Saturday video theatre

Chill
OK, maybe we all should all whip us some margaritas in the blender and chill out on a stinkin’ hot Saturday in mid-July.
The owners’ offer is just the opening salvo in the NHL’s contract negotiations.
It provides a basis point for the serious horse trading.
The PA will tell the league where to stick it, of course, and then we’ll have some serious back-and-forth.
So maybe there will be hockey before Christmas.
Maybe.

• Here’s a profile of  Donald Fehr, the tough negotiator who leads the NHLPA into this battle.

• Adrian Dater of Sports Illustrated says the owners are hypocrites.

• George Carlin connects the dots.

Happy birthday, Woody Guthrie

And here’s a video that indicates which way the Trotskyite wing of HIO is leaning:

And to end on an upbeat note, a story about good guy Brandon Prust and another one

509 Comments

  1. frontenac1 says:

    Maiming Star Players?How about removing the”Instigator”rule? Thoughts?

    • jmsheehy19 says:

      How about the league actually protects its investment and hands out severly harsh punishment for anything deemed intentional (such as suspensions STARTING at 10 to 20 games as well as fines to both the player and the team) and slightly less harsh reprecussions for incidents viewed as accidental (3 to 10 games), as even without intent actions should have consequences.

      But since that will never happen, yep remove the instigator rule.

    • Cal says:

      How about players not worrying about a penalty when it comes to their teammates’ health. Whatever happened to players defending themselves?

    • wjc says:

      How about removing the instigator rule and maiming star players. Works for me.

      wjc

  2. WarHero says:

    Hahaha, thx for the info fellas, I forgot he was traded, lol

  3. habsfansince91 says:

    Something weird just happened. I logged into the site as normal, only to see that I was logged in as Mike Boone! What just happened?

    I took a screenshot of it. Is there a way for me to post it here? Not sure how to do it.

  4. wjc says:

    The benefits of a strike/lockout:

    You rid yourselves of Scott Gomez, relief from worries of his contract, no more worries that you might be wrong and he does indeed have a comeback year.

    You save money, tickets, pay-per-view.

    You may grow and find new distractions, interact with outside people more.

    The hockey summit can meet and discuss past glories at the hall of fame and maybe head over to a strip club with the money saved from un-needed hockey tickets.

    wjc

  5. wjc says:

    One more thought no agonizing losses and playoff disappointments. Go back an relive the 70’s again if you wish or the 60’s or the 50’s. When there were no drafts, salary caps, and you could stock pile thousands of players.

  6. punkster says:

    It’s so freakin’ hot!!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE2fnYpwrng

    ***Subbang Baby!!!***

  7. FishOutOfWater says:

    I dont know if anyone’s ever seen this but i’ll just leave this here

    http://youtu.be/qs7f3ssuEjA

    19 Ninety fourr tootsie Rooooawwwll

    • Hobie Hansen says:

      Everyone has seen this by now I’d imagine. Still pretty hilarious stuff from the streets on Montreal.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmG4X9PGOXs

      • accp says:

        who cares. they’re dealing with millionaires. if they have hockey they have hockey if they don’t there’s other things in life. I hope hockey is not the only thing in your life if so you must have a boring life.

        I played hockey for 30+years that’s the reason I watch it. different kind of hockey today. I call it kill or be killed no respect for one another. when you try to Mame a player like Crosby. the best in hockey today. my interest is not what it use to be.

  8. JohnBellyful says:

    Has anyone taken the time to read the Preamble in the National Hockey League’s Collective Bargaining Agreement? It’s as dull as dishwater and lacking in soul.
    And that’s the problem. Hockey at its finest is more than a collection of articles, exhibits, rules, and definitions, it’s artistry on ice, but there’s no hint of its greatness in the statement of intent agreed to by team owners and players. The language is dry and does not inspire.
    The Preamble to the United States Constitution, on the other hand:
    “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
    Imagine if the stewards of hockey were to look beyond themselves to “the People” who sustain the sport – the ones who buy the tickets, who follow the games, who purchase the souvenirs – and take into account their interests in promoting the game’s “general Welfare.”
    What could be “more perfect” than an agreement that, in addition to resolving all issues extant between owners and players, also recognizes and responds to the desires of fans whose support undergirds the billion-dollar enterprise.
    All it would take is to include in the Preamble an appeal to owners and players to be mindful of the impact their collective actions are likely to have on the one person responsible for all their success, the typical fan.
    Here is the CBA’s Preamble as amended, minus some of the verbiage:
    “This Collective Bargaining Agreement, together with all Exhibits hereto, which is the product of bona fide, arm’s length collective bargaining, is entered into by and between the National Hockey League, a joint venture organized as a not-for-profit unincorporated association, which is recognized as the sole and exclusive bargaining representative of the present and future Clubs of the NHL, and the National Hockey League Players’ Association, which is recognized as the sole and exclusive bargaining representative of present and future Players in the NHL.
    The NHL and the NHLPA hereafter shall be referred to collectively as ‘the parties’.
    This CBA supersedes and replaces all prior collective bargaining agreements between the parties, and at all times shall have regard to “What would Little Jimmy want?” with the answer honestly arrived at by both parties to be acted upon accordingly.”

    • punkster says:

      Outstanding JB.

      SUPPORTERS OF LITTLE JIMMY UNITE! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR CHAINS!!!

      This could be the beginning of a movement so powerful, so all encompassing, so emotionally and physically satisfying as to unite the entire…

      …no wait…that may have been the 3rd coffee I just finished this morning…gotta run…

      ***Subbang Baby!!!***

    • habstrinifan says:

      Little Jimmy? I represent the Grim Reaper HellCats and we have been trying to get little Jimmy’s name on a contract for over two months now. What’s the hold-up Little Jimmy? Thought you were cremated (oops typo..committed) months ago.

      • JohnBellyful says:

        To correct an unfortunate misapprehension: Little Jimmy was anesthetized, not euthanized. His multiple surgeries — all 14 of them — have been a success, including the most recent, which involved untying a twisted tied tongue.

    • Bripro says:

      All mandatory union dues are to be made payable to the “Bripro collection agency for the under-privileged”.
      Please contact Ian Cobb for our mailing address.
      As an exception to tne Canadian Postal Service’s policy, all payments are to made in cash only. No cheques please.

  9. HabFab says:

    Cap Space Update;

    – $7,472,024 left
    – PK left to sign, completes 23 man roster
    – for the Cap Geeks, I dropped the 2 two-way contracts leaving 22 signed.

  10. HabFab says:

    Pessimist had a big night last night and are now at 26%.

    • HardHabits says:

      You misspelled realist.

      • habstrinifan says:

        Good one!

      • Clay says:

        http://threadoftruth.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/optimism-pessimism-realism.jpg

        __________________________
        ☞ The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. ~ Richard Feynman ☜

        • punkster says:

          “‘One can’t believe in impossible things.’
          ‘I daresay you haven’t had much practice,’ said the Queen.
          ‘When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day.
          Why sometimes I’ve believed in as many as six impossible
          things before breakfast.'”
          Lewis Carroll, ‘Through the Looking Glass’

          There’s a whole psychology thing out there about basing realistic views of the future simply on past events. Something to do with depression etc…not sure of the details. Apparently the realist may be depressive, a pessimist, and would see the glass as half empty. The optimist may be happier, possibly even delusional at times, and tends to see the glass as half full.

          Either way the damn glass contains half its capacity. Open another bottle FFS!

          ***Subbang Baby!!!***

      • HabFab says:

        Logged in, HAD THE POWER!!
        Tried to ban you…didn’t work. The story of my life “sigh”

        PS The truth is, I give us about a 26% chance of making the play-offs but what do I know!

        • HardHabits says:

          You should know by now that logging in as somebody else does not give you the power and only entitles you to a one off at having said user’s sig appear at the bottom of your post, which will come out under your username. Thankfully.

          • HabFab says:

            :D

            You don’t think I would actually try to blacklist you…do you??
            Heck, I can remember when you joined. Gave me attitude then too :P

  11. HabFab says:

    Some opinions from different writers on Bergevins first FA season.

    BWildeCTV – Bergevin is having an excellent first UFA season. Like that he’s not getting sucked into long and fat contracts for old people.

    http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=2863&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    • habstrinifan says:

      Mitchell Tierney: Montreal improved their team over the free agent period but they didn’t fill either of the real holes on the roster.

      I think this is the truest analysis. Not saying that Bergevin has been bad but that it still leave sthe organization with two gaping needs which must come from homegrown or add-ons in the future.

    • 24 Cups says:

      There seems to be three reoccuring themes throughout all of the opinions that were stated. Bergevin has done a decent job shoring up Montreal’s depth and toughness but he should have signed a top left wing, notably Shane Doan.

      That leads me to two questions. Which top six left winger should Bergevin have signed (or traded for keeping in mind the assets that would be going the other way)? Does anyone on this website truly think that Shane Doan is going to sign with Montreal? And even if he did, how sensible would it be for Bergevin to give a 36 year old a four year deal that would be north of 5M a season? Doan’s gas tank could be empty by the time the Habs are truly ready to challenge for a Cup.

      The team is rebuilding – steady as she goes.

      BTW, I thought Bettman made an intelligent first offer to the NHLPA. There was no mention of escrow or non monetary issues (drug testing/Olympics/player safety on the ice/etc) but there was lots of room for compromise.

      I think the main issue for the owners is to put in some regulations that plug the loopholes that allowed their GMs to spend like drunken sailors. In essence, Bettman isn’t bargaining with the players but rather the GMs around the league.

      Right now, having a loopholeologist is just as important as having a capologist.

      • HardHabits says:

        Putting an end to front and back loading contracts would be a start. I have suggested numerous times that a cap hit of 5 million should be 5 million for each of the years on the contract. Another thing I have called for is a maximum term on contracts which is also being proposed. As it stands, teams are circumventing the rules and the players are equally guilty of participating in the circumvention.

        • 24 Cups says:

          That’s a huge issue but so is the self-inflicted wound of having players coming out of three year entry level deals (or RFA) and getting paid huge coin. I believe the first player was Bergeron which was quickly followed by the Vanek fiasco. Montreal has indirectly done the same thing with Price and probably will do so with Subban.

          These are two issues that can be traded off for escrow and a +50% cut of the pie.

          • HabFab says:

            Solved all those issues yesterday in my response to Commandant…just waiting for the NHL and NHLPA to approve and we are good to go.

      • JUST ME says:

        At this point it would have been and still is of no purpose to sign a big name and think that we are or will be legitimate contenders. For once we can say that it would be a reasonable goal to make the playoffs event though this is not what we ultimately want.

        We are back to the ole drawing board wich means that we start from scratch. The on ice product right now is to be re evaluated as a whole. I do not think that with that in mind there are untouchables. This remains to be proven.

        Not saying that if we are in the picture comes all-star break that we should not make any moves,we must keep hope alive, but we are building for the future wich means we will need adjustements here and there on and off the ice .

        That`s why the one year deals are perfect and meanwhile the problem deals with the usual suspects will become less and less of a burden while in the minors promising talents will have time to grow.

  12. WarHero says:

    Ok … Is it just me … Or does anyone else find if strange that Gainey goes to Dallas and Ribiero bolts?

    • HabFab says:

      Ribeiro was on the outs in Dallas, long before Gainey arrived.

    • Gumper Knows Best says:

      Ribeiro didn’t bolt. He was traded. Maybe it’s because some things never change

      Published: 12 October 2010
      Dallas Stars center Mike Ribeiro was arrested late Sunday on a public intoxication charge after an incident at a Plano restaurant, police said.

      Police said Ribeiro was with his wife, Tammy Williams, and another married couple at Ra Sushi Bar Restaurant about 11:25 p.m. “An altercation took place inside there involving several patrons,” said Officer Rick McDonald, a Plano police spokesman.

  13. Ian Cobb says:

    Our 6th annual 2012 HIO Fan Summit is, Oct 27th weekend.
    All game tickets are available from me until July 18th, last day!
    ITINERARY & LOCATIONS
    All events are walking distance.
    We are staying at the Novotel hotel, discount rates at 866-861-6112 Tell them you are with HIO to get your discount.
    We will all meet and greet at Hurley’s pub Friday eve. on Crescent St.
    Some of us will be having supper there, and name tags will be given out.
    Everyone is welcome to join us. Ware you team colors! and enjoy the evening.
    Saturday morning, breakfast is at Chez Cora’s at 8 or 8:30am. 1240 Drummond St.
    You can order a la cart and everyone gets 15% discount off your bill.
    After breakfast we walk over to the Bell Center for the Hall of Fame Tour.
    At 3pm the Montreal Canadiens Children’s Foundation charity raffle at the Baton Rouge restaurant 1050 Mountain St.
    Each person is asked to bring one gift item to donate for the charity raffle, so everyone gets a gift to go home with. After this years fund raiser, we will have donated over $10,000.
    Then our Baton Rouge restaurant pre game dinner. With special guests.
    After that we walk across the street to the Duck’s and Hab’s game.
    After the game the 2nd floor of Hurley’s pub is reserved for us again, to celebrate the win. Anyone may join us, just identify yourself as a HIO member.
    Please be generous with your charity raffle gifts and your purchase of raffle tickets. It is a way for the HIO community to give back to less fortunate kids.
    Enjoy talking hockey and meeting your wonderful HIO community at this years Summit.
    See ya there.
    Ian Cobb
    HIO Fan Summit Organizer (613-968-9807) if you need anything.

    For Summit tickets, News, Pictures and comments
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Montreal-Canadiens-We-Are-Fans-Summit/197390760316125

    • Mattyleg says:

      Heya Ian!
      Did you get my envelope?
      I mailed it two weeks ago… hope it got to you!

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • Ian Cobb says:

        Matty!
        I did not receive anything from you as yet! What name did you send it to me as. Yours right! No I did not receive anything from Mat Legault.! How many and which seats do you want my friend, I have to pay for all tickets on Thursday morning.
        Call me right away please. 613-968-9807

        If anyone has a e-mail for Matty tell him to call me please.

  14. Habilis says:

    Some of the finer points of the NHL owner’s proposal were just released:

    – In order to save money, teams will no longer fly but will travel in identical league-issued buses. But they’ll be the nice ones, with a bathroom you know?

    – The term “Hockey Related Revenue” (hereto referred to as HRR) will now be redefined to include any revenue acquired by the clubs through any pledge or drive on any social media platform. However HRR will now exclude merchandise sales, concessions, tv revenue and ticket sales. Oh and parking.

    – Every NHL player who has played for 2 contract seasons or a total of 164 games will have to place their first male child into escrow until the child’s draft year. If the child goes undrafted then all rights return to said player in addition to a bill for 18 years of food, lodging and wi-fi.

  15. Un Canadien errant says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbzxemJZIc

    THERE IS POWER IN A UNION
    by Billy Bragg

    There is power in a factory, power in the land
    Power in the hands of a worker
    But it all amounts to nothing if together we don’t stand
    There is power in a Union

    Now the lessons of the past were all learned with workers’ blood
    The mistakes of the bosses we must pay for
    From the cities and the farmlands to trenches full of mud
    War has always been the bosses’ way, sir

    The Union forever defending our rights
    Down with the blackleg, all workers unite
    With our brothers and our sisters from many far off lands
    There is power in a Union

    Now I long for the morning that they realise
    Brutality and unjust laws can not defeat us
    But who’ll defend the workers who cannot organise
    When the bosses send their lackies out to cheat us?

    Money speaks for money, the Devil for his own
    Who comes to speak for the skin and the bone?
    What a comfort to the widow, a light to the child
    There is power in a Union

    The Union forever defending our rights
    Down with the blackleg, all workers unite
    With our brothers and our sisters together we will stand
    There is power in a Union.

  16. Un Canadien errant says:

    And then there’s Seattle shill Chris Hansen, who wants to bring the NBA back to town, and you know, what the hell, an NHL team to help out with free dates in the calendar. He’s trying to pass off his repaying the debt he would owe the City as a return on investment.

    http://www.fieldofschemes.com/news/archives/2012/07/5012_hansen_breaking.html

  17. Un Canadien errant says:

    From: http://www.fieldofschemes.com/news/archives/2012/07/5010_wild_without_ne.html

    “Apparently still peeved at being left out of the Vikings stadium subsidy deal, Minnesota Wild owner Craig Leipold interrupted his announcement of the signings of Zach Parise and Ryan Suter on Monday to call on St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman to build his team a new $50 million practice rink.

    “…Catch what just happened there? A sports team owner, in the middle of announcing that he’s spending $196 million on two top free agents, called on the city to pay for his new practice facility because it’s hurting his ability to sign free agents.”

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      ” The Wild’s majority owner also declined to comment on business partner Phillip Falcone, who is being investigated by the Securities and Exchange Commission for charges that he lent himself $113 million from hedge funds he manages to pay his taxes. Leipold would say only that he has been in touch with Falcone, who is excited about the additions of Parise and Suter, but considering Falcone owns more than a third of the Wild, Leipold has to be concerned.”

      • Gumper Knows Best says:

        And your point is what? That allegations are automatically guilt? Yea the Obama SEC chases a man that donates to the Republicans but let’s scum like Obama friend and super pac gatherer John Corzine of MT Global to walk free because he doesn’t know how $1.2 billion dollars just disappeared

        • HardHabits says:

          Every ultra-wealthy American political contributor is scum, whether Republican or Democrat. Possibly the only presidential candidate with any integrity is Ron Paul.

          Hoarding wealth and possessions –
          These are the ways of theft

          source – Tao Te Ching verse 53

  18. Un Canadien errant says:

    From: http://www.fieldofschemes.com/news/archives/2012/07/5011_nassau_official.html

    “…Islanders owner Charles Wang’s last proposal was that the county put up all the money and he’d pay it back from arena proceeds…”

    • wjc says:

      The key word here is “proposal”. As long as Charley agrees to pay the county back.

      Sometimes it is “good business” to operate at a (so called) loss. Your other business interest can benefit.

      That is why they spend so much on accountants and lawyers, to guide them through the tricky numbers game.

      Wang looks like he knows what he is doing.

      wjc

  19. frontenac1 says:

    Wjc.just catching up on posts which are out of sequence sometimes on my BB. Re/ minor hockey attendance during NHL strike. I agree the Midgets aren’t the Habs for sure,but out in the Rural areas on Saturday night ,there was nothing else to do except go to the local arena and watch the kids play and get your hockey fix.It was a lot of fun. I would assume in the urban areas there would be plenty of other distractions other than minor hockey.

    • wjc says:

      It is nice to go back to basics of minor hockey. The fun of playing for the love of the game. The involvement only a coach gets being part of the action. So there is an upside to the unlikely strike/lockout.

      You get a different kind of fix and in many ways a healthier one.

      wjc

  20. Boomer says:

    Knock knock
    who’s there?
    the guy who finished in second place…
    Cool video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTLgHEtG6JM&feature=related

    Occupation: Professional Hedonist… aiming low and exceeding expectations ;)

  21. frontenac1 says:

    Commandant. Yeah,that was bush league alright.

  22. commandant says:

    Speaking of Saturday Video theatre, this is comedy gold

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dca_pS9bQE0

    Go Habs Go!
    NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
    Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  23. Kimberly2u says:

    Ian, one day I’ll go but can’t this year. Im not far from you as I’m in Cobourg but I’ll be thinking of you guys.

  24. Ian Cobb says:

    2012 HIO Summit News!

    Last day for Summit game tickets is July 18th. I must receive your money order by that day. I have to pay for all the tickets to the hockey club on the 19th. More people coming than any other year.!
    Furthest people from Tacoma Wash.

    For Summit tickets, News, Pictures and comments
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Montreal-Canadiens-We-Are-Fans-Summit/197390760316125

    Thanks
    Ian

  25. frontenac1 says:

    Hey Commandant. I think Gumper jumped on the ice looking for a tilt and when no one danced,he went back to sit at the end of the bench again! Too funny!

    • commandant says:

      I disliked the dishonesty.

      He conveniently took only half my quote and then took out the half where I said that things were probably unrealistic, and I was just making crazy musings.

      And then criticized me for making an unrealistic comment.

      Thats just a toolbox thing to do.

      Go Habs Go!
      NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
      Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

  26. HabFab says:

    @aaronward_nhl: After NHL’s first proposal to NHLPA,I’m guessing ’05 theme of ‘partnership’ and ‘grow game together’ expired with the deal. #helloAHLonTV

  27. HabFab says:

    L_A_theRiver: Igor Larionov tells me #Habs could soon announce a deal with 1st round pick at last #NHLDraft Alex Galchenyuk.

    L_A_theRiver: Larionov on Galchenyuk: “My strong thought is he will play in NHL next season” #Habs

  28. commandant says:

    @EdLopez

    The NHLPA has never ostracized players on 2 way contracts, especially prospects like Leblanc, for playing in the NHL. Not during the 1994-1995 work stoppage, nor the 2004-05 one.

    They understand that these guys need to play in the AHL to develop.

    Go Habs Go!
    NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
    Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • ed lopaz says:

      that wasn’t the question I answered.

      The question referred to RDS covering the Bulldogs.

      I feel like that would add insult to injury and make some of the 2 way contract players feel very uncomfortable.

      at least that’s how I would feel.

      • HabFab says:

        He did finish the year at Hamilton plus is listed on the Habs Website as a prospect. Don’t see any problem, he is not an NHLer yet.

      • commandant says:

        I don’t know…. CBC covered the AHL two years ago, and the Score had them before that. I don’t think its unprecedented to have RDS cover some games.

        I’m not expecting all the games either though.

        Go Habs Go!
        NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
        Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

  29. frontenac1 says:

    Absolutely WJC. That’s why its so complicated trying to analyze how Tax incentives impact not only the Demand/Supply equation but also the net community benefit. Those incentives could be good value overall or a waste of money. Nobody really knows to my knowledge. The only thing I know for certain is I have destroyed too many of my own brain cells over the last 35yrs from various forms of substance abuse.. In trying to remember Elasticity of Demand functions from my Finance Theory Courses ,I have just injured myself.

  30. Bigdawg says:

    if I were the NHLPA, I would just come out and say it: “We both know that first offer is garbage, try again with a more serious offer then we’ll talk”

  31. Roger Ramjet says:

    The signing of Parise and Suter from a team that was crying “salaries are sky-high, and not affordable” has basically sealed the deal for the Players Association.

    Bettman …… you weasel. Given what has transpired in terms of salaries being thrown out by “poor teams”, I wish you the best of luck.

    I am hopeful that hockey can be played prior to Dec.2012.

    Wishful thinking.

    “Fairy tales can come true, it can happen to you …..”

  32. habstrinifan says:

    OK Some real hockey questions!

    If there is a play stoppage/lock-out?.

    Do the players who fall under CBA CLAUSES which have # of games played as a factor get their ‘count’ adjusted?

    Players with bonuses for # of games played… how does that affect them.

    If the lockout means no playoffs or shortened playoffs… again some players have bonuses relating to # of playoff games.

    Can trading of players continue.

    What happens to next season’s crops of players who needed this season to meet UFA and other status.

    These are questions that I Bett Man-y are Fehr-ing to bring up.

  33. I’m not exactly crying for the millionaire players, but it’s not crazy for them to expect a reasonable share of their employers’ revenues. Demanding that they take a 20% pay cut is really pretty ridiculous.

  34. frontenac1 says:

    Aj. Hear ya buddy! Outside pounding back Vodka Soda and Lime. Got Bob Marley playin and the Mrs.doing up some burgers on the “que. Hotter than the Hubs Of Hell,but damn life is nice eh? Go Habs Go!!!

  35. Phil C says:

    If you are going to have guaranteed contracts, having a term limit is a good idea, otherwise the risk is ridiculous. This is in the player’s interest as well, because every time an injured player walks away with his guaranteed contract, it has to come out of shared revenues, so there is less money for everyone. This issue should be easy, IMO.

    Arbitration and entry level contracts seem like a red herring to me. I doubt they stay on the table for long.

    In the end it’s always about the money. This dispute will come down to how the players and owners will share the money. If I were the players union, I would give up a percentage of the revenue in exchange for better working conditions (ie. travel, rest periods, less back to back games, better rules for head shots, etc). Most of the players will make more money then they really need, so it’s a good opportunity to use the owner’s greed to create a better workplace so that they will be healthy enough to enjoy their money when they retire. There’s no point in being rich if you don’t have your health.

  36. SmartDog says:

    Question: If the contract negotiations are still going nowwhere come September… do the teams still train? Does everything stop or do some activities continue?

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • habstrinifan says:

      If I recall correctly in previous disputes players trained on their own.
      Which is understandable cause of insurance liabilities issue etc.

    • aj says:

      It all depends on whether the season will start on either late November or early December. They’re paid players so I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t train even if the negotiations would continue till September to October.

      EDIT: Unless the NHL ‘offically’ announce or if the CBA talks will definitely go south, then we’ll likely see 2005 repeat again.

    • wjc says:

      Depends when the deadline is.

      wjc

    • commandant says:

      The CBA does not expire until September 15th, there can be no lockout before that date, so training camps may start.

      Go Habs Go!
      NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
      Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

  37. aj says:

    (This isn’t hockey related) Gosh, its HOT right now! I feel like I’m gonna melt by this heat-wave.

    Anybody here who feels they just want want to hit the swimming pool or is out vacationing right now? I need to go freshen’ up. However, I’m likin’ the Summer season too!

  38. frontenac1 says:

    If there is a work stoppage this year,what are the odds that RDS would pick up Dog”s Games? Would be nice.

    • ed lopaz says:

      I think that would make the Bulldog players with 2 way contracts at least partial “scabs”.

      Seems like a conflict in and of itself.

      • Jan_pronounced_Yan says:

        Your comment makes no sense.

        Never mind the whole two-way contract thing, which has been brought up many times in the past as not having anything to do with whether or not a player can be sent down to the AHL.

        How would those players be scabs exactly? Aren’t we looking at a lockout situation, and not a player’s strike? How would they be scabs for playing hockey in a league other than the NHL?

        I’m not sure I understand what you were getting at.

        • ed lopaz says:

          imagine you’re louis leblanc and you are playing in hamilton.
          your team mates from last season are not playing, but you are.

          rds shows up and shoves a microphone in your face between periods.

          they ask “how do you feel, louis, playing tonight knowing your NHL “brothers” are not as fortunate?

          how do you think louis will feel?

          like a “partial scab” – not exactly a scab – but still feeling the same way that a scab is made to feel.

          like its wrong for him to be playing, and especially wrong to be on RDS

          • Clay says:

            During the last lockout, many players played in Europe or other leagues in North America, and no one questioned it. This is no different. You are misguided in this one Ed.

            __________________________
            ☞ The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. ~ Richard Feynman ☜

    • wjc says:

      Pick up dogs games 0% to nil.

      wjc

  39. joeybarrie says:

    Lots of criticism for the owners and players alike. YES they make millions of dollars. But its fair for the players to want to make their fair share.
    philosophically speaking no one deserves to get paid 8 million dollars to play 82 games of hockey. Especially when the rest of us (for the most part) do our mundane job for 50k a year to pay for school, kids, food, taxes, vacations, etc, etc.
    However, how many people go to watch the Montreal Canadiens, because Molson owns them?
    How many go to see Carey Price play? How many go cause they love Cole, or MaxPac.
    The players make the league. They deserve their fair share compared to what the owners make.
    I dont believe it is about greed. I believe its about not being taken advantage of and getting fair value for your role.
    Not exactly fair that my company is making 100 million dollars a year, but the employees who are responsible for that revenue are only making a tiny percentage.

    • JUST ME says:

      I am not sure that there are that many individuals able to afford a ticket in Montreal. Of course corporations help and some die hard fans break their piggy bank just to be able to attend to one game a year. That`s where the glorious name of les canadiens de Montréal comes into the picture. They have been dwelling on it for a while but let`s not assume that it is for ever.

      Not sure the economic situation is getting better … But the TV experience is more complete so you never know…

      The thing is that we do not have any choice to deal with it but more and more they are on a different planet and it`is hard to relate to their problems. Drew Brees 100 milions for 5 years 60 garanteed . I mean seriously ?

      • joeybarrie says:

        The Bell center is sold out every game. So there are 21,273 people who can buy tickets to Montreal hockey games.
        In business the value of something is basically what people are willing to pay for it.
        To be honest, if you are sold out every night, basic business principle suggests your prices are too low.

        • boing007 says:

          How about the prices are just about right for those 21,000 who are capable of buying a ticket to fill the Bell Centre every night?

          Richard R
          Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

          • joeybarrie says:

            But you understand the owners set the prices at a spot where they can make the most money. Not the best price to ensure everyone in Montreal can afford tickets.
            Not everyone gets to drive a Mercedes. Some of us have to drive Nissans.
            Some can only eat at McDonalds, some can afford Toque.
            Besides. What s the cheapest seat in the Bell center? $40. About the price of a decent dinner. How much does it cost to go to any bar in Montreal and have 3-4 beers and a snack? About $40. How much is a ticket to La Ronde, or whatever its called now?
            How much is a ticket to a rock concert?
            It seems at parity to me.

        • habsavvy says:

          it’s most corporate sales.
          businesses can afford tickets, but fans can’t.
          I’ve never been to the Bell cente to see a game.
          why?

          because I can’t afford the ticket prices.

    • wjc says:

      Without owners there would be no where to go to watch your hero’s.

      If it were to start all over again would you form a league, purchase a team, build an arena (rent one). You would need plenty of money.
      Molson invest $500,000.000.00 he wants a return on his investment.

      So they sit back and let Bettman do their bidding. They have done well with Bettman so far.

      wjc

  40. Gumper Knows Best says:

    commandant says:
    July 14, 2012 at 3:01 pm How many of the 30 teams in the league play in arenas that were funded by the government.

    Now those teams are again threatening to lock out the players and deprive the people of those communities who funded the arena of the teams they subsidized.

    Someone should look into a class action suit here.
    =====
    Useless post as there is no definition of what arenas are tax funded and what specific taxes are used to fund the same. The poster assumes it is all about citizens funding forgetting there are several new taxes that end up in the hands of community visitors.

    Class action suit? If I wasn’t laughing so hard I would respond to the idiocy of that suggestion. A clueless suggestion concerning class action suits in the US. Sounds like a wannabe lawyer because they have read National Enquirer.

    • I’m not sure commandant is on solid legal ground, but his point is certainly reasonable. When team owners go to the city to make the case for subsidies, they surely come armed with a wide range of stats showing how much they’ll contribute to the town’s economy (sales at bars during hockey games, merchandise sales for local merchants, jobs created at the Bell Centre and the money those employees spend in the community, that sort of thing).

      The implicit promise, then, is that the team agrees to contribute to the economy in exchange for government cash. You could make an argument — a bit stretched but certainly not crazy — that in locking out its players, teams are remiss in their obligations to contribute to the economy. At the very least, they could be asked to give the subsidies back.

      Mike Boone: “With Gainey at my side, I’d walk into any dark alley in the world.”

      • commandant says:

        Gumper just has a grudge with me for some reason.

        Funny how he cut off the quote right before I said, I’d need to do more research on this and I’ve not got the time, nor anyone to pay my hourly rate to see if this would even be possible. I even said I doubt it would be possible and it was a crazy Saturday morning thought.

        But if I said the sky was blue, gumper would say that I’m an idiot and the sky is clearly green, just because he wants to disagree with me.

        Also my J.D. from Queen’s University, and being called to the Bar by the Law Society of Upper Canada says I’m not just a wannabe lawyer.

        Go Habs Go!
        NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
        Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

  41. frontenac1 says:

    Wjc. Agreed they are Legit expenses,no argument. But when you buy your RRSP and write it off it is a saving(taxfunded)that year.When you pull that money out you pay tax on the withdrawl.(Tax recovery)depending on your income situation at that time it might be more or less than original saving.It aint a freebee.Theoretically RRSP”s are there to ease the strain on Govt support of seniors.Don’t mean to sound like a nerd but I worked in this area for quite awhile.Whether certain business expenses are worthwhile or not is a long debate. Maybe those corporate seat write offs do serve an important purpose.The point I was making was there is various levels of govt money going into the mix,and not everyone gets the benefit on the same seat purchase.

    • wjc says:

      RRSP’S might have been a bad example, however, if a corporation buys a box and uses that box and at tax time uses it to reduce taxes, it is just part of doing business.

      If it is government money and they are investing in a community so money flows, taxes, bars, restaurants, specialty shops etc. That means that team is contributing to overall prosperity of that community.

      It is a win/win for everyone, including the fan that follows that team. This does not give anyone the right to tell that franchise how to conduct its business, especially when it is a part of 29 other like businesses.

      Yes, you are correct only a small minority get the benefit of seat purchases. But such is life, my friend.

      wjc

  42. frontenac1 says:

    Commandant. Understood,two separate issues.Point I was trying to make was taxpayers have an interest in this whole thing on different levels. If there is a work stoppage again,I think one big winner will be Minor Hockey again.During the last stoppage I was coaching minor hockey at the Midget level and we had unbelievable fan attendance on the weekends.The kids loved it the fans loved it (many were surprised at how good it was) Anyway,a silver lining is always good.Hola!

    • wjc says:

      However, with that said, the midgets as entertaining as they are, are not the Montreal Canadiens. A good idea to go back to the basics and the grass routes though. Coaching gets you involved instead of sitting and observing.

      I know this was meant for Commandant, but couldn’t resist.

      wjc

  43. EasternOntarioHabsFan says:

    makes me yearn for the days where players just played the game and didn’t complain

    • chanchilla says:

      the things i would do to get paid to play hockey, my lord.

    • Max_a_million says:

      That’s just not fair. These guys perform a service that people value highly, and pay highly to see. The money is there, and there is a debate as to how much they should receive. An average NHL career is very short, and players need to maximize their earning potential. It’s a backwards life cycle when you do all of your earning at the beginning of your career. More than half of players play less than 100 games in their career. 5% play only one game. So it is a big deal that affects their livelihood, and they have put a lifetime of effort into reaching the pinnacle.

      You, I, and everyone here would take the best money offer made to them. The owners and GM’s time and time again make these monetary offers. Then the league wants to go back, and reduce their pay on contracts that have already been negotiated. That’s total BS.

      Wasn’t it nice back in the old days when the rich owners could screw the players over without anyone complaining about it? No, it was not! No, it is not nice to have the rich owners trying to screw over the players now either. That’s just ridiculous. They have signed contracts. Just imagine in life if a car dealership came back to you for more money, because they didn’t like the contract they signed. If your employer just decided to cut your wages, because they don’t like how much you make.

      • wjc says:

        Life is not fair. Firstly, players do not perform a service, they are entertainers plain and simple.

        There are no bad guys, it is just business.

        Have you ever heard of downsizing, out sourcing etc. Unions go on strike for better benefits/wages all the time. Workers get locked out and lose wages/benefits all the time.

        Why are people over reacting to a beginning proposal, the bargaining is just beginning. The playes will not need a benefit dance to raise money for them.

        Downsizing is a fact of life, schools closing because of less kids in the system, radio stations going french, going from rock to news.

        wjc

    • JUST ME says:

      The good old days when the players were more afraid of the end of the month than the end of the world…Seems so far away…

    • wjc says:

      When was that, exactly?

      wjc

  44. ed lopaz says:

    Man I feel so terrible for those poor church mice that play for the NHLPA.

    Those guys must have to work a second job in the summer just to feed their families.

    Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains!!

    Think Marx had the NHLPA in mind?

    Me neither.

    • HabFab says:

      Poor PK had to take a job at the zoo shoveling animal do do and Carey has to rope calf’s. Trevor went home to work on the family farm, Gomez is guiding sport fishermen. Poor Gio is recovering so can’t work and with little kids…but I understand that Cole has been raiding the Ghost’s vegetable garden to help the Captain out.

      • ed lopaz says:

        I just wanted to bring a little reality to this site.

        When I was a kid the players were used and abused.

        Today the worst players in the league are making close to $10,000 a game.

        This is not a problem where one side is the villain and the other the victim.

        • HabFab says:

          Don’t have to convince me, I grew up and went to school with some of the Hab’s Greats kids!

        • wjc says:

          Hear ye….hear ye….Mr. Lopaz

          The fans are the victims, but that is by choice. I am a fan, but, I will not be a victim, if indeed worse comes to worse.

          The children on this site have to realize, it is a big world out there, and the choices are endless….you don’t have to protest, or become a victim….indifference scares the living crap out of both sides…believe me.

          wjc

    • neumann103 says:

      yeah ed,

      My grade 4 teacher’s neighbour was a winger for the Boston Bruins and he had to work a second job just to feed his family.

      Great that all the money could just go to the owners instead of the players.When their careers were over at 30i am sure all that money going to the owners made things seem even better.

      Yeah that horrible evil union actually got the talent paid instead of scrounging for table scraps when they got kicked to the curb.

      Seriously just STFU

      “Et le but!”

      • pmaraw says:

        nobody cares about your 4th grade teachers neighbour playing wing for the bruins.

        • neumann103 says:

          perhaps “nobody” is too draconian but you are making mg point.

          A substantial number (i would suggest less than “everybody” ) doesn’t care that 40 years ago many NHL players did have to work a second job in the off season and that the money instead went to owners

          The NHL players association has resulted in people at the top of yhdir profession bring compensated at something approaching market rates.
          The bizarre pro owners faction that seems to think that players should play for less than subsistence wages simply because it is a game we all love is nuts.

          “Et le but!”

          • wjc says:

            Maybe the pendalum swung to far. The result is often indifferent mult-millionaire players who might be more interested in the stock market and golfing on the off season then pursuing a championship. Can you blame them play from September to June risking injury and traveling thousands of miles, living out of a suitcase.

            After a while anyone would burn out, and for what to traded somewhere on a moments notice, with families and kids to consider. Cranky coaches, nasty fans, demanding fans, sign this, sign that, internet, twitter, media, insane interviews. People looking for a scoop at your expense.

            No wonder after a few years, they say, “you know it is just a business, and I am just a piece of flesh.

            wjc

      • boing007 says:

        Sure, but now they’re getting paid too much.

        Richard R
        Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  45. frontenac1 says:

    Agreed Commandant! And don’t forget about about the corporate write off of seats and boxes which is funded by all taxpayers .A benefit unavailable to the average guy.

    • commandant says:

      You are right, but it would be argued that those are purchases made for a one day or one year event (in the case of season tickets) and there is no obligation to provide future events.

      However with the capital to build these arenas, and the leases these teams signed, you might be able to argue that there is an obligation to put on the games.

      Go Habs Go!
      NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
      Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • wjc says:

      Are you talking about a tax write off. They buy the seats or box and then use the expense as a tax write off. Legitimate write off. You buy RRSP’S and write them off…you still have to buy them.

      wjc

  46. frontenac1 says:

    Woody is Habs fan? Nice. I thought he was great in that TV show Cheers too.

  47. commandant says:

    How many of the 30 teams in the league play in arenas that were funded by the government.

    Now those teams are again threatening to lock out the players and deprive the people of those communities who funded the arena of the teams they subsidized.

    Someone should look into a class action suit here.

    It probably won’t fly, and I don’t have the time to research it right now but the crazy thoughts that pop in my head on a Saturday afternoon.

    Go Habs Go!
    NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
    Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • ed lopaz says:

      really what should be done is 10 franchises should be folded.

      those bottom 10 are never going to make any money for the owners, and are always going to drag down the top 20 teams. year after year.

      would you be in favour of cutting the NHLPA by 33%??

      didn’t think so.

      • wjc says:

        Everybody makes tons of money. Do not fool yourself, it depends which money stream you are counting. The everyday running of the team or the stream where the league divy’s up 3.2 billion dollars

        When I snap my fingers you will wake up……stop dreaming. snap, snap……WAKE UP!!!

        wjc

        • ed lopaz says:

          there are at least 10 franchises that will NEVER make money.

          wjc, not sure where you get your facts from, but stating that all of the teams share all of the revenue equally is totally false.

          check your facts dude.

          there are teams like Toronto that make a ton of profit every year.

          there are other teams that will never turn a profit.

          those are the facts.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      A great site to get acquainted with how much risk these poor businessmen who assume the risk of icing an NHL team are actually assuming, rather than passing on to taxpayers as we saw in Phoenix, when an owner who was losing his shirt and couldn’t get any help from his fellow monopolists tried to declare bankruptcy but was left twisting in the wind, and the citizens of Glendale holding the bag, is the following:

      http://www.fieldofschemes.com/

  48. Chuck says:

    It’s the classic chicken vs. egg syndrome: the owners wouldn’t have a league without the players, and the players wouldn’t have access to rich contracts without the owners.

    Perhaps the first understanding of the negotiations should be that both sides are equally important in the equation, and start from there.

    The problem is that the owners shoulder most of the risk. If the economy goes in the tank, the player still has his guaranteed contract, while the owners have to bite the bullet, and still cover expenses. If the players want a larger part of the pie, then they need to be willing to share the financial risk/reward.

    After each season, take the total league-wide hockey-related revenue (TV contracts, ticket sales, advertising, merchandising, etc.) and add it up. Subtract from that total hockey-related expenses (building operating costs, equipment costs, taxes, insurance, transportation, etc.) and give the players, say, 55% of the leftover for the upcoming season (the salary pool).

    As for the remaining 45% to the owners, it would be up to them to decide how it would be divided between the 30 teams.

    Here’s where I’d change it, though: as true partners in the league, if the players want to benefit from a rising operating profit, then they should also be willing to take a hit should the pie shrink. Instead of getting a contract with a set dollar value, the player would get a contract for the percentage of the salary pool. For example, if player ‘x’ signs for 5% of the team’s salary pool over for two years and the pool goes up by 10% the following season, then the player would earn 10% more; if it drops by 10%, the player earns 10% less.

    For any given season a team’s total contracts can not be valued at more that 100% of their salary pool, nor can player earn different percentages of the pool over the term of his contract. He can sign for 5% for 4 years, not 10%, 5%, 3%, 2%. This would discourage ridiculously long, front-loaded contracts.

    Because the teams put the effort into scouting/drafting/developing a player, I can understand why they would be hesitant to let their hard work and effort fly out the window by setting the age for free agency too low. I’d say that a player’s first contract can not be more than 3 years in length. His second can not be more than 4 years. No restriction on length for subsequent contracts, with a player being eligible for free agency after fulfilling his 7th contract year.

    Example:

    **Player ‘A’ signs 3-year first contract, 4-year second contract. He’s then eligible for free agency after 2 contracts.
    **Player ‘B’ signs 3-year first contract, 3-year second contract. He’s not available for free agency after 2 contracts because he hasn’t met the 7-year minimum.
    **Player ‘C’ signs a 3-year first contract, a 3-year second contract, then a 5-year third contract. He’d be eligible for free agency after his 11th year.

    For arguments’ sake suppose that the league-wide profit for a given season is 1 billion. The salary pool gets 55% of that. ($550,000,000). That get’s divided equally between the 30 teams ($18,333,333). If a player were to sign for 5% over 2 years, in his first hear he’d make $916,000.

    If the league-wide profit was to go up 10% over the following season, the player would then earn $1,100,000,000 x 55% = $605,000,000 / 30 = $20,166,666 x 5% = $1,008,333.

    Of course, if profit was to drop by 10%, then the player would make the same percentage less.

    ___________________________________________________
    Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

    • wjc says:

      The owners start the league and hire the players. No question who the chicken is. There is a lot more to the pie that you do know about.

      3.2 billion dollars was earned last year. Pay-per-view is a large part of that. Television rights is another part. Guess what? You need Southern exposure to make that work. To make it grow you need NBC to be happy.

      This is not a mom and pop operation.

      wjc

      • boing007 says:

        How about some NASCAR/NHL promotional tours? In the south, of course.

        Richard R
        Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  49. JohnBellyful says:

    The owners’ initial offer IS insulting to the players – AND to the fans, because of the implications it has for next season, but then our feelings don’t count for much with either side, we’re merely grist for their mill(ions).
    However, there’s also a consensus among the informed that the owners’ offer is but the gambit in what promises to be a hard-fought game of chess between two evenly-matched adversaries.
    Here’s one way it could play out:

    Owners: pawn to E5 – Assert divine right, lower players’ share of revenue from 57 per cent to 46 per cent.
    Players: pawn to A5 – Invoke spirit of Samuel Gompers and demand increase in share of revenue to 60 per cent, including any new revenue stream such as NHL-certified players’ sperm.

    Owners: Queen to H5 – Set 10 years of service as the requisite for the granting of unrestricted free agency (the additional years are to include maintaining grounds of owners’ summer retreats)
    Players: Rook to A6– Demand that years of service for the granting of unrestricted free agency be reduced to three, and that the status of availability be given a new designation, knight errant.

    Owners: queen to A5 – Eliminate arbitration; rely on both parties to employ common sense and goodwill to arrive at a mutually satisfactory contract
    Players: rook to A6 – Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

    Owners: Queen across to A5 – Extend length of entry level contract to five years and introduce tithing system
    Players: pawn to H5 – Restrict entry level contract to maximum 200 games-and-their-equivalent, including exhibition contests, scrimmages, development camps, and intense practice drills

    Owners: Queen to C7 – Prohibit contracts longer than five years
    Players: Rook to H6– Prohibit contracts shorter than four years

    Owners: Pawn to H4– Place 10 per cent of players’ salaries AND first-born in escrow
    Players: Pawn to F6– Place 5 per cent of players’ salaries in escrow and explain what escrow is

    Owners: Queen to B7 – Set salary cap at $70 million and adjust annually according to rate of inflation in North America
    Players: King to F7– Set salary cap at $70 million and adjust annually according to rate of inflation in Venezuela

    Owners: Queen to B7 – Lower the floor on team payrolls
    Players: Queen to D3 – But add a nice carpet of plush bonuses for everything from showing up for the team picture to carrying one’s hockey stick to and from the dressing room and the bench.

    Owners: Queen to B8 – Refuse players permission to play in the Winter Olympics (but remain open-minded about participation in the Summer Olympics)
    Players: Queen to H7– Grant players permission to see the Winter Olympics in person and the Summer Olympics on TV

    Owners: Queen to C8 – Swear oath of fealty to NHL commissioner
    Players: King to G6 – Swear at NHL commissioner

    Owners: Queen to E6 – Stalemate/Lockout/Watching chick flics and HGTV with wife

    • Chuck says:

      No doubt that’s exactly how it will go down. :)

      ___________________________________________________
      Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

    • punkster says:

      Trying to figure out which gambit this opening resembles but I can’t find it. Let’s dub it the Buttman/Fehrful Gambit.

      ***Subbang Baby!!!***

    • wjc says:

      Check mate…..oh wait a minute. I think I get it. Wow, who would have thought they would go to this much trouble to make Scott Gomez sit out a year.

      Hey, you got your wish, Gomez will have one year left on his contract at 4.3 million dollars. Mr. Bellyful you have broken the code….brilliant!

      wjc

    • HardHabits says:

      Amateurs. Everybody missed Tank to HH.

    • wjc says:

      This is not an offer…it is a proposal….you have to wait awhile for the take if or leave it offer.

      Believe me nobody is insulted, you have to start somewhere….they start at the bottom and the other side start at the top.

      You go in to buy a car. Sticker price is $45,000.00 dollars. You offer $30,000.00 dollars. Salesman doesn’t throw you out. He counters with less options, and you counter back with higher offer but certain options. He says he will talk to his manager. You sit and wait.

      He comes back with another possibility, you listen and say only if you do so and so. You end up at $39,000.00 dollars. He sends you upstairs where they attempt to add on a bunch of stuff…rust coating, scotch guard, pin stripping…..you accept some reject others. Wife looks anxious and you speed it up a bit….you throw some tax on to the deal and you end up paying $47,000.00 when all is said and done.

      Everybody congratulates each other on the fine choice you made. You leave the lot, the car depreciates to $33,000.00 by the time you hit the street….and 5 years later you are trading it in for another new car. Aw, the negotiation process.

      wjc

    • habstrinifan says:

      My neighbour’s snotty nosed, buck-tooth, high-socked, bespectacled, darling who sleeps with a picture of Bettman over his bed says that he , and I quote, “can kick your (wheeze wheeeze puff pufff).. arse in chess”.

  50. frontenac1 says:

    Zepfan,funny eh how a rumour starts and Hollywood runs with it! I’ve been down to the Yucatan 5 times,visiting some amazing Mayan sites.Fascinating place. The Maya were able to develop advanced mathematics because they discovered.the concept of Zero and how it worked in calculations centuries before any other cultures.Last time I was down there on a tour of Tulum,someone asked about the 2012 end of world thing and the guide laughed and said”That’s not what it means,It is a reset of measuring human time.Like resetting the odometer of your car.Life will go on as always”Hola!

  51. TorontoHabsFan says:

    Nice Pete Seeger video Boone! Don’t know if you were aware, but Woody Guthrie woulda been a hundred today.

    This machine continues to kill fascists.

    • wjc says:

      Fact: It was rumored, based on well known assumed facts that Woody Guthrie was most probably, if not definitely, a die hard Montreal Canadiens fan.

      You can check this out of the “This maybe happened” site on the internet.

      wjc

  52. Hobie Hansen says:

    If there was a lockout I wouldn’t be the least bit concerned. The last decade or so I’ve really gotten into the other hockey leagues, especially the OHL.

    Last year I took in a bunch of Ottawa 67s games and got to see guys like Yakupov, Tinordi, Schiffle when their respective teams paid a visit. I saw the Suuban brothers a couple times when Belleville was in town and saw young stars from the 67s like Cici, Prince and Toffoli all season.

    It’s fantastic hockey! And with today’s technology it is so easy to follow. I can’t claim to know anymore than 20 or 30 guys in the OHL but I’d have all the rosters, stats and everything I’d need to know right on my smartphone while sitting in the crowd.

    And there’s also the AHL. I’d almost want to watch a Bulldogs game as much as a Canadiens game right now anyway. I hope there’s a good way to stream Hamilton’s games this year?

    And if there’s a lockout and the season is lost, guys like Galchenyuk, Tinordi and Beaulieu will have another season under their belts and probably be ready to start playing in the NHL.

  53. Xkhann says:

    I love reading these sort of articles about our team, should’ve given him 12million, when it’s going towards a worthy cause then price shouldn’t be the issue. I have a feeling, with this particular hockey franchise especially – Les Canadiens, that they enjoy to employ the sort of players that don’t traditionally become great players. They like the guys who go undrafted, or who’re overlooked, passed over, etc. It speaks volumes to the character setting the franchise holds in esteem, and I applaud them for that. True, hockey is a business, but it is also a place where the human spirit is celebrated and displayed. These off-ice stories rarely ever (if never) mentions the players contributions to these programs, and rightfully so, to upkeep the humbleness of their personalities one shouldn’t delve into these details. But for guys like Scott Gomez, or our Captain, Marky, Pleky, etc. who get a lot of negative attention for their contracts, not enough is said of their off-ice contributions to the Montreal/Quebec/Canadian communities that they are apart of, and as I said before it rightfully shouldn’t be said, rather, us as fans, should quietly accept and appreciate that part of the game that we so often neglect due to our tunnel-vision mentality to what’s on the ice only. I’ve noticed Montreal is a very involved organization in the community and a lot of their players have many foundations set-up to help out those in need, and it’s this fact (not always about the 24) that I love this franchise, french or not french, always. I’m sure every other franchise has these things as well..but I only care about ours :) GO HABS GO!!!

    • wjc says:

      Not to break any bubbles, but a lot of what you speak of is written into the contract, when it is signed.

      Community involvement is sometimes/mostly part of the contract, that must be fulfilled. It is called good will.

      wjc

  54. HabFab says:

    See the optimists are holding steady in the poll at 75%…
    GO OPTIMISTS!!

    HH and Timo must be on vacation :)

  55. jon514 says:

    Donald Fehr is gonna go all Patty Hewes on the NHL owners. I bet he’s spent the past year collecting all of their dirty laundry.

    “This Team is Less than the sum of it’s parts while Gomez is one of those parts.”

  56. j2w4habs25 says:

    I think we need to call a protest outside the Bell Centre – i will cry all winter long if there is another lockout. Please Hab Fans – I’am sure we can protest and get the whole intire league to do the same, We need hockey

    Carey Price #31

  57. kempie says:

    Who locks out players twice in less than 10 years?

  58. mrhabby says:

    disagree about a work stopage. in 2005 neither side was talking and this lead to the lockout. stubborn on both sides and the system need a change . this time around both sidea are talking with the first shot sent by the NHL , the ball is back in the NHLPA side. seems to me the compromise will be somewhere in the middle as far as revenues are concerned. iam totally optimistic of a settlement before Oct comes around.

    • commandant says:

      The problem isn’t just the 46 vs 57 number. If thats all it was, meet at 52 or 53 and everything will be fine… cap around 64 million, let’s move on.

      Its everything they’ve asked for here.

      The redefinition of HRR has the effect of making that 46% number even lower.

      The killing of arbitration, lengthening ELCs, and 10 years for UFA status, kills the bargaining power of players between the ages of 23-30, and really hurts them.

      The max 5 year deals with no room for any change in salary throughout the contract is just a ridiculous handcuff to any bargaining power.

      The whole proposal is a mess.

      Go Habs Go!
      NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
      Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • HabFab says:

        Negotiating 101
        – NHLPA counters with 55%
        – NHL counters with we leave HRR as it is 53%
        – NHLPA counters with drop the escrow 51%
        – NHL counters with we leave salary arbitration as is 50%

        Next points;
        – NHLPA counters ETL at 4 years
        – NHLPA counters FA with 7 years NHL not pro experience or 29 years old
        – NHL replaces 5 year contract offer with an even amount for contract life or a low variance rate between the years…this would self regulate length of contracts and close the present loop hole.

        Make it so #1

        • punkster says:

          Have you run this by the high finance guy in NY? Just wonder how many Belgians it would take for him to come up with something better?

          ***Subbang Baby!!!***

          • HabFab says:

            Heck, I could do better with some Belgians. This was motivated by OJ only my friend! Besides they won’t agree to his demands, Gordie will remain the only 52 year old to play a game.

  59. LA Loyalist says:

    As much as I know in my head that the NHL offer is entirely posturing, it shows how little good faith Gary B has and what a slime-bag he is.

    So much for the owners and NHLPA being partners.

    This could be a very ugly autumn. Hope I’m wrong.

  60. frontenac1 says:

    Yeah Boone, I believe Souray pooched his wrist so many times ,he needed a bone graft to fix it.Nasty business.

    • LA Loyalist says:

      Bone grafting is pretty bizarre, I had it for jaw surgery. They have like “powdered” bone, like the old-school Poly-filla that you had to mix us.

      Somethings it is better not to know. Sorry. :-)

  61. AceMagnum says:

    It doesn’t matter. December 21, 2012 we’re all toast anyway. Thank you Mayans…

    —————————-

    THE KINGS ARE KINGS!! 2012

  62. frontenac1 says:

    Prust started helping the Kids back when he was still playing Junior?I’m liking this guy more and more.

  63. aj says:

    - With another work stoppage possibly looming till December, who’s looking forward to a possible lockout?

    I don’t like it but it may just happen. BTW, Subban was in TO with the other members of the PA discussing this offer. I’m feeling he may be the guy who leaked the info to Renaud Lavoie of RDS (what i’m saying is my own presumptive speculation, don’t believe it anyway and i could be wrong too).

  64. Ron says:

    2 very good articles on Prust. In the second one it states he is rehabbing from hand surgery. How much is this going to effect his face pounding. I believe Souray had the same problem and seemed to damage it everytime he fought. Hope Prust’s is minor.

  65. frontenac1 says:

    Loved the George Carlin clip. He was one of my favourites since the 60″s. We could sure use him now. R.I.P George

  66. naweed235 says:

    So what do the players do if there is a lockout? will they all be in Hamilton???

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I remember for years it was Edmonton considered to have the best ice. Do you know Frank if boards come into play in this rating? I am so glad we finally got rid of those concrete seamless glass boards.

    • Heisenberg_ says:

      Not to brag, but I’m pretty sure that I make the best ‘ice’ around. ;)

      __________________________________________________________________ “Never give up control. Live life on your own terms. Every life comes with a death sentence.”

  67. Ian Cobb says:

    IMPORTANT SUMMIT NEWS—Ticket purchase deadline!

    FLYERS!! TAKE FLIGHT INSURANCE JUST IN CASE.
    But I think this will be taken care of in the next month or so.

    We have the largest group going to this years HIO Summit ever!

    We have been given preferential treatment by the hockey club. We are first in line and been given a deal for tickets before they go to the general public.

    The window for this deal closes Wed. July 18th. All money orders must arrive here by Wed. Use a courier so you do not miss out folks.

    Ian
    613-968-9807

    2012 HIO Fan Summit Game Tickets. As many as you want! But act now!
    Oct. 27th against Koivu and his Ducks.
    Total Summit Weekend Itinerary to follow.
    I have been given as many tickets as we need for a very short time limit. But I must pay for them on July 18th.
    So this is the procedure to follow!
    IMPORTANT!
    Do not order or send your information to me, other than by sending me a money order with a self addressed envelope and stamp on it, to send your tickets back to you.

    (international money order works best from U.S., Courier also works best)
    Two levels of seats, two prices. $90ea. and $110ea.
    This includes game ticket, Hall of Fame Tour ticket and one ticket for the draw at the Montreal Canadiens Children’s charity Foundation Raffle.
    All orders must come to me in the form of a money order (only, not a check) with a (self addressed envelope and stamp) so I can mail your tickets back to you.
    Cut off date for this deal, is July 18th.

    Everyone is welcome, but we ask each ticket holder to attend the Pre Game dinner and each ticket holder to participate by bringing a gift to the Montreal Canadiens Children’s Foundation Charity Raffle.

    Send by courier to Ian Cobb
    63 Village Dr.
    Belleville Ontario, Canada.
    K8P 4K2
    For Summit tickets, News, Pictures and comments
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Montreal-Canadiens-We-Are-Fans-Summit/197390760316125

  68. HabinBurlington says:

    If indeed the NHL start is delayed due to lockout/strike what happens with the AHL season? Is a player signed to a two way contract still required to play in the AHL if the NHL season is not being played? Or because most contracts are between NHL teams and the players does the AHL’s agreement between players and teams fall under the umbrella of the NHL agreement. I can’t remember what happened during the last lockout/strike.

    I would be happy to watch the Bulldogs this season if there is no NHL.

    • commandant says:

      The AHL will continue to play.

      Players who do not require waivers to be sent to the AHL will go there.

      Players who do require waivers (under the current CBA) may need to be waived to go to the AHL. Last time there was a gentleman’s agreement between GMs that they would not claim the player’s off waivers.

      Unfortunately that might not fly this time because Doug MacLean broke the agreement and claimed Francois Beauchemin from the Habs.

      Go Habs Go!
      NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
      Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • HabFab says:

      And for the Habs, the players who were probably going to Hamilton that require waivers are;
      Blunden
      Desjardins
      Palushaj
      St Denis

  69. j2w4habs25 says:

    OCTOBER just come already! :( screw summer!

    Carey Price #31

  70. habstrinifan says:

    Mom! Are we there yet? Mom! Are we there yet?

  71. HabinBurlington says:

    So in other sports news Drew Brees will only make 40million dollars for this upcoming season.

  72. aj says:

    I’m thinking that maybe Bergevin should offer Darche an office job or anything that doesn’t involve him playing with an NHL team.

  73. mrhabby says:

    give it at least 2 years before the habs are in relatively good shape. his work has only started.

  74. LA Loyalist says:

    Dude, I want some of those guys gone as much as you, but we have to be realistic. How would YOU get rid of Gomez (short of handing him a cinder block and saying “jump”).

    It will take a whole cycle through the trade deadline in March to really get a grip of what he is trying to do and whether or not it is successful.

    For the moment we are a bit bigger and grittier, which while it is not “skill” directly, should help at both ends of the ice.

    And with the studs we have coming, we can, for once be a little patient.

    Of course the wild card is Therrien. Nobody wanted him or called him, so it’s going to be interesting.

  75. JUST ME says:

    Bergevin is not going for the cup don`t you realize ? It`s as if for you it`s another day at the office ! This organizartion was destroyed in it`s core. You have to start from the base wich he did. We now have hockey minds working on every levels that a professionnal team should.We have some good yougnsters in the farm system and must take all the time needed to build.

    Face the facts. What did Bergevin say ? Not the media Bergevin.
    I`m gonna take a long hard look at what i have. That say`s a lot.
    I am not buying out Gomez . A hint ?
    Gomez is still a Habs . Need more help ?

    So based on the fact that it cannot be worse than last year where everything went wrong ,if underachievers achieve and injuries stay away from the team, maybe we will make it but it would be an error to think that Bergevin did not do the job.

  76. AllHailTheFlower says:

    Prust is an upgrade on Staubitz, Armstrong is an upgrade on Darche, and Boullion is an upgrade on Campoli.

    Rome is coming along nicely, just slowly.

  77. wjc says:

    I guess Gautier wasn’t so bad after all.

    wjc

  78. HabFab says:

    Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  79. wjc says:

    prediction…..Canadiens will be 6th or 7th

    wjc

  80. wjc says:

    Who, are these people in the know? Nobody is in the know. Just an opinion……..no shortage of those……..opinions/in the know, two completely different things.

    wjc

  81. pmaraw says:

    cause those calenders have the same months in them

  82. joeybarrie says:

    I think its a mistake to have that type of loophole.
    The huge ridiculous contracts that our team is unwilling to sign (however crappy it is that we took one on) is the worst thing about NHL hockey.
    Look at the Rangers. They continue to sign huge ridiculous contracts and do not see any success with them. They dump the players any way they can, and can continue to make them again.
    I feel like if you sign the contract you should be responsible for the cap hit till the very end no matter what… Unless they are traded. But even if they retire, you decided their value was so great they get 198 million for 16 years.

  83. JUST ME says:

    They will not succeed in having that clause added . At best this clause would take effect on the deals not yet signed.

    Legaly they would have a battle on their hands that they would have a hard time wining. They (owners and G.M.s) offered those stupid deals so they will have to live or die with them.

  84. wjc says:

    Might not have to worry about Gomez until after Christmas. You may have to find another hobby.

    Hint: There will be no amnesty clause, last time was a special circumstance because they moved to a new system. Salary cap.

    So fretting about Gomez when there might be no hockey seems a waste of energy.

    wjc

  85. HabFab says:

    Yes but the smaller markets are pushing against it.

  86. ed lopaz says:

    certain franchises make money, and others never do.

    there are 30 franchises and the league is trying to make the weakest franchises stronger and more competitive.

    its a socialist concept actually.

    otherwise, left on their own, about 10 franchises would instantly fold.

    taking about 250 NHL Players jobs with them

  87. boing007 says:

    True, but out of those 250 players how many are players of above average or exceptional quality? How many of them would be missed?

    Richard R
    Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  88. neumann103 says:

    Phoenix is the only franchise that could collapse instantly.

    There are s bunch of other franchise that are on very shakey ground but most of thsee are in the losing 5-8million a year if you believe Forbes numbers and for some megalomaniac owners that is a reasonable loss to facilitate their ago gratification and/or gets lost in the appreciation in value of the franchise.
    “Et le but!”

  89. wjc says:

    Mr. Lopaz, they all make money. Nobody loses. NHL made 3.2 billion dollars, how could anyone possibly lose.

    Socialist concept??? The owners need each other,otherwise who would they play.

    The players need 30 teams or where would some of them play.

    Nobody is on there own, revenue sharing, caps, and 3.2 billion from Television and pay-per-view. etc.

    wjc

  90. wjc says:

    Habfab, that doesn’t show revenue sharing, that is just the operation of the arena. Creative accounting my friend, creative accounting. The NHL which represents all 30 teams has money streams that are distributed as well. Surely you have heard of Pay-per-view, surely you have heard of Television rights (NBC). These are huge income sources 3.2 billion dollars worth.

    $3.200,000,000,000.00 with interest……with interest. Would you like the interest off of that money.

    Believe me, and I know you won’t, nobody….NOBODY….is losing fnking money in the NHL.

    Maybe some teams at the operational level, but that is covered with revenue sharing.

    wjc

  91. Un Canadien errant says:

    Totally different calendar systems, and the first official European civilization contact with American civilization happened in 1500 CE, well after Julius Ceasar and Caesar Augustus. Also, the latter two didn’t add in months, they renamed existing months after themselves. They fiddled around with an existing calendar the Romans were using, not with the Mayan calendar.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1491:_New_Revelations_of_the_Americas_Before_Columbus

  92. Clay says:

    Besides you correctly stating that you can ‘waste’ your energy as you please; Skippy misses an obvious point (no surprise there). If there is a significant reduction in player share of revenue, an amnesty would be necessary to allow for the teams that would be over the new (and reduced) cap. Of course the amnesty would have to be applied to all teams to be fair.

    __________________________
    ☞ The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. ~ Richard Feynman ☜

  93. wjc says:

    He wasn’t rebuilding, he was fine tuning. The future is in Hamilton.

    wjc

  94. HabFab says:

    Check out Eyes on the Prize and go over to your right…they have one section on Players & Prospects twitters and another on the Montreal Media twitters. Then you have the TSN guys. Someone else has a list of all the players & prospects but I cannot locate right now.

  95. wjc says:

    Habsolutely, will you help me? The Gomez haters are okay, but supporters need help, help me to understand my error.

    If I try to boo, hiss, and trash talk Mr. Gomez, will that help me get accepted on here.

    I am just being positive, and I feel that he is headed for a comeback year. Is it wrong to believe.

    wjc

  96. naweed235 says:

    if you really want to get accepted here make sure that you do not, I repeat, YOU DO NOT, mention CP or PK in the same sentence paragraph that contains the words (trade or suck). Also, “gomez sucks” seems to go a long way with most posters here …
    Otherwise said, forget your own opinion of things!

  97. wjc says:

    Okay, but why would I mention Price and Suban and say they need to be traded or that they sucked.

    Forget my own opinion…..forget my own opinion…..forget my own opinion. They will accept me if I “forget my own opinion….by george, it is working….what was my opinion again?

    wjc

  98. wjc says:

    But, are you only one acquainted with “reality”. Take my head out the sand, so very polite, you could have said azz, but chose sand instead. For that I thank you.

    Oh, I won’t wet my pants, my friend because I am quite familiar with reality. Now lets examine some of this so called reality.

    People say….Gomez is untradable, so that takes away one of your options.

    People say …..Gomez should play in Hamilton, but shouldn’t that happen in training camp

    People say….he has no spot on the team…contrary to reports that say he is still considered part of the team.

    I say Therien will get him going with a different coaching approach, a different style of play. A revitalized Gionta to play with.

    I say at 32 years of age he still has 4 years of good hockey left in him. Maybe not all in Montreal…..who knows.

    Your hate is so deep, I am not sure why, you must have picked him a fantasy pool or something.

    You hated Martin’s coaching style, you hated that Cunneyworth didn’t change much….so just maybe a coaching change was all that was needed to kick start Gomez. If not then he will be set a drift probably somewhere around the trade deadline. He has been around to long to fail at training camp……MARK MY WORDS.

    wjc

  99. kbhab4ever says:

    YES !!!!! 100% Nobody thinks he won’t get a chance at camp ” BUT” NOBODY THINKS THAT HE MAKE THE TEAM.WHO’S SPOT WOULD HE TAKE.The only people who think other wise , well I d have to agree YOU HAVE YOUR HEAD BURIED SOMEWHERE , WITH ALL YOURTALK ABOUT A COME BACK IT HAS A 0 % CHANCE TO EVER HAPPEN IN MY HUMBLE MIND AND REMEMBER WE ALL HAVE ONE

  100. kbhab4ever says:

    It’s just wjc,and all his misguided hope that Gomez is STILL A PLAYER.

  101. Mattyleg says:

    What nationality?
    What does that mean?
    You suspect the Finnish? Or the Dutch?

    -edit- Come to think of it, was it that you were being discriminatory toward French-Canadians? Because that’s what this post of yours would suggest…

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  102. JayK-47 says:

    The only good Dutchman, is a dead Dutchman.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ882QYzr-M


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