Subban mum on contract talks during appearance at Canadian Open

P.K. Subban

P.K. Subban declined to talk about his contract negotiations with the Canadiens during an appearance Saturday at the RBC Canadian Open.

The Canadiens defenceman is coming off a two-year $5.75 million contract and filed for salary arbitration earlier this month. The hearing is scheduled for next Friday.

“Today is not about hockey,” said Subban, who is sponsored by RBC as are several golfers in the field at the Canadian Open. He posed for pictures with fans Saturday afternoon and made an appearance at a chipping clinic. He also received a lesson from CBS Sports golf reporter Peter Kostis in the morning.

“I’ll answer one question about the negotiation,” Subban told a media scrum at Royal Montreal Golf Club.“It’s been kept pretty quiet the whole time and it’s going to remain that way until a deal is done.”

“As of right now today I’m sitting here and trying to just enjoy the day. Just not thinking about anything,” he said.

Forward Lars Eller had also filed for salary arbitration, but reached a deal on a four-year $14 million contract with the Canadiens on Thursday—a day before his scheduled hearing.

“I’m happy for him. He deserves it,” Subban said.

“He’s played some good hockey. He’s a big part of our team.”

Asked how his summer training was going, Subban said: “Awesome.”

“This is probably the shortest summer I’ve ever had you know in terms of how deep we went into the playoffs. It’s been a short summer, but by the same token that’s a good thing because you know that the season is close to starting. I think it’s 74 days until puck drop until the regular season. Just trying to enjoy a little bit of my summer, but the hard training has already started and it will probably continue for the next little while.”

Subban wants ‘to be a lifer’ with Habs, NHL.com

Prospect Bozon on comeback trail, Canadiens.com

Saku Koivu’s California home selling for $6.6 million, Stu on Sports blog

Bulldogs captain St. Pierre leaves Hamilton for KHL, Stu on Sports blog

 

768 Comments

  1. DipsyDoodler says:

    I had a very pertinent and insightful take on the Ray Bourque debate but H I/O chose for some reason to label it as s*pam. They really ought to upgrade the software.

    In any case, what’s Bjarn McGoo saying these days?

    —–
    Moving. Forward.

  2. Hstands4Hockey says:

    Call me crazy buy I don’t think Habs should give Subban more than 8 million.

    8 makes him the highest paid defenseman (avg cap hit) in the NHL. How is that not fair!? If he choose arbitration then so be it, you still have him under contract for 2 more years and go back to square one. His leverage won’t be any higher in 2 years.

    ——————————————————————–
    Rule #76: No Excuses, Play Like a Champion!
    @Hstands4Hockey

    • AliHaba says:

      In two years he would be a UFA so his leverage would be much, much higher.

      • Hstands4Hockey says:

        I am aware but not sure I buy that argument. Suter got $7.25 as a UFA – very limited teams will have that kind of Cap Room. A lot can change in 2 years, I find it hard to believe PKs value will be higher in terms of his status as an elite player – he would have to win a Stanley Cup/Conne Smythe and/or another Norris for that to happen.

        PK wants to stay in Montreal, he loves the limelight and has huge endorsement deals. Most of all he wants to win so he’s not going to some crap team that will overpay him.

        ——————————————————————–
        Rule #76: No Excuses, Play Like a Champion!
        @Hstands4Hockey

        • Loop_Garoo says:

          Weber makes $14 million or something this year, his cap hit is lower due to the last years of the contract length, and there is a very good chance he is not even playing by then. Comparison of the two contracts is not possible, as they will be under completely different rules, and circumstances. PK gets 8 Million min, I would guess slightly higher.

          • Hstands4Hockey says:

            Cap hit is everything. Crosby would be making 20 million otherwise. Rich teams don’t mind shelling out the cash so much as they do being restricted in their ability to retain and attract elite talent – cap system makes this a trade-off.

            ——————————————————————–
            Rule #76: No Excuses, Play Like a Champion!
            @Hstands4Hockey

        • AliHaba says:

          Is that the chance you want to take? Sure he loves playing in Montreal but without doubt there’s a GM somewhere who will flash dollars in the $12-15,000,000 range to have a player of PK’s charisma and style fill their building.
          The cap could possibly be $80,000,000 in 2016.

    • bwoar says:

      It’s that last part: his leverage WILL be higher in 2 years as an unrestricted free agent.

      8m is a lot of cash on 1 player, but I think he’s worth it. Should we really get into a situation where we don’t go to 8.5M to get a long deal done? It’s kinda pennywise and pound foolish.

    • Cal says:

      Okay. You’re crazy. ;)
      Still, PK will get his big money deal. The sooner the better.
      I don’t buy the cap hit argument because of Shea Weber’s contract. That aside, I think PK will get around $8.5mill avg per season.

    • Loop_Garoo says:

      I think there is no doubt he gets the highest cap hit in the NHL for a defenseman. Arguments about other contracts signed before this current CBA are irrelevant. Arbitration means habs choice one or two years, and either a more expensive contract next year, or be facing losing PK.

    • habstrinifan says:

      I agree with you but not for your reasons. I just think 8M is a great salary for team and player.

      “Protest Rogers blackout of Habs game…sign at:

      https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds.

  3. habstrinifan says:

    Good Morning everyone! Good Morning Un Canadien Errant.

    I read your posts concerning the team identity/makep last night and had to re-read it this morning. I found your second example a quite odd one. You are extolling the heroism of a ‘team’ bonded together through ups and downs and growth with the superiorly skilled ‘native sons’ coming to the fore and leading the charge to glory.

    And yet you used an example where people who ‘belonged’ were cast aside, carpetbaggers brought in and all to achieve respectability/victory in a ‘league’ where your ‘team you toiled with on the ice’ was not really your ‘team you toiled with in the workplace’ … which was the driving concept and should have been the defining factor for membership.

    Quite Odd… or am I missing something?

    Here is the exceprt from your post.

    “Daniel, our best player, was a big rangy centre, kind of a Bobby Smith type. He got fired, but by that time control of the team had been wrested from the Director of H.R., who insisted that everyone who wanted to play should play. The President of the hotel, a Québec boy made good, who’d listened attentively when we explained that the other teams would laugh at us, at our jerseys, and our hotel, now decreed that we should be competitive. The overmatched players bowed out gracefully, we got ourselves a few ringers, and they became Banquets Waiters who never worked a shift ever. And Daniel was retained as a ‘Banquet Waiter’, ”

    You were a team which kept their unbecoming undesirables hidden in the kitchen…while you cooked up a winning record … literally.

    A perfectly ACCEPTABLE trivial jocular ruse for a pick-up league but an imperfect reference for a discussion on the moral underpinnings of the concept of TEAM. Or am I missing something?

    “Protest Rogers blackout of Habs game…sign at:

    https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds.

    • AliHaba says:

      I thought that too but then I reminded myself that UCE also thinks that Henri Richard and Guy Lafleur shouldn’t have had their numbers retired so you have to take his comments with a large grain of salt.

      • habstrinifan says:

        Actually I do look forward to UCE’s views and respect and pause in the reading of them. I think them gravely written and considered. I hope that UCE intends that the detail and effort he inputs into his ‘serious’ posts be appreciated as serious matter for HIO readers to consider. And I treat them as such.

        Maybe he detests the scrutiny that accompanies it.

        “Protest Rogers blackout of Habs game…sign at:

        https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds.

        • AliHaba says:

          He certainly puts a lot of time and effort into his work. I respect him for that. His point of view on a lot of things…not so much. Actually I often find his writing so long-winded that I lose patience and skip over them. Perhaps by doing so I miss out on some logical points. He puts in all that effort so he does demand respect for that. Doesn’t mean I have to agree with what he has to say.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Hey trini, thanks for the thoughts, and I never mind discussing my posts, or having objections or counterpoints raised by other posters, that’s the essence of HIO, that’s what makes it good.

      The point you raised is a valid one, and it semi-dawned on me last night when I was typing, but I dismissed it. That two of you caught on to it as well means it’s not a nitpick, it’s obvious to most that there appears a contradiction.

      I’ll say generally that I’m wrestling with how to explain my dismissal of Raymond Bourque’s last season and Stanley Cup as anything worthy of celebration, rather than a fabrication, a kabuki. I offered some examples but I’m not sure if there are any equivalent situations. And like I said, it’s hard for me to be objective about the Bruins.

      In reference to my hockey team example, the background is that we joined an established league, la Ligue Inter-Hôtel, as a first-year team, and as the smallest hotel in the league, against mega-plexes like le Château Champlain. Our HR Director, sensibly, announced that anyone who wanted to play could play, since the Employee Social Fund was used to buy jerseys and league dues.

      The problem was, we did get guys who’d never played beyond a little ball hockey, and some shinny. One of the guys was literally skating on broken ankles, would run more than he’d skate. Meanwhile some of the guys on the other teams had played some Junior A, midget AAA, or that’s what we were told. It sure seemed that way.

      So we’d get blown out. Those guys were playing in a competitive league, but our HR Director approached it as a social, recreational league. Our two goalies were the classic “I can’t skate, so I can’t play forward or defence, so I’ll be the goalie.” Both of them. Morale fell. Some of our better players wanted to quit. What’s the point of playing on a line where you can’t pass the puck, knowing they’ll lose it to the other team? What’s the point of backchecking?

      In this climate, when Mr. Roberge asked us how we were doing, and we told him we were getting blown out and laughed at, that the Lions were being called kitty-cats or worse, he decided that wouldn’t do. And he told us, “Les p’tit gars, lâchez-pas, j’vas m’en occuper.”

      So for the second season, to avoid mutiny or mass defection, we massaged our roster. Daniel was let go, but left on good terms, and we retained him. One of our players had two childhood friends he’d grown up playing hockey with, they were brought aboard as banquet waiters. Suddenly, we had another really good forward line, and they were hilarious to watch, these three clean-cut preppy Crescent Street types, they were flying all over the ice, like the Hanson brothers without the gooning.

      One of the stunners who worked the Front Desk had a boyfriend who’d played goalie in Junior. The previous year’s goalies dropped out, one remained and acted as team coach/manager/social director. Awesome guy, great team guy. And so was the new goalie. You want to talk about confidence? It was like the first time I ever, finally, played rugby with a good fullback, who could kick, and who could run and attack. Made the game much easier.

      And the guys who couldn’t keep up understood. From one season to another, they dropped out, we didn’t have to force them out, they knew they weren’t able to play at this level. They should have played novice pickup hockey, not in our league. It wasn’t fun for them either. They saw the handwriting on the wall, at worst. I joined the softball team when I first started working there, and quickly realized that I couldn’t help them, I was probably hurting the team if anything, and was having trouble making games and practices because rugby came first. So I’d bowed out. I imagine they did the same.

      With these changes, now we had a real team. We’d had an additional year of ‘recruiting’, where if you knew a good hockey player who needed a job, he was hired, by order of Mr. Roberge. The nucleus was still there, but now we had four defencemen who could play and on some nights three forward lines, with no real weak links. The previous year, we’d tried to spread out our talent at forward, but it was one guy against the other team, they wouldn’t get anywhere, so early on we stacked one line, and the rest of the forwards were cannon fodder. We hoped that our #1 line could get us three or four goals, but the other lines would give up ten or twelve easy. Some other teams would play keepaway, pass five times before they’d shoot, or they’d not shoot, just set each other up for tap-ins. It wasn’t fun for them either.

      And yeah, we bent the rules beyond breaking, to compensate for being a new team, and for being the hotel with the smallest number of staff, but now we belonged, and could offer a game to any other team in the league. That part falls outside of my example. My main point. Which is that you don’t quit on your team and join another just to win, you stay with your guys and you persevere, and you go out for drinks afterwards. And when you’re at work, it’s great to be there with your teammates.

      And to bring my brief explanation to a close, pro hockey works much the same way. From year to year, you get some turnover, some new kids join up and some veterans are let go, but your team is your team. The Jacques Laperrières and Don Awreys must give way to the Larry Robinsons and the Bill Nyrops. But the Canadiens remain the Canadiens.

  4. Mavid ® says:

    Only 70 days to go kiddies even less if you include pre season.we made it to Calgary last night..should be home today whoohooo

    Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

  5. JohnBellyful says:

    Unbelievable.
    Canadiens’ most voluble player has stayed mum for days now.

  6. Habfan10912 says:

    @Dipsy. Did u get Bripro’s email yet?

  7. Maritime Ronn says:

    Good morning

    Good, fun discussion about all-time best Dmen. (…as Habs fans wait like expecting fathers for The Contract)

    Of course Bobby Orr was the best, but there were also a few unsung really good ones not mentioned.

    Sandwiched between Doug Harvey’s 7 Norris Trophies and Bobby Orr’s 8 in a row Norris wins, 2 less talked about outstanding Dmen:

    1) Pierre Pilote – Chicago Blackhawks:
    A Quebec born that got away, Pilote won 3 consecutive Norris Trophies from 1963-65, and was runner up another 3 times.
    Only Orr, Harvey, Bourque, and Lindstrom won more.
    Potvin, Chelios, and Coffey also have 3.

    During the 1960s, he formed one of the best D pair in the NHL with Elmer (Moose) Vasko – nicknamed Moose because he was a huge/monster Dman for that era….6’2″-200 lbs.

    2) Jacques Laperriere:
    Won the Norris in 1966, won the Calder in 1964 – only 1 of 10 NHL Dmen ever to win the Calder Trophy.
    A 4 time All Star (twice 1st team)….6 Stanley Cups as a player + 2 more as an assistant coach for the Habs in 86-93 Cup wins.
    He was the anchor of a Habs underrated D unit
    Also a member of the Hall of Fame.

    Laperriere had one of the best slapshots in the league at that time.
    His wind up went – in golf talk, way beyond parallel.
    Early in his career the only problem with his shot was no one knew where it was going.
    It could just as well end up in the corner as on net.
    His shot was not only feared by the opposition, but also by his own team mates…

    • Cal says:

      I don’t give Orr the best Dman ever. I give him the best offensive Dman ever. Too often I saw the Habs making him look bad going by him.
      Best all around Dman for me is Larry Robinson. He had it all; he was the most complete Dman I’ve ever seen. Ray Bourque is up there, too. If Potvin could rush the puck, he’d be in their company.
      Paul Coffey was in the mold of Orr. All offense, practically no defense.
      These days, the league has many high quality Dmen, like Doughty, and Keith, PK and Pietrangelo. They are all missing an element that Larry had. Man, could he cow the opposition’s tough guys. So, for me, Larry is the best ever.

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        Well Cal, looks like we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.
        ——–
        What would Larry say?

        ” Larry Robinson, Orr’s defense partner during the 1976 Canada Cup, is still mesmerized by what he saw in that tournament, which was the only time Orr represented Canada on the ice.

        On bad knees that would eventually force him to retire early, Orr won MVP of the tournament and helped Canada win the championship.

        “He practiced with us, but as soon as we started playing the games he never practiced again because his knees were so bad,” Robinson told NHL.com.

        “He was maybe half or three-quarters of the true Bobby Orr, and yet he still was great to watch and great to play with.
        * He was still the best player on the ice.
        It was his anticipation, his acceleration, the way he could pass the puck or even shoot the puck.”
        —————-
        And not to forget that Orr had D partners like Awrey and Dallas Smith, while Big Bird was mostly paired with…Serge Savard

        • BJ says:

          I would agree, that Orr is the all-time best. Second on that list has to be Doug Harvey. He controlled the flow of the game even more so than Orr. Orr was dynamic, fast, shifty and had that great low shot. I saw him play as a junior for Oshawa and even at a very young age he owned the ice.

          • sprague cleghorn says:

            At the time of the 100th anniversary of the Habs, Dick Irvin and Red Fisher — who have seen more Habs games than anyone — both said that Harvey may have been the best player they ever saw on the team.

            … ‘ow could we forget that?

    • CharlieHodgeFan says:

      We see the peeling away of reputations. It’s a time thing, because we can only judge by what we see, and many many hockey players of great talent just aren’t on film we can watch. Even if they are, who watches an entire season, or a career? For me, Doug Harvey’s reputation is based on stats, and the respect with which the older generation of my family spoke of his skills. I watched Orr, Pilote and Laperriere on black and white TV, but I was a kid. My grandfather swore at Pilotte a lot, so I knew he had to be good. I took Savard and Lapointe for granted – that’s how Habs d-men played. Robinson, I got.
      And then life served up Malakhov and Karl Dykhuis.

      Now, we invest in hockey players like we invest in dancing horses. Sheltered schools, training, arenas all the time, nutritionists – the well to do parents around here spend more to turn their 5’4 sons into NHLers than the drunks spend on lottery tickets, and the hockey industry is waiting with open cash registers. It’s a huge investment in a lucrative fantasy, and how do we compare the ones who come out of it coached to the nth degree and living in gyms to the ones who came out of poverty, poor nutrition and furniture moving in the off season?

      It’s a great thread and I’m learning from it (thanks all) – I had forgotten Pilotte, for example. There so many holes in our perspectives, depending on when we were born.

  8. Cal says:

    For Dunboyne Mike- last heard of in France.
    July 28th, 2014 In a hotel curiously named Elsinore
    Marc Bergevin (upon hearing Meehan’s latest counter offer)

    To be, or not to be–that is the question:
    Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of outrageous Meehan
    Or to take arms against a sea of troubled fans
    And by opposing end them. To blink, to lose–
    No more–and by a blink to say we end
    The heartache and the thousands of unnatural posts
    The HIO commentariat is heir to. ‘Tis a consummation
    Devoutly to be wished. To lose, to blink–
    To blink–perchance to win: ay, there’s the rub,
    For in that moment of truth what Meehan may come
    Up with will have shuffled me off this mortal coil,
    Must give us pause. There’s the respect
    Of PK that makes a contract of so long life.

    For who would bear the whips and scorns for all time,
    HIO opponents wrong, the proud man’s insolence,
    The pangs of despised love, justice delayed,
    The insolvency of station, and the deals
    That patient merit of th’ unworthy takes,
    When he himself might his death make
    With barely two bodkins to rubs together?
    Who would cable bundles bear,
    To grunt and sweat under this weary life,
    But that the dread of Stanley always beyond our reach,
    The undiscovered country, from whose arms
    No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
    And makes us rather bear those players we have
    Than fly to others that we know not of?
    Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
    And thus the native hue of resolution
    Is glossed o’er with pale words cast to the media,
    This enterprise of great pitch and moment
    With this regard TSN currents turn awry
    And dream of Stamkos and Subban- what action. — Sign you now,
    This fair deal PK – Nimbus Warrior. In these millions
    Be all my sins remembered.

  9. UKRAINIANhab says:

    Glad to hear that Alex is doing well ! Continued prayers!

    Good morning all. Enjoy the day.

  10. Marc10 says:

    As thinking of the best shot I’ve seen by a defenceman. Chara’s is the hardest (honourable mention to Al Iafrate).

    But in terms of lethal one-timer accuracy on a consistent basis in games… who would you say had the best season on the point throwing bombs?

    Souray has to be up there, non?

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      2012

      ” Chara set a new record in the BlackBerry Hardest Shot event, shooting the puck at a blistering 108.8 mph.
      The Bruins’ captain beat his own record of 105.9 mph, set last year. He beat Nashville’s Shea Weber in the finals of the event, which has been dominated by the pair for several years.
      Weber also broke the old mark by firing a slap shot that hit an even 106 mph.

  11. habsgod says:

    hi everyone just thought i’d let u know that my son alex is doing very well in the children’s hospital in calagry…the doctors are amazed at how well he’s recovering from the 4 surgeries and the menningitis that he had….i want to thank a couple more hio members timo and rob from calgary…. rob and his wife visited alex today and really made ale’x day and he was very excited and the gifts rob and his mrs. brought him,they brought him a habs jersey,a coffee cup(travel mug) and a night light for his room! i’m at home in regina,alex had to phone so excited about his stuff! my wife and i cried at the generosity of what rob did for our little boy! that made alex’s day he was very,very excited my wife said she hadn’t seen alex this excited in a long,long time! so again i just wanted to say thank you again to all of you guys on here for your thoughts,and prayers for alex ……you guys are the greatest and it makes me so very proud to be a habs fan seeing all the love and support you guys gave me,my wife and alex that this most difficult time! alex said to me dad now i have a new habs jersy that i can wear to the summit and i can wear when we watch the habs win the stanle6y cup! he said with my new jersey dad! i’m now a full fledged habs fan ! i said that can go with your habs pj’s your shirts,winter jacket you were born a habs fan son! he said i love you dad and i can’t wait to watch our habs play! also like i saidi want to give a big thank-you to timo and ian cobb,and rob! my heart goes out to you!
    everyone on here thank you again so very much ill never forget all the out pouring of love for my son alex!
    THANK-YOU GUYS SO VERY MUCH! I LOVE ALL YOU GUYS
    HABSGOD(JOHN SMIDT)

  12. Mavid ® says:

    71

    Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

  13. steadyjake says:

    Wings extended Tatar 3 yrs/$8.25m ($2.75m per). Thats a steal for this shifty guy. Why can’t we get players like this and sign them for chump change?

  14. Laramy87 says:

    Subban signs Thursday nite. No way he goes to arbitration.

  15. habstrinifan says:

    Saw a post by CJ re Brian Fogarty. True talent.. sad story.
    His name brought to mind another player that I was jumping for joy when the HABS got him..can’t remember if it was a draft or a trade.

    Brent Bilodeau. Man I was sure he was gonna be the #1 of another BIG 3.

    Don’t know what happened to him.

    “Protest Rogers blackout of Habs game…sign at:

    https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds.

    • Marc10 says:

      Foot speed and mobility… or lack thereof.

      I recall Stephane Lebeau skated right through him at training camp and that was that as they say. Someone forgot to check if the guy could skate with the big boys.

  16. BriPro says:

    Dipsy. If you’re still up, please get my email from Ian, burly, Frank, Chris or Jim and get ahold of me. My daughter hasn’t found a place yet and she’s moving there in two weeks. Needless to say, it’s very stressful.

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      OK.

      Hmm… I don’t have any of their emails.

      Try emailing me at

      os6yi+662tcz404zjv4@sharklasers.com

      —–
      Moving. Forward.

      • twilighthours says:

        While that was hilarious, you can be such a jerk sometimes.

        • DipsyDoodler says:

          That can’t be the right place for that comment because

          1. it’s a non-sequitur

          and (more to the point)

          2. I actually can’t be such a jerk.

          —–
          Moving. Forward.

          • twilighthours says:

            No, you can be a jerk. And is that a real email address?

          • DipsyDoodler says:

            Yes it is. It’s guerrilla mail. It creates a disposable address that works for I think 24 hours. You keep the same basic address for yourself (e.g. qwerty@guerrillamail.com) that no one else sees , but the address everyone else uses changes every day. This means no one can spam you.

            —–
            Moving. Forward.

          • Cal says:

            Re:Spam.
            I have literally not received any since July 1st. The new requirements are hurting the spammers and that’s a very good thing.

          • DipsyDoodler says:

            You’re lucky. I’ve stopped receiving emails from legitimate groups that I simply don;t want to hear from, but the sp*am keeps a comin’

            —–
            Moving. Forward.

  17. Habfun says:

    TSN says Subban will sign for 8yrs at 8mil. the day before arbitration.
    I agree and it will be a good signing!
    Git er done!

    It’s all about the CH

    • HabFan in Edmonton says:

      I hope they are right, 8 or less for a long term contract and I am a happy man.

    • PK says:

      Agree
      But … that is not really TSN insider info …
      More like Habs’ fans expectations …

      PK, Price and (hopefully) Galchenyuk are the core.

      >>>> Les Canadiens sont là
      _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

      “Une équipe de hockey sur glace de l’île de Mont-Royal va gagner la Coupe de Lord Stanley à 24 reprises dans le 20e siècle et trois fois au cours du 21e siècle.”

      – Nostradamus, 1552

  18. Chris says:

    Normand: I saw your reply in our Ray Bourque discussion below, and I have to ask. If Bourque’s playing for a “stacked deck” team in Colorado cheapens his legacy, how can we in good grace concede the legacy we do to the Habs greats of the 1970’s.

    The 2nd Avalanche championship team was no less stacked than the 1970’s Habs dynasty.

    2000-01 Colorado Hall-of-Fame calibre players: Sakic, Forsberg, Roy, Blake, Bourque

    Montreal Hall-of-Fame calibre players: Lafleur, Shutt, Lemaire, Cournoyer, Lapointe, Savard, Robinson, Gainey, Dryden

    I don’t understand how you can downgrade what Lebron James or Ray Bourque did because they got together with the other best players, yet celebrate the fact that Sam Pollock was able to game the system to do precisely the same thing. In both cases, you had very stacked teams. But for my money, the late 1970’s Habs were far more stacked than Colorado was.

    Bourque earned his Stanley Cup ring. He played the full season, and he was a vital cog in the machine. He and Blake gave the Avalanche the piece they needed to get over the hump, something they had been unable to do for the previous four seasons.

    • Paz says:

      As a 40 year old Bourque put up 59 points during that Stanley Cup season, and then another 12 in the playoffs.

      Normand is a bright guy. Very bright.

      But I believe Bourque earned that Stanley Cup ring big time.

      Robinson had 13 points as a 40 year old, by the way, playing like an old man trying to earn a few extra dollars for the Kings.

      Bourque deserves full credit for that season in Colorado. He was a HUGE factor in helping that team win the Cup. HUGE!

    • J.Ambrose.OBrien says:

      I’m not sure how anyone could even think of denigrating Ray Bourque. Widely regarded as one of the top 5 d-men to ever play the game. Don’t take my word for it:
      http://www.prohockey-fans.com/hockey-articles/best-nhl-defensemen_070708.html
      http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/47477-Nicklas-Lidstrom-NHLs-secondbest-defenseman-of-alltime-calls-it-a-career.html
      http://thehockeywriters.com/the-best-nhl-lineup-ever-the-defensemen/

      I remember Dec. 31, 1975

    • Marc10 says:

      Bourque, as great as he was, won his cup as a mercenary for hire. It’s a ring, but it’s hollow. He showed up, applied his considerable skills to a stacked lineup and helped them get over the top.

      If sport is poetry, this isn’t great material. That said, he’s not the first and won’t be the last and it’s a safe bet most people in his position would do the same thing. There’s one goal once you make it to the NHL.

      • Chris says:

        Since the player’s union has been so successful in bringing down the age of unrestricted free agency, the majority of the stars in the league are mercenaries for hire. Is Ray Bourque signing with Colorado to win a Cup any different than Jonathan Toews re-signing with a stacked Blackhawks team for more chances to win the Cup?

        I just don’t see why his ring is hollow. It’s not like he was a bit part player in the victory. The Avalanche needed him to win. They had to get buy similarly stacked teams in Detroit and Dallas, before facing a pretty stacked New Jersey team in the finals.

        • Marc10 says:

          It’s a lesser victory, to my eyes, to walk away from your team when you’re in a team sport to chase silverware with strangers.

          People are tribal to a large degree and Ray broke with that tradition when he left the Bruins to chase the cup with a rival tribe.

          It’s biblical in a way… I don’t like it, but I get it. Does that change the fact Ray Bourque was one of the finest defencemen to ever suit up… No. Does it cast a shadow over his cup victory? I can see it. He didn’t win it with ‘his team’. He left them behind.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Paz, thanks for the kind words. When my (ex-)girlfriend would make a big goof or say something very silly, I’d pause and say: “You’re so pretty…” I think you’re using the same tactic. Ambrose, if you read my posts, I don’t denigrate Raymond Bourque, I hold him in very high regard, he’s one of the best defencemen I’ve ever seen play, up there with Larry, Denis Potvin, Paul Coffey.

      What I object to is the way this Stanley Cup was engineered, and we’re all supposed to act like it’s a great thing that he “finally won, finally got his ring.” The Stanley Cup is meant to be hard to get, and great players will have wonderful careers and never even come close. To think that every player should have his turn is kind of defeating the purpose in my view.

      When I was playing rugby in Montréal, I played for a poor club that underperformed in first and second division. I joined that club because that’s where all my friends and current coaches were playing, it was a natural landing spot. Eventually, I moved from that immediate area, and it would have been very convenient to join a closer club, which happened to be a powerhouse, and I could have gotten rides from a buddy to the practices and games, instead of interminable bus and metro rides, but I stayed with my club. I wanted to keep playing with my friends, even if it meant losing more often than not. I figured I was improving, my team was also, we’d turn it around. And after a while we kind of did.

      I played hockey for the hotel I worked at, the team was in its first year, we had maybe half the team who’d never played organized hockey before. We were horrible, losing by double digits. Teams would skate away from our net after a goal, and we’d hear them saying: “Okay, everyone’s scored except for Francesco, let’s get him a goal next.” Daniel, our best player, was a big rangy centre, kind of a Bobby Smith type. He got fired, but by that time control of the team had been wrested from the Director of H.R., who insisted that everyone who wanted to play should play. The President of the hotel, a Québec boy made good, who’d listened attentively when we explained that the other teams would laugh at us, at our jerseys, and our hotel, now decreed that we should be competitive. The overmatched players bowed out gracefully, we got ourselves a few ringers, and they became Banquets Waiters who never worked a shift ever. And Daniel was retained as a ‘Banquet Waiter’, even though by then his girlfriend had also left our hotel and gone to a promotion at another, and he could have played there, on a much better team. But he wanted to keep playing with his bros.

      To me, that’s what team sports are about. You don’t go to the biggest, baddest, strongest team, win with them, then beat your chest about it. You win with your boys. Free agency and trades and all the player movement have muddled this picture, but again, using the spectrum I described earlier, I put Raymond Bourque’s championship at the ‘big whoop’ end of the scale.

      Raymond Bourque got traded to Peter Forsberg’s and Joe Sakic’s and Patrick Roy’s team after deciding that he’d never win in Boston, and that the technical act of winning the Stanley Cup trumped all. Which it doesn’t.

      And I’m struggling to come up with examples, but one that popped up in my mind was that horrid film “Muriel’s Wedding”. A terrible movie with an unlikable heroine, and I was bored out of my mind and I probably missed a lot of the plot subtleties, but basically all that mattered to her was having a wedding. Not meeting a man she loved and getting married as a result, just the actual wedding, the dress and the cake and the rest of that whole ordeal. At least, that was my take.

      Anyway, to explain myself more clearly, the Stanley Cup was the wedding, and Raymond Bourque was the Muriel.

      But I’m not denigrating Raymond here. No. I just ascribe this episode of poor judgment on having to wear that awful jersey for the vast majority of his career. It made him lose his moral compass, his capacity to reason.

      And Chris, like I said in my original post, I’m asking for help in finding the mot juste. My central point wasn’t that teams shouldn’t be stacked, but that the game shouldn’t be rigged, it should be fair. I have no problems with great dynasty teams, the Canadiens, the Islanders, the Oilers. I preferred those to the ‘parity’ that exists today. Those teams had an identity, you could see them building to something. As much as I disliked Bryan Trottier, I bowed to him when he won, just as Guy Lafleur did when he lost the scoring championship to him on the last day of the season, and sent a congratulatory telegram.

      The Islanders grew up together, endured some tough lessons and losses, before winning. Same with the Oilers. And the Avalanche/Nordiques. Raymond Bourque was an accidental tourist on that team, and I don’t think I’m using that term correctly.

      To contrast with these organic teams, I never bought in to baseball’s Yankees. So George Steinbrenner went out and bought the biggest names in free agency every year, and sometimes it finally clicked. Another big whoop. If the Expos had won a World Series, the Team of the 80’s, after years of disappointment, that would have been great.

      So yeah, I don’t think Ray Bourque was a bad player, I don’t think he was finished when he started playing in Colorado, but I don’t celebrate it as an instance of karmic justice or of the hero finally getting his due. He took the easy way in.

      • J.Ambrose.OBrien says:

        Sorry UCE, I didn’t see the original discussion (far too lazy to scroll down) so I had no context. Just an abiding respect and admiration for Ray B. And I see nothing wrong in going to a “stacked” team in order to achieve your lifelong goal of a championship before you retire. Everyone should take the opportunity to experience that, if it is available. He established himself as a legend during his years with the Bruins. The reward then came with the Avs. More power to him.

        I remember Dec. 31, 1975

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          I remember when he was a member of the Éperviers de Sorel, and the team moved to Verdun, I thought it meant that he was a “Junior Canadiens”, and property of the Habs. Marc Lachapelle of CKAC would report every morning on the previous night’s scores, and his name was constantly rattled off: “…et Raymond Bourque a amassé deux autres passes.”

          When his draft was held, I hoped for a miracle, that he would fall to the Canadiens, and was crushed that the Bruins grabbed him. I think I felt almost as bad when they took Malcolm Subban. I read the next morning that we had taken a player named Gaston Gingras.

          In D’Arcy Jenish’s book on the Canadiens, he writes how Sam Pollock tried to get the #1 overall pick off the Islanders to get Denis Potvin, and that Bill Torrey was tempted but ultimately decided to keep the pick. I always wondered how good the Canadiens might have been with him in the ranks. Same with Raymond Bourque.

      • Chris says:

        So long as people are going to use team championships won as some idiotic measure of a player’s individual worth, I have no problem whatsoever with a player chasing a ring.

        Bourque was not a mercenary that came in at the trade deadline to scoop a ring. (That was Rob Blake.) Bourque was the best defenceman on their team. No Bourque, no Stanley Cup for Roy, Sakic and Forsberg in 2000-01. It is pretty much that simple.

        I just get tired of the “Bourque rode the coat-tails to a Stanley Cup” line. I could maybe see that being applied to Denis Savard, as he was a shadow of his former self when he got his Stanley Cup in Montreal in 1993, a victory that people don’t seem to have any problem with.

        I didn’t see any sort of karmic justice. I saw it as a very good player playing a very important role on a Stanley Cup winning team. No more, no less.

        As you might guess, I don’t at all subscribe to the notion that team success should be held against individual players. Toe Blake played on some of the worst Montreal Canadiens teams in history as a player. That doesn’t mean he was a bad player…it just means he was a great player stuck on some teams that were incompetently managed.

        Marcel Dionne, Gilbert Perreault, Peter Stastny, Brad Park, Joe Thornton, Jean Ratelle, Jarome Iginla, Henrik Lundqvist, Michel Goulet, Adam Oates, Borje Salming…all were great players who just didn’t have the luck of playing on a stacked team.

        Unlike many of the guys in the past, Bourque had a chance to change his destiny. I don’t begrudge him that, nor does it taint his victory in the least.

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          Jean Ratelle is always a player that springs to mind for me, how such a gentlemanly player never won, plus had to serve on the dirty Bruins.

          As far as Denis Savard, I think all Montrealers kind of felt the same way, sort of happy for him, but a little embarrassed that he wasn’t on the ice but behind the bench to win the Cup?

          I understand your take, it’s fair enough. My reaction is derived from my hatred of the Bruins, and manufactured events, like players who sign a one-day contract to “retire as a Milwaukee Brewer…”, or other such nonsense. Like the Derek Jeter retirement tour, coming on the heels of the Mariano Rivera retirement tour.

  19. Habitforming says:

    Pretty sure Habs will have an announcement to make tomorrow.

  20. Chris says:

    My hockey watching started ~1984, so take the following with that caveat.

    All Excitement Team

    Mogilny-Datsyuk-Bure
    Coffey-Niedermayer
    Hasek

    When he was healthy, Mogilny was unreal. It is really unfortunate that injuries derailed his career so young. Datsyuk is probably the best dangler I’ve seen. Mario and Yzerman were both great, as was Savard. But I’ll take Datsyuk by a hair over Mario. Bure was the most electric forward I got to watch…crazy speed, good hands, and he loved the game.

    At defence, I have to take Paul Coffey, who was just a magician and the best skater I’ve ever seen. On the other side, I will take Scott Niedermayer, another guy who could flat out fly and who had an off-the-scale hockey IQ. Subban and Doughty are flashy, and could get there if they don’t settle down their games like most younger, flashy defencemen in the past have done. Konstantinov, Stevens (who I detested for his head-shots), and Kronwall we/are all good fun to watch for their huge hits.

    In net, I can’t take anybody other than Dominik Hasek? Tim Thomas was also unorthodox, but Hasek was ridiculous. Best goalie in the sport during my lifetime (and yes, that includes both Roy and Brodeur).

    • J.Ambrose.OBrien says:

      I like it! But give me Robinson instead of Niedemayer, to throw the fear of God into those comin’ the other way.

      I remember Dec. 31, 1975

      • Chris says:

        Unfortunately, Robinson’s best years were just before I started watching. He was still very good in 1986, for example, but he was more of an elder statesman than an exciting player. The exciting Larry Robinson was in his 20’s, and I missed all those years.

        • J.Ambrose.OBrien says:

          To me, he was the ultimate package. The size of Chara (relative to that time), the speed of a Niedemayer, the shot of PK, and the smarts of Lidstrom. He absolutely dominated back there.

          I remember Dec. 31, 1975

      • PK says:

        +1
        Robinson could handle the 70’s Bruins and the Flyers.
        ‘Nuff said.

        >>>> Les Canadiens sont là
        _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

        “Une équipe de hockey sur glace de l’île de Mont-Royal va gagner la Coupe de Lord Stanley à 24 reprises dans le 20e siècle et trois fois au cours du 21e siècle.”

        – Nostradamus, 1552

  21. BriPro says:

    Hello to all from Cape Cod. I finally found some free WiFi.
    We’re spending the day in downtown Boston, and I have to admit….
    It’s a Beautiful city.
    I still can’t stand the Bruins, but the rivalry is front and centre when it comes to sports conversation.
    I’m liking the Eller signing and still holding out hope for a reasonable long-term deal for PK.
    If I can’t find decent Wifi between now and next weekend when we’re home, then I guess I’ll save my rant for then.
    For now, cheers to all and I’ll see you on the beach!

  22. Habitant in Surrey says:

    After 64 years of watching hockey, …these are My personal recollections of ‘the best’, most impactful, combined with ‘lift You out of Your seat most exciting’ Players I EVER watched in hockey.

    Forwards: Guy Lafleur — Gilbert Perreault — Mike Bossy

    Defence: Bobby Orr — Larry Robinson

    What about ‘the Rocket’ ?; I am almost 70, if I was more like 80, likely ‘the Rocket’ would have replaced Bossy.

    What about Gros Bill ?; I based my choice on the ‘lift me out of My seat’ factor.

    What about Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky ? …Gretzky was sublime more than exciting, IMO …it was a very tough choice between Mario and Perreault, but for better or worse I will go with Gilbert Perreault

    ____________________________________________________

    Petition To Protest Roger’s Blacking Out Of Habs’ Games On RDS West Of Quebec

    Read and sign at; http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds

    • HabFan in Edmonton says:

      I am a little younger and agree with your selections except for perhaps Mike Bossy, probably the best pure scorer I ever saw but not sure he ever “lifted me out of my seat”. Bobby Orr was the best player I ever saw for sure.

      Two players in Edmonton who could lift me out of my seat were Paul Coffey and Glenn Anderson. Anderson was absolutely fearless driving to the net and scored many highlight reel goals. Coffey was the best skater I ever saw, made it look so easy and effortless, lacked Orr’s toughness. Of course I am a little biased because I saw a lot of the Oilers (split a season ticket during their glory years, probably just did it so I could see the Habs when they came to town).

      • Habitant in Surrey says:

        Paul Coffey and Glenn Anderson I did not not see often enough, but what I did see it is hard to argue against them.

        Relevant to Bossy, I followed his goal-scoring exploits as a junior with Laval. The frequent 5, 6, 7 goal games he produced. I was certain, if available, that Sam Pollock was too smart not to select Bossy.

        To this day, when I hear discussion of the ‘brilliance’ of Sammy Pollock, there is a huge asterisk flashing in neon within the netherworld of what’s left of My brain cells :)

    • CJ says:

      Best player I ever saw live was Bryan Fogarty during his last season in the OHL.

      Best goal scorer was Brett Hull.

      It might be my Canadiens biased, but Kovalev was likely the most talented with the puck, not to mention the fact that he possessed a real nasty streak.

      Most entertaining was Paul Shantz of the LNAH (Quebec senior league).

      Lastly, the guy who wore his helmet closest to his eyes was Sheldon Surrey, who was also one of my favorite Canadiens in the past 20 years. Darren Langdon was a close second (the helmet, not the favorite part).

      • Kooch7800 says:

        Bryan was a tragic story. He had all the tools in the world and could have been an NHL great but his personal demons destroyed him.

        He is from Brantford where I from and I heard some unfortunate stories about him when the substance abuse would take over.

        In the end an enlarged heart is what caused his death.

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      Agree about Coffey. Every time he carried the puck, it was a scoring chance. Forward…Pavel Bure.

    • Wintercount says:

      Bobby Hull – pulled people out of their seats with his end to end rushes EVERY game and with a howitzer of a slap shot…pure power. Has to be in that equation.

      don’tyathink.

    • PK says:

      Hey HiS:

      I always liked Coffey, smooth skater; a fourth forward if you will.
      That 1984 Canada Cup video that I posted earlier today,
      (Game 2 OT against those dastardly Soviets):

      Coffey makes a poke-check on the Soviet two on one.
      A few mins later, his point shot was handled by Bossy for the winner.

      Second all- time favourite: Robinson – a true workhorse.
      Remember that end to end goal that he scored against the Bruins?
      Plus he bought some respect by knocking around the Flyers.

      Up front: Lafleur, Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy.

      Never saw Orr play but I have heard a lot about him … back when the Bruins had some integrity, if that is even possible …

      Oh. is Subban the next Coffey???

      >>>> Les Canadiens sont là
      _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

      “Une équipe de hockey sur glace de l’île de Mont-Royal va gagner la Coupe de Lord Stanley à 24 reprises dans le 20e siècle et trois fois au cours du 21e siècle.”

      – Nostradamus, 1552

  23. Sportfan says:

    100 days ago today the First World War commenced, that’s crazy.

    Sports and Entertainment in the link click and enjoy, clicking is fun!
    http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/

  24. Sportfan says:

    Blue Jays pitching future is bright!
    http://lastwordonsports.com/2014/07/28/jays-young-arms-show-bright-future/

    Sports and Entertainment in the link click and enjoy, clicking is fun!
    http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/

  25. stephen says:

    Anybody in the market for a house?

    Saku is selling…

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/42-Echo-Gln_Irvine_CA_92603_M16152-04742?row=4

    edit: Well dang it anyway, I now see this topic is already linked in the main article above. Bah humbug.

  26. Hobie says:

    Jarred Tinordi likely stays in Montreal this season, IMO. At the worst he gets sent down for a wake up call for a few weeks or a month.

    There is no way Davis Drewiske plays lol. Anything is possible I guess? Tinordi, Mike Weaver and Nate Beaulieu will be rotating in and out of the lineup. IMO.

    The defence will be better for sure. I loved Doug Murray’s and Frankie Boullion’s hearts, but rotating the two kids will be an improvement.

    • B says:

      Don’t forget about Pateryn, I think he could be in the mix too.

      –Go Habs Go!–

      • Hobie says:

        Could be yes. I still have no idea what they are going to do with all three of them? I’d like to see Pateryn as well. One of Tinordi or Pateryn might be very upset when they have to spend a large amount of time in Hamilton. I want both to do well but I expect Tinordi is slightly better at this point and has more upside so he’ll get the nod. IMO.

        The only way all three of Beaulieu, Tinordi and Pateryn are on the roster at the same time is if there is an injury to one of the Habs regulars.

        • Kooch7800 says:

          Hi Hobie,

          From what I have seen of pateryn he is ahead of Tinordi currently. He can move the puck out of his zone quite well and was getting top minutes on the bulldogs D last year. I agree though long term the habs may see move upside than Tinordi. I do think it would be a waste to not try Pateryn for a few games. I was surprised he did not get any games last year.

      • zak says:

        Nygren could be in play also.

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      Jarred Tinordi likely stays in Montreal this season,…

      … until he makes a mistake.

      Unless Therrien’s changed.

      —–
      Moving. Forward.

    • JUST ME says:

      I think that 3 kids will fight for 2 jobs. Pateryn,Beaulieu and Tinordi. I have a lot of respect for the Cube wich i rooted for from his first day in the league up until the last game of last season but now is the time to turn the page for the Habs. They will have a good season but will struggle to have an as good a season as the last one so it`s the perfect time to blend in new blood. I would rather suffer the few errors now than wasting any more time to have them graduate and give them their chance to make it.

    • Chris says:

      I certainly didn’t say Drewiske would play. I said that he would be the most natural choice to be carried as a 7th defenceman because he knows he isn’t going to play much.

      If there is an injury to a top-6 guy, you call up Tinordi or Pateryn. But if it is just a message that needs to be sent or a guy that needs to be there in case of emergency, Drewiske is the guy. He played that role with the Kings, and he can do it for Montreal. The fact that he is signed to a basement deal makes him even more attractive.

  27. piper says:

    I’ve never seen him play but from what I’ve read Gregoire looks like a bigger version of Gally.

  28. B says:

    The Dogs look to be tougher next season, but I don’t see much of an overall improvement in goal scoring. Only 1 team scored less goals than Hamilton in the AHL last season. Hopefully some guys will step it up and surprise in that department.

    –Go Habs Go!–

    • HabFab says:

      Hensick > St Pierre
      de la Rose > Blunden
      Sekac > Leblanc
      Dowell > Macenauer
      Crisp > Tarnasky
      Hudon > Nattinen
      Carr > Quailer
      Bozon > Courtnall
      Nevins > Qwens

      Andrighetto going into 2nd year and Thomas going in healthy.

      Should be more scoring depth. Scoring by committee if need be.

      • B says:

        I hope you are correct, but I don’t share your enthusiasm. St.Pierre has been a more prolific AHL goal scorer than Henseck. 18 is a lot of goals for de la Rose. Dowell has never scored more than 7 in the AHL. 13 for Crisp as a rookie would be very nice. Sekac is a mystery to me. etc etc. I would love to see the rookies fill the net, but fear it may be too much to expect that much from that many of them. They may be missing some O help on the back end and have to spend more time short handed. Again, I do hope you’re view is more accurate than mine. Time will tell. Cheers!

        –Go Habs Go!–

  29. punkster says:

    Bwoar…have you seen this interview from 1991?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BslNucq9jXo

    I managed to catch Sun Ra at the Bermuda Onion during that gig…the only time I saw him live. The man was legend but his bands were simply beyond belief.

    Release the Subbang!!!

  30. DDO_Habs_Fan says:

    Since it looks like there will be no more room for Moen, how about trading him for an enforcer? The Habs lose skill-wise but it will fill a need and move some salary.

  31. Rad says:

    If you look at the Habs D roster, it’s fairly certain that both Beaulieu and Tinordi will start the year in Montreal. Beaulieu is the offensive defenseman that will log time on the PP while Tinordi will be the defensive stalwart who plays on the PK, now that Josh Gorges is gone. The first pairing PK will likely be Weaver and Emelin, and the 2nd wave will probably be Subban and Tinordi. If Weaver goes down with injury (he is a small, older guy who takes a lot of hits), the Right-shooting Greg Pateryn will be first in line to fill in for Mike on the right side.

    • Ncognito says:

      I would guess it would look more like Markov and Emelin on the first PK unit, with Weaver and Subban/Gilbert/Beaulieu on the second. Tinordi will see time on the second unit as well, but I see him as the 7th D-man for most of the season.

      • Rad says:

        I don’t think they’re going to want to wear out Markov on the PK. Plus, one of the stated reasons in trading Gorges was that they wanted Emelin to play on his natural (left) side. Both Gilbert and Beaulieu will see time on the PP, probably very little time on the kill.

    • Chris says:

      I’m not sure how you compute that.

      LD: Markov, Emelin, Beaulieu
      RD: Subban, Gilbert, Weaver
      Extra: Drewiske, possibly a veteran signing (Bouillon?)

      Right now, Tinordi is the odd man out. He will come up, as an injury almost certainly will take down one of the top-6, but Tinordi looks set to start the season in Hamilton. He will gets lots of playing time there and will be ready when the need arises.

      I can’t see Tinordi being kept around as a 7th D when he can be playing huge minutes in the AHL.

      • Rad says:

        I think that 6th D-man spot will be split between Beaulieu and Tinordi, one for offense and the other for defensive situations. The team usually carries 7 defensemen during the season. I am skeptical of the claim that playing huge minutes in the AHL will be better for Tinordi’s development than playing, say, 10-12 minutes a night in Montreal. He needs to adapt to the NHL. I think they’re going to try and push him into the big league.

        • Chris says:

          Playing 10-12 minutes per night every 2nd or 3rd game isn’t as useful as playing 25 minutes per night in all situations every game.

          But it is largely up to Tinordi…he had an uninspiring season last year in Hamilton, so it is up to him to steal a job by comping into camp flying. If it were purely based on merit, Tinordi fell behind Pateryn on the depth chart last season. Beaulieu has a leg up because he brings an element that the team needs, his ability to move the puck and play the second wave of the PP.

          Playing Tinordi with Weaver on the third pairing would be ugly, as neither guy is particularly adept at getting out of the defensive zone, and we saw enough offensively challenged third pairings last season.

          Platooning Weaver and Tinordi makes the most sense in terms of similar styles, but I simply can’t see Therrien playing Beaulieu and Tinordi together for any significant minutes, putting more stress on the top-4.

          • Rad says:

            I am thinking Tinordi will play 10-12 minutes every game, not just every 2nd or 3rd game. I am not sure how much more Jarred can learn in the AHL, he has been there for a while now and should be ready to graduate. Also, Tinordi like Beaulieu brings an element that the team needs, namely some of the size and “truculence” that was lost when Douglas Murray left. I take Bergevin at his word when he said that one of the reasons Gorges was traded is because they wanted to make room for their up and coming young defensemen, and to re-align the right side/left side equation on D.

            I see Tinordi playing a few shifts every game paired with Subban or Gilbert on the other side, not with Weaver.

          • Chris says:

            The team carries 7 defenceman, but they don’t dress 7 defencemen. You can’t split Tinordi or Beaulieu in the same game unless Weaver is sitting out.

            Maybe Weaver is content being a 7th defenceman, but I imagine he has some assurances of playing time given that there was some interest from other teams.

      • B says:

        I wouldn’t overlook Pateryn for sticking around after camp. He is very close to Tinordi and really closed a lot of that ground last season. I am not sure how Drewske will bounce back, but he may end up behind Beaulieu, Tinordi and Pateryn in the pecking order. I like the depth on D among the prospects (but I would like to see more goal scoring forwards there to be pushing for a job).

        –Go Habs Go!–

        • Chris says:

          Camp will determine which of Pateryn or Tinordi is ahead of the other on the depth chart, but I think Beaulieu is now ahead of both as he is big, strong, mobile and he can play some PP minutes.

  32. JUST ME says:

    Budget wise, i like the way Bergevin handles things.Plenty of space to deal with P.K. and will have some left !
    Capgeek is a cool place to visit at this time of the year to see what is coming up…
    The Bucking Fruins will have choices to make. Already over budget and 3 players to sign .
    Tampa also has to make choices to cut the payroll and probably will have to let go those not delt with.
    But how about those Flyers ! 3 millions over budget and still players hoping for new deals !
    Maple Laughs are doing O.K. i guess if you do not mind having 9 fourth line players in your roster…
    Congratulations goes towards the Islanders who will give Alexey Yashin one last year buyout..How long has is been ? Seems like they have been paying for decades !

    Sad Senators who just do not want to pay and have a top notch team .

    • HabFab says:

      There is LTIR relief for Boston, Tampa and Flyers. Also Beverly in Dallas and Fisher in Nashville will be LTIR. Chicago is the only one hurting at this moment.

      • B says:

        If you mean Savard in Boston, then I think that still leaves them with about $3.218M to sign Smith, Krug and a 14th forward. That seems tight. Is there any other LTR relief for the Bruins or am I missing something else?

        –Go Habs Go!–

    • B says:

      I don’t like the idea of sliding bonuses to the following season (it can help make things tough as the Bruins are finding out this season). If they don’t slide any bonuses then it looks like they only have $7,969,167 in capspace left for next season. I hope Subban can fit in under that amount.

      –Go Habs Go!–

  33. HabFab says:

    Potential Hamilton Bulldogs

    GOAL:
    Condon, Mike
    MacDonald, Joey
    Tokarski, Dustin

    DEFENSE:
    Beaulieu, Nathan
    Bennett, Mac
    Dietz, Darren
    Drewiske, Davis
    Ellis, Morgan
    Makowski, David
    Pateryn, Greg
    Shea, Bobby
    Thrower, Dalton
    Tinordi, Jarred

    FORWARDS:
    Andrighetto, Sven RW
    Bozon, Tim LW
    Carr, Daniel LW
    Crisp, Connor C/LW
    de la Rose, Jacob C/LW
    Dowell, Jake C
    Dumont, Gabriel C
    Fournier, Stefan RW
    Hensick, TJ C
    Holland, Patrick RW
    Hudon, Charles C/LW
    Nevins, Jack LW
    Sekac, Jiri LW/C
    Thomas, Christian LW

    NOTES:
    – 2 to 3 of these players should make the Habs
    – Nygren has said he will not play in the AHL and will request a trade if he doesn’t make the Canadiens.

  34. HabFab says:

    Some more prospect rankings from allaboutthehabs;
    http://www.allaboutthehabs.ca/2014-top-30-prospects-10-6/

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Loving these. Thanks.

      • habstrinifan says:

        Ditto! Very appreciative of stuff like this.

        Which is why I hope no offense is taken when I say the rankings for Audette, Crisp and Pateyrn are too low.

        Audette is now one of our most skilled forwards and is not that small and his body type promises some filling out… unlike Hudon. If Audette, already relatively fearless, fills out then expect him vault into top 10 easy.

        Crisp is top 10 in my opinion.

        Pateyrn is one or two spots higher than he is ranked.

        “Protest Rogers blackout of Habs game…sign at:

        https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds.

        • Paz says:

          Audette has a great last name. He is small. He was small in junior. He is the same build as Desharnais.

          Crisp also has a great last name. Bergevin was a dman for Terry Crisp, an uncle, in Tampa.

        • Chris says:

          Crisp is still a long-shot to be anything more than a Travis Moen type player. His offence in the OHL never really got to a dominant level, despite being a man-child in his last season.

          Now he’s got to adapt to having few small and weak guys to physically dominate while also having to find the speed to avoid getting dominated himself. That is why his ranking remains lower than you might like.

          People want to compare Bryan Bickell and Crisp. That is fair to some extent, but it is worth noting that Bickell scored 45 goals and 83 points in 67 games in his last junior year. Crisp, with 28 goals and 55 points in 67 games, was well off that kind of pace.

          Crisp is a pretty average NHL prospect. He has some much-needed size, but he won’t bring much offence at the NHL level. He’s a natural leader, and he obviously doesn’t mind fighting, so that might be his ultimate in, a third or fourth line checking winger that can hit and fight. But his skating has a ways to go before he can do that.

    • Paz says:

      It’s possible none of these guys ever play for the Habs. Reway and Nygren are gone already I believe. McCarron is a long shot. Fucale can not displace Price unless Price is injured. And andrighetto? I think he has the best chance of the 5 and I hope he makes it.

      • HabsWin-nipeg says:

        Reway is not gone – my understanding is that he wants to play at the highest level possible to hone his game for the NHL, thus he moved to the KHL. Nothing wrong with that.

        • Paz says:

          There is no room for Reway on the Habs. We can not play a top 9 with Gallagher, Desharnais, Reway, and Reway is not a 4th liner.

          Reway is gone. He will never play a game for the Habs.

          • HabsWin-nipeg says:

            If Reway were to make the team, I believe that MB would clear out another smaller player, as it appears that he has designs on making the Habs bigger. As I don’t see the Habs moving Gallagher, I would suspect that would be DD. Having said that, Reway is a project in that he would have to develop discipline to go with his off the charts skill – no guarantee that will happen. He may end up being a bargaining chip a-la Colberg.

          • Paz says:

            He’s perfect for the European game. He will make money there.

      • DipsyDoodler says:

        Not sure why you say that. These guys are teenagers. Years away from the NHL.

        —–
        Moving. Forward.

    • Forum Dog says:

      Always enjoy reading about prospects. Surprised I didn’t see Lehkonen in there though. Unless he is in the top-five…..

      Guy scored at a .65 PPG pace as a teenager in the SM-Liiga, despite being undersized. Plays an aggressive game, always around the net.

  35. DipsyDoodler says:

    Re: what took them so long, I’ve always wondered why it took humanity so long to invent medicine (as opposed to witch doctoring).

    Even after the rebirth of European civilization it took – what – 500 years until someone figured it out that germs spread from one person to another. Humans stumbled on the theories of relativity and evolution by natural selection, built continent-spanning railways, St. Peter’s, the Brooklyn Bridge, invented flight, and all the major professional sports, before discovering the first antibiotic.

    So, the point is, sure we still allow bare-knuckled fighting in hockey but it’s par for the course.

    —–
    Moving. Forward.

  36. Un Canadien errant says:

    Bill Simmons at his best, navigating the waters between sports and popular culture.

    http://grantland.com/features/bill-simmons-romantic-comedy-or-sports-movie/

    ———————————————————————–
    It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  37. bwoar says:

    You guys made my point on Plekanec. We pretty much have:

    – 1 anecdote on Crosby (btw who doesn’t frustrate SC? He hates anyone actually competing against him.)

    – The same Eller vs. Pleks vis-a-vis team growth

    – The usual value comparisons against our other centres

    I’m not disparaging your points of view, at all – not at all the idea of my post. Everything you guys brought was valid. I don’t disagree with any of it.

    BUT

    There’s no simple, stunningly, stupidly-easy-to-digest argument that comes to mind immediately as to his efficiency as a top defense centre. It may be that the stat-zis have pages of them on their persons at all times, but I’ll say it again: I have to consider that the so-called superior defensive game is a myth, if this is the best evidence we can come up with. Notwithstanding that other posters may indeed have an answer to that.

    • Hobie says:

      I didn’t argue your original point. I agree that he isn’t an amazing shutdown center. He’s not bad, he’s certainly not a detriment at center.

      He scored 20 goals last year. With Vanek gone, Plekanec scored the 2nd most goals on the team. I think we’re going to need Plekanec next season.

      • Paz says:

        Goal scorers are usually wingers. Maybe we should move Plekanec to the wing and see if he can score 30 goals.

        Not kidding actually.

        I like the idea.

        • HardHabits says:

          Please correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t Plekanec a winger in the AHL that was converted to centre?

          At any rate I am all for the idea of Plex on wing, if not now then certainly down the road.

          • Paz says:

            He started on the wing for the Habs as well. He’s more of a scorer than a true playmaker.

            He’s not a great possession player, either, which a true center would normally give you.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      I think a lot of the debate right now hinges on the fact that Tomas is probably our best trade bait, for a few reasons. He’s signed for two more years, plays very well at a position in high demand right now in the league, and because a lot of the fans at least think we need to unclog our centre-ice position to create an opening for Alex Galchenyuk.

      From there, the discussion sometimes devolves into the pro-Tomas camp vs. the ‘haters’, whereas I think it’s more of a philosophical difference. Those who want to trade Tomas don’t generally dismiss his contribution, they just tend to think in the longer term, wanting to trade a veteran for young players, prospects and picks and the chance to develop a crown jewel. Those who want to keep Tomas think in terms of winning next season and making a push in the playoffs.

      The pro and con issues relative to Tomas are apparent to management also, and how they handle this file will tell us a lot about how they view the team. Two seasons ago they stood pat at the trade deadline, this year they spent a prime prospect and a second-rounder on Thomas Vanek. What’s their inclination this season?

      Hints for me are that Marc Bergevin stated that his team wasn’t mature yet, and that he was prepared to take a step back. Having said that, they may prize depth at centre way more than the ‘haters’ do, and may be thinking now that we’re one injury away from having a big, big hole on our team, and that we can’t spare Tomas quite yet.

    • HabsWin-nipeg says:

      I think what clouds the issue is that Pleks has for years been our most valuable centre, our best two way forward and penalty killer. He’s also been refreshingly honest about his own play, and is an all around good guy on appearance. Who dislikes Pleks (other than Crosby)? It’s seems almost sacrilegious to make the argument Bwoar is making. My own opinion is that Eller could soon usurp his place as the two way shut down centre on our team. Where does that leave Pleks? Does he become a 3rd line centre, (as my brother “tax-man” advocated to me the other night), or does he become trade bait to bring in other talent? I don’t think we have enough depth to replace Pleks at this point (Galchenyuk isn’t ready) thus I don’t see Pleks being traded anytime soon. I suspect he will be moved prior to his contract expiring though – maybe in the off season.

    • punkster says:

      Sun Ra, eh?

      Good to know someone else here gets it.

      Release the Subbang!!!

  38. bwoar says:

    What’s the argument for Plekanec being such a good defensive centre? He’s lost a half step, and doesn’t seem as effective in his shutdown role as he once was. And he can’t back that up by being great on the draw.

    Not sure whether this is an idea that’s simply alive and kicking because it once was this way, or if it’s actually still true as it ever was. I ask for some kind of verification or sanity check on this because it’s used in his defense endlessly. My only currently accessible hockey memories are from the playoffs & the last 20-25 games and I can’t recall many nights saying “Oh my that #14 is a blanket tonight.”

    Have I just lost too much memory to the jazz cigarettes? Or is this Plekanec meme really stale and based on old data?

    • UKRAINIANhab says:

      Ask the games best player right now, Sidney Crosby…

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I think he is asking the commentariat…….

      • CJ says:

        Ukrainian, with all due respect, I think you just validated Bwoar’s point. That series against the Pens was four years ago. Lot’s can change in four years. Tyler Myers was the rookie of the year once upon a time……

        In professional sports it’s all about what have you done lately. IMO, the lasting impression of Gionta and Pleks was an underwhelming performance in the post season.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Perhaps whomever the Bluejackets had on Crosby would be his answer or Bergeron on Boston….. I don’t doubt that Plex at present is our best center for shadowing other teams top players, but I also think Eller is getting close to being just as effective. In time with his bigger frame I expect him to have that shutdown role.

          • Habfan10912 says:

            Hiya Burly. I see you crossed the border successfuly. :)

            You know I appreciate Pleks game much more then some of our mutual friends but I tend to agree with you and CJ. It seems that Bergevin is changing the direction of the team’s leadership and responsibilities to the younger players.

            The moving of Gorges and the non signing of Gionta are indications of a leadership change and I suspect the thought is Eller may someday usurp Pleks as that shutdown center. Is that day now?

          • Paz says:

            Agree with Burly.

        • UKRAINIANhab says:

          I was actually talking about one of the games this year, I recall sidney yapping at Pleks at the faceoff dot…clearly frustrated with him. When asked before the next game against montreal if he needs to get ready mentally to play against pleks he gave a suttle shoulder shrug and a “whatever”

      • frontenac1 says:

        Toews is the best player in the League right now.

    • John Q Public says:

      About the Turtleplex. I believe it’s his last year here. If Lars steps it up and is on par with him will be dealt. If not he stays the year and is moved in the off season. My Data set is void.

      Did you really visit jazz clubs in the 1920’s ? I never heard it refer-ed to as that. ;)

    • Hobie says:

      Plekanec is easily as valuable as Desharnais and Eller. Probably more valuable at this exact moment in time. He had more goals than both, pays better at both ends of the ice than Desharnais and is pretty much on par with Eller.

      Unless the Habs get a number one center from somewhere (eventually Galchenyuk), there’s no point in trading Plekanec. Unless you put Galchenyuk at center.

      Even if Galchenyuk played center I’d much rather Galchenyuk-Eller-Plekanec than Galchenyuk-Eller-Desharnais.

  39. GrosBill says:

    Ha!

    I know many of you signed the petition regarding Rogers. But have you signed this one yet?

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/boycott-hockey-inside-out-site

    You bunch of bullies!

  40. J.Ambrose.OBrien says:

    Att’n Chris and Marc10: a terrific article by Jack Todd about this year’s Tour De France and Vincenzo Nibali. Yes, that’s right, I did use “terrific article” and “Jack Todd” in the same sentence. :)
    Nice to read the enthusiasm of a (relatively) recent convert to the splendour of the Tour.
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Jack+Todd+Tour+France+truly+grand+event/10067289/story.html

    I remember Dec. 31, 1975

  41. adamkennelly says:

    I follow hockeyfights on twitter…they posted a video of a great scrap between Brian McGrattan and David Koci from 2010…McGrattan is still around and still very willing and very able – prolly the HW champ of this past year.

    I say MB should target him if we can’t get a HW who can skate. McGrattan is a useless hockey player but days of Habs being intimidated and pushed around – days of threats from Lucic – would be over immediately.

    • CJ says:

      Big Ern is a great fighter. I’m not sure Montreal would be such a great fit though. I agree, he is number 1, but it would be nice to get a guy on the upswing, not downside of his career. At this point, I believe that the team might give Nevins a look in camp. I can’t wait to see he and Imama in pre season action. I have the date against the Bruins on September 23rd circled on my calendar.

      • adamkennelly says:

        Sept 23rd it is…Imama is very young – will he even be at the real Habs camp? I know they signed him but as a newly turned 18 year old – he could be in for some rough nights against men.

        Don’t know much about Nevins but doubt he is able to act like a deterrent to any misbehaving by the league scum bags.

        I’m suggesting a reputed HW scrapper on the downside of his career (but a really good one) to hold down the fort for the next couple of years until we have our own – every game playing, big, mean, scrapper. I’d be willing to take a do-over on the Parros experiment while we wait for homegrown talent. But they gotta be top notch or don’t bother.

        • CJ says:

          He’s not signed, just invited to camp.

          In any event, I am all for bringing someone into help until one of our younger guys is ready to go. I am just not sure who’s out there that fits the bill. Big Mac could be had as a UFA, but I can’t see him cracking the lineup. Biz Nasty would be a sideshow. The guy is willing, but not capable. Rosehill and Peluso could likely be had for a late round draft pick, while Bordeleau likely costs a little more.

          • adamkennelly says:

            agreed.

            I think Peluso would cost you a 4th, Rosehill a 5th and Bordeleau is not being traded.

            should be interesting to see what plays out – unfortunately I don’t think MB will do anything.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Not sure we should go after a heavyweight in trade, unless it’s a very low pick in exchange, like the seventh we spent on George Parros. I think the Flames/Burkie will value Mr. McGrattan highly, and ask for a lot in return, if they’d even let him go.

      I think a Steve McIntyre, who’s a free agent right now, or a similar veteran heavyweight, would do almost as well, or waiting until one of them pops up on waivers, although that is more risky, you risk going a good way into the season exposed.

      All I really want is a guy to neutralize the other team’s Colton Orr, until we can get our homegrown tough guy to come up through the minors.

    • frontenac1 says:

      Gratts is the undisputed Heavyweight Champ right now.I doubt Burkie would let him go cheap. He is however stockpiling heavyweights. Gratts, Westgarth,Engleland,Jackman and last year he signed Trevor Gillies for Abbotsford. Burkie could be having a mental breakdown, so who knows?

  42. CJ says:

    Good afternoon folks!

    A quick recap…..

    Firstly, Jack Dowell is not a fighter. He has fought, but he won’t be expected to carry this responsibility. Dowell is a leader, on and off the ice. This is a great signing.

    “Subban mum on contract talks.” Well, there is a first for everything I suppose….Mum and Subban won’t be used in the same sentence this week. I am not sure how this will unfold, but I do believe that it has the potential to rattle chains across the league. Of course, it just seems that the added pressure makes PK better, so maybe this will be a good thing.

    Big week in Hab land…..Ready and steady yourself friends. I have a feeling that we are in for a wild ride.

    • Cal says:

      The only ride is the speculation we will subject ourselves to with each hour that passes and no contract yet.

    • CJ says:

      Sorry, but I failed to weigh in on the comments comparing Brassard and Pleks. It seems like the overwhelming concensus is that Pleks is the better player. Maybe. When comparing contracts thought, Brassard age 26, is likely to improve, while Pleks at 31 is likely to steady his contribution or begin to decline. Further, based on point production and play last season, why is Pleks heralded as the better player? He didn’t have more points in the regular season or playoffs. He wasn’t a better faceoff guy. Maybe he’s better in the room? I honestly don’t know.

      I just hope last year was the exception and not the rule. Professional athletes are due a season below their career average, however the key will be the bounce back.

      • CharlieHodgeFan says:

        There’s this crazy little thing called defence that always springs to mind when I think of Pleks. It doesn’t get points for the player, just for the team.

        • CJ says:

          Like I said, I am hoping last year was the exception and not the rule. I do appreciate that +/- isn’t the only metric to measure defense, but Pleks was minus 7 in the postseason. Cut it any way you wish, but that’s not a great reflection on a player who is supposed to be strong defensively.

          Lastly, and I am trying to agree with you here, if Pleks is now characterized as a defensive player, is that not traditionally more consistent with a third line player?

    • Ian Cobb says:

      CJ …Did you get my e-mail.?

    • Kooch7800 says:

      Hi CJ,

      I listed Dowell as a scrapper as the two seasons he played in the nhl he had 9 fights each year. He is by no means a heavy weight but he tries to toss them.

      He can play hockey as a fourth line centre who has some leadership. I hope he will have a good influence on the bulldogs this year.

  43. DipsyDoodler says:

    Re: innovation in hockey. One thing I’ve never understood is why it took until the 1960s for the invention of the goalie mask.

    Do you know when the baseball catcher’s mask was invented? I googled it.

    1870. OK it was invented by the Harvard baseball team and they were probably pretty clever. Then again, until then catchers frequently had broken jaws so maybe not all that smart.

    But why didn’t anyone realize it might be a good idea in hockey for another hundred years?

    —–
    Moving. Forward.

    • Luke says:

      What a bunch of whiny crybaby scaredy cats.

      1870… pathetic.

      What ever happened to walking it off.

    • Phil C says:

      My guess is that it coincided with the use of a curved stick in the 1960s, and shooting in hockey became more dangerous for a goalie.

    • Rob says:

      Probably because hockey is always behind on everything. My guess is there was some guy named Donald Cherriman or Sir Brian Burkous who was reprimanding the notion of changing of the game and turning hockey players into “sissies”.

      The Montreal Canadiens: sporting the best AND worst fans since 1909!

      • GrimJim says:

        Unfortunately, one of those guys was named Hector Blake who had refused to allow Plante to wear his mask in a game fearing it would restrict Plante’s vision.

    • Chris says:

      Look how long it took for helmets to catch on, and subsequently visors. Hockey has always embraced a strange reluctance to protect the head and face.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      In the early days, it was against the rules for players to raise the puck (“No raisies!”), and for goalies to flop down to make saves, so the course may have been set by that. But yeah, hockey is not known for being a forward thinking sport.

    • Puck Bard says:

      My father was playing goal for the Loyola Warriors at a game at the Forum. This would have been around 1957. My Mom (then fiancee) was in the stands. My father took a puck to the face that knocked his eyeball out of his socket. Mom says it was dangling by the blood vessels. They sewed him up and he continued to play (though not in that game).

    • CharlieHodgeFan says:

      I played hockey for Ward 6 House League in Chateauguay, an asthmatic kid in nets flopping like a fish out of water for two years in the early 60s. I didn’t wear no stinkin’ mask. Nobody could lift the puck much either – straight sticks on outdoor golfball ice. They made us wear helmets when we were moved indoors to the smooth ice of the Arena, not long before curved sticks were allowed (Stan Mikita!). I was really pissed about those helmets. I was eight.

    • BJ says:

      Clint Benedict of the Maroons wore one in the late 20’s and a Japanese goalie wore one at the 1936 Olympics. Funny just today I was thinking of a shot I have in my archives of Jacques Plante being helped off the ice by Richard and Harvey after he took an Andy Bathgate shot in the face and later came back wearing a mask. I remember actually listening to the radio broadcast and the play by play announcer (I think Rene Lecavalier or Michel Normandin) and what an absolute amazing moment listening to that as a kid.

  44. HabinBurlington says:

    Non Hockey / Non Habs but must see video. Here is comedian Frank Caliendo (you may remember him from Jon Gruden skits on ESPN/ABC Football promo’s) reading Lebron’s latest letter to Ohio but in the voice of Morgan Freeman. It is brilliant!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj9Ei7FGQgg

  45. Ian Cobb says:

    What is this about.?
    Subban’s Mom is on the contract too?, is she going to play up front or on the point.?

  46. PK says:

    Oh, Bossy also performed as a clutch player at the international level. Here is a grainy video from the 1984 Canada Cup.
    Bossy and Coffey were involved on this OT goal against the Soviets …
    Coffey: another great player that we have talked about this morning.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76FCdvk4tPM

    >>>> Les Canadiens sont là
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

    “Une équipe de hockey sur glace de l’île de Mont-Royal va gagner la Coupe de Lord Stanley à 24 reprises dans le 20e siècle et trois fois au cours du 21e siècle.”

    – Nostradamus, 1552

  47. scavanau says:

    Are we there yet?

  48. Kooch7800 says:

    Bulldogs sign tough guy Jake Dowell:
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o-E_0CIoHGg

  49. PK says:

    If we are talking about the likes of Hawerchuk and Sundin, we should also remember the Trottier-Bossy duo.

    Trottier could play an extremely good two way game and Bossy was not a great skater but he could put the puck in the net … consistently and at opportune times.

    >>>> Les Canadiens sont là
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

    “Une équipe de hockey sur glace de l’île de Mont-Royal va gagner la Coupe de Lord Stanley à 24 reprises dans le 20e siècle et trois fois au cours du 21e siècle.”

    – Nostradamus, 1552

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      Bossy could’ve been a Hab. Sam Pollock discounted his chief scout’s advice. Claude Ruel desperately wanted him but Pollock thought he was “soft”. Took Mark Napier instead.

      —–
      Moving. Forward.

      • PK says:

        You are right Dipsy. Mind you, Napier did well with the Habs but he was no Mike Bossy.

        >>>> Les Canadiens sont là
        _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

        “Une équipe de hockey sur glace de l’île de Mont-Royal va gagner la Coupe de Lord Stanley à 24 reprises dans le 20e siècle et trois fois au cours du 21e siècle.”

        – Nostradamus, 1552

      • B says:

        14 teams passed on Bossy. I read about a scouting report that said “all he can do is score goals”. He did that very well.

        –Go Habs Go!–

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        Yea,…. and the Habs could have had Luc Robitaille drafted in the 9th Round 171 overall by the LA Kings in the 1984 draft.

        After the 3rd Round, the Habs chose Graeme Bonar, Lee Brodeur, and 5 others that never played a single NHL Game.

        Tag-You’re it ( Hindsight 20/20 game)

        • DipsyDoodler says:

          The difference is that Claude Ruel was adamant about Bossy. He was reportedly very upset they passed on him.

          So it’s not at all like missing out on a hidden gem.

          —–
          Moving. Forward.

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      PK

      Good thoughts

      Still believe Mike Bossy was one of the best – if not THE best goal scorer from the slot area.
      Too bad he had back issues that cut his career short

      There were his 9 season goal scored
      53-69-51-68-64-60-51-58-61 then ‘tailed off to 38 and retired.

      He played in the Philly Goon Time but luckily has Clarke Gillies to take care of the numbskulls and let him play for the most part.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Greatest goal scorer I ever saw (I didn’t watch the Rocket so don’t freak on me!), to me Bossy had that nose for the net and the shot to finish it. I would take Bossy over Brett Hull, as Bossy appeared to be a great teammate, leader etc….. Hull Jr. was perhaps that same nose for net and great shot, but Bossy was and is the Man in my books for greatest goalscorer I ever watched.

    • Chris says:

      Again, I only caught the tail end of his career and I despised the Islanders during their four Stanley Cups, but it was impossible to hate Bossy. Such an amazing player.

      I don’t know why, but I was never a big fan of Trottier, and I despised John Tonelli and Billy Smith with the heat of a thousand suns. Before the Flyers and Bruins (my current most despised teams), the Islanders reigned supreme as the team I wanted to lose in every game.

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        Had to like Mike Bossy, Denis Potvin (despite his usurping Larry Robinson’s crown as the NHL’s best defenceman, I always thought Denis Potvin’s New York location got him votes in the U.S.) and Clark Gillies on that team, and wish they were Canadiens.

        Did hate a lot of them, the Lorne Hennings and Butch Gorings, totally over-hyped, and the dirty Billy Smith. John Tonelli got so much press for basically clutching and grabbing and hitting players long after the puck was gone.

        I disliked the Islanders for stealing Cups away from the Canadiens, then having that dynasty that threatened the five Cups in a row record. Was very happy that the Oilers ended that. But I never hated the Islanders, nowhere near the way I did the Bruins, the Nordiques and the Flyers.

  50. DadidolizedDougHarvey says:

    “Subban’s mum on contract talks during appearance at Canadian Open”. With all due respect, I don’t care what Subban’s mother has to say about his contract negotiations. ( Yes, that is how I read it the first time.)

  51. HabinBurlington says:

    In talking about the great players, I think it is always a persons own feelings and their is no right or wrong answer. Personally I would rather have Larry Robinson than Ray Bourque, and I don’t really care about who had what teammates, or who won what cups. Obviously I am biased, I’m a Habs fan. But Robinson did absolutely everything you could ask of a Dman.

    Two players to me who stood out as unbelievable talents that often are overlooked are Gilbert Perrault (would have loved to see him as a Hab, in fact it was a crime he wasn’t) and Dale Hawerchuk.

    Perhaps they had average teammates, but they still were able to seperate themselves as star players in their era. The great players can do that regardless of their teammates.

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      I agree with everything except I would say it differently.

      I would say

      “Obviously I’m very knowledgeable, I’m a Habs fan.”

      —–
      Moving. Forward.

    • Chris says:

      I was a bit young for Perreault. I only remember his 80’s years, which were still good but obviously not a reflection of the player he was in the 1970’s.

      But the often overlooked player for me is Mats Sundin. Like Hawerchuk, he’s in the Hall of Fame. But man…his teams were just terrible in general, yet he had them playing above their heads. When Sakic and Sundin played together in Quebec, I always felt Sundin was the more dynamic player and the bigger threat, but that was obviously a small sample size.

      I would have been very curious to see what Sundin could do if given the chance to play with an elite team like Detroit, Colorado or Pittsburgh. His international play was simply dominant: he always seemed to stand out from a pretty impressive crowd at the Olympics.

      • DipsyDoodler says:

        Wow! It’s troll dipsy day today.

        Mats Sundin? Puh-leaze!

        (Just kidding. But I still think that the dour Swede with his 38 career playoff goals belongs in the Hall of Fame about as much as Linda Ronstadt belongs in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.)

        —–
        Moving. Forward.

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        Let’s analyze Mr. Sundin’s case. While he was an All-Star in his years in Toronto, he didn’t win a scoring championship or any major individual awards. He only scored over 100 points once, and did so as a Nordique, and never scored 50 goals, reaching 47 once and 41 on another occasion. He had limited success in the playoffs, contributing offensively but never taking his team deep into the playoffs.

        http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.ca/2011/10/does-sundin-deserve-to-have-his-leafs.html

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Just as i am bias in favour of Robinson I am bias in being against Sundin. Clark and Gilmour were the hearts and soul of a Leaf team that almost made it to the dance, Sundin never seemed to have that heart in the playoffs to carry that Leaf team.

          Looking at the roster of the 92-93 Leafs, that roster wasn’t very good either, but Gilmour and Clark had the hutzpah required to carry them.

          I may be way off base, but Sundin just never looked like he cared on the ice that much, and the way he ended his career with Toronto only fits with that, IMO.

          • Chris says:

            Sundin’s 1998-99 Leafs got to the 3rd round, just like the Gilmour-Andreychuk-Clark-Anderson Leafs of 1992-93.

            I’ve always wondered why so many hockey fans felt like Sundin went through the paces out there. I never saw that…Sundin played his rear end off for most of his career. But when your best teammates were Steve Thomas or a late-career Gary Roberts, you’re not going all that far.

    • on2ndthought says:

      yep

      “a cannonading drive”

  52. Chuck Kept Calm and Carey'd On ® says:

    Has PK signed? No? Carry on then…

    Hab fans want choice! Sign the petition to give us back our games!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds

  53. DipsyDoodler says:

    Bobby Orr was also overrated. True, until him no one had thought a defenceman could be an attacker. It hadn’t occurred to people. I’ll grant you that he was an innovator.

    It’s a bit like cubism.

    Braques invented it. Great idea. Well done Georges. But he was no Picasso.

    Orr was like the Georges Braque of attacking defencemen.

    —–
    Moving. Forward.

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      Bobby Orr was not the 1st attacker or a Dman that could control the tempo of the play/game
      That goes to Doug Harvey.
      Orr built on that with his great speed

      • frontenac1 says:

        Agreed Ron! Doug Harvey and Bobby Orr were the two best Defenceman that I ever saw play the game. No doubt about it. Saludos!

        • DipsyDoodler says:

          This was in the days before humans learned how to skate, in fairness.

          —–
          Moving. Forward.

        • Maritime Ronn says:

          Hey Front

          I was a little too young to see Harvey in his prime, but I saw Bobby Orr on several occasions (long story growing up)

          Bobby Orr is 7 years older than me.
          He became my favourite player because 1 day….when I flipped over his Topps hockey card, I found out we shared the same birthday.

          Maybe the younger folks don’t understand – and it was another era, but a Dman that wins the Art Ross?
          Not once, but twice?

          69-70: 33 goals-120 pts
          74-75: 46 goals-135 pts.

          • New says:

            And to understand what could have been. Orr was 26 in 1975, and went on to play 36 more games over the next four years. As with Crosby the rules were interpreted differently on fouls against Orr. He was supposed to suck it up, not complain, and take it. Players that good enrage fans and opponents. Sad.

    • Forum Dog says:

      Bobby Orr was overrated? Bourque couldn’t tie Robinson’s skates? Sorry, I hate the Bruins as much as you, but there is no way either of those statements have any merit whatsoever.

      Bobby Orr is/was perhaps the most game dynamic defencemen in NHL history. We get an overdose because of Coaches Corner, but that does not diminish his impact on the game. I don’t think any defencemen has ever been as dominant, before or since.

      If you sat Bourque and Robinson together in a room, I would say they probably have huge mutual respect for one another. No skate tying going on there. They are different players from different generations who both happened to be franchise cornerstones.

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        Orr changed the game

        • Chris says:

          Truth be told, I think Robinson did too. He was an inspiration for a new breed of defenceman.

          Orr dominated offensively and was a solid positional defender, but Robinson was dominant in every area of the game. He put up huge points by any other standard than that set by Orr, but he also served as a defensive stalwart and his physical presence was key to dethroning the thuggery of the 1970’s Philadelphia Flyers.

          Orr was the inspiration for future generations of puck-moving defencemen, players like Paul Coffey, Phil Housley, Brian Leetch, Nicklas Lidstrom, Mike Green, Erik Karlsson, Drew Doughty, and P.K. Subban.

          Robinson’s combination of size, skill, and toughness translates well to players like Chris Pronger, Shea Weber, and Zdeno Chara.

          Orr was flashier and as such probably had a greater influence. But Robinson showed that big defencemen could also dream to become dominant offensive players, as opposed to settling for becoming defensive stalwarts and/or tough guys.

    • CharlieHodgeFan says:

      I don’t know. It is always subjective, and I was young when Orr played. He was a Bruin, but taberslack, he was good. He was good on a good team, and he could still pick them up by the scruff of the neck and make things happen. The knees, the tragic knees…
      Orr and Robinson were my favourites to watch, even if Orr hurt the Habs sometimes. I really don’t think he is over-rated in the history of hockey. I think Robinson is under-rated, however, because his team was so good.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Just finished Stephen Brunt’s “Searching for Bobby Orr”, and while Doug Harvey gets a mention, he makes a case for Eddie Shore as the true originator of the offensive defenceman, and that Bobby Orr was the natural heir to his legacy in Boston. The distinction made was that Eddie Shore would attack the net and try to score, while Doug Harvey was more of a quarterback/point guard, who would skate and move the puck and feed his teammates but had a different style than the Bruins Hall of Famer.

  54. John Q Public says:

    Would anyone on the current team wrestle a bear ?

  55. Max_a_million says:

    Scientific studies show people are most happy at $80,000

    I guess it’s the perfect balance of enough money, not too much stress, … that’s the number that makes people most happy to make.

  56. Chris says:

    Regarding the “generational” discussion: I think there can be more than one generational player at a particular position at any given time.

    For example, the 1970’s saw at least two generational defencemen: Bobby Orr was one of the best skaters the game has ever seen and brought a level of offence that the game had not seen before, while Larry Robinson combined everything: power, skating, and toughness. You could make an argument that Denis Potvin was pretty close to that level as well, although his best years came after Orr retired.

    In the 1980’s, I would argue that there were also two generational talents. Ray Bourque could do everything: skate, dominate defensively and dominate offensively. He was the best all-rounder at the position. But you also had Paul Coffey, a worthy heir to Orr’s legacy, a dominant skater whose offensive ability was off the charts. Many would like to say that Coffey was a product of the Oilers dynasty, but that ignores the big numbers he put up with Pittsburgh and Detroit.

    The generational label is somewhat subjective. I think most agree that Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux were both generational talents. But what about Steve Yzerman? Mark Messier? Peter Stastny? Ron Francis? Dale Hawerchuk? Denis Savard?

    Somewhere, we all draw a line between a generational star and a Hall-of-Famer. But the line is not set in stone, nor is it objective. It is in the eye of the beholder. From the 1980’s, I would certainly include Yzerman and Messier, for different reasons, in that generational group of centres, but Stastny, Francis, Hawerchuk and Savard were a step below.

    In the 1990’s, you could make an argument for Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg, Sergei Fedorov and Eric Lindros. Some would find Lindros’ inclusion in that list tough to swallow, given that he is not a lock to even make the Hall of Fame. But I look at it like this: a generational player could be a guy that dominates the league or changes the way the game is played. Lindros was dominant for a short-time period, but more importantly, he changed the landscape for the centre position. Post-Lindros, the obsession among fans and executives has been on big, strong power-forward centres, clones of Lindros at his peak. I am sure there were power-forward centres before Lindros (Messier was one), but Lindros’ success and dominance changed the landscape. That being said, the only guy I would give the generational label to on that list is Sakic…Forsberg and Lindros miss out due to injuries, while Fedorov was a step below where he needed to be.

    Today, I would argue that Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Datsyuk and Toews are your generational centres. I have no problem including 5 guys in that list, because they are all head-and-shoulders above their peers. Datsyuk and Toews are dominant two-way centres that can kill you at both ends of the rink, while Crosby, Malkin and Stamkos have other-worldly talent. Getzlaf could get there, while Thornton and Sedin are just a step below.

    • Cal says:

      I have to disagree with you on Lindros. Beliveau was the first and he was a train that other teams couldn’t stop from ’53 to ’71.
      Lindros, on the other hand, never learned to keep his head up. He got popped so many times because he never learned that his career was shortened. Including Lindros as a “generational” because some media hack called him the “Next One”‘ does not compute.

      • Chris says:

        I never liked the guy, but Lindros was full value when he was healthy. Unfortunately, he couldn’t stay healthy. It didn’t help that playing in the same division as one of the most egregious head-hunters in the history of the sport and being managed by one of the most questionable medical staffs in the history of the sport.

        • Cal says:

          I never cared for him either, but I will say one thing. He was so over-rated he couldn’t live up to the hype. Trying to be the tough guy on the ice cost him so many concussions that Joey Elias did his impersonation of the two Lindros brothers talking at the dinner table. “I like soup.”

          • Un Canadien errant says:

            Disliked him as a person, didn’t like the sneering disdain he had for the Québec Nordiques, that cut too close to the bone for a young French Canadian guy. Never really wanted him to succeed, to win Stanley Cups, obviously, over and above the fact that he was a Flyer.

            Having said that, he was for three or four years basically unstoppable, the player who was the leading conversation topic in the NHL. You had to give him that.

            The fact that his career was cut short by injuries does not tarnish his legacy for me, the off-ice controversies did.

          • Chris says:

            I already had that disdain for Lindros after the OHL controversies…he refused to go to Sault Ste. Marie, forcing them to trade him to Oshawa. That being said, this is another lasting legacy of Eric Lindros as a player. Lindros was widely reviled for refusing to play for all but a few teams, but that has subsequently become the norm…the top players now force teams to trade their rights quite frequently so that they can play in the top markets. Max Domi was the most recent example I can think of in the OHL…he wouldn’t even play in Kingston for his father’s good friend Doug Gilmour, forcing the Frontenacs to trade him to London.

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      Jagr

      • Chris says:

        I was limiting myself to centres. In the 1990’s, you would have to look at all three of Jagr, Bure and Selanne. Kariya could very well have been there too were it not for the concussions. Shanahan might be in there as well.

        In the 1980’s, you would probably have Brett Hull, Jari Kurri, and Luc Robitaille.

        In the 2000’s, Ovechkin is definitely there.

        Today, Patrick Kane probably has the best shot of the wingers.

    • CharlieHodgeFan says:

      We like to look at knees, shoulders, ankles, anything but brains until they are concussed. I’d argue that a pre-concussion brain really matters in hockey, as in most everything else. Lindros never struck me as intelligent enough to reach his physical potential. It sounds cruel, but we will happily discuss what life would be like if Brendan Gallagher were 6’5.
      The great players may have demons like Doug Harvey did, but they still are intelligent out on the ice. They learn fast and adjust.

  57. DipsyDoodler says:

    Ray Bourque was not fit to tie Larry Robinson’s skates.

    Had to get Patrick Roy to win him a cup.

    There I said it.

    —–
    Moving. Forward.

    • Cal says:

      And he dipsydoodles himself into a corner and bravely faces the onslaught to come. Too late, he realizes this isn’t a Gooin site.

    • Chris says:

      We’re comparing the Bruins of Ray Bourque’s era to the Canadiens of Larry Robinson’s era and using that against Bourque? Sorry…not buying it.

      Hall of Fame teammates of Larry Robinson: Ken Dryden, Guy Lafleur, Yvan Cournoyer, Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe, Steve Shutt, Jacques Lemaire, Bob Gainey and Scotty Bowman (coach). Early career HHOF teammates included Frank Mahovlich and Jacques Laperriere, while late career HHOF teammate was Patrick Roy.

      Hall of Fame teammates of Ray Bourque in Boston: Cam Neely and Adam Oates. Early career HHOF teammate was Brad Park.

      I think that is pretty compelling evidence that we’re comparing apples and oranges.

      • DipsyDoodler says:

        I was not comparing Bourque’s teammates to Robinson’s teammates.

        —–
        Moving. Forward.

        • Paz says:

          But you need to compare teammates because hockey is a team sport.

          Robinson was asked to play a certain way because he had Savard and Lapointe along for the ride.

          Bourque carried the Bruins defence alone. Much tougher assignment.

        • Chris says:

          Nope, but you used Stanley Cups as the metric. Put Larry Robinson on Boston in the 1970’s and see how many Cups he wins having to go up against the Habs dynasty instead of enjoying the benefits of playing beside them.

          Bourque spent the majority of his career on a decent, but never great, Boston Bruins team. His career was basically wasted.

          • DipsyDoodler says:

            I actually didn’t use Stanley Cups as a metric. I said Bourque had to get his arch enemy Patrick Roy to win him a cup. He then paraded the cup around Boston.

            I do agree that playing almost your entire career in the Boston Gardens is a waste.

            —–
            Moving. Forward.

          • CharlieHodgeFan says:

            Dipsy doodler – you aren’t discussing seriously. I’d have taken Bourque as a Hab any day. He was brilliant. He should have played here, but even without that, he earned the respect of every eye that paid attention to what he was doing out there.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      I’ll concur with the statement that he coat-tailed Patrick Roy and Joe Sakic to a meaningless retirement tour Cup.

      I can’t go along with the statement that he doesn’t compare to Larry, and certainly not that he’s not worthy of being in the same conversation. I always admired how he never gave up when he had to team up with the Nevin Markwarts and Terry O’Reillys, just kept fighting and playing 25-30 minutes a game, as he got hammered by Claude Lemieux and Dave Maley and Ed Ronan.

      Always wished he was on our team.

      • Cal says:

        You can’t call Bourque’s Cup win “meaningless”. Ask him about it. I have a sneaky feeling he’s proud of that accomplishment. Oh, and ask any one of the greats like Perreault and Marcel Dionne and Brad Park about what a Cup win would have meant to them.

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          I can’t stand talking heads talking about how he “finally got his ring”, for so many reasons. If winning a Stanley Cup is a team accomplishment, you should do it with your guys, not as a rented mercenary, as an add-on. And the ring motif is such a basketball or football motif, players I’m sure appreciate the ring, but what they want is to hold the Stanley Cup aloft. That’s the goal, not jewelry.

          And yeah, the whole thing about bringing the Cup back to Boston was such a joke.

          I’ll grant you this Cal: I can’t be objective about the Bruins.

          • Cal says:

            Can’t say I blame you on the Bruins front.
            On the subject of mercs, Butch Goring to the Islanders in 1980. Helped launch their dynasty years. It may be a team sport, but individuals do matter a whole lot.

      • Chris says:

        I HATE the argument that Bourque coat-tailed Patrick Roy and Joe Sakic to a meaningless Stanley Cup victory. It is utter nonsense.

        Bourque was traded to the Avalance in 1999-2000, and then won the Stanley Cup after re-signing in 2000-2001.

        In that “coat-tail” season, Bourque finished 4th among league defencemen in points, behind only fellow Hall of Famers Brian Leetch and Nicklas Lidstrom and tied with Hall of Famer Rob Blake (who played fewer games). Bourque was 5th among defencemen with a +25 rating. He was 6th in PP points. He was 8th in average ice time per game, despite being 40 years old.

        He partnered with Adam Foote on the first wave of the Avalanche penalty killing unit, finishing 16th among all players in the NHL in short-handed time on ice. He partnered Rob Blake on the first wave of the power play, finishing 20th among all NHL players in power play time on ice.

        So you’ve got a bona fide #1 defenceman, a guy who anchored the 3rd best power play in the NHL while also playing heavy penalty kill minutes, and put up huge points for a defenceman.

        If that’s “coat-tailing” it to a Stanley Cup, I’d hate to have to see what he would need to do to earn it.

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          If we look at “his” Stanley Cup and grade it on a spectrum, with maybe LeBron James stacking himself an All-Star team in Miami, and having an unseemly launch party-boastfest that will be criticized forever more (“Not two, not three, not four, not five,…”) at one end of the scale, and John Elway’s two Super Bowl wins coming at the very end of his long, frustrating, fruitful career as a Bronco at the other end, I put Ray’s Cup much closer to the LeBron end.

          If we can come up with a better verb than coattail, I’m willing to listen, but in my prejudiced view, I’m comfortable with that term. Phrases like ‘stacking the deck’ spring to mind, but I can’t come up with le mot juste.

          Even as kids, we knew that sports depend on fair competition to be worth anything. I remember playing lunchtime soccer in Grade 6, we played Grade 6 against the entire rest of the school, Grades 1-5, a veritable herd of little tykes and ankle biters sweeping across the field, it was almost a fair fight.

          But really, the way to choose up teams is to use I go-you go. I pick first, then you, then me again, until we get to the last two, and I take my kid brother and you take the fat kid, and we put them both in nets. And that ensured that the game would be fun and somewhat fair. You never let the three or four best players play together, against a lesser team, except in rare circumstances. That’s what cheapens the legacy of LeBron and Raymond Bourque.

  58. habs-hampton says:

    I need a new Habs sweater. I can’t decide between #11 and #76. I considered getting #26 last year, but I’m glad I didn’t.

    Which do you think will be the better long term investment?

  59. Maritime Ronn says:

    While we chat up the PK imminent contract, or how far (not if) the Habs will go in the playoffs, poor Leaf Nation is embarrassed again.

    Even the recently passed away show their scorn.

    From The Toronto Star:
    “A Hamilton man’s last wish was for the Toronto Maple Leafs to be the pallbearers at his funeral “so they could let him down one last time.”
    Terrance “Terry” Siebert died this week at 57, according to his death notice published Thursday in the Hamilton Spectator.
    —————
    Wasn’t quite sure if this was some kind of misplaced April Fool’s joke, but lo and behold, it is as they say:

    http://www.lifenews.ca/announcement/4647341-siebert-terrance-w-terry-

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      The first time I heard that one mullets were just coming into fashion, but it was a Cubs fan. Or maybe Cleveland Browns.

      —–
      Moving. Forward.

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        You’re right about the Cleveland fan, Dipsy

        “A Cleveland man and lifelong Browns fan made the same request in The Columbus Dispatch last year and earlier this summer a Minnesota man asked that the Vikings carry his coffin in the Pioneer Press.”

      • Rugger says:

        Actually, it is lifted from the late Steve Goodman’s song “the dying cub fan’s last request”. Probably early to mid 1970’s. He was a big Cubs fan. edit: I think it was the cubs pitching staff he wanted for bearers.

  60. Un Canadien errant says:

    Okay, time for a topic du jour, for the trial balloon that must be in turn pun-ped up or pun-ctured. Like Zenon Konopka two summers ago.

    My friend Fecklund says the Canadiens and Canucks are the leaders in the Dustin Penner sweepstakes. He just attended his agent’s cousin’s wedding, and apparently it all hinges on the contract containing a second year and no-trade clauses.

    The Canucks want depth in their forward group and more size, and potentially someone who can play right wing with the Sedin brothers, in case Alex Burrows shatters his eyebrow or tears his follicles in training camp.

    The Canadiens need some help at right wing, not being satisfied with the potential candidates like Jiri Sekac, Jacob de la Rose or Sven Andrighetto. Pro scout Bjarn McGoo has been hyping Dustin Penner as a player who could replace the production of George Parros and Erik Cole.

    Apparently he’s a changed player, very motivated by his last season, and has embarked on a training regimen combining UFC-style workouts with Zoomba, and an 80’s style triathlete diet consisting of 70% complex carbs, 15% fats and 15% protein, with most of the carb-loading occurring at a big meal early during the day.

    ———————————————————————–
    It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  61. Paz says:

    From Subban’s point of view

    1) I’m not worried about career threatening injuries, I’ve been relatively healthy and I take very few hits on the ice
    2) I know the majority of teams would want me if I go UFA, driving up my salary
    3) I know I will get around 7 or 7,5 from an arbitrator

    So why would I sign long term for 6, 6.5, 7, 7.5 or even 8 million?

    Where is Subban’s incentive to sign long term and leave millions on the table?

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      One obvious incentive is that if you sign for a bit less your team can get you better players to play with.

      Another bit of the equation is that $64M and $72M aren’t hugely different in terms of life impact. Psychologists who study this might even tell you they are equivalent in terms of how happy you’ll be.

      —–
      Moving. Forward.

  62. John Q Public says:

    How to pluck a bird.

  63. on2ndthought says:

    @twilight hours

    I don’t fuss with all this. I just scour with table salt, slick another layer of fat or oil, heat on the stovetopuntil it smokes and wipe with paper towel (quickly)
    it is non-stick until you are browning meat, then repeat.

    http://www.instructables.com/id/Iron-Skillet-Seasoning-Modification/step7/Fire-It-Up/

    http://sherylcanter.com/wordpress/2010/01/a-science-based-technique-for-seasoning-cast-iron/

    “a cannonading drive”

  64. Lafleurguy says:

    What would go well with the fish.

  65. third generation haber says:

    2014-15 Hamilton Bulldogs (probably):

    Thomas/ de la Rose/ Andrighetto
    Carr/ Hudon/ Holland
    Bozon/ Hensick/ Dumont
    Cisp/ Nevins/ Fournier

    Pateryn/ Ellis/ Dietz/ Thrower/ Driewiskie/ Bennet/ Makowski/ Shea

    McDonald/ Condon

    This young team seems to have a lack of natural centers. On top of this, Malhotra may get injured at some point. Ryan White, still unsigned, has stated that he’d be willing to take a 2 way deal.

    I think bringing back White would help the Dogs a lot and provide us with some 4th line center depth. Thoughts???

    j.p. murray

    • Cal says:

      White is done with the Habs. He will have to toil in the AHL or Europe.

    • CharlieHodgeFan says:

      A lot of people here have a high opinion of White as a hockey player, but indications are the GMs of the NHL don`t see it that way. Time to move on and try new options.

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        I think we hope for potential, and like what he brings/brought currently, fire, toughness, team spirit.

        As a Calgary Hitmen, he was a go-to player for his coaches, a do-it-all type who’d be on the ice in all situations and for crucial faceoffs. I think he got to the NHL by being a scrappy guy, and he might have pigeon-holed himself so early in his career as an energy type.

        Then again, it’s hard to argue for him with his very low goal totals year after year.

  66. John Q Public says:

    So is it a clockwise or a counter clockwise swirl ?

  67. Maritime Ronn says:

    Subban contract

    The following is a list of the Top 50 Dman Cap Hits for next year that may determine what Subban’s contract may look like.
    (there may be some gasps and surely massive disagreement)
    :-)

    http://www.capgeek.com/leaders/?season=2014&type=CAP_HIT&position=D&limit=50

    The highest is Shea Weber – an NHL, proven Top 3 Premier Dman with the full package.
    His top Dman Cap Hit is…$7.85M (somewhat caused by the Philly Offer Sheet)

    When trying to determine Subban’s worth today and potential future, he has to be compared to a similar talent who had RFA years left in his contract and was a recent signing…and not players that were potential UFAs (Letang-Phaneuf/very bad contract) or signed bad contracts pre 2013 CBA where there were no term limits and Cap Circumvention ( Brian Campbell)

    Perhaps the closest comparable is Alex Pietrangelo.
    The Blues bought 3-4 RFA years with a 2013/ 7 year extension of $49.5M.
    Cap Hit of $6.5M per year.

    The on-ice performance comparables last season:

    Pietrangelo:
    8G/51 Pts. + Plus 20. 25:21/game.
    1st Unit PP and PK – finished 5th in Norris Trophy voting.
    Played full time at Olympics

    Subban:
    10G/53 Pts. – Minus 4. 24:36/Game
    1st Unit PP and 6th highest Habs Dman for minutes played on the PK last year – finished tied for 14th in Norris voting.
    Named to Olympic team-did not dress for many games.

    The deal should look like this:
    6 year contract: $7.5M Cap Hit
    The first 2 years $6.5M (+ – $200K)
    Next 2 years: ( $7M-$7.5M)
    Last 2 years: ( $ $8M-$ 8.5M)

    If GMMB presents this case to Don Meehan, how does Meehan justify a bigger contract?
    A projected Cap increase would not justify a mega million increase.

    If a more and larger dollar contract is warranted, please lay out the logic and proper performance comparables that had 2-3 years of RFA status left along with recent last year performance.

    Yes, PK won a points driven, asterisk 48 game Norris where no inter-Conference games were played, but has yet to be a consistent NHL Top 10.

    • Forum Dog says:

      Good, well thought out post. The only thing I would say is that the bridge contract and a growing cap will play into the negotiation. Pietrangelo signed a deal that paid him (only) $5M in those years that PK was making under $3M. I do believe that some of that money will get negotiated back. I also think that Meehan knows the cap is trending up and will want to get that percentage rolled into something long-term.

      Taken together, I don’t think the $6.5M hit on Pietrangelo is at all likely. Even $7M will be a team friendly contract. Maybe $7.5 will get it done (Suter/Letang type money), but they will also try to sell the idea that PK is more dynamic and has more star-power (league-wide) than either of them. I still think it will be between $7.5 and $8M when it’s all said and done, but will be pleasantly surprised if it’s something less…

    • Cal says:

      Firstly, Weber’s hit of $7.857mil is utter bull crap. In the next 4 seasons, Weber will collect signing bonuses worth $42mill. His “salary” will be 1 $mill. Every July 1st, Weber cashes in.
      In reality,his cap hit should be $13mil over the next 4 years.

      Even taking into account that Weber is supposed to be the league’s best Dman, I don’t think he’s worth more than $8mil with today’s cap.
      PK will earn a probable $76 mil over the next 8 seasons. Many will bitch and moan about how PK isn’t worth it, etc, but this is the market and Montreal will have to pay to keep him. Unfortunately, MB doesn’t have the luxury of the cap circumvention that Philly used to eff over the Predators.

      A little summer tune to calm us all down: http://calshabsongparodies.weebly.com

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        Cal

        I hear where you are coming from, yet we have to deal with the post 2013 CBA and its details.

        Going backwards puts things out of perspective.

        Ex:
        In !997-97 Joe Sakic had earnings of $16.45M – impossible today
        In 1998-99 Sergei Fedorov earned $14.5M.

        • Cal says:

          Just saying that Weber’s cap hit is artificially lowered by cap circumvention that is no longer allowed.
          Looking at those numbers for both Sakic and Federov makes you think that despite how good those players were, they certainly were overpaid and wouldn’t get anywhere near that much in a salary capped league.

    • Loop_Garoo says:

      I don’t think there is any chance that Subban signs for anything less than the highest cap hit for defencemen. The problem with comparing older contracts is that the comparison becomes completely irrelevant as soon as the season ends, the cap changes, a player gets older etc. Weber is making close to 14 million this year, it is only the lenth of the contract that brings the cap hit down, and this type of thing can no longer be done to the same extent under the new collective agreement. Contracts such as those signed by Doughty and Karlson are way to old to be of any comparative value, and as noted elsewhere, Subban signed a bridge contract for some of the years those guys signed for.

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        hi loop
        That’s why the Pietrangelo is almost the closest comparable
        Signed in the new CBA era and bought RFA years.
        We’ll see
        Speculation is fun…and just cannot see PK being the highest Cap Hit-pay in the NHL for the next 2 years.
        On-ice comparables do not warrant that.

    • Phil C says:

      Weber’s contract is the closest comparable as it included only 1 RFA year, while Subban’s includes 2. Further complicating the comparable is that Weber’s contract is 14 years long and has three years tagged on the end at $1M that are clearly intended to lower the AAV. Without those three years, Weber is closer to $9.7M per year. As this option is no longer available to Subban, it would not surprise me to see him asking for more the Weber’s $7.8M/year.

      I would say your numbers are definitely in the ball park, but with an adjustment for the shorter contract and higher cap.

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      Agreed that Pietrangelo’s contract is a good starting point. However, I think it includes more RFA years than Subban’s will, correct? RFA years are worth about half of the UFA years, roughly speaking.

      As far as PK not being a consistent top ten, whatever that means, I disagree. Unless you mean by consistent top ten that a player is dominant every game he plays, in which case no one, not even Weber or Keith, is a “consistent top ten”.

      Also, Alex Pietrangelo has never had a playoff series like PK did against Boston – might never have one in fact.

      —–
      Moving. Forward.

  68. DipsyDoodler says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but if Kovy was the last Hab as talented as PK, then doesn’t that make PK a once in a generation talent?

    —–
    Moving. Forward.

    • Marc10 says:

      As an impact player, he’s in Chelios’ league. You only have to look at what he does on the ice to see just how dominant he can be. (I don’t know that he’ll ever be as complete, but he’s definitely as talented).

      Charisma wise, he’s in Lafleur’s ballpark. That’s saying something. He’s going to be the guy on every poster for years to come… and if we win a cup thanks to PK, I can’t imagine he’ll ever pay for a meal in the city again.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      76 mill for 76 months (a million a month).

      Gainey got Kovalev for Balej. Hmm….come to think of it, Gainey got Subbie for a second-round pick.

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      A ” once in a generation” player or Dman are the following:
      Doug Harvey – 6 Norris Trophies
      Bobby Orr – 8 Norris Trophies
      Ray Bourque – 5 Norris Trophies
      Niklas Lindstrom – 7 Norris Trophies

      Then you have some outstanding Tier II guys like:
      Denis Potvin – Chelios – Coffey – 3 Norris Trophies each, and maybe a guy like Larry Robinson with 2.

    • CharlieHodgeFan says:

      The moment Kovalev`s name comes up, the flaw appears. He scored a mighty 23, 18, 35 and 26 goals for the Habs. One good season. We as fans were desperate for talent after some very lousy teams, and Kovalev, a second tier scorer, looked like a star to those who hadn’t seen stars. Yes, he had skills when he bothered to show them, but he was no superstar. If he’s your baseline, you’re screwed.

      Subban is caught in the same optic. He is not a top six defenceman in the league. He could be, but it has taken a little extra time for him to get perspective on his role. He has played some very immature, and early on, self-centered hockey out there, a la Kovalev. He has a Norris from a short season, but he followed it with a very un-Norris like full season. To be the player a lot of fans want him to be, he has to put together a series of great seasons.
      Larry Robinson, Doug Harvey, Guy Lapointe, Serge Savard – these guys all managed that. They were generational defencemen. Subban has not achieved that.

      I hope he takes under 7.5 (he’ll be my favourite Hab if he does) and gets to work – not in a gym for publicity clips so we can all admire his strength, but on the ice. I don’t care if he eats entire deer, fur, antlers and all, for protein, and then lifts friggin’ trains. Before I anoint him a d-man for a generation, he has to double his goal and assist totals and become a consistent force on defence. I want the guy to go there – I want the team to win.
      So far, he is a strong weapon in the Canadiens arsenal, with the potential to become a consistent top 12 defenceman in the league. That would be useful. If he peaks higher than he has shown with maturity and improved on ice judgement (he should with age and experience), I can see him as a legitmate Olympic team regular for Canada.

      That’s what we could get. We don’t need a player for a generation. This generation needs a team that is a perennial challenger for the Cup, and that wins one as a team. I wouldn’t mind if they won four or five. That’s how we’ll remember Subban, as part of a team for a generation, as many of us remember the great, balanced teams of the 70s. Otherwise, we are getting caught up and falling in pucklove with one man, and using that to substitute for the team in a team game.

  69. Habfan10912 says:

    $650 million for a new arena in a City where there aren’t enough Firefighters and Police Officers to protect it’s citizens. Makes perfect sense to me. (Insert sarcasm icon)

    http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2014-07-20/detroit-red-wings-arena-joe-louis-arena-mike-ilitch-tigers-lions

  70. Habfan10912 says:

    Good morning friends. I dislike the cap management part of sports but realize it is here to stay. I rely on our resident CAP experts like Ronn, Paz. Habfab among others to keep me informed as I’m just too bored with the whole thing to give it much effort on my own. However, doesn’t it appear that Bergevin “gets it” and perhaps Sather doesn’t?

    Eller is a recent example of what I think is really good cap management. Looking at Patches at $4.5 and Eller now at $3.5 you have to like those two contracts moving forward especially given the Rangers $5 for Brassard.

    It will be interesting to see where PK signs fits in but the Eller and Patches contracts have afforded the team plenty of room to get the deal done.

    CHeers.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Hiya Gentleman J. Hope you hooked some tasty ones (unless you prefer to catch and release).

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      Hi Jim

      Sather is in a market that always needs Stars to compete for the entertainment dollar and some media attention.
      Manhattan is a tough market for that as you well know being so close.

      He has done some doozies in the past, but….the Ryan McDonagh contract he signed last year looks like a complete steal.(after he stole him from the Habs)
      7 years/$28M- Cap Hit of only $4.7M.

      McDonagh finished 8th in the Norris Trophy voting, and had an excellent playoff run with 17 points in 25 games.

  71. petefleet says:

    Anyone know when the individual tix will be available on the Habs website? It’s usaully on the site but I can’t find it.

    “Being on the PP doesn’t make you an offensive threat anymore than standing in a garage makes you a car.”
    Henry Ford

    “You can’t believe everything you read on the internet”.
    Abraham Lincoln

    ***Go Habs Go***


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