Number-crunching with P.K.

A few almost thoroughly useless statistics relating to P.K. Subban’s first career NHL hat trick Sunday night in St. Paul against the Wild:

• This was the 362nd hat trick scored in the life of the NHL Canadiens, from 1917-18
• It was the 396th hat scored in the lifetime of the Canadiens, including their NHA years from 1909-10 to 1916-17
• Subban’s hat was the first scored by a Habs defenceman since Sheldon Souray turned the trick on Dec. 18, 2003 against Nashville
• Subban’s hat came 36,950 days after Newsy Lalonde had scored the Canadiens’ first-ever on Jan. 19, 1910, the Habs’ first game
• Arguably, this was the first hat scored by a Habs rookie defenceman. Use an asterisk with Didier Pitre’s three hats scored in 1910-11, during which he was listed as a forward and a defenceman and there was some debate whether he was a rookie, having played a handful of games the previous season.

We now return you to useful posts.


  1. Dennis says:

    I’m on the same page about women as Desharnais and Weber.

    When I own the team, things will be different.

  2. Lafrich says:

    Wow. WAY less comments than usual. Pretty sure this massive reconstruction of this site will backfire. Plus: HOCKEY???Insideout? Wasn’t the whole point of this to be about the HABS!!!

  3. filincal says:

    maybe the problem with some peoples avatar is the ratings…one of my pics (Subbie beatin on a Loaf) I rated PG and it doesn’t appear. Yet my pic of Price was rated G and there’s no problem. I don’t know if that helps.
    I now re-rated the Subbie pic. et voila!

  4. filincal says:

    I don’t see the adds everyone is seeing on the new pages…only two at the top.


  5. What was Pierre Gauthier’s best move this season?

    1) Keeping Price over Halak

    2) Trading for Wisniewski

    3) Trading Lapierre to make room for Desharnais

    4) Hiring Randy Cunnyworth

    5) Believing in Jacques Martin and the coaching staff

    • HabsProf says:

      1) Worked tremendously so far, but goaltending is a remarkably inconsistent position, and I never reach a conclusion about goalies until several seasons have passed.

      2) Worked great – this may be his best move.

      3) I’m not sure he did it specifically to create room for Desharnais. I don’t mind trading Lapierre, but I don’t think we got much for him.

      4) Again, this is something that takes time to establish, but I think he has done well. I put it lower than the Wiz trade.

      5) Why would he have changed his mind about them after last season? No way would anyone have dumped an established coach who did EXACTLY what he was hired to do for a popular, rising but ultimately unproven coach with only minor league head coaching experience. To me, this move was a no-brainer. The only thing I wish PG had done was found some way to keep Boucher in the fold.


      They brought their f____ing toys with them!

    • Chris says:

      1) Too early to tell. Price has worked out great, but I suspect Halak would have worked out great as well. Not sure there will ever be a definitive answer to this one, as the circumstances are completely different.

      2) Good move to get Wisniewski, whose point blast is exactly what the team needed. With the emergence of Subban, the PP might be able to do without Wisniewski next season. Although I still maintain that if they keep Markov, he and Subban do not work well together as it would require Markov going to the side he is not adept at to ensure that Subban can get the one-timers.

      3) I replied below, but Lapierre’s trade only opened up a roster spot. Desharnais is a centre, and Lapierre was playing little to no centre this season. Most of Desharnais’ playing time has come at the expense of Pyatt and Halpern.

      4) Good move. I never really understood the Guy Boucher hoopla. He’s a good coach, but he is replacable.

      5) As mentioned above, this was a non-starter. You can’t can your coach the season after a surprise semi-final run. With all the injuries, there hasn’t been a point all season where I’ve though “Ooh…Martin has lost it!”

      And I did very much have those moments for Carbonneau (the Metropolit on the 5-on-3 PP game) and Gainey.

    • VancouverHab says:


  6. StevieRay says:

    So when I get to the site asks me for my user name I use ” Stevieray ” which is my HIO avatar name . It says the name is in use and I can’t use ?
    Is my Gravatar user name and password supposed to be different than my HIO name/password ….
    I am easily skulled by technology you can see !

    • HardHabits says:

      The thing that needs to be the same is the email account for both the Gravatar and HIO accounts. Hope that helps. 😉

      • StevieRay says:

        thank you ..Great Help ..that works … now how do I copy/paste my old avatar pic onto the site ??

        • HardHabits says:

          Hopefully you have the pic saved on your computer somewhere. You’d have to upload it via the Gravatar website. I hope it works. fbkj hasn’t gotten his linked, apparently because user names are not the same.

          Good luck!

          • StevieRay says:

            The picture now shows on the site … just need to get it on the new HIO site …..thought I had it but didn’t work …delimma !

    • HabsProf says:

      I just did it myself. Create an account with Gravatar. When they ask you to register, enter your e-mail address (the one that is registered with HI/O. Do not enter your username from HI/O.

      Your Gravatar image follows you from site to site depending on what your registered e-mail address is with that site.


      They brought their f____ing toys with them!

  7. Mark C says:

    Brad Marchand is at it again: “I think that it’s about time he gets — he’s got to be taught a lesson. He’s doing that stuff left, right, and center. I expect that he’ll probably get a bunch of games, but he’s got to be taught a lesson”.

    Not that I don’t agree with Marchand, but what is he doing? He’s just returning from his own suspension for giving another player a head shot. How many veterans and other players will Marchand throw under the bus before Cherry and these other anti-Subban type start taking his guy to the shed?

  8. habs001 says:

    our elite forwards will score between 20-30 goals most years.. the key for this team is the bottom 6 forwards. moen has been playing great for 2-3 weeks but he only has 6 goals…if he had 6-8 more goals on the season and pyatt 6 more and the rest of the forwards a few more goals this team would be in first despite of the injuries…what a difference when we get a few goals from the bottom 6…also a big key is production from our d…this is why it would be really nice to be able to keep the wiz…i am not sure how much we should depend on maxpac playing…it looks like he will not play any reg season games and can you put him into an intense playoff game right away?..i think the earliest he would be available is the second round…

  9. punkster says:

    Do we still have the 5 reply limit?
    Reply to this comment and lets see.

  10. HabsProf says:

    One thing I have noticed no one commenting on – did you see Hall Gill on PK’s first goal? When Subban got close to the blue line (a move that he himself acknowledged was pretty dangerous), Gill backed off in case the defender poked the puck free. If he had, instead of a breakaway, Gill would have had the guy covered. At the same time, it created more room for PK to freewheel.

    Just one of those smart, veteran plays that Gill makes that never shows up in the scoresheet. Those two are well paired.

    • Propwash says:

      There were lots of people ragging about Gill. Yeah, he won’t win very many races even against molasses, but he does the job as a d-man quite well.

  11. habsfansince91 says:

    since this site is improving as we speak and that the design is growing on me bit by bit, I’ll hereby change my picture.

  12. naweed235 says:

    LOL the boys messing arround with P.K after his big night :

  13. Jdub1985 says:

    Wow … I can scroll down and see everyones comments … the people upstairs can hear.

    I love how the site now advertises Anaheim Duck packages.

  14. smiler2729 says:

    So is P.K. now a serious Calder candidate?

    • HalifaxHabs says:

      If he isn’t being considered, then that proves institutional racism in amongst the NHL award voters.

      There, I said it.

    • observer says:

      do they vote after the season? or after the playoffs?

      • HalifaxHabs says:

        they are only supposed to consider the regular season… I’m not sure when exactly they collect the votes, but probably soon after the playoffs begin.

    • Seems like the Calder is between Coutoure, Grabner and Skinner, with Crawford being the darkhorse. Unfortunately the Calder voters usually ignore defensemen, even though it’s likely that Subban and Carlson are actually the best rookies in the NHL. Both are currently the #1 defenseman for their team, which is way harder to be than an winger like the 3 rookies favoured, or a goalie on a stacked team.

    • Chris says:

      It’s a strong pool this year:

      Subban, Carlson, Skinner, Grabner, Bobrovsky, Ennis, Fowler, Crawford and Neuvirth probably all deserve some consideration.

  15. HalifaxHabs says:

    GREAT JOB Habs I/O team… I see you added the edit button.

    Here’s one I just noticed… it use to be that whenever anyone replied, their reply would be at top… but now, every new reply just keeps getting added to the end.

    Can we get it switched back, so the most up to date reply is at the top?

  16. observer says:

    Did anyone notice? Habs scored 8 goals yesterday and with all those regulars out?

  17. Rudy says:

    Need a New Comment indication please

  18. HardHabits says:

    OMFG!!! This site is actually improving as we speak.

    And who says that bitching and moaning doesn’t produce results?

    We can all thank Timo for the Habs current success. All hail Timo!!!

  19. joshua94k says:

    An excellent artice about Pk Subban. As Bob Gainey said ” just shut up and let the kid play…”

  20. HardHabits says:

    PK is the Habs Scott Niedermayer. Price is Brodeur. Gomez is our Sergei Brylin.

  21. Timo says:

    Test, for the last mf time.

  22. habs365 says:

    Does anyone know how to install your picture in the comment section?

    • notbigbird says:

      Doing the Gravatar Thingie

      1. Go to and open an account.
      2. Upload your gravatar and use their tool to crop it to a square.
      3. Associate/link the gravatar to the email account that you use for HIO.

      Done: It will show up here after a little wait.

  23. Chris says:

    Few thoughts for this morning:

    Regarding Subban:

    Good on Subban. I can’t remember who the sage was (possibly 24 Cups), but I recall a post back around Christmas indicating they saw a second half surge coming from Subban based on his play. Well, they were right.

    On January 1, Subban has 2 goals and 9 assists in 35 games. Good numbers for a rookie, but hardly earth-shattering.

    Since then, Subban has racked up 9 goals and 15 assists in 34 games.

    Impressive stuff. Fingers crossed for the dreaded sophomore jinx next season.

    Regarding Ryan McDonagh:

    The kid is now up to +17 and has chipped in 8 assists through 30 games and is approaching 20 minutes per game now on the Rangers blue line. He’s never going to be an offensive star, but he’s doing exactly what he was drafted for: a good shut-down defenceman that can kill penalties, block shots and keeps his defensive zone clean. Moving forwards, he will be an excellent partner for an offensive defenceman. It’s almost two years later, and I still hate that trade…I desperately wish we could have given them anybody else in the system except McDonagh, as he represents something the Habs still need: a young, promising shutdown defenceman to replace Gill or Hamrlik, who are getting very, very long in the tooth.

    Regarding Pekka Rinne:

    Carey Price is an obvious candidate for the Price and the Hart Trophies, but I think we Habs fans also have to look over and salute the brilliant job that Rinne has done in Nashville. A 2.09 goals against average and 0.930 save percentage has him second in the league in both categories behind Tim Thomas, and he’s doing it with a pretty weak supporting cast himself (I would argue even weaker than that of Price).

    My finalists for the Hart right now have Thomas, Rinne (who I think might be the favourite) and Price. Lundqvist is also in the mix, as New York is in a playoff position with not a lot of firepower or star power on his team.

    Regarding Andrei Kostitsyn:

    As much as we slam Jacques Martin at times for his line juggling, the success of the Andrei Kostitsyn/Lars Eller parternship is a great example of how something you might not have thought of can become a huge positive. Kostitsyn was demoted to the fourth line by Martin after a long funk…everybody took it as a punishment. Full credit for Eller and Kostitsyn in turning that negative into the very pleasant surprise. Since that Vancouver game on February 22, Kostitsyn has 6 G and 12 points in 13 games while Eller has 4 G and 7 points over the same time period.

    Eller is still young and has some growing to do as an NHL player, but he is a big part of the team’s future. Who knew entering this season that Eller/Kostitsyn and Desharnais/Pouliot would be such great partnerships? And before people take this the wrong way, we should acknowledge that part of their success is coming because of their roles: when most of those guys are pushed into roles above their ability, they struggle. This is a lesson we have learned over the years with players like Lapierre and Higgins, so I really hope that the administration and we fans can show more patience and acceptance that a very good third or fourth line player does not necessarily equate to a very good second or third line player.

    • punkster says:

      Re: your punishment comment about AK. I don’t believe JM punishes mistakes. He takes corrective action, a concept that seems foreign to many here. Maybe their upbringing or the way they were treated as kids in minor hockey. JM and his staff take the time to work with the young players who make mistakes and if that means sitting them for a period or a few games so the player understands what they did wrong then so be it. Punishment would have been a bus ticket to Hamilton and another call-up as replacement. No, the players he has “punished” all seem to learn something. That’s good management and good teaching.

    • Bugs says:

      Let the record show I knew that the Dezzy and Poolio partnership was gonna be friggin grrrreat.
      I don’t like the often argued notion that because someone “doesn’t see (the manifestation of something) coming”, no one else did.
      Ex: “Nobody thought the Habs would make the playoffs last year.” Nobody? I did. I thought we’d be 8th. Lo and behold. But surely, I couldn’t’ve been the only one even though “eeeeeverybody said”.
      In this case, it doesn’t take a law degree to see that Dezzy has dominated every league he’s played, playing with a chip on his shoulder for being forever told he couldn’t make it. A guy like that WORKS twice as hard as anyone else. A guy like that DRAGS a guy like Poolio along. A guy like Poolio playing under the spell of a guy like Dezzy’s confidence has the potential for massive production.
      Which is why I don’t think it’s such a leap of faith to have “foreseen” the success of that particular union.
      The Eller, AK union though, ok…

      • Chris says:

        I don’t think most people even saw there being room for Desharnais on the roster this season, with Gomez, Plekanec, Halpern, Eller and Lapierre ahead of him. So I’m not sure there could have been too many predicting that being a good partnership in the preseason. 🙂

        • Trading Lapierre to make room for DD might be the best move Gauthier made this year.

          • Chris says:

            I don’t really see the Lapierre trade as having made room for Desharnais. Lapierre had been used as a winger for most of the season (he only took 55 faceoffs). Lapierre’s roster spot obviously opened up the spot, but Desharnais’ playing time has largely come at the expense of Jeff Halpern as the third-line centre.

    • observer says:

      He’s now the leading rookie defenseman goal scorer(by 4 goals) and point getter(by 3 points). Tied for 9th in rookie points(all skaters).

    • HalifaxHabs says:

      “My finalists for the Hart right now have Thomas, Rinne (who I think might be the favourite) and Price”

      There will never be a list of Hart nominations that has 3 goalies on it. Even if they are deserving.

      • Chris says:

        Doh! I meant the Vezina.

        Hart will be a tough one this year, as there are no clear favourites with Crosby going down to injury, the Sedins splitting their votes and few other standouts on offence.

  24. Timo says:

    Hey whatever happened to the homeboy Lats last night? Did he play? Didn’t hear his name mentioned once, even by Benoit Brunet.

  25. Maksimir says:

    Yea! I found my old avatar pic.. though had to crop her a bit more…

  26. J Haul says:

    Offside: it absolutely is because you’re on the iPhone. I was having the same issues and asked around to no avail. I then finally checked the site on my laptop, where the issues you mentioned seemed to disappear. There were discussion threads and reply options again.
    I’m on my iPhone right now, hence the need for me to mention your name, rather than simply reply. They did say they were working on an iPhone app, so I’d assume these issues are going to be taken care of.

  27. Ian Cobb says:

    ATTENTION Hockey Inside Out
    3 things please!

    1–need an edit.
    2–need a spot to click for comments–instead of having to scroll to bottom.
    3–need to click onto others pic, to get to there profile and contact them through the site.

  28. Spartan117 says:

    PK should win the Charlie Sheen Trophy for being so winning.

  29. wd40 says:

    what is Matt Cooke’s major malfunction? this guy doesn’t belong in the NHL. This guy needs to sit for a long time.

  30. joshua94k says:

    Check out the link to see some rare positive assessment of PK Subban from CBC HNIC last Saturday. Unlike Don Cherry who unfairly criticizes PK and uses a national platfrom to address his positive bias, it is refreshing to hear some sound rebuttal to all this unfair coverage this young great player gets.

  31. CanadienBoy says:

    ok how the heck you get you’re pic.. back up

  32. Maksimir says:

    Anyone see the twitter pic of Subban and his cut tie? Does anyone have the story behind that?

  33. observer says:

    Can you imagine like 2 Sedins on the same team – 2 Subbans on this team? Burke would know how to get the 2nd one if he already had the first.

  34. wd40 says:

    Hey.. I’m sure this has been discussed but how do we add our pics/avatars to our profiles? I don’t see where I can do this in the profile editor….

  35. coachdoug says:

    Just trying out the new site…the mobile version is definately better…

    Hopefully a new server was added as well…

  36. Bugs says:

    At the cost of great sacrifice, the Design is nevertheless setting in. Coutesy of CSN:
    “In many ways the Bruins simply haven’t been the same team since they were pounded at the Bell Centre and branded as the new Legion of Doom after Chara’s hockey play on Pacioretty in the treacherous stanchion area between the benches. Chara has certainly been a shadow of himself after getting cast as the mustache-twirling villain.
    Mwoooo-ah-ha-haaaa! I can’t WAIT to post this on NESN with a big fat “told you so!”…sign it “the Habberdasher” or sumpin.

  37. Danno says:

    Hi Dave! When will you be presenting PK with your coveted hat trick pin? And will there be a video of this special event for us to see?

  38. Clay4bc says:

    PK reminds me of Larry Robinson…

  39. The Juice says:

    When was the last time any rookie D-Man in the NHL had a hat trick?

  40. notbigbird says:

    Odd thing this morning. When I clicked into the new hockey-io site, the recent articles were missing. When I accessed the old habs-io site and got redirected, all of the articles were here. Strange.

  41. rated_R says:

    Although I hate the site…the mobile version is much more better! Theres a comment section now!

  42. observer says:

    Just one more point to get to 88 points. Nine games to do it.

  43. Off-side says:

    Hmmm…I think I’ll come back to HIO for sure one day, but for now this is too frustrating.

    In other news, what the hell is going on in Coyote land? The stench from this potential deal is sickening. If this pulls through, Bettman’s as bad as the mafia.

  44. stroff says:

    sorry guys. not a fan of the new site..

  45. Chester says:

    What has happened to this site.
    It looks like the CNN home page, complete with all the annoying advertisments…
    This used to be a hockey blog.

  46. Timo says:

    So, is that Gravatar thing work only with internet explorer? Can’t get mine to work.
    Why do you guys feel there is a need to change the layout and features of the site. Need to keep somebody employed? Sheesh.

  47. Off-side says:

    Still don’t see the author’s name, Dave. Is it because I’m using an IPhone?

  48. Off-side says:

    My frustrations with the site are as follows (unless I’m missing it…):

    1) Please indicate who writes the posts like before

    2) How do you reply to someone’s comment (creating a thread)

    3) How do you add an image to your name

    Change is great and so far the site looks pretty good.

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