McCarron shows soft hands in first rookie scrimmage

Michael McCarron showed there’s more to his game than size as he beat Zach Fucale on a penalty shot Saturday during the first scrimmage of the Canadiens’ rookie camp at the Bell Sports Complex.

McCarron, who is 6-foot-5 and 237 pounds, displayed quick hands as he beat Fucale. McCarron was selected in the first round of the draft in June, while Rosemere native Fucale was selected early in the second round.

But McCarron’s goal wasn’t enough as he and his White teammates dropped a 4-2 decision to Team Red.

Jeremy Gregoire, Christian Thomas, Tanner Eberle and defenceman Jonathan Narbonne scored for the winners, while Stephen MacAulay scored the other goal for Tram Wjite.

Gregoire was drafted in the sixth round in June, while Narbonne and Eberle are in camp on a tryout basis. Thomas was acquired from the Rangers in an off-season trade for Danny Kristo.

MacAuley, who was Fucale’s teammate with the Memorial Cup-champion Halifax Mooseheads, has an AHL contract.

McCarron’s penalty shot was the only puck that got behind Fucale as he made seven, but Peter Delmas, who is battling for one of the two goaltending spots in Hamilton was the busier Red goaltender, stopping 13 of 14 shots.

Michael Condon, a rookie from Princeton University, took the loss as he gave up three goals on 10 shots.

Rookie camp continues through Monday with scrimmages slated for Sunday and Monday at 11 a.m. They are open to the public

(Photo by Dario Ayala/The Gazette)

Parros and Prust Q&A, Canadiens.com

Pateryn is battle-tested, Canadiens.com

Flyers invite former Hab Gill to camp, NHL.com

Stan Bowman a chip off the old block, Stuonsports blog

305 Comments

  1. dsangdhw says:

    Hello, everybody, the good shoping place, the new season approaching, click in.
    ( w/w/w.sheptrade.c/o/m )
    (Discount Air jordan shoes) $36,
    (Air Max shoes) $35,
    (Nike shox shoes) $36,
    (Handbags) $39,
    (Sunglasses) $16,
    (wallet) $18,
    (Belt) $17,
    (T-shirts) $20,
    (Jeans) $37,
    (NFL/MLB/NBA)Jerseys $25,
    ( w/w/w.sheptrade.c/o/m )

  2. habstrinifan says:

    You do NOT have to read this if you are fed-up with my posting on this player.

    I feel he is being cheated by people ‘reporting’ from the camp’ Let’s look at this paragraph which I copied from Berkshire’s reports.

    “Michael Bournival showed his usual hustle, but he couldn’t get as much going as you would expect. By no means did he play poorly, but he was getting keyed on pretty well. He still had some nice plays on the boards though.”

    Any synopsis of Bournival’s on ice performance for almost any game would read as above. Especially “but he was getting keyed on pretty well”. Bournival is the type of player who is always in the nitty gritty tough action. Which is why I say he has made his linemates better in every phase of his career.

    That sort of appraisal is sellng him short becase he isnt spectacular while doing the things that define his game.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      One thing to remember is that because it’s a scrimmage and the contact is somewhat limited, a player like Michaël Bournival will be disadvantaged as opposed to a pure scorer or playmaker.

      In any event, there’s no need to get too keyed up on this. The report couldn’t say that everyone was great and amazing and awesome, some of these guys had to have an average day or weekend.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebHfMRw–sE

    • Chris says:

      Bournival is drafted. Now he’s got to work on getting to the NHL over the next few years. He will, or he won’t.

      Being “cheated” by a few fans’ report will have no impact on his ability to make the NHL. Nor will having you in his back pocket.

  3. Maritime Ronn says:

    Sorry HOI if it’s hard to take any report seriously about the Habs Rookie Camp.

    This is like reporting about a children’s birthday party.
    You may learn a tiny bit about the child’s character and how he handles himself, but the birthday party is child’s fantasy.

    All the children return to their real worlds when the candles are blown out, and then their work ethic and learning abilities will be judged both daily, and at later date while they grow up.

    Judging any birthday party kid with a colored hat singing a song – and trying to project where they will be or how they will turn out, is an almost complete waste of time – Feel good, yes, but nothing more.

    • Habitant in Surrey says:

      …I don’t know if I would classify Cheshire Cat as ‘a scout’ Frank, but it was done in a format that I wish ‘real’ and knowledgeable ‘scouts’ would use to describe what’s going down at Rookie Camp

      …wish Stu would have some of The Gazette’s writers, or contract a truly knowledgeable hockey person to provide same in The Gazette and HIO

      …really it baffles Me why The Gazette does not

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Scouts from what I know, either played at a fairly high level or coached at a fairly high level. I love hockey, I think I know a great deal about hockey, I am no scout. I am just a big Hab and Hockey fan with access to a computer.

        • Habitant in Surrey says:

          …love how Cheshire is selling himself as ‘a scout’ :)

          …and no one calling him on it

          …I don’t mind if his byline qualifies “I’ve never played the game, but I feel I know everything there is and ‘what it takes’ to be a hockey player, at least in my own mind”

          • twilighthours says:

            I don’t feel like he misrepresented himself there. It was just a write-up of what one fan saw. He’s the manager of a fan site. That’s alll.

            My only problem with that sort of report is that, I think, it is impossible to get a good read on so many guys at once. When I scout (and it’s not professional, by any means), I can only focus on 2 or 3 players.

            Maybe those guys are better at it. Who knows?

          • HabFab says:

            Mofo and Mike were with him also. Berkie is the scribe.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Nothing wrong with fan observations, I enjoy reading them it still provides more than what I knew before reading. But I know i went to lots of Bulldog games and practises and i still can’t pretend to be a scout is all. There are details to the game when looking at future developing players that i know i am not recognizing. When watching an NHL game it is somewhat easier to differentiate the calibre of player, as most have already developed close to their potential. Obviously some young players with incredible talent make the show sooner, and they still have much room to develop. But when watching a rookie camp, there are so many variables, players 18 vs. players 20 yrs old is a huge difference etc……

            For example, Dietz may have looked terrible at that camp, but he looked like a real stud with poise at the highest CHL level in the Memorial Cup last year. I wouldn’t put too much stock in how he looked one day at a rookie camp, nor am I saying EOTP did so either. Merely qualifying what I view as being that of a neophyte (myself) versus a bonafide scout.

          • Habitant in Surrey says:

            …I followed Frank’s link, read it with interest because I am so starved I will lap up anything about our future and prospects

            …just don’t call it a ‘scouting report’ …call it a ‘fanster report’

            …neither of the 3 are ‘scouts’ …they are ‘fans’

            …better to be honest about that …because there are ‘impressionable minds’ out there in Fanland :)

      • habstrinifan says:

        It was a nice read though. And I sense there was a very real effort on his part to not let ‘name’ recognition affect his analytical observations.

        What do you make of the following statements however?

        “Beaulieu could have been in the great category if he wanted to, but he was taking it easy a bit.”

        “Michael Bournival showed his usual hustle, but he couldn’t get as much going as you would expect. By no means did he play poorly, but he was getting keyed on pretty well. He still had some nice plays on the boards though.”

        Sounds to me like Bournival brought his respective game more fully than Beaulieu.

        While I do not think he completely succeeded in this aspect, I notice that he is not alone.. even when compared to ‘truly knowledgeable’ pros.

        Edit: Twilight’s response say s it better than I did. Even the pros tend to ‘focus’ on the the name or usual suspects.
        And yes I know I get my dander up over you know who…

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Interesting that Beaulieu must have admitted that he was taking it easy. :-)

        • Chris says:

          I think you might have missed Twilight’s point. He was not saying that the pro scouts focus on the name or usual suspects. He was saying that the scouts chart a couple of players per game, the ones that they came to the game to watch.

          If you go to a junior game and watch the scouts, they either have a laptop or a chart out and are often charting every single second of a player’s performance. You can’t do that and focus on anybody else that is on the ice with that guy.

          That being said, the scouts sometimes go to games just to see if anybody stands out as being worthy of a closer look. In that respect, the EotP summary is probably pretty similar to what one might expect.

  4. Maritime Ronn says:

    NFL vs. CFL

    CFL is a quickly played game with great Canadian talent coupled with Tier II American guys.
    The winner is decided by lessor mistakes, but the NFL is all about the best athletes and best coaches competing.

    I guess to each his own, and beauty is always in the eye of the beholder…and my CFL Hall of Fame good buddie who docked here at Pier 21 from Italy in the 1950′s would dispute that.
    Hint-Als….and he would have been a Star in the NFL with those huge hands and courage to catch passes crossing across the middle. :-)

    An NFL Game/Weekend is an event, and not just a game.
    The atmosphere is second to none.
    The tailgating is so much more than just a Bar B Q in the parking lot.
    It’s a chance for 2-3-4 generations of family or friends to ‘huddle-up’ for a weekend or 2, with only a max of 8 Home games + playoffs if lucky.

    Very humbly I mention, I will be in Green Bay-Lambeau Field next Sunday with my son to watch the Packers against RG III.
    Cheese is on the menu.

    • Habitant in Surrey says:

      …have loved Green Bay since a kid …but 4 down football is like watching paint dry

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        Surrey you can’t believe that the CFL is a better game/event?

        • HabFab says:

          It’s Christopher and don’t call him Shirley or Surly!

        • Habitant in Surrey says:

          …without a question the CFL rules is by a mile a better spectacle …the NFL by a mile better talent

          …combine the 2 and You have something special

          …as for ‘event’, the Americans do tail-gate like no one else

          …change the NFL rules to CFL rules, and they will have even more to party over :)

          • Maritime Ronn says:

            If only Roger Goodell would listen to you

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Wow, not sure I can agree the rules are a mile better. No doubt the rules of the CFL creates what should be an offensive exciting game. But watching a league where time after time players are allowed to be over a yard offside doesn’t strike me as a league with rules which are great.

            Would like to see the NFL allow a bit more motion, would also like to see the NFL field a bit larger to give the players more room. But the talent pool in the CFL has dropped off so much, that it is harder and harder for me to even compare them. I was a huge CFL fan growing up, but the given it is a Quarterback league (like the NFL) and the CFL has few if any real QB stars it is hard to judge the league anymore. I don’t enjoy writing this, but to me is a reality.

  5. Ice Storm says:

    Anyone else have big problems loading comments on an iPad? It seems its actually an iPhone app and tis driving me nuts!!!

  6. HabFab says:

    Theodore might have a job after all.

    Harvey Fialkov – Tallon said he will add veteran goalie. Clemmensen had arthroscopic knee surgery out 3 week.

    • habs11s says:

      Apparently his nickname is ‘Three-or-more’, I definitely got a good chuckle when I heard this…

      _____________________________________________________________

      “How would you like a job where when you made a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?” -Jacques Plante

  7. H.Upmann says:

    Just checked and surprised to learn that Erik Cole is 6’2 (a smurf) and not 6’4 ! Anyways, one thing I liked about Cole was his ability to drive to the net after a few strides. That’s what I’m hoping McCarron can develop. All in all, just hoping for the best for our rookies

  8. Loop_Garoo says:

    Oh, and in case you missed it, the Lions won… The Detoit Lions… Yes those Lions, they won, for real. This makes me happy.

    Greg

  9. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …Bears 24 Cincinnati 21 :)

    …Als 30 Argos 37 :(

  10. Loop_Garoo says:

    The biggest thing with prospects is there is one factor that is absolutely impossible to know. You can project playing weight, measure speed, reaction time, strength, goals etc etc. You can even learn a lot about a players character. The one thing you can never know is reaction to the speed of the game. Some players start to excel even more as the speed of the game increases to Ahl and Nhl levels, likely held back slightly by their linemates inability to read it as quickly. Some prospects look like gold, then suddenly they get their NHL chance, and their brain just cant process at that speed. Patches is a great example, besides his last 6 weeks in Hamilton, he is a better player at the NHL level than he ever was before, he just fits there.

    Greg

    • habs11s says:

      http://thehockeywriters.com/whatever-happened-corey-locke/

      Your second half argument with a form Bulldog/Hab

      Corey Locke

      AHL: GP:573 G:172 A:348 P:520 PPG: 0.92

      Great AHL stats but failed to crack the NHL with the Habs/Wild/Rangers

      _____________________________________________________________

      “How would you like a job where when you made a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?” -Jacques Plante

      • Loop_Garoo says:

        Exactly! Some on here will scream this was a size issue, but its not. Look at Brian Gionta, regardless of any criticism thrown his way, he is a very smart hockey player who reads and understands the game well. Gretzky is the ultimate example. Many other players with equal skills, but he simply played the game 2 steps ahead of everyone else.

        Greg

      • Chris says:

        Locke is a great example (as is new Canadiens farmhand Martin St. Pierre: 528 points in 518 career AHL games) of a player who can only produce if he can play on a scoring line. The AHL features many guys who are probably better hockey players than 50% of the third and fourth liners in the NHL.

        But playing those third/fourth line roles is not trivial. Locke cannot produce from the third line, but he’s not good enough to displace the first and second line players currently in the NHL. So he ends up as a high-scoring journeyman AHL player.

    • Chris says:

      That’s a good point. Increasingly, coaches in lower leagues are trying to move away from “rote” drills and are starting to institute some decision-making into the drill to try to get the players making decisions quickly.

      I’ve always maintained that hockey is largely a game of mistakes. You try to force your opponents into making them while also trying to avoid falling into their traps. This means you’ve always got to be planning ahead. I think some of these guys are just bored in lower hockey, because they think so much better than the rest of the guys on the ice.

      Stamkos never impressed me particularly as a junior. but an acquaintance who played against him in the OHL knows him well from playing in the same leagues since they were very young said he was simply bored in the OHL. He was going through the motions, knowing that he was going to go high in the draft.

      • Loop_Garoo says:

        I like your thinking of a game of mistakes. As far as the habs go, the 93 habs and even the team 3 years ago that went to the semi-finals are great examples. The 93 team was not the best in the league, but in the playoffs, simply made no mistakes, and when the other team did, they scored. (I know that Roy kid had something to do with it too, but again, made no mistakes)

        Greg

    • Habitant in Surrey says:

      …future Bobby Smith

    • Sportfan says:

      Tanner Eberle related to Jordan?

      Sports and Entertainment in the link click and enjoy, clicking is fun!
      http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/

    • twilighthours says:

      True story… Dalhousie university bases medical school acceptance on MCATs and interviews. The undergraduate degree is irrelevant. So anybody in university is “pre med”

      Maybe other universities are the same

      • Chris says:

        Pre-med is largely irrelevant. I know people with pretty much every degree under the sun getting into medical school, including a signficant number with physics, chemistry or even math degrees.

        So long as you take the prerequisite courses (some biology and anatomy courses, primarily), your degree is irrelevant.

        • twilighthours says:

          I don’t even think there are pre-requisite courses, at least at Dal. I know some docs with engineering, philosophy, music degrees.

          “Pre-med” sounds a little fluffy to me.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Glad we established this person is then not elite. ;-) wouldn’t want some dreg getting considered potential medical worthy.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Funny that he’d be into orthopedics, a friend of mine was steered/forced to go into that field because of his large size. His advisor told him big guys like him should be wielding hammers and saws in the operating theatre.

      Good writeup, love how he has a good working relationship with Patrice Brisebois, and looks up to Max. Great stuff.

    • habstrinifan says:

      I hope that Commandant, our draft/prospect guru, can recall when during the draft of that year, I asked him about Hudon and thought Habs should pick him. Lo and behold they did.

      I still feel very hesitant re his future, only because of his size, but I wish that somehow the NHL could make room for him.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Nepotism runs rampant in pro sports ownership. Alex Spanos installed his shiftless son Dean as the President of the San Diego Chargers, and he in turn has two sons working on the team, one of them as Director of Scouting. Any wonder the team has been going downhill since he’s been on board?

      These owner-pirates give themselves and their idiot offspring jobs and huge salaries, run the franchises like the misbegotten toys they are, but then insist that it is a community institution when it’s time for a new stadium to be built and they don’t exactly want to pay for it, just profit from its naming rights and skyboxes and such.

      I shudder to think just how badly the Karmanos son must have screwed up to be fired.

      • HabFab says:

        Statement from Peter Karmanos Jr. about Jason Karmanos: “This is a family matter. No further comment at this time.”

      • habstrinifan says:

        Maybe something unrelated to job performance? After all he was 15years on the job it says.

        Edit: Based on Habfab post above this does seem to be the case.

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          I’m not assuming that the screwing up was strictly limited to the professional arena. Even then, if the cause for termination was strictly performance based, and he wasn’t a member of the family, generally an employer can’t comment on the reasons, for fear of being sued for defamation, etc. In high-visibility positions such as coach or GM in pro sports, there is an acceptable precedent of commenting based on the team’s performance, but even then that practice is shifting. Note how little was said on the record regarding Pierre Gauthier and Brian Burke’s dismissals.

          So the comment that it’s a family matter is just an easy way to say no comment, but not necessarily a smart one. They could have simply stated that the company doesn’t comment on personnel matters.

          Imagine having a cushy job in a cool industry with a big salary and basically unlimited expense account and travel and lots of groupies and you’re basically unfireable since Daddy owns the team… and then you get fired.

  11. wjc says:

    Ladies and Gentlemen, start your computers….let the hype begin:

    1. Whiners need somewhere to whine.
    2. Complainers need somewhere to complain
    3. 2nd, 3rd, 4th guessers need somewhere to be heard.

    People who complain about the draft and the picks act like they know every player, when in truth you are lucky to see more then 7 on a consistent basis. Then they have the nerve to dispute picks.

    You need size and skill, you go for it and some genius thinks you should take a chance and wait, not knowing, but thinking they do, that the player could go next pick and be lost forever.

    Guarantees in the draft, no such thing, just play the percentages, hope the guy grows, doesn’t kill himself in some misadventure, develop a drinking/drug problem, kill someone, or blow a knee, get a concusion etc…you fill in the blanks.

    Set up lines before training camp as if everything is written in stone.

    Pretend they want to build a winner in Montreal, then expect it over night. It has taken 3 G.M’s (Gainey, Gautier, and Bergevin) to build this young and exciting team that is about to explode on the hockey world….a contender for years to come.

    Trade Price some said, keep Halak. How wrong they were.

    A chance to be negative, knowing that they can’t help but be right because the guys in charge are bound to err, it is human.

    Hate the coach, the G.M. some of the players and never admit when you are proven wrong. What a nice safe world psuedo experts live in.

    wjc

  12. Chris says:

    Something that has always interested me (and isn’t so easy to find, sadly) is how big NHL players were in their draft year. It is always interesting to see who bulked up and who didn’t. In some cases, I think the NHL size obsession might have been harmful to the player’s development. Andrei Kostitsyn lost a bit of the explosive acceleration and top-end speed that made him such a tantalizing prospect in the 2003 draft by bulking up 25 pounds on his 6’0″ frame. He ended up hitting like a truck, but I still believe that his loss of speed was a detriment to him as a player (although his work ethic was a bigger detriment). The biggest gainer? Maxim Lapierre, who added 33 pounds to his 174 pound draft weight, followed by Alexei Emelin, at 32 pounds. For Emelin, that was the 2011-12 number, and I think he was playing closer to 210-215 last season. Also notable for bulking up are Bennett (25 pounds), O’Byrne (24 pounds) and Maxwell (23 pounds).

    Another thing that jumps out: Montreal is often criticized for drafting smurfs when they should be drafting size. When I look through the Montreal’s picks in the first three rounds, the guys who you expect to have a decent shot of making the NHL, there is actually plenty of size. But as Jane pointed out earlier, Montreal threw a lot of those players away or they didn’t quite pan out the way we had all hoped when they were drafted.

    A common refrain this summer (and I was guilty of it too) was questioning whether McCarron or Crisp were Timmins picks, or whether he was overridden by Bergevin. Looking through the list below, I don’t see them as being all that out of character for Timmins, after all. He has reached before (Subban was ranked 104 in his draft year, while Fischer was expected to go later in the 1st round or early in the 2nd in his draft year).

    Player heights and weights in their draft year in brackets, their most recently updated numbers on the NHL pages in bold. Here’s Montreal’s non-goalie picks in the first three rounds under Timmins from 2003-2007:

    2003
    1st – Andrei Kostitsyn (6’0″, 189 lbs.) 6’0″, 214 lbs.
    2nd – Cory Urquhart (6’2″, 195 lbs.) 6’3″, 203 lbs.
    2nd – Maxim Lapierre (6’1.5″, 174 lbs.) 6’2″, 207 lbs.
    3rd – Ryan O’Byrne (6’5″, 210 lbs.) 6’5″, 234 lbs.

    2004
    1st – Kyle Chipchura (6’2″, 197 lbs.) 6’2″, 203 lbs.
    3rd – Alexei Emelin (6’0″, 187 lbs.) 6’2″, 219 lbs.

    2005
    2nd – Guillaume Latendresse (6’1.5″, 216 lbs.) 6’2″, 230 lbs.

    2006
    1st – David Fischer (6’3″, 185 lbs.) 6’3″, 200 lbs.
    2nd – Ben Maxwell (6’0.5″, 177 lbs.) 6’1″, 200 lbs.
    2nd – Mathieu Carle (6’0″, 206 lbs.) 6’0″, 203 lbs.
    3rd – Ryan White (5’11.5″, 200 lbs.) 6’0″, 200 lbs.

    2007
    1st – Ryan McDonagh (6’1″, 200 lbs.) 6’1″, 213 lbs.
    1st – Max Pacioretty (6’1.5″, 203 lbs.) 6’2″, 219 lbs.
    2nd – P.K. Subban (5’10.5″, 200 lbs.) 6’0″, 216 lbs.
    3rd – Olivier Fortier (5’11.5″, 168 lbs.) 5’11″, 181 lbs.
    3rd – Yannick Weber (5’11″, 194 lbs.) 5’11″, 200 lbs.

    2008
    I can’t get the 2008 draft rankings, so I’ll use the data from myNHLDraft.com, which is generally pretty comparable to CSS numbers

    2nd – Danny Kristo (5’11″, 172 lbs.) 5’11″, 184 lbs.
    3rd – Steve Quailer (6’3″, 200 lbs.) 6’4″, 209 lbs.

    2009
    1st – Louis Leblanc (6’0″, 178 lbs.) 6’0″, 190 lbs.
    3rd – Joonas Nattinen (6’2″, 183 lbs.)6’2″, 187 lbs.
    3rd – Mac Bennett (6’0″, 170 lbs.)6’0″, 195 lbs.

    • wjc says:

      Only one comment. The players you mention are prospects. They might look like lightning in the Juniors, but so much in the pros.

      What gets them by in the juniors and gets them noticed and drafted, is not enough sometimes. You usually need to stronger, put on some weight so you can be strong on the puck and be able to establish some push back ability. Do this or not survive.

      A lot of money on the line to not try to bulk up so you at least survive.

      So extra weight is not an option in my opinion, but a necessity. Could be the difference between driving a truck and being a mult-millionaire…..what would you choose?

      wjc

      • Chris says:

        I agree with you, but I think it can be taken too far.

        There are lots of good NHL forwards that are playing under 200 pounds. Obviously, most of those guys are the most talented players in the game. That being said, their agility and speed allows them to try things that they might not be able to attempt if they were more bulky.

        On the current Habs, I felt like both Eller and Pacioretty took it a little too far with their muscle mass development. Both guys looked significantly slower to me this season. Eller was starting to get his legs in the second half, while Pacioretty looked a little off all season despite his good point totals.

        Emelin came to Montreal in better shape this season and was certainly leaner. I felt that he was a little quicker than the year before, without giving much in the way of his hitting ferocity.

        Hockey is so tough because it is a strength and power sport but it is also a heavy cardio sport, one of the most taxing cardio sports that exists. It costs you a lot more energy to drag 10 pounds around the ice, so I would only push players who play a physical style to go much past 190-205 pounds (depending on their height).

    • habstrinifan says:

      WOW!
      This post is not a contribution to ‘issue’ being debated.

      It is simply something that jumped out at me when I went down your list.. and again it is my subjective conclusion.

      I consider a draftee to have fulfilled expectations if his career (over a period of time) meets what would have been a reasonable performance level given the aggregate of his talent, skills, size on which his draft position was predicated. An example of someone from your list who I do not consider as having fulfilled his expectations is Andrei Kostitsyn. Someone in the yet to be determined category (again in my opinion) is Carey Price.

      So having said that when I look at your list I go WOW! Not stellar.. until 2007. Apart from White and Emelin who are in the ‘still playing out’ category, I dont see anyone before 2007 who ‘fulfilled’ expectations. Maybe Lapierre did?

      • Chris says:

        I think that is probably a bit harsh.

        Kyle Chipchura was projected to be a good checking line centre in the NHL. I would argue that he has achieved that expectation, albeit in a longer period of time than was perhaps expected.

        Maxim Lapierre certainly has made a nice career for himself, and I think Emelin has done well since coming over (another example of where patience pays off…SO many Habs fans had written him off, but he just kept doing his thing and came when he felt he was ready).

        Guillaume Latendresse WAS a disappointment, ultimately. He could have been so much more, but his conditioning and work ethic were not optimal and I think his career-ending hit on Rob DiMaio really changed his game.

        The 2006 draft, however, was pretty much a disaster. Not one of those guys has really panned out.

        • habstrinifan says:

          From the first few games I saw of Lapierre I absolutely thought he was gonna be the next big French player for HABS. While he has become a good ‘useful’ NHLer, I dont think he entered the league with a career path like that in his mind. I do not want to cast unfounded blame at the Canadiens but how much of the direction he took.. was their re-invention of him.

          I dont know? One reason is I dont have full confidence in his mental determination to be great, which is needed by any exceptional player.

          A current player on the team could provide a comparison. Would you consider it a career well developed if Eller becomes Lapierre.. a useful NHLer. I would be disappointed I think. Too much skill, size, talent to just be average, I think.

          • Chris says:

            Making the NHL as a regular player is a career well developed for anybody but a top-10 to top-20 pick. Anything beyond that is gravy.

            Lapierre was chosen 61st overall and has gone on to play 463 NHL games, playing for top teams such as Vancouver and (this season St. Louis). Only 28 players from his draft year (the famous 2003 draft class) have played more NHL games 10 years later. When here in Montreal, I used to get so frustrated that people were pushing for Lapierre to play on the 3rd or even the 2nd lines because he could score nice shootout goals. Lapierre was an elite 4th line player, the type of role that will help teams win Stanley Cups. Now, he can ably be a good 3rd line player, and that was all I ever thought he should be groomed for. Anything beyond that is a waste of his skillset.

            I actually think that Eller has achieved his ceiling in terms of his level of play, now he just has to iron out the consistency. I see Eller as a 40-60 point 2nd or 3rd line centre that can play good two-way hockey. Anything beyond that would exceed by expectations.

  13. Habitant in Surrey says:

    @Uce

    …did You receive Facebook messages (2) ?

    _________________________________________________________
    What I WANT ! is an aircraft carrier at centre and nuclear destroyers on each wing going to the net like bats out of Hell !, …NO MORE rubber duckies !!!
    _________________________________________________________
    Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049

    Campaign to Retire Toe Blake’s Number 6 !!!

    Bring Back Boone, and send Thrower to Vancouver !!!

    …and, last, but not least: Jail Putin !!!

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Negative. Facebook is notoriously slow and unreliable when it comes to messaging though, they’re more busierer with stuff like Farmville and winkies and recommending I like a fast food chain or other’s page. I’ll keep checking, and then let’s move over to real email for messages.

  14. Dunboyne Mike says:

    Hey Frontenac!

    Bon voyage and happy landings in bonnie Scotland! Hope I haven’t missed you. And remember, if fog diverts you to Ireland, I’m 20 minutes from the airport, and Dunboyne (a cross-roads surrounded by about 3000 houses) has four pubs! Guinness and Jemmie on me.

    Saludos!

  15. habs11s says:

    Call me crazy, but I prefer watching the CFL than the NFL….

    _____________________________________________________________

    “How would you like a job where when you made a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?” -Jacques Plante

  16. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …let’s go Als ! …let’s go Bears !

  17. JUST ME says:

    Bergevin told reporters today that nothing is decided yet …What else could he say ? I think au contraire that there won`t be many kids graduating this season at least not before the end of the season depending on how it goes and possible trades. The only unknown datas are about Parros,Murray or White playing or not depending on the opponent.

  18. DDO_Habs_Fan says:

    I’m tired of peoples still questioning the McCarron and Crisp picks. At this moment in time, large physical players are scarce. You have to overpay either in free agency or in a trade. MB had no choice but to draft some size (I still think he did not draft enough of it). The Habs needed a monster and they got one…hopefully he works out.

    “You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin

    • Eddie says:

      here’s the issue in my opinion.

      1st round picks should be virtually “can’t miss”, “slam dunks” picks, not
      “hopefully he works out” picks.

      nothing is 100% certain, not even in the 1st round.
      but McCarron is a “hope” type pick which is a mistake in the 1st round.

      • JF says:

        But they drafted Zach Fucale, almost certainly a “can’t miss,” in the second. Reverse the two picks and they’ve got their “can’t miss” plus a hopeful. Not to mention the other two second-rounders, both of whom are strong hopefuls..

        • Eddie says:

          Let’s be clear.

          I’m not talking about the overall success of the draft. I’m talking about the specific pick of McCarron in the 1st round.

          I like Fucale.

          I like De la Rose a lot. I wish he was in North America, but he is a terrific prospect.

          • JF says:

            Perhaps they thought McCarron wouldn’t still be there in the second round, so they grabbed him with their first pick. Other teams were interested in him.

          • Eddie says:

            I would have passed on McCarron if we missed him in the 2nd round.

            I would have taken Adam Erne in the 1st round, then I like De La Rose and Fucale, and then I would have taken Will Carrier as our last pick in the 2nd round.

            We end up with 3 NHL power forwards and a goalie.

          • Habs4LifeInTO says:

            Character problems with Erne from what I heard. He made some dumb statements at the combine, which confused a few people. He was not going to be a Hab. There was some information posted here that McCarron was fairly high on other team lists. If they wanted him it had to be at 25 or never. They wanted him….Carrier was said to have too much sulk in his personality. I wouldn’t have minded Zykov at some point along the way but maybe the Russian factor scared MB off. Anyways, to your point, I’m happy with our 2013 haul too.

            24 cups and counting….

          • Silverthaw says:

            Roy was Erne’s coach last year and Colorado didn’t even take him in the second round despite him going only one or two picks later

      • ZepFan2 says:

        Wasn’t Doug Wickenheiser a “slam dunk”, “can’t miss” prospect?

        ———————————————————————-
        Ka is a wheel.

        “On we sweep, with threshing oar.
        Our only goal will be the Stanley Cup!” – Danno

        For Your Life

      • Mark C says:

        Who says he’s a “hope” actual NHL scouts or Internet posters?

        • Eddie says:

          he’s no slam dunk.

          • Mark C says:

            Ok just avoid the question, but Erne isn’t a slam drunk either. Seems like a lot of teams may have passed on him due to character concerns.

        • Phil C says:

          CSS had McCarron ranked 35th among NA skaters. That would project him to be a 2nd or 3rd rounder according to the pro scouts where your chances of making the NHL is in the 25% range. I would call that a “hope”. MB went off the board with this pick. It may work out, but it is obviously a calculated risk that is open to scrutiny.

          Commandant had him ranked 60th due to his skating.

          http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/06/11/mike-mccarron-2013-nhl-draft-player-profile-60/

          • Mark C says:

            Interesting picking his two lowest rankings while omitting TSN at 34, Mckeen’s at 33, Hockey News at 27, and ISS at 23. Also, per their draft TV shows Philly had him at 23 and Columbus at 30. Also, Grant McCagg on HF said he was told by Ottawa’s assistant GM that he was in their top 20. Many NHL personal gave him a late 1st early 2nd draft grade.

          • Phil C says:

            You asked what NHL scouts thought. That’s why I picked CSS.

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        Habs picked 25th Not 5th
        There are no slam dunk, sure things after the top 5 and there have even been exceptions there like 4th overall Benoit
        Pouliot in 2005-Hickey 4th overall in 2007….Alexandre Daigle…

      • Loop_Garoo says:

        The only problem with that is that in any draft, there are at best only a couple of can’t miss picks. Even if you are drafting at 10, there is still a pretty decent chance that the player will have little or no NHL career. Once your in the 20′s, its not much different than in the 2nd round. Even though this draft was really deep, by the time we are at #20 or so, every pick has questions marks beside it.

        Greg

    • twilighthours says:

      You’ll get over it, DDO. It’s just hockey, after all. Nothing too important.

    • Sportfan says:

      I agree DDO, I don’t think there was enough size drafted.

      Sports and Entertainment in the link click and enjoy, clicking is fun!
      http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/

    • Stevie.Ray says:

      What do you mean “still questioning”? What has changed in the two months of no hockey to make me change my tune. The fact remains in my opinion that there were better players available, that had some size, and filled a need (power forward goal scorer). We passed on safer players with higher upside, for a risky player that is a third liner at best (and I don’t see him getting there). As much as I would love a 6’5″ top six player on the Habs, I’m not going to pretend that McCarron is something he isnt. He appears to have good “character” so I still have some optimism that he might be able to make the NHL as a bottom 6 guy, but realistically I see him playing a similar role as Blunden.

      You can call me negative but the fact remains that if a team is able to draft 1 NHL regular in a draft year then that is around the NHL average. I see Fucale, De La Rose as being the likely two to make the NHL, and Lekhonen being a really, really good AHler. That right there means I’m being more positive about this years draft than I realistically should be.

  19. pmaraw says:

    Brendan Gallagher ‏@BGALLY17 1h
    NFL football is back!!! Lets hear your Super Bowl picks. I got the bengals! You heard it here first
    Expand
    Canadiens Montréal ‏@CanadiensMTL 46m
    @BGALLY17 that pick takes more guts than dropping the gloves with @GeorgeParros

    we’re in trouble if this is real, it takes more guts to make an outrageous superbowl pick than to fight our enforcer, i’m a little concerned.

  20. BJ says:

    Anyone know an internet site where I can watch the Als game vs Toronto?

  21. Loop_Garoo says:

    Watching that clip of McCarron from the U18, a couple things come to mind. First of all, that goal is a beauty! Uses his strength to get puck on the boards, then pops out through everyone to put it in. Second, when we talk about his speed, we tend to compare him to AHL or NHL players, in that game, against players his age, he’s not the fastest, but he is by no means out of place when it comes to speed.

    Greg

  22. ProHabs says:

    Patiently waiting for a new thread to begin so that I can get the first comment on it.

    • JohnBellyful says:

      Look at this way, you were the first one to post at 1:26 p.m. That makes you something of a trailblazer. The rest of us are just now following in your footsteps.

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      It’s not always good to be first at some things…

      “You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin

  23. JohnBellyful says:

    Don’t know if this has been posted already – if it has, I need to get better security for my computer – but here are MY lines for the rookie camp’s final scrimmage tomorrow:

    Red team with white stripes and blue dots
    Tim Bozon – Connor Crisp – Sven Andrighetto
    Martin Reway – Brady Vail – Michael McCarron
    Tanner Eberle – Jeremy Gregoire – Stefan Fournier

    White team with blue stripes and red dots
    Charles Hudon – Joonas Nattinen – Patrick Holland
    Erik Nystrom – Stephen MacAulay – Christian Thomas
    Steven Quailer – Ben Duffy – Marcus Hinds

    There were so many factors to consider – offensive capabilities, defensive play, size, temperament, character, skating ability, left-handed shot vs right-handed shot, North American system vs European style, willingness to go to the net, receptivity to instruction – that I didn’t bother.
    I will listen to suggestions – should I have used a different font? Done the team names in bold? – but there are limits to my patience.

  24. Habs4LifeInTO says:

    Watching these three clips I am very encouraged by this young man. He seems bright and articulate in the interview and he battles for the puck along the boards and looks good doing it. His hands look fairly skilled on the shoot out attempt and he maintains the gap off the start well enough. Well brought up by the sounds of things and willing to work to achieve his goals. I like him more and more. I haven’t seen or heard anything to make me think that Mike McMarron was a mistake. He is a very good pick up for the Habs.

    24 cups and counting….

  25. JF says:

    Been reading the discussion about McCarron and Crisp and the likelihood or otherwise of big guys who dominate in junior being able to make it in the NHL. It’s several years too soon to say whether either McCarron or Crisp will make it. Both have skills, both have major deficiencies they need to address. We should also be careful about reading too much into a three-day development camp. Most of us have never seen these kids play, and, even if we have, we won’t know much unless we focus on them throughout an entire game or more.

    Phil C below mentions the Canadiens’ development program as something that could make the difference in whether these kids make it to the NHL or not. Under the new regime, the Habs certainly seem to be putting a lot more effort and personnel into development than they did in the past, so I think we can be confident the players will be followed closely and given the help they need to improve. It also helps that we are no longer flinging our draft picks around with reckless abandon; the more picks we have, the more likely we are to hit a home run.

  26. on2ndthought says:

    Everyone complaining about McCarron’s skating should look at that replay of his shootout. Big (tall) players can’t skate like Gallagher, all windmill churning and obviously working; they are just too…. well, big! Look back at Beliveau or ‘The Little M’ (who were often accused of being ‘lazy’). Long, graceful strides can cover ice as quickly as eggbeaters. I’m not saying McC is a blazer, but since he only needs to be as fast as the guy he is chasing or is chasing him, let’s just wait and see. I noticed when he came to Domi’s defense, he overtook Latta(?), interposed, and turned around to face him in a very timely and impressive way. He needs to be fast enough to get his job (given by the coaches, not by us) done. Is he as fast as Lucic? Orr? Scott? Parros?

    Get ‘er done, Mikey!

    “a cannonading drive”

  27. Marc10 says:

    An interesting tid-bit about the Habs golf tournament. Rick Dudley wasn’t there. Apparently he was out scouting juniors. Love that guy.

    I don’t know if McCarron or Crisp are going to pan out, but knowing Dudley and his encyclopaedic knowledge of the game is out there scouting and is part of the vetting process with Timmins (one of the best at drafting NHLers over the last ten years)… Well I have to believe we’re going to be all right.

    Who knows we might just find ourselves another gem in there somewhere…
    Go Habs go!

  28. HabFab says:

    Pat Hickey – Whites win shootout contest at #Habs rookie scrimmage as Hudon and Quailer score. Duffy scores for Reds

    • JohninTruro says:

      Have heard nothing on Thrower, pretty disappointing so far.

      • Sportfan says:

        Thrower was at the rookie camp right, I didn’t hear anything about him at all either.

        Sports and Entertainment in the link click and enjoy, clicking is fun!
        http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        Saw his name on the roster, and that’s all the mentions for him. He’d have had to explode this camp to force his way into the Hamilton roster. He’s headed back to the WHL with the Vancouver Giants, which isn’t horrible news really.

        • Stevie.Ray says:

          I said it the day he was drafted: Thrower won’t make the NHL. I asked someone who worked with the Blades about him and his exact words were, “cares more about where the next party is, than hockey”.
          Dietz on the other hand has the heart of a champion. And “is the cliche first guy on the ice, last guy off.”

          • Un Canadien errant says:

            That’s good intel, wish I’d heard that before. He’s often described as being from North Vancouver, but he also lived in Squamish, which is in my neck of the woods, so I’ve been trying to get the scoop from a local, but no luck so far.

            It would sting if a second-round pick like that was doomed from the start, a bit of a waste, the character issue must have been vetted though and the Canadiens decided that the risk was worthwhile.

          • Stevie.Ray says:

            He’s talented and maybe some day he matures. I would rather the Habs trade him while his value is high.

        • Habs4LifeInTO says:

          Not with Don Hay there, no. I agree going back to Vancouver might be the best thing for Thrower.

          24 cups and counting….

  29. lyle_odelein says:

    Stats for lucic the year he was drafted.

    2005-06 Vancouver Giants WHL games 62
    Goals 9
    assists 10
    points 19
    pim 149

    How about we stop pretending that we know about how a player will develop, and give mccaron a chance to do so before we make an opinion about the kid.

    • Sportfan says:

      I know I’m giving him a chance and letting him develop, I can’t wait to see him; but I can also wait on him developing and under Hunters supervision I trust them and think they’ll do a good job.

      Sports and Entertainment in the link click and enjoy, clicking is fun!
      http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/

    • Habfan17 says:

      I agree, I used these stats yesterday to compare Lucic to Connor Crisp. Crisp played 63 games last season, had 22 goals, 14 assists and 139 pims. What I was using the stats for was say, it is too early to say Crisp was a wasted pick as some were saying. How can we tell how he will develop?

      Habfan17

      • Habs4LifeInTO says:

        No way to say he was a wasted pick this early. Far too disrespectful to think that. He has every chance to turn into exactly what will be needed in 2-3 years a 3rd line grinder with size, defensive awareness and some offensive upside. Plus Terry Crisp will provide excellent guidance, I am sure. Given the last point alone he is more likely to succeed than not.

        24 cups and counting….

    • Phil C says:

      “How about we stop pretending that we know about how a player will develop”

      I didn’t read any posts like that, no sure what you are talking about.

      Your stats on Lucic show it is almost impossible to pick the “next Lucic”. That’s why I like it when the team stockpiles draft picks. You need as many opportunities as possible to get lucky.

    • The Dude says:

      Oh trust me on this lyle…this site is full of”hookers with PHD’s”. The point you make about Lucic is perfect and the fact that he turned into one of most well rounded NHLers and a team leader is the way it is.The truth is it’s better to gamble on a very big prospect .

    • Chris says:

      You are basically saying the same thing as I am, although it isn’t coming out that way. I don’t think any draft pick is a waste…clearly the scouts saw something they liked.

      I’m just pleading for patience. The further down the draft a player is picked, the less likely they are to make the league. What is often also true is that it will take 4-6 years for that process to play itself out.

      Crisp may very well make it. Based on what I know of him, I will be surprised (but it would be a very happy surprise!) if he does because he is simply so raw.

      But I also think people have ridiculous expectations of 17 and 18 year old kids. They see 5’11″ and 170 or 180 pounds and think “That guy is so small…yet another Habs Smurf!” In reality, that is a very reasonable size for a kid of that age. You’re banking on how much they fill out as adults.

      Alex Kovalev is example A. At his draft, he weighed about 175-180 pounds. By the time he was playing in Montreal, he weighed 225-230 pounds, depending on who you listened to. He added 50 pounds of (largely) muscle mass as an adult.

  30. JohninTruro says:

    Frank, is it me or does one of those teams look a lot stronger than the other?

    • HabFab says:

      On roster IMO you would expect the Whites to be stronger but the Reds have now won both games.

      • JohninTruro says:

        That’s interesting though. I looked at the roster list and I was like wow White has the better team, I mean look at their D group. Down 2-0 though, with a chance to gain a little respect tomorrow. They did win the shootout, for all that is worth.

  31. sweetmad says:

    It really irks me,to see every body going on about size,all the time,it has nothing to do with size.Big or small, it’s all about how much that person wants it,we have so much proof of that already on our team and in the NHL.

    You cannot learn talent,but you can learn sense,you can learn skill,a big body does not mean you are slow,look at Usain Bolt,all the “experts” say with that body he shouldn’t be able to run like he does.Look at Gallagher he shouldn’t be able to play like he does.

    At the end of the day,it’s all about talent,and character.Look around you,there are examples,of all sorts of people,who do what they shouldn’t be able to do.I remember a football player from Ireland,who had so much talent he could have been the best ever.His name was George Best but he wasted it all,the fame went to his head.

    Talent has nothing to do with size,big or small,being the best you can has nothing to do with talent,but the character will do that for you.

    Skating can be taught even to a big boy, it is a skill,we should teach it the way Eller was taught,with power skating along with a drill,or teach them figure skating as well.More and more teams are getting skating coaches now,who are usually figure skaters,or speed skaters.

    There are so many anomilies out there for every thing,there is no norm.My brother played Rugby with the men at 17, he was so big and fast,and he didn’t grow much after that,He actually coached the McGill ladies team in the 80′s.

    Yes alright, if you are big it’s a lot harder,to get pushed around.But throwing the pick out of the window,at 18 You have to give them a chance.I don’t understand what the problem is with these picks,Mac and Crisp,isn’t that what you all wanted big bruisers.Next year we can get some talent,they might all grow into themselves together.
    GO HABS GO

  32. Phil C says:

    Re : drafting big guys,

    The big difference for the Habs now is their player development staff. Bug guys like McCarron and Crisp will be given every opportunity to succeed. It will not be left to chance like it has been in the past. Hopefully deficiencies will be identified early.

    Watching some of the video, you can see the potential in McCarron, soft hands like that are a gift from god. But the skating needs a lot of work. Big guy Brian Boyle worked with Barbera Underhill a lot to improve his stride, got his back straighter, his head up more with a deeper and more powerful stride. He would not have made to the NHL without that instruction. Hopefully they Habs can provide similar instruction to McCarron.

    • sweetmad says:

      PhiC you said it while I was typing my post,it is something I have been saying for years.
      Tinardi is no longer on the players roster so it looks like he will have to earn his spot.
      GO HABS GO

    • Chris says:

      Barbara Underhill is a co-owner of the Guelph Storm, the OHL team I follow most closely as a resident of Guelph. She’s been working with the Storm players for years on their skating. It is amazing how many of these big guys simply aren’t all that great at skating.

      Taylor Beck was a nice young power forward with the Storm. In his second junior season (and his NHL draft year), he and the team’s management approached Underhill for help because Beck couldn’t turn left. This is a guy that was on a point-per-game pace in the OHL yet he struggled with a pretty fundamental skill. Team captain Matt Kennedy, another power forward, was a brutal skater despite being the team’s leading scorer. Underhill spent a lot of time with him too.

      I’m amazed that every NHL team does not have power skating instructors on staff to work with their kids. We just assume that a lot of these guys are elite skaters because they are so talented. In reality, many of them are getting by despite their skating.

      • Phil C says:

        I believe she was hired by the Leafs. I wonder if the Habs have anyone like her on staff.

        It is interesting how some kids keep developing while others don’t. I can see why a big kid would be at a disadvantage for acceleration, but it should be no different than smaller kids for technical skills like turning.

  33. HabFab says:

    Canadiens Montréal – T. Eberle (reds) and M. Nygren (whites) score back to back within 10 sec.
    - C. Thomas in all alone gives the reds the lead with a top-corner shot.
    - T. Eberle strikes again for the reds, this time on a penalty shot.
    - 3-1 after the 1st for the Reds
    - Hudon scores after a great individual effort, Whites inch back to within a goal
    - Final score Reds win 3-2. Shoot out to follow.

  34. Un Canadien errant says:

    Chris, nice work on that insight that big players in junior may be dominant due to their size, and that advantage may fade away over the next few seasons. It’s stuff like that, and the observation by “That’s Offside” that big defencemen who play solid defensive hockey in the CHL don’t tend to be successful in the NHL, that I thought was available, that “Money Ball” analytics would also pay off in hockey.

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.ca/2011/11/canadiens-in-salary-cap-era.html

    An interesting counter-indicative point is that the Rangers scouts all were really high Ryan McDonagh because of his great size, how he was a “a man among boys” during the Scouting Combine. So it looks like he might have been one of the exceptions, a player who was dominant due to his size advantage at lower levels, but developed his game further to remain exceptional.

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.ca/2012/07/jeff-finger-or-kurt-sauer-ryan-mcdonagh.html

    Gordie Clark, the Rangers’ Director, Player Personnel, was awed by McDonagh at the 2007 NHL Combine, where teams had an opportunity to interview players and test their physical fitness.

    “I remember back in that draft year, I would say he might have given the single most impressive performance I have ever seen during the testing at the Combine,” said Clark. “It was like a man working out against boys. I think you can still see that in his play.”

    http://rangers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=531525

    I wonder how many of these draft picks that the Canadiens/Trevor Timmins make that sometimes make us scratch our heads, players like Brady Vail or Martin Reway or Connor Crisp, whether it’s a kid who falls into the right intersection of the Venn diagram. Because if I’m Geoff Molson, I own the Canadiens and can only spend so much on players, I’m hiring a bunch of experts who can work with databases and I’m looking for those indicators as well. And I wonder even more if Brian Burke is trying to throw other teams off the scent when he downplays the value of analytics.

    Because that’s a very easy relationship you describe there, no need for any exhaustive data mining, not even controlling for three variables at one time, like the “27-26-60 Rule” for drafting NFL quarterbacks.

    • Chris says:

      The thing to remember with McDonagh is that he was a heck of a hockey player too. He was an elite defender even in his draft year. What people kept hoping was that his offence would catch up to his defensive game.

  35. HabFab says:

    Jacques Martin’s favorite Montreal sports reporter Jessica R talks about the Rookie Camp (audio 15 minutes);
    http://iphone.tsn.ca/tsnpodcasts/tsnradio/rusnak090713.mp3

  36. Bash says:

    All this talk about drafting for size or skill got me thinking about my own experience. In AAA Midget I was a scoring machine and loved to go to the net…all 145 pounds of me. When I got to junior everything changed! I was no longer 145 pounds. I had blossomed to 150! I decided to pursue other options.

    You can’t teach size.

    “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” (anon)

  37. HabFab says:

    Berkshire and Obrand from ETOP on twitter watching the morning practice and scrimmage at Brossard;
    http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/habs-prospects/2013/9/8/4706190/montreal-canadiens-rookie-camp-day-three

  38. Hobie Hansen says:

    Stu Cowan wrote the other day that Jarred Tinordi being at the golf tournament was perhaps a tip of that he’s sticking with the Canadiens this year.

    I think since Tinordi played in the playoffs last year and with the injury to Alexi Emelin, he’ll start the season in Montreal. People have been mentioning he’s put on 20 or 25 pounds over the summer. We saw how vulnerable the team was without Emelin so I’m sure Bergevin and Therrien don’t want to run with only one big and physical defenceman.

    So I think we’ll see both Tinordi and Douglas Murray in the lineup. And when Emelin comes back, it will be a real tough call on who sits. Will it be Tinordi, Murray or Raph Diaz is the question?

    • Loop_Garoo says:

      I think that Tinordi starts in Hamilton, with Beaulieu. It seems like the best thing for young players is to play some time with the big team, then go back for 30 or 40 games to work on what they learned. Next year will be the big change in my opinion, with Tinordi and Beaulieu both starting, and Pateryn knocking on the door. Diaz brings a lot, and is a lot smarter than many give him credit for, but I think Beaulieu replaces him next year, with Tinordi replacing Murray. Markov, Subban, Emelin, Gorges, Tinordi and Beaulieu is a pretty talented group that wont be pushed around.

      Greg

    • Phil C says:

      Tinordi seems more of a replacement for Gorges than Diaz. Anyway. We’ll see once camp starts as I think the Habs value Diaz more than many people here, at least based on how he has been used in the past.

  39. frontenac1 says:

    Hola Amigos! Off on a Walkabout for awhile and like I used to tell the Lads when I was Coaching, “Play Hard and Have Fun!” Go Habs and Saludos!

  40. HabFab says:

    From Rookie Camp tweets and reports, Beaulieu and Pateryn have been working together while Tinordi has been paired with Nygren. That leaves Dietz with Ellis as your third pairing for the Bulldogs. Sounds promising…

  41. CharlieHodgeFan says:

    The poll question asking if Tinordi should be with the Habs or Bulldogs is downright silly. What do we have to go on to claim an opinion?
    If the young man has brains and drive, he will have worked all summer, so last season’s call-up won’t necessarily reflect his position. If he is lazy and short-sighted, he’ll be out of shape and the same will apply.
    We are so quick to judge without evidence. Let’s see what the pre-season shows us, and then we can have intelligent opinions. He could come in as a giant Gallagher and grab a spot, or not.
    I am looking forward to watching some pre-season hockey. I want to see if Beaulieu still thinks it’s wise to pass from one side of the opposing blueline to the other, as he did 2 years ago. He pulled that one off but… That’s the fun of pre-season, and of live hockey. You get to see the things that never show up in the stats. Then, we can discuss here!

  42. Loop_Garoo says:

    The other thing we have to remember is every draft pick is a gamble. Galchenyuk was a huge gamble last year after not playing the year before. Gainey got a ton of criticism for picking Subban at 44. The time of life when we develop the most physically and mentally is between 17 and 22 or 23, there is just no way to know for sure. The only thing I know is as much as read and learn about potential draft picks before the draft, I (we) really don’t have a clue, and I am very glad it’s TT’s choice, and not ours.
    Greg

  43. HabFab says:

    McCarron’s goal yesterday for those that missed it;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiMRzH5AFfI

    • Mark C says:

      If he’s skating is so bad how come no one closed the gap over half the length of ice?

      • Loop_Garoo says:

        I noticed the same thing, No one got closer until the last few feet of his breakaway, when he slowed down to make his move.

        Greg

      • twilighthours says:

        Who was on the ice against him? How many of those guys will ever play in the NHL? And at the NHL level, where being fast means gaining a half-step at best, did you expect any to catch him?

        • Mark C says:

          He doesn’t need to be NHL fast to be an effective player. His size and power will offset his lack of high end skating. Lucic has been a highly effective, 30 goal scorer with at best, NHL average skating. This is due to his power, determinate, and shot. All elements in McCarron’s toolbox. Most scouts seem to agree that over the past few years McCarron has improved his skating, until he stops showing improvement, I believe it is reasonable to expect he will be, at least, a NHL average skater by his early to mid 20s, much like Lucic.

      • Phil C says:

        Even my peewee-age house league-level daughter can skate fast in a straight line.

  44. HABZ24 says:

    Eventually send the smaller players out to pasture and replace with big hard hitting gritty players making habs an in your face hard team to play against that wont be checked off the puck. Deharnais, gionta etc

  45. Mark C says:

    I see the HIO super scouts are out bemoaning the McCarron pick. Can’t we let him play a few real games first?

    • CharlieHodgeFan says:

      How about letting him play a few years first?

      • Loop_Garoo says:

        I assume that T Timmons saw something in his skating that could be improved/corrected. The kid is only 18, really only been playing against high level competition for a few years. Many people that tall take years to get comfortable within their size, I can only imagine how hard that would be on skates. He does not need to be a first line forward to be a great pick, and he does not need to Lucic. I would be thrilled with a third line banger with 15 goals, who cant be moved from the front of the net on the power play or 6 on 5, his hands are already good enough to put in those rebounds, according to several reports. Can’t wait to watch him when he comes to Barrie with the Knights in Feb.

        Greg

    • Habfan10912 says:

      While I agree with you and Charlie that the jury is still out on McCarron I enjoy reading what others have to say about our youngsters. Especially those that have seen him play.
      It always struck me as a difficult thing to project what a teenager will become when he becomes a man. In life or sports. After the first few “can’t misses” it does seem like a crap shoot, huh?

      • CharlieHodgeFan says:

        I don’t even think the jury is out. As a teenager, he can’t even be charged yet.
        I grew a foot in three years as a teenager, and I danced like a tangle of coat hangers falling down a fire escape. By 22 I had figured out my dimensions, refocussed hand eye coordination and learned my new strike zone. The kid is big, and he has to learn a few fine motor tricks – it’s something guys who stay smaller don’t have to sort out.
        For me, he is not even on the radar as an NHLer, and won’t be for some time. So ignore him and let him find his feet in a new world.

    • SlovakHab says:

      I see the HIO super scouts are out expecting the McCarron pick to save the franchise. Can’t we let him play a few real games first?

    • twilighthours says:

      I hope we can be curious about the pick, and express logical and thoughtful opinions, without derision.

      • CharlieHodgeFan says:

        I don’t want to look like I’m saying not to discuss a player’s potential – I guess I just get frustrated at the thundering judgments that come down sometimes. I think it’s fair game to discuss the play of AHLers and NHLers, and to look to junior for future stars. The drafting strategies of the team are interesting enough.
        But when I see people (not you Twilight) suggest an 18 year old who hasn’t had the chance to play since the last draft is already a bust, I shake my head. He’s slow? So was Luc Robitaille. A guy is small? Look at Henri Richard. He’s a little wild? Shayne Corson or Chris Chelios spring to mind. He falls down a lot? John Leclair. He’s a can’t miss superstar? Alexandre Daigle.
        I really don’t know if McCarron was a good pick. I hope so. But I’m not going to focus on the guy for a year or two – until the pros have had a chance to do some on the job training with him. And I don’t think we can say a lot about his play until the poor guy has had a chance to play.
        I’d like to see informed views on Pateryn, Leblanc, Dumont, Beaulieu et al as we move forward. Those guys are in range and a lot of people here have seen them in action. By March, I’d love to see the posters who get to watch McCarron’s play for a season filling us in.

        Maybe I know nothing and err with patience. I watched an AHL kid when the farm team was Fredericton. He dominated. Every shift was electric, and I thought I was watching a star. Benoit Brunet was his name.

        Things play out strangely.

        • twilighthours says:

          Right on, chuck. You might notice that I only really offer my opinion on a player once. Then I let it go. But you’re right, patience is a good thing with 18 year olds.

    • Chris says:

      I’m not bemoaning the pick. I’m pleading with people to give him 3-5 years to develop, like we didn’t do with another promising young power forward named Guillaume Latendresse.

  46. twilighthours says:

    This McCarron sure is a controversial pick.

    It won’t be his hands that keep him out of the show. It will be his skating, unless it improves significantly.

    I was no fan of the pick and I’ve warmed only slightly. But I understand MB’s rationale… If you’re going to gamble, do it with the type of player you desperately need.

  47. Lafleurguy says:

    What Have You Done for Us Lately?/Life’s Gone South after Koo Left.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24005811

    “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

    • Lafleurguy says:

      A New Era. American Giants like McDonald’s, Disney, have been successes on foreign soil for a long time. Here comes the Russian Bear.

      “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

    • Eddie says:

      Yesterday I found a KHL tv station on my Bell Fibe here in Montreal. It was offering a KHL game. I think it’s part of a bigger Russian package of stations.

      A few years back my son attended a KHL game with his high school hockey team – in St Petersberg. The locals have great fun at those games. The fans are excited, loud, singing, and enjoying every moment.

      How did NHL hockey evolve into a sport where the fans watch mostly sitting on their hands until something exciting happens on the ice?

      • CharlieHodgeFan says:

        The cost.
        Going to see the Habs with family or with your crazy friends is too expensive – if it were the past scenario when you could go to a hockey game because you felt like it and managed to score a ticket, you’d get a more spontaneous crowd in there.
        I’m sure there are exceptions, but the guys I know who go to the most games tend to be rich, power and decorum conscious types – not the guys you’d invite to a party.
        For a wild crowd, you need people who are comfortable in the building through famililiarity and who don’t give a crap what dull people say. The fun in any sports event starts in the cheap seats, and cheap seats in the Bell Centre?

  48. HabFab says:

    JT takes a close look at Markov’s play;
    http://habsloyalist.blogspot.ca/

  49. Hobie Hansen says:

    One week ladies and gents. Next Sunday should be a good day of watching NFL, followed by the Habs 1st preseason game on RDS. We’ll have to PVR Breaking Bad for that one :-).

  50. Mavid says:

    7

    Weed Wacker Gramda Smurf

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      7
      Howie Morenz

      Joe Malone

      Amos Arbour, Nick Bawlf, Louis Berlinguette
      Odie Cleghorn, Jimmy Gardiner, Jack Laviolette
      Hector Lapine, Eugene Payan, Georges Poulin, Donald Smith,Tommy Smith

    • JohnBellyful says:

      days in a week

      years of bad luck

      wonders of the ancient world (Great Pyramid of Giza, Hanging Gardens of Babylon, Temple of Artemis at Ephesus, Statue of Zeus at Olympia, Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, Colossus of Rhodes, Lighthouse of Alexandria)

      wonders of the modern world (bread, bra, land, bar, kind, lust, Stevie)

      TD passes thrown by Manning against Ravens Thursday night (woohoo!)

      -11

      -Up

      deadly sins (wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony)

      deadly virtues (humility, liberality, chastity, kindness, abstinence, patience, and diligence)

      (atomic number of nitrogen)

      th heaven

      th circle of hell, reserved for the violent, blasphemers, Sodomites, and Flyer fans

      th inning stretch

      Magnificent cowboys

      husbands, not so magnificent (Elizabeth Taylor, Lana Turner)

      artists (group of Canadian boys – painted trees, clouds and water)

      Years’ War

      -pointed star, traditional symbol for warding off evil (uh oh, Dallas Stars’ new logo has only five-and-a-half)

      Hills of Rome

      seas

      -Year Itch

      -Year Scratch

      Dwarfs – Bashful, Doc, Dopey, Grumpy, Happy, Sleepy, Sneezy

      Smurfs – George Hainsworth, Aurèle Joliat, Henri Richard, Charlie Hodge, Yvan Cournoyer, Mats Naslund, and Brian Gionta, all of whom co-wrote

      HABits of Highly Effective People

      games in a playoff series that goes the limit

      dog years = one human year (eg, ‘It will be three dog years after their last Cup win before the Canadiens win another’)

      words you can never say on network television (or post here) – ****, ****, ****, ****, **********, ************, and ****

      -second delay so words you can never say on network television – ****, ****, ****, ****, **********, ************, and **** – don’t get broadcast on live network television (but can be said repeatedly in your own home while watching your favourite hockey team play, or listening to Don Cherry)

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Howie Morenz

  51. Maritime Ronn says:

    @ Chris

    Interesting and well researched post as usual, yet not quite sure what your point is concerning McCarron/Crisp.
    If it is a call for patience, then agreed…and no, their impact will never be Top 10 NHL scorer, but it need not be.

    Organizations draft according to skill or huge perceived need, and the list you provide shows a majority of the ‘larger’ young men drafted are in the later 3rd+ rounds. Chances for ANY size player of making the NHL as an ‘impact player’ diminish vs. the first 2 rounds – not impossible, but much less likely.

    The bottom line has become quite evident recently.
    A Cup winning team needs ‘balance’ and all kinds of different elements to win.
    Of course great talent and goaltending goes without saying…yet look at the overall make-up of the last 4 Cup winning teams.

    Kane, Sharp, and Hossa were terrific, yet do the Hawks win the Cup without big man Bickel that battled hard, while at the same time finished as the 5th highest playoff scorer?

    In 2012, big man Anze Kopitar (6’3″-225lbs) lead all playoff scorers tied with gritty 212 lbs Dustin Brown, and the Kings Big Bottom 6 dominated…then look at the size/skill of that Top 6 D.

    The Bruins in 2011?
    Super talented and underrated David Krejci along with Patrice Bergeron were great along with the highly disliked small guy Marchand, but that Bruins team does not win without the grit and size of Horton, Lucic and Chara/Boychuk and a gritty bottom 6.

    Back to the Habs, there is/was a huge organizational void concerning size everywhere.
    The worst thing that happened to the Habs was the
    2010 “Playoff Halakccident” that gave the team/fans a huge false sense that the team was on the right track with smallish skill only.

    Bergevin was left with complete team imbalance and had no choice but to roll the dice and draft size because those types of players are rarely traded, or come up for UFA status – Clarkson being the anomaly, yet look at the term and dollars needed to secure that UFA who will turn 30 next March (7 years-$36.750M!)

    The Habs are loaded with under-sized, good to very good skill forwards both with the big team and at this week’s rookie camp ( 8 forwards are less than 179 pounds, with Martin Renway at 5’8″-158 lbs).
    The Habs don’t need any more of the same – hence, the drafting of some size.

    • HabFab says:

      My take of what Chris is saying is that guys who are large at draft time do not necessarily do better or even as well as those who are smaller at that point. Probably because they are either dominating the smaller players because of their size and looking better as players then they actually are or have already peaked physically at 17-18 years old.

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        Hi Fab
        Understood, but to narrowly pick a draft year and a majority 3rd round + chosen players doesn’t paint the whole picture.
        Teams don’t choose those bigger guys to win scoring championships or Norris trophies.
        They become part of the hoped for overall balance needed to win a Cup.
        As we mostly know – and even with the huge increase of scouting and evaluation techniques, duds of any size in any Draft Round still happen.

        • Chris says:

          I chose 2007 simply because the draft rankings exist from that year along with the players’ heights and weights. I couldn’t find them from 2008 or 2009. 2007 was also a relatively strong year.

          But let’s look at the draft against which all others are measured, 2003.

          North American Skaters

          3 – Thomas Vanek (6’2″, 208 lb. forward): star forward
          6 – Braydon Coburn (6’5″, 205 lb. defenceman): top-4 defenceman
          8 – Dion Phaneuf (6’2″, 205 lb. defenceman): top-2 defenceman
          11 – Steve Bernier (6’2.5″, 233 lb. forward): 3rd/4th line forward
          17 – Mark Stuart (6’1″, 209 lb. defenceman): third pairing defenceman
          19 – Anthony Stewart (6’1.5″, 239 lb. forward): depth forward
          24 – Jonathan Filewich (6’2″, 208 lb. forward): minor leaguer
          25 – Brent Seabrook (6’2.5″, 220 lb. defenceman): top-2 defenceman
          33 – Shawn Belle (6’1″, 220 lb. defenceman): minor leaguer
          34 – Brian Boyle (6’5.5″, 222 lb. forward): 3rd/4th liner
          44 – Alexandre Picard (6’2″, 214 lb. defenceman): depth defenceman/minor leaguer
          47 – Jamie Tardif (6’0″, 207 lb. forward): minor leaguer
          49 – Richard Stehlik (6’4″, 245 lb. defenceman): european leagues
          53 – Shane Hynes (6’3″, 210 lb. forward): minor leaguer, out of hockey
          57 – Aaron Dawson (6’4.5″, 220 lb. defenceman): minor leaguer
          59 – Paul Bissonnette (6’2.5″, 211 lb. defenceman): goon
          60 – John Doherty (6’4″, 213 lb. defenceman): minor leaguer, out of hockey
          69 – Greg Moore (6’0.5″, 206 lb. forward): minor leaguer
          71 – Nathan Saunders (6’3.5″, 210 lb. defenceman): minor leaguer
          80 – James Pemberton (6’4″, 215 lb. defenceman): minor leaguer, out of hockey
          81 – Zach Fitzgerald (6’2″, 205 lb. defenceman): minor leaguer
          88 – Jean-Francois Jacques (6’3.5″, 217 lb. forward): depth forward, minor leaguer
          91 – David Svagrovsky (6’3″, 205 lb. forward): minor leaguer
          94 – Ryan Donally (6’4″, 210 lb. forward): minor leaguer, out of hockey
          116 – Ryan O’Byrne (6’5″, 210 lb. defenceman): third pairing defenceman
          122 – Dan Travis (6’3″, 220 lb. forward): minor leaguer, out of hockey
          126 – Ryan Gibbons (6’4″, 210 lb. forward): minor leaguer, out of hockey
          130 – Tyler Strachan (6’3″, 205 lb. defenceman): depth defenceman
          134 – Andre Joanisse (6’3″, 220 lb. defenceman): university, out of hockey
          140 – Petr Jelinek (6’0.5″, 208 lb. forward): european leagues
          141 – Stuart Simmons (6’0.5″, 212 lb. defenceman): minor leagues, out of hockey
          146 – Zack Stortini (6’3″, 217 lb. forward): third/fourth line forward, minor leaguer
          147 – Randall Gelech (6’2.5″, 206 lb. forward): minor leaguer
          148 – Chris Porter (6’1″, 210 lb. forward): depth forward

          European Skaters

          2 – Milan Michalek (6’2″, 205 lb. forward): top-6 forward
          11 – Dimitri Kosmachev (6’3″, 205 lb. defenceman): european leagues
          23 – Alexander Sulzer (6’2″, 213 lb. defenceman): depth defenceman

          The 2003 draft was exceptionally deep, and had been watched for a couple of years before 2003 because of the abnormal number of players who were ahead of the curve at each age step.

          But even with that in mind, there weren’t many impact players taken after Brent Seabrook in the first round. O’Byrne and Boyle are the best of a thoroughly mediocre lot.

          Frank hit on my main point, that past performance for kids who have matured physically faster than their peer group should be taken with a grain of salt. The job of the scouts is to decide how much of their performance is due to their talent and how much is due to the competitive advantage of just being big.

          I think that the fact that so many of these guys get drafted in later rounds is an indication that, in many cases, the scouts aren’t always sold. You are correct that you need a balance of grit and physical play, but I’m not sure that you should look for it in the form of guys who were monsters in junior hockey.

          I give guys like Tinordi a pass because of his height: 212 lbs. at 6’5″ left him with a lot of room to get stronger and more powerful as he grew into his frame.

          I’m less sold on Michael McCarron because he does not exhibit top-end skill and he’s already filled out (he’s now 235 pounds on his 6’5″ frame). What you see is what you get. Now we’ve got to hope he can learn to play hockey at an NHL level.

          Connor Crisp is the one that irks me a bit. So many here are pencilling the kid into the Habs line-up in 2-4 years when all historical evidence suggest that even making the NHL is going to be a tall order for him. He had two strikes: he was far bigger than his peers, and he was an overage draftee, having been passed over at 18 largely because of his injury.

          We all want the next Brian Bickell, who was drafted as a 6’3″ and 210 lb. forward after he scored 20 goals in 59 games as a 17 year old. What we all forget was that Bickell did not become an NHL regular until 2010, 6 full years after he was drafted. That was the second main point: McCarron and Crisp, if they ever pan out, are years away. Be patient, let them develop, and perhaps lower expectations for a while. They don’t need the extra pressure or “bust label” if they aren’t with the big club in 2-3 years.

  52. Habitant in Surrey says:

    @Uce

    …get to TicketMaster now if You want buddies to share what are called Hat Trick (3) Tickets 3 x $322 = $966

    Sect C-500-E Row 3 Seats 13 to 15

    …looking at seating chart, seems pretty high up …Club 500 (are these box seats ?)

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Okay, I see what happened there, it wouldn’t sell me a single ticket, didn’t want to break up a couple of tickets together. Kind of confusing when you enter any ticket, at all, and it tells you there’s nothing left.

      QTY
      Quantity 1
      1
      TICKET TYPE
      Ticket Type Last Seat In The House Singles
      Last Seat In The House Singles
      PRICE & SECTION
      PRICE & SECTION Best Available
      Best Available

      Sorry, no tickets match your search.
      Try changing ticket type.

      Anyway, I’m not going to spend $322 to attend a game, that would be too much like warmly embracing Gary Bettman. I was expecting to pay for a Premium game, but I don’t think I can eat enough hot dogs to justify this.

      I looked at the seating chart and can’t really find a 500 section either, you must be right, it must be a box.

  53. Chris says:

    I’ve always taken draft picks who are much larger than their peer group with a huge grain of salt. Most 17/18 year olds are in the 170-190 lb. range when drafted. Defencemen tend to be a bit heavier, often pushing 200 lbs. Occasionally, you’ll get a very powerful guy (like Pacioretty) that is pushing 205 lbs entering the draft, and those guys are very sought after if they show a modicum of skill.

    That being said, look through the 2007 final draft rankings from CSS at the guys who were over 205 pounds entering the draft:

    North American Skaters

    21 – Nicholas Pettrecki (6’3″, 213 lb. defenceman) – 1 career game
    45 – Dale Mitchell (5’9″, 207 lb. forward) – 0 career games
    57 – Brad Malone (6’1.5″, 207 lb. forward) – 22 career games
    66 – Nick Palmieri (6’2″, 212 lb. forward) – 87 career games, but trending towards career AHL’er
    72 – Alex Plante (6’3.5″, 225 lb. defenceman) – 10 career games
    73 – David Stich (6’2″, 209 lb. defenceman) – 0 career games
    74 – Justin Falk (6’5″, 215 lb. defenceman) – 108 career games, #6 defenceman
    75 – Casey Pierro-Zabotel (6’1″, 205 lb. forward) – 0 career games
    78 – Paul Thompson (6’0″, 210 lb. forward) – 0 career games
    79 – Josh Kidd (6’4.5″, 220 lb. defenceman) – 0 career games
    81 – Ian Cole (6’1″, 211 lb. defenceman) – 67 career games, spare defenceman
    93 – Eric Tangradi (6’3″, 207 lb. forward) – 81 career games, production is trending downwards
    99 – Blake Kessel (6’0.5″, 210 lb. defenceman) – 0 career games
    104 – Dwight King (6’2.75″, 218 lb. forward) – 80 career games, checking line forward
    110 – Mickey Renaud (6’2″, 217 lb. forward) – passed away at age 19
    116 – Ben Blood (6’3″, 212 lb. defenceman) – 0 career games
    125 – Juraj Valach (6’6″, 216 lb. defenceman) – 0 career games
    126 – Robert Slaney (6’2″, 205 lb. defenceman) – 0 career games
    137 – Dustin Jeffrey (6’1.25″, 205 lb. forward) – 90 career games, spare forward
    138 – Josh Franklin (5’11.5″, 210 lb. forward) – 0 career games
    140 – Tyler Kieffer (5’10.5″, 212 lb. defenceman) – 0 career games

    European Skaters
    16 – Denis Reul (6’4″, 213 lb. defenceman) – 0 career games

    We of course have to be careful about extracting too much from a list like this. More than 5 years out from the 2007 NHL draft, only Falk, King and Tangradi have made it as NHL regulars. Plante still has an outside chance, but his window is closing. None of them are impact players as of yet, and the high hopes that once existed for Tangradi have very much faded.

    The guys that are already 210+ pounds as juniors have generally filled out as much as they were going to. (Tinordi was a noteable exception, a beanpole despite his 212 lb. weight entering his draft.) They were men playing against boys, and their production as junior players reflected that massive competitive advantage. When most of those guys turned pro, they lost that advantage and simply didn’t have the skill to make up for it.

    McCarron has some skill, and he will probably make the NHL in some form. Crisp is a super-longshot…he’ll be a feel good story if he does make it, but I will be surprised if it happens. History is tilted pretty heavily against him. We all know that it was also tilted against Milan Lucic, but we should also remember that Lucic was the exception that proved the rule.

    Neither McCarron nor Crisp will be on the Canadiens roster for at least 2-3 years, and I doubt either will have any significant impact for at least 5 years. People should accept that the development of those two kids will be long and slow.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Interesting, thanks for that Chris. I posted about a month ago about a guy who studied the big, tough, defensive defencemen in the CHL, and found that they don’t tend to make it in the pros. Rather, defencemen who had some skill with the puck are the ones who evolved their game into the defensive types.

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.ca/2013/08/samuel-morin-nikita-zadorov-and.html

      Your post, and the study from “That’s Offside” blog, makes me deal with the last draft of the Canadiens a little better. I’m starting to warm to the Sven Andrighetto pick.

    • Habitant in Surrey says:

      …if We are both still ‘hangin’ out’ in HIO in 2 years, we’ll compare notes/predictions Chris on Mc Carron

      …what I have seen of McCarron I feel He will trend quite similar to Tinordi

      …only time will tell

      • Chris says:

        McCarron entered the draft as a 6’5″, 228 lb. forward that had already filled out his frame and was probably close to the size at which he will play in the NHL.

        Tinordi entered the draft as a 6’6″, 205 lb. beanpole defenceman. He obviously had a ton of physical maturation to do for his strength to catch up to his frame (he was already up to 212 lbs. according to his dad during that summer).

        I’m not sure I agree with the notion that the two players will trend similarly.

  54. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …since a kid I have been fascinated by US Presidents since Dwight D. Eisenhower, and international politics …I have never seen such a potential train-wreck a sitting President could experience as President Obama is dealing with today, effecting contemporary history as much as future history

    …I have avoided coming to HIO recently because Our conversations are so meaningless in relation to today’s international crisis with Syria

    …but after awhile One must step back from The Real World to keep One’s balance …so, earlier this morning I visited HIO for some empty-headed oxygen, to see what Our rookies are doing, and naturally some good reads from the Commentariat

    …to My surprise, and disappointment, reading the topic-de-jour seemed, when I logged-in, to be all about da Turdranna MuppleWeeds rather than Our Habs

    …so much so I thought We had been hacked by the PensionPlanPuppets evil-ones

    …glad to see We have returned to some vestiges of sanity

    …and, I’m breathing-in some very badly needed ‘oxygen’

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Chris, how did you make out? I couldn’t be at my computer, got called away this afternoon. I just checked when I got in, some single tickets left, but I held off thinking you might have scored some.

      • Habitant in Surrey says:

        …similar, Normand, I had ‘urgent family matter’ that prevented My well-laid plans for both the computer and phone

        …I was hoping You had good news

        …I will look for offers in Kijiji and Craig’s List as You recommended

        …this ‘family matter’ will become costly I estimate :(

        …if You find some source in the interval, let Me know and I will see if I can join You

        …I only need 2 seats for Myself and Quent

        PS: what are the singles going for ? …are they in same or adjacent sections if not ‘together’ ? …let’s find way to exchange personal e-mails to better coordinate

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          You can go online now and pick up some singles. I’ll pick one up for myself now, get the best available.

          ***EDIT: Actually scratch that, they’re all gone.

          If you’re on Facebook you can reach me that way, we can exchange email addresses on there.

        • Subbanarama says:

          Too bad you didn’t get the Club 500 tickets. It is a 180-seat room with incredible all-you-can-eat
          food and non-alcoholic drinks included in your ticket price. And your waiter would be a passionate Habs fan (yours truly). Hopefully the game will be as satisfying as last time the Habs came to Rogers Arena.

          un boulet de canon

          • Habitant in Surrey says:

            …I purchased the Sect 108 single ticket before I found the Club 500 option on ticketmaster …it appears to have been last single ticket available

            …then belatedly find the Hat Trick (3) option

            …I bought the ticket for My son, I will watch the game from a nearby sports-bar and meet Him at the gate after the game

            …He is upset We couldn’t watch the game together, but I will have a month to talk Him into it :)

            …He is in His grad year and I want Him in a near ice-level seat intimate with the action and a clear sight-line of the Habs, so I will stick to that ticket

            …that being said, next time, if Normand is game, Club 500 maybe what We will look at

            …let’s keep in touch :)

  55. SlovakHab says:

    Two bits on Martin Reway, our 4th round pick in 2013 (I follow him on FB and he sometimes posts stuff):

    - he is apparently sharing room with McCarron. (“Mike, can you please reach for that tape on top shelf for me, mate?”)
    - he was told by Habs they want him to play center instead of LW

  56. TheMostCupsPeriod says:

    Hey Matty,

    I saw you’re post and didn’t think that at all. Another post pissed me off so I’ve removed my info. A few HIOers contacted me and seemed happy to secure great seats at face value. In fact I’ve sold 6 games, and four of them are premium. I guess I was reminded why its safer to lurk rather than post.
    Having survived the Pricebot-Halakian War, I told myself not to post anymore…
    Seems I should have followed my own advice :)

  57. TheMostCupsPeriod says:

    Apparently I owe people here an apology because I was posting tickets at face value to members of HIO. I find the comments about trying to take people for a ride comical. I offered tickets at $215 for regular game. As a new season ticket holder I was pleased to discover the tickets only cost me 200.49 each + an admin fee of roughly 2.50 a game for total of $203. This includes the same prices I have to pay for 5 preseason games. I didn’t realize making 12 bucks a ticket was ripping off fellow habs fans, particularly considering I had to lay out cash up front. Optimum games is where one hopes to recoup costs of lost games and pre season losses. I offered tickets at what Canadiens offer tickets. I thought I was being a good guy, turns out I’m a ripoff artist.
    Again, to all, my apologies, I have removed my previous post as it was so offensive….

    Tony

    • ProHabs says:

      LOL. Some people get their panties in a knot over the funniest things. I didn’t know that being a member of HIO came with the perks of getting tickets at a lower rate from fellow HIO’s either.

    • Mattyleg says:

      Hey Tony,
      I think that you’re referencing my post.
      I wasn’t talking about you.
      I wasn’t even aware that you were offering tickets.

      I was taking issue with the people who have season tickets or who buy packs of tickets and sell them for personal profit.
      Scalpers, basically.
      I hate that sh!t, and have had huge arguments about it in the past with people who’ve done/tried to do it.

      I bought a pair of tickets in a 10-game package, and will be selling at least one of each pair to friends who come with me, and will sell at least one whole pair for games I can’t make.
      They’ll be at the $70 face value ($59 plus the unbelievable $10 ‘convenience fee’ per ticket) that I paid for them because I don’t think I should be making money on the backs of Habs fans.

      As I said, I wasn’t talking about you; had no idea you were doing it.
      Good luck with your tix.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • Lafleurguy says:

      If I had the time to get to Montreal, I would have contacted you for tickets. Don’t let some of the 1,000,000+ posts get to you, they aren’t all gems.

      “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

  58. jrshabs1 says:

    Did you really say Wickenheiser? Doug Wickenheiser who was drafted ahead of Denis Savard?

    You will see Hab fans..you will see.

    Go Habs Go!!

  59. jrshabs1 says:

    listen to the slovak…he must have must have misunderstood the English term..”he may”..which doesn’t mean ” he is”
    Sorry for being presumptous slovak..I “may” have got a little ahead of myself regarding your English skills.

    Go Habs Go!!

    • SlovakHab says:

      Thank you for helping me improve my English skills, good Sir. Let me practice this sentence pattern:

      Jeremy Gregoire – Looks like he may turn out to be a cornerstone of the franchise.
      Connor Crisp – Looks like he may turn out to be a cornerstone of the franchise.
      Colin Sullivan – Looks like he may turn out to be a cornerstone of the franchise.

      I think I am getting better at this without getting ahead of myself. I didn’t say they are – but they certainly may.

  60. Bill says:

    I like the McCarron pick a lot. But let’s stay real. The only thing McCarron gets out of this camp is a realization of how far he has to go to develop into an NHL player.

    • SlovakHab says:

      Personally, I didn’t like the pick at all at the time and from hearing bits and pieces from the first couple of days, I haven’t changed my mind.

      If we needed a huge guy with limited offensive upside, we could have just traded our first round pick for Steckel, Gaustad, Bryan Boyle or Taylor Pyatt.

      There was no need to draft such player in the first round and wait for 5 years until he hopefully reaches NHL.

      But hopefully in OHL this player will show me something more, and a reason to be optimistic.

      • ProHabs says:

        Ouch. Would not trade a first round pick for any of those guys. I am OK with the pick. There might have been a better player available but Habs have needed size on their team for the last 10 years. It is hard to get a player like Lucic, Chris Neil etc as like Bergevin said, team do not give up guys like that. Hopefully McCarron turns out to be better than Steckel, Gaustad and Boyle but who knows. It is a crap shoot.

      • Habitant in Surrey says:

        …I didn’t like the choice as a first-rounder because He’s another American who will spend the next 4 years in NCAA

        …after seeing more of Him, My initial reaction diametrically changed

        …McCarron,My gut tells Me, will trend similar to Tinordi …We will see McCarron knocking on the door in less than 2 seasons after some exposure in Hamilton

        …count on it

        …and He will be a far better hockey player than Taylor Pyatt

        …also, count on that

        • SlovakHab says:

          The only reason of my cautious optimism is Trevor Timmins. I trust him, he has shown to draft NHLers year after year.
          I will cheer for McCarron to become as good Canadiens player as he can be.
          However, I’m not buying his jersey yet and may not stick him in my fantasy Habs 2016-17 season lineup.
          Let’s see if he can produce in OHL first. Go Mike.

    • Hobie Hansen says:

      McCarron is three years away. I think he’s an NHL player. Will it be the 2nd, 3rd or 4th line though? That’s the question?

      If one day McCarron turns out to be a 3rd liner that scores 15 goals a season, kills penlites and kicks it up a notch in the playoffs, that’s a pretty good player and pick to me :-). Not to mention drops the gloves and hammers people!

      • ProHabs says:

        McCarron will be on the second line, Crisp will be on the third line and we just need to find some big goon to play on the fourth line and we will be all set.

        • SlovakHab says:

          Yeah, and with Chris Higgins (our future captain) and Mike Komisarek and his size and leadership on defence, we are set for the next few years.

          EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread – this was supposed to go to Boone’s 2004 article “Marcel Hossa hopes to follow the steps of his brother”. My bad – going to post it there :)

          • ProHabs says:

            Boone must have been drinking heavily at the time he wrote that article.

          • SlovakHab says:

            Oh, that was just a report. That was Marcel’s hopes, not Mike Boone’s.

            Edit: Having said that, Marcel played 237 NHL games. He was our second-best pick in 2000, after Ron Hainsey.

          • ProHabs says:

            Well even if that is the case, I am still sticking to my assumption that Boone was drinking heavily that day.

          • SlovakHab says:

            Well you should have read the comments in that thread then.
            People really thought we will win the cup only with Theodore in nets.
            He had 33 wins and 91.9% SV that season.

  61. Mattyleg says:

    I’d like to post a comment here.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  62. jrshabs1 says:

    The big kid had a lot of haters when he was drafted. Looks like he may turn out to be a cornerstone of the franchise. Have the Habs ever drafted a player with so much upside? If so…who?

    Go Habs Go!!

  63. HabFab says:

    And replace who?

  64. B says:

    As an Als fan, I would rather see him walking the field today for the Als. ;)

    –Go Habs Go!–

  65. Maritime Ronn says:

    You are a lucky person to have attended a Super Bowl.
    After researching the cost over the past few years of tickets, flights, and hotel at a SB venue, I came to the following conclusions as to affordability:
    -Win the Lottery
    -Hope for an inheritance
    -Pull a John Dillinger
    -Reverse house mortgage

  66. HabinBurlington says:

    New Orleans = The Super Bowl City, funnest city in all America!


Leave a Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.