Spector’s Top 10

Lyle Richardson, who blogs as Spector and knows his stuff, picks his All-Time Top Ten Canadiens

Guess who’s number one?

•  •  •

Good news from this morning’s practice:

AK46 was back in gear, with Tomas Plekanec and Alex Kovalev.

The third line against Carolina tomorrow night will be Robert Lang between SK74 and Christopher Higgins.

The Koivu line remains intact, and Guy Carbonneau will chose his fourth line from among Maxim Lapierre, Mathieu Dandenault, Steve Bégin and Georges Laraque.


  1. Habsrule1 says:

    I agree with you. Just imagine Patrick Roy playing with the Habs in the 70’s!

    “I can’t hear what Jeremy(Roenick) is saying because my Stanley Cup rings are in my ears” – Patrick Roy

    Go Habs Go!!


  2. Bugs says:

    Maybe it’s because I’m French but I always liked Gui!. I’m one of those who DOES think that he can be a LeClair.
    Hey, Gui certainly isn’t a Joe Thornton, right? Yet, how did JOE do when HE was 19 and 20?
    Kids need patience, no? Why? Cuz at one point, that patience will pay off.
    Is it not paying off with Gui?
    Shame on you, Batman. Why so serious?
    Peace Out.
    Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Earl of Fluppitburg, Baron of Flopshlupshire and Knight of the Flannel Republic.

  3. krob1000 says:

    I think Patrick took his teams and carried them on his shoulders….Kenny made the big saves when he needed to. Both were integral parts of their teams but is undeniable that Roy was more valuable to his teams Cup wins than Dryden was. Both times Roy won the Cup he also won the Conn Smythe (Dryden did this in his rookie year too though)….I know it shouldn’t count in the Canadiens ranking but to then leave, win the Cup with who used to be the Nordiques after being traded amid so much controversy…..that just confirmed what most knew all along….Patrick was the reason we won Cups in 86 and 93.

  4. MikeMcLaren says:

    I think to be fair you need to look at the team Schneider’s playing on.

    I would HAPPILY have a Schneider back there or a Kaberle back there or an O’Byrne back there rather than Brisebois.


  5. Habsrule1 says:

    I personally think Roy was better than Dryden, but it’s not a given. I’m sure you’ll have many fans say the opposite.

    “I can’t hear what Jeremy(Roenick) is saying because my Stanley Cup rings are in my ears” – Patrick Roy

    Go Habs Go!!


  6. LatheDog says:

    Does everyone agree with Patrick Roy rated ahead of Ken Dryden? In my opinion those two spots should be swapped for each other.

  7. Batalla says:

    Man, am I with you on #1. Gui! is one of those guys that everyone kept saying would be awesome, but I just NEVER saw it. He’s been much better this year, but he still misses the gaping nets every so often, so he still has a ways to go.

    I’m with you on #4, but then again, Ryder is no LeClair. He’s just not likely to make us regret the move (or lack of signing anyways), like LeClair did.

    Can we really be surprised that CBC would hire Milbury? The guy’s a totally nut-job (re: Islanders), but he fits right in. The second he starts saying how great Newfies are, that’s when we know the CBC has turned him for good.

    I’m a Habs fan, but as much as I love them, I’d saying getting to the conference finals might even be a stretch. I figure they’ll either go to the Finals, or lose in the second round. It’s really all about momentum for this team.

  8. MikeMcLaren says:

    Well in the interest of full disclosure I am absolutely one of the charter members of the “gutless bastards” club, as Gainey calls us.

    I have a profound dislike for Brisebois’ play and his actions towards the end of his first stint with the club. I was never a fan of the amazing pairing of Traverse and Patrice. I just wasn’t.

    Here is my problem at this point. I think there are better options. These options exist either outside the club or down in Hamilton. I would rather have someone make mistakes and then learn from them rather than continually make the same mistakes over and over again.

    Komisarek falls into the former and Brisebois the latter. O’Byrne the former and Brisebois the latter. Georges the former… you know where I’m going with that.

    Patrice Brisebois is, thankfully, in the twilight of his career. He isn’t getting any better. When he makes a mistake, as he does many times a game, it only magnifies my frustration over his career on a macro level.

    O’Byrne is better than he was last year. He’s not throwing pucks out in front of the net, he’s taking the body more and he’s not stealing purses.

    I do understand your point, the 6 goals weren’t all Brisebois’ fault, but oy vey it’s just a pattern that repeats again and again.


  9. doug says:

    Here are my random thoughts re: hockey today:

    1. Guillaume Latendresse, who I despised and disparaged last year, who didn’t deserve to be the one guy never in the doghouse, who I got sick of hearing getting defended on here. . . is a much, much better hockey player this year.

    2. Patrice Brisebois, who also fit the above description, is not. . . but he doesn’t bother me that much anymore. If he dresses for the playoffs. . .

    3. I can’t believe that Keith Tkachuk has eight goals or something already this year. I believe that Tkachuk’s return to goal-scoring, Bertuzzi’s solid play, and the recent decline of the American empire are all signs of Armageddon. . . in that order.

    4. I went on far past the due date saying that Michael Ryder would be a mistake, that he’d make us pay, that he’d get a hat trick in his first game against us, and that he was a great guy. I stand by the last one, and was dead wrong on the others; don’t miss him one bit.

    5. When someone is on television for years and proves he’s a fool, you don’t hire him. No one’s knocking down Don Cherry’s door to try to give him any sort of management job. So in that spirit, why would anyone ever, ever have decided that Barry Melrose was the last piece of the puzzle for Tampa Bay’s planned resurgence (i.e., the Flyers of ’09-’10?) And while Mike Milbury’s longevity on the Island will never make sense to anyone who watched him make goaltenders cry during arbitration, trade his best players, etc. . . how is he being given another life on HNIC and my local Bruins’ broadcasts?

    6. I predict the following for the playoffs, in the order assigned:

    New York Rangers

    (And I expect the Rangers to not be in the playoffs in one to two years due to a poor understanding of the cap combined with unexpected currency and financial crisis ramifications)

    7. And finally, and sadly for you centennial nostalgists, the Habs will bow out in the conference championship (but note my very poor imitation of Nostradamus in the first few points above.)

  10. nightmare_49 says:

    It’s Early but Still Interesting Notes : For those that were lobbying Gainey to obtain Mathieu Schneider(D)and his big contract over a month ago he’s minus -8, though plus/minus is a guide this isn’t a great start, other notables in the minus are Rod Brind’Amour at -5 and Chris Phillips at -6 and even more puzzling is Mike Fisher -5 and Kris Draper at -6 but both have no points. Marc Streit is averaging 26 mins/game and is a respectable minus 2 under the circumstances. I hope Lats#84 doesn’t get a fat head but he’s one point ahead of Alex Ovechkin and has a game in hand.

  11. Hockey11 says:

    I would like to see Dandy appointed #7 D man and let him get in some D reps at practice. He is a far better alternative than u know who. He has speed youth and experience at the position and he is a team guy.

  12. RetroMikey says:

    Never underestimate the Canes.
    I’ve got a feeling that it won’t be easy for us tomorrow night as well.
    We’ll have to work hard to get the W tomorrow night.
    Glad to see Andre K back!
    I want to see an offensive explosion tomorrow night proving that we mean business!

    “We will win the Cup only with Carey Price in the nets”

  13. TC says:

    Without Roy you can subtract two Cups off the Habs totals. I don’t know that Richard was ever that valuable on any of his 11 cup totals.


  14. TC says:

    I like Gump as much as the next guy but I don’t know if I’d put him ahead of Durnan, Hainsworth, and Vezina.


  15. Robert L says:

    Patrick Roy ahead of Henri Richard?

    Never, never, never!

    11 Stanley Cups and some folks still miss what his contributions were.

    I also suggest there is a place in the top 10 for either of Newsy Lalonde (124 goals in 99 NHL games) or Georges Vezina (325 straight games played). Without the contributions of those two from 1910 to the mid 1920’s, we aren’t here arguing the merits of Patrick Roy’s two Cups!

  16. nightmare_49 says:

    m m – I see you have a “soft” spot for little ‘D’. We already have enough small ‘D’. SIZE dude.

  17. Canus says:

    Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen Carbo put Laraque on the PP. Personally, I think it would be a good try, to put that huge frame in front of the goalie, and just sit there. We really don’t have anyone on this team that creates havoc in front of the net, and we desperately need one.

  18. kostityns746 says:

    i agree, with the 4th D-MAN. i think even though we’ve only played a few games and its early in the season, offense is not going to be a problem. our depth this year is amazing. we have 4 solid lines, which on any given night, atleast 3 of them seem to be finding the back of the net. all this , without kovy and pleks, really heating up yet. and now with higginsback, and obviousely will take him a few games to get his groove and timing back and AK47 back, we should have no problems. as for our D , i think we have a good situation, 3 solid D , with lotso f young prospects to fill in case of injuries, but rathen then bring in a sundin or gaborik who may disturb team chemistry, i feel we need a gritting 4th DMAN, with some playoff experience. Example, a JASON SMYTH, PRONGER/ Niedermayer type of defenseman. question is who? and what do we trade for it ????

  19. zamboni says:

    Absolutely right, Breezer was not the only one to make mistakes, but the fact remains that Breezer is by far the weakest link on this team and the only reason he is getting the ice time is because of his buddy who happens to coach the team.
    If you watched all of the previous games, you would have sensed that he is a weak link in an otherwise very strong team, unless of course you happen to wear Carbo branded glasses.

    Breezer had a better game than OB against Pheonix, but that shouldn’t warrant him to dress instead of OB specially against a team like the Ducks.

    If you pay close attention to his play, anytime he senses a check, he leaves the puck and tries to avoid the check, regardless of his usefulness as a 7th D, on any given day, I prefer to dress a rookie over Breezer.

    The reality is that a rookie can only get better with added ice time, and Breezer can only get worse with added ice time (age, physical fragility …)

    I didn’t want to harp on the Breezer while we were winning, even though it was warranted, I just hope the coach draws a line between friendship and a professional obligation.

  20. SlovakHab says:

    yea, that probably settles it now.
    Let’s see how the season goes.

    Two weeks ago, Peter Budaj was one of the worst goalies in the league, now he got the week’s second star.

    This fact speaks, other than of P.B. inconsistency, also about things changing quickly in hockey. Hence if we want to do some strategic decisions, we might need to wait a little and see how the team goes.

    There might be a good defenceman on the market in a few months, sleeping with his GM’s wife or stealing his coach’s lunchbox, that might come cheap.
    You know how the Avs got Roy, hot the Stars got Ribs.. Or how Slovan Bratislava got Lazo (if you happen to watch Slovak league, which I’m sure about) :)

  21. nightmare_49 says:

    Dave – Great to see you and Eric at the summit and your post points out what puzzles me, decisions. O’Bryne should be given the first thirty games to prove himself, good times and bad, especially after our start and against a physical team like Anaheim. Carbo goes out of his way to promote some of his young players and also goes out of his way to ruin the confidence of others like O’Bey, Halak, Chips and D’Agostini and it proves my point that he is inconsistent and his judgement is all about putting his stamp on this great team, it’s all about Carbo and his ego and it will never change no matter how well these young players do, Carbo has already decided and he’s a genius in his own mind and the pattern is there and the mould is set. God i wish Julien had this team and their resources. I’m sure Gainey will get us a big veteran shutdown ‘D’ before the deadline.

  22. Kaptain K says:

    I was also at the game, and you couldn’t of come up with a better analysis


  23. HabLion says:

    As Mike states below, it’s impossible to compare the two. How would Roy do with poor equipment, off-season’s of getting fat and smoking, and without the evolution of goaltending style. Same goes for Dryden the other way. As for the “Patrick took his teams and carried them on his shoulders”, I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement and hope Robert L is here to give you a link to his blog on this topic. I haven’t heard it put better. I put Roy behind Dryden just because of his classless behaviour.

  24. Fant-HAB-ulous says:

    You know I love Pleks…so maybe I see him through rose coloured lenses but on most nights –

    He’s our best face off man.
    He gets back REAL quick.
    He does this great thing with his skate where he lifts up the toe on the right, and you know something special is about to happen.

    I don’t think he overachieved last year at all. Even the year before last he started to really contribute offensively.

  25. Ian G Cobb says:

    DD, He has 13 does he not?

  26. HabLion says:

    We give Komi the benefit of the doubt because it doesn’t happen every time he is on the ice. Everyone has an off game, no one on the team doesn’t. However, no one is as consistently off as Brisebois.

  27. Ian G Cobb says:

    For your information when talking the ranking of goaltenders gets put up, it is undisputed, cause I say. 1st Jacque Plante, 2nd Patrick Roy, 3rd Ken Dryden, and 4th The Gumper Worsley

  28. StillattheMapes says:

    We’ve already had the booing and the hooting. Remember, this is a tough crowd — and more than a few sometimes they have been completely and routinely irrational — these “Romans” have boo-ed Serge Savard (brutally a few times) and yet have still managed to forgive him… like lions and tigers eyeing each other wondering about scraps on the plains of the Serengeti or in the motions in the jungle. Basic savages. They have boo-ed many players, even – yes even — a few grrrs towards my favorite (10). But this is basic hmmmm. But I really (really) do not like MTL (my city) booing the US National Anthem. Just stop that s…t. If you really want the city-state status that you wish, disengage the anchor and float past the rest….

    If I had to do a trade this year, well, none, maybe a “7D” pickup (No, I am actually talking this “D” s…t stuff) or maybe a real investment for another big guy to go with, but not all this “3rd-4th ‘D’ and all this “HS” — look we have a very good team. Geez, just let them play for a few games….. va bene

  29. jkmorris says:

    Nice to see AK46 back. I totally agree with Carolina GM Jim Rutherford. The league talks like it wants to eliminate shots to the head, but does nothing to elimiante it. A player can body check without going up high. I would like to see the league reaction if Sidney Crosby gets his bell rung and sustains a serious concussion.

  30. 24 Cups says:

    Mike – great point. Just as we get ready to retire Roy’s number, we will also be witnessing Brodeur’s changing of the guard in the record books. Objective fans of the game will have a very difficult time selecting the best goalie of all time. Not to even mention the career statement made by Terry Sawchuk.

    Going for the Brass Ring – 25 Cups in 100 Years

  31. DD says:

    I didn’t check this out but someone told me Pleky had 13 shots on net Saturday. Don’t worry about that line, they will get over this hump and start flashing the red light soon enough. They certainly have had the chances.

  32. Robert L says:

    Nice stat Teach!

    DD, thanks for pointing out that Provost and Richard went like fingers on a hand. You saved me alot of typing!

    Let’s settle it all up this way – there’s 15 players in the Habs all time Top 10! Two each tied for places 6 to 10.

  33. xaverian001 says:

    Funny how Carbo quipped that Ryder should give half his new contract to Julien … I’m thinking Breezer owes a good chunk of his contract to Carbo!!!

  34. jimbo says:

    top 3 on our team behind only Laps and Higgins

  35. Bradlo says:

    Dandi.. pure speed? Maybe in his prime but I dont think so anymore.

    The 4th line is definitely a tough situation. I think playing Laraque depends on the team. If its a rough team, play him. If not, I think we should try to use our speed.

    Against Carolina… Kostop – Lapps – Begin

  36. Number31 says:

    Doesn’t matter to me if they bow out mid-way through the playoffs but no point in thinking about it now. All I know is I smell a funtastic year ahead. Besides, there’s still one more season to this cup-a-decade thingy (next season still counts to this current decade). ;D

  37. NoTinFoilCups says:

    Wholeheartedly agree. Dryden played on powerhouse teams with the exception of his rookie season and didn’t face a barrage of shots for most of his career.

  38. Exit716 says:

    The Lions remind me of the Ballard era Leafs…totally horrid product on the field, but tons of fans in the stands and an old codger that couldn’t care less laughing his way to the bank.

  39. DD says:

    Bryan, don’t tell anyone one, but I’m pretty sure Yeat’s is going to vote Democrat this time around. It’s amazing what Bush’s 8 years has done for the Republican party.

    Anyway, I was hoping that Boone would pony up and let us use some of Montreal’s finer dancers to entertain us during the intermissions.

  40. MikeMcLaren says:

    Should we trade Gorges and a first rounder to Buffalo for Rivet and a fifth rounder?

    Just askin’…

    I am curious what Gainey will do at the deadline though and what he’ll give up to do it. You’re right, in the near future we might need a little bit of size and grit on the back end. Years from now our grit will be Komisarek (presuming he re-signs), McDonagh, Fischer and *maybe* Valentenko, but right now we could use some one with Franky B’s heart and Komisarek’s frame.


  41. Number31 says:

    Actually… I’ve always liked Pocket Rocket more than THE Rocket.

  42. Number31 says:

    Everyone knows the 4th is on constant rotation. Also, Dandy might be needed on defense every now and then.

  43. nightmare_49 says:

    Dave – I don’t agree with Yeats, we have to take this seriously and you know by the 5 minute mark of the 1st period he’ll be off on the NCAA, Columbia, Republicans or his bio, the regular, so he’ll have to do the intermissions,

  44. Habsrule1 says:

    I do believe that Brisebois should pretty much only play when necessary, but I also happen to notice when he plays well. I don’t think anyone else does here. Whether you agree or not, or like it or not, Brisebois was one of the better players, nevermind defensemen, in the playoffs last year. He made few mistakes and got the puck out of the zone quickly.

    If any of you actually believe that Carbo is just playing him cause they’re buddies, you’re wrong. Carbo wants to, and really has to win. Not too mention Gainey is way too smart to let that happen.

    I personally would play O’Bryne so that he can improve but I’ve also gained enough respect for Carbo to believe in the decisions he makes.

    “I can’t hear what Jeremy(Roenick) is saying because my Stanley Cup rings are in my ears” – Patrick Roy

    Go Habs Go!!


  45. DD says:

    Although I agree with your contention about Claude Provost being one of the greatest “shut down guys” ever, he was a right winger not a center. He the Pocket Rocket were used for the same purpose, especially against the great lines of that era like “Howe Lindsay Abel” line.

    Provost also helps strengthen my contention that these type of players are never given the respect they deserve.

    9 Stanley Cups and not in the Hockey hall of Fame? No wonder they have the Hall of Fame in that wanna-be hockey town, Torranna.

  46. nightmare_49 says:

    BTW Julien is french, i’m glad to see you agree with me that he doesn’t give breaks to the other young players that was my purpose for posting, have a great evening.

  47. DD says:

    Boone could call it, “Game Blog From Dumb and Dumber” All we have to do is figure out which one of us gets the “Dumber” moniker, or maybe we could get Yeats involved and then we would have “Dumbest”.

  48. Peter Young says:

    Tell it like it is, Robert L. I followed Henri’s entire career. Henri’s contributions to the team were unsurpassed for two full decades. He helped the Rocket shine in his last years. He became a team leader by setting the example, doing whatever was asked of him, and a great deal was asked of him because he could do so much so well. For longevity of service, for unparalleled loyalty, for consistent excellence over 20 seasons, for winning more often than anyone else, Henri deserves a place within the top 10. And he certainly ranks well above Patrick Roy.

  49. The Teacher says:

    Agreed. 11 Cups and not on the top ten list on the franchise he played for is laughable. He played on 46% of our franchise’s Stanley Cup winning teams!

    HEELLOOO! anybody hooome, lol.

    My suggested overtime format and other sports talk

  50. TC says:

    Agreed that Henri should be in the top ten.

    My point is that Henri while an amazing player and winner of eleven Cups was never the main reason why the Habs won a cup. Roy was; twice. Don’t forget that Roy is undoubtedly the greatest Canadiens player since Lafleur.

    As to Henri being the “shut down guy” and as a “Selke trophy winner”, may I respectfully submit that it was Claude Provost and not Henri who filled that role with the Canadiens.

    However, may I also second the disputed notion put forth by Boone that “Spector” knows his stuff. There’s no way Henri isn’t top ten (he was nine on my list, one behind Roy).


  51. DD says:

    I agree, Robert. It’s funny, but players of Henri Richards ilk never seem to get the respect they deserve. If he would have played on a lesser team, I’m sure, the Pocket Rocket would have been given full PP ice time and first line center status and then, the improved offensive numbers that go along with these benefits. People seem to forget that he had players like Jean Beliveau, Jacques Lemaire and Pete Mahovlich (to name a few) filling these roles for the team, and because of this, he never acquired big offensive numbers which some fans seem to think makes someone a great player.

    He quietly did his thankless job checking the elite players of the league and led his team to 11 Cups.I’m sure if you were to ask players from that era what they thought of him, you’d get the straight goods on what a great player he was.

    Like I said earlier, it is a really hard task to pick the top ten Habs ever, but as far as I’m concerned, leaving Henri Richard off the list is criminal.

  52. Tom S. says:

    HabLion, I’m also a fan of the Lions. I’ll be at Ford field for the Thanksgiving day game. Man, those guys might go winless this year. Looks like Millen ruined this team for the long haul. I was glad to see him gone.

  53. nightmare_49 says:

    Dave – During my rehab yesterday i thought of something. Seeing your a regular at the Bell Center these days and probably going to go thru withdrawal this Saturday when the Habs are in Long Island it’s time for you to add another craft to your summary, game blogging unplugged. Come exibition time next year i’m sure Mike Boone will be glad to let you have seat #39 and blog a game for us unplugged and it will give him a break, seeing one of the originals is a blogger you can be the first game blogger, of course mike would let Lee Hayes do your research.

  54. Robert L says:

    I don’t know that I specifically put it that way – I don’t recall the exact post. I might have suggested that there were more to those teams than people are given to credit, especially in 1993, when many overtime goals were scored without Roy having done much of significance in OT.

    There were some occasions, games and moments, when Roy did carry the club, but as on all Cup winning teams, the same can be said of the players in front of him. I’ve long believed that too much credit in one area, is never the proper way to assess things team wise. Leclair and Skrudland scored timely goals, Carbo shut down Gretzky, etc.

    It takes 23 men to raise that 33 pound Cup.

    I’m unsure what Roy article you are refering to, but here’s what I posted on him in the month of September.

    Roy Jersey Retirement A Ribbon On A Gift To Younger Fans And Old


    Patrick Roy Hockey Hall Of Fame Induction Speech – Inside The Heart And Mind Of A Driven, Persevering Warrior

    Patrick Roy, In My Dreams!


  55. Hockey11 says:

    We need a concerted boing of the Breezer like the Leafs do to their D when they don’t like them.

  56. HabLion says:

    I agree. The Lions are brutal. But, like the Habs, I gotta stick with my team through the lean years (very lean and lots of them)!

  57. nightmare_49 says:

    Pushing an agenda coming from you,lol.

  58. Robert L says:

    I’d say that from seeing how valuable he was to Cups 10 and 11, that it’s a pretty good estimation he was as valuable as Roy was on others.

    Pocket was always the shutdown guy nullifying the likes of Mikita and Hull, Esposito and Orr, Delvecchio and Howe. He did his job with Gainey like effectiveness, and was a constant thorn in the sides of the opposing team’s stars. On top of his defensive and PK duties, he had a knack for scoring a few big goals – a pair of Cup winners included.

    Henri is often underestimated because there was little focus on his game, perhaps unlike a stellar goaltender. His duty was to prevent others from shinning and had there been a Selke Trophy in the day, he might have bagged about three or four. Richard was a great all around player, the ultimate team player, in every aspect of the game and he gave the Canadiens great depth at center, which had much to do with making the Canadiens a superior team in the day.

    I feel that in any list of all time Habs greats, the entire career needs to be considered. Roy spent half of his in Colorado. Henri I doubt, could have ever thought of playing for any other team. In times of trouble he endeavored to continue on, playing through his displeasures and setbacks.

    In all, Richard played more games than anyone else in the uniform. How on Earth is he not in the top 10? For me, the fact that someone leaves him out says more about their inability to understand what he brought.

    I won’t dispute Roy’s contributions to a pair of Cups and ten great seasons, but it is my experience that he is often ranked depending on the analyst’s perspective. I understand fully why it is that Habs fans of the younger generation place a great emphasis on what he did.

    In the bigger picture, I don’t believe that it is fair that a player who contributed to only two Cups, no matter how dominant one chooses to perceive his role, belongs in the top 10 of a team with 24 Stanleys.

    I’m sorry, but Lyle Richardson’s list disproves Boone’s statement that he knows his stuff.

  59. Kristopher7 says:

    so if line 4 is lapierre, dandy, BGL and begin where is tom the bomb ? :( he works hard this season and got a goal last night!

  60. nightmare_49 says:

    Steve – Though i don’t agree with your summary i must say these games against cup contending teams means much more this year on any analysis of our team. You post that we were outmuscled and didn’t utilize our speed and skill and we outshot them two to one and had 51 shots bids well with this team if we use our speed and skill as you say and maybe we’ll get 80 shots, just being a tad sarcastic. The game the Habs were to play was dictated by the coach’s decision to dress Breezer and go all out and steamroll a team that was playing it’s third game in four nights on the road to boot but it didn’t work as we didn’t cover up and the old transition game a la the Sabres burnt us. I know there was a rare full schedule on Saturday night but why were two hand picked by Walkin flunkies together to ref this big game, wasn’t there enough riots last year with those two.

  61. linp says:

    Me, I would blame more the forward not back checking. One poster reported that the Duck practises breaking out from their zone. They really put that into good use.

  62. HabLion says:

    Hey Robert L, if you’re still there can you post a link to your blog regarding Patrick not carrying the team on his shoulders during our last two cups. (I believe it was on your blog….hope it is because I have been talking highly of it today)

  63. HabLion says:

    I agree with you 100% on the off-season training. I was just saying that the game was completely different back then and impossible to fairly compare the two goalies. It’s an apples and oranges thing. I agree that Patrick is one of the best of all time, no question. I just think you should read Robert L’s blog….we had a pretty solid team in those cup years.

  64. DD says:

    Bryan, it’s funny you should say that. I was surprised to hear from several of our mutual friends at the Summits, who post here regularly, that they have been sent ‘cease and desist’ e-mails from the powers that be on this site for getting a little too rambunctious.

    I, on the other hand, have never had such a warning. Go figure?

  65. linp says:

    On the other hand, he may block the shots for the opponent.

  66. habs domain says:

    I just heard that Breezer will probably bi the lineup tomorrow night. OMG!
    When will Carbo put the team before friendship with his buddy? If Breezer coughs up the puck, you have my permission to start booing him. That will take him out of the lineup.

  67. DD says:

    No Ian, he has 11. The Roadrunner (my favourite player) had 10.

  68. nightmare_49 says:

    Your absolutely correct about Mikko and shouldn’t even be thought of due to his franchise status and also besides Bouwmeester why would any team give up a valuable ‘D’ if there a contender unless they get much better back.

  69. Bugs says:

    According to runes unearthed near the corner of Ontario and Pie-IX a few weeks back,
    Aurèle Joliat was ALSO a serious ass-kicker.
    Coulda given’im num10 outta respect.
    Peace Out
    Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Earl of Fluppitburg, Baron of Flopshlupshire and Knight of the Flannel Republic.

  70. jimbo says:

    Saint Patty is one of the greatest of all times.To even think Montreal gets a sniff of their last 2 cups with him is absurd.Patrick was really the only reason to watch the canadiens in the 90’s.Oh,and about their offseason training,that’s why now they’re called professional atheletes,ask Wellwood on how the old school techniques are working out for him

  71. 24 Cups says:

    TC – you beat me to the punch. I will always appreciate the fact that Roy won the last two Cups for us but this JCSS status is a little much for me. To even think about rating him ahead of true Hab legends (that you just mentioned in your reply) is laughable. Once Brodeur extends his records and finally retires, Roy fans are going to have to get used to the fact that Patrick was the second greatest goalie of the modern era.

    Going for the Brass Ring – 25 Cups in 100 Years

  72. Habsrule1 says:

    I agreed with you to a point, up until the last line. The fact that Brodeur breaks a couple, or even all of Roy’s records in the regular season will not prove he is/was a better goalie than Patrick. I’ll put Roy’s 3 Conn Smyths up against anything Brodeur accomplishes. Roy’s outstanding play in the playoffs is why he is the best of all time, in my humble opinion. I’d even venture to say that while he was all about winning always, he never quite turned it on until the playoffs started.

    “I can’t hear what Jeremy(Roenick) is saying because my Stanley Cup rings are in my ears” – Patrick Roy

    Go Habs Go!!


  73. krob1000 says:

    There is one point that gets overlooked when we compare our stars of yesterday and their winning tradition to today’s ….the fact that every year they had a one in six chance of winning is VERY significant. I will not get sucked into harping on any of our greats to me based on the FAR GREATER difficulty level of winning cups in the moderna era with far more teams I think Roy’s achievements are that much more special. NO other player has been the Go to Guy on teams that were not dynasty or mini dynasty teams and pulled off what he did. Lemieux and his Penguins were a force for a three or four year window, Brodeur’s Devils…a perrennial powerhouse, the Wings….ditto, the Islanders, Oilers, Canadiens of the 70’s …..all dynasties…….Roy was the dynasty….that is what is so special about him. The fact that he has been a jerk at times has marred his rep but his play is IMO definitely up there with the big boys. Saying Brodeur is better than Roy based on statistics is like saying Mark Messier is the second best forward of all time because statistically he is. The reality is you can’t compare apples and oranges but there are no apples that compare to Roy…the game was different back then and our legends are legends for a reason. Roy is the best goalie of his generation and the best goalie of the next generation will be said to be the best of all itme and so on. Roy’s generation of fans, like him or not will almost unanimously agree that he is the best of his time….that alone makes him deserving to be on that list.

  74. Robert L says:

    When people get going in this “all time best business”, how come the perspective of different era’s never works it’s way into the conversation. Lots of what is read in regards to Roy being the all time best is so convoluted, it is frankly laughable.

    It is akin to suggesting that U2 are a better band than the Beatles were because they have sold more concert tickets (fact) and more records (not).

    Players from previous era’s cannot compete numbers wise, as not enough games were played in a season back then. Factor in that for all players that ice condition and equipement were inferior to today’s products, that rules differed and evolved, that NHL competition was more intense, defensive schemes were not as defined, and so on.

    Then you can get into the who made who great argument. Why is Plante considered inferior to Roy because the latter made perceived weaker teams better? Is there any conscience given to Plante making a great team greater? How will it ever be known?

    It will be trumpeted loudly when Martin Brodeur passes Patrick Roy’s win benchmark that the Devil’s stopper is now the greatest goalie of all time. He won’t be, he’ll just be the winningest.

    In truth, numbers often fail to tell an entire story. They are in fact more of a resource guideline than anything else, at best.

    I’ve done incredible amounts of research into the game’s history, and learn an awful large amount every time I read. I’ll never consider that I have any more knowledge than someone who’s lived to tell and offer their perspective. Speaking with some older fans at this weekends game, I grasped that fact pretty fast.

    I have an older friend that doesn’t agree that Jacques Plante was better than Bill Durnan or Turk Broda, two men generally considered by experts to be among the best ever. Most fans arguing Roy’s status today likely don’t even know of these men.

    All told, it takes an incredibly in depth historical perspective to back up and make a valid argument for any player today ever being the best. Placing Roy in the Canadiens top three players of all time is quite a contentuous proposition, regardless of hallucinogenic intake consumed.

    Years ago, I had a similar argument going with a Wayne Gretzky fan over who was the greatest goalscorer of all time. He relied strictly on numbers, which has a certain merit of course. When I brought up Rocket Richard’s 50 in 50, he shrugged it off as a fluke of sorts. After I informed him of the circumstances of the era’s game, and pointed out that Richard played eight or nine times a season against the same heated rivals, he stopped talking. Once I underlined that Rocket actually went a span of 87 games over a season and a half, scoring 91 goals, the Gretzky feat lost a little polish.

    For the record, Richard scored 23 goals after returning from injury in the final 22 games of the 1943-44 season. In the Habs Cup run that followed, he added 12 more in nine games. The following season he achieved the 50 in 50 mark, adding six more in six playoff games.

    Of further curious note, Richard felt he was a finished player in his final three seasons with Montreal. He felt beaten down and old, defeated by injuries and father time. All Richard managed in those three injury plagued campaigns were seasons of 15, 17, and 19 goals, or 51 in a combined 121 regular season games. In 22 playoffs game in those years, he added 12 more. A quick calculation shows that he scored in close to 40% of his team’s games as a “finished” 38 year old. Oh yeah, he won Cups in those years as well.


    As a 38 year old, Wayne Greztky scored 9 goals on a Rangers team outside the playoffs two year’s running. Now there’s no doubt who has scored more career goals, but who truly was the game’s greatest goal scorer?

    Rocket never got to chew up on the Winnipeg Jets or Canucks. Gretzky never faced a fierce 1950’s Red Wings or Canadiens dynasty nine games a season.

    Never undervalue the context of history.

  75. TC says:

    We can debate the best goalies of all-time until we’re blue in the face … but the most important ???

    Undoubtedly, Jacques Plante.


  76. krob1000 says:

    Then Boom Boom Geoffrion must be up there then as well as he lit the same heated rivals up for a scoring title…..I will agree and I did point out that it is like comparing apples and oranges and different eras but the argument works both ways. Yes the game was different but it could be argued that the Rocket benefitted by laying the same teams over and over by learning their nuances as well. As for the longevity crap …is Chris Chelios then the best defensmen ever because he is old….that is laughable. Bobby Orr ….is he not one of the best because by 38 he was selling Planters peanuts…..ridiculous. In Richard’s day the debate was strong and from everything I have read very divided as to who the better player was…..Howe or Richard. Gretzky absolutely DOMINATED his era and was in a league by himself for 10 years. IMO in the modern era only three athletes have achieved Gretzky like domination…..Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods and Roger Federer. On top of Gretzk’s own scoring ability he turned Bernie friggin Nicholls into a 150 point guy ….Bernie Nicholls. Gretzky made everyone else a better goal scorer too. Richard is easily the best Habs goal scorer of all time but even with my passion for the HAbs I cannot possibly imagine anyone ever coming up with an argument to even slightly sway my view that Gretzky is hands down the best player of all time.
    You can’t really compile an accurate all time list as everyones will be different and everyone will have a skewwed personal flavour.. What we can say about Roy is that he is the best goalie since expansion……that is pretty damn impressive….you can argue with Marty and you will have a good argument but Roy will still win over 75 percent of the opinions of people asked….either way best or 2nd best over the last 30 years derfintely entitles him to be on any all time list out there. In Plante’s day …..was he the best goalie of the last 30 years like Roy is today……I don’t know enough history to say but I do know that in 30 years folks like you who delve back into the “history” will be blown away by what Roy accompished as the crap about his personal side will fall by the wayside and his will to win and AMAZING feats will shine through.

  77. TC says:

    Plante’s accomplishments do stand up to the scrutiny of time.

    7 Vezina trophies (most ever)
    6 Stanley Cups (most for any goalie)
    1 Hart Trophy (very rare for a goalie)

    plus being the greatest innovator the position has ever known.

    Interestingly, if you go onto other hockey boards, you will find a significant amount of people who feel that Dominic Hasek was a better goalie than Roy, keep in mind that Hasek has more Hart’s and Vezina’s than Roy.


  78. krob1000 says:

    First of all I am in NO WAY insinuating anything negative about Plante. Yes Plante’s contributions have made generations of goaltenders happy and generations of Dentists a little bitter. Roy also popularized the butterfly (I believe Glenn HAll is actually probably the innovator) and is often credited for the abundance of post Roy French Canadien goalies that emerged after him. Roy made it fashionable and attractive for the best athletes to want to be goalies. This is a very general statement but for the most part the best athletes did not have anything to do with goaltending …after Roy this was not the case as everyone in La Belle Province wanted to be a goalie. That stuff is not often mentioned anymore but I remember years ago watching a segment where they interviewed several of the up and coming French Canadian goalies and they all said Roy was their idol …..I remember on the segment one guy said Grant Fuhr and the interviewer said he thought Wayne Gretzky was actually the better goalie in Edmonton because he always kept the puck in the other end.

    Hasek was a regular season superstar who never did anything when it mattered (excluding the world stage of course). He won one cup with a stacked Red Wings team at 38 years old a la Ray Bourque and his other cup win came as a backup. I feelt aht oneis kind of tainted. Yes he won two hart trophies, and a massive pile of hardware….. very impressive but he never led anyone anywhere. There is no argument there at all. Sports are filled with guys who are regualr seson superstars but fold in the pressure…..fortunately there are also guys like Roy whose game elevates when it matters most. Dom was awesome but so was Mike Palmateer…lol…not really comparing those two.

    Ask anyone when the flowers bloom in the Spring who they would want to be playing in front of and no question if giventhe choice between Roy and Hasek ….anyone with a head on their shoulders would say Roy. Not to mention Dom is a bit of a weirdo…..I loved watching his unorthodox highlight friendly style and I found his quirkiness interesting…..but most people just think of him as plain weird. He also has had his share of off ice problems as well as Roy. The Dominator was awesome and I would place him right after Roy and Marty as best goalies since the 70’s where cases could be made for Dryden and PArent.

  79. DMAN says:

    I haven’t been on here in a while so what I am about to write has probably been said. I heard (I think on CBC’s HotStove) that Gainey may be open to a three way trade with Minnesota if it benefits the Habs. So maybe Minny ships Gaborik to habs and habs ship him somewhere else for a top 4 Defenseman. This works for me and could be just what Florida would need to send Bouwmeester our way. My Apologies if this has already been discussed.

  80. Robert L says:

    Last week, Gainey categorically denied any interest whatsoever in Gaborik. He specifically stated that he did not call inquiring about him.

  81. DMAN says:

    That does not have any bearing on the fact that Risebrough called several teams, more than likely including Montreal, and a three way trade means Montreal does not end up with Gaborik! So the possibility remains open. It may not be likely but has not been denied as you suggest.
    Individual records are nice to get, but before the season starts, you want to play to win the Stanley Cup! ~ Guy Lafleur

  82. Robert L says:

    Hot Stove should be called hot air!

    GM’s call 29 teams when they want to unload a player, but rarely call the press when interested in someone. They pull this stuff out their asses. I don’t waste a second thinking about it – it’s fruitless!

    It would be nice to end up with Bowmeester, but it would be even nicer to hold onto the core of players becoming UFA’s next year. With a declining buck, I don’t believe we’ll see potential super star contacts being handed out, much less Gainey taken on more expensive assets.

    Guess that would make for a boring Hot Stove segment.

  83. DMAN says:

    Ultimately, we will just have to wait and see what really happens which will probably be nothing. Speculation makes for great TV though Robert, I can’t believe you don’t take AL STRACHAN seriously. He was so sure that Lecavalier was unhappy in Tampa and headed to Montreal. I think that was at least a month before he signed a lifetime deal. I just thought the three way deal sounded intriguing and still think it may work even if it is for someone with less star power than bouwmeester.
    Individual records are nice to get, but before the season starts, you want to play to win the Stanley Cup! ~ Guy Lafleur

  84. Number31 says:

    Yay! Good to know.

  85. DD says:

    Saku said something interesting at the beginning of the season. He said that on this new team a top player or line could go through a slump, and we would still have players to pick up the offensive load.

    I wouldn’t worry too much about Pleky’s line, they have had their share of chances and it’s only a matter of time until the flood gates open.

  86. Number31 says:

    Honestly, I see it as teams being more aware of the Kovy/Pleks/AK line and trying to shut them down more while forgetting about the sneaky dangerous 2nd line. I also think the 3rd line is going to start to pick up as another sneaky line… Even the 4th has potential, and not just to annoy the hell out of the opposition. I can see the team confusing others for a while before they start to figure out what to do. (That is, if everything goes according to plan).

  87. spirit of the Habs says:

    Habs better win tomorrow the ducks game left me with a bad taste. Canes are a good team and have played us well. Im expecting a nice win however. Hopefully Kovalev plays good cuz so far ughhh i dunno.

  88. Xtrahabsfan says:

    And Ted Harris and always lost a fight Terry Harper.Pierre Bouchard

  89. Xtrahabsfan says:

    Donald Brasheer

  90. likehoy says:

    laraque? he’s played like 4 games…you have to wait to see if he’s successful in a few more

    missing name: gino odjick hahaha

  91. ebk says:

    Petr Svoboda deserves to be on the list for never backing away from the freight-train named Cam Neely. Neely pounded Svoboda through the boards on most nights and the little czech never once shit the bed and threw the puck away. He hung in, made the play and got blasted!

    Mike McPhee was a beaut as well

  92. habsgod says:

    i know he’s played 4 games but he’s is the current heavyweight champ in the league amongst the tough guys!

  93. habsgod says:

    how could have i forgot gino odjick! well no body’s perfect!

  94. habsguy says:

    heres one….Mike Keane…

  95. spirit of the Habs says:

    How about Sprague Cleghorn

    Canadas Team, Gods Team You name it The Habs are it

  96. Habs fan in SF says:

    i’m just basing this listing on 1985 – present (since i’ve became a fan):

    chris nilan
    john kordic
    lyle odelein
    todd ewen
    donald brashear

    all i have is a top 5 actually … maybe honourable mention to shayne corson …

  97. G-Man says:

    I don’t know about Lemieux. Didn’t he used to fall down a lot and not get up? In no particular order excepting #1:
    Fergy, Harris, Nilan, Kordic, Pierre Bouchard, Robinson, The Rocket, The Pocket Rocket, Butch Bouchard and Lyle “The Fish” Odelein.
    2008/09 is the season of the Habs

  98. jrshabs1 says:

    Dave Manson
    Sheldon Surray
    Murray Barron

  99. TC says:


    Plante would definitely be in the conversation about the greatest goaltender of all time, as would Dryden.

    Harvey would definitely be in the conversation about the greatest
    defenseman of all time.

    Richard would definitely be in the conversation about the greatest right winger of all time.

    Beliveau would definitely be in the conversation about the greatest center of all time.

    In 1998 the Hockey News convened a panel of fifty experts asking about the greatest hockey players of all time. Plante was the second ranked goalie, Harvey was the second ranked defensemen, Richard was the second ranked right winger, and Beliveau was the third ranked center.

    I would say that qualifies them for a discussion of the greatest player ever at their position.


  100. Andrew Sharpe says:

    Roy should be top three. None of the players except Roy on that list would enter a discussion of greatest player at their position of all time.

  101. Xtrahabsfan says:

    Here’s a question,who are the all time 10 best tough guys to play for the Habs?

  102. habsgod says:

    in no pecticualr order:
    gorges laraque
    john ferguson senior
    larry robinson
    chris nilan
    john kordic
    maurice” rocket” richard
    chris chelios
    mike macphee
    patrick roy
    claude lemieux

    i don’t know about some of these names on here but i thought i’d just enter a few for the fun of it and see what other habs fans and poster think! i hope my list has some of the same names as theres!

  103. The M says:

    the Habs have to resign Komisarek for a contract this summer, any estimations on length and cap hit?
    Tom Gilbert got $24 million for six years in Edmonton and Ron Hainsey got his ridiculous contract…..

  104. nightmare_49 says:

    ESPN’s Scott Burnside has 5 great points and a must read for Monday reading : 1) Strachan’s crap 2) Gaborik’s worth 3) Bouwmeester diminishing value 4) Burke and another memory lane trip 5) Samsonov after signing ….. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=

  105. Robert L says:

    Bryan, it’s not Monday anymore. Should I wait another six days before clicking the link! :)

    Just a poke my friend. Thanks for the link on a slow game day here.

  106. DD says:

    Jeez, are we the only ones who know about the ‘Sergei Super Size Salary Slide’ routine?

  107. nightmare_49 says:

    ESPN’s Scott Burnside has 5 great points and a must read for Monday reading : 1) Strachan’s crap 2) Gaborik’s worth 3) Bouwmeester diminishing value 4) Burke and another memory lane trip 5) Samsonov after signing ….. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=3666852 ……….. Disregard link below.

  108. cautiousoptimist says:

    Anyone else think Stubbs and Boone brought in the “Other Wing” bloggers now because they knew a labour dispute was impending and didn’t want to leave us in the lurch without our fix?

    1. http://www.flickeringpictures.com – not a hockey site, but still kinda neat
    2. Josh Gorges on Montreal’s attack: “They’re comin’, they’re comin’ and they keep comin’. Just line after line, wave after wave…”

  109. nightmare_49 says:

    Empty Netters – Tidbits and more .. by Seth Rorabaugh ….. http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/emptynetters/archive/2008/10/28/about-the-sharks-10-29-08.aspx …………………….. The NHL Morning Papers (Tuesday Edition) : FlyersKeep 18 year old Luca Sbisa, Atlanta’s Attendance Brutal and Sergei Zubov Returns Saturday and more tidbits .. by Richard Pollock ….. http://www.illegalcurve.com/2008/10/28/nhl-morning-papers-tuesday-edition-capitals-have-a-classy-organization-atlantas-brutal-attendance-figures-and-zubov-to-return-on-saturday/ ………………. All Robert Lang .. by Kevin Mio ….. http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=327b5bfa-5c6b-4223-babf-e554f9435651

  110. Robert L says:

    It could be eh! I’ve given lots of thought to that notion as well.

    Support your Gazette staff:


  111. nightmare_49 says:

    Robert – Slow is not the word. Thanks again.

  112. RetroMikey says:

    Is it me, or do I sense the players are overconfident going into the season tagged to finish first in the East this season?

    “We will win the Cup only with Carey Price in the nets”

  113. Les-Habitants says:

    Hopefully the loss to the Ducks woke them up

  114. Kilgore Trout says:

    Slightly off-topic, but it’s a slow Habs news day:
    Swedish hockey fans delay match with dildo downpour

  115. Fant-HAB-ulous says:


  116. Prax says:

    No Kostopoulos? I guess his goal meant nothing…

  117. Hoegarden says:

    3 of the top 10 are goalies ! Henri Richard should to be in there with 11 Stanley Cup rings. This is one record that likely will never be equalled.

  118. JIMVINNY says:

    That is one record that will stand till the end of time. The NHL will be forgotten long before that record will be.

  119. Alex Leduc says:

    I agree. Why not Tom the Bomb?
    And I would try Higgins on Koivu’s line, because of their history.

    AK46 Pleks Kovy
    Higs Koivu Tang
    Lats Lang SK74
    Tom Laps BGL

    This would be unstoppable.

    Sit useless Dandy and Begin

  120. HabsColor says:

    AK46 Pleks Kovy
    Higs Koivu Tang
    xxx Lang SK74

    This would be Habs’ perfect top 3 lines. But, now, Higgins is not ready to be there cuz he has been away for too long time. Look at his last play! He needs 2-3 games to retrieve the feeling. He will be back soon, for sure.

  121. Hockey11 says:

    Team had not lost with useless Dandy, what is your beef? He has been very solid and is a better skater than Begin and BGL and he is more responsible defensively than TTB of Mental Max. He is also better at D than Breezer. Does not appear useless to me!!

    Look at the playoffs last year. We won with Dandy and as soon as Carbo put in 84 we lost almost every game. I want my fourth line to be a defensive line, that is how I judge them.

  122. tony d says:

    ‘useless’ is an adjective that should be reserved for Brisebois only
    don’t get me started!

  123. justintime says:

    4th line should be Lapierre with Kostopoulos and Laraque…

    And I hope O’Byrne is back in the lineup in place of Brisebois! I’d rather have a young kid making mistakes than an old veteran…

  124. Hockey11 says:

    BGL is very rusty and should rotate in and out of the line up until he shows he is anywhere near game condition. Dandy should be #7 D, Breezer is done.

  125. Mr.Hazard says:

    So finally a full line-up?

    Ex nihilo nihil fit

  126. Sakus Evil Twin says:


    Given Tom’s work-rate and his goal on Saturday it’s hard to believe his name in an omission in error.

    Although I think the 4th line will rotate frequently this year, I agree wholeheartedly with the consensus of Laraque, LaPierre and Kostopoulos.

    A shout out also to the following who shared closely in an awesome day on Saturday. You’ll doubtless be unsurprised to know that I spent Sunday with the mother of all hangovers – but so worth it. I also don’t think I’ve been that wet since I was born.

    – Chorsky
    – Jason
    – I owe the Dragonflies a beer or 7.
    – Sul…
    – Connecticut Man
    – and all the others who’s tags have been lost to one too many pints of Moosehead.

    Congrats to Ian et al for organising a stellar day out!

    I’ll post photos when they’re good’n ready.

    I like cake and I like women

  127. Les-Habitants says:

    That’s the best 4th line we can put out there…maybe with Begin switching in, at either LW or C, from time to time.

  128. TC says:

    Doug Harvey at #6, way too low. Personally, I don’t know how Henri Richard eludes the top ten.

    An alternate ranking.



  129. sidhu says:

    Imagine if Flyers or Blues fans did the same when Palin came on the ice….

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