Habs’ Subban expects arbitrator to decide on his contract

The Canadiens and restricted free-agent defenceman P.K. Subban, unable to reach a contract agreement, went into a salary-arbitration hearing at 9 a.m. Friday in Toronto. The hearing wrapped up at 1 p.m.

Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin declined to comment to reporters in Toronto after the hearing ended, stating simply: “I have nothing to say.”

Subban’s agent, Don Meehan, told Sportsnet that there are no plans to continue negotiating a long-term deal for the defenceman before the arbitrator’s decision is made.

On Wednesday, the Canadiens submitted a one-year offer of $5.25 million, while Subban and his agent asked for $8.5 million. The two sides were unable to reach a deal before Friday’s hearing.

Arbitrator Elizabeth Neumeier of Boston can choose one of the two salary figures, but can also decide on a number anywhere between the two. Neumeir’s decision must be made by Sunday afternoon and the two sides are free to continue negotiations before then.

After the hearing ended, Subban told Sportsnet’s Chris Johnston the arbitrator will decide his contract for next season, saying: “We have to live with those decisions.”

Subban added: “It’s been an educational process for me.”

He also told The Canadian Press: “There’s dialogue and discussion and decisions were made today in relations to both of our positions and ultimately we have to live with those decisions and move on from here. I know that obviously the arbitration process is over. It is in the hands of the arbitrator now.”

The 25-year-old Subban, who won the Norris Trophy two seasons ago as the NHL’s top defenceman, earned $3.75 million last season when he posted 10-43-53 totals in 82 regular-season games and had 5-9-14 totals in 17 playoff games.

“At the end of the day, it’s been an educational process for me, and I’ll continue to say that because it has been,” Subban told reporters in Toronto. “I’ve learned a lot. Like I said, I’m just excited now to continue to move forward, and that’s all you can do from here is just move forward, move on and get ready for the season.”

When asked if he would still be open to negotiating a long-term deal with the Canadiens, Subban said: “I think that’s kind of a discussion for a later date. It’s not a discussion for today, obviously.”

Tweeted TSN’s Bob McKenzie after the arbitration hearing ended: “My uneducated opinion from afar: MTL likes, maybe really likes, Subban but doesn’t LOVE him. And you have to LOVE someone at 8 x $8-9M+ per.”

In a later tweet, McKenzie added: “More importantly, I guess, IF Subban doesn’t feel the love from MTL, how eager is he to re-up there for eight years? Gonna be interesting.”

(Photo by Peter McCabe/The Gazette)

Habs, Subban wait for arbitrator’s ruling, montrealgazette.com

Subban’s feel-good story takes ugly turn with Habs, by The Gazette’s Pat Hickey

Hockey is a family affair for Subbans,  by The Gazette’s Brenda Branswell

Habs fans touched by boy with meningitis, by The Gazette’s Stu Cowan

Habs’ salary-cap chart, capgeek.com

Will Subban make Top-10 list of highest-paid NHLers? Stu on Sports blog

1,757 Comments

  1. Psycho29 says:

    Retweeted by Bob McKenzie

    Canadiens Montréal‏@CanadiensMTL·1 min ·

    Canadiens agree to terms on an 8-year contract with defenseman

  2. red13am says:

    Canadiens agree to terms on an 8-year contract with defenseman @PKSubban1. DETAILS -> http://goha.bs/1rWo57e

    YEAH

  3. habs-fan-84 says:

    DEAL IS DONE!!!!!
    There is a God!

  4. sprague cleghorn says:

    OFFICIAL!!!@!!

    Canadiens Montréal ‏@CanadiensMTL 1m

    Canadiens agree to terms on an 8-year contract with defenseman @PKSubban1. DETAILS -> http://goha.bs/1rWo57e

    … ‘ow could we forget that?

  5. Haberoooo13 says:

    It’s official…8 years

    Lafleur coming out rather gingerly…

  6. Haberoooo13 says:

    Over/Under 8 years?
    Over/Under 8.5 Average?

    Lafleur coming out rather gingerly…

    • Stevie.Ray says:

      Have to think MB was the one that gave in. PK had all the leverage

      • mark-ID says:

        I’m thinking slightly under 8.5 for 8 years. I think PK had just as much pressure as MB had on this one. I genuinely think PK wanted to stay here….just the money had to right for him. None of this 7mi which was reported by Wilde.

        We shall see. Nonetheless it is a relief.

        “I think I may have found a way for us to get Griffey and Bonds, and we really won’t have to give up much” -Costanza

  7. Psycho29 says:

    Bob McKenzie‏@TSNBobMcKenzie· 5 mins

    A settlement between PK Subban and MTL is imminent. New deal coming.

  8. sprague cleghorn says:

    Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 1m

    A settlement between PK Subban and MTL is imminent. New deal coming.

    … ‘ow could we forget that?

  9. Stevie.Ray says:

    @TSNBobMcKenzie: A settlement between PK Subban and MTL is imminent. New deal coming.

    I assume that it’s the arbitrators decision.

    Edit: it appears it may not be. Contain your excitement for now :D

  10. crane says:

    So P.K. pretty much gone,is Franson and Kadri fair deal.
    too much /not enough

  11. Habitforming says:

    Geez

    reading some of the clowns on here today talking about contract comparables from up to 4 years ago, or that PK is worth less than Markov makes me glad I avoided the site yesterday.

    I think I’ll come back in September when most of these types have faded out.

  12. Bim says:

    Current relationship on both sides is never good after arbitration. Even if PK is awarded 8 mil or whatever or even if the club is awarded the 5 mil and change neither side will trust each other. I would say PK is as good as gone after the next year or two. What a farce this is. Every club in this league would love to have this guy and everybody knows these types of stud defensemen don’t come along all the time. MB blew this one big time. First McDonaugh then PK. What to the Habs have against defensemen anyway? I would say that this move ranks right up there with Gainey’s trade for Gomez..ya Gomez who could forget. I am totally disillusioned by all of this. Good luck this year Habs I have a feeling its not going to be pretty.

    • joeybarrie says:

      Ill tell you something for nothing….
      Boston, New York, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA, San Jose, Anaheim, etc, etc…..
      Wouldnt be giving PK Subban an 8.5 to 9 million dollar a year contract if it were them in our shoes.
      Maybe the Islanders. Maybe Florida. Maybe Columbus or Winnipeg.

      And seriously???? Going to arbitration is right up there with trading away a def prospect that is currently at PKs level for what we got out of Gomez????
      Disillusioned is right.

  13. CharlieHodgeFan says:

    Market value is an interesting idea.
    The previous owner of my house hired an interior decorator sometime in the seventies, and he had it done up as the coolest hippy love pad in Montreal. When he decided to sell 10 years ago, his unchanged decor really mattered to him. He set the price accordingly. He couldn’t sell it. He had to respond to market value, and with no offers, dropped it a little. It still didn’t sell. I wandered into it, saw the dated decor and the basic strengths of the place, calculated how much it would cost to modernize, and looked at other houses in the area. I made what I sincerely felt was a reasonable offer.
    He was apparently furious, but the local market and a little give and go both ways meant he sold his house at 70% what he had personally assessed it as. I expect an arbitrator, if they existed for housing, would have given him what he got. It was researched, and fair.
    In Toronto or Vancouver, he would have gotten way way more. But he was selling the house in Montreal and couldn’t truck it west. I made a fair offer that I actually felt was upper range, but I respected the guy – he was a character. It was fair all around, in the end.
    Market value. What you can get in a market. PK is in Montreal for now, and he will get market value. The market giveth, and the market taketh away.
    I know, Captain Obvious. But many posters seem to think market value is an ideal set in the sky, when it is what you can get for what you have to offer in the context you’re selling it in.
    Whatever the decision (s), and the repercussions, I hope it works out for everyone, especially all the fans.

    • joeybarrie says:

      Kinda frustrating to me is how we seem to think PK is one of the best defenceman in the history of hockey.
      He was chosen 8th out of Canadian Defenders this past season and that team handily won Gold. Chosen by a unbiased coach (NOT MICHEL THERRIEN)
      Steve Yzerman and Mike Babcock (who is arguably the best coach in the NHL given his tenure in Detroit) Both did not feel Subban was ready to be an integral part of the team.
      Yet we seem to think he deserve to be paid more than any one Montreal Canadien in history as well as any other defender in the league currently.
      I think he is a great player. But is he more than twice as good at D as MaxPac is at forward?
      Is he a better defenceman than Gokd winning goalie Carey Price?

      I think we have imagined his best possible season and are willing to pay him on that.

      I love PK. I desperately want him on our team long term. But I can’t help but feel thru all this that the expectations on his salary seem to be very high.

  14. Un Canadien errant says:

    Man, the mood is ugly today. We did a “complete 360″ from the day of the Lars Eller deal.

    I was very, very confident that both sides would come to an agreement before the hearing, posted as such a number of times, wrongly it turns out.

    I refused to engage in any posts that predicted term or amounts, I felt it was pointless. I was sure the deal would be announced, a significant portion of the Commentariat would squawk no matter what (too much, too long, not long enough,…), but most would swallow hard and be forced to admit that that’s the going rate, and as high as these numbers seem, they’d seem reasonable in due time, like Carey’s contract does today.

    I take a bit of comfort in the fact that ex-Canucks GM Mike Gillis, a former agent, was lauded for skillfully re-signing all his important veterans before they hit free agency, to sizable contracts, but always with the underlying thought that it was the cost of doing business, that these were market rates. Some argued that there was a hint of hometown discount to all these deals.

    A couple seasons later, the team is wrestling with unwieldy contracts for the Sedin brothers, the suddenly brittle Alex Burrows, the underperforming Alex Edler. And that’s after having flipped Roberto Luongo for pennies on the dollar, and being forced to deal Cory Schneider for underwhelming returns before that.

    So I don’t mind Marc Bergevin driving a hard bargain, and I don’t demonize Don Meehan and P.K. for doing the same. I just wish it hadn’t come to this, that a middle ground had been found that worked for both parties.

    I don’t see a one-year deal as any kind of a reprieve, as a time that can be used productively to strike a deal. We’d be kind of forced to wish P.K. didn’t have that great a season next year, so we could deflate his asking price, and who wants that? Next July will be more of the same. Or maybe P.K. doesn’t file for salary arbitration, and welcomes an offer sheet.

    I wonder how much Max Pacioretty’s situation factors into all this, if at all. Does Marc Bergevin worry about P.K. making twice as much as Max for the next few years, and about a dressing-room rift? We can say that these guys are pros all we want, it’s still the real world, these guys have huge egos and are always measuring each other’s, uh, measurables.

    So while management has tried hard to rid the team of bad contracts, or avoid them in the first place, it has also worked to build the team around character, and avoiding distractions. It’s a tightrope to walk for the GM, but now he needs to balance the need to protect his salary structure with the need to avoid the giant circus this will be next year. Every new town the Canadiens hit, every time P.K. scores a goal or goofs and coughs up the puck, the Greek chorus will come out and tell us what we saw, why it happened, who’s at fault, etc.

    As usual it’s not black and white, but a question of degrees. It’s analog, not digital. No good guy or bad guy, although a tonne of pressure will be on P.K. to be the ‘good guy’ and relent, for the good of the team. And it’ll be easier to pick apart in hindsight, years from now.

    ———————————————————————-
    It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • on2ndthought says:

      eloquently put, as usual.

      My concern is that PK came out of yesterday’s hearing embittered by the process. Meehan has little to lose in going to the end-game, but his client considerably more. PK is a beast, but injuries happen, and PK is often a marked man for the other team’s tough guys.

      I wonder what PK is hearing from his agent and his parents, and I suppose that is all we can do at this point. I am not optimistic but hopeful.

      “a cannonading drive”

    • Paz says:

      I don’t see the pressure on Subban to relent for the good of the team because the team can easily afford the room under the cap.

      It is fair to ask a player to take less than his market value if the team is right up against the cap, the team expects to win a Cup, or if a player has been extremely well treated in the past.

      None of this is true here.

      I hope Subban will accept around 64 million for 8 years.

      I believe that is fair. Start at 7 end at 9.5.

      Max signed a stupid deal. That is obvious to everyone now. It is not a fair deal, not even close to market value.

      The arbitrator will award 1 yr and around 7 million on Monday.

      Hopefully, Bergevin uses that number wisely as the true value for 2014, and then logically concludes that 8 years from now Subban will be worth around 9.5 million.

      A long term deal could be signed if that’s what both parties actually want.

      • B says:

        Hickey’s article suggests “the Canadiens were offering an eight-year deal worth $64 million”.

        –Go Habs Go!–

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        I think you’re underestimating the contingent of fans who’ll assail P.K. as greedy and ungrateful, and the others who’ll implore him with puppy-dog eyes to stay no matter what. There will be pressure on him, although I’m not arguing that it’s justified or not.

        As for Max, it does seem like a poor contract now, and it’s little wonder he canned his agent. When he signed it, he was coming off his injury, had just gotten married if I remember correctly, and he gushed about how he had a different outlook on life now, and how he jumped at the chance to obtain security and stability in Montréal.

        In hindsight, you almost wish the team had tacked on more money, sort of like the negotiation between Bruce McNall and Wayne Gretzky, where Wayne would lowball himself, and the Kings owner, looking to drive the hype, kept saying he should get more, being the world’s greatest athlete at the time. This awkward, brief exchange went on for a while, until they found a middle ground, one that set new records and suited Mr. McNall’s purposes, but that didn’t embarrass Wayne too much.

        This is exactly what a good agent should do for a player, is to protect him from himself. It’s a results-based business, and he got Max a below-market deal. He should have gotten him to trust in himself and his ability, and that a shorter-term deal would pay off in the long run.

    • JF says:

      Excellent post.

  15. RetroMikey says:

    Subban is gone after next year.
    Money only matters to him and some idiot club will sign him for more than 8 mil a year when he comes a UFA next year.
    No surprise, Subban is just after the money, period.
    My hat goes off to Bergy, there is life after PK

    “We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “

  16. Phil C says:

    The more I think about this situation, the more I think an arbitration ruling is a way to figure out a long term deal while allowing both sides to save face. For example once the arbitrator rules on an amount for next year, the number can be the anchor for a long term deal, with the arbitration number adjusted for inflation for the subsequent years. If the arbitrator agrees with Subban, it will be hard for the Habs to offer anything less long term. Conversely it would be hard for Subban to argue for anything more. Each side would then have to decide if they agree, or walk away. It is a way out of a negotiation which is what arbitration is supposed to be about.

    • Forum Dog says:

      This is good analysis I think, and probably the reason they would be willing to let the arbitrated ruling come down. I still hold out hope that they are negotiating right now and will come up with something around $8M, but this makes sense to me.

    • PrimeTime says:

      i like optimism

    • Paz says:

      The arbitrator is going to conclude that 1 yr is worth 7 million.

      That’s why 8 years should start at around 7 million and end at 9.5, averaging 8 million over 8 yrs for 64 million.

      I think most would agree this is fair.

      • Phil C says:

        Following an arbitration award, it would certainly be easier for Bergevin to explain it in the dressing room without the other players becoming bitter or jealous, as it would be fair as you say.

        • Paz says:

          Bergevin will never discuss a contract in the dressing room, Phil. It’s not something that’s done.

          • Phil C says:

            Not literally, but if it ever came up one-on-one with another player or his agent now or in future negotiations, it is defendable.

    • B says:

      The awkward part is that no one has a real clear idea of what the arbitrator will award. This may become a precedent setting decision, so the wide range of salary possible at this point makes the process seem a bit arbitrary to me (pardon the pun).

      –Go Habs Go!–

  17. Chuck Kept Calm and Carey'd On ® says:

    Lets’ check out some numbers.

    For 2014-15: 11.6 million in cap space – 3.6 million in potential bonuses = 8 million for PK. That would leave no room for injuries or call-ups. And forget about adding a piece to the puzzle at the trade deadline. Of course, the Habs could push the bonus money to count against the following season’s cap. In that case:

    2015-16: 69 million cap – 3.6 million bonus = 65.4 million real cap. Cap space would be approximately 8 million with 15 players under contract. Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Bournival, Beaulieu and Tinordi to be signed, plus a backup goalie and a 7th defenseman.

    Hab fans want choice! Sign the petition to give us back our games!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds

    • Bob_Sacamano says:

      Solution 1: Dump Moen
      Solution 2: Dump Prust
      Solution 3: Dump Desharnais.

      Problem solved.

      • Chuck Kept Calm and Carey'd On ® says:

        If only it were that simple.

        Moen and Prust are UFA after 2015-16, so that situation will take care of itself. You’d still have to pay for their replacements on the roster, though. Desharnais is good bang-for-the-buck when it comes to putting up points, so he’s probably not going anywhere.

        The reality is that the Habs need to get PK for a reasonable cost over the next two years. After that they can break the bank on him.

        Hab fans want choice! Sign the petition to give us back our games!
        http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds

      • joeybarrie says:

        Dumping Desharnais makes no sense to me. 3.5 million for a player who had over 50 points for us last season.
        More than Jeff Carter in LA
        More than Brad Richards.

        3.5 million for a 50 point producer. Thats great.

      • jon514 says:

        Good point. In truth I think they will trade Plek provided Eller proves he can handle the defensive responsibility. Moen should be gone before the start of the 2014 season. Find a dance partner and pull the trigger.

  18. Mondou6 says:

    If you want to see something amusing, some guy has made NHL logos combined with Simpsons characters. The Habs one isn’t interesting, but the Senators logo with Principal Skinner in the helmet is hilarious:

    http://instagram.com/p/o3e60plIvG/

    Also funny are the Flyers, Islanders, Coyotes, Devils (Flanders), and Canucks.

  19. PrimeTime says:

    PK is a PR machine. Has he never seen a camera or microphone he didn’t like? Isn’t it strange that he is the only person doing interviews on the subject? Doesn’t the agent usually handle the media? PK can say over and over again how much he has been “consistent” on his comments of the province, the city, and the team but in the end PK is about PK. Is he just another greedy athlete who only cares about himself, and he’s doing a masterful PR job covering it??

  20. Maritime Ronn says:

    Do not want to steal any of Poster ‘Smart Dog’s’ Thunder, but the 5 questions + a 1B:

    1) If PK was threatened with a trade to… Winnipeg, would he accept a long term contract with the Habs?
    1B) What if the Newport groomed PK Brand says ” Hello World,” but no one is listening?
    730 days is a long time…in Winnipeg.

    2) When will the announcement come that Francis Boullion has been signed?

    3) What is Coach Therrien thinking at this moment with a 4 year contract under his belt? TIMO?

    4) Should Wayne be concerned about Dustin and Paulina?

    5) Is Patrick Roy smiling?

  21. habstrinifan says:

    @Grimjim on his naivete post.

    I did too GrimJim… but just this.

    I want to preface what I am about to say with the admission that I am only going by expressions, body language, and words spoken and unspoken. All with my rather limited skill.

    Any perception that this is a dispute ‘driven’ by lawyers/agents and the main parties (clients) are not emotionally and fully involved should be cast adrift. All visuals coming out of the meeting pointed to that.

    So it is not ‘lawyer drivel’ that’s driving this dispute(it is now a dispute). It is not an agent’s machiavelian greed. It is the disrespect that each side now has for the others LACK OF RESPECT. Maybe they came into the contract and arbitration process with a hint of it smoldering beneath the surface .. a hint which they even refused to admit to themselves.

    But it now trumps the acceptability of any thing the other side has to say. And will unless there is a mediator found as a go between. Remember the arbitrator IS NOT A MEDIATOR. There was no “well let’s look at this this form his/their angle” effort brought to the process. That was not the legal mandate.

    I shall ask you the reader to ask ysk yourself. How do you react when you believe that someone is being disrespectful to you/your group. Your only defense is to develop a disrespect for that disrespect… so that you can dismiss the pain as coming from an unworthy source.

    And that is the problem that now exists. You can see it in the words of posters here. Many posters are now simply echoing the disrespect they see coming from one side for their side. And they of course are doing it with the stern conviction that they are not only right but right with a higher purpose.

    It’s now become a sad parody that the entire NHL is observing. And it affects both brands.

    “Protest Rogers blackout of Habs game…sign at:

    https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds.

  22. The Jackal says:

    At the end of the day, I’m glad MB sticks to his guns and is trying to do what is best for the team. That being said, it may be that what is best for the team is keeping PK at all costs. On the flip side, that may not be the case, and that’s fair.

    What is extremely ridiculous to see are all the comments disparaging PK and ignoring facts for no reason other than to justify a speculative argument. The facts stand despite the fallacies being thrown about. Fact: PK is elite. Fact: PK is a bonafide #1 D. Fact: PK has emerged as a leader on the team. Fact: PK is clutch. Fact: PK is the best player on the team (after Price). There are more and more facts that are a strong testimony to PK’s excellence as a player, and the few tidbits that are ostensibly contradictory to factual reality are circumstantial at best.

    So MT did not always play PK as a #1, well that’s on the coach, not on PK. He didn’t play for Team Canada – again, politics over substance. Hitchcock had his boy Pietrangelo there and Babcock wanted established chemistry – bad luck over anything else here. Whatever else can be said against PK is minor compared to the strides he has made in his game. He learned a lot from these experiences and is continuing to improve as a player.

    Ultimately, I’m glad MB is trying his best to sign PK to a lower cap hit – that is a good endeavour. I don’t think these negotiations will sour either party’s opinions of each other and PK will in the end be better off for it. What we don’t need here is more of the constant crapping on a beloved Hab. So what if PK may be selling himself a bit high? That is the market for that kind of player. Deals on comparable players were signed under a different market and eat up less UFA years than this deal would. It’s fine if you think PK should sign for less, that would be great, but lets not disparage him as a player for whatever reason. At what point does spewing factually incorrect opinions cease to happen? The facts about PK being an elite player are obvious for all to see. There’s no need to try and undermine that by throwing him under the bus.

    • Habfan17 says:

      To me, it comes down to a few things. How can the Habs give PK more money than Markov this season? Niskanen received $5.75 as a UFA from Washington. He had 46 points, only 7 points less than Pk. The big difference is he was plus 33 where PK was minus 4. This while Price was much better than Fleury!

      It also comes down to players like Doughty, 2 Stanley cups and twice being a key member of the Olympic team. Pietrangelo, Keith, and Chara. true some signed under the old CBA but when it comes to Keith and Doughty, they want to win cups as much as they want to get paid fairly. There is a balance. Karlsson also took a bit less than he could have received as a UFA having won the Norris.

      It would appear very fair for PK to get $6.5 for this season, $7 million next season, $7.75 for 3rd season, $8 million for season 4, and 5, then $8.5 for season 7 and 8.

      Habfan17

  23. scamorza says:

    wow in a space of a week we went from an incredible HIO community to the 2014 version of 12 Angry Men. Yes i am disappointed that we didn’t sign subban, yes I think soemwhere north of $7M is right. Yes Subban is one of the more electrifying defenseman. No is not he best. Who knows what is potential may be. No I don’t think MB is a jerk. Yes Meehan is trying to get the best deal for his client. No we really have no idea what has been offered other than the polar numbers thrown before arbitration.
    So depending where you may be go enjoy the summer’s day and if you are in the GTA get ready for Here comes the flood version 2

    come to Dorion suits where you get no….”hassoles” _ Yvon Lambert

  24. derfab says:

    Pathetic. Truly. If Bergevin has any guts or imagination…..(?)…. he will do something to scramble, backtrack, dump more salary for prospects and picks and give PK his own keys to the Bell center. But I don`t think he does. He will play it safe and crap on his best asset, the only black kid in the line-up, because its easy to follow the same tired old recipe while the rink stays filled. Shame on him and the Habs.

  25. HabFab says:

    Just noticed that the PGA golfer suspended for cocaine use is Paulina Gretzky’s finance… poor Wayne can’t catch a break with that girl!

  26. DDO_Habs_Fan says:

    If MB does not want to sign PK long term because he is too expensive, that is his prerogative. He is paid to make these decisions. However, as soon as the decision is announced, he needs to deal him ASAP because PK’s value will only decrease until UFA. All this talk about the Habs signing him later is BS because PK’s price, which they already don’t like, is only going to go higher.

  27. crane says:

    P.K. must be traded before training camp,if not idiot M.T. will totaling mess P.K. up for good,just like Eller and Briere.

  28. smiler2729 says:

    The business of sports, agent-driven player greed, after awhile it starts to make me not even care about the sport
    _______________________________________
    Jack Edwards is a clam.
    Gary Bettman is a bobblehead.
    The “CH” in CHOKE stands for Toronto Maple Leafs.

    • MauriceMaxwell says:

      Enlighten me on how a player is greedy for wanting market value?

      OLE OLE OLE OLE!

      • Habfan17 says:

        What is market value? I don’t think based on his career to date and the true comparable players that $8.5 million is market rate! Just for one comparable, Doughty has won 2 Stanley Cups and was a key member of two Olympic teams. Yes, PK did win the Norris in the short season. Still, there are more comparable defencemen that make less than $8 million/season, please do not include Phaneuf!
        Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Duncan Keith, Letang, and Chara. You can say, some signed under the old CBA, so what. Teams still only have so much money to spread around. You can’t use Suter and Weber as they were signed as UFA’s and they come under the category of dumb GM moves. Especially Weber who was signed to an offer sheet. Do you want the Habs to end up like Philly. They have made very questionable moves and still no cup! The Wild are getting better, but have they won and will they win?

        Habfan17

        • Habfan17 says:

          Not to mention, how do you justify paying PK more than Markov for this season?

          Habfan17

          • MauriceMaxwell says:

            Here’s the market: http://www.capgeek.com/leaders/. Do you really think PK is not worth 8-9 million based on what other players are making? And I’ll pretend you didn’t ask that silly question about how you justify paying PK more than Markov for this season.

            OLE OLE OLE OLE!

        • Bob_Sacamano says:

          Really, Doughty again? FFS, how difficult is it to understand it? Doughty didn´t have to sign a low bridge deal and he signed his current contract in 2011 when the cap was significantly lower.

          Why not include Phaneuf? If he makes 7 million a year, Subban would be underpaid with 12. You also look at Toews´ and Kane´s 10.5 million a year and there´s no reason to expect from Meehan/P.K. to sign for less than 8.5 million a year.

          Even if you think you are overpaying him by a million in the end, so what? Several non-core or even fringe Players on this team are overpaid as well which is a real problem.

  29. The Jackal says:

    Lol Habs are worse without Markov than without PK? Someone’s been boozing early.

  30. PK says:

    I am still hopeful that the PK situation will get sorted out and that he will remain a Hab for many years to come.

    MB will do what is best for his organization and hopefully Subban will fit in under the cap structure ….

    By the way, I am sure the Habs organization respect him at times like this (and the rest of the teams wish that they had PK, Gally, Chucky etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuIJBvw8z1w

    >>>> Les Canadiens sont là
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

    “Une équipe de hockey sur glace de l’île de Mont-Royal va gagner la Coupe de Lord Stanley à 24 reprises dans le 20e siècle et trois fois au cours du 21e siècle.”

    – Nostradamus, 1552

  31. kerrgte says:

    Over the past few days there’ve been several insightful articles posted re: the arbitration process and the tactics of Meehan.

    Mtl is very fortunate in having a top, tough GM to protect the interests of the club, as well as provide PK with a generous salary under the terms of the CBA’s arbitration process.

    In a few months after the media who want to hand the keys to the franchise to PK have had a chance to reflect, we’ll be happy campers.

  32. franco says:

    Lindros was once the prize everyone was drooling over.

    Quebec had the first pick and chose him. He refused to go, went back to Junior. Quebec had no choice but to trade him.

    They obtained some pieces that won them some Cups, under the name of Colorado.

    They traded the biggest player (at the time) with the softest hands, who looked like he could not be stopped.

    Last I looked he has retired, (early) with never winning a Cup.

    So sometimes the obvious answer is not obvious.

    Sometimes the deal you are forced to make is the best.

    Sometimes the player you just have to have doesn’t work out.

    Later no one in their right mind would have traded Forsberg for Lindros. (Just one player in the trade)

    Life is interesting, and sometimes it works out just fine, without your help

    • derfab says:

      Lindros remained an elite player comparable to Lemieux until thugs like Scott Stevens were allowed to assault him with vicious head-shots.

      • franco says:

        Lindros played with his head down too much. A bad habit from Junior when he was twice the size of everyone.

        Back in the day the Stevens hits were legal.

        Keep your head up, if he had, he would have not have been vulnerable.

        • derfab says:

          He was put into a leadership role at 18 and was a target, partly because he stood up to the league. From what I saw, the stuff about his supposed bad habit was made up to excuse the fact that it was open season on the kid from day one and that he was hurt.

  33. Phil C says:

    How would you like to be this arbitrator? This is one of those benchmark rulings so you know it will be scrutinized by the NHLPA and the league. Anything between $6.5M and $8.5M would not really surprise me. This is what she is supposed to consider:

    1. The player’s “overall performance” including statistics in all previous seasons.
    2. Injuries, illnesses and the number of games played.
    3. The player’s length of service with the team and in the NHL.
    4. The player’s “overall contribution” to the team’s success or failure.
    5. The player’s “special qualities of leadership or public appeal.”
    6. The performance and salary of any player alleged to be “comparable” to the player in the dispute.

    1. Top scorer for defensemen in the NHL two years ago, Norris Trophy, among the leaders last year. Pretty strong.

    2. PK has been a horse, missing only only 12 games in 4 seasons, 6 being a hold-out and at least two others were healthy scratches, IIRC.

    3. 4 years service is great for a 25 year old.

    4. This one is trickier. They were a last place team when he was the number one defenseman 3 years ago. He was great against Boston, meh against the Rangers.

    5. One of the most marketable players in the league, but his leadership in the room might be an issue which I’m sure the Habs argued.

    6. Depends who the arbitrator uses as a comparable. Can’t see it being anyone making less than $7.0M.

    Overall, based on the criteria, unless the Habs made a character-assassinating argument, I think the man is going to get paid by the arbitrator.

  34. Kfourn says:

    Amidst all this contract talk, which I choose to refrain from commenting on, I have a few criticisms of PK’s performance this past season.

    1) I believe that PK is playing too heavy. I understand that he is a machine and takes really good care of his health, but he was noticeably slower off his first few strides last year. This meant that when he did turn over the puck (and it happened quite a few times) he had trouble catching up to the opposition player that was breaking the other way to fix his mistake, which was one of his strong points earlier in his career.

    2) He whiffed on most of his backward-butt-checks and consequently took himself out of position far too often for no reason. I’m not sure if it is because players have gotten to know PK’s play better or if his timing is just off (possibly because of point 1) but he needs to start choosing his moments better.

    3) Overall timing of his plays. This will probably get better with experience, but he needs to learn when he can make the risky play and when it’s time to run out the clock a little bit and slow down the play.

    These are all small details, but if improved will really bring PK to the next level and I really do think he could be the best defenseman in the NHL with small adjustments to his game.

    _______________________________________________________
    “It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

  35. kerrgte says:

    It would have been so easy to satisy PK’s fans by taking the easy way out and handing him the keys to the frandhise.

    There’ve been several articles dealing with the rules of the arbitration process, and Don Meehan’s tactics. In my review of these, I am grateful that Montreal has a competent and tough GM to handle this contract.

    I expect that PK will be signed at a generous salary, he will be a happy camper, and Montreal’s cap structure will continue to improve.

    • HardHabits says:

      Thank you.

    • mksness says:

      or we can give PK the money so that our genius gm doesn’t have money to burn on dumb contracts like moen, briere, parros, murray of past years. cap flexibility is nice and all but in this market PK is worth his money

      • kerrgte says:

        Yes, he’s a franchise player.

        We also want him to be under contract for a long time and, especially, thru his prime playing years.

        We also want Mtl to continue to have a flexible cap structure to optimize the product that is put on the ice.

        Simply take a look at some of the highly skewed teams such as Chi, Pitts, and others. Having 1 or 2 highly priced players isn’t the long term formula for success.

        george k

  36. big_green_puffin says:

    I said it before, I’ll say it again, Marc Bergevin will not be the GM at this point next year! When PK is traded ’cause he can’t stand MT anymore and wants out of Montreal ’cause clearly the organization doesn’t love him enough to pay up, Carey will be the next to ask for a trade because His good friends Josh Georges and PK are gone! Then this team will be cellar dwellers for years because no one will want to play here

    • HardHabits says:

      How much money would you like to bet on this comment?

    • franco says:

      You promise to remind us. Eating crow ain’t so bad, I sometimes have had to snack on it.

      M.B. is just trying to run the business right.

      He has plenty of help, they project 5 years into the future and justify their thinking. So they have a plan.

      If you have to deviate from the plan, it has to justified.

      So the fans have opinions, me included, but at the end of the day it means very little when you do not have to explain your thinking and then get results.

  37. PrimeTime says:

    If PK plays for Toronto in 3years, as I think he wants, will he be booed at the Bell Centre?

  38. The Jackal says:

    Wow, the amount of back turning on PK is absolutely ridiculous. This same crap happened during the last negotiations, and it is happening again now. Some are quick to throw PK under the bus, very very disappointing. But for those of us who do not shun facts, the reality is obvious to see: PK is an elite D, he loves being a Hab, is a clutch player, and is one of his generation’s best players.

    It’s ok if management isn’t in love with PK, for some stupid reason, he is a polarizing figure. But let’s not create a false reality in which PK is “just good” but “not elite or generational.” This is a player who, for the last three times the Habs were in the playoffs, played a major role in winning games and has been a leader in all those situations.

    It’s absurd to dismiss all of that to justify a lower cap hit or to part ways. If it really comes down to the Habs saying bye PK, there better be an elite #1 centre coming the other way, otherwise the Habs are screwed.

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      I bet the same people who are denigrating PK now are were celebrating when PK was leading the team in scoring in the playoffs. Unbelievable…

      • Chuck Kept Calm and Carey'd On ® says:

        What do you want MB to pay him with, Monopoly money? Take a trip on over to capgeek.com to assess what paying PK $9 million for the next couple of years would do to the team’s salary structure.

        Hab fans want choice! Sign the petition to give us back our games!
        http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds

        • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

          No, Molson’s money. Where did I say I would pay PK 9 million? Anyway, of course the cap hit would affect salary structure but how then how do you replace a 30 min/game D-man who was your leading scorer in the playoffs? Don’t tell me nobody saw this situation coming two years ago.

          • Chuck Kept Calm and Carey'd On ® says:

            They didn’t have the cap space a couple of years ago to go big money with him. Now Bergevin still has to be cautious with how a contract would be structured. PK deserves to be paid extremely well… but at the same time it has to be structured in a way that won’t hamper the team’s ability to get better either short term or long term.

            Hab fans want choice! Sign the petition to give us back our games!
            http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds

    • habsfan0 says:

      It’s interesting that not many people want to discuss the rather large elephant in the room.

      In other words,if PK was a white,francophone superstar with a magnetic personality from Pointe Au Pic,Quebec, rather than a black,anglophone superstar who has a riveting character from Toronto,Ontario, would his contract negotiations be at the exact same impasse they are now?

      Perhaps, they would be.
      Then again, perhaps not.

      • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

        Nobody’s debating this because everyone agrees that would be the case. It is the nature of the market here.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Had no idea MB was a bigot, this is good information, insightful and factually based. Thanks!

      • Habfan17 says:

        This negotiation between the Habs and PK has nothing to do with race or language. It is time to stop this nonsense. This comes down to the team salary structure, what comparable players are making, true comparables, where the cap may be and how PK will progress, being able to ice a competitive team each season without having to trade part of the core every season or two.

        Habfan17

    • New says:

      See, there is where the debate fails. It always comes down to a fallacious argument, an insult that anyone with an opposing or logical position. “Ridiculous, crap, under the bus, disappointing, those of us, elite, generational, stupid reason, absurb.” Those aren’t reflective of fact or argument but emotional opinion.

      There has been more real insight presented into PK’s game and value over the last couple days than ever before. Finger pointing, yelling, insults, none of that changes what is or is not. The arbitration works the same way, no testimonials thank you very much.

  39. NightRyder says:

    So who are the real asshats in this deal?
    I go with Therrien and Meehan.

    • franco says:

      What did Therrien do? He never said a word. He never even went to the meeting.

      Therrien took them to the top 4.

      So what you say, what has he done lately.

      Well, actually nothing, but apparently he screwed up the negotiation.

      P.K. is the king and Therrien is his little bitch.

      Montreal wins because of Price and Subban you say.

      Well other teams depend on their star players to, I say.

      But Therrien is not nice, he is a poop po head, you say.

      You got a point, I say, will you still be my friend, I say.

  40. habs001 says:

    So if Gallagher becomes a 45 goal scorer,Galchenyuk a 90 point player,Beaulieu puts up PK offensive numbers..Bournival 30 goals..Eller 70 points..Sekac 30 goals…Sounds great but the Habs would not be able to keep them all…The cap means you cannot have too many top players as you cannot keep them..Basically trade your Porsche for 5 GM cars…

    • NightRyder says:

      Pay a little extra for the shiny bauble.
      It may not always run perfectly, but when it does, it’s a helluva ride.

    • twilighthours says:

      That would be great! And if we couldn’t afford them at that time, we could make a trade then.

      • habs001 says:

        That is the problem with the cap ..you drafted great,you developed your players great,you have a powerhouse lineup and you cannot keep them but have to trade down for lesser players and drafts…

        • New says:

          Exactly. You build it, they come and pay, you send your profit to teams that don’t bother and then they can buy up your best players at large sums because they all agreed to limit the money you could pay the players you nurtured. What they should place a cap on is UFA salaries and let teams pay whatever they want to in house product. Then you’d have bigger salaries for loyalty and lesser salaries for mercenaries that sign and disappear into contentment.

    • franco says:

      I like G.M. cars. Porche’s are hard to get in and out of, lousy for grocery shopping, always afraid to put them in the parking lot, Insurance is outa this world, chics won’t give you any peace.

      Now with 5 G.M. cars the family is covered just might need a bigger garage and driveway….all good in my world.

  41. HabFab says:

    So what is the count down to still make a deal? 25 hours?

  42. BJ says:

    I don’t know “who is at fault” or who is not. Perhaps no one is, and each party’s perspective is his right. You would hope that a player agent would have the brains to realize that a team that is serious about winning and building a yearly contender has to manage a team and not one or two “star” players. If the object is to only create glitz than perhaps you can dump a few 10 M + contracts and hope for the best (Chicago will soon regret those contracts to Toews and Kane). Personally I prefer a well balanced team with four quality lines rather than 2-3 stars that will not bring you the Cup. If the cap was not an issue, than the Leafs would probably be able to afford a Cup or two.

    • kerrgte says:

      actually, the agent only cares about his client… and, of course, his enormous commission.

      there’ve been several insightful articles posted on this site in the last few days about the arbitration process, and the Don Meehan, Sportsnet agency’s tactics in another.

      The Habs are very fortunate in having a top GM at the helm who wont cave in to public pressure, thus ensuring a healthy financial future for the club.

      cheers

      george k

    • HardHabits says:

      Even prior to the cap the Rangers proved you can’t spend your way to a championship.

      Bergevin has declared, and I agree, that you don’t build your team through free agency.

      That being said, I like MB’s manner of doing business. He’s given out some decent and well valued contracts. I fault Meehan on this.

      However I also think the Habs not only do not see PK as a franchise player but are even hesitant to build their defence around him. PK is not a #1 D man yet and may never be.

        • twilighthours says:

          PK is not a #1 D man yet and may never be.

          This is factual?

          • HardHabits says:

            PK is not a #1 D man yet…

            In the last two season moving beyond the technicality that Markov played more minutes than Subban and for all intents and purposes was the Habs #1 in that span and given that in 2011-12 when Subban was #1 the Habs Tanked™, yes the first part of the comment is fact.

            My premise is that the Habs without Markov are worse than the Habs without PK.

            … and may never be.

            That is supposition but technically also a fact, because he also may be.

          • twilighthours says:

            You’re really cherry picking, HH. I’m disappointed in you. But I’ll hit you with a few facts:

            1) Subban averaged ~1.5 minutes more ice time than Markov in the 2013 playoffs. As you would expect of the team’s top defenseman.

            During this 2011-12 year you keep referencing (presumably to make some point about Subban)

            2) The team was -7, yet PK managed to be +9 (4th best on the team, and 2nd best defenseman). He also had a better shot for/against differential than the team as a whole, and the best of the defensemen who played more than a handful of games (49.5% of all shot events in favour for PK vs the team’s 48.6%).

            3) And those defensemen? Here are the regular D, after Gorges, Subban, Emelin (games played in parentheses):

            Yannick Weber (60)
            Raphael Diaz (59)
            Hal Gill (53)
            Tomas Kaberle (43)
            Chris Campoli (43)

            And you want to somehow pin 2011-12 on Subban?

            I don’t know why I’m responding. You’re just doing a troll-job.

    • kerrgte says:

      There’ve been several insightful articles posted on this site in the last few days about the arbitration process, and the Don Meehan, Sportsnet agency’s tactics in another. My takeaway was that MB is taking a smart business approach given the rules of the arbitration process and the tactics that are typical of the Don Meehan Sportsnet business.

      My takeaway from the articles is that the Habs are very fortunate in having a top GM at the helm who wont cave in to public pressure, thus ensuring a healthy financial future for the club.

      cheers

      george k

  43. on2ndthought says:

    Somebody references a Brian Wilde article, here it is:

    http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/call-of-the-wilde-p-k-subban-deserves-better-1.1943437

    I still wonder if 5 for $38M would fly. if not, if I’m MB, I offer 8X8 = $64M (but I’m a big believer in PK)

    “a cannonading drive”

    • HardHabits says:

      Now we have it. Subban’s camp is down to 8.5 and the Habs are holding in at 7.

      This means the Subban camp had already asked for way more. This is not as bad as every one is making it out to be. And you have to give MB credit for sticking to his guns like that.

    • Mark C says:

      “I can with reasonably certainty tell you that the Subban camp has moved down to the $8.5 million neighborhood. The Habs will not budge from the area of $7 million. Originally, I did not believe that Subban would move lower than $9 million.”

      How nice of the Subban camp to move down from setting the record for highest AAV contract for a defenseman to setting the record for the highest AAV contract for a defenseman.

      Both sides need to given ground and meet somewhere in the middle.

  44. HabinBurlington says:

    Can the PK/MB (with a heavy dose of Meehan) contract dealings become more polarizing than the Halak / Price decision?

  45. habs001 says:

    Last year the defensive play in the D zone took a step back for PK from the previous years..He fell down a lot and was not as smooth as in previous years in winning battles in the corner and getting the puck out…This is why he sat in the Olympics and this is why he is not yet a 9m player…

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      Markov made just as many gaffs as PK and still got paid. As for the Olympics, PK was the 4th RH D-man because Pietrangelo plays with Boumeister. If PK played with JayBo, he would have started due to the chemistry factor which is critical in a short tournament.

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      PK still has some huge holes in his game in his own end and in terms of ‘awareness’ in the D zone.
      Can he solve that?
      Who knows, yet for the moment Alex Petrangello is a better overall 200 ft. Dman who is also trusted by Coach Hitchkock to play 1st Unit PK.

      • montrealtilldeath says:

        In the end hockey is entertainment. We all know that Jacques Lemaire was a better all around player than Guy Lafleur. Which of these 2 players do the fans, who pay the bills, want to see on the ice. Petrangelo is a good player but he does not “bring it” like PK. When Therrian needed it in the big games who was on the ice? Look at PK’s ice time in big games.

    • on2ndthought says:

      PK gets better every shift. Defense and goalie mistakes are always more glaring. If Doughty got bench for every bonehead play he makes, he’d play 10 minutes per game. You want a stay at home D, trade PK for Gorges.

      “a cannonading drive”

  46. on2ndthought says:

    If this is accurate:

    Kosta Papoulias: Told that P.K. Subban was offered a five-year, $36 million contract but turned it down: $6 million, $7 million, $7 million, $8 million and $8 million. Subban is looking for a longer deal and more money. Subban is not looking for less than $8 million.

    then they are $0.8M apart. Make it 5 years, $38M ($7.6M AAV!) and let’s go back to the gym, beach, fish!

    “a cannonading drive”

    • on2ndthought says:

      sorry for the double post, it didn’t show up (either time) I just restarted the page to post again and they were ther

      “a cannonading drive”

  47. PrimeTime says:

    MB: “6 years @ $6.5 Mil”
    PK: “2 years @ $8 Mil”
    Is this not out of the realm of possibilities this is the problem??

  48. jrshabs1 says:

    If the reports are true, MB has offered PK an 8 year contract that would have made him the highest paid Hab ever. Price is making 6.5m a year, so we can assume the MB offered PK something in the range of 7.5-8.0m a year. I would also assume PK wants a Shea Webber type deal. PK is not Shea Webber. Maybe PK and his notoriously greedy agent have over evaluated PK’s worth. Shea Webber was the best D-man in the Olympics, a key cog in the gold medal. PK played 1 game and didn’t make a difference.
    I believe the Habs made PK the best offer they could for themselves and for PK, he didn’t take it. If PK moves on, it’s because he wants to.

    Go Habs Go!!!!!

  49. on2ndthought says:

    don’t know how accurate this is:

    Kosta Papoulias: Told that P.K. Subban was offered a five-year, $36 million contract but turned it down: $6 million, $7 million, $7 million, $8 million and $8 million. Subban is looking for a longer deal and more money. Subban is not looking for less than $8 million.

    not exactly an insult or low ball, they are $0.8M apart.
    Make it 38 for 5 ($7.6M AAV!) and let’s go back to the gym!

    “a cannonading drive”

  50. DDO_Habs_Fan says:

    Some of the comments I have been reading today are ridiculous. PK only worth 6 million? Every D-man in his class makes around 7 million on deals signed BEFORE the new Rogers deal and consequent escalating cap. This is why Lundqvist signed for 8.5mill and Kane/Toews 10.5 mill. This is simple inflation and time value of money concepts. If you believe that you should “spread” your cap money around, that is fine but don’t denigrate a player’s worth to fit your budgetary allowances.

    BTW all those teams who have won with players with low cap hits did so because they identified their key players and signed them to long term deals early. This is why, for example, Tavares is only making 5 million a year. MB had his chance to skip the bridge deal with PK and chose not to (his prerogative). Now he has a huge problem on his hands that he needs to resolve before the season starts or else it is going to be a PK circus.

  51. HabFab says:

    In line with the meningitis stories and good news. Tim Bozon played his second game in an exhibition tourney in the Czech Republic yesterday. He hasn’t scored any points yet but baby steps please!
    Say’s he will be ready come hockey season.

  52. Chuck Kept Calm and Carey'd On ® says:

    Habs have 11.6 million in cap space for this season, plus 3.6 million in bonus money that they may have to factor in at the end of the season. Plus you need a cushion for injuries, and a couple of million left over should you want to add a piece at the trade deadline.

    A lot of cap management no doubt went into MB’s final offer. He’s not in a place where he could have opened the vaults to give Meehan whatever he was asking for.

    • Bob_Sacamano says:

      You are also paying 15 million for Emelin, DD, Prust and Moen the next two years. Dump all of them and play Subban with three rookies instead of these guys and you have a significantly better team.

      Once again, when Phaneuf got 7 a year last summer and Kane and Toews have just signed for 10.5 million a year you can´t expect Subban so sign for less than 8.5-9 million a year. That´s his market value. Like it or not. You give him that Money and save elsewhere. It´s not that difficult.

      If I was Molson I´d fire MB today. He wouldn´t be a bigt loss. He´s done okay but not great. You can easily replace him. Subban? You can´t replace him at all.

    • B says:

      The cap space does not include the bonuses, so they have roughly 11.6 – 3.6 = 8 in cap space for 14/15 unless they want to use the loop hole to push out some or all of 14/15′s bonuses to eat into 15/16′s cap space.

      –Go Habs Go!–

      • Chuck Kept Calm and Carey'd On ® says:

        That’s my point… it’s not like MB is swimming in money for this upcoming season. You can pay PK 9 million, but then you have no wiggle room for the rest of the season and you could end up lowering the following season’s cap. Ask Boston how that’s working out for them.

        Hab fans want choice! Sign the petition to give us back our games!
        http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-habs-blackout-rds

        • B says:

          Sorry, I didn’t find that clear from your post. I agree that it is better not to push off one season’s bonuses to the next season’s cap space.

          –Go Habs Go!–

  53. Corson27 says:

    My Montreal Canadiens includes P.K Subban. I hope after all this he is stays a long time.

  54. HardHabits says:

    So I guess this dampens the PK for “C” movement.

    • NightRyder says:

      As I’ve said, we need to mindbleep the Meehan camp and give him the C anyway.
      Trot him out at the home opener, sporting the C and carrying the torch as the place goes nuts?
      How could he not feel the love, then?
      He’d have to stay!

  55. montrealtilldeath says:

    The bridge contract proved to me that MB was incompetent. I said this when it happened. Many on this site were into the “PK has to prove himself” mind set. Could have locked him in long term for much less. Picking Therrian over Larry Robinson assured me that MB is an idiot. These negotiations requires a thorough search of an English dictionary to find an appropriate descriptive term to adequately express MS’s new low in terms of competency. I will probably have to find a term in Arabic (world’s most elaborate language) to properly express how badly MB has fffd this up.

    • PrimeTime says:

      How do you know MB doesn’t want to sign him long term but maybe PK wants to go short so he can cash in as a UFA in 2 years??

      • montrealtilldeath says:

        Bridge contract episode says a lot. Unbelievably stupid. Said this at the time. It was clearly evident at the time as to how valuable PK was. He was already playing incredible minutes for the Habs.

        • PrimeTime says:

          That is your answer to my question!?

          • montrealtilldeath says:

            Given his dad’s love for the Habs I am fairly sure PK really wants to stay a Hab. His father will have a big say in this and PK will give his opinion a lot of weight in his final decision. The bridge contract was a bad idea and left a bad taste. As far as what was offered I know as much as you do ; nothing. I am just looking at the history with respect to the MB Subban dealings. It is not good.

        • Cal says:

          The bridge contact was about Cap Space and not having much room to wiggle. This episode is about how the Habs don’t know how to handle star players.
          I get the feeling MB and MT would like a roster of Moens.

    • joeybarrie says:

      How many things wrong with this post???
      First Larry Robinson was looking for an assistant coaches position. And even if it was coach, he would have to be coaching a successful team in order to qualify that comment.
      As for MB screwing up, I must say that is absolutely wrong. He has done a great job here since he arrived. Wasn’t he just nominated for GM of the year??? I guess the professionals who jodge that disagree with you slightly.

    • HardHabits says:

      I choose my moments to go all ad hominem because I prefer to debate ideas, but since you haven’t provided any I will gladly counter your premise with a “you are a total idiot.”

      I’ve read a few of your comments, actually had to hold my nose while doing so, and what I have gleaned from them is that you have the intellect of a house plant and the life’s experience of a fruit fly.

      And that’s me being nice.

  56. PuffNStuff says:

    I detect many low key bigots here, old school guys set in their ways. Guys who believe PK should be in the NBA not the NHL. I bet if he was a white guy from Verdun people be screaming pay the man. Well we kids of today don’t think this way. All I read all over the NHL people are scratching their heads why Montreal did not pay the man. And I don’t give two shakes what you all have for comebacks.

  57. lokojj says:

    To add to my post below, I think there is a factor to consider.
    Kane and Toews have set a new benchmark for forwards in the new CBA. For PK all comparisons are done with Dmen signed under the old CBA. So how much of this tough negotiation is driven by the agent trying to set a new high for Dmen and who better to do it than with PK?

  58. habs001 says:

    In a cap world the goal is to find a couple of 8m players in the draft but any more you cannot keep anyway…If a team gets very lucky and drafts 8 players over 3 years that become superstars you would have to trade probably 4 of them for lesser players or draft picks..Loaded super elite teams cannot exist in the NHL anymore…There are better players in other leagues than many of the 4th line players in the NHL but because of the cap they cannot be on the team…

  59. rogus says:

    To all you who are saying sign PK at any cost, is he really worth 1.5x as much as Markov? What message does that send to the other RFA’S? Bergevin has to be shrewd so that he doesn’t set a high contract for future young stars. I love PK, but am not a fan of Meehan or his tactics.

  60. ClutchNGrab says:

    Here’s what I don’t get about MB’s strategy with Subban. The more he waits, the less he will be able to get through a trade and the more the habs will have to pay to sign him. I don’t see a benefit in making thise short deals.

  61. DipsyDoodler says:

    If you

    —–
    Moving. Forward.

  62. PrimeTime says:

    The most reasonable post…and this is from a longtime PK fan, Sir Ian Cobb.

    Bergevin is growing a Stanly Cup annual contender!
    To do so you do not give away the store, you spread out your inventory evenly across the board. Taking into account that if two of your best players go down with injuries you don’t get blow-en out of the water. Instead you have depth a more evenly balanced team with$ that can carry on with winning games.
    Teams that do not spread the budget across the whole roster, never get a shot at the cup. You cannot put all eggs in one basket in this team game.
    PK is worth around $6 million and that is all he is worth right now! So for one year he better show much better plus minus stats and stop giving up so many turn over’s, costing us games. Yes he can win a game on his own, but his errors cost just as many.
    We all love him, but he better come down to earth or move on!! I’m disappointed in a young man that I know very well! Not Bergevin at all! Bergevin is showing me that he is one of the finest young GM’s that this league has to offer.
    Stand your ground Marc! ….Ian

  63. twilighthours says:

    Wouldn’t it be great if we had PK under contract for another few years at ~$6mil AAV? Oh yeah, we could have. About two years ago.

    • shiram says:

      It does seem so doesn’t it?
      Obviously hindsight is 20/20, and the people making the decisions are more experienced lot than all we combined.

      But I can’t see what stayed their hand then, and why with the promise of rewarding PK if he proved himself, a deal could not be struck.

      • twilighthours says:

        It’s not even hindsight. Many, many people thought that $6 per would be a steal in a few years. Boy were they right. Maybe, kinda, sorta like $9 per would be a steal a few years from now.

        • shiram says:

          I wanted to believe it was a good business decision back then, there were a lot more question marks associated with PK back then.

          I’d say for the most part he’s answered those questions brilliantly.

          And yeah, 9 might be a bargain in a few years, I agree.
          I’ve said I’d be ok with 9.5 AAV

  64. NightRyder says:

    Like most of you, I’ve read/listened to/watched anything and everything I could on the Subban situation.
    Tremendous opinion and insight out there. I’m still waiting to see the actual numbers presented but for now, I’m personally stuck on this:
    Therrien got a fat contract extension and Subban didn’t.

    • twilighthours says:

      Can’t argue with that.

      Wait, yes I can. You’re wrong! Jerk!

    • HardHabits says:

      Cool. If Subban signs for 2.5 million per for 4 years I am all in.

      ANd this goes to show. Therrien is more important than Subban.

      Subban is no Toews. He is no Malkin. He isn’t a Crosby either. He’s not even a Shea Weber or a Ryan Suter.

      Nope. PK is looking to be more and more of a Jaroslav Halak. A very, very lucrative Jaroslav at that.

      • NightRyder says:

        I have not had an emotional attachment to any player since they ran Lafleur into retirement (note the lingering bitterness), but I absolutely understand that part of fandom.
        And, as mentioned, we always love the shiniest baubles. Flashy players (Kovalev, Subban) who can do things that pull us out of our seats are a huge part of the escapism of being a fan. There is also huge identification with guys who work their bags off (Gorges etc.) despite a lack of talent.
        In the end, they are all replaceable, so that emotional attachment is futile outside of the actual game days. What’s the old saying? If you start listening to the fans, you’ll soon become one.
        The Olympics showed us how the real hockey cognescenti view P.K. Subban. Maybe, just maybe, they know more than us.

      • habsgod says:

        well hh pk is better than weber and suter he’s won a norris those guys haven’t

        • HardHabits says:

          I think many if not all pundits would argue that S. Weber and R. Suter are way better than PK Subban. One Norris trophy in a shortened season does not an elite player make.

  65. frontenac1 says:

    Hola Amigos!Getting sick of all this talk about getting a Heavyweight Enforcer. Let’s talk about PK and his contract for awhile. Will he tell Meehan to go fu#k himself and sign a deal?

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      :-)
      Maybe he should have Pat Brisson as his agent
      Never a fuss with that guy
      Always cool gets his deals done Crosby-Kane Toews….got the O’Reilly done when Meehan made a mess last year..

      • frontenac1 says:

        That’s a good idea amigo. It was suggested here yesterday that Meehan was taking PK and his family for a ride. Right over a cliff. At some point, something has gotta give.

  66. HardHabits says:

    This is my perspective. The Habs have way more than enough depth on defence. This is a cap world. In a lot of ways thankfully. Is Subban worth 10 million per? In my opinion nobody is. Not even those Wall Street executives who make 10x that much.

    But in this real world full of excess with little restraint, Subban is not worth 10 million per. 8 million maybe and even then I still find that sum to be ludicrous.

    The Habs have depth on D. It is up front where they need to add skill and size. So hopefully the Habs, if they can’t come to terms with Subban, involve him in a blockbuster deal with the Oilers for one of their top guns. Or maybe for a player or a few players from the Peg.

    Then Soobie-doo can balk at signing there and cash in big time in Toronto and spend the rest of his life watching the Habs win Cups without him while he’s playing golf each summer.

    • twilighthours says:

      Subtract subban from montreal’s D. You’re ok with that group to start the season?

      • HardHabits says:

        So the Habs Tank™ or worse finish in the middle of the pack. I am OK with that because I like the current management team. They understand PRO SCOUTING. I do remember last time Subban was the man on D the Habs drafted Galchenyuk the following season.

        So here is my further take. The Habs have concluded that PK is neither franchise nor generational. Is PK elite? I don;t think so. He’s good. Possibly one of the best #2′s in the league. You don;t want to build your defence corps around him. You make him a part of it.

        PK thinks he is the leader. This is one serious test of his eventual captaincy, which is looking more and more unlikely.

        To think that people were already crowning PK. I guarantee you this. PK will not be captain of the Habs next season. Maybe never.

    • Paz says:

      We have not won a Cup in 21 years and counting.

      We finally have Price and Subban to lead us there and now we want to chase him out of town.

      • HardHabits says:

        Nobody wants to chase him out of town. If he doesn’t want to sign for a reasonable rate I want to trade him for assets. Big difference. But you’d have to let go of your hysteria to be able to see the reason behind it.

      • PrimeTime says:

        Remove the PK coloured glasses and you’ll better understand the argument.

    • punkster says:

      I don’t think it will come to a trade and I have trouble finding fault with either side on this.

      Meehan wants top dollar for his client long term…that’s his job.

      MB wants the best results for his team long term…that’s his job.

      PK is the man in the middle, will benefit either way, and has the savvy to make the right decisions for his and his family’s future.

      Release the Subbang!!!

    • NightRyder says:

      This is all part of Meehan’s evil plan to have Subban and Stamkos with the Leafs in 2016.

    • Cal says:

      The Oilers have pop guns, HH, not top guns.

  67. Paz says:

    You go to the draft to find your future stars.
    You draft them
    You sign them to pro contracts.
    You send them to Hamiton
    They dominate in Hamilton
    You bring them up to the Habs.
    They become top notch NHL players in their first years!
    You are ecstatic.
    You “bridge” them for 2 years, just in case their success was temporary.
    They win NHL awards for best in their position.
    They help you beat your arch rivals and lead your team to the ECF, even though you figured your team was still years away from competing at that level
    What is the next step?

  68. Ian Cobb says:

    This article link is above in red! HIO Hab Fans!!!

    Stu Cowan: Habs fans touched by boy with meningitis

    By Stu Cowan, GAZETTE SPORTS EDITOR

    • joeybarrie says:

      Great article by Stu.
      Great stuff from you and others in this story. Seeing that picture is great and tough at the same time. I had the same type of meningitis Tim Bozon had when I was a bit younger than he is.
      Its astonishing what humans can endure.
      Its also astonishing what human actions can do as well.

      I was in the hospital for a long time, and there was this very pretty girl who would come around and play cards with me. She was volunteering at the children’s hospital. Obviously I was in love with her. It was a great memory out of something terrible.

      Its really nice that Alex will have a great memory as well out of all this.
      Its really nice what we all have created here. It shows us what we are doing and that our feelings for The Canadiens, Montreal, Quebec, Canada and our fellow people go beyond the game.

      There is a guy I play soccer with (here in washington DC) who always says to me when I describe how OUR team did the night before. He always asks me where I was, cause he didnt see me on the ice…. Alluding that I say WE but am not on the team.
      I always tell him the same thing. I say you say that because you have never been to Montreal. You have never been to a Canadiens game. You have never been inside the Bell Center.
      Take a look for yourself, and experience the city and the game in our city and you will understand. Itll change how you see the things you love in your life….
      Just look at all the craziness about PKs contract. Look at all the passion.
      Go Habs Go
      Go PK Go
      and most of all GO ALEX GO. (where can I get a pair of those awesome Habs PJs???)

    • PrimeTime says:

      As much as I criticize posters here, the thought and prays for Alex are very touching. Well done all!! Get better soon Alex.

  69. lokojj says:

    Good morning all,
    I read HIO often, quite entertaining way to kill some time but never really posted.
    Somehow felt compelled to post with this PK situation. It reminds me of those protesting in front of the Bell Center to have the team resign Kovalev.
    Do I wish PK gets signed? Absolutely, the longer the contract the better. Should it be at any price? Definitely not.
    I am a fan of the team first and foremost and I will cheer for anyone who wears the bleu, blanc, rouge. Should it come down that PK gets traded, based on the value everyone seems to be giving him, the return would be great.
    I think people reaction is mainly due to his personality, so anything the team does to and with him is always taken as an insult to PK. Anything PK does gets extreme opposite reactions, let it be a hit on the ice or an error on the ice.
    As for those complaining about MB. Yes, PK is a great financial value to this team outside the hockey rink, but that is Geoff Molson’s problem not MB’s, maybe Molson can guaranteed him a well paid job after his career. MB’s job is to put a team on the ice within the rules of the salary cap. There is the argument that the cap will go up by a gazillion percentage in a few years. Well, that inflation will also apply to Gallagher, Galchenyuk and later on to Beaulieu and Tinordi. So I personally believe that IT would be irresponsible to give PK “whatever he wants”.
    How much should PK be signed for? I have no idea. Let it be $7M or $12M, that’s for MB and PK to work out or not (gets traded). At the end of the day, we survived quite well without re-signing Kovalev and come every September/October will be Go Habs Go, preferably with PK for the next 8 years or anyone else wearing the bleu, blanc, rouge.

    OK, hopefully I made some sense on what I typed.
    Now back to hibernation and will re-post in 8 years when fans will go up in arms when the team would not be giving PK a contract extension.

    cheers

    • PrimeTime says:

      Next time you post please don’t be so reasonable. This site is for mostly irrational thoughts.

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      Welcome, and permit me to opine that no one wants PK signed at any price. Most of us seem to willing to accept 8-9mil. The Habs don’t seem to agree.

      • Paz says:

        Exactly right Bird.

      • lokojj says:

        I personally agree $8M is the most I would go for as per on ice performance only. What he brings to the team outside the ice rink should be irrelevant and may have to find other incentives for him other than higher salary.
        Sorry if I made it sound like everyone wants to pay him whatever he wants. I simply meant to comment on those taking that position.

    • Ian Cobb says:

      Fantastic 1st post my friend. I agree, yes we want him, but not at any price. This is a team sport, not an individual sport. Spread the cap more evenly across the roster is the way to go!!
      Keep the post coming friend!

  70. HabFab says:

    Wow! That is bizarre! The last two posts I made have bounced me back to the first page. Anyone else having this “trip”?

    Edit; make that 3 posts.

  71. Maritime Ronn says:

    Lots of media quotes…which is nothing less than speculation about what was offered in money or term, and what was asked for.

    The new media mantra today is ‘best to be first and wrong, than last and right.’
    Take them with however many grains of salt you wish.

    Even the media Greats get it VERY wrong sometimes:
    Even though this was a trade, do you notice any TONE similarities along with the Sky Is Falling?

    June 18th/2010

    Red Fisher on the Halak Trade

    ” What you do, if you’re Canadiens GM Pierre Gauthier, is trade the guy who got them there in what for now must stand as the mother-of-all brain-dead decisions in recent memory.
    What was this guy thinking of ?

    I don’t know when the Canadiens’ GM thought about this trade, but I do know he couldn’t have had his thinking cap on when he made it.
    He can talk all he wants about something called a salary cap and the difficulty of fitting Halak into it. What Gauthier is really saying is that it’s a fit for Carey Price, who has yet to demonstrate HE BELONGS in the NHL…

    Where, however, do the Canadiens go from here now that their No. 1 goaltender is gone?

    from my mentor Jack Todd: “Is this the time to mention that this may be the worst trade since (Patrick) Roy to Colorado”

    Call it Christmas in June for the Blues. Call it anything you want, but the first thing this trade means is that it has turned off legions of Canadiens fans….

    Give him the money he wants. Buy him a steak at Moishe’s.
    Erect a statue of him alongside several of the Canadiens’ icons.

    http://www2.canada.com/montrealgazette/columnists/story.html?id=3bf17b3d-6b0d-4e59-92c2-ce516092f07f

  72. Ian Cobb says:

    HIO FANS COME TOGETHER!!

    Habs fans touched by boy with meningitis, by The Gazette’s Stu Cowan

  73. twilighthours says:

    Well, that sucked.

    • HabFab says:

      I see from the picture(s) you posted the other day that you ran in a night time marathon ;)

      And??

      • twilighthours says:

        Hey!

        Which pictures? I’m assuming you saw the ones from the Vermont 100 miler. That was actually my friend, but I paced him the last 30 miles, from 8pm to 5am the next day. He was pretty beat up, but he finished. It’s incredible how tough those guys and gals are.

        • HabFab says:

          Just letting you know amigo ;) Sometimes we post more then we want to.

          • twilighthours says:

            I’m ok with it. I’ve shared my email address with posters, pics of my kids. I’ve got nothing to hide, frankster. Someday, I’ll even get to a summit and punch hard habits in the nose in person.


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