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• Canadiens will have to be disciplined
• Academics tackle Habs
• The Canadiens’ obsession with secrecy
• Habs prospects on World Junior roster
• Roy MacGregor on All-Concussion team
• Stu Hackel on the concussion epidemic
• Dave Bolland rips “Sedin sisters”
• Sutter to L.A.
…was just catching-up on HIO’s shenanigans and now see that Robert Rice has indicated He will no longer contribute His Habs’ Future column because of His distaste or ‘moral objection’ of Pat Hickey’s story on Theo Fleury
…that is very unfortunate to Me, as it was I that originally proposed to Mike Boone and Dave Stubbs to initiate a separate and specific feature in HIO named Habs’ Prospects or Habs’ Future, and it was I that specifically recommended Robert Rice to write it, as Robert Rice, IMO at the time, was one of HIO’s more level-headed contributors with an interest like My own in those prospects burgeoning within Our system
…since the 1950s, growing-up as a Montreal Canadiens’ Fan and ever since, I have had to scour the fine print of obscure newspaper and hockey journals for any insight of the new-blood knocking on the door to make Our Montreal Canadiens …such information apparently below the standards of the motley media that covered Our Habs
…I felt it was also an element missing in HIO at the time, which as usual seemed to editorially indicate the only things worth talking ‘Habs’ were happening at the NHL level
…my proposal to Boone & Stubbs was that Rice be given a daily-blog page similar to Boone’s, but Rice’s blog-theme be restricted only to Our prospects and their development within the different levels in Europe, University, Juniors and the AHL …in fact, I asked Boone to consider providing Robert a retainer or expense budget to cover the Hamilton Bulldogs, and local junior teams within driving range of His home-base in Ontario
…obviously, not all of My proposal was accepted, but at least We were given the privilege of reading Robert’s Habs’ Future on a once-a-week basis which many of You have indicated You also valued and enjoyed …I took some satisfaction in this because I long ago noted to Boone that a Habs Future within HIO and a spotlight on Habs’ prospects would be a well-received value-added content for HIO resulting in the extra Gawd-all-mighty ‘hits’ he lusted for
…on more than one occasion, I noted to Boone especially that Robert put-in a lot of time into aggregating this information for HIO, gratis …I suggested to Boone some compensation be given or arranged through The Gazette for Robert …even if it were simply a media press-pass and/or transportation (fuel) costs to attend Bulldogs’ and local junior games etc., …to interview certain prospects and provide first-hand game reports
…so, not surprisingly, I am very disappointed to hear Robert will no longer contribute to Our interest in Our prospects
…If Robert keeps to His convictions, which I respect, and this is the end of His version of Habs’ Future, I hope Boone, Stubbs and senior management of The Gazette and HIO will continue Habs’ Future in a some similar form, written by someOne I hope is close to Robert’s thoughtfulness, passion and abilities
Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
You might enjoy this then : http://habsandhockey.blogspot.com/
Maybe Markov sometime?
“For I will go through the land of Egypt on that night, and will smite all the first-born in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the Gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the LORD.” Exodus 12:12
“We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin
This was tweeted this morning.
Due to suspended schedules for the various leagues during the Holidays, #Habs Future will have a 1-week break following Monday’s edition.
Mr. Bad Example!
another idea, those fake sumo wrestler suits.
Come For Hockey, Stay For Weird.
Boone…contact Pleks immediately and have him invent and market the “TurtlePlek” it would be a tight , slightly thicker neck guard like band to the turtleneck with a kevlar layer for laceration….I would be the first customer
Dont waste that idea on pleks, do it yourself, its gold!
Don’t these already exist?
Pleks (or his agent): I’m already making 6 millions a year with sales of my TurtlePleks, and you’re giving me what?
PG: OK just 100K more than Gomez then, you’re happy?
Pleks: Plus a % of loyalties from TurtlePleks with the Habs logos on it.
PG: Eller you want to wear #14?
You got to love this place the discussions on here are over the top. If most are going to point the finger at equipment could someone find me the stats on players who wear mouth guards that get concussions and one’s who don’t wear mouth guards and have concussions.. This would be a good starting point in the matter.
Should be as mandatory as a helmet IMO…. read my link below re the U of T guys theory on how a neck guard could also help to prevent concussion…..
Surely a combination of his idea, a mouthguard and perhaps a helemt that has a (reebok pump like air cushion to absorb the blow) would all help, along with uniform boards with more give, ( I also agree on larger rinks and would wager that more space equals more time to react which should reduce direct impacts),I also agree with the softer pads…not necessarily just for concussions but other injruies and stingers as well. I really like the neck guard thing because it could also prevent potential life threatening lacerations.
This problem is getting very serious …and maybe Pleks knows something we don’t because his turtleneck would probably help at least a little if the U of T guys is right.
From the article:
“No study that mouth guards prevent concussions has been done,” said Dr. Cantu. “But they do prevent injuries to the teeth so I would recommend all collision-sports players wear mouth guards.”
“If you’re talking about a study that has looked at one thousand kids with mouth guards and one thousand kids without mouth guards, well, that study hasn’t been done.”
That’s from 2009, but another more recent article also claims that scientific proof has not been done yet.
If I play I would wear one though. More for the tooth. Unless you wear it like Patrick Kane.
I know about what Dr. Cantu said in 2009… My point is look at the players who have concussions now and did they have a mouth guard in? … It should be a mandatory piece of equipment for kids now and do a 2 year study and see what goes on… I always had a mouth guard playing football and played university ball and knock on wood never had a concussion. I think having one in play does reduce the risk and a study should be going on now.
Agreed. That’s why they should do a study now to add one more variable, one less unknown to the current concussion research.
Gentlemen, thaw your chickens.
Maybe everyone is right and all these changes need to be applied. Softer pads, larger rinks, etc….. Sure it would cost money but if its considered as an investment to protect the product on the ice, then maybe its in their best interest to do so.
“When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro”, Hunter S. Thompson.
Read this guys potential solution……I just emailed him wondering about a prototype for my boys.
I think the obvious solution is to make the skates a lot heavier.
That’ll slow the game down.
Yes, but increasing their mass will also impact the force at which they hit, since:
also could impact momentum (p):
so if the additional mass slows down the players velocity or acceleration enough, it may help. If not, all we have is a slower game.
heh, i almost started answering this seriously.
Like Demers calling out Marty McSorley’s illegal stick, I can see an opposing team’s coach will ask that a certain fast skating player to take off his skates to be weighted by the referees. 2 minutes for over weight skates.
Also bring back hooking and clutching, do not allow players to train during off seasons and no nutritionists. (sorry BioSteels) =P
now you’re on the trolley
Adopt the Olympic sized rink to accommodate the higher paced pace of the game and we will see a drastic decline in head injuries..
I am willing to bet the KHL does not have a such a high rate of injuries of this nature simply because there is more room out there..
Players are bigger/faster…The equipment has such a low percentage of impact on the head injuries..The players nowadays have zero reaction time, anymore since clutching/grabbing have been taken out of the game…
Players have a free pass into the zone at 80 MPH..
I agree with the trying to speed up the game, but its like putting race cars into a demolition derby…
Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?
Re: The articles above on concussions and the discussions below.
I 100% agree that the equipment is a major problem in this. Not only is the intial impact of the hit more forceful, it is then more likely to stun someone having them fall defenselessly to the ice for another impact on the head. Equipment has to be changed from a weapon, back to protection.
I don’t think that players are getting more concussions today than they were 4 or 5 years ago, I strongly believe that because of the increasing medical awareness of the seriousness of a concussion, they are being more carefully diagnosed. It used to be that unless a player was knocked out for a substantial period of time, the word concussion was not even mentioned, now players are suffering impacts to the head and continuing to play looking unfazed, symptoms coming later are being looked at differently and with more caution than in the past. Since the Sid situation, I think everyone agrees that the main reason that he was sidelined for so long was due to the Steckle hit, but if he had stopped playing for a period of time and not put himself in a position to be hit by Hedman ( which everyone probably agrees did not lok like a serious head hit), he wouldn’t have missed 11 months.
Now when players are suffering “concussion like symptoms “, they are proceding on the side of caution and taking time of to be sure. In the recent past this was not the case. The Sid situation has shown that if you suffer a head injury, you do not put yourself at risk to suffer another one until you are sure you are 100% healthy.
“They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
I have to admit it:
“if you think those shells are hard, I suggest you never consider a career in porn. ”
is the best thing I’ve read on H I/O.
I never said I was getting hit in the head you moron, I said I spent time in. the gym.
Just curious, what do you guys think of durabilty of composite sticks vs. wood?
I’ve never seen so many broken sticks since the beginning of the Pernell Karl era. I’d suggest a new era of 100% recycled plastic sticks. Manufactured by the SureWood Corp.
The Canadiens will have to be disciplined by whom?
Also, I post on my phone and can’t reply, so no I’m not desperate for attention. And Hobie, when shoulder caps are made of brass you can argue that point. Until then, your point is moot.
Also, boxing gloves are designed to protect the hand of the guy punching. Just because the glove is bigger than a fist doesn’t mean the whole glove area contacts the face, they have done tests that prove you punch just as hard with a glove as you do without. But keep assuming my years spent in a boxing gym haven’t taught me anything…
Years in a a boxing gym, eh? This is all starting to make sense.
Ladies and gentlemen, I offer you proof that repeatedly gettin’ hit in the head will scramble your brain and decrease your level of rational thought.
The level on which you’re all missing the point is outstanding. Here we go.
Pillow vs. Brick: ridiculous statement, a fair comparison to what Im saying would a pillow stuffed with 100 feathers vs. a pillow stuffed with 300 feathers. Pillow and brick are apples and oranges.
Tom, if you think those shells are hard, I suggest you never consider career in porn. You can bend them with your hands. If you guys had your way the equipment wouldn’t offer an ounce of protection. A softer pad doesn’t change a thing when an elbow comes in full speed. It’s like asking would you rather get run over by a Civic or a Corolla? Whatever, Im done arguing with people who dont know what theyre talking about and can only repeat what theyve heard elsewhere. Equipment was much harder back in the day when they used only plastics and no foam. my hardest pads were the oldest ones Ive owned. but lets not let fact get in the way of a growing mob…
Seriously, are you drunk?
Hey, it’s gotta be 5 o’clock somewhere.
maybe it’s 4:20?
Hope has two beautiful daughters. Their names are anger and courage; anger at the way things are, and courage to see that they do not remain the way they are.
— Augustine of Hippo
Okay, I know I should stay out of this but I’ll take a crack at it. At the risk of giving away my age, I remember playing with thin foam pads strapped to my elbows. I also remember when they fell apart and I got a good deal on a pair of Easton moulded plastic elbow pads. They offered waaaaaay more protection for my elbows but I was very aware that I could now probably kill a guy if I had to with these things.
Now I failed physics too Pickle, but if I’m going to take an elbow to my jaw I’d prefer the old CCM foamies to the Easton body armour. Not even close.
That’s because just like you, the guy wearing the “CCM foamies” is also aware of the pain he’ll get by hitting another player hard.
It’s like if all of a sudden the league bans helmets, how do you think the players will play like? Hell even Greg McTavish can make a come back.
Geez, those Dave Bolland comments are absolutely priceless. As a Habs fan living in Vancouver, I would have to say those comments are pretty spot-on. Just try being a fan of another team in this town; they’ll go out of their way to kick you when you’re down (ex: losing in a shootout to the lowly Blue Jackets, which the Canucks went on to do themselves a week later). They are worse than Bruins fans.
“Power plays are an important part of the game and I don’t want him to go on the ice and be stupid. But if they have problems, there’s one way to fix it.”
-Guy Carbonneau in reference to the on-ice feud between S. Kostitsyn and Grabovski
On TSN990 before, Randy Tiemen had his daughter on the air. She and a few friends were at a bar/resto in Ottawa and the Bruins came in after the game.
She said the guys seemed nice, and Chara went over to where she was sitting and chatted her up. She told him she is a Habs’ fan and he told her “Let me buy you a drink, you’re a Montreal fan, you need it”.
Could you imagine her calling home, “Dad I met this great guy! His name’s Brad…….Brad Marchand”
Nice article by Stu Hackel. It’s amazing how many times it was “player A is concussed, the result of a hit by player B, who also is/has been sidelined with a concussion”. Unbelievable!
Despite what everyone thinks of him, I’ve heard that Chara is a gent.
He has a kids’ charity, and is a good guy.
Sat next to Halak’s g/f at a game a few years back, and she showed me a photo of the two of them together. Couldn’t say enough nice things about him.
I can see that. Hate to play against him, tho.
—Hope Springs Eternal—
Was Halak’s gf pretty ?
Yes. Not a knockdown stunner, but pretty.
Philthy always plays well against us, we need to bring our best nonight for sure. Any word if Emelin will draw in against a more ‘robust’ squad? (should I even bother asking)
Emmy’s in apparently.
– Honestly yours
Tom, if you think those shells are hard, I suggest you never consider
Yeah, you clearly missed the point on that one.
He’s obviously a few bricks short of a pillow.
Yeah… I almost hit the jar of peanut butter with that one.
Definitely apples and oranges, unless…
F=Ma Force equal Mass X acceleration.
Getting hit by a brick or a pillow with EQUAL mass will have the same force applied on you.
Now getting hit by a brick or a NORMAL pillow, you are just experiencing the difference forces due to their differences in their mass.
So if a 220lbs (I’ll let someone convert that to mass) player come hit you at a certain accelerated speed, he’ll hit you at the same force regardless if it’s his armor or his bare shoulder with some cushions. But the increase pain he’ll feel may make him think twice about hitting as hard.
you can hit someone with a pound of snow or a pound of ice. the force that the person feels is different in the two cases because the snow absorbs the collision but the ice does not.
the issue of padding is how much impact can it absorb vs. transfer.
Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.
But the snow has no follow through, it disintegrates. The kinetic energy is redirected into all directions.
A player does not disintegrate after he hits you.
no but a helmet can use a crumple zone to disintegrate. that is how cars aborb impact. if a hard surface shoulder pad sits on a foam spring like a mattreess, the spring can absorb the energy.
the energy from the collision needs to be partially dissipated by the combined padding on the two players involved in the collision. if a pad is tight fitting it does not absorb any energy.
You’ve obviously never played hockey with me!
Any player who hits me disintegrates!!!
(swings spiked club and gets it tangled in curtains, takes fifteen minutes to untangle club and try to make curtains hang in a way that wife won’t notice damage)
Exactly. But how big, or rather, thick the equipment will need to be to create enough crumple zone to dissipate injury inducing impacts?
The majority of legal hits are not that threatening anyway, and if more players are like Emelin who knows how to hit hard, with good timing, in a non dangerous way, we would not be talking about this.
Yeah that was my point, It was poorly made and I accept it was a weak analogy without further explaining the physics.
My point was Pickle doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
True, but the question becomes absorption of impact energy. 100 lbs of feathers are going to compress, collapse and dissipate force. A 100 lb brick will not.
All we’ve discussed so far is theoretical in an ideal environment.
Let get back to hockey. A player’s absorption of impact does not become equivalent to a pillow once he wears softer pads. He is still constituted of the same bone-ligaments-skin structure. Once the padding, whether it’s beneath a armor, or above his bare shoulder, absorbed the maximum by being fully compressed, it’ll become a hard material again.
But the pain, plus the fear of pain, by wearing thinner pads, will incite players to hit less hard.
If I punched you in the face with Brass knuckles, sorry for being rude, I would shatter your jaw and give u a serious concussion.
If I punched you at the same speed without Brass Knuckles I’d hopefully stun you but wouldn’t break your jaw or give u a concussion.
Same theory for hard and soft shoulder pads…
I vote Picklebrain to be the subject of your experiment.
Brass knuckle has less area as your fist, so the force of impact is increased over a smaller point of impact.
Although it does says that your skin and ligaments absorbed part of the impact that metal does not, the fist is also absorbing the brass knuckle sitting on the same skin and ligaments.
You’re out to lunch slugger.
There is more energy in the collisions due to higher speeds, quicker acceleration and greater mass. There is less impact absorbtion due to harder boards and more rigid, better fitting padding.
The league cannot legislate away the speed and mass. They can legislate away unneccessary and wreckless collisions. They make the boards more energy absorbant and design padding to be defensive instead of offensive. Perhaps there is some helmet technology that might provide incremental protection.
I am assuming that as marquis players are shelved, ownership will be forced to act to protect their investments. When teams lose their top players, they feel it in the pocketbook.
Pains me to admit this, but Cherry, yes Don Cherry has been preaching this for years and he is right. The equipment is PART of the problem
So I’ve been on here for quite sometime and don’t post too often but I do have a quick question for y’all if thats alright. I’m considering cancelling my satellite as its costing me an arm and a leg and I can pretty much watch anything I want online now anyways…except Habs games. My only concern about cancelling is losing RDS and not being able to watch all of the games. I’m wondering if any of you watch regularly online and if so could you provide me with some reliable links?
Go Habs Go
Not sure if any of the illegal links are completely reliable or in HD?
I cancelled my cable and now and now pay $8.00 a month for Netflix and $19.99 a month for NHL Gamcenter and get every Habs game in better HD than RDS.
So I went from paying $100 a month for cable to $30.00 over the net…
Thanks Hobie, I’m looking to do pretty much exactly that. In fact I’m looking into different options for my home phone as well (need it as I work from home) a la vonage or something. No need to have a $230.00 so called bundle special every month when there are other options out there. Thanks again Jan 1 bye bye satellite
I think Bell and Rogers are going to learn over the next couple years they don’t have us by the b*&ls anymore for our programming
Living here in Alberta, I don’t get home until after the first period is over. Right now with the PVR and cable RDS feed, I can record the game and watch it in its entirety. Is there a record option on Gamecenter? Or, is there an easy way for a technologically challenged 49-year-old to set up the computer to record the gamecentre feed (Main desktop computer is a MAC)?
Losing RDS will hurt. I can’t imagine going from that to watching online. I remember when I was with Cogeco instead of Bell and I couldn’t get RDS, I was watching online. Drove me nuts to the point that I shelled out an extra $50 a month for Centre Ice. Before I knew it I was up at 1:30 am watching Avs/Ducks games just because it was on. Anyway, if you must, this is a decent place to start:
Agreed it will be tough, and its pretty much the only thing that has stopped me from cancelling up to now I just simply don’t want that monthly bill anymore since there are other options now.
I was also told you can get a boxee box from best buy and hook it to your tv so you can watch Netflix and shows through your internet on your tv, not an IT guy though so please don’t take my word for it.
Habitoba, you are aware that all equipment worn by NHLers is available for retail, correct? The only thing they are getting customized are team colours and sizes. They aren’t wearing mystical equipment unavailable to us mortals, every piece of equipment I own can be found on NHLers and was not purchased at Canadian Tire nor Sportchek.
Why do you keep going to the top of the page to reply? Are you desperate for attention?
Is it just me, or is Bolland a First-Class Grade 1 A-hole?
If I’m a ‘Nuck he doesn’t leave the ice without missing a few teeth. Hope the ‘Nucks steamroll them.
On the one hand I agree with you.
However it’s nice to hear players take verbal shots rather than listen to the scripted BS .
If a Habs player was on the radio and the interviewer posed questions about certain Bruin players wouldn’t you prefer to hear some trash?
Actually, I’d rather players stick to talking about their own team and their personal performances. Agreeing with calling the Sedins “sisters” and then repeating it shows all the class of an alley rat.
One more thing- didn’t Jason Blake when he played for the Leafs get roughed-up in a game by a player he was slagging in an interview prior to that game?
Don’t follow the Laffs at all, so I don’t know. Anyone else have any idea?
Still waiting for some examples. Also, you are aware that boxing gloves are in no way meant to lessen the impact on the face or body of the guy getting punched, right? Same principle as the hockey pads, they don’t affect the person receiving the impact, it’s the force generated by the fist/shoulder that can cause injury
Just as shoulder pads aren’t designed to lessen impact on the person being hit. You’re talking out of your rear end.
Bauer, Reebok, CCM. Every hockey equipment manufacturer makes hard shell shoulder pads. EVERY SINGLE ONE. You have no idea what you’re talking about here.
Somebody ban this guy for being stupid….
Obviously the force of impact no matter the surrounding material is the direct cause of the injury. What most people realize is that softer equipment may lessen the severity of said impact given the exact same force.
If I hit you with a brick at 20 mph and then hit you with a pillow at 20mph, i would expect different results.
You’re not getting any examples, it’s just common sense.
If you get hit with a pillow that has the same mass as the brick, the force of impact will be the same.
True, but the pillow would have to be much bigger than the brick in order to have the same mass; the impact would be spread out over a much broader area, and thus cause less trauma.
But if the surface of point of impact is the same, i.e. your head, and not over your whole body, the result is the same regardless the size of the hitter.
Next he’s going to tell us smoking is good for you?
Yep, and then ask for examples of someone dying after finishing the cig.
somehow I posted the same thing twice, this is me editing my 2nd.
In the 80’s and early 90’s I never suffered any concussions that I was aware of (from hockey). It wasn’t until they new style gear came out that concussions become more frequent. I’ve had over 9 now and five years after my last one I am finally seeing an improvement.
Ph- 204 724 8418
My shoulder pads(when I wore them), were the thinnest, softest pieces of equipment you could get your hands on.
Old Cooper set, tiny.
Mine, too. Barely cover my shoulders. My elbow pads are hard, but I do NOT ever hit anyone with them. In my beer league, contact is allowed (jostling for the puck, that kind of thing). We all have to work the next day, so care and respect for each other is mutual.
I’m happy for you that you’ve found a league like that. They aren’t easy to come by if you want a decent compete level without idiots.
Every team where I am seems to have a couple of guys who have no regard for goalies and really don’t care where their sticks go.
Boxing gloves do absorb (compression of the cotton) some of the force and they also distribute the force over a larger area. A bare knuckle is much worse than a 10 oz glove.
Anyways, I’m not sure you know what you’re talking about…
So,was reading a statistic that said 1in6 are victims of sexual assault .Outragious numbers and I dare say every family has some form of dealings with.My heart goes to the victims “any victim really”and being it is a very sensitive issue I feel every one should respect the fact that this is a very heavy blow to be delt to anyone and should be treated very gently .The amount of live’s destroyed or damaged by this very issue prove’s our species is not very far removed from the caves we cralled out of and shows us all another example of the trouble we can stop but carry out anyway’s with out a care of the consequences .All I will say is if we allow all this raping to victimize our people and our planet for much longer which is so anti life and if we care to remain indifferent to it’s effects ,it’s a waste of our existence and shame that we are stuck in DARK AGES!
As a matter of fact yes I have shopped for equipment, quite recently in fact. I would love some examples of these hard shell shoulder pads causing all these injuries.
Pucker up, yes Ive seen it, I put it on every week. Your 220lb smashing me in the face would hurt me regardless of what he’s wearing, that’s my whole point. And to your point about increasing chance of injury to reduce the force with which elbows are thrown, are you suggesting they remove elbow pads altogether
This is like the boxing gloves argument. People tend to think that because boxers often wear 12 ounce gloves, that the impact is much softer in nature than it really is. They forget that boxers have a full inch of tape wound as tightly as possible around each hand.
A soft cover is often stitched over a hard plastic shell, and yes, retailers carrying shoulder pads are at about 5 to 1 in ratio for hard plastic shells on the shoulder pads to soft shell shoulder pads.
Have you stopped to think that maybe a pro sports team doesn’t buy from Canadian Tire or Sport Check like you? They go to the source (not Source for Sports either) and they can basically custom-make whatever the teams wants or needs. we just buy off the rack stuff from them. Also, there’s a difference between a 220 lbs man hurting you and injuring you. I think that’s the whole debate here. A punch in the face with a regular fist hurts. Add a roll of quarters in there and you’ve got a broken jaw. Same shit, different pile.
“Your 220lb smashing me in the face would hurt me regardless of what he’s wearing”
Dude, that’s like saying being punched in the face with brass knuckles does no more damage than a regular punch.
Over the last 20 years the shoulder and elbow pads have gotten completely ridiculous. case closed.
I’m not suggesting that you remove the pads, Picklebrain. But protective equipment should be just that: for protection. Not for use as an offensive weapon. Back before the armour that they wear now, if you threw an elbow too hard, there was always the chance that you would hurt yourself, and not just your opponent, so the force of the impact was lighter.
Now players don’t have to worry about that. When was the last time that you heard of a player going on the IR for throwing an elbow instead of receiving one?
Shanahan is having zero impact on preventing concussions. The game is no longer entertaining to me when the best players are sidelined with concussions. The league has to make the game safe.
I would love to know what percentage of people calling for changes to equipment actually put the stuff on. The shoulder pads being produced today are most certainly not dangerous. The shoulder caps are soft, you can bend them with your hands. Not to mention a lot of the players are still using that first pair of free shoulders they got in Junior. The elbows are a little harder, but we aren’t talking steel here. The damage comes from the force behind the elbow, not the hardness of the pad. I could wrap my elbow in cotton balls and it would still concuss a guy. Players are getting concussed at the same rate they always have been, they just aren’t as scared of admitting to them anymore, simple as that.
Seriously? Ever shopped for hockey equipment. There are SOME brands of shoulder pads that have soft shells on the shoulders, but certainly not all of them have this feature. In fact, the large majority are a hard shell. And without regulations imposed by leagues on what kind of protective equipment can and cannot be used, people will continue to purchase the hard shell pads which do happen to overwhelm the alternative stock in retail stores.
You’re kidding, right? Have you seen the armor that these guys wear? If you don’t believe that the pads are dangerous, I propose an experiment: we’ll suit up a 220lb guy and smash you in the face.
And the force behind an elbow would be reduced if there was a greater chance that a player could be hurt from throwing one.
I haven’t worn some of the newest stuff but did repeatedly slam the hard shoulder cap against my head. I can’t remember if it hurt or not.
Off to the “quiet room” for you. Dr Recchi will see you soon.
Chrisadiens and HabFan10912, one of the few father son tandems on HIO.
Why haven’t these equipment companies looked into a Kevlar and foam padding? A closed cell foam, for example, would absorb shock and deal far less damage while a kevlar binding and cover would prevent any skates from cutting a player. Just an idea…..
It is not the equipment that is doing the damage directly … it is the security that the equipment allows that indirectly is doing the damage. Guys are so well protected with the equipment in today’s game they go “full speed” 100 % to the max at all times causing the high speed collisions and injuries.
Very good point. You look at the shifts now compared to 20 years ago, 45 seconds max, skating as fast as possible hitting anything that moves.
Did not see the Sens / Bruins last night was Thomas that awsome or were they ALL from outside 47 saves WOW
Rest of the month Flyers, Devils, Bruins, Blackhawks, Jet, Senators, Lightning and Panthers Not a soft team in the bunch.
Arguable the two softest Devils and Lightning but they have Brodeur and Lecavalier, St-louis will be back and you know
They always play Montreal tough
to paraphrase Nixon: If the Bruins do it, it is not illegal
I saw about 1/2 the game, and the shots looked like the usual mix: there were a few ‘cant miss’ chances that players flubbed, some shots from the side wall with no hope, and the regular stuff. There was just more of it than usual.
Team 990 reports diaz out sick.
Emelin poisoned him….
I can see him opening his skull signet ring and pouring white powder into Diaz’s water-bottle.
“In Mother Russia, water drinks YOU.”
LOL, you’re killin me today.
Nice, Emelin after hockey will play a Bond Villain.
Any word yet on a suspension for McQuaid’s knee on Foligno? A similar knee by an Avalanche player last week got him a 4-game suspension. I’m curious to see if Ol’ Shanny will become a little more consistent in his decisions.
With Chara out likely nothing.
Status Quo for the entitled goons!
The fix is in!
What does the Commissioner of the NHL do?
In short, a league commissioner is the action man for the Board of Governors.
They tell him what they want done and he works to make it happen through his subordinates while making sure that individual franchises play by the rules.
******** Translated if you haven’t won the Stanley Cup in 40 years your NHL team is becoming irrelevant in a sports mad city long behind MLB, NFL and NBA teams, you just tell the commissioner(who you gave a new contract at 7 plus million per) to make it happen and the rules are bent sufficiently to action the command.
Shanny is very consistent. He is consistently not suspending the bruins players. He is also consistently a crook.
That was a little different, but starting now, what Mcquaid did will get a suspension.
Mcquaid is a bruin, so i do not anticipate a suspension obviously, because we all know bruins dont get suspended. Apparently there’s an unwritten rule about that…
Also, the fact that foligno (he and mcquaid are good friends) said he hopes that mcquaid DOESNT get suspended, probably doesnt help the chances of shanahan giving a suspension, even though he should for the sake of consistency.
HBO’s 24/7 is truly a stunning show. I don’t think anybody else captures the drama of sports like they do.
On that note, I hope next year’s winter classic involves either a Canadian team or Minnesota. You know, where people ACTUALLY play pond hockey.
The winter classic will not feature a Canadian team because the ratings (such as they are) . So the winter classic is for the American teams and up here we get the Heritage Game.
As for seeing Minnesota no ratings
I doubt you’ll ever see a Canadian team featured in 24/7 but if you ever do, I doubt it will be the Habs. In order to appear on that show, a team must grant the HBO crew the kind of unfettered access that people like Pierre Gauthier would never tolerate. He’s far too private in his dealings to ever let a camera crew follow him around.
I live in Vancouver and here the local all-sports radio station has Canucks GM Mike Gillis on the air on a weekly basis for an interview. When was the last time PG granted a certain amount of time per week to talk to the media? If he could, he’d never even have his picture taken, let alone talk to anyone.
And why would HBO have any interest in showing us a day in the life of Jacques Martin? What are they going to show? Images of JM eating dry toast and black coffee for breakfast while figuring out a plausible excuse for leaving Emelin in the press box?
Do you really, really,really want to listen to PG for an hour a week? I mean, why?
Is it to give you a better insight on PG or wouldn’t he just shovel the pablum from one week to the next?
While an all canadian matchup wont happen (saved for heritage classic as you said), I think we’ll see a Canadian team or Minnesota sooner rather than later, though I understand the marketing angle doesn’t help the chances.
I could see them doing a NY NYI game or Boston NY game next year, or maybe even a Philly Pitt game (though unlikely next year as it would be PHI and Pitt’s 3rdl), but at some point they have to branch out from the the Atlantic division area geographicly. As it stands, 4 of the 5 Classics have been from there.
I thought what was particularly revealing last year was what a whiny, foul-mouthed referee-baiter Crosby is(was)
Yah but here in Canada we have TSN’s tremendous “Oil Change”
Not to be confused with “Rotate the Tires”. That reality show of auto mechanics…
I thought “Rotate The Tires” was about which Leafs goalie prospect was going to be the next league superstar
It’s rainy and crappy today, I hope you’re all dry and happy.
Lots of people are talking about hard equipment being responsible for concussions, which I have absolutely no argument with, but I’d be curious to know how many concussions are actually from the equipment, and how many are from players falling into the boards or smacking their heads off the ice.
In other words, I think the hard equipment is partially to blame, but I think there are other elements involved too (which support my hopes of increasing the ice surface — I know, I know, it “can’t be done”, but we can all have our wish-list, can’t we?)
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think Gionta wears leather pads. That didn’t seem to help Reimer. The hard pads aren’t all to blame but I think they are a main contributor.
Correct me if I’m wrong but goalies’ headgear does not provide optimum protection in collisions
No, the backs are pretty thin, it seems. Didn’t a goalie get concussed not too long ago from falling backward and dinging his head off the ice?
That’s a good point.
I say everyone starts wearing Nerf of foam padding. At least on the upper body area. ;P
That would be awesome, but it would slow the game down. Too much giggling!
maybe the game could lose a couple of Ks PH if it means saving a few concussions. Equipment is getting harder and guys are getting faster, there’s no big equation to solve in order to see the result of those two elements put together.
take a look at a familiar discussion from approx. 4 years ago
Do you think this pertains to the current team?
Contrary to the article, I’d say this edition of the team has *no* fourth line…notwithstanding the offensive outburst vs the Isles the other night.
I think it speaks to the fact line combo’s will always be a point for discussion and debate- times haven’t changed.
Same subject different characters. I was also getting nostalgic- AK-Pleks-Kovy, Saku, SK with promise, Markov, Streit etc.
And the Flower calling spade a spade
I didnt know letang was out with a concussion form the Patches hit.
Yeah and they sent him back on the ice on the same game.
What ever happened to being sent to the “quiet room” if you take a hit to the head?
Thought same thing, I suspect that has gone the way of the Dodo bird.
They sent him there, and after they sent him on the ice.
What it tells me is that the quiet room does not work at it’s intended purpose.
Wow, I was unaware of that.
Somebody has to inform them first. If a player justs keeps quiet and keeps his head down, no one can see the symptoms. In the same way, if the coaches keep watching the play on the ice they can’t see the symptoms. Do the trainers ask “Are you okay?” or “Are you having a headache?”. Does the trainer stand behind the player (out of sight) when asking the question or make direct eye contact? You will get a more complete, detailed answer almost every time when you ask a question making direct eye contact with the other person than standing behind them. In the same way, ask a non-specific question, get a vague answer. Ask a more detailed question, get a more detailed answer.
The symptoms showed up 24 hours later. This is not uncommon, Both times Crosby’s symptoms showed up later
Maybe they have hired Dr. Recchi as a concussion consultant. Seems a lot of that is going on (see NFL).
Boston won last year. They rolled 4 lines constantly all last year. They didn”t have a whole lot of players in the top scoring. They have our old coach who would have been fired had they lost to the Habs in the that 7th game. Now he’s a genius. They play playoff hockey most of the season. Are they going to attract free agents with a tax base like Quebec has. Let’s be realistic.
I have absolutely zero idea as to what you’re trying to imply.
I totally agree, or disagree, depending on what you mean.
They also had lights-out goaltending and Vancouver team that totally caved.
Ah, Joe, we hardly knew ye.
Is there any official, or even unofficial word on why Diaz is MIA? Minor injury? Had than been reported?
Could it be because a trade is imminent? Or that he’s being sent down to Hammy?
To make room for Emelin I guess
but why is he not at practice – 2 days in a row?
oh, i have no idea.
There are unconfirmed rumblings that Diaz has a minor injury.
Emelin is a mandatory requirement given tonight’s opponent
He’s not playing tonight, Emelin is in.
Emelin knows people who know people who took Diaz for a little stroll along the St Laurent river.
I’ll just articulate what you’re all thinking… lacking the guts to actually sit the players who are unproductive, they have started sabotaging them. injuring them … Gomez, Gionta. Moen, Diaz… thus letting all our other young hopefuls play…
Maybe he forgot to RSVP?
Price is a on a pace to play 71 games this season.
Good thing they signed Budaj to give Carey some relief.
Still, you have to imagine if Peter had started more games, the Habs record would be worse.
Moen and Diaz not practicing.
They have attained perfection it sounds like.
Moen’s hurt, Diaz I don’t know.
Also I’d say Moen is playing the best hockey of his carreer this year, so maybe he is as close to perfection as he can get.
Some people are saying Diaz has a minor injury (unconfirmed).
Some people and Them, two groups I have a hard time believing.
Twitter is saying Emelin in for Diaz.
Yay for Twitter. That is good news. Perhaps the rotation we have been speaking of for months here, may come to fruition.
Can that Twitter guy coach Habs?
We talkin’ about practice?!
Wasn’t that a great interview, oh that makes me chuckle Chris.
So I’m in an office pool, just for Habs’ games, we have to choose win or loss.
It’s pretty straightforward, except you get bonus points for correct predictions in a row.
I’m currently at three in a row but really can’t decide on tonight’s game….
What do you guys think? A Habs’ WIN or LOSS ??????????
Guy Latendresse out with concussion syndromes.
It is amazing how routine these announcements of concussions have become. I don’t like to admit it, but I almost react to hearing about these the same way as if High Ankle Sprain.
I am in no way trivializing concussions, but the commonality of them is so commonplace that I fear the NHL will treat them the same as a high ankle sprain. It is just another injury to them. I wish and hope I am wrong.
Actually, they are upper body injuries.
But yea, there is definately nonchalance towards concussion at the League and team level.
I would disagree on the whole, but have to say the leagues stubborn refusal to change from the hard elbow and shoulder pads boggles my mind
And look at the Penguins, with Crosb and Letang….
I dunno its so hard to tell. Look at Perron, came back in the same game and scored just like Letang, but then was out for 100 games. With these things its really hard to tell. But also, if its so hard its better to err on the side of caution.
We’re doing better than other leagues though I think.
I think its more that they are getting diagnosed more often and players are speaking up to the docs themselves about symptoms instead of ignoring them and chalking it up to getting their “bell rung” since its much more serious than playing through an injury to the body.
I think the number of concussions is the same, but more are being identified. But its definitely bad optics for the league.
I am sure more are being identified, but it is my opinion that each year as the players get faster and stronger with the ready for war body armour the numbers are indeed going up.
yea i know my fantasy team keeps taking injuries n disappointments so far.
Dr. Tator the concussion guru yesterday referred to the term “concussion-like symptoms” as a sham.
He sys either your concussed or not.
That is such a good point Strummer, it’s like half pregnant. Dr. Tator is correct. Clearly he has had counsel with Dr. Recchi.
Exactly. If you get hit in the head and have headaches, dizziness, etc.., then you have concussion. No DDx required.
Did he get clipped by the Costco box of Pop Tarts falling out of his cupboard?
LOOOOOOOL – Funniest comment of the day. Hands DOWN!
Hahahaha! I can’t stop laughing. Awesome Matty.
Haha… spit my coffee out the nose.
All excellent responses.
kostitsyn plekanec cammalleri
paccioretty eller cole
moen* desharnais leblanc
darche nokelainen blunden
i dont think we need diaz or weber anymore. trade weber for a pick not no ahl player..
new look pp unit;
pp1 cole plekanec paccioretty
pp2 kostitsyn eller cammalleri
not sure just put the star beside his name
Ah, I see.
Is Eller really getting second line wingers? Awesome
Edit : oh that’s only what you propose for a lineup…. too bad
the more icetime Eller gets the better he becomes. and imagine if he starts playin with guy like maxpac and cole. the points will come!
i don’t know why they keep comparing Carey Price to God………i mean he’s good, but he’s no Carey Price.
You sure you don’t have Eller and Desharnais mixed up?
eller is by far way better then desharnais.. n eller plays well with 3rd liners, imagine what he would do with our second line
If you knew me you’d know that I don’t disagree with that one bit. But I have my doubts that Martin will put Eller with Cole and Pacioretty, if he did, he may end up with an elite line.
yea martin doesnt know what he is doing anymore, all he does he look up to the rafters when they get scored against n talks to himself… still cant believe he’s not fired. 100 percent he’s gone by summer but still, i want to watch playoff hockey and with him behind the bench for this season we might not be there this spring
It’s a tough one.
I tend to agree with you about Eller Tom.
But DD has 18 points, second most assists on the team, hasn’t even played 80 reg season NHL games yet. What does the guy have to do to prove himself?
Neither of them were suppose to have to play 2C. Gomez is suppose to be bouncing back right now. Arghh! OK, ok. I’m calm.
“December 15, 2011 at 10:41 am You sure you don’t have Eller and Desharnais mixed up?”
No Tom that’s JM’s job
I think it’s only his proposed lineup.
not required here, come on Steve you know that.
Sources and facts are demonstrably optional.
I hope that you are wrong about the lineup, Hopefully Coach Martin will do his homework and use his players based on their performance, instead of their ages, or salaries.
Losing Moen will hurt, he has been terrific in 5-5 situations defensively, and (slightly) better than average offensively.
When it comes to penalty killing Moen , has been significantly below average. Opponents have scored 6 PP goals in the 64 minutes that Moen has been on the ice 4 vs 5.
For comparison , Plek has been on the ice for 80 minutes when 4 vs 5 and has seen the opposition score the same number (6) PP goals.
In 61 minutes of 4 vs 5 ice time the opponents have scored but 2 PP goals while Gionta is on the PK unit.
Nokkilainen, Darche, and Cammaleri all have had better results on the PK unit so far this season than has Moen.
Its hard to understand why Nokkilainen has only been utilized for 31 minutes when shorthanded. There has only been one PP GOAL scored aganst us when he`s been on the PK unit.
Fire the coach # 3 now posted on You Tube:
Feel free to comment.
Qlik View – Data Discovery.
Every team needs it- Every coach needs it.
Every fan needs it!
Sorry, Reposted because I was late to the party : /
From Bill’s post below:
“You cannot deny that this is a team that struggles to score despite having solid offensive players”
This has been the case for as long as I can remember though. Montreal has always struggled to score in recent memory. Each time the Habs would get a player with a proven scoring track record, they would not reach their same numbers in Montreal (Recchi perfect example). I asked a few days ago if anyone could name a player in recent memory that came to Montreal after having some consistent numbers elsewhere, and matched their output in Montreal (or God forbid even scored more points) and they only name that was mentioned was Kovalev and that came with a ? after it.
So was Carbonneau’s system killing the offence of the team? Was Julians? Therrien? Vigneault’s??
Think of players who have all been accused of under performing in Montreal: Cammallerri, Gomez, Gionta, Kostitsyn (at times), Koivu (later years), Leclair, Samsonov, Tanguay, Ryder, Tod Ewen, Audette… I know there are more but I’m struggling here….
So a couple points on this:
1. There are always going to be players who under achieve, on any given team any given year. Maybe they are just having a bad season, maybe they are injured/tired, maybe they have a drug or alcohol problem, maybe they are fighting with their wives, gf’s, mothers, maybe the’re struggling with the fact that they are gay, and yes maybe they don’t like the coach or ‘system’, but no it’s not always the coach and ‘system’ and no the answer is not always to change the coach. Changing the coaches from Demers to Trembley to Vigneault to Therrien to Julien to Gainey to Carbonneau to Martin have not helped this team win another cup.
2. Maybe we need to look at other reasons than coaching/system as to why seemingly talented and capable offensive players so often struggle to score in Montreal. Is it the constant press scrums, cameras & microphones stuffed in their faces? Is it the fact that those cameras and microphones are often negative or knee jerk or overly personal? Is it the constant bashing they take from the fans when they are not producing to their ‘potential’ or the team is not producing to it’s ‘potential’? Is it the fact that every move they make inside or outside of the game is picked apart and dragged through cyber space, lunch rooms and bars all across the country and beyond? Is it just coincidence? Is it that all the Habs recent coaches have had poor systems which stifle the creativity of the players?
Or maybe it’s just that fans will never be happy until the 4′th win in the 4′th series of the playoffs and then for a couple/few days they will be happy until they start worrying about who is gonna be signed to what contract for the start of next season.
Somewhere along the line, the Habs became a pedestrian team, not just in terms of talent but also in style. I have not too jokingly said that Gretzy never would have made the Habs because they’d be waiting for him to learn to backcheck.
:D! The day after the Cup win there will be moaning on these pages about cap hits and the like.
As long as I can remember, we have rolled four lines. This tends to distribute points more evenly and does not add up to large offensive numbers. That being said, we haven’t exactly iced an offensive juggernaut or had really talented goal scorer since Stephan Richer. It comes from drafting in the middle of the pack year after year.
Kovaloaf? Yeah right.
We lead the league in scoring under carbo.
That was exciting and helped to rekindle my interest. I thought they were getting back to Habs hockey. And then, for whatever reason, it all fell apart.
Me too. That team had plecs, ak47, gorges, Markov and price, who, with huet made a great 1/1a goaltending tandem. Winning teams need that, see the two cup finalists last year.
Gotta wonder how adding players with success like: Cammi, gionta, Gomez, et al and the continued development of the aforementioned guys has us regressing.
In 07/08 they finished second in the league in goals per game (3.13)
His previous season they were tied with Atlanta for 15’th (2.92) and his last season (partial) they finished 12 (2.95)
Granted that is better production then other years, especially his middle year. That year Kovalev & Plekanec both took off, and Mark Striet finished 3’rd on the team in points with 62…
Idle – We like to talk about our “solid offensive players” but for the most part none of them are +30 goal scorers (Cammy being the one exception). The players’ historical averages are:
Cole = 25-30 (when not injured)
Gionta = 25-30 + one elite year (2005-06)
Cammalleri = 20-26 + two elite years of 34 and 39 goals
Plekanec = 20-25
AK 46 = 20-25
MaxPac = insufficient data due to age, 25 being a realistic objective
Basically, the Habs are a team that scores by committee. I think that was part of Gainey’s plan when he constructed his 2nd five year plan. The only question is will the players mentioned be able to hit their seasonal norms.
Maybe it has to be by committee with this team. If any player was expected to carry a large load of the offense it could get pretty hairy for him.
As someone pointed out below, Carbo’s teams didn’t exactly struggle to score, certainly not in comparison to Martin’s. As for the coaches before Carbo, many of them actually had poor teams to work with. No question that the immediate drop-off in scoring coincides with the arrival of Martin, and consider that Martin had three new proven scorers to work with in Gionta, Gomez, and Cammalleri! Carbo did what he did with, like, Kovalev.
I can’t swallow the “pressure” argument you make. Cameras and microphones and scrutiny? Look at other sports leagues: scrutiny and pressure are part of the equation. I would compare the Habs to the Yankees in terms of how closely fans and media follow them: according to your theory, the Yankees would have a hard time creating offense.
Full Breezer 4 Life
Those were questions not theories. I’m only saying we might need to look at other reasons why players seem to under achieve offensively in Montreal.
and as long as that number doesn’t change this team won’t be run by people who know how to win cups, not just regular season games.
We have the highest attendance record in the NHL (Chicago counts a fair number of SRO fans).
Truth be told, we’re no different than MLSE. Making money, which means making the playoffs at all costs, is what it’s all about.
That may, or may not, be one of the main reasons we have been (and continue to be) a middle of the pack bubble team.
yup, except brian burke has improved that team while we’ve gone from first place in the East (a year where pretty much everything went right) to now a consistent playoff bubble team thats riding on the coat tails (i think im misspelling that) of a playoff run where we were carried by a goalie who played out of his mind and cammalleri’s big-game scoring ability.
While no denying the Leafs are better this year than recent past models, I will wait and see if they make the playoffs before I start praising Burke for his rebuild. That teams leaders Kessel, Connolly will be interesting to watch when the team gets its first losing streak.
File in the Very Questionable Officiating case evidence folder:
(from Elliotte Friedman’s 30 Thoughts)
17. Kevin Bieksa said he went to referee Kevin Pollock on Saturday night, asking him to watch Chris Neil. The Canucks defenceman claimed Pollock told him “they were good friends and he knows him well and he won’t cross the line.” Had a good debate with the NHL about this. I wanted Pollock’s reaction, but a couple of league officials said no because “what is said on the ice should stay on the ice.” So, I went to a few “independents.” Most of them agreed with the league.
How about it NHL? No fighting, just hockey?
Alex Burrows’ appropriate outing of Stephane Auger will continue to do damage to them in the future. Until a new guard of NHL on ice officials are rushed into the league in all likelihood.
Refs take care of their own, and publically embarrassing them is the quickest way to turn the entire lot against your organization.
Don’t the referees still answer to Colin Campbell? It starts at the top, Sh*t runs downhill.
They aren’t accountable to anyone as a group, and if they share the same attitude towards a player or team, they’re doomed.
I agree with all you are saying, but do you know if indeed Colin is still technically the Boss for officials? I thought he still was.
“what is said on the ice should stay on the ice.”
What the hell does that even mean? No it should *not* stay on the ice. If the refs are being unprofessional then they should be held accountable.
What kind of bush league is this?
Bettman saw the slogan used by Vegas and thought it would be good to use a variation of the slogan in Hockey.
We got a small issue, to get Emelin into the lineup you probably going to have to split the Gorges-PK unit
I wouldn’t mind putting PK on a second D line, he’s playing too many minutes.
There are other options, sending Gill to the pressbox for example. Yes, JM will not do it but for me it would be the best option.
LOL, We have the 2nd best pk in the league, we are now missing Moen and Gionta would play on the pk, and you want to sit our best pk player vs the top pp team in the league………
Maybe because that´s his only strength? I also think that the left D is a liability with Kaberle and Gill and I´d like to add that Gill is overrated when being down one man. He´s fantastic 3-5 but that´s it. When Gill missed five games in november the Habs were perfect on the PK, too. So much for your ridiculous lol…
You may be surprised to learn that Hal Gill is NOT our most effective Penalty killer this season . He is certainly above average, though.
So far the best short handed performer (among the defenceman) is none other than ………………………………………..
He has been on the ice for 25 minutes of short handed action, and during that time only one PP goal has been scored against us.
Gill averages one goal against per 17 minutes while short handed.
Georges and Subban, approximately the same at 14.5.
Team average is 15.25 minutes of ice time per PP GA.
Watch the Fire the Coach series of videos on you tube;
As for Forwards, Gionta is by far the best this year allowing only 2 goals in 60 plus minutes of shorthanded action. Nokkilainen is doing great and so is Darche. Moen is WELL below average on the PK unit so far this season at 10 minutes per PP GA.
team average is 15.25 minutes per pp goal allowed.
http://youtu.be/upyWvwYJnb4 Fire the coach!
Problem with your pairings is that there is no way that Gill can play top 4 minutes or handle the match ups any more. Plus PK-Gorges are not only effectively shutting down opposing teams best forwards, they are creating the most offense of any d pairing by a long shot! 3+ GF/60min vs. less than 2 GF/60min for every other dman.
So, another solution:
Keeps the top 2 together for big minutes, including the toughest match ups. Emelin can play on the left for the next few difficult games (Philly, Boston, Chicago) and work on his right side positioning in practice. Kaberle plays on the right with Gill – minimal even strength minutes.
PK-Kabs on PP1
Emelin-Campoli on PP2
Gill-Gorges on PK1
Emelin-PK on PK2
unlike Emelin, Kaberle can’t play the right side at all.
well, he’d only have to do so for about 8 minutes, against their 3rd and 4th line.
habs03 – Like it or not, we have no choice but to play Subban a ton. If you also factor in the need for Gill on the PK, then it stands to reason that Gill can’t play top pairing minutes.
PK = top unit + PP
Gorges = top unit + PK
Gill = 2nd unit + rookie partner + PK
Kaberle = 3rd unit + PP
Diaz/Emelin = 2nd or 3rd unit with experienced partner
Campoli – the jury is still out
Weber = pressbox spare, no 4th line duty
I’m OK with guys calling each other all kinds of things. But I don’t get how it’s acceptable in the 21st Century to criticize a guy by comparing him to a woman. It’s ridiculous, pathetic little boy stuff, no better than nailing a “no girls allowed” sign across the door of your clubhouse. I wasn’t a fan of Pleks’ “little girl” comment, I’m even less a fan of the bozos who parrot that statement. I am also not a fan of the whole “sisters” thing, whether applied to the Sedins or the Kostitsyns. And it comes out every time someone suggests a rule change that might cut back on some of the senseless brain damage occurring on the ice every week: some arse will suggest that everyone should play ringette or women’s soccer.
It’s ridiculous. I wonder whether those hypocrites cheered the Olympic women when they won their gold. Probably.
I am not sure what HIO was hoping to accomplish by linking to that article. But all it did accomplish was pander to HIOs lowest common denominator.
Since when have we progressed as a nation? We voted in Stephen Harper for God’s Sake! Get with the times at least. The reality is we are going back in time to the 50’s where conservative ideals ran the world.
Whether or not I agree with your despisment of Harper, what was the unemployment level in the 50’s? What kind of deficits were any of the Gov’ts running in those days?
and civil liberty?
Some people (women and minority groups just to name a couple) might argue that there are things other than the economic state of the country that contribute to quality of life.
The Montreal Canadiens: sporting the best AND worst fans since 1909!
Try and stay on topic nuna. The subject is demeaning and childish statements.
Oh, never mind.
Why is the CBC constantly shoving Cherry and Kevin O’leary in my face? These 2 are very popular because I believe english canadians wish they could talk like that, I think theres a lot of closet rednecks in Canada.
[Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.
It’s a lot easier for him to call them girls than it is for him to say that they’re babies I guess.
His comments stem from them refusing to play in the NHL unless drafted to the same team and them being notorious for pouting when they haven’t been on the same line.
But I agree with your opinion. I don’t find women’s hockey more entertaining than men’s, but the women by large majority play harder. So it isn’t an intelligent remark on Bolland’s part.
Oh stop being such a (deleted), for crying out loud. Wah wah wah.
I’ll stop being a chick if you stop being a childish (deleted)
Thank you, mod.
Perhaps next time, delete his “chick” reference, too? Or is that somehow less offensive than calling a spade a spade?
people need to relax and stop getting offended about things that are true. men and women are different, get over it.
do i think i could play against any professional women hockey player and win? not even close. They’d school me up and down the ice. But to try and deny that mens hockey is more physical is ridiculous.
Reread my post, Ali. Do I at any point suggest that men’s hockey is less or more physical? My issue is with those who call another man a “woman”, or a “little girl” etc., as an insult. It’s just as bad as calling someone a “fag”. THAT has to stop too.
I full aknowledge (and very much appreciate) the difference between men and women. I just think it’s prehistoric to call someone a woman as an insult.
Or is this too fecking GRITTY a room for this sensibility?
i understand, i just dont see why saying, hey if you dont like playing physical go play in a girls league is so insulting.
Doesn’t mean women are lesser than men, just different.
Calling someone a homophobic slur is different IMO
It isn’t really.
And if you don’t see why “go play with girls” isn’t insulting to girls, than I can’t help you (have you ever even seen them play SOCCER? They’re bloody vicious- a friend of mine who played college soccer needed surgery and spent six months in a cast from a dirty tackle).
Michael Farber on the subject of tanking and the ‘Suck for Luck’ and ‘Fail for Nail’ movements.
I for one am ecstatic that Mr. Farber is healthy and writing his column again. Loved his stuff in the Gazette, and appreciate the fact that way more people have an opportunity to read his stuff now.
Aww media is butthurt because PG would allow anyone from the team, scouts, coaches etc to speak to them. IMO one of the best things PG has done, let them worry about doing their job and not worry about what the media. IMO PG couldn’t care less about the media to the point that if there was ever a guy to hire an English only speaking coach, he would be the one to do it.
The Habs presently are in 9th place, one point out of a playoff spot. I think a realistic objective would see us in the 8th position by the Christmas break. Having said that, tonight’s game looks like it’s going to be a real uphill battle.
The Flyers’ record so far this year is pretty impressive. They are are presently on a six game winning streak which has them in a tie for the conference lead with Boston. They have won 19 out of 29 games while we sit at 13 out of 31. Their road record is 11-4 (1st in the NHL) while we are playing .500 hockey on home ice. They also have a goal differential of +24 while we sit at -1. The Flyers goal total of 106 is tops in the league.
We have three main players out of the line-up due to injury. However, I think it’s fair to say that having Pronger on the sidelines is equal to the Habs missing Markov while Giroux and Schenn’s absence is more than equal to any possible efforts of Gionta and Gomez.
I guess the one ray of hope tonight might be in net. I’ll still take Price over anyone the Flyers choose to start. Of course that’s basically what our team is these days, Carey Price against the world.
BTW, the game is on TSN’s full network tonight.
And, keep in mind, holmgren blew up his team in the off season. An impressive job of rebuilding on the fly.
Twice he’s done a flip in one season. Although the last one was more impressive, since they went from last to a playoff team.
World Junior Championships and Concussions in the news.
I can remember watching Shane Corson play for team Canada – so that goes back to around 1985.
I remember how Canada played back then.
We were on the International Ice and it took everything we had to compete.
Sure we had talent – but the game was open and the skilled players had the time and space they needed to play the game.
Then Canada began hosting the event regularly, and the WJC was now being played on “our ice” – a HUGE ADVANTAGE!!
Not only did the Europeans and Russians have trouble adapting to the smaller ice, the Canadians began to “BUILD” their team around that smaller ice, home ice advantage.
So to make team Canada, it was no longer the best and most talented Canadian Junior players.
To make team Canada, many (not all) of the forwards and almost all of the d-men needed to play “Canadian Hockey”.
It was Dion Phaneuf’s time to shine!!
“finish every hit” – sometimes 2, or 3 seconds after the puck was long gone
“hit like you mean it” – high hits, shoulders and elbows to the heads, crushing hits that often left Canada’s opponents shaking and needing assistance to stumble off the ice.
If you wanted to play for Canada, you needed to play “on the edge” hockey.
And the “on the edge” hockey worked!!
Did it ever!!
Canada rattled off Gold medal after Gold medal, 4, 5 in a row, and we Canadians were SO PROUD!!!
I watched each and every one of these tournaments.
I would like to know – looking back – how many of those Europeans and Russians suffered concussions during the WJC??
Even the Canadians who were leaping off the ice to finish their hits to the head must have been suffering concussions that were never discussed publicly.
The hits to the head, the blind side hits, the ones against the glass where the checker leaves his feet,
this became the “SIGNATURE” of the Canadian Junior team in the WJC.
Habs hockey is “smart” hockey – we play 5 man defence, not just 2 – we move up the ice as a 5 man unit, we back check with 5.
Ed you’re absolutely right.
The ‘stupid’ in hockey is almost entirely a Canadian contribution, as exemplified by “good Canadian kid” Dave Bolland, or by the national embarrassment that is HNIC.
Good post. It’s a bizarre tournament. I’m glad it’s going to be in Russia next year. I agree with your overall argument.
Without trying to undermine your post at all, I seem to remember Corson putting a Russian player over the boards into the bench during the tournament. Fans and scouts took note. And we could go back to Clarke in 72. The violent and jingoistic aspect of Canadian hockey is not new.
So true Ed, of course if Don Cherry read your post, he would read this as a compliment.
Vignault’s comments on the Bolland interview:
““Such a classy organization as Chicago, I’m sure they’re not too happy about that. I’m sure the NHL is not too happy about that. We’re not talking about a junior league here or a bush league. We’re talking about the National Hockey League, …”
Alain, you lost me. The NHL is nothing if not a bush league.
The local all-sports radio station here in Vancouver ran a poll yesterday regarding the Bolland incident and about half of the respondants said that they’d rather have Bolland on their team than the Sedins.
Even Canucks fans have come to realize that they’ll never win a Cup with these creampuffs, no matter how many Art Ross trophies they win.
If the NHL ever decides to get their heads out of their asses and get serious about concussions then a number of things should happen.
1. Get rid of the plastic elbow and shoulder pads. Being hit by the older style pads not only takes some of the impact away from the hit, it only hurts a little (hehe, I love a good hit).
2. Unfortunately for owners/season ticket holders, the ice surface needs to be bigger.
3. Players need to stop hitting other players in vulnerable positions.
4. Players being hit need to learn to stop turning away from the hits, and get their body on the boards.
5. Get rid of the instigator rule.
6. Have me in charge of suspensions and not some guy who was just as bad as the players he’s suspending. Shanahan and his little band will always have favorites. Common nature to look after those you like.
Life after the infantry has been great to me.
My little business went corporate. My sales teams across the country is doing a terrific job. I am down to 232 (from 250 in Jan) and hopefully by this time next year I will be at my combat/fighting weight of 185. I run 3.2, three times a week, and 5.1 two times. No headaches, no nausea, no dizzy spells, no depression, and lots of love int he family.
Being a civilian rocks, I love my life again. There is life after head injuries. I’m living proof!
Now if the Habs can beat the Flyers tonight, all will be gravy here.
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# 1 is a no-brainer. It boggles the mind to see that the NHL ans NHLPA have done NOTHING to make the equipment safer.
#4 goes right back to PeeWee hockey and for the last 15? years, its all about learning to cycle the puck, and the only way to cycle the puck is to protect it against the boards by turning your body away from the boards.
Time’s up, JM must go!
I agree with most of what you say but #5??? So your solution to avoid concussion is to have people punching each other on the head??? Really???
No. However player would think twice before hitting someone dirty, knowing they will get the living crap beat out of them.
I know when I played I was always aware of which player did what on a team.
That’s what number 5 means.
Great to hear about the fitness regime working out, man, that and the business!
What do you think of the idea of putting discipline in the hands of the players, instead of the league? The idea is that there would be a committee of three former players hired by the players assoc that would recommend action to the league. As it stands the league-employed disciplinarian is too easily influenced by the owners and GMs.
I’d rather 3 former refs with no connections to the players. No favourites that way. Campbell was a goon and Shamahan was a goal scorer with an edge. Both are terrible at handing out discipline, especially with Shamahan’s bogus explanations.
Watch McQuaid walk away with a fine at most.
We have three former players now on the committee. Shanahan, Larry Murphy, and Stéphane Quintal. I don’t like the job they are doing and it sounds like the players don’t like their work either.
What I do like is listening to Kerry Fraser. He seems to nail each and every situation and knows exactly what must be done.
Great news, Shane! It’s nice to hear that everything’s progressing well for you.
Merry Christmas to you and the family.
With all the concussions, the silly Sedin sisters taunt is just a joke. Toughen up boys. Elbows and sticks may make you sick but names will never hurt you.
The only answer to the rash of concussions, besides making the equipment better is to outlaw contact sports totally which would probably make the sob sisters like that sissy Justin Trudeau (Who does he think he is, by the way? D’Artagnan? A rock star? Le petit prince? Une petite pièce de merde?) and his ilk happy but as Adam Corolla jokes, In 50 Years We’ll All Be Chicks.
What does this post even mean? What are you bitching about now? More misogynistic crap.
Not a fan of his political party, but I’ve known Justin for a while now and he is NOT a sissy. At any rate, he never struck me as a wuss when it comes to contact sports. But sure, go ahead, call people you don’t know “pieces of s***” from behind the safety of your keyboard.
It’s alright for him though, n’est-ce pas? Hey, fire with fire. One of the troubles with the modern “liberal”? He likes to dish it out but can’t take it. Wah wah wah. His dad rammed things through parliament and now they don’t like Mr. Harper doing the same thing. Remember the flag debate? War Measures Act? Majorities rule. Get used to it. It’s going to last a long, long time if Justine is any indication of “liberal” hopes.
Where to begin? Your witty translation doesn’t work, you took an English expression that doesn’t mean anything in French.
Mr. Bolland’s taunt is symptomatic of the mindset of current NHL thinking that is exemplified by Don Cherry and Mike Milbury and Jack Edwards. Based on his skillset he should not even play in the NHL. Only the ridiculous misapplication of the rules that prevails, and the flawed notion that toughness sells better than talent, that goalmouth scrambles are the way to sell the game instead of dazzling stickhandling and tic-tac-toe passing, allow him to be on the same ice as the Sedins.
Justin Trudeau is a great guy, who actually shows curiosity and is open to learning and displays a sense of wonder about the world. How you dragged him into your unhinged diatribe says much more about you than about him.
Wah wah wah. MAJORITY! Hurts eh?
I hate the secrecy and believe that the lack of communications extends to internal player matters, which may account for certain frustrations we see from time to time.
However, to call the Markov situation would be CIA, FBI, MI5 defcon4 level insanity. It’s one thing not to let media and fans know his return, but the organization clearly had no idea how long Markov would be on the shelf. Of they had, he (like Pronger) would have been on IR to save cap space – as he was last year.
That Markov wasn’t on IR speaks volumes about PG’s expectations when he announced Markov’s 3-year deal after a press conference.
McQuaid will get a suspension, Shanahan will finally suspend a Bruin because McQuaid isn’t a key member of that team. He will use this as a smokescreen, as if to say “See I can suspend Bruins”.
Of course the suspension won’t kick in until Chara is back playing, as they won’t want the Bruins to be missing a Dman.
I’m prepared so as not to be surprised. I’ve been burned before.
Mr. McQuaid has already spoken up and said that he’s “not that kind of guy”, so he’s taken his lessons from Andrew F. Ference, who used that defence to escape punishment after giving Montreal fans the finger last year.
Regarding the “Sedin Sisters” taunt: Hockey players are not generally known for their intellect. In many cases, you could spend an afternoon in deeper conversation with a group of basset hounds. But I’ll never understand the “Sisters” taunt in this day and age. You’ve got two of the best players in the NHL, a pair of guys who have put up as many points each as just about anybody in the league. Yet people still use epithets that weren’t funny 40 years ago?
“Oh, the Sedins can’t score unless they are together!” Except Henrik showed that he actually can not only continue to perform, he can step up his all around game and capture the Hart Trophy in the process.
“Oh, the Sedins can’t score in the playoffs!” Henrik Sedin has 46 points and Daniel Sedin has 44 points in 47 games over the last 3 playoff years. So yes, the Sedins actually do score in the playoffs. They just didn’t score against the Boston Bruins, but then again, neither did anybody else. Throw Tim Thomas into the mix, and you’ve got a recipe for disaster.
“The Sedins are cry-babies always looking at the referees!” Yep, and they should have been. The nonsense they were putting up with after ever whistle was so blatant that every Habs fan would have been ready to revolt if the Sedins were Plekanec and Cammalleri. I’m not saying we didn’t see a lot of the same nonsense in Habs games, but the level to which it was taken against the Sedins was shameful. I remember watching one series of faceoffs where both Henrik and Daniel got the back of their legs slashed hard on every draw by the opposing player…after a few games of that, I’m not sure that anybody is going to be particularly productive.
“The Sedins would only play with each other!” Except that they have never actually said this. They played together in MoDo as juniors, but that isn’t uncommon. When the NHL draft came around, Brian Burke moved mountains to get into a position to draft both Sedins. This was a marketing move by the Canucks, not a demand by the Sedins. Of COURSE they said it would be great to play together…they are brothers. The Habs drafted Sergei and Andrei Kostitsyn. We had Patrick and Stephan Lebeau in the organization together. The Habs were desperately interested in Mikko Koivu in his draft year but got beat to the punch by Minnesota.
There isn’t an NHL team that DOESN’T look at trying to draft brothers…it is a nice “storyline” that the PR guys love. This isn’t the Sedins’ fault that they play together and, if you don’t have your head buried up your rear end, it is pretty hard to dispute the results. The Sedins have formed a formidable line in Vancouver with whoever plays with them, controlling the puck for long stretches and drawing extra attention regarding coaching matchups. This gives the rest of the players on that team some time and space, and Vancouver led the league in both offence and defence last season. Take away repeated Roberto Luongo meltdowns in the playoffs last season and they are probably sporting a Stanley Cup this season.
“The Sedins are divers!” Alright, you’ve got me on that one.
I would have been ecstatic if the Sedins had allowed themselves to be on the open market in 2009 and the Habs had ended up with them instead of Gomez, Gionta and Cammalleri. The team would have close to $6 million in cap space and would have gotten more points out of the Sedins than they did out of the high-priced trio that we ended up with in Montreal.
In last years playoffs though -I dont know about other years- they usually tallied points MOSTLY on powerplays. They werent a threat at even strength. And you know me, thats how I measure a players worth.
The score at the end of the game isn’t determined by even-strength goals. I agree that 5-on-5 play is important, but who was drawing all those penalties? I think you will find the Sedins (along with Kesler) played a big role in drawing penalties for the Canucks lethal power play to go to work.
The thing I notice with the Sedins most games is that they are cycling in the offensive zone. That means the defence is getting worn out chasing them and your teammates, especially your defencemen, are usually conserving energy. That often pays off in the long run, and the Canucks had an enviable season that was diminished by a poor performance in their first Stanley Cup finals where they were manhandled by a very physical Bruins team that had imposed its will on most of its competition in the playoffs.
You almost nailed the landing. If the Sedins dive, it’s because the refs refuse to give them 10 other calls immediately before. Those guys play hard and honourably, and get hacked and slashed all game with way too few calls. If the refs would call all the obstruction and cheap attempts to intimidate, they wouldn’t have to make it painfully obvious to them that they were just tripped, hooked, crosschecked…
The NHL doesn’t have a diving problem, it has a Bruins and thugs and ‘checking forwards’ problem. If the refs call the infractions and allowed the Sedins to play at full throttle, we’d see the return of the 60 goal scorer and every team would have 100 point players. Diving would disappear. The League would just then have to use video review, as they had stated they would, to identify the embellishers and fine and shame them after the game, to tie up the loose ends.
it won’t be easy tonight – Hope they can pull it off
Always a good game against the Flyers, save for the few blowouts either way. With the Habs stepping up, a win is in sight.
Fleury ‘s calling for Hickey to get fire
Both parties should just keep quiet and let it die down.
A lot of people read his opinion. If I were in business I’d give him a raise.
A lot of people read his opinion and interpreted it the wrong way.
I’m fine with it (Hickey’s story, it’s just a story) and could care less about Fleury’s story. A millionaire hockey player who goes broke and falls into an addiction.
What I care about is why the monster was allowed out of jail, and able to leave the country to do what he does best. That ****** should have gotten at least 10 years, and then monitored for life.
I talk to my boy about Fleury and this James monster, I tell Matthew (son) exactly what people are capable of, and if it ever happens to him, run to me, and we’ll sort it out (and not in a fun way). I didn’t get to where I was by being nice on the battlefield.
With that many unproven rookies, the Habs won’t be a .500 team.
We’re barely .500 now. At least we would have upside under that scenario.
Outside plecs and perhaps gorges, our veterans are on the down sides of their careers. That’s not a supposition, it’s a fact – cammi, gio, gomez, gill, kaberle and, yes, even Cole.
The upside rests in patches, PK, price (I regard him as more than “adequate”, contrary to your comment earlier this am).
They need to be our core in 3 years leading the prospects coming through the system now and key vets picked up when we’re closing in on the Cup.
Did he really blame the victim here? I better read the story again. All I saw was that Pat asked a question.
Oh look another click on that story
I’ll read it again later.
Hickey didn’t blame the victim. That’s a generalization that’s been spouted by knee-jerk reactionists who didn’t take the time to properly read Hickey’s column.
This team will be better than .500 this season, and by a good margin. This “leave it to the kids” to get the Habs to the next level is laughable. All Cup winners are a blend of youth and vets.
And Price is ordinary this season. The win against the Islanders the other night was one of the first this season where Price had a bad game but his counterpart had a worse one.
This combination of youth and vets ain’t winning the cup. And, cup winners normally have impressive tending. If Price is as underwhelming as you fear, then we need an upgrade there too…
“If we deal the vets i proposed, we create cap space to sign OTHER types of vets(bigger, grittier) who will blend with price, pk, gorges, cole, pleks, subban, DD and eller”
The UFA route to find those gritty scoring players will be nigh impossible. I am not suffering from short term thinking. I believe the team right now is better than it has shown. There is a lot of room for improvement on the Habs, sure, but that can be said for every team.
One of the reasons I believe the team can go farther than just making the playoffs have to do with the other teams losing their stars (like Crosby for Pitt and Giroux for Philly) to injuries. That, and the depth the Habs have on D. Sure, 3 are smurfs (1 is back in Hamilton now) but depth is depth. The other thing is the Habs do have good to great playoff performers and enough players with Cup rings to lead the way.
“guarantee”? That’s ambitious.
“drop us like a stone”? what, like the Stanley Cup champs did last year?
if Markov and Patches, plus Cole are all playing, it’s a different series against Boston.
Patience Anti JM. Patience.
Let’s talk in May.
Oh get over it. I’m talking a little trash. Every day, all year long, we conservatives take CBC’s, yours and Boone’s sucker punches and now your panties are all in a twist? Wah wah wah. MAJORITY! Get used to it!
That’s how I read the story as well.
I’m kind of silly that way though. I don’t get excited over others reactions (fans, media, Management, and team players). But I do laugh a lot at the results.
You’re so wrong, Chuck. So wrong.
I suspect that my description of TLF as a “childish (deleted)”, however accurate, was flagged because I called him a (deleted). Perhaps the word (deleted) was deleted by a bot.
At least, I hope that is what happened.
Saw a comment earlier opining that Canadian living was better in the 50’s. Perhaps the moderators agree and are simply attempting to encourage our regression by ushering in a new-old era of tolerance for the demeaning of women and minorities?
Patience: Evidence shows that it could have been a different series had the Coach been injured, or fired.
Fire the Coach – Video 3 in the series now available.
Qlik View – Data Discovery.
Every team needs it- Every coach needs it.
Every fan needs it!
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