Rangers fan Jimmy Fallon rubs it in a bit after winning bet with Habs

(Photo: Canadiens via Twitter)

Jimmy Fallon, the new host of The Tonight Show on NBC and a big Rangers fan, had some fun on his show on Monday night, rubbing in the fact he won a bet with the Canadiens when New York won the Eastern Conference final in six games.

The majority of Fallon’s monologue at the beginning of his show focused on the bet.

“The Montreal Canadiens actually, they bet me, they provoked me, they poked the bear,” Fallon said about the bet that developed on Twitter.

“Here’s the deal,” Fallon added. “When the Rangers win … not if … I change the (Habs Twitter) avatar to a photo of my choice and also I want Youppi! to walk around the streets of Montreal in a Rangers jersey. They said, ‘All right, it’s a deal, we’ll do this.’

“So I got to say, these guys, they’re good sports. They made good on this bet with me and they sent Youppi! out to take pictures of himself … it’s really depressing.

“But this shows you how beautiful the city is. Montreal’s a great place.”

Follow Fallon on Twitter by clicking here.

Follow the Canadiens on Twitter by clicking here.

To see more photos of Youppi! in a Rangers jersey, click here.

The Canadiens announced on Tuesday the dates for their annual alumni softball tour, featuring many former Habs players along with some former Expos. The alumni roster will include former Canadiens’ Guy Carbonneau, Sergio Momesso, Stéphane Richer, Chris Nilan, Patrice Brisebois, Mathieu Dandenault, Gilbert Delorme, Mathieu Darche, Richard Sévigny, Yvon Lambert, Enrico Ciccone, Dave Morissette, Jocelyn Lemieux and Pierre Dagenais, along with former Expos’ Claude Raymond, Steve Rogers, Derek Aucoin and Denis Boucher. For more details on the softball tour, click here.

635 Comments

  1. CHicoHab says:

    I can see on my laptop but can’t reply. Keeps asking me go to settings and enable cookies. When I do it’s still doesn’t allow me sign in. But yet my iPhone doesn’t update past jimmy Fallon

  2. chrskwn says:

    at first i thought everybody just stopped watching and talking hockey during the cup finals for some odd reason

  3. chrskwn says:

    me too yet it works fine on my computer .. ?!

  4. CHicoHab says:

    I can’t get this thing upto date on my phone???

  5. RealtorRichg says:

    Hello…anybody home?

  6. dexterdog says:

    VANEK is German for MOOSENUT

  7. Habsbill24 says:

    This site is amazing. It is like we cannot stand to have a goal scorer on the team like Max. Let’s tear him down and run him out of town. Better that we have a bunch of guys hustling but producing nothing. Max is 25 and has had a series of very serious injuries. After the Chara hit many thought he would never play again. He cares, he is still learning. He wasn’t schooled in the junior leagues, he played high school hockey in Connecticut. Every year he has improved. Give him time to grow. The last thing he needs is a legend like Lafleur shooting off his mouth. Lafleur did not exactly leave the Habs on good terms and has had a shaky personal life. He of all people should be more supportive. This is Max’s first real shot at the playoffs. Let’s see how he is in a couple of years.

  8. UKRAINIANhab says:

    “We have no chance of beating LA”

    – a good percentage of HiO.

  9. Habfan17 says:

    There were a few players that just didn’t seem t have it against the Rangers. To his credit, Vanek publicly acknowledged he did not play well enough and was not hurt. Would he consider coming back, I don’t know and I am not sure Beregvin still wants to try to bring him back.

    I am concerned with how fragile Patches mental state seems to be!
    He has at least on a few occasions, stated he needed to put his whole game together and be more consistent, yet that still has not happened.

    Hopefully, he along with the other young core learned from this play off and will be different next chance they get in the play offs. The value of the veteran players is to instill in the young ones, that they may not get another chance to win the cup and you have to take full advantage of the opportunity when it arises!

    It will be an eventful off season and I am sure as we learn of the signings and trades that Bergevin makes, some here will welcome them, some will condemn them. That is part of what makes it fun to be here! Even when we don’t agree!!

    Habfan17

  10. frontenac1 says:

    Party has moved next door amigos. Open Bar.
    I

  11. JUST ME says:

    Guy Lafleur is my idol . There will be no other greatest athlete for moi. It`s been decades now and no one has ever come close to take his place. Lafleur is all about instinct on and off the ice. He is all about winning and can`t stand losing.
    I`d rather listen to what Lafleur has to say any day than what neverwere wannabees as McKenna and Marinaro are paid to spill…

    Nonetheless ,I have rarely agreed with Lafleur`s explosive comments over the years but i know he is saying it from the bottom of his heart. This time he has a valid point but not to the point that we can blame the individuals he is naming . Vanek looks like he does not really care but he has a special style and i am not sure that he was fitting in the Habs mold anyway.

    As for Max i totally disagree with le demon blond. He has shown that he cares, injured or not ,gave great efforts ,has skills,speed and shows the way. Now maybe he does not have enough playoff experience but this is not entierely his fault.

    We all agree with Guy that a player aiming to sign a new deal should give 300 % of himself on the ice but do you really think it will make a difference for a guy like Vanek ? This guy will get the jackpot whether he produces or not and as a matter of fact most of the players do. That is where times have changed since Lafleur`s glorious days on the ice.

  12. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …Guy Lafleur’s broadside on Vanek and Patch is accurate

    …Vanek ?, fire away Guy, because He’s gone anyway, but Patch is a long-term good-value for the money asset whose criticism (public humiliation) by a paid ambassador of the Team should be wise to keep such opinion within management’s ear-shot only

    …if I’m Bergevin, I will demand Mr. Molson strip Guy of His ‘ambassador’ status

    …the criticism of Max can go 2-ways, …it can be a kick-in-the-ass to ratchet up His determination, or it could be an issue to sour Patch’s dedication to the organization (ask for a trade ? …as He mentioned from time to time He is also often overwhelmed with the extremes of Our Fans’ negativity when things don’t go well)

    …39-goal scorers don’t grow on trees

    • Louisville says:

      I’m sure Molson doesn’t want to be the one to banish Lafleur a second time. Max does not seem to handle criticism well. He better be able to handle this sort of thing better or his career will not last long.

    • Habitant in Surrey says:

      …man ! …always some sort of shite-disturbing drama in Habsville …eh ??? :)

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        I thought about that, whether it means that Guy loses his Ambassador status. I’d hate that, I can tell you I’d be stoked if he came out to a softball tournament I was at, or he came by to sign autographs at a car dealership somewhere. Guy meant a lot to us growing up.

        Guy was lost in the wilderness for a long while, I think it was Geoff Molson who got him to bury the hatchet and come back in the Canadiens family. It would be counter-productive to terminate him.

        This is a performance management issue. You can’t change Guy’s attitude, you can’t change his personality, but you can request a change in behaviour. As awkward as it is, Mr. Molson needs to sit down with his idol and go over the expectations of the role, and what are the do’s and don’t’s. It would be great if he issued a retraction, couch it in the words of the trade: “too passionate, care too much, too emotional, …” Explain that he didn’t mean to single out any players, he was using Max and Thomas as examples. Chuckle that in his day, they had tough eliminations too, and they went through this, ….

        A personal apology to both players would be really nice. If I was the boss, that would be an essential part of it, you have to make amends for your mistakes. Nothing fancy, he phones each player and says he’s sorry, got over-excited, shouldn’t have said what he said, was speaking in hypotheticals. It’s over in a couple of minutes, and everyone moves on.

        • Habitant in Surrey says:

          …yeah, after I wrote the above I told Myself ridding Ourselves of Guy would not be wise for many reasons, I agree He should talk to Patch and offer Him a qualification on what He meant as best as possible

          …but if I was Patch I may not want to listen at this time :)

        • B says:

          Lafleur is more than entitled to his opinions. It’s not the first or the last time he has said what’s on his mind. I don’t think it will have any effect with Pacioretty’s play on the ice or his relationship with the team. He may not be first in line for the next Guy Lafleur charity event, but then again he would likely still lend his name and time to a good cause. Like others have said, it gives us something to talk about but is not a really a big deal or anything.

          –Go Habs Go!–

          • twilighthours says:

            If a GM or assistant GM wouldn’t say those words, why would a fringe employee?

            And what good could it possibly serve?

            Keep it in house, B. Lafleur is entitled to an opinion. It should be held privately.

          • B says:

            I agree that it raises some eyebrows, but that’s what you get with Lafleur sometimes. I don’t always agree with him, but I respect his right to an opinion. Lafleur’s past hockey exploits earned him his spot as a team ambassador and it has probably earned some leeway when he says stuff like that. Perhaps I have gotten used to it, but I don’t think it’s a big deal. Some may think otherwise, not a big deal to me either.

            –Go Habs Go!–

    • New says:

      I think that too often the “Boss” rolls in and tells everyone how proud he is, what a great job they have done, and morale goes way up. I bet the Leafs do that all the time.

      Nothing wrong with keeping morale up. Still there will be guys in the room who actually know who busted their backs to carry the team and who coasted along. Some people get really tired of doing all the work while other people get the credit. Then again Marcel Dionne has a Stanley Cup ring. Never won one, never earned one, really irritated his little brother had one, so the Kings gave him one. I bet he is as proud of that ring as anyone could possibly be.

      Guy earned his rings. And the right to speak. The media and fans who labeled him a bad choice were wrong then, and wrong now.

  13. Un Canadien errant says:

    The thing that burns me is that Guy Lafleur is an Ambassador for the Canadiens. That entails some responsibility, one of them being that you don’t burn one of the young stars of the team and another player that your GM is trying to sign to a new contract.

    If he wants to be a blowhard and wax eloquent on everything Habs, he can start a blog, write a column for a paper, be a talking head for TVA or RDS, he can hold court at a tavern. What he can’t do is be on the team and take potshots at the team. That’s teamwork 101. But it won’t be the first time that Guy put himself before the team, it’s actually all too predictable.

    ———————————————————————–
    My sources are unreliable, but their info is fascinating.–Woody Paige

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • Ton says:

      Guy’s account for HIO is pending………its about to be approved by Boonie. His comments are in character with some of the posters on this site. Couldn’t agree with you more Guy feed the hand that feeds you! He is my hero but only prior to 1981!

    • twilighthours says:

      Word up, Normand.

  14. Pucknut says:

    IMHO #10 Guy Lafleur is as right as rain on this subject. In the NHL you have to play bigger than you are to be consistent. These are 2 6’2″ players who play like 5’7″. The smaller players in this league don’t have any other choice but to player bigger… or go home.

    Lafleur didn’t call out DD; because, he tries to play like he’s 6’2″

    Yzerman, Sakic, St. Louis, Henri Richard & Cournoyer, to name just a few, not only played bigger than they are/were… they excelled.

    • C-Sword says:

      I actually wouldn’t mind trading him for a player that would score fewer goals in the regular season, but can step his game up during the playoffs. I don’t even think the Flyers would give up Wayne Simmonds for him.

      One thing I really hate about Max is that every time he gets pulled down on the ice or hit hard, he’s always looking at the referees for a penalty instead of rushing back into the game.

      I think that a lot people are just disappointed that he isn’t the power forward we were hoping he would become. I’m not saying we should get rid of him, I just don’t expect him to be the one to carry the team.

      • Louisville says:

        Actually it really irked me that the whole team made winning secondary in their rush to get Patches he’s 40th at the end of the season. Patches should have stopped that kind of play immediately, instead it dragged on for several games. I hink the coaches should also have done something about it.

  15. Habsbill24 says:

    Let’s put all this in perspective. What counts are results not just effort. Gallagher who always puts in the most effort had zero goals and one assist against the Rangers. Not winning many Cups with that production. This was the first extended run with the young guys like Eller, Max, Gallagher, Chucky and Bournival. Let’s give them a second run before we pass judgment and come to a conclusion. They had a great run this year but instead of praise you get someone like Lafleur shooting his mouth off. Why would any free agent want to come to Montreal with its extraordinarily high taxes and to put up with this kid of abuse. Lafleur should issue an apology to the team.

  16. krob1000 says:

    Gonna be an interesting Stanley Cup Final…I still think NY.
    NY Speed and Structure vs Size and Simplicity…going to be close than people think…I still think somehow this is just meant to be for NY.

    • Habfan17 says:

      I think the first game will be close, then LA will slowly wear down the Rangers and win the cup!

      Habfan17

      • piper says:

        I think it will all come down to goal tending. The team with the best keeper wins. The question is, who will take out Quick?

        • Habfan17 says:

          I will bet the first time Kreider gets anywhere near Quick, he gets knocked in his butt! I am sure the Kings have been made aware that Monsieur Kreider has ” taken ” out 3 goalies now.

          Habfan17

    • JF says:

      People here tend to under-estimate the Rangers. It seems to be the general opinion that we’re a lot better than them, that in fact they’re a lousy team and the Kings will dismantle them. I don’t share this opinion. I think the Rangers were clearly the better team in our series, better both offensively and defensively. I also think that their speed and defensive structure will give the Kings problems. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Lundqvist has better numbers than Quick through the playoffs. He was excellent in our series with the exception of Game five, and I think he also had one bad game against the Penguins. Quick has had a bunch of bad games in these playoffs and has generally been inconsistent. I think the series will be closer than people expect.

      I’m cheering for the Rangers for two reasons. First, to be beaten by the eventual champions makes us look better than if we were beaten by the loser. But more importantly, if the Rangers win, it’s likely they’ll fade for a year or two. If they lose, they’ll be right back next year.

  17. habcertain says:

    I think at the end of the day, Max himself would acknowledge he needs to be more consistent, and did mention as such when he was lagging in the play offs. His game is pretty much one dimensional, but he is young and can continue to build. If he was smart he would use Lafleur’s words to spur him on and get to the next level of compete, then take him out for a beer and thank him. Max can become the next hockey God in Montreal if he chooses.

  18. D Man says:

    Thanks to #10 for giving us something to talk about. I’m sure Patch has heard it all by now and maybe even will have a chuckle.

    You can’t be both a Habs and a Leafs fan

  19. CHicoHab says:

    For all the support Patches got from the team and the city when he was kneck hogged I can’t see him being bitter to the team or city because of Lafleurs comments. I think it will make him “Wake the F*%K up!!!!!”

  20. DipsyDoodler says:

    Lafleur is right about Vanek.

    He’s wrong about Patches who was clearly our best non-Carey Price player in the crucial last two games vs Boston.

    —–
    Moving. Forward.

  21. Louisville says:

    Wow, people calling for Lafleur to be fired…so in the image of the Habs these last 20 years. Lafleur is a winner…is Patches?! What a bunch of sorry apologists on this sight. No wonder this team has gone no where for so long. Lafleur had it 10000% right.

    • Loop_Garoo says:

      I don’t believe Lafleur was right about Patches. He is a streaky scorer, always has been so far, and like many players in the league, may always be. He is still one of the leagues best pure goal scorers, and I’m thrilled to have him on the Habs.

    • New says:

      People always call for punishment when someone says something they don’t want to hear. Roy said what Corey, Tremblay, Houle et al didn’t want to hear. Keane repeated it.

      One thing in life you can always count on. Say the Emperor’s new clothes might be missing a piece or two and everybody involved in complimenting the Emperor will call for your head.

    • twilighthours says:

      It doesn’t matter if he was right or wrong. It’s not the way to manage people or be a part of a team.

  22. Mattyleg says:

    Afternoon all,
    Spent the greater part of today brewing beer.
    Brew Day = Good Day.

    Brewed a ‘Saison’. It’s a kind of a citrusy, fresh, snappy blonde Belgian beer without the heaviness of standard Belgian beers.

    Went off with a minimum of hitches (always a hitch) and it’s fermenting away now for the next 7 days, then conditioning for 6, then bottling and further conditioning for another 3 weeks.

    I’m going to call it “Bleu-Blanc-Rouge Saison ’14”

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  23. piper says:

    Lafleur saying what he did to the press, only hurts the team. I believe he has a point but making it public like he did i’m sure will make Max bitter towards the organization and the city. When he becomes a UFA i’m sure he leaves. It also doesn’t do much for his value if he wants to be traded.

    • Loop_Garoo says:

      He isn’t going to leave because of one thing Lafleur said years before his contract expires. Montreal is a hard city to play in due to the intense scrutiny and constant commentary, I am sure that most of the players end up learning to deal with it.

  24. krob1000 says:

    I somewhat agree with the general sentiment although I think Vanek was put in a situation that is not ideal for him and Patches should probably have been moved to play with teams center who was playing the best in Eller to try to ignite something. The refusal to ever break DD-Patch and the misuse of Vanek IMO were big reasosn for the power outage on offense IMO at the end. I guess that is a vague statement…better yet …(I realize MT did accomplish a lot and I am not discounting that)if you are already going to put lines in a blender anyway…which I am fine with…at least do so according to who is playing well. IF you need to get Patch going…why not play him with Eller who was on fire all playoff long. The reluctance to ride the hot hands and recognize off nights and good nights IMO was an issue that MT did have. HE did many things that boggled my mind but worked but offensively he was too stubborn on both the pp and in the favourable matchups to deviate from his regular season producrers….here is the odd thing…if he was banking on the reg season guys to score in those circumstances…why put Vanek with PLeks? Something did not add up there….

    • montreal ace says:

      Krob my guess would be that Vanek, was just trying to get through the playoffs injury free.

      • krob1000 says:

        Playing him with PLeks did not work in the season so why in the playoffs would it? Vanek needs to be able to float and needs minds like his. Pleks is awesome…but he is a unique player and his game is a two way one. I think if both Chcuky and Vanek played there and Pleks was told to be offensvie like the old AK-PLeks-Ak days it may have worked…but it was just a bit off. Vanek was only happy when playing with scorers….you don’t have to like that about him and maybe it is enough to not sign him or even make an offer…but while you do have him….put your pride aside and do what is necessary to score some goals and win.

  25. CHicoHab says:

    The reality is Patches has been on and off the Habs team since 2008. His best season numbers were 65 pts in 2011-12. This year he got 60pts. I think he’s been around hockey enough that his playoff performance shouldn’t be excused because it’s too early to pass judgement. His regular season points are commendable considering the type of team we have. But Guy said he didn’t show up in the all most important game like he should have. Fair comment IMO. What’s all the hoopla about and crucifying #10!!!!!

    • Forum Dog says:

      I’m with this. I’d have to read his comments in their full context to really know what Lafleur was thinking (or not), but nothing that I’ve read so far is way off base. Maybe he shouldn’t have commented on a player under long-term contract like Pacioretty, but I don’t think he is wrong in his assessment. Pacioretty is pretty soft, I think most of us can agree on that. He has very little edge to his game – perhaps for good reason – and his intensity wavers game-to-game and even shift-to-shift. We saw it a lot during both the regular season and playoffs. Guys that win cups tend to be hard as nails. Warriors who go hard on every shift. I don’t think that is Pacioretty’s make-up.

      We have to consider the source as well. Guy knows what he is talking about, but he loves the spotlight and will speak freely even when he shouldn’t. Hopefully Max takes it for what it is and doesn’t let it affect his relationship with the club. He is a great player who just needs to up his intensity and consistency in order to reach the next level.

      • Mr_MacDougall says:

        Patch is a one dimensional player.. Similar to Ovechkin.. He scores off the rush and after that he does nothing spectacular… He is a below average passer, actually, his playmaking vision is lacking. He has no deception in his game, he skates in straight lines.

        Having said that, he is a,valuabe second,line player making second line money.

        ~~ Plekanec at the Disco ~~

        • Loop_Garoo says:

          He is a valuable first line player making second line money. There are very few teams in the league that would not have him on their first line. Just look where he finished in goals for the league.

        • DipsyDoodler says:

          When your dimension is scoring, being one-dimensional is OK.

          —–
          Moving. Forward.

        • B says:

          Pacioretty is a pretty decent penalty killer. Ovechkin?

          I suppose a 2nd line player who finishes 4th in the league in goals would have to be considered valuable :)

          –Go Habs Go!–

      • Habfan17 says:

        Very well put. I compare Patches to Shutt with his knack for shooting, the difference being, Shutt still did it in the playoffs!
        When I see the passes that Patches makes, I question his overall hockey sense. I also question his ability to thrive under pressure. He was terrible on break aways and he sure did not do well on the Olympic team. His play off performance was less than inspiring!

        Habfan17

        • Mr_MacDougall says:

          I agree with he hockey sense comment.. He was the player that caused the most giveaways on our PP in the playoffs.. He will never be a great PP player against elite teams.

          ~~ Plekanec at the Disco ~~

          • Habfan17 says:

            He is what he is. Would teams want a 40 goal scorer? yes! Do I want Patches on the Habs? Yes! Do I wish he was as much a player that gets you through the playoffs as he is one that gets you there? YES!

            Habfan17

    • krob1000 says:

      Pathc is an elite goal scorer…top 5 in the entire NHL….his center man is not a top 5 in the NHL centerman…DD played far better than I thought he could away fromt he puck and worked his butt offf which impressed me…BUT…here is my belief so take it for waht you will. For Dd to be effective offensively I do not believe he can play the hustle game he did in the playoffs….it is just simply too demanding on him. He did what he thought was necessary and worked harder and won more battles than I thought he could…but in order to do so I believe it came at the expense of much of his offesnvie ability and drained him. I thought th seame of Gallagherr who was expected to do too much lifting as well. Patch is viewed like he should do that stuff but he is a goal scorer…to do that he needs to be finding open space, taking chances and looking for ways to create. I was pleasantly surprised at Chucky;’s level of play in the playoffs…something I did nto believe he could do but again I think his size helped him. I think smaller guys can be effective …guys like both DD and Gally…but in order for small guys to be effective, especially in the playoffs they need to play like small guys need to….they had their energy sapped. I think a lot of shuffling was done but IMO it was the wrong shuffling of the lines. I am not saying you have an offesnive juggernaut but I think a lot of the teams top offesnive players were not put in their optimal rolse and used at optimal times.

  26. Mavid ® says:

    Jerk..easy to say something after the fact..

    Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

  27. alfieturcotte says:

    Way I see it, if anyone is entitled to call out the team/players, the Canadien w/the most points, Hall of Famer, 4 Stanley Cup rings, etc is certainly entitled to do so……

    • twilighthours says:

      And you are an experienced caller-outer. How you doing anyway, Alfie?

      Price had a heck of a year, eh?

      • alfieturcotte says:

        Ha – doing well. How are you twilight? Correct, experienced fan who on occasion calls out those deserving of criticism and supports others who merit the praise….

        Price had a very good season, impressive. Much better than he did the previous yr. The playoffs are more difficult to judge given the injury. That said, he played well vs Boston and only average vs the Bolts. It would have been nice to see how he performed vs the Rangers. That said, Tokarski gave us a good chance to win each night; Rangers were the better team.

  28. Habsbill24 says:

    Hard to give much value to what Lafleur says. This is a guy who never took training seriously and retired early because he was sulking over ice time. Never was considered as a coach or GM. I am old enough to have seen Guy’s entire career and I loved him when he played but he adds nothing now with his comments. This was Max’s first real playoffs when he was not injured. Too soon to pass judgment. I recall that Lafleur underperformed his first three years in the league which he seems to have conveniently forgotten. Max will learn. Guy never learned to think before he speaks.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      Lafleur’s comments are crap. Max wasn’t the greatest in the playoffs but he was trying out there. Was he our best forward…nope but Vanek was awful as he sucked in the offensive zone and defensive zone.

      Put the numbers in perspective Gallagher who everyone says played great had the same point totals as Max.

      Max does need to elevate his game to the next level for the playoffs a bit more but I think that will come.

      Vanek won’t be around so no need to worry

    • myron.selby says:

      That whole thing about Lafleur not training falls under the category of urban myth. He was actually a fanatic about it. Read his biography and you’ll see how much effort he put into his game. And oh yeah, the stuff about smoking in the dressing room was nonsense too.

      Also, he was played on the third line for his 1st 3 years to learn both sides of the game. As soon as he was moved up to a scoring line he exploded.

      • Habsbill24 says:

        And how about his early morning battle with a stop sign? Urban myth as well?

        • myron.selby says:

          Nope, but just because the one is true is no reason to further spread the other falsehoods you’re putting out there. Like I said – read the biography and you’ll have some idea of how driven he was to succeed.

          The biggest problem Guy had was that he trusted the organization too much and they hosed him royally and repeatedly.

          • Un Canadien errant says:

            myron, on this issue we disagree. I’ll suggest you read D’Arcy Jenish’s book on the Habs, he does a good job of popping that balloon about how Guy Lafleur’s career was ended by shadowy forces beyond his control, by a conspiracy of Jacques Lemaire, Serge Savard and Ronald Corey. Those guys’ job was to win hockey games. If Guy had been playing up to his talent, if he’d been serious, if he’d behaved like a pro, his numbers wouldn’t have dropped off like they did, and he wouldn’t have found himself unable to play on the first line, or anywhere else. He could have eased out of his scoring championship years like Steve Yzerman and Joe Sakic did, into a leadership supporting role, he didn’t need to flame out like he did.

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        It’s not an urban myth. It was well documented in the papers at the time, and D’Arcy Jenish recounts the end of his career quite well.

        http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.ca/2013/08/review-montreal-canadiens-100-years-of.html

        Guy used to play hard, and spend a lot of time on the ice on his own before games. As a kid he used to sneak into his arena and skate early in the morning before going to school. He didn’t do any ‘training’, as very few players of his age did. He talks about how water-skiing gave him strong legs. Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull used to throw hay bales. It was a different time.

        Once he made the NHL, and his skill and physical gifts began to wane, he didn’t adapt. He kept to the same routine, plus the cigarettes, the booze, and other recreational substances that went along with his constant partying.

        So at the end of his career, Guy was not well conditioned, he wasn’t training, he was trying to get by on natural ability.

        I always like to recount the anecdote that when he announced his comeback attempt with the Rangers (gag), he told the assembled press that he would take up a boxer’s training regimen to get in shape, and quit smoking… the next day. That’s the level of dedication to his fitness that Guy has.

        The thing that burns me is how Guy isn’t beyond reproach, he’s not flawless. He played amazing hockey during the four Stanley Cups from ’76 to ’79, but then after did very little in the playoffs. Anyone remember him in that Minnesota series in !980? How about when Richard Sévigny famously uttered that Guy would “put Wayne Gretzky in his back pocket”? How did that one turn out? How did he react to adversity? Did he, to quote him, “disappear”?

        http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=2902

        Max and Thomas Vanek didn’t have a great playoff, they were hot and cold, and couldn’t beat the Rangers without Carey Price backstopping them. And so did Guy’s performance suffer when he didn’t have Jacques Lemaire, Serge Savard, Ken Dryden, Scotty Bowman…

  29. Habfan17 says:

    There was exchange of posts earlier on regarding the importance of face offs and winning them. Some believe they are important, some believe winning them is over rated, reasoning that not many goals are scored directly off of a face of win.

    I was a centre for many years and I can tell you as a player and a coach, winning them is very important. It is not just about scoring a goal from the draw, although a little side note, twice I did score taking the draw. Anyway, if you are down a goal late in a period or game, and you lose the draws, you lose precious time trying to get the puck back. If a team spends the majority of their shift chasing the puck, they have that much less energy to create offence when they get it back.

    If the stat was available, and maybe some of the more stat astute HIO members know where to find it, I would guess that more goals and scoring chances come as a result of winning a faceoff! There are reasons teams look for centers who have high winning percentages on draws and why they coach it!
    Habfan17

    • shiram says:

      Faceoffs are about puck possession, and if you lose too many you have to exert more effort to get the puck on your team’s sticks.
      They certainly matter.
      But people do over react to them.
      So a player is at 49.3% win, does not mean he’s awful, actually it would mean he’s in average.

      • Habfan17 says:

        It does say a lot when teams look for players that are up around 56%. I think each game, you need at least one guy that is closer to 60% The better 3rd and 4th line players on draws seem to be the ones that teams that won’t be making the playoffs trade to the teams that need depth.

        Habfan17

    • New says:

      I think if you lose all the faceoffs at center and win all the faceoffs in the end zones you’ll likely dominate the game.

      • Habfan17 says:

        That is definitely a key point! However, if you lose all neutral zone face offs, you still don’t have puck possession so you have to get the puck back and it could lead to more defensive zone face offs.
        Habfan17

        • New says:

          They’ll just lob it in 7 chances out of 10. Besides your goalie has to have something to do or they try headers and off net glove save showboating.

      • Mr_MacDougall says:

        I agree, certain faceoffs hold much more value.. Neutral zone face off losses are similar to a dump when you change… You willfully give up,possession…

        ~~ Plekanec at the Disco ~~

    • Danno says:

      It’s a huge advantage to win faceoffs. One of the reasons the Habs lost to the Rangers was because Tokarski, as good as he was, was inferior in terms of puck control. He tended to “play it safe” and froze the puck way more often than Price would have resulting in many faceoffs in our zone. This lead to over taxing our defence because we often lost those face offs which snowballed into scoring opportunities and goals for the Rangers. Price would have reduced those faceoffs in our zone with his superior play-making skills, in my opinion.

      ________________________________________

      “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”
      Updates, highlights & great discussions on all things Habs

    • Cal says:

      Faceoffs in the NHL are not won by the center alone most often. Usually, as mentioned in an earlier post, the center ties up his opposite number and a winger gains possession.

  30. twilighthours says:

    I imagine this has been beaten to death by now, but I just got here, so…

    If Lafleur said those things, and if he is actually on the Habs’ payroll (IF, don’t actually know if he is), then…

    The Habs need to fire his arse ASAP.

    Regardless of if he actually thinks that, and regardless of if it’s true, that’s exactly the kind of thing you keep in-house. This is Cammalleri, part 2. And it needs to be treated as unacceptable. You keep family business private.

    If he’s not on the Habs’ payroll, then spew away.

    • habcertain says:

      this is not the mafia, geez lighten up, he is not in a daily management capacity.

    • montreal ace says:

      He could have been a touch more diplomatic, since he is on the payroll, but I do believe he should be allowed to say what he thinks.

      • Habsbill24 says:

        The problem is he doesn’t think.

      • twilighthours says:

        I can’t think of one good thing that could come of these comments.

        Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

        Were I the boss, he’d be gone today.

        • Mavid ® says:

          don’t bite the hand that feeds you..besides he has no idea what Max is going through..Vanek is another story..tell us something we don’t already know Guy..I always got the feeling he never really wanted to be in Montreal anyway..I was excited about him at first but that changed rather quickly after hearing him speak..and seing him play..

          Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

          • habcertain says:

            you were not excited about seeing Guy Lafleur play for the Habs, really, it kind of goes number 9, 4 ,10. That is the core of everything Habitant.

          • Mavid ® says:

            i was referring to Vanek playing..not Lafleur

            Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

    • New says:

      I’d give Guy a pay raise for being one of the few to have the parts to speak up. What is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to say the car is a beauty, that blue smoke is injector cleaner residue and it stops better after the brakes get warmed up?

      Guy Lafleur cared more about winning in each and every game than most current Canadiens do over their entire careers.

  31. UKRAINIANhab says:

    You guys think NHL refs are bad, just wait to you see FIFA’s! Possibly the most bias refs ever (Watch France, Brazil)

  32. myron.selby says:

    I agree that’s its probably unwise of Lafleur to go public with the statements he made regarding Vanek and Max. That being said I don’t disagree with what he said.

    Interestingly, I went for lunch with my brother on Friday and his comment on Max was that we need guys like Lafleur who play better in big games not disappear when the heat is on. We both agreed that they might want to trade Max when his stock is high.

    It’s possible that he might figure it out but I don’t believe it. When he is playing, he is one of the top forwards in the league. His speed, strength and shot make him dangerous every time he gets near the puck. Unfortunately we saw almost none of that from him in most of the playoffs.

    What can you say when he goes a whole playoff game with only a single shot attempt (which was blocked). He just doesn’t seem to have the drive to win when the chips are down. He doesn’t even try to get to the puck let alone do anything with it. I don’t mind a guy being snake-bit and not scoring. But when you put in the kind of effort Max did, you’re not helping anyone.

    As for Vanek, I think he may have just Rydered himself. I remember when Michael Ryder was scoring at will down the stretch last year the talk was that he would be looking for 4 or 5 years at 4.5 to 5.5 million per. Then he quit for the last part of the regular season and the playoffs for the Habs. He signed with New Jersey for 2 years at 3.5.

    So at the most conservative numbers being thrown around he cost himself 11 million.

    After Vanek’s performance in this playoffs (and his comments about chemistry) I’ll be surprised if any team offers him anything evenly remotely resembling the 50 million he turned down from the Islanders.

    • B says:

      In his first 3 NHL playoffs, Lafleur had 4 goals and 10 assists in 29 games (.48 ppg). In his first 2 NHL playoffs, Pacioretty has 5 goals and 6 assists in 21 games (.52 ppg).

      It wasn’t until his 4th NHL season that a more experienced Lafleur cranked up his playoff production and began a run of 6 straight playoffs with more than a point per game before tailing off.

      –Go Habs Go!–

      • krob1000 says:

        when guy was 23 to 25 yrs old he put up 28 goals, 34 assists for 62 poits in 38 playoff games for 1.68 ppg

        • B says:

          I am talking about experience, you are talking about age. Lafleur already had 3 full NHL seasons and 3 NHL playoff runs under his belt before he turned 23. Lafleur’s production didn’t really soar (going over the ppg plateau) until his 4th season when he was 23. Pacioretty’s first full NHL season wasn’t until he was 23. I believe that makes a difference.

          –Go Habs Go!–

    • montreal ace says:

      Max is not a fighter plain and simple, he and DD need a winger that can fight and give them room. I am also tired of Gallagher getting rag dolled on that line, he is much more talented then just a guy who digs the puck out for others

  33. 24 Cups says:

    I only post this so people can read the comments section. Sometimes that’s the best part of the article.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=453946

    24 Cups

  34. Un Canadien errant says:

    Hilarious article, also on the bad Canucks drafting over the years:

    …is Ron Delorme’s record as head of Canucks amateur scouting really that much worse than everyone else?

    To find out, I decided to design an extremely basic you-don’t-have-to-even-think method of drafting and compared it to Vancouver’s draft record under Delorme. I’ve put a summer intern with nothing but a book of CHL stats and no access to any non-Canadian junior league up against an entire team of world-travelling, game-watching professional amateur scouts. If the Canucks’ brass can’t clear this woefully low hurdle, then holy hell they are awful.

    Spoiler: it’s even worse than you think.

    (…)

    Sham will not pick and choose his draft selections. He has no access to game tape, he has seen no games, and he has no fancy stats or analytics to aid his decision. He will select all players by the following rules:

    1) All players selected will be from the Canadian Hockey League.
    2) Goalies are voodoo, they will not be selected at any time.
    3) Defensemen are voodoo, they will not be selected at any time.
    4) The Canucks’ selection will be the player still on the draft board that scored the most points in their 17 year old CHL season that was for-realsies taken between Vancouver’s selection and Vancouver’s subsequent selection.
    5) No other information other than the total number of points a player had in his 17-year old season (his first year of draft eligibility) is considered. This information was freely available at the time each draft was held.
    6) Ties are broken on the basis of points per game.

    (…)

    If Vancouver never kept a single amateur scout on staff, never paid any attention to junior hockey anywhere in the world, never watched a single game, never did any in-depth research, never prepared for the draft for more than three hours each year, and simply took the next highest scoring CHL forward with every selection they had, they would have drafted over 4000 more games of future NHL experience, nearly 1000 more goals, and over 1500 more assists than they did under the Ron Delorme regime. Vancouver’s scouting since 2000 has not just been useless, it’s been a cataclysmic failure on all fronts, and probably the single largest reason why the Canucks have not been able to accrue enough assets to build a perennial Stanley Cup contender. (…)

    http://canucksarmy.com/2014/5/20/we-think-the-vancouver-canucks-may-have-a-scouting-problem

    So a highly entertaining look at the failures of Canucks drafting, a must-read for those who think that Trevor Timmins should be censured over the choice of Louis Leblanc.

    ———————————————————————–
    My sources are unreliable, but their info is fascinating.–Woody Paige

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  35. 21AC says:

    The way the Rangers beat the Habs, Don’t be surprise if they beat LA
    not saying they are going to but I wouldn’t count them out.

  36. Cal says:

    For any who missed this (and I did), this is another hilarious Bellyful take on the season just ended:
    http://johnbellyful.weebly.com/

  37. Un Canadien errant says:

    The Canadiens’ drafting acumen has been called into question the last few weeks, with Louis Leblanc sparking much of the debate. Here is a link to an article bemoaning the Canucks ability to draft well recently. Note how well the Canadiens did in that comparative study.

    http://www.puckwatch.com/2014/05/vancouver-canucks-draft-record.html

    ———————————————————————–
    My sources are unreliable, but their info is fascinating.–Woody Paige

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • Louisville says:

      I think Leblanc had the skill set to make it to the show. My feeling Is that his attitude got in the way.

      • B says:

        He also had some injury set backs. I hope a healthy summer of preparation along with a refocused and improved attitude helps to push his career up to the next level.

        –Go Habs Go!–

    • HabinBurlington says:

      A friend of mine was coaching in the OHL at the time of that draft, the week following the draft I asked him at my baseball game what he thought of Montreals first round pick in Leblanc. This was his opinion, “You guys drafted the top french name available, but no way he should have gone first round, and I doubt he ever makes the NHL”

      My buddy was convinced he didn’t high enough skills to be a highend player in the league and wasn’t rugged enough to be a 3rd line role player.

      Scouts honour, this was his opinion. I told him I hoped he was wrong, he still snickers at me.

  38. I really excited for tonight. I want the Kings to win! I don’t want to spend the summer hearing how McDonagh was the difference (he was one slick dirty Rag vs Mtl). I don’t want to spend the summer hearing how great King Henrik, he was outplayed by an AHL goalie for gawd sakes and I want Kreider to try and run Quick and see if he survives it. RUCK THE FANGERS from. Coaching beat us, not the Rangers. The Rangers are great at shutting teams down, and that’s a system the Kings know how to beat, they time their soft (SOFT) dump in with their attackers and they are always first to the dump in.

    Shane Oliver
    @sholi2000
    http://www.sholi2000.com
    A Little fun during the Intermission
    Don’t Poke The Bear

  39. Louisville says:

    According to Guy Lafleur, neither Vanek nor Pacioretty should have a place on the Habs. Neither one of them has enough heart or passion. He figures anyone can score if he stays in the slot long enough waiting for someone else to dig out the puck and pass.

    Way to go Guy. Never shy to tell it like it is. I’ve never been a big fan of a Patches. Plays too soft and does not BRING IT, when the chips are down.

    • Ton says:

      Guy was my hero but he’s out of touch now……he needs to be told! He was still in his prime in 1981 and and he only scored 21 goals…..the year cigs and boos caught up with him and the year he narrowly missed a stop sign! He had a decent year in 82 but still underperformed. This is not good for our team…….who wants to come and play here!

    • Le Jadester says:

      I agree with what Maritime Ronn said below about GL and his comments. Excellent perspective !

      Habs, OLE !

      • Louisville says:

        I’m not so sure. I think the difference between Montreal and the Rangers was that their guys showed heart and ours didn’t. Also, I find it laughable that many seem to think that Patches is a better type of floating, passionless streaky scorer than Vanek. In fact, they are almost exactly the same. Anyway, I doubt Patches gets traded, so the whole discussion is moot.

        • Habsbill24 says:

          Interesting take and I suppose you think Gallagher was terrific against the Rangers, he who had zero goals and one assist. So for all of his hustle he produced exactly nothing I love Gallagher but my point is it takes different kinds of players to make a team. Without Max the Habs never make the playoffs and he produced way more against the Rangers than Gallagher did. It was a collective team loss.

          • Louisville says:

            Without Gallagher doing all the dirty work, Pacioretty would have been lucky to score 15 goals this season. Seriously, your problem is with Gallagher…wow!

  40. AH says:

    So it’s the Rags vs. the Kings….

    As much as I despise Mike Richards, (IMO he is the one who started all this anti PK bias and sentiment with his “he needs to show more respect” BS)…..

    I hope the Kings destroy the Rags in 4 straight; some things I’m hoping to see in this series:

    1) “King” Henrik gets lit up.
    2) Cocky Kreider attempts to take out Quick and gets pummelled by the Kings, (unlike the Habs nil response).
    3) The Kings big forwards making Lundquists life miserable.
    4) Dustin Brown steamrolling both McDonaugh and the garden gnome MSL.
    5) Glen Sather choking on his cigar in the pressbox as his team is swept out of the finals.

    GO HABS GO!!

  41. Un Canadien errant says:

    Brief interview with Jake Virtanen:

    http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/vancouver-canucks/Potential+Canucks+first+round+draft+pick/9893705/story.html

    Also, Andrew Alberts’ career is apparently over, following a blow to the head by the Flames’ Brian McGrattan, one of the truculenters of that squad. Mr. McGrattan is a good ole’ boy, never meaning no harm, he’s ‘not that type of player’, everyone will assure you. Like Colton Orr wasn’t that kind of player when he went knee-on-knee with Tomas Plekanec and then decked René Bourque, concussing him.

    http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Canucks+Andrew+Alberts+hoping+without+headaches/9898138/story.html

    ———————————————————————–
    My sources are unreliable, but their info is fascinating.–Woody Paige

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  42. Un Canadien errant says:

    As discussed earlier this morning:

    With Panthers general manager Dale Tallon willing to deal the No. 1 selection, one rumour making the rounds suggests the Leafs would deal Dion Phaneuf, Nazem Kadri and the eighth overall pick to Florida for veteran Ed Jovanovski and the No. 1 overall selection.

    As the story goes, the Leafs would then select Barrie defenceman Aaron Ekblad, who would give Toronto an impressive young blue line foundation along with Morgan Rielly, Jake Gardiner and Matt Finn.

    http://www.torontosun.com/2014/06/03/maple-leafs-eyeing-no-1-pick

    ♪ ♫ When you wish upon a star… ♫♫♪♫

    ———————————————————————–
    My sources are unreliable, but their info is fascinating.–Woody Paige

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  43. Un Canadien errant says:

    “Down Goes Brown”‘s Sean McIndoe previews the Final:

    http://grantland.com/features/stanley-cup-preview/

    Stephen Hyden with a pretty entertaining piece:

    http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/the-top-10-classic-rock-artists-who-wouldve-had-horrible-twitter-feeds/

    ———————————————————————–
    My sources are unreliable, but their info is fascinating.–Woody Paige

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  44. Ozmodiar says:

    Cal wrote:

    Pleks went 193W and 195L in face offs this playoff year.

    That’s not too bad, considering the flak Pleks takes for his faceoff abilities.

    The problem is that Pleks takes so many important draws in his own end that some losses are bound to end up in the back of the net. Folks remember these the most, and believe he’s worse at faceoffs than he actually is. As CH Marshall says below:

    … I just had an ingrained mental picture of him losing his draws

    Because these losses come to mind so easily, folks use a mental shortcut, a heuristic, to influence their opinion of how good he is in the faceoff circle.

    I don’t hear this complaint about DD, who was only slightly better than Pleks. Probably because when he loses a draw on the PP, nobody really takes notice.

    • Forum Dog says:

      IMO your top defensive faceoff specialist needs to win more than 50% of his draws. Something between 52-55% is what means you are consistently winning your faceoffs. Which is incredibly important.

      • Cal says:

        Pleks has never been a “face-off” specialist. The last time the Habs had one was Yannick Weber, and that was well before they changed the rules regarding where the center’s skates should be and whether or not a winger moves.

        AHEM- Perreault, that’s what I meant. *cough cough spit*

        • Ozmodiar says:

          Yannick __________

          ;)

        • Forum Dog says:

          Semantics. It has often been stated that Plekanec is put out there for all the important defensive draws. That means he is your go to faceoff guy, and he is losing more than 50% of the time. Not a great stat.

          • Cal says:

            Not really. It just means he is the team’s best defensive center and he is usually out there against the other team’s best offense.

          • Ozmodiar says:

            Agree with Cal. They also have to consider what happens after the draw is won or lost.

            They aren’t going to put DD out there because he’s slightly better on the dot.

        • Savardian Spin-o-rama says:

          I believe you mean Yannick Perreault. One of the best ever.

          ~~ You’ve been spun ~~

      • myron.selby says:

        Just to put this in context – Plekanec won 49.74% of the draws he took. If he had won the 52% you find acceptable he would have won 201 draws. So a difference of 8 faceoffs over 17 games or 1/2 faceoff more per game.

        Seriously how much difference is it really?

        • Was about to do the math and make the same point — thanks! : )


          Devils coach Jacques Lemaire on the Daneyko-Kaminski feud – “Daneyko got mad when Kaminski said he was going to knock his teeth out. Dano has only two teeth left, so you can’t say that to Dano.”

        • Forum Dog says:

          Faceoff wins matter. They give your team puck possession and first shot at either a) clearing the zone, or b) putting the puck on net. MTL has not been great at faceoffs for a while, and it forces them into a defensive posture immediately.

          As for whether 8 more wins would help. Hard to say. If there are examples of losses that led to opposing team goals, I would say yes.

          • Commandant says:

            How many faceoffs lead to goals? Its such a low number… like 1 every 5 or 6 games… so like 1 faceoff out of somewhere near 200.

            Faceoff Percentage is the most overrated thing in hockey. Anything less than a 10% difference is near inconsequential. Its like faceoff per game… which when you are taking something like 10+ draws per game, means we are talking like 3 or 4 goals a season that could be prevented (note that even the better face off guy is still going to lose most of the draws that resulted in goals… its only a small number he’ll actually prevent).

            Give me the better hockey player. The better hockey player will make a swing over more than 3-4 goals over a season than the better faceoff guy.

            This is why Yanic Perreault was never used for defensive zone faceoffs. Even when he won 60% of draws, his inability to play in his own end still made him a liability.

            Go Habs Go!

            http://lastwordonsports.com/

          • Ozmodiar says:

            “Faceoff Percentage is the most overrated thing in hockey. ”

            hmmm… +/- says ‘hi’. :)

            You should read below to see how it’s being manipulated to prove DD is a much better DEFENSIVE player than Pleks!!

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Come on Oz, everyone knows DD is better defensively than Plex, I can’t believe you aren’t accepting of this. (UCe is around so i can’t insert a particular order of semi colon dash closed bracket )

          • Ozmodiar says:

            Stevo has officially jumped the shark!!

          • habcertain says:

            I find it interesting that folks like to jump all over Steve when his stats don’t match their perception of a player’s ability. Maybe, just maybe, Pleks isn’t as good defensively, and DD isn’t as bad, as we think, the stats would certainly indicate that, but hey, who is counting. It appears we are going with a gut feeling approach anyways.

          • Forum Dog says:

            I respectfully disagree with the idea that faceoffs aren’t important. When you can start play with possession of the puck more often than you don’t, it is incredibly helpful. You see this at the pro level. You experience it in men’s leagues. A lost faceoff in the defensive zone creates chances for the opposing team. A lost faceoff in the offensive zone allows the defending team to clear the puck out on their terms. Calling faceoff percentage overrated is missing the point. No stat on its own is a measure of anything. But stats added together amount to something. That includes +/-. How many of you like being on the ice when a goal is scored against you? Is it some weird statistical anomaly that a floater like Ovechkin was -35 last year? I don’t think so.

    • Savardian Spin-o-rama says:

      Pleky is mediocre in the faceoff circle. Here’s a neat site that allows you to compare players head-to-head for a whole whack of different stats…

      http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/players/172738/tomas-plekanec/#Faceoff%20%25$Trades=1&GameType=279588574&SeasonMax=9999&SeasonMin=1990

      Patrice Bergeron is THE gold standard in the FO circle. He’s got the quickness (which Pleky has too) but where he really dominates is on his ability to tie up the opposing center allowing his wingers to come in and secure the puck. Pleky is not very good at that. That said, the wingers have to do their part too and Bergeron has better wingers than does Pleky.

      ~~ You’ve been spun ~~

  45. Thurston says:

    Not Habs related, but think of this when Detroit is referred to as “Hockeytown”: the junior team in that market has crappy attendance, may be sold and moved to Canada.

    http://www.freep.com/article/20140530/SPORTS05/305300154/1053/Karmanos-may-consider-selling-Whalers-attendance-doesn-t-improve

  46. HardHabits says:

    Veteran Youth. North American Grit. There you have it. Marc Bergevin was Habs-Professor after all.

      • CH Marshall says:

        Does he get paid to be some kind of ambassador by the Club? If so, he should really stay quiet. On the other hand, I wonder what kind of coach he would have been…

      • HabinBurlington says:

        It’s Guy being Guy, I’m sure MB, Molson and others will take it with a grain of salt.

        • ont fan says:

          I see it as a former star, sees an opportunity for the stars of today, to become a difference maker and they weren’t. Instead of seizing the moment, they were invisible and he can’t imagine that.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            That is an interesting perspective and one I agree with. He is essentially asking them to rise to the challenge.

    • Cal says:

      Original article for the french among us.

      http://www.lapresse.ca/la-tribune/estrie-et-regions/201406/03/01-4772497-guy-lafleur-il-ne-faut-pas-se-contenter-dune-bonne-saison.php

      «Des gars comme (Thomas) Vanek et (Max) Pacioretty, tu ne peux pas garder ça dans ton équipe. Qu’ils restent chez eux s’ils ne sont pas prêts à payer le prix. Ton équipe ne gagnera jamais avec des joueurs comme ça qui s’effacent lorsqu’il y a de l’adversité», ajoute-t-il.

      He spoke with the air of a former champion. I see his critique as something Patches should build on, because Guy is right. Patches and Vanek did not show up game 6 in NY.
      My take is that this playoff run was an unexpected bonus. Expecting a Stanley Cup performance with the club as it was with the injuries is aiming at the lofty heights without an airplane to get you there. The Habs are still a work in progress.

    • jacquesthemonkey says:

      BTW, the Flower has a history of making controversial remarks so it’s not a big surprise.

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      Guy played in a different era, and you have to wonder if sometimes he gets a little upset about being born about 20 years too early – and then, the NHL earnings of the guys today.

      Lafleur’s last 2 years and salaries were:
      1989-90: $345,320
      1990-91 $347,080
      NHL Minimum wage today: $550,000
      NHL top salary+bonus next year: $14,000,000 Shea Weber

      Perhaps he looks at a guy like Vanek that will no doubt sign a guaranteed contract for about $50 Million and shakes his head.
      The same Vanek that has already been paid $52M at the ripe old age of 30.

    • 21AC says:

      I agree some what with Lafluer, He’s right on with Vanek. If I were GM Vanek would never wear the Habs uniform again. Pacioretty has one issue, he is a streaky scorer, regular season you can get away with that but not in the playoffs. When you’re best scorer is not scoring consistently that hurts the team because hes the guy you most depend upon especially when you need a big goal.

      Habs overall problem is scoring consistently anyway that’s why the Rangers is playing for the cup not the Habs. we are just as good as the Rangers only they got the big goals when needed.

  47. Pucknut says:

    Why do the so-called experts keep claiming that New York definitely has a chance to win against LA because of the “King” minding their net? What has the “King” done in the post-season thus far in his career? So far, he’s an excellent regular season goaltender with a Vezina trophy.

    Jonathan Quick, on the other hand, is a proven playoff performer with a Stanley Cup ring & a Conn Smythe trophy, for SC series MVP, to boot. Quick is a playoff Monster.

    … and Monsters usually eat Kings

  48. B says:

    The ISS has Jake Virtanen ranked 6th overall, he’s 6’1″ 213 lbs and scored 45 goals for Calgary in the WHL last season.

    http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=114013

    Craig Button has him ranked 43rd?

    http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

    –Go Habs Go!–

    • CJ says:

      Good afternoon B.

      Although drafting is certainly not an exact science, Button is not what I would consider to be a strong resource. Looking back on previous drafts, he is, in many cases, well off the mark.

      Again, in fairness, it is a difficult job trying to predict how 18 year old hockey players might end up. It was a difficult exercise when teams drafted 20 year old players. Now, at 18, it is a really a crap shoot beyond the top 10. And, let’s be honest, even the top ten is tough enough finding a concensus.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Yeah, that struck me as odd too.

      Un Canadien errant JUNE 4, 2014 AT 10:40 AM
      I scanned through it, the big surprise for me is that Jake Virtanen is down at #43, whereas most see him in the Top 10. The Canucks are looking to get bigger at forward, so his name keeps coming up as a likely pick when they’re up at #6.

      The thing we have to remember with Craig’s List is that it’s not a mock draft, or like Bob McKenzie an aggregate of a few teams’ lists. It’s not a prediction of where players will land, in what draft position. It’s his own list of the best draft-aged players, based on his own scouting when viewing junior players. So I guess Mr. Virtanen had an off-night or two when Mr. Button was in the house.

    • Habs4LifeInTO says:

      My guess is either McKeown or Bleakley for the Habs depending on what way the draft goes. Both have a chance to be right around #26. Bleakley is my bet. Captain of the Red Deer Rebels. Potential is there to be a top 9 and maybe a top 6. Centre/RW at 6 feet 200 pounds. All day motor….200 foot game. Tons of heart. Bigger version of Gallagher with a little less snipe maybe but he’d be my pick… Character and leadership through the roof…

      24 cups and counting….

  49. Un Canadien errant says:

    ***A few questions about sources for stats and info, so I’m re-posting this from months ago***

    Okay folks, when I first joined HIO around this time two years ago, yearning to nerd out on the draft with fellow Canadiens nerds, I was put through my paces and forced to go through an indoctrination. One part of this was learning where to find information to back up my cockamamie hypotheses. To perform this research, I was pointed to various sources. In a way, HIO veterans told me, in no uncertain terms, where to go.

    So now I will give back. If you’re wondering how many years a player’s contract runs, you need not. Guessing at a player’s age? Unnecessary. Building a roster with line combinations, but stumped by whether a player is a RW or LW, and it’s preventing you from sharing your wisdom with the masses? Be ungratified no longer.

    Here are some websites that everyone should bookmark and refer to before getting into a waste-flinging match in our ape-arium. (I won’t be able to make them ‘link-y’, since HIO allows a maximum of three per post before they’re filtered out as SPAM.

    1) hockeydb.com

    This is the first source as to a player’s career, from junior to Europe to minor leagues to NHL. Draft position is listed for every player, you can always click on their draft year and pat yourself on the back that you’re a Canadiens fan, or more likely, rue what might have been. Better than Wikipedia in that every year’s draft picks are listed with games played, so it’s easy to pick out the winners from the busts in years past.

    2) http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=2

    If you don’t often refer to Capgeek, you should. I gave you the Canadiens’ page, but you can search other teams, and individual players. You can find UFA’s coming up this July, by position. Poke around in there, lots of info, like no-trade-clauses, or teams’ cap spaces, AHL players’ salaries.

    3) habsprospects.com/index.html

    Incredible resource. A godsend. Wondering how many players we have, why people keep referring to this 50-contract limit? It’s on here. So is which players are waiver exempt. How many players are in the system. Another one to poke around in and get familiar. Most Habs roster and farm team questions are answered here.

    4) forecaster.faceoff.com/faceoff/hockey/depthchart.php?Mtl

    A similar resource, shows a few different things. I tend to refer to the depth chart page to keep the LW’s straight from the RW’s, but there’s lots of info there, moves, stats, again, spend some time to get familiar.

    5) http://espn.go.com/nhl/team/roster/_/name/mtl/montreal-canadiens

    ESPN does a pretty good job of providing lots of info in one place. I usually land on the roster page to ascertain whether a player is leftie or rightie, but from there you can research similar roster or stats info for all other teams, great for coming up with crackpot schemes and wacky trade scenarios.

    6) hockeysfuture.com/teams/montreal_canadiens

    Need a hug? Want reassurance that the future is bright? All of our prospects are listed here, with lots of info and some writeups and scouting reports. Note that the draft experts on HIO caution that their info is somewhat unreliable, as when they asserted that Blake Geoffrion was a good skater, for example. Still, it’s a good start, and a decent source. They grade the prospects as to their talent and potential, as well as their likelihood of ever reaching that potential. Great debate starter.

    Need a dose of reality? Look at any other team’s system, and learn that they are just as chock full of promising players and great kids. Their future is bright too. All of them. Except the Canucks.

    Don’t want to be depressed? Don’t search for reports from the farm from 2000 or thereabouts, in which they speak glowingly of Eric Chouinard and how the Canadiens finally got the big centre they’ve been needing, and how the team’s future is assured with all these great prospects lined up.

    7) habswatch.com/p/trade-history.html#.UbogS_kw_9A

    Every single trade the Canadiens ever made, or a resource that comes close to listing them all anyway. The Rod Langway-Chris Chelios-John Leclair-Eric Desjardins-Patrick Roy mausoleum.

    8) hockey-reference.com/teams/MTL/

    Every Canadiens team. Every season. Every player. Every stat. Everything.

    So there you have it. The world at your fingertips.

    ———————————————————————–
    My sources are unreliable, but their info is fascinating.–Woody Paige

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  50. SteverenO says:

    @ OZMO – you wrote:
    Blinded by stats – if you think DD was our best defensive center.

    Do you track where they start their shift, as in, what zone they’re in for faceoffs? Who they’re matched up against?

    How can someone who puts sooo much time into this not see the obvious. Such a waste of time.
    ***************************************************
    Talk about not seeing the obvious: One player , Plekanec, is on for 16 goals even strength Against and the other Desharnais is on for 6 – both played roughly the same amount of minutes.

    Do you honestly believe that Plekanec was the better defensive centerman?

    It doesn”t matter where the shift starts, it matters where it ends. In this case too many of Plekanec’s shifts ended with the puck in our net.

    Zone starts is an an indication of which player the coach BELIEVES to be his better defensive, and offensive, centerman.

    The fact that Plekanec was on ice for a goal against every 17 minutes while Desharnais was on for a goal against every 43 minutes is incontrovertible proof that , for this playoff run , DD was far and away MUCH better defensively than was Plekanec.

    Claiming otherwise is what is wasting time.

    Perhaps if the two were close, lets say Plek was on for 12 goal and DD for 10, you could drill down deeper into the stats and make an argument for Plek being better defensively. In this case the difference is so large that there can be NO argument about which player performed better from a defensive standpoint.

    regards,

    Steve O.

    • chanchilla says:

      DD doesn’t take faceoffs in his own end, Plekanec plays against top lines. It’s like you didn’t watch a game all season.

      • SteverenO says:

        its the coach, not the player , who determines when he goes out to play. The discussion here was about the playoffs and which centerman was better defensively; Plekanec was on for 16 goals against in 247 minutes of even strength ice time and DD was on for 6 GA in in 259 minutes of ice time.

        Perhaps DD should have been given more defensive zone starts ?

        WHy not look at Lars Eller, who also had a high percentage of defensive zone starts. he was on for only 10 goals against in 250 minutes compared to Plekanec 16 GA in 264 minutes.

        The fact is that Plekanec was NOT good defensively in the playoffs, and anyone watching the games should have recognized this, especially the coaching staff. the fact that he (Plekanec) continued to get so many defensive zone starts is just another example of bad ice time distribution.

        regards,

        Steve O.

      • boing007 says:

        DD took faceoffs in his own end many times and lost most of them.

        Richard R

    • Forum Dog says:

      Personally I don’t think Plekanec was great defensively this post-season. He is a good penalty killer, where speed and smarts help him defend passing lanes and take advantage of the extra ice. But 5-on-5 he is a bit too soft in the defensive zone to be much of a deterrent in the slot area. And I do think that DD competed harder than Plekanec did, which goes a long way on both sides of the puck.

      Having said that, Plekanec did get a lot of the hard assignments, and his wingers were not all that strong. If you’re playing in your own zone most of the time, you’re gonna pile up the minuses.

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        It’s difficult to pinpoint 1 player as the NHL is all about a 5 man unit and some good goaltending.

        Also something about familiarity and tendencies of line mates.
        No one can say that Plex has had stable linemates over the years.

        • Forum Dog says:

          It’s true. Plekanec is a solid all around player who would probably perform better if he had some more gifted wingers. Vrbata is available this summer, and if they decide to keep Plekanec he might be a good fit on the right side.

          Neither Gionta nor Plekanec are particularly creative off the rush, and they aren’t big and strong enough to cycle down low. Putting them out there together means that the mid-right side (or left if you’re the opposition) is ripe for the taking.

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      OK I have to admit it – this is good:

      “It doesn”t matter where the shift starts, it matters where it ends. In this case too many of Plekanec’s shifts ended with the puck in our net.”

      —–
      Moving. Forward.

      • Ozmodiar says:

        Yes, I laughed at that one too. :)

        I was going to post this:
        ———————————————————-
        This is where you went wrong:
        “It doesn”t matter where the shift starts, …”
        ———————————————————-

        Focusing on +/- stat, while saying zone starts have no impact. :lol:

    • ooder says:

      well there is a bit more to it, for example DD had more PP time and played with guys who can carry some offense.
      So naturally if you are on the ice with 67 and 11/20 then the puck is in the offensive zone more, while Pleks had gionta and bournival. Neither really contribute offensively

    • CH Marshall says:

      I only remember Pleks winning a face off once- which led to a game winning goal in Game 1 vs Boston I believe… But otherwise, I just had an ingrained mental picture of him losing his draws

    • Garbo says:

      I think it is easy in retrospect to go back and find statistics to support whaveter you want to say.

      There are likely just as many stats that support the good decisions made by Therrien, if anyone cared enough to look… I certainly don’t.

      Therrien did great things with the fourth line. Therrien got so much out of Bourque that no one thought possible. Need I mention the decision to play Tokarski over Budaj? Not many would have done that.

      The points you have been raising are certainly valid analysis after the fact, but I do not think it paints a fair and unbiased picture that accurately reflects Therrien, because you deliberately ignore the stats that support the good things he did.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Zone starts aren’t necessarily an indication of the coach’s beliefs about which player is better at offence or defence, but also an indication of the philosophy, the strategy a team employs.

      For years, the Sedin brothers would get offensive zone starts almost exclusively. The reasoning by Alain Vigneault was that they’re the likeliest combo to score a goal, so let’s give them a head start by starting with the puck near the opposition net. Conversely, let’s not tire them out in their own zone slugging it out, blocking shots, they’re ill-suited for that, it’s like using a chef’s knife for tin work. And it worked, they were consistently among the top scorers in the league.

      Flash forward to this season, when John Tortorella felt that everyone should play defence and block shots, everyone should take a bite of the sandwich, and that the Sedins are his best players, why not use them to gain possession in their own zone and skate it out, use them to prevent goals also.

      Of course, the Sedins and most Canucks went on to have their most difficult season in a long while, and Mr. Tortorella was fired one year into a five-year contract as a result.

      So for someone to just look at the zone starts for Canucks from last year to this one to draw conclusions on a player’s aptitude for certain facets of the game, without knowing the régime change that occurred there, will be misleading.

    • Loop_Garoo says:

      Actually, it doesn’t prove that at all. It proves that Pleks had more difficult assignements, as he always does. Desharnais had a great playoffs and did a decent job defensively, and Pleks was not quite as good as he can be, but Pleks is still the far better defensive centre, and was for these playoffs too.

  51. bandaide says:

    You know what we needed in Ny series some MOAR of this ….we had the weapon too…..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RRcMxA9zqs

  52. boing007 says:

    Youppi looks better in a Rangers uniform. More color coordinated. Send him to the Big Apple where he can live out his retirement.

    Richard R

  53. Maritime Ronn says:

    Some talk on the other page about Budaj or Tokarski, yet sometimes the CBA and Business of Hockey also play factors and gets in the way – things such as Cap Hits and Salary and Waivers.

    Budaj:
    1 year left before UFA
    Cap Hit: $1.4M
    NHL or AHL Salary: $1.4M

    Tokarski:
    2 years left before remaining an RFA for 2016-17.
    Cap Hit in NHL: $ 562,500 for the next 2 years
    2014-15 Salary: NHL- $550K. AHL-$135K
    2015-16 Salary: NHL/AHL- $575K

    Waivers:
    If Budaj cleared waivers, the Habs would have to pay his full $1.4M Salary in Hamilton.
    The Habs would also be stuck with a Cap Hit of $475K as the only relief for a contract ‘Buried’ in the AHL is this formula named the Wade Redden Rule: ( Cap Hit – $925K)

    Tokarski: If put on waivers, he would be picked up in a heart beat because of a very friendly contract both Cap and Salary wise.

    Budaj may also not be a desired pick up in waivers.
    Many teams refuse to pay their backups close to $1.5M

    There are also a few other CBA issues when claiming a player.

    13.20 (a) The Club acquiring a Player by Waiver claim shall take an Assignment of payers SPC.

    (b) A Player who has been acquired by Waiver claim shall not be Traded to another Club until the termination of Playoffs of the season in which he was acquired unless he is first offered on the same terms to the Club(s) that entered a claim when Waivers were requested originally and the offer has been refused.

    Trade one of them?
    There would be very little return for either, and if Budaj was the one to go, the Habs may have to retain some salary or pick up an undesired prospect costing the other team some money.

  54. Forum Dog says:

    Saw some earlier posts re: Vancouver fans and trade proposals. Just curious if anyone here would be interested in Alexandre Burrows. LW with a lot of sandpaper. Good skater, hard on the forecheck, and can score some goals as well. Would be a great compliment on the left side, and makes $4.5 for the next three seasons. Him, Pacioretty and Bourque as the top 3 LW would be pretty good I think.

    Not sure what it would take, but Vancouver has a few holes to fill, especially at centre.

    • Savardian Spin-o-rama says:

      Too old and too expensive. Besides, we need right wingers more than left.

      ~~ You’ve been spun ~~

      • Marc10 says:

        And needs healthy Sedins to produce…

        • Forum Dog says:

          How about a healthy Galchenyuk? Would that work?

          • Marc10 says:

            Nah. He’s lost a step. If I thought he could get back to scoring 25 and being a pain the neck, I’d trade him for Gorges. But with Josh at least we know what we’re getting…

            This guy has Jonathan Cheechoo light written all over him…

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        Also, not paticularly fond of carnivores.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxmZWIX0278

        • Forum Dog says:

          Doesn’t excuse it, but if someone tries to jam their thumb/finger in my mouth, I might be chomping down as well.

          I get that he is not the most loved player and that he is starting to get up there, but I think he is the type of winger the Habs need. Their forecheck was not good all season (including the playoffs) and a player like Burrows would help (just as Weise did). I don’t really care if its Burrows, but I think they need to find someone like that who can skate on the top two lines.

          • D Mex says:

            Burrows is a nicely packaged agitator who can’t / doesn’t back up his own BS.

            Ryan White more than addresses anything Burrows is perceived to bring to the table, and he’s younger to boot.

            ALWAYS Habs –
            D Mex

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Alex Burrows is a gamer, and he carved out a nice career and did very well for himself by being the best of a bad lot on the right wing of the Sedins. Good for him. Drop him off that line though, or off the Ryan Kesler line, and he’s underwhelming.

      Another factor is his injury history. He’s played a very physical game to this point, and the damage is piling up. Last season he had a really tough year, we’d be buying very low.

      The Canucks rumours centre around Ryan Kesler not because they want to get rid of him, but because he’s a valuable piece that a lot of teams would pay dearly for, so a good kickstart to the rebuild. Players like David Booth though, or creaky veterans with long expensive contracts and NTC like Alex Burrows, you don’t hear about them in rumours, because the Canucks are resigned to the fact that they’re pretty much stuck with them.

      ———————————————————————–
      My sources are unreliable, but their info is fascinating.–Woody Paige

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  55. Luke says:

    @hbghab:

    On the previous page you asked where I got the draft year stats: http://www.hockeydb.com/

  56. Ian Cobb says:

    HELP!
    Updated fire fox. Now no spell check. How can I get it ?, dead meat without it!

    • Cal says:

      Hi Ian. Click on “Tools” at the top of the page. Then click on “Options”. A box will open. Look in the Box marked “General” and click on the little box marked “Check my spelling as I type. Then click the “OK” button below.

  57. Cal says:

    Ruck the Fangers! May their Cupless streak continue ad infinitum.

  58. 21AC says:

    Don’t want to see McDonagh win a cup before PK we’ll never hear the end of it, they’ll be all over BG about that trade.

  59. DipsyDoodler says:

    If you were betting on playoff series using only the Fenwick score of the last 20 games of the regular season you’d be rich.

    Travis Yost
    ‏@TravisHeHateMe
    Score-Adjusted Fenwick% last twenty now 10-3 picking winners this postseason, and 71-31 since 2007. Likes LA out West.

    —–
    Moving. Forward.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      10-3? An odd number? How can that be, there has been an even number of series, 14 by my count. Was one a dead-heat, too close to call?

  60. Ian Cobb says:

    Not sure who to cheer for ?..L.A. or Rangers.
    Maybe Rangers, because they beat us, making us the 3rd best. Instead of 4th best! Some logic ah!

    Should be a great series, both teams very talented. But I give L.A. the better goal tender and more muscle.!

  61. 21AC says:

    some vets are ok to keep, but we have to move forward with our youth if we’re ever gonna win a cup. yes they’ll make mistakes so does the vets. If they are good enough why hold them back to keep a player past his time.

  62. montreal ace says:

    The first and biggest decision facing the Habs and MB, is PK’s contract. The who stays and who goes is going, will be based on that decision.

  63. habsfan0 says:

    It looks like the Laffs might be making a play for the #1 pick at this year’s entry draft in Philly.

    Rumoured to be headed the Panthers’ way are the Laffs #8 pick,the Human Pylon,and Kadri.

  64. chanchilla says:

    So apparently grabovski just signed with some soccer team in Belarus


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