Nothing to talk about in NHL lockout … really?

commissionerweb

It’s hard to believe, but as the NHL lockout reached its 62nd day on Friday the two sides had nothing to talk about.

And, with no new labour talks planned, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has suggested to players’ association chief Donald Fehr that they take a two-week break from negotiations. The two sides haven’t met and have barely talked since last Sunday and frustration is mounting, along with some anger.

“I think what you have seen is disappointment with where we find ourselves in the process,” NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Friday in an email to The Associated Press. “I don’t think it’s a case of personal animosity.”

Daly said Thursday that he is more discouraged now than at any other point in the process.

“Gary suggested the possibility of a two-week moratorium,” Daly told The Associated Press. “I’m disappointed because we don’t have a negotiating partner that has any genuine interest in reaching an agreement. Zero interest.”

You can read more by clicking here.

Gazette sports editor Stu Cowan wonders if it might be time for new people to take over at the negotiating table. How about Mario Lemieux to represent the owners and Bobby Orr to represent the players with Ken Dryden as a mediator? Read more by clicking here.

If you want to read some good news about hockey, The Gazette’s Brenda Branswell has a story about Luc Robitaille being inducted into the Quebec Sports Hall of Fame on Monday and how he earned the nickname “Lucky Luc”. You can read it by clicking here.

Former Canadiens president Ronald Corey will also be inducted into the Quebec Sports Hall of Fame. You can read Branswell’s story about Corey by clicking here.

(Photo by Bruce Bennett/Getty Images)

207 Comments

  1. gloing12 says:

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  2. habstrinifan says:

    Bill Simmons article on Gary Bettman details Bettman misguided stewardship of the league very well. Bettman is like a CEO who doesnt know his product, its market, and its customers…. much less its historicaal framework for success. So what did Bettman do? He went to Barnes and Nobles, purchased “League Commissioning for Dummies” and applied them all to his tenureship.
    Bad expansion! Bad ad dollars focus! Grand designs! etc etc.

    And we have the result. Which is why I have posted several times during this lockout. Bettman aint coming through this unscathed! No WAY!

    • doogie says:

      good article, just read it….Simmons jokes…..”Bettman’s former boss, David Stern, planting him in the NHL to ruin hockey, a few readers e-mailed me wondering if that could be legitimately true. What other explanation could there be? How could someone be this bad for this long?”

  3. Mondou6 says:

    Habfan posted this already, but it is hilarious enough to repost. Bill Simmons on Bettman:

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8639525/just-go-away-gary

    My favorite part:

    “The case against Bettman in one sentence: The NHL sacrificed an entire season so they could reimagine their entire salary structure … and only seven years later, that “reimagining” went so poorly that they might have to sacrifice a second season because they need a mulligan.

    That’s all you need to know. I didn’t even need to bring up the league’s botched television deals, overexpansion, poorly picked markets, belated acknowledgement of the concussion epidemic, or more incredibly, how they stupidly forgot to limit the length of contracts.”

  4. Boomer says:

    “it wasn’t that bad a hit”… Ryan left his feet! two minutes in this game I can tell this commentator’s either a huge leafs fan or an idiot… Probably both.

  5. Boomer says:

    Just tuned in… 5-0 Marlies… OUCH

  6. jedimyrmidon says:

    I should just not watch these games… seems every time they get blown out.

    • jedimyrmidon says:

      Although I guess the Marlies with Acton, Ranger, Zigomanis, Kostka, Aucoin, Hamilton, Komarov, etc, etc, kinda have a *huge* advantage in veteran players.

  7. jols101 says:

    Either the Dogs are still asleep or the Marlies are really bringing it today. Hard to tell. Combination of both maybe.

  8. HabinBurlington says:

    Beaulieu a heatlhy scratch today, according to Shannon. Sounds like a result of bad penalty taken yesterday.

    Edit: Doesn’t appear the lockout has stopped Joe Bowen from finding the buffet table. Holy Mackinaw!

    • jols101 says:

      A little tough love for Beaulieu. Not a terrible thing. These kids were all super stars all through minor hockey and Junior and bonehead plays were largely tolerated. Just a little wake up call. You are in the Pros now; a different level of accountability and expectations.

      Edit: not tough love at all, he is injured. Shitty.

  9. Mavid says:

    ooooh thanks for letting us know about the game I had no idea..it beats finishing my housework..

  10. HabinBurlington says:

    Reminder for those interested in watching, Bulldogs vs. Marlies is on at 3pm on Sportsnet.

    Enjoy! Go Dogs Go!

  11. HabFab says:

    A general comment on today’s posts. There is a fear of fans losing their passion for the game but obviously not here…then again HIO posters have always been the creme de la creme ;)

    • commandant says:

      As I said in one post… there is a clear distinction between Die Hards and Casual fans. If you post at H I/O you are likely a die hard hockey fan who might boycott the NHL for a short time, but lets be honest, the vast majority of us will go crawling back within a few months of the end of the lockout, if not sooner.

      The Casual fans, they aren’t posting on H I/O, and they are the bigger worry.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • Mr. Biter says:

        Don’t know if I’d boycott the game but definatly not buy any merchandise (hit them both in the wallet) and the “Passion” would depend how the Habs are doing as If Habs don’t play I don’t watch. Exceptions World Jrs. and Olympics.
        Actually for fans to send their displeasure with the talks don’t buy any Team merchandise till after the strike and even then wait before you buy anything.

        Mr. Biter
        No Guts No Glory

      • Commandant,
        I disagree…the casual fan doesn’t care all that much and isn’t too disturbed by the lockout (some barely even notice)…it’s the die hard fan that is most affected by the lockout and may be upset enough to boycott when hockey comes back.

        I am a die hard but no matter what I’ll be back the first game back…even if the season is cancelled, i won’t miss a Habs game no matter what.

        In fact I’m hopeful that once this is resolved, even if it takes a lost season the game will be healthier than ever with more revenue sharing, expansion to Quebec and Markham and maybe elsewhere.
        Telio
        The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site: http://teliopost.com/
        Twitter: @teliopost

  12. commandant says:

    Collberg with 2 goals today (game in third period).

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  13. Habitted says:

    Hey guys, anyone know of a quality stream (available in Europe) for this afternoon’s bulldogs game? Sportsnet or TVA are both fine.

  14. twilighthours says:

    I don’t get how Chris’ and commandant’s informative posts can fall on such deaf ears (or blind eyes).

    • Ron says:

      What gives you that impression twilight. Most read the comments.

    • HabFab says:

      Because they focus on one side only. This fiasco has a multitude of villains and to support one view against all others is __________!

      For the record, my second biggest pi$$ off in this sordid affair is having to defend the NHL against intelligent, articulate gentlemen such as those you have named.

      • Chris says:

        Believe me, I’m not focusing on one side only. In the last lockout, I was all for a salary cap, which was explicitly against the players and for the owners.

        I am also generally vehemently anti-union. I don’t like or trust them in general.

        But in this case, I just think the NHL have behaved like utter jerks right from the outset of this process. There was never any chance that we were not heading for a lockout this season. The owners absolutely wanted one. This was obvious from their posturing last season, their initial CBA proposal that was universally panned as one of the most insulting starting points ever put forward and their continued “last offer” posturing.

        In the last CBA, the owners got what they wanted, an airtight hard salary cap that was one of the toughest in professional sports around the world. That this **still** couldn’t protect the owners from themselves is just laughable.

        • HabFab says:

          Chris, can’t argue with those points but I could list a bunch of sins from the other side which I’m tired of repeating. They are both a-holes and share the blame for this CRAP. What percentage depends at what point in the timeline.

          PS Still love you brother :)

    • HabinBurlington says:

      What is good about this site is that there are intelligent posters bringing up points from both sides perspective, thus allowing a person to realize both sides have ugly warts.

    • frontenac1 says:

      Probably because some still cling to the romantic notion that the NHL is still a competitive “business”. Whereas, it has become a parade of vulgarity, a corrupt shakedown by whores and pimps. Make no mistake Twi, the Owners know they have us just as the pusher knows he has his junkie. And like all junkies we will be there for him to buy that hit,even if he has raised the price and cut the fix with drano and it will feel good just like the last one. Saludos Amigo.

  15. Mr. Biter says:

    Watched my first hockey last night. Caught the last period of UND and UMD and OT (4-4 tie). BTW for the Politically correct, majority of fans still wearing “Fight Sioux” jerseys and Hoodies. They may be able to ban the name but can’t ban the fans from wearing the jerseys with the old logo. University has decieded to go with no new “nick name”.

    Mr. Biter
    No Guts No Glory

  16. Timo says:

    Eddie Schnieder is tired of the lockout? http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409693

    Is he one of the 8 who holds the ultimate power among the owners?

    • commandant says:

      This would be very good news if true. Snider has long been seen as an owner who advocated “breaking the union” in the last CBA talks and at the start of this one.

      I bet he’s changed his tune since 2005 as he now owns NBC after the 2010 Comcast takeover, and that he is still trying to get the NBCSportsNetwork to compete with ESPN, and CBSSportsNet he needs the content the NHL gives him, as he’s probably really hurting for content on the sports channel in primetime right now.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • HabFab says:

        It would be promising if correct. My fear would be that Fehr takes it as weakness and goes for a victory. A man like Snyder would sooner die then allow a Union win.

  17. Timo says:

    Just watched Mulan with my kid, so Bettman and Fehr:

    “Dishonor on you! Dishonor on your cow!!!!”

  18. Haborama says:

    Re ed lopez in regerds to the draft: I think we should STAY THE HECK AWAY from Drouin and Duclair, both are extremely small (Duclair is 5,10 and Drouin is 5,9) and both are injury prone. Both had very inflated stats (Droun was with McKinnon and Duclair was with Erne and Grigorenko)

    sorry but NO MORE SMURFS!! those days are supposed to be way behind us, and we have enough small prospects as it stands with the likes of Gallagher, Collberg, and Hudon.

    I personally think we should take either Anthony Mantha, Adam Erne, or William Carrier. Big talented forwards who would be much more valuable then more of the Same Old Smurf and Dance.

    • HammerHab says:

      HOLLA!

      edit: I’m not totally against smurfs, just against having a whole village of ‘em. I really like Gallagher (anybody else see glimpes of Cammalleri in him?) but you should never have a line in the NHL with more than 1 guy below 6′ IMO

      ———————————–

      It’ll always be Habs Inside/Out to me

    • scuba says:

      I agree with the team looking for some more size but after watching about 15 Mooseheads games this year I can say that Drouin’s stats are not inflated by playing with MacKinnon. It may even be the other way around. In those 15 games I would say Drouin was the best player on the ice in about 12 of them. He consistantly outplays and outpoints Mackinnon.
      It happened again last night where Mackinnon played great with a goal and two assists but Drouin was selected a star ahead of him with four assists. He is now listed at 5,11 but that seems to be inflated. I still think Mackinnon will be the number one overall pick but if I had to select one or the other to play at the WJC I would pick Drouin and it’s not even close. Thats how highly I think of him.

    • neumann103 says:

      How is 5′ 10″ extremely small?

      I understand the size matters argument I just don’t get how people can make these doctrinaire judgements based on a couple of inches. If he was 2 or 3 inches taller would he suddenly be huge? Does weight count for anything? Does strength?

      Admittedly I would have to see something really special in a player to pick a Gionta-sized guy. And all things being equal I would prefer 6’2″ over 5’10” but there is just a huge disconnect in the all too common assertion that a 6’1″ player brings size but a 5’11” guy is a smurf.

      And Drouin’s stats were inflated by playing alongside that giant Nathan McKinnon?

      “Et le but!”

  19. Habs_4_ever says:

    A plague on both your houses.

    ————————
    “Leave the gun, take the cannoli.”

  20. The Dude says:

    Being a Habs fan for 50 years,I got to say I love this strike! The longer this goes on, the faster all the bad contracts go away AND I DON’T HAVE TO WATCH GOMER SUCK,Gionta get injured,Price get creamed and let in soft goals,Armstrong get pummeled,opposing forwards making the front of our net a homestead,the domino injury effect and a group of fourth liners for an expansion team in the K.H.L.being used as scoring forwards”Niko,Blunden etc.” I’m not missing the rebuilding either….sleep Habs sleep! And “in Canada” all those bitching bout Bettman but whom voted for the Harper regime don’t have a say “NO MORE!”

    • HabinBurlington says:

      The City of Hamilton doesn’t have the best track record in working with owners of Pro teams. David Braley got fed up with them and sold the Ti-Cats, now it appears they are doing there best work at screwing it up with the Dogs. I don’t see how a Junior team is going to generate more revenue for the City through this arena deal. I am not sure how the scheduling would work, but seems to me if Toronto can share a building with an NBA and NHL team, you would think a Junior team could co-exist with an AHL team.

      Somehow, I can picture the end result being Dogs move to Quebec and Junior hockey lasts about 3 years in Hamilton before moving on and the building sits empty. That would be about as successful as the Thinktank at Hamilton City Hall could do things.

      • Chuck says:

        They had their chance at that world-class velodrome and cycling training centre, and pissed that away. It looks like they’re doing the same thing with a new casino, which would bring a lot of much-needed revenue (and jobs) to the centre of the city. Heck, they even managed to screw up the new stadium.

        If there’s one thing that Hamilton city council does well, it’s look a gift horse in the mouth.

        ___________________________________________________
        Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

      • commandant says:

        The problem is not the scheduling, its the competition in the marketplace.

        Given that Erie recently re-upped their lease in that city, and Brampton is headed to North Bay. I don’t see what Junior Team the city is courting.

        They could end up with nothing if they play these cards wrong.

        Go Habs Go!
        Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

  21. HabinBurlington says:

    Given the BlueJays recent acquisitions, I wonder if John Farrell’s dream job is now to manage the BlueJays? ;-)

  22. HabFab says:

    A game blog of last nights Dogs game. A day late and dollar short however there was a request;
    http://awinninghabit.com/2012/11/16/hamilton-vs-toronto-game-thou/

  23. rhino514 says:

    Regarding the comments below:

    1) Nobody is banking on Kristo. I feel he is one of those players who is in a group of 4 or 5 where probably ONE guy is going be somewhat of an impact player at the NHL level. People talked about him alot prior to June because the organization was not deep with prospects. If he surprises, great. To me he´s not worth thinking about too much.

    2) The articles in the Edmonton Journal (I forget the reporter´s name) I feel best sum up this dispute. It is indeed not about morality; it is about leverage. The league has been immoral. There is such a thing as negotiating in good faith and with the interest of the game in one´s mind. The league has done neither.
    Their initial proposal really was an insult. But to see this more clearly, let´s stop talking about concessions for a second, since many on here don´t agree on who should offer/take what. Has anyone actually LISTENED to the way Gary Bettman and Daly talk about the players to reporters? Just listen to the way Fehr handles himself as opposed to the other two. Bettman and Daly have attempted to manipulate the press and public opinion far moreso than their opponent. They talk about the players as if they are children, really. They also constantly impose “deadlines” and “final offers” when they are clearly nothing of the sort. Why? Perhaps they would not be so arrogant if the status of the NHL as the sole important league were nto be threatened one day. One wouldn´t see prolonged lockouts then.

    3) I place the blame more on Bettman than the actual owners, because owners will always try to maximize their profit to the last available cent. They are first and foremost businessmen. But the commissioner, IMHO, is actually supposed to care about the good of the game. Granted he represents the owners, in our current format, but he should also try and make them malleable to the interest of the game. He should also be somewhat of a go-between. He should be a statesman for the game.

    4) Regardless of who I sympathize more with, I do think there is alot of truth to the fact that neither Fehr nor Bettman are “hockey” guys and i honestly think the game would be better served if we had hockey guys in charge.
    Perhaps I am naive, but I see hockey as different than football or basketball. It should not be PURELY seen in terms of simply a business. For Canadians, at any rate, the game has a value far beyond money, and the game loses this value when it is put in the hands of American interests and people who have not been involved with the game. The expansion into some sunbelt areas is just one example of this. Heck, Bettman may well even really care about the game deep down, but he cannot UNDERSTAND it the way Canadians do. Sure the game has gotten bigger; that´s what Americans do; they make everything BIGGER. But hasn´t the integrity of the game suffered, hasn´t its real value been diluted?

    • wjc says:

      Rino514: Hockey is a business, owned by businessmen.

      If the NHL was not a business, it would cease to exist. It exist as a profit center. Bettman works the business and grows it by billions of dollars.

      Make no mistake the NHL is “purely a business”. It has been a business from day 1….1917. The United States is where most of the growth will come from.

      From a romantic point of view some people like to see it a pure sport owned and played for the love of the game. I like that, but it is not reality. Hockey is a business played by players for money generated from fans who pay for the privalege of watching teams they cheer for play.

      It does not matter if Fehr or Bettman know which end of a hockey stick is which. They for now are negotiating about money and rights etc.

      Bettman could care less where the game is played, he is just following the money. If you grow teams in the sun belt, you grow the league and money generated. NBC contracts become possible, Pay-per-view becomes big (center ice packages etc.)

      You have to realize that the only place owners compete is on the ice. They are part of a 30 man business and support one another. They share revenue’s as part of a system and a business plan that allows time for expansion to pay off.

      Bigger means profits….bigger league, bigger profits. The game does not have integrity, it is an object. It is a spectacle, it is not of the real world, it is an experience. If you think about it, it really amounts to nothing. Chicago wins the Stanley cup, how does your life change, improve. It is just a head trip for some and at the end of the day some are richer, owners/players and fans who pay the way have an emotional trip.

      Hockey has no real value except to the players who play and the owners who own, and the media that report.

      The fans have an illusion of being a part of it all and that is all.

      You watch a movie, you feel like you are a part of the action, but really you are in your seat, and when the movie ends you go home.

      Hockey does not have a value beyond money, unless reliving a game in your head has a value to you.

      wjc

    • Mr. Biter says:

      If Kristo is playing for UND (I’m pretty he is) whenever he was on the ice last night he was mentioned numerous times on every shift. I’ll watch the whole game tonite and keep my eye on him and report back tomorrow.

      Mr. Biter
      No Guts No Glory

  24. Habfan10912 says:

    From a twiiter post.

    Why the NHL needs to rid themselves of Gary Bettman – Grantland
    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8639525/just-go-away-gary

    ———————————–

    • Mike D says:

      LOVED that article! Great find, Jim!

      – Honestly yours
      Twitter: @de_benny

      • commandant says:

        Bill Simmons isn’t known for hockey stuff. If he’s noting the lockout and the hate on Bettman, its getting to serious territory and more than just hardcore hockey fans (those who love hockey too much, and who will still buy the tickets and come crawling back) now.

        I think we’ are at the precipice of angering the casual fan, and that is what happened to baseball in 1995. If the Casual fans are angered and stop buying tickets this could have a big impact in the US.

        Go Habs Go!
        Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • Chris says:

          Simmons goes back and forth. He grew up rooting for the Bruins, and he’s written about hockey off and on over the years.

          He got more into it during the NBA lockout, getting himself season tickets to the Kings, and he loved it. This is the most tragic thing of this lockout…the NHL was really poised to benefit from the NBA and NFL labour strife and then threw it all away with this labour strife of their own.

        • neumann103 says:

          Ben,

          The point about the casual fan is a good one. What astonishes me most about this lockout is how stakeholders seem to underestimate how this can kill the momentum built. I really think that fans lost in marginal markets are going to be hard to win back. All these calculations of future HRR are going to look awfully silly if attendance in Raleigh and Nashville and Miami drop back to historical levels.

          Simmons has mentioned a couple of times that while he is a casual fan of hockey, his young daughter has somewhat inexplicably embraced the game. I think his perspective, as usual, is interesting.

          A lot of people respond to criticism of Bettman with the “he is just doing the owners’ will” answer. While oversimplifying and massively understanding how much Bettman leads the owners, it is valid in the personal sense ( It’s his job to be a dick).

          My criticism of Bettman is not that he is a dick, or he is not a hockey guy, or he has short man syndrome, or that he favours propping up Sunbelt franchises, although undoubtedly all of those things are true. My criticism lies in things like those Simmons describes: you have this record of interruptions and stoppages and conflict.

          My reason to get rid of Bettman is not that he is an evil little troll, it is that in his tenure, the NHL has lost more of its regular play to work stoppages than all other major league sports put together. By the time we get to the end of this current nightmare, close to 10% of his tenure will have been lost to stoppages.

          There is no legitimate reason that NHL labour relations should be som much more problematic than other sports. The NHLPA is not as powerful or militant as the Baseball players or NBA crowd. The owners are not as evl as in the NFL. Hockey players by nature are more self effacing and accommodating. Hell, they are Canadians and Swedes fer chrissakes.

          Too much hockey, too much momentum, too much opportunity has been lost while Bettman played his little games. Someone else could have “overseen” the growth of the game just as well without being a millstone.

          All the while he has courted frauds to enter the ranks of NHL owners and poured money into situations like Phoenix. For the love of God, this handling of Phoenix alone is reason enough to get rid of him. If i were an owner being asked to contribute a millon or so dollars a year for 4 years!!! to keep Phoenix alive because Bettman didn’t want to let the franchise move to quebec or sell to Jim Balsille I would be freakin’ livid. After all, as so many are keen to point out, it is a business.

          “Et le but!”

    • That’s a crazy rant!…I posted it on Teliopost! thanks.

      Telio

      The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site: http://teliopost.com/
      Twitter: @teliopost

    • Mike D says:

      Thank for finding and posting this, Jim. After reading it, I must admit I disagree with the writer. Unless I misunderstood something, Mr. Adler is attempting to absolve Bettman of any wrong doing regarding his whole 2 week break suggestion by telling the reader, “hey Don Fehr told Gary he didn’t know how to proceed from here so Gary simply suggested a break, that’s all”. He also stated that Gary told Don he could contact him anytime over the 2 weeks if he had any ideas worth discussing. That may or may not be true, but it’s the first I’ve heard of it.

      What Mr. Adler seems to gloss over so nicely in this article is that Gary simply saying ‘2 weeks’ is in fact a pressure tactic because it imposes and proposes a fixed amount of time….one that happens to coincide with the players missing another paycheque. Couldn’t Gary have just said, “Don, take some time and talk to the players and get back to us as soon as you have something so we can hammer this out” and NOT give him the 2 week time frame? To me that seems far less confrontational and doesn’t give the “line in the sand” impression.

      Reading Adler’s view, he would have you believe it’s all the same thing, but in reality it is far from the same. Bettman simply saying ‘2 weeks’ changes things dramatically.

      If anything, Adler’s the one being economical with the truth.

      – Honestly yours
      Twitter: @de_benny

      • HabFab says:

        After reading thru these posts here, don’t believe there is much passion being lost amongst hockey fans. We all have strong opinions still on the rights and wrongs being played out here.

        • Mike D says:

          Absolutely right, Frank.

          As for my standpoint, I think there’s plenty of blame to go around. Bettman, Daly, the Fehr’s, the owners, and the players are all ‘guilty’ on different levels and in different ways.

          What makes me tend to side with the players more is that the League-side has given me the impression they are attempting to bully the PA-side. Their first proposal was insulting, they put pre-conditions on meetings, they’ve said ‘this is our final offer’ at least twice, and now this 2 week break they’ve suggested. That on top of the fact that it seems to me the league is asking for a lot but doesn’t seem to reciprocate and give anything back.

          None of us are privy to what’s REALLY happening so we rely on what we read/hear/watch, but from a PR standpoint, the league and Bettman are taking a beating!

          – Honestly yours
          Twitter: @de_benny

          • wjc says:

            The first proposal was exactly what the players had. 57 to 43%. So to say this is insulting to the players, is to say the owners had a really bad deal going.

            The players make plenty of dough. Do people see this, clearly.

            The owners are not satisfied with their deal. Do people see this.

            Players would have continued to play under this agreement. Do people see why.

            Owners were not interested in playing off this agreement. Do people see why.

            So Bettman says take two weeks off, we are in no hurry. Players look at another pay day missed. They start to panic a bit, about fuggin time, WAKE UP….clocks a ticken…..get off your r’s and get serious Fehr. This is not going to end well…..December 1st comes and the another pay day 15th looking to be lost.

            Get serious, owners are not going to work under this agreement.

            wjc

  25. HabinBurlington says:

    I was unable to watch the Dogs game last night, but noticed Avtsin scored a goal. Did he look pretty good? This kid has all kinds of talent and for whatever reason has not been able to put it together in the AHL. I am hopeful he may finally do so. He is probably from an offensive perspective, the most talented forward on that Bulldog team.

    • commandant says:

      1g 1a from him. lots of shots on net. Certainly had a good game generating offence.

      The question with him has never been talent, and it has never been his ability to have a good game. The question is if he can be consistent enough to string a number of good games together.

      I hope so, because the skill set is excellent, the size is also a nice asset, and the kid could be a really good player. But after two years of watching him, call me skeptical that he ever puts it all together consistently.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Perhaps the constant coaching carousel in Hamilton the past few years, and constant calling up of players from the Dogs to the Habs didn’t help either. I realize I am grasping at straws, but I do hope he is given this season still to show us something. The potential upside is too good to give up on yet I think.

      • ed lopaz says:

        he has had the same hand injury 2 years in a row which never seems to get any ink around here.

        I believe in this young man but I don’t think the Habs do.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Well he is still with them and there is a new staff in Hamilton and Montreal which hopefully will give him a chance Ed. I am with you in believing in the young man also. With regards to the hand injury, I do recall seeing that also. Did he have problems with it again at the start of this season?

        • Habfan10912 says:

          Ed, was that the reason he did not dress for many games this year? It was my understanding he was a healthy scratch.

          ———————————–

      • frontenac1 says:

        Also noticed in the last few games that Nate Beaulieu has a welcome nasty streak. I like that. Kujawinski was really clicking last night with Billy Jenkins and Sam Schutt with the Fronts.
        Go Als Go GSP Go Dogs and Go Fronts!

    • neumann103 says:

      Gerry

      Two years ago he looked like the Habs best forward prospect. The skills are there. Maybe he puts it together.

      What impressed me on the goal last night was the hands, and the hand eye coordination. He deflected the point shot, knocked the rebound out of the air and then buried the second rebound all in a space less than two seconds. It was like tap tap tap.
      In real time I thought the third shot – the one that actually went in – was off the shaft of the stick but I think that was just the camera angle. In any event if hand injuries have been an issue it is reassuring. And the kid looked pretty happy and even more relieved. I hope it helps his mental game.

      By accounts that I read he had a tough time adjusting in his first AHL season. Not sure how much of a role injuries played inhis second. I hope this is a turnaround but the prospect pool is in much better shape now, so getting Avtsin would essentially be gravy.

      The Gallagher goal was special. Exactly what you want to see from a sniper on the PP. Gallagher set himself up in shooting position 10 feet from the side of the net. Bournival kept the play alive with possession down low and found Gallagher who just buried the one timer. I didn’t even see the shot until the replay. (the view was partially blocked by Gallagher’s body but it was just in the back of the net, lightning quick).

      And you have to love Gallagher’s reaction. Jumps in the air with a big smile and the immediately starts looking for Bournival who he knows did 70% of the work resulting in that goal.

      edit – not that other events were not significant or other players not deserving of attention but I left to play hockey myself not soon after. really only saw that section of the game.

      “Et le but!”

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Thanks bud, it can only help the team having Desjardins back as well. Having some consistent quality goaltending will make everyone on that team better.

        Noticed TSN’s highlight of the night from last night was his save on Gardner. You going to the game at Ricoh tonight? Hobie is apparantly going to be there.

        CHeers Neumann!

        • neumann103 says:

          I am afraid of being a jinx. I went to the last Saturday game, again after the Bulldogs had beaten the Marlies on Friday night. That one was the 5-0 disaster.

          But seriously this game is a 3:00PM start and my kid who has been sick most of the week (and going stir crazy) wants to go to the Science Centre this afternoon so I probably can’t. I have been checking just in case and there are tickets still available in decent areas.

          Ironically the last Staurday Dogs at Marlies game was supposed to be a 3:00PM start but they moved to 7:00PM because of the lack of NHL counterprogramming. That one was actually a pain because I was playing hockey at 10:00PM that night. This one I wish they had moved.

          “Et le but!”

  26. 24 Cups says:

    Ed:

    Which is why I’m worried about there not being a season this winter. Our chances of getting a top five pick would be in the 10% range in the lockout goes all year long. I realize there are other good players available but I would really like to see the Habs land a true star prospect to compliment Price, Subban and Galchenyuk. Right now there appear to be five can’t miss gems at the top of this year’s draft list.

    Montreal will have one ball in the lottery draft. If it turns out to be a low end pick, then the team’s 2nd rounder becomes much higher in the order.

    Calgary will have three balls in the draft. Which might mean they get a higher pick which would lower the 2nd rounder they traded to Montreal.

    Nashville will only have one ball in the draft which might help enhance Montreal’s acquired 2nd rounder.

    If there is a season, and Montreal misses the playoffs again, then the team’s odds of getting one of the top five star players increases to 35%.

    The key to the 3rd rebuilding plan (in ten years!) is hitting one more homerun in the lottery draft. Everything else, including a life and death run at 8th place, is secondary.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Yes 24, while all those 2nd round picks could be helpful, this team does need one more “franchise” type draftpick. I am hopeful somehow that we could find a short season, we have a couple players who could be traded near deadline and really help our drafting position.

      I too am fearful that with no season, the lottery process could hurt us.

    • ed lopaz says:

      just from my local perspective either Jonathan Drouin or Anthony Duclair would be perfect – both are fantastic prospects in my opinion.

      Droiun will go top 10. Duclair between 15 and 30.

      Both will be top notch left wingers at the NHL level; both give 100% every night; both can skate like the wind; both can score or create; both play all 3 zones with the same energy.

    • New says:

      The draft speaks to everything that is wrong with the NHL. People working hard to learn the entry level essentials are told they may only work for one of 30 franchises, unless the franchise throws them away, or at FA time decides not to pay them what someone else will. The someone else is then free to change their mind but while the pay remains the same the working location, level of play, and even if you play at all, remains out of the employee’s hands. Mention that the employer may not be providing the conditions favorable to success within the company (Roy and Cammi) and you are gone, your family uprooted, and the teams chances diminished to a greater degree. Proving that it is not about winning and never was.

      The NHL is a monopoly. The draft is a prime example.

      The NHLPA might as well recognize the issue. The NHL fixes prices (salary cap), and their NHL destiny. Then it circumvents the cap for certain powerful owners as it suits them. The NHL controls all aspects of the game. They even decided to take custody of the primacy trophy.

      You can not fight a monopoly by arguing with it. Arguements don’t matter. Only competition matters. Two or more monopolies struggling against each other (yes I know) matter. And for their part a great many NHL players are overpaid, highly overpaid, based on how the team used them not a difference between skill levels. Not to say hockey players are equal, they’re not. But it isn’t baseball where all you need to do is juice and earn.

      Half the NHL players never play more than a season. One season. Only 6% ever get more than 5 years. Sure if you’ve got your agent a sweet 12 year 100 million contract from a functionally foolish (I can say foolish?) GM you’re set but the overwhelming majority of players don’t get close to that in terms of years let alone pay.

      The NHLPA is in the wrong on this lockout. The NHL is represented by just what you believe they are represented by. That is what monopolies are made of. If the PA had gone out, and tabled a plan to form their own co-op league, then we’d have another issue. Right now the issue is the owners make money, the players don’t. Play and the owners make more money and the players get paid.

      Stupid is as stupid does.

  27. Kristopher7 says:

    Wow some people have too much time on their hands. Case in point, JBellyful. Did you write that hyperbolic velum in Word and constantly quick save in case the OS crashed? Or, did you just copy paste it off Google. I really you hope you find something better to
    do with your time.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Really? JB is a very funny guy and I hope he continues to find time to provide some very witty posts. I hope you didn’t spend too much of your precious time reading his post.

    • Chrisadiens says:

      JB is one of our most beloved posters here on HIO. His creativity is second to none. His posts (along with a few others) are the only reason I even read this site during the lockout.

      I see you do not post very often and for that I am glad. I really hope you find something better to do with YOUR time. Your personal attacks are not welcome here.

      Chrisadiens and HabFan10912, one of the few father son tandems on HIO.

    • JohnBellyful says:

      Your concern for my use of time is most comforting. Not to worry. I somehow manage.
      And no, I didn’t copy and paste the “velum” off Google. I got it from Gag-gle.
      Get it, gag. As in joke. Gag. Gaggle … stop it, JB, you’re killing me. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
      [System error. Shutting down]

    • Habfan10912 says:

      “I really you hope you from something better to do with your time”. Huh?
      Congrats! First troll of the day and like your brother, you can’t type either.

      ———————————–

  28. Chris says:

    To those that continually assert that Donald Fehr is the problem here, can you tell me what concessions the NHL has made to the players in return for their myriad demand of concessions from the players?

    1. 50/50 split of hockey revenues. (After initial proposal of 47/53 split).
    2. Re-definition of hockey-related revenues in favour of owners. (No movement on this re-definition, a highly contentious point from the players as it effectively changes the 50/50 split to something MUCH more favourable to the owners.)
    3. UFA status delayed by one year, to 8 years of NHL service or age 28. (After initial proposal of 10 years of NHL service or age 30).
    4) Maximum 5-year length on contracts.
    5) Teams can take players to salary arbitration in any year that players can take teams to arbitration and arbitration eligibility delayed by one year. (After initial proposal to eliminate arbitration altogether)
    7. Changing entry-level contracts from 3 years to 2 years. (After initial non-starter proposal to actually extend the length of entry-level contracts).
    8. League minimum must be met without use of performance bonuses that are unlikely to ever be met.
    9. Any players on one-way NHL contracts will count against the salary cap even if the player is playing in the minors or overseas.
    10. Make-whole provision, where contracts will be honoured by deferred payments made over the lifetime of the contract from league revenues. (As opposed to the initial proposal that would have seen the players asked to make-whole their own contracts).

    Of that list, two could be considered actual concessions to the players: reduced entry-level contract durations and salary cap floors having to be met without use of performance bonuses. And one of those is actually a shot at the players as well, as the NHL gets out of paying contracts to prospects that don’t make it after those first two years, so the average NHL player, the kids who only play 1-2 seasons in the first place, lose one year of their pay. I understand that most people see this as acceptable, but I also understand that the players that make up their union might see this as unacceptable.

    But of the other items, most of which are the real sticking points, every single one of them favours the NHL. Where the NHL has “negotiated” their demands downwards, the initial demand was so preposterously inane that the players would have to have been absolute stupid to even contemplate it as a starting point of negotiations.

    These negotiations are between the NHL and the NHLPA, not individual owners and the NHLPA. The NHL has just enjoyed record revenues AND profits over the past CBA. The LEAGUE has never been healthier financially, yet they are coming out insisting on what is a rather draconian set of demands for concessions from players.

    This is effectively the same as an oil company or bank, two other entities that have enjoyed record profits in recent years, turning around and asking their employees to accept austerity measures in terms of their negotiating rights.

    Or to take it even further, it is like a bully going to a kid and stealing his lunch money. After “negotiation”, the bully concedes to give back 10% of the lunch money to the victim. And the bully is lauded for his willingness to negotiate.

    The NHL came in with an initial proposal that was nothing short of an attempt to bully the players. They have “softened” off that initial proposal, and have now given a “no further negotiation” proposal where the players still lose on numerous fronts and the league essentially gives nothing in return. That is where we are at.

    Yes, the players are greedy and overpaid and everything else that has been said about them. But the NHL has been absolutely loathsome in this process and, as always happens, have been successful in waiting out the public’s appetite for professional sports to ultimately cover up the fact that they had zero interest in negotiating fairly or transparently.

    • Dust says:

      You forgot increasing revenue sharing.
      So lets play devils advocate.
      What concessions have the players made
      well their offer included no changes to contracting issues
      a small raise in each of the next 3 years on a fixed rate not related to HRR.
      If(and this is a big if) the leagues revenue continue to grow…eventually it’ll get to 50/50.
      Nhl pays the players for lost time due to lockout.
      SO the players have given up nothing except maybe some potential salary if revenue grows.

      At least the nhl has gone down in their demands and added to revenue sharing… the PA has offered the same deal since the beginning

      • Chris says:

        I left out increased revenue sharing because that is not a concession to the players, but a redistribution of wealth amongst the owners.

        My main point is that in a time when the NHL was as healthy as it has ever been, it was a little strange to come in guns blazing about contract negotiation rights on top of the changed shares of revenues that everybody, including the players, accepted were going to change in this CBA.

        • HabFab says:

          ” it was a little strange to come in guns blazing about contract negotiation rights”
          Maybe the fear of Fehr factor in this. He is the best and the NHL hired a whole law firm to counter him. And I believe a lot of their initial proposal was a big stick reaction to him and the NHLPA. I disagree with some of what you are saying because I’m not pro players nor am I pro owners.
          My second biggest PO over this whole affair has been having to defend the NHL against the pro union faction. So today I’m not going to.
          IMO going into this and for the good of the game, the following was needed;
          – more equitable division of the HRR, the owners needed at least 4-5% more (they want 7%)
          – an improved Revenue Sharing system between the teams of at least 7% HRR (looks like where they are agreeing)
          – some adjustment to the contract system, as in an yearly contract variance amount of 10-20% (NHL wants 5%)
          – all else was status quo

          And as for NHLPA’s Contract protection demand, that is easily satisfied. By dropping the Cap 10% to $63.2 ml (soft cap 1st and hard 2nd year) with an amnesty buy out of at least one player per team with a contract of $3.5 ml plus any player on LTIR with little chance of ever returning, would put all teams except Minnesota within Cap. In fact by year two the $63.2 would be pretty close to the 50-50%. The paying the players for the games already locked out is a deal breaker in any negotiation.

      • commandant says:

        The NHLPA has given a ton of concessions including going from 57 percent of current revenues to 50.

        To take Chris’ post further… If I ask you to give me $100 and you say no, and then I say, fine, I’ll negotiate, give me $50 instead.

        Thats not a concession, thats just a reduction in my demands.

        The NHLPA has not demanded one thing in these negotiations. Everything done here is a concession.

        Go Habs Go!
        Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • I keep hearing people say the players agreed to a 50-50 revenue split.

          the problem is that the players and their supporters keep taking credit for a concession that it seems they haven’t even made!!

          According to the following article, the NHLPA offer that you claim is 50-50 actually ranges from 64% revenue going to the players up to 70% of revenue going to the players! In the 5th year of the deal it drops down to 52.4%
          going to the players.

          if the article is correct the players need to stop claiming that they are accepting a 50-50 split because they aren’t.

          http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/179740001.html

          Telio
          The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site: http://teliopost.com/
          Twitter: @teliopost

        • HabFab says:

          You are forgetting improved Revenue sharing and the make whole provision…just to be fair.

          • commandant says:

            The Make Whole provision?

            1st) even if true, all it does is pay the player the contracts they already signed. Saying…. Oh I’m going to give you what I already promised you, is not exactly a concession in my books.

            2nd) the PA disputes that the Make Whole even works… saying its 350 million short of “making whole”. Now I haven’t seen the offer, so I don’t know, but the two sides can’t even agree on what it does.

            As for Revenue sharing, all this does is help to avoid the need for future lockouts, it doesn’t actually give any tangible benefit to players.

            Go Habs Go!
            Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
            http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • Dust says:

          they have demanded raises over the next three years.

          • B says:

            and apparently the decoupling of their $s from revenues in their last offer. More concessions or just “moving the goal posts”? :(

          • commandant says:

            they have demanded that the revenues would drop slowly from 57 to 50% and that it wouldn’t happen in one fell swoop.

            They also said if there was 5% growth the cap would stay steady, and would only ask for a raise if the growth was greater than 5% in any of the three years it took to get to 50/50. Meaning if the NHL manages to grow revenues faster than expected, yeah, we’d still like our cut of the pie for the next three years.

            Thats not demanding a raise.

            seems to me that the NHL PR machine is working to great effect. Those guys deserve a raise.

            Go Habs Go!
            Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
            http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • scuba says:

          The NHLPA never said they would go from 57 to 50% of current revenues. They have offered to go from 57% of current revenues to 50% of future revenues. This is the whole difference in the debate.

    • Cal says:

      The bottom line is that only 100 players from the NHL will be accepted into other leagues to continue to make the crazy money they make in the NHL. The rest are way overpaid for the “entertainment” they provide. Perhaps, a real life type of job at nominal pay would awaken them to the every day economic realities for mostly everyone else.
      During these tough economic times, the players are looking like spoiled brats. The lowest of the low in the NHL had their salary almost tripled in the last 7 seasons. We can’t say that about any group of workers elsewhere. It’s time for the NHLPA to get real and stop pretending it’s their game. It isn’t. It belongs to the owners, rightly or wrongly.

      • Chris says:

        The owners can’t have a league without players. So, in essence, it is in fact both the owners’ and the players’ game.

        If we see another year lost to a lockout, I wouldn’t be stunned to see the players, in conjunction with some businessmen who weren’t quite slimy enough to meet the NHL’s rigid “due diligence” checks, to try and set up a smaller league. It will be a tough slog, but an interesting first step would be to negotiate a deal with the European leagues to crown a true world champion team, i.e., set up some sort of Champion’s League such as that seen in soccer.

        The NHL is banking on its brand, while the players are banking on that they have the talent that people want to see.

        As for the comment that the players are overpaid, this is unquestionably true. But I can’t really blame them that so many people in this society have far too much money on their hands and can afford to blow thousands of dollars per year on season tickets for a hockey team. I can assure you that it’s not my money that is supporting these “overpaid” athletes: I’ve long ago stopped going to NHL games as I can no longer afford the cost of the games, and the much cheaper OHL games are only slightly less entertaining.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Chris I find both sides equally stubborn in this negotiation. Also, many of the concessions which the owners are asking for are more of a return to conditions from the CBA prior to 2004. Essentially the NHL indeed gave a great deal of concessions in the previous go around in order to get the Salary Cap.

      I think the reality is that the NHL screwed up on how much value they placed in the Salary Cap and didn’t have enough conditions written in which prevented the owners from hurting themselves.

      I personally feel that Fehr’s goal has little to do with what is best for Hockey Players and this is more about him “winning” a negotiation in order to help establish his legacy. No doubt he is a great union leader, I just am not sure he has hockeys best interest in mind, just as I doubt Bettman has hockeys best interest in mind.

      • Chris says:

        A hard salary cap necessarily eliminates the need for all these other demands. You could wipe ALL of them out and nothing will change: each team still has ~$70 million (or ~$55-60 million when the 50/50 split is implemented).

        How teams spend their own capped pie is absolutely and utterly up to them. Why should the players further negotiate away their own ability to move around within that inflexible constraint?

        How is it Fehr’s fault that he can’t see the reason in protecting owners from themselves? I just can’t wrap my head around why the players should give a flying fig that some of the owners are predators and others are prey. There are ~800 players that have to get shared into 30*$70 million…how the owners decide to do that is their business.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          I agree in theory Chris, however, we have seen how foolish teams become in order to manipulate the cap space by signing players to ridiculous long term contracts, backloaded, etc…

          I just happen to think a person like Paul Kelly would have found a way to work within the framework of the Owners various offers and find wins for the players. My big issue with Fehr is that he doesn’t seem to be willing negotiate within the offers made by the owners. Until there is another league in North America which can offer the kind of money and perks which the NHL currently provides, they are the owners/bosses and the players need to find the best deal they can with that group. No doubt the current band of owners has many a bad apple in it and Bettman is their messenger. It would be a great time now for a WHA type league to try and create itself, but until such time there is only one NHL.

          It is a very frustrating time…

          • commandant says:

            IMO The 5% max variation on contracts. Or punishing teams by having them take future cap space even if a player retires would seem to get rid of the Luongo/Kovalchuk problem IMO. You don’t really need anything else

            Go Habs Go!
            Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
            http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • B says:

      “Or to take it even further, it is like a bully going to a kid and stealing his lunch money. After “negotiation”, the bully concedes to give back 10% of the lunch money to the victim. And the bully is lauded for his willingness to negotiate.”

      So after taking 57% of the lunch money (along with some major changes in their favour to free agency) in the last CBA, the PA should not be lauded if they negotiate to give back 7% of the lunch money?

      Perspective is interesting, how two people can look at the same thing yet describe it as something completely different.

      • Chris says:

        The 57% was already a concession in and of itself as 57% represented the first ever hard salary cap. I believe players had been getting more than that under the previous deal as the teams that could pay big salaries had absolutely no constraints and everybody else had to spend beyond their means to try and compete.

        I agree that perspective is everything. But I have seen no meaningful concessions whatsoever from the owners.

        The league is not in bad shape. Individual teams are in bad shape. If Donald Fehr was really sabre rattling, his take on it would be to remove the salary cap (and floor) once more and let teams spend their money as they see fit.

        If the league (rightfully) opposes that on competitive grounds, than they should expect to share the revenues that they do make. The league as a whole IS profitable. Individual teams are losing money.

  29. Here is an article concerning our debate a couple of weeks ago regarding whether or not the Panthers make a profit or not…unfortunately it is not 100% clear in it’s conclusions.

    for the most part it agrees with my point that they lose money on the hockey side and make their profits managing the building…
    Again, I understand that this article is not definitive.

    Telio

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2012/11/16/nhl-lockout-why-do-billionaires-keep-buying-teams-that-lose-money/

    The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site: http://teliopost.com/
    Twitter: @teliopost

    • HammerHab says:

      for someone who has a website like yours you sure are behind on all the talks…..ben’s covered the panthers thing quite a bit and shares “your point”, then the news about bozon you posted below is old news as well….

      ———————————–

      It’ll always be Habs Inside/Out to me

    • HabFab says:

      This was posted two days ago by Commandant. Again if it isn’t HRR, what is the point of the conversation? Of course all of the owners of the NHL teams have or make money in other businesses. If they didn’t they wouldn’t be able to own teams. To believe that they shouldn’t have to make money off their NHL teams is IMHO moronic!

      • commandant says:

        It isn’t part of HRR.

        However it does show owner greed, claiming that all these franchises are losing money when they aren’t.

        The big point here though is it isn’t just concerts and special events that are responsible for profit.

        Excluding the lockout year, the average net income for SSE was 9.9 million per year.

        In the lockout season that dropped to just over 1 million.

        Which shows how dramatic the effect the Panthers have on this business really is.

        Go Habs Go!
        Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • HabFab says:

          Nyet, nien, non and no!!

          Walks away shaking head and muttering to himself.

          • commandant says:

            “2. Hockey-related revenue is defined in such a way so as to maximize the appearance of losses on the hockey side. I expected to see that the Panthers were making good money on their arena deal; I was surprised to find that what was far and away their worst fiscal year coincided with the NHL lockout. If the Panthers were losing money but the arena business was profitable, we would not expect to see a major drop in SSE revenue in 2005; instead we saw a significant dip. (Note: judging by the email commentary I’ve received, this point is being missed by many readers. If the Panthers were acting as a drag on revenue, the 2005 lockout year should have been quite profitable for SSE; instead it was easily their worst fiscal year of the decade – JW.)”

            Note when the author says revenue here in this quote he should be saying NET Income, which is what the auditor’s report actually shows when you click through to it.

            Go Habs Go!
            Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
            http://lastwordonsports.com/

  30. 24 Cups says:

    Something has been bothering me ever since the latest entry draft took place last June.

    Most of us are quite giddy over the fact that Timmins was able to pick up some decent prospects due to the fact they all fell below their projected rankings. Does that mean he is a genius or does it just mean the other 29 teams were out to lunch? Is it even remotely possible that all 29 teams would pass on players such as Thrower, Bozon, Vail and Hudon? Or did all of those teams find these four prospects lacking something when they had the opportunity to select them at their projected ranking? Even though they are all playing well (except for Thrower) that question still lingers in my mind.

    What about Galchenyuk? I don’t think the Habs get much credit there, a hockey crazed teenager could have made that pick. The same goes for Collberg to a lesser degree (thank goodness for the Oilers brain cramp on that pick). The run on Dmen and goalies in the early picks also played a major roll on his availability in the 2nd round.

    I still can’t get excited about Kristo and I worry that Leblanc’s world is not unfolding as it should. On the other hand, I think you have to be pleasantly surprised by the upside of Ellis and Pateryn.

    My heart goes out to Blake Geoffrion. His chances were slim at best, but now it appears his window of opportunity has closed at the young age of 24. I sincerely hope that he makes a full recovery so he can lead a productive life.

    • habstrinifan says:

      May I answer one of yor questions. We, HABS fans, naturally focus on our signings and draft picks. And so Timmins seem to have overshadowed everyone else in his selections etc.

      Every now and then I listen to Ottawa sports radio and also catch a remark or two about other teams’s prospects. You may be surprised to know how enthusiastic those fans/commentators are about their teams’ prospects and the amazing job their staff did.

      Timmins by all a ccounts did a marvelous job. But other teams had their share of ‘genius finds’ too… according to their fans.

      I agree with you re Kristo, although I read in the posts where he has picked up his game.

      • 24 Cups says:

        I stand corrected, but I also believe the Habs have to sign Kristo by a certain date this year or else he becomes a UFA.

        • HabFab says:

          He has to be signed by August 15th and remains Hab property until then.
          The Wheeler/Schultz factor that worry some people would require him to quit school and declare himself a free agent. He pretty much has eliminated that possibility by entering his final year. His education and playing for his University team sounds like they are more important to him then becoming an UFA.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            My only fear with Kristo is that he may want to stay somewhat local and with the Minnesota team opening up its purse strings for Parise and Suter, he may be tempted to become a free agent and sign with them.

            However, given how much our front office has changed (and I think improved dramatically) we now have some good people in player development who can talk to Kristo and perhaps help get him excited to be a part of the Habs. Also, given we still lack depth in high end talent at the forward positions he may see an opportunity with Montreal for himself.

          • B says:

            The next CBA should give teams longer to sign their draft picks after they graduate from completing the NCAA. The current window is way too small.

    • HabFab says:

      I credit it to good luck more then anything. Every team ranks the players different and we were fortunate enough that these players all slid into our pick range. And only time tells on the rest but it is nice having 7 prospects averaging better then a point per game.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Morning 24, I think the Draft is more about who teams took rather than who they didn’t. A scout or a coach may see something the really like in a certain kid and in can influence them to draft that person 1 possibly 2 rounds higher than perhaps they should have.

      I am not sure but perhaps with the new regime this past draft, the chains were loosened up a bit for TImmins and he was able to simply draft the most talented players possible each round, regardless of some meddling GM who perhaps could cloud judgement. Having listened to the so called experts from the TSN etc…. most of them felt Montreal did an excellent job in the draft, so I perhaps Timmins just did do an excellent job and other teams over thought the process.

      As for Galchenyuk, I was high on him while he was still injured for Sarnia. The more reading I did on the kid just seemed to show what character and talent he had. Whether it was a difficult decision or not for Timmins and MB, I liked it.

    • ed lopaz says:

      When we picked 3rd overall it also moved us up for every subsequent pick. In round 2 we picked 3rd. round 3 again 3rd, round 4, 3rd, round 5, we had the #1 pick, and finally round 6 3rd overall.

      So not only did we have the 3rd pick overall, we were picking the 3rd best pick in virtually every round and 1st overall in round 5.

      That is an obvious advantage, and we ended up with several picks that could have easily gone mid to late in the previous round.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        That is a good point Ed, many players get slotted into certain rounds by the scouts. Essentially we were always able to take the best 3rd or 4th round player available, and in some cases the player who slipped through the previous round whom was still available. I wouldn’t be surprised if whomever was drafting behind us in the draft kept thinking, crap we were hoping to get that kid.

  31. HabFab says:

    Archambault is on a tear, 6G + 4A in 4 games.

  32. HabFab says:

    Maybe there is hope, of course it would take the players to keep Fehr in line at the same time;
    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sportsweek/20121116_Is_Flyers_Snider_helping_thaw_NHL_talks_.html

  33. Tim Bozon announced that he will not be playing in the U20 tournament this year…

    Does anyone know why the hell he spat on another player during a game last week (earning himself a suspension)? That is really disgusting…
    Telio
    The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site: http://teliopost.com/
    Twitter: @teliopost

    • HabFab says:

      The French team plays in the B Pool, not the A Pool that we get to watch Canada compete in. His decision was based on that he was better served staying in the WHL playing against a higher level of competition.

      • Thanks Habfab!

        That is too bad because it would have been fun to watch him tear up the B pool!

        Why doesn’t he play for swiss…wasn’t he born there?

        The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site: http://teliopost.com/
        Twitter: @teliopost

      • scuba says:

        Here in Halifax the big German deffenceman Konrad Abeltshauser went to play for Germany in the B pool and he claims it was a great experience. I know everyone is different but he almost single handidly took them back to the A pool. He was noticably better when he came back and I think it was great for his development.

  34. Cal says:

    This one is for 24 Cups. (Yes, I do requests- use comments section at my blog or reply here- you don’t have to leave your name or anything)
    Shout out to L Elle who did this one on HIO a month ago.

    http://calsnhllockout2012songparodies.weebly.com/index.html

  35. habstrinifan says:

    Good Mornin everyone!

    Great to read all the posts re the performances of all our prospects at the various levels of hockey.

    I am UPSET.. UPSET AH SAY… that HIO did not give an ‘official’ site review of the Marlies Bulldogs games. Past seasons’ games recaps or fantasy game provide a lukewarm hockey fix.

    I read the game report, such as it was, on TSN and it kinda helped ease my hockey famine.

    Thanks to Commandant and Mark-C and Mike D et al for their reports. Maybe Jo_Maka can update us on the Thrower on ice convulsions which he reported.

    Shoutouts:
    John Bellyful …for maintaining your entertainingly
    crackpot perspective.

    Brendan Gallagher … man I gotta make the trip to Steel
    town and watch you play and buy a Gallagher jersey and
    basically express my Gallagher man-crush.

    Yawns:
    Sorry HIO staff. You failing us some man! I appreciate its
    hard and maybe even not cost effective to devote some
    more creative brain cells to the site’s contents… but see
    see what you can do…. please.

    No Eggnog Awards:
    Bettman! Fehr! And you two are gonna sit at the little
    kids table this Xmas dinner… unless you stop acting
    like spoilt brats.

    Well off to hang the Xmas lights!

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Good morning to you as well. I love the idea of the no eggnog award. Could not agree with your nominees any more. Good luck with your lights.

      ———————————–

    • JohnBellyful says:

      Bettman and Fehr would make nice additions to any home’s outdoor Christmas decorations. Stand them together and call it the avidity scene.

  36. JohnBellyful says:

    Random thoughts of an inquisitive nature culled from a disorderly mind presented in a haphazard manner … What’s the problem with the players demanding they be paid in full for a season with fewer than 82 games? I’m sure the players will commit to giving 110 per cent effort, 115 per cent if necessary, to make up the difference. The league could also introduce 30-minute periods if the owners are hell-bent on getting their money’s worth…From when-will-they-learn department, why do villains with weapons stand within 10 feet of an unarmed Bond and think they have the upper hand? Who does their scouting?…Why are sitcoms the only television shows with canned audience reaction? Why aren’t dramas broadcast complete with recorded shrieks, groans, gasps, snorts, and other sounds viewers are likely to make at key points in an episode? And why doesn’t Coach’s Corner have a laugh track? … Why hasn’t anyone asked super statistician Nate Silver for his take on when the CBA will be signed? Surely it wouldn’t be hard for a man of his talents to develop a lockoutrithm based on egotistics to determine the likely date a deal gets signed. I have a suspicion he’d answer: “When hell freezes over.” Which might not be that remote a possibility, given the polarizing effect the two chief negotiators have … There are more than seven billion people in the world. How the hell did the NHL end up with both Bettman and Fehr? … It is a trope of science fiction that earth’s warring nations would unite to combat an external threat from outer space. Not being able to count on the Martians to suddenly assail team owners and players over stalled contract talks, what Earth-born enemy common to both sides could force them into forming an alliance and signing a deal? And does it have a Twitter account? (You can rule out fans. They have the financial means to do great harm but for the most part choose not to use it.)

  37. jo_maka says:

    Good on the poor tovarich to get 1g 1a on a first game. Here’s hoping he builds on it.

    Maddening as it could be, adversity is still a very efficient teacher. If we could salvage him and get back the wounded puppies, the pack might just have an interesting second half of season. Expect Nate to bounce back come January, coach can’t stop coaching even over a Christmas dinner. Despite everything, I feel like Baby Boom will be back. Now that he – like Howie, Boom Boom and Boom jr before him – bled at the altar of the Habs temple, the ghosts will guide his path.

    The one I’m concerned about beside him is Thrower. The kid’s a hardass, but convulsion on the rink in practice sounds real serious….

  38. ths says:

    This will be cancelled too by these losers. It’s a shame cuz ice hockey getting really popular in Australia

    International Ice Hockey
    Canada Vs. USA
    Visa Entertainment Pre-sale
    Starts Monday 26 November, 9am
    Ends Tuesday 27 November, 5pm*
    Password: VISA

    Australia is gearing up to host USA and Canada in an exhibition ice hockey series in June 2013. The teams which are to be compiled of players from professional North American leagues, will showcase the infamous rivalry of the two nations in Australia’s biggest and best sporting arenas.

    Australia; prepare to see big games, big hits and big time players including Olympic medalists and Stanley Cup winners.

    Sydney and Melbourne will see their venues transformed into a temporary House of Hockey with the installation of a portable NHL spec ice rink, and no expense will be spared in providing an authentic American ice hockey experience with onsite broadcasting on the massive Jumbotron screens, sound and lighting effects, and authentic North American announcers.

    TOUR DATES***:
    Sat 15 Jun – Hisense Arena, Melbourne
    Sat 22 Jun – Allphones Arena, Sydney

    Book tickets to International Ice Hockey during the Visa Entertainment Pre-sale from Monday 26 November, 9am, until Tuesday 27 November, 5pm*. Tickets go on sale to the general public on Friday 30 November, 9am.

    Plus, as a special offer for Visa cardholders, purchase during the Visa Entertainment Pre-sale and go in the draw to win one of two player box experiences. The ultimate upgrade for real ice hockey fans, you will get to sit closer to the ice rink and the players than anyone else in the building. In your dedicated seats, in the players box, with the players. We will draw two names. One for Canada and one for USA. Those winners will get to bring a friend. Enjoy the opening ceremony from within the player’s box, enjoy the game and then join our VIP guests after the game with the players. Terms and conditions apply.

    Please note that the Visa Entertainment pre-sale for International Ice Hockey is an opportunity to secure tickets prior to the general public and is not a preferential seating service.

    Ooh Aah Habs on the war path

    • Tom says:

      Hockey is getting big here; slowly but surely, its gaining ground. Teams don’t run on a deficit any more and are able to field some pretty competitive teams. I was really excited to road trip down for this one

  39. Chuck says:

    Dear Gary and Donald:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ58TVYNFro&list=AL94UKMTqg-9BwweD-S7J5I73BgE-F5nL5&index=2&feature=plcp

    ___________________________________________________
    Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

  40. punkster says:

    Far more interesting and positive news out of the Jays this week than anything the the entire NHL has delivered in months.

    Only about 3 months until spring training games…a better bet than BettFehr’s betrayal.

    ***Subbang Baby!!!***

    • 24 Cups says:

      Although I’m not sure what it says about the game when a drug addict gets a $16M contract.

      • HammerHab says:

        do you think everyone in the league that makes more than $16M is squeaky clean?

        ———————————–

        It’ll always be Habs Inside/Out to me

        • 24 Cups says:

          I was just stirring the pot on a sleepy Saturday morning.

          Personally, I doubt that the world of sports will ever be able to get a handle on the drug issue. I’m afraid that ship has sailed.

          Now if we’re talking about the belly putter…….

  41. --Habs-- says:

    The funniest thing is once this is settled they’ll all respect each other again!

    Go HABS Go

  42. --Habs-- says:

    So I guess there’s nothing to talk about!

    Go HABS Go

  43. commandant says:

    4 point night 1g 3a for Bozon now.

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • 24 Cups says:

      Which is why the other public sector unions (police, fire, transportation, health care, gov’t) have to support the teachers in their history making battle with the provinical government.

      We have our own version of Bettman here with Tim Hudak as leader of the Conservatives.

  44. commandant says:

    A good night for the rest of the Habs Prospects (outside the dogs).

    Another assist for Alex Galchenyuk, extending his point streak to 6 games (14 points).

    2 goals for Archambault

    2 goals for Dany Kristo.

    Another assist for Charles Hudon (plus a goal in the shootout).

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  45. sreuel says:

    This was news 2 days ago not talking guess certain parts of the world takes longer to here

  46. Mike D says:

    Bulldogs scoring from tonight:

    Ellis from St. Denis and Palushaj
    Avtsin from Boyce and Stejskal
    Gallagher (pp) from St. Denis and Bournival
    Nattinen from Boyce and Avtsin
    Palushaj from Ellis and Bournival
    Gallagher (en) from Dumont and Stejskal

    Lots of guys with 2 point nights!

    – Honestly yours
    Twitter: @de_benny

  47. Mike D says:

    6-3 Bulldogs. Game over.

    – Honestly yours
    Twitter: @de_benny

  48. smiler2729 says:

    Idiot billionaires and spoiled millionaires squabble over how to share THE MONEY WE GIVE THEM.

    STOP FEEDING THESE A-HOLES!!!

    _______________________________________
    Jack Edwards is a clam.
    Gary Bettman is a bobblehead.

    • Lawrencetown Liquor Pigs says:

      In fairness, I’m thinking the biggest chunks of the 3.3 Billion come from Molson/Coors, Labbatt’s, Canadian Tire and Gillette. And I can’t remember the last time the NHL or any of those companies got dime 1 from me, so I’m pretty much at peace.

      ______________________________________________________
      Lost a bottle of Kraken during this debacle of a season. Better gettem next year.

  49. JayK-47 says:

    Ol’ Ally Avtsin now highest PPG player in Habs org.

  50. savethepuck says:

    Anyone else have Rogers in the Maritimes? I just got home. Turned on TVA to watch the end of the Dogs Marlies, and they are telling me I need a subscription. I watched it free 1 or 2 weeks ago.

    • Ron says:

      Ya Dale they want us to pay for the french package to get it.There was a free be awhile back that you must have hit on. RDS is also part of it and its not that much. Call Rogers and tell them you want the package that includes TVAS(656,657) & RDS (508), if you don’t tell them you will be billed seperately.

  51. JohnBellyful says:

    A two-week moratorium on CBA negotiations is a good thing.
    To start with, it will temporarily put an end to incessant talk about talks that were going nowhere.
    More importantly, however, is that by stepping away from the bargaining table, Bettman and Fehr could be setting the stage for a dramatic breakthrough.
    As long as they don’t try to do too much (which seems a safe bet).
    Consider how many great moments in history were the result of happenstance rather than the application of will to a particular purpose.
    Let’s start with Archimedes who happened to be stepping into a bath when he came up with his famous principle: the volume of water displaced is equal to the volume of that part of a person that is submerged.
    He also discovered he should have tested the bath before entering the hot water poured by his servant, Eureka, who yelled “Archimedes!” but too late to prevent his master from getting scorched, and the servant fired.
    Next we have Saul of Tarsus who was out for a walk one day – okay, he was on his way to Damascus to arrest followers of Jesus – when he was blinded by a brilliant light, accompanied by a voice that asked: “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
    The voice said it was Jesus, and He had reason to be ticked, because He had been crucified. But Jesus, being a decent fellow with a good upbringing and a godparent to die for, wasn’t one to hold a grudge, so He told Saul to go into town and spend some time with a guy named Judas, while He arranged for a disciple, Ananias, to pay him a visit. When Ananias got there, he laid his hands on Saul and, voila! the Pharisee could see again!
    Not 100 per cent, mind you. Saul wrote a lot of letters after that and he signed them Paul.
    There’s more. Sir Isaac Newton, “considered by many to be the greatest and most influential scientist who ever lived,” was sitting under an apple tree with nobody else but him when, legend has it, an apple fell on his noggin and, hoo boy! the universal law of gravitation was born.
    Newton was so struck – literally – by this unorthodox means of discovery that he experimented with other fruits but, sad to say, no additional scientific laws came to mind (his, in particular), try though he did with bananas, pears, strawberries, and blackberries. He abandoned the experiment after suffering a series of concussions resulting from the use of coconuts as a source of inspiration.
    The point, if you insist, is that all three fellows responsible for extraordinary advances in mankind’s understanding of the universe did so while doing normal things: taking a bath, going for a walk, sitting beneath a tree.
    No such great things are expected of Bettman and Fehr during the moratorium but something nice could result if they were to let happenstance play its part – with a bit of a nudge.
    Specifically, a rapid conclusion to the CBA stalemate could miraculously occur if, perchance, Bettman were to go for a walk on the road to Damascus (Syria is lovely this time of year, I’ve heard) and if Fehr were to take a bath and be struck by an apple or two dozen, and prove once again that the amount of water displaced by the part – preferably whole – of a human body is equal to the volume of said part – preferably whole – that is submerged.
    The outcome of such events might well be viewed by hockey-starved fans as benevolent acts by a caring god.
    Or damn good luck.

  52. SarahMc33 says:

    First again!!


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