‘I’m a pretty simple player,’ newest Hab Murray says

The newest member of the Canadiens describes himself as “a pretty simple player.”

“What you see is what you get,” defenceman Douglas Murray told Canadiens.com on Friday, a day after being signed to a one-year, $1.5-million free-agent contract. “In order for me to be successful, I need to defend really well, number one, and (I need to) be a big, physical presence out there.

“I definitely have a (will) to win and I bring a lot of competitiveness,” added the 6-foot-3, 245-pound Swede. “It’s nothing flashy; I don’t think anyone has ever used that word to describe me as a player. I’m a steady player and the excitement probably comes from the physicality department.

“I have a lot of experience with (penalty killing) and I’ve played a lot of different systems. Obviously, you need great penalty killers and people who are willing to block shots, which I definitely am. It’s important to have a lot of pride in killing penalties. I love shutting the opposition down – maybe it’s because I’ve never scored many goals, but I think I almost enjoy that more.”

Josh Gorges, who played with Murray earlier in his career with the San Jose Sharks, was thrilled to become his teammate again.

“Welcome to former and new teammate Douglas Murray!!!” Gorges tweeted. “You guys are gonna love this beast in #Mtl #BigRig”

Gorges, who got married earlier this summer to Maggie Morrison in Hawaii, will be in Washington state on Saturday for the wedding of goalie Carey Price and his fiancée, Angela Webber. Price won’t have time for a honeymoon, since he will report the next day to Team Canada’s Olympic orientation camp in Calgary, along with P.K. Subban, who will also be at the goaltender’s wedding.

(Photo by Dilip Vishwanat/Getty Images)

Big, bad Habs, Canadiens.com

Newest Hab Murray: Swedish, smart, but not Cranky, by Pat Hickey

Ten players who could surprise by making Team Canada, montrealgazette.com

Former Hab Grabovski signs with Capitals, montrealgazette.com

Luongo considered voiding his Canucks contract, NHL.com


  1. SlovakHab says:

    Someone below mentioned Francis Bouillon on 2nd powerplay unit.

    I read somewhere that PP with Bouillon on ice haven’t scored the whole season. Is that what we want?

    Markov, PK, Diaz are set on PP. Murray, Bouillon, Drewiske and Tinordi shouldn’t come anywhere near it.
    Nygren has one of the best shots in the organization, shall he make the team out of camp we are sweet on PP. Beaulieu should be ready after the trade deadline, when we hopefully reduce the number of D for future assets. Otherwise we’ll run with Gorges and Emelin as a second PP unit option.

    Would be nice to get a 2-3rd rounder for one of the bottom pairing d-men. We have way too many of those.

    • Dunboyne Mike says:

      Yeah, saw that. Always liked Frankie, but definitely not on the PP. Even though I believe him to be a good passer of the puck. It’s that exploiting the man-advantage requires more.

      (However, note my hesitation if someone asks who’d I prefer with Diaz on 2nd PP pairing, Frankie or DD….)

    • Mark C says:

      Not sure where anyone got that no PP goals were scored with Bouillon on the ice. He was on the ice for 8 PP goals, which is as many as any Montreal defenseman not named Markov or Subban. This is not a vote in favor for Frankie on the PP, just that Montreal scored goals with him on the ice.

    • Hstands4Hockey says:

      Boullion had a sub-par season last year but he also played way outside his comfort zone due to injures and general lack of depth. He played a lot of minutes, usually on the wrong side and often with rookie defense man. I’d say he did okay considering.

      I don’t see Tinordi or Bealieau starting the season in the NHL. I love the Murray signing because it doesn’t force us to rush there guys up.

      Rule #76: No Excuses, Play Like a Champion!

  2. Dunboyne Mike says:

    Back from Cavan, great day. And thanks for optical advice MR, 2ndTh and Cal. About descending stairs: I’ve stopped trying to look, instead opting to be like Luke and “use the Force”!

    Wow some weird posts today! It looked to me like Adidesse was utterly misconstrued by those who replied to his very considered post about Price’s Olympic prospects. The exchanges that ensued seemed like a series of misreadings and replies.

    Then, weirder still, the suggestion that sometimes things get too cozy here? That people aren’t actually posting what they think but what they think will create consensus? Or make them popular??!! Maybe it was my turn to misread, but was it implied that just getting down to discussing hockey, and posters experiencing a sense of connection with other posters, ought to be mutually exclusive?

    On the other hand, lots of good chat about defensive pairings and call-ups etc. Ye propose so well, I just swing from one well-argued pairing to the next!

    (Not sure about Markov and Murray though: two slow Ds on at once, no? And no one else biting on Chris’s provocative proposal of PK and Cube. If Cube could handle the minutes, I believe the match has merit. But maybe Chris was only stirring!)

    To bed. New job starting on the morrow. Not wishing ye good night because I don’t want to be branded “cozy”!

    (Timo, my cake?)

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Get some healthful rest Meath Mike, and answer this tomorrow:
      What IS popular BBQ fare in Ireland?
      If you say Alberta beef, I’ll understand.
      If you say pulled pork poutine, I’ll understand.

      “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        No 10,
        Turned out not to be a BBQ! There was a massive curry and umpteen salads and all 27 grandchildren!

        BBQs at my house serve pure Irish beef from trusted local butcher in the village. Also chicken fillets and huge weird sausages.

        And, for the first time, cases of Molson Canadian!

        And a confession: what’s pulled pork? (Here, not too long ago, going out “cruising” was called “going out on the pull”. So I’m wondering is your poutine part of the answer to a joke involving Kermit the Frog?…

        (Are there any butcher’s shops left in Canada? When we visit, my wife hates buying meet in supermarkets, styrofoam with plastic wrap, 100s of miles from where the beast was killed. You can find our guy by doing a google satellite search for Etherton’s Dunboyne! It’s a real village, just a crossroad with four pubs, two churches and a few shops and hairdressers.)

        • Lafleurguy says:

          Pulled pork (with apologies to experts on this), are large portions of pork roasts, smoked and slow roasted and pulled apart by hand and previously served as a gourmet sandwich. In this era of fusion cuisine, or anything goes, pulled pork has been used as an accompaniment to poutine, much to the chagrin of poutine purists.

          And the Jailer Man, and Sailor Sam, were searching everyone….for the
          XXXX On the Run. Rest well.
          “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

        • on2ndthought says:

          Markov and Murray both play the left side as well. Not the kind of players you want to see on their off wing.

          Every town still has a butcher shop or two, not many buy their meats there, though.

          “a cannonading drive”

        • on2ndthought says:

          County Meath?

          “a cannonading drive”

    • punkster says:

      Mike…graduated bifocals…I’ve worn them for 6 years, one pair for night driving, watching TV/movies, indoor sports events and another pair of sunglasses for day driving, golf, skiing, fishing etc. Separate set of reading glasses for books, computer and splitting atoms.

      Took me a couple of days to get used to them but never had a problem since. Make sure the lenses are large enough to handle the progressive change smoothly.

      Still SUBBANGIN’ BABY…

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Good night Mike. See ya on the flip side.

  3. frontenac1 says:

    @ABhabsfan. Was watching Delaet today at the Saloon. He is really getting close this year eh? What the heck was up with Tiger and his back today? He was starting to look like a soccer player out there.

    • ABHabsfan says:

      Tiger needs an excuse for not winning. There is always a very logical explanation why he doesn’t win. This week it was the mattress at the hotel was too soft. I like Tiger and I like to watch him play golf at a level that can be beyond anyone else, but the dude has no balls.

      “man, I love winnin’; you know, it’s like better than losin’?”-
      Ebby Calvin “Nuke” Laloosh

      • Lafleurguy says:

        Tiger understandably has the sophistication of an adolescent, because what he strived for in those formative years unlocked the gate to unimaginable success, fame, and wealth. Why change a winning formula? But Tiger has a foundation that does charity work, and on the basis of that alone, he supercedes any of the Rock Stars that many like to idolize. I easily notice Tiger’s immaturity and egocentricity, but again, he has funnelled millions toward opportunity for kids. Peace/Out.

        “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

  4. frontenac1 says:

    @djtnt. Bienvenidos amigo! Keep yer head up!

  5. ABHabsfan says:

    So Graham Delaet shoots a sweet 65 today to get a tie for 2nd at the Barclays. Moves himself way up to 7th in the Fed Ex Cup standings. He now has a great shot at getting to the Tour Championship in Atlanta. This is great for Canadian golf as no Canadian has made it to the Tour Championship since Weir (who won it once). If you re even a casual golf fan you should give this guy a look, he is carrying the flag for Canadian golf these days and he hits it a bloody mile! Pretty good for a kid from Weyburn Sask

    “man, I love winnin’; you know, it’s like better than losin’?”-
    Ebby Calvin “Nuke” Laloosh

  6. frontenac1 says:

    The Swiss guys never impressed me BUT…. I can see the talent in Diaz. I sh#t on him sometimes because he doesn’t use it. If he’s not going to rack up points consistently he is useless. I’m hoping for a Streit type breakout year from him. If not, cut bait.

    • Max_Hab_Fan says:

      Interesting. Any thoughts on Nyren? I’m looking forward to seeing him at the camps. He could be a surprise. SEL defenceman of the year I believe.
      Shoots right and has a rocket of a shot.
      The real problem is we don’t have a #2 defenceman. Not sure who is up to the task of playing the #2 minutes.
      Subban is #1 and Markov, Emelin, Diaz and Gorges fall in the #3-#4-#5 slots.
      Murray and the cube as #6.
      Drewiske as spare.
      Depending on their camps Tinordi, Nygren and Beaulieu might develop better in Hamilton.
      Add in Ellis, Patteryn and Dietz and it’s a good situation to be in.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Are we hunting Bruins or trawling for Sharks? For Red Wings, and Flyers, Jim’s livestock may work as bait. Not sure about Penguins. The way to bait Senators is to wave some 100s in front of their faces and they’ll follow you anywhere.

      “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

    • B says:

      Diaz was only 16th among NHL D in ppg last season. It is doubtful, however, that he will see much 1st wave PP time this coming season behind Markov and Subban. I wonder who will be the other D with him on the 2nd wave PP?

      –Go Habs Go!–

  7. DJTNT says:

    Hello to everyone at HIO !! ive been following for many years and finally got the courage to make an account and to talk hockey with everyone !! as someone who’s watched from the sidelines for long I say lets talk hockey and leave the politics and blue jays out of here ! cheers

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Welcome aboard! Glad you finally decided to join us. Look forward to your post. CHeers!

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Glad you joined us!

    • DJTNT says:

      thanks guys !!

    • Ron says:

      Welcome on side Terry, hope you enjoy but if you expect the group too just talk hockey it isn’t going to happen. The politics, baseball, food, religion and a multitude of others all get tossed across the board at anytime here. Maybe as the season starts things will pick up on the hockey end. If not then you always have the option to go back to the sidelines. Hope you stick around and who knows maybe you can come up with a few good literature reads that the folks here would like. Welcome 😀

      • DJTNT says:

        Yeah Ron i figured , traditionally the rookie never gets his say ! but on the other hand thats what makes this site unique is that everyone is very tight knit and its good to be open to other things besides hockey right ? haha

        • Ron says:

          Unique it is for sure Terry. One might be new to the site but nobody is a rookie when it comes to thier love of the Habs. That’s what makes this such a blockbuster when it comes to page hits. So jump right in and get the feet wet..

    • Lafleurguy says:

      I see Habfan 10912 was FIRST! to welcome you, beating Burly by a nose. This is a bigger honor than getting the 1,000,001st post.

      “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

  8. habs001 says:

    Habs have 7 D right now plus Emelin …What if one or maybe two of the kids on d have an unbelievable camp?…or is it no matter what they do they will not make the team?…

    • Lafleurguy says:

      They would have pulled off a Galchenyuk then. Or you could say they Gallagher’d their way onto the team.

      “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

    • Phil C says:

      Dudley talked about this in an interview last year. I am paraphrasing but he said if you plan on a rookie making the team and he has a poor camp and is not ready, you are really in a bad spot. He said its better to have veterans in place, but if a kid comes to camp and plays his way onto the team, then you deal with that problem via trade or waivers. This is a much better problem to have than the other way around. He said he did that a few times in Atlanta, most recently with Burmistrov, who had a great camp so they had to find a place for him.

      • Habfan10912 says:

        I love the explanation which you’ve provided. I was originally a little disappointed in the acquisition of Murray as I wanted Tinordi to stick with the club.
        My disappointment had nothing to do with Murray as I’d much rather see him playing some tougher minutes than Frankie B or Diaz.
        Someone said the seemingly surplus of defenseman we have is a good thing indeed. Certainly is.

    • Hobie Hansen says:

      Very interested to see what Tinordi looks like in a few weeks. He looked pretty good last spring and he will eventually be twice the defenceman someone like Gorges or Bouillon is today.

  9. mirak2959 says:

    The addition of 3 new players is going to make everyone better on this team. Guys like DD and White will need to step it up or they may be playing somewhere else. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a trade midway through the season.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Others may disagree with you, but I don’t.

      “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

    • Habfan10912 says:

      After Price, there is no player more polarizing than DD. It will be very interesting to see the leeway MT gives him this year. There were times last season where IMO DD was given favorable assignments even though his play did not warrant it.
      There is little argument that he had a poor season last season. I hope he’s held accountable for his play this season.

      • on2ndthought says:

        DD will always get favorable assignments as long as he is on the team. You have a small, skilled, play-making center, what assignments are you going to give him? If his line-mates are able to give him some room to move, and are able to bury their chances, he will have a good year. Otherwise he will repeat last year- not horrible, but not favorable. I’m not sure he can be a third or fourth line center (though I’d love to see him try with Prust and Gally on the third line, or Moen and White on the fourth), so if Eller and Chuck move to center, DD may have no choice but to move to wing.

        “a cannonading drive”

    • Nice Avatar! I thought I might have been sleep posting until I saw your username. 😉


  10. frontenac1 says:

    Tarnasky is a tough bugger. He will scrap with anyone. He doesn’t win that many but he is crazy and won’t get killed. I think he could be a crowd pleaser.

  11. Ncognito says:

    Barring other injuries, I would suggest the following until Emelin is back;

    Subban Gorges: Markov won’t last 82 games going minute for minute with Subban)
    Markov Murray: Second pair minutes will suit Markov better and he will turn Murray into a $5 million Dman – see Komasarik 😉
    Diaz Boullion:

    • Habs4LifeInTO says:

      Problem there is both Murray and Markov are lefties. One of them would have to play off wing. Maybe that isn’t a big consideration but that was my thinking for throwing this out for comment…

      24 cups and counting….

      • Ncognito says:

        True – with only 2 right shots expected to make the team someone will be playing off wing as Emelin does. It will be interesting to see how this shapes up. The PP should be fine though – with a L/R for both top units.
        Markov with Subban and Gorges/Cube with Diaz. If a couple of the right shooting kids surprise this will get interesting.

  12. Habs4LifeInTO says:

    Looking at possible d pairings for the period Emelin will be out here’s what I hope to see barring anymore unforeseen changes:

    Markov Subban
    Georges Diaz
    Murray Nygren


    Since Nygren was the defenceman of the year in the SHL this past year he would have to have the inside track on the other prospects I would think based on experience and the fact he shoots right. He has the mobility to mitigate the slow footedness of his D partner with a rocket from the point for good measure.

    Habs would have offense, skill and crease clearing ability (Let’s pretend Georges has added at least 10 lbs of muscle over the summer) on every pairing. This might not be too bad. Tinordi, Beaulieu and Pateryn can play valuable minutes in the AHL for a little longer which won’t hurt. When Emelin comes back he slides in on the second pairing with Andre and the D adds that toughness. Georges plays with PK and it is decided at that time whether Diaz slides along side Murray or gets moved for a draft pick based on how well both he and Nygren have played. Maybe keep the depth for playoffs if possible.

    24 cups and counting….

    • JTT says:

      Nygren could possibly put up 20-30 points

    • on2ndthought says:

      If Nygren or Tinordi start with the big club, they will have to have outstanding rookie and training camps. The Murray signing sends the message ‘we will develop from within PATIENTLY.

      I’m not alone thinking pairing Markov with Subban to start the year puts too much wear and tear on Markov.
      If Nygren IS NHL ready, it creates a real logjam once Emelin gets back.

      “a cannonading drive”

    • Harditya says:

      What about Drewiske though? He recently received a 2 year contract extension. Bouillon would have to be moved unless Habs are fine carrying 8 defensemen on the cap. 9 of them, once Emelin returns.

      • Habs4LifeInTO says:

        I’ll bet Drewiskie is pure depth and only used if there is an injury. He’s a lefty and may be unlikely to supplant any of those ahead of him on the depth chart unless someone goes down with an injury (or suspension in Murray’s case :))…

        24 cups and counting….

    • DJTNT says:

      I like how Murray and Nygren are paired together both swedish make things easy for the kid , because he most definitely is going to be a PP specialist for us in the near future

      • Habs4LifeInTO says:

        That’s a good point that I forgot to mention. Might work, eh? Of course Nygren would have to have a good camp and all that. I see him as someone MB needs to see in action. He has already played against men and could be ready to play in the NHL. And as you say he and Murray are both Swedish so Murray may pay special attention when watching his back and mentoring him.

        24 cups and counting….

  13. frontenac1 says:

    @Burly. Hope you did better against that Bruin Fan then I did against Mrs. Front last week amigo.

  14. HabinBurlington says:

    Noticed some Price talk on today’s thread. I golfed this morning with a Bruins fan, he told me he hopes/expects Price to be the starting goalie for Canada. He also mentioned what a good signing the Habs made in Douglas Murray. He said he is concerned about his Bruins playing the Habs this season.

    Just an fyi is all…

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Price has had a decent career so far and many of us were baffled by his play for the last two months of last season. I also have him penned in as one of my current favourite Hab, and I just sit back and take in the abuse when I posted sincere critique of his struggles in that two month period. Oh well, I could have been Sportfan and possessed the 1,000,001st post.

      “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

    • Marc10 says:

      With Iggy in Boston, having Murray in the lineup won’t hurt. Here’s hoping he comes into camp in shape.

  15. DDO_Habs_Fan says:

    Against fighting in principle but, as Frotenac suggested, wouldn’t mind to see Tarnasky called up for some games. A road game in Ottawa would be nice. Would love to see the walrus’s and Niel’s faces when Therrien puts Prust, Tarnasky, Parros, Murray and Tinordi on the ice…

    “You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin

    • JTT says:

      Tarnasky – not a good fighter. He’ll fight but He won’t scare the tough Guys in the NHL. If he went up against Neil or Kassian of Ottawa he’d be killed. Against lightweights. He’d probably hold his own …

  16. Maritime Ronn says:

    Un Canadien errant said:
    We really should get P.K. an Expos hat…. Heck, maybe even a vintage Royals hat. But the Yankees hat has to go.

    @ UCe

    Here is what bothers me about that ‘subliminal’ Yankees hat thingy you mentioned.

    It would be hard to argue that PK is not a ‘New York Kinda Guy’ potentially hanging out with Jeter and Eli in Gotham, and scoring mega contracts with that gazillion dollar smile and personality…which leads to a possible Habs Armageddon Scenario.

    That scenario becomes:
    PK has 2 more years of RFA status after this year, yet next time around with Arbitration Rights… where Habs Management cannot dictate terms that would easily fetch him +$7M per year based on RFA jurisprudence of a Weber as an example.

    What if he ever says, ” You know what guys? I love ya, but I’m not signing more than 2 years-or 1 year at a time, and I want to get to UFA status and check out what the UFA market will be in the Summer 2016.”
    And that is his complete CBA Right.

    At that time (barring some world financial meltdown…) the Cap Ceiling should be around $80M, where a CBA max. salary of 20% would move to $16M.
    If PK waits until then, perhaps risking some long term financial guarantees via a 7 year Habs contract this year ($52M-$56M), he could theoretically fetch a 6 year/ $80M contract in summer 2016….in Manhattan +++.

    Sure the Habs could trade him if it ever got to that, but a scenario such as that would rank up there with ” Blue Monday” in Montreal.

  17. HardHabits says:

    That’s why you’re an A-lister front!!!

  18. sweetmad says:

    I love our Carey but I don’t think it would do him any harm to go the Eller route.If you look at the man before you look at the player,you get a greater insight,into what you have.

    Now this has to be conjecture, on my part, because I have never met Carey.But he strikes me as a bit of a perfectionist,and whatever he does he wants to do well,he loves hockey,but hates fame.
    if this is the case he needs help to cope with it.

    Hockey players have a pretty strict routine, they have to adhere to,so there is no time, that they can just let go and be themselves.
    Especially some one like Carey,who obviosly hates the lime light,but it comes with the terriorty.Carey wants to be the best, loves what he does,but if he doesn’t get help to coping with fame, we will never see the best of him here.He will be at his best in a not so hockey mad place,and I really don’t want that to happen.

    Just take Roy, now I never watched him play,but it seems to me he had a hard time in Montreal,and was much more on an even keel, when he went to the Aves,now I know he was always a hot head,but I have never heard,that he was as bad elsewhere.

    For Carey always being compared to Roy, must be really disheartening,and I think must hinder him,in his development as a player.How would you like to be compared to a saint every day,Carey is not Roy,just let him be himself,you never know he might suprise you.

    • on2ndthought says:

      You are talking sports psychologist, are you not sweetmad? That is something management should look at. I imagine the goalie coach must be somewhat a psychologist; goal-tending is the position most known for flakes and thinkers, and there is so much one on one (or two) work that goes on between them.

      Unless you meant conditioning, but I don’t think that’s an issue.

      “a cannonading drive”

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      Bud MacPherson (1951-1957)
      Wally Clune (1956)
      Jacques Deslauriers (1956)
      Jerry Wilson (1957)
      Albert Langlois (1958)
      Jack Bownass (1958)
      Ian Cushenan (1959)
      Reggie Fleming (1960)
      Gilles Tremblay (1961-1967)
      Lucien Grenier (1969-1970)
      Howie Glover (1969)
      Marc Tardif (1970)
      Larry Mickey (1970)
      Fran Huck (1970)
      Guy Charron (1970)
      Leon Rochefort (1971)
      Chuck Lefley (1972)
      Randy Rota (1973)
      Yvon Lambert (1973)
      Dave Gardner (1973-1974)
      Glen Sather (1975)
      Doug Jarvis (1976-1982)
      Guy Carbonneau (1983-1994)
      Mick Vukota (1998)
      Jassen Cullimore (1998)
      Jason Dawe (1999)
      Barry Richter (2000)
      Randy McKay (2003)
      Chris Higgins (2006-2009)
      Brian Gionta (2010-2013)

      • Lafleurguy says:

        I guess Gilles Tremblay must have switched to no. 5 at some point, and likewise for Chuck Lefley and no. 24. Definitely Yvon Lambert was no. 11 when he scored the OT winner to consolidate Guy Lafleur’s most famous goal. Fran Huck! A smurf by today’s standards but a giant on Father David Bauer’s National and Olympic teams who were solely comprised of amateurs.

        “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Doug Jarvis.

    • on2ndthought says:

      I’ve always been a habs maniac, but 21 has always belonged to Stan Mikita in my mind. We was one of a handful of players that I admired (without despising) that didn’t wear our colors. Gil Perrault was another, though I don’t know his number.

      “a cannonading drive”

  19. JTT says:

    One thing we know for sure. Murray is a pretty simple player. A matt kassian would be icing on the cake. all set to go. lots of toughness, speed and skill could take us all the way to Lord Stanley. These two Gravatar Gentlemen said so …

  20. Maritime Ronn says:

    Lots of debate back and forth about Price and his past, yet one item is crystal clear – he has yet to live up to his declared potential, or his Cap Hit pecking order that was 3rd highest for NHL goalies last year, and will be 4th highest this year.

    Moving forward, there was a belief from here that THE most important off-season acquisition for the Habs has been….not Briere, Parros, or Murray (although they are big keys)…yet goalie coach Stephane Waite.
    His 10 year Hawk pedigree is quite simple.
    Niemi and Crawford, and 2 Cup rings.

    Perhaps we turn the page on “Carey Past” and move on.
    Waite is a no nonsense guy, and most probably will be approaching this job with the potential of ‘tough love’ which may have not been the case in the past.

    From Waite:

    – “I like a goalie that is technically strong, and Carey is one of the best technical goalies in the League”

    – Waite talks about in his coaching evolution is an increased emphasis on battle and compete levels.
    ” “It doesn’t have to be pretty. I don’t care about that anymore. I need a better reactor, even if it’s not very cute. If you battle, it’s important.”

    – “I like a goalie who can also leave his technique behind — he shouldn’t be a robot,” he said. “I like a goalie who can use his instincts; it’s very important, and I feel it’s been lost for a lot of goalies in the League because they’re too worried about technique.”

    – “I believe very strongly in positive reinforcement,” Waite said. “Every day in my video sessions with my goalies, I would say 70 percent are things they do well and 30 percent are adjustments or things they need to correct or they need to watch for. I believe in that, that he sees how good he can be, how he’s square, how his rebound control is good, how he’s technically good, how good he is.

    – ” When a goalie starts thinking, he’s not sure because he thinks one thing and his coach thinks another, that creates hesitation, and that’s the worst thing for a goaltender to be caught in between the two. With us, it’s going to be clear.”

    It’s going to be extremely interesting to follow the evolution of this relationship where Carey had no say as to whom his next coach would be.

    What is encouraging is that both Bergevin and Dudley know Waite very well from their Chicago time.
    Another interesting aspect of the relationship is that the Habs need Waite more than he needs the Habs.

    Habs fans may need some patience on this one.
    There is a ‘possibility’ Price may need to take a step back, before he can leap 5 steps forward – the same that transpired with Crawford.

    • Phil C says:

      – “I like a goalie who can also leave his technique behind — he shouldn’t be a robot,” he said. “I like a goalie who can use his instincts; it’s very important, and I feel it’s been lost for a lot of goalies in the League because they’re too worried about technique.”

      I believe this will help Price the most if he can embrace it.

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        Hi Phil

        I guess we’ll find out, and who really knows?
        Maybe that’s what Price has always believed in, yet was coached at the NHL level in a different manner.

    • on2ndthought says:

      I’ll respond to Adidess on this note: stats are nice. They give a picture of a player on a team at a given time. The team Yzerman has put together is not only going to look at stats, but at skills. Carey’s skill set is off the charts, a big quick lad with sound positioning, stick handling, and team awareness. Waite come here to get paid, but I’ll bet every goalie coach is drooling at the prospect of working with a package like Price. Just as Landeskog’s number wouldn’t get him a sniff at Team Sweden’s camp, but his skill set will, so does Carey get an invite, and may well be a or the favorite to grab the job, even during a three day camp mid-season.

      “a cannonading drive”

      • Adidess says:

        I did not mention stats–would have been too easy and not fair to Price playing on the team we have.

        If I were picking Crawford over Price, I’d go by:
        1) his hybrid-style (technique + reflex), which I prefer. Price excels at the first one
        2) his compete level (an early gaffe won’t determine what kind of night he has in goal)
        3) his recent performance level (using level here not to refer to stats but how he delivers in the crunch in that championship stretch by stepping up his game even more).

        I’m not a scout, but if I have a good team and equally good D, I’m comfortable with him as a goalie knowing he won’t fold under pressure.

        When you pick a goalie, you don’t get to take his perfect skillset alone and use it in goal. What you’re putting in goal is the (flesh-and-blood) goalie he is mentally, physically, skill-wise and experience-wise.

    • turbodragon says:

      I don’t know how Waite’s past success will translate to Price. Before working with Waite, Crawford was talented, but all over the place, would go out of his net too much and go for the crazy saves instead of focussing on being properly positionned and always ready. Waite taught him to be calmer and play a more technical, constrained style. I think Price’s problems are of a whole different nature. I’m not saying Waite won’t be good for him, but he’ll have to do something different than he did with Crawford.

    • Habs4LifeInTO says:

      Great insight in this post, many thanks! I think I saw Price looking a little robotic at times and a slave to technique. Some capacity to battle more would be a perfect add for Carey. Also I have heard that Dustin Tokarsky is a consummate battler. I wonder if these two will be a tandem one day under Waite?

      24 cups and counting….

  21. Psycho29 says:

    PK and Carey……The Honeymooners:


    • Un Canadien errant says:

      We really should get P.K. an Expos hat. Get him the tri-color or the basic navy blue, let him pick one out of either. Heck, maybe even a vintage Royals hat. But the Yankees hat has to go.

  22. frontenac1 says:

    Hope Tarnasky gets a call up this season.He”s a tad crazy, but it would be fun to see him go at a few Leafs and Bruins.

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      I think good ole Nick will be in Hamilton making sure no one takes liberties with our young guys there and that’s a good thing. He wasn’t a great NHL heavyweight.
      Geez, the guy had 37 fights in his last 2 AHL years that sandwiched a year in the KHL where he managed to go another 7 times.

  23. frontenac1 says:

    @commandant. I love getting your take on the young lads. You’re one of the best amigo. Even if you don’t like hockey fights. Saludos!

  24. B says:

    11 days until the rookie camp starts. I am guessing the following will be there (unless injuries or their current teams won’t allow it):

    Andrighetto, Archambault, Beaulieu, Bennett, Bournival, Bozon, Cichy, Collberg, Condon, Crisp, De La Rose, Delmas, Didier, Dietz, Dumont, Ellis, Fournier, Fucale, Gregoire, Holland, Hudon, Leblanc, Lehkonen, MacMillan, Mayer, McCarron, Nattinen, Nygren, Nystrom, Pateryn, Quailer, Reway, Sullivan, Thomas, Thrower, Tinordi, Tokarski, and Vail

    –Go Habs Go!–

    • JohninTruro says:

      Archambault will not be there, he is no longer property of Montreal. We opted not to sign him, so he became a free agent, and correct me if i’m wrong, Wild invited him to camp?

      • B says:

        Thanks for the reminder. The Habs still have him on their prospects page, but they did remove Walsh (I also noticed Walsh was at the July camp but Archambault was not).


        I seem to recall that Ben Duffy may also get an invite to the Sept. camp (he did well in the July camp). I am not sure if any of the other July camp invitees will be asked to join the Sept camp).

        I am also not sure if AHL vets guys like Tarnasky and St.Pierre will be at the Sept camp. I added Tokarski on my guess list, so perhaps I should have included Tarnasky and St. Pierre too?

        –Go Habs Go!–

  25. sweetmad says:

    You are right Front,none of those things matter,as long as people are good, kind,honest,caring people, their outlook on life ,doesn’t really matter.A positive person can be as hard to take as a negative person. If your lucky you get to make friends with people of all persuasions,and learn from all of them.

    As long as you don’t waste your life what does it matter.

    I for one am lucky,I have a roof over my head, food in my stomach,water to drink,and a doctor I can see,what more can you ask.They say there is always someone worse off than you,some one has to be the one, thats worse off than anybody else,I am just glad that is not me.

    And I have people, who don’t know me, and can still give me good wishes.Man what a great life.And I have the HABS.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      The destinations are what they are (illness, well-being, wealth, struggles) but the “journey,” can be so fascinating. As a Habs fan since 1968, I am as tightly bonded with the team with 20 championless (rhymes with classless) years as I was in the dynasty eras.

      “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

    • PrimeTime says:

      Your lists are based on opinion, not facts. But at least I added a hit to your site 🙂

      • commandant says:


        For the record its a site list, not “my” list

        Also no list is based in fact… not any player… its always opinion. Stats can always be argued both ways and are only 1 tool in a scouts toolbox, never the be all and end all.

        Go Habs Go!
        Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.

        • New says:

          You’ve got a good site and the information and opinions there are interesting.

          About the only relevant fact here on HIO is 21 years minimum between Stanley Cup final appearances for Montreal (1993 — that’s in the last century for newbies reading — 2014), everything else is a point of view. Yet they have recorded their 1,000,000th ( probably 2,000,000th if you count the purged) comment.

          Hope your site gets the same traffic.

    • B says:

      #10 may get less starts than his team mate at #15

      –Go Habs Go!–

    • Cal says:

      Price ranked 11th? A little too high, dontcha think?

  26. frontenac1 says:

    @bill. I don’t use apps much because BlackBerry doesn’t have many good ones yet, but this new Q10 I got, holy schniekies,what a freekin machine! Still learning all the shortcuts on the new OS,but Damn its fast. Saludos!

  27. wjc says:

    I think friendships on here are wonderful. But, I think they get in the way of speaking your mind. If you want to be popular on here you should not offend anyone. People are sensitive apparently. Popular opinion is the safest route, unless you don’t care about popularity.

    How do you offend, you ask? By disagreeing with popular opinion, or tippy toeing around something, you take away from the raw emotion that a social network evokes.

    Congratulating each other and backing each other against an outside force that supposidly upsets the harmony.

    “A” speculates this and “B” speculates that and they debate for hours on something that has not happened. This is supposed to be stimulating conversation….yea sure zzzzzzzzzz.

    I am an optimists, and look for the good and hope for the best, be it a trade, a player struggling, etc. This means I will be wrong quite a bit.

    Another person is negative and predicts doom and gloom all the time. No coach is good enough, playoffs are just a dream, every trade is a disaster, a list of who they should have gotten. They have a higher percentage of being right.

    So if you want to appear smart, be negative…..go with the odds.


    • JohninTruro says:

      I am not sure if I should agree or disagree with this post..

    • Habs4LifeInTO says:

      Interesting post. I think I see where you are going with this. I am a positive poster too by and large. However, I do feel as though many would rather build consensus than get closer to the truth. I try to enjoy some of the discussions but sometimes people get too clingy in here and it’s more about pleasing others than anything. I don’t mind a little relationship building and some familiarity but some take that too far. I have probably been guilty of that in the past as well. Having said all that, I am just a fan and I get my fix here. I don’t know everything. Just really seem to care about the Habs; maybe too much for my own good. But I am hopelessly hooked. Always have been (1959). On the whole people are pretty good on this site and I think I’ll continue as long as I’m able.

      24 cups and counting….

      • wjc says:

        I got hooked around that time myself, it was my passion and still is.

        I appreciate your take on this. We need to keep the edge and not worry about what we really think, just say it. I missed most of the 50’s cups but the habs of that era were pure magic, especially to a kid.

        Beliveau was my player and Galavan had the perfect hockey voice. Foster was alright but a bit nasaly. Galavan was always coming up with unique ways of saying things. Parafanalia and spin a rama’s , cannanaiting drives and he said it all with the perfect pitch…rising and falling with the play.

        It broke my heart when they lost to Chicago, I thought they should win every year. They had won 5 in a row and it never occured to me that they could ever lose.



        • Habs4LifeInTO says:

          Danny Gallivan will always be my gold standard. That voice still gives me goosebumps whenever I youtube him. Simply the best and peerless in my opinion. I had the privilege of attending countless games at the old Forum and loved every minute of it. I was at that famous New Year’s Eve game against the Russians (1979). I even caddied for Pete Mahovolich once at Mt Bruno! I will always be a fan of the Habs. I also think that every opinion here counts for something. I think most of us care enough to be here and that’s good enough for me, whatever they think…

          24 cups and counting….

    • PrimeTime says:

      Price haters will alway be Price haters. Even if wins a cup a la Crawford they will use your reasoning that the team won it, not Price. You can’t use logic to argue prejudice….just reference politics or religion.

  28. Adidess says:

    I’m sorry, Price has not proved that he is better than Crawford or Luongo at this point of his career. People seem to be taking upside into consideration here, but upside should not matter for this year’s Olympics selection. Could Price become a better goaltender one day than any of these guys ever was? You bet! The sky is the limit for him.

    But so far, we have not seen Price play stellar when it counts the most since reaching the NHL (playoffs, end-of-game situations with a one-goal lead). Not taking away what he did in Junior and in Hamilton, but that was then and this is now (6/7 years later?).

    Price has been rather adequate in the playoffs and down the stretch of regular season games, not brilliant. You could argue others on this list have shown on occasion that they can bail out a defence that sucks for a night or two. I want to see more from Price when his defence fails him with the game on the line. That was a major area of disappointment last year.

    I didn’t find it odd that close to half of HIO posters would like to see Price in net in Socchi, that’s what I want. We’re all Habs fans.

    But when people start arguing that Price has earned it because he’s a better goaltender today than Luongo, Crawford, or Mike Smith, I disagree. I think he still needs to prove it.

    • wjc says:

      What happened yesterday, is not necessarily true for today or tomorrow. Never heard ‘Crawford’ mentioned until his team won the Stanley cup.

      Price could correct one small thing and be the best in the league. The biggest correction that is happening is the team in front of him.

      Of course Habs fans want to see Price in net. If you saw ‘Crawford’ game in and game out, not highlight reels, I would bet he would not live up to your lofty assessments.

      The way to prove it is to continue on the path he is on. Maturity is not just a word it has meaning. What it means is, time will correct a lot of Prices minor problems. He plays in the toughest market in the NHL next to Toronto. He has flourished in my opinion and as the saying goes……YOU HAVEN’T SEEN NOTHING YET….FOLKS! Stay tuned for chapter 2.

      Roy believe it or not, had his detractors……trade him they yelled. Trouble maker, spoiled, over rated…….you all seen how that turned out. When Roy was traded there was hardly a word against it. Not till later when they realized what they lost……be careful history does not repeat itself.


      • Adidess says:

        I don’t know how this is an answer to my post. Who’s talking about trading Price?

        Oh and all Crawford has done is win the Stanley Cup, so why all of a sudden people consider him a good goaltender? Well, we watched it happen over an entire playoff run, we witnessed it as he raised his level to reach the proverbial bar.

        You seem to be saying what we saw with Crawford shouldn’t change one’s perception of his ability or performance. But what you expect/hope to see one day from Price is the measure we should go by?

        • commandant says:

          Sure Crawford won a cup…. Price didn’t.

          Thats not really a fair way to compare them though…. To take an extreme example from another sport, Trent Difler has a Superbowl Ring as a starting QB, Dan Marino doesn’t.

          It takes an entire team to win a championship and the Chicago Blackhawks of 2013 were far better than any Habs team Price has played on. Put Crawford on this year’s Habs, do you still think he wins a cup? Put Price on the Hawks? Can they still win the cup?

          Of course its all hypothetical and we’ll never know for sure, but I think the Hawks with Price instead of Crawford still win…. the Habs with Crawford still lose.

          Go Habs Go!
          Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.

          • Adidess says:

            Ok, fair. You make the case for why Crawford may not be better than Price, which is a very reasonable argument.

            But why should I take Price to start over Crawford again? I now know Crawford can backstop a team through a Cup run and be real steady all the way through. That’s one step ahead of having the ‘conviction’ that Price would be able to do the same thing under the same conditions.

          • commandant says:

            Because at the Olympics, you need to be even better than at the NHL.

            In the NHL a great team can hide an average or above average player at one position. There is so much parity that every team has a weakness. The salary cap doesn’t allow a team to be built like the 70s habs…. with a Guy Lafleur winning the art ross, a bunch of great forwards behind him, the big 3 Hall of Famers on Defence, and then one of the best goalies ever in net. There is no team like that in the NHL… and so you can hide a weakness.

            In the olympics teams like the US and Sweden and Russia will have great players on all 4 lines. You can’t hide a goalie.

            Winning a cup is not the same as winning a gold medal, so Yzerman and his staff have to find the best goalie, not just the goalie who played on the best team.

            Go Habs Go!
            Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.

          • Adidess says:

            So ok, Team Canada would be foolish to show up to the Olympics with a goalie like Crawford because he would prove too easy to expose, would allow too many softies for the team to overcome? But Price would be a different story, would give Canada the best goaltending performance one can hope for, and the best chance to win Gold? We know all that how? Do we realize the amount of wishful thinking in these statements?

            I don’t know who is better. But one guy has dealt with big game pressure very recently, overcome it to help his team win the Cup, played really really well throughout. The other guy has, by his own admission, failed to overcome the pressure, regardless of team performance, during the same period of time (played poorly in the playoffs by any standards).

            Yet somehow the guy who hasn’t proved it is the more proven one we should start at the Olympics. I don’t know if it is hockey knowledge or logic that’s failing me here, but I don’t get it.

          • commandant says:

            Don’t put words in my mouth.

            I didn’t say Team Canada would be foolish to take Crawford.

            I said Team Canada would be foolish to make the decision based solely on who has won and who hasn’t without actually watching the goalies play.

            Win loss records and cup wins are irrelevant to who is the better goalie as they are team stats, and the teams are not equal.

            Go Habs Go!
            Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.

          • Adidess says:

            Oh yeah, you did not say the word foolish. Sorry for using one word you didn’t use.

            What you did say was picking Price ahead of Crawford for the Olympics is the better decision because Team Canada would be more exposed with Crawford. My point is I don’t understand why Canada would be more confident or better off with Price in net than Crawford, considering the latter is the more proven guy at the pro-level at this point, especially if you’re taking recent performance into consideration.

            This discussion doesn’t happen if we’re all sharing our dream of seeing Price lead Canada to Gold. We’re talking about how Price is a better goaltender today than Crawford is, which I don’t accept as fact. Unless Price outplays Crawford and Luongo by some margin the first 3 months of the season, I don’t know how you go with him as the starter. I do think and hope he makes the team.

        • Maritime Ronn says:

          It’s pretty straight forward and not hard to understand.
          It’s called Performance… and playing well at the right time.
          Making the big save at the right time.

          Crawford won 4 tough playoff series against excellent hockey teams like Minnesota-Detroit-LA and Boston.
          He posted a .932 SP and 1.84 GAA against these teams.

          Since Price came into the NHL, his playoff SPs are as follows:
          .934 (and Habs lost 3 of the last 4 games in OT)
          .894 – this year against Ottawa

          With those numbers, no team wins the Cup-even the Hawks

          • commandant says:

            Stats don’t tell the whole story either…. stats don’t talk about the quality of shots that the Hawks were giving up vs the quality the habs were.

            When teams got the chance to take a shot from a high quality area, and didn’t feel rushed by defence they were able to eat crawford’s glove side alive. When shots were rushed, or at bad angles they didnt.

            With a good defence, led by two all-stars in front of him, the number of high quality chances went down.

            If all shots were created equal we wouldn’t see every goalie in the league have a lower sv% when his team is shorthanded than when 5 on 5. On the PP, the quality of chances is better. By the same token, not every NHL team gives up the same quality of shots. Every goalie’s stats are dependent on the defence in front of him.

            Go Habs Go!
            Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.

          • PrimeTime says:

            Bullspit. If you can show their averages if they switched teams then your point is valid. Stats do not tell the whole story.

    • Phil C says:

      Its really not just about earning it. If so, then Ward and Fleury would be on the list. They’ve done more to “earn” it than the others on the list, including Price. You need to separate team performance from individual performance and pick the players who you think give you the best chance to win now. I think that’s what Team Canada has done. Despite Crawford’s recent success on a good team, he won’t even make the team if he struggles early. When February come around, I think Price will be the man. There is some homerism in there, I won’t deny, but at the same time, I don’t want Price in there if he is struggling.

  29. Bill says:

    Is anyone out there a programming genius? Because if so, I would pay money for a better mobile app that doesn’t give me a million “parse errors” a day.

    • neumann103 says:

      Are you referring to the HIO app? On android it is so bad as to be unusable. The desktop site rendered on either of my Samsung Galaxy works just fine.
      While the mobile revolution is great in many respects I am puzzled by those who can exist solely on these devices. My 11.6 inch semi netbook with a real CPU can be my best friend.

      Sometimes “request desktop site” can be yours on a mobile device.

      [Posted from a sometimes infuriating android phone]

      “Et le but!”

    • Phil C says:

      @ Bill

      Are you using an iphone? If so, download a third-party browser that will allow you to view the site in desktop mode so the site looks the same as your computer at home. Makes it tough to post, but it’s way better for reading the site and following the discussion. When I used an iPhone I would use Safari to post, but I would read the posts with a third-party browser.

  30. Ian Cobb says:

    Oct. 26th 3pm. The Montreal Canadiens Children’s Foundation Charity Raffle at the Baton Rouge restaurant 1050 Mountain St.

    I am constantly ask ” What to bring for the raffle donation”

    My answer is, everyone is coming from different financial backgrounds, just do what you are comfortable with.

    In past years, we have had team sweaters, hockey card collections, books, NHL hockey tickets, jackets, computer monitors, shirts and everything in between.

    Remember, everyone is going home with at least one gift, as a momento of this great HIO fan weekend.

    Each person is asked to bring one gift item, to donate. Dave Stubbs is bringing a classic HIO hockey sweater. Reg Houle is bringing a team autographed stick. Ian is bringing his best outfit, for the much in demand annual table dance.
    Raffle tickets, 1 ticket for $20 or 3 tickets for $40

    Summit game tickets, News, Pictures and comments

  31. on2ndthought says:

    @slovakhab re: 2011
    Man how good does Andrew Shaw look: rnd 5 pick 139, already effective and makes Bolland expendable, netting Chicago three more cracks at finding a draft gem (all higher than 139).
    Wait: he’s only 5′ 10′ !!! 😉

    “a cannonading drive”

  32. BermyHab says:

    Just a thought,

    As I was opening this page to see this mornings comments the one millionth comment article caught my eye. I thought to myself how lucky HIO was to be able to write an article about a Habs fan talking hockey. How lousy would it have been if the one millionth comment was a Bruin or T.O. Troll talking sh*t? That would be a smack in the face. Weather it was by design, or as I’d like to think, just luck the Habs Hockey Gods were smiling (instead of laughing) down on HOI that day.

  33. Maritime Ronn says:

    Just in case anyone missed this from ESPN.
    Wear your Habs stuff with PRIDE!

    The Montreal Canadiens have the top-ranked jersey in sports, according to ESPN’s Uni Watch Power Rankings.

    ESPN released their final rankings of the teams in the MLB, NHL, NFL and NBA on Thursday where they ranked the historically-dominant Canadiens atop the list.

    According to Uni Watch, the Habs “have it all: an iconic logo, two distinct but equally classic uni designs and an ideal balance of red, white and blue. This isn’t just a perfect hockey uniform set — it’s a perfect uniform set, period.”

    The list ranked several classic jerseys in the top 10 including the Chicago Bears, Chicago Cubs, Green Bay Packers, and New York Yankees”
    * The artice mentioned something, or some animal called the Bruins in the Top 10, but I erased it out.
    Hope I didn’t offend anyone…

  34. Maritime Ronn says:

    One of the better Team Building exercises around is the NCAA Arizona Football team end of Camp competition.

    Even the coach gets into it at the end.
    That would make for some great Habs video.


  35. Congrats to Carey Price and his new bride Angela.

    Nice article on the Tri-City Herald earlier this week on Price, the wedding and getting set for the Olympic camp.



    Exploring the Habs history at Le Tir, et Le But! Follow me on Twitter

  36. Hobie Hansen says:

    Morning fellow HIO posters! I hope everyone has had a great weekend thus far? Myself, have to pickup the woman at the airport tonight, thus ending a week of drinking beer, playing poker, eating steaks and even hitting a gentleman’s club across the river in Gatineau, the home of Danny Briere. Managed to get my money back at the Lac Leamay casino that I lost earlier in the week at 1-2 no limit hold’em by catching fire on Saturday night, thank god!

    This might be sad, but the highlight of the week was switching on the laptop and seeing that we signed Douglas Murray ;-).

    Just over two weeks until the Habs start training camp! It’s sad in a way that the summer is coming to a close, hopefully September and October are nice, but having 3 or 4 nights a week of Habs hockey is going to be outstanding. Especially since the Blue Jays are absolutely horrible.

    It’s been the same thing for 20 years, with a few minor exceptions. The Habs are done in April, the Jays season starts but they’re dead by mid July. So that leaves pretty much two months without any good sports to watch. And I do love the Habs a hell of a lot more than watching the Jays by the way!

    Have a great Sunday everyone and I really look forward to chatting with you all about on ice stuff very shortly!

  37. Lafleurguy says:

    The 2018 Winter Olympics will be in Pyeongchang, South Korea. Zach Fucale will be Canada’s starting goaltender. You heard it hear (here) first on HIO’s 1,000,666th post (audio not included).

    “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

  38. Lafleurguy says:

    Great Mornin’ Dun, Merrytimes, AustraSlovakHab, and Professor and Mary-Ann (meaning all the rest of you),
    Is camping less exciting when there is no chance of a bear visit?
    Carey will be cut some slack for mitigating circumstances (I consider marriage a mitigating circumstance), but will PK be given the same slack on the first day of Olympics team evaluation camp?
    And on this theme of scattered topics accurately reflecting my two-sips of coffee brain, what is good Irish barbeque fare, pulled-pork poutine perhaps?
    “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

  39. Maritime Ronn says:

    Good Morning morning crew.

    Interesting to note the responses from the very unscientific poll question:
    ” Which goalie invited to Team Canada’s orientation camp would you pick to START at the Olympics?” (note the word START)

    The voters, in a plurality fashion, chose Carey Price so far at 47%.

    To those that did – and this is not anything close to being anti-Price, yet what do you believe are the compelling reasons based on pressure NHL season and playoff performance (not potential) that would make you choose Price over:

    1) Crawford – Stanley Cup champ that knows how to win, while posting a terrific .932 SP and 1.84 GAA in 23 tough playoff games to go with his .926 SP and 1.94 GAA during the season.

    2) Luongo – The reigning Team Canada Gold goaltender. Yes, there are large question marks there, yet if he performs in the Top 15 from October to December, he should be Top 2.

    3) If one is a Washington Cap fan, a long shot case could be made for 23 year old Braden Holtby based on recent 2 year performance on what could be considered a medium to poor overall defensive Caps hockey team.
    In his 21 NHL playoff games over the past 2 years, he has posted a .931 SP going 10-11.

    Can Holtby handle pressure? How’s about a playoff Game 7 OT win against the then reigning Cup champs Bruins 2 years ago in the Boston barn…

    Now if Price can surge to the top in goaltending measurement stats and tools with new coach Waite, that would or could be a compelling reason….

    • SlovakHab says:

      Price over Holtby and Luong for sure.
      Crawford was good in the playoffs though. I would put them on par.

    • Dunboyne Mike says:

      My vote was pure homerism.

      The question didn’t say, “If you were the coach” or any such. It just gave me the magic wand.

      I used it!

      In truth, it’s a very nice selection of goalies. That said, the one who makes me most nervous — and perhaps I’m being unfair — is Luongo.

    • Cal says:

      The proof was in the Stanley Cup pudding. Crawford is better than Price.
      Still, there are a lot of jockeys thinking he’s a thoroughbred.

      • Lafleurguy says:

        Price earned praise for his play in the team’s seven-game 2011 playoffs, but when the Canucks lost 4 games to 3 in 2011, didn’t Luongo have a couple of shutouts against the Bruins? All the candidates have “game” and I would go with the hot hand as the Olympics get closer.

        “Where’s the Beef?/What’s the Beef?”

        • Maritime Ronn says:

          Hi Boni

          A closer look at that 2011 playoffs perhaps forces more questions than answers.
          Price had 4 very good games and 3 not so good.
          3 of the last 4 games in that series were OT games and we lost ALL of them – Games 4-5-7.

          If you remember, we won the 2 first games at Boston, needing really only a split on home ice. Carey had an .857 SP and ,875 SP giving up 8 goals in those 2 games – 1 being an OT Bruins winning goal in Game 4.

      • wjc says:

        Cal: Goaltenders do not win Stanley cups, teams do.

        There is no proof only circumstance. In a world where all teams are equal, your argument would work. But, in the real world not all teams are equal.

        If in your world ‘all teams are equal’ then your argument is valid.

        In the world where most people live ‘ all teams are not equal’.

        So the conclusion is this. You can say ‘Price’ is lacking as a goaltender, but have no basis for your conclusion.

        So the only conclusion one can assume is you are biased, and only wish to be told you are right. Because if you are wrong you look quite the ‘fool’. How would your ego handle that.


    • piper says:

      I am a huge Price fan, therefore I’d love to see him in the backup role. Luongo has to be the starter based on experience.
      It will probably be Luongo, Crawford, and Price in that order unless one of them has a bad start to the season.

    • L Elle says:

      If this were a poll on another teams’ blog, obviously, the results would be different. Only Luongo and Price play on teams out of Canada, therefore, they have a higher profile.

      I agree, no matter what name is clicked on the poll, it will all depend on the first 3 months of the season.

      Is it too much homerism? We’ll see. But, could it be the 47% possibly… maybe…somewhat…think Price is a better goalie than the others on the list, and as Hab fans, they wish him success? 😉

    • Phil C says:

      I think it is a very difficult task to compare goaltenders based on stats when they play for different teams. How would have Price performed behind the Chicago team and how would have Crawford played with Montreal’s defense last year? Very difficult to say. Kiprusoff had the worst save % of any goalie who played more than 20 games last season. Was that because he sucks or because he played for Calgary?

      Crawford had a good playoff run, but despite his knack for making the big save, he has been inconsistent in the past. Price is a little quicker and I think he is also better technically. Edge Price.

      Holtby. Haven’t watched him a lot, but I love his competitiveness. A little young for my money to be the starter. Edge Price.

      Luongo. In the last Olympics, I never felt confident with him in the net, although he made some great saves in the Gold Medal game, so he deserves full credit for that. I see the starter position as his to lose. His bipolar performance in the 2010 Stanley Cup is also cause for concern. He doesn’t seem as athletic as he did in his prime when he starts flopping around. I would prefer Price.

      Mike Smith was probably the best goalie in the playoffs two years ago. When he is on, he looks amazing. He only got 4% of the vote, but if he gets hot, he could be a serious contender. Not sure if his body of work will be enough to get him on to the team.

      In the end, I like Price for his combination of size, quickness, puck handling, and technical skills. But for this tournament, there is no time to struggle. Even if you have one bad period, you may never see the insider of the crease again, as Brodeur found out. FWIW, any of those 5 goalies have the ability to be the starter if they get hot.

    • on2ndthought says:

      look at the years that Stasny and Landeskog had for Colorado. That will not keep them off their respective Olympic squads. Maybe you would trade Price for Crawford or Holtby, and only time will tell who will be the more effective goalie over the next decade, but my money is riding on Price. While I like the other two, Price is such an effortless beast back there. Rebound control is a stat I would like to see. If you have to make saves two or three times every rush (Holtby) then your % may go up, but you’re not helping your team. I don’t just mean freezing the puck, but getting it to the corners, or better, to an outlet guy. Even Crawford spends a lot of time down on the ice looking for the puck he just stopped. Of course it happens to every goalie, but on the shots they see, it doesn’t happen to CP a lot. Also lateral quickness in the crease, he is a cat back there. Crawfords great when he’s on the ice, but Price can stay on his feet against a lot of puck movement. Sometimes Carey doesn’t appear to have the competitive desperation of Thomas, Holtby, and sometimes Crawford. I think you’ll see it at the Olympics and, now that he apparently has a little more protection, in the playoffs.

      “a cannonading drive”

    • neumann103 says:

      Honestly I would have to see them play and judge either on the half an NHL season or some exhibition games. My decision would then be butt covered by recent empirical evidence.

      That being said I believe Price is the most technically solid of them. He is pretty much the archetype of the modern goalie – which is in large measure why he is so well regarded outside the Hab fan world.

      “Et le but!”

  40. SlovakHab says:

    I reckon 2011 NHL entry draft has a great potential to come close to one of the best ones in 2000s.


    Already 16 first rounders have played in NHL, half of whom were regulars. Others like Strome, Armia, Morrow, Biggs or Klefbom will get their chances for sure. Then there are lower picks already making impact: Saad, Pageau, Shaw…

    When it comes to Montreal, Bealieu has a great potential and Nygren and Dietz also have a chance to turn into NHLers.

  41. SlovakHab says:

    Good morning, everyone.

    The discussion about Doug Murray signing and his PK abilities between Chris, Twilighthours, Punkster and Talik was one of the finest in the offseason. I really enjoyed reading it.
    They talked a lot about the way HOTP blog and the way they analyze. I enjoy reading their stuff as an alternative, but man – is that an ego-based blog or what!

    Imagine Mike Boone or David Stubbs coming in and arguing with every single person that has a different opinion to theirs. Luckily they don’t feel the need to stroke their egos, and while their posts are less frequent in the offseason and mostly just report news without deep analysis, they leave this as a space for everyone to talk whatever they want. I’m grateful for that.

    • Dunboyne Mike says:

      Hi SH.
      Although it was briefer and less detailed, I also liked the exchange between Chris and Eddie concerning Montreal’s woes in the blue paint at both ends. Hopefully the addition of Murray, and the return of Emelin, and the mythical 2 inches/25lbs that everyone else grows when you sign someone big, will change things in our own blue paint. Could be great for Price. At the other end, it will be interesting to see which Bourque turns up and whether or not Patches re-introduces his more physical side.

      You still in Europe?


      • SlovakHab says:

        It will definitely be interesting to see our blue line in the next season. PK, Gorges, Markov, Diaz and Emelin, when he returns, are solid 5D. Then we have Bouillon, Tinordi, Murray and Drewiske as bottom-pairing options, plus Beaulieu and Pateryn ready to play whenever called up.
        Depth is never a bad thing, and might fetch a pick at deadline.
        As for our wingers, Pacioretty is a good puck-handler and has a great shot. Borque too has a great shot. As long as they score goals, I’m neutral about them being physical or not.

        Actually, I live in Australia. Haven’t been to Europe for over 3 years now…

        • Dunboyne Mike says:

          Sorry SlovakH! Somehow got it into my head that you were in either Italy or possible Denmark…. And I thought it was hard for ME to stay up and watch important games!

          Glad you include Bouillon without any derogatory remarks (re. age or size). I believe he still has an important role to play, and I liked Chris’s outside-the-box suggestion yesterday of pairing him with PK.

          And you’re right about Pacioretty, of course. If he’s leading the team in goals, let him keep doing what he’s doing. Plus, he’ll have a longer career. Still, I’d like to see someone banging at opposing defensemen in the goalie’s face. Other than Gallagher!

          • SlovakHab says:

            I respect Frankie Bouillon. As long as he is a 6th defenceman and doesn’t come near powerplay, and gets his rest, I trust he will be effective for us and will have a nice season that could be his last.
            However I really want to see Tinordi and Beaulieu get their share of games. With Emelin out, I would like Tinordi to push for a top-6 spot. After the deadline, providing we trade away some d-men, I would like at least one of Tinordi/Beaulieu earn a fulltime spot.

            As for physical players to crash the crease, I am expecting this from Gallagher, Borque, Prust, Moen. Pacioretty and Eller also have size to screen the goalie. Obviously, I don’t expect this from Plekanec, Briere and Desharnais.

  42. Dunboyne Mike says:

    Good morning all. Excellent discussions last night.
    Away to an end-of-summer clan-gathering BBQ up in Cavan today (next county north of Meath, Lafleurguy). When I get back tonight, I would be grateful to find advice from anyone who wears vari-focals! I just started yesterday, practising around the house and feeling seasick as well as intermittently blurry-visioned! Do you eventually grow accustomed or do I start taking Gravol three times a day? Or is it possible they just aren’t suited for some?

    “Timo”, did you bring me back some cake? (You did see that I rumbled your true identity, right?)

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      Morning Ireland,

      The varifocals (progressives) are the worst pain in the butt thing I ever wore. It’s been a few years and they still drive me crazy. A few things to try and get used to. Now instead of just shifting your eyes, you basically have to point your head (nose) to what you’re reading.
      Going down stairs can become a little dangerous as you bounce between 2 different lens and sometimes lose perspective. God forbid you fall asleep with them on watching tv and your frame has even the very slightest change. You’ll have no choice but to run to the optometrist or else you will be forced to look side ways at things.
      Absolutely hate them and seriously considering laser as the tests said I was ok to have that done. Doc says I’ll need reading glasses. So what. Much cheaper to go to the pharmacy and by 10 pairs vs. the $500-$800 you’re spending on progressives and all the hassles.

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        Ha! Thanks for all the encouragement!

        Yes, have already noticed new neck muscles developing as I am now turning my head constantly like the Robot in Lost in Space as well as nodding up and down to find non-blurred vision. Was warned about the stairs. Pretty disheartening that you’re still unhappy after a few years.

        Still, I’d advise being very cautious before going for Laser. No doubt there are many posters here who will vouch for it, and I hope all continues well for them, and I do feel seriously tempted every time I hear success stories and expressions of satisfaction. But, relatively speaking, it’s still a very recent popular technology, so that long-term data has yet to be compiled and analysed. And I’m sure opticians in NS — as they pedal those $800 specs — say the very same thing as those in Ireland: all the eye surgeons who perform the Laser surgery are wearing glasses!

        As for reading glasses, very nearly all of us need them past a certain age, and that’s even with Laser or contacts. Fact of life! You and I both have beautiful landscapes to look at, my wife is gorgeous, as are my 5 kids (they took after her!) so — like Sweetmad with her great news yesterday — we need to be thankful for what we have. Even if we have to use binoculars!

        Is there a link to a post explaining your name change? (Is there a link to the post you apologised for?! I missed all that!)


        • on2ndthought says:

          I find they are fine for the computer screen (mid low, and driving, upper. For reading, I have draw my head back and tilt. I often just bring the material close, slip my glasses down my nose, and read above the frame. I’m severlt myopic, so the paper is three inches from my face, but oh well!

          “a cannonading drive”

    • Cal says:

      I’ve worn glasses for over 30 years and started my first pair of progressives over the summer. They are great. My depth perception for driving has been greatly improved.
      Yes, you have to bring your chin to the top of your chest while walking down stairs, but it’s a minor thing when compared to the alternative of changing glasses to read.

  43. Timo says:

    Back from Carey’s wedding. I gotta tell ya… I do not care for country music. Carey and Mrs Carey walked the island to this song – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWu4aynBK7E

    And it was all downhill from there, music wise.

    For some reason the couple got a lot of big round objects that, if I didn’t know any better, I would have thought were beach balls.

    Overall, I couldn’t get out of there soon enough but out of respect to Carey I stuck around past midnight.

  44. RetroMikey says:

    New phone,,,yeaaaah!!!!

  45. Un Canadien errant says:

    I don’t know why, but my posts listing the Quebec Premier Ministres who had English-sounding surnames and were father-son-son are getting blocked by Gremlins. Google it if you’re interested I guess.

  46. Un Canadien errant says:

    I just listed the Johnsons who were premiers of Québec, and was told it was SPAM and should contact the administrators. I don’t get it.

  47. @Dunboyne Mike:

    Sorry for the delay Mike, I just now saw your reply. There’s a little primer on this at w3schools.com. : )

    And no worries — I really don’t know much more html than that!

  48. Epic says:

    @Front: My senior prom was in Hull, 1982. I remember very little except somehow managing to get lost in a stairwell for 3 hours.

    My “higher education” was at Careton University. In 1985 some friends and I went to TO to see The Scorpions and woke up two days later in a motel room in Brantford, I kid you not.

    That was the point where I decided to cool down some……

    I never partied it up with Chartraw and Pointu though…..

  49. JTT says:

    Sweetmad – so nice to hear the great news regarding your daughter. Hope she has a long and healthy life. All the best to you both.

  50. SmartDog says:

    Hey Twilight,

    I posted below you and said – wow you were b—–d?
    Guess what? My post got banana’d too.

    It’s got to be automated. I guess they don’t want people who are banana’d to complain about being banana’d. — The FIRST RULE of Banana Club is you DON’T TALK ABOUT Banana Club!!

    Can you smell what the dog is sniffin?

  51. Sportfan says:

    Toronto teams in any sport suck, sigh the poor jays -_- what a bummer of a season.

    Sports and Entertainment in the link click and enjoy, clicking is fun!

  52. Ian Cobb says:

    I just caught your post below about your daughter, now in remission, many thousands of miles away from your support.
    I am happy for you that she might be out of the woods. Toughest job and position in the world sometimes, is being a loving parent my friend. Good luck to both of you.!

  53. Dunboyne Mike says:

    HabFab, the website you link below is new to me. I’m a little troubled by its name! Should I be?

    • HabFab says:

      It has been around for a while…

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        “Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

        From breaking news to in-depth stories around the league, KK Hockey is updated with fresh stories all day long and will bring you the latest news as quickly as possible.”

        Ok, sorry. Saw that it was sponsored by Fox, noticed the three Ks in the alliterative title, added 2+2 and got 5.

    • twilighthours says:

      Nice vid, mike. I’ll definitely use it in class sometime.

  54. Dunboyne Mike says:

    Well, the rain exploded with a mighty crash
    As we fell into the sun,
    And the first one said to the second one there
    I hope you’re having fun.
    XXXXXX on the run, XXXXX on the run.

  55. frontenac1 says:

    Me and my amigos at Concordia back in the 70″s tried to find new levels of “higher” learning every week. It’s amazing what the human body can withstand.

  56. on2ndthought says:

    I know a guy who scouts Bantam/Midget for junior, that’s almost like me being in pro hockey!

    dennab is dennab!

    “a cannonading drive”

    • Dunboyne Mike says:

      What I want to know is, what’s a “lower bride”? And then, what’s a “lower bride type deal”?

      (As in, my wedding planner advised, in the interests of vertical symmetry, that I have a lower bride as well as an upper bride. I mean, it sure drives up the price what with two wedding dresses and shoes and limos etc, but he has a point: these things just have to look right.)

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Love how he gets on Twitter to argue with a reporter. Class, kid.

      Isn’t that what he pays his agent for?

      P.K., for all his media presence, never went beyond the platitudes of “It’s a process” and “a deal that works for both sides”, blah blah blah, never anything controversial. When it was over, he complimented the Canadiens and Marc Bergevin on their professionalism, etc.

      Like I said, we dodged a bullet not ending up with that clown. Better them than us.

  57. Storm Man says:

    @ Mike I know Timo I think he is in Carey Price’s wedding party today 😉

  58. frontenac1 says:

    Keg parties,Girls gone Wild, Football Games,Cheerleaders, those were good times amigos. Saludos!

  59. 24 Cups says:

    Had Luongo voided the remainder of his contract that runs through the 2021-22 season, he would have forfeited about $35 million.

    “I was ready to walk away from it and sign somewhere else for lesser term and less money,” Luongo said.

    Hey Luongo, why don’t you cut the bullshit. Every Canadian in the country would love to be in your shoes living your life of fame, fortune and luxury. Why don’t you suck it up and play like a man.

    This guy stands to make 94M by the time he’s forty playing a game we all loved as young boys. Spare me your crocodile tears, please.

    • twilighthours says:

      It’s all guesswork, Steve, but I believe he would have.

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        Twi, what happened to your rant 10 hours ago? What single word got you modded? Been waiting all day!

        • twilighthours says:

          Sorry dog! The word was the reverse of dennab.

          Crazy, eh?

          • Dunboyne Mike says:

            So could you re-post using a suitable synonym? I have to go to bed soon, not sure if I’m going to be able to get to sleep from wondering!

          • twilighthours says:

            Ah man it’s all good. Nothing good comes from going on rants. I took a deep breath and realized it wasn’t worth it.

            Don’t be disappointed, it really wasn’t anything worth reading. Seriously.

          • on2ndthought says:

            actually that is interesting. Part 1 of my rant (which got lost) contained that very word!

            “a cannonading drive”

          • HabFab says:

            I was working myself up to do a rant when Chris beat me to it.
            His was so much more relevant!

          • Chris says:

            There are few things in this world where I’m naturally “gifted”. Ranting just happens to be one of them (with devouring ice cream at a disgusting rate being the other).

            If only I had talents that were actually useful.

  60. Storm Man says:

    Well I must say I’m happy with what MB is doing to make this team tougher. Now for my rant first up the little crew at Eyes on the prize, Who in your little no one picks us for teams in gym class when we were in high school gets paid to write the crap you do? and what job do you hold with any pro hockey team? I will even give you the AHL as well. Berkshire has zero hockey background but looking at hockey statistics from books others get paid to print. I bet I have seen more live games then he has watched in his life time. I wonder if anyone here has a job in pro hockey? with that being said I guess we all are hockey experts and should have a web site doing a hatchet job on players MB picks up for the Habs. That is my expert analysis on the matter. Storm Man is back and ready to send the little ones back to the cheap seats.

  61. The Jackal says:

    Anyone know which teammates are attending Price’s wedding?
    I ask out of curiosity, not to stir the pot. It doesn’t really matter who goes or who doesn’t, I’m just wondering.

    Hockey sine stercore tauri.

  62. Mattyleg says:

    Douglas Murray is a Swede?
    Douglas Murray?

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  63. Dunboyne Mike says:

    @UCE (it was getting too skinny down there)
    Looks like we both played both codes. (And I paid a price for tackling the same in both). But I’m sure you’ve noticed how now in the professional game there is a lot of high tackling, in an attempt to tie up the ball rather than the player, this being made possible by the immense upper body strength of the pro player.

    Maybe I’m a bit more cynical than you are — I think the IRB’s motives for change have only a superficial connection to player safety (but then again I may just be poisoned by my perception of the NHL — and how I agree with all your points about it and Bettman and Cherry and co).

    You’re right about Team Canada and those illegal shoulder charges. I remember some years ago a guy called Lockheed delivering a big one. But it was against the Springboks so I rejoiced anyway!

    (Is Can’s recent win over the US online somewhere?)

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      I just see an openness to new ideas from the IRB that is completely absent from the NHL. Rugby increased the value of a try to five points, from four originally, and it was relatively uncontroversial, most everyone agreed it would open up the game, save for a few Abraham Simpsons, and they were largely drowned out and ignored.

      Meanwhile, the NHL is still wrestling with whether the shootout is a good idea, and a vocal faction wants to go back to ties, fans be damned. Fights can’t be taken out of the game because the fans stand and cheer, but that’s not a good enough reason to like and keep the shootout.

      If you bring up the idea of increasing the size of the ice surface or the nets, it’s as acceptable to them as the crucifix scene in “The Exorcist.”

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        Salut Normand.

        On your last sentence: did you know that here the GAA (Gaelic Athletic Association, est. 1884 — hurling, Gaelic football) never allowed “foreign” games (soccer, rugby) to be played on their grounds until 2007! Your Exorcist scene was played out in the media ad nauseam in the lead-up to that change. I guess there are old farts* in suits everywhere — think of FIFA and Sepp Blatter! (Ireland still stinging from Thierry Henry’s handball that led to France’s winning goal in a World Cup qualifier in 2010 — still no goal-mouth technology in international football).

        *I used this term without thinking, but just remembered that it was used famously in a sports context that you may well recall since you follow rugby. England captain Will Carling referred to the suits of the RFU (England’s association) as “57 old farts” in a media interview. The RFU promptly stripped him of the captainship. But then no one else on the team would accept it (I think Rob Andrew was first to decline). Carling was reinstated! I didn’t love Carling, but I love that story!

        Enjoy the rest of the weekend.

  64. on2ndthought says:

    Sorry (but you probably are not 😉 ) Part 1 of rant got lost:

    Education’s primary focus has to be preparing youth for citizenship, not just to get a job. We don’t really need another layer of bureaucracy to tell us middle class jobs are drying up throughout the western world. There is a reason. Government policy is more about preserving the right to make money than the right to have a job. This is Reagan economics and it doesn’t work unless you are wealthy. Here is a rich guy to tell you (this is the start of a 4 part rant and is continued below)


    “a cannonading drive”

    • Dunboyne Mike says:

      Good multi-part rant. (Was wondering where chap 1 went).

      Only this time last year there was a “back-to-school” panel on The Sunday Edition actually laughing at the notion that there was any connection between education and economic growth, despite what governments may think, profess or desire.

    • Phil C says:

      This is a very good point. Hard Habits mini-rant about the approval of the Monsanto Protection Act in the US is good recent example of how governments in the western world care more about big business than it’s citizens health and well being. It’s a disturbing trend that is eroding the middle class.

      “The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.” – Plato

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        One day this summer it was headline news here how Trinity College Dublin — consistently in the world’s top 100 universities — came last place in a survey of how much business investment it attracted per faculty member. The accompanying commentary expressed shock and horror and insisted that Trinity had to avoid falling any further behind. The university that placed first was in South Korea.

        I’m sure those silly dons in Trinity immediately sat down together to re-model Trinity along South Korean lines.

        • on2ndthought says:

          …. to get Monsanto to sponsor their bio-ethics and coca-cola to sponsor their biochemistry program.

          “a cannonading drive”

          • Dunboyne Mike says:

            Maybe Shell or BP could be tempted to throw a few million at climatology…

        • Chris says:

          They probably should.

          Universities that can’t consistently find money from alternative sources from government are going to be in a lot of trouble moving forwards.

          The demographics are such that an increasing portion of the budget pie has to be dedicated to health and issues related to seniors. That group constitutes both a large voting bloc and also a large demographic group

          With falling enrolments and the above budget stagnation if not outright cuts, universities can’t count on growth any longer. The age of austerity is upon us, and there isn’t anybody that is immune. For example Harvard got the tar kicked out of it in the financial meltdown and their job security in many fields was shaky, at best. That’s one of the top 5 schools in the world and one that pulls in a ludicrous amount of public research money.

    • Loop_Garoo says:

      Exactly correct. I believe a big part of the youth unemployment problem is that we depend on education to prepare us for career, when it is only one of the factors involved. People believe they went to school,therefore the jobs will follow but it’s not that simple. Conversely, education is not sufficiently preparing us to be a productive citizen, as it is to focused at times in preparing people for work.


    • Dunboyne Mike says:

      This 2 min vid has a bearing on your point. (A weird but effective combo of philosopher Alan Watts and the guys who do the animation for South Park). Pretty sure you’ll like it:


      • on2ndthought says:

        very nice DM. yes, let’s sing and dance, which is what HIO is, a community where we sing and dance in joyful harmony…. screeeeech

        “a cannonading drive”

    • twilighthours says:

      The purpose of public education for youth is debatable, but I agree with you that it should be about citizenship as well as academics or preparing for some mythical after-education-job-years life.

      I would still like universities to be about academia in the true sense, about learning and discovering. That may not be practical, given funding, etc.

  65. on2ndthought says:

    last of rant at last: While policy must shift from sheltering wealth to actually encouraging employment, attitudes must also switch from entitlement to responsibility. If you haven’t heard Ashton Kutcher’s advice to teenagers, it might surprise you:


    “a cannonading drive”

  66. on2ndthought says:

    Rant part3: A hint of the way out for our economy can be found in the COSTCO model. This is a bit of a feel good story:


    to be continued

    “a cannonading drive”

    • Chris says:

      Costco, along with other big box stores, are a massive problem, not a solution.

      They kill off countless smaller businesses, who can’t keep with the volume discounts that a massive chain can deliver. But the net loss in jobs is not a social positive, nor is the fact that the profits that once went to local businesses now and DID trickle back into the community now go to corporate head office in another country.

      Costco is undoubtedly better than some of their big box competitors. But I would never, ever cite big box stores as being part of the solution.

  67. on2ndthought says:

    Rant Part 2: Policies mentioned in part 1 have created huge inequalities in our economy, this article provides a glimpse and I’m linking a couple of the more interesting links from the article:


    a very simple graphic representation of what is happening (and is not sustainable)


    an interactive:


    to be continued

    “a cannonading drive”

  68. Bill says:

    @prohabs: Please provide the link to Carey Price’s wedding invitation list. Six may actually be attending, but certainly there would be a few who could not make it for various reasons. And why would he invite the whole team anyway? I work with about seventy people and I’d invite maybe seven of them. Don’t think it shows a rift.

    Sorry if your post was sarcastic.

  69. on2ndthought says:

    An interesting look at M A Fleury and a reminder that careers are rarely a smooth progression:


    “a cannonading drive”

  70. Harditya says:

    It’s hard to predict the future of any prospect, but I am really excited about Arturri Lehkonen. This kid can shoot! I’d say he’s the Habs’ most intriguing Finnish prospect since Saku Koivu.

  71. Chris says:

    Oh, my belated rant for this week… (NOTHING to do with hockey, so skip if you hate that kind of post)

    I watched “Generation Jobless” on CBC’s Doc Zone on Thursday. That depressed the living heck out of me, but I would strongly recommend that show to everybody. This is a discussion Canadians need to be having, particularly those with kids about to leave high school.

    Canada’s got a massive problem developing, and the solutions are not going to be easy. In some respects, the mess around youth unemployment, universities churning out unneeded graduates with reckless abandon and the potential for another brain drain could together be the impetus for another discussion about national unity.

    One of the things highlighted in the show: Canada is the only major economy that does not have a national ministry of education, as education is the exclusive purview of the provinces. Policy for the economy, on the other hand, is largely set at the federal level.

    Because of this sheer stupidity, there is no record of how many graduates in a particular field are being produced in Canada each year. How is this even remotely possible in the computer age? How do you make economic policy without having information about the people that you are training? How do we address the needs of Canadian business when we have no solid information either from them or for them?

    Youth unemployment is of course not even the primary evil; the number of young Canadians (18-35) that are underemployed is sky-rocketing. Anecdotally, I am seeing this quite frequently now with peers who have obtained Master’s and PhD degrees in the physical sciences (math, stats, physics, chemistry and, to a lesser extent, engineering). The majority of them are either underemployed or pondering returning to school to become more employable. The careers just don’t exist in Canada right now, and I’m starting to question whether they are disappearing for good. One of the interviewed experts on the documentary made an interesting observation: the average 30 year old 15 years ago had worked 11 jobs (including jobs while they were going through school). The average 30 year old in 5-10 years will be reporting having worked 200-300 projects…we are increasingly moving towards a project-driven economy, with no job security, pensions or benefits to be found.

    There are fixes, but I’m not sure you can do it within the framework of a federal government and 13 provincial/territorial governments who are eagerly passing the buck due to jurisdictional spats. I’m increasingly in favour of blowing it all up – it clearly isn’t working if it is easier for a registered nurse trained in Ontario to obtain work in the United States than it is in some other provinces.

    • Eddie says:

      I’m certainly not qualified to solve the problem for everyone, but I have 3 kids, a 20, 19, and 16 year old, and I discuss with them how they intend on converting their university degrees into real jobs.

      I think parents need to take the lead here.

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        Wow Eddie.
        I have three those exact ages, too.
        (Plus a 14 and a 9).

        And on point, I believe unemployment is even worse in Ireland than it is in Canada, and there is massive emigration here. And my kids’ No. 1 emigration target?


      • Chris says:

        There is some value to that.

        But what is happening right now is a seismic shift in the work force. It is a perfect storm of factors:

        1. The lingering recession (which is only now hitting the public sector in full force…public sector tends to lag the private sector by 2-3 years during recessions) and its associated austerity measures

        2. A baby boomer generation that is not retiring the way policy analysts predicted when they encouraged every and all high school kids to go to university

        3. Apprenticeships that are very difficult to get into; we all know that the country needs more apprentices, but companies are not willing to hire and train the people who are more than willing to seek those positions. This is the underlying issue with the temporary foreign workers here in Canada.

        4. Automation has replaced many traditional jobs, meaning that there are fewer and fewer jobs to go around. And it is no longer just service work (book stores wiped out by Amazon/Chapters, music stores wiped out by iTunes, bank staff wiped out by ATM’s, grocery store checkout staff wiped out by automated checkouts, etc.). Now we’re seeing fewer lawyers being hired to articling positions, as software can now do the job they used to do more profitably. Efforts are underway to create robotic drug dispensary units, which could replace pharmacists. And so on.

        5. No venture capital money; even those students who want to start their own businesses based on their science degees quite simply can’t do so because there is little to no money to be had for this type of initiative. Canada spends about $11 billion per year on research & development, but only $300 million on fundamental research. The rest goes to tax breaks and incentives that largely do not translate into jobs, simply extra profits for companies.

        6. Universities and colleges are not preparing students for the new work world. All students should be receiving training in project management, entrepreneurship, networking, and communication skills to go along with their program specific training.

        7. Kids are being forced into volunteer positions and/or unpaid internships, the poop has well and truly hit the fan. A society that prizes itself on equality of opportunity has now become a two-teri system, where increasingly only those who can afford to work without pay for 1-3 years have opportunities to secure the kind of careers that can establish someone in the middle class or above. Many of these internships are in fact illegal under most provincial labour rules, but there is no will to actually prosecute this.

        And so on.

        This isn’t an issue where parents can take the lead and kids will do fine. Its gotten to be much, much larger than that.

        But the one thing I would plead with people in the older generations is to stop with the chracterization of this generation as entitled or unwilling to work. I see these kids working their tails off in many cases, but they simply can’t find opportunities. For example, co-op used to be a foot in the door…in many cases now it is just sheer exploitation with little to no value added for the student. It is tragic. We need to see a lot less blame, condescension and criticism, and instead acknowledge that we have a serious problem and demonstrate a willingness to work on the solution.

        This is the future generation(s) that we’re talking about here. If we screw this up, it will get very, very ugly for everybody.

Leave a Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.