Saturday pre-game reads

Subban
Montreal is digging out from under a pretty good snowfall.
And its hockey team is adjusting to life without Mike Cammalleri.

Red Fisher on the trade

Players didn’t know what was going on

Pat Hickey on Pierre Gauthier’s epiphany

Cam Cole on Habs’ woes

Gare Joyce on the long decline of the Canadiens

Stu Hackel on CHaos

Damien Cox’s take

J.T. weighs in

486 Comments

  1. DorvalTony says:

    ”First of all, you have to have continuity if you are to have success,” Pollock told the New York Times. ”I think it gets the manager and the players to become more attached to each other.” – Sam Pollock

    • ZepFan2 says:

      Another Pollock quote:

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

      ———————————————————————-
      Welcome to the newer NHL: The National Headshot League.

  2. Dust says:

    IF…and thats a big IF, Markov comes back in early feb and plays well with no setbacks to the trade deadline. Should the habs try and trade him or keep him. I say keep him. Trade kaberle for a pick, if you can

  3. ABHabsfan says:

    Just saw the 1st intermission of Hawks/Wings and of course the topic turns to Days of Our Habs. I thought Macguire would have something to say but instead it’s Milbury going on about how PG has mismanaged and made a hash of the whole situation. Really Mike? Does NBC really think this fool is the best guy to comment on this?
    Yashin? Luongo? Chara? McCabe? Berard? Yah Milbury, you know a fiasco when you see one

    • DorvalTony says:

      But he’s good with a shoe!

      ——————————————————————
      ”First of all, you have to have continuity if you are to have success,” Pollock told the New York Times. ”I think it gets the manager and the players to become more attached to each other.” – Sam Pollock

    • otter649 says:

      What was better was when PM was bragging on The Pens on how well things were looking to him but losers of 6 games in a row till last night & Milbury stepped in and made a couple of comments & McGuire was speechless with no comeback……

    • Da Hema says:

      Actually, it is hard to think of anyone more knowledgeable about being an idiot than Mike Milbury. He is uniquely qualified to provide expert insight into idiocy.

  4. 24 Cups says:

    Dust – Subban is a great talent who I hope will be a star one day. Right now, he’s a bit of a train wreck (for a variety of reasons, which is a shared responsibility between him and the team).

    There is no way he gets a Myers/Hedman type contract based on future potential. I would start by offering a two year/4M contract and not go a cent over what Price got, which was a two years/5.75M deal

    • ABHabsfan says:

      I would like to agree,but just to play the Devil’s Advocate; he still plays the most minutes on the team and plays against the opposition’s top line every game. I’m sure his agent has those facts at the top of the list. ( I am in no way saying that PK is the Devil by advocating for him)

      • 24 Cups says:

        That’s what I meant by the shared responsibility. One of the main reasons that Subban’s play is sub-par is because he has unfairly been asked to step in for Markov. The kid isn’t ready, but who would be after just two years?

    • Dust says:

      I think that would be the best kind of deal for him as well. Seems to me if he got a huge deal it would go to his head and his confidance would turn to arrogance which would be horrible for his development

  5. Dust says:

    Question for everyone here. With Subbans play this year. what do you think his contract will be next year. My geuss is 3 years 3mil per

  6. PureGuava says:

    Price is 25th in the league in save percentage. All-star worthy?

    All you Price fanatics have drank too much of the purple koolaid.

    “Oh Carey…Oh how I love thee….where can I bid on your new your new, super-cool mask?!….Gaw…”

    He’s never won a meaningful game here…

  7. naweed235 says:

    fearless prediction: Gomez scores a hat-trick tonight, knocks out Knopka and Neal with one newly improved groin swing and makes a couple of spectacular diving saves to earn the Shut out.

  8. Strabo says:

    I just watched Howard misplay the puck, and he deflected it right to Shaw of the Blackhawks for an empty net. Much like Price the other night got the bad bounce off the boards. I wonder how many Redwing fans are calling for Howards head? LMAO

    “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.” Albert Einstein

  9. montreal ace says:

    Cammy 6 million a year, secure contract and employment in the NHL. Cunny his new coach, waits for years at a crack for a NHL coaching gig, and Cammy makes him look bad, with his big mouth. Cammy had no history except for a few games with Cunny, yet from what he implied about the team, he made him look bad. I am glad they told him during the game that he was traded, I am sorry they told him to which team.

  10. CF says:

    Hey PG, pick up Colton Gillies off waivers.
    He can take Darche’s spot on the fourth line, except he can hit.
    6’4″, 210 lbs.
    A little like Pouliot, but look at Benny now.
    When healthy, next year, White Gillies and a re-signed Moen for the fourth line.
    Your welcome.

  11. badbalance says:

    Are we going to give Price a 10 year 5 mill contract at the end of the season, or are we going to go another 1-2 years again, like we always like to give to franchise players…

  12. Phil C says:

    @ Rad. I like it. Peckham is an RFA so they should not have to over-pay for him. I see him fitting in as a 5-6 guy, at least at first.

    But I still think they need a 1-2 D-man as the Habs have never really replaced Hamrlik. Any UFA defensemen you like? Suter is the only obvious star.

    • Rad says:

      Do you not think Markov is coming back as # 1?

      • Phil C says:

        I do (at least I hope), but I think they still need one more top tier d-man, a proven NHLer. Emelin might be ready next year for more minutes, but he is still learning the NHL, so it would be risky to pencil him in at this point. Diaz would look better in the third pairing although he is hanging in there this year playing top 4 minutes. I hope Kaberle goes at the deadline for something. So next year I see Markov-??, Gorges-Subban, Emelin-Diaz. I really like Peckam, but I’m not sure he is ready for top 4 minutes. Ideally a right-shooting defensemen.

  13. DorvalTony says:

    Joyce talks about the 1970 draft and missing Gil Perreault as a milestone. In 1969 Pollack drafted Houle and Tardif 1st and 2nd and in 1971 he drafted Guy Lafleur 1st after swindling the Seals then Chuck Arnason 7th Muzz Wilson 11th and Larry Robinson 20th. The decline of the franchise didn’t start ’til Dryden and Pollack retired in 1979.

    Liam McGuire and others have debunked the French Canadian pick myth before btw.

    ——————————–
    “Okay, everybody take a Valium.”

  14. habs001 says:

    Are any of this years draft pick projected for immediate impact or are they all basically 2-3 years away from significant contribution?

    Right now the habs have scoring issues(what else is new)..we have very few forwards that before a game you can say he has a good chance of scoring tonight..with no pp we are basically 0-2 goals a game team majority of the time..right now 21 teams have scored more goals than we have and we are tied with 3 others…

    • LA Loyalist says:

      These days I think scoring is more dependent on team work than individual talent (though certainly you need finishing). We have been unable to manufacture goals in the low slot and win enough scrums in the corners and retrieve the puck through a vigorous forecheck because overall we were too small and soft. If we didn’t score off a rush we were pretty much screwed. And PP problems make that all the more critical.

      If we can replace Gionta and Gomez each with a Cole/Bourque/Max Pax type, I think we will be OK. And if we do that, we can afford a small skill guy like DD because there will be real estate for him to work.

      When I frame it that way, in my head maybe we are not that far off (not that Power Forwards grow on trees the way #1 centers do…)

      • habs001 says:

        We still have to remember that maxpac has only played a combined 160 games in the nhl and he had the devastating injury and did not have eye popping scoring stats before the nhl so he has come a long way in learning to score in the nhl…hopefully he will add to our scoring and the same with eller but probably will take a couple of years…ak46 is 26 if he is going to be anything else than what we have seen so far in his career it will probably be with another team..otherwise if we keep him we will have a 20/20 producer yearly but very inconsistent from game to game…

  15. The Dude says:

    Scott Gomez,this is your time to slag the Habs organization and their players and cut them a new one ….you can do it!

  16. Rad says:

    Here’s a trade suggestion for the Great Gauthier: Theo Peckham out of Edmonton. He’s a 6-7th Defenceman for them and may be available. He is not a “skill” player, what he is is 24 years old, 6’2″, 235, and tough as nails. He doesn’t have to be told by his coach to play physical, he is one of those guys that ENJOYS hitting people. If anything, the coach has to restrain his aggression. Peckham is not technically an enforcer, but that’s the way he plays. He is a very good hitter that defends his team mates, and does not back down against anyone. Edmonton is looking for an offensive type defenceman that can also play on the power play. I believe they would have a strong interest in Yannick Weber.

  17. DorvalTony says:

    “The Canadiens will get a boost on offense, as forward Scott Gomez will return to the lineup after being on the Injured Reserve with a groin injury since November 25.” – TSN.CA

    ——————————–
    “Okay, everybody take a Valium.”

  18. t1tan5 says:

    Here’s a theory: PG is set on acquiring players that play well against us. First it was Cole and now, upon watching his highlight videos, Bourque as well. He seems to score every time he plays us. The theory worked for Cole. Let’s hope it does for Bourque as well.

  19. derfab says:

    Subban should be told to focus more on hitting. The check on Krejci was clean and effective as is Subban when physical. The offence will come as a result. Someone should have his back when the goons try to punish him. This is the only way to compete with the big teams. Bourque will help but we need at least 2 more players with the necessary size and nastiness to neutralize the likes of Lucic, Thornton, Horton, Chara… It would also not be totally unjust if we took a few cheapshots at some of these guys, including Marchand, who have never hesitated to do likewise.

  20. SmartDog says:

    Shout-out to Phil C. Good rebuttal to my post about why I don’t like the trade.

    And to be clear, the trade might work out… I realize that. It MIGHT be a great thing. But what bothers me is that there were better ways to clear cap space. And if Cami floats half the year and then turns on the jets full blast in the playoffs I’m okay with that. Other guys are moderately-to-seriously useless in BOTH seasons. Everyone talks about Halak’s playoff performance, but Cami’s was equally spectacular. And ironically, was equally important in helping Martin and Gauthier keep their jobs.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • DorvalTony says:

      Bourque has 67 goals to Cammy’s 54 the last two years.

      ——————————–
      “Okay, everybody take a Valium.”

    • Phil C says:

      I get what you are saying and it is valid. Proven playoff performers are hard to come by, especially goal scorers, so the return better be good for such a valuable asset. I have not seen enough of Bourque to judge him or the trade yet, maybe you have. If he plays to his potential, you might feel better about the trade. On the other hand, I know a lot of Calgary fans are frustrated by him because he has so much potential, but does not always show it. If he turns out to be a bust, you won’t be alone in missing what Cammalleri can do.

      Cammy was a risk-reward type player and a PP specialist. Maybe if Montreal’s PP was not so bad, we would not be having this conversation!

      • Timo says:

        Cammy had ONE good playoffs in his career – hard to call it “proven”. I doubt Cammilleri will come back to scoring 40 goals for Calgary. Flames seem to be just as crappy as Habs so I don’t see anyone creating space and time for Cammalleri to do his patented one knee shot, and that all that he seems to know how to do.

        He was a problem here and with his attitude he will not be a solution anywhere else.

        • LA Loyalist says:

          If you take out the one playoff run Bourque has scored equal or better to Cammi and, having reviewed his videos again, has a quality that we need… not sure that I can even describe it (because as a Habs fan it is seen about as often as a white polar bear in a snow storm)…. what the heck is the word for it…. ahhhhh….

          ….trucelence.

          Bourque has trucelence. What was PG thinking?

        • Phil C says:

          He had 10 points last year in 7 games as well, including 5 powerplay points, against the big, bad Bruins. He was well on his way to repeating his performance. To me, this is evidence that 2010 was no fluke.

          I agree that Cammalleri does not create offense on his own, he needs creative linemates who can feed him nice passes and to convert on his passes, especially on the PP. If he plays with Iginla, I think he will produce. But there is talk in Calgary that the 1st line is too good right now to break up, so he will end up on the 2nd line. If he does, I think we will see more of what we saw in Montreal.

        • habsfan0 says:

          While it appears that Cammalleri is on the downhill side of his career at 30, I’m of the opinion that he’s playing with an undisclosed injury..just like Subban is. Might have something to do with that deep skate cut he suffered in 2nd game of season at Winnipeg.

  21. LL says:

    A trade, like a lottery ticket buys you hope. Every time a new player arrives, we think, YESSS he’s going to save our team. Selective amnesia also sets in, and we forget how crap the player has been of late. Or, the opposite, the expectations are so great, no matter what the player does, he’s just not good enough.

    A hero’s welcome, and then the door slammed in your face.

    Calgary, right now, is in the honeymoon phase. They only remember the 39 goal guy, and Cammy is going to catapult them straight into the playoffs – plan the parade.

    We are also guilty of this phenomenon. Now we expect Bourque to park his butt by the opponents’ net, and score bunches of goals, while single handedly beating off both Chara and Lucic at the same time – plan the parade.

    I still believe this was a great deal for our team, and my sympathies go out to Calgary for inheriting that monster contract, even if Cammy does well in Calgary. As long as his teammates are willing to do all the work, he’ll be fine.

    • citizenSanto says:

      hey doubleL

      I think you’re right on the money here.
      While i am hoping this recent trade is a step in the right direction, I think we should all temper our expectations for this year, and possibly next as well.

      I think what bothers me most is the fact that the team is increasingly becoming less Italian.
      I know, the language issue has been discussed to death on HIO of late. However, Im envious of the Tortarella’s and Chiarelli’s of the league and what they bring to their respective clubs. Should we get the best coach available? certainly. Yet, it would be nice if he could speak a few words of Italian. Trading Cammi is a great disservice to Montreal’s proud Italian community.
      Ribiero, Dagostini, now Cammi… it just makes me shake my fist and say minchia!

      —————————————
      Hope has two beautiful daughters. Their names are anger and courage; anger at the way things are, and courage to see that they do not remain the way they are.
      – Augustine of Hippo

    • CanadienBoy says:

      Like the trade ,was a little worry about Ramo who play for Feaster before but read somewhere that is not as good this year but still a good prospect ,hopefully Kaberle get traded at the dead line for more cap relive and a pick or prospect

    • habsolutely416 says:

      i have read some posts on some calgary flames threads, not all fans are happy about cammy going back there lol. especially with his cap hit.

      ill be in the slot ;)

  22. HabFab says:

    Practice Update

    PK was not suspended by NHL for hit.
    Gomez is back tonight. Playing LW with Pleks it appears.
    Bourque worked out with team today.

  23. The Jackal says:

    Someone should just slip some bacon in the Goat’s grilled veggie sandwich for lunch today, see how he likes improvised moves.

  24. Ian Cobb says:

    AJ—Bill 101 not only cost the French speaking kids from learning English at a young age, It has cost the province of Quebec billions of investment dollars from all secters of the economy. North America does business in English. Quebec has lost the Nordics, the Expos and any chance to get a North American sports franchise in any sport. English TV contracts pay the different league bills. Just saying!

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      Getting a North American sports franchise is not everyone’s ultimate cultural aspiration.


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

      • Ian Cobb says:

        True that HFS72, but it costs the PQ in all its economy. Sad that these two great cultures can not find the middle ground.

        • cuzzie says:

          I find the debate about language silly. I’m trilingual and can understand two other. People should embrace the chance and broaden their knowledge and stop having this animosity. Knowledge is King, the more I know the more confident I am.

          Mr. Bad Example!

    • HardHabits says:

      C’mon Ian. Even Stephane Dion called Bill 101 a great Canadian law. There is no doubt that Bill 101 has hurt Quebec’s economy but as an Anglo Quebecker who has chosen to remain in Quebec I have accepted it as law. Maybe because I am fluently bilingual and can read and understand spoken French extremely well. I am still working on the speaking and writing part and I am confident in short time I will be at a level in French that approaches my mastery of English.

      I lived through one of the worst economic times of this province and have watched it rebound. Like the Habs, Quebec needs to rebuild and look towards the future. All that means is better business opportunities looking forward.

      Let’s please stop bashing Quebec. It’s one Province in Canada that is French. It’s a good thing for the character of the country to accept it and see the added value it brings. We’ll all be richer that way.

      • Chris says:

        Well, to be fair, New Brunswick is the only province that is constitutionally bilingual. :)

      • Ian Cobb says:

        There a large volumes of French speaking people in most provinces and the US. They are respected for their difference. Officially the province of NB is bilingual. So should be the province of Quebec.

        • HardHabits says:

          Good for New Brunswick but I disagree. Quebec is officially French as it should be. English will always exist in Quebec even given this fact. If Quebec was bilingual French would almost instantaneously become secondary and would run the risk of becoming endangered if not obsolete.

          Think of French as an endangered species and a heritage site all wrapped up into one entity. It’s worth propping up for as long as we can. Making Quebec officially bilingual would see extinction and mortar turned to sand, as we witness right before our very eyes the death of the last of its species and the crumbling of a monument from our collective past.

          • Chris says:

            Yet French continues to prosper in New Brunswick, in northern Ontario and in Metis communities across the Prairies. I think you place too little faith in people’s willingness to maintain their cultural identity.

            Jewish and Italian communities are particularly adept throughout North America (and notably in Montreal!) at preserving their language. I’m writing this post about a 10 minute drive from Mennonite country where people have preserved their culture and language despite being an island in a sea of English and modern technology.

          • HardHabits says:

            As will English in Quebec.

            It doesn’t change that Quebec is officially a French province not a bilingual one. I doubt that will change in the near future nor should it IMO.

            BTW English is thriving in Montreal. As well, one of the benefits of Bill 101 is that the quality of French has improved in Quebec, which is a good thing.

            Forget about official bilingualism for Quebec, or Montreal for that matter. It isn’t going to happen. Not in our lifetimes.

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        Your last para, HH: totally agree.
        Cheers

    • le_vrai_jacques says:

      Both my kids went to primaire and secondaire in French. Then they did cégep at Dawson in English. Now they are at Condordia. They’re perfectly bilingual now. But I guess that’s a flaw that will haunt them for a long time.

  25. I think this picture of Cammy, taken right after he was told he was traded, shows he was happy to be leaving Montreal: http://wp.me/p1UX3s-yS

  26. kempie says:

    Carcillo out for the season. The league loses another great.

    http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=385004

  27. HardHabits says:

    Great article on Sportsnet.ca Gare Joyce. Required reading for all Habs fans IMO.

    The problem with the team is that it refuses to accept or admit that it is not the team it purports to be. The history, the glory of days past, the alumni. It’s all marketing. A polished turd my look shiny but it’s still a lump of crap.

    Take a look at the Sabres and take a look at the Senators. One team chose to make a splash in free agency and the other chose to sell and rebuild (my definition of Tank™). Which team is better today and looking forward.

    The defence rests.

    • Habmyster says:

      It is time to restructure the Mtl management from top to bottom.They must define what this team will be going forward.They must develop a plan & stick to it.This Organization has lost its way.Celebrating the past is great but do not depend on the mystic of our past to get it done.Those days are gone.This is the 21st century not the 50s & 60s.We must be progressive in our thinking.Until that is done we will keep spinning our wheels.

  28. Chris says:

    The past couple of weeks have been wild…there is so much over-reaction from fans and media pundits as calls for yet another self-destructive “house cleaning” mount. Focus on the positive…

    The team drafts reasonably well:

    From 2003-2007, Trevor Timmins and the scouting department found Andrei Kostitsyn, Maxim Lapierre, Ryan O’Byrne, Jaroslav Halak, Kyle Chipchura, Alexei Emelin, Mikhail Grabovski, Mark Streit, Carey Price, Guillaume Latendresse, Sergei Kostitsyn, Matt D’Agostini, Ryan White, Ryan McDonagh, Max Pacioretty, P.K. Subban and Yannick Weber.

    That is 17 NHL regulars in 5 draft years. So clearly the problem is not that the Habs are poor at drafting or don’t see the value in the draft, it is that there is a breakdown in keeping those players. Of that list, only 7 remain with the team.

    If you want your team to tank, you actually need them to suck at drafting. Only the truly awful teams can continue to plummet down the standings while drafting in the top 10 so that they can end up with top players. And even then, it is often a case of the blind squirrel finding a nut.

    Chicago drafted Mark Bell 8th overall in 1998. In 1999, they drafted Steve McCarthy 23rd overall. Then they drafted Mikhail Yakubov 10th overall and Pavel Vorobiev 11th overall in 2000. Then came Tuomo Ruuttu at 9th overall and Adam Munro at 29th overall in 2001. So 4 drafts with 4 picks out of 6 in the top 11 overall…there is no way that team should have been still as bad as they were. They finally got it right by picking Brent Seabrook 14th overall in 2003.

    Yet they continued to suck enough to draft Cam Barker 3rd overall in 2004 and Jack Skille 7th overall in 2005. And even STILL, they couldn’t pull out of their suckitude enough to avoid getting the 3rd overall pick in 2006 (Jonathan Toews) and the 1st overall pick in 2007 (2007). So a full decade of draft suckitude to finally get the impact players that were required to turn the franchise around. And what happened, with that bevy of great young talents? Yes, they won a Stanley Cup (aided by an influx of UFA’s) and then almost fell out of the playoffs when they had to dump some of their key players (Campbell, Huet, Niemi, Versteeg) due to the salary cap and suffered some injuries.

    Similarly, Pittsburgh had to go bankrupt and have FIVE straight miserable seasons, drafting 5th (Whitney), 1st (Fleury), 2nd (Malkin), 1st (Crosby) and 2nd (Staal) to buld their team. And lookie…they ran into some injuries to their top player and are also on the verge of falling out of the playoffs this year, just like Montreal.

    Washington did it slightly differently. They only sucked for 3 seasons, but amassed 11 1st round picks over 5 drafts (2002-2006). Their buckshot strategy worked, as they drafted some solid NHL talent to compliment the two superstar calibre players they got by tanking (Ovechkin, Backstrom). Not that it is helping much.

    Or Tampa Bay…a team with Lecavalier (in his prime), St. Louis, Richards, Prospal and Boyle can manage to suck enough to land the 1st overall pick? Then, after drafting Stamkos, they suck enough to land Viktor Hedman to boot? Also not in the playoffs this season, because they still need goaltending and defence.

    “But the Habs never draft guys with size!”

    What’s funny about this frequent lament is that those guys with size are more often than not the “busts”. Consider the 1st and 2nd round picks from 2000-2006 that are not regulars in the NHL today:

    David Fischer (1st round, 2006) – 6’3″, 190 pounds
    Ben Maxwell (2nd round, 2006) – 6’1″, 195 pounds
    Mathieu Carle (2nd round, 2006) – 6’0″, 205 pounds
    Cory Urquhart (2nd round, 2003) – 6’3″, 196 pounds
    Tomas Linhart (2nd round, 2002) – 6’2″, 220 pounds (doubt that was his draft weight)
    Alexander Perezhogin (1st round, 2001) – 6’0″, 200 pounds
    Duncan Milroy (2nd round, 2001) – 6’1″, 198 pounds
    Marcel Hossa (1st round, 2000) – 6’0″, 200 pounds

    It isn’t actually true that the Habs avoided drafting players with size. Those were unfortunately the guys that generally didn’t pan out. We’ve had a couple of doubles (Kostitsyn in 2003, Pacioretty in 2007, Higgins in 2002), but no home runs yet.

    “Oh, we don’t draft enough WHL boys with heart and grit!”

    Except in the 1990′s, when that was all Montreal drafted and paid a huge price for it. The WHL has achieved some sort of mythical status as this league that breeds stud NHL players, but the reality is that they have just as many busts as anybody else.

    This is the biggest BS line currently making the rounds. I see all the time that this year’s World Junior team lost because there weren’t enough WHL players. What a crock. They lost because Sweden and Russia were better.

    “But we only go after smurfs!”

    No, we just end up with smurfs. Big forwards or defenceman that can actually play rarely come available. When they do, it generally turns into a 30-team orgy to secure their services.

    Signing Cammalleri and Gionta and trading for Gomez might seem like a franchise penchant for smurfs, but the reality is that they were the guys who were available. You can’t sign Getzlaf or Staal or Ovechkin or Kovalchuk or Nash because they are already playing elsewhere. Other guys weren’t interested in playing here, for a variety of reasons. The Habs tried hard for Ryan Smyth, but were rebuffed. Ditto for Marian Hossa. Gionta was Plan B behind Kovalev.

    It would be nearly impossible for a team of Montreal’s financial capabilities to ever finish low enough to secure the a top 5 pick. Look who sit at the bottom of the standings most years…the teams that spend to the cap floor.

    The media, fans, and players would all take a VERY dim view of the Habs, one of the three wealthiest teams in the league by a country mile, spending to the floor. And I strongly suspect the NHL would be asking questions, too.

    We passed on people like Milan Lucic and David Backes, true. But then again, so did the teams that ultimately drafted them. Lucic was coming off a 9 goal, 19 point season in the WHL when drafted by the Bruins behind that paragon of grit Phil Kessel and the highly desirable Yuri Alexandrov. Similarly, Backes was drafted 62nd overall after a strong season in the USHL, a league that frequently is lampooned by posters here.

    The upshot…

    Look…the team stinks this year. It happens. And I don’t deny that the team should seriously consider trying to acquire more size, as they have been too small for too long.

    But people make it out like we are the only team that goes through this type of funk. Tampa Bay, Washington and Pittsburgh are all going through similar funks right now due to injuries and slumps.

    Philadelphia went from 101 points in 2005-06 to 56 points in 2006-07 to 95 points in 2007-08.

    Anaheim has some big, skilled forwards and some good puck-moving defencemen and a historically good goalie, but due to injuries and poor form by Hiller they are fighting to win the Nail Yakupov sweepstakes.

    When people talk about wholesale changes, they should be careful what they wish for. There is something to be said for stability. Changes are obviously required, but those changes don’t have to be across the board. Don’t throw out the babies with the bath-water. Identify the players worth keeping (the under-30′s that are still learning the ropes, developing their talent and trying to learn consistency in a long, tough season) and for all that is holy make sure that you maintain a strong leadership core, which I think can be preserved with Gorges/Plekanec/Cole/Gionta.

    The one area where I do agree with our more vocal pessimists is that the Habs need to be more active on the trade front. I thought the Carter and Richards deals this summer were brilliant…if you’ve ridden a player as far as you think you can, get a return before you lose them for nothing. The Flyers are doing better than I thought, but those deals set them up for a long time at forward as Voracek, Schenn, Simmonds and Couturier are all great young forwards.

    I don’t think you trade everybody. That is classless. But identify your one or two sacred cows amongst the veterans to preserve the leadership of the team and maximize the return on the rest.

    • Nakasuga says:

      Well written! Stuff happens, I am a faithful fan!

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Good Synopsis Chris. Fuel for the Tank to think about.

    • HardHabits says:

      I have always maintained that Timmins’ draft record has been solid. I have also noted that it is the returns on trade or retention that lacks in the Habs record. Not Timmin’s fault but the GM at the time.

      I have also acknowledged that late round picks are necessary as well as high ones.

      I used to look at Pittsburgh, Washington and Chicago as models to pursue but have now started leaning towards the Boston and Philadelphia approach. Both those teams have finished in the bottom 5 in the past decade.

      My lament with the Habs is how they trade. They opt for rentals losing 1st and 2nd round picks without ever signing the players they gave up draft choices for. I can only remember one time as a Habs fan that they traded a veteran for a 1st round pick and a prospect.

      As well, I immediately lauded the trades of Carter and Richards however also cleary stated way back when that the Bryzgalov signing was a serious head scratcher.

      BTW. The Habs are spending to the cap limit and are in the dregs of the standings. You can’t blame injuries either. Too much money is tied up in either fragile, small, soft or old.

      Today’s game is a young man’s game. The Habs brass are too old school to realize this.

      • Chris says:

        I agree with much of what you say in this post. Boston and Philly both finished bottom 5 in the past decade. In Philly’s case, that bottom 5 placement really hasn’t yielded the desired result: I like van Riemsdyk, but he’s not really been a huge impact on their success.

        Boston also won the Stanley Cup last season largely without the benefit of Tyler Seguin playing like a top-5 pick. This season is a different story.

        Like you, I don’t like rentals unless you are going for it. Trades in 2007-08 were justified as the Habs had as good a chance as anybody. I think it is fair to say moves in summer and fall of 2008 geared towards building on the success of that team were fair, given that it was reasonable to expect that a resonably young team could continue to improve. Instead, the wheels fell off, we discarded everybody and taxed the system to field a competitive team.

    • ZepFan2 says:

      Great post, Chris.

      +10

      ———————————————————————-
      Welcome to the newer NHL: The National Headshot League.

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      This may be the best post ever written on this site, and I go back a long way. It deserves to be a featured article. Do it Boone.

    • Landof10000lakesHab says:

      Excellent post as always.

    • jmsheehy19 says:

      Very seriously, one of the best posts I’ve ever read on here. A realistic look at the situation with actual facts to support your argument. I’ve grown very weary of the opinions-stated-as-facts posts that think using ALLCAPS ALL THE TIME or “nuff’ said” is an equivalent to evidence.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Chris, thanks for taking the time to write this. Excellent post and its dead on.

    • Kelvinator30 says:

      That’s a good post, but one nit

      The players you mentioned as big players drafted by Montreal, to me are not big players.

      I consider a big player is 6’4″ tall, somewhere in the neighborhood of 220 pounds (even on draft day) and not afraid to throw it around. We just haven’t recently drafted anyone of that description that I can recall.

      I’m not saying avoid small players, just lets try a late round pick or two on a big angry dude, huh? Or if we can’t do that, at least invite someone like that to camp…there’s got to be some big kid in the province of Quebec who didn’t get drafted, but can play a little and would love to go to war for the Canadiens.

      Look, losing sucks, but it happens. Getting pushed around should never happen, though.

      • Chris says:

        Finding an 18 year old hockey player that is already 6’4″ and in the neighbourhood of 220 pounds on draft day that is also good enough to be drafted in the 1st or 2nd rounds is REALLY long odds.

        When you draft these kids, you are banking on not just their skill development, but also their physical development.

        As proof, here are the sizes of the top-ranked North American players in the influential 2003 NHL draft:

        1. Eric Staal (6’3″, 182 pounds) (now 6’4″, 205 pounds)
        2. Dustin Brown (6’0″, 195 pounds) (now 6’0″, 204 pounds)
        3. Thomas Vanek (6’2″, 208 pounds) (now 6’2″, 205 pounds)
        4. Nathan Horton (6’2″, 201 pounds) (now 6’2″, 229 pounds)
        5. Ryan Getzlaf (6’2.5″, 195 pounds) (now 6’4″, 221 pounds)
        6. Braydon Coburn (6’5″, 205 pounds) (now 6’5″, 220 pounds)
        7. Ryan Suter (6’1″, 183 pounds) (now 6’1″, 198 pounds)
        8. Dion Phaneuf (6’2″, 205 pounds) (now 6’3″, 214 pounds)
        9. Zach Parise (5’11″, 186 pounds) (now 5’11″, 195 pounds)
        10. Dan Fritsche (6’1″, 198 pounds)
        11. Steve Bernier (6’2.5″, 233 pounds) (now 6’3″, 220 pounds)
        12. Ryan Stone (6’1″, 199 pounds) (now 6’2″, 207 pounds)
        13. Marc-Antoine Pouliot (6’1″, 188 pounds) (now 6’2″, 203 pounds)
        14. Patrick O’Sullivan (5’11″, 190 pounds) (now 5’11″, 189 pounds)
        15. Eric Fehr (6’3″, 187 pounds) (now 6’4″, 212 pounds)
        16. Ryan Kesler (6’1.5″, 195 pounds) (now 6’2″, 202 pounds)
        17. Mark Stuart (6’1″, 209 pounds) (now 6’2″, 213 pounds)
        18. Kevin Klein (6’1″, 187 pounds) (now 6’1″, 200 pounds)
        19. Anthony Stewart (6’1.5″, 239 pounds) (now 6’3″, 230 pounds)
        20. Hugh Jessiman (6’4″, 200 pounds) (now 6’6″, 221 pounds)

        In case you are interested, Andrei Kostitsyn was the 3rd ranked European skater (behind Nikolai Zherdev and Milan Michalek) and was listed as 6’0″ and 189 pounds. He now plays at 6’0″ and 214 pounds, 25 pounds heavier than his draft weight. I think he would be better served by dropping down to 200-205 lbs. but I suspect the organization really pushed him to bulk up to play a “power forward” game. That the single most common trait listed for him in his draft rankings was “explosive skater”, I have to wonder how much adding 5% mass to his frame has affected his speed and acceleration, critical components for any successful offensive player.

        Basically, the only guys who were up over 220 pounds out of the top 20 ranked players in a very deep draft were Steve Bernier and Anthony Stewart. Both guys have dropped their weight and neither really panned out in the NHL.

        Other interesting examples are:

        Alexander Ovechkin – 6’2″, 205 lbs. –> 6’3″, 230 lbs.
        Ilya Kovalchuk – 6’2″, 207 lbs. –> 6’3″, 230 lbs.
        Mikko Koivu – 6’2″, 181 lbs. –> 6’2″, 200 lbs.
        Jay Bouwmeester – 6’4″, 208 lbs. –> 6’4″, 212 lbs.

        One of the more striking weight gains was Alex Kovalev. I think he was something like 180 lbs. when drafted in the early 1990′s, and he was playing up near 225 lbs. when he was with the Habs.

      • Mike D says:

        We haven’t recently drafted any big players?

        D Jarred Tinordi; drafted 1st round, 22nd overall by the Montreal Canadiens in 2010. Height 6’7″. Weight approx 220 pounds with plenty of room/time to fill out.

        Player description: Physical defensive defenseman. Also, a big, ornery son of a bitch. Son of former NHLer Mark Tinordi; also a big ornery son of a bitch.

        - Honestly yours

        • Dust says:

          watched him play vs my barrie colts last weekend. plays tough, good skater for a big man. Looks huge on the ice but you can tell there is room for him to fill out. Needs to work on his first pass. Got no powerplay time. was good on the pk

        • Kelvinator30 says:

          Goodonya, I forgot about him…I was thinkin forwards :-)

          I still think though that he’s the exception rather than the rule…and that we need to see a bit more of that type of player getting drafted.

    • CanadienBoy says:

      Hey Chris good work u on fire today

    • Mike D says:

      Another great post, Chris! I hope many take the time to read it and thank you for the time and effort to put it together.

      - Honestly yours

    • JF says:

      Great post, Chris. A really strong rebuttal of the argument that we should trade just about everyone, including Price and Plekanec, in order to stockpile draft picks and start all over from scratch.

      With the right moves, the Habs could turn things around as early as next year. We have a solid core of young players in Price, Plekanec, Gorges, Subban, Pacioretty, Desharnais, Eller, Diaz, and Emelin, with a few others on the way. If we keep both Moen and Kostitsyn, we should be competitive next year, and a high draft pick in June will also help. It will be up to Gauthier or whoever takes over to deal with the Gomez contract and try and get something for our older veterans, rather than simply letting them walk as was Gainey’s modus operandi.

      Like you, I admired what Paul Holmgren did in Philly this summer (except for the Bryzgalov contract). And Brian Burke has swung some great deals for the Leafs, robbing both Calgary and Anaheim in the process. I’d like to see a bit more ruthlessness and creativity from the Habs management (although Gauthier is proving more ruthless and decisive than I had expected).

    • The Dude says:

      Not one of Timmons draft choices could punch their way outta wet no-name toilet paper…it’s not just size it’s fight!We play in the same division Boston and Philly and none of the players you mentioned from Habs draft can deal with the like’s of Chara or Lucic…but if you look at a team like The Blues ,they could! It’s not just what Timmons likes it’s what the HABS NEED AND WE NEED A BIG ,TOUGH , TALENTED ,FAST TEAM OF KNOCK YOU DOWN AND OUT TEAM PLAYERS WHO WILL WATCH EACH OTHERS BACK AND BEAT other team on the scoreboard as well. And our D is a JOKE…small defense in the NHL is just bad drafting and trading period!

  29. who cares any more says:

    … ok, c’est tout pour moi, je ne serai pas un fan des Canadiens de plus longtemps – je vais laisser cette équipe derrière, après soixante ans et plus. Si les pouvoirs en place ne peut pas reconnaître l’importance de «l’équipe» au-dessus des petitesses de la «langue» et faire ce qu’il faut s’élever au-dessus de ces questions non-hockey et de mettre une vraie équipe en place, pourquoi devrais-je perdre mon temps et le trésor leur donner quelque chose de moi-même?

    … il fut un temps où la langue parlée par tous les joueurs des Canadiens de Montréal, les entraîneurs, ou d’autres employés était simplement accessoire. Les choses ont changé à 180 degrés, et maintenant c’est la qualité de l’effort qui est accessoire, et la langue elle-même est maintenant le numéro un facette de l’équipe. C’est une honte!

    … je suis quelque peu bilingue moi, bien que je ne peux pas tenir une conversation avec quelqu’un dont la langue première est le français. Mais peu importe, si M. Gauthier appelle pour me demander de prendre sur l’affectation comme entraîneur-chef, je vais devoir refuser poliment.

    … enfin, j’ai toujours aimé la mousse Molson, malgré le fait que les propriétaires eux-mêmes ont obtenu dans le lit avec le diable (Anton Coors). Mais à partir de maintenant, je crains que «canadienne» laissera un goût amer dans ma bouche.

    définition de la folie: continuer à faire la même chose en espérant un résultat différent

  30. LA Loyalist says:

    Did any of you guys previously hear this theory?

    “There was a theory being bandied about in the summer of 2009 to the effect that Gainey targeted Cammalleri as his prize UFA acquisition. But Cammalleri wouldn’t come to Montreal to be centred by Saku Koivu.

    So the Canadiens traded for Scott Gomez.”

    Somewhere Teemu Selanne is laughing his head off.

    • HabFab says:

      It would have been tampering to speak with Cammy or his agent prior to July 1st… so another “urban legend” to me.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      I heard that LA. Who really knows if that’s true. All I know is Cammy had no ability or at times interest in creating free space alone. For his sake I hope its more attitude as opposed to decreasing skill. In today’s NHL size does matter and I think the Habs management team is going to retook this team. Gonna be fun to watch.

      • LA Loyalist says:

        Another question for the stats geeks – you know how they show on a graphic of the ice where shots are taken from? Is there a known statistic showing where goals are scored from by team?

        For example, a top team might score 50% of its goals from the low slot and a bad team 10% (of course the sample size has to be large enough). To me this would be a clear indicator of the type of players and system needed to score more goals.

        Any stats geeks out there familiar with this? Or am I imagining things?

  31. Chris says:

    HH: “Your” tanking philosophy is hardly novel, but I do give you credit for trying to obtain credit as its great defender.

    However, I do have to call you out when you use absolutely non-sensical arguments to support your case. Such as the case of claiming in the other thread that the Buffalo Sabres “are exactly the type of team you don’t want to build. High priced and free agent heavy. They suck too. A carbon copy of Gainey’s Habs.”

    Let’s just use our BS-meter on that statement. Here are the Buffalo Sabres regulars:

    Sabres draft picks
    Ryan Miller (138th overall, 1999)
    Paul Gaustad (220th overall, 2000)
    Jason Pominville (55th overall, 2001)
    Derek Roy (32nd overall, 2001)
    Thomas Vanek (5th overall, 2003)
    Drew Stafford (13th overall, 2004)
    Andrej Sekera (71st overall, 2004)
    Patrick Kaleta (176th overall, 2004)
    Marc-Andre Gragnani (87th overall, 2005)
    Nathan Gerbe (142nd overall, 2005)
    Jhonas Enroth (46th overall 2006)
    Tyler Myers (12th overall, 2008)
    Luke Adam (44th overall, 2008)
    Tyler Ennis (26th overall, 2008)
    Brayden McNabb (66th overall, 2009)

    Sabres, via trades
    Brad Boyes (Dennis Wideman – 241st overall, 2002)
    Jochen Hecht (two 2nd round picks in 2002)
    Robyn Regehr + Ales Kotalik + 2nd round pick (Chris Butler – 96th overall, 2005 and Paul Byron – 179th overall, 2007)

    Sabres UFA’s
    Ville Leino (6 years, $27 M)
    Jordan Leopold (3 years, $9 M)
    Christian Ehrhoff (10 years, $40 M)

    So that team has 3 UFA’s, one of whom you could consider overpaid (Leino).

    BS-meter says: “Full of it!”.

    You resort to making stuff up completely to try to support your point. I’m not disputing that both Pittsburgh and Chicago won Stanley Cups by “tanking” (although Chicago also had high-priced UFA’s in Marian Hossa, Brian Campbell, Cristobal Huet, John Madden, Tomas Kopecky as well as undrafted free agent goaltender Antti Niemi). But they are really the only successful teams that cleaned house, and that was fueled by financial issues.

    Detroit has relied heavily on free agency and trades to sustain their run at the top. Boston’s Stanley Cup was completed not just via the draft, where the Bruins have been very good at identifying talent, but also by signing UFA’s Tim Thomas in 2005, Zdeno Chara in 2006, Shawn Thornton in 2007, and Blake Wheeler and Michael Ryder in 2008.

    The Bruins were also very active on the trade front, picking up:

    Chris Kelly (2nd round pick)
    Rich Peverley and Boris Valabik (for Blake Wheeler and former 1st round pick Mark Stuart)
    Tomas Kaberle (in exchange for former 1st round pick Joe Colborne and a 2nd round pick)
    Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell (in exchange for Dennis Wideman, a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick)
    Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton (in exchange for former top-5 pick Phil Kessel)
    Daniel Paille (for 3rd and 4th round picks)
    Tuukka Rask ( in exchange for Andrew Raycroft)

    The tank philosophy is the domain of desperate teams and simple thinking. Stanley Cup winning teams are built by astute trades, key free agent signings, and a whole lot of luck (avoid slumps, stay injury-free, avoid nemesis teams).

    • Phil C says:

      Couldn’t agree more. You don’t HAVE to tank (ie get lottery picks for a few years) to win the Cup. But you always have to draft well, keep your draft picks, and manage assets well via trades and free agency. This is consistent among all Cup teams. For every Chicago and Pittsburgh, there are more teams that have failed despite consistently drafting high (Columbus, Florida, Islanders, Oilers). It is never acceptable to allow a losing atmosphere in the clubhouse or throughout the organization. With a room full of 20-something millionaires, that dressing-room could turn into a country club over night; the Europeans may find that going back home in April instead of June is actually kind of nice. Once a losing culture sets in, it’s like a cancer.

      Do not go gentle into that good night.
      Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    • HardHabits says:

      Nice beat down. Coming from you though it almost feels good. I’ll wear today’s black eye with pride.

      When Tanking™ first dawned on me as a strategy it was a knee-jerk reflex to seeing gains that Pittsburgh, Washington and Chicago made. Since then I have made a shift towards seeing that Boston and Philadelphia as teams to emulate. There is still a lot to be said about knowing when to throw the towel in on a season. Both Boston and Philly have done this.

      Boston and Philadelphia have made great trades because they had assets to trade. Those assets came about via the draft for the most part. The big signings were Chara and Pronger. Another trend to emulate IMO.

      Buffalo I will admit does have a nice proportion of players that were drafted and developed in house, however I chose them because they made a splash this summer and are now sinking like a rock rather than skipping along the surface. Ottawa is doing it the Philly way. I’d like to see the Habs do that.

      What if Price or Subban get sick offer sheets? What then? Do the Habs match them or take the picks. I know what I’d do!

  32. BeachHabFan says:

    in regards to ‘tanking’ – i’ve lived in TO since 94. Living with wife/friends/neighbors/city in constant depression over the state of their team would convince anyone that a rebuild or tanking is nothing to look forward to. Draft picks are no guarantee of greatness (see Islanders, NY or Oilers, Edmonton) and the process can be long and very unsatisfying. I am not having any fun watching the habs this year and i think the cammy trade (despite being pulled off by gauthier) is a step in the right direction, but until you’ve experienced years of failure and playoff-free hockey, be careful what you wish for.

    If the habs are way out of playoff race (and if they lose both games in regulation this weekend, they will be) then Goat/GM to be named later should start unloading those contracts; but i hope they stay in the race because not having playoff hockey is not worth it

    • LA Loyalist says:

      Say we were to “Tanque ™” which I take to mean unloading vets and accumulating picks…

      Do you trust the GM who’s team is tanquing ™ to do the rebuild?

      By getting Cole, Wiz and now Bourque I think PG gets it – that we need to be able to score dirty goals and have a killer PP – but he has flubbed other moves.

      Or do we send him to the Guillotine and give someone a clean piece of paper?

      The recipe for disaster is having PG try to make the playoffs, get fired, and then we’ve missed the trade deadline.

      As Shakespeare said (and I’m certainly misquoting) “If it must be done, let it be done quickly.”

      I am personally on the fence. I like the Bourque move and the Cole move and getting Emelin here a lot. If PG truly understands what it takes to win in the NHL now I can live with him. He can prove it to me by next dumping Gionta and Gomez (after Gionta is healthy, of course)

      • HabsPEI31 says:

        If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well
        It were done quickly

        Sorry, LA Loyalist, I couldn’t resist. Thanks for reminding me of my uni days, studying the play which shall not be named :)

        “Only a goalie can appreciate what a goalie goes through.” – Jacques Plante

  33. aj says:

    I’ve been reading some of the comments here, it seems that most of the Administrative problems and Bad PR going on right now with the Canadiens is through this french language issue.

    We, as English speaking Quebecers AND Canadians, are considered a minority in this province. However, our language is considered a primary source of means to do business internationally. In that respect, North American Sports Companies such as the NHL are structured in an English setting since this is the best and most accepted means of communication in a global economic world.

    Sadly, this Bill 101/ french language problem has gone through great lengths in this province that even professional sport MIGHT BE endangered here (I guess). I agree that as of this time, Pierre Gauthier and the Montreal Canadiens staff are finding it hard right now as to “where in the world would we find a bilingual GM and Coach that have NHL connections, savvy and experience.” – on quote to Mr. Ian Cobb. Practically speaking, If Randy Cunneyworth is the only solution to the Habs coaching problem (for the long term), the francophone citizens of Montreal and Quebec would have to swallow their own pride and see the big picture. After all, he willingly said he will learn the language. I don’t also believe Guy Boucher will be removed in the Lightning. This goes the same as well to a new GM if Mr. Molson is going to make an assesment review for a replacement for next season. Julien Brisebois is a longshot. However, I highly doubt if Steve Yzerman nor Lightning Owners are going to let him loose.

    Unfortunately, Quebec will find it hard as well if ever they may get their beloved Nordiques Team back. Why? because the market is primarily Anglophone. The gamble that they are choosing to go to is very impractical so much so that even if any player who’s only unilingual Anglophone who would dawn a Nordiques Jersey will find it hard to settle in with their families because of this french language issue. Also, Bill 101 I find, disallows a local quebec talent to learn the English language at a younger age. Scouts from any NHL team will also find it hard to find bilingual talent. Watching Bournival speak english in TSN this past WJC is horrible! He can’t even explain himself correctly in english (talk about french speaking journalists criticizing 2 borough councillors here for their misuse of french).

    • LA Loyalist says:

      The Nordiques coming back would solve all our problems. The journalists would all be there, being geniuses en francais, and leave Habs alone.

      It would be beautiful.

      The argument for French in sports ended the day Enzo Ferrari hired a non-Italian driver. Period.

  34. Ian Cobb says:

    Jim Edson–I do not know if I am heading to Florida this year. Andree wants to stay put this winter. But If I can fine a traveling partner, I might head to Tabago or one of the warmer Islands for a while. Florida is to cold Jan. and Feb.

  35. BeachHabFan says:

    i just saw that PK had a phone hearing w shanny for the hit portrayed above. is league now reviewing EVERY infraction? it wasn’t a major and didn’t injure the player (well, maybe his ego). Anybody know?

  36. Exit716 says:

    Hopefully Molson is currently looking at viable GM candidates so he can fire Gauthier on April 9. Gomez can be dumped to the AHL or Europe.

  37. tnerber says:

    First time posting. I think we all need to think about what we have on defense before we start thinking about becoming a good team again. Our best defenseman is PK Subban and he is 2 years away from being a #1 or #2 guy. Josh Gorges is at best a #3 but really a #4. The rest are Campoli #6 Kaberle #5 at best, Gill #6,Emelin & Diaz are both at best #6′s really though #7′s and Weber is at best a #8. You just can’t win with this defense unless you have 12 # 1 forwards which we don’t have. We must fix this problem first.

  38. price365 says:

    If they come to play tonight – they’ll have a chance to win – if they don’t – it’ll be a cake walk for ottawa.

  39. HabinBurlington says:

    Lots of talk about Bourque and his supposed attitude. Change of scenery may be just what is needed and perhaps being away from his home province will help. Lots of players have been traded over the years for perceived bad attitude and flourish in another setting. Lets see what Bourque brings to the ice before judging. If Cammy does well in Calgary good for him and the Flames, just suck the next year and make that 2nd round pick even better.

  40. 24 Cups says:

    It’s tough to find some good news today but I’m glad that a 2nd rounder came back the other way. I think 2nd round picks are important as there is a decent success rate (20-25%?).

    No team has done a better job in this regard than the Boston Bruins. Bergeron, Lucic, Krejci and Marchand (71st) are prime examples. Not to mention Boychuk and McQuaid as 2nd rounders who came via trades. They also have three 2nd rounders in their system who are decent prospects (Spooner, Knight and Khokhlachev). There’s real value to that list.

    A 2013 second rounder may not be a Hab until 2016-17, but at least it’s a concrete asset.

  41. j2w4habs25 says:

    Are the Sens in town?

    Carey Price #31

  42. Bill J says:

    This post serves as a public service announcement to those who think Gauthier will be gone by seasons end. Do you think Molson would allow PG to trade Cammy if he didn’t have faith in PG ?


    If you want to add an avatar here, read this and follow the steps

    Go Habs Go!

  43. KLear says:

    I don’t normally comment a lot but when something is absurdly wrong something must be said.

    The Montreal media purports the myth the current day Habs should be as good as the teams of the 60′s and 70′s. Yet they know it can’t be done. Montreal’s dominance was founded upon a near monopoly of new talent rising from the junior ranks. That dominance ended with the draft. That was over 40 years ago. Pollock managed to pull a rabbit out of his hat in the 70′s but even he knew the Habs ability to replenish the roster was deteriorating. And he left.

    Yet the Montreal media, and many fans, continually hold the current generation to the bar set by some of the best teams in NHL history. At least the Edmonton media recognize this fallacy. They embrace the rejuvenation of that team rather than crucify its inability to win 10 straight cups. The result is no superstar in his right mind (francophone or not) wants to come here. They know that unless they perform a miracle, under the bus they go. Arnott, Briere, LeCavalier, Roy and god knows how many others recognized it and either left or wouldn’t come. The only way to get talent here is to trade for it. And everyone wonders why BG traded for Gomez and took on that contract ? What else was he supposed to do ?

    So its time for everyone to get real. Its the new NHL folks. As BG once said it appropriately, this team has no “entitlement” to anything anymore. They will have to work for it like the rest of the NHL and the media and the fans need to get used it. They are working in the same league but yet saddled but barriers unheard of in any other NHL city: taxes, media, language, politics, and worst of all history.

    So stop crucifying every move. We were too small. PG gets cheaper, bigger, and tougher with 0 goal differential lost and he’s thrown under the bus ! Its a wonder anyone would want to play or work for this team. As a 40+ year Hab fan, I wouldn’t.

    • Ton says:

      great post, time has become critical, reading deep into the problem is a must. this thing could spiral downwards fast to the point of no return. we could lose this team and its spirit certainly has been damaged in the last few years. before players want to come and play in montreal the problem needs to be fixed and thats not just throwing big money at them.

    • mrhabby says:

      well put….

      1…we get bigger , nastier, save on cap space and peeps still shit on the team.

  44. Ton says:

    Read the article long “decline of the Canadiens”>

    I have been following the Canadiens for 40 years. Lived in the province, I am bilinqual, and still own property in the province. Part of the problem> too many misinformed Journalists who want attention as far as I am concerned. I have seen these times before> simply speaking when we consistently lose it becomes a s**t storm in Montreal. This will never change> it comes with our genetics and culture. Simply put we care! In regards to the article the writer writes> “in 1970″ we lost Gilbert Perrault. But on hold on in >in 1971 we won the cup and got Guy Lafleur! “In 1983 we traded away” Rod Langway for spare parts>well we got Rick Green and Ryan Walter and won the cup in 1986. Canadiens are one of 30 plus teams that have the same drafting privledges of other teams. We have no special status in the league and the challenges and expectations in Montreal are greater than any other market. I wish journalists including the ones that run this site keep a better perspective and not fuel a situation and run as often as they do. Readers will still post, readers will still be fans etc. Stop the trash journalism and provide better facts, better perspectives> you will still sell papers. We are in critical times for I believe the market place needs fixing before our hockey team does and perhaps at that time hockey players may want to come to Montreal to play and stay! The Canadiens are icons of hockey, no different than living day legends such as Dylan and Mccartney. The have history and large bodies of work, there will be ups and downs and rebound more often than not. No different for our beloved Habs, in today’s NHL expect on average one cup every 20 years per team!! This maybe pushing it but if we get to the semi finals and lose it doesn’t necessarily mean we are failures. Easier said and done in Montreal> lets start accepting this fact.

  45. 24 Cups says:

    An article on the trade from the viewpoint of Calgary. Add this to Hrudey’s comments and you begin to wonder. I guess we’ll know more once the honeymoon period is over.

    http://flamesnation.ca/2012/1/13/cammalleri-trade-implications

    • HabFab says:

      The Good, Bad and the Ugly…interesting method of journalism. Like the concept…as for the trade;
      Cammy maybe more talented but wasn’t doing it for us. Bourque is bigger, tougher and has scored as many goals. Both with attitudes, just different ones.
      We cleared up cap space, the extra time at that price is not a killer.
      Ramos wasn’t coming here to back up Carey, we picked up a better “maybe” in Holland.
      A 5th rounder this season for a 2nd next season, a no brainier.

      • 24 Cups says:

        I basically have said the same thing yesterday, Frank. Not to mention that we were trading from a position of weakness (which might also apply to Calgary). Once Gomez leaves, Gainey’s new five year plan will be officially dead. Strike two.

        I just hope our third strike isn’t a called one. Let’s at least take a full swing for the bleachers.

  46. SmartDog says:

    WHY THE TRADE SUCKS. REALLY.
    As reasonable as the Cami trade SEEMS… something has bothered me since it happened. I liked Cami so I thought maybe it maybe was just that. But it’s not. I like Gionta too but I’d be okay if he was traded.

    Here’s the problem with this trade: are we a better PLAYOFF team without Cami? And the answer is absolutely not. Cami performed in the second season when we needed him most. And to me, a guy who was a good, positive player for the Hab for two years, setting records for playoff goals, and then has a couple of off months around the time his first baby is born, is still a good guy, and a guy you want.

    The other thing that bothers me about this trade is that there’s no question it’s a salary dump. Which means it was made INSTEAD of dealing with Gomez. Instead of dealing with Markov. (Also instead of getting rid of (or planning to get rid of) Kaberle or Gionta… .which not all will agree, but to me would’ve been preferable.) To put it another way, clearing cap space is necessary because of ridiculous signings by PG – Markov 3 years for an aging guy who’s barely played the last two, and Gomez, who the point is more ‘why is he still here?’. While everyone says “judge Gomez for his play not his salary”, his crazy salary continues to punish this team in waves of bad decision making.

    So good-bye to the best playoff scorer this team – a team that has trouble scoring – has had in decades. And hello to another long contract on a guy with questionable work ethic. Sure I’m glad he has size. Size is Pierre Gauthier’s new mantra. Hoorray! Sorry it took him 3 years to get where every Joe on HIO has been forever, but credit where it’s due. Maybe at some point he’ll realize we need someone tougher than Moen up front too. Give it a couple of years.

    The most positive thing I can say is this deal at least MAY work out well. I can’t say it won’t. But I can say that there were so many other ways to start to restructure this team and taking away it’s best offensive playoff performer isn’t the smartest move. But this is Gauthier after all. Smart moves are not his thing. Quick fixes and bad long term contracts – that’s his territory.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • 24 Cups says:

      SD – As I’ve said before, I expect more than just a good playoff run from a guy who makes 6M and is supposed to be our gunslinger. The main priority for a bubble team is to make the playoffs. That’s where guys like Cammy and Gomez have to step up.

      As for your second point, Gomez is untradeable during the regular season. You also can’t trade a guy like Markov who hasn’t played in two and half years. And if he can play, why would you not keep him? Gionta is our captain and is out for the season. Kaberle is now with his 4th team in 14 months. It’s gonna be tough to find a taker right now.

    • Dad_Max says:

      SmartDog – Re: Saying goodbye to the best scorer of this team. Are we going to make the playoffs this year? Next year? The year after? When does Cammy’s contract expire?

      Pros of trade (probably noted more than once on here)
      - Cap space
      - Bigger winger with number consistent with Cammy over the past 2-3 years
      - A second rounder
      - A half decent prospect

      • 24 Cups says:

        Right now there is no real evidence to make one think that Holland is a decent prospect. It might be more appropriate to refer to him as a long shot. Just trying to keep the view of the trade in balance.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Top scoring RW on a first place team in the WHL, that isn’t shabby either.

          • 24 Cups says:

            Holland is twenty years old, two years removed from his draft age. That has to temper one’s thoughts. We’ll see what he does in Hamilton next year.

            The deal was basically Ramo for Holland and there’s no way that Ramo is coming back to the NHL to play back-up. That’s why he left in the first place. Picking up Ramo was a good move by Calgary.

    • mrhabby says:

      SD..
      1. So what if its a dump. my god MC has done squat this year and most of last year. Thats what teams do dump salary when there out of the playoffs. 6m for doing very little.

      2. so many people have been asking for bigger , nastier players. we land one and people are still not happy and we get cap relief.we get value back.

      3. if there is more changes iam all for it.

      • Bill J says:

        According to SF09 that prospect may have injured Galagher last night in a WHL game… :(


        If you want to add an avatar here, read this and follow the steps

        Go Habs Go!

        • HardHabits says:

          It’s not going to get easier for Gallagher once, or should I say if he makes the NHL. Holland and he weigh the same. The difference is Holland can weigh 200 lbs. once day. Gallagher will never top 185.

    • When you needed someone to perform at the right time – playoff time, Cammy came through.

      If this trade “SUCKS” in your opinion, stick around, I believe more trades will follow in the same manner

      Visit us @
      http://www.articlespluss.com

    • Bobcat Bob says:

      Bobcat Bob
      Sorry Smart Dog – you don’t know your poop on this one. This was an excellent trade for Canadiens. Cammi was a self-centred me-me-me guy — who dogged it deliberately for a trade — a real winner that (NOT).

    • Phil C says:

      I would wait until we see Bourque play before we judge this trade. I have not seen a lot of him because he is in the Western conference and I prefer sleep to hockey, but they were saying on Sportsnet yesterday that he is one of the fastest big men in the league, which reminds me of Cole. Cole has also been criticized for being inconsistent in the past, but I think everyone will agree that Cole has not been a disappointment. The Habs are keeping the “fast” and “big” camps happy, ;-) Maybe the Habs can get more consistency out of Bourque than Calgary did.

      Cammy could score goals, especially on the PP, but he was awful in his own end of the ice. I really don’t think you can win consistently with a guy like that even in the playoffs. The year he scored 13 goals, he was also -6. Only MAB was worse at -12. Last year he was -5 in the playoffs; only Gomez and Gionta were worse at -6. Basically, if he is not scoring powerplay goals, or if the other team is not taking penalties, he is not helping the team.

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      I don’t see that we’re stuck with Markov as most say. It should soon be clear whether he will make a comeback or not. If not, his salary can be replaced next year. I mean to say that if we know that he will remain on the LTIR for the year, we can afford to spend equivalent dollars elsewhere. I think the difficult thing has been this year and expecting and waiting for his arrival and not actually being able to replace his salary.

  47. gumper says:

    A lot of ink has been spilled lately calling attention to the decline of the Canadiens. Most of it makes for entertaining reading, especially for old guys like myself whose memories date back to the declining days of The Rocket and include at least two or three dynasties. But frankly, I’m growing very weary of these young pup hockey writers chronicling the decline of the once-great Montreal hockey empire. Any armchair hockey historian can trace the progress of that decline back to certain events…the failure to hang onto Scotty Bowman, the Wickenheiser draft choice, the firing of Savard, the Roy trade, and so on and so on ad nauseum. What they all neglect to mention, as they measure with angst the depths of the decline, is that since the Habs last one, there have been damn few of them, period, and that the day of the dynasty, in the cap era, is officially over. Now, I’m not writing here as an apologist for the current version of Habs management, which I agree is stumbling and bumbling around like a drunk trying to hail a cab in an earthquake. I just think we should acknowledge that it’s a very tricky thing these days to build a team which is a perennial contender. The Red Wings are likely the closest team to have accomplished it in the modern era, and they have a couple of cups to show for it. Hardly a dynasty. All I’m saying is that we should stop wringing our hands and rending our garments, moaning about the past, and find a management team with patience and the ability to take the long view of things. And from that point on, stop making the obvious, egregious mistakes which brought us to this place. No more bandaid solutions, no more panic moves designed to save someone’s job rather than improve the team. If Pierre Gauthier is not fired immediately, let it be because Mr. Molson is focusing all of his attention on making sure the next guy is the right guy. In the meantime, if Mr. Gauthier is not to be our guy moving forward he should be immediately informed that he is no longer to make trades, or finalize contracts, because he, like his head coach is only here on an interim basis. Mr. Molson, like it or not, you are in charge. Ask yourself if you are happy with your current management team. If not, get the people and the plan in place that will begin to lead us out of the swamp, beginning with next month’s trade deadline. Whether or not Cammalleri for Bourque is a good trade or not, is not really the question. The question is whether you trust your GM to consistently make good trades and positive moves. If not, the next move is yours.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Very good post Gumper.

    • JF says:

      Good post. The most critical problem facing the Habs right now is certainly to get the right management team in place. I hope Geoff Molson, who claims to be passionate about hockey but may not know all that much about it, has good hockey people he can consult. I hope at the very least that he’s keeping a tight rein on Pierre Gauthier while he’s still GM, particularly through the trade deadline period. Ideally, of course, Gauthier will be gone by then.

    • Ton says:

      good post , i was writing mine along the same lines and read yours later.

    • ont fan says:

      Klear, Ton and Gumper said it all. I wasn’t going to read anymore from this site but you guys must be as old as me.

  48. HabinBurlington says:

    Will Sunday’s game see Gomez/Plex/Bourque line?

  49. Jacques Martin must be smiling somewhere knowing that he wasn’t the problem of this 2011-2012 Montreal Canadiens.

    Visit us @
    http://www.articlespluss.com

  50. WestHab says:

    Grabed my Calgary Herald this morning from the porch. Camy on the front page showing off his new #93 Flames jersey.

    “Merci beaucoup.” Randy Cunnyworth

  51. ProHabs says:

    Nice to see PG finally putting an effort to get bigger. He needs to look around the league and add some more young, big guys to the line-up.

    2 guys that I think PG might be able to get for cheap that would be good additions to the 3rd, 4th line that would add size and would fit in with the young core we have would be:

    Patrice Cormier 21yrs, 6’2 210 pounds
    Just got send to the minors, plays with an edge and has offensive potential.

    Kyle Beach 21yrs 6’3 210 pounds
    In the minors, plays with a big edge and was a first round pick to lots of potential.

    Of course I would like to see the Habs get Getzlaf or Shea Weber but don’t think that is realistic because the Habs would have to give up half their young core for those guys.

  52. Mr_MacDougall says:

    I will start by saying there were times when Cammy was amazing as a Hab. my brother told me (not sure of his source) that Cammy told Habs management that we would not sign here with Koivu as the #1 center and is the reason for the Gomez trade. So, Gomez was Cammy’s fault.. I hate that guy now hahaha

  53. HabinBurlington says:

    Message to HH and others involved in the Fail for Nail Campaign. Apparantly a writer in the Columbus Dispatch paper have taken this campaign to a much higher level. The 2013 draft appears to have Nathan NacKinnon as the top pick and they say it’s not too early to “Stop Winnin’ for MaKinnon”.

    The insight of Columbus to get 2 seasons ahead is remarkable, HH you may need to consider the Blue Jackets as your #2 team or is that #1 :)

    Edit: Of course first Columbus would have to start winning in order to actually stop winning, minor detail.

  54. Ian Cobb says:

    Bob Gainey’s team for many reasons did not make it to the promised land the past 4 years. And so, it is now Gauthier’s turn to put together a winning group of coaches and players.

    We will just see what kind of GM he is. He now has to move out enough large contracts and older smaller players,so that he can sign the players that he feels will get us there. Some that are on the roster now, some kids on the farm and players from trades and a couple free agents.

    Gauthier will only be given a couple of years to prove he can put this train wrecked and injury prone team back together. We still have a very good group of younger players that need chemistry and positive leadership.

    • Does this mean that PG undo’s all the good that Gainey did?
      This means Carey Price is on the trading block? {Perish the Thought}
      I hope PG has something good up his sleeve otherwise he will leave behind a awful bad legacy as a Habs GM

      Visit us @
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    • habsfan0 says:

      “Gauthier will only be given a couple of years to prove he can put this train wrecked and injury prone team back together.”

      A couple of years??

      Jacques Martin:31 years NHL experience: 0 Stanley Cups.

      Pierre Gauthier:31 years NHL experience: 0 Stanley Cups.

      “What’s Past is Prologue” William Shakespeare

      In sports as in life, the cream ALWAYS rises to the top.

      Or, conversely, in this case…

    • VerdunHab says:

      First post guys! Glad to be on board after several years of reading only. Like some others I don’t mind the latest move at all. Sure it could have been handled a little better and it only gave the bashers more fuel to add to the fire but I for one most miss Cammy’s act. Living in T.O. now it can be quite nauseating to say the least listening to how the empire has crumbled and the team can never make a move that’s considered positive.

    • Mr_MacDougall says:

      Um, Ian, do you think the signings of Gionta and Cammy as well as the trade for Gomez was ALL Gainey? PG was his assistant and ready to take over, THEY made those moves, not Gainey alone.

      • Jim Edson says:

        Goatier was “Director of Pro-Scouting” and was directly responsible for supplying scouting info on all professional players signed by the Habs.

        Gainey pulled the trigger but the evaluations of all the UFA signing were authored by Goatier.

        In the words of IBM “Garbage in- Garbage out”.

        ———————————————————————-
        What does the Commissioner of the NHL do?

        In short, a league commissioner is the action man for the Board of Governors.

        They tell him what they want done and he works to make it happen through his subordinates while making sure that individual franchises play by the rules.

        ******** Translated if you haven’t won the Stanley Cup in 40 years your NHL team is becoming irrelevant in a sports mad city long behind MLB, NFL and NBA teams, you just tell the commissioner(who you gave a new contract at 7 plus million per) to make it happen and the rules are bent sufficiently to action the command.

        • Mr_MacDougall says:

          So essentially, they worked together.

          • Jim Edson says:

            His finger prints are all over a large number of dubious trades since 2003!

            ———————————————————————-
            What does the Commissioner of the NHL do?

            In short, a league commissioner is the action man for the Board of Governors.

            They tell him what they want done and he works to make it happen through his subordinates while making sure that individual franchises play by the rules.

            ******** Translated if you haven’t won the Stanley Cup in 40 years your NHL team is becoming irrelevant in a sports mad city long behind MLB, NFL and NBA teams, you just tell the commissioner(who you gave a new contract at 7 plus million per) to make it happen and the rules are bent sufficiently to action the command.

    • Jim Edson says:

      Ian,

      Sure hope that Goatier is given a month maximum.

      He is not the man looking forward!

      ———————————————————————-
      What does the Commissioner of the NHL do?

      In short, a league commissioner is the action man for the Board of Governors.

      They tell him what they want done and he works to make it happen through his subordinates while making sure that individual franchises play by the rules.

      ******** Translated if you haven’t won the Stanley Cup in 40 years your NHL team is becoming irrelevant in a sports mad city long behind MLB, NFL and NBA teams, you just tell the commissioner(who you gave a new contract at 7 plus million per) to make it happen and the rules are bent sufficiently to action the command.

      • Ian Cobb says:

        Where in the world would we find a bilingual GM and Coach that have NHL connections, savvy and experience. Just like Ken Dryden said, that the Montreal Canadiens can choose to be good, or French.

        • Jim Edson says:

          Reckon the Berlitz schools in Montreal could be working overtime!

          Goatier’s “savvy and experience ” is in his own arrogant mind!

          When are you going to Florida this year?

          ———————————————————————-
          What does the Commissioner of the NHL do?

          In short, a league commissioner is the action man for the Board of Governors.

          They tell him what they want done and he works to make it happen through his subordinates while making sure that individual franchises play by the rules.

          ******** Translated if you haven’t won the Stanley Cup in 40 years your NHL team is becoming irrelevant in a sports mad city long behind MLB, NFL and NBA teams, you just tell the commissioner(who you gave a new contract at 7 plus million per) to make it happen and the rules are bent sufficiently to action the command.

    • SmartDog says:

      Ian, I’ll bet you a beer Gauthier has months not years! I’d even say weeks.

      ————————————-
      Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

      • Ian Cobb says:

        Fine! but where do they get an experienced GM that speaks both languages. Not going to happen. So they bring in one of their former players to screw things up even more. You have to get one from around the league somewhere.

        • HabFab says:

          Ian, not sure of how experienced we need. We debated this last night and Chris had a couple of young rising smart hockey executives in Claude Loiselle and Julian BriseBois as potential candidates.

          • Ian Cobb says:

            I do not know them, but I like Don Hay and George Burnett who are winners, both coaching and Managing.!

          • HabFab says:

            Loiselle is a former NHLer, who went back to school after his career was over and became a lawyer. He is Assistant GM in Toronto.
            BriseBois was the Habs capoligist and GM for the Bulldogs, he too is a lawyer and was hired away from the Habs by Yzerman to be Assistant GM in Tampa. Both are fluently bilingual.

  55. habs001 says:

    While many things have happened to this team , i still believe if we have had a decent pp like in previous years we would be in a playoff position and a lot of negative things would not have happened…may be simplistic but i feel the pp has been the major contributor that led to the other dominoes to fall…

  56. PeterStone says:

    i’m not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, but Darren Dreger explains why the trade went down as it did, and, it’s not entirely PGs fault. This was supposed to happen before the game, and, due to paperwork being filed by Calgary ( they had to put some of their players on LTIR to make cap space ) there was a delay.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=385003

    • vegas says:

      I read it and I undersatnd there were several factors. But if Gauthier knew was aobut to trade him, he could have chose not to dress him period or announce that he was suspended. The problems were on Calgary’s side. This would have probably wooped the team even more going into a game against Boston

      • They were many other options to deal with this, sadly how it went down was the worst in my opinion.

        With the Bruins leading 2-1 after 2, how do we know that Cammy would’nt scored the equalizer to make it 2-2. Many other factors come into pay on this one also.

        But the deal was done as it was done, let’s move on and see what happens

        Visit us @
        http://www.articlespluss.com

      • PeterStone says:

        I dont think he knew for sure, and, we still had a game to play. As the article said, he was waiting for Feaster to get ownership approval. Who says its Yes ? Maybe they say No, Cammi doesnt get traded, and then what .. did they even have an exrta body on the road with them ?

        I cant say I understand any of PGs moves, or agree with them, but, I wont hang something on him that isnt his doing. he’ll give me plenty of other things to roast him about.

  57. aj says:

    Hopefully, the Habs 2 weekender games would not succumb them into a losing mentality disorder! Otherwise, everybody in the dressing room might need shrinks for therapy.

    (I’m not mocking Cammy, I do agree with him BTW).

  58. I just heard that when Gomez gets back from his injury, he will be taken over Cammy’s position in the lineup. He will be inserted in the 1st line.

    I want to know if anyone has heard of this to be true?

    If this is true, _________________, ( I am speechless)

    Visit us @
    http://www.articlespluss.com

    • GenerationYHabs says:

      The Pleks line hasn’t been the 1st line in a long while now.

    • WindsorHab-10 says:

      Heard the same thing except that PG will buy him out before the end of his first shift.

    • Phil C says:

      I just read that Gomez filled in for Gio at practice on the top line when Gio was injured. I don’t think the Habs should touch the Eller or DD line, so going onto the Pleks line makes sense, better than Blunden IMO. I prefer Blunden on a crash line with Noki. Where would you put him and who would you put with Pleks?

  59. Strummer says:

    I see “Montreal is digging out from under a pretty good snowfall”

    At least Rene Bourque will be able to see over the snowbanks!

    ______________________________________________________
    “You have to be this tall to ride on this ride”
    -as posted in amusement parks across North America

  60. novahab says:

    I have to give PG some credit ne knew he was putting his neck out there hiring Cunneyworth.Now the strange trade in a middle of a game. There is no place to hide in Montreal and yet he opens his choices to the masses. He could have hire Roy and been a hero and put Cammy out there on the open market. One thing you can’t say ,he not boring. Stay tuned I think there more to come.

  61. HabFanSince72 says:

    Sometimes very quiet reserved people are actually very emotional, they just don’t show it. Are Gauthier and Gainey too emotional?

    What emerges from Stu Hackel’s excellent (as usual) article is that there was an impulsive element to this. They had talked about a deal earlier. It was on hold. And it was rushed back on after The Interview. Gauthier may have acted in anger.

    The problem is that firing him now will leave a new GM no time to get the lay of the land.


    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  62. New says:

    I understand the hype around all this but not the reason for the hype. When you look at the moves Gauthier has made this pre-season and season they are good, better than one would expect. Cammi was good with the press but a one trick pony. Set him up and he shoots. Get the puck away from him in the clear and he is a liability. He was really well paid to score, often injured, and seldom scored. Kaberle is not the be all and end all but he and Jaro Spacek are birds of the same feather. Cole was a great signing and indicative of what the team needs. Diaz and Emelin have surprised.

    So why the teeth knashing? The timings of recent firings and the Cammi trade smack of temper. But in each trade the timings may have matched when the best deal was available. People need to separate their dislike for a person from the ledger. Contrary to press belief the GM doesn’t have to run trades or his calls past Burke or the press first. Gauthier is getting a bum rap here although the ledger book will decide his fate, not the word of mouth.

    MaxPac should play better with Bourque in the lineup. Why should he lose buckets of money on suspensions trying to be one of the few playing with an edge? Bourque will play like Bourque. Someone to share the load. The GM is right. Goals are scored from the front of the net. The odd one goes in off the wing, very few of those not flukey in some aspect.

    In a season when the team is going downhill I have enjoyed watching the games since RC took over. I haven’t liked the results but the team is playing better. The worst thing is the campaign from some in the media to be the product rather than reporting the product. La AC is a perfect example. Many of these people were or are affiliated with the organization yet trash talk every move, every idea, every individual. It is one thing to have happy Hab fans talking you down behind your back. What can it be like to have people wandering the inner corridors doing that? Who exactly is responsible for poisoning the workplace there? Why? Because he was refused purchase? Qui sais.

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      I agree with you except for one thing: it is correct that Gauthier’s moves since he took over as GM have been mostly good (Price, Cole, Gorges, etc …). But what is his responsibility for what happened when he was assistant GM?


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

      • G-Man says:

        So, is the assistant GM in charge or can he make recommendations. He was not the boss, so we’ll never really know. BG has to take the kudos or blame when he was GM, not everyone else.

        _______________________________________________

        Tanking- The Losers way of winning.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I agree on the moves you highlight, but there were some smaller moves which I believe PG made mistakes on.

      First, with the cap room he had in the offseason he should have made a move for a rugged 4th line cent reman instead of gambling on Enqvist which in turn led to Nokia. The Betts attempt looked good but alas it was too good to be true that Philly outright released him as he was damaged goods.

      His move to shore up the D was too late and picked up another soft damn instead of picking up a rugged damn like an Obrien etc.

      Did like PG’s other moves but these 2 smaller moves failed.

    • Bobcat Bob says:

      Bobcat Bob
      Hello New. That is far too insightful and rational a post for the negative whiners on this site to understand — but you are dead on in your analysis –well done!!!!!

  63. Caper says:

    I have been a fan for over 40 years. I have lived through the great 70′s, the recovery in the mid ’80′s until mid 90′s and the debacle of Reggie Houle and Mario Tremblay which I deem as the darkest times as a fan. Not winning the Cup in 19 years is unacceptable. While these times are bad, it is nothing like 95 through 2002. That was bad. However this is awfully close and it must be stopped asap. While more imcompentency is taking place, this is more out of control than what we saw in the late 1990′s. Gauthier is reclusive, odd and desperate. I am a commercial banker and not a shrink, however I believe the man is not well. Social misfit? He is a GM who knows hockey regardless of what we think. He has made some good trades and for the most part. Other than the way it was handled, the Cammy trade is not bad. What is wrong is how things are being handled. From Pearn to the timing of Cammy’s trade, Gauthier is making the Blue Jackets look competent. It took years for us to get UFA’s to come here and Thursday night Gauthier just put the Habs in the position that they may have to master drafters for the next number of years. I have my doubts if top UFA’s will make Montreal a destination in the near future. I had no doubt that after Cammy made his”losers” comments, he was going to be traded. I also have no doubt that that regardless of what Cammy or “hockey experts” such as Nick Kypreos say, that was Cammy asking for a trade. See ya! But trading during the game? Brutal. Mr. Molson, please fire this man sooner than later. Surely there is enough good people in the scouting department to put their heads together and make some decent trades. Allowing Gauthier to remodel this team is not fair to the the loyal fans of this team. He has made us a the butt of jokes and the laughing stock of the league. Please do not allow Montreal to become know as Toronto East. The man must go.

    Caper

    • Duke_Rauol says:

      After those motley years in the late 90′s, i thought Gainey would bring the habs back to the elite level they once were.

      Bet on the wrong pony……….

      ——————————————————————-
      We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold……

      • Caper says:

        So did I. Toronto was hot to get him for GM but hired Ferguson instead. Gainey did do many good things. We had some good seasons and he along with George Gillette made the team once again classy. I thought that with his success in Dallas we would win a cup for sure.

  64. LafleurFan says:

    Putting out a frivolous fun topic, best Canadiens trades:
    1. Ralph Backstrom to L.A.
    2. Kirk Muller and Rollie the Goalie for Stephan Richer and Tom
    Chorske.
    3. Bobby Smith for Mark Napier and Keith Acton

    “May you live in interesting times.”

    • G-Man says:

      Mickey Redmond, Guy Charron and Bill Collins to Detroit for Frank Mahovlich.
      Boston traded Dryden to the Montreal Canadiens, along with Alex Campbell, for Paul Reid and Guy Allen.

      _______________________________________________

      Tanking- The Losers way of winning.

    • Duke_Rauol says:

      wasnt muller involved in the turgeon trade?

      ——————————————————————-
      We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold……

    • Duke_Rauol says:

      my bad, i get it now. id say u have to inlcude Kordic for Courntall.

      ——————————————————————-
      We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold……

    • Strummer says:

      Trading John Kordic to the Leafs for Russ Courtnall.

      That was mostly Toronto though as Coach John Brophy was dying to get the truculent Kordic on his team.

      ______________________________________________________
      “You have to be this tall to ride on this ride”
      -as posted in amusement parks across North America

    • Strummer says:

      Pete Mahovolich and Peter Lee to the Pens for Pierre Larouche

      ______________________________________________________
      “You have to be this tall to ride on this ride”
      -as posted in amusement parks across North America

    • AliHaba says:

      Craig Rivet to San Jose for Josh Gorges and a first rounder (Max Pacioretty).

    • Phil C says:

      Russ Courtnall for John Kordic. Stellick was on Sportnet last night talking about the dangers of making a rash trade. He said he made this trade in a hurry out of frustration with the lack of toughness in Toronto and he has been a broadcaster instead of an executive ever since.

  65. novahab says:

    Well If Cammy was a problem we’ll find out tonight. If the team plays well then ok, but if they lay down watch out.

    • I don’t think cammy was the problem. Calgary GM just spoke to Cammy after the trade to welcome him back and Cammalleri was pumped, full of emotions and passion ready to help the Flames make the playoffs. Look for Cammy to re-gain his scoring touch now that most of the media pressure is off on him.

      Even if the Habs win tonight and tomorrow, even if they win both games, they still have to prove to this fan that they want to and have the desire to win, this means getting into the playoffs and making a long run into it.

      PG can make all the trades and moves that he likes, he can bring snipers, fighters, goaltenders, Big D-men, but unless you can put pucks in the net you’ll never win and win consistently.

      Visit us @
      http://www.articlespluss.com

      • NCRhabsfan says:

        That’s silly. Of course they want to win. Even recreation league players want to win. I played for forty years and I never played on a team that didn’t want to win. I played on some teams that didn’t think they could win, but that is different. The Habs this year seem to fall into that category. I don’t think they really believe they can win, and that is a self-fullfilling prophecy. They don’t have to prove to you they want to win with a play-off berth and a long run in the play-offs. They want to win. They may not be good enough and/or they make lack the confidence to win, but let’s stop with the hysterics about them not wanting to win. Really!

      • Bobcat Bob says:

        Bobcat Bob
        He was exactly the problem!!! Lousy attitude, bad mouthed teammates, plays solely for himself not the team, did not even think he was playing badly when in fact he was stinking out the place!!!! Good riddance to this prima donna

    • JUST ME says:

      Cammy was not the problem but probably not the solution either. I expected him to fly when Jacques Martin was let go but it did not happen. Then i thought he was injured but not !

      I was more in love with his potential than his production i guess.
      Not sure what to expect tonight. I have an empty feeling meaning that i do not believe that the recent events will serve as a kick in the butt nor do i feel that Ottawa is an exciting challenge. Not that they are not up to par just that their style is nothing to be stimulated by…

    • Bobcat Bob says:

      Bobcat Bob
      Novahab– I ask you ,did the team lay down against Boston in their own building???? No, they played the ass off them and should have won with any luck at all. You can bet Boston doesn’t want Canadiens to finish 8th — simply because Habs continue to play Boston super tough, while the rest of league goes belly up
      when they play them.

  66. Duke_Rauol says:

    Maybe we need Anakyn Slade to write a new song to pump the boys up?

    ——————————————————————-
    We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold……

  67. Mad Habber says:

    Okay so I take back the clean hit comment but I ain’t taking back the bruins being a circus act.

  68. JohnBellyful says:

    Resistance to the idea of ‘tanking’ seems to be slowly dissipating among HIO contributors, although not without some soul-searching. Many still find offensive the idea of a full frontal assault on the integrity of the game and the august tradition of the Canadiens by, in effect, conceding the remainder of the season in hopes of landing a Top Five draft pick.
    There are different kinds of ‘tanks’ to choose from, however, any of which might find favour among fans:

    Light tank
    1. Gomez returns to lineup, plays 10 minutes a game.
    2. AK traded to Western Conference team for third-line forward and second round pick.
    3. Darche’s TOI triples to help him trigger three-goal performance clause in contract
    4. Team encourages players “to have a couple” before each game to loosen up
    5. Team promises fans free chicken wings if they sing Ole Ole every five minutes
    6. Price made target of mystery pranks, including itching powder in jockstrap
    7. Molson sits behind bench, making high five gestures as players come off the ice after each shift

    Medium tank
    1. Gomez returns to lineup, plays 15 minutes a game on second line
    2. AK traded to Western Conference team for fourth and sixth round picks
    3. Teammates ordered to pass to Darche to help him trigger three-goal performance clause in contract
    4. Team insists players “have a couple” before each game to loosen up
    5. Team plays Ole Ole non-stop in the dressing room during intermissions.
    6. Practical jokes continue with Price spraying face with ‘water’ that turns out to be vinegar
    7. Molson sits on bench, writing in little black book and passing notes to Cunneyworth

    Heavy tank
    1. Gomez returns to lineup, plays 20 minutes a game on top line PLUS the entire shift for all power plays
    2. AK traded to Eastern Conference team for future considerations and a used Yugo dealership.
    3. Bag skate for everyone after each game Darche goes scoreless.
    4. Team fills water bottles with Molson Canadian
    5. Players informed anyone chosen game star must join fans in five-minute post-game rendition of Ole Ole.
    6. Goalie coach Pierre Groulx fired, replaced by Andre Racicot to address “weaknesses” in Price’s game
    7. Molson towel snaps players as they emerge from showers

    Super heavy tank
    1. Gomez named captain, assistant coach, offensive co-ordinator, and head scout
    2, Team notifies authorities AK’s papers aren’t in order and have him deported
    3. Molson Export three-star selections are rigged to ensure Darche is named first star every home game, creating dissension within the room
    4. Team requires players “to shoot up” before each game, saying it will improve their accuracy
    5. Céline Dion named official anthem singer.
    6. Budaj becomes starting goaltender
    7. Molson announces Rejean Houle and PJ Stock have been hired as consultants but insiders say some furtive fellow referred to in whispers as HH has become, de facto, the team’s
    éminence grise

    – “A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.” –

    • G-Man says:

      Good morning, JB! Entertaining and funny as usual.
      See my signature and avatar for my response. ;)

      _______________________________________________

      Tanking- The Losers way of winning.

      • JohnBellyful says:

        G-Man, don’t stand in the way of regress!

        Only by receding can this team get back to succeeding!
        From the ashes of defeat emerges the resplendent phoenix of victory!

        [I'm still trying to figure out which line to use for a signature. Ah, maybe I'll revisit http://www.propagandaslogans.com one more time]

        Oh, I forgot: !

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Your knowledge of heavy tanks is mesmerizing. I feel as though I just read the behind the scenes production of Greatest Tank Battles. Thanks General Bellyfull, or is it Brigadier General?

    • HabFab says:

      So to make sure I have this right…
      Only the shadow knows!!
      And that is __ __! OMG!!

    • habstrinifan says:

      Good morning John Bellyful. Thanks for the smiles.

      Wonderful stuff again. Thanks for injecting some pure mirth into the boards. I am going to join you. Presumptious I know, but then, in today’s habsworld, I am sure I wont be the only afflated ninnyhammer attempting a job whose payscale is above me.

      My musings for the day then…

      If you think tanking is bad consider Lancelot De Mole’s mom on the day she disowned her son. “In one hour he would kill more Moles than a Westmount skunk in a week.”

      Mike Cammallieri’s new denouement books “Only losers fear the number 13″.

      Lars Eller (schooled in habs-speak but still a little raw ) when asked about Mike Cammallieri . “I am deign to say that I was surprised”.

      PG ‘s new advice to kids everywhere “si vous voulez jouer avec cette équipe, Francois, oubliez vos légumes, mangez vos slumgullion.”

      As my granpa always said “She’s gotta eat meat to swep me off my feet”.

      Well I failed! But least you had to pause some to wonder what the heck my post is about… which kinda took your mind of you know what.

  69. kirkiswork says:

    Hockey Sataurday night and Sunday night, NFL playoffs, makes for a good weekend.
    If we can win them both, Great weekend.

    • G-Man says:

      Looks look my Giants face an uphill battle. Still, until game time I can dream of the Giants go..ing…all…the….way!
      ;)

      _______________________________________________

      Tanking- The Losers way of winning.

      • JohnBellyful says:

        Once again we agree to disagree. I’ve been a Packers’ fan since the 60s and so hope your dream is nothing more than … a dream.
        Giants go..ing…all…the…way…back to Giants Stadium to clear out their lockers!

        • G-Man says:

          Hell, JB, I’d rather be hopeful and see Manning pull off a stunning upset. Whatever the outcome, it’s always a blast to see a game from Packer Country. All those parkas. The frigid temperature. Fans going bonkers. It’s beyootiful, I tells ya!

          _______________________________________________

          Tanking- The Losers way of winning.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I think the GMen of NewYork have an upset percolating G, incidentally what are The Giants paying you in royalties for using your GMen tag line?

        • G-Man says:

          It’s only taken people here 4 years to figure it out. Shhhh! ;)

          My fave Super Bowl win was when the Bills missed that last second field goal. My 2nd fave was when Phil Simms killed the Broncos – Super Bowl XXI. He went 22 for 25 that amazing day.

          _______________________________________________

          Tanking- The Losers way of winning.

  70. Phil C says:

    I was surprised to see so much criticism of Subban for his hit on Krejci on the other thread from Habs fans. I was getting frustrated watching this game because even though the Habs were down 2-0, they were just “sticking to the game plan”, getting pucks deep, quick changes, etc, looking like they were playing not to lose instead of trying to make something happen. I was thinking to myself that they looked defeated with no fight or push back, no one trying to make the big play…then BAM!! Subban!! Finally someone stepping up and making a big play! Takes out their top centre and drawing a penalty. Finally some life, which led to the PP goal, and gave the Habs a chance. He may have gotten his arm a little high, but it looked like an attempt at a clean hit to me. The Habs need more of this attitude from their players. It was the most leadership I have seen from Subban this year, it was a momentum changing play and the Habs need more or it. The Habs have to stop playing with fear and start making plays. Fortune favours the bold.

    • LafleurFan says:

      Didn’t have the chance to see that game. Thanks for a nice re-cap, I actually felt like smiling in reading it.

      “May you live in interesting times.”

    • Malreg says:

      I had no problem with the hit. It warranted a 2 minute elbowing penalty, that’s all.

      • ffenliv says:

        I don’t see how any fan without team goggles on can say that. We’ve seen players suspended all year for hits like that. Not big suspensions, but it cost a game or two nonetheless.

        Fact of the matter is Subban got his arm way up, and there was no reason to have it there. Under the current system, it should have been a suspension, but wasn’t, and the league continues to waffle on this stuff.

        Curiously as well, in the past week a Bruin was suspended for 5 games, and a Hab player escaped suspension. I challenge the ‘league wants the Bruins to win’ whackos to work that one into the equation.

    • ed lopaz says:

      I agree Phil – it took a lot of guts to do what Subban did – and he did try and wake the team up.

      For those who don’t like the hit, or

      For those who don’t like the fact that Subban refused to fight a 3rd party instigator who is an experienced fighter (ferrence fights all the time)

      For those who don’t like Subban’s trash talking after the hit, his smiling and laughing,

      just watch the NFL today!!!

      Subban is like a defensive safety out there when he hits like that.

      Funny that those hits are applauded in the NFL.

      Funny that no defensive back is ever expected to fight after the hit.

      Funny that virtually every defensive back is trash talking all over the field.

      its the “culture” of Canadian, Don Cherry hockey that is critical of Subban

      if you “dare” hit one of my players hard, be prepared to fight or you are a coward.

      I say BULLSHT to Don Cherry!!

      I say BULLSHT to fighting in the NHL – WE DON’T NEED IT!!

      • HabFab says:

        Ed, I love the kid but the smirking irritated me some. The turtling I can understand because in this case he was blind sided in a scrum and covered up.
        My worry is “how do his team mates see it?”
        If negatively then PK becomes part of the problem, not the solution.

    • Mad Habber says:

      “they were just “sticking to the game plan”, getting pucks deep, quick changes, etc, looking like they were playing not to lose instead of trying to make something happen. ”

      Shhh you didn’t just say they were playing with a losers mentality did you.

      • Phil C says:

        I would never say that, I don’t want to get traded to a Calgary website. ;-)

        But watching them play a 1-2-2 when they are losing in the third period makes me want to curl into the fetal position with despair on my living-room floor. Of course, I could turn off the TV, but we all know that’s not going to happen.

  71. LafleurFan says:

    “If ye break faith with us who die, we shall not sleep, in Flanders Field.”

    Sad chapter for our storied Habs, this ’11-’12 edition. Like Deuce, am avoiding cynical caterwauling. The disappointment we’re feeling now in mid-season will be a feeling most of the league’s teams’ fans come April. I won’t break faith with MY team of 42 years and running. Cammie will be remembered for his majestic performance duing the Halak playoffs. Therefore he’ll rank higher than some of the past torch bearers (fumblers?), Craig Darby, Juha Lind, Patrick Traverse(no.27).

    “May you live in interesting times.”

  72. deuce6 says:

    I love being a Hab fan, but this “doom and gloom” stuff gets pretty redundant..Whenever we do anything to try and help this team, there are critics out there crapping all over it and desecrating the Montreal Canadiens franchise..

    When was the last time this team made a move where the media or critics actually liked or said would help the Canadiens as a whole? If we win a deal, its “sideways”, at best…

    Columnists and sports writers are all too quick in crapping on this franchise for trying to help the team move forward..

    They even said that the Cole signing was a bad one because we over paid for the man’s services..How is that one working out? The guy is doing nothing less than carrying this bunch of smaller forwards on his back…Cole is the type of guy I want leading this team, not a guy that complains about ice time and does nothing to earn it..

    People are knocking Bourque’s attitude, but do they knock Cammallari’s attitude when he publicly called out his team mates on a “Losing attitude” all the while giving a half assed effort on the ice to back up those statements?

    I welcome Rene Bourque to this team and its about damn time this management team realizes that in today’s NHL, you need to score the dirty goals to win anything..This isn’t the ballet…

    ——————

    Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

    • deuce6 says:

      Just to add..I was watching Hockey Central last night and they interviewed Jay Feaster..They went on and on about how the deal came about and what things were said between the two team, yadda yadda yadda..But what rubbed me the wrong way was at the very end of the show, that punk Doug McLean pipes up says,”So, how could you do that to a friend?”..As if to say, how could you completely “rape” the Canadiens organization like that in a trade?

      Nobody is giving Bourque a chance, but are all too quick to give Cammalleri a chance..The same guy who got the big pay day and decided to coast to his retirement all the while calling out his teammates in the media..Get where I’m coming from?

      ——————

      Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I heard that on the radio here in T.O., McLean is a complete JackAss and that is as polite as I can describe that douchebag. All I can say is if McLean thinks Calgary stole/won the trade then I am confident we won the trade. The guy made nothing but bad move after bad move in Columbus and has never been hired again for NHL work. Of course there was also his complete turncoat situation with Balsillie and Phoenix. After ripping Balsillie repeatedly for how he was dealing with Phoenix he then turned around and accepted a job with Balsillie to try and help land the Coyotes. Of course that failed miserably, and therefore I don’t qualify that as an NHL job as it was a job trying to get an NHL team.

        What I found disturbing in that was how Feaster laughed about the comment instead of being professional.

      • Mad Habber says:

        He was happy when Montreal management selected Carey Price instead of Gilbert Brule. Enough said?

    • doublerr says:

      Duece is absolutely right!
      Colton Gillies is on waivers, 22yrs old, 6’4 208 LW 650,000 this yr and next. This is the kinda guy we should have on the 4th line, not a 35yr old Darche who doesn’t hit, check, score or fight. Just saying!

    • Habs in the UK says:

      Some random thoughts from a sunny but chilly UK:
      -Great trade. Addition by subtraction. Cammalleri was going through the motions. And if he was as toxic in the room as they say, even better.
      -Habs have a GREAT young nucleus. Eller, Leblanc, Subban, Gorges, Price, Max, Emelin, Diaz, Beaulieu, Gallagher. Mix in some of the younger vets – Pleks, Cole etc, and I’m VERY optimistic.
      -Thursday (watched on replay last night): Eller is getting better and better. Subtle but very smart moves, both ends. Gaining confidence. Showing leadership (in Lucic’s face etc). Fun to watch. A captain in the future, I would say. Thought Blunden played his best game. Scoring chances, good D. You don’t necessarily notice him, but he NEVER makes a mistake. Darche: he’s Darche, but he brings it every time. Honest, team player. Can’t knock that. Good role model for the kids. My only criticism last night (apart from Subban’s showboating) was the Bruins took 5 or 6 liberties with the Habs (big hits, chippy etc) and NOBODY pushed back. Gotta get tougher. Gotta get grit. Watched the Bourque highlights – scores goals, but – for his size – was hoping to see a few hits, fights. Hope he brings sandpaper. Would be a big improvement over Cammalleri’s handbag………
      Off to the pub.

    • G-Man says:

      Damn straight, deuce! It’s ok to disagree with a move, but the media and many here hate every move management makes. Screw ‘em all! I am a Habs fan and I won’t give up.

      _______________________________________________

      Tanking- The Losers way of winning.

    • Bobcat Bob says:

      Bobcat Bob
      Deuce — best post I have read in this sea of negative nellies.

  73. aj says:

    Let’s rally for our Team! They’re already LOSERS and we’re still demoralizing them.

    Oh! Did I just said they’re ‘losers’?

    Pls don’t kick me out of here, i’m still a Habs fan.

  74. CharlieHodgeFan says:

    The Gare Joyce peice referenced is brilliant.

    The ghosts of the Forum are sitting in classrooms rented to Dawson College learning something while the Bell Centre is full of short term thinking idiots with no leadership, and the spirtit of McDonalds managers.

  75. The Cat says:

    How good is Erik Karlsson for the sens. Hes surpassed Subban.

    [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

  76. CharlieHodgeFan says:

    White is an AHL talent with a slight chance of making it with the Habs, and no chance of making it on a good team. Let’s cut the crap on expectations – he’s a borderline guy who won’t bring much more than Blunden.

  77. deuce6 says:

    I respect players that go to war for their team mates..This team needs more of the fire that White provides..He can play for me any time..

    ——————

    Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

  78. BeachHabFan says:

    when white IMMEDIATELY went after boychuk for a hit on Subban last season, the whole team grew about 4 inches taller. indespensible to have that kind of passion and commitment on the team – the fact he can throw em, kill penalties, and forecheck with speed will keep him in the NHL

  79. jayvanni says:

    Thats complete crap, Ryan White if anything is at least a quality 4th line forward in the NHL. Not only is the guy a warrior who will fight anybody but hes actually got speed and some offensive flair. He is by no means a heavy weight but he is a great gritty, energy player.

  80. HabinBurlington says:

    I don’t recall anyone saying white was a 1st/2nd/3rd line player. He is a very effective 4th line engery player. He is defensively responsible, aggressive forechecker and will drop the gloves in defence of his teammates. I don’t understand your slagging the guy. He is on a one way contract at a very reasonable price. Having watched White play alot in Hamilton, and watching his effectiveness in the lineup last year, I think he brings more than Blunden and indeed look forward to his return. He brings intangibles to our lineup which we currently lack Big Time.

  81. Jim Edson says:

    An AHL talent maybe who has shown the presence of spinal fortitude and will defend teammates.

    His beatdown on Boychuk last year won him tons of respect!

    He’s a fourth liner who doesn’t dive or run from the goons of the league.

    ———————————————————————-
    What does the Commissioner of the NHL do?

    In short, a league commissioner is the action man for the Board of Governors.

    They tell him what they want done and he works to make it happen through his subordinates while making sure that individual franchises play by the rules.

    ******** Translated if you haven’t won the Stanley Cup in 40 years your NHL team is becoming irrelevant in a sports mad city long behind MLB, NFL and NBA teams, you just tell the commissioner(who you gave a new contract at 7 plus million per) to make it happen and the rules are bent sufficiently to action the command.

  82. kempie says:

    hdcase – (Henri Case)
    Member since May 10, 2011

    Boston
    Habs fan since: 1960
    Favorite current player: Milan Lucic
    All-time favorite player: Jean Beliveau

    Signature:
    hdcase

    Now back under your bridge young man.

  83. ffenliv says:

    If you’re gonna throw big hits, particularly one like that, where the Bruin is quite clearly eating Subbie’s arm, you have to be ready to drop the gloves. There’s no way around it. I was ashamed to actually like Subban when watching that.

    He doesn’t have to skate around looking for fights, but when you go for the big hits, you have to be prepared to a) answer the bell, even if the hit was clean. That’s just a reality of the league and b) definitely drop the mitts if a hit was not clean.

    I’m certainly not saying Subban went for the face on purpose. he’s not that stupid. But he did get him in the head, and I’m surprised he wasn’t suspended.

    He doesn’t have to be a goon, but to fall and cover his face like that was moronic.

  84. Carnegie says:

    AMEN!!!!!

  85. stevieray says:

    Not paid to fight ..agreed .. However if you elbow someone in the chops especially a top six forward …these days you better be ready for what comes next . It’s got nothin to do with gettin’ paid to fight it’s got everything to do with being held accountable for your illegal actions. PK ..turtled …if he’s gonna yap and carry on with his antics ..he will need to drop em’

  86. HabFanSince72 says:

    Remember last time they played Denver raced out to a 21-0 lead.

    (OK, it isn’t going to happen this time…)


    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  87. G-Man says:

    What’s with his shout out to Rodin after each TD?

    http://mindfirst.com/521/ideas/ten-laws-for-working-with-a-mentor/

    _______________________________________________

    Tanking- The Losers way of winning.

  88. stevieray says:

    stranger things have happened my friend …

  89. slychard says:

    Don’t like Tebow, Tebow fans ( the one’s that make a T with their arms then make like they’re shooting a bow and arrow gesture, or the ones TEBOWING ) But I don’t want to see another championship going the Boston way. Here’s the end of an exchange I had with my Masshole friend…
    Me; But Tebow has God on his side. (tainted in sarcasm of course)
    Friend; Tam Bwady is Gawd.
    Let the Broncos ruin the Patriots fans party before getting crushed by the Ravens the following week. That’s my perfect world.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Kiss my hAbSS!!!

  90. CharlieHodgeFan says:

    I do watch the Habs. What I saw of White was good, but none of us saw it for long, and how it would play out over a season. His injury has given him a saviour’s role in the yes of many fans, but I see a guy who made the team in the past, but who could well be in the AHL by now if he hadn’t been hurt. If he returns and keeps his place on the team, good for him. I see a spare part elevated a little to high in the minds of some, and for whom expectations are unrealistic. If he sticks and becomes a solid fourth liner then the team is ahead, but right now, Blunden and Moen are doing his job adequately, and it’ll be up to White to earn a job when he returns.

  91. ffenliv says:

    Oh, give it a rest man. At least you made it through that post without your capslock key.

    I said when you go for the big hits, not just any hits. We’ve all seen over our entire hockey-watching lives that big hits, legal or not, often lead to scraps. I don’t like it, and I don’t think many fans do, but it happens a lot. Subban needs to be (and is) aware of this, and not fall down and let himself be dragged around while trying to avoid … everything.

    Dozens of hits every game are are seen as nothing more than hits, but big ones like that (particularly when you see he got his arm/elbow up) will draw the other team in. You know it will. Subban knows it will, and yet instead of standing up for himself, he did whatever the hell that was.

  92. CharlieHodgeFan says:

    I don’t ever recall seeing Larry Robinson, Serge Savard, Chris Chelios or other major habs defencemen that Subban aspires to be in the same league as turtling. Subban should not have to be a fighter often, but the turtling is an embarassment to see.

    I’d ban fighting, but since it isn’t banned, it has to be dealt with.

  93. HabFanSince72 says:

    Hockey’s not going to be much fun I fear.


    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  94. stevieray says:

    Lucic ….??? wrong site partner

  95. HabFanSince72 says:

    I don’t think it’s a sport of geniuses. I pointed out a few days ago how much luck is involved in management’s moves either panning out or failing.

    Take the Gomez trade.

    In 2009-2010 the Habs went to the ECF and Gomez played well (14 points in 19 games). Gaborik did OK but the Rangers failed to make the playoffs despite their immense salary outlay (remember they were still paying Drury and Redden).

    In 2010-2011 Gaborik missed a quarter of the regular season. Rangers were swept in the playoffs and Gaborik played but did absolutely nothing.

    So for the first two years after that trade an owner might have been irked at Glen Sather.

    Now, two years later, the Rangers are better off. Is that because Sather is brilliant and Gainey a fool. Not really. It’s the luck of the draw. You make moves – sometimes they pan out sometimes they don’t.


    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  96. HabinBurlington says:

    Agree, and made similar point yesterday. If we can turn 1-2 UFA’s we sign into players, picks and prospects that is good.

  97. Ian Cobb says:

    Warm here in Belleville until today. First 3in. of snow this winter, yesterday. And it is clear and cold today. Have you got a plane?

  98. Habfan10912 says:

    Habs, your definition of freezing is a tad different then ours I’m guessing. : )


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