul coffee. Great dman that no team wants to keep as a permanent fixture. Too much attitude. The minute I heard that we signed prust, I was hoping to hear of subban getting in HIS face in practice. Pleks and davey I remember for sure he had scrums with. Maybe it’s just his competitive nature, but when you get under your teammates skin, its a problem. He needs to learn to be humble. Maybe markov showing that he can get the job done until tinordi and beallieau (probably spelled wrong) are ready for the big time. I see subban looking at what doughty did last year, and deserves the same. There are many other dmen I’d rather have, that will stick up for themselves, and not have to have his teammates jump in to defend his dirty playing. Look to the elbow on krejci, and turtling on ference, holding onto his leg and being dragged around on the ice. That was embarrassing. He will fight, as long as the guy isn’t bigger than him. Too bad that no team will pay his worth in terms of trade return, due to his holding out at the moment. Get him signed shirt term, and trade him. We can get a good forward for him.

    • FunkyCrabChairNF says:

      Countdown to when you are called a racist…

    • commandant says:

      – Plekanec had as many fights in practice as PK did last season.

      – Markov is 34 years old and won’t be around forever, and there is little to no proof to believe Beaulieu or Tinordi will be as good or better than Subban. Yes they are good prospects, but Subban is special.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

      • Stanley says:

        You’re right. I watched Beaulieu play throughout his junior career. Good skater, offensive talent, sees the ice pretty well; but his a huge liability defensively. His stock was overrated at the junior level because he played on one of the best teams to skate in the QMHL in recent years. He is no Subban, that’s for sure. Having said that, PK is no $6 million player!

        “Good things happen to those who hustle.”

  68. Ian Cobb says:

    Terrible morning news to report about PK.

    Do you remember my post a few days ago about PK headed to Montreal after borrowing Malcolm’s wheels.

    Well after Pk met with Bergevin yesterday, he headed back the 401 to Toronto for the weekend, to discuss his future Hab plans with his family.
    He went through Belleville at about 2 in the afternoon and was making good time. Before he got to Oshawa that tire he was having trouble with days earlier, gave out, and he caused a 60 car pile up as it had started to snow. He was uninjured, but Malolm’s 10 speed was totaled.
    He had better sign a contract soon so he can replace his brothers bike!

  69. Mavid says:

    Maybe Subban is in the media more because they seek him out, he is always big news in the hockey world..looks to me like he is only answering questions that are being asked of him..and then they print it. I really like Karlsson and he deserves everything he gets but I don’t think that he is big news..they print what people want to read and what they will buy..everyone wants to know about PK..I don’t think he goes looking for it..

    • HabFab says:

      No, PK definitely wants to be in the center of everyone’s view. Just part of the charm that is PK and can irritate others. But then none of them have his charisma or 200,000+ twitter followers.
      If you have ever seen home movies from the Subban’s, even as a little kid PK had to be the center of attention.

      • FunkyCrabChairNF says:

        Kardashians have waaaay more followers for the same reason. Paul Bissonnette has twice that many. What does that have to do with him being annoying? I follow him on twitter AND I find him annoying.

        • HabFab says:

          Re read, two different sentences and two different thoughts connecting in the same paragraph.

          PS. My major character fault is the a-hole thing 🙂

          • FunkyCrabChairNF says:

            I see now. Don’t make me go English teacher on here and tell you about paragraph structure on content! jjjjkkkk

  70. HabFab says:

    RenLavoieRDS – No progress in talks for PK Subban contract. Offer from MTL is still the same since May: 2,3 million dollars this season and 2,9 in 2013-14.

    Giving Renauds rep, this is pretty much gossip. Sheds a different light on the subject doesn’t it?

    • Bob_Sacamano says:

      That´s ridiculous. Why not offer P.K. at least Kaberle´s money for two years and trade the latter?

      • Strummer says:

        What’s Kaberle’s money got to do with with it?

        “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

        • Bob_Sacamano says:

          Pretty obvious, no? I think that 8.5 M for two years could be something that both sides should be able to live with. Replacing Kaberle with Subban for the same money would improve the team while not hurting it cap-wise.

          • Strummer says:

            Kaberle was signed by Jim Rutherford NOT Marc Bergevin.

            “Trade the latter” (Kaberle) where?

            “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

      • wild flower says:

        Because PK has no leverage – he takes what he gets or he doesn’t play. That is what the players union agreed to.

        • Strummer says:

          People on this site forget that is how the system was negotiated.
          PK will strike it rich when he’s a UFA.

          “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

  71. Loonie says:

    Per Renaud Lavoie on twitter:

    “Offer is the same as it’s been since May. 2.3 million 2013 and 2.9 million in 2014”.

    So who’s the problem here again?

    • HabFab says:

      Now that is a good Left Right combo 😉

    • Propwash says:

      If this is true, not a bad hike after his entry level contract.
      I can understand both ends of the issue, PK wants long term stability, but the team doesn’t want to break the bank on the guy, I hope they find a happy medium and get this B.S over with and move forward.


      • Loonie says:

        Or if you’re Subban. Just over half of Kaberle’s salary.

        • Propwash says:

          Except Kaberle’s contract was negotiated under different circumstances and by different organizations.


          • Loonie says:

            Okay fair enough. And after having said that do you believe that $2.6 million annually is fair?

            I certainly hope not.

          • Propwash says:

            I was figuring maybe into the 4-5 mil range would have been a safe bet.
            But, this is why I don’t negotiate hockey player contracts and that I run a large format inkjet printer for a living…


          • Loonie says:

            Haha very nice. I think you’re selling yourself short though. Looking at it from both sides, I think between four and five million annually is a nice compromise that pays the player what he’s worth without breaking the bank or souring him on the organization long term.

          • Propwash says:

            Thanks Loonie!

            To me, Beregevin has quite a shuffle ahead of him contractwise in a year or two, and that he has to gather his cards at the right cost to keep the team at a competitive level. I like PK as a player and would rather see him in the bleu blanc rouge, but I agree with putting the team ahead of the individual. I just hope Bergy makes the right decisions moving forward, and hopefully leading the Habs to the next cup.


    • 44har48 says:

      I don’t care who Renaud whoever is, I don’t believe it for a second that he knows, or anyone knows what the offer is.

  72. Habfan17 says:

    I like Subban but his last comments about how much he has accomplished and all the I’s and Me’s are changing my opinion of the young man. He has proven he has a long way to mature and needs a reality check. Eric Karlsson won the Norris trophy last season and he is making $5,5 million this season, negotiated after he won the trophy. The last season is at $7 million, the cap hit is $6.5 million. Now there is a player who accomplished something. Karlsson had 78 points in 81 games and was plus 16 on a team that wasn’t supposed to do well. Subban had 36 points and was plus 9 in 81 games. He is a year older than Karlsson and you didn’t see Karlsson in the media. He kept a low profile, team first approach, showing true professionalism. He and his agent negotiated a fair deal for him and for the team to be able to build a strong team around him. To add to this, the deal was negotiated under the old CBA.

    So far Subban has proven to be immature and unprofessional, taking to the media to attempt to build fan pressure on Bergavin. At the very least, having to voice his opinion of his worth shows a lack of maturity. It is his agents responsibility to demonstrate his value to Bergevin, out of the media. Where Subban should show his value is on the ice, with his play, not his words. When he gets this, he will have matured and taken the next step in his professional development. Take a 2 year $3.5 million/season deal and let your play do the talking. Things will work themselves out if you do.


    • ed lopaz says:

      that was Bergevin’s pitch 3 months ago.

    • Stuck_in_To. says:

      Seems whenever a young man stands-up and pushes for a better contract in the NHL he is perceived as over-entitled and full of himself. Subban is right, whether or not you appreciate how he said it. He has done a lot in a short time and projects far better than he was drafted. The Habs job is to get him as cheap as possible and Subban’s right is to squeeze every penny out of them. The media microscope is irrelevant … and most fans will forgive him after his first hit or his first goal.

      • Habfan17 says:

        Your key words are projects, not arrived. Do you honestly think he compares to what Karlsson has accomplished at this point? Give your head a shake and speak with your brain not your emotions.


        • CharlieHodgeFan says:

          PK was a top 40 defenceman in the NHL last year, and is the number two defenceman on this team this year. In the context of the NHL, he is worth 3 million a year.

          His accomplishments are few – poor stats but good defence as a fill-in for the real quarterback. On his talents, he led a god-awful power play last year. At 23, who wouldn’t?

          He’s a good entertainer but has to improve his hockey sense. Two years should show what he is as a player. I don’t care if he shows off like a Russian or annoys his team mates. He is a second tier defenceman with first tier potential who was thrust into a larger than life role by a badly run organization. His entertainment value saved the season for a lot of fans, but his inexperience and hubris probably helped the team to its amazing rank in the league. On a decently run club, he would have 15-20 minutes a game. We were not watching a decently run team last year.

        • Stuck_in_To. says:

          You are the one bent out of shape by the way PK is coming across in the media … that is emotional.

          I did not compare him to anyone, just think he has right to not only fight for a better contract but also justify himself in a media that is reporting on the issue. That’s not emotional.

      • Habfan17 says:

        If Bergevin had offered Subban 1 or 2 million a year, I could see his point, but at 3 to 4 million for 2 years, that is fair for what he has accomplished and to cover some of that “potential”


      • Habfan17 says:

        Also, Subban should be letting his agent demonstrate his accomplishments and value to Bergevin behind closed door, not Subban trying to convince fans through the media what he is worth. This also shows a lack of professionaism and maturity. When he is asked, he should say the same thing as Bergevin, I want to be a Canadian and I will leave the rest to my agent and bergevin to work out. I don’t negotiate in the media. point final!


    • Just a Habs Fan says:

      Habfan 17 :::::::::::::::: Too sensible to be taken seriously on here. Good post.

  73. Cal says:

    PK blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah PK blah blah.
    Enough already. He isn’t the best Dman on the team any more. Markov is back and showing why he is elite.
    Habs are playing well as a team the last two games with some obvious glaring errors, but Price has been solid keeping the score close every game.
    People assuming Eller is gone is amusing, too. I don’t think this management team is about ridding themselves of young players.
    Wacky 6PM start tomorrow. Can’t wait.

    • Loonie says:

      They’re scratching Eller and Subban remains unsigned. I’d like to believe your idea that they aren’t about ridding themselves of young players.

      I think it’s much more likely that they’d like to keep their young players and rid themselves of the young players they inherited.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Morning Cal. I don’t think the management team is about ridding themselves of young players either. I can’t help but think that they are surprised that PK didn’t readily accept the bridge offer and now it’s a wait the guy out game. It just sucks because we lost half the friggin season because of the business side of the game and now we have to endure this,


    • showey47 says:

      That may be true about markov right now but what about in a year and a half from now (or less) when there is a decent chance he is no longer a hab? Or if he is a hab it will be as a lesser role. Then what? Truth is we need him signed or somebody of similar potential in a trade to anchor our defence for the next 10 years.

    • Propwash says:

      Would you rather not have PK back, and supplement Markov, maybe reduce some of his TOI and save him for a potential playoff run?


      • Cal says:

        Of course I would. The Habs are better with him. Folks around here rate PK too highly. Right now he is a good Dman. Markov is displaying what a great Dman looks like.

    • The Cat says:

      Wins are wins but lets not kid ourselves, anyone whos watched so far this year has to conclude that the habs have come nowhere near of being tested. But like I said before, they can make the playoffs, many teams suck, the caliber aint what it used to be.

      [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

  74. Chris says:

    You guys are taking this headline entirely the wrong way.

    The issue was that Subban invested all his entry-level deal in Apple stocks. The only thing in this world that markets itself better than P.K. Subban is Apple Inc.. Subban can appreciate a company like that.

    Apple will release the new iBrick soon enough, and people will show up in droves. Then this whole unfortunate blip on his economic portfolio will be nothing but a bad memory.

  75. 24 Cups says:

    Eller’s stock is falling with each Habs win.

    This is a situation that concerns me. Eller may have laid an egg in the season opener but so did most of the other Habs. The only exceptions that I remember were Price and Emelin. Now it appears that Eller has become persona non grata in Montreal.

    His game may still be unrefined but he is a 1st round pick who has decent size and skill. The Halak trade aside, I was always under the impression that this guy was going to be a piece of the Cup puzzle moving forward. Now he sits while lesser lights get ice time. What the hell?

    Eller can’t be the odd man out if Galchenyuk stays for the entire season and is slotted in at centre. It’s time for Therrien to reshuffle the deck of cards. I guess we’ll know more after the game against Winnipeg.

    • Chris says:

      I honestly think that Eller is pretty much gone. I’m wondering if they are waiting on Subban signing or not signing before pulling the trigger, because Weber would be the natural second piece in the package but they probably don’t want to deal him until they know for sure if Subban is coming back.

      Eller and Weber can net you something in return. I don’t know how much, but it is certainly a much more attractive package than either guy represents on his own.

      • New says:

        I don’t think they want to move either Weber or Eller. Both can play at the NHL level. Players will get hurt and it is good to have people who can step in. At the end of the season they might move anybody. You always have players pushing to get in. Ice is money.

    • Loonie says:

      I want to know what Eller’s thinking. And I say that because lesser men would have given up on this organization after Tuesday night’s scratch.

    • 44har48 says:

      I think after New Jersey shuts the Habs out on Sunday, we will see Eller back in. But I’m with you, this situation concerns me more than Subban.

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