NHL talks put on hold for at least one day

NHLweb

NHL labour talks are on hold again for at least a day.

The NHLPA announced it plans to work internally on Tuesday and could be ready to meet with the league on Wednesday. The sides returned to the bargaining table for 90 minutes on Monday night, with the league asking for a comprehensive offer on the split of revenue and player contract rights.

“We’ve never heard a full proposal from them,” deputy commissioner Bill Daly told The Canadian Press afterward. “We’ve heard their proposal on economics, they’re still suggesting that they’re moving in our direction on economics. Until we know exactly where they stand on economics … we think it’s all tied together.

“We’d like to hear it all together.”

You can read more by clicking here.

The Globe & Mail’s Roy MacGregor, who was this year’s recipient of the Elmer Ferguson Memorial Award from the Hockey Hall of Fame, wrote a column Tuesday about a university professor who is an international expert in brand management and sports marketing ripping the NHL for treating its fans as “stupid”. You can read MacGregor’s column by clicking here.

And a new survey commissioned by the Montreal-based Association for Canadian Studies has found that about 61 per cent of the adult population haven’t been to an NHL game for at least five years, suggesting the NHL is just too expensive for the majority of Canadians. Read more by clicking here.

(Photo by Chris Young/The Canadian Press)

60 Comments

  1. gloing19 says:

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  2. Bripro says:

    I’m sitting here reminiscing about hockey as a boy.
    Bored am I? Ya think?!!!
    The first game that I remember seeing at the old Forum was with my dad in the late 60s. I believe the spring of 1967 or 68.
    It was the first of a playoff game against the Black Hawks.
    It was the last year of the old Forum before it’s restoration.
    Our seats were right behind a pillar at the Habs blue line.
    Nosebleeds you say? You could say that.
    But that building was structured like legos for kids.
    We were adjacent to a metal stairwell leading to the broadcast booth.
    Today, forget it. If you can’t access the elevators in the journalists entrance, there’s no way you’ll get up there.
    Anyhow, between periods, I snuck up the stairs. Imagine a boy walking 40-50 feet above ice level (seemed like 200). The dimn-lit passage, the echo of small feet on metal grating.
    But when I found myself staring down this long lit hallway that was the broadcast booth, it was a different world. I stood there in awe. It was so bright!
    A man to my right turned and saw me standing there, smiled, and turned back to what he was doing.
    Now I realize that as a young fan, I probably could have walked the length of that cat walk, been greeted or acknowledged… or not.
    But at that moment? I turned and high-tailed it outa there!
    And I went back and sat down at my seat, my dad draping his arm around my shoulders, not a care in the world.
    I dont’ remember a thing about the game aside the pillar and broadcast booth, but it’s a game I’ll never forget.

  3. HabFab says:

    2-0 for the IceCaps over the Bulldogs half way thru the 2nd period.

  4. HabFab says:

    CBA negotiation update, good break down of issues agreed to, those closer on and those still far apart;
    http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1290414–nhl-lockout–nhlpa-could-deliver-new-proposal-wednesday

  5. KLear says:

    Richelieu’s argument is completely off base, and I would offer incorrect. He suggests the NHL doesn’t care about its fan base, proposing the NHL assumes fans are stupid. He argues this because the NHL has found itself in another lockout situation.

    He forgets the NHL foresaw this issue 12 months ago, and has been asking Fehr to meet to discuss the CBA for months now. Fehr turned his nose at Bettman and refused. Fehr left it to the last minute, and now its too late. I believe it is Fehr who has made the fatal error. He has likely promised the players unattainable gains, banking on the NHL not wanting another lost season on its shoulders.

    The reality is Bettman, for the good of a 30 team NHL, cannot allow the League carry on as is. The majority of teams lost money. How many of you would go to your jobs each day knowing that of the 30 people in your department, you are one of 22 who will not make money ?

    Now you can argue that the owners spent their way into this, they should absorb the loss. But Bettman knows what everyone knows; without a containment mechanism teams spend themselves into oblivion.

    The players need to make a choice: a 30 team League with Bettman or a 20 team League, with less jobs, 5 years after you throw him out because the players desired ‘free market’ took over.

    • HammerHab says:

      this argument assumes the owners are actually losing money. there is a difference between the team losing money on paper and the owner losing money.

      also, if bettman really wanted to talk 12 months ago why did he wait so long to actually table an offer?

      ———————————–

      It’ll always be Habs Inside/Out to me

      • KLear says:

        Good point, but the counterpoint highlights the hypocrisy in Fehr’s current media message. Who, exactly, would you have liked Bettman to make an offer to ? Fehr refused to meet.

        Fehr recently criticized the NHL for not meeting, as he claims he knows no progress will be made if there is no meeting. What did he do for the last 12 months when Bettman wanted to discuss the matter ? Sorry, but that’s a slight bit hypocritical.

        • HammerHab says:

          Why would the PA want to meet? They had no issues with the CBA the way it was. If the NHL wasn’t happy with the current CBA it is their responsibility to make the first offer, how else is the PA supposed to know what the NHL want’s changed? That first offer didn’t come until July. Why is that the PA’s fault?

          If you weren’t happy with your significant other would you say to them “I’m not happy. I’d like for you to come up with some ideas on how to make me happy” and leave it at that?

          ———————————–

          It’ll always be Habs Inside/Out to me

          • KLear says:

            So you are suggesting that the NHLPA was not aware of the NHL’s concerns with the current CBA because an offer wasn’t made leading up to the lockout ?

            Lets take a quick poll: How many people on this site thought the NHL was happy with the current CBA ? That’s what I thought….everyone knew the NHL wasn’t happy including Fehr. Everyone knew Bettman wanted to talk. Everyone knew Fehr refused.

            How can you serve divorce papers when you can’t find your spouse ?

            Even when the first offer came in July (which by the way undermines your argument – the NHL did make an offer before the CBA expired – in fact they told the PA on June 29) the PA still ignored it. Sorry, but your argument doesn’t absolve the PA – they are still hypocrites for suggesting the NHL should meet with them now when they decide its appropriate.

    • Gerry H says:

      I agree with HammerHab. It takes a lot of faith in the owners as a group to believe that 22 of 30 are losing money. It also begs a question about their competence as business people. They got the “cost certainty” they sought last go-round and then proceeded to see their revenues grow beyond expectations for the next seven years. Yet, they are still losing money?

      Only three possible answers: 1) They’re incompetent; 2) The league is twice as big as it should be; or 3) They’re lying.

      • KLear says:

        1) I agree, some of the Owners are incompetent

        2) I agree – the League is twice as big as it should be

        3) I disagree – they’re not all lying; who on this site believes the majority of Owners are making money ?

        4) HammerHab has a point but if a team is losing money and the Owner is manipulating the books for tax gains (or whatever) inevitably the pot runs dry and the Owner can no longer keep the team (can you say Peter Pocklington anyone ?)

        Everyone has to make a choice – 30 teams with Bettman or 20 teams without him – what’ll be ?

        • HammerHab says:

          ” 4) HammerHab has a point but if a team is losing money and the Owner is manipulating the books for tax gains (or whatever) inevitably the pot runs dry and the Owner can no longer keep the team (can you say Peter Pocklington anyone ?)”

          Most owners own more than just their hockey team. Many own the arena their team plays in and even though the team itself may lose money the owner may be profiting overall by owning that team. This is why the definition of HRR is such a hot topic. The 3+ billion references HRR as defined in the last CBA. There is plenty more revenue the owners make that doesn’t get cut up and served to the players.

          And if the league allows an owner like Pocklington or Boots into the league that is a league problem, not a player problem. Just another thing that players cannot control. The owners need to be protected from themselves when they front-load contracts, give out 15 year deals, sign huge second contracts, and find any and all ways around the CBA that they designed. The league also nees to be protected from itself when they insist on keeping teams in failing markets, when they deny hockey crazed billionaires from purchasing a team but allow crooks to buy a team, and when they would rather run a team themselves than admit an error and move it to a real hockey town. Considering a team like Florida is actually profitable I would say 25/30 teams are probably actually profitable.

          I refuse to believe the owners truly need help and truly need to claw back the players share time and time again.

          ———————————–

          It’ll always be Habs Inside/Out to me

    • HabFab says:

      So in other words they both are guilty of sins…mmmmh!

      • KLear says:

        Florida is profitable ? Really ?

        http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/

        And you just spelled out why a new CBA is needed. If you don’t find a mechanism to control the Owners, they will always spend into oblivion.

        But you know what – lets forget it. No cap, open market, and a 12 team league. That way we won’t have to listen to players like Ian White whine anymore because he will be the German League.

  6. Mavid says:

    shit or get of the pot….I am sick of this BS…

  7. HabFab says:

    In real hockey news, CSS has released their first 2013 Draft Prospect Rankings;
    http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9530

  8. frontenac1 says:

    Boner up ,boner down. It was fun for a while, now it just hurts. Let me know when they drop the puck. Damn coc*teasers.

  9. HabFab says:

    @Phil C – re Kristo, he remains Habs property until August 15th. He can’t be signed until he is finished school which is next May. As for the Shultz factor, he would have to quit school first. Since he has always been committed to UND and it’s hockey team plus publicly wanting a championship there. He is into his last year of school so very little chance of him doing a “Schultz” now. Schultz quit school after his third year.

    • commandant says:

      If he de-registers from school, prior to graduation, he could be a UFA 30 days after de-registration. If he really wanted to speed thngs up. However if he wants his degree, he’s ufa anyway on August 15th so not much point to that.

      The thing is though, that if Kristo really wanted to screw the Habs he had the requisite four seasons (same as schultz, 1 USHL, 3 NCAA) to de register and do it last spring/summer. Going back to school wasn’t a snub of the Habs, it was more a “I want to stay in school” decision.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

  10. nunacanadien says:

    This seems surreal in a way: you have the owners locking out the players, and the players saying they are open to negotiations.

    Yet neither side has made a complete offer. What the heck is all this wasted time for then? Why all the drama if the players can’t get their own act together and negotiate a deal????

  11. jsmar10 says:

    Anyone know where I can stream the bull dogs game tonight for free? Is it on TV tonight? Thanks

  12. Pinchy says:

    Game day…AHL style….yeah I know still not the same feeling, but I’m excited to see the dogs come to town. As a season ticket holder for the ice caps, I’ve had this day circled on my calender for quite some time. I’m hoping to snap some photos and vids of the kids in action, will post upon return!

  13. Ron says:

    Supposed 10am start to CBA meetings on Wednesday between NHL/NHLPA according to Dreger tweet.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Remember when we used to get excited that they were going to meet and we had optimism. I am now in the “whatever, go ahead and meet” category.

      I think the only people helped by these meetings are catering companies in the city where meetings are held.

  14. commandant says:

    Danny Kristo, WCHA player of the week, 5 points (3g 2a) in 2 games.

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • Habfan10912 says:

      I know some of the off ice stuff has tainted him in some eyes Ben, but I think this guys gonna be a good NHL player. I love his motor.

      ———————————–

      • Phil C says:

        What are the chances he will sign in Montreal? Could he not walk like Shultz did next summer?

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Someone did mention the other day that he and Timmins have been keeping in contact. I still have hopes for this kid. And I also think the off ice stuff has been overblown. In fact I think if those incidents happen in Junior hockey we may never hear about them.

          • Blondie says:

            What off-ice stuff?

          • Habfan10912 says:

            Hi Blondie. There have been a few. The most recent one involved a party where alcohol was served to underage folks. As Burly says, it’s more stupid college stuff and nothing serious.

            ———————————–

          • Blondie says:

            Thanks Jim. I just went searching for it, saw he’d been suspended for two games (although I think it was last year), but not why.

            In college and partying, who’d a thunk it?

            Edit: No, it was this year. Still recovering from the weekend :)

          • shiram says:

            There was the frozen toe ordeal as well.

        • Habfan10912 says:

          I haven’t heard anything that leads me to believe he has interest in snubbing the Habs. I think he’ll sign right after his season is completed.

          ———————————–

    • Blondie says:

      Great to hear. It’s nice to have a bunch of good prospects in the pipeline again.

  15. bwoar says:

    It isn’t in the players’ best interests to present an all-encompassing offer. Taking a position on things involves living up to it later in the negotiations. Fehr & the PA have refused to do that the entire time, it is Fehr’s method for stalling (essentially, it’s his way of locking out the owners, since they can’t negotiate off an offer they don’t receive.)

    As a tactic, it’s just as toxic to the process as the ludicrous initial rollback offer from the league.

    Let’s hope that the PA can agree to present a ‘full’ offer on every point of contention. That’s the only kind of honest, eye-to-eye negotiation that solves these confrontations.

    • commandant says:

      Last time the players presented an all-encompassing offer the Owners cherry picked the proposals that the they liked (a 24% rollback), and got rid of the ones they didn’t (luxury tax).

      They then incorporated that 24% rollback into their own offers (something that started in the NHL’s offers in January 2005, but was not mentionned in September 2004).

      As such, you can see why neither side wants to put 100% of their cards on the table based on that history.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • HabinBurlington says:

        And the last time the owners did a CBA with the players, after the initial rollback, salaries increased every successive year. Why does no one mention that, all we hear about is the God forsaken rollback and not the huge immense increases that followed, very curious as to why that is not mentioned.

        • commandant says:

          Salaries increased but so did revenues (meaning players and owners both got more money).

          However the point of my post wasn’t the Rollback itself.

          It was showing how putting an entire offer can be detrimental, as Bettman and the BoG can do what they did before. Take any concessions you make (and what he wasn’t asking for earlier) and incorporate them in his new offers, but not incorporate the areas where you ask for owner concessions.

          Go Habs Go!
          Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
          http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • Blondie says:

          Probably because it’s not all that relevant. Salaries would have increased immensely without the rollback as well. The two are not connected.

        • Cal says:

          It kills the argument; that’s why.
          The players lose nothing because they are contracted individually. It’s up to the GMs to deal with the cap, not the player or his agent.

          My dislike for lawyers increases every day. Sure, they’ll argue (it’s what they do) about all the good that has come from litigation, but all I see are pigs eating at the trough. At least pigs can be turned into ham and bacon and ribs. What can you make out of lawyers?

          • Blondie says:

            Stew?

            I’m with you on the lawyers Cal. Bankers too.

          • Cal says:

            @ Blondie- Stew? LMAO!

          • nunacanadien says:

            The CBA is just fancy words for how many new American markets can waste millions of cap dollars to buy a promising hockey player that would never sign in Canada because we don’t pay superstars enough money anymore. As if a Sidney Crosby would ever play in a Canadian city. Tell it like it really is. The television markets down south want another Great One, and the owners have set it up so that only the best gravitate to the south.

            Maybe it is time the Canadian teams refuse to play along and say we want a “level” playing field. No more Sidney Corsby’s signing in big name television markets that never watch Sidney Crosby, and who is only a media made star without statistics to show it.

            The rest of the Canadian teams go broke trying to match their American counterparts and hence we over pay a Markov, and we pay way to much for a Gomez, and we think Prust is a giant of an enforcer when really he is just a Gomez type player who only fights other small midgets.

            So really, Fehr, get off your hypocrite horse, and Bettman call it like it is, this hockey market is not for Canada, never has been in ages, and only changes to the labour market laws of either Canada and the USA could ever give us real hockey again!

      • bwoar says:

        Both sides are free to cherry pick, it can go both ways easily. Once the dust settles we’ll learn what the PA’s been picking from the NHL’s offers.

        Forget the CBA for a minute. If we differ on a topic, but I don’t know why we differ, or how, what point is there to even attempt to find common ground?

        • commandant says:

          The PA is free to cherry pick from the NHL’s offer, but here’s the problem.

          The NHL hasn’t offered anything that is a benefit to the NHLPA

          With the NHL offers, They are still looking at

          1) a lower percentage of HRR.
          2) some type of hit immediately and a fuzzy “make whole provision” which may or may not be 100% of the 7% change (depending on who you believe).
          3) worse free agency terms, less arbitration, worse ELCs, max contract lengths and limited variances.

          Not one thing the NHL has offered, is actually a step back from the status quo. Where the players would be offering something to the owners that is better than status quo.

          Thats why cherrypicking seems to only work one way here.

          Go Habs Go!
          Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
          http://lastwordonsports.com/

          • bwoar says:

            Allow me to cherry pick and mention 2-yr ELC’s.

          • commandant says:

            2 things

            1st, all union members who would be voting on the CBA already have a contract. Why does the shorter ELC become inviting to them?

            2nd, a shorter ELC and more limited arbitration rights is actually beneficial to the owners as it will drive down the value of the second contract, not increase it.

            Go Habs Go!
            Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
            http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • Blondie says:

      I’d love to see it too, and then I’d like to see it reciprocated.

      But if it’s half-assed or it’s comprehensive and then summarily dismissed I fear that will be the death knell for the season.


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