Max signs

And then there was one: Carey Price

Lapierre wanted term, got one year – Richard Labbé

• RDS says Goldenberg is gone

• NHL players want Donald Fehr

• Having matched San Jose’s offer to Niklas Hjalmarsson, the Stanley Cup champions have 15 players signed and $113,400 in cap space for six more. Who’s next to go? Pierre LeBrun  thinks Brian Campbell, Patrick Sharp. And Antti Niemi is going to arbitration

• SI has a slide show on biggest NHL contracts. Scott Gomez is 13th … and they show him in a Rangers uni!

• Another SI slide show: NHL celebrity WAGs, leading off with Mike Fisher and Carrie Underwood. No current Canadiens on the list, but Sheldon Souray and Valeri Bure make it

Shout-out to Kevin van Steendelaar for finding this hilarious video from Wayne Gretzky’s golf tournament

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308 Comments

  1. bwoar says:

    Yes, all those chances they gave him to actually DO something were so unfair!

  2. KenD29 says:

    And December, January, February, March and April !

     

    Tonight we skate with them, Tonight is our night!

  3. yathehabsrule says:

    This is something I put together, back in April, on how that all went down.

    ___________________________________________

    Ya! The Habs Rule! now on Twitter!

  4. ed lopaz says:

    not dishonest???

    any good GM would have waited for draft day.

    which would have given him more trade leverage.

    Gauthier blew that call very, very badly.

  5. ed lopaz says:

    Yes – I said the organisation was “lacking” – because last year they hung Lapierre out to dry.

  6. hasboon says:

    mason signed in ATL

  7. andrewberkshire says:

    As always you miss the point, but I can’t say I’m surprised. I could care less that you don’t share my opinion, it’s how you state your opinion that bothers me. It’s ad nauseum, the same thing every day. Every minor move is the end of the world, and you present everything you say as inarguable fact, and call anyone who disagrees with you immature. The only reason I continue to engage you in conversation is in hoping that one day you’ll put your intelligence to good use on this site, and write some good comments for once. Nothing to do with your opinion, everything to do with your self righteous representation.

  8. TripleX says:

    Please do yourself a favor and read he entirety of the thread.  At what point does it become argumentative and childish.

    Look in the mirror, the reflection might surprise and slightly embarrass you.

    I come on HIO to state my opinion which is often diametrically in opposition to your own.  As I have mentioned to you many times Andrew that is the substance of life.  People will not always share your viewpoints but it is not a reason to become insulting.  Agree to disagree and move on.

    A difference of opinion is not a challenge to your intellect and who you might be in this world.  An exchange of ideas can be rewarding and an education for both sides if they are willing to listen.  You take it as a cage match where any opposing viewpoints must be crushed and made to grovel.

     

     

    “And I am really looking forward to watching Michael Cammalleri in the NHL. He had an awesome year in the AHL.” PIERRE McGUIRE

  9. andrewberkshire says:

    When you have to sign Plekanec by July 1st, you don’t want to wait around to get your other deals done.

    To pretend it’s as simplistic as the Halak deal being the only thing Gauthier was dealing with is a little dishonest, don’t you think?

  10. bwoar says:

    You still sum up by blaming the org and pointing to a problem with pro development.  Don’t be disingenuous, you were very clear (and by clear I mean you straddled the fence) right up until the end where you claimed the org was at fault.

  11. Mark C says:

    Not at all, my point is management by trading Halak, gave if any at all, only a slight amount of leverage to Price. I also, believe that signing Price first and then trading Halak, could have slightly weaked PG’s trading position, among other issues. In short, no matter how PG dealt with this situation there were going to give and takes.

    Found anymore Price-like goalies who signed deals with an AAV of 1.5 million?

     

  12. andrewberkshire says:

    Colloquialism doesn’t equal definition. The definition of liberal has not changed, only the way uneducated ignoramuses use it has.

    Neo-conservatism will always refer to a political ideology where military force and coercion is used to exert influence in other countries under the guise of “nation building”. It’s actually a deviation from liberal concepts, which was called conservative as a scathing criticism by less aggressive liberals.

    And Pipes is just a greeaaaat resource to send people to. He’s a quack.

  13. joeybarrie says:

    I think price is still eligible for bonus’…So we sign him under or at 2 million a season in cap and he gets an extra million or so if he performs well. Still fits under our cap, and doesn’t cost us the farm if he still plays decent… If and when he plays to his capabilities it still costs less than Halak. Win, Win, Win…

    There may be other teams, but only ONE Club De Hockey…

  14. bwoar says:

    It is not both. Sorry Ed, I like your posts but I can’t agree at all here.  Allow me the conceit of mentioning 7 years direct team-building and project management (while also being a key player doing the work.) 

    A smart manager knows what roles he needs to accomplish the goal, and sets out to find people who best fill those roles.  You seem to think that it’s up to the Habs to tell Max what kind of player to be.  Thing is, they drafted the kid originally, and at that time made a judgment on what kind of player he was.

    If the brass were asking players to change the way they play (for instance Carbo asking Gui to backcheck) then it’s setting up a failure.  If they needed a guy to backcheck, why use Latendresse, who’s never been any good at it?

    It’s the same for Lapierre.  3rd and 4th line roles are simple: agitate, don’t take dumb penalties, stay on the puck in all zones with energy and brio.  Cash in 10-15 goals (my personal opinion on 3rd line centres is 13-15 goals minimum, but that’s not necessarily how the org sees it.)  Lapierre seems like the right guy for that right role.  But after last year he’s been asked to prove it.

    Is that really such a stretch?  Why the whole mismanagement red herring?

  15. andrewberkshire says:

    And here’s where you don’t understand what you’re quoting from wikipedia. I wasn’t belittling you, nor are you my opponent, I was questioning your experience on the matter seeing as how you seem to moan and cry about every single managerial decision the Habs have made since you’ve come onto this site. Now if you can’t take me questioning where your coming from when you make a claim, then stop being so damn argumentative because it sounds like you’re running home crying instead of standing up for yourself.

    Or in short, if you can’t handle the fire, get out of the kitchen. You love to dish it out, but when someone comes back at you all you do is try to act all proper and disengage while telling other people that they’re less than you are. Grow up.

  16. ed lopaz says:

    Nice rant.

    Not even remotely close to what I said, however.

    I was very clear.

    Player – max lapierre – responsibility to work hard and produce

    Team – Habs – responsibility to define consistent, clear, expectations of player

    BOTH are responsible, not exclusively the player.

     

     

  17. andrewberkshire says:

    Hahaha Pat Buchanen IS a neo-con!!! You clearly don’t have a ***ing clue what you’re talking about. And Cindy Sheehan is about as relevant as the kleenex I blow my noes into.

  18. TripleX says:

    And you seem to think the consideration that management might have actually made an error is an improbability.

    ps it is a very long thread with several sub categories

    “And I am really looking forward to watching Michael Cammalleri in the NHL. He had an awesome year in the AHL.” PIERRE McGUIRE

  19. Mark C says:

    And here I thought your original argument was that Price gained leverage when Halak got traded. Now it is PG cant sign Price long-term because of his budgeting.

    Maybe PG doesn’t want to give Price a long-term contract or Price might not want long terms. There is so much info we don’t know.

    You write a lot about logic and supply and demand, you should also consider probability analysis. Just because management has made it appear to look like they consider Price to be the franchise, does not preclude them from considering the possibility he does not become that player.  

     

  20. TripleX says:

    “to belittle the opponent in order to invalidate the arguments”

     

    “And I am really looking forward to watching Michael Cammalleri in the NHL. He had an awesome year in the AHL.” PIERRE McGUIRE

  21. andrewberkshire says:

    You have no clue what you’re talking about. The word Neo-con has been around for decades.

  22. TripleX says:

    The usage of the term “neo-con” by certain factions in US politics and the underlying meanings to it is obvious to anyone willing to listen. 

     

     

    “And I am really looking forward to watching Michael Cammalleri in the NHL. He had an awesome year in the AHL.” PIERRE McGUIRE

  23. bwoar says:

    What hogwash.  The guy just isn’t all that good.  The org wants to see if he is as bad as last year or as good as he was with his pal Gui.  Ed you ought to know better than take 2 comments entirely out of context and attach your own opinion to link the two.  It isn’t a solid basis for argument.

    Let’s take Toms quote (gag)…. tell me, what is the difference between an agitator and a physical bottom 6 checker?  Honestly, nothing whatsoever, other than an agitator is a physical bottom 6 checker who runs his mouth.

    And by physical, let’s not kid ourselves, after 3 years no one on the Habs brass is expecting Lapierre to go out and kill guys with hits.  Seriously, you are setting up a great big straw man so that you can play your (and others’) favorite record, “The Habs can’t manage their own players”.

    Imagine Lapierre scored 13 goals last year.  Now imagine a 3 year deal for 3-4m do we need to have this discussion?

    It’s incredible how far out of your way you guys will go to try and make every decision that management makes into a big mistake, a lost opportunity or proof of an organizational deficiency.

    Lapierre is not part of the nucleus, and for good reason, he is easily replaceable.  Bubble player, bubble team.  The nucleus, outside of Price, are all signed long term.  So Lapierre gets a year to show that he is not an interchangeable part. The brass, like the rest of us, want to see if he can commit to being the player he was in the playoffs.  It really is that simple.  That IS the direction they have given him.  It is up to him to live up to it now.

    Others will get their shot if he doesn’t come through, and they know it (e.g. White).  Certainly if Lapierre spends his whole season crapping the bed again, and doesn’t lose his job to a Ryan White type, I will join you on the organizational stupidity bandwagon.  But let’s not give Maxim Lapierre a free pass to get out of the way so you guys can bash the org baselessly.

  24. andrewberkshire says:

    And have you? That’s an incredibly relevant question. And not at all an ad hominem.

  25. andrewberkshire says:

    Maybe you should jog your memory to 1996-2004.

  26. TripleX says:

     

    “You keep talking about competent management like you’ve ever managed anything in your life.”


    “And I am really looking forward to watching Michael Cammalleri in the NHL. He had an awesome year in the AHL.” PIERRE McGUIRE

  27. Mark C says:

    Tony, neo-con dates back to the 1960’s.

  28. TripleX says:

    Well it all goes back to my original argument that because of PG’s bungling he as effectively priced himself out of making a long term offer to Price.  The Habs can’t afford a 3 million dollar cap hit.

    If your numbers are close, then the only option for PG is to offer a short term contract.  That would in my mind be a failure.  Why?  Because if Price is the “franchise” and you have publicly made it known to everyone,the logical course of action is to lock him up long term.

    ps I thought all you pro trade Halak guys said the reasoning was that Price would be FAR cheaper to keep   3-4 million?  huh?

    “And I am really looking forward to watching Michael Cammalleri in the NHL. He had an awesome year in the AHL.” PIERRE McGUIRE

  29. andrewberkshire says:

    Exactly! Why do some people (TripleX) refuse to use common sense and the laws of supply and demand when considering the Halak deal?

  30. andrewberkshire says:

    And in that original comment you’ll find nothing that fits that description. I said you never stop bitching, that’s not an ad hominem. I said “use your brain”, also not an ad hominem. If you want to try to sound educated, I suggest you learn the meaning of these logical fallacies before using them.

    An ad hominem would be like me saying “TripleX is a liar, therefore we can’t believe anything he says.” In some conversations ad hominems are appropriate, however if you’re stating an opinion then they are not.

  31. ed lopaz says:

    He created a shortage of goaltending throughout the organisation.

    At least, he should have insisted on receiving a young goalie in return.

    Its not like goaltending is a position of strength.

    We have Price (?), Auld (not at all a fan), Sanford (?), Desjardins (?),

    As I’ve said in the past, in all my years following this team, I can not remember this team having less

    talent at the goaltending position.

     

  32. andrewberkshire says:

    Uh, no it wasn’t. But I don’t know why I’m talking to you Tony.

  33. Mark C says:

    Steve Mason is still on his entry level deal http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=622

    Point is, 1.5 million is your number, just don’t pass it off as an established market value because it is not.

    It’s hard to really set an amount with Price, he is somewhat of an outlier, as your lack of finding comparables attests too. A 1 year deal at AAV 2-3 million seems fine with me, or a 2-4 year deal at AVV at 3-4 would be livable. In the end, I’m not really sure how much he should get, but its more than 1.5 million, that much is clear. 

     

  34. santeri says:

    Ask the sharks and wings what mediocore goaltending got them

    For the Wings: mediocre and very very cheap goaltending got them two Cups since ’98 (that is, Osgood in ’98 and ’08 – the ’97 and ’02 Cups were won with fabulous goaltending by Vernon and Hasek, respectively).

  35. punkster says:

    I like this view Bugs. He’s an agitator who needs to be agitatin’ more. Shows his best when he’s on the other guys nerves.

    FREE TIMO!

  36. TripleX says:

     


    Ad hominem abusive

    Ad hominem abusive usually involves insulting or belittling one’s opponent in order to invalidate their argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent’s argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent’s personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent’s arguments or assertions.

     

     

     

    “And I am really looking forward to watching Michael Cammalleri in the NHL. He had an awesome year in the AHL.” PIERRE McGUIRE

  37. ed lopaz says:

    andrew,

    maybe if Gauthier wanted some “leverage” in his trade talks, he could have waited until at least the

    draft to make the trade?

    when you get 30 teams in the same room, discussing trades, you usually increase your leverage, do you not?

  38. TripleX says:

    Steve Mason at 1.3 million.

    Look, you don’t agree with me fine.  

    How much do YOU think Price should get and what term?

    What salary would you consider overpaying?

    I have made it clear anything over 1.5 million on a one year is overpaying.

     

     

    “And I am really looking forward to watching Michael Cammalleri in the NHL. He had an awesome year in the AHL.” PIERRE McGUIRE

  39. TripleX says:

    Exactly!  Why do some people refuse to use common sense and the laws of supply and demand?  When PG traded away Halak he purposely created a shortage in starting goalies in Montreal.  How is that not obvious?

     

    “And I am really looking forward to watching Michael Cammalleri in the NHL. He had an awesome year in the AHL.” PIERRE McGUIRE

  40. Mark C says:

    ONE? One goalie sets the market? Talk about small sample size. Rask had a much better seaon than Price, but it doesn’t matter because Rask signed his deal last November 5th, meaning he had only played 9, 9 NHL games when he signed! So, Rask’s season has very little to do with Price and his contract.

    Considering Rask as an example sets Price’s low end of the bar at least 1.5 million.

    http://bruins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=504962

  41. SLONCOLD says:

    lol price is going to get some serious coin lol…. put it this way, what are our options? mason, theo, turco? really?

     

  42. andrewberkshire says:

    If a comment is worth disparaging you can count on my to disparage it. Unfortunately for you that entails most of your comments.


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