Profs give Therrien passing grade

therrien
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Morton Weinfeld and Avi Goldberg – who teach sociology at McGill University and Vanier College, respectively – are avid Canadiens fans.
This does not set them apart from the gen pop in Montreal.
But Weinfeld and Goldberg have applied their academic training to a preliminary assessment of how Michel Therrien may fare as coach of the Canadiens.
Their paper, reproduced here with the professors’ permission, is titled:

Pondering the Permutations of Therrien 2.0.

With As The Habs World Turns set to break for the offseason, fans and pundits have expressed polarized responses to rookie GM/Director Marc Bergevin’s cliffhanger decision to hire Michel Therrien to coach the Canadiens.  While some are willing to give Therrien a chance, others expect his second stint to be no better than his first.  To provide a dispassionate perspective as the free agent frenzy continues on the slow fade to summer, we used a “moneypuck” inspired approach to assess the coach’s potential.

This past season, over-achieving coaches like Dave Tippett (Phoenix), Barry Trotz (Nashville), and Kevin Dineen (Florida) got the most out of their players and brought teams not considered to be outstanding on paper to the playoffs.  By contrast, an under-achieving coach like Terry Murray (LA) presided over a team that failed to live up to its potential, and was replaced by Darryl Sutter whose success requires no chronicling for championship-starved followers of the bleu, blanc, et rouge.  Like all fans, we wonder where Therrien will fall in relation to these trends.

Successful over-achieving coaches must motivate their players, as individuals and as a team, prepare strategies for the season (systems and lines), and develop tactics suited to the specific challenges offered by each opponent.  Fighting off the visceral temptation to join the doubters, we pondered over how we could use our sociological expertise to make a fair and systematic prediction about how Therrien will stack up the second time around.

Effective strategic and tactical preparation is premised upon making realistic assessments of a team’s talent.  When Therrien used his opening press conference to evaluate his new players, we decided to use some statistical data to test his claims.  Among other possibilities, overly generous or naïve remarks by the coach could be seen as indicating poor talent assessment skills.  They would also provide credibility to the fear that a pathway had been cleared towards a redux of Therrien 1.0.

Therrien identified the first line (Desharnais, Cole, Pacioretty), the goalie (Carey Price), the young defenseman (PK Subban), and the second line centre (Tomas Plekanec) as highly talented core players with whom he was ready to work to ensure that the 15th place finish would be an aberration.  We compared statistics of these players with equivalent players from the 16 teams that qualified for the playoffs this past season, focusing specifically on the final four.  To our surprise, the results yield promise for Therrien 2.0.

All statistics in our analysis were taken from Nhl.com.  To put together data on first and second lines, we located records of game-day team lineups from this year’s playoffs and compared them with records of team lineups from the second half of the regular season.  Considering factors like injuries during the season and line rotation adjustments for match-ups, we assembled first and second line combinations for each team in our sample that we considered to be representative of what the teams used, or intended to use, for the 2011-2012 NHL season.

Compared to the playoff teams, only five team’s first lines (Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, San Jose, Boston, and LA) scored more points than the Habs first trio during the regular season.  Twelve of the sixteen playoff teams did NOT rely on placing their top three point getters on their first line as the Habs did this past season.  Though Therrien got this one right, the numbers also confirm the widely held view that the relative strength of the Habs first line masked an overall lack of offensive depth.

Carey Price tied for 12th out of all goalies in regular season wins.  Among the highest winning goalies, Price tied for 13th in save percentage.  Goalies from three final four playoff teams (Jonathan Quick, Mike Smith, and Henrik Lundqvist) finished in the top five in both regular season wins and save percentage.  As Therrien suggested recently, there is room for improvement.  The numbers also suggest that many pundits and fans are right to believe that Price has the potential to be an elite goalie.

Compared to the top regular season scoring defensemen on playoff teams, Subban tied for 14th.  This solid if less than spectacular result is put into perspective by noting that six out of the playoff teams (including LA and New Jersey) had their top scoring defensemen finish out of the top10 in regular season points for defensemen.  In comparison with the top scoring defensemen on playoff teams, Subban’s +/- rating of 9 during the regular season put him in 8th place.  This is the highest result for a non-playoff team’s defenseman in this category.  The numbers suggest that Subban clearly has the potential to be an anchor on the Habs back end.

Finally, compared to second line centres on playoff teams, Plekanec finished 6th in points during the regular season.  Of the final four playoff teams, only New Jersey’s second line centre (Patrick Elias) scored more points. On the other hand, Plekanec ranked last in +/- compared to playoff team second line centres.  While the numbers show that Therrien has work to do to help Plekanec realize his offensive AND defensive potential, this depends both on the player having an effective supporting cast and on improved team defense.

The numbers show Therrien’s talent assessment skills to be quite sound.  But, and interpreting the meaning of the numbers differently, in systematically confirming that Therrien demonstrated good judgment in his decision to parrot the conventional wisdom on the team’s strengths, we have still left a tough question about last year’s Habs unanswered:  Did a 15th place team with a solid core of players reveal a coaching regime that had no clue or did it reek of other deficiencies that not even a Toe Bake, Scotty Bowman, or Jacques Lemaire could overcome on his own?

Regardless of how one interprets the numbers, what can anyone fairly predict at this time about whether Therrien can take this core, develop it and the other players, and get them to over-achieve?

A sociologist would argue that there are many variables that determine coaching success, but no scholarly training is needed to safely predict that Therrien cannot act alone.  All loyal fans of a team with a painful recent history of poor trades and ineptitude in retaining or developing its homegrown talent know that Bergevin and his impressive-on-paper team have a key role to play.  So, as barbecue season heats up, we hope that this exercise reminds all fans, and especially the coach’s doubters, that it is at least as important to pray that Bergevin can channel an inner Kenny Holland (or Dean Lombardi!) as it is to agonize over whether it’s within the realm of possibility that Therrien’s hiatus has given him what he needs to channel an inner Darryl Sutter.

1,002 Comments

  1. HFX-HabFan says:

    Carle close to signing with Tampa Bay, whom he played 12 games for at the start of the ’08-’09 season.

  2. frontenac1 says:

    Millionaires fighting Billionaires.”She got the Goldmine and I (the fan) got the Shaft.” (Jerry Reed)

  3. Phil C says:

    According to capgeek, the Habs currently have 17 forwards under contract (or at least qualified) for next year. That means at least three of them will start the season elsewhere, and that’s if they don’t sign anymore free agents. if someone like Gallagher makes the team, he will displace another player.

    The only one for sure who is exempt waivers is Leblanc. I believe Palushaj is waiver exempt as well. But I think Blunden and Geoffrion will have to clear waivers to be sent down. Can anyone more knowledgeable on waiver rules confirm this?

    • HabFab says:

      Go here, down the left side until Waivers then click;
      http://habsprospects.hockeyhq.net/

      • Phil C says:

        Thanks, so Geoffrion is exempt waivers unless he plays three games. I suspect that Leblanc and Geoffrion will start the season in Hamilton unless they have an amazing camp. Signing Blunden to a two-way seems to indicate that they think Blunden would make it through waivers. That still means one more person would have to move unless they carry 14 forwards. There will definitely be some wheeling and dealing before the summer is out, especially if the Habs pick up another UFA forward.

    • wjc says:

      Tell capgeek to shove his fukn cap where the sun don’t shine. I am sick of cap talk….and spending money, like it was coming out of your bank account.

      Sick of people thinking 3 years down the road and projecting cap room.

      Sick of stupid trades, and people’s unnamed sources, where were your sources when Minnesota was making that deal.

      wjc

      • RGM says:

        You talk a lot without saying anything.

        ———————–
        GO HABS GO! Maybe 2012-13 will be our year!
        “Scott Gomez is an elite NHL player” – VancouverHab

        Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

      • Rozz says:

        Wow Wilfred, that’s quite the freak out there. But I would like to draw you back to a comment you made about people who watch AC and then come on here and complain… you suggested that they not watch the show because it will never change, and by watching it you’re only empowering them to keep up the show in the first place.

        Here is a good place where you should take your own advice, and if you sick of all those things I suggest you stop coming around cause that is the exact subject matter that gets discussed on here all the time, and it’s not likely to change any time soon.

        I mean we’re all sick your Gomez cheerleading and condescending attitude towards us for just point out the proven fact that for the last few years he has plummeted from a useful player into a waste of a roster space..

        But i have a sneaking suspicion you will keep coming back for more and more as i suspect that you are some sort of masochistic who enjoys the (justifiably) negative responses you bring upon your self.

        “When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.”

        Mark Twain.

      • boing007 says:

        Soon Capology will be a required course for budding CPAs. People will be studying Capology theory at University. Discussing it ad nauseum in the Quad.

        Richard R
        Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  4. Psycho29 says:

    When I read the headline I thought it was Prof Bertrand Raymond and Prof Michel Bergeron who gave him a passing grade….

    ;-)

  5. frontenac1 says:

    I live in Black Bear country.The Mrs. Came face to face with one about 15yrs ago with my son and his cub scout troop. She was so scared she yelled at it the way she sometimes yells at me.The bear took off. You have to understand she is half Irish and Half Newfie and grew up in Montreal.I don’t think that would work on those nasty Grizzlies out west. Be very careful out there Amigos.Hola!

  6. Mavid says:

    99 days…and don’t rain on my parade talking about a lockout..

  7. neutral says:

    There’s some on here right now that don’t seem to care one way or the other if the habs make the playoffs or not. write their names down and see if they feel the same come January 2013. not likely.
    it’ll be fire this one. trade this one. try these lines. I can see it all now
    Therrien is a moron and on and on can’t wait…..

    • HardHabits says:

      Nice prediction.

      That’s like saying the sun will set in the west if it rained tomorrow night. Guess what? It will set in the west without a cloud in the sky too.

      In other words. People will bitch and moan even if the Habs are in contention at that time.

      • Bill J says:

        People will bitch & moan even if the Habs win a Cup!

        This place truly has Habs fans of EVERY variety.


        #OperationGomezTirePump
        #OperationSubbanDeflatedSalaryExpectations

        Tweet it, talk about it. Let’s get rid of Gomez and sign Subban for cheap!
        Go Habs Go!

    • wjc says:

      Wanna make the playoffs….then you need Gomez….why can’t you people see this….why????

      wjc

      • Rozz says:

        16 teams made it to the show with out him just fine … why cant you see he sucks now?

        “When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.”

        Mark Twain.

  8. Strummer says:

    The Parise contract is heavily front-loaded – with just a million per year on the last 2 years,

    Can someone explain why NJ ha dtheir knuckles rapped for doing the same thing with Kovalchuk?

    ______________________________________________________
    “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

    • commandant says:

      The NHL ruling was that you can only do this up to the age of 40 on July 1st of the last season the player is signed for.

      Kovalchuk’s first contract went til he was 44.

      The ruling was bullshit because the 40 year old rule was never written anywhere until after the fact.

      Go Habs Go!
      NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
      Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • wjc says:

      front loaded, back loaded….who cares? Well, you do apparently, give it a rest….what possible difference does it make?

      wjc

      • pottymonster says:

        in a salary cap world, you need to take these things into consideration regarding the makeup of your team in the future. commit too much money to one player and you can’t sign another player.

        but i suspect you have, at best, a very rudimentary understanding of these matters.

  9. Sir.Plekers says:

    I dont give therrien a passing grade.
    SIR PLEKERS

    • Ian Cobb says:

      Marc!

      Our 6th annual 2012 HIO Fan Summit is, Oct 27th weekend.

      All game tickets (two levels) $90 and $110 are available from me for a very short time period. Price includes game ticket, Hall of Fame ticket and a ticket for the draw at the charity raffle.

      Act now so as not to miss out on our annual great HIO Community Fan weekend.! Do not forget to enclose a self addressed and stamp envelop with your money order.

      ITINERARY & LOCATIONS
      We are staying at the Novotel hotel, discount rates at 866-861-6112 Tell them you are with HIO to get your discount.

      We will all meet and greet at Hurley’s pub Friday eve. on Crescent St.
      Some of us will be having supper there, and name tags will be given out.
      Everyone is welcome to join us. Ware you team colors! and enjoy the evening.

      Saturday morning, breakfast is at Chez Cora’s at 8 or 8:30am. 1240 Drummond St.
      You can order a la cart and everyone gets 15% discount off your bill.

      After breakfast we walk over to the Bell Center for the Hall of Fame Tour
      .
      At 3pm the Montreal Canadiens Children’s Foundation charity raffle at the Baton Rouge restaurant 1050 Mountain St.
      Each person is asked to bring one gift item to donate for the charity raffle, so everyone gets a gift to go home with. After this years fund raiser, we will have donated over $10,000 to Children’s Charities, since our 1st Summit in 2007. What a wonderful HIO Family we are folks.

      Then our Baton Rouge restaurant pre game dinner. With special guests.

      After that we walk across the street to the Duck’s and Hab’s game.

      After the game the 2nd floor of Hurley’s pub is reserved for us again, to celebrate the win. Anyone may join us, just identify yourself as a HIO member.

      Please be generous with your charity raffle gifts and your purchase of raffle tickets. It is a way for the HIO community to give back to less fortunate kids.

      Come and enjoy talking hockey and meeting your wonderful HIO community at this years Summit.
      See ya there.

      Ian Cobb
      HIO Fan Summit Organizer (613-968-9807) if you need anything.

      For Summit tickets, News, Pictures and comments
      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Montreal-Canadiens-We-Are-Fans-Summit/197390760316125

  10. Ian Cobb says:

    50 HIO, Hab game Summit tickets paid for already boys and girls. Great work.
    Furthest summiteer’s so far this year are coming from Seattle Wash.

    For Oct 27th. 2012 Summit tickets, News, Pictures and comments
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Montreal-Canadiens-We-Are-Fans-Summit/197390760316125

  11. HabinBurlington says:

    Any chance that Minnesota now becomes a team which Nash is willing to go to? Heatley, Harding and either prospect (Granlund/Coyle) or a 1st round pick for Nash, and whatever else is necessary (Brassard, Mason etc…)

  12. Mattyleg says:

    Flyers apparently honing in on Bruno Gervais…

    … and “Honest” Al Montoya looks to be heading Jets-ward.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  13. frontenac1 says:

    So,the eggheads like Mike? Who cares as long as they bring back some toughness and Fear! Man, I remember those Habs teams from the seventies.Do you think Big Bird,Bouchard,Nilan etc would let what we have witnessed in the last few years stand?No way Jose.We’ve got enough “Skill” on D. Bring in a Big,Nasty,partly Psycho D man and for the love of mike ,get rid of those Swiss guys and Kaberle! Restore some respect on the ice! Oh yeah, when Gomez was snickering on the bench during that Boston Beatdown,who on the team dealt with him? There I said it Amigos, my ten second rant. Hola!

  14. wjc says:

    Where did Boone come up with that picture of Therien.

    I am sure he could have found a more unflatering picture. I mean really his hand is over his mouth and they choose this. Should snap a picture of some journalist picking his nose.

    wjc

    • Mattyleg says:

      I think it’s supposed to make him look pensive and scholarly, you know, to go with the article.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • boing007 says:

        He’s just holding back on some salty words. Or, he’s wondering what his wife will be cooking for supper.

        Richard R
        Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  15. HardHabits says:

    They should just do like in the NFL. You show up to camp out of shape or unworthy of your contract and it’s “see you later”. No money. No cap hit. Contract is null and void. Move on.

    • Mattyleg says:

      What would Guidoune do then?
      He needs at least until December to get into shape (if his groin hasn’t burst under the strain, that is…)!

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • commandant says:

        Its wonderful that NFL players are treated like commodities. Injured and you can’t play? CUT, no money for you, sorry about your luck.

        Go Habs Go!
        NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
        Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • HabinBurlington says:

          The NFL has their shortfalls, but it isn’t like these guys make chump change when they play. Problem is we now compare NFL salaries to other sports guaranteed contracts. Why not compare the NFL contracts to what we make in our day to day lives. If I as a straight commisioned sales rep don’t produce I don’t get paid.

          I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone who makes north of 500K a year, after having been offered a free education at some of the finer schools in America on the way to that contract.

          NBA, NHL, MLB and NBA contracts are completely out of control. I am not saying owners can’t afford it, but the pay is just flat out ridiculous in my estimation.

          • commandant says:

            NFL players have very short careers and walk away from the sport with life altering injuries. They put their bodies, their careers, and even their lives on the line to make this money for a very short period of time. I find it disgusting that a player like Kevin Everett who was nearly paralyzed playing the game, doesn’t get paid the rest of his contract.

            Go Habs Go!
            NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
            Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
            http://lastwordonsports.com/

          • HardHabits says:

            That is what insurance is for. Or universal health care.

            There are risks. The higher the risk the higher the reward. If not. Then take a much, much lower salary and have guaranteed health care whether you get hurt or not.

            Sounds like cake and eating it too going on.

          • JF says:

            Agreed. It boggles the mind to think what the players do with all these millions, why 2 or 3 are not enough but they need 4 or 5 (or today 7.5) And for the ordinary fan, the idea of all these millionaires fighting over the profits of a multi-billion dollar business is nothing short of disgusting.

          • habstrinifan says:

            Have to agree with Commandant on this one HabInBurlington.It is an absolute disgrace the way the richest league treats its players and with almost complete apathy from the fans.

            I think if NHL players were treated the same way, the fans would be saying something about it.

            And yes the standards have to be other sports leagues… not the average working stiff.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Evidently the standards don’t have to be other sports leagues because the NFL still is the biggest sport in North America and players line up to play.

            If there is an athlete I have empathy for it is the CFL player. Don’t get me wrong the NFL treats players like commodities, but I was raised to know how to stand up for myself. There will always be wrongdoings in all private and unionized environments, but no one is forced to play.

            The hockey players of the early years had it very rough, they stood up for themselves. The fact the NFL players union has never figured out to represent themselves with a real leader and be united is their issue to figure out.

            I can think of far more American people who have far less care given to them in their workplace who will receive my empathy.

      • boing007 says:

        Are there any purveyors of poutine in Ottawa? If so, then the Senators might have to put a chip in Guidoune’s forehead. Every time he crosses the threshold of a poutine establishment an alarm will go off.

        Richard R
        Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

    • Rozz says:

      hells ya! I’d be ok with that method of handling things

      “When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.”

      Mark Twain.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Unless you are the star running back, quarterback, receiver or linebacker or lineman who got bonus in his contract.

      Overall still prefer the NFL contract, but the stars of the NFL get a big chunk of money up front as well.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Completely disagree, especially now that all the concussion research is coming out. How many players had ‘off-years’ because of undiagnosed brain injuries, who just gritted their teeth and played through it I often wonder.

      The injury-buyout is the worst thing the NFL does. Can’t play because your shoulder isn’t healing? Next!

      • HabinBurlington says:

        How different is our Junior Hockey System? How different is the CFL? I have a very close friend suffering terribly from concussions suffered in the CFL, none of those players ever received the money the NFL players received. Again I will repeat myself, I am not saying the NFL is doing it right (we know otherwise) but these players do get paid well when they make the team. I am beyond understanding why the players cannot unite themselves and properly fight the league to get what they need. Instead I see a whole new crop of players that while they are making hay, don’t give a rats ass about the players before them.

      • HardHabits says:

        I didn’t say injured out. I said out of shape or unable to play the game at the level that the rest of the major league is playing. For injuries, there at the very least should be a health care and insurance system that either the players or a combination of the players and the teams pay into.

        In the case of a contract annulment, there could be a clause that allows the team and the player to negotiate a severance/retirement package that is off the cap and call it a day.

        The cap was intended to level the playing field between the rich teams and the less rich ones but instead the rules are being circumvented via the front loading of contracts.

        My suggestion is a valid one. It doesn’t have to completely mimic the NFL. I have already suggested a few modifications and I have others to the CBA.

        I should have been a lawyer.

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          The problem becomes where do we draw the line? Does Alex Tanguay get cut and bought out when he refuses Bob Gainey’s request to suit up in the playoffs? Does your coach tell you when you’re ready to play, and if you don’t you’re bought out?

          No one plays in the NHL or NFL completely healthy, they’re all dealing with a bunch of nagging injuries and ailments that are never right. It’s a spectrum, it’s analog, not digital, you can put people in neat piles.

          A contract is a contract, and both parties have obligations, except in the NFL or with Canadian cellphone companies, where the obligations rest only on one party, while the other reaps huge profits.

  16. mike3131 says:

    The first thing that caught my eye when I logged in today was when I saw that 77% of HIO posters think we will make the playoffs next year with the current roster. Either 77% of the fans here are either overly optimistic or are wearing blinders. There is NO WAY that we make the playoffs with our current roster, ESPECIALLY our d-unit.
    I see no one on our D that can clear guys like Lucic and Hartnell away from the front of Carey. We just signed our franchise netminder to a long term deal. The least we can do for him is not let him get crashed and banged in the first 2 years of his contract. I admire Frankie Bouillon’s heart and grit, he will block shots, break up plays and dish big hits but will he be able to clear aggressive 6’4 forwards from the front of the net at 5’8? Oh yeah, he turns 37 in October. If Markov goes down, our D is almost as weak as that of the Islanders or Oilers.
    Similar to last year, who is going to score goals when Max, DD and Cole are off the ice? Right now, Bourque with his 5 G (Proj. 10 G in 82 GP) and his -16 is slotted in as the 2nd line LW and Colby Armstrong is no Andrei Kostitsyn (in terms of goal scoring).
    I am well aware of the fact that it is only July 4 and there is plenty of time, but MB still has a lot of work to do. We will be tougher to play against with Prust and Colby in the lineup, but a GOOD top-6 LW and a big, strong, Hal Gill-type d-man are REQUIRED in order to avoid a season like the last one. Unless MB made Bryan Allen an offer but he refused and opted for ANA, I still don’t understand why MB signed Bouillon instead of Allen. Yes, we are stacked with D prospects, but we still need that one veteran d-man for now in order not to rush Beaulieu, Tinordi and Ellis. Bryan Allen for 3 years at < $4 M/year would've been perfect. The Bryce Salvador ship has also sailed. I trust MB and his well-qualified group of management will make the right transactions in order to ice a competitive roster for the 2012-13 season, but they must react when there is a good move available at a low cost. They already passed up on several IMO.

    P.S. re. Therrien, he wasn't the best option at the time for HC, but he will be highly motivated by the fact that this may be his last chance to prove that he can coach in the NHL. He will work the guys hard.

    https://twitter.com/#!/mikelang35

    • HabFab says:

      Reason is returning slowly, was 79% last night.

    • wjc says:

      Lucic is sure inside your head.

      wjc

    • Mattyleg says:

      Nothing like a ‘realistic’ view to really get a person behind their team, eh?

      We would have made the playoffs last year if we hadn’t been completely gutted with injury.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • mike3131 says:

        I doubt that. Healthy Gionta wasn’t doing much, Ryan White wasn’t gonna score 20 goals, Campoli isn’t Erik Karlsson, and don’t even get me started about Gomez. In addition, we had the coaching dilemma, the Cammy situation, we traded good-guy Spacek for long term junk, our new european d-men took some time to adjust to the NHL, we couldn’t close out 2-goal lead, never mind win in the shootout, and we had the worst PP in the league. We a couple positives last year, but no we weren’t gonna make the playoffs.

        https://twitter.com/#!/mikelang35

        • Bill J says:

          Campoli may not be Erik Karlson.

          But a healthy Markov (who you neglected to mention) is much better then Campoli. Without mentioning, with Markov on the team. Campoli isn’t on the team. Nor is Kaberle! So double whammy punishment on that front.

          Injuries brought us Kaberle!


          #OperationGomezTirePump
          #OperationSubbanDeflatedSalaryExpectations

          Tweet it, talk about it. Let’s get rid of Gomez and sign Subban for cheap!
          Go Habs Go!

          • mike3131 says:

            And injuries and brain-dead thinking will make us stuck with Kaberle and his wasteful cap hit for the next 2 years!
            As for Markov, I doubt he will return to the same form as when he was selected for the ASG, but, if healthy, he will definitely contribute on the PP, rack up assists and play on the 2nd PK wave. But what he won’t do is match up well against big forwards and clear the front of the net – the main issue I am raising.

            https://twitter.com/#!/mikelang35

  17. commandant says:

    My story on the Wild’s big signings.

    http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/07/04/zach-parise-and-ryan-suter-take-their-talents-to-minnesota/

    Go Habs Go!
    NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
    Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • habstrinifan says:

      When the Wilds drafted Dumba I posted that Minnesota needed a face, someone to awake excitement in that franchise and that Dumba could do it. He seemed destined to be a ‘fan favourite’ and photogenic etc.

      Little did I know!

      Suddenly even Sport Illlustrated is talking Minnesota Wild Hockey.

      It’s good for the NHL. I dont think Bettman will ‘question’ the contracts.

    • HabFab says:

      Sean Bonjovi will be pissed at you! You left out his man Zach Phillips ;)

      • commandant says:

        I’ll make sure to put him in…. he’s not the super stud of Coyle and Granlund though.

        Go Habs Go!
        NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
        Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • HabFab says:

          Just teasing amigo however saw them play twice live this year and thought Phillips made Coyle better not vice versa but I’m no expert.

          • commandant says:

            I like Phillips, but the question is will he be a second liner or third liner in the NHL.

            Coyle and Granlund both have a higher ceiling.

            Still if Zach Phillips is your 5th best prospect, you are doing something right.

            Go Habs Go!
            NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
            Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
            http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • Sean Bonjovi says:

          > Charlie Coyle!!!

          • HabFab says:

            Last time I go to bat for you…flip flopper ;)

          • Sean Bonjovi says:

            Can’t trust anybody eh!? ; )

            That’s actually a photo of Zach Phillips, then the “greater than” symbol, then the name Charlie Coyle.
            It’s meant to imply than Zach Phillips is greater than Charlie Coyle, but it’s also meant to read a little tricky, what with the arrow and such.

            I have a Strong Bias towards players from my part of New Brunswick, but I will say that, even though Coyle choked and stunk it up at the memorial, anybody with his size and his skills has the potential to become a better NHL hockey player than Zach Phillips at his full potential. I think Zach Phillips will be a bigger, better version of David Desharnais, and that would make him a damn good NHLer.

            PS Zach Phillips is exactly the kind of player the Maple Leafs need and my biggest fear last summer was that the Leaf would pick him, but thankfully they passed on him twice.

  18. habstrinifan says:

    I googled the agents for zach parise… wade arnott AND the agent for ryan suter… neil sheehy.

    I think it’s kinda surprising that both players didnt have the same agent. I wonder how the ‘collaboration’ came about.

    • HabFab says:

      They played together in University…guess what undrafted player was top scorer on the team?
      Hint; plays for Habs now

    • ont fan says:

      They had been talking all year about signing together. They needed a team that was interested and agreed to sign the same contracts ahead of time. They had been talking to each other the last few days constantly. Parise said he would have signed with NJ if it didn’t happen.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        If I am Poile I feel like I was used. So Suter says all the nice things about how great Poile was, and he strung Nashville along all year they had a chance to resign him. Then you hear Parise say, yah we have been talking for a year about playing somewhere together. Pretty obvious Nashville was never going to sign both Parise and Suter.

        There is no way Poile can not trade Weber, and he needs to do in offseason, because he won’t get enough back at trade deadline.

        But then again, didn’t all of us see this coming that Nashville couldn’t resign Suter, so perhaps Poile magic wand is worn out. He needed to see this coming.

        • ont fan says:

          Poile was just interviewed. Suter said he was still in the running. Then he signed with the Wild, not even giving him a chance to match or exceed. He was ticked.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            I felt bad for Poile when he used Gill and Gaustad resigning as proof that players do want to play in Nashville. Grasping at straws, Gaustad he paid a ton for and who else was offering Gill two years. Just a couple weeks ago Gill was hoping to just get an offer!

      • habstrinifan says:

        Still amazed.. the contracts are identical.

  19. HabFab says:

    https://twitter.com/PKSubban1/status/220647438933954560/photo/1

    A young kid from the Sick Kids Hospital that PK has developed a rep-or with.

  20. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …to Me, the Suter and Parise signings by Minnesota is one of the better recent ‘feel good’ stories of hockey
    …with the Shultz signing in Edmonton
    …so often, the motivations are ‘the glitz’ of sun, surf, babes and moolah
    …well, I guess, it’s still ‘moolah’, but at least they increasingly seem to want to find ways to play with their boyhood and hometown teams
    …this is what fans need more of
    …so, good for Parise & Suter

    Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049

  21. ont fan says:

    I’m watching TSN. They were showing the break down of the Suter, Parise contracts. 12m each the first 2 years and 11 the 3rd year. 9 m after that. Seems reasonable compared to the outrageous Price contract. Yikes. Poile sure is unhappy with Suter.

  22. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …I’m out here camping in God’s Country with My 2 Kids, surrounded by soaring white-capped mountains and laying beside a wide flowing river …it’s hues of blue only God Himself could conceive
    …I wake inspired to check-in through the mystery of Wi-Fi on My Hab-itual ‘need’ to keep abreast of WHAT ??? is new and insightful on all-things Habs on HIO
    …log-in to find a new Boone header reading ‘Profs Give Therrien Passing Grade’ …hmmm, I thought to Myself, an ‘educated’ argument to convince Me to turn-around My hardened perception that Michel Therrien was a second-rate choice nose-picker as Our Coach
    …well, here is The Booner, Himself, describing respectively that these 2 professorial pedantics would provide Their rationalizations that Michel Therrien will indeed be the Cat’s Meow and indeed HAS the wherewithal to bring Us to The Promised Land
    …and I politely read it, …as I take for granted The Booner expected Me to do, here by this glorious river …in the shade of a towering Douglas Fir
    …and, …I re-read Weinfeld’s and Goldberg’s Therrien Treatise …to make sure I had not missed the intellectual nuggets of insight I seemed to have completely missed the first go-round
    …but, found it as vapid and inconsequential the second time-around as the first
    …Boone, I know it is summer, and You have a lot of things on Your mind these days …but, come-on !!!
    …this kind of stuff belongs in the Comments section, not featured on Your blog
    …I feel Berkeshirized …and I’m going to go jump in this river until I wash it off

    _________________________________________________________
    Michel F.Therrien ???: HIS’ new Official Habs’ Fan Theme Song; Morrissey/The Smiths ‘Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Now': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfkvPnjb9hs

    _________________________________________________________
    Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049

    • Ian Cobb says:

      You are very descriptive Chris! Enjoy the outdoors my friend!

    • HabFab says:

      Be careful buddy, the river waters in the mountains will still be darn cold! Guys our age don’t need heart attacks…enjoy your vacation ;)

      • habstrinifan says:

        Never mind heart-attack! Habitant In Surrey is as fit as Scott Gomez is trying to be.

        It’s the shrinkage factor that Habitant in Surrey is worried about.

      • Habitant in Surrey says:

        …thanks Frank
        …We had a big brown bear laying 20 feet from the front of Our tent, chewing on a salmon last night
        …worried I was going to lose all My peanut butter & jelly sandwiches …put on My Ranger Smith hat, and talked him out of it :)

        Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
        http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049

        • habstrinifan says:

          Is this for real.. the bear I mean?

        • Kristopher7 says:

          I do hope you were joking about the bear, and if not, promptly left the area with your family. I’ve spent my fair share of time in God’s Country, and real bears are very dangerous.

          How did you get Wi-fi, though? That part confuses me in the utmost.

          Anyways, take care and have fun out there. I love the outdoors!

          • Rozz says:

            Yes they definitely they can be if provoked… but at the same time they are not as bad as everyone thinks.
            When I first moved here I was out on an organic farm and leaning against a big tree down on the river’s edge relaxing and getting some shade while I played some tunes on my guitar and had a smoke… Completely unaware of the big black bear hanging above my head in the tree (don’t ask me how i didn’t notice before I set up under that particular tree).
            But I sat there for about half an hour and it just sat up there with me completely unaware until my G/F at the time came out to see me and promptly started to freak out. It didn’t even try to come down until I moved away and then in came down and ran away. that was just the first of several encounters i had that first year.
            But then again the bears I encountered probably were a lil bit more used to people being not far from the city area.
            Also the type of bear it is plays a role in its aggression factor as well… Black bear… meh make some noise and it will run away
            Grizzly bear… Kiss your ass good bye lol

            “When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.”

            Mark Twain.

    • 24 Cups says:

      HS – You never miss a chance to take a swipe at Mike Boone – for what ever reason.

      The irony is that you could never come close to tying up his skates.

      Please let it go.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I hear your point on the complaints towards Boone, but I have to admit, the article provided me nothing of insight I haven’t figured out on my own.

        • 24 Cups says:

          There’s a long history here. I guess I just get worn down by it all, Gerald.

          Regardless, Mike Boone doesn’t need me to stick up for him or fight his battles in terms of certain individuals. It’s just that I sometimes have to draw a line in the sand (even if that makes me a bit of a target).

          More weight, please.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Understood Steve. I seem to resemble the nickname Burly, so if you need weight I got it, I don’t however move it around so quick!

    • Bripro says:

      I’m so envious… except for your complaining part.

    • Clay says:

      God???
      Don’t you mean Higgs/Boson?

      __________________________
      ☞ The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. ~ Richard Feynman ☜

    • Rozz says:

      I gotta say you spot on with your discrption.. I live a couple of hours away in kamloops and its the kind of day in BC that make you understand why people call it god’s country.

      Which is nice for a change cause the way its been raining and flooding all over BC lately its seemed more like God had left his country… Good to see him back lol

      “When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.”

      Mark Twain.

  23. Heisenberg_ says:

    If Mr. Therrien was in my chemistry class I’d give him no more than a D- (And he’d better not complain about it, if he knew what was good for him!)
    __________________________________________________________________
    “Never give up control. Live life on your own terms. Every life comes with a death sentence.”

  24. Ian Cobb says:

    Our 6th annual 2012 HIO Fan Summit is, Oct 27th weekend.

    All game tickets (two levels) $90 and $110 are available from me for a very short time period. Price includes game ticket, Hall of Fame ticket and a ticket for the draw at the charity raffle.

    Act now so as not to miss out on our annual great HIO Community Fan weekend.! Do not forget to enclose a self addressed and stamp envelop with your money order.

    ITINERARY & LOCATIONS
    We are staying at the Novotel hotel, discount rates at 866-861-6112 Tell them you are with HIO to get your discount.

    We will all meet and greet at Hurley’s pub Friday eve. on Crescent St.
    Some of us will be having supper there, and name tags will be given out.
    Everyone is welcome to join us. Ware you team colors! and enjoy the evening.

    Saturday morning, breakfast is at Chez Cora’s at 8 or 8:30am. 1240 Drummond St.
    You can order a la cart and everyone gets 15% discount off your bill.

    After breakfast we walk over to the Bell Center for the Hall of Fame Tour
    .
    At 3pm the Montreal Canadiens Children’s Foundation charity raffle at the Baton Rouge restaurant 1050 Mountain St.
    Each person is asked to bring one gift item to donate for the charity raffle, so everyone gets a gift to go home with. After this years fund raiser, we will have donated over $10,000 to Children’s Charities, since our 1st Summit in 2007. What a wonderful HIO Family we are folks.

    Then our Baton Rouge restaurant pre game dinner. With special guests.

    After that we walk across the street to the Duck’s and Hab’s game.

    After the game the 2nd floor of Hurley’s pub is reserved for us again, to celebrate the win. Anyone may join us, just identify yourself as a HIO member.

    Please be generous with your charity raffle gifts and your purchase of raffle tickets. It is a way for the HIO community to give back to less fortunate kids.

    Come and enjoy talking hockey and meeting your wonderful HIO community at this years Summit.
    See ya there.

    Ian Cobb
    HIO Fan Summit Organizer (613-968-9807) if you need anything.

    For Summit tickets, News, Pictures and comments
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Montreal-Canadiens-We-Are-Fans-Summit/197390760316125

  25. Bripro says:

    On a completely unrelated matter, anyone living in Montreal should seek shelter…RIGHT NOW! I don’t know if the storm is heading your way, but it’s golf balls…..I kid you not. Hail the size of golf balls.
    I can’t wait to see what my car looks like after this!

  26. Habzfan says:

    Over the last couple of weeks I’ve heard a lot of talk that Bobby Ryan may be available. I’ve also heard people say that a potential package from the Habs would be Paxcioretty plus prospects/draft picks. I personally think that would not be smart. Are there any people on this site who think trading Max as part of a package for Ryan could be a good move?

    • HabFab says:

      No and I don’t think they would accept Pleks as many here push.

    • Thomas Le Fan says:

      Trading Max’s 65 pts plus prospects/draft picks for Ryan’s 57 make sense to anyone? Not me.

    • Habilis says:

      You could argue that Ryan and Patches were on similar quality teams last season and both are big, physical players so I would say that the stats are telling:

      Ryan: 82GP 31G 26A 57PTS +1

      Patches: 79GP 33G 32A 65PTS +2

      Plus Max is 2 years younger.

      There is absolutely no way that MB would give up Patches plus anything for Ryan. Even straight up it’s a better deal for Anaheim.

    • steve17 says:

      I have heard that folks think Montreal should trade for him, but I have never heard Patches as being part of the trade. He would be an untouchable I would think, and it would defeat the purpose of the trade, to add a second line left winger to play behind Patches.
      I do think Pleks, Kristo and Weber could get it done. Through in Pulashaj and then get a 3rd round pick back. He is not Nash as good as he is.

      Habfan17

    • boing007 says:

      No, we want both of them. If possible.

      Richard R
      Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  27. neutral says:

    we all know by now you gotta have size and toughness. except for a couple we have achieved that. but if you want to be a winner. we need to add some scoring to that. Armstrong may help but that’s not enough. your 1st and 2nd line gotta be able to score the big goals. the 3rd line have to chip in and the 4th line bang and crash line has to score a few. the way the team is right now. scoring is still gonna be our problem and I don’t see us making the playoffs….

    • commandant says:

      While I agree whole heartedly, it is also July 4th not October

      Go Habs Go!
      NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
      Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • Mike D says:

      You gotta keep in mind that this is a transition year for the Habs. Trying to find short term solutions just for the sake of making the playoffs ruins the long-term potential of the team. IF we make the playoffs this year, great. Bonus. But I don’t want to jeopardize the future just for a few playoff games.

      It’s not the smart thing to do and that’s why MB only signed cheap players, two of which are on one year contracts.

      – Honestly yours
      Twitter: @de_benny

      • Sal from the Hammer says:

        My thoughts exactly. There are several bonified, up and coming young players, that are going to be cutting their teeth in the Hammer this year. Their development is crucial to the future continued long term success of the Habs. Anything, that jeopardizes that development is simply not worth it for short term gains…Therefore, if as stated, they make the playoffs this year with what they have, bonus. Run with it! If not, then patience with the younsters is imperative. I fthey miss again? Take the elevated draft pick and parlay it into another piece of the puzzle. We’ve waited this long, a few more years and this team could be contending for many, many years.

      • OneTimer says:

        Ah, Mike D. One of the good ones. Good post!

      • steve17 says:

        Bobby Ryan would not be a short term solution, he is only 26. He would be a good fit at 2nd line left wing, but not for a ton of players. Anahaeim has some very good wingers some of which should be ready to play this season. They can afford to move Ryan. As much as they have Koivu for one more season, moving him down to the 3rd line and having Pleks on the 2nd line would be good for them. They have some big tough wingers and defence. Pleks andKristo should really be enough. Having said that, there are some teams that will overpay.

        Habfan17

  28. SmartDog says:

    So let me get this right…. these guys used a bunch of comparison stats (not complicated at that) to show that our core players are our 3 top scorers from last year, Plekanec, Subban, and Price. And because this is who Therrien identified as being important, he gets a passing grade? My girlfriend could tell you these are the important players. My mother could tell you these are the important players. Heck, my f-n dog could tell you these are the important players.
    It’s a slow news day in Montreal when this is a story.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  29. hyfyarse says:

    Ian, it’s been three years since I have been to a summit, are you doing it this year? I want to bring my wife ( a darn leaf fan ) to a real game.

  30. hyfyarse says:

    Dave it’s been three years since I have been to a summit, are you doing it this year? I want to bring my wife ( a darn leaf fan ) to a real game.

  31. sreuel says:

    What happens if Gomez doesn’t produce and it is January. Trade him send him down or keep playing him.

    • RGM says:

      If you honestly think that the club is going to give him a three month window, you’re a far more generous human being than I.

      ———————–
      GO HABS GO! Maybe 2012-13 will be our year!
      “Scott Gomez is an elite NHL player” – VancouverHab

      Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

    • HabsWinn-ipeg says:

      I would think that if he doesn’t look good in pre-season they will bury him in Hamilton – too much of a distraction otherwise.

  32. clubdehockey says:

    Does anyone else think that — now that Lidstrom is retired and that they didn’t land either Parise or Suter — the Detroit Red Wings might miss the playoffs for the first time in 16 billion years?

    After Datsyuk and Zetterberg (who are on the wrong side of 30 at this point), there’s really not all that much going on for that team. Is coaching enough to get them into the playoffs?

    I have some doubts.

  33. Sean Bonjovi says:

    Carey Price will receive $39 million in the next six years, and received $5.5 Million over the last two. (39+5.5=44.5/8 years)

    If the Canadiens offered P.K. Subban an 8 year – $44.5 million would he sign it?

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Probably, but I don’t see MB offering that length of term. Have no idea what MB will offer financially, but I suspect the Ownership and Mgmt are in harmony on what kind of term they can live with.

    • HabsWinn-ipeg says:

      25 million over 5 years:
      3.5/4.5/5.5/5.5/6.0

      • Sean Bonjovi says:

        I’m wondering if Subban, or the Canadiens think it’s worth the risk to take your contract and add 3 more years at …6.5/7.0/7.5 (something like that. That adds up to 46 million, but it’s the same idea). The Canadiens could use these next two, or three seasons to lower PK’s cap number in his prime earning years.

        • HabsWinn-ipeg says:

          That’s the idea (lowering the cap hit). In my mind PK is going to be a stud, but at present he is a young “up and comer”. Lock him up for a few years at a lower escalating salary and pay him on the back end at the rate you think he will be. I don’t know if he or the Habs would go for much more term – maybe another year. By then he will be in UFA territory and may want to keep his options open. Depends on what he thinks will happen with the UFA age/years of service in the next CBA.

  34. Shane1313 says:

    Suter doesn’t deserve that much..
    Parise could have got a little more though.
    I feel good about Gorges getting 3.9 the way the D-men salaries are going. First Wideman, who isn’t as good as Gorges gets 4.5(was that it?) The Suter who’s not much better gets 7.5.
    Let’s see where PK lands, because he’s young I have a feeling it won’t be too long term and too high. Maybe 4 years at 16 mil, we’ll see

    • commandant says:

      Suter is not much better than Gorges?

      Really?

      Go Habs Go!
      NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
      Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • Luke says:

      Ouch. Habs Fan goggles on a little tight here…

      Wideman (5.5 i believe) has three times scored double digits. He puts up around a 50pt/season average.

      I think he is not as capable as JG defensively, they aren;t too far apart. However he is in a whole other realm offensively. Like miles and miles.

      Suter? Light years ahead of Gorges.

      • Sean Bonjovi says:

        wideman sucks dude! poor man’s kaberle (who oddly enogh cost more money).

        • Luke says:

          Oh, i’m not much of a fan. I’m just pointing out that Wideman has out scored Gorges entire career goal total in three different seasons. And one (9% of his career scoring) of JG’s goals came with the Sharks.

          • Sean Bonjovi says:

            when you said “they aren;t too far apart” I thought you meant defensively. Dennis Wideman plays ZERO defence. Far, far worse than Josh Gorges. Not even close.

      • Shane1313 says:

        I mean Suter is good, in every area. There is almost no point difference. Suter averages around 40- 45 and Gorges around 35-40. But that doesn’t mean much, I know. Suter got to play with Weber also. He brings a lot of intangibles, but so does Gorges, led the league in shot blocks. They’re both Heart and Soul guys, I really don’t see a huge difference. I think Suter is mildly better.

        **Edit- Some people even believe Gorges should be captain, It’s funny he’s the type of player that will always be underestimated.

        • Sean Bonjovi says:

          those are gorges PIM, not points. I’m not a Suter fan either though.

          • Shane1313 says:

            Oops.
            Lucky I said it doesn’t mean much :p, especially when you’re looking Defensive Defenseman

        • Luke says:

          Umm, I guess you don’t have access to the internet or a computer right now, so I’ll just post quickly that Gorges career high goals in a single season is 4.

          His career high single season point total is 23. He’s managed 75 points in 446 games. So, say (rounding up) about a 14pt average per season.

  35. 24 Cups says:

    And just like that, the Wild become a major player in the NHL moving forward. Don’t forget that they also have Matt Dumba (D)and Charlie Coyle (C) waiting to join the team in 2013. Dumba could go nuclear in a few years time. Minnesota could be a serious Cup contender in two years time. All they need is for Bouchard to stay injury free and Heatley to act his age. Talk about leap frogging.

    Zach Parise Mikko Koivu PM Bouchard
    Dany Heatley Mikael Granlund Devin Setoguchi
    Matt Cullen Kyle Brodziak Cal Clutterbuck
    Darroll Powe Zenon Konopka Torey Mitchell
    Jason Zucker Johan Larsson Nick Palmieri

    Ryan Suter Tom Gilbert
    Jared Spurgeon Marco Scandella
    Steven Kampfer Jonas Brodin
    Nate Prosser Clayton Stoner

    Backstrom/Harding

  36. HabsinLA says:

    Just a thought for those of us who are impressed/jealous/bitter of the Wild signings. Parise and Suter both took a slight discount to join the Wild (or the fact that they chose the Wild out of all the other closer to contending teams) probably because Parise is Minnesotan born and raised and Suter is from nearby Wisconsin and his wife is from Minnesota. When was the last time a Quebec player took a discount to play in Montreal? Brisebois?

    My point is, we need to indoctrinate our youth better! Brainwash them see only the Habs as THE ONLY team worthy for their talents!

    All kidding aside, I’m happy for the Wild, they have a good fan base, they spent years losing players to other teams, now finally, some homegrown kids are coming back to make them proud!

    • wjc says:

      First of all I was impressed, then I started feeling bitter and jealous. Then I began to feel guilty, because really deep down I am impressed, but, can’t help feeling a tad jealous, this made me fly into a rage and start breaking things. My girl friend (sort of) told me to stop or she would leave me and this made me bitter. I didn’t mean to hit that cop, but he made me mad.

      Now I am locked up and this jail is impressive, but it is too cold and I feel bitter and jealous. I feel guilty because now my girl friend (sort of) has left me and now I am just sad, until the next annoucement comes through on a signing.

      wjc

  37. Un Canadien errant says:

    On another matter, what chance do we have of attracting Shea Weber next summer in free agency? I know he’s pals with fellow Kelowna Rockets alumnus Josh Gorges, I hope they talk shop when they train in the summer and our man is doing a good sales job.

    I think we should keep our powder dry and not waste cap space on any contract longer than one season for now. We have to re-sign David Desharnais and Max Pacioretty to RFA contracts next summer, and no big deals are coming off the books. If we want to make a run at Mr. Weber, we need to be smart.

    Of course, one aspect the owners might hammer the players with in the bargaining for the next Collective Agreement is an attempt to raise the minimum age for free agency back to 29 or 30, so Shea Weber might not be an unrestricted free agent next season after all, and David Poile could rest easy. I think he’s the real prize, not Ryan Suter.

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      “what chance do we have of attracting Shea Weber next summer in free agency?”

      0% I would guess.


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        Really? You won’t even give us a puncher’s chance?

        The reason I’m wondering about Shea Weber is I don’t know what he’s looking for. Does he want to play close to home, in a hockey market, in a good climate city, with certain friends, with a team that has a chance to win now, or is a consistent contender?

        • ont fan says:

          If you can’t get the the kids to come home, you aren’t going to get many free agents in the future. I really don’t get that but that’s the way it seems to be. The Habs are willing to match or over pay and we can’t get them to come home and play in front of their family and friends.So 0% I would guess.

    • 24 Cups says:

      Weber to the Habs? Chances are around 1%.

      It ain’t going to happen.

    • wjc says:

      Shea Weber, my sources tell me we have a GREAT chance of getting this guy, it is all but done. Take it to the bank. Weber will be in habs uniform before the year 2020 you can mark that down.

      My sources are always right.

      wjc

  38. habaholic68NJ says:

    Happy 4th of July to all my fellow Habs fans living in the USA. Hopefully it will not rain on the fireworks over the Hudson River tonight which is where I will be in Hoboken.

    *Listen to my instrumental tribute entitled “Habs at War” at http://petertoliasmusic.site11.com/Music_Site/OtherOriginalMusic.html

  39. Un Canadien errant says:

    I think it’s generally good news that the duo of Zach Parisé and Ryan Suter signed up with the Minnesota Wild, as opposed to traditional powers such as the Penguins or Red Wings. As much as Gary Bettman wants to plunk franchises in hockey hotbeds like Atlanta and Phoenix and Tampa Bay, the state of Minnesota is a natural hockey market that for some reason has had lean years in the NHL for whatever reason. As Ed Lopaz described, the state produces a lot of hockey talent, has a huge high school hockey tradition, and should be served with an exciting team to watch at the highest professional level. If any franchises deserve to be propped up, or to receive more media attention, it’s the Wild.

    It is too bad that the North Stars packed up and left for Dallas due to ownership intrigue, they were one of the first expansion franchises and had a cool logo and name, and it’s regrettable also that the Wild have been known as a stultifyingly boring team, due in no small part to the Jacques Lemaire trap years, when he made do with little talent and managed to ice a competitive team. Fans in Vancouver were forever trying to foist tickets for games against the division rivals Wild on their ‘friends’, a ploy which this sucker fell for a couple of times.

    We’ll debate the logic or irrationality of these contracts for years to come, but the immediate benefit will be another team on the NBC ‘Game of the Week’ rotation of Rangers, Flyers, Penguins, repeat cycle. If it generates some buzz in the States and in Minneapolis-St. Paul, then all for the better.

  40. habsavvy says:

    do you think MB will ever be as proactive as the Wild’s GM?
    I think not, but a nice pipe dream.

    mediocrity= Montreal Canadiens forever!

    • The Jackal says:

      Shh, go to bed, you missed naptime and you’re cranky, we get it.

      • commandant says:

        Yeah this was a move by the GM, not the ownership…

        Go Habs Go!
        NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
        Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • Lizardking89 says:

          For F sake what more do you want. There was no way those 2 were coming here no matter what Bergevin offered them. He was very proactive on July 1st. Prust was a great signing so were Armstrong and Boullion. Our GM made some smart moves not breaking the bank and not signing anyone long term. Signing big names to huge contracts is not always the smart move,

    • Hobie Hansen says:

      Nah, he’ll draft those types of players instead (Galchenyuk) already have Beaulieu and Subban. Just give it a little time.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Well you bring up a valid point, MB has been on the job for about a month now, and it’s not like he walked into a team saddled with sizeable contracts to veterans like Gionta, Gomez, Plex, Markov, Bourqe, Gorges, Cole.

      I mean Chuck Fletcher has only had the Minnesota job for 3 and a 1/2 years, hardly enough time to trade off some big salaries like Willie Mitchell, and other veterans once on the team.

      Fire Bergevin Now!!!! :)

      • otter649 says:

        Pierre Mcguire lost out as GM to Fletcher wonder if PM could have pulled off this signing like Cliff’s son did……..

      • HabsWinn-ipeg says:

        “Fire Bergevin Now!!!” – that’s funny. If we can’t move any contracts now, in a couple years we’ll have expired contract dollars to work with. By then some of our prospects will be NHL ready and we can pick up some free agents to round out the team. I think we’ll be a kicking-scratching-clawing for the play-offs team for this year, but at least we’ll have some hope for the not to distant future.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          I should have included a :) with my post, was being a tad sarcastic. How people can already be saying MB lacks creativity or whatever after 1 month on the job is beyond me.

          Will edit original post.

          • HabsWinn-ipeg says:

            The sarcasm was not lost on me – that’s what made it funny. All the doomsayers and prognosticators need to “just chill”, to quote a certain franchise goalie. It’s apparent that MB has a plan. He’s adding pieces that are needed to help us right now, and the draft was pure genius (although TT had alot to do with that). Everything about his moves have been well thought out in my opinion – unlike other GM’s we’ve had.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            I should have known a fellow Pegger would catch the sarcasm. Haven’t lived there in about 20 years, but still manage to get back every year to visit.

    • wjc says:

      pipes are nice….they make me dream to….all glassy and smokey, with special tobaccy and friends and mysterious people coming in and out a all hours selling something hidden in their coats.

      Awe pipe dreams.

      wjc

  41. Habilis says:

    @ Shiram

    Can’t reply anymore on the old thread. But I’m going to assume that you’re looking at the numbers on capgeek. Those can be a little confusing at times. They key is that when you see a signing bonus you have to remember that it counts as salary. So when you see his first year of 12mil salary and 10mil bonus, it actually means that he got 10mil up front and got paid 2mil during the season.

    The bonus is 10 mil but that bonus is not on top of the 12mil. The 12 mil is the total for the season.

    Hope that clears it up.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      It does, but now I feel stupid for not reading it properly on capgeek. Thanks! :)

      • HabFab says:

        Are you sure?
        I logged in, got kicked out, logged in again ALL to help you understand that
        SALARY CAP HIT = SIGNING BONUS + YEARLY SALARIES / NUMBER OF CONTRACT YEARS :D

        Yeah,
        aaaaoooo!
        aaaaoooo!
        5 o’clocks coming, soon it will be time for frankie to go home…

    • shiram says:

      thank you, I tried reading up on it, but could not find the pertinent information.
      Still seems like a weird way to do things.

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        The best reason for wanting a bonus is that you get it even if there’s a lockout.

        As far as I can tell, Parise and Suter both get $10M right now. They keep that money even if there’s a lockout.

        So, as far as the cap is concerned, $12M is $12M, but getting most of that as a bonus instead of salary is very advantageous.

        The other advantage of course is that you can use the money right away.


        Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  42. HabinBurlington says:

    Salary Cap/Bonus question.
    Shiram has raised a good question, when I look at Richards complete contract paid including bonus, the cap hit should be 9.77million. I know there is an explanation, but cannot remember.

    Anyone have the answer? Where is our sports legal eagle Commandant when we need him!

  43. wjc says:

    Why is everything so complicated and unfair?
    Why does life disappoint me so?
    I cheered and cheered so hard last year,
    And they ripped my heart out and sneered,

    Gomez, went to Alaska and forgot about me,
    Players traveled abroad and smiled and laughed,
    While I sat alone in the dark and agonized,
    And cried the tears of a broken hockey warrior,

    But this year will be different, my cheers will grow faint,
    They’ll say great things, but listening to them I ain’t,
    For I am forever jaded and my cries went unheard,
    Of course I will continue to believe every rumor word for word.

    wjc

  44. Mattyleg says:

    Anybody else think that Guidoune is crying into his extra-large cookie-dough Blizzard over passing up the opportunity to play with Parise and Suter for a chance to play with Erik Condra and Colin Greening?

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  45. HardHabits says:

    The rumours are true. Boone is giving up writing for the Gazette and is preparing for his new stint at The American Journal of Somnambulism.

  46. habstrinifan says:

    What happens to Weber now?

    Also in light of the huge contract and the acclaim that Suter has gotten, I compared Suter’s early years with P.K.

    Suter was drafted rnd 1 position 7. Othe rthan that Subban compares very favourably in the early parts of their career. May give us a clue as to Subban’s future?

  47. ogilthorpe says:

    Hope so… Didn’t show that on the new Habs app schedule…. THANKS….

  48. shiram says:

    From Elliot Friedman

    Salary breakdown for Suter/Parise: $12M next two seasons, then $11M, followed by five years at $9M. Last five years are: 8, 6, 2, 1, 1.

  49. ogilthorpe says:

    Has anyone else seen next season’s schedule…. Almost ALL Habs games will be on Sunday… No more Saturday games here… WHAT’S UP WITH THIS???????

  50. Bripro says:

    Here’s Pierre Lebrun’s breakdown on Parise’s and Suter’s contracts.
    Nice bonus, if you can get it.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Based on the huge dropoff in the final two years and the fact the bonus are so huge early, I could see Bettman saying no to these contracts.

      • Bripro says:

        But then you’d be asking him to go counter to one of his preferred GMs, and grow a spine….doubtful!

        • HabinBurlington says:

          He may need to rescind it in order to watch Minnesota squirm at the deal, so as to show why the CBA must be changed. I mean don’t get me wrong, I don’t really expect him too, the barn door has been wide open for 5 years or so now. Every farm animal is long gone….

          • Bripro says:

            Unrelated… are you coming down in October?

          • HabinBurlington says:

            You betcha! You attending this year I hope?

          • Bripro says:

            I don’t think so. I’ve just nailed down a large integration contract that will probably take me to Christmas. I’m not sure yet if I can give up my weekends, but I’ll definitely be at Hurley’s on the friday night.
            I’d like to say yes, but by the time I find out, Ian will only have solo tickets left….

    • shiram says:

      But I thought signing bonus did not count against the cap?
      I’m thinking they are making 12 millions for the first 2 seasons on top of a nice signing bonus.

      • Bripro says:

        I believe that’s only for the CBA.

      • Habilis says:

        Signing bonuses do indeed count towards the cap.

        • shiram says:

          So last season the Rangers had 22 millions off the cap tied to Brad Richards?? something does not add up.

          • Habilis says:

            You don’t take the signing bonus as a cap hit, the way it works is they total up all the money that the player will get over the contract, including signing bonuses, and then they divide that number by the length of the contract. That’s the cap number.

            This is why Gomez will only get paid 5 mil this year but his cap hit is still 7.3mil.

          • shiram says:

            No, that does not work, as it would give Brad Richards a cap hit of 9.77millions.
            He gets 60 millions overs 9 years and a total of 28 millions in signing bonus.
            so 88 millions divided over 9 years does not give his cap hit of 6.66.

            Also, Gomez did not have any signing bonus.

          • HabFanSince72 says:

            The bonus has to count. If not every team would be giving out huge bonuses to circumvent the cap.


            Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

          • Natrous says:

            .

          • boing007 says:

            Was David Copperfield involved in any of these transactions?

            Richard R
            Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

        • Bripro says:

          Unless they amortize it over the life of the contract. Then the bonus is divided equally, or they lump the entire sum and divide that over the length of said contract, I believe.
          For instance, both Parise’s and Suter’s contracts show a cap hit of $7.5MM each/year regardless of their actual pay structure.

  51. sreuel says:

    I am still saying if Gomez salary is gone we could of gotten a couple of good forwards who play not like Gomez who just skated around looking lost. But we want him at training camp and make $ for nothing. He hurts the team why put the team threw this again

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Same goes for Vancouver with Luongo, Tampa with Vinny where is this magic bean that gets rid of bad contracts without causing an owner to lose money as a result?

      • jols101 says:

        HB, the difference with Lu and Vinny is they still contribute to their teams success. They actually bring something to the table where as Gomers 7.3 million is just a black hole. 7.3 million paid to a player that is a distraction to the team and contributes nothing to the on ice product. This anchor of a contract needs to be dealt with one way or another. Hamilton or trade are the only 2 options. Ignoring it and keeping Gomer in MTL can not be an option if the Habs want to progress and build towards another Championship.

      • steve17 says:

        Wouldn’t that be a real twist, the onwers get amnesty on one contract. The habs use it on Gomez and Tamp uses it on LeCavalier and Montreal then signs him

        Habfan17

    • HabsWinn-ipeg says:

      There’s no way to get rid of his salary other than to trade him or put him in Hamilton. Can’t put him in Hamilton at the present, so you’d have to trade him, which isn’t going to happen given his cap hit and his production. MB can spend over the cap limit (I believe up to 10%) but it has to be down to the limit before the season starts. Without knowing what you are going to have to spend on RFA’s (Subban, Eller, etc) it’s hard to know how much you have available to spend. We might see more action from MB once our RFA’s are locked up. Kaberle might be a more reasonable contract to trade, as he could be worth his salary for the right team.

  52. Habs54 says:

    The real story here is “only in Montreal” would you get an article like this. The passion is there, that what makes this team, its history and its fans so great. Better days ahead, you can bank on that.
    Its like spring…a time of hope. As for Gomer, he’ll probably play. I don’t know if I’d want to pay a guy 5 million to play in Hamilton. Thats a lot of beer. basically a lot of us are asking Molson to throw away 5 Mil. I don’t know if I would! On the bright side, he can’t do worse.

    • pmaraw says:

      how can you throw away 5 million dollars that has already been thrown away?

      • Habs54 says:

        If he plays in Mtl he displaces someone else therefore what would actually be thrown away would be his replacements salary? Since most want a topgun then it would be more than chump change but might not be the full 5

    • Jim Edson says:

      No going to throw away anything at all, its already thrown!

      Gomez is going to get his 5 mill regardless!

      The question facing Geoff Molson is how much additional Cap money do I spend if Gomez is buried in the minors?

      Best case scenario is that Gomez lights up the AHL and is grabbed off waivers as the Habs try to bring him back.

      ———————————————————————-
      What does the Commissioner of the NHL do?

      In short, a league commissioner is the action man for the Board of Governors.

      They tell him what they want done and he works to make it happen through his subordinates while making sure that individual franchises play by the rules.

      ******** Translated if you haven’t won the Stanley Cup in 40 years your NHL team is becoming irrelevant in a sports mad city long behind MLB, NFL and NBA teams, you just tell the commissioner(who you gave a new contract at 7 plus million per) to make it happen and the rules are bent sufficiently to action the command.

      • Habs54 says:

        The cap space spent could very well be 5 mil. I know the 5 mil is spent, my point was he may want to get something for it whether we like it or not. I like your scenario but an even better one is Gomer plays and earns his money!! I’ll not bet on it but it is time for hope.

  53. hansolo says:

    I’m sorry but I don’t see that the esteemed academics said anything new. They just said, “Yep, Therrien identified who the good players were on the team.” They made no definitive conclusions as to what he would do with them or whether the team would be successful. The classic academic hedge of “many variables” is presented as the reason why they can’t be more definitive. Rather pointless, I’m afraid. Regular HIO posters might also have said essentially nothing but at least would have been provocative (and therefore interesting). The profs should have asked their grad students to write the post (if their grad students really did, they should be ashamed of themselves).

    As to the Wild, and Parise and Suter, good on them. The cap hits are not bad, really. Anyone remember Bobby Lou, MA Fleury, Vinny Lecavalier or Rick Dipietro (or Scott Gomez)? As to the term well, if they retire, the cap hits go away, right? Also, with inflation, the cap hits will become manageable. More power to the Wild for being able to sign both — they were the cream of this year’s UFA crop. I’m sure either Suter or Parise might have been able to squeeze a bit more out of another team. I wish we could have signed Parise — not sure we needed Suter given what’s in the pipeline for D-men. Th Wild will be a formidable team next year, especially if they trade Heatley.

  54. HammerHab says:

    according to the poll 78% of us believe the Habs will make the playoffs next season. rather optimistic ’round these parts. After a last place finish I’d rather expect less and be surprised when we achieve more than expect more and be upset when we acheive less.

  55. punkster says:

    Good find Mike. I’ll bet not many teams out there have highly regarded sociology profs providing independent analysis.

    Maybe you could ask them to do a paper analyzing HI/O posters.

    ***Subbang Baby!!!***

    • Bripro says:

      As long as they don’t recruit psychologists to do their on-site analysis, Dave.
      The optimists among them would gather that there are a few head-cases to work on here. The pessimists among us would fear that it’s true!

    • HabFab says:

      Actually read that paper, believe it was titled “Many Coocoo’s in One Nest”
      Of course the Hollywood version was so rescripted that only Timo’s character is recognizable.

    • DCH says:

      Well, one of the Profs is a CEGEP professor, which means he may not even have his doctorate :).

      Highly regarded or not, I think this article was meant to be more of a tongue-in-cheek sort of analysis. If it was meant to be a true scientific article, I’d have to go look at the full piece of work, but I already see gaping holes in the methodology and sampling.

      Moral of this Post: Take it as a piece of entertainment, not as a vindication of Therrien’s last stint as a Habs coach.

      …and as a Sociology doctoral student, let me assure you that whoever would be willing to analyze HI/O posters would have to be brave indeed ! :)

  56. ed lopaz says:

    Minnesota is TRULY one of the greatest hockey markets in the world.

    not just NHL, but College hockey, and even high school hockey is

    absolutely huge in the state.

    Hockey Day in Minnesota is sold out every year.

    High school, a college, and then finally an NHL game.

    high school hockey in Montreal averages about 50 fans per game.

    Canadian college hockey, which has teams built from A-Z with Major Junior players, average a few hundred to each game.

    I say, Good for Minnesota!!

    After losing their team, they have fought their way all the way back and will become a force going forward.

    The hockey fans of Minnesota must be thrilled.

    I think its a great day for hockey when another franchise has a legitimate shot at the Cup.

    • punkster says:

      For the younger set on here today there was a time when the North Stars, though not exactly a powerhouse, was the home to some great names. Bill Goldsworthy, Cesare Maniago, Harry Howell, Herb Brooks…so many memories in those names.

      ***Subbang Baby!!!***

      • HammerHab says:

        I met Harry Howell a few days after the Rangers were eliminated, still proudly sporting his Rangers jacket, proud of what the team had accomplished. Age starting to get the best of him, but he is truly a great and humble man.

    • boing007 says:

      My father was born in Minnesota. Beautiful country there. Land of a thousand lakes. Hooray for Minnesota! Go Wild go!

      Richard R
      Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  57. shiram says:

    A couple of cap related thoughts.
    Price’s deal is back loaded, as seasons go his salary rises, that seems to be counter-intuitive to the general contract structures nowadays, is there a benefit to back loading a contract?
    Price also got 2 millions in signing bonus, last year Cole got 3 millions and will get another 2 millions in signing bonus this year. I wish the Habs would use signing bonus more, as a rich team it seems like the best way to work around the cap and get good players.

    • commandant says:

      If you wanted to front load a contract for the 25 year old price you are looking at a 13 or 14 year deal, not 7 based on his age.

      He’s not a player who will be in the twilight of his career when this deal expires, he’ll only be 31, really young for a goalie.

      Go Habs Go!
      NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
      Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • shiram says:

        Sure, but does not explain why he gets 5.5millions this year and it rises from there, just wondering what the benefits are to his type of contract.

        • commandant says:

          Probably the team wanted it that way. Pay him less in his RFA years and more in his UFA years.

          Advantage to the team in the Time Value of Money as there is less up front.

          Go Habs Go!
          NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
          Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
          http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • bleedhabs81 says:

        I see what the poutine is saying though.

        Your going to make X number of dollars anyway, why not beef up the first few years and trim the back few years. At least this way, if there is a falling out, the player looks a little more attractive towards the end of his contract.

        With respect to the player, present money is always worth more than future money

        • shiram says:

          or you know, why not have salary equal cap hit?

          • bleedhabs81 says:

            that would make it easily divisible, Shiram… which would eliminate 2 minutes of discussion by the TSN/RDS panel.

          • HammerHab says:

            perhaps it was at Price’s request. although not sure how smart that is….with inflation 7 million today is worth more than 7 million in 5 years…..

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Because historically a goalie gets better as he approaches 30. Therefore in a true Capitalist environment you pay the most for when the player plays the best.

      Seems perfectly fine to me to structure this way.

      • shiram says:

        I don’t mind the structure at all, I was just curious as to the reasoning behind giving him more money later.
        I guess Habs are really paying him on potential then.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          I would use the term “expectation” as opposed to potential. But see your point.

        • HabFanSince72 says:

          The advantage for the Habs is they have a lower outlay now. In real cash terms, they pay less now, and more later when perhaps their revenues will be higher.


          Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • Sean Bonjovi says:

      A good player,s salary throughout his career usually looks like this curve:
      ………….ooooo
      ……….oo……….oo
      …..oo………………oo….
      oo………………………oo

      Maybe not that steep, but something like that …(cont’d)…

    • Sean Bonjovi says:

      Price will earn $39 million over 6 years for a cap number of $6.5 million.

      He’s signed for a period of time that falls on the front half of that distribution curve (maybe into the middle of the plateau). To sign a 24 year old player to a “cap friendly” contract adding extra years would make the cap number worse before it made it better

      He played for $3 million this year and $2.5 the year before. That’s 39+5.5= 44.5/8 years would have resulted in a cap hit of about 5.5 for his 7 million dollar years. Singing him this year is better in terms of risk, because we have more information, but it leaves Price needing a contract at an age that makes it pretty hard to cheat the cap.

      Maybe we should sign PK for 8 or 10 years. He’d have a higher cap number for the next couple seasons, but it could pay off in 5 or six years. It’s risky though.

      • shiram says:

        Thanx Sean, but I was not really asking about the cap, but more about loading the back years, I get what you say that Price will be paid more when he is reaching his prime, but usually players seem to prefer the cash now kind of deals.

        • Sean Bonjovi says:

          OOOHHHH! You mean why didn’t he just ask for a $33 million signing bonus and play for $1 million per season. Good question!
          Maybe the totals like $39 million for Price, and $98,000,000.00 for Parise & Suter aren’t even the issue in negotiations.
          Maybe the whole contract negotiation is about how the money will be received.
          An RFA definitely wants an escalating salary to increase the required qualifying offer and things like that, but that doesn’t apply to Price.
          This question requires further thought and future discussion.

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      The bonus counts toward the cap.

      For example last year Richards got $12M of which $10M was a bonus. He did not get paid $22M. He got $12M. And the whole $12M counted toward his cap.

      He will receive $60M over 9 years (average = $6.6M).

      The only way to circumvent the cap is to give a very low salary at the end, when you expect the player will have retired.


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  58. neumann103 says:

    I don’t understand these kids today who don’t show fealty to the feudal overlords who purchased their parents as chattel.

    So they want to move to a different seigneurie just for more coin in their purse or lower tributes owed to the lord, or maybe just to move out of the freaking swamp. But do they ever think of the other vassals who cheered them on at feast day? No I think not.

    Bah! I say, a pox on them and their oath-making to this usurper Charles, son of Cliff of the Fletched Arrows and his Wild kingdom of the land of many lakes. Who are these so called Free agents and how dare they considered themselves free just because the terms of their indentured servitude begun with their capture and branding at the Draft now allow this?

    Psahhhaaah! Harrrrummph!

    “Et le but!”

  59. commandant says:

    Minnesota is gonna be a very scary team, if not right away then within 2-3 years.

    These guys are on 13 year contracts… they don’t need to win the cup in year 1.

    Go Habs Go!
    NHL Free Agency and Trade Analysis now.
    Team By Team Prospect Reports coming soon
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  60. GrimJim says:

    In other news, physics researchers believe they have discovered conclusive evidence of “The God Particle” which is believed to be the particle that ties other sub-atomic particles together in a cohesive manner.
    Scientists at the CERN research facility in Switzerland said that when it was found, the particle was wearing a Minnesota Wild jersey.

  61. Habilis says:

    Biggest losers of the day in my eyes are the Red Wings. You just know that they were banking on landing at least one of the two.

    Cue scramble mode.

  62. Therrien just doesn’t inspire confidence. Many of us are being hopeful, but to bring back a failed coach under new management is a curious at best decision.
    As for the shoring up of grit and sandpaper, the decision to get rid of a team player who proved his worth in sticking up for in Staubitz and inspiring standing up to opponents being ignored because his offensive skills aren’t great, neither are the ones who replaced him namely Armstrong, the Bull and Prust. So far, the acquisition of Gally is a great but that was because of the Ghost’s ineptitude, injuries and lack of talent among coaching and other problems of course.
    While some posters berate the negative fans about being open and giving the new management a chance, I believe we all are giving them a chance as we have no choice, but to simply say great this and that is absurd. Clearly there is a penchant for going Quebecois with staff and talent and that automatically reduces our chances of winning, improving or otherwise because our pool of talent is smaller. Along with the higher taxes that are paid in Quebec, it looks like we will be behind the eight-ball for decades to come, but as a loyal fan of the Habs, I will continue to be hopeful and read all about statistical proclivities that suggest there is hope in mudville!

    Promote the Youth, Support From The Veterans and Remember the Heritage!

    • wjc says:

      All coaches fail…Toe Blake didn’t win a Stanley cup in 1962, 1963, 1964, 1967…..lost four time to Toronto Maple leafs…..Punch Imlach.

      Look it up….he had Beliveau and Richard….all coaches fail at some point….Demers didn’t win a cup until 1993, after he had failed in Quebec, St. Louis, Detroit. all coaches fail.

      Burns never won a cup in Montreal, or Toronto. all coaches fail.

      Buffalo, Vancouver, Ottawa, San Jose, St. Louis etc have never won a cup……..losing happens to 29 teams a year. You should win a cup every 30 years or so.

      wjc

  63. wjc says:

    I want to apologize for not being more agreeable. I find it hard to travel with the lynch mob.

    My question is: Who will get more points Jagr or Gomez?
    Will Gomez be a mystery to Therien?
    Do you think he and Gomez have talked, met and come up with a strategy that might work in the favor of the Canadiens.

    Will Gomez speak his mind and tell Therien where he an Martin could not see eye to eye. Because the previous coach has to take some responsibility for a player being so lost after so many season with points between 60 and 80.

    With so many people routing against Gomez, did that create a positive atmosphere I cannot imagine how fed up he must have gotten. Look how close Martin came to not recognizing Coles obvious contribution/talent.

    I honestly think some people get off on failure, for a team they profess to cheer for. I think if you throw enough negative stuff against the wall some will stick and then you can say “see, told you so.”

    That article left something to be desired. Just a bland pile of do do as far as I am concerned…….

    wjc

    • Doo doo! Can’t you get the spelling of a form of excrement right! You’ll upset the grammatical police on this forum!

      Promote the Youth, Support From The Veterans and Remember the Heritage!

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        Also, since you bring it up:

        root
        intr.v. root·ed, root·ing, roots
        1. To give audible encouragement or applause to a contestant or team; cheer.
        2. To lend support to someone or something.

        • wjc says:

          Should it be brought it up instead of bring it up.

          “since you brought it up”…..”since you bring it up”, but don’t worry I will still root for you.

          wjc

        • wjc says:

          What about the idea’s presented Mr. Teacher, it is an old debating trick to key in on to irrelevant small mistake, you obviously knew what I was trying to say, yet you veered away. Interesting, no/yes

          wjc

    • wildwilly says:

      Concerning Gomez, I think the coaches have given him every opportunity to succeed. Without bringing up a pile of statistics, Gomez was given 18:07 per game in 2010-2011 and 14:08 last year. He was used often on the power play and in offensive situations. Eller, by contrast, did much more with much less.

      I agree with your assessment of other posters… It is easier to knock down than to build constructively. It is a great forum to fret or cheer the Habs… We’ve got higher standards than any other sports franchaise.

      • wjc says:

        Which coaches though, surely you are not referring to present coaches. Eller is a different player, an up an coming talent, but a different player. It is hard, as they say to teach an old dog, a new way to play.

        Knocking down is not a higher standard.

        wjc

  64. darcy1 says:

    just throwing this out there… but why not bring back AK46? He’s played with Pleks, & from what i remember reading last year he was a glue guy that was “willing to take a discount to stay in montreal”.

    ——————-
    “Talent is a gift from God, but you only succeed with hard work. Yvan was proof of that.”
    – Jean Beliveau

  65. HabFab says:

    Here is todays quizz…who are these two esteemed academics when they post on HIO?
    Good article gentlemen.

  66. Thomas Le Fan says:

    Parise and Suter both to Minnesota! How wild is that? Too bad they let Latendresse slip away. No cup for them! Ha!

  67. HabFab says:

    Off subject but PK is back in Montreal. Sign him MiB

  68. Hobie Hansen says:

    Next thing Minnesota should do is change their name back to the North Stars…or anything other than the Wild. Change the ugly uniforms as well.

  69. shiram says:

    All that just to confirm that DD, Patches, Cole, Pleks, Subban and Price are indeed good players?

    • bleedhabs81 says:

      You shouldn’t expect ground breaking revelations regarding hockey to come out of the field of sociology…. bred from the lesser fields within science and arts… not smart enough to do anything important and not pretty enough to marry anyone important.

      all in jest, I assure you.

      • shiram says:

        Maybe not, but I guess I’ve become used to more relevant/entertaining stuff from the HIO bunch.

        • bleedhabs81 says:

          I found the advertisement at the top quite amusing… a groupon for Maxi Pads.

          Go get’em boys!

          • shiram says:

            Those ads are usually based on your browsing history and other such internet trickery..
            This computer must have ad-block as I’m not seeing any ads on here.

          • bleedhabs81 says:

            Oh?

            Maybe I should do more with my computer than look at adult material and HIO…. at the very least, I should reconsider changing the key words in my google searches! It seems to think I have a vag-jay-jay… fair enough, i guess.

          • shiram says:

            Sorry I did not mean this to be insulting in any ways.
            In any case if you dislike those ads, you can always look into Ad-block, it works on most browsers.

          • bleedhabs81 says:

            Don’t worry, I was not insulted. Had you made unsavoury mentions about my mother, then I would be offended.

            I am a little concerned that other HIO posters have assumed that I spend most of my days searching for Gucci bags, Prada sunglasses, and Monostat cream. I hope by making the “adult material joke” that I dissuade this line of thought…

  70. toinz says:

    Re-post from the other thread

    Three very high profile left wingers are now presumably on the market: Rick Nash, Dany Heatley and Bobby Ryan.

    While it was the Eastern teams that wanted Parise (Pitt, NYR, Philly) it will be the western teams that might want to respond to this major move by the Wild.

    Detroit and Nashville almost are forced to respond.

    We can be in for some fireworks on the trade market.

  71. jols101 says:

    Hehehe, this is the story of the day…lol.

    Good for Minny, they got tougher on the first day of UFA, and now they got a lot more skilled. They are going to be fun to watch especially with the great young prospects they have.

    Great Prospects, Tough Team and High End Elite Veteran Talent. Should equal many years of success…

  72. The Jackal says:

    I just want the season to start.

  73. arcosenate says:

    But not as cuckoo as the Minnesota Wild…

  74. arcosenate says:

    He’s obviously cuckoo.

  75. wjc says:

    So this is what it is like to be… a hab-fan-4life …. Is it as joyless and agonizing as you make it sound. Heck, don’t wait for later, cry now.

    wjc

  76. Lazarus_taxa says:

    Golden

  77. Habilis says:

    ^ What he said ^

  78. Oh yeah? Then why bring back Therrien who has a losing percentage and gruff style to Poff veterans? Certainly AK is a floater and bad example (Bye bye Radulov) so why recycle the Bull at 37 and Therrien to?

    Promote the Youth, Support From The Veterans and Remember the Heritage!

  79. dhenry1234 says:

    Ak was a much better player than Bourque is when it comes to being a Canadien. Id much rather AK than Bourque.

  80. HabsWinn-ipeg says:

    Therrien was the best available option who spoke french. His history is that he does well in the first two years, then starts to lose the team in the third – hence the 3 year contract. This is why they hired Lefeyvre for Hamilton…likely the coach in waiting for the Habs. If Therrien can do what he has done in the past, we’ll make the playoffs this year, be better next year, and in year 3 he’ll be gone. I’m OK with that, as long as MB has a long term plan for succession.

  81. Lizardking89 says:

    Thought the exact same thing. We’ll see how good he is around December. I’m not expecting much.

  82. wjc says:

    Not expecting much, is it because the team will be lousy
    The coaching will be lousy.
    The team and the coaching will be lousy.
    Because Price is Lousy, his defense is lousy, both are lousy.
    Gomez is lousy, the assistant coaches are lousy, the general manager is lousy, the ice is lousy, the fans are lousy.

    Will be because the cap is too high/to low.
    Your porridge is to hot, to cold….or just right
    Because hockey night in canada is lousy, Bob Cole is lousy.
    the refs are lousy, the music is lousy, the jumbo tron is lousy, the hot dogs are lousy, the beer is over priced and lousy.

    wjc

  83. boing007 says:

    It’s not likely that Lefevre will be the next coach, but if does well in Hamilton then his chances of making the big time will certainly improve. And he could end up making the move with most of the prospects and draft picks that he will be coaching in the next couple of years. Continuity.

    Richard R
    Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  84. wjc says:

    woof woof….I don’t hide behind pictures of dogs.

    wjc

  85. Bill J says:

    LMFAO! Maybe a eye doctor too. Just to be safe.


    #OperationGomezTirePump
    #OperationSubbanDeflatedSalaryExpectations

    Tweet it, talk about it. Let’s get rid of Gomez and sign Subban for cheap!
    Go Habs Go!

  86. Rozz says:

    well, you have no pic at all.. just saying ..

    “When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.”

    Mark Twain.

  87. HAHAHHA
    Jokes aside, please don’t feel bad wjc. I love your enthusiasm but I just don’t see Gomez rebounding. We can all pray though.. I am sick of seeing that ugly cap hit on the roster.

  88. pottymonster says:

    In the same way that wjc is defending Gomez to the death for unknown reasons, one needs to realize that getting rid of Gomez will not solve all our problems. What will solve our problems is getting rid of Gomez and then replacing his cap hit with somebody better.

    At this point, we are potentially able to only accomplish the former and not the latter. As such, the best we can hope for is to stand still.

  89. boing007 says:

    Did you take a survey?

    Richard R
    Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  90. Mick says:

    Telling the truth gets you in trouble on this site.

  91. alfieturcotte says:

    Agree with you. They went lateral at best with these signings and created a logjam of Moen esque type players who have little to no business on the 2nd and 3rd lines.

    I too am not pleased with the MT hiring and thus far wholly unimpressed with our rookie GM. Finally, the Price contract is wholly undeserved.

  92. Bill J says:

    To be fair, there aren’t that many Gomez Cheerleaders anymore. They just don’t let up and make lots of noise.

    Gnomez Trolls.


    #OperationGomezTirePump
    #OperationSubbanDeflatedSalaryExpectations

    Tweet it, talk about it. Let’s get rid of Gomez and sign Subban for cheap!
    Go Habs Go!

  93. Thomas Le Fan says:

    If the CBA was fair, players like this could negotiate downward to save their careers and credibility. Gomez was asked to do what everyone should have known he was not able to do, so I have some sympathy for him but mostly I have sympathy for Habs fans who have had to watch this play out. He’d probably be a nice fit somewhere at Colby Armstrong prices but at Crosby prices, he’s more than a bust and the pressure to earn the dough must be intense.


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