More hockey stories in HIO special section

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Here is this week’s crop of hockey stories from the Gazette’s Hockey Inside Out special section.

Pacioretty’s off-season a hurricane, by Dave Stubbs

Ronald Corey to enter Quebec Sports Hall of Fame, by Brenda Branswell

Both sides are wrong in the NHL labour dispute, by Aubrey Kent

Habs prospect turns heads in junior, by Pat Hickey

Montreal Stars dedicate game to breast cancer battle, by Pat Hickey

Bulldogs keep players hot for NHL start, by Pat Hickey

Lockout Tweetup: Fans express frustration, by Dave Stubbs

Crosby, Recchi, fans weight in on lockout, by Stu Cowan

AHL Wednesday matinee: Rochester dumps Hamilton Bulldogs 4-1.

124 Comments

  1. mark-ID says:

    Did anyone see Zlatan Ibrahimovich’s 4th goal of the night yesterday for Sweden against England…check it out. Unbelievable!! SOCCER

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az4mFb18DUE

    “I think I may have found a way for us to get Griffey and Bonds, and we really won’t have to give up much” -Costanza

  2. HabinBurlington says:

    Question to any of the Baseball or Blue Jay fans out there, any concern that Bud Selig hasn’t rubber stamped this trade yet? I heard a report this morning that as of last night Selig claimed to have not even received a request from both teams involved to review the trade.

    I know their are physicals pending also, but kind of wonder if MLB will not want a Canadian Team robbing an American team of talent cuz of payroll. I know it was more than acceptable for MLB to steal from the Expos and give to U.S. based teams, but this is kind of a role reversal.

    Has me curious at the least.

    • ed lopaz says:

      I would be shocked if Selig stepped in. The Marlins received some very good, young talent in return – some real MLB talent and some excellent prospects.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        It is the optics of the deal that concern me Ed. I doubt he will, but until this deal official I have a bad feeling. No doubt Florida got some good prospects, but lots of teams have prospects in baseball that never pan out.

    • B says:

      Thanks to the revenue sharing scheme in MLB, weasels like Loria can make more by spending minimum $s, discouraging fans and depressing his team revenues than he could by investing in improving and trying to build a competitive team. It can make optimizing the receiving of that revenue sharing a twisted major business plan objective for some owners (they can see the support from league and the other team’s revenues as more attractive than support from their fans).

    • Sean Bonjovi says:

      I don’t think Selig likes the deal because it hurts the “free-money-for-stadiums” scam MLB (& every other major sports league) is running, but disallowing the trade won’t change the public’s perception of the MLB in Miami, or anywhere probably, and those players will all just be traded to different teams, so I think the deal will be approved. My guess was that the delay was mostly do to Rogers needing to read every line of every contract.

      P.S. If the deal gets approved I’ll be interested to see what happens next. I still think they need to add a bat at 2nd base, and upgrade on at least one of Colby Rasmus, or Adam Lind.

  3. 24 Cups says:

    Stan Jonathan accidently kills another hunter.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409539

  4. Timo says:

    Markov should just retire and spare the Habs 5 mil per – http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/351285.html

    • myron.selby says:

      Yeah why would anyone want one of the top half dozen defencemen in the world on their roster. His recent injury could have happened to anyone and has nothing to do with his knee. If Markov comes back even at 80% of what he was, he’ll still be the best Hab skater.

      Nobody knows whether his knee will allow him to skate the way he did. If it does he’s pure gold. If not, he still has enough hockey smarts to be a top pair d-man even with his rushing ability impaired.

    • Ozmodiar says:

      The guy standing next to Markov in the picture doesn’t look very happy. I wonder who he is. His insurer, perhaps?

  5. joeybarrie says:

    Its really simple to me…
    Montreal fans are very passionate. Of course many fans are passionate. We show our passion by buying tickets, merchandise, etc, etc.
    So I truly hope people start to question the passion of the Owners and Players.
    OBVIOUSLY their passion is considerably lower than ours. OBVIOUSLY the success of the league and individual teams financially are the result of us passionate fans.
    Its clear the owners and players do not recognize this as a whole.
    If this was any other industry it would never recover from this and the league would fold.
    To me the lack of movement on both sides is a lack of respect for the fans and ultimate supporter of their financial gains. Even if some of them result in a loss, if you don’t like it, SELL. Don’t ruin the entire league.
    The NHL has been around for 95 years. For 95 years the fans have been gathering for games and supporting a league, helping it become what it is. As a fan we save money and buy into the owners pockets. As fans we set a certain amount of our time during hockey season to support their financial gain or loss. We write articles, we comment, we argue, we discuss. Everything good that is the NHL is 100% a result of the fans support.
    ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS AGREE.
    Its ridiculously pathetic.
    To me, its a huge lack of respect to their fans.
    And neither side is willing to budge in recognition of the very people who make it successful at all.
    I will of course watch the games and cheer for the Habs…. As hard as ever.
    But I will not buy and merchandise. I will not buy a ticket. Molson products… OUT. And I am now looking to find ways to diminish my support of every other owner and advertiser. To the extent of convenience of course. Its not the end of the world. But its the end of my full support for as long as this whole thing leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
    Honestly…. How hard is to to sit down and keep dealing until and agreement is made.
    EVERYONE in EVERY walk of life makes concessions. And if neither side can budge any further…. Simply meet half way from where you are now, and work hard to make sure you fix it all WHILE WE PLAY…. WHILE YOU MAKE MONEY. WHILE YOU DO WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO, which is respect the sanctity of the game and the financial and emotional support of the fans.
    Players don’t want to be taken advantage of…
    Owners don’t want to be taken advantage of…
    BUT ITS OK FOR BOTH TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE FANS…. Cause that is exactly what they are doing. THEY BOTH DESERVE TO PAY. AS DEARLY AS WE HAVE.
    And I would definitely be in support of any kind of movement to have Bettman fired.
    Don’t like JCPenney’s new pricing plans. Well earning went down to the lowest point ever. Don’t like the way Bettman is running this league? Find a way to show it in a way that has a final result.
    EMPTY ARENA.
    Fickle fans will not be so bold. But is the passionate ones are, the league will feel it for YEARS.
    and best of all, we can still follow on TV. I’m not saying we sacrifice our enjoyment. Just limit our support.
    When revenue sharing is a fraction of what it is now, they will all realize and NEVER risk it again. But people have to remain diligent.
    I can follow the team, but drastically reduce my support of the league.

    • wjc says:

      Joeybarrie, I am glad it is all simple to you, because for me it is complicated.

      May I refute some of your statements.

      NHL hockey is a business, both for the owners and the players. Owners set the venue’s and the teams put on the show.
      Fans pay for the privlege of watching. When they pay their money it becomes owners/leagues money to do as they wish.

      If you tap dance and I/others pay to watch you tap dance, it becomes your money to with as you please.

      Back to hockey, the success of the league is the result of the owners and players putting a good show on the ice to attract your dollars.

      The players play for money, make no mistake. This is what they do and they become rich….good for them. The owners invest for a return and they become rich…good for them.

      The fans stake in all of this is to enjoy the show. If there are many many fans that want to see the show, more then there is room for. The prices go up, if there are millions more who want to see the show, the price goes wayyyyyyyyy up. It is called supply and demand…..more demand then supply…price goes up…..more supply then demand….price goes down.

      This is basic economics.

      Try to understand, nobody is taking advantage of the fans. You have free will. If you drop out there are many new/old fans ready to take your place. You are not that relevant. Sorry to be so blunt!

      If you don’t want to buy tickets, merchandise etc. then don’t. If you think that a few hundred fans mean anything in the scheme of things, well you are entitled to those delusions.

      You are deprived of hockey and your feelings are hurt. You are saving money not buying right now….good for you. You are actually a head of the game.

      The owners pay good money for players, some as much as ten million dollars. They expect a return on investment on that player. If they spend 10 million they expect the return to be more then 10 million dollars.

      When a new collective agreement is ready to be agreed on, it has to be right. If the players expect too much of the revenue’s then an adjustment needs to happen.

      Bettman grew the league in the past years by billions and for that they pay him 8 million a year. The players have benefited from that growth and the owners are saying they are getting too much.

      3.3 billion dollars is a lot of money, and it has to divided fairly. The owners have said enough, this has to be straightened out. With Bettman growing revenues the league should be coasting along, with all the players happy as bugs in a rug. Instead you have millionaire, multi-millionaire players feeling hard done by.

      The owners are pissed off and the players are happy to keep going the way they were. My take anyways.The fans, well they are just fans. Go demand the movie industry to make another Batman movie, see where it gets you.

      wjc

      • Mike D says:

        May I refute some of your statements?

        First you say this:
        “Fans pay for the privlege of watching. When they pay their money it becomes owners/leagues money to do as they wish.”

        And then you say this:
        “The owners pay good money for players, some as much as ten million dollars. They expect a return on investment on that player.”

        Kind of contradictory, no? When it’s the fan forking over their money, they have no ‘rights’ and shouldn’t have expectations or a vested interest in what becomes of it, but when it’s the owners forking over their money, they’re allowed to have those things?

        - Honestly yours
        Twitter: @de_benny

        • Luke says:

          “Kind of contradictory, no? When it’s the fan forking over their money, they have no ‘rights’ and shouldn’t have expectations or a vested interest in what becomes of it, but when it’s the owners forking over their money, they’re allowed to have those things?”

          Money is being spent differently. The fan is paying for the product as a consumer. The Owner pays for the service, as an employer.

          You buy a case of beer, you can complain that the product is oxidized or flat & expect a refund, but you don’t get to complain that they leave the hops in for too long and expect them to change their staff or brewing procedures.

        • wjc says:

          Mike….no contradition…Owners take your money, it is their’s to do as they wish. They invest in players, because they own the business which includes the players.

          They take money and invest in players, so fans will become excited an pay for tickets, go deep into playoffs. This allows them to get a return on their investment, that is hopefully more then they payed for the player.

          The owner has to pay for players to play. He is a business man and is in if for the sole purpose of making a profit.

          If you bought a rare coin from me for $500.00, it is now your coin. If you add it to your collection knowing it is worth $5000.00, you have added to your business and owe me nothing, including an apology.

          If you sell the whole collection in 5 years for 5 million, then your coin collecting business has served it’s purpose.

          wjc

          • Gerry H says:

            Your analogy is way off the mark. People aren’t coins. The players are able to bargain, coins can’t. To suggest that Gary Bettman grew the NHL’s revenues to $3.3 billion is all well and good, but I sure as hell wouldn’t pay $200 to drink overpriced beer and watch him do his thing. If it was as simple as you suggest, we’d be watching replacement players by now and no one would miss a beat.

            The NHL is, or should be, a partnership between the owners and the players. When it works right, both prosper. Arguably, that’s exactly what happened over the course of the last CBA. Owners got their cap and “cost certainty” and players profited enormously from fast-growing revenues thanks to a first-rate product.

            It’s never a one-sided story. From where I sit – and, believe me, I’m no labourite – this comes down to the owners having overplayed their hand. Having thumped the PA last time, they were confident of doing it again. The players gave up 24% of their contracted earnings last time and are expected to give up another 12-13% this time. Moreover, they’re being expected to hand that back to the very men who were willingly signing those contracts at full value just weeks before the lockout was declared.

            You can’t have a partnership without trust. The owners have blatantly violated that trust. The conversation is now increasingly turning to the notion of who will pay for the damage caused by the lockout. What are we talking about? War reparations? Are they going to sign the new CBA at Versailles?

            I’ve kissed this season goodbye.

      • frontenac1 says:

        You are right sir, Hockey is a business. A rigged and corrupt business. We return again and again like any junkie to their pusher. For one more hit of the pure pleasure which we know is not as good as the last one and yet return we must. We are doomed and such is life. No right, No wrong, just Life.

  6. Mike D says:

    IF the whole season is lost this time around, I sincerely hope that it somehow leads to the removal of Gary Bettman as league Commissioner. I realize that’s unlikely, especially considering the massive extension he got recently, but if whatever agreement finally gets signed between the NHL and PA angers enough owners, then it is a possibility.

    At least that would be a win for the game and the fans, and would make this lockout ‘worth it’ in the long run.

    - Honestly yours
    Twitter: @de_benny

    • mdp2011 says:

      While I understand your frustration and dislike of Bettman, it won’t happen. Bettman is doing what he is doing because that is what the owners want him to do. If the whole season is lost (which I believe will happen) the owners are the ones who will be responsible, not Bettman. Bettman is the bad guy in all of this because he is front and center, but he is not the one who sets the agenda, the owners do.

      • mark-ID says:

        Actually, you don’t give Bettman enough credit. As it has been stated many times, he only needs 8 owners on his side in order to make decisions. Of course he has owners on his side, but it definately isn’t all of them. Also, there’s no saying he has the majority supporting him, that is an assumption.

        Look at a guy like Melnyk in Ottawa, he has already spoken out ‘essentially’ against this lockout. I am almost positive that Molson is in the same boat. Not only are the Canadiens not making money, Molson beer is also suffering because of this lockout.

        “I think I may have found a way for us to get Griffey and Bonds, and we really won’t have to give up much” -Costanza

        • mdp2011 says:

          Yes, you are correct that he only needs 8 owners on his side, but it’s the owners who gave him that power. The problem is not Bettman, the problem is those 8 hardline owners that are causing this mess, from which Bettman takes his queues from. I agree there are moderate owners that would be rather playing, but unfortunately as you said, the power is with those 8 hardline owners. So if you want to blame anyone for this lockout, blame Jacobs, Snyder and the rest of the hardliners, not Bettman.

          • mark-ID says:

            Agreed. But at the end of the day…..if 8 owners want a lockout, while the other 22 want to play….and Bettman decides ok let’s keep them locked out(even though an overwhelming majority want to play)…..he is ultimately the one who gets to make that final decision. Unfortunately the owners gave him that power.
            But of course the owners are also to blame, as are the players.

            “I think I may have found a way for us to get Griffey and Bonds, and we really won’t have to give up much” -Costanza

          • Mike D says:

            I think Bettman has more power than you give him credit for. I know that GB just represents the owners and speaks/negotiates on behalf of their interests, but to absolve him of responsibility is also drastically incorrect.

            Numerous former GM’s and team Presidents, hockey analysts, agents, etc. have stated on multiple occasions that Bettman in large part runs the show. Sure he has to answer to the owners and is responsible to them, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t imposing his will in a big way.

            BTW, that stipulation that GB only needs 8 owners approval as opposed to the 16 he would require for a true majority in a 30 team league….who do you think came up with that? It was GB himself and the owners signed off on it.

            - Honestly yours
            Twitter: @de_benny

          • wjc says:

            What about Molson, do you know for sure where he stands. Melnyk could have been just trying to appease the fans.

            No one knows for sure where any of the owners stand because they all agreed to a gag order.

            Too blame the owners of teams you do not like may not be realistic. Some of these owners you mention have successful franchises but have issues with the revenue distribution.

            I think they are all upset with the revenue distribution the way it turned out. If these other teams become self sufficient it adds to Molson’s bottom line as well.

            wjc

    • 24 Cups says:

      If the season is lost it would also make sense that the NHLPA would remove Fehr. No season = failure on both sides of the table. That would make it four leaders in the past seven years.

      • ed lopaz says:

        it has been widely reported that Donald Fehr agreed to work this file and then he will be leaving his post – and Steve Fehr is scheduled to take over.

        every day that passes the players eventual settlement will be worth less – never more.

        that is the way every CBA in the NHL has been concluded, and that is the way this one will finally end.

        Fehr’s position that his holding out will earn more for the NHLPA is misguided.

        why?

        Bettman can never allow this to happen, because then each future negotiation will fall back to this case, where the owners eventually caved.

        And the owners of the league will no longer control their businesses.

        THAT is the scenario that gets Bettman fired, and he will never allow that to happen.

        • Mike D says:

          To say that the players settlement will be worth less every day that passes is an incomplete and very short-sighted view, Ed. If you mean that they are missing paycheques as the weeks pass by then you are correct…..DEPENDING on what the make whole eventually looks like. However, the make whole provision wasn’t even on the table a few weeks ago, and has also been increased since it’s initial offer to give the players more. That alone is enough to tell you that the players aren’t necessarily losing more by waiting.

          Whatever agreement eventually gets made will be in place for the duration of that new CBA and both sides have to consider their long-term interests.

          - Honestly yours
          Twitter: @de_benny

          • wjc says:

            Mike, as the days/weeks go by the make whole amount has to increase. So you start chasing the lost revenues and eventually, there is a take if or leave it.

            If you leave it, the season is over. If you take it the make whole is what we last offered, end of discussion.

            Do you see that everyday day that goes by games/revenues are lost forever and you cannot chase your losses.

            Settling and playing means the losses stop…..the owners tried to appease the P.A. only to told, sorry not enough…..and as time goes on the “the not enough, number increases.”

            wjc

      • Mike D says:

        I think Donald Fehr’s involvement in the NHLPA was a one-time thing for this CBA only anyways.

        - Honestly yours
        Twitter: @de_benny

        • 24 Cups says:

          Mike & Ed – Handing off the reins of control and power to your brother really isn’t much of a change in terms of the membership.

          Thank goodness for that October escrow cheque.

    • wjc says:

      The only thing the owners are angry about right now is the distribution of revenue’s.

      Bettman is the face of “owners” side of the dispute. Crosby is the face of the Pitsburgh penquins and at the moment the players association. Fehr is the face of negotiations on the players side.

      If the owners had their way they would probably hire some goons and you can fill in the rest. They are not angry with Bettman, he is not the reason for all these problems. He is a business grower and problem solver and a voice of reason.

      wjc

      • Mike D says:

        Distribution or revenue is NOT the only point of contention for the owners. Where on earth did you get that from?

        Gary Bettman is the “voice of reason”? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

        - Honestly yours
        Twitter: @de_benny

        • wjc says:

          Yes, Bettman is the voice of reason. Revenue’s and make whole are the main obsticles, the other stuff can be traded off you give up this and we will give you that, sort of thing.

          Do you always write…ha ha ha ha ….when you laugh.

          wjc

  7. Mattyleg says:

    Not surprised, by the way, that HH loves the lockout so much.

    What’s better than intentionally losing?

    Not Playing At All.

    Just makes sense, don’t it?

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • Cal says:

      He’ll be the first in line for a ticket when they come back. ;)

    • Trisomy 21 says:

      I, don’t get the point, of your comment, William, Shatner.
      trying to build discontent towards HH? it’s like the elementary school playground all over again.
      Soon you can say you have more efriends, then you can all point and laugh and then he won’t post his opinions anymore!

      • punkster says:

        If anyone can take a well intentioned friendly ribbing it’s HH…no need to handle him with kid gloves…and he certainly doesn’t shy away from stirring the pot at every possible opportunity.

        ***Subbang Baby!!!***

      • Mattyleg says:

        Hmm. A few things to mention here:

        1. You seem to be poking fun at my use of commas. They are, in fact, grammatically correct. They can be used in the place of parentheses to separate an interjection, like this one, into a sentence. Now you know! We’ll discuss your capitalization lapses in our next lesson.

        2. I’m not trying to build anything, except smiles upon faces. HH will be well aware that I’m poking fun at him, as he has done to me and many others in the past. He’ll see it as a sign of love; better to be talked about than not talked about, kind of thing.

        3. I’m sure you’ll get a box of Laura Secord treats from him for standing up for him, though.

        4. Nothing that I can say will stop him from posting his opinions.

        —Hope Springs Eternal—

        • Trisomy 21 says:

          Lapses? I’m assuming you mean the one capital letter missed. If we’re going to nit pick on little typos don’t forget that there should be a comma rather than a period after “Hmm,” as it is not a sentance. Maybe brush up on the use of plurals. Although I wasn’t using the Shatner comment to criticize your use of puntuation. I just thought the sentence looked like a line from the original Star Trek.

          As for standing up for HH, I just see people jump on one another all too often on these forums that it gets ridiculus, it’s nothing personal I hold with HH. Looks to me like I misjudged your comment, as it seems like this was all in good fun. That’s my bad.

          • Mattyleg says:

            I’m sorry if I was overly harsh on you; I didn’t take to the playground reference and the implied slight on my grammar/punctuation.

            To clarify punctuation, btw, ‘hmm’ can be a sentence. Onopatapoeia, interjections, etc. can all stand as sentences on their own. Yikes! is an example. There are two missing capitals in your post, just to put the record straight.

            Perhaps a little :) after jests might help things in the future.

            Apologies, T21, no hard feelings.

            —Hope Springs Eternal—

  8. Habfan10912 says:

    Is the damage to the game permanent this time?
    http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nhl&id=20265
    ———————————–

  9. Mustang says:

    I can remember the press conference announcing the hiring of Rejean Houle like it was yesterday. I turned to my wife and stated that they must have hired a very experienced coach to make up for the totally inexperienced GM. When they introduced Mario Tremblay as the new coach, I knew that the team was in big trouble, but I had no idea that it would turn out as badly as it did. Roy thought that Mario was an idiot for whom he had absolutely no respect. It all blew up a couple of months later and the team has yet to regain it’s past glory.

  10. Ron says:

    Amusing tweet from this morning from a gentleman from Quebec:

    ” Help break the cycle of poverty ! Sponsor an NHL player for $200,000 per month. You will even receive an autographed picture ! ”

    He sent this to the NHLPA. Quite funny

  11. Chuck says:

    In regards to the post below suggesting that the Stanley Cup being awarded to a non-NHL team… well, it was originally presented as a challenge cup, right? If the season WAS cancelled, how about using it as an opportunity to raise some big-time money for charity (and good-will publicity fror the NHL?)

    For x-amount of dollars, your team could compete in the ultimate Stanley Cup tournamant. Divide teams (amateur only) between ‘East’ and ‘West’, with the winner of each division playing off for the Cup, ust like the used to do before the NHL. While the winner wouldnt be ‘official’, ie: have their team inscribed, you could still call yourselves Stanley Cup Champions until its presented again, have a banner made, and spend a day with the Cup.

    As an added bonus, you could be on the ice to hand over the Cup to the next NHL winner. Your team would probably be booed less than Bettman.

    ___________________________________________________
    Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I like that idea CHuck, I also wouldn’t mind if the cup was awarded to the winning team at the World Hockey Championships in Europe. If indeed full lockout, wouldn’t Team Canada have a great opportunity to win it? Could be the best hockey we get to watch this next calendar year.

    • Mattyleg says:

      Last lockout, a men’s leage in BC (or somewhere) claimed that they wanted to have the Stanley Cup awarded to them because it was originally given to the best ice hockey team in the Dominion of Canada.

      It was kind of tongue-in-cheek, but those madcap, laugh-a-minute lawyers who run the NHL trotted out a legally-binding cease-and-desist order that verified themselves as the Sole and Unequivocal Owners Of The Stanley Cup In Perpetuum, and they would only ever give it to the team that won their league, so there.

      I agree, it would be great.

      Problem is, the NHL doesn’t like things that are great, except if they generate money, or, in the case of Phoenix, are a personal hobby-horse of the Commissioner (Praise be His name).

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • wjc says:

        Matteleg. It is a business. There sole/only purpose is to generate money. If they did not generate money they would cease to exist.

        The lawyers probably realized some nut would actually challenge them and covered this possible loop hole off.

        Repeat after me….NHL is a business, when I was 9 years old I did not realize this. As an adult (you are over 18 years old, I hope) with maturity comes knowledge (sometimes). Adults know/should know that the players play for money (lots of money) and they get lots of money because the NHL is a business.

        The sole purpose of the NHL is to make as much money as possible, because, like Walmart they are a business. It is not a charity, it is A BUSINESS.

        Fans pay……money goes to owners to do as they wish….players get their cut (not all of it) and everyone is supposed to be happy.

        wjc

        • Mattyleg says:

          When did you become a troll?
          You used to be a bit of fun, which was what my post was supposed to be.
          But thank you for the condescending soap-box diatribe.

          —Hope Springs Eternal—

          • wjc says:

            Mattyleg, how do you know I am not kidding you back, and I was never any fun it is not in my ‘condescending nature”

            You used two sentences, to call me a “troll”, condescending and standing on a soap box, diatribe(ing). What a way to condense everything economically into such a small space.

            I used to like you Matty but you make it hard when you hurt my feelings so badly

            I thought the beer league guys was something that really happened. I didn’t realize you made it all up and was not to be taken seriously.
            wjc

          • Mattyleg says:

            I called you a troll, which is an appropriate name for someone whose post reads like yours did.
            Perhaps you just got the tone wrong, but I’ve read a few things from you recently that have demonstrated that same kind of aggression. I figured you were doing the same thing to me. I never got the impression that you were kidding.

            As for the beer league guys, it did happen.

            You used my post to get angry about people thinking that hockey isn’t a business. I never said anything about that in my post. My comment about making money refers to the fact that allowing another league to present the Stanley Cup when they aren’t doing it themselves would cost the NHL no money, and therefore, as simply a cool thing to do, would never squirm its way into the NHL’s increasingly drab, lawyerly, and money-centric thinking.

            —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • wjc says:

      One small question. How would you get the “Stanley Cup”. I think it is locked up somewhere, like Fort Knox or somewhere similiar.

      You people are so amusing.

      wjc

  12. Phil C says:

    I enjoyed the Aubrey Kent article. Both sides are indeed wrong. It is why I think they desperately need a mediator to help them frame the discussion better.

    I didn’t realize the NHLPA offered a flat of $45M for 7 seasons last team. In hindsight, that would have been a great deal for the owners. But I still think a linked system is better for both sides because it eliminates a lot of the risk for the owners (eliminating risk is usually never cheap, ie. hedging, insurance, etc) and it allows the players to participate in any unforeseen upside. This is why I don’t understand why the NHPA is asking for fixed salaries in the first few years of this deal.

    • Mike D says:

      Technically the players aren’t asking for fixed salaries. What they are asking for is that the salaries they were awarded in their contracts pre-lockout be upheld post-lockout.

      - Honestly yours
      Twitter: @de_benny

      • Phil C says:

        Yes, you are referring to the make whole provision. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the NHLPA wants $1.883B + 1.75%, then adjusted for games lost in the first year, and not linked to HRR, while the NHL wants to negotiate on a percentage. Silly if you ask me because the difference in practical terms would likely be very little.

        • Mike D says:

          I’m not 100% sure Phil, but I think the PA DOESN’T want any adjustments due to games lost in the first year. I could be mistaken, but I believe that their stance was that since this was an owner-imposed work stoppage, they (players) shouldn’t suffer any monetary losses as a result. The rest of the PA proposal you listed is correct for sure.

          As for what the ‘difference’ would be in terms of the actual dollars between the two proposals, I guess that depends on what source you listen to. Some say they’re close, some cite a $400 million difference on the make whole. To me, the difference is largely an X-factor since future league revenues are an unknown and could very well see a decline as a negative result of this lockout.

          - Honestly yours
          Twitter: @de_benny

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Phil, this guy agrees with you.

      http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nhl&id=20257

      ———————————–

  13. Ozmodiar says:

    I see that some are assuming a ‘lost season’ draft lottery will be the same as last time. AFAIK, this has yet to be decided. Unless I missed something…

    • Mattyleg says:

      Yes, you missed The Pessimism.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • HabinBurlington says:

        In fairness, I don’t think it is pessimism or a stretch to assume that a lottery would be used very similar to the last time. The only challenge this time around is how to disguise either Boston or Philly getting the #1 choice overall. Might be hard to give Mario another #1 pick like the lottery did last time, which of course was pure chance. ;-)

        • Mattyleg says:

          No, it’s not, but The Pessimism is certainly a valuable asset to have in order to properly sound the Doom Gong.

          It would, however, suck to be us.

          And are you suggesting, in a completely overt and unambiguous way, that there may be some form of cronyism and favouritism at work within the complex and non-partisan machinery of the NHL front office, and that the only reason we can’t see it is because of the smoke generated by the stogies made from million-dollar bills that they’re all smoking?

          Are you? Are you saying that?

          —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • Ozmodiar says:

        :)
        Oh man, of all the things to miss…

        I’ll admit, I’m a bit worried the lottery would be the same, but I’m holding out hope.

        I’d hate to see our hopes riding on a lottery win when our Habs are more than capable of earning a top pick on their own.

    • Mike D says:

      That has not been decided yet and likely won’t until (if) the season gets officially scrapped – you haven’t missed anything, Oz.

      That said, it is the likely outcome for the draft should the season get cancelled. The precedent was set in the last lockout and in matters like this, precedents usually determine what happens in the future in similar situations.

      I really hope they change it since that format would not be good for our Habs’ odds of getting a lottery pick, but I wouldn’t expect it.

      - Honestly yours
      Twitter: @de_benny

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Good point Oz but wouldn’t the precedent established by the prior post missed season be difficult to change if this season is indeed lost? I hope you’re correct and they come up with another system but…..

      ———————————–

  14. HammerHab says:

    CHL wants the Stanley Cup if lockout continues:

    http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/jrhockey-buzzing-the-net/chlpa-tweets-bid-control-over-stanley-cup-lockout-184924923.html

    ———————————–

    It’ll always be Habs Inside/Out to me

    • Mike D says:

      That whole thing started almost a week ago and the notion has already been rejected by the powers that be.

      - Honestly yours
      Twitter: @de_benny

      • Habfan10912 says:

        Good thing.

        ———————————–

      • HammerHab says:

        what powers that be? the Cup isn’t owned by anybody.

        ———————————–

        It’ll always be Habs Inside/Out to me

        • Mike D says:

          These powers (per Wikipedia):

          “Since then (1947), the league has maintained effective control over both the trophy itself and its associated trademarks. Nevertheless, the NHL does not actually own the trophy, but instead uses it by agreement with the Cup’s two trustees.”

          “In 1947, the NHL reached an agreement with trustees P.D. Ross and Cooper Smeaton to grant control of the Cup to the NHL, allowing the league to reject challenges from other leagues that may have wished to play for the Cup.”

          “The regulations set down by Lord Stanley call for two Trustees, who had the sole, joint right to govern the Cup and the conditions of its awarding until 1947, when they ceded control to the NHL.”

          I hope you don’t take this post or my previous one the wrong way. Depending on how you read it, it could come off as jerky on my part, but that’s not my intention at all. I just wanted to clarify that the CHL’s bid to award the Stanley Cup to one of it’s teams this year was already shot down.

          - Honestly yours
          Twitter: @de_benny

    • Phil C says:

      The Cup custodians are on record saying that the Stanley Cup should only be awarded if the best players in the world are playing.

      If the players organized a rival league to the NHL and took most of the best players with them, I think the custodians would have no choice but to let the new League’s champion team compete against the NHL for the Cup.

  15. Habfan10912 says:

    For those that have access to MSG. At noon a KHL matchup of Dynamo Minsk vs SKA St. Petersburg. Kovalchuk and Kane amoung those scheduled to play.

    ———————————–

  16. Cal says:

    It’s a very good thing to have all those articles every Thursday. Thanks, everyone!

  17. 24 Cups says:

    Dobber’s updated prospect list. (not sure why he doesn’t change the date on the article).

    http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106:top-215-prospects&catid=26:rankings

  18. 24 Cups says:

    If there is no NHL season this year, it means that Montreal’s chances in the entry draft drop considerably. They would only have a 2% chance of getting the top pick and a 10% chance of going top five. Those odds would have increased significantly if the Habs needed to play out the schedule and attempt to qualify for the playoffs. Here’s a preliminary ranking list.

    http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/48851-2013-NHL-draft-rankings.html

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Weird, I was convinced I posted a link to a story from NHL.com providing details of how the lottery would work and now that post is gone.

      Edit: If indeed entire season is lost, this is how the previous draft worked when season lost.

      http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26401

      • Habfan10912 says:

        You did I saw it. Couldn’t open the link though. Weird, eh?!

        ———————————–

      • 24 Cups says:

        Craig Button also puts out some lists on TSN but his ratings are a bit off the wall. He usually revamps them once Bob McKenzie brings out his final spring ratings.

        I’m not trying to be a downer here, but back in September I figured the chances of the Habs making the playoffs were slim. One more top ten (or top five!) pick would have been great for the new rebuild.

        I read somewhere that the new lottery would have five teams with three lottery balls. I can’t remember the teams but Columbus has to be one of the five. I know that Edmonton only gets one due to the fact they have drafted first the past three years.

        • JF says:

          Toronto would certainly have three balls.

        • Habfan10912 says:

          Thought I read somewhere that the this draft was quite deep. If that’s the case let’s hope that Timmins finds some really good players further down. I also think we have to 2 2nd’s this year. That should help, eh?

          ———————————–

          • JF says:

            We have three seconds – our own, Calgary’s (the Cammalleri trade), and Nashville’s (the AK46 trade). Should help a lot, but another high first-rounder would help the most. If the season gets played, we could be picking in the top ten or even the top five.

          • Habfan10912 says:

            @JF, even better. Thanks for clearification.

            ———————————–

          • 24 Cups says:

            2nd rounders have about a 20% chance of becoming decent NHLers. This year’s draft has a golden top five who could turn a franchise around. Four are centres and one is a Dman.

            From where I sit, the prime directive in Montreal is to get one of those five guys. There has to be a regular season this year in order for that to happen. Otherwise, it’s a 10% chance that we will land a great prospect this June.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            @24 Cups, I don’t disagree with your theory. A complete lost season to lockout is almost a worst case scenario for Montreal, whereas in Toronto I have heard the sports talk shows discussing how it could be the best thing for the Leafs. That sucks as a Habs fan living amongst the enemy. :)

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      I bet the weasel Bettman would find a way to game the system for his favourite struggling franchises.


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  19. otter649 says:

    Scott Gomez gets the game winning goal as well as an assit in his first game with The Alaska Aces……

  20. Cal says:

    Lockout Bettman Style!
    http://calsnhllockout2012songparodies.weebly.com/

    -EDIT- Thanks for all the kind words!

  21. HabinBurlington says:

    I suppose Ronald Corey is worthy of some acclamation for the work he did as President of Habs as during that time 2 cups and a new building.

    However, to me the biggest architect of those 2 Cups was Patrick Roy, and under Corey’s watch Roy was shipped out for nothing.

    End of day, my lasting memory of Corey is Roy walking past Tremblay and telling Corey that was his last game.

    I think Roy should take some blame for that matter, but to me the Organization, from the President down the line was ultimately responsible. Suffice to say the legacy of Corey to me, is not keeping with Hall of Fame.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Good morning Gerald! Agree! His role n the Roy trade tarnishes his record. As far as the new building? It’s a nice place and all but I liked the old one better. :)

      ———————————–

  22. Clay says:

    Also – why did my ‘submit comment’ button disappear from Firefox?
    __________________________
    ☞ The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. ~ Richard Feynman ☜

  23. Clay says:

    Who writes these poll questions – TSN? They are so sad lately, making a complex issue into a much too simple yes and no answer.

    For the record, I voted yes on the poll. But does that mean I am hoping for a wage rollback on the players? Well, not exactly.
    You see, I don’t think the owners should make as much either. So under the status-quo I would like to see the owners cave in, and not take from the players share – especially since the game has rapidly expanded its revenue over the past decade or so.

    Ideally though, I would like to see revenues DROP significantly, because less is charged for tickets to the fans – you know, the real people who pay the players. Since this will not happen – and although I concede that the players are GROSSLY overpaid – I am on the players side. They do all the work, and take all the risk (physically).

    So I reiterate – this is a simplistic poll question, breaking down a complex issue into a child-like question.

    __________________________
    ☞ The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. ~ Richard Feynman ☜

  24. Timo says:

    LOL. Reggie Houle has the most clueless face I’ve ever seen.

  25. ProHabs says:

    That guy in the picture on the left was one knob of a GM. Set this organization back for a decade with his stupid moves.

  26. Boomer says:

    I can’t get over that Brossoit kid. what a game.

  27. commandant says:

    WHL/Russia Game ihas been really good.

    Sam Reinhart (2014 draft) impressing.

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  28. otter649 says:

    Premiere….


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