How (and when) will the P.K. Subban Saga end?

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As the P.K. Subban Saga drags on, Canadiens fans are wondering when – or if – the restricted free-agent defenceman will ever put on a Habs jersey again.

Here’s what Subban told The Gazette’s Dave Stubbs about playing in Montreal:

“It doesn’t matter how many times I step on the ice at the Bell Centre, I have the same feeling every time: my head’s ready to explode, I want to kill somebody cutting across the blue line and I want to score the goal and celebrate. And I’ll do it by any means possible to win a hockey game. That’s how I feel playing there. I’m not sure I’d have that feeling anywhere else.”

Subban’s agent, Don Meehan, told Stubbs on Wednesday that he expects to have talks with Habs general manager Marc Bergevin before week’s end in a bid to move the file along.

“Subject to that meeting,” Meehan said cryptically, “we’d be in a position of being more defined than we are now.”

You can read Stubbs’s column on Subban by clicking here.

Canadiens coach Michel Therrien was asked about Subban’s comments at the team’s morning skate Thursday in Washington.

“Honestly, I don’t want to make any comments about it,” Therrien said. “I’m trying to concentrate on the guys that I got here. That’s my main focus.”

Stubbs’s column is the main feature in The Gazette’s Hockey Inside/Out section this week. Here are some other stories to get you ready for Thursday’s game in Washington against the Capitals (7 p.m., TSN-HABS, RDS, TSN 690 Radio).

Habs add toughness, by Brenda Branswell

Habs learn secret to power-play success, by Pat Hickey

Habs’ travel plans in overdrive after lockout, by Pat Hickey

Caps goalie Neuvirth ready to face Canadiens, by The Washington Post

In new system, Caps must stick to basics, by The Washington Post

Capitals game preview

Two more floors for Habs condo tower, by The Canadian Press

Meanwhile, San Jose signed former Hab Scott Gomez to a one-year deal on Wednesday and he could make his debut in the Sharks’ home opener Thursday night against Phoenix. Read more by clicking here.

And get this, Gomez will be wearing Bob Gainey’s old No. 23 with the Sharks. Read more by clicking here.

(Photo by Dave Sidaway/The Gazette)

783 Comments

  1. 44har48 says:

    Oh my…the PK situation, you all know I have moved on and am ready to do battle without him – I’ll take the draft picks.

    What I still see plainly though, is we are as divided on here as PK and our GM, it’s not changing, and it appears they are not changing their views either.

    This is a tough one, and it doesn’t appear to be moving anytime soon. The Habs have leverege and no motivation to give in. PK feels strongly about his value to this team, which none of us seem to be able to define and agree on.

    • Habsrule1 says:

      I haven’t moved on, and I hope the Habs never get that attitude. Bergevin said signing PK was his “top priority”. I know this is easy to say from where I’m sitting, but it sure as hell doesn’t show.

      If he’s not asking Doughty money, he’s probably asking for a reasonable amount. I totally agree with McGuire. Look at Del Zotto and double it. That’s what PK is worth to the Habs.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

  2. HabinBurlington says:

    Maybe if we all promise not to repeat what we see, Mr. Stubbs could quickly post all the real inside scoops, the off the record conversations with PK and others. We all get 5 minutes to read it, and then the message self destructs, (HI/O server will do this just fine).

    Okay Dave Stubbs, take it away. :)

  3. Propwash says:

    Am I the only one here not too concerned about all this brouhaha?
    This is definitely taking longer than usual of course, but all the numbers being thrown around is just guesswork and speculation. There is no way either party is divulging information on cash or terms. I think right now it’s all haggling at this point, and sooner or later, PK is going to be signed.

    ____________________
    DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

    • Loonie says:

      It’s alarming that they went days without speaking. That suggests that they hit a wall in negotiations.

    • Thomas Le Fan says:

      I’m not alarmed. This team isn’t going anywhere. Shortened season is already a bit of a joke. What’s the hurry to sign Subban or anyone else? Bad mojo if they go crawling to him. Let him sit. Finish last. Draft high. That’s the view from Chelem anyway. Actually got the Pens/Laffs in English last night. Crappy game although I didn’t watch it very closely.

  4. Cal says:

    The ball is in the agent’s court right now regarding PK.
    If the Habs management team stays put with their offer and the team starts winning, the pressure for Bergevin to do something will lessen. If losses pile up, the opposite will occur.

    If there is a trade, the west is where to look for a partner. And the return better be good.

    • Loonie says:

      Last week I said that if the Habs lose the pressure mounts on Bergevin. You disagreed vehemently.

      But today the ball’s in Meehan’s court if the Habs continue to win?

      Interesting.

      And again, Subban is no more obligated to take a two year deal than Bergevin is to offer five years. Neither side is obligated to do anything.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I find HI/O much more pleasant utilizing my excellent but short memory. Each day brings new posts, where yesterdays mean nothing. It’s how we roll around here! :)

      • Cal says:

        I mean that Meehan must do something to break the logjam if he wants to collect his % of PK’s salary for this season. In other words, he has to start entertaining offers from other teams.

        In the court of Hab fan public opinion, if the Habs start losing, there will be calls to sign PK at just about any price.

        As far as I am concerned, if I am MB I wait until Meehan calls. And I stick to the term. PK either wants to play hockey this season or he doesn’t.

        • Loonie says:

          If you’re Bergevin and your top priority is to sign Subban waiting for the phone to ring might not be the best idea.

        • New says:

          I’m not sure about the court of fan opinion. PK is popular. That doesn’t mean PK is Shea Weber. Last year the team gave PK almost 24 minutes a game and finished the worst in recent, middle, and long term memory. The team can definitely lose with PK quarterbacking the defense. If they win without him there does that mean JM, Gauthier, all of them were wrong, is it just good luck, is it the addition of Prust, or is it safe to say they don’t even need PK?

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Morning Cal. I think the ball has been in his corner all along. PK has limited options. Again, I’m not privy to the workings of the negotiations but the question that keeps coming up in my mind is why the agent doesn’t tell PK, we don’t have a lot of leverage now. let’s wait our time and in two seasons we have the hammer and they’ll pay. Over simplistic?

      ———————————–

  5. HabinBurlington says:

    So in tonights game do we see Cole lay down the Hammer on a particular Capitals defenceman, resulting in a hard Lick into the boards for said dman?

  6. habstrinifan says:

    My FINAL take on the P.K situation… as a FAN which is all I am. I coulda been a SOMEBODY I tell ya, but all I am is a FAN which is what I am!

    So please GOD have it end… one way or another.

    So..
    I can watch the HABS in peace! Watch Gallagher and Armstrong and Prust and Galchenyuk who looks like he’s staying and gonna be justifiable staying.

    So..
    I can watch P.K (wherever/however he develops) in peace. He is too ‘different’ a hockey player to be on the sidelines of the league.

    I remember many many times defending Mario Tremblay on this site from those who turn against him because he failed miserably as a coach etc. I do not like vilification of players like that.
    I remember many times sitting on the couch ‘afraid’ of how the Canadiens will fare in the Gardens against the Bruins as I watch the pre-game skate. And often, it was little guys like Mario Tremblay who ‘made it ok’ so that the bigger stars like Lafleur and SHutt will be able to play their game.

    I shall always be grateful as a FAN for what a player like Mario Tremblay brought to the HABS when he was needed. P.K., of course only spent 2 years with the HAB, but I shall always be grateful for those two years.

    So let’s end it. HABS and P.K get together or go your separate ways. If you come to a meeting of the minds… THREE THINGS ARE MANDATORY..a sitdown with last year members of the team … a sitdown with P.K.. a sitdown with everybody. The smoke billowing from the room is too much for there not to have been a burning somewhere.

    So end it! If P.K goes let history be the judge on who was wrong. If P.K stays let proper team management make sure that there’s nothing wrong.

    Now on to Washington! GO HABS GO!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Habfan10912 says:

      My feeling exactly. I hate the mud slinging at PK as well. All I know is what I see on the ice and the guy is the most exciting player we’ve had in many years. If this is primarily a budget driven decision I guess we’ll have to live with that to some extent. It just upsets me that after this long ridiculous lockout we had to endure, here we are with yet another money driven disagreement.
      I love watching PK as a hockey player. He makes us all pay attention when he’s on the ice. My son, grandson and I were fortunate to have been at the Bell Centre the night he scored in overtime against the Flames and did his now famous archery pose. I don’t ever want to see him wearing another uniform but I am really tired of this business side of the game. Really sick of it.

      ———————————–

      • habstrinifan says:

        Exactly. I remember seeing him play live against Ottawa. The one thing I notice dis that NOT one minute was P.K standing still. I mean during stoppages. He was ALWAYS skating around ON HIS OWN. It was very noticeable. Other guys were in a group at the bench.. while P.K was slowly going around the net. It is obviously that nervous restlessness which you see in him jumping up and down during the pre-game stuff. It could grate on others and could extrapolate into an irritant in the room at other times. But fans here are going overboard and if management is allowing the similar backlash from the room as we are seeing from HIO then that is bad management.

        Ooops I broke my pledge. That’s IT! Not another word!

  7. SmartDog says:

    I’ve come full circle on the Subban question.

    I’ve read the articles, looked at the stats, and I think Bergevin is worried more about future negotiations with other players than about Subban. Which is wrong. Subban deserves more than Price or Max got in their bridge contracts. Neither had established themselves at that point – both were still question marks. Subban has been a rock for this team since he stepped on the ice.

    Consider this. What if Subban was on another team and available now at $5 million/year and they were willing to give him to us in exchange for Eller and Weber. Would we jump at that? My guess is: hell ya! We’d pay the money AND give up the players.

    So what’s the deal? Give him a “good” offer. Get him to give a bit of a hometown discount and everyone wins. Unless he’s holding out for something ridiculous like $6 mil. In which case, get as much as you can in trade. But still… if we get equal value back (and Subban is worth a LOT), what are THOSE players gonna cost against the cap?

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • New says:

      Bergevin will do what he needs to do depending on whether he believes his win/loss record will be better with Subban or not. Game wise it is too early to tell so he has to go with what he believes. Right now he believes it will be just fine without Subban obviously, and obviously it is.

      Therrien and Bergevin could trade five Subbans and, as long as the team wins, do just fine. Likewise they could hire five Subbans and be out of a job this spring if the team tanks. It isn’t about Subban or the price of Subban. It is about does Subban make the team better.

      Unfortunately PK had an opportunity to show that the team can lose with him. Bergevin is trying to see if the team can win without him. That was PK’s choice, not Bergevin’s.

  8. Habsrule1 says:

    This whole PK thing has me confused.
    Is it or is it not a big deal that he’s not signed? Can anyone reference a similar situation with the Habs or another team?

    I think another GM would have him signed by now…somehow. My faith in Bergevin is slipping, and ‘m not really sure if it should be.

    I don’t even want to think about a trade.

    Go Habs Go!!

    “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • Loonie says:

      It’s fairly rare. Phil Kessel’s a comparable situation but he was also injured during his negotiations I believe.

      Subban and Meehan know that he can’t make more money annually than Markov. I have a hard time believing they’d refuse $5 million annually. And I maintain that if Bergevin isn’t willing to give Subban that aav over a short or long term deal he’s being foolish.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        One could argue that PK is currently injured with a bruised ego. ;-)

      • Habsrule1 says:

        I’ll always be a Habs fan (I have a Habs tattoo), but if they trade PK, I’ll be just about as upset as I was when they traded Roy.

        Players like him come along very rarely and we finally have one in Montreal. Bergevin better not screw this up.

        Go Habs Go!!

        “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • Ozmodiar says:

      Drew Doughty, last year.

  9. Habfan10912 says:

    Yesterday’s Phoenix game attendance was 8,355. Cheap tickets, well inexpensive anyway, as well. Do you think that some day they’ll have to pay FANS to attend?

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  10. commandant says:

    Max Vasilyev goes to Chicago. Where he writes his latest NHL Happy Hour.

    http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/01/24/nhl-happy-hour-chicago-beer-disappoints-like-blackhawks-goaltending/

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  11. Loonie says:

    A cautionary note to Marc Bergevin…….

    Since the lockout only two teams have won the Stanley Cup without an elite defenseman. The Hurricanes immediately following that lockout and the Penguins who have two of the top five players in the World.

    Subban isn’t elite yet, but he is close to it. Not the kind of player you play negotiation games with and discard because of personal taste if you know what you’re doing.

    I would think that a guy who has a ring in large part because of Duncan Keith would know that.

    • commandant says:

      I’d argue that the 2009 version of Sergei Gonchar was an elite defencemen…. and the Penguins play without him in the first half of that season, and with him after his return is evidence of that.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • Loonie says:

        I have a very hard time calling Gonchar elite in any way other than offensive production.

        • The Cat says:

          Agreed

          [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

        • Ozmodiar says:

          Elite offensive production is what makes offensive defensemen elite.
          :)

          • Loonie says:

            Haha that’s fair enough but he isn’t exactly stalwart defensively and has had trouble since his Bruins’ days with holding the offensive zone blueline.

        • Chris says:

          How so?

          If Gonchar was no an elite player going into the 2008-09 season in anything other than offensive ability, than neither is P.K. Subban one going into this season.

          Sergei Gonchar (2007-08):

          78 GP, 12 G, 53 PTS, 66 PIM, +13, 126 BS, 3:52 PK, 5:35 PP, 25:54 TOI

          P.K. Subban (2011-12):

          81 GP, 7 G, 34 PTS, 119 PIM, +9, 113 BS, 2:13 PK, 3:29 PP, 24:18 TOI

          Gonchar in 2007-08 was easily one of the 5 best overall defencemen in the game. His knee injury derailed him a bit in 2008-09, but he still put up comparable totals.

          • Loonie says:

            Defensively Chris. I don’t feel that he’s ever been near elite defensively. My opinion.

          • Chris says:

            He’s definitely not elite defensively, although he is far more maligned than his level of play over the past 10 years warrants. Gonchar is a positional defender, relying on smarts and positioning instead of strength and speed.

            But he is easily elite in a host of categories: decision making (he had very few giveaways for such an offensive defenceman), shot selection and power, passing (including outlet passes)…these are all traits help make a player a very effective defender. The best defence is to not have to play defence. Like Lidstrom or Markov, Gonchar’s strength is breaking up plays and getting the puck out of danger before he has to spend a minute defending, which you are correct in pointing out that he wasn’t particularly strong at.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I would caution Marc Bergevin also…. if he thought this current roster with or without PK was going to win Stanley Cup this season.

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      Ahem.

      Hal Gill.


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  12. commandant says:

    If you trade Subban…. you will regret it as much as trading Chris Chelios 20 years ago.

    Not a good move for a first big trade by a new GM.

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • Loonie says:

      No kidding. Subban’s the kind of player you’re praying for at the draft when you make a selection.

      If the organizational philosophy is the long view, it might be time to entertain the idea of making cap room for Subban, not shipping him out to avoid deviating from the bridge contract.

    • The Cat says:

      MB knows this too, and while I believe GMing in MTL is a committee thing, I dont see a trade happening. But I dont know what the demands are etc.

      [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

      • Loonie says:

        Does he know it? I would argue that negotiations so far would indicate he doesn’t have a firm understanding of Subban’s value. It’s hard to come to a place like this and say you see something the GM doesn’t because it opens you up to a plateful of criticism and potential ridicule but I really wonder if Bergevin has good understanding of how good Subban is and how well he’s developed.

        • The Cat says:

          That is a possibility, I should rephrase and say “I would hope that MB knows it or has people with decent hockey acumen around him…”

          [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I missed the press release where MB states he is now looking to trade. Thought last we heard his goal was to resign PK?

    • Habsrule1 says:

      This is the trade that I keep thinking of as well. One of the worst trades outside of the Roy trade that I can remember.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • Cal says:

      Depends upon the return.

    • wd40 says:

      Most mind-boggling thing about that trade is that Chelios had logged over 400 games and 300 points as a Hab…. P.K. may very well go on to have a career like Chelios.

  13. Mondou6 says:

    It’s a tough call on Subban, you can see both sides of it.

    On PK’s side, he wants to get paid, especially after missing half a year with the lockout. He’s one of the (very) few talented players on our team at the moment. If they aren’t paying him, who are they paying?

    On MB’s side, he has to deal with a salary cap, so he can’t just hand money out freely. The lockout shortened season makes it interesting, because if the Habs play well without PK, there is suddenly less pressure to sign him. And if we lose a bunch of games over the next couple weeks, it might already be too late to catch up to make the playoffs, so at that point, there would be no pressure to sign him.

    It’s not like the Habs need PK as a star draw, tickets will be sold whether or not he’s on the team.

    The character issue can be debated forever. I believe that winning cures all ills, and I’d rather win with brash talent, than be forever .500 with mediocre best buddies.

    If they trade PK, I don’t think it would be the end of the world, because we really are not that close to being an elite team right now. But if that happens, they better be damn sure to get a haul in return, because PK is one of our only players that other teams covet.

    Ideally, I’d like to see him stay for a reasonable contract. But if he can strike it rich elsewhere, I wouldn’t blame him, and I wouldn’t blame MB for not overpaying to keep him.

    Let’s just see how it all plays out, and hope for the best.

    • Loonie says:

      Eric Engels made a good point yesterday. If they trade Subban or the possibility remains after five games, you can bet your behind that Galchenyuk is staying.

      If the season goes south and there’s no PK or Galchenyuk in the lineup. Why would fans bother showing up for the last ten or so games?

  14. ed lopaz says:

    people discussing the Islanders in a trade might be on the right track.

    Subban’s star appeal would be a good fit for a team moving into Brooklyn.

    Subban and Taveres are very good friends from days at the WJC, and Taveres is the leader of that team.

    The Islanders need a player like Subban on their back end (which of the 30 teams would not want to add Subban on their back end, actually, so that was an easy one)

    In terms of trade partners, I like this one quite a bit.

  15. Loonie says:

    So Bob McKenzie’s comments last night were that he sees a trade coming.

    “Because they’re three years away on term and the Habs want two years and they’re $2.5 – $3 million apart”.

    If we can take him at his word then the Canadiens want to pay Subban somewhere in between $2.5 million and $3 million annually for two years.

    Subban wants somewhere in between $5 and $6 million over at least five years.

    Who’s being more unrealistic in their contract demands here?

    I say the Habs are, but that’s just my opinion.

    Also, it’s getting pretty ridiculous watching the comparables TSN’s using. Del Zotto? He’s an awful comparison to Subban. First, he’s played an extra year in the NHL and hasn’t had a better offensive season yet is on a team with more offensive talent than Subban. Del Zotto’s career high in minutes comes over two hundred short of Subban’s, again, with an extra year of NHL development under his belt. On top of that, he doesn’t kill penalties anywhere near as often as Subban does and hasn’t been anything higher than his team’s third defenseman if he’s that. Subban at worst is his team’s #2 defenseman and is much more likely its number one.

    Tyler Myers is the closest comparable for Subban. Doesn’t mean Subban should get the same contract but Subban should be much closer to Myers’ value than Del Zotto’s in my view.

    Edit: And another point, the contract demands on the Habs’ end indicate they want Subban to take less money than Kaberle, Gorges and Bourque. Hard to stomach that.

    • ed lopaz says:

      I see a trade as a very real possibility, too, Tom.

      I think Subban knows he’s worth 5 million a year, today, and he expects that money for the next 2 or 3 years.

      I think the Habs are being extremely shortsighted on this and they are backing themselves right into a deal.

      Between 4-5 million per season for 2 years would be a nice compromise and let’s get this deal done.

      If Subban refuses that offer, he wants to be traded.

      • Loonie says:

        And the elephant in the room seems to be that if Bergevin isn’t willing to offer that or agree to a compromise like that, he wants Subban gone.

        • Clay says:

          I think 5 is too much. I could live with 4 million though.
          But really – it’s not like I’m paying him, so whatever he signs for is fine. I just think if he won’t play for 3 as a RFA, he’s too greedy. That’s a good chunk of change. The salary cap is lower than last season as well, and FFS, why the f**k does anyone need more money than that for playing a game?

          __________________________
          ☞ The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. ~ Richard Feynman ☜

          • Loonie says:

            If money really isn’t your concern than the bottom line question should be. Is your team better now and in the future with Subban or without him.

            I think the answer’s pretty obvious.

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      I agree with your assesment.

      Other comparables to Subban are Jeff Skinner and Jordan Eberle. (I would actually prefer PK over those two.) Both got $6M long term deals last year.

      However, if Subban really wants $5M for 6 years then I find it hard to see the Canadiens refusing. That is a pretty good deal. It’s what your second tier defenceman gets (Wizniewski, Kaberle). The problem is what if Subban wants a lot more than that.

      A trade would be unlikely to return a player of equal value, given that we would only be trading him because his demands are excessive. They would be excessive to other clubs too.


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  16. The Cat says:

    Somebody tell me why hockey players arent allowed to have swagger and attitude? You’d think PK was worse than Deion Sanders and Terrell Owens. Team unity is important but its not the end all, The first cup winning edition of the modern day Red wings (with Steve Yzerman) did not like each other that much so it was said at the time.

    [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I see your point and understand it Cat. I wonder again if part of the problem was how JM coached/handled the situation in the dressing room. Seems to me from what I have read from Spacek, Gill interviews, that JM essentially allowed the Veterans to run the dressing room and JM said very little to most players.

      While I believe Therrien mis-spoke with using the phrase “I would like to make PK a better person” perhaps he could indeed help in working with all the players to understand each other better.

      If indeed there was a problem in the dressing room with PK’s swagger, I doubt JM did anything at all to help work with this.

      I think veterans here are also accountable, and need to accept the fact PK seems to have a brashness they are unaccustomed to, but he does indeed want to help the team win and he happens to be our #1 defenceman at worst #2 dman.

      The vets need to to be accountable also in this scenario.

  17. bigjames says:

    got this from a tweet from our old friend ryan o’byrne. pretty funny and love to see someone on the habs try that with luchicken or chara…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukj5j5HFFgY

  18. piper says:

    I hope they don’t but if they do trade PK they had better get a couple of high draft picks for him and tank the rest of the year. That way they have a better chance at Seth Jones. Getting Jones is the only way I’d like the deal.

  19. awesomerino says:

    I’m 33 years old, and PK Subban is my favorite position-playing Hab (ie, not Roy) of my lifetime. His talent, work ethic, and drive are unmatched. Consider that his defensive play was regarded as a liability when he was drafted, and he’s since evolved into an elite shutdown defenseman – that is, when he’s not electrifying crowds with his impossible skill carrying the puck.

    For someone as allegedly “brash” as he is, I have yet to hear even *one* inappropriate comment from him in the media. All of his supposed attitude is behind closed doors or on the ice. And guess what? Most players talk s#it in the room or on the ice. And guess what else? Elite players of PK’s caliber *need* a certain amount of swagger and ego. It’s part of their makeup.

    Perhaps you remember that Roy fellow to whom I alluded earlier? He had no shortage of ego, swagger, or attitude. How’d everyone feel when he got shipped out of town? How’d that work out for us?

    I’d urge MB to stop being so obstinate and get a deal done, just like I’d urge all the PK haters to sit down and reconsider this whole ‘hockey’ thing. Because clearly, your understand of its dynamics are utterly, utterly lacking.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Just a point about Roy, he did deliver a Stanley Cup in his rookie season.

      • awesomerino says:

        Yeah well, if PK starts playing with Bob Gainey, Chris Chelios, and Larry Robinson, I’ll hold him to a higher standard. And those are just the HOFers, to say nothing of Naslund, Smith, and Carbo in their primes.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          I don’t dispute the teammates of Roy, but if you watched those Cup runs, Roy earned the right to carry himself the way he did. He was the undisputed top money goalie in the NHL, Conn Smythe Trophies to show for it.

          It was very hard, almost impossible to critique Roy for his attitude as a result of this “proven” talent and ability and how he willed his team to win Cups.

          I don’t dispute PK’s talents, but before he gets the right to have a room like Roy did, it must be earned.

        • Habsrule1 says:

          “(Roy) is the person who carried the team,” Gainey said. “This is the person who shouldered that good team, not great team, and dragged them through the playoffs and won the MVP.

          Go Habs Go!!

          “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • Clay says:

      I kind of feel sorry for you – you missed some great players. I quite like PK, but I don’t think he even makes my top 50. Maybe not even top 100.

      __________________________
      ☞ The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. ~ Richard Feynman ☜

      • Habsrule1 says:

        He is the Habs most exciting player since Lafleur. Of that, there is little doubt.

        Go Habs Go!!

        “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

      • awesomerino says:

        Do you mean I missed some great players in virtue of being too young to see them (’50s-’70s)? Or that I’m not giving the goods (not greats) of the 80s-90s their due? Because make no mistake, Bobby Smith was my favorite player not named Gretzky growing up, I have an authentic Muller sweater, and I was as big a fan of Saku and L’Artiste as anyone. I just really believe that PK is a truly special player who hasn’t even scratched the surface of how good he’ll be, and yet has already managed to be a top 15 all-around defenseman in the NHL, IMHO.

  20. HabinBurlington says:

    So with the Oilers building/rennovating of new arena, will this forever be known as the Shack that Yak built?

  21. CharlieHodgeFan says:

    I guess since we are fans, we get into this stuff, but really, we feed on rumours. PK is loud, brash and annoying. I work with people like that, and am perfectly fine with them. I don’t hang with them after work is done, but we get along as mature, reasonable people. The kid has a ton of talent, so you put up with the extra-extrovert stuff. Any hockey player with upper Kostityn levels of intelligence has to be able to figure that out.

    PK is a potential star defenceman who made great strides last year. Very recently, he was often a liability on the ice. He had his showboat wind-up, and his slapper got stopped because of it. He played to please the crowd, not always to get his job done.
    He then appeared to get over the worst of that. He stripped his game down and began to develop top player approaches to the game. His progress was remarkable, For half a season, he played like a star. This year, he might have begun scoring more goals and producing better stats. He could beat 40 points (pro-rated for a short season), and if Markov gets back to his 60 point range, we have a stronger team.
    If he stays within himself, this year he could score more goals than Moen, unlike last year.

    He has proven very little. You want to see a full season, or a couple of seasons, if you are going to cripple yourself with a big contract under the salary cap. He is not the best player on the team, and he is not in the top ten best Habs D ever. He may get there, but he is still young.

    Logic says Bergevin is on track. But PK seems caught up in status, rank, and greed. His interviews are well scripted, but what’s going on in his non-signing is all about ego. In a league where money is everything, he could be in the right there. He’s an entertainer as well as a player, and maybe that is worth more than just the player he is.
    Look at the residual Kovalev-love around town.

    For now, an important player, the Habs’ number two D-Man, is out indefinately with a case of swollen needs. Treat it as an injury and roll on. It would be great to have him back and it’s good news that the GM and the agent are going to a therapy session together this week.

    • V says:

      EOTP did a solid article recently on PK’s game compared to other defencman. He’s proven he’s compartively very good.

      As for his attitude, I only see what 99.9% of the world sees and I don’t think it’s enough to pass judgment.

      IMO PK is out because two seemingly reasonable sides have not reached a deal. I think they will.

  22. JayK-47 says:

    TSN on twitter is asking for best REALISTIC PK trade scenarios.

    https://twitter.com/tsn690mornings

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Very unusual to see the Toronto Sports Network trying to whip up a frenzy over a situation in Montreal.

      • Izzy says:

        lol….yea I’m sure they wouldnt want to add a little distraction to the habs camp…but this time it was Bob McKenzie…he usually doesnt stoop that low, but when you work for tranna you have to say what the boss would like to hear once in a while

        After Emelin hits you, you get coloring books for christmas……

        • BrianSkrudland says:

          I am as bad a person for laughing at your colouring book comment as you are for typing it. That’s bloody hilarious!

          I suspect you’ll burn for that one.

          ——–
          Use it up, use it all up / Don’t save a thing for later, yeah / If there’s music out there laying in wait / To pounce and drain every ounce if you wait or hesitate, yeah
          TRAGICALLY HIP – USE IT UP

  23. ogilthorpe says:

    Gomez is gone….SIGN HIM …what are they waiting for… Unless,,,,,, Therrien doesn’t want him on the team?????

  24. SlovakHab says:

    If you were Bergevin and NYI offered

    1) Niederreiter + Tavares for Subban + Eller (only because center needs to go back, and who would want DD)

    2) Niederreiter + Tavares for Subban + Plekanec

    3) Niederreiter + Strome for Subban + Eller

    4) Reinhardt + Strome for Subban + DD

    would you do any of the above?

  25. Captain aHab says:

    Not sure when but it will end with him being traded. Not now as he has very little leverage. I think he’ll eventually sign the bridge contract. But MB will then know for sure that he’ll have to trade him as by forcing Subban’s hand and making him look bad, he’ll have very little chance to sign him to an extension or as a UFA later. MB’s hope will be that Subban will be fired up and playing like a man possessed when he comes back to show the Habs they were wrong. Then he’ll get to trade him when his value is sky high.

    In that scenario, MB will definitely be hoping that Tinordi and Beaulieu both pan out.

    Enjoy Subban while you still can.

    —————-
    Me skull and crossbones arn’t the only thing I plan on raisin’ tonight.

  26. HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

    screw a bridge contract sign him longterm now!!!

    Think of it…2 years at 3.5 – 4 million is what MB wants. then they wanna give him his money where they try to lock him up for 4-6 years and eat into his UFA eligability, where they are gonna have to pay over 6- 7 million to keep him. and honestly the management stubbornness to do this bridge contract is not aiding to keep PK in a habs jersey for his career. Sign him to seven at 4.5 and once he reached years 4. 5.6 well hes gonna be a great contract to have because he will be underpaid, then once hes a ufa at 30, you can decide where to go from there, If they do trade him it will be better for the game, and I guarentee habs come up on the lossing side. ala halak.

    This happened in Montreal before with a player named Chris Chelios. Gainey compared PK to chelios in the past, and unfortunately I can see the habs screwing this contract, and end up loosing a future HOF. Once PK is in his late 20s he will own the league and dominate over the younger more inexperienced players entering in.

    Also many teams in the states will gladly take a player of notable african-amercian descent. He will sell so much merchandise and be a mega star if in a market like L.A, New york, or chicago. Those markets will pay him 7 million a season because they will make millions over the color of skin.

    finally… all the PK haters out there are the type of fans I want out of montreal. The media is to blame as always stirting controversy with the guy. The FACTS are!!! He a gym freak, hes hardworking, he plays passion and excitement, and has more talent then any habs defencemen in 30 years. do you want him in montreal, or would u rather see him become a HOF in another city. your choice!

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      More talent than Markov, Chelios or Robinson? I guess it’s possible but he has a ways to go.


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

      • HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

        i was referring to chelios in the 80s. yes more talent then markov, as for the big bird well hes our greatest defence man, but who knows he could be the best ever..

    • The Cat says:

      Good post. Youd think the habs would be willing to change their contract philosophy a little, I mean its not like its been a formula for winning in the new NHL.

      [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

    • Cal says:

      When PK is a +120 in 1 season and actually wins a fight or 20, then you can compare him to Robinson.
      When he is as nasty as Chelios was in front of his net, then maybe you can compare them.
      After all the lockout crap, the Habs don’t need this distraction. PK should have signed a 2 year deal when MB went to visit in Toronto. Do you think MB was happy flying back from Toronto without a signed contract?
      Meehan and PK are over-valuing his services.

  27. sc says:

    PK should learn to put a filter on his yapper. Hell of a talent, but needs to be put in his place. Even if he gets big money, he’s too arrogant and I wouldn’t want him in my dressing room. Especially after this whole debacle. He should shut up and stop doing interviews before he becomes a cancer in the room. If I were a hab, I wouldn’t like how he’s talking… Needs to be told what he should say out loud and keep to himself

    • Stevie.Ray says:

      Give one example where he has said something in an interview that wasn’t a cliche “I’m just trying to get better,” “I just want to help the team win.” or “I’m just going to do my best.” Never! The kid shows nothing but respect in the dressing room. Does it look like he yaps at other teams a lot. Yea maybe, but I don’t know what he’s saying so how do I know if he’s being disrespectful? I don’t, and neither do you.

      • K-hab25 says:

        You don’t know how it is in the dressing room anymore than the original poster. I always love how bad things are hearsay and good things are truth when it comes to PK. Where there’s smoke, there’s usually a fire.

        • Izzy says:

          Absolutely. When Skillsey left, he said the only thing that was ok about leaving Montreal was that he wouldnt have to deal with pk anymore. The other night on national TV when they asked the players if they thought pk made Markov laugh in the room, TWO of the players said…..no…pk really just annnoys him. Where theres smoke, theres fire is the proper assessment. He is bigger than the team when he loooks in the mirror. For that reason alone, he has to go.

          After Emelin hits you, you get coloring books for christmas……

  28. chanchilla says:

    everytime i see Ekman-Larsson play i wish he played for the bleu blanc et rouge

  29. any thoughts towards PK and the team taking his contract to arbitration? what are the steps for this to happen? it seems to me the less painful way to settle business and save face for all involved.

  30. jols101 says:

    Man, Zack Kassian is a terrible hockey player. Wouldn’t want anyone like him on the Habs.

  31. habsguy says:

    Can one of you know it all’s please show me where it says PK is asking for 6 mil a year, didnt think so, shut up !!!@#$%^&

    • Stevie.Ray says:

      From what I have heard, Bergevin is trying to get 2.5m-3m and Bob Mckenzie said that they were about 2m-2.5m apart. That means PK is probably asking for about 5m +/- .5m.

      A lot of people are trying to compare Subban to Del Zotto or Kulikov, but a more apt comparison would be probably Carlson (although Subban is probably a better scorer) in WSH, or Myers in BUF (in the young future ace dman way). Carlson makes 3.8m for years, and myers makes 5.5 for 7 years.

      Subban is a year older than both so I understand why he is asking for long term. It’s also Montreal where players pay the highest taxes, and the players are exected to do more in the communities (which Subban does). This is a guy who always says the right things (despite what people say) and wants to play in a pressure cooker.

      I think we should give him a similar contract to Pacioretty. 4.25-4.75 for 6 years sounds good to me.

  32. Chris says:

    Reading that interview, I think there are some lines in there that must have had Meehan shaking his head. Meehan should invest in some PR training for his star client.

    It’s pretty obvious here that the driving force behind the impasse is Subban and what he believes he is worth and/or entitled to. I have no problem with this…it is his life. He can sell his services for whatever price and/or term he sees fit. It’s not my money, and it certainly isn’t my career.

    As for Bergevin, I suspect he is much less the problem than the Canadiens ownership on this particular negotiation. Bergevin does not strike me as lacking the guts to sign Subban to a long-term deal if that is what it takes. But he can only negotiate contracts approved by his ownership group, as it isn’t his money either. ;)

  33. Hockey Bob says:

    Goodbye PK you will never pull on the CH again, I am sure since you are a legend in your own mind we can get the stars and the moon for you in a trade.

  34. The Jackal says:

    Does anyone else think it’s ridiculous that the one player who openly says he LIKES the pressure in Montreal and wants to play in that atmosphere is the one player who we are reluctant to give a long-term deal?

    What the hell gives? If I was MB, I would sign PK yesterday to a long-term deal and say F yeah, this guy actually likes the pressure, he thrives here. What’s the bloody hold up? What is MB thinking? That’s the more important question IMO.

    Not all oysters produce pearls, thankfully, Price is a pearl producing oyster.

    • The Dude says:

      Reminds me of the last 20 years of the Habs going the wrong way on a one way street….nothing changes!

    • H.Upmann says:

      Pk woukd say that anywhere he plays, its just PR. Hes a good talker and salesman. But when he says he should be pay what he THINKS hes worth rather than taking a contract to PROVE his worth, then Im inclined to think its less about playing for the team than actual figures. Call it speculation if you want. Thats my view.

      • The Jackal says:

        I don’t think that’s PR, he’s been a Habs fan before he was drafted, and he is loves playing for the team. You can also tell he relishes the opportunity by the way he plays (always 100% and is a top player) and how he embraces the media spotlight in Montreal. Considering that not many players handle that atmosphere well or may prefer a less crazy market, and considering how good he is and will be, it makes perfect sense to sign him long-term.

        Not all oysters produce pearls, thankfully, Price is a pearl producing oyster.

  35. Chris says:

    To those that produce lists of stats for defencemen making $5-6 M to justify a big contract for Subban, I offer the following in rebuttal:

    Kevin Shattenkirk – $875,000 for 43 points, +23
    Nick Leddy – $900,000 for 37 points, -12
    Oliver Ekman-Larsson – $900,000 for 32 points, E
    Ryan McDonagh – $875,000 for 32 points, +25
    Jake Gardiner – $875,000 for 30 points, -2

    In that list, Subban shouldn’t get much more than McDonagh’s $875,000. McDonagh produced nearly the same offence (despite being a guy with “limited offensive potential”) and was one of the best defensive defencemen in the NHL. Subban’s point total was comparable to all the guys above.

    The knowledgeable hockey fan can of course see that I am being exceedingly facetious here. But the point is valid: context is important.

    Comparing Subban’s numbers to guys who earned their salaries as unrestricted free agents or in exchange for years of their unrestricted free agency is a shell game.

    The only high price comparable are Myers, Doughty, Phaneuf, Karlsson, Meszaros and Yandle, as these are the only contracts that were signed by guys that were 25 or younger when they signed their deals. But of course for every contract like that, there are 5-10 of guys signing bridge contracts worth a lot less.

    I’m not saying Subban doesn’t deserve a big raise, and he is entitled to seek whatever he wishes. But you can use “comparables” to basically slot him anywhere you want between the league minimum and $8,000,000 per season if you ignore the context of why those contracts are structured the way they are.

    • The Jackal says:

      You’re only looking at points, which are very superficial if you’re making those comparisons. In an in-depth comparison of impact, Subban is in the elite category.

      Not all oysters produce pearls, thankfully, Price is a pearl producing oyster.

    • The Dude says:

      Is P.K. not the best Dman on the habs cause I believe he was last year and with a bad back . So based on that maybe Markov,Gorges and Crapthebed can share booty!

    • Garbo says:

      That list is a joke. You actually think any one of those players have the same value to their team as Subban?

      Would you trade Subban for Leddy straight up? Gardiner?

      Didn’t think so.

      • Chris says:

        I would trade McDonagh for Subban, straight up, if I had to. I think they are equivalent talents.

        As I stated, the list is facetious. My point is that people can not ignore context. Comparing a contract signed as a UFA to a contract signed as an RFA is just pointless.

    • Stevie.Ray says:

      I say Carlson is the closest comparable, but I think Subban is better, and Carlson is underpaid

  36. Adidess says:

    @deuce6, sorry on IPhone, can’t reply through thread directly.

    When was the last time a player told his GM, please pay me according to what’s good for the team? This doesn’t happen people!

    The ‘hometown discount’ (which is heresy for the most part) applies when guys are signing max contracts or are at the end of their career when they value stability for their families over an extra $500K.

    Give your head a shake. MB is trying to do what’s good for Molson and Meehan is doing what’s good for his pocket and PK. No good vs evil in this discussion. Nobody is holding out in the best interest of the masses. No need to get carried over selfishness, especially if you want to apply it so selectively.

    • Yukon B says:

      I would imagine there are all sorts of players who have given home town discounts across the league, ever wonder why a veteran or an established player comes out of a negotiation and people go “boy did the GM ever get lucky” FYI gm probably did not get lucky, player was nice about it. I doubt anyone would advertise this as the player would get in trouble with the union brotherhood and the agent would lose face.

    • deuce6 says:

      Actually, Meehan told PK to sign what Bergevin is offering..PK is being the stubborn one, if this news, is indeed, true..

      ——————

      Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

  37. B says:

    So if Del Zotto is a “ridiculous comparable” because he is not a “prime Rangers D prime defenceman on the Rangers depth chart, not a No. 1 or No. 2 rearguard expected to play monster minutes…”. Who would be the Rangers comparable then? Girardi at $3.325M (and almost 2 min more TOI/G than Subban last season)? I have a feeling Subban would not like that comparable either.

    –Go Habs Go!–

    • Chris says:

      Or how about McDonagh on his entry level contract.

      I’m still revelling in how well McDonagh did last season after being told for years that he had no offensive potential and that he was a bust who might be a journeyman defenceman or whatever other nonsense was spewed on here about him.

      He is basically perceived as one of the best defensive defencemen in the NHL today. That trade is going to climb into the pantheon of worst trades ever if McDonagh puts together another decent offensive season and demonstrates that last year wasn’t a complete fluke I actually think it was a fluke that he got that high. But 20-25 points (prorated) and superstar-defensive play is achievable.

  38. CCL says:

    For what it’s worth. I have a feeling PK is gonna be traded. MB is waiting for the right deal to come along.

    • B says:

      I hope they work it out and would like to see Subban stay. If they can’t agree this season and there is no offer sheet, then perhaps they can just take him to arbitration after this season? I don’t think they ever get more than a 2 year deal out of arbitration.

      –Go Habs Go!–

  39. Yukon B says:

    Although all agree he is an important piece to the CH puzzle, the problem lies with quantifying exactly how important that is. I have seen some people try to argue he is equivalent to Shea Weber, while others have called him a bum and a cancer in the room. I can just imagine that Bergevin and Meehan have a version of that debate every time they meet. As a die-hard CH fan I would hope that whatever deal gets done is what is best for the TEAM long term. If the team has to pay too much and the contract becomes an anchor, it will do nothing for PK as well as the team, likely dooming us fans to several years of mediocrity and a Gomez like end to his story. My wish would be that he cares enough to give the team a home-town discount like so many others across the league do, and in doing so once and for all send a message he is here for TEAM glory. In short, a workable deal needs to be put in place and if that isn’t possible ship him out and move on.

    • deuce6 says:

      Agreed…How do you build a solid foundation with players like Subban asking for the moon? IMO, he is a part of the core of the team in which we will be building around, but I’m not so sure its best for the team to go forward with a player that thinks of the name on the back instead of the crest on the front..

      ——————

      Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

      • Yukon B says:

        Yes, it is all about the foundation… being able to put a group together that has a chance of winning. If any team knows the perils of over-paying and mediocrity it should be the CH. I have seen a few people questioning why anyone should take the home-town discount. Simple answer always is: because he likes the situation and wants to win.

      • The Jackal says:

        He’s not asking for the moon, he is asking for a long-term deal. How ridiculous is it that the one player who has said he LIKES the pressure of playing in Montreal is the player that the GM is wrestling with? MB is losing points.

        Not all oysters produce pearls, thankfully, Price is a pearl producing oyster.

        • Yukon B says:

          Although we have no real idea what he is asking for, I would imagine he is asking for enough to make this thing a difficult transaction.

          • The Jackal says:

            I think in this case, what he is asking for is well worth it. He is that good. MB should recognize this and stop playing hardball. Anything under $6M is reasonable.

            Not all oysters produce pearls, thankfully, Price is a pearl producing oyster.

  40. Dirtsteed says:

    Being from the Toronto area I have seen PK’s family around the rink (especially at games where Malcolm was in net).

    Don’t underestimate the influence the PK’s father is having in this negotiation. I have a feeling the PK is taking advice from his father instead of Meehan.

    • H.Upmann says:

      I have the same feeling.. I remember reading bout Meehan meeting PKs parents early in the summer. I dont doubt for a second that his dad knows that his sons are can be branded. Seeing that Hyundai commercial reinforces that belief for me.

    • The Jackal says:

      Man, this has to end, so these ridiculously speculative comments end too.

      Not all oysters produce pearls, thankfully, Price is a pearl producing oyster.

    • Adidess says:

      The only fact I will grant you in what you just said is that you may have seen them at the rink.

      To extrapolate from the father’s interactions with the kids and say he’s probably the one advising PK instead of the agent is pure speculation (not to say BS). Having seen them together at the rink can in no way allow you to know that. Group think is such a dangerous thing, I tell ya!

  41. Shadows says:

    Well, if the numbers are correct and the Habs only have 2.7 mil after Galchenyuks bonus, pending he stays up with the team… then MB does really have a tough decision. Let’s say he wanted to keep Gally up, he may have offered PK 2.7 for this year… which is obviously too low. If they do have 6.7 mil to work with, then a bridge contract or long term contract is definitely viable. Yet without the inside information on what’s going on.. it’s hard to place blame and I can’t get mad at either side…

    4-4.5 seems reasonable, yet that would mean no Gally this year… or so it seems with my limited knowledge on the subject.

    at least there is a game tomorrow.

    • deuce6 says:

      Gally’s base contract is for 925K and the rest is bonuses….Even if he achieves those bonuses, which I doubt in a shortened season, then the Habs can go over the cap by 7% of the cap ceiling to be able to fit bonus money in and whatever the amount they go over gets taken off of next year’s cap…Gally’s contract is insignificant..

      ——————

      Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

  42. axxerd says:

    I’ll keep this simple.

    Subban deserves whatever it is he is asking for (I don’t believe it it astronomical). You know why I believe that? Because my 2 year old son not only has a Subban jersey, but he has a PK freakin Subban plush toy.

    The Habs make enough from PK’s marketability that when combined to his performance thus far in the league, he is worth it.

    Don’t mess this up Bergevin..

    —-
    Newfoundland’s biggest Habs fan. Hands down.

    • deuce6 says:

      No disrespect, but I doubt Bergevin isn’t worried about your kid’s swag in getting PK to sign a reasonable contract..lol

      The Habs will still be a money making juggernaut without PK…We have plenty of marketing besides PK..

      But, yea..Putting the box car before the engine would be a real great way to build a champion..

      ——————

      Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

      • B says:

        I agree. The Habs don’t exactly need Subban to sell tickets or interest Montrealer’s in hockey. On the flip side, Subban is getting some decent endorsement deals for being a famous and popular Hab’s hockey player. I wonder if he would have got the same kind of endorsement money as a Predator or Blue Jacket?

        –Go Habs Go!–

      • axxerd says:

        Maybe you missed my point…

        This isn’t about my kid, but about the fact that PK is already being marketed more than most of the team. He is making the team big bucks, and he knows it. That is why he wants, what he calls, fair pay.

        Not every Hab has these sorts of items with their face on it, and none of them had it after their 2nd year in the league.

        PK deserves the money.

        —-
        Newfoundland’s biggest Habs fan. Hands down.

  43. turbodragon says:

    The key factor that people do not seem to be considering is that P.K. is a Restricted Free Agent. He is worth what people are ready to pay for him. Because of his RFA status, other teams would have to offer compensation and thus are less inclined to make him an offer, thus reducing demand for his services. What’s more, since the compensation varies with annual salary, once again the salary he can command goes down.

    Simply put, the same defenceman will make less money if he’s a RFA than a UFA, anywhere in the league. Because of that, Subban should accept the bridge contract he’s offered.

    • deuce6 says:

      I doubt any team would want to offer sheet a young stud of the Habs considering we are one of the richest teams in the league…We will match pretty much any offer unless its too outrageous and we get compensated well, but Bergevin will remember it when that offer sheeting team’s young studs become eligible for offer sheets…

      Besides, if this news is true, I’m pretty much done with PK..I don’t want a “me” player on this team..I had enough of that with “The Enigma”..Alex Kovalev..

      ——————

      Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

  44. H.Upmann says:

    Didnt NYI tried to give all sorts of draft picks to CBJ for 2nd pick to try and nab a Dman? Id trade PK to them for all those picks plus Nieddereiter

  45. Adidess says:

    So the Antichambre guys would know this how? Oh I see, Meehan is secretly undermining his client by confiding into MB that it’s PK being intransigeant, not him. Totally believable!

    The other thing that makes me laugh is so many fans expressing outrage over PK’s demands for $6.5M per year. Are people really this gullible or they’re just pretending to be?

    Who is the source for that number? How do we know his demands aren’t for $3.5 or 4 mil, and the hold-up is from the other side? See, I just made up these numbers. Nobody knows.

    • Phil C says:

      In a radio interview on Sportsnet, Meehan was asked what he thought a good comparable would be. He named Hall, Eberle, Skinner, Seguin, and Evander Kane. All have 6+ years contracts ranging between $5.2M and $6M for a cap hit. Then he went on to say how defenseman are even harder to find, and that these contracts set a precedent for second contracts for players like PK.

  46. Boomer says:

    Don’t we have to re-sign DD next year too?

  47. ponyboy says:

    First great interview by Stubbs. Second there had to be more than meets the eye with this negotiation. There is a glut of similar dmen on the roster (Diaz, Weber, Kaberle). By chance do you think there might be a touch of showcasing going on and finding out what they have to possibly trade? Diaz looked great with Markov, hopefully Weber draws in at some point. With the Habs schedule being more relaxed than other teams this first week or so maybe they are patiently waiting for someone to come knocking for a dman. PK will be signed by the Habs, my gut is telling me there is more than meets the eye….

  48. UK-HAB says:

    I LOVE Subban as a fan – He’s a great player to watch and interesting to listen to off the ice. We have a better team with him in the lineup.

    However, I do not believe they should give in to his contract demands. No one is bigger than the club, and that should be an important fixture of MB’s tenure. We need to re-instate the sense of pride that should surround this club, and that needs to start with players actually wanting to be here.
    MB will be offering fair money, based on what PK has done, is capable of over the next season or so, and what is being posted around the league for comparable defensemen. He is also wary of handing out another albatross from which we are already buried under. I for one, whilst would love to see PK back in the team, hope MB sticks to his guns.

    • The Dude says:

      But it’s ok to bend over for Price ,Markov,Kaby,Plecs ,Gorges ,Gionta and Cole…..really?

      • deuce6 says:

        Those contracts came with a UFA premium…PK is coming off of his EL contract and has no leverage and is certainly not worth what he thinks he is worth…If he wants 6M+ on long term, send him elsewhere..He has his whole career ahead of him to earn the big bucks..Its his sense of entitlement that is rubbing me the wrong way…This news just lost a lot of respect from me as a fan…He isn’t buying into the team concept by demanding “His market value”..Whatever he thinks it is..Let him sit until he gets his head out of his arse or use the option of trade..

        ——————

        Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

      • UK-HAB says:

        How many of those contracts were handed out by Bergevin? Only Price’s.

        • The Dude says:

          And his is based on potential as-well………and it worked wonders for Carey.

          • deuce6 says:

            Potential means squat when you are in contract talks..
            ——————

            Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

          • UK-HAB says:

            My point is that I am happy that M.B. appears to be making a conscious effort to re-instate the power and pride of the club as a hockey institution. Little things, like covering the CH in the locker room whilst reporters are in there, whilst token gestures, show that this is something that he intends to permeate throughout his decisions. Like other people on this site are commenting, Subban appears not to be “buying in” – something that needs to happen in this new regime. Also something I think Therrien would be making his feelings clear on.

            Carey was in a very different situation – not his first contract, has proved himself as a legitimate number 1 etc. Subban is coming off his entry level, and is just one of a number of young defensemen coming through. The best one? Certainly, and the difficulty regarding the situation is why no decision has been made either way.

            Look at all the young players we have coming through. Bergevin cant cave in on the first of what will be many RFA contracts over the next few years…

          • The Dude says:

            PK’s proved to be the Habs best Dman and as a very young athlete.

        • habsguy says:

          mckenzie said 2 OR 3 apart, you do the math!!!

  49. PeterD says:

    Good read the Subban piece by Stubbs.
    Couple of thoughts…
    I really like PK’s self-confidence and honesty…he is not cut from the mould of what many think hockey players should be (ala Scott Gomez – remember his attitude after PK scored and celebrated last year, Don Cherry, Mike Richards, Jof Lupol, and many Bruins)…this is all the more reason to love this guys attitude and swagger, cause if those guys listed are his detractors, them I have to consider the sources. I can’t take a guy like Gomez or Richards seriously when they get upset with PK’s brashness and swagger…that is what makes him go and that is what makes him successful.
    PK is a star in this league and for the Habs…he is in fact our franchise type player…may not be up there with Malkin, Crosby and a few others…but on a lackluster, bland team with no established superstars, PK is the closest thing we have to a young up and coming star player. SUre there are some quality older guys looking at their last contracts and fading fast (Cole, Markov, Gionta) but these guys are the present Habs, not the future of this team, PK is and a huge part of that potential future…Sure there are a few guys up and coming like Price and Patches, and its still too early to label AGally27 a superstar, but by the time he is PK’s age we will be looking at trying to sign him to a lights out contract as our franchise player…at least we can hope.
    I think MB should offer PK the money he wants and settle for a compromise on term…give him $4.5M per for 3 years….the money is equal to PK’s current worth to the organization and the carrot to make a bigger reward down the road after the 3 years is still there.
    But if MB wants to get PK signed for Del Zotto money, he is making a very bad decision on his first big contract and we will see PK leaving to another team either through trade or offer sheet.
    And that my friends would totally suck from a Habs fan base perspective.
    I give this so called “Subban Sage” two to three weeks max from here and after that if there is no movement then I would expect an offer sheet from one of the other 29 teams that would love to have this stud on their team.

    • CanadienBoy says:

      Price will and is a star franchise player and u know what this could be is big years for top 3 goalie

    • habsguy says:

      I agree, we FINALLY have a player that we can build around, one who wants to play and win here, and people here keep throwing 6 mil around, does anyone really know what his agent wants , does anyone here really know what MB offered

  50. JF says:

    According to the guys on L’Antichambre, Subban refused to take the advice of Don Meehan, who wanted him to accept a two-year contract. If this is true and Bergevin is not willing to bend, I can see Subban going elsewhere, via either a trade or an offer-sheet, despite his alleged love of playing in Montreal:

    http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/355208.html

  51. longbow says:

    My only worry is if he signs a bridge contract and then goes out and proves he can be an elite D then his demands for his next contract will be for much more than if he signs long term now. Imagine for the sake of argument wanting 6 per for 8 years now or 8 per for 8 years 2 years from now.

    ” Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm ” – Winston Churchill

    • savethepuck says:

      The difference is that next season, the CAP will only be 64.3 Mil. The CAP in 2014-15 should be much larger due to expected revenues from a complete next season. The bridge contract has to get the Habs beyond next season, and at that point, I have absolutely no problem paying him whatever he is worth at that time based on what comparable salaries are. If other comparable DMen are getting 8 Mil by then, then give him his dough.

      “They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
      Carey Price

  52. Rob says:

    Pittsburgh Penguins: Welcome back fans! Free Concessions!
    Toronto Maple Leafs: Welcome back fans! Free Jerseys!
    Montreal Canadiens: Welcome back fans! We’re trading our best player!

    This would actually be funny if it weren’t so likely to come true

    The Montreal Canadiens: sporting the best AND worst fans since 1909!

  53. RiverviewCanadien says:

    I’ve grown more tired than a one-legged man at an ass-kicking contest, of this whole PK situation.

    Is the team better with him in the lineup…Absolutely. You would be mental to think otherwise.
    Is PK a franchise player…IMO…Not yet. So I would not break the bank at this stage in a rebuild, nor provide a term that would make it difficult to trade. I believe he has the skills to become an elite defenseman (excellent skater, big hitter, powerful shot), but can he?

    I don’t know and it’s not my job to figure that out or take a gamble, it’s Marc’s.

    So far, I like the cut of his jib.

  54. AceMagnum says:

    Bob Gainey’s old number 23??

    Gomez wore 23 in New Jersey when he was actually good. These hockey players are simply a superstitious bunch. I doubt it has anything to do with Gainey… Now if wore Sathers old jersey number…that would be a scoop.

  55. frontenac1 says:

    Gaborik! Hat Trick!

    • Dulljerk says:

      Subban is gone, get over it, and I agree with the move. His only claim to fame is logging minutes on a last place team. Whoopee. Good for him. Looking forward to getting a nice return on a selfish showboat who has made the same mistakes long before getting to Montreal.

      Oops meant this as an answer to the Dudess.

      No eternal reward will forgive us for wasting the dawn.

  56. The Dude says:

    Ok…you guy’s got me going! And here it is ,plain & simple, anyone who thinks young Subban ain’t worth his weight in Hockey Gold is a Hockey Dunce,PERIOD!

  57. frontenac1 says:

    OT in the Big Apple.Rask was flopping around like a fish at the end.

  58. --Habs-- says:

    Honestly, PK is starting to P**S me off! He hasn’t the kind of season yet to say he’s worth 6 mil long term. To be even more honest he’s kind of a hot dog wanna be tough guy who can’t fight his way out of a wet paper bag. His D isn’t that worthy and its not like he’s scoring 20 goals a year! Maybe one day he can play as big as his mouth but he’s not there yet.

    Go HABS Go

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      Guess how many defencemen scored 20 goals last year?

      None.


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • LizardKing12 says:

      First of all nobody officially knows what PK is asking for $ wise all we know for sure is that the Habs want to sign a 2 year bridge deal and PK wants a long term contract. Who cares if he can’t fight, that isn’t his role, not every hard hitting dman in the league is expected to drop the gloves. In fact I’m willing to bet that Habs management would prefer if he never dropped the gloves. As for his D not being that worthy I highly doubt he would be averaging 24 min of ice time per game if he couldn’t play defence. He has had the task of playing against all the top lines in the league and on a 15th place Habs team he still managed to improve his +/- from -8 to +9 last year. As far as point production goes here is a list of dmen making 5-6 mil and how they produced last year compared to PK:
      Boyle: 48 p +10
      Phaneuf: 44 p -10
      Timmonen: 43 p + 8
      Green (32 games): 7 p +5
      Seabrook: 34 p +21
      Burns: 37 p +8
      Visnovsky: 27 p +7
      Keith: 40 p +15
      Wiz: 27 p -13
      Gonchar: 37 p -4
      Carle: 38p +4
      Myers: 23p +5
      Yandel: 43p +5
      Byfuglien: 53 p -8
      Martin: 27 p +9
      Those are all the dmen earning between 5-6.5 mil a season. PK’s numbers 36 p +9. Looks to me like he fits right in. He is playing the minutes attached to being a #1 dman, is responsible for shutting down other teams best forwards and has the numbers that every other 5+ mil dman put up last year.

  59. frontenac1 says:

    Bruins tie it wit 4:40 left. Goal by Horton.Man they have some ugly looking guys on that team.

  60. HardHabits says:

    The bottom line still boils down to what the Habs can afford and that is in the vicinity if 4 million dollars per year over the next two years. Maybe they can settle (as I stated on the other thread) for 8.5 million (4.25M cap hit) over two years; something like 4 million this year pro-rated and 4.5 million next season.

    There isn’t much wiggle room. If Subban can truly be a replacement for a player of the calibre of Markov (and with Kaberle off the books) the Habs would not just be willing to offer Subban more money and term down the road but would also be capable of it.

    As it stands, Subban could be the reincarnation of Bobby Orr. The Habs could still only take a cap hit of 4.25 million without risking going over the cap (if bonuses are cashed) and would have little if any room to make roster moves with the additional hit, unless of course there is to be a fire sale.

    If Subban wants to play so much in Montreal as he candidly states, maybe he should get a new agent. One that wants him to sign a 2 year deal for good money now, because that new agent will have the confidence to recognize that Subban will prove himself over the course of the next year and half and then hit major pay dirt and for a good while longer (as if 4 million a year + endorsements isn’t already a major bag of filthy lucre).

  61. hab fan in leaf jungle says:

    PK strikes me as a Scott Gomez/Andrei Kostitsyn type. Gomez and AK worked real hard till they got that big contract and then just gave it up and coasted. PK will do the same. This is not a guy I would trust with a long and high-money deal which is guaranteed. This guy is no Crosby or Iginla. He is more like Laraque who ripped the Habs off for millions. If he is so great, how come no other team has come up with an offer sheet for him. Bergevin is right to stand his ground. It’s time players acknowledge that playing for the Habs is a ‘sweet ride’. If money is what you want, go play for the Panthers or Lightning or Phoenix or Nashville. Trade this guy and bring in some picks.

    • Komihater says:

      Absurd. He is one of the most energetic Dman in the league and it seems to me that he competes as hard as he can every game. The guy wants to win as bad any all star in the league.

      MB knows what hes doing and im optimistic were going to Lock him up.

  62. Boomer says:

    “It’s come down to this — I want to be paid what I’m worth,”

    respectfully to me it looks like It’s come down to this – He wants to be paid what he THINKS he’s worth…

    Please make a poll asking if Pk is an elite dman in this league at this point in his career. If the majority think so I’ll know it’s just me and shut up.
    I don’t think he’s there yet but has the potential to…

    • ooder says:

      I dunno brandon prust is getting paid 3 million, josh gorges 4 million.
      if i am subban i look at these guys and realise that i am worth way more

      ——————
      The 2010-11 Stanley Cup was not won, but given

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        Exactly.


        Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

      • Boomer says:

        But is he at the same level as a Shea Weber or D. Doughty?
        is it just me?

        • ooder says:

          no of course not, but is he worth brandon prust, travis moen?
          i have no idea who is asking for what so my point is totally irrelevant lol
          ——————
          The 2010-11 Stanley Cup was not won, but given

          • Boomer says:

            mine too I guess I’m just assuming it’s a huge amount but I don’t know for sure. Frustration is probably getting to me. I really hope this works out for the best and doesn’t leave a bad taste for anyone

      • Habtastic says:

        This is a great counterpoint actually. The way you build a team in today’s NHL is by drafting well and that allows you to have great young players for cheap, allowing you to bring in UFAs, which requires an inflated price. You then pay your vets for what they have proven. It drives me crazy that people don’t think Gorges deserves his contract. PK talks about showing up for every game and doing anything possible to win. Pfffft…please. Look at Gorges for those qualities. Point is, PK is disappointing me by showing himself to be the ego-maniac that all his detractors around the league say he is. (And which I defended him against.) YOU PLAY FOR YOUR FAVOURITE TEAM, WHICH HAPPENS TO BE THE MONTREAL FREAKIN’ CANADIENS! Stuff like “I just want to get paid how much I’m worth”, alluding to his off-ice stuff is so hard to hear from a guy you like so much as a fan. He would be nothing without the Habs in terms of his oh so important off-ice stuff. (Yeah, yeah, nice kicks, I get it, Nike!) There are others in his spot who don’t spout off stuff like that, who know they need to give to the team first, and then the team will reward you handsomely. It’s a gesture and in hockey, these kinds of gestures go a long way. None of us know the official numbers, but we do know PK’s philosophy: I’m worth x and until I get x, I won’t accept y (less than x, but significantly more than his last contract) and will continue not to do what supposedly I love to do the most. I get the idea that he loves the idea of how the Habs make HIM look rather than how he makes the HABS look. Play two years at 4.5. Maybe he’s okay with that. I’d do that if I were Bergevin, but I would seriously want to hear a different tone from PK re: his team and in the grander scheme – his organization.

        ————–
        The Drive for 25

  63. HabinBurlington says:

    Big win for leafs. Whodathunkit?

  64. PrimeTime says:

    Some players play for the crest, some play for their teammates, and some plat for themselves. Swallow it PK and take the bridge contract to prove to all what type of player you “will” be. You have time to make the big dough.

  65. PK Subban? Don’t care. He’s not on our roster and I don’t care about those who are sitting at home instead of playing hockey.

    Out of our control.

    They Call Me Shane
    “They never asked to be Canadiens, they were Chosen.”
    Shane Oliver
    Twitter @Sholi2000
    http://www.Sholi2000.com
    Custom Sports Figures

  66. Bill J says:

    Before the Habs trade PK. They will trade DD or Eller. Keeping the Gally’s

    Throw in Kaberle, and win win.

    Then the Habs can afford PK!!!


    Go Habs Go!

    • jols101 says:

      Kaberle for sure but instead of DD and Eller they should trade guys of value like Pleks and Gio. They could easily get a first round pick for either of those guys or a top prospect. Eller is still too young and unproven to have a lot of value and DD has only had one good season making GM’s unsure about him.

      3 first round picks and 3 second picks this upcoming draft and with all of the current prospects, the Habs would be set for a long time. The biggest bonus would be we get to watch Gally squared on the 2nd line with Bork instead of the tired ole Pleks and Gio.

  67. Bill says:

    This has already been linked, but here it is again: Berkshire’s case for Subban as a top NHL defenceman, and it is definitive.

    http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2013/1/21/3884474/p-k-subban-vs-his-peers-habs-montreal-canadiens

    Full Breezer 4 Life

  68. HabFab says:

    Just checked out the latest poll results. Seems the “fighters” are kicking the “lovers” butt!

  69. Stevie.Ray says:

    It wouldtake Neiderreiter, Hamonic, Grabner and picks or Reinhart for me to consider trading Subban. Anything else isn’t enough

  70. Price07 says:

    For the right price I’d have no problem trading Subban. He seems like a pain to be around. Seems like one of those guys that will eventually stir things up and someone demands a trade which puts the team in a terrible position.

  71. kempie says:

    If Bergevin, in his first noteworthy transaction, trades PK Subban, it will be an error of Houlean proportion that will haunt him for the rest of his days. Pitchforks & torches will surround the BC and it will not be pretty.

    • Habilis says:

      He won’t trade him, he’s too smart for that. I hope.

      After reading Stubbs’ article, I’m starting to think that maybe MB is banking on PK’s youth and exuberance. In the sense that he thinks he can outwait him, that PK will want to play more than anything so he’ll eventually soften on his demands. If so, that be a dangerous game.

      • kempie says:

        Agree on all points with some uncertainty about the first one. I want to trust him and I guess we kind of have to. MB didn’t get to be GM of the Canadiens by being an idiot. But it is his first time as a GM and therefore has no track record and that makes me a bit nervous. He was a player, a dman at that, and I think he understands the dynamic here pretty well. I just can’t blindly trust him completely.

        The thing here is, this isn’t a Diaz or Boullion situation we’re talking about here. This has the potential to be more like a Chelios situation. We can only hope for the best.

  72. Habilis says:

    ““Subject to that meeting,” Meehan said cryptically, “we’d be in a position of being more defined than we are now.””

    LMAO! Wow, that means nothing. Gotta love agent-speak.

    Great read, Stubbs. Cheers.

  73. Bill says:

    Leafs 4 Pens 2 and looking good. Continuing the tradition of building early-season optimism in their fans, before falling apart disastrously. I love it.

    Full Breezer 4 Life

    • savethepuck says:

      My fear is if they get off to as similar start to the last 2 seasons, there may not be enough time left in the season for.them to fall from grace.

      “They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
      Carey Price

  74. HabinBurlington says:

    Thanks for the article Mr. Stubbs, I am not sure yet what to make of what I gleaned from that article. May need to re-read it a time or two.

    I can see this article fanning some flames from either side of the argument.

  75. Bill says:

    PK Subban saying all the right things in his interview with Stubbs: loves Montreal, thrives on the pressure, wants to play in a hockey-mad market, just wants to get paid what he’s worth based on comparables.

    Bergevin clearly wants the bridge contract, and EVERYBODY seems to be swallowing the line that Price and Pacioretty took the bridge contract, and so should PK. Well, sorry. Price and Pacioretty are great players and key parts of the team … but after their first two seasons they weren’t as important to the team as Subban is after his first two.

    Subban did much more in his first two years than Price or Pacioretty.

    Bergevin should be jumping at the chance to lock PK up long-term, and if he screws this up, it will be the defining moment of his GM career.

    Full Breezer 4 Life

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Sure your not just falling for his good looks? ;-)

    • Habtastic says:

      I want to see PK explain this directly to Price and Patches. Also, people say Dmen take awhile to come around. What about elite goalies??? And how many games did Patches play when we’re talking about these 2 years in which PK smoked him comparatively? The only 2 years I really remember Pacioretty being part of the Habs were the last two years and it’s a joke to say he didn’t prove as much if not more (see: Masterton trophy). He can definitely make a case for not taking something in the 1-2M range (which was what they got), but 4 is more than enough for two years. Price had a statue of him “built”. Again, say that to your buddy’s face – that you deserve more than he did. I hope he triple high smacks you across your head.

      ————–
      The Drive for 25

  76. HabinBurlington says:

    Hey enjoy your round of golf with Timo tomorrow!

  77. Bill J says:

    HH posted something about 4.25, but I believe that number gets prorated down?


    Go Habs Go!

  78. frozengolf says:

    Capgeek says the Habs have $ 6.775 mil in cap space.

    _________________________________________________________
    “We know that hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death. Life is just a place where we spend time between games.”

  79. HardHabits says:

    And your rounds of booze afterwards.

  80. HardHabits says:

    NHL Numbers has it at 2.754 million if Galchenyuk makes his bonuses. I calculate the Habs can afford about 4 million for this season give or take a few hundred thousand and that is still precarious.

  81. Bill J says:

    I noticed that site calculates Chucky’s bonus as in yearly, I thought was just first year,one lump sum. No?


    Go Habs Go!

  82. punkster says:

    We need a capologist but we’re saddled with apologists.

    ***FREE PK!!!***

  83. duffy says:

    And here comes Glen Sather.

  84. Loonie says:

    He could have already turned down 50 offers for all we know.

  85. Loonie says:

    With the cap going down this summer I think we’ll see a few offer sheets but that’s just my opinion.

    As for them becoming extinct, the Preds may have something else to say about it.

  86. B says:

    For some reason, I don’t think he could get more than 29 offers.

    As a very good late friend of mine liked to say “I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate” :)

    –Go Habs Go!–

  87. Say Ash says:

    Halak. No doubt. ;)

  88. bleedhabs81 says:

    Imagine if it gets to potential trade talks (i.e actual teams making proposed trades)… there will be plenty of fuel to fire “we should have traded him for ____” for years to come for all the anti subbanoids

  89. Trisomy 21 says:

    I lol’d

  90. Chuck says:

    That might be even more effective. :)

    ___________________________________________________
    Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

  91. Strummer says:

    He swims with the fishes.

    ______________________________________________________
    “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

  92. ed lopaz says:

    unless there is a gun to the head of the GM signing the deal that Meehan is negotiating – a gun that I have never seen – it seems to me that the players get exactly what the teams believe they are worth.

    the bad contracts that have been signed are not Meehan’s fault.

    there are a lot of reasons why teams over pay for certain players; for example, in Long Island they were desperate to get a star and they believed they got one in Yashin.

    when players sign “inflated” contracts its the bad GM”s that are at fault.

    if Bergevin thinks signing PK long term to big money is bad for the franchise, then he will trade him to a team that believes in PK.

    But its not Meehan’s fault if he works to get his client the most money possible.

  93. Propwash says:

    Doesn’t a manager make a cut of whatever deal he makes?

    ____________________
    DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

  94. ed lopaz says:

    yes. they make a small % of the contract.

  95. Propwash says:

    So, I’m pretty sure that he overvalues his clients so he can make a decent penny off of them too.

    ____________________
    DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

  96. K-hab25 says:

    Car-eey Car-eey Car-eey Car-eey Car-eey

  97. jmsheehy19 says:

    Can not stop laughing at this line. And that imagery.

  98. commandant says:

    Diaz is a good puck moving option for the bottom pairing. He’s got some skill, just can’t ask too many minutes IMO.

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  99. Trisomy 21 says:

    Whoa there, after 2 games I wouldn’t have been shocked to see Gomez leading the team in points. If I were a Diaz hater I would wait until 4 weeks to consider changing my opinion. Let’s not force crow down anyone’s throats just yet


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