Saving $$$ on scouting?

In Marc Antoine Godin’s La Presse story on the scout sackings, a source speculates that the Canadiens will cut costs by using video instead of human beings freezing in junior and college rinks.

The Canadiens now employ nine scouts, some of whom probably are waiting for the other show to drop.

The Leafs have 24 scouts, including four pro scouts (the Canadiens have one, Doug Gibson) and five in Europe (Canadiens have one, Hannu Laine, based in Finland).

We’ll know more today if Pierre Gauthier meets the media at development camp in Brossard.

Guy Boucher is expected to be there as well.

Workouts begin this afternoon at 2 and run till 5.

Pat Hickey sets things up.

Check back later today for news from camp.


  1. adamkennelly says:

    while I’d be happy to have Colby – not gonna do the trick.  This team is soft as hell and way too easy to play against.  Being a more difficult opponent would inherently create more space for the skilled guys (which team has plenty of give or take) and result in more wins and playoff success.


    I’ll take Nystrom, Prust and Carkner for K Bros and Hammer – then use the money for a top 6 skill guy and this teams is 100% improved.

  2. kempie says:

    I don’t think it’s that he doesn’t know what’s needed. More like easier said than done. I’m sure he tried very hard to land the important pieces necessary but most of those big playoff type guys just weren’t interested. Even though the team is much better now than in past years, especially from a playoff standpoint, we’re still looking at skilled, big hearts but small body guys. I think it’s just the best he could do at the time. Maybe now that they’ve shown they can win in playoffs this year, the CH will be more attractive to guys like Kovy. I bet a guy like that might look at this team now and think “if they added me and Holmstrom we could maybe get it done”. I think this team knows what it needs, it’s just not that easy to acquire all the pieces. Remember BG got it done in Dallas. You’re right about the Grets as a coach thing. I know he didn’t have a great team but he was definitely a below average coach and I don’t get that. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of an example of an awesome coach who had a stellar playing career.

  3. showey47 says:

    yet those ‘tiny tots’ are still first and third in playoff goal scoring with another tiny tot from the flyers in 2nd.

  4. ManApart says:

    Hey, it blows my mind also. How can a guy not know how to build a Cup winner, when he was on so many? That’s why I said it makes no sense. The thing is, it was true. Look at the past 6 years. Especially the 5 first ones. The one-dimensionalness, the lack of key ingredients in your bottom 6, that can easily be had, the lack of foresight to see that your team can’t match up to playoff styled teams like Philly or Jersey or old Carolina. Maybe it’s like some great players can’t coach. You think how can they not know the game and relay it to others? it happens (Gretzky). i guess it can happen to Gm’s also.

  5. ManApart says:

    All true statements.However, I withhold judgement on PG until he has had some time in the #1’s chair.

  6. ManApart says:

    Brad Richards actually had an awesome year. He’s exactly the type of guy this team needs. He’s a big step up on Gomez.There were rumours Gainey was interested in him in Tampa. For what the Stars gave up, it looks like it wouldn’t have been too hard. As for Gainey, what am supposed to tell you? I guess we shouldn’t blame any Gm or coach for decisions, because how were they supposed to know a certain guy was going to turn out bad. Bottom line is Gainey was responsible for the team personnel. It wasn’t only a few guys or a few drafts I’m looking at. It was his whole regime. All the decisions. In the end, it certainly comes out on the wrong side of 0. Where zero is the break even mark between good and bad.

  7. homerbowen says:

    But our tiny tots are 5″7″…we must move some of our tiny players. Too many on one team.

  8. TomNickle says:

    No kidding!  I’d rather not wake up the morning after game 4 and read that Toews, Kane and Keith were all murdered in that piss hole city and that in an unrelated story, the Police took a vacation that night.

    If Marvin Harrison can walk the streets of that city unscathed, I highly doubt that they would so much as interrogate a suspected Blackhawk killer

  9. KenD29 says:

    Based on the Habs history over the last few year’s draft, looks like they have had BOY scouts!

    Tonight we skate with them, Tonight is our night!

  10. TomNickle says:

    So you’re saying that he should have had a better idea of what the mental states of each of those players(Ryder, Higgins, Andrei Kostitsyn) were before either signing them or calling them up?

    He should have known that once the players got to the big club they were going to act like 16 year olds with Daddy’s credit card?

    I think it’s just as much of a crapshoot when it comes to the bigger guys than it is a specific science.  Guys like Lupul and Penner are classic underachievers.  Even a guy like Brad Richards, once thought to be a top 3 NHL player, just had a terrible year.

    Sure Gainey takes some deserved lumps but…..they could’ve drafted Gilbert Brule instead of Carey Price.  That’s one big example of a job well done.  

  11. kempie says:

    Okay, I’ve got to step in here. Gainey “didn’t understand what a Stanley Cup team should look like”. So winning 5 of them himself, once with two separated shoulders, and another as GM, he wouldn’t have any idea of what it takes physically? Are you serious? No offense, but you’re either too young to remember, you just don’t get it or you’re just high. I doubt that BG forgot what it took since his cup days. The reality is that, when he took over, this franchise was in a very deep hole that was going to take a lot of work to get out of. After the Houle/Tremblay regime, players were not lining up to play for the Canadiens, no matter what their size or truculence. People forget what BG inherited. Honestly, please don’t think I’m attacking you, but to say that BG has no idea what it takes to win a Stanley Cup blows my mind.

    BTW, I said the same thing as AV58 – Hawks in 4.

  12. SeriousFan09 says:

    I’m rooting for the Hawks in 5 so they can celebrate their win at home.


    – I shall always remember Captain Koivu.

  13. SeriousFan09 says:

    Yes but O’Byrne is further back on the depth chart in Montreal because there are better defencemen ahead of him, VAN just has nothing so O’Brien tends to play with the better offensive players to help his +/- and that’s not just me saying, I chat with some Nucks fans and they’re firmly of the opinion the team doesn’t have a chance until they get at least 1 elite defencemen.



    – I shall always remember Captain Koivu.

  14. ManApart says:

    Of course he tried. it’s not like he wanted the team to fail. He did what he thought was best. I’m just saying for whatever reason, his reasoning, evaluation, stubborn single mindedness was off. The majority of his ideas and moves: drafting, signings, policy on signings, trades were off. That’s my point. he wasn’t too good as a GM. Or at least not good enough. He’s gone now, so let’s see if PG can do better. It’s not going to be easy with the cap, but I heard he’s a very hard worker and I’m willing to give him a chance.

  15. G-Man says:

    Flyers deserve to be ousted in 4.

  16. krob1000 says:

    Richards is only 5’11” too and Simon Gagne is listed at 6’0″ but that seems generous.

  17. ed lopaz says:

    here’s one way to consider:


    get rid of andrei, big but sagging tits, and open a spot for a big winger.

    get rid of metro – sorry i love the way he plays, but we need to be bigger

    bring in White, Pacioretty, and maybe Palushai  

    let the kids  play!!!!!!!!!

    40 + games – or more – but let them play – through good times and bad

    develop your 500,000 players and then you have the money to spend elsewhere.


  18. mike g says:

    Adding to Higgins and AK, immagine if Ryder would have panned out for us…


    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

  19. TomNickle says:

    Nashville has depth on Defense unmatched by any team in the NHL in my opinion, maybe Detroit.

    Two very different teams, Nashville and Philadelphia.

    Goaltending in this series is such that the series itself can turn in an instant but I can’t see the Flyers taking 4 of 6 from Chicago and winning this series.

    Chicago’s depth is too much for Philadelphia to handle over that length of time.

  20. TomNickle says:

    Could he have predicted that Chris Higgins and Andrei Kostitsyn were going to be idiots?  Those players were very physical and added a scoring threat but can’t get their heads out of their own rear ends.  If those two pan out, we’re looking at a pretty damn good roster right now, don’t you think?

    It isn’t as if both Phili and Chicago have a boatload of physical and skilled players.

    Bolland, Toews and Sharp know how to throw their weight around.

    Briere and Giroux do too.  So I know what you’re saying and I agree with it.  But it isn’t as if Gainey didn’t try to incorporate forwards like that into our lineup.  They didn’t work out, so he is to blame for that, but at the end of the day, he understood that it was a need and tried to address it.  It isn’t as if he ignored it or didn’t understand it.


  21. mrhabby says:

    hmmm, let me think about that and will get back to you.

  22. ManApart says:

    I’m talking about a mix of guys that compliment eachother to make a team. Gainey always had a one -dimensional group. He was a bad evaluater of bottom 6 guys as well as top 6 guys who were more all around players, (he did a little better last year). Not enough and too late. Koivu was the right stuff. Kovalev could be forgiven. The rest… Chicago and Philly’s “small skilled guys” are also very gritty and not one-dimensional at all. I’m surprised about Briere though. i know getting the right guys are easier said than done, but Gainey had more than a few years to do it and pretty much was completely unsuccessful. Last season he realised everything he had done for 5 years was a failure and changed half the team. A desperation move with some real Cap repercussions, but at least he was starting to understand the right direction. There is still a lot of work to do to get it right. I think as time goes on, we will see how mediocre of a GM Gainey really was. As the team gets better, we will remember the Gainey days and wince at how awful they were. One day you will all realise how good it was that Gainey stepped down or was forced to step down. Looking at these teams, especially Philly who never really went through a tanking phase, shows us how it could have been done.

  23. craz11 says:

    Someone keep an eye on Denis Morel and keep him away from the Champlain Bridge!

  24. mike g says:

    I think Leblanc is realizing that his brain is develloping at Harvard, but not his hockey…

    Alot of poeple criticize Harvard, and alot of other prep schools, saying their hockey programs leave alot to desire….

    Maybe it’s true, and people are telling him to focus more on hockey..

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

  25. TomNickle says:

    Like, Benoit Pouliot and Andrei Kostitsyn for example?

    Management did what they could to insulate those top 2 lines with big physical forwards.  Andrei Kostitsyn is a bum who doesn’t understand the word consistency and Pouliot isn’t conditioned to handle 20 minutes/night yet.


  26. TomNickle says:

    Actually, I really appreciate his game.  The biggest play of the game last night in my opinion was in the middle of a bad change by Chicago.  They were about to turn the puck over at their own blueline and Byfuglien broke the play up and the puck ended up trapped in the neutral zone.

    He does all of the little things right.  He has just enough skill to be on that line and the right amount of brutal physicality to protect Toews and Kane.

  27. habs4later says:

    it’s ok to have a couple of small players, as long as they’re insulated by bigger players. 1 smurf on each top line is ok. our problem, they’re all smurfs!

    we need 2 big players, 1 on each top line.

  28. SLONCOLD says:

    Byfuglien…. isn’t this guy a defensemen? i think he’s overated. not sure he’s all that good of shooter or skater. i know he’s having a good playoffs. but other than being big i’m not a fan of his his.

    his success comes from teams worrying about his two linemates.

  29. TomNickle says:

    Yes, two one goal games where Philadelphia, on the road, got the key matchup in their favour and couldn’t take advantage of it.

    They’ll continue to get that matchup at home.  Do you really think that they’re going to keep Toews, Kane and Byfuglien off the score sheet over the next two games?

    Do you really think that Sharp, Hossa and Versteeg are going to struggle against Timonen and Coburn?

    Do you think that Bolland’s line will struggle against Kraijcek and Bartulis?

    Phili is very fortunate that the Toews line hasn’t produced yet.  That trend isn’t likely to continue.


  30. TomNickle says:

    Wanting big skilled players is one thing, and getting them is another.

    Byfuglien is a tremendous player that I’m sure everyone here would love to have.  

    But it’s just as much their small skilled guys that got them there James.  Where would Chicago be right now without Bolland, Kane, Toews, Versteeg and Sharp?

    Where would Phili be without Briere and Giroux?

    I’m not saying we don’t need size because we certainly do.  But when he realized that the team we had in place prior to last summer’s overhaul wasn’t working, he put a core group of skilled players in place.  Gauthier’s job now is to add big skilled players to that group and build for the future.

  31. avatar_58 says:

    I said Hawks in 4 and I’m sticking to it. Go home Philly

  32. jimmy shaker says:

    I’ve got everyone on this lineup with a total cap of 55 mill with about 2 or 3 mill to spare.

    correct me if I’m wrong

    patch – 1mill, gomer – 8mill, gio – 5mill

    kovalchuck – 8mill, pleks – 4.5 mill, cammy – 6mill

    pouliot – 800 thou, moore – 1.25 mill, laps – 1 mill

    moen – 1.5mill, pyatt – 800 thou white – 500 thou

    Markov – 5.5 mill, subban 1mill, gill – 2mill, gorges – 1mill dandy and MAB about 800 thou each.

    Jaro 3mill and sanford or desjardins 750 thou

    Obyrne – 900 thou

    It could work!  I know it won’t but I would like this lineup going forward!


  33. TomNickle says:

    I think our blueline is great.  Getting rid of Hamrlik is the only adjustment needed.

    We need what we need.  Two physical scoring wingers who can replace Andrei Kostitsyn and a stop gap player until Pouliot is ready to be a top 6 forward, if ever.

    Very interesting that Louis Leblanc is considering signing an entry level deal.  I’m shocked that he’s not sold on finishing school.


  34. SLONCOLD says:

    i agree,I say they call every penalty the way it should be called.

    as for overtime… 20 minutes 4-4 and then shoot out. i doubt games will go that long into a 4on4 game. luckily this year there haven’t been any marathon games.

  35. J.J. of Turku says:

    Hah haa! ๐Ÿ™‚
    I recieved an e-mail add from about that. I guess I wait for the next season…

  36. ManApart says:

    Very good post. I agree 100%. These are the type of teams that I always invisioned as the model Stanley Cup model, with better goaltending (although Niemi was pretty damn good last night). Skilled, tough and aggressive. This is why I have always been on Gainey’s back, because I felt he never understood or headed in the right direction for a real contender. He just didn’t understand what a Stanley Cup team should look like, which makes no sense at all. The proof is in the pudding. From BG drafting to the kind of guys he would trade for or sign, he always just went for pure skill and speed. He actually insinuated Burke’s idea of the right make-up for a team was wrong. Burke may go too far in the truculence department, ignoring some other factors, just as Gainey went too far in the opposite direction. I think we are all seeing by these two teams what a pretty good model is. Gainey did a little better this season, bringing in some more character and skill, but overall he really didn’t understand how to build a complete team. I had no hope with a clueless Gainey at the helm and am very glad he is no longer in charge. Let’s hope PG is watching these finals and is paying attention.

  37. mike g says:

    I’d be willing to take a chance with him….

    Let’s be honest, Vancouvers defenseman are a giant puzzle. Bieksa hasn’t develloped into the player he should have been. Shane looks the same, like he has to find a system and coach who understand him.

    Maybe JM could help him like he did with Georges this year. We all knew that Josh was gonna be a solid player, but this year something braught his game to another level…

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

  38. TomNickle says:

    Flyers may win a home game here Mike but Chicago is just too deep for them.  Laviolette’s gotta be pissed today that he got the matchup he wanted in Chicago for two games having Pronger up against Toews but still couldn’t win.  That’s a sign of things to come.

  39. TomNickle says:

    Either of those lovely ladies could’ve been +15 being on the ice with a combination of the Sedins or Kesler & Bernier.


  40. TomNickle says:

    Either of those lovely ladies could’ve been +15 being on the ice with a combination of the Sedins or Kesler & Bernier.


  41. mike g says:

    Honestly, if we look at it from both sides it’s not black and white…

    If I was the refs last night, I’d be so confused. Ur damned if you call penalities, and you’re damned if you don’t. If they would have called everything last night like they do in the regular season, the game would have been played 3 vs 3 for the 1st 20 minutes, until both teams adjust. And even then, would it feel like a “CUp Final” game? I don’t know, maybe it would feel like a Sunday afternoon tilt on NBC. But, if they don’t call naything like last night, they look like they’re wasting their time even being on the ice.

    Personally, it may not be the best brand of “Stanley Cup Finals” hockey, but I vote for calling everyting. The regular season is played like that. Teams went through 82 games of that sort of officiating. If that’s how you sell your product for 7 months, do it for the 8th month too…But it’s complicated, because there are shootouts in the regular season and not in the playoffs. It’s such a hard thing to debate, lol…

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

  42. Storm Man says:

    Must be something wrong with your tv if you think OB is better then O’Brien. Season stats OB played 55 games and was a -3 not so bad. O’Brien 65 games played and a +15 and is tougher then OB. I would like to know how in your eyes OB is better?

  43. puck face says:

    Turku are you reading?

  44. TomNickle says:

    O’Brien is tough.  That’s it.  Not good in his own end, can’t move the puck, can’t handle anybody with speed.

  45. Ayan_SB says:

    So finally has Subban t-shirts? Nice, thanks for letting me know.

  46. RetroMikey says:

    And Doug leaves to work for the best sports organization in the world, everyone’s dream is to work for the Hab.

    “We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “

  47. mike g says:

    The 2 teams just match up so well against eachother..

    Don’t expect it to be a 4 game series. I can see Philly winning tomorrow. It’s game 4 that worries me, and that’s the one that will decide the series. Like we saw in our series with Philly, game 3 meant nothing. We went down 3-1 instead of tying the series at 2. That was it for us, and Philly has to win both at home or the Cup will be won in game 5..


    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

  48. RetroMikey says:

    Brazil or Spain, darkhorses are one of the African Nations like Ivory Coast or a surprised European Nation in Serbia which are labelled “the Brazillians of Europe” by the legendary Pele.

    Australia could surprise or even the USA, yes the USA have a very good team.


    “We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “

  49. mike g says:

    Shane is a very solid hockey player…

    He can skate much better than MAB, and plays with much more of an edge than any of our current defenseman. At the right price, he’s worth it. He’s a warrior, and not needed for offense. You’ve got Subban, Markov, and to some extent Hammer and Spach for that.

    So signing him would be great. Add some toughness, and I’d like to see him play with Subs or Marky…

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

  50. andrewberkshire says:

    Except he’s always out of position, and he’s absolutely terrible defensively. He’s tough, and that’s it. That’s how I’m comparing him to MAB. He’s entirely one-dimensional. Him getting massive minutes with the Canucks this post season just shows how terrible their defense was. Ryan O’Byrne is a better defenseman than Shane O’Brien. Better skater, better instincts. Shane O’Brien is at best a 7th defensemen on most NHL teams.

  51. TomNickle says:

    And because O’Brien’s from Port Hope.

    Guys that grew up on the 401 look out for each other.

  52. SLONCOLD says:

    Carcillo = sh!t stain

  53. TomNickle says:

    The Kostitsyns would be curled up in the fetal position along the boards praying nobody saw them.

    Chicago is more physical than Phili in my opinion.

    Carcillo decking Carter last night was the best blooper of the playoffs by far.  Better than the goal on Niemi against the Preds.

  54. Storm Man says:

    I dont think you have watched O’Brien much to say he plays like MAB without a shot, He is a good stay at home guy with toughness something this team is lacking.

  55. Storm Man says:

    Argentina is a good pick but have to beat Spain or Portugal in the semis.

  56. andrewberkshire says:

    Shane O’Brien is MAB without a shot. The only reason anyone knows who he is, is because Don Cherry has a boner over him because he’s Irish. The guy is a crappy hockey player.

  57. SLONCOLD says:

    the refs are a joke, they call little hooks from behind but cross checks, slashes hits from behind nothing. We’re also talking about vicious slashes and cross checks not the little hacks or pushes. lots of late hits as well, like i know u have to finish your check but once the play has started to go the other way, it might be time to worry about the although they did call chicago for interference.

    how chris pronger has not had a penalty yet is beyond me lol.

  58. Jbird says:

    I’m Uruguay and Ghana all the way!  but serious I say Argentina.   Hows about those Koreans’?? ๐Ÿ˜‰

  59. mike g says:

    Next year will be the biggest test for Brass…

    Here’s a guy who’s used to dominating at every single level. Since he made the Jackets, he’s been bitten by injuries and mostly inconsistent with the scoring sheet. At the age he is, this will either be his breakout year or another step back. Hopefully he can stay healthy and play with Nash. He’s a nice sleeper pick if that happens, because he can be a 70 point centerman with Rick.

    I saw lots of him in juniors and a buddy of mine played with him in Drummond. Great kid, awsome talent. I really hope he can put it all together…If not, the Jackets are in serious trouble..

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

  60. Storm Man says:

    5 teams have a real good shot. My heart wants England to win but I dont see how they can bet Brazil if England gets to the semi finals.

  61. mike g says:

    Colby Armstrong would be my guy…

    And on defense, Shane O’Brien

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

  62. Storm Man says:

    He was raised in Williams Lake and his family still lives there.

  63. mike g says:

    I know it’s hard for some of us to do because of certain obligations, but whoever isn’t following the Cup Finals seriously enough should start right now…

    For the first time in about 10 years, this is turning out to be a real bruising battle. Two very, extreamly physical AND talented teams are going at it. This something we haven’t seen in a while. The Pens and Wings didn’t offer this, their series’ were more creative and offensively/defensively strategic. This year however, you have 2 teams who will hurt you badly in order to hoist the Cup. Watching last nights game, I couldn’t help but immagine the Habs playing vs the Hawks. It hurts to say this, but it wouldn’t have been fun for us Habs fans. The amount of slashing, cross-checks, high sticks, etc…going on is rediculous; and all of them are not being called. I was watching and saying to myself, “Man, we would have gotten such a physical beating, it’s not even normal”.

    I know most of you guys understandably don’t appreciate the Flyers, or their style of play. I however happen to like the Flyers, they’ve been my “2nd favorite” team since Mike Richards became a member of their squad. I appreciate how they play, it’s a rough and tough style that can only be beaten if you are willing to either suck it up and pay the price, or if you give it right back to them. The Habs, sadly, would not be able to compete like that as we saw in the Flyers series. And, the Hawks are doing a scary good job of handling themselves against the Flyers, while also giving Philly a taste of the Hawks’ toughness and gritt…

    All this to say, while we all wished and wanted our Habs to be on the ice now, it may not be a bad thing that they aren’t. Would we have been able to play 2 road games like Philly did and keep pace with the Hawks? I really don’t think so. What about matching their physicallity? Probably not. So to everyone who hasn’t been following, tune into the Finals because it’s a great one. Try and understand and immagine the bumps, bruises, and broken bones these guys are suffering just to gain an inch on that ice. It really is something to watch, and these 2 teams seem like a perfect fit fot the tilt…

    “These head movies make my eyes rain” -Simple Jack

  64. LeNordique says:

    If the Flyers do it then I hate it- even if it might be a good idea.

  65. Ali says:

    I really hope these guys are going to be replaced with better scouts. Pierre McGuire (as annoying as he may be to some) is right about one thing, there is no salary cap on scouting and pro staff. You have to have the best guys out there looking for players. video scouting is great at the pro level, but to draft well you need to have scouts. if the habs are skimping on this, i’m very worried for the future.

  66. TomNickle says:

    Actually.  I really like their group of youth.  Russell, Filatov, Voracek, Brassard, Boll, Nash.

    They just need some help on D.  Maybe they’d be a candidate for Roman Hamrlik.  Hmmm………

  67. adamkennelly says:

    anyone else notice that each of the two teams in the finals have 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 players bigger, meaner and tougher than Habs toughest (Moen) player?

    absolutely zero doubt that this team needs to improve in that department – don’t mean enforcer but if we have to go with smallish top 6 then we have to make sure we get a lot uglier on the bottom 6 and at least 1 D man who opponents fear.


    on my wish list

    Rypien, Prust, Clarkson, Rupp, Carkner….


    who they’ll prolly end up with

    Ryan White sometimes and “team toughness”

  68. GrimJim says:

    Then you shot your arrow and missed the mark. Sarcasm only works when it’s so over the top that the reader has no other choice but to recognize it as such (like Pope’s “A Modest Proposal”). Sorry Tony. Try going farther out on the limb next time.

    BTW, there’s six comments knocking you for your poor attendance comment and one for the poor product sales slag

  69. SeriousFan09 says:

    Perhaps negotiations cooled when he suggested that if Rick Nash wasn’t in the lineup the Jackets/Bulldogs would be about an even fight?


    – I shall always remember Captain Koivu.

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