Healthy Price heads into pivotal summer

price-horse

Here’s the iPhone photo Carey Price snapped then messaged last Friday to HIO’s Dave Stubbs, saying he was a little too busy at the moment to return a call. Price was setting out on a training ride in Vernon, B.C., on his Quarter Horse named Fuzz. He says he regularly reads his text-messages – and sends his own – while he’s on horseback.
Courtesy Carey Price

Canadiens goaltender Carey Price spoke exclusively and at length with The Gazette and Hockey Inside/Out Saturday night from his offseason home in Kelowna, B.C.

The 24-year-old happily reported he’s fully recovered from the concussion, compressed spine and sore neck that sidelined him for the season’s final four games.

Then Price spoke about his impending restricted free-agent status; the rodeo circuit on which he’ll compete this summer; the Stanley Cup playoffs; the fate that awaits his friend and fellow Kelowna resident Josh Gorges should the defenceman try anything funny to welcome Price to his new home; and much more.

Read the feature-length story here.

414 Comments

  1. H.Upmann says:

    Not to jump on any bandwagon here, but myself I would give Crawford a chance. In any case, whoever they hire has to fit a sort of plan to have both farm and team in sync…. and something tells me that’s not Roy. But hey, who knows?

  2. frontenac1 says:

    Going with the Yotes and my homeboy Smitty! Arrrooooooooo!

  3. jols101 says:

    Lots of good discussion on our next coach. I would like to switch gears and discuss our dman needs. I would like to see Bergevin take a run at either Matt Carl from Phillie or Denis Weidman from the Caps both UFAs. I was also hoping to round out our D core with a tough as nails 6th or 7th guy. I was hoping for Erskin from the Caps. Love him ever since he pounded Lucy. Erskin has another year left with the Caps at 1.5 million. Do you guys think he would be on the trade market? And who would you guys like to see as a top 5 guy(UFA signing)? Carle, Weidman or someone else. I know everyone will want Suter but cap implications really disqualify the Habs from making a run at him….

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I would like Bryan Allen from Carolina, UFA made 2.9 last year. We could then have a physical Dman on all 3 pairings Subban/Emelin/Allen.

      • jols101 says:

        Just took a look at Allen. Boy, what a monster 6″5″ 226lbs. I would be all for that. I thought one of the habs glaring deficiencies last year (besides secondary scoring) was size on the back end. Too many 5 “11″ dman. Campoli, Diaz, Weber…

      • Ozmodiar says:

        I’d like to see them sign 1 physical D-man like Allen.

        2012 – sign Allen, say for 4 years (+ depth D man on short-term deal)
        2013 – Tinordi replaces Kaberle
        2014 – Beaulieu replaces Markov

        2014 top 6: Subban, Gorges, Emelin, Allen, Beaulieu, Tinordi

    • TomNickle says:

      I think it’s reasonable to say that Beaulieu and Tinordi will be ready for nothing less than spot duty with the Habs as early as 2013-2014. With that in mind and assuming that Bergevin would like to keep Gorges, Subban and Emelin he’s going to have to walk a fine line in free agency when it comes to adding defensemen.

      The cream of the crop if you can call it that in this years class are for the most part in their very late twenties or early thirties. These guys are going to be seeking deals that take them to the age of 35 and will be looking to extract as much salary as possible.

      So for a rebuilding team to sign high priced defensemen seeking significant term when already facing a flooded group of pro defensemen and a group coming to Hamilton consisting of Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis and Pateryn, going after these guys doesn’t make much sense. The prospects will be burning years of restricted free agency immediately unlike the #3 draft pick(provided he isn’t playing in Europe).

      If Bergevin wants to reshape the depth on defense(hope he does) I think it’s more likely that he waits for the dust to settle on the opening period of free agency, makes some trades and goes and gets some role playing defensemen at discount prices and term in late July through mid-August.

      • jols101 says:

        Ya I like a healthy Markov, Subban, Gorges and Emelin as our D core. Eveything else from last year can go as far as i am concerned.
        I wish that Tinordi and Beaulieu were ready to step right in but I think they will need a year in Hamilton. They may surprise at camp and stick around but i doubt it.
        So, the decision for Bergevin is do you try and improve the D by signing a couple UFA’s or do you just bite the bullet and go with what we have and get a high draft pick again next year in a draft that is loaded with high end talent…

    • LNev says:

      Wideman? No. Yuck.

  4. H.Upmann says:

    HIO can expect another +1000 posts the day they announce the new coach. Hey Boone: how bout using some if the bonus money to throw a BBQ and get a keg going? ;)

  5. jon514 says:

    Love seeing Patches playing with Ryan at the worlds. What do we have to give to pick this kid up?

  6. mdp2011 says:

    Crawford, Carbo, Therrien, Hartley, none of these ex-coaches inspire any sort of confidence, sorry I would rather have a Patrick Roy behind the Habs bench than those 4 other guys.

    • habsnyc says:

      The other alternative would be to use an interim coach for a season until a better candidate surfaces.

      Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        No thanks, we saw how well that played out last year. I like Cunneyworth, but Montreal is not the environment to be an interim coach. Perhaps we sign one of these guys, but they get only 2 years max on contract so it is easy to turf’em if they fail. But I don’t want to see another coach given the interim tag here for a long time.

      • TomNickle says:

        Didn’t work too well with Cunneyworth.

        You can’t hire a new coach to start a season on an interim basis and announce that publicly. It would also be a tremendous challenge to find a coach willing to work under that scenario.

        • habsnyc says:

          you are right, i misphrased what I should have said. instead of committing several years to the wrong candidate, they should promote from within until the right candidate becomes available.

          Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

          • TomNickle says:

            We could do worse than Clement Jodoin.

          • habsnyc says:

            Jodoin has been coaching professionally for 20 years. He might be a good placeholder until a slam dunk choice becomes available.

            Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

  7. Cardiac says:

    Tom,

    I feel it’s going to wind up being one of those “we’re going to agree to disagree” situations but here goes:

    FACT: Marc Crawford’s most successful years of coaching (statistically) were with Colorado and Vancouver.

    FACT: Players such as Kamensky, Young, and Morrison benefited from steller linemates. To attribute their success to Crawford’s coaching is speculative at best, which is why I disagree with your point on “getting the most out of his players.”

    FACT: He got a raw deal in LA, 11 goalies in two years, etc. etc. We will never know the true fruit of his labors because he was canned with one year remaining on his contract, which leads me to believe management felt he was not the right guy at the time.

    FACT: Dallas put up big points during his tenure but still finished dead last in their division. What went wrong there?

    FACT: Montreal does not have a Sakic, Forsberg, Roy, Naslund, Bertuzzi, Kopital, Brown, Richards, Eriksson, Morrow, Benn or Modano. He won’t have the same pieces of the puzzle he had in Colorado or Vancouver. Do you expect him to turn Eller and Moen into 60 point players?

    “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
    - Jerry Maguire

    • TomNickle says:

      You have to take the good with the bad.

      The bad is that Crawford’s teams did not make the playoffs in his last four years. The good in my opinion is that while his stars have played like stars wherever he’s coached, that’s as much of a plus for him as it is a negative for a coach when their stars don’t perform(Clouston/Spezza, Ruff/Roy, Murray/Richards, Arniel/Carter/Nash).

      I can see a case being made for Bertuzzi and Morrison benefiting from Naslund’s presence. Obviously it helps though I’m not in agreement that it’s the sole reason for their production. If those two players are paired with a different centreman their seasons aren’t as good granted, but it’s the coach’s job to put his players in the best position, and Crawford does that.

      With Crawford here you won’t see Darche on a Powerplay or Weber on a Penalty Kill.

      You won’t see Moen, White and Nokelainen on the ice with three minutes left in a game the Habs trail by one goal.

      You won’t see players taking shots at our franchise player after a whistle without response.

      He may not be the reason that his star players play to their potential, but he doesn’t allow them to play below it and his history proves that he develops players well(Sedins, Kopitar, Brown, Kesler, Benn, Neal, Eriksson) and gets the most out of what he has.

      • Cardiac says:

        Believe me, of all the names being thrown out there Crawford is the obvious choice. And I happen to agree with all your points on who won’t be playing where. I’m just of the opinion that he’s not that great of a coach that you are making him out to be. I don’t expect any miracles. But once again, MY OPINION…

        “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
        - Jerry Maguire

        • TomNickle says:

          I don’t believe he’s a great coach. I believe he’s an excellent coach who could’ve been great with better goaltending. That doesn’t put him in tremendously exclusive company because that list is pretty long.

          I believe that the Bertuzzi deal has taken a lot of the shine off of an otherwise excellent coaching career and that he at this time is the best fit for this organization even if it’s only to fire him in two years.

  8. Ozmodiar says:

    I’m starting to think that Max 1,000,000 doesn’t want to see Crawford coach the Habs. ;)

    I dunno. I think Marc et Marc and the Funky Bunch has a good ring to it.

  9. shiram says:

    None of the choices mentionned for potential Habs head coach are great/perfect. They all are flawed, and Habs deserve better… That’s why I’m hoping for some unknown to come out and be our saviour.
    Maybe some European coach or something, who knows?

  10. habsnyc says:

    This is a fan forum. I reserve the right to express an opinion that generalizes many facts, glosses over details and ignores contrary evidence. I reserve the right to weigh the facts as I see them and focus on the ones that I deem more important. This is not a debating society, it is a forum for expessing opinions.

    With that caveat, Crawford has won only one playoff series since 1997. The game has evolved over those 15 years since he last achieved significant success. If Crawford chose to coach bad teams, that is his problem. If Crawford had bad goalies, he should have compensated for it in some other way. He lasted only two seasons in each of his prior two coaching positions.

    Some coaches get more than face value out of their roster. For example, Elliot and Halak are not the greatest goalies of all time. They are they beneficiaries of a very well coached system. Herb Brooks beat Tretiak in the Olympics with a college goalie. Dave Tippett is in the semi-finals with a roster led by Ray Whitney and Radim Vrbata. There are coaches in the league who innovate, motivate or strategize their team to success beyond what their roster suggests. In my opinion, there is no evidence to suggest that post 1997 Crawford has consistently gotten more than expected out of his roster.

    Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

    • TomNickle says:

      A 42 win, 95 point season in 2010-2011 with the Dallas Stars tells me he is more than capable of coaching successfully today.

      • habsnyc says:

        Crawford has 12 playoff wins over his last 12 seasons. According to Molson, successful is 12 playoff wins in a single season.

        Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

        • TomNickle says:

          And which available coaching candidate other than Gerrard Gallant has won that much recently?

          • habsnyc says:

            Yes, I agree that none of the available coaching talent is outstanding. There are a lot of tradeoffs.

            Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

  11. Gerry H says:

    “Fact is that he’s a good coach and more than qualified to coach the Habs, at the very least more qualified than any other available candidate.” [Emphasis added]

    Just saying, Tom. It’s that kind of overstatement that attracts critical comments. You’re making it sound as though Crawford is the obvious choice and clearly more qualified than any other option available to the Habs. If that were true, the job of a GM would be easy-peasy, wouldn’t it?

    You offer some interesting perspectives and thoughtful comments, but overstatement is the enemy of constructive debate.

    • TomNickle says:

      So which candidate is better qualified based on their experience Gerry?

      At the very least is a comment to eliminate the intangibles that none of us fans can quantify. Crawford is tied for the most rings of the available candidates and has the most wins as a head coach by a wide margin.

      He has a proven track record of helping to develop excellent young players. Sedins, Kopitar, Brown, Neal and has put his offensive weapons in the best position to succeed.

      • Gerry H says:

        The term “qualified” is not a simple, linear concept. Stanley cup rings and wins are indicators, not qualifications. You are trying to reduce the task of candidate evaluation into a simplistic (and very limited) numbers game.

        Had you said “at the very least Crawford has the most Stanley Cup rings and wins as a head coach of any of the available candidates,” there’d be no argument. But saying that he is the most qualified is a far more subjective claim. That’s why the Habs spent so much time finding and hiring a guy to make that call.

        • TomNickle says:

          Qualifications include accomplishments, credentials and experience.

          Played the game professionally – accomplishment and experience.
          Jack Adams Award – accomplishment
          Stanley Cup – accomplishment
          Has coached 1000 games – experience and accomplishment
          Has been selected by Hockey Canada to coach at different levels on different occasions. – all of the above.
          Speaks French

          Qualifications are to fit or not fit criteria for vacancy in this case. And based on what the position entails Marc Crawford has the most coaching accomplishments, credentials and experience of the available candidates.

          Unless of course Geoff Molson’s criteria includes limited coaching experience and success.

          The only thing holding Crawford back from any coaching job he wants is the Bertuzzi issue.

          • Gerry H says:

            You’re still trying to reduce this to your criteria. Bergevin’s (not Molson’s) criteria may include special emphasis on a certain approach to player development. They may include a coaching style that Bergevin, as GM, feels is best suited to the player personnel he has and wants to develop. The qualifications he is looking for may be less focussed (and perhaps rightly so) on a pre-lockout track record.

            If it was as simple as you make it sound, this GM gig wouldn’t be such a big deal.

            And, BTW, I don’t have a problem with Crawford.

          • TomNickle says:

            Qualifications fit into criteria.

            Crawford’s qualifications for coaching in the NHL are better than the rest of the available candidates.

            The criteria that different GMs have differ which like you say changes who you look to hire.

            With that said, that doesn’t change one bit that Crawford, based on qualifications is the best available candidate.

  12. Mr. Biter says:

    Tough to pick coaches when the # 1 priority is language.

    Mr. Biter
    No Guts No Glory

  13. TomNickle says:

    Since manipulating stats is the name of the game today.

    I’ll go ahead and do it. Crawford’s record in destinations other than Los Angeles is 490-338

  14. Max_a_million says:

    Annals of Marc Crawford: The Coach who sometimes wins, but not often.

    3 times in 15 years did he manage to win A playoff round.

    Three times he did not win a playoff round he had a top 4 goalie in the league in save percentage.

    • TomNickle says:

      And won 7 playoff series in 8 playoff appearances.

      By the way. I love how you included Alex Auld’s 7 game performance in the regular season in your statistical breakdown of save percentage from his goalies.

      These aren’t excuses for not winning a Cup Max, they’re reasons for not enjoying the success that meet your ridiculous standards.

      Fact is that he’s a good coach and more than qualified to coach the Habs, at the very least more qualified than any other available candidate. He’s enjoyed more success than any other candidate.

      If you want to crap on him, go ahead and continue, but you’re making yourself look like a fool.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Having read through what the two of you have written, you each make some good points for the Pros and Cons of Crawford. I admit I was never a big fan of his, but most of that I admit is based on the Bertuzzi/Moore incident.

      Having said that, of the candidates mentioned currently he to me is the most acceptable of the 4, but I still hope Bergevin has a bigger list to choose from. I am not sure Crawford would be bad choice, but also am not sure he is the best choice.

      Enjoyed reading both of your perspectives guys, thanks.

      • LA Loyalist says:

        As others pointed out earlier, the trial is going to be a huge distraction, there is no way around it. Not fair, but reality. We need to weight that in evaluating whether or not Crawford is the one. I’m not taking a position, just throwing that in the soup.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          I agree. Somehow I think Bergevin may surprise us and come up with someone from a little off the radar. Not saying Gallant, but perhaps him or someone like him. But I don’t think he is going to go with one of the Habs Retreads, I think he wants new tires on this baby he just inherited.

    • TomNickle says:

      549-421-100 in the regular season.

      43-40 in the post-season.

      Seems like he wins quite a lot to me.

      • Cardiac says:

        And over 400 of those regular season wins came by coaching teams with far more talent than the current Habs roster.

        “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
        - Jerry Maguire

        • TomNickle says:

          And 350 of the losses came with far lesser quality goaltending than the Habs currently have.

          • Cardiac says:

            Goaltending is not the problem with this team. Unless you expect us to win 80% of our games 1-0, 2-1 or 3-2 your argument is bollocks.

            “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
            - Jerry Maguire

          • TomNickle says:

            Goaltending not being the problem with this team, and it having been a major problem with a large majority of previously coached Crawford teams is a reason to speculate that he could enjoy a great amount of success here.

          • boing007 says:

            Cardiac,
            Unless you expect us to win 80% of our games 1-0, 2-1 or 3-2 your argument is bollocks.

            Sounds about right to me. That’s what we’re seeing in the playoffs this year.

            Richard R
            Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  15. TomNickle says:

    In draft news, Craig Button realized how much of a meathead he was by leaving Olli Maatta out of his top 60 prospects and now has him ranked #30. Which by most counts is still around 15 to 20 spots too low.

    Other notable and completely stupid rankings include Ryan Murray(12), Mikhail Grigorenko(20), Derrick Pouliot(18), Morgan Reilly(3), Sebastian Collberg(28), Martin Frk(55)

    • LA Loyalist says:

      Where are you guys on taking Ryan Murray?

      The closer we get to the actual day the more nervous I get about taking a Russian. And seeing McDonaugh stud it up for the Rangers makes me not want to make THAT mistake again — though it would be hard to equal in stupidity.

      I should disclaim that I am a believer in taking the best guy available, regardless of position, notwithstanding that we seriously need a big male center.

      • TomNickle says:

        The Habs play it safe in the early rounds typically but Bergevin coming from an organization that took Kane and Toews with high picks, I can’t see him going with a defenseman.

        In my opinion it’s gotta be one of Galchenyuk or Grigorenko.

  16. HabinBurlington says:

    And from the department of “wow I never thought I would agree with Cam Neely”

    http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/bruins/extras/bruins_blog/2012/05/cam_neely_encou.html

    I actually agree with Cam on this one, that equipment needs to be changed in order to help prevent future concussions.

    • pottymonster says:

      i made that exact point a few weeks ago, better a busted shoulder than scrambled brains.

      some people still believe though that the players are too big for smaller equipment and the shots are too hard, that the players need this big equipment.

      news flash: you dont need shoulder pads and elbow pads made of steel to protect yourself. you also arent blocking shots with your shoulder or your elbow. those are the two points of the body that most often make contact with someones heads, and they should be padded so as not to injure the other person.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        It’s almost funny, many of us have been saying this for years, heck I still remember when Cherry whacked Maclean in the head with the elbow pad to make the point and that was many years ago. Yet no one does anything about it. Perhaps if more of the GM’s/Owners of the leagues started to speak up, something may finally happen. The fact that a caveman like Neely has now clued in to it, should help.

  17. HabinBurlington says:

    In less important hockey news, what has happened to Team Finland at world championships?

  18. Mattyleg says:

    Great article, Dave.
    Thanks for that!

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  19. TomNickle says:

    Things go from bad to worse for Cory Clouston.

    Fired today by the Brandon Wheat Kings.

  20. TomNickle says:

    The other interesting tidbit about Crawford that the won/loss record won’t tell you is that the two men who made the best coaching changes this year, Dean Lombardi and Doug Armstrong moving from Murray to Sutter and Payne to Hitchcock respectively. Both trusted their teams in the development stages to one Marc Crawford.

    Crawford isn’t with those teams today obviously. Armstrong was sacked in Dallas and Lombardi moved on from Crawford in Los Angeles but is it not worth noting that Anze Kopitar, Dustin Brown, Jack Johnson, Mike Cammalleri, Lubomir Visnovsky and even Sean Avery were at their best playing for him?

    Guess not, because he didn’t make the playoffs with eleven goalies in two years.

    • Max_a_million says:

      Annals of Marc Crawford: The Coach who sometimes wins, but not often:

      In 1998 he coached the most talented team in the world, Canada’s Olympic Hockey team to an astounding 4th place finish. I think they still got Roots t-shirts to keep and bring home for their efforts.

      Probably his goalie’s fault.

      • TomNickle says:

        Actually they ran into the best goalie in the World at the time in the semi-final round and Crawford screwed up in the shootout by not selecting Gretzky.

        Also, in terms of pure talent, the Russians were arguably our equal.

      • Hobie Hansen says:

        YA too bad they ran into Hasek or they would have won Gold. Nothing to do with Crawford.

        His shootout lineup was debatable but nothing was getting past Hasek.

        So not really a valid point Max, sorry.

      • HFX-HabFan says:

        Mostly the other team’s goalie’s (Dominik Hasek) fault

      • Max_a_million says:

        There is always a reason for poor Marc’s failures.

        He is just so snakebitten luck wise.

  21. frontenac1 says:

    “I see by your outfit that you are a cowboy”….Come on guys ,sing along! (Ralph Lockwood)

  22. frontenac1 says:

    Come on Marc,name a coach already!The Draft is next month!Could it be that he is taking to candidates that nobody here is talking about?Hmmmm.

    • commandant says:

      I hate the crop we’ve been talking about here to be honest. With Vigneault and Quenneville staying put there is no one I really like.

      The experienced coaches are retreads we’ve fired before and I’m not crazy about having both a rookie at coach and at GM.

      Go Habs Go!
      Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
      http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

      • shiram says:

        Yup, basically, this…

      • habs-fan-84 says:

        Could not agree more.

      • TomNickle says:

        That’s why I like Savard as a fallback to Crawford Ben. He’s got experience developing young talent(even if they didn’t like him).

        • commandant says:

          Savard is an interesting option.

          As is Gallant. Heck if I knew Gallant could speak French, he’d be the guy I go for. Tough to blame his stint in Columbus on coaching, they havent won for any coach.

          Go Habs Go!
          Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
          http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

          • HabinBurlington says:

            I like the idea of Gallant also, and I think the learning curve from being in Columbus should help him. It would have been nice to see him have success as NHL head coach, but he hasn’t had that opportunity yet. He did however show he can coach by the job he has done in St. Johns. Yea the team is stacked, but he is keeping them motivated and they are winning.

            Not sure about the language issue, thought I read from a poster here that he speaks some, not well. I would think he could pick up some rather quickly.

    • Max_a_million says:

      Who is left?

      LA – they were hot on LA for GM prospects, so maybe an LA person

      I don’ think a coach is that important for this time period though, it’s all about working with Timmins and his crew to evaluate talent on the roster, in draft and free agency.

      • TomNickle says:

        The next coach isn’t important with Leblanc, Gallagher, Tinordi and Beaulieu coming along and Subban, Emelin, Eller, Desharnais and Pacioretty on the roster?

  23. Max_a_million says:

    Bill Parcells said it best “You are what your record says you are!”. Every team has weaknesses and strengths, every team has injuries, every team has bad and good luck. Winners find ways to win, and losers do not.

    I guess if we throw out statistics like wins, losses, goals, assists, playoff victories, playoff losses, Stanley cups. If at the end of the regular season every player on every team just got a ribbon, a trophy, and a cookie. Well I guess in that circumstance Marc Crawford would be a fine coach for the best hockey team in the world, and I wouldn’t be bothered to see him coaching my team. Heck Scotty Gomez is pretty funny since we aren’t keeping score anyhow might as well keep him around.

    Except no one is going to stop counting, in which case Marc Crawford is a big steaming bowl of average. He is what his record says he is, and he has a long record to prove it. I am not the type of Canadiens fan who thinks we should have the 18th best coach in the league, nor the 18th best team in the league. No more average, give me great. Give me a coach who hates to lose, and surround him with the best team you can find. No sloppy seconds for Habs please today!

    • TomNickle says:

      The reasons that the numbers are what they are is most important. You’re taking Parcells’ quote far too literally.

      This isn’t a video game, the record is the cumulative result, how you got there is what matters.

      I believe it’s more than fair to say that if Crawford had anything resembling good goaltending in Vancouver, Dallas and Los Angeles that he would have an even more impressive record than he already does.

      But don’t let an actual analysis of how the record was accumulated get in the way of your abacus.

      • Max_a_million says:

        No I am not. That is exactly the point Parcells made. Everything else is bullsquat. Your record is your record. That’s what you are, and how you are remembered.

  24. doug19 says:

    So if Moen has 43 goals in 5 years, how many does the 7 million dollar man have? He is paid to score right?

  25. naweed235 says:

    I don’t know if it has been mentioned already but Renaud Lavoie twitted earlier that Larry Robinson completely denied all the rumours of him wanting to be part of the new Habs organization and said he has absolutely no interest…

  26. TomNickle says:

    Public service announcement.

    If you’re going to make a point or twist a fact to suit your argument, consider for a moment what the same principles would do to the opposite end of the argument.

    For instance, to say that a coach won a Stanley Cup only because of the talent he had at his disposal is a comment that not only applies for that coach, but all coaches. So if you want to say that Marc Crawford won a Stanley Cup only because of Sakic, Forsberg and Roy then you must also believe that Mike Babcock only won one because of Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom. Demers won one only because of Roy, Damphousse and Desjardins. Byslma only because of Malkin, Crosby and Staal. Get it?

    If one coach only won a Stanley Cup because of the players he had, then they all have.

    Crawford isn’t an excellent coach because Bob Hartley won a Stanley Cup with the same team? Oh I see, then Jacques Lemaire and Larry Robinson are average coaches too.

    Scott Bowman is a great example of this. He is rightfully admired almost unanimously by fans. He won his championships with the Habs, Penguins and Red Wings. And as I pointed out earlier. Those teams he had are probably three of the top five in NHL history. Is part of that because of his coaching? Of course, but if you want to chalk up other coaches championships to the talent they had, be prepared to do it with every coach.

    Fair is fair.

    • Max_a_million says:

      Guess what Scotty Bowman did with mediocre teams in St. Louis and Buffalo? He made the playoffs! He even had a .500 record in the playoffs with mediocre talent. Guess what Scotty Bowman didn’t do? Miss the playoffs, only twice in 30 years he missed the playoffs.

      Guess what Marc Crawford does not do? Make the playoffs!

      • TomNickle says:

        Career record in Dallas was 79-60-25 in two seasons and didn’t make the playoffs either year.

        In Los Angeles, he had 11 different goalies start for him in two years.

        Like I said below. People who look only at the record to determine why a team had a good or bad season are usually the guys who’ve never had skates on their feet.

        • Hobie Hansen says:

          I would have to agree with you on that one Tom. I’ve felt like writing a post like your original one above, regarding a wide range of topics.

          The arguments that go on here and the cases people make for them make zero sense sometimes.

  27. Max_a_million says:

    Here is a baseline for what a Montreal Canadiens coach should look like. Stop trying to convince me that the dirty dregs of the league are Montreal quality. At the very least we need to make the playoffs to have a chance to win the cup. These coaches manage to make the playoffs quite often:

    -Joel Quenneville made the playoffs 13 out of 14 seasons.
    -Ken Hitchcock made the playoffs 10 of 13 seasons.
    -John Torterella has made the playoffs 7 of 11 seasons.
    -Mike Babcock has made the playoffs 8 of 8 times.
    -Claude Julien made playoffs 6 of 7 times.
    -Peter Laviolette made playoffs 6 of 9 times.
    -Dan Blysma has made playoffs 4 of 4 times.

    If we accept and expect less than these teams have in the way of coaching, then we have already lost. Really the Montreal Canadiens are dirty little step sisters who should accept less?

    These guys are NOT Montreal Canadiens quality:

    Carbo 1 of 2
    Crawford 8 of 15
    Therrien 3 of 5
    Hartley 5 of 8

    Hey Mr. Bergevin, go find the best hockey team in the history of the world a really good coach please. It’s the best hockey team in the world for goodness sake, not sorry sisters of the poor.

    • shiram says:

      Scott Gomez 10 out of 12.
      edit : Habs also just fired a guy that was 12 out of 16.

      • Max_a_million says:

        Do you want him to be coach?

        At $690,909.00 per point (what he scores).

        That would cost us $69 million if we pay him per point to coach us to a 100 pt season. It’s a least the most creative way I have seen around his salary thus far.

        • shiram says:

          heheh no, I don’t! but what do you say about Jacques Martin and his 12 out of 16?

          • Max_a_million says:

            I don’t think anyone here thinks that was good enough. I want someone better than that!

          • shiram says:

            Martin made the playoffs 75% of time, Laviollete made them 67% of the time, yet he is on your good list. Basically appearing often in the playoffs is not an indicator of quality/talent.

          • Max_a_million says:

            Actually my point was that I think we should have at least as good of a coach as the people on that list, and certainly not worst. We just got done the Jacque Martin era, so it makes no sense to bring him back. His track record is better than Crawford’s though.

            I don’t want to be talked into settling for a coach nobody wants with a long track record of failure.

          • Cardiac says:

            Look at post lockout. When he was with Ottawa, they only missed the playoffs once.

            After the lockout and arriving in Florida, they missed the playoffs all three years he was in charge.

            “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
            - Jerry Maguire

          • shiram says:

            I agree Habs need a great coach, but the judging criteria should be alot wider than just “he appears in the playoffs often”.

      • LA Loyalist says:

        Man, I don’t even look at this site for a month, trying to detox, and the first time I peek I have to read an apologist for Gomez and Martin in the same freaking post.

        Now I have a headache. Out.

        • shiram says:

          Hehe I’m not defending either, just providing a counter point to the argument that making the playoffs often is a good criteria to evaluate someone.
          Besides LA, you should know I have no love for either…

          • Max_a_million says:

            Scott Gomez was not the coach, it’s not his responsibility. That’s a strange argument. Charlie Huddy made the playoffs a lot in Edmonton and LA. Should he coach? Does that make him great? What are you getting at?

            I don’t get it, weird argument to pull out a player when we are comparing coaches.

          • shiram says:

            I put Gomez as a joke, when he started sucking bad, it was one of his “qualities” that was often invoked in trying to defend him. I don’t have the stats or knowledge to provide other examples, but the point remains that appearing in the playoffs as head coach is not an indicator of quality, as there are some many other factors to consider.

          • Max_a_million says:

            Seriously??????

            Making the playoffs as a head coach doesn’t matter?

          • shiram says:

            Yes seriously, you have to consider other factors to ascertain the qualities of a Head Coach. Taking a myopic view of stats will not give you the big picture.

      • TomNickle says:

        Exactly.

        Using statistics instead of looking at the circumstances surrounding each guy is the easy way.

        If stats are the toast de jour three of the seasons that Crawford missed the playoffs he had point totals of 92, 91 and 95.

        In another he only coached 37 games and took over a team that was 15-24-6.

        If he were coaching in the Eastern Conference and you only count full seasons(fair). His playoff berth record would be 11 playoff berths in 14 seasons.

        • shiram says:

          Thanx for getting it Tom!

        • Max_a_million says:

          If he were coaching in the Eastern Conference??? He would have had a completely different schedule. You keep trying to pull out exceptions for him.

          You know who has had bad goalies – Mike Torterella, Mike Babcock … most coaches do. Crawford has proven he is at best an average coach with a long track record, and many situations to prove it.

          • TomNickle says:

            I’m not pulling out exceptions for him Max. You number crunchers don’t ever, and I mean ever consider the circumstances surrounding players, coaches or general managers and it’s sickening.

            X coach made the playoffs y out of z seasons and therefore is not qualified.

            Are you frigging kidding me? You put zero thought into your analysis. None, you look at numbers and upchuck on your keyboard.

            You know what guy is perfect to settle this argument? Alain Vigneault. What did he do with below average Habs’ teams? What did he do with Canucks teams?

            Coaches far too often here, like goalies are judged based on wins and losses because people are too lazy to think about what lead to the wins and losses instead of just declaring sub-par performance.

            In the seasons that Crawford missed the playoffs with the Canucks he didn’t have a goalie with a save percentage above .906 yet the two editions of the Canucks that were left out of the final 16 had a record of 72-61-15

            In Dallas he had a record of 79-60-25 and his goaltenders’ save percentage was no higher than .913

            In Los Angeles he went 59-84-21 and guess what? He had to start 11 different goalies in those two seasons. 11.

            Not that any of the insight as to why a team accumulates a record it has is of any value to you. But in my opinion it should be. Pointing to a record and saying a guy’s done a bad job is lazy.

          • Max_a_million says:

            He has a long track record of being no better than average. It’s there. I am glad you are so excited about an average candidate that no one else wants. That won’t get the Canadiens very far.

          • TomNickle says:

            Stanley Cup winners with records miles over .500 are average?

            I think you would be well served to evaluate your standards and actually look beyond numbers.

    • chemic says:

      Torts and Laviolette are for sure good coaches but based on your stats here, they are actually no better than Hartley!

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Barry Trotz 7 out of 13, if he spoke french I would take him.

  28. The Dude says:

    ****************NEWS FLASH******************
    Carey Price has just signed a 12 year $100 million dollar contract

    YEE-HAW !

    • shiram says:

      You are bad tripping El Duderino

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Thanks for the update, I am sure I overlooked it, but could you provide the link again that shows this. Thanks in advance Dude!

      Edit: It is my understanding that Carey is looking for some hired help at the Dude Ranch this summer, I am thinking your name alone could get you hired. Just something to consider. :)

    • sanman_11 says:

      link please

      I’m a HABS fan not a Leaf blower.

    • Bripro says:

      OK Dude? Just because I stated yesterday that you would be providing the intoxicants for the upcoming HIO summit at either HabinBurlington’s or Habfab’s, I think you’ve started to indulge a little early, ….. no?

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I was busy golfing yesterday, what date have we determined the party is at my place? No issues with that, just want to put in a call to my “friends” down at the station and make sure they have a few extra staff at the ready is all.

        • Bripro says:

          Here’s my post from yesterday (and Ian Cobb has yet to confirm):

          I have it on good authority that HabinBurlington and HabFab have the ideal fishing resorts where we could set up on a fine, sunny day. (honourable mention goes to Canadien Errant and Habitant in Surrey, but quite frankly guys, you live too far off the beaten track…but you’re both welcome to come Norm and Chris…Gerry OK’d it!)
          Of course, we’ll have Hobie, 24 and Boone as bouncers in case Timo or TomNickle get out of hand.
          Shiram has promised to add to the pot luck with some potato and cheese concoction. Don’t ask…and Habfan10912 will supply the pork chops!
          I’ve also received word that Prime Time, Hard Habits, The Dude and Zep will be supplying the intoxicants….of various natures.
          Finally, for your entertainment, we will open with some educational readings from the book of Mattyleg, followed by a musical interlude by Bon Jovi and my son (the B’s fan) drummer boy, and once everyone is good and sh*! faced, we will close with readings from JohnBellyFull.
          I would offer to host it here if it rains, but you guys haven’t met my wife!
          Beautiful? Absolutely! Dangerous? You guessed it….
          (For all interested HIO members, your requests will be taken shortly…please take a number and have a nice day!)

          EDIT: Shiram doesn’t remember offering to provide the cheese concoction, Zep was too wasted to know what I was talking about, and Norm thinks I’m out to undercut his keynote event (a Montreal Canadiens softball event). ;)

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Well done Bri! But if were at my place its more like golf than fishing. Everything else remains the same. :)

  29. Kfourn says:

    On a completely unrelated note, I played a game against Former AHL (played a handful of games in the NHL) player Guillaume Lefebre last night. He was considered a scraper, but man can that guy play. Anyone who says that anyone playing in the NHL is trash has absolutely no clue.

    As for the Price concerns I just have to shake my head. I remember growing up as a kid and watching Larry Robinson trod down my street (Maple Ridge) in St. Lazare on his horse and racing through the trails in the back, or jumping fences…I didn’t see any huge uproar about that.

    On the coaching selection I would like to see some new blood. Why rehash old coaches?

    Edit: by that I mean old Habs coaches.

    • LA Loyalist says:

      Robinson was (and may still be) an accomplished Polo player. The issue with Price (aside from his shootout % and lack of competitive drive) is not that he rides horses (which are very skittish and unpredictable animals – I’ve owned them) ) but that HE’S THE FREAKING GOALIE – THE MOST IMPORTANT AND HARD TO REPLACE PLAYER ON THE TEAM (unless you’re St. Louis – and look what happened to them with Halak hurt). If Price was an out player the story would only be Sunday paper filler.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I could understand a horse being rather skittish and unpredictable with you riding them as well. I have no issues with Carey riding the ponies, however.

        Also, when you had your sit down chat with Carey, how exactly did he tell you about his lack of competitive drive. Is it this same lack of drive that makes him compete as hard as he does at roping every summer? When you analyzed his %percentage in shootouts, did you inquire at all about the fact that the Montreal shooters actually were missing broad sides of barns with their shots?

        • LA Loyalist says:

          Shootouts. He should love shootouts. He should get a woodie doing shootouts. The fact that he loads his diaper during shootouts is extremely disconcerting and worrying. I’m not saying he doesn’t have talent. I’m saying he has software issues yet to be identified or resolved.

          And shootouts have nothing to do with our shooters.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            hmmm okay then. I always thought in a shootout both teams shoot. I also seem to recall that teams that score goals win more of them and even results in their goalies facing less shots. In fact I even seem to recall that a goalie may have more confidence when he knows he will only have to stop 2 out of 3 shots to win a shootout instead of often times having to stop all 3 opposing shooter and then surive the extra shooters.

            Its no problem, you are allowed to not like Price, just say it instead of coming up with BS about software issues. If it was that simple then go by him a diskette of ESET antivirus.

    • Bripro says:

      In the mid-70s, I played some pick-up hockey with Glen Currie who went on to play for the Caps and Kings. Although he was selected in the 2nd round, his career was very short.
      I also played some pick up with Robert Simpson, another local alumnus.
      He was selected in the day by the Atlanta Flames.
      Neither of these guys were top NHL players, but at our level, they were unstoppable. Playing with Glen at the Juniors trials was my eye-opener in seeing that there was no way I would even come close to making it in the big leagues. They were so much better than an average player such as myself.
      It just goes to show that there may be just a few degrees of separation between good and great at that level, but it might as well be miles apart. Only the exceptionally talented have a chance. And only the lucky ones move on!

  30. Ali says:

    Don’t think anyone should get too worried about Crawford as coach, he would be fine. Two of the last 3 teams he got fired from had Dan Cloutier as his starting netminder. Thats his GM’s fault, not his. And Dallas only got Kari Lehtonen towards the end of his last season there, before that they had crappy version of Mike Smith and the old and crappy Marty Turco.

    edit: I’ll correct myself, he actually had Lehtonen for the full year his last season, and finished with 93 points.

    • TomNickle says:

      The trial coming up is a concern regardless of whether or not Crawford’s guilty of anything. That much I’ll acknowledge.

      But, considering his entire body of work, what he brings and to be completely frank his public enthusiasm regarding the possibility of getting the job, I’m all for him getting it.

      I think he’s the right fit if the mandate is competing now while building for the future.

      • commandant says:

        I like Crawford’s credentials over all, but being in Montreal and all that goes with that… plus adding the trial. That scares me.

        If the legal issues were in the past, I’d be all for him coming in.

        Lets face another fact though, Crawford may speak french but he’s not a “pure laine Quebecois” which will also be a strike against him for some media types. Not all, but we all know the fanatics who are out there. These people who care more about politics than hockey will be looking for anything to throw at him (even if they won’t admit that his heritage is the reason) and the trial will give them every excuse to pile on the guy without appearing like the bigots that they are.

        I don’t think this is necessarily fair to Crawford, but it is what it is.

        Go Habs Go!
        Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
        http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

        • LA Loyalist says:

          “pure laine”?

          What the ?

          Are we Nazis wondering if somebody is 10% Jewish? If anyone in the Quebec media actually is that fanatical, then I am so ashamed and embarrassed I can’t even describe it.

          What if we had some phenom Swiss or French coach who spoke better French than the locals? Would they rip him, too? I said it before and I’ll say it again: the argument to demand a Quebecois coach died the day Enzo Ferrari hired Gilles Villeneuve. Don’t give it any credibility.

          • commandant says:

            Its not right, and its not fair, but sometimes people will jump on their pulpits just cause.

            I mean is it fair that Shane Doan is still vilified in the province years after it was proven that the anti-French slur came from Ladislav Nagy and not Doan?

            Is it fair what happened to Cunneyworth?

            The comments about people not being true Quebecois were fired at both Benoit Pouliot and Jacques Martin at times, and at least those guys were Franco-Ontarian.

            Bob Gainey, a guy who bled for the team, and did everything he could was sometimes criticized for his pedestrian french, even though it was more than most.

            For a guy like Crawford who is an anglo that learned French there will be some in the media… not a majority mind you… but some who will fire slings and arrows and make things into a political statement. When you give them the ammunition of the trial, and they can hide behind that without exposing the true bigotry, you’ve got a perfect storm. Unfortunate and Distasteful, but in many ways true.

            Go Habs Go!
            Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
            http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

      • LA Loyalist says:

        The trial will be a circus and a terrible distraction no matter where he is coaching. Not fair but that is reality. Can he handle it?

        That’s the question. I’m not against Crawford coaching. I think he’s an interesting option. I would personally bring back Carbo, but that’s just me.

    • Max_a_million says:

      The Colorado teams he had were stacked with incredibly talent, and he had one good run with them.

      That Vancouver team he had was really good, and he did nothing with them. They missed the playoffs 3 of 7 years, and when they made the playoffs they had 12 wins and 19 losses.

      The LA years were beyond dreadful, 68 and 71 pts … come on a reasonable coach has to be able to get more points than that. Maybe if it just happened once, but twice in a row.

      Dallas missed the playoffs.

      So in 15 seasons, he has made the playoffs 8 times. That doesn’t sound like Montreal Canadiens quality to me.

      When he makes the playoffs his record is 43 wins and 40 losses. a shade over .500 coach, with most of his wins coming in the one season. Otherwise he is often over-matched even with a superior team. That doesn’t sound like Montreal quality to me either.

      I have no idea why people find this to be good. Missing the playoffs half of the time is not a fluke of a bad goalie. Heck Jacque Martin made the playoffs 75% of the time. Aren’t we supposed to be getting better?

      • TomNickle says:

        Dan Cloutier.

        Scotty Bowman won a fistful of Stanley Cups with three of the greatest assemblies of talent in NHL history. Guess that makes him an average coach.

        • Max_a_million says:

          Hmmm … my comment reads that Scotty Bowman in an average coach???

          Scotty Bowman made the playoffs 28 out of 30 times.
          He coached very meager St. Louis and Buffalo teams, and he made the playoffs.
          He won the Stanley Cup with 3 different teams.
          He never had a season below 70 pts.
          His playoff winning percentage is .632. Guess what even when he coached far less talented teams in St. Louis and Buffalo his playoff winning percentage was .500.
          When he was with Montreal, Detroit, and Pittsburgh he was winning 7 out of 10 games.

          Give me a break. Marc Crawford is certainly no Scotty Bowman!
          I never said Scotty was average, and no matter what team you gave Scotty he won regardless of the goalie. I am sure he had tons of crappy goalies in his career as well.

          • Cardiac says:

            It seems Tom likes to take facts and twist them so out of context in order to support his arguments.

            Apparently Anze Kopitar has to attribute all his success to wonderful coaching/development skills Marc Crawford demonstrated during his memorable tenure in LA. I’m sure Kopitar would have never became the breakout star he is today if it was for Crawford holding his hand during those first two difficult seasons in LA.

            Completely dismissing the fact that they played with hall of famers like Forsberg and Sakic ,he also chooses to believe Crawford made Valeri Kamensky, Claude Lemieux and Scott Young all 60-70 point players. So if he comes to Montreal, does that mean will he make Lars Eller and Travis Mown 30 goal scorers?

            “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
            - Jerry Maguire

      • Cardiac says:

        This post is almost verbatim of mine below… interesting…

        “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
        - Jerry Maguire

        • Max_a_million says:

          Hey Cardiac,

          I went through and read your post. We are on the same wave length with this, neat. I couldn’t agree with you more. The numbers don’t lie, they are what you say you are. He had NHL players like everyone, and more often that not he lost with them. Simple.

      • LA Loyalist says:

        Max 2 Million, I would like to just add that coaching a great team full of prima donnas can be just as hard or harder than coaching a bunch of grinders who don’t know where the net is. That was Scotty’s genius, he could adjust to the horses he had, as could Pat Burns to a great degree. And that was Martin’s great failing, he had some imaginary team in his head that had nothing to do with the guys on the ice.

  31. jols101 says:

    Hope Bergevin is getting comfortable in his new surrondings. Once he has his management team set I hope one of the first things he does is talk to Moen and his agent. In his first presser he mention Price and PK will be a priority and rightfully so, they are the key to this Franchise’s long term success but as a long time fan I really hope he does’nt push Moen too far back on his list of priorites…
    Moen is that heart and soul 3rd or 4th liner that makes a team successful in the playoffs. He will bang in 10-15 goals, stick up for his linemates, kill penalties with the best of them and he will bleed red, white and blue if that is whats asked of him.
    Moen has expressed interest in staying in MTL but if Bergevin waites too long and July 1st comes 20 teams, including Burke and the Laufs will be making offers. Take some advise Bergevin make Moen your first signing and give him 3 years at 2 million per year and get this done ASAP….

    • shiram says:

      Moen can step it up when he is asked too, and he works out on a farm in the off season! The team still needs toughness, and Moen brings soem while playing a good game, I’d hate to see him put on another jersey.

    • TomNickle says:

      I like Moen but he’s only had one season with a goal total above ten. Travis Moen is not worth $2-$3 million dollars on a rebuilding team that needs to watch its dollars and cents.

    • habs-fan-84 says:

      +1
      Still looking forward to a line of White, Staubitz and Moen next year. As you said, these type of guys are essential to any successful playoff run.

    • Hobie Hansen says:

      I really hope they resign Moen. He is a solid two-way player who has a knack for scoring important goals. When there is a big game on the line he shows up.

      He scored the goal that broke the Penguins back in game 7 a couple seasons ago. He also played a big role on the Ducks cup winning team way back when.

      And he doesn’t back down from anybody!

      I think he is Bergevin’s type of player so that will help get him resigned.

    • Max_a_million says:

      Moen has played 8 full seasons, and has scored 43 goals. His average goals per season is a shade over 5, and he has only scored more than 10 (11) once in 06′-07′. If you expect him to score 10-15 goals, you won’t be very happy with him.

      He is a good player to have if the price is right.

      • jols101 says:

        Ok maybe 10-15 goals was overly ambitious but Moen’s goal scoring production is the least important thing that he brings to the table. The guys on the top 2 lines are paid to score, Moen brings all the things that people who have never played the game and only look at STATS, will never understand. He is an important role player that does a lot of things well and if he is not signed by July 1st the proof will be in all the other teams vying for his services. My point was simple- Get him signed before July 1st….Cheers

  32. Hobie Hansen says:

    Price is the man! I’m sure he does his share of bar hopping and puking off balconies over the summer but it’s great to see him involved in the rodeo and that lifestyle.

    It builds character. After spending some time in Calgary myself, going to a couple Stampedes and working with a few Cowboys and Natives in the casino industry out there, they are all stand up people.

    I’d way rather a cowboy on the team than a golfer!

  33. DorvalTony says:

    You can bet dollars to beignes that Bergevin et cie. will address this in their contract offer. Maybe by then Robinson will be signed and he can recount his polo accident to Marc as an eye opener.

    Still, to have equine Darwinism in play…Malcolm Subban anyone?

    tony-mclean.blogspot.com

    • TomNickle says:

      You can’t stop a player from doing what they want to do in their time. You really think that they can put a clause in his contract that stipulates that he may not participate in these activities.

      First of all, if he were to suffer an injury at these rodeo events the team’s insurance company would not pay his salary for them. Second, if the team had a clause in the contract stating they wouldn’t pay him in the event of off-season rodeo injury I’m pretty sure that Price could find a team more than willing to.

      Why alienate your best player?

      • habsnyc says:

        In baseball, teams can stipulate that a player not engage in certain dangerous activities such as parachuting or hand gliding or mountain climbing. Teams cannot restrict a player from non dangerous activities. However, they can stipulate that the contract is violated if a player is injured while playing a different sport. For example, Aaron Boone violated his contract with the Yankees by injuring his knee during a pickup basketball game. He was released from his contract.

        In the NFL, any injury outside of NFL football or football practice is considered a non football injury and is grounds for not paying the player until the injury heals. If the player injures themself working out at home, that is considered a non football injury. This is the standard contract language: “Player will not participate in any football game not sponsored by the League unless the game is first approved by the League. Nor, while this contract is in effect, will Player play football or engage in activities related to football other than for Club or engage in any activity other than football which may involve a significant risk of personal injury without first obtaining Club’s prior written consent.

        Many contracts forbid motorcycle riding. Kellen Winslow and Jay Williams come to mind as players who were injured on their motorcycles and forfeited salary and bonus as a result.

        Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

        • TomNickle says:

          The majority of the cases you mentioned were a result of injuries happening at a time when there was nothing in the contract to stipulate restrictions on recreational activity.

          If a person wants to do something, they’re going to do it. The Habs can’t stop Price from taking part in rodeo activities.

          • habsnyc says:

            standard NHL player contract – this is an old one I have – if they have since changed, I apologize:

            5(b) If the Player, in the judgment of the Club’s physician, is disabled or is not in good physical condition at the commencement
            of the season or at any subsequent time during the season (unless such condition is the direct result of any injury sustained
            during the course of his employment as a hockey player with the Club. including travel with his team or on business requested by the Club) so as to render him unfit to play skilled hockey, then it is mutually agreed that the Club shall have the right to suspend the Player for such period of disability or unfitness, and no compensation shall be payable for that period under this contract. If upon joint consultation between the Player. the Club’s physician and the Club General Manager, they are unable to agree upon the Player’s disability or physical condition, the Player agrees to submit himself for examination by an independent medical specialist and the Parties hereto agree to be bound by his decision.

            7. The Player and the Club recognize and agree that the Player’s participation in other sports may impair or destroy his ability
            and skill as a hockey player. Accordingly the Player agrees that he will not during the period of this Contract or during any period
            when he is obligated under this Contract to enter into a further contract with the Club engage or participate in football, baseball, softball, hockey. lacrosse, boxing. wrestling or other athletic sport without the written consent of the Club. which consent will not be
            unreasonably withheld.

            Every league has a “other activities clause” which restricts players from certain behaviours.

            Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

          • boing007 says:

            Do any of us know if Price has ever fallen off a horse while roping calves and such? Maybe he isn’t as healthy as we would like to believe? Or as healthy as he would like us to believe? Maybe the concussion-like symptoms that occurred after his impact with Desharnais were due to non-hockey related stresses and strains on his body. Maybe not.

            Richard R
            Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

        • Willy says:

          I seem to remember Ben Roethlisberger getting a pretty serious injury from crashing his motorcycle with no helmet on. What did the Steelers do? Let him ride his motorcycle again after that because they don’t want a pissed off QB. All these issues are double standards, if a star player gets hurt then it’s bad but they will still pay him but if it’s a backup WR then he’s cut and not payed.

          Let Price go play cowboy in the offseason and have him come back focused and happy for training camp.

          • habsnyc says:

            Roethlisberger recovered from his injuries prior to the start of the NFL season. They paid him because he attended training camp.

            Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

  34. commandant says:

    One candidate who I am really concerned about is Crawford.

    He’s got the Bertuzzi/Moore trial coming up this fall. This will be an absolute media circus and the last thing this team needs is another media circus.

    Some will be unavoidable in Montreal, nature of the market, but this one can be easily avoided and I’d steer clear of him.

    Maybe next time we need a coach when he has the legal issues behind him he can be a candidate, but now is not the right time IMO.

    Go Habs Go!
    Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
    http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

    • Cardiac says:

      IMO, Crawford is overrated big time. See my reply to Tom’s post below.

      “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
      - Jerry Maguire

      • TomNickle says:

        Being overrated for coaching good teams makes every coach to have enjoyed success in the NHL overrated.

        • Cardiac says:

          Not so… the likes of Barry Trotz and Lindy Ruff have coached sub-par teams for many, many seasons and I consider them to great coaches because of their ability to win without teams stacked to the roof.

          “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
          - Jerry Maguire

          • Strummer says:

            But then Trotz for all his genius can’t advance this year with a very talented team.
            Ruff also got a serious upgrade in talent last season and couldn’t make the post-season.

            Maybe its easier to coach a sub- par team because expectations are limited and bring less pressure.

            ———————————————————————————–
            “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

          • TomNickle says:

            What bad teams has Lindy Ruff had?

            He’s almost always had excellent goaltending and has had an excellent collection of talent for a decade.

  35. TomNickle says:

    McKenzie’s list of candidates is very alarming.

    Michel Therrien couldn’t acquire the respect of his players in Pittsburgh and they didn’t exactly keep that a secret following his dismissal.

    Bob Hartley was hard pressed to lose a game in the NHL without it turning into a Battle Royale by game’s end.

    Guy Carbonneau has been adamant to this day that he doesn’t know why one of his best friends fired him. Sorry Carbo, not buyin. Something happened, and based on the tight lipped nature of the fallout, it was bad enough that nobody wants the truth to come out.

    Marc Crawford in my opinion has been the most logical choice from day one. Veteran coach, with a ring, gets the most out of his star players and doesn’t sit back and wait to be attacked.

    On the Bertuzzi incident, people who believe that an experienced Head Coach would send Todd Bertuzzi(90 point player at the time) to maim a rival’s role player are nuts. That team had Brad May, Jarko Ruutu, Wade Brookbank, Bryan Allen and Matt Cooke. Coaches don’t send their stars to do fourth liners’ dirty work.

    Having said that, I would hope that the list of candidates is a bit longer. Perhaps including Sylvain Lefebvre, Gerrard Gallant. And how about this name? Jacques Beaulieu. Nathan’s father. He essentially built the current Saint John SeaDogs roster and developed a significant portion it.

    He’s worked extensively with the Hunters in London as well.

    • Cardiac says:

      The problem with Crawford is most of his success was due to coaching stacked teams. Mr. Magoo could have coached the Avalanche to the Cup with the roster they had. Also, he benefited largely from the West Coat Express line in Vancouver.

      However, during his tenure with the Canucks, they missed the playoffs 3 out of the 7 seasons with him and never made it past the second round.

      When he coached LA, they missed the playoffs and finished second to last and last in their division. He didn’t fare any better in Dallas where the Stars finished dead last in both seasons with Crawford behind the bench.

      Doesn’t sound like a guy who knows how to get the most out of his players… does it?

      “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
      - Jerry Maguire

      • Kooch7800 says:

        Sometimes coaching a stacked team is actually the hardest…see the capitals, vancouver Nucks, Ottawa senators a on their cup run…

        “Like Canadian Hip hop..check us out http://www.groovecontrolmusic.com

        • Cardiac says:

          Irrelevant… Crawford’s regular season coaching record by team:

          Que/Col: 165-88-41
          Van: 246-189-59-32
          LA: 59-84–21
          Dal: 79-60–25

          If he comes to Montreal, he will be coaching a lineup that is closer to the ones he had to work with in LA and Dallas rather than Vancouver or Colorado.

          “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
          - Jerry Maguire

          • TomNickle says:

            Sorry how’s that?

            In Los Angeles he had a young Kopitar, Brown and Doughty to go with experienced Frolov and Cammalleri.

            I noticed you haven’t pointed out that Colorado was the only team he coached that had a capable goaltender.

            Maybe you should put a little more thought and research into this.

          • Cardiac says:

            Exactly, he inherited an LA team who was in rebuilding mode. What kind of team do you think he’ll be getting in Montreal.

            As for his goaltending, he had Turco and Smith in Dallas… big time duds,,,

            “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
            - Jerry Maguire

          • TomNickle says:

            If you’re going to compare the current edition of the Habs to any team that Crawford had you won’t find one even remotely similar.

          • Cardiac says:

            At last!!! We agree on something!!!

            If he couldn’t find a way to win with a great young team in LA, do you now understand why I’m skeptical to how successful he can be in Montreal?

            “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
            - Jerry Maguire

      • TomNickle says:

        That’s a very uninformed opinion. If you look at every coaching stop Crawford’s had, he’s been the guy to get the most out of his star players.

        Let me ask you this. What have Brendan Morrison and Todd Bertuzzi done since their days with Crawford standing behind them? Alex Frolov? What did Valerie Kamensky do following Crawford’s departure? Sandis Ozolinch? How about Brad Richards? Hell, Patrick O’Sullivan was a 50 point player for Crawford.

        • Cardiac says:

          I think the answer for Bertuzzi is obvious… he was never the same after the Moore incident. Morrison benefited from playing with Bertuzzi and Naslund, hence the West Coast Express reference. When Naslund began having injury problems, Morrison’s productivity when downhill. Last week I compared him to Desharnais benefiting from Cole and Pacioretty.

          Kamensky played with two of the best centers in the past 20 years, Sakic and Forsberg… I suppose Crawford got the best out of Tanguay and Drury the same way he did Kamensky?

          Ozolinsh was already a great defenseman in the making while he was playing in San Jose, so I’ll give you that.

          Brad Richards was a great player in Tampa and still is… as we’ve seen the past couple of weeks. He was a shining star (no pun intended) on a really bad Dallas team. Hardly any of that was Crawford’s doing… IMO…

          Patrick O’Sullivan? Really? Any player can have a spark year at any time. Really Tom, you pulled that one out of your keister, didn’t you?

          “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
          - Jerry Maguire

          • TomNickle says:

            So when a coach doesn’t get the most out of his players he’s doing a bad job and when he does get the most out of his players he’s not doing a good job?

            Got it.

            So professional sports should eliminate coaches if they’re useless.

            It would appear you aren’t willing to so much as acknowledge that Crawford at the very least has his stars play well.

          • Cardiac says:

            I never said he did a bad job… I just said his coaching skills are overrated.

            When a coach doesn’t get the most out of his players, no he is not doing his job.

            But when a star player plays like a star player, it’s usually the player doing his job, not the coach. If it was the other way around, coaches would be making the big bucks… not the players.

            Furthermore, I’m having a civil disagreement with your assessment of Crawford and I don’t see why you have to be so condescending. Are you so used to people agreeing with you that you don’t know how to handle yourself what someone doesn’t?

            “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
            - Jerry Maguire

          • TomNickle says:

            Your argument is crap. You put down his Stanley Cup championship and chalked it up to a great roster.

            The team he won with had three stars. Forsberg, Sakic and Roy.

            Claude Lemieux had 71 points that season(His second best in offensive production). Scott Young had 60 points(Also his second best as a pro).

            Crawford may have won only one Cup with that team. But he got the most out of that roster whether you like it or not.

            In Vancouver he had a record of 246-189-67 with Dan Cloutier and Felix Potvin as his goalies.

            In his Los Angeles time he again had Dan Cloutier. Kopitar scored 61 points in 71 games as a rookie under Crawford. And I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but that’s coaching and talent. Rookies don’t come into the league and enjoy that kind of success in this era without being handled properly.

            His final year in Dallas he had a 95 point season and missed the playoffs.

            Whenever he has a goaltender capable of being average or better he does very well. And I repeat, he always gets the most out of his star players.

            You speak of star players producing like it’s expected but how many times have we seen stars flop with sub-par coaching? Jason Spezza had 57 points last season for Cory Clouston.

            Mike Richards had 44 points this season largely playing under Murray in Los Angeles. Kopitar had 76 and while that certainly isn’t a bad season he scored one more point than that in his second NHL season playing for Crawford. He can produce much more than what Terry Murray was getting out of him.

            Point is, we take it for granted when star players put up big numbers and if the coach is to blame for stars not performing up to expectations, they must share some of the credit when they do.

    • commandant says:

      I agree on Carbo, Therrien and Hartley. Bad choices.

      Crawford may not have sent Bertuzzi, but as I said above, that trial is a huge distraction the team doesn’t need.

      Gallant is interesting… NHL experience, Mega Junior success, familiar with at least 1 of our prospects. Of course the unfortunate question (even if some of us hate it) must be asked, does he speak french? He’s an Acadien from PEI, but that doesn’t mean he speaks the language. Don’t want to turn this post into a question of whether or not this should be a criteria for the coaching question (I don’t think it should). The reality is that given the Cunneyworth experience, this coach will speak french.

      Lefebvre? Don’t know enough about him as a coach to comment.

      Go Habs Go!
      Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
      http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

      • TomNickle says:

        Lefebvre has only been an assistant to Joe Sacco for a few seasons. Three I think.

        Denis Savard should be getting consideration too. Quenneville’s Cup could easily have been his. That may not be fair to Quenneville but we’ll never know.

    • jon514 says:

      Hmmm… I agree with a lot of your assessments except Carbo. If you refuse to consider someone based on any negative heresay, you would never hire anyone.

      Carbo got fired, IMO, because he was feuding with Kovalev and some of the other headstrong players in the room. Plekanec was one of the few guys around when Carbo was coaching, so I’d hope Bergevin would ask him what he thinks about bringing him back. Don’t forget that Plek had his most complete season in terms of points scored and plus/minus playing for Carbo.

      • TomNickle says:

        There’s no hearsay to go by. Feuding with Kovalev, refusing to sit Price in favour of Halak, all rumours.

        Only Gainey, Molson, Gauthier, Gillette, Anlauer and Carbonneau know why the move was made.

        Carbonneau was also rushed into coaching the team. He should have taken an assistant coach’s job if he wanted his own team in the NHL again. To me that says that he feels he doesn’t have anything to learn. Not a good candidate in my opinion.

    • The Dude says:

      Hey Tom ,maybe before you type “and call people out” do your homework ,eh! I live on the best coast and seen the game “Moore incident” and the match they”the two teams” played before. As told by Big Bert “Crawford “made the plea to stop Moore who was trying and almost ended Nasland with a knee on knee and many other attempts to throw the Canucks off they’re game” best team in hockey”. Crawford is a twit as are all who like him,lol

      • TomNickle says:

        So being at the game got you into the dressing room and on the bench to hear what Crawford said to his team?

        Easy on the booze by the way, it’s only 8:30am where you are.

        • The Dude says:

          WHEN THE CAMERA IS ON THE BENCH and the Coach is animated and loud you can read lips ! Now that you understand what we all seen out here,close your eye’s and imagine what my lips are saying to you!

  36. Bripro says:

    I figured if I’m posting this early, I might as well make sure I’m not the only depressed one.
    Who read Boone’s article in this morning’s gazette?
    I hadn’t realized just how deep the 2003 NHL draft was (AK being our selection).
    We missed Mike Richards(24th), Jeff Carter(11th), Dustin Brown (13th), Zach Parise(17th), Seabrook, Getzlaf, Kesler, Perry, Bergeron, and Shea Weber.
    With all that talent, how is it that so many teams skipped over so many? More importantly, how did the Hab’s scouts missed all of these guys?
    I can’t believe that AK has turned into such a bust!

    • shiram says:

      At least he is an active NHL player.

      • RGM says:

        Not for long.

        ———————–
        GO HABS GO! Maybe 2012-13 will be our year!
        “Scott Gomez is an elite NHL player” – VancouverHab

        Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

    • Cardiac says:

      He was actually considered a steal when we drafted him as many GMs were reluctant to take a guy with seizure problems…

      With that said, it could have been worse. We could have drafted the likes of Hugh Jessiman, Robert Nilsson, Marc-Antoine Pouliot or any other ho-hum player drafted that year.

      “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
      - Jerry Maguire

    • Kooch7800 says:

      It was a boo boo but what can you do. Ak has all of the skill and tools but his problem is between his ears. He is big and has soft hands but his problem is effort/consistency.

      Man how good would Brown look on this team. That guys is awesome or Shea Weber…..

      oh well. Let us hope we pick the right player this year!

      “Like Canadian Hip hop..check us out http://www.groovecontrolmusic.com

  37. Chuck says:

    Vernon… Kelowna… the Okanagan Valley… great place to spend the summer months.

    ___________________________________________________
    Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

  38. Old Bald Bird says:

    We must be running out of the things to get hysterical about. I don’t know exactly what Carey is doing on the rodeo circuit, but I don’t suppose he is actually busting broncos or riding bulls.

    • shiram says:

      I’m sure Halak only eats protein shakes and vitamins in a padded room, to protect his health. Should have gone with the goalie with the least dangerous lifestyle.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Article mentioned paying $80 to enter “team steer herding” contest. Mentions too he keeps three horses for competition, and like a head coach, goes with the one that’s sharp in practice. If he had my twisted sense of humor, he would name them Halak, Thomas, and Lundqvist.

      “May you live in interesting times.”

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      Don’t really care about Price’s safety. It’s the animals who are most at risk. And they’re not doing this of their own free will either. Stupid cruel sport.


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

      • Clay says:

        We see eye to eye on this issue. Rodeo is cruel indeed. Should be banned.
        Other than that, I could give a sh^t what Price does with his free time.
        __________________________
        ☞ “Wow, that’s a nice lookin’ pair of Crocs!” Said no one ever.☜

      • New says:

        If it wasn’t for the sport the animals wouldn’t exist.

  39. shiram says:

    Players can get hurt while eating pancakes, teams have to draw a line as to what is acceptable or not, for the Habs, rodeo is ok. I’m sure if Cherry had his way baseball would be disallowed in the off-season.
    Also was glad to see Roy is not on Mckenzie’s list, not that I have anything against Roy, but I’d prefer to be taken by surprise by the new HC.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Random examples: Joe Nieuwendyk tore an ACL playing in World Ice Hockey Championships; later added a Stanley Cup Ring playing with Brett Quick Toes Hull in Dallas to the one he won as a rookie playing with the Flames team that won on Forum ice. Eric Johnson ex-Blues, now an Avalanche tore an ACL riding a golfcart with his leg sticking out. The Flower cut up an ear driving into a pole. Tim Horton, Pelle Lindberg, and Steve Chiasson all died while driving. Anyway….life happens.

      P.S. I’ve got respect for Dustin Penner for being the source of info about the Pancake Injury. He could have told the team doctor/trainer any plausible story, but probably decided to bring some humour to the situation. The guy gets lots of negative press but he’s having a good playoffs. Shows what big-bodied guys who can skate, like him and Chris Kreider can bring to a team at playoff time. Here’s hopin’ Rene Bourque has this extra gear in him.

      “May you live in interesting times.”

  40. boing007 says:

    Perhaps Price first injured his neck while performing at the rodeo or while participating in some other physical activity and it was later aggravated by the Desharnais hit? Glad to see that he can twitter, chew gum and ride a horse at the same time.

    Richard R
    Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

    • Actually he injured his neck break dancing in the night before. They are using hockey as a cover up. They should trade Price asap, they guy’s a Canadian bum who only plays for himself. :lol: As for twitter, gum and beating a dead horse. You and Carey having something in common. haha

      They Call Me Shane
      “They never asked to be Canadiens, they were Chosen.”
      Shane Oliver
      Twitter @Sholi2000
      http://www.Sholi2000.com
      Custom Sports Figures

  41. Any man can pay to have his yard done up, but it’shard to appreciate it as much as a man/woman who does their own work.

    You’re a good man Carey Price. The team could use 15 more like you.

    Back to work gents.

    They Call Me Shane
    “They never asked to be Canadiens, they were Chosen.”
    Shane Oliver
    Twitter @Sholi2000
    http://www.Sholi2000.com
    Custom Sports Figures

  42. TommyB says:

    If Bob Mackenzie is correct, and I have no reason to doubt him, the Habs are speaking to Carbo, Therrien, Crawford, and Hartley, regarding the vacant coaching position. That’s disappointing to hear. Are there no fresher candidates out there? Of course, the common denominator there is language. I get, and understand that.

    Crawford and Hartley have been out of the loop for awhile now. Nobody else is giving them a call? Wonder why. Crawford still has the Bertuzzi dirt stuck on his face so maybe that’s the reason he sits unemployed, and Hartley…I dunno, but he’s been available to NHL teams for a few seasons now and he’s still out of the league. Maybe there is some blackballing going on, who knows.

    Carbo and Therrien have both held the position before. Why can’t we just leave it that way. Neither one worked out well. Both were short term. Therrien would be particularly scary to me. I’d hate to see the team go backward. Find a fresh face, with fresh ideas….someone younger perhaps. Don’t ask me who. I don’t have the answer.

    I was cool to the idea of Roy as coach, but looking at these mentioned candidates, maybe Patrick is not such a bad choice after all. Anyway, regardless of who they pin the head coach label on, I hope the reports that Larry Robinson is interested in coming in as an assistant are true. Do it! One icy stare from Big Bird would keep any young d-man, or any other player on the bench, from getting out of line. Same goes for the head coach. Robinson commands respect. Even the head coach would be wise to pay attention to whatever Larry has to offer in the form of advice.

    Patiently waiting. Hire the right people. Let’s get it right this time.

    • punkster says:

      Interviewing those has beens? Hopefully it’s for the same reason they interviewed McGuire for GM. Throws the wingnuts a bone to keep them happy.

      ***Subbang Baby!!!***

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      Crawford was fired in 2006, 2008, and 2011. Therrien is a thug. Carbo crashed the team into a ditch last time around.

      Isn’t there some up and coming junior coach out there?


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • PureGuava says:

      I don’t think any of them are very inspired choices, but to be honest, Therrien intrigues me…

      1) He wasn’t that bad when he was here
      2) Before he took the reigns of the Pens, he had an AHL record with the WB Pens.
      3) Went into Pittsburgh and trimmed all the dead weight (John Leclair) and called up the majority of his AHL team and won with youth and grit
      4) Had Pens in the final almost immediately after he took over
      5) He was as much a part of the Pens Cup as Blysma, although nobody wants to admit it.

      “Of course I’m crazy, but that doesn’t mean I’m wrong.”
      - Robert Anton Wilson

      • TommyB says:

        I disagree. In Pittsburgh Therrien was a disaster. He constantly threw his players under the bus publicly and they played to get him fired because of it.

        • PureGuava says:

          ya, and it worked in the long run for that team. When he was fired they all hated him….but they got their cup.

          “Of course I’m crazy, but that doesn’t mean I’m wrong.”
          - Robert Anton Wilson

      • Malreg says:

        There must be something seriously wrong with him to get fired not even a full season after taking his team to the Stanley Cup finals.

        • Lafleurguy says:

          Politics are everywhere. Three times was a charm for Claude Julien. Got canned twice before winning the Prize. Therrien is no more a hothead than Tortorella and getting that bench minor to set up a two-man disadvantage was strictly a judgement call by the ref.

          “May you live in interesting times.”

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      The concept of grooming Boucher in Hamilton was the right idea. If they do this again (not sure about the present guy), it should be done with the understanding that they’re there for the length of their contract no matter what offers come along.

  43. Propwash says:

    Errmahgerrd, Price has a life outside of hockey! How can this be allowed? He should be locked in a padded room in a basement of some abandoned building, whipped and tortured for allowing any puck to go past him!

    What is the organization thinking???? Fire them all!!! Pack up the organization and send them to Las Vegas!!!!!!!

    Doooooooooooooooomed!!!!!

    _____________________________
    “Access Forbidden” gettin’ ya down?
    Hold down Shift while clicking refresh.

    • LNev says:

      Probably the most dangerous thing any of these athletes do in the off season is actual training.

      As an extreme example (which around here means, most like and common occurance): ‘member Straka breaking his back when the weight machine broke/failed?

  44. HardHabits says:

    Jack Todd’s article. I stopped reading at “Enough, already.”

    Here’s my headline: Jack Todd’s articles are boring

  45. Thomas Le Fan says:

    Seeing as we’re digging up bones this morning, how could Toe Blake trade Jacques Plante?

    • Bill H says:

      Yours was the first post I read today. Nice to start off the day with a laugh. Thanks for that, Thomas.

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      Selke was manager at the time. I remember a comment that Geoffrion was going to ram his stick down Plante’s throat unless something changed. Habs did pretty well with Worsely and Hodge for while. But yeah, it would be nice to see some of these stars remain Habs forever.

  46. CanadienBoy says:

    So Dudley coming to Montreal but can not do so till after the draft , how will that affect the contracts negotiations of Price and PK

  47. commandant says:

    No profile today, but I did a Memorial Cup Preview instead.

    http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/05/15/2012-memorial-cup-preview/

    Go Habs Go!
    Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
    http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

  48. Old Bald Bird says:

    Carbo was an utter disaster who caught a tailwind in his first year and who had no clue in the second when things began to fall apart. His personnel decisions were almost as bad as JM’s. He had no long term vision and admitted to deciding on what to practice on his drive into the rink.

    He might have potential, but instead of learning the job elsewhere, he sits awaiting to be crowned once again by the Habs. He couldn’t even coach the U18 team. If he gets hired, I may have to back off from following the Habs after a lifetime of fandom.

    I’m relatively neutral about a lot of things that get discussed on this site, but not about Carbo’s lack of suitability for the job.

  49. HabinBurlington says:

    Thanks for the interview Mr. Stubbs, I have no issues with Carey doing his rode roping over the summer. I think it is great for athletes to get away from their sport in the offseason in order to give them some much needed mental rest. I am old school when it comes to conditioning and figure that along with his regular workout routines the rodeo stuff just makes him tougher. I wish all of our dmen worked on a farm in the summer, give me farm tough defencemen any day of the week.

    Hopefully he and Bergevin can get a contract worked out smoothly.

    And one final question, did we make a trade involving McDonagh? I seem to read every day that indeed the Habs made a trade involving this young dman. Seems to me that if we could properly dissect this trade made by past management it would then make us all feel better while at the same time improving the team. ;-)

    • punkster says:

      Howdy Burl :)…had a lovely round in the sun yesterday. Well the score wasn’t so great bu the weather was excellent.

      As to allowing players to work a farm in the off season, I’m afraid the Nervous Nellies here wouldn’t go for that. Could throw out your back shovelling out the cow barn. Or drop a milk can on your toe. No, they should live in hermetically sealed bubbles in the off season.

      ***Subbang Baby!!!***

  50. ths says:

    I would put Carbo back in if Roy doesnt come. Roy would be great show value if nothing else

    Ooh Aah Habs on the golf course

  51. jon514 says:

    This is from Bob McKenzie’s blog:

    “The Canadiens are in the process of touching base with potential head coach candidates including Michel Therrien, Guy Carbonneau, Marc Crawford, and Bob Hartley. Interviews have not been set up and the process is in the early stages.”

    I’m really happy to hear a step backwards is not out of the question. Carbo in particular I felt got a raw deal in Montreal. First in the conference one year, fired the next… He was also the only coach in recent memory who was able to pull the best out of guys like AK46, Higgins, Kovalev…

    • fun police says:

      he got the best out of S.Kots, M. Ryder, Grabs, Samsonov, begin etc… Carbo was by no means a good coach. teams aren’t exactly lining up to rehire him. people have short term memory. remember his 5-3′s? Smolinski had two goals all year but he was better suited to play a 5-3 because he was a right handed shot.
      also, i will never forgive him for how he coached against toronto in the winner take all game. remember, he said that we would do the same thing again. lets move forward, not backwards.

  52. Lafleurguy says:

    Paradox. David D. falls on Pricebot fully protected in hockey gear, and he gets a neck and head injury. Years of rodeo stuff and one wonders what injuries Carey has sustained from it. Maybe those cowboy hats are uber-protective.

    “May you live in interesting times.”

    • The Cat says:

      The fact that Price is even allowed to do rodeo just shows the preferential treatment he gets. The habs are truly stupid when it comes to him; they got rid of all his competition and give him all the leverage possible with contracts etc.

      [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

      • Lafleurguy says:

        By the way Cat, I cringe at how much the Habs misjudged McDonagh. Sorry you had to be the target of some name-calling.
        Equally poorly planned trades of the past include Chelios (Denis S.), giving up Leclair, Desjardins (another all-star), and Marcel’s baby bro for Dr. Recchi. Non-Habs scenario, Canucks giving up Cam Neely AND Moe Lemay for Barry Pederson. Markus Naslund for Alex Stoichanov (Canadian kid) was a win for the Canucks. The list is endless.

        “May you live in interesting times.”

        • The Cat says:

          Thanks man. I know theres been bad trades but considering the salary cap era, the money (and its crippling effects) switching sides has to be factored in in a big way. Taking on the money was one thing but to throw away a top pairing d-man for 10 years potentially is huge.

          [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

        • Habfan10912 says:

          Good morning Cat and Guy. I hate the fact that we are going to suffer from watching McDonagh for the next 10+ years. It pisses me off everyone I hear the name or see the kid play. It shows a clear lack of good judgement from the Habs former leadership. Is it possible that they showed a similar lack of judgement in removing Carbonneau? I am beginning to warm up to Guy part 2. Thoughts?

          ———————————–

          • The Cat says:

            Good morning HF, I think Carbo would be a good choice. I dont think he was a bad coach, sure the bowling decision was disastrous (the team couldnt be tired since Guy rolled 4 lines pretty consistently). But I think Guy can take a team to the cup. He likes solid 5on5 play and I like that too. Better than the pray for great goaltending and hope to score a couple on the PP current way of doing things.

            [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

        • jon514 says:

          Here’s hoping we learn from our mistakes and do not trade Tinordi, Ellis or Beaulieu!

      • punkster says:

        Ya, I’m glad they don’t let the rest of the players drive motorcycles or fast cars, go skiing or biking, or take showers on their own. The place would be a walking infirmary.

        Come on Cat, preferential treatment because he does rodeo? You can do, and have done, way better than this when dissing the Habs.

        ***Subbang Baby!!!***

  53. The Cat says:

    The more I watch McDonagh play and considering the habs needs at the time, the more I think the trade has the potential to be one of the worst trades of all time of any team.

    [Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

  54. Habitant in Surrey says:

    Jack Todd, The Gazette: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Jack+Todd+playoffs+boring/6614490/story.html

    …they say, ‘anything is possible’ …to prove that adage, Jack Todd actually authors a column I 100 % agree with :)

    …especially His thought to restrict numbers in ‘the key’ in front of the goalie

    • Lizardking89 says:

      You may not agree with what he says but his articles are entertaining. I especially loved these quotes:

      “all those blocked shots are a big part of the reason these playoffs have all the flow of a blocked toilet”

      “Rene Bourque posted a photo on Twitter – of himself on a beach in Maui. Clueless? Uncaring? Just plain dumb? All of the above.”

      “For the Stars, hiring Bob Gainey as a “senior adviser” is just plain nutty. It didn’t work here, it won’t work anywhere. What happens now? Gainey hires Pierre Gauthier as a senior adviser to the senior adviser?”

      “Surprised to see Saku Koivu sign for another year in Anaheim – at $3 million. Still less than half what Scott Gomez is making for being half the player Koivu is – and about one-tenth the man. …”

      • Rogie Protégée says:

        Todd’s a total whiner – what purpose do his comments serve other than to further alienate someone who’s had trouble finding his groove / making the transition from one totally different environment to another.

        And you feel the need to “copy & paste” this kind of negativism, regurgitating something that should have been left behind with the rest of (yesterday’s) trash ?

        What is it about this town – once people get on someone … They’re like dogs. WTF’s wrong with going to Maui anyway?

        ***********************************************************

        Some of us grew up in an era – when the boards were all white; the game was just as clean (players respected each other) and yer Habs (my friends), brought home the cup with a great degree of regularity!

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        Why is Gomez “one tenth the man” Saku is? Gomez sounds like a good guy. He just can’t play hockey anymore.

        And is ” flow of a blocked toilet” really a good metaphor?


        Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  55. Habitant in Surrey says:

    @Commandant

    …that Damien Brunner cat looks like he has skill …as long as he doesn’t turn out to be another Fabien Brunstrom :)

    • shootdapuck says:

      Chris,

      Or another Diaz or Weber!

      World beaters in practice, but when the going gets rough; deer in the headlights.

      =================================================
      The cerebral insight of PJ Stock:

      “Le problem est Markov n’a pas jouer un seul game cette annee”
      “Louis Leblanc est un kid locale”

  56. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …I get some urges to scratch My head when I read Burke’s whining/worries on Dudley’s joining Our Habs prior to The Draft …as IF We care a wiener schnitzel what Da Weeds’ or ‘The Brain’ Burke’s draft strategies are …other than do absolutely ‘the opposite’ :)

    • Habs_4_ever says:

      Marc Bergevin said that he would first put all of his support staff together and then collectively decide on a new coach. So if Dudley only shows up after the draft, does that mean that they are nowhere close to deciding on a new coach?

      I can’t wait to see some movement/decisions made so that I can get a feel for what direction MB is taking the team.

      ————————
      “Can we lose the parade float?…..Thank you!”
      -This Old House, GMC commercial-

  57. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …I don’t know …JayK’s fun at Carey’s expense is fun to read, I suppose, on one hand …but, the more rational side of Me sees, someday, 1000 pounds of horse landing awkwardly on Carey’s wrists and/or other limbs, causing not only Himself deep pain, but as well a certain Hockey Team back east

    If Management can’t persuade Our stud goalie to understand the risk, this draft must include ‘insurance’ for the inevitable

  58. JayK-47 says:

    ROCKY MOUNTAIN HORROR SHOW:

    WHERE HAVE THE MILLIONS GONE? PRICE BROKE?

    On Saturday, Price drove up to Vernon, B.C., a 50-minute jaunt north of his summer home in Kelowna, callusing his palms to earn about $600 (after his $80 entry fee) in the second annual Louis Estates Lucky 7’s team steer-roping event.

    DOES PRICE RISK LIFE AND LIMB BY PRACTICING DRUNKEN RODEO? SAFETY OF PRIZED FREE AGENT IN DOUBT?

    “But you can get a DUI while riding,” he said of “driving” under the influence.

    Surely that ticket is not on his record?

    “Not yet, no,” he said

    PRICE AMBIVALENT ABOUT HABS, WILLING TO MAKE MOVE TO ANOTHER TEAM?

    “I’m really not the type of guy who’s going to push everything to get (a contract) done”

    A ROOM APART? PRICE WILLING TO SHOOT TEAMMATE JOSH GORGES, FEELS UNSAFE IN OWN HOME AND HAS ARMED HIMSELF.

    “Josh can come and try it,” Price said brightly, “provided he wants to pick shotgun pellets out of his (butt).”

    THERE YOU HAVE IT FOLKS, LIVE DRAMA UNFOLDING BEFORE OUR VERY EYES! A LIFE AND DEATH STRUGGLE AT THE PINNACLE OF THE GAME! WILL CAREY KILL IN SELF-DEFENSE? WILL A DEFENSIVE DEFENSEMAN GO ON THE OFFENSE? WILL PRICE CHASE A BLUE RIBBON PRIZE IN THE FOG OF PABST BLUE RIBBON?

    MONEY, MURDER, INTRIGUE!

  59. ProHabs says:

    I still wish Price would have kicked Timmy Thomas’ a$$ last year right at center ice in the Gardens.

  60. commandant says:

    There are reports that Damien Brunner of Switzerland is the target of a number of NHL teams, as a european free agent. Montreal is rumored to be among the teams chasing him. We did a quick write up on the site.

    Go Habs Go!
    Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
    http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

    • naweed235 says:

      he seems like a good depth scoring player on the 3rd line… I am sure we can find a spot for him there… P.S. man those Swiss Eite League Unis are a$$ Ugly

      • naweed235 says:

        actually after watching those highlights I’d say he can play on our 1st line haha… funny how these highlight reels can be misleading… but he sure has some sick hands…

        • commandant says:

          Yeah, I never judge a guy’s potential by highlights alone. Pavel Brendl has an amazing highlight package on youtube.

          Still though, our prospect pool is kinda weak at forward, if this guy can provide any offence, he’s worth the risk considering we’ll give up nothing for him. Could be like a Raphael Diaz.

          Go Habs Go!
          Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
          http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

          • chemic says:

            trust me, i have seen this guys for the last two years in almost every single homegame and he sure has some sick hands. he also does execute well on the shoot out.

            he also has a very competitive attitude, a huge mouth and he knows how to beat the Rags. sadly he doesnt speak french ;-)! he would be perfect as a 3rd liner on our team but like Diaz, he needs to put up some weight on his body over the summer.

            our scouts were at the game against finnland at the worlds to watch him according to some hockey media.

            and the best part of it, this guy has the same family name like me, so i would love to wear a habs jersey with my name on it :-)

          • commandant says:

            Thanks Chemic, nice to hear from someone who gets to see him up close on a regular basis. With guys like this, I’m just going off a couple World Champs games, not the best sample size.

            Go Habs Go!
            Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
            http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

        • RGM says:

          Hey now, the YouTube scouting team got NHL jobs for Fabian Brunnstrom and Jonas Gustavsson. LOL

          ———————–
          GO HABS GO! Maybe 2012-13 will be our year!
          “Scott Gomez is an elite NHL player” – VancouverHab

          Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

  61. db says:

    A new poll would be nice… I’m curious who everyone is rooting for.

    LA
    PHX
    NY
    NJ
    None of the above?

  62. habstrinifan says:

    Well there goes game 1.

  63. commandant says:

    I knew it, Rangers were going to steal this game.

    New Jersey needed to capitalize on all those chances.

    Go Habs Go!
    Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
    http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

  64. habstrinifan says:

    Finally some playoffs nerves. I am rooting for NJ.

  65. HardHabits says:

    Looking at these play-offs and seeing just how crucial goaltending has been it stands to reason that Price being a member of the Habs organization is a major boon for the team. The Habs problem last season stemmed from the lack of defensive zone clearing capability from the small and soft Habs back-end. I think Price needs to be given the opportunity to show what he can do but in order for that to happen the Habs need to put together a team that can do it with him so that he can hit his stride and peak proper. The Habs need to be a team that doesn’t rely on Price so that he isn’t required to play 70 games. That implies better defensive zone coverage and a goaltending tandem where both goalies have winning records and the back-up is used more than just sparingly. I still think the Habs can sign Price for 5-6 years for around a 5 million cap hit per year, that by back loading the contract.

    • kirkiswork says:

      Secondary goal scoring is also a major problem, how many 1 goal games did we lose ?

      • HardHabits says:

        I totally agree. I mentioned recently that in the past few years the Habs have only been able to put together one really good line, and those lines up to date have been short lived.

        Ryder-Koivu-Higgins
        A. Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev
        Tanguay-Koivu-Kovalev
        Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole

        It would be nice to have tertiary scoring as well.

      • RGM says:

        Primary goal scoring was the problem. LOL

        ———————–
        GO HABS GO! Maybe 2012-13 will be our year!
        “Scott Gomez is an elite NHL player” – VancouverHab

        Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

    • habstrinifan says:

      Exactly why I wanted Stubbs to hint at a significantly reduced workload for Price (providing of course the season is more ‘stable’ than 2011).

      Put me in the camp who wonders how Price would handle a reduced workload mentally.

      And I aint meaning to start an argument here.

      • L Elle says:

        It’s not just playing many games. It’s knowing, or feeling like you have to get a shutout every game, or your team won’t win. That is the mental fatigue.

        As well, having the opponent right around your crease for the majority of the game. Often being scored on after the third shot. No defensive support or goal support.

        If the team as a whole improves, then the goalies’ life becomes easier.

        But, I agree, Budaj (or whoever) needs to play more games. Not necessarily a tandem.

  66. habstrinifan says:

    Me love girl guide cookies… NOT the minty ones. Just deoured half-a-box I had been keeping in the pantry for some months.

    Please Mr. Bergevin.. I need some HABS news.

  67. Sir.Plekers says:

    Good to hear that hes recovered.
    SIR PLEKERS

  68. habstrinifan says:

    Latest on the Dudley to Mtl from Bob McKenzie of TSN as published on TSN.CA today under caption “Leafs place condition….”.

    “It appears that if Rick Dudley wants to leave Toronto to join the Montreal Canadiens, the Maple Leafs will not stand in his way.”

    TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie has learned that if Dudley takes a position with Montreal, as could happen by the end of the month, it would be conditional on him not being able to work on the NHL Draft for the Canadiens.

  69. otter649 says:

    At least The NHL got one thing right concerning officals going into the final two rounds no Steve Walkholm (sp) as a ref……

  70. habstrinifan says:

    OK here goes! Tried very hard to hide my disappointment with the Carey Price interview/article. I had been looking forward to it after seeing mention of it in one of the previous threads.

    Don’t mean to offend Mr. Stubbs but it seemed more like you were being a pal than a journalist on this one. And I am an admirer of your work.

    • Propwash says:

      Out of curiosity, what were you hoping Stubbs was going to ask Price?

      _____________________________
      “Access Forbidden” gettin’ ya down?
      Hold down Shift while clicking refresh.

      • L Elle says:

        Do Markov and PK really get along?

        If you don’t get the big contract, will you leave?

        Do you miss Alex Auld?

        If you could punch someone on the team, who would it be?

        Is it true you all hated Pierre Gauthier?

        Boy, I could go on and on. :)

      • habstrinifan says:

        Taking into consideration Price’s late season injuries and the need to establish the true credentials of Budaj as a backup goalie, Stubbs may have asked Price something like, “Would you like to see the 2012 season be a successful enough season that your number of consecutive games played can be changed from the past season’.

        A gentle way at asking re establishing a true goaltending-tandem pattern in Mtl… which we havent had in a while.

        Price may not have chosen to answer but least it would have been asked.

        Do you thnk it is a fair question?

        Edit: While writing the post I tried coming up with the goalie who accepted a real backup-role in Mtl and did it well His name starts with an H….(I think).. and I cant get the name. Think he played with Hartford also.

        • otter649 says:

          Halak-Jeff Hackett-Brian Hayward….

          • habstrinifan says:

            Hayward…. thank you. He did a great job here… or as it Hackett? LOL!

            I think it is Hayward whom I am remembering fondly.

          • otter649 says:

            Hayward worked with Roy but Hackett really helped/supported Theodore to became a No 1 goalie…….

          • AceMagnum says:

            Hayward never played with Hartford.

        • Propwash says:

          It is a fair question, however if the coach tells you to play, you play unless you’re hurt. It would look bad for him to say he would like to play less.

          _____________________________
          “Access Forbidden” gettin’ ya down?
          Hold down Shift while clicking refresh.

    • Dave Stubbs says:

      I’d be happy to discuss a little about the realities of a chat the type I had Saturday with Carey Price. Drop an email to me at dstubbs@montrealgazette.com if you wish.

      Dave Stubbs

      Hockey Inside/Out
      Sports Columnist/Feature Writer, Montreal Gazette
      • On Twitter: twitter.com/habsinsideout1
      • Email: dstubbs@montrealgazette.com

  71. commandant says:

    Devils are the better team, but you get the feeling its just a matter of time til the Rangers steal the lead on a funny bounce or something else weird.

    Go Habs Go!
    Visit Your NHL Draft Headquarters
    http://lastwordonsports.com/category/lastwordblog/nhldraft/

  72. ont fan says:

    Wow CBC has a man crush on” He who must not be named.”It’s like watching the golf channel and they can’t not say 2 sentences without mentioning Tiger Woods

  73. Trisomy 21 says:

    Commence angry Habs fans who can’t take the truth from someone on CBC. Go!

    • matt jordan says:

      The only part that I didn’t like from Healy’s statement is that he blamed Gainey for the McDonagh trade. I blame the head pro scout and assistant GM at the time, GAUTHIER.

      • ProHabs says:

        GM has final say. He is the one who gives the last OK to pull the trigger. If the GM doesn’t like the trade, he tells his pro scout to go eat a sausage.

        • matt jordan says:

          From Prohockeytalk:
          http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/07/blame-pierre-was-gauthier-the-reason-mcdonagh-got-traded-to-new-york/

          “The trade of McDonagh to the Rangers to get Scott Gomez came on Bob Gainey’s watch when he was the GM. This should tarnish Gainey’s reputation for knowing who can play in the NHL and who can’t, but several sources say Gauthier’s fingerprints were really all over this one.

          “Bob’s daughter had died (swept overboard at sea while working on a training ship) before this and he was letting Pierre do a lot of the work. Pierre didn’t like McDonagh, for some reason. Saw him play in the world juniors and didn’t like him. The scouts loved McDonagh, though. When he was traded, they couldn’t believe it,” said a source close to the scene.

          “At least make up your mind on McDonagh after he’s played a few seasons.”

          Instead, McDonagh was dealt on June 30, 2009 while he was still attending the University of Wisconsin, after he had finished his junior year there. He had just turned 20.

          “The scouts didn’t think he was going to put up a lot of points, but he was big (213 pounds) and he competed,” said the source.”

          Unfortunately for Gainey, he had his trust in the wrong guy, and someone who is the head pro scout and Asst GM does have a lot of say in the matter.

          Its a good thing Gauthier was let go this year, because he would have had many more opportunities to make this team worse, and he would have. Gauthier was given a 65M dollar budget and accomplished something Rejean Houle was not capable of with less than half the budget, last place.

          • matt jordan says:

            ugh, for clarity the last two paragraphs are my opinions. the other paragraphs are from Prohockeytalk

          • ProHabs says:

            Agree with that. Gauthier was a useless plug. But if you have the GM title, it is your neck (reputation) on the line. If you are not calling the shots, give up the title and job of GM. Personally, I would not want my reputation to be out of my control and I would not want to depend on the work of others to make my reputation. Unfortunately, Gainey was the person who had the GM title at the time of the McDonagh-Gomez trade so he gets the credit (or blame) for it.

            Thanks for sharing the link to the prohockeytalk piece.

          • habstrinifan says:

            I agree with Pro Habs. I understand that Gainey was going through a personal life trauma. True his daughter’s passing was a good while before the trade but there was still some unpleasantness re the circumstances coming out of the investigation which Gainey had to deal with and which no father should have to.

            But having said all that and being as understanding as possible. Gainey spoke to Sather and Sather spoke to Gainey and in the end it was Gainey’s signature move.

            And believe me I hate the abysmal effect that Gauthier (and his pal JM) had on our franchise. But to totally absolve Gainey is wrong.

  74. Psycho29 says:

    Ok I’ve seen it enough times now, that Lanny McDonald goal was offside… I want a protest officially lodged by the Habs…

    :-)

    • Dave Stubbs says:

      Lanny didn’t even score the damn winning goal, as many recall. That was Calgary’s second goal in their 4-2 clinching win, the only Stanley Cup the Habs ever lost on Montreal Forum ice. The winning goal, and the empty-net insurance goal, were scored by… Doug Gilmour.

      Dave Stubbs

      Hockey Inside/Out
      Sports Columnist/Feature Writer, Montreal Gazette
      • On Twitter: twitter.com/habsinsideout1
      • Email: dstubbs@montrealgazette.com

  75. habstrinifan says:

    WOW! Price raking his property by himself… and pine needles too.

    I find raking my yard to be way harder than shoveling my driveway.


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