How hot is it in Montreal?

HabsPricesaveApril2

Hotter than last summer’s debates between Priceians and Halakites.
Hotter than HIO readers when they see posts about the Bruins.
But not hotter than negotiations will be when a couple of big contracts expire.

We’re talking about the cornerstones of the franchise, Carey Price and P.K. Subban.

Each is signed through the impending 2011-’12 season.

And then …

If they play to their potential this season (and the team is toast if they don’t), Pierre Gauthier and the players’ agents will be negotiating mega numbers.

How much and for how long?

That’s today’s topic of debate.

And if you’re in our fair city, don’t do anything too strenuous (as if …) and drink plenty of liquids.

To get discussions started, here’s a good piece 24 Cups found about the Flyers and their contract mess.

• Yvon Pedneault on the Josh Gorges situation

Rangers, Brandon Dubinsky avoid arbitration

Frankie the Bull is not ready to hang ‘em up

Goaltending is set around the league

Scott Burnside on the futility of offer sheets

NHL records that may never be broken

Kaberle parties in Pleks’s hometown

150 Comments

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  2. SyntaxLove says:

    I detest any contract that’s greater than 5 years. If it’s for a franchise player then maybe another year or two but 9 years for a goalie is absolutely ridiculous. He’s already 31. He realistically has another few years before his game begins to decline. I hope he tanks in Philly but remains healthy so they have to eat his contract.

  3. BONZOHABS says:

    There’s no 2 ways about it. Price and PK are both young (24-22 resp.) They will be and are the cornerstones of the Habs org. They will get paid their worth. I believe Price will get a long term like 4-5 years worth 3.5-5 mil. a year. So far he hasn’t shown success (by this I mean Vezina, Cups, etc.). To me he IS THE BEST goalie in the league. He’s like a Roy to the Habs! For Subbi, it’ll be round wat Price will get. Long term offer, 3-5 years worth 3.5-5 mil. a year. Again, he doesn’t have NHL caliber successes like Doughty does (Olympic Gold medal). But PK Subban will be up there. I think respectable for the both of them is $4.25 mil. a year at 4-5 year contract…if the salary cap the free agnet market keeps seeing this rise in player worth. They r must keep franchise players and WILL lead the Habs to success and a 25th Stanly Cup! Go Habs Go!

    • mbplekfan says:

      You are very conservative in your estimates. Both players will either have proven to be franchise players or just elite by this time next year. Both will need to be paid accordingly.

      The salary for the first few years might be reasonable the last ones will be very high which elevates the overall cap hit.

      Expect Price in the 5 mill per season range with Pk around 4.5. Combined with several other RFA’s coming due next year, PG will need to clear cap space beyond losing Spacek to sign both.

      • 44har48 says:

        No way Price gets over $5M per year and Subban gets more than $4.25M per year. I love ‘em, want them here for a long time, they will be stars in this league someday, but they are also RFA and have won nothing in the NHL. Subban also has a lot to learn to leverege all that talent he has – and not everyone is as high on him as we are. I say Gomez finally gets shopped next offseason and the Habs will have plenty to get deals done with them. I also don’t subscribe to the theory other teams will be bidding them up…thats hogwash as most GMs still have ethics other than Burke and Sathier. Nobody bid Stamkos up, becuase its unwritten you don’t play like that.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Please please please can we go easy on the Price is the next Roy or Dryden comparisons? Patrick Roy won the Stanley Cup as well as the Conn Smythe in his rookie year. Mr. Price has all the talent to become the best goalie in the league, and let’s leave it at that.

      ———————————
      For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  4. Feraco says:

    PK! Is a #1 pairing defencement and will be compensated as one.

    Some comparable salaries across the league given his age, ice time, points and what he gives to a team:

    Giordano 4 mil / yr
    Seabrook 5.8 m
    Keith 5.5 m
    Wiz 5.5 m
    Lidstrom 6.2 m
    J Johnston (LA) 4.3 m
    Volchenkov 4.25 m
    Timonem 6.3 m
    Yandle 5.3 m
    Martin 5 m
    Letang 3.5 m
    Boyle 6.6 m
    Bieksa 4.6 m
    Hamhuis 4.5 m
    Ballard 4.2 m
    Green 5.25 m
    Markov 5.75 m

    All the contracts range from 4m – 6.5 m. Depending on the market and the term my estimation is that PK comes in at a cap hit of 5 m / 5.25m per season.

    Doughty’s signing will set the benchmark.

    • HabsPEI31 says:

      I have a hard time with “Doughty as benchmark” for PK’s contract.
      Doughty was a 2nd overall pick, 21 pnts in his rookie season, 59 pnts in year two, a Norris Trophy nominee, and an Olympic gold medallist.

      Need I say more?

      I love PK, but no way he gets Doughty-like contract numbers… unless he becomes the Second Coming of a Doug Harvey-Nicklas Lidstrom-Hybrid in this, his second FULL season.

      “Only a goalie can appreciate what a goalie goes through.” – Jacques Plante

      • GenerationYHabs says:

        If you’re going to list point totals of Doughty’s rookie season as a basis you do realise that last season WAS Pk’s rookie season and he put up 38 points right?

        • Chris says:

          Yep, but Doughty’s 27 points came as an 18 year old rookie with no professional experience, while Subban’s 38 points came as a 21 year old rookie with two additional years of OHL experience following his draft year PLUS a year of professional AHL experience under his belt.

          I think people sometimes forget that Doughty is still younger than Subban. :)

          • GenerationYHabs says:

            Ok fair point – However I just dont like the fact that people put Doughty in an entire league of his own when only 1 season of NHL level play is all they have to compare the two players, regardless of age.

        • HabsPEI31 says:

          I was going to add PK’s rookie season stats, with the caveat mentioned by Chris, but my boss was coming around the corner, so I had to get out fast.

          “Only a goalie can appreciate what a goalie goes through.” – Jacques Plante

    • GrimJim says:

      You guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. PK is better than Spacek, not as good as Markov. That puts his potential salary between 3.8 and 5.75 million. He’s only 21 and an RFA so he’ll be on the lower end of the range, around $4 to $4.5 million

  5. Chris says:

    Cap hits of Stanley Cup winning goalies in the salary cap era:

    2010-11: Tim Thomas ($5.00 M)
    2009-10: Antti Niemi ($827 k)
    2008-09: Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.00 M)
    2007-08: Chris Osgood ($850 k)
    2006-07: J.-S. Giguere ($4.5 M, rolled back to $3.99 M by new CBA)
    2005-06: Cam Ward ($684 k)

    So where does Carey Price fit in? He has never been nominated for a Vezina Trophy, nor has he carried his team past the second round.

    He finished 2nd in wins, but partially as a result of playing so many games. He also finished 2nd in the league in losses.

    Regarding the statistical leaders, he finished 10th amongst starting goaltenders in GAA, tied for 5th in SV% and 3rd in shutouts. Also, he has experience playing the hardest position in professional hockey, goaltender in Montreal. But one has to factor in that the Habs play a defensive game, possibly inflating Price’s stats a little. This isn’t in any way trying to pull Price down…he was easily the team’s MVP last season. But putting him into a league context is tricky.

    So Price is basically a guy who has made a good name for himself, but has yet to experience significant post-season success. I would say a 3-5 year deal carrying a cap hit of $5.00 M, similar to the deals of Tim Thomas (who has 2 Vezina Trophies and a Stanley Cup) or Marc-Andre Fleury (Stanley Cup) would be fair for Price.

    If Price can maintain his excellence over that time period and get the team to the Stanley Cup finals, then you can start talking about paying him $6-8 M contracts. But goalies are so common that I would hate to see so much cap spent on one, personally.

    • Cardiac says:

      The only flaw is see in your theory is Fleury and Thomas play behind much better teams than Price has played behind. But yeah, given his cap hit is around 2.75 mil, I wouldn’t give him more than double that, regarless if he has a good season or not.

      “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
      – Jerry Maguire

      • Chris says:

        Fleury played behind a team missing Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin, the two guys who make that team, for most of the second half. Throw in the Malkin was playing on a bum knee before he went down. Yet he was right there with Price, statistically.

        I personally believe that Boston was a much better, more well-rounded team than Montreal. But many here would doubt it.

        Fleury is probably the most appropriate comparison. When Thomas signed his deal, he was a UFA, whereas Price and Fleury are/will be RFA’s when they sign(ed) their own deals.

    • HabsPEI31 says:

      I agree, similar numbers to what I posted earlier. But using much better wording :)

      Anybody look at the G&M article on the goalie situations? I thought I saw a typo when I read “Salak”. Other name I didn’t recognize was Dekanich.

      “Only a goalie can appreciate what a goalie goes through.” – Jacques Plante

    • Not one of those goalies I’d rather have than Carey Price. So I guess he gets 6 million/yr lol. Not a single goalie carried their team like Price has in Montreal, not getting a Vezina nomination was a complete slap in the face.

      I wonder how many wins he’d have on that Boston team and over 70 games played?

      Until this Montreal team shows that they can win games easily, then the highest paid player on the team will be Price (speaking of the future, and Gomez gone).

      For me I look at every game the Canadiens won last season. Almost every single game Carey carried the team. He’ll be paid like it soon, as for PK.

      Yes I’m taking it easy and just yacking :)

      Shane Oliver
      http://www.Sholi2000.com
      Brandon, MB,Canada
      R7B 2R7
      hockey@sholi2000.com
      Ph- 204 724 8418

      • Chris says:

        I think that is probably a stretch. Pekka Rinne had MUCH less talent to work with in Nashville than Price did.

        The job that Jonathan Quick has been doing in Los Angeles the past couple of seasons (combined totals of 74-46-10, 10 SO, 0.912 SV%, 2.40 GAA) is just phenomenal, and I hardly think that he was called on any less than Carey Price.

        Jonas Hiller was phenomenal for the Ducks until injury cut him down, although he does have a decent supporting cast at forward.

        Henrik Lundqvist is the engine for the NY Rangers, as he has been for almost a decade.

        Ilya Bryzgalov was stellar for Phoenix with a brutal supporting cast.

        Carey Price gets our attention because we see him everyday. But he really is just one of about 10 goalies in the NHL that are all realtively on par with one another. And he’s got to prove that last year wasn’t a flukey good year, just as he had to prove that 2009-10 WAS a flukey bad year.

  6. Being a good GM is all about buying low and selling high, and J.P. Dumont could surely be had for 1 year, $1.5-$2M. He’s a Montrealer, he’s a big boy, he’s just 33, and he’d surely be good for at least 35-40 points on the third line with Kostitsyn and Desharnais/Eller.

    Worst case scenario: he’s a bust and we sit him, deal him or put him on waivers, with minimal cap hit and minimal risk. Best case scenario: he pots 50-60 points and helps fill in for injured players in the top six. After all, in the four years before last year’s miserable season he was a consistent contributor, with 66, 72, 65 and 45 points.

    Mike Boone: “With Gainey at my side, I’d walk into any dark alley in the world.”

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      I wonder about Mr. Dumont. I like the idea of a local boy coming Montreal to finish his career, he has skill, good hands, and used to kill us when he played in Buffalo.

      I searched the Tennessee newspapers looking for insight as to why he had that terrible year last season, and it was all euphemisms and aphorisms from Barry Trotz, how he’s a real pro and taking things like a gentleman and staying ready in case they put him in a game. Odd. Not sure if it was due to injury or fitness or age, but they were really treating him as if he’s finished.
      ———————————
      For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  7. Mattyleg says:

    Hey! Randy Cunneyw… oh.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  8. GenerationYHabs says:

    Habs hire R. Cunneyworth and R. Ladouceur for assistant coach positions , C. Jodoin becomes Hamilton Head coach.

    (Edit: I got to type faster apparently)

  9. Chuck says:

    Not sure if it’s been mentioned, but Cunneyworth and Ladouceur named assistant coaches in Montreal. Clément Jodoin named as Head Coach of the Hamilton Bulldogs.

  10. Mattyleg says:

    Haaaa!!!
    You’ve got to imagine what went through Kaberle’s mind as he walked into the ballroom and saw a band called Hello Piggy in pink overalls.

    “Oh good Christ. I’ll never be able to show my face in the NHL again.”

    Got to give him credit for going the whole hog, though.

    *nyuk-nyuk*

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  11. the heat has been nutty, but, nothing 14,000 btu’s couldnt bitchslap

  12. LL says:

    One of my friends just called me and reminded me there is only 8 weeks to training camp!

    So much of contract discussions and decisions is a giant crap shoot. You are always taking a huge risk with the big contracts, for obvious reasons. There are going to be hits and misses for every team. Ditto for drafting.

    Our team hasn’t looked this good in decades. I hope Price, PK, Max, Eller, Pleks and all the rising stars will play to their full potential, injury-free, and with the veterans pulling their weight, this team will do awesomely well in the near future.

    None of the youngsters should be let go because of $$$$ unless they are demanding ridiculous amounts or term. But I have a feeling another team will pay anything for a PK or a Price.

    Let’s not lose our greatest assets.

    • habaddict_andy says:

      In the near future? I willing to give a bold prediction and say we can win the cup this year. If not next year definitely. You heard it here first, this year or in 2 years max, the cup is ours. The development of Subban and Price are noticeably above average to believe they don’t need to develop 3 more years.

      Go! Hockey! Go!

      • LL says:

        In this case, “near future” means the same thing for me too…haha.

        Reminds me once when I told someone I’d call him back later. Later, to him, meant the same day. Later, to me, meant 24 hours or so. He wasn’t happy. lol

        • habaddict_andy says:

          I thought I was going to be treated like an idiot but hey I don’t think we are that far off. I can’t wait to see how the season unfolds. It’s time to prove TSN and CBooins wrong. When that happens it will be SWEET!!

          Go! Hockey! Go!

          • LL says:

            Yeah, positive people are looked upon strangely. ;)

            As I was telling my Bruins’ fan friend last week, still high on the Cup win, he’s going to have to wait another 50 years for another one, but Habs still have the future to win many cups in as many years.

            That thought depressed him. Exciting times ahead for Habs’ fans.

  13. PrimeTime says:

    Far too early to make firm decisions on Price and Subban. Too many parts can change over the year but PG will have control as both players are RFA. Neither are elite players, yet, and that will still be evident in their UFA year. I would assume both will have a solid year and continue to be assets to the club that PG will want to retain and plan forward. Neither will EVER get from PG a stupid Luongo life-long deal which is no way to build a championship team. Hopefully deals like the one Stamkos signed will be the new treand. I would predict that both Price and Subban will be asked their intentions and preferences and then talks will roll from there with both signing reasonable deals that will not tie the hands of the team from being to have other “cornerstones”. If the team has successful years with both signed until they are UFA, then it becomes more interesting. Then you may have to choose one or the other to the “big” lottery contract. But a lot will change between now and then. For now PG should make every effort to consider Price and Subban cornerstones for the immediate future as long as attitudes and performance do not take a turn for the worse. PG will be as smart and as cautious as ever as the decisions on these players set the table for the “next” team identity.

    • HardHabits says:

      Very good post for the most part although unless you are PG you don’t know what he will do or is thinking. I think it is more accurate to say that you suspect he will make the moves you suggest or at the very least you hope that he does.

      I also see the Habs doing deals with Subban and Price along the lines of the Stamkos deal. The Habs have been very frugal with the contracts they dole out; no front loaded contracts, no crazy term.

      Price and Subban as the cornerstone/building blocks moving forward is an excellent strategy for the Habs. There is no reason to assume that they can’t retain and build around both players long term and into the future.

  14. shiram says:

    That Kaberle picture is a little disturbing.

    If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

  15. mdp2011 says:

    I don’t understand why everyone is worried about cap projections for next year and where Price and Subban’s contract will fit in. The CBA expires after this upcoming season and my guess is the NHL is headed straight for another long lockout. The NHLPA has been in shambles since the last lockout, and that is one of the reasons they went out and hired Donald Fehr. The other reason is Donald Fehr = No Salary Cap!!!!! So if and when they do finally agree to a new CBA, my guess is that there will be no salary cap, or the salary cap will be set a ridicules high number like 85-100 million. The NHL landscape, for better or for worse, will change with the new CBA – again. I think the rich teams will get to spend whatever they want in terms of salary, and probably have some sort of luxury tax for the bottom feeder teams. My gut feeling is that the NHL and NHLPA are headed for a long and difficult negotiation, and the NHL will shut down for at least one full season, if not longer. Just my opinion.

    • Willy says:

      I can’t see another lockout coming. Not with the new deal the NHL just signed with NBC, that’s huge and i would assume both the NHLPA and the owners are aware that if they go through another lockout this soon after the previous one that they will not be seeing the same kind of TV contracts and endorsement deals ever again. Just my opinion.

      • mdp2011 says:

        yes, you have a point, but we are talking about Donald Fehr here, who is not known for caring about the good of the game, whether it was baseball or now hockey. All he cares about is fleecing the owners as much as he can which he did brilliantly for over 30 years in MLB. With Donald Fehr running the NHLPA, the players will win this battle.

      • Sean Bonjovi says:

        That contract is a sweet deal for Comcast, and it’s for ten years, so even if they have a lockout the NHL will play another 8 seasons before they negotiate a new one.

        “Andrei Kostitsyn is a better hockey player than Max Pacioretty”
        – Sean Bonjovi

  16. habaddict_andy says:

    it looks to me the best way to fill in the rest of the roster is to call up from the farm. AK46 is unlikely to come back next year unless we want an expensive 3rd liner. So Hamilton will likely be more under pressure to perform better and elevate the kids developments.

    Go! Hockey! Go!

    • Cardiac says:

      AK46 won’t get any serious ice-time aside from the PP and in the event of injuries. However, I think PG signed him for that kind of cash not knowing he was going to get Cole a couple of weeks later.

      “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
      – Jerry Maguire

      • G-Man says:

        “not knowing he was going to get Cole”

        Cole was signed to fill a void, because AK does not click well with Gomez and Pleks.

        • habaddict_andy says:

          AK does not always go to the net. I think he prefers to rush to the net once in a while. But everybody’s been saying he should go to the net more often. Now that Cole is signed, AK is left with 3rd line duties. He becomes an expensive 3rd liner.

          Go! Hockey! Go!

          • shiram says:

            AK is on average a 20 goal scorer and having some scoring depth on the Habs is definately needed.
            If Pg can work him in, he is a worthwhile player to have around, he gives the team a great scoring touch on a third line, some physicallity, PP player, and can easily replace in the top 6 in case of injury.

            If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

          • GenerationYHabs says:

            I still don’t quite understand why so many people are so willing dump Ak at the drop of a hat. He’s one of our leading goal scorers, his season totals are extremly consistant and he’s relatively cheap in comparison to other contracts on the roster.

          • shiram says:

            Like comparing AK to Cole…
            AK might have less hits, but he comes in quite a bit cheaper.

            If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

          • habaddict_andy says:

            I can’t seem to reply down low so… Shiram, I have a friend who feels the same way. Maybe I’m getting way ahead of myself. I’m just speaking cap wise.

            Go! Hockey! Go!

          • shiram says:

            Can only have 5 or so replys before it cuts off in the new version of this place, kinda annoying, but I think it helps with the sites performance.

            Ak gets alot of media diss, and people easily rag on him, but the way I see it, he brings alot of what the team needs. At 3.25 millions, I don’t think we are overpaying AK46, but come next year, if he is looking for a big raise, well, he has one season to prove he is worth more than 3.25M. If he keeps the same production, well, I am not so sure we could afford to give him a raise.

            If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

    • Sean Bonjovi says:

      .

      “Andrei Kostitsyn is a better hockey player than Max Pacioretty”
      – Sean Bonjovi

  17. Mattyleg says:

    Uh, about those ‘records that won’t be broken’… how about:
    Ten Consecutive Playoff Overtime Wins?

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  18. TorontoHabsFan says:

    The big wild card in the Price and Subban contracts will be the CBA negotiations next summer.

    I wonder if there will be a roll back in the cap in exchange for a change in the escrow rules? If so, we’ll likely see lower contracts for franchise type players (but for shorter term).

    • HalifaxHabs says:

      If I’m not mistaken, I heard that the NHLPA & the NHL extended, or is about to extend, the CBA for an additional year. Which means we’ll have to negotiate those deals under the current CBA.

      • TorontoHabsFan says:

        Huh, hadn’t heard that yet – I’d be a little surprised, as this seems like the perfect moment for them to add in the penalty-free buyout period. There are lots of teams that could use a mulligan on some of these contracts :D

        Something to keep an eye on I guess!

        • HalifaxHabs says:

          yeah maybe I’m on crack, but I coulda swore I saw something on TSN with Donald Fehr the other day, and he was talking about extending it another year. That being said, I can’t find any confirmation of it, so maybe it hasbn’t happened yet, or maybe I was just dreaming, lol.

          • TorontoHabsFan says:

            Could be posturing from the PA? I have a feeling that Bettman and the owners aren’t keen on opening negotiations with Fehr anyways :D

          • HalifaxHabs says:

            yeah the question is, does Bettman want to risk his “legacy”… I laugh when I type that, but I’m sure to him, and most of the miilionaire/billionaire owners, he’s doing a great job, other wise he wouldn’t gotten that huge extension.

            So yeah, does he want to risk his legacy by going head to head with Don Fehr?

  19. 24 Cups says:

    I guess (and hope) the role of any competent GM is to do a little backward mapping when it comes to budgeting for the salary cap. Let’s take a peak at what 2012-13 might look like. (I’m going to make the assumptions that the Habs will sign Gorges long term for 3.5M which is a maximum estimate and that Engqvist will fill out this year’s roster as the 22nd player)..

    That would mean that the Habs will have 11 players signed for next season at a cap hit of 41.5M. I’m going to round off next year’s cap to 66M. That leaves us with 11 players to sign with 24.5M in salary space.

    Let’s bring in Subban at 4M. Price will be very tough to sign and will follow the lead of Rinne in Nashville who might get 6M a season. I figure that Price will demand and receive 6.5M. That leaves us with 14M and 9 spots to fill on the roster. (We also pick up 500,000 on the Laraque buyout)

    UFAs = AK46, Moen, Darche, Spacek and Gill.

    RFAs = Emelin, White, Engqvist and Eller.

    Please Note: Hab fans like to mention that players such as Spacek will be coming off the books. That may be true but you still have to fill out his roster spot with a salary. That could range anywhere from 525,000 to 900,000 for a rookie or over-the-hill journeyman.

    I’m not sure that you can realistically go much further at this point in terms of making any more assumptions. But here goes. If AK stays, he would get at least 4M. That would leave 9M for 8 spots and a 1M cushion. Emelin, Eller and Gill will almost certainly be over a mil each. We would surely then be hard pressed to fill out the bottom of our roster with decent talent so that we would be in a position to challenge for the Cup. That could all change if we jettisoned one of our higher salaries by making a salary dump and redistributing that extra cap space.

    A point to ponder as we move forward to next season.

    http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=2

    • mdp2011 says:

      Lets not forget that the CBA expires after this coming season, so any projections about cap space is a moot point. First off, we don’t know if there will even be a season next year and have no idea what the new CBA will be like.

    • adesbarats says:

      Very good assessment 24. My hope is that Gomez will have a solid performance this season making him much easier to unload. That plus his high cap hit vs real salary should make it such that we have a bit of leverage to actually get something in return. That will free up a lot of cap space to take care of meeting the challenges you astutely highlight.

      • shiram says:

        If Gomez has a year that makes him worthwhile trade-bait, do you think PG will trade him??

        If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

        • Cardiac says:

          He’d be a fool not to… Right now, Gomez’s contract and his game are like syphilis to other teams.

          The problem is we are really thin at center as it is. Would you be comfortable with Eller or Desharnais centering the number two trio?

          “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
          – Jerry Maguire

          • shiram says:

            I like Eller, I see the Habs future in this guy, well a part of the Habs future. But he has not done anything yet that warrants him a spot as a top 6 center.
            17 points last season, is less than half of Gomez, of course you factor in TOI and PP, but still.
            If Gomez bounces back up to 60 points, I think that’s a decent top 6 center production, his cap hit would still make him overpaid, but if there’s no clear replacement for a top 6 center, I think PG might want to keep Gomez a while longer.

            If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

          • G-Man says:

            DD and Eller play against 3rd and 4th liners. Can they compete against 1st and 2nd lines and #1 and #2 D pairings?

        • Mats Naslund says:

          Even if Eller isn’t ready, you could replace Gomez for a fraction of the cost. That shouldn’t even be a concern. Unload the contract – figure out the replacement either via free agency or trade.

          • G-Man says:

            So, throw Gomez under the bus yet again? He will rebound. Pleks had a crap season followed by a good one. Why can’t Gomez do the same?
            I below average season and any player should be tossed? If that were the case, Price would be long gone.

          • Cardiac says:

            @G-Man

            The reality is he is getting paid Stamkos/Crosby money. Unless he scores Stamkos/Crosby points, he will be nothing more than a salary cap burden.

            “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
            – Jerry Maguire

    • Mats Naslund says:

      I have to believe that Gomez gets moved next year as his actual salary moves under his cap hit. That would allow Gauthier to sign his young stars and fill out the roster.

    • habaddict_andy says:

      it looks to me the best way to fill in the rest of the roster is to call up from the farm. AK46 is unlikely to come back next year unless we want an expensive 3rd liner. So Hamilton will likely be more under pressure to perform better and elevate the kids developments.

      Go! Hockey! Go!

      • TorontoHabsFan says:

        Totally agree. Barring a Gomez trade/buyout we have 5 of our top 6 locking in for the next 3 seasons (Plekanec, Cole, Gionta, Gomez, Cammalleri). We’re going to have to fill in the bottom 7 with young guys currently on the roster and a couple guys from the farm.

        • habaddict_andy says:

          So it wouldn’t be surprising if the Habs drop a little next year from the standings due to the growing pains of the youngsters.

          Go! Hockey! Go!

  20. Cardiac says:

    I think the $2 million Gomez’s cap drop and the $3-5 million we’ll save on not re-signing Spacek and/or Gill will be sufficient enough to sign Price and PK at reasonable numbers.

    “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
    – Jerry Maguire

    • shiram says:

      Gomez’s salary does drop, but the cap hit remains the same.

      If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

      • Cardiac says:

        Really? So the salary drops to 5.5 but the cap hit is still 7.35?

        “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
        – Jerry Maguire

        • HalifaxHabs says:

          exactly… and same thing when it drops to 4.5 the year after.

        • shiram says:

          Yea, you got it, that’s they way it works, they average the salary over the years, and that gives you the cap hit, and that’s what counts against the salary cap.
          Capgeek.com is awesome for all the kind of info.
          And as HalifaxHabs said, if his salary dips below the capgeek, it could make him interesting to teams trying to reach the cap floor.

          If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

          • Cardiac says:

            Thanks for the input. I’m at work and capggek is blocked for some reason so i’m going by nhlnumbers.com.

            “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
            – Jerry Maguire

          • B says:

            Since you are blocked, here are the details:
            SEASON AHL SALARY NHL SALARY CAP HIT
            2007-08 $10,000,000 $10,000,000 $7,357,143
            2008-09 $8,000,000 $8,000,000 $7,357,143
            2009-10 $8,000,000 $8,000,000 $7,357,143
            2010-11 $8,000,000 $8,000,000 $7,357,143
            2011-12 $7,500,000 $7,500,000 $7,357,143
            2012-13 $5,500,000 $5,500,000 $7,357,143
            2013-14 $4,500,000 $4,500,000 $7,357,143

          • Cardiac says:

            Glen Sather is a moron…

            “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
            – Jerry Maguire

    • HalifaxHabs says:

      Unfortunately, even though his salary goes down, the cap hit does not.

      But that will make him much more movable if they actually want to move him next summer.

      • kitbeyer says:

        Would it be reasonable/realistic for cap hits to be recalculated based on the remaining dollars and term when a player is traded so that other GMs don’t have to suffer the consequences of ridiculous contracts handed out by guys like Sather?

        Using Gomez as the example, Sather signed the original contract at $51.5M over 7 years so he gets a cap hit of ~$7.4M. Gomez underachieves and Sather dumps him to a team that needs a marquee name to attract tentative FAs so Gainey picks him up at the still unreasonable but slightly discounted hit of $6.7M based on the remaining $33.5M over 5 years. Gomez continues to struggle but his cap hit (if acquired by another team) keeps dropping and so Gainey’s replacement, Gauthier, could keep him if needed at the $6.7M hit or unload him for a hit of ~$5.8M this summer or $5M next summer.

        Not sure if this will lead to situations where players get traded back and forth over a weekend just to reduce cap hits but I’m sure safeguards could be put in place.

  21. G-Man says:

    That article on the Flyers Salary Cap handling makes me glad we don’t have the “genius” Holmgren running things here in Habsland.

  22. RGM says:

    Let’s say, just for the sake of discussion, that the Habs have a fantastic year in 2011-12. Call it 4th in the East, Price has a 40+ win season, and the team goes to the Eastern Finals (knocking out Tampa & Boston along the way) but bows out in 6 games. Remember, it’s just a discussion point, not a prediction. If somebody wants to put up a counterpoint, in which Carey is the new Tomas Vokoun with a great SV% on a bad team, have at it.

    OK, so under my scenario: do you offer Price the Luongo-esque deal that makes him a Montreal Canadien for life?

    During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.

    • RetroMikey says:

      Face it, Price will be the franchise player and will command big cash.
      You can’t have Subban as the franchise player as well in today’s NHL along with Price on the same team.
      So you sign Price long term and I’ve said it all along, Subban will be traded to a team that can afford him the big dough.
      So fans, enjoy the year with PK, he’ll be donning another uniform after the 2011-2012 season.
      Players don;t care about loyalty anymore, just where the greener pasture is.
      Sad but true.

      “We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “

      • slamtherimtim says:

        trade PK , no chance, he will be a hab until he is a UFA , or they get the farm when trading him as a RFA, but really , no way

      • G-Man says:

        Other high salary contracts will be moved before Subban gets traded.
        Teams CAN have more than 1 player making great bucks. The Habs top 6 forwards are very well paid, just not the $2mil or $3 mil more per season putting them into superpaid department.

      • habs03 says:

        Not sure if your serious? We can EASILY afford both. The Max Price or his agent will take in regards to term on a contract is 5-6 years. That way he will be able to get another huge contract at the age of 29. As for Subban, his next contract is going to be Letang like imo, 2-3 years at 3.5, and than the contract after that might long term 5-6 years at 5-6M.

      • GenerationYHabs says:

        If we we can cough up 7+ mill for Scott Gomez im pretty sure we can find a way to keep Pk on our roster, especially with the recent cap raise.

      • TorontoHabsFan says:

        You’re a strange, strange man.

      • HalifaxHabs says:

        Since when can a team only have 1 expensive player? you know the cap is already up to 64 million for just 22 guys right?

        There is absolutely no way PK gets traded, unless it’s for a star of equal calibre that will cost just as much money.

        If I knew you I would bet you any amount of money you wanted that PK will be in a Habs uniform after the 2011-2012 season. And I would thouroughly enjoy taking your money at the start of the 2012 -2013 season.

        • RetroMikey says:

          The cap goes up but who is going to pay these players? You? Me? The season ticket holders?
          We are still in a global economic meltdown and look at what happened to the LA Dodgers who declared bankruptcy.
          Sorry to say, but we, as sports fans are not going to cough up big bucks anymore when the economy, as a whole is still suffering.
          If the States suffer, we, here in Canada are going to suffer as well in the long term.
          And athletes will still be greedy knowing fans like you will pay whatever cost for them to stay on your club.

          “We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “

          • HalifaxHabs says:

            So you’re saying that regardless of the cap, it’s the Habs who won’t be able to afford to keep them?

            Come on Mikey, you’re reaching now. The NHL had 2 billion in reveunue last year, and the Habs are one of the richest franchises. Last I checked the Bell Centre is still sold out for every single game, and the franchising revenues alone of Habs gear across Canada must be staggering. And then there’s the French and English TV & Radio contracts.

            But in the end, if you end being right about Subban getting moved next off-season becaus the Habs can’t afford him, I’ll be back here to admit that you were right. (eventhough that will kill me)

          • kitbeyer says:

            You know that the salary cap depends on league revenue right? So the only reason it went up is because fans continue to “cough up the big bucks.”

      • RGM says:

        Assuming they can dump the Gomez contract on a floor team after this year, the resultant funds will make it pretty easy to re-sign Subban for at least a handful of his remaining RFA years. Plus, as the cap continues to climb, there are more funds available. Subban will be with the team well beyond his 22nd birthday.

        During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.

      • DD says:

        Crosby Malkin
        Toews Kane
        The Sedin Twins

        Need I say more?

      • JayBee says:

        Are you crazy?

      • habaddict_andy says:

        I believe we can keep him as long he is an RFA. Hopefully by the time he becomes UFA we can afford him to the next Markov or sort of.

        Go! Hockey! Go!

    • slamtherimtim says:

      dont think i would go longer than 7 years , , but if you had to sign him for 10 to keep him , no problem with that, same for PK

  23. 44har48 says:

    I’m probably just nuts but I do have a nack for not overvaluing the guys I love on my favorite teams. I’ll say it again…Price will get the length he wants but he won’t get more than $5M per year, his next deal will be huge if he keeps up his body of work. And no way Subban gets more than $4.25M, maybe $4.5M. Contrary to most beliefs, he still has a lot to learn to leverege all that skill. Again, his next deal should be Markov money if he keeps it up, and I don;t want to know what his deal after that will be. But next year, with dead weight coming off the books, and Gomez actaully attractive to low budget teams, the Habs will have no issue signing either of these guys. And no teams are going to bid them up, just like no body bid Stamkos up, because thats how this game works unwritten.

  24. TommyB says:

    Reading the article on the Flyers, sure brings home the point that it’s not NHL-11 on xBox, doesn’t it? Managing an NHL team has never been easy, and it’s even tougher now since the lockout. So much to consider with every little move. I will give the Flyers some credit here, though. They definitely decided to “go for it”. Didn’t work. Maybe big boss Snyder should keep his nose out of it and let his hockey people run the show. I think Holmgren is very competent.

  25. JF says:

    The Lions in Winter article on the Philly situation was written right after the blockbuster trades of Carter and Richards were made, and at the time was the only really negative take on the deals. The writer makes some good points about salary and Philly’s potential cap problems when they have to sign their new young players to long-term contracts, but the article’s main value lies in pointing out the problem in the way the Flyers are structured. Their defence is aging rapidly, while their offence is extremely young. From the point of view of their defence, and perhaps even goaltending, the Cup window is now, while offensively it’s probably a couple of years from now. By the time their offence is really ready, what will their defence look like? Pronger’s surgery this summer clouds the issue further.

    • JF says:

      Sorry. This comment was sparked by someone posting a link to the Lions in Winter article in response to complaints that a link posted above did not work. So, off topic.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Agree JF, once Pronger is done or no longer useful that entire defense falls apart as well. It is just a peculiar makeup.

      • TorontoHabsFan says:

        What blows my mind is that he’s 36 years old and he’s going to earn $4.9m/yr for the next SIX years!

        If he’s still a top pairing defenceman in two years time I’ll be very surprised.

  26. 7 days until retirement.
    My gift to myself? Oct 26th Flyers, Oct 27th Hurley’s to watch the Habs vs Bruins, and then Oct 29th Bruins @ Habs. Hoping to get those Club seats again.

    2011 Summit. Look Out Montreal! :)

    Shane Oliver
    http://www.Sholi2000.com
    Brandon, MB,Canada
    R7B 2R7
    hockey@sholi2000.com
    Ph- 204 724 8418

  27. TomNickle says:

    With no viable insurance behind Price, a long term deal appears something that the Habs are wanting. I’m saying 5 years $30 million.

    Subban will probably get 3 years at something around $4 million annually.

    • TommyB says:

      Sure puts Price in the driver’s seat, negotiation-wise, doesn’t it. Keeping in mind that the Habs will have to out-bid every other team that will be looking for his services, it may not even be do-able.

      But we must also keep in mind that Price would have to prove himself, yet again, to show he is worth such a huge pricetag. Missing the playoffs, or another early exit, could throw an entire different light on the subject. I’m not one who would put all this on Price’s shoulders, but, I am saying that there are those who would. And there is one more small wrinkle, maybe not so small, and that is the impending CBA situation. Who knows where that is going.

      • GenerationYHabs says:

        I was under the impression that he was still going to be a RFA next year.

        • TommyB says:

          For some reason I am thinking UFA next year. And it wouldn’t be the first time I have been wrong. Price signed a two-year deal one year ago. Wasn’t that his RFA contract? Therefore making his next one the big one?

        • HabinBurlington says:

          He is there will be no one else bidding on him, just as no one bidded on Stamkos. We will be negotiating with Price and agent.
          Edit. He will still be RFA

          • TommyB says:

            Okay, then I am getting too far ahead of myself then. But it still puts him in the driver’s seat, and this is still a very big year for him. He has no competition for the job (no offense intended, Budaj), so he can take the ball and run with it.

    • G-Man says:

      $6mil is a little steep, notwithstanding Luongo’s insane contract.
      Price may certainly deserve elite pay, but let’s see what the playoffs this season bring. He may end up costing more!

  28. HalifaxHabs says:

    Being that this will be Price’s 3rd contract, if he has another year like last year, he’ll cost more than 5 mil/yr. No idea if they’ll be able to get him to any significant term. I guess it depends on what he(and his agent) want to do. If he wants term he’ll get it, if they just want 2 or 3 more years, until Price is UFA, that’s what he’ll get.

    This only Subbie’s second deal, so hopefully we can keep his salary a bit lower. Maybe under 5 million, and I’d be all for locking him up as long as possible.

    Prediction:
    Price gets 3 years/17 million
    Subban gets 5 years/22.5 million

    • HabinBurlington says:

      You got your crystal ball out again don’t u Hal?

      • HalifaxHabs says:

        lol Burly, I kinda want to smash my crystal ball… but I’m willing to wait to see what the Gorges contract looks like before I chuck it out my window.

        • GenerationYHabs says:

          Would really suck to be the guy walking down the street and randomly get knocked out by a falling crystal ball.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Maybe after reading this Hal will look out the window first, of course could be Marchand is the guy walking down the street. I then expect Hal to fire it at his head!

          • HalifaxHabs says:

            LOL, yes I would aim the crystal ball at Marchand if I had the opportunity.

          • GenerationYHabs says:

            The best part being that you can use it to find out exactly when to chuck it, so theres no way you can miss!

          • Garcia129 says:

            I know there are a few Habs fans from Halifax on here (I’m one of them). Have any of you heard anything about the rumor involving Brad Marchant at the Casino here?
            The way I heard it, he was staying at the Marriott (attached to the casino) and came down to the blackjack table in nothing but his robe. He then had to take a piss, and rather than get up to go to the bathroom, he let’er rip right there under the table.
            Has anyone else heard this rumor?
            Sorry if it’s been discussed here already, I don’t often get to read all the comments.

            thanks,

            In Price we trust

          • HalifaxHabs says:

            I haven’t hard that Garcia, but I’ve heard other things. My wife is a dental hygenist, who has lots of clients from his neighborhood, and she’s heard some pretty bad stories.

            In a way, it sucks that a kid from my hometown is such a jerk, but in the end it’s fitting that he plays for the Bruins. Everything is roses for him now, but the Bruins won’t win every year, and things will eventually turn bad for him, just like they did when he came to Mooseheads, and when he got benched at World Juniors. The guy is a classless prick, and thank god we still have Sidney Crosby from this area to represent.

  29. HabsPEI31 says:

    Subby at 25m over 6. Lock him up for a while, and it’s a reasonable salary and term.
    Carey at 25 over 5. This way, he makes the same as Thomas, but less than Brodeur… and more than Halak :) Ward’s is inflated for comparison, as is Lundkvist’s – but he plays for Sather, so nothing new there.
    By then, Spacek’s contract will be off the books, Gomer will be “cheaper”, and the cap should rise a touch.
    Last thing you want to do is give your goalie a massive contract. Unless you’re dealing with a Roy or a Brodeur, it rarely plays out well, à la Lou, Dipietro, and Bryzgalov.

    “Only a goalie can appreciate what a goalie goes through.” – Jacques Plante

  30. Haligonian-Hab says:

    Ask them what they want.. Make the contract so

  31. DD says:

    Hey Mike,

    Can you re-post the Philly article? It comes up as an error.

  32. slychard says:

    Uggg I can’t open the flyer article?!!

    • cheezboie says:

      My armchair GM 11/12 Habs –
      cap hit of 61.419 mill
      leaving 2.881 million for adding sandpaper (cap ceiling 64.3 million)

      Camm 6 – Pleks 5 – Cole 4.5
      MaxPac 1.625 – Gomez 7.357– Gio 5
      Darche 0.7 – Desharnais 0.850 – AK46 (off-wing) 3.25
      Moen 1.5 – Engqvist 0.900 – White 0.625
      Eller 1.27 (Plug into 3rd line center duty when healthy – then White centers Darche & Moen on 4th line & Desharnais moves to LW on 3rd line)

      First call up – Palushaj

      Markov (lefty) 5.75 – Gorges (lefty) (3)
      Gill (lefty) 2.25 – Subban (righty) 0.875
      Yemelin (lefty) 0.984 – Spacek (lefty) 3.833
      Weber (righty) 0.850 (can also use as RW/PP specialist a la Streit)
      Diaz (righty) 0.9

      first call up – Nash (lefty)

      Price 2.75
      Budaj 1.15

      -0.5 Laraque buyout

  33. HalifaxHabs says:

    I am in complete agreement with you in terms of keeping them both, but FYI, this year a “max” contract was around 12 mil/year.

    We definitely won’t be offering Price a “max” contract. But he’ll get a huge deal, that will ensure he stays with us.

  34. habaddict_andy says:

    I have a feeling players know Canadiens will not over pay anyone unless it’s free agency. Players may try and get as many as they can at the same time it will not get ridiculously high.

    Go! Hockey! Go!


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