Memorial Cup memories from Habs; Churla hired as chief amateur scout

The Halifax Mooseheads (photo above) won their first Memorial Cup on Sunday night, beating the Portland Winterhawks 6-4 in the final in Saskatoon.

Nathan MacKinnon had a hat-trick for the Mooseheads, including the final goal into an empty net, while Jonathan Drouin had five assists. MacKinnon is ranked second among North American skaters by NHL Central Scouting for next month’s entry draft, while Drouin is ranked third.

“I might not score a bigger goal in my life,” MacKinnon, told reporters afterwards about his empty-netter. “It’s just … 22 seconds left. We won it. We’re champions. The empty netter will be in my mind forever.” 

MacKinnon, who grew up in Halifax, added two assists in the final game and was named the tournament’s most valuable player after scoring seven goals and adding six assists in four games. Drouin posted 1-8-9 totals in four games. Portland Winterhawks defenceman Seth Jones, ranked No. 1 by Central Scouting, had 2-2-4 totals in five games.

This marked the third straight year a QMJHL team won the Memorial Cup, following the Saint John Sea Dogs in 2011 and the Shawinigan Cataractes last year.

The Canadiens announced Monday that they have hired Shane Churla as their chief amateur scout. The 47-year-old comes to the Canadiens after working as an amateur scout with the Dallas Stars organization. A sixth-round pick of the Hartford Whalers at the 1985 entry draft, Churla spent 11 seasons in the NHL with the Whalers, Flames, North Stars/Stars, Kings and Rangers. In 488 games, he had 26 goals and 45 assists to go along with 2,301 penalty minutes.

“Shane played a major role in our amateur scouting department and we want to thank him for his eight years of dedicated service to the Dallas Stars organization.” Stars GM Jim Nill told the Dallas Morning News. “We also want to congratulate Shane on his promotion to Montreal and wish him only the best in his future endeavors.” 

In other news Monday, Canadiens prospect Dalton Thrower was traded by the WHL’s Saskatoon Blades to the Vancouver Giants. The Canadiens’ second-round pick (51st overall) at the 2012 entry draft, Thrower posted 6-21-27 totals to go with a plus-18 in 54 games with the Blades the season.

Meanwhile, Halifax captain Trey Lewis has something in common with a couple of current Canadiens: Francis Bouillon and Josh Gorges were both captains of their junior teams when they won the Memorial Cup.

Bouillon was captain of the Granby Predateurs when they became the first Quebec team in 25 years to win the Memorial Cup in 1996 with Michel Therrien as his coach.

“It’s a pretty funny story,” Therrien once recalled in an interview with Gazette sports editor Stu Cowan about the day he named Bouillon captain. “He was not the captain when we started the season. We sat down together and I asked him what it would mean for him to be captain of our team. And he was giving me all the right answers: ‘I have to lead by example, I have to work hard, I have to do this, I have to do that.’ I said: ‘You forgot something.’ He said: ‘What?’ I said: ‘You have to want to be the first guy to lift the Memorial Cup.’ That was our goal, and he did it, 25 years after Guy Lafleur (with the Quebec Remparts).”

Recalled Bouillon before this season: “That was my last year (in junior) as a 20-year-old. He brought me in his office and said: ‘I believe in this team and we’re going to have a great season. You’re going to be my captain and your job will be to help me bring the team together.’ We worked together a lot during the season. Every week I was in his office to give him feedback on how the guys were feeling, if the team was tired, what the team needs to be better. It was a great season and my best memory of Michel was when we won the Memorial Cup.”

Gorges, who was born and raised in Kelowna, B.C., was captain when the Kelowna Rockets won the Memorial Cup in 2004.

“The best memories you have of winning are of the battles you go through with the guys,” Gorges told canadiens.com. “You come out of a game and look around the room and all you see is guys that are banged up – they’ve got ice-packs on their shoulders on their knees, cuts and stitches – and you know how tired they are because you know how tired you are. Then you get up the next day to play and you look around the room and all the guys that were beat down the day before are all fired up and ready to go right back and battle some more. When you win together you become friends forever. Most of those guys that I won with on that team are all my good friends still today.”

(Photo by Liam Richards/The Canadian Press)

MacKinnon, Drouin lead Mooseheads to Memorial Cup, montrealgazette.com

Habs’ Prust has fond memories of Memorial Cup win, by Stu Cowan

Final NHL Central Scouting draft rankings, NHL.com

572 Comments

  1. Chris says:

    @StevenO:

    “I doubt very highly if we would discover even one other team where the defencemen who was on for the most goals per minute of ice time at even strength was also the defencemen who played the highest average number of minutes per game.”

    Here’s some examples. Below are the defencemen ranked in terms of total even strength average ice time, with their ice time per even-strength goal against in brackets.

    Chicago Black Hawks

    1. Duncan Keith – 19:05 (26:23)
    2. Niklas Hjalmarsson – 18:06 (32:02)
    3. Johnny Oduya – 17:36 (31:17)
    4. Brent Seabrook – 17:31 (26:34)
    5. Michal Rozsival – 16:37 (37:23)
    6. Nick Leddy – 14:45 (39:22)
    7. Sheldon Brookbank – 12:06 (28:34)

    Keith and Seabrook are the worst performers on a very good Chicago team, yet they were generally Quenneville’s go-to defenders and are the pairing that are often pointed to by fans of other teams. Keith is the worst on the team, but gets the most ice time.

    Detroit Red Wings

    1. Niklas Kronwall – 18:01 (21:06)
    2. Jonathan Ericsson – 17:55 (28:48)
    3. Ian White – 16:59 (38:53)
    4. Brendan Smith – 15:58 (41:46)
    5. Kyle Quincey – 15:45 (31:31)
    6. Jakub Kindl – 15:40 (42:50)
    7. Brian Lashoff – 15:15 (22:32)

    Kronwall is by far the worst performer in this stat, when you factor in that Lashoff is barely a regular. But Kronwall is also without a doubt the best defenceman on that team.

    St. Louis Blues

    1. Alex Pietrangelo – 19:14 (20:32)
    2. Jay Bouwmeester** – 19:04 (44:31)
    3. Ian Cole** – 17:14 (25:52)
    4. Kevin Shattenkirk – 16:54 (30:03)
    5. Barret Jackman – 16:30 (26:11)
    6. Roman Polak – 16:24 (29:10)
    7. Jordan Leopold** – 16:08 (34:34)
    8. Kris Russell – 14:52 (35:03)
    9. Wade Redden** – 13:56 (21:23)

    A tougher team to evaluate because of mid-season changes. They brought in Leopold and Bouwmeester at the deadline, and got rid of Redden and moved Russell and Cole out of their starting line-up.

    But still, Alex Pietrangelo was the runaway loser when it came to average ice-time per goal against, yet Ken Hitchcock kept going back to him. If you factor in the unbelievably steadying influence of Jay Bouwmeester (44 minutes is a staggering figure for a guy playing the type of minutes he was), Pietrangelo was even worse off earlier in the season.

    Summary

    Ken Hitchcock, Joel Quenneville and Mike Babcock are three of the best coaches in the business, particularly when it comes to defensive hockey. These guys didn’t just wave a magic wand or talk to an oracle when they assigned ice time, they doled it out on the basis of the players who would give their respective teams the best chance to win.

    Kronwall in Detroit, Pietrangelo in St. Louis and Keith in Chicago are the best hopes for their respective clubs, just as Markov was probably the second best option in Montreal. I would have preferred to see Subban getting those minutes, but the team clearly wasn’t ready to give that responsibility to Subban. They will next season.

    But coaches routinely give ice time to the best guys, the veterans, because they think those guys represent their best chance to counter the quality players being iced by the opposing coach.

    Given that Quenneville finished 1st overall, Therrien finished 4th overall, Hitchock finished 6th overall and Babcock finished 13th overall, I think they probably had the right idea even if the size of the discrepancy can be debated.

    In the case of Markov vs. Diaz, the one thing we have to be careful of is that Diaz missed such a huge chunk of ice time which coincided with the wheels falling off the bus. His absence was of course part of that, but the Swarm as a whole was getting figured out and the defence was exposed time and time again. Fortunately for Diaz’s numbers, he missed the majority of that, only coming back at the end of the season for 4 games.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Game, set and match, I guess.

    • SteverenO says:

      @ Chris; I am impressed with your response, and the research you put into it to prove my statement wrong. I stand corrected there are, as yo u have pointe out, some teams where the defenseman with the worst goals against to minutes played ratio also plays the most minutes.

      After reflecting on your post , however I did notice that in each of those cases the players you cited ( Keith Seabrook, Kronwall Petrangelo, were also at, or near, the top of their teams ratios for goals SCORED per minute played at even strength.

      Keith Seabrook and Peitrangelo with Subban like numbers of 18, 19 , and 20 minutes per goal scored respectively and Kronwall at 24 minutes per goal scored.

      Markov at 21 minutes per goal against would rank 22nd of the the 23 defencemen you mentioned and at 27 minutes per GF would rank (___15th_of the 23 d-men)___to be filled in later -probably near the bottom) and much worse than ALL of the “go to” players in your example.

      In any case I do commend you, once again, for an excellent rebuttal to my post. It sure beats the “this guy sucks” or “you think you know more than the coach” arguments that are often thrown around here.

      edit :; Markov would rank 7th in goals for per minutes of ice time on the wings ahead of only Brookbank 5th on the Redings ahead of Quincy, Lashoff, and Brendan Smith. And 6th m the blues ahead Leopold ian cole, and slightly better than Shattenkirk.

      Furthermore Keith and Seabrook were just about the most productive offensively (behind only Roszival), Kronwall & Ericcson were most productive offensively for the Redwings (with the exception of KIndl) and Pietrangelo was by far the most productive offensive Blues D-Man . In other words they were not necessarily played top minutes by their coaches because of their defensive abilities. In Therrien case Markov was the worst , statistically, in both the offensive and defensive categories yet still played top line minutes every single game.

      »With that,I rest my case, and leave it in the hands of the jury to decide.

      regards,

      Steve O.

      • Chris says:

        Steven:

        I’ve mentioned it before, but I also keep track of these particular stats as I think they are very useful for charting players. But Montreal was a funny team this season. They were very good defensively at the start, and then the wheels fell off.

        Markov was also a funny player this year. He was overplayed when he was clearly struggling, as was Emelin. And I (along with JF and some others) are HUGE Diaz supporters…I think the kid is great.

        I just disagree a little bit with how far we can extrapolate the numbers. Diaz tends to struggle when he was matched against the big, strong forwards, just as Markov did. For that reason, I’m not sure that swapping one out for the other would appreciably change the numbers we’re quoting above.

        Both guys need steady, stay-at-home partners to clean up the mess. Mike Komisarek was brilliant in this role with Markov, and they’ve been looking for a replacement since he left.

  2. SteverenO says:

    @bwoar; you wrote;

    Love your enthusiasm, cringe at your overuse of GF/A per minutes played.
    ************************************************
    Thanks bwoar, all I need is LOVE.

    I admit that I tend to rely on that as a measuring stick. I have found no other measurements that are both a simple to understand and are incredibly accurate depiction of a players relative performance/value.

    What I would really like is to have access to those same numbers by line, defence pairing, or even better, by 5 man units.

    What i like about the statistic is that it is a team stat, and NOT an individual stat, I agree with what others have said that it is difficult to use an individual statistics to measure a players relative performance. for example, plus minus by itself is meaningless.

    Lets look at a good example of two players; Hossa from Chicago and St.Louis form tampa Bay. Both scored 17 goals, Hossa had only 14 assists, -31 pts total and St-Louis had 43 assists- 60 points total. Hossa was a plus 20 and St-Louis was even (+0), albeit on a much weaker team. Offensively both teams were pretty equal averaging 3.01 and 3.1 goals per game respectively.To show how “accurate” my preferred stats are; The Lightning scored an average of one goal every 16.5 minutes when St-Louis was on th eice and teh Hawks scpored one goal every 16.8 minutes when Hossa was on the ice.

    Defensively the numbers were not even close, Both for the team as a whole Chicago allowing 2..o2 goals per game and TB allowing 3.06 goal per game. Hossa was one of the top forwards in the league defensively allowing only one goall against every 43 minutes at even strength, while the Lightning were scored against every 16.5 minutes when St.Louis was on the ice. The Lightnings best defensive forward was probably Tom Pyatt who was scored against once every 25 minutes at even strength, Chicago’s worst defensive forward was probably Bolland who was on for one goal every 18 minutes.

    So to summarize which of the following two sets of numbers give you a more complete picture:

    Hossa — 17 G , 14 A – 31 Pts (+20)
    Saint Louis– 17 G, 43 A – 60 Pts (even)

    Bolland – 7 G , 7 A – 14 pts (-7)
    Pyatt 8 G , 8 A – 16 pts (+5)

    OR:

    Hossa : 16.8 Mins Per GF 43 mins per GA
    St. Louis: 16.5 Mins per GF 16.5 mins per GA
    (even offense Hossa much better defensivley)

    Bolland; 25Mins Per GF 18 mins per GA (- 7 mins)
    Pyatt: 20 Mins Per GF 25 mins per GA (+ 5 mins)
    (Pyatt better offensively and defensively)

    @ Bonjovi; you wrote;

    Putting a lot of stock in these GA/TOI & GF/TOI stats in kind of like saying that by only pulling one bikini model every week, I’m doing worse than the dude who picks up three fat chicks in the same time period.

    These are “gateway stats”. The next logical step is to put these numbers in “context” with “strength of opposition” and “zone start” data, and those calculation all proove that Scotty Gomez should be the MVP.
    ****************************************************

    I love your analogy, but it does not apply here. It only takes scoring into account ………..not defense. There is no question that scoring three times is better (offensively) than scoring once, but at what cost?

    In hockey a goal is a goal the empty netters count just as much as the end to end rushes and deking the goalie. Illl take a guy who scores 20 ugly goals a season over a guy who gets 10 highlight reel goals per year, every time. Unless the guy who scores more is also allowing more than the one who scores less.

    There was linkto a post that rated the canadiens players performance in the playoffs this year and unbelievably they gave desharanais (+1) and Ryder (+0) worse rankings than Pleakanec – 5 and Gallagher (-7) Why?
    DD and Ryder were both on for 2 goal at even strength and Plek and Gally each on for only one GF. The big difference though was on defense. DD was on for 1 GA, Ryder- 2 GA, Plekanec 6 and Gally 8 ..

    The numbers tell the story, for those that care to look.

    regards,

    Steve O.

  3. mark-ID says:

    new thread

    “I think I may have found a way for us to get Griffey and Bonds, and we really won’t have to give up much” -Costanza

  4. frontenac1 says:

    @timo. Torres? Uh-oh.Hit the deck amigo!

    • Sean Bonjovi says:

      Raffi Torres? I’m all for picking whatever Mexicans we can get our hands on, but I think Raffi Torres would be awful in Montreal. The refs and the League already have a hate-on for him and if he ever played for the Canadiens he’d never see the ice. It’s same reason we could never get Alex Burrows.

  5. mark-ID says:

    Mentioned it yesterday, and a poster jumped allllll over me….I see some of you are repeating it today.

    I said Moen + Weber for Matt Martin

    Truth be told Martin and Moen are much of the same player. Moen is obviously older, and has an extra $900,000 salary/year for the next three years. At the same time Moen has more experience, and he has shown a little bit more scoring capability then Martin at this point. Martin is bigger and hits the most in the league. Also fights more.

    Plus they would get a project in Weber. Look how the last defenceman from Switzerland turned out for them. It would maybe actually be a trade they would entertain.

    “I think I may have found a way for us to get Griffey and Bonds, and we really won’t have to give up much” -Costanza

    • jols101 says:

      I would love Matt Martin. So would 29 other GM’s in the NHL. I can’t see the Isles moving him. He is young, big, tough, physical and has enough talent to play 12-15 minutes a night. He is every GM’s dream. Not going anywhere in my opinion but crazier things have happened.

  6. Todays - Topic says:

    If The Sharks can beat LA tonight that’s a BIG if. They have a pretty good chance of going all the way. I don’t see a team left any tougher than LA.

  7. HabFab says:

    Re Chris’s draft choices earlier;

    I want 3 big physical defensemen.
    I want 3 big power forwards.
    I want at least 2 to be francophone.

  8. HabFab says:

    Stubbs via twitter

    On June 5th, 2013, the Montréal Canadiens will be evaluating more then 57 players who have been selected to participate to its 2013 Combine activity.

    For the occasion, the Bell Sports Complex will be open to the general public with free admission to the public concourse only. As per regular season training sessions, the stands will be closed.
    Welcome to all.

  9. punkster says:

    Strange crowd…screams for MOAR BIG yet 14% still want the smallest of the top 3 picks and only 25% want the biggest one.

    ***SUBBANGIN’ NOW BABY!!!***

    • YOWHab says:

      IMO none of theese picks could be considered big, Jones by all indications is 6,4 but plays like a little girl.

      • jols101 says:

        Jones = Jay Boumeester (sp) 2.0 with a little more offensive upside. Too bad he has absolutely no Chris Pronger in him. It’s a shame. If he had some nasty, he would be the total package.

  10. Fransaskois says:

    How good is Drouin going to be?

    All-Star?
    90pts+?
    Better than Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Huberdeau, Hall, Seguin?

  11. Lafleurguy says:

    HabinBurlington paid you gentlemen and seven ladies a huge compliment a while ago, and he made an astute observation that the unpenalized physical aspect of the game has increased noticeably. So, I want to put you to the test: Who is the smallest player to get suspended for an illegal head-shot?

    “May you live in interesting times.”

  12. jols101 says:

    @Bill, Re: Beaulieu

    Bill, someone below posted Beaulieu’s height at 6’1 and I have seen other sites post his height at 6’3. In the few games he played for the Habs this past season he looked closer to 6’3 to me.

    You have seen him play a lot, what do you think?

    • Maritime Ron says:

      Habs official web site has him at 6’1″-182, but who knows when those height/weight stats were done. I guess we’ll find out more in September. He could still grow as he only turns 21 in December

      • Maritime Ron says:

        …then the official AHL website showing Hamilton has him at 6’2″-194

        • jols101 says:

          Well, he was definitely taller than Gorges or Galchenyuk who are both listed at 6’1. I think he is 6’2 or a shade taller. Which means he should be comfortable at about 215 lbs when he fully develops.

  13. Lafleurguy says:

    A couple of those first overall guys play in Tampa Bay. Plus a second overall in Victor Hedman. Then they stole a Hart trophy winner from Calgary, Martin St. Louis. Need anyone be reminded how that team finished? We need a trade to build depth, gentlemen and seven ladies.

    I was surprised to find out that David Clarkson is only 6’1″, 200lbs. Slightly bigger than Brandon Prust. Unfortunately, not only have the Devils been winning more Cups than us recently, they have out-David us in free agent signings. (with apologies to no. 51)

    “May you live in interesting times.”

  14. SteverenO says:

    @ Cal .. you wrote;
    *********************************************
    Diaz is best Hab D for PK. Must be crack in those numbers of yours, really. Diaz? You serious?
    ********************************************

    Yes I am serious, and what I smoke, or don’t smoke, is hardly relevant. The numbers are relevant, and what I said is that Diaz was the most efficient penalty killer BY FAR in the previous season 2011-2012 here are the numbers:

    Yannick Weber ; One PP goal allowed every 9 minutes of ice time
    Alexei emelin One PP goal allowed every 9 minutes of ice time
    Josh Gorges; One PP goal allowed every 14 minutes of ice time
    Hal Gill: One PP goal allowed every 15 minutes of ice time
    PK Subban; One PP goal allowed every 18 minutes of ice time

    Raphael Diaz; One PP goal allowed every 40 minutes of ice time

    Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

    regards,

    Steve O.

    (this past season our Pk was crappy across the board with all the d-man averaging approximately one goal against every 7 to 8 minutes. Emelin was the exception and was slightly better than the others averaging 10 minutes of PK TOI per goal allowed)

  15. YOWHab says:

    What do you think the asking price would be for Matt Martin??

    He would do great on this team.

    • Habfan17 says:

      Not sure but I wouldn’t mind if Bergevin could trade Weber and DD to the Islanders for Nino Niederreiter. Throw in Holland for the Islanders 2nd round pick

      Habfan17

      • Bill says:

        Man, you are always trading Weber and DD for someone, haha. It’s funny how you think that two players you think are crap are still valuable in a trade.

        Full Breezer 4 Life

        • Habfan17 says:

          I don’t think they are crap! I just don’t feel they fit into what the Habs need. I think once Weber is given a chance, he will be pretty good, probably better than Gorges. The Habs have too many centres and I believe Galchenyuk should be the 3rd line centre, and since no one likes it when I say that now is a great time to trade Pleks, I am throwing DD in. I also think Holland will be a solid 3rd line right wing, however, the Habs are stocked on right wing so they can afford to move him for a left wing, which they lack. On the island, DD would move down to the 2nd or 3rd line.

          Habfan17

          • habs_54321 says:

            can never have to many centers look at the bruins they have 6 centers in their top 9 and it works out well because in event of an injury ie bergeron or krecji they can easily move one of peverley, seguin, marchand to the center position to replace that player. also not to mention a backup center in the event of the starter center being tossed from the faceoff.

          • Habfan17 says:

            @ habs54321 I agree and the Habs have decent depth at centre too, Leblanc, Bournival, Naatinen, Eller, Galchenyuk, and Pleks.

            Habfan17

        • Habfan17 says:

          By the way Bill, both Holland and Neiderreiter have the rank of 7C as a probability of making the NHl on Hockey’s future. Are you telling me the with Weber and DD included, this would not be fair?

          Habfan17

      • YOWHab says:

        I would agree to that trade in a heartbeat.

        NN= upside
        DD=no upside at all
        Weber=WHO??

      • habs_54321 says:

        replace weber with diaz and they might think about it

    • Bill says:

      Martin is nothing special. He’s serviceable enough that the Islanders probably keep him around to bang bodies, so they wouldn’t take a scrub for him or anything, but he’s not good enough to warrant offering an actually decent player for.

      Full Breezer 4 Life

  16. 24 Cups says:

    I just watched the Patrick Roy press conference and he didn’t mention Greg Sherman’s name once. It was all about Joe (Sakic) and Josh (Kroenke, the owner’s son). Joe and Josh, my two, new best buds. Everybody is on board the Roy Train except poor old Sherman.
    I only bring up this point seeing that Sherman is the only guy out of the four with any real NHL management experience.

    I can’t somehow feel that the Habs dodged a major bullet on this one.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Nepotism by any other name would smell as foul – Shakenspeare

      “May you live in interesting times.”

    • Timo says:

      This whole hiring stunk of old boy’s club mentality.

    • Maritime Ron says:

      That was weird.
      The funniest answer Roy gave was stating he would have accepted the coaching job only…..and he said it with a straight face.
      If I didn’t know better, it looked like Patrick was running the show…..and that’s why he was a no go for the Habs

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I am very happy he is getting his start at NHL Coaching in another market. The fact Joe did not take on the role of President and GM, seems to tell me that he is keeping Sherman around to be one of his next scapegoats. He will outlast Roy as well, given the hierarchy, but Joe best be careful.

  17. Timo says:

    I would like to see a thread between SteverenO, Chris and UCE. That would be epic.

  18. Bill says:

    @Myron: watched Beaulieu a lot in junior and he definitely has a physical element to his game. Cannot be compared to Diaz that way. He needs to grow and fill out and he will. But he can be nasty and definitely can be a good guy in front the crease, in addition to having great skills.

  19. Bripro says:

    Patrick Roy’s new conference is on, right now.

    http://www.tsn.ca/live/player.aspx#v=887581&i=887581

  20. Bripro says:

    I hear mayor Ford was in N.Y. today, meeting with Butthead and Daddy Campbell.
    I wonder if they’re planning their new NHL honesty policy.
    I’m sure they’ve given Ford a crack at it.

  21. Bripro says:

    Travis Moen as a neurosurgeon?
    God forbid my nerves ever become that frayed…

  22. Bill says:

    Adamkennelly: can you tell me why you would trade a guy(Subban) who if his draft were done over would probably be taken first, plus a good prospect like Kristo to swap picks with TB AND we have to take VInny?

    That is one hell of a lot to move up. TBay would sign that deal immediately and pinch themselves to make sure they weren’t dreaming.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      It reminds me of another trade we once made…..

    • adamkennelly says:

      I agree with you Bill – didn’t say I would do it – just suggested what it would take to get a hold of a top 3 pick in this draft for the Habs…only way I see TB considering moving the pick – is for money – i.e. going the other way. beauty of a high pick is your don’t have to pay them for a while.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      And Steve Yzerman can exclaim, “In your face, Neil Smith, once you hook a big one, this is how you reel ‘em in.”

      “May you live in interesting times.”

    • Habfan17 says:

      I would much rather that Bergevin move out some players that don’t fit in his plans, for extra picks in this draft, and keep the ones he already has. There seems to be a lot of the type of players the Habs need to add to the prospect pool

      Habfan17

  23. YOWHab says:

    Will Carrier is a guy who probably will go in the first round and who I think is worth at least a look.

    One guy that I’ve heard him compared to is Dustin Brown (which is awesome), COMMANDANT had some good things to say about him as well.

  24. YOWHab says:

    I’m really liking this Mike McCarrrion kid, big tough guy with talent, we need that.

    He’s obviously not wortha a first round pick, but if he was available in the second round I would be all for getting him.

  25. Habitoba says:

    Just because I’m bored:

    Trade Price for decent return (perhaps a big, physical D and a prospect/picks) and throw everything we’ve got at Lundqvist.

    Thoughts?

    • Cal says:

      Think Lundqvist could stop everything we’ve got? I think so, too. :)

    • YOWHab says:

      utter lunacy

      NYR would never give up Lundqvist, he is a huge part of their team.

      Unless we offer them Galchenyuk/Subban, and that’s not happening.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      How can Price get us anything in return given he sucks and is over paid though? I don’t understand.

      • Maritime Ron says:

        I was never in the ‘Trade Price’ gang yet what would be really interesting to know is this:
        1) Several teams have good goalies they trust and several teams have no more Cap Room to spend in the goalie area. Which teams would be willing to take a risk on Price and more importantly, the remaining 5 years of a $6.5M Cap Hit.
        2) If we could find a trade partner, what would come back in terms of assets
        *3) Then what? We need a starting goalie. Who is out there and at what cost?

        No. Be it by choice or circumstance, we really don’t have any alternatives to Price at this point in time

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Hey Ron, appreciate and understand your sentiments. My issue is simple, since BG took over and went the route of quicker skill players, (which appears to have coincided with smaller players) the league has shifted back to a much more physical game. Less and less is being called, physical grinding is becoming a premium again. In these years we have not had a team that truly competes in that are of the game. We have seen some very good years from Price, we have seen good games from Price in years when overall his play appears to have suffered.

          But to me we have far bigger issues to solve than our goalie, and perhaps once those are solved we discover we had the right goalie.

          I do realize the creative posters who like to post “Price Sucks” won’t like this, but that really is no skin off my back.

          • Maritime Ron says:

            Totally agree about the other issues being more of a priority at this point. Here’s hoping that Carey’s performance in the next 2 key years makes that a non-issue

        • The Dude says:

          How bout Vinny and Bishop for Price?

          • Maritime Ron says:

            Vinnie’s contract would kill us + the new cap “Recovery”penalty rules for those type of contracts if the player retires before the end

      • Timo says:

        Because we are the only ones that know it. There rest of the hockey world thinks he is god.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          But I thought the rest of the hockey world was always smarter than everything the Habs do. I am getting lost in this dog chasing tail mystery Timo.

          • ont fan says:

            I’ve stated it before, Lundqvist stood on his head and it wasn’t enough. 4 big D men, not enough. Snipers and last minute trades, not enough. Just another 2nd round exit. Better get some team chemistry within.

    • Maritime Ron says:

      Lundqvist is a Summer 2014 potential UFA-not this summer.

  26. Maritime Ron says:

    From NBC Sports 3 days ago

    Oilers ‘very amenable’ to trading seventh overall pic

    Oilers general manager Craig MacTavish is actively shopping his team’s seventh overall draft pick.

    “We’ve talked to a number of teams about that seventh pick and moving that pick in either direction,”

    “If we do move that pick back and get an asset that we feel can come in and help the current group, we’d be more than happy to have any of those discussions, and have had many of those discussions with a lot of the managers at this point.

    Hmmm…….

  27. SteverenO says:

    re Diaz;

    In terms of defensive abilities Diaz is , in my opinion, a “keeper”.

    In 2011-2012 he led the top penalty killing unit in the NHL in efficiency , with numbers superior to Gill, Gorges, and Subban.

    This past season he led the team in even strength defensive numbers having been on the ice for an average of one goal against every 38 minutes;

    here is the list of the other d-men for comparison purposes:

    Diaz – one GA per 38 Minutes Even strength TOI
    Drewiske – one GA per 32 Minutes (includes Kings and HABS)
    Subban – one GA per 29 Minutes Even strength TOI
    Gorges – one GA per 27 Minutes Even strength TOI
    Emelin – one GA per 26 Minutes Even strength TOI
    Boullion – one GA per 23 Minutes Even strength TOI
    Markov – one GA per 21 Minutes Even strength TOI

    below are players with minimal ice time and the numbers /sample size is too small to be indicative

    Tinordi – one GA per 43 Minutes Even strength TOI ** TOT 86 mins
    Weber – one GA per 35 Minutes Even strength TOI** TOT 70 mins
    Patteryn – one GA per 29 Minutes Even strength TOI **TOT 29 min
    Kaberle: – one GA per 28 Minutes Even strength TOI ** 111 mins
    Beaulieu one GA per 26 Minutes Even strength TOI ** TOT 78 min

    Despite his lack of size and physical play, the team was not scored against as often when Diaz was on the ice as they were when he was not.

    To express it on another way; Overall the team allowed one even strength goal every 27 minutes . When Diaz was on the ice the allowed one goal every 38 minutes, when Diaz was NOT in the ice they allowed one goal every 26 minutes. (the team performed much better defensively when Diaz was on the ice)

    compare to MArkov when on the ice (even strength) one goal allowed every 21 minutes. when Markov NOT on the ice one goal scored against every 32 minutes. (the team performed much better defensively when Markov was NOT on the ice) .

    We can also conclude from the above statistics that the team would have done better had Diaz played more minutes and Markov played less.

    regards,

    Steve O.

    • Chris says:

      You routinely abuse that particularly statistic.

      We can NOT conclude that the team would have done better had Diaz played more minutes and Markov played less. Markov was playing tired minutes against Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin and Stamkos.

      Diaz was typically on for the second wave of the penalty kill, with Markov and Emelin taking the first wave duties. Your odds of getting scored against go down significantly when the superstars are no longer on the ice.

      Markov was overplayed. No question. But there are no guarantees that putting anybody else out there in his shoes would have represented an upgrade. That isn’t how statistics work. They tell you how a guy performed in the situation he was played in, but you still have to perform a critical analysis that factors those numbers in with unmeasurable quantitites.

      Were it me, I would have played Subban and Gorges against the first wave, and then played Emelin and Markov against the second wave. In my perfect world, Emelin is moved back to his natural left side to play with Diaz (I think that would be a strong pairing) because the Habs had found a strong, veteran stay-at-home right defenceman to play with Markov.

      But that wasn’t last year’s reality, and asking Emelin to play LD on the PK and RD the rest of the time (or vice versa with Diaz, if you want him to replace Markov) is a recipe for disaster.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I was talking about this very thing with a buddy of mine last night as we watched the Hawks game. Chicago stacks their #1 D Pair (Keith and Seabrook) and play them almost 30 minutes a night. This allows the 2nd and 3rd pairing to be fresher all night. Essentially to maximize what talents those weaker pairings have.

        In total agreement with you Chris, numbers do not extrapolate straight across by changing ice time minutes.

      • ebk says:

        personally, I’m not a big fan of the Gorges/Subban pairing. What I’d like to see is Emelin and Subban, Gorges and Tinordi and the Habs find a RH D man to play with Markov.

        If Bergevin was to get creative, I’d like a top pair LH D-man to play with Subban, ala Suter and Weber.

    • ihabto says:

      Do you think teams would be better off if there was simply a computer behind the bench that calculated all of your stats and simply displayed the numbers of the players whose turn it was to go on the ice? Or do you think maybe there is more to it than that?

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Don’t take this the wrong way Steve, but I get a sneaky suspicion you work in the Actuarial field. :)

    • Cal says:

      Diaz is best Hab D for PK. Must be crack in those numbers of yours, really. Diaz? You serious? :roll:

      • Phil C says:

        He probably isn’t in the best option as the stats suggest, but those stats do suggest that Diaz is effective in the role he is being used. This doesn’t surprise me at all because playing on the PK suits the strengths of Diaz’s game. He is very good positionally, he anticipates the play very well, and he has an active stick, all very valuable attributes in a penalty killer. His biggest weakness is his lack of size and physical play, which again, is not exploited in a PK situation as most teams carry and control the puck on the PP rather than the dump, chase, and cycle pattern of 5-on-5 hockey.

        In short, killing penalties plays to Diaz’s strengths and tends to not exploit his weaknesses, therefore he is effective in that role, as the stats suggest.

        • Cal says:

          Hate to say it, but Diaz standing around trying not to be bowled over is not an effective PK player. He was put in due to no other viable choices.

          • Phil C says:

            I get it, you don’t like Diaz, that’s fair.

            The stats don’t prove that he is their best PKer, but they are clear evidence that he was effective in the role in which he was used.
            I personally like Diaz quite a bit.

        • ebk says:

          Agree, he isn’t the best option but he certainly is in the top 4 options on this current version of the Habs. He was really good pre-injury and post-injury, he was still one of the better Habs defenseman.

    • GrosBill says:

      I know you take heat at times with your stats. Though I disagree with your conclusion based on them at times, I do enjoy reading them and appreciate the time you take to post them.

    • Habfan17 says:

      That still does not take into account, the Habs have too many of this type of defencemen and not enough of the defensive net clearing kind. Subban and Markov can put up points, and if their ice time was balanced and Suban was paired with a defensive crease clearing partner, the numbers would be different. I would still move Diaz and Gorges. Beaulieu is bigger and more skilled than either of them. Tiinordi should be better and they can bring in one UFA if need be.

      Habfan17

      • myron.selby says:

        Beaulieu – 6’1″ 182 lb
        Diaz – 5’11″ 197 lb
        Gorges – 6’1″ 203 lb

        I loved Beaulieu’s play, but he sure didn’t have any physical side to his game that I saw. As you can see Diaz outweighs him by 15 lb and Gorges by 21. If you’re expecting NB to come in and clear creases I think you’ll be sadly disappointed.

        If anything, I’d say his game is very similar to Diaz’s, although he is a much better skater.

        • Habfan17 says:

          I agree with you, Beaulieu can skate much better and I think has more natural ability and skill. Diaz is 26 and Beaulieu is 19 and from the numbers I saw Beaulieu is either 6’2″ or 6″3″ now. He should fill out.
          One other thing that mystifies me, how did Gorges who was always listed at 6′ now at his age suddenly an inch taller. I know it isn’t you, somewhere in the media, they changed this. Then with Patches, I read he was up to 115 lbs with his workout lst summer and they still list him lower than that.

          Habfan17

    • bwoar says:

      Love your enthusiasm, cringe at your overuse of GF/A per minutes played.

      “thoroughbred”

    • Sean Bonjovi says:

      Putting a lot of stock in these GA/TOI & GF/TOI stats in kind of like saying that by only pulling one bikini model every week, I’m doing worse than the dude who picks up three fat chicks in the same time period.

      These are “gateway stats”. The next logical step is to put these numbers in “context” with “strength of opposition” and “zone start” data, and those calculation all proove that Scotty Gomez should be the MVP.

  28. HabinBurlington says:

    Once again reading through the thread one realizes that there is a ton of smart hockey people on this board. I often look for other teams equivalent websites of HI/O (Particularly when their team is playing the Habs) and have yet to run across a site with as much knowledge as I see here. Granted I don’t spend that much time on them, but anyways, kudos to everyone, even if we never agree it adds to the dynamic.

  29. frontenac1 says:

    @habfan10912. Can’t remember if it was the Montreal Star or Gazette but each Saturday they had a full page picture of a different Hab. My wall was covered. Saludos!

    • Ron says:

      As I mentioned to Jim down below that was the only place for us kids in New Brunswick to get ours. It was The Star Weekly here. Money was tight here in the late 40′s and early 50′s so posters were not something we had money for. Heck I remember even sending away coupons from cereal boxes to get them. Tough times but very good times family wise.

      • SteverenO says:

        @ Habsinburl…. I would not be offended of I were in the actuarial field, but in fact I am not.
        @ ihabto; Their is no need for a computer behind the bench . The time to look the stats is between games. When you have one player that is on the ice for a goal against every 21 minutes (Markov) and another who is on for a goal every 38 minutes (Diaz) and there is very little difference between their relative effectiveness offensively at even strength you don,t need a computer to tell you which one should be playing more minutes, you only need a brain.

        @ Chris ; I get your argument about quality of opposition, but there are limits to that argument. If the so called “star” player is putting up bad numbers while the lesser play is putting up good numbers ,you have to start wondering why the lesser play is NOT playing against the better quality opponents. It does not make sense to keep using the same guy who is NOT getting the desired results when there are others who , at least , deserve a chance.

        You say that I am “abusing” the statistics when the whole point is to demonstrate exactly what the statistic measure; how many goals are scored while a particular player is on the ice compared to his teammates in the same situation?

        I am having trouble understanding why you ,and others, take offense to my highlighting these statistics.

        If two players had similar numbers you could make a sensible argument that the one who played against better opponents is in fact the superior player. When the numbers are so widely different that same argument does not hold water.

        In a normal situation (with an intelligent coach) he would not continue playing the “perceived” better player if the results were not there. In other words, the aging (injured, tired) superstar would start to see his minutes diminish when it became apparent that he could no longer keep up.
        The numbers CLEARLY show that Markov performance was NOT keeping up, The problem ,and my whole point, is that despite OVERWHELMING evidence the coach did NOT adjust the minutes accordingly which ended up costing the team the opportunity to coast into the division lead and rest their players so that they would be able to perform better in the playoffs.

        Please explain to me why there is any controversy about that.

        you yourself wrote;
        *************************************************
        Markov was overplayed. No question. But there are no guarantees that putting anybody else out there in his shoes would have represented an upgrade. That isn’t how statistics work. They tell you how a guy performed in the situation he was played in, but you still have to perform a critical analysis that factors those numbers in with unmeasurable quantitites.
        ***************************************************
        Yes, you can say that there are no guarantees that another player would have done better in the same situation, which is technically correct, but the numbers indicate that all of the other players DID do better in the situations they were given. I can,t think of any reason why that would have changed had they played more minutes. Again, there is no way to know for certain but I would be shocked of Markov,s numbers would not have improved significanlty had he played less minutes, and dressed for 42 games instead of all 48 .

        As far as factoring in the numbers with “unmeasurable” qualities, I don’t quite get the point; Are you claiming that a coach (in this case Therrien) has some mystical ability to assess each players performance and uses that magical ability to properly dole out the playing time in the most optimal manner?

        If you think that is the case I say “hogwash” to that. There is not even the slightest possibility that Therrien ( and 90% of the other coaches ) can do a better job of assessing a player’s performance than the actual statistics indicate.

        I am not claiming that the statistics are a 100% accurate measure of performance in every case, but I AM saying that they are a far better indicator of performance than basing a players relative performance solely on the amount of ice time Therrien deemed he should play.

        I don;t follow other teams so closely, but I would think that on most teams the better performers play more minutes and play more frequently against the opponents best players. I doubt very highly if we would discover even one other team where the defencemen who was on for the most goals per minute of ice time at even strength was also the defencemen who played the highest average number of minutes per game.

        when I have some free time , I will check it out.

        regards,

        Steve O.

        regards,

        Steve O.

  30. commandant says:

    On Shane Churla.

    When a guy is simply a “scout” as he was for the Stars and not a head guy, its impossible to know what picks were his and which ones werent.

    That said, the Stars have had some great drafts since 2005 (crappy GMing, see James Neal, and not trading Brad Richards, and other moves), but great drafts.

    Last year I said they had the second best draft behind Montreal in my post draft wrap-up.

    In previous years have gotten the aforementioned Neal, plus Matt Niskanen in 2005, stole Jamie Benn in 2007, made nice picks with Jack Campbell, Brett Ritchie and others.

    Go Habs Go!
    Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  31. frontenac1 says:

    @AH. Here’s hoping amigo!

  32. commandant says:

    @lafleurguy

    I apologize for earlier. What I wrote came off much harsher than I intended it to. Sorry about that.

    Go Habs Go!
    Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  33. Steeltown Hab says:

    If he’s still there in the 3rd round…Bogdan Yakimov

    ———————————

    Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Emelin – @J_Perez22

  34. START SAVING NOW, THE 2013 SUMMIT IS COMING THIS FALL

    Shane Oliver
    Twitter @Sholi2000
    http://www.Sholi2000.com
    Custom Sports Figures
    Summit Member 00029.31

  35. Chris says:

    Here’s my highly scientific and evidence-based mock draft, generated after literally seconds of watching videotape on the 1986 Montreal Canadiens because I missed watching Mats Naslund play:

    25ish: Some (hopefully larger) forward that might be able to score goals in 3-5 years
    30ish: Another forward that might be able to score goals in 3-5 years
    35ish: A forward that is big, strong and tough and could play in 3-5 years.
    50ish: A goaltender who can play in 4-5 years

    After that…your guess is as good as mine. :)

    But I want goal-scorers!

    • oops

      Shane Oliver
      Twitter @Sholi2000
      http://www.Sholi2000.com
      Custom Sports Figures
      Summit Member 00029.31

    • JF says:

      Yes. Big, tough power forwards who go to the net rather than snipers. And we must certainly draft a goaltender.

      • Chris says:

        With guys like Collberg, Kristo, and Bozon, the team seems to have some nice pure snipers with good shots at NHL careers. Bournival, Hudon and Leblanc give them three third-line types that aren’t going to be particularly physical but play good, two-way hockey.

        But they’ve got little to no grit, no power forwards and no net presence. They have to start addressing that, and then get some coaches in place to work with the forwards to make this more of a priority the way Detroit did with Holmstrom and Franzen, and the way they are now using Abdelkader.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      A goal scorer with size please. :)

      • Chris says:

        I would give a lot to draft Barkov or Nichushkin. I would draft either guy ahead of MacKinnon, Drouin or Jones if Montreal miraculously got a #1 pick, because they fill the biggest need and I think they are right there with the main 3 in terms of talent, upside and performance.

        The problem for the two Europeans is that they didn’t play in the CHL, so it is easy to overlook them. Barkov was phenomenal playing against men (not teenagers) this past season.

  36. AH says:

    Churla?, wasn’t he a major goon when he played? I guess MB must be serious about getting some beef and toughness; takes one to know one? LOL!

    • SmartDog says:

      Tough guy for sure. He took to the ice in his last scouting job to teach some players how to fight. Gotta like that!

      Bergevin is not going to bring in guys and not listen to them. Getting Churla suggests that he wants that tough-guy voice to be involved in his decisions. I like it.

      ————————————-
      Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  37. Rob says:

    haven’t been keeping totally up to date with what’s been posted here lately. Just wondering if the notion of, “what would the Habs have to give up in order to jump up to number 3 to draft Drouin?” has been floated about yet?

    I would imagine the answer would be quite a lot, but with a stockpile of picks at this draft and a number of good prospects I’m wondering if there’s anyone else thinking about the possibility of making a big move to draft a highly rated Quebec kid

    The Montreal Canadiens: sporting the best AND worst fans since 1909!

    • ont fan says:

      Just doesn’t happen very often .Lindros deal, but they gave away half a team of prospects and 1st round draft choices. . Top 3 teams may trade down a spot or 2 but hardly ever trade for any other deals.

      • Rob says:

        Agreed, but does the fact that it’s Tampa Bay, who is more in need of defence, open a SMALL window of opportunity for a franchise who has both a ton of defence prospects AND a desire to find the next Quebec star?

        The Montreal Canadiens: sporting the best AND worst fans since 1909!

        • commandant says:

          What you need to give up to get into the top 3

          1) P.K. Subban
          or
          2) Alex Galchenyuk

          The conversation starts (and ends from MBs perspective) with those guys.

          Go Habs Go!
          Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
          http://lastwordonsports.com/

          • Rob says:

            most likely i agree. But i wonder if you could tempt Tampa with a quantity of slightly lesser parts. Some combination from a list that includes: tinordi, beaulieu, pateryn, dietz, thrower, late first rounder (2013), three second round picks (2013) two third round picks (2013), any picks from 2014. I agree it’s far from likely, but i think you can make an offer than would force Tampa to listen. question is how much would it take, and what would you be willing to give up for a chance to get something that is uniquely important to a market like Montreal.

            The Montreal Canadiens: sporting the best AND worst fans since 1909!

          • adamkennelly says:

            assuming its TB – we’d have to take Vinny as part of the deal. If they make it about money – that could help.

            Subban + Kristo + 1st rounder 2013 for 2013 1st + Vinny.

          • Timo says:

            Carey Price

          • Luke says:

            I’d only include Vinny in a deal if he was to be a Compliance Buy Out immediately.

          • commandant says:

            agreed the problem with Vinny is that he has so many years left, owners are gonna have to think long and hard before buying him out. Its still a huge chunk of real money to a guy to not play for you.

            Go Habs Go!
            Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
            http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • habs_54321 says:

      forget moving up top ten we will get an excellent bag of goodies from were we are currently drafting.

    • Ron says:

      That brings back memories Jim. Being an old fart my brothers and I would only beable to get the center pin ups from the Star Weekly. Every Saturday here in New Brunswick we would go through it and any Habs were mine. The others fought over the rest. Being the spoiled youngest, Mom made sure I got them, haha. Although I got the Stan Makita one because of the jersey. Money was tight in the late 40′s early 50′s so buying them was not an option.

    • Cal says:

      No posters, Jim, but one of my brothers made a painting on his wall of the CH logo with the number 7 next to it. Directly below it was a painting of the hated gooins logo with the number 5 next to it.
      He did it the night after the Habs beat the Gooins 7 to 5 in the 1971 playoff. It stayed up for almost 15 years.

      http://calshabsongparodies.weebly.com

    • Bripro says:

      Miss April, 1974.

  38. Lafleurguy says:

    This post is not about Jaroslav Halak. Eight picks from the 9th round of the 2003 draft have played more than 100 games in the NHL. Included are Matt Moulson, Tanner Glass, and Brian Elliot. Except for Brendan Gallagher, we’ve been short on late round successes since the days of Sergei Kostitsyn and Matt D’Agostini. (I don’t think the draft goes 9 rounds anymore)

    “May you live in interesting times.”

  39. frontenac1 says:

    @Chris. Drunk ,yes. Affable? Not so much. Saludos !

  40. frontenac1 says:

    Big Bird working his Magic again down in San Jose?Now there is a coach for D men amigos!

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Good observo. But talent is also in play there. They were able to give up Murray who is playing big minutes in Penguinburgh (the “h” is correct).

      “May you live in interesting times.”

    • GrosBill says:

      I am not one to ever say BG should have done this or MB should have done (or JM, MT) that because what do I know. BUT, I had hoped the Habs would bring Robinson back as an assistant or defensive coach etc during the last two times they changed the faces behind the bench. He has had success behind the bench and is a Hab legend on the blueline. Last summer I was really hoping they would announce him as the new defensive coach…………Of course I am biased, see favorite player of all time…….

  41. frontenac1 says:

    Didn’t Gally play for the Vancouver Giants?

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Yup, that is indeed where he played his Junior.

      Gallagher’s dad is the strength and conditioning coach there also.

      • Lafleurguy says:

        Gallagher is a link to a past era when Serious Fan 09 (RR) would give excellent updates on him and other prospects. We sure knew a lot about the young man before he arrived thanks to Robert. Then again, I read waaay too much information on Maxim Trunev.

        “May you live in interesting times.”

        • HabinBurlington says:

          The kid I am trying to keep my eye on (through internet only) is Pribyl in Czech league. Size, skill, very interesting prospect. I hope he develops than what we saw happen to Avtsin, whom I think in hindsight, may have come to North America too soon in his development.

          • Lafleurguy says:

            Thanks for also bringing attention to Nichushkin who is #4 on the list that 24 Cups dug up. Ranked too high for the Habs to contend for but maybe a trade?

            “May you live in interesting times.”

          • B says:

            I believe that if they don’t sign Pribyl by the upcoming deadline (June 1st?) then he will be lost. I also recall reading that Pribyl is already signed for another season in the Czech league.

            –Go Habs Go!–

          • commandant says:

            Nygren was signed in Sweden too…. you can still sign him and loan him to the czech league, or work out a deal to buy out his contract.

            Assuming we are interested of course, which we should know by July 1st.

            UNLESS…. here is the issue, the new CBA gives teams 4 years to sign Euros instead of 2 years. The question is, does this rule apply to 2011 and 2012 picks, or just 2013 forward.

            Go Habs Go!
            Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
            http://lastwordonsports.com/

          • B says:

            commandant, thanks for the info. I am curious if it works both ways? Could say a KHL team sign a young player who still has a year to go on an NHL deal but loan that player to the NHL team for the year (or work out a deal to buy out his contract)?

            –Go Habs Go!–

          • commandant says:

            They could sign a player to deal that would start on July 1st 2014 for example. A Swiss club did this with Mayer (although Mayer is opting out of the deal now).

            They could loan a player to the NHL, but that would be contingent on what the loan rules each league has, and it hasn’t come up as an issue that I can remember so I’m not sure what each individual league might have as domestic loan rules.

            Buying out the contract is harder. They would have to pay the NHL team to buy out his contract, who would then have to do it during the buyout period prescribed by the CBA, and either use one of their amnesty buyouts, or take the cap hit prescribed by the CBA.

            Go Habs Go!
            Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
            http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • B says:

      Wasn’t that an oxymoron?

      –Go Habs Go!–

  42. frontenac1 says:

    My they should send Diaz down to Hamilton and teach him how to hit, go in the corners and what a suicide pass is.

    • Chris says:

      Or perhaps you should simply realize that he is not ever going to be that style of defenceman and that is perfectly okay.

      The onus isn’t on Raphael Diaz to become something he is not, but on Bergevin to find the right defencemen to play with Diaz to complement the skills that he does bring to the table.

      Every player on the ice throws suicide passes occasionally. Subban was yapping up a storm at Pacioretty in the playoffs for one, but Subban has been guilty of it himself as well. Anytime a defenceman tries a breakout pass, there is always a remote chance that the forward or the defenceman or both will miss a player closing in for a big hit.

      The fact that you are bellyaching about something that has now happened the grand total of once in Diaz’s 87 career games in the NHL is kind of ridiculous.

      You don’t like Diaz and Weber. The message was processed last season, long before you adopted this current “affable drunk” persona.

      • Lafleurguy says:

        Nice to read your analyses, bud. Fans that are most vocal usually don’t analyze scenarios intellectually. Diaz was a very successful player in the Swiss League, and I believe won a similar award to what Nygren won in Sweden this year. The bandwagon extolling Diaz’s play disbanded because of the knee he took in the head. He was not as effective upon return, and we’re not talking Karlsson here.

        “May you live in interesting times.”

        • Chris says:

          Diaz can be a very capable defenceman in the NHL. He’s smart, mobile, positionally strong (as evidenced by his ability to shut down shooting lanes) and he can move the puck.

          Unfortunately, he may just be a victim of a team that has too many of the same style of player.

          I find it frustrating that people can’t separate whether a player is the right fit for Montreal from whether a player is good enough for the NHL. For my money, Diaz has proven he belongs in this league. If Markov is dealt or not re-signed next season, Kaberle is bought out this summer and Beaulieu takes a while to develop, I think it would be highly foolish to deal Diaz, who would join Subban as the only guys who are capable point-men for the power play.

          Emelin, Tinordi, and Gorges are limited offensively. Most people are focussing on bringing in a big tough stay-at-home defender at the expense of Diaz. I’m all for the type of player, but I would rather see that player at the expense of Gorges personally.

          • Habfan10912 says:

            BINGO “may be a victim of a team that has too many of the same style player”.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Good stuff. Thx. I don’t foresee any roster players on this list for the Habs for next year. So, for improvement, either players under contract are going to get better, significant free agent signings happen, or a fairly huge trade happens.

      “May you live in interesting times.”

      • Chris says:

        Or the Habs take a step backwards before they can take their next leap forwards. I think this is the most likely scenario, even with some of the things you mention above happening.

        In particular, I think that the team WILL see some improvement from some of the younger players (particularly Eller, Galchenyuk, Tinordi, Pacioretty, Price and Desharnais). I don’t think we’ll see much more improvement from Subban (although better decision making is certainly a possibility) or Gallagher.

        I doubt we’ll see a big trade. I really suspect that a lot of GM’s see this season as a bit of a black hole in terms of player evaluation. Rink rust, condensed schedule, injuries, etc. combined to give a perhaps skewed outlook of what the teams are really capable of. There will be some salary cap casualties, but probably not any players that you can build around.

    • B says:

      #28 Michael McCarron RW 6’05″ 228lbs

      –Go Habs Go!–

      • commandant says:

        No Hands. No skills.

        Those who have been following my draft board will see I haven’t ranked him yet, despite the fact most other services have by the time we reach 47 (which i did today).

        If you want to draft Turner Stevenson the 2013 edition in the first round, you take this guy, but I want more than that.

        I just can’t support him as a pick. Next Tyler Biggs

        Go Habs Go!
        Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • Phil C says:

      Dos anyone have any insight as to why McKinnon is consistently ranked higher than Drouin? They are both about the same size. Drouin outplayed McKinnon at the World Jrs and outscored him this season.

      I wonder is it simply because Mckinnon is more well known as he has been on the radar for longer, like McDavid or Tavares. Or does McKinnon project to be a better NHLer?

      • commandant says:

        They are listed at the same size….. I highly doubt they actually are the same size.

        MacKinnon plays a bigger, more powerful, more physical game.

        That said I rated Drouin higher, but it was a coin flip of a call.

        To me MacKinnon is the very good, but not great first line centre in the NHL, and near a sure thing.

        Drouin could be a good 2nd liner, or a fantastic first liner. He has more upside, but more downside too.

        Go Habs Go!
        Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • New says:

        McKinnon projects better than Drouin. They don’t look the same size. When they play together they are deadly. Both are better younger than Jones was. You wouldn’t go wrong picking either or Barkov at 1,2 or 3.

        • Chris says:

          Sasha Barkov has GOT to be the most under-rated of those four. He put up 21 goals and 48 points in 53 games playing against men in the SM-Liiga this season as a 17 year old. Those are phenomenal numbers for a kid so young in a historically defensive league.

          Nathan MacKinnon gets a lot of credit for being a year younger than Jones but still putting up good offensive numbers on a stacked team.

          By that same logic, I’m constantly amazed that a potential power forward that is the same age as MacKinnon (one day younger) isn’t getting more love. If Barkov played in the CHL, I honestly think he would probably be the #1 prospect because of the size obsession of North American hockey fans. But he’s Finnish, so people overlook him through a lack of opportunities to watch him play.

          Barkov’s skating is the only real concern, but he’s learned how to deal with that already playing in a professional league. If I’m Bergevin and I have the choice between Drouin and Barkov, I’m taking Barkov.

          It is a moot point, because it is a pipe dream to think the Habs will have any shot at any of MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov or Nichushkin.

          For the record, I am not at all sold on Darnell Nurse. He will be an NHL player because of his size and familial connections, but I haven’t been that excited when I’ve seen him play. He’s looked quite ordinary.

  43. Timo says:

    Yaaawwwn. Michael Therrien is still the coach?

  44. 24 Cups says:

    Hard Habits mentions that the Habs need to draft a goalie. Zach Fucale is the top candidate who is projected to go anywhere from 20-30. Do the Habs use their 25th pick if he is available? Will he fall to 34th?

    Calgary picks 22th and 29th. Will they pass on Fucale? I can’t see them doing that. The Flames could easily come away with a centre (6th overall), Dman and goalie in the first round. It would at least be a start to a rebuild.

  45. RobertAlanFord says:

    That was fast!!!! Dalton Thrower traded to Vancouver Giants.

    @BBRhockey
    http://bleublancetrouge.ca/

  46. Todays - Topic says:

    Problem with Management. If a player has a good contract year they over pay him and than they’re stuck with him

    You can’t rate a player on one year. Rate him on consistency from his last contract and pay him accordingly.

    3-year contract max. Management won’t always be putting the team behind the eight ball.

    • bwoar says:

      You would create a worse problem in management with that mentality. 3 year max? Yeah, sure. And no doubt “we don’t negotiate during the season”, either?

      1) What about players breaking in having played 1.5 years, say?
      2) how does this take into account RFA / UFA years?

      Besides, do you really think management only looks at the previous year’s work to determine a contract going forward?

      I really, really, really hope this is not in reference to DD.

      “thoroughbred”

      • Todays - Topic says:

        Nothing to do with DD but if you really want to know the truth. I think he’s a little overpaid. He diffidently received a little more than he should have and I think most people on this site would agree.

        I’m just saying in general. Management at times over pay a player. Look no further than Brad Richards with The Rangers. He’s not worth that kind of money. Not for his performance this year for sure.

        What I’m saying. If I pay you 4-5 mil a year I want to see good consistency every year til that contract runs out or I’m not gonna reward a new and bigger one. Look what Gomez brought to the team. Set us back maybe 5-10 years That’s why management has to be careful when giving out the big contracts. I think The Rangers are the worst for that ….

        • bwoar says:

          The Rangers are the 2nd straight club to overpay for Richards, toio. I don’t disagree that management overpays for players, but that’s what free agency is really and truly for – it’s a salary inflator for the PA, and it works like gangbusters. Completely with you that it’s terrible when you don’t get consistent performance, but this is hockey, and that’s the gamble when you hand out contracts. The better managers make *less mistakes*, but every GM has a few boners on their roster.

          What’s even dumber though – Sather paid Gomez that contract and Gainey TRADED FOR IT. So that’s far worse that handing the guy the contract in the first place.

          As for DD, meh, I think 3.25M for a 50ish points guy isn’t bad. I would like to factor in Eller’s next potential contract here. Let’s say Eller gets 60 points next year. Time to cash in, right? 4M+ ? Well, wait a minute – a guy just had a 60pt season and got just 13M over 4 years. So can Eller reasonably expect more? Not much, if any. I think there’s a strategic part of DD’s contract in play a bit as far as team salary structure goes.

          One thing about contracts: sometimes a player can not play to expectations in one year, then come right on back and exceed them here and there. (See Cole, Erik of the previous year for an example.)

          “thoroughbred”

  47. mike3131 says:

    @rhino514

    I will tell you why goalies like Price and Fleury are 1st round picks. It is because they are the most TALENTED goalies in the NHL. You look at Fleury when he is hot – like when he won the Stanley Cup in 2009. Not only was he stopping everything, but he would make saves he had no business making thanks to his tremendous athleticism and flexibility.

    With Price it is because he has textbook technique. He has the ability to make every save look easy and because of his world class technique, he appears to have a chance on every goal he allows. Fleury also has excellent technique and efficiency with his movements, like Price. If you watch them doing goalie drills in practice you would notice that they excel, unlike not-as-talented goalies like Tim Thomas or Tomas Vokoun and even Craig Anderson. This is why Price and Fleury are such high draft picks – they are both a goalie coaches dream.

    The Problem as we’ve seen with Price is his team in front of him is allowing too much time and space, causing Price (and any other goalie would do the same for that matter) to over think and be prone to allow the weak goal. This would ultimately damage his short-term confidence, but I have faith in his ability to rebound. As for Fleury, while ultra-talented, I would say that it is entirely his mental aspect that kills him, like a young Carey Price in 2009. He still has difficulty rebounding, and the world seemingly falls apart on him when he allows a bad goal. As a result, he is streaky and very inconsistent despite his great talent.

    • bwoar says:

      Carey needs to learn not to try and over-compensate for his teammates’ inability to do anything useful while directly in front of him. It’s a bit of a paradox.

      “thoroughbred”

    • HabinBurlington says:

      When Fleury is hot, he is very good as you say. It is for that reason, that I wonder if Bylsma is even remotely considering giving him the start in game 1. The team is playing well, he has had lots of rest, and if by chance Fleury comes out hot, the Penguins are in an even better position. I know the simple or easy answer is continue with Vokoun, but I wouldn’t be shocked if Fleury starts game 1. When hot, he is better than an older/slower Vokoun. Also, less pressure on Fleury to start the series, than going to him if Vokoun has lost game and is playing poor in game 2.

    • New says:

      You are correct. When you look at where the shots come from with Price and where the most of the goals come from you get a bearing of 26 feet in the slot (inside third of the circles to 26 feet from the goal line). Tie up sticks in that area and you have a goalie legend. Quick and he are about the same in skill. The question would be if you flipped goalies with the D, or teams. Price is very, very, impressive. Scary impressive when you compare the competition. (somekindaninja.com super shot search)

  48. commandant says:

    #47 is a big, powerful, Russian sniper. With major KHL question marks.

    http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/05/28/anton-slepyshev-2013-nhl-draft-player-profile-47/

    Go Habs Go!
    Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • bwoar says:

      With 3 2nd rounders… hmmm I’d have to roll the dice & send over whatever persuasion got the job done.

      “thoroughbred”

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Given we added a Russian scout last year, I wouldn’t be surprised to see 1 or 2 drafted. Also, we have had pretty good success with Markov and Emelin. I think Montreal has a pretty good allure to Russian players versus American cities. (Speculation on my part)

        • commandant says:

          If he’s there at 55, I look at who else has fallen, and I agree with Bwoar, gotta seriously consider him.

          If he’s there for Dallas’ pick, I grab him no question.

          Go Habs Go!
          Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
          http://lastwordonsports.com/

          • Steeltown Hab says:

            I can’t comprehend how no one took Slepyshev with a 7th last year

            ———————————

            Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Emelin – @J_Perez22

      • Stevie.Ray says:

        PG somehow got Emelin over

  49. adamkennelly says:

    Bruins gave up their 1st round pick this year for Jagr. ouch.

    • Hobie Hansen says:

      I can’t believe there are posters here that want the Habs to sign Jagr to a 1-year-deal next season.

      • Lafleurguy says:

        Believe it. (I’m not one BTW)

      • adamkennelly says:

        same posters prolly want to give Kovalev another shot.

      • GrosBill says:

        He sure is SLOW. Turns the puck over all the time, he just does not have any legs anymore. Bruins fans I know (there are many in NS) have been hating that pick up, and I don’t blame them. He gets outworked along the boards all the time, and though he can still protect the puck alright, it is usually in vain since he has NO SPEED. He is also a little slow to pull the trigger on good hard passes these days.

        Are there really people here who want to see him on the habs next year?! Would much rather see the time given to a youngster. Jagr is done, loved him in his prime but those days are gone.

        The good news for us Hab fans is that Jagr pick up has now basically cost them their first with almost nothing to show for it.

        • Hobie Hansen says:

          Just like the people who have been jumping up and down, screaming that size and toughness isn’t the Habs problem the last couple years, the Jagr supporters are also real quiet these days.

        • New says:

          I don’t think Jagr is done but he can’t dominate on the third or fourth line or keep up with a first or second. But he’d be good for 50 points at age 42. The thing is the Habs can likely find someone who can keep up and get 50 points, they don’t need the extra attention for sales, and Jagr doesn’t really seem to have skills that can be taught, other than standing on 17 and always split 8′s.

          • GrosBill says:

            Ya I am sure some team may take a shot with him, but I do not see him getting 50+ points next year. He ran out of gas half way through this shortened season. I just do not see where he would go where they would even give him enough minutes to go 50 + again.

            Only way I see a team taking him is if they desperately needed help on the PP. But since that is basically what the Bruins were looking for, and he hasn’t panned out as the boost they were looking for, even that seems like a small chance to me. Plus, combine that with a cap going down, teams wrestling to fit into the cap, I would not be surprised if these playoffs are the last we see of him in the NHL. I had no idea how much he has slid. Even since his time in Phi, until now as a Bruin.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Nashville gave up a first for Paul Gaustad last year.

      “May you live in interesting times.”

  50. Lafleurguy says:

    Price is the third highest paid keeper behind Pekka Rinne, and Lundqvist. Quick’s bridge contract is about to run out but he played for 1.8mill this season. The six teams still playing have less salary committed to their goalies than the Habs (Fleury 5mill, Vokoun 2mill, Price 6.5mill, Budaj 1.1mill).

    “May you live in interesting times.”


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