NHLPA to start voting Sunday on dissolving union

Playersweb

The Canadian Press reported Saturday that NHL players will begin voting Sunday on whether they’ll grant their executive board the authority to dissolve the NHL Players’ Association.

CP added that two-thirds of the union’s membership must vote in favour of allowing the executive board to file a “disclaimer of interest,” according to a source. Votes will be cast electronically over a five-day period that ends Thursday.

Should players vote in favour of allowing the 30-member executive board to file a disclaimer, it would have until Jan. 2 to do so.

Read more by clicking here.

Ken Belson of the New York Times reports that the latest moves by the NHL and the players have raised the odds of the entire season being cancelled. Read more by clicking here.

Stu Hackel of SI.com writes about how the lockout is getting uglier by the day. Read his column by clicking here.

(Photo by Chris Young/Canadian Press)

86 Comments

  1. knob says:

    I really would like to see the players push the envelope here and have the decertification blow up right in their face!! Sorry had to vent there.

    Now to add some valuable content: I live in Sarnia and should really get out to watch more Sting games. I was at the game last night and Galchenyuk is the real deal man; big bodied, fast hands, wicked shot. He controlled the game! I was quite please with his 3 goal, 2 assist performance.

    • Bill J says:

      Funny, I view it as….

      I really hope when the NHLPA decertifies that the Lockout blows up in Bettman’s face and we never see him again.

      This all comes back to him, no matter how you slice it…. The root cause of all this is Bettman.


      Go Habs Go!

  2. rhino514 says:

    In response to the posts below, no one knows if decertificiation would be a disaster or not.
    In an ideal world I would love it if the free market dictated salaries; this is what happens with soccer in the rest of the world. You wouldn´t have parity any more; some clubs would simply have alot more money to sign players than other clubs and the majority of clubs couldn´t compete. You´d think a league couldn´t survive like that, right? Wrong. Look at baseball in the earlier part of the 20th century. Look at soccer in the rest of the world. Fans would still go out to enjoy a game, regardless of wether their team had a realistic chance to win the championship. The small market teams wouldn´t have a cap floor, they would sign whomever they could afford to sign.
    I don´t think it will happen yet because hockey still doesn´t have close to the mass appeal outside of North America that soccer has, for example, hence the free market is largely limited to this continent. But in the future it may well happen. The KHL is getting bigger every year, and interest in hockey in europe is steadily growing. If you look at the fact that approximately one third of NHLs have found work elsewhere even without an NHL, the rest would probably find work within a non-unionized NHL. With 30 north american clubs AND Europe vying for players, I don´t think salaries would be low at all. But it´s alot of short term uncertainty for the players, and most human beings hate uncertainty in the face of what is certain comfort. But one day it will happen. Ultimately a cap system is an artificial tool that cannot compete with a free market system; I don´t think it´s used anywhere int he world outside north america, and if used at all it should only be used as a temporary measure for a weak, struggling, fledgling league

    • wildwilly says:

      While I agree with your comment in general, there are many soccer leagues that are struggling with player’s salaries vs. the profitability of the club. In England many of the best clubs are owned by obscenely rich foreigners (e.g. Man City, Chelsea) whom are willing to lose hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Many of the other clubs are deeply in debt trying to keep up but don’t have the same resources. As a result, they are trying to make a rule so teams can only spend what they earned in revenue and not go into debt.

      My point is there is no perfect example, not even soccer.

      • rhino514 says:

        “As a result, they are trying to make a rule so teams can only spend what they earned in revenue and not go into debt.”

        funny, it seems so simple, doesn´t it? that could actually be a rule worth looking at!

        some clubs may be in debt, but how many clubs have actually gone under in all of the premier leagues in Europe? hardly any in decades, i would say. If a club gets into debt, eventually i would think they just stop signing players they can´t afford, or they just plain get relegated to the second division.

        You are right there is no perfect rule; the CBA approach CAN work, if both parties do not take an adversarial approach and instead are trying to build the game together. It actually should be relatively easy. But the whole moneygrubbing culture needs to disappear. there has to be a complete culture shift. I honestly do think that by americanising the game into more and more southern markets where hockey is seen simply as one more alternative for a night´s entertainment, and by appointing NY lawyers to run the league who have no innate understanding of the game, this cannot happen.
        But one cannot go backwards, it´s too late for that, and that´s why i tend to think in the future hockey will become completely deregulated; it will go to the other extreme.
        When it does, the NHL will have no one but itself to blame. And in the long run, the players will actually do better in such a system.

  3. commandant says:

    You know what they say when you ASSUME. There were more ill informed assumptions in that blog post than I’ve ever seen in one persons work before.

  4. habbernack says:

    Two things to the NHLPA. If you’re so concerned avout the fans whom I hear you really feel sorry for sign a 10 year deal so us fans don’t have to go through this again in 6 or 7 years. When Bettman came into the league, the PA and owners were splitting 400 million and now it’s up to 3 billion. Bettman has put money into their pockets.

  5. kempie says:

    Shouldn’t I be watching hockey right now?

    • Mondou6 says:

      In a word, no. They don’t call it the No Hockey League for nothing.

      If you want to pay $150 to go to a game, that means that somewhere, somehow, Bettman and Jacobs are only getting $149 of your money. How do you expect the Phoenix Coyotes to survive without that extra dollar? Stop being so selfish.

  6. Renegade says:

    Question: If the union is dissolved, but a majority of the players did so because they are tired of the union and want to sign a deal, could they go and sign a new CBA with the NHL? I mean, each player would be representing themselves after all, and if a majority of players did this, would it become the new CBA (similar to if a majority of players voted to sign a CBA as part of the union)? If this is possible, and it did occur, I assume it would probably result in the union never being reformed, or being reformed under new leadership. Am I totally off base here or is this a possibility?

    • Mondou6 says:

      From what I understand, union decertification means that instead of the union negotiating with the NHL, each individual player could negotiate against each individual team.

      Franchises would compete against each other, with no collusion, no salary cap, no contract rules.

      That would be a disaster, obviously. It will never come to that. It’s a threat the union is using because the owners are not negotiating in good faith. The union is basically threatening to blow up everything.

    • In a word, no. Collective bargaining is a process that his protected and governed by certain rules and regulations, one of which is that the employees must be represented by a union or association of employees that is recognized by the appropriate labour boards. Once the players decertify and cease to be represented by the NHLPA the would no longer be able to benefit from the protections of collective bargaining and would be at the mercy of Employment Standards Act.

      In the US, labour law (or Labor Law) is governed on a federal level so it is neat and tidy. In Canada it is dealt with on a provincial level, each province has it’s own labour laws and labour boards which is why the Canadiens were able to challenge the lock out while others were not.

      I side with the players however I believe decertifying under these circumstances would be wrong and constitute an unfair labour practice as it is being done in bad faith. I also think it would be a disaster moving forward and would likely result in a “NHL nuclear winter”. At that point, might as well start seriously looking at the creation of a new league.

      Forbidden

      You don’t have permission to access /wp-content/cache/supercache/www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/a-win-that-slipped-away/index.html on this server.

  7. Boomer says:

    Fake,
    I think he’s a great fit in chicago. I love the kid’s hands!
    I’m excited to see him and Barkov at the world’s for Finland

    • Mondou6 says:

      That has to be the least informed thing I’ve ever read. I can summarize the entire “article” by saying, “According to some random guy who spent 5 minutes to create his own blog, the players will overwhelming vote to support the owners, because…Well just because he wants it to be so.”

      I can’t believe I wasted 30 seconds of my life clicking on that link.

  8. Fake says:

    Gotten kinda empty in here… For those of you here, how about this for a debate… Galchenyuk is taken by Columbus and of course Yakupov is selected by EDM. Who do you take?

    A. Filip Forsberg
    B. Teuvo Teravainen
    C. Mikhail Grigorenko
    D. Fill in the blank

    • Fake says:

      I choose: Forsberg because he would be the next best choice. And you can’t go wrong with a Swede PWF with size, skill, and physicality. He will take at least one year to develop but we’re in no hurry.

    • Haborama says:

      Forsberg

      Grigs has got waaay to many question marks, and Teravainen is one of the softest players I have ever seen

    • neumann103 says:

      I say this having been a big Forsberg fan (based purely on scouting reports) but part of that was expecting the Habs to be picking around 6th or 7th. I might have taken Galchenyuk if I had the 1st pick. But at 3rd if Yakupov and AGally94 are taken I either trade down or take…..

      Mikhail Grigorenko. Too much anti-Russian BS behind his fall from grace. Fortunately I have only been flat on my back sick twice in my life but one of those times was mono. I was 19 and healthy and I could barely keep water down for 8 days. I can’t imagine how little time he had to recover and ho much that could have affected him.

      or……..

      A defenseman. I hear that Morgan Reilly was the best player available in the whole draft (TM) and that some sage GMs would have taken him 1st overall.

      I would be interested in what some of the commenters who pay a lot of attention to prospects would think. Like Ben (Commandant) Kerr

      “Et le but!”

  9. Boomer says:

    When Timmins and co. drafted a guy with decent size in the past it was usually a guy that has speed and some skill. Perfect examples are Patches and Quailer. Now I’m not putting Quailer in the same boat as Patches in terms of skill it’s just an example of our draft history. When they draft the bigger boys they tend to have similar likeness’ in that they can skate and play the game. I’m glad we have these guys in our system but I agree 100% we need to get bigger and tougher. We need a guy that can do it all (Score, Fight, skate, etc.). But they are really tough to come by and If that player has the speed, the skill with a high ceiling, and the grit to put foot to a** when need be, I can pretty much guarantee he’d go very early in the draft.
    The good news is with new Management in place they are going in a new direction. Mb has said on numerous occasions he wants guys with character. This is a really encouraging sign. Perhaps we will see a slight shift in drafting mentality. He was so Impressed with Thrower at the prospects game going after Tom Wilson (to defend a teammate), that he immediately took him with our last 2nd round pick.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLnQOxDrqw4

    Please understand I’m only using Thrower as an example regarding the type of character that MB was looking for. And all of the stuff we’ve heard lately about Dalton came AFTER the draft.

    With this new mentality and the signing of Prust in the offseason (who was tied for first when it came to 5 minute majors for putting foot to a**), I think our team is going in a very positive direction. They may be baby steps, but they are steps in the right direction.
    :)

    • Phil C says:

      I think where the Habs could really use some toughness is on defense. A tough defenseman will play more minutes than a tough forward. It’s also easier to have a tough defenseman on the ice at the same time as your elite players so that if your opponent is using intimidation tactics, you can respond immediately. Most tough forwards cannot play on your top lines. Most can barely play on the fourth line.

      Another form of toughness is to not be easily intimidated. I think the Habs are pretty good in that department. Gionta and Cole are fearless. Gorges and Cube are the same on defense. Add in a few guys who drop the gloves like Moen, Prust, and White and it is not bad except for no one who can fight on defense.

      • 24 Cups says:

        Gionta gets points for defying his stature but he has little impact in terms of being a physical threat. Cube is close to being over the hill and Gorges scares no one. I give them all credit but none of them truly fit the bill. They are all secondary parts.

    • Steve C. says:

      What are these things that have been going on with Thrower post-draft?

  10. Fake says:

    RE WILSON:

    Who knows. But he’s definitley better than the mistake the oilers made. A grinder in Mitch Moroz over Collberg or even Finn.

    • Mark C says:

      One of the most head scratching pick ever. Almost felt like it was an apology pick to the 29 other teams for getting so many #1s. How can one justify Moroz over any one of Collberg, Finn, Aberg, or anyone else taken in the second, third, or fourth rounds?

      • Fake says:

        Yeah I know… All people could say about it is that they hope he’s more of a power forward than a grinder. But his stats speak for him. I think he’s a downgrade on Whitey.

        Oh to second your point – I’d take Nystrom over Moroz anyday.

    • 24 Cups says:

      Fake – Well said. I even wonder if the Oilers could have picked up Moroz in the 3rd round. If not, take Collberg at 32 and then trade up your 3rd rounder to grab Moroz near the end of the 2nd round.
      If he turns out to be Lucic, then it’s a great pick at 32. If not, it’s a huge blunder.

  11. JayBee says:

    Hope the league burns to a crisp. I don’t support the players and I don’t support this league. Won’t ever see a red cent from me. How a slam dunk deal has turned into this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

    I just feel sorry for kids who idolize players and believe they play for the emblem on the jersey or the love of the game. It’s not about any of that, which I knew. But to see the players try to sabotage this entire bargaining process just so they can “win” something is ridiculous.

    Let them all rot.

  12. Fake says:

    DARRYL BOYCE RELEASED! :)

  13. Haborama says:

    Re Commandant in regards to Wilson: I think every team in the NHL would take a Chris Neil in a split second.

    Which begs the question: do you know if there are any players in the 2013 draft with attributes similar to Wilson???

    I will agree with you that he should not have been a first round pick though………

    • commandant says:

      I like Kerby Rychel as a guy who can play and fight. He is not a heavyweight though.

      It doesn’t seem there are too many Wilson types being promoted in the top of the draft this year. Nothing in the top 45-50 so far. Perhaps a little further down.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

  14. HabFab says:

    Delmas sent down to Wheeling.

  15. Mark C says:

    Didn’t know Tom Wilson had a fan club.

  16. Chris says:

    Just got back from watching Guelph lose to the London Knights 4-3 in a shootout, extending the Knights’ winning streak to 20 games.

    Got to hand it to Dale Hunter…that is one solid program he’s got in London. Even while missing four top defencemen (three to World Juniors, one to suspension) and his #1 centre, his Knights are still a powerful, disciplined team. If they can pick up another scorer, that team is going to be awfully hard to beat.

  17. frontenac1 says:

    Toledo vs Utah in the Potato Bowl and Blue Turf?!!! Probably the same Einstein
    Who brought us the “electronic puck” . Beyond gauche.

  18. HabFab says:

    Check out Subban on twitter and his new subbiecam. This afternoon he was playing ball hockey with some kids in TO. What an Ambassador!
    https://twitter.com/PKSubban1

  19. HabFab says:

    I see the voting will be done electronically via internet. My question is if the vote is “secret”.

    • Mondou6 says:

      As a Met fan, I think it’s a smart move for both parties.

      And I actually feel bad that Dickey is stuck on a horrible team like the Mets. I’d like to see him go to a contending team.

      That said, pitching in the AL East is brutal compared to pitching in the NL. The AL is littered with pitchers who put up good stats in the NL. Just like hitters put up big stats in the AL, then flop in the NL.

  20. jols101 says:

    Wow, guys sitting on their pedestals preaching patience with our Prospects while writing off a 18 year old kid that is putting up over a point a game numbers and is tough as nails. Hypocritical to say the least.

    • Haborama says:

      I’m totally with you on that one mon ami, for a guy with “no hands” he is scoring at a really good pace in the OHL……..

    • Boomer says:

      Who are we talking about?

    • Chris says:

      It isn’t necessarily hypocritical.

      A guy with size and some skill can do very well in junior hockey because they are literally a man playing amongst boys. Tom Wilson is 6’4″ and 210 pounds. Here are the heights and weights of the top 6 on the Guelph Storm (one of the top team in the OHL this season) right now:

      Jason Dickinson (6’2″, 176 pounds), Zack Mitchell (6’0″, 187 pounds), Scott Kosmachuk (5’11”, 187 pounds), Tanner Richard (6’0″, 186 pounds), Zack Mitchell (6’0″, 186 pounds) and Hunter Garlent (5’9″, 164 pounds). Wilson has a 25-50 pound advantage against a lot of the kids he plays against. That is absolutely ridiculous and gives him a huge advantage.

      Once he gets to the NHL, that advantage goes out the window. Now he’s got to be able to keep up in a league full of guys that are as big and strong as he is. And that is the knock on Wilson…he’s not a great skater.

      He’s just barely a point-per-game player in Plymouth this season as an 18 year old behemoth. More disturbing, he’s only got 7 goals. The kid has got a long path ahead of him if he’s going to make the NHL.

      • commandant says:

        Exactly, we’ve seen this player before; heck the habs drafted him before. His name in 1991 was Turner Stevenson

        Go Habs Go!
        Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • jols101 says:

        ” The kid has got a long path ahead of him if he’s going to make the NHL.” – Sure he does, just like 99% of 18 year old prospects. There are only a Golden few that get direct passage from Junior to the NHL. The overwhelming majority have to go down that long path…

  21. 24 Cups says:

    I was the under impression that a 50% +1 vote was needed so a 2/3 majority changes things, somewhat. It might be a tough call for some players.

    On one hand, they are hoping that this move will lead to a quick settlement just like in the NBA. Of course, they also run the risk that this could backfire and lead to a total cancellation of the season. If so, then they miss out on a year’s salary while also knowing that major job losses will be part and parcel of the new workplace reality.

    If these court cases are heard in New York it could lead to a nuclear winter that might just cause irretputable harm to the game.

    • Habilis says:

      I agree. Does anyone really think that the players want this to be tied up in court for years? Ok maybe guys like Campoli and Darche do because they probably won’t play another NHL game either way, but most of them just want to play and get paid millions for it.

      This is the players all-in move. Either the owners fold and present an offer everyone can live with, or they call the bet, go to court, and everyone involved loses billions over the next 2 or 3 years.

      You would think that it’s an easy choice given those options but with the level of animosity where it is and the massive egos involved, it really could go either way.

      • layvack says:

        Antitrust lawsuit is to break down monopolies. How can this be done when almost 1/3 of the players played somewhere else during the lock out? It’s not like the NFL or the NBA, which are monopolies, but by playing elsewhere the players themselves are giving the proof that the NHL is not a monopoly. This move will only hurt the players.

    • HabFab says:

      Steve, a valid point already raised is that an overwhelming vote in support of this motion can also be used in the NHL’s case against the PA. Showing support for the board / executive recommendation and then claiming they are no longer associated, goes towards proving the NHL case that the disclaimer is bogus.

  22. commandant says:

    On US gun laws

    http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/546881_451460678244809_772220009_n.jpg

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • 24 Cups says:

      Sorry Ben, but I’m afraid there’s not much hope. It’s a sad state of affairs, but the chances of change are even less now than when I was a naive hippie back in the 60s.

      It’s all part of the decline and fall of the empire.

      • Ian Cobb says:

        Guns are used only for one thing,-KILLING
        They should be under strict controls at all times! You can get a hand gun state side as easy as getting candy. These kids should have received candy, not bullets.
        USA! vote to get rid of your hand guns, assault weapons and save lives! Or the killing will continue.

        I have been trained to use some weapons.
        In Canada we have to have a possession license for long guns, given by the RCMP. It is not perfect but we have registered controls here. We have to submit to all background checks and apply every few years for a valid possession card with our picture. And that is just to go hunting for some birds or animals. They must be under lock and key at all times when stored in your home. You can forget about getting hand guns legally here, without a special permit.

    • ZepFan2 says:

      That’s just for handguns. I shudder at the thought of how many more died from semi-automatic rifles.

      ———————————————————————-
      Ka is a wheel.

      Fans Theme: “You’re Breaking my heart, You’re tearin’ it apart” – Harry Nilsson

      You’re breaking my heart

    • Propwash says:

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

      _____________________________
      “Access Forbidden” gettin’ ya down?
      Hold down Shift while clicking refresh.

      • Chuck says:

        The most telling stat (pro-gunners and 2nd Ammendmenters take note) is that as the rate of gun ownershop declines in the United States, so does the incidence of gun crimes. That flies in the face of those who say that the answer to the violence is more guns.

        ___________________________________________________
        Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

  23. Haborama says:

    Re Commanadant in regards to Wilson: I was not expecting the next Lucic either, all I was expecting was a player who could play in the top 9, kick the crap out of opponents, play physical, and put up around 30-40 points. there are very few forward prospects in the world capable of such things. It appears to me that the so-called “power forwards” in the 2013 draft are moderately physical players who drive to the net, but carry NO INTIMIDATION AT ALL. We already have two such players.

    Which begs the question: are there any 2013 draft prospects who have the same profile as Wilson???

    btw, Wilson is a lot scarier then Travis Moen IMO, Moen is a middleweight at best who rarely wins a fight by a wide margin.

    • Sean Bonjovi says:

      30-40 points is a lot of points in the NHL. Teams are hard pressed to find 3rd liners who can play a little defence and score over 30 points. Lars Eller would need to improve to become a 30-40 point guy. You let me know when this Tom Wilson fella scores 30 points.

  24. Habilis says:

    Well I’ve finally come to the point where I’m actually embarassed to call myself a hockey fan.

    I was among those who said, way back when, that there would be no lockout. I thought that these “top men” would be smart enough to realize that every day they waste is simply more money down the drain. Unfortunately I was quite wrong. This has become a battle of wills and egos instead of right and wrong and the fact that these guys can’t unpuff their chests for 5 minutes to broker a deal is downright moronic.

    Of course it was going to go down to the wire. Of course it was going to get as ugly as possible before it got better. Of course these egomaniacal, manipulative snakes couldn’t do what was best for the sport.

    What was I thinking?

    • JF says:

      Good post. I thought there would be a lockout, but that it would be relatively short – over by American Thanksgiving or thereabouts. It seemed common sense that the League would want to save the Winter Classic and its accompanying television series, which in the States anyway are the biggest events of the hockey year. When those were axed, I thought we would play a half-season at most. But it’s beginning to look increasingly as though the League and the PA are so intent on breaking each other they’re willing to flush not just the entire season but the business itself down the drain.

  25. Chuck says:

    Really! Bask in the glory!

    ___________________________________________________
    Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.


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