Habs will play eight preseason games in 13 days; Kovalev criticizes Subban

The NHL released its complete preseason schedule on Tuesday with 105 games slated over a 15-day span, starting on Sunday, Sept. 21.

Preseason games will be played in a number of non-NHL cities, including Sylvan Lake, Alta.; Bridgeport, Conn.; Brooklyn, N.Y.; Colorado Springs; Kansas City; Las Vegas; London, Ont.; Quebec City; St. John’s, Nfld.; Saskatoon and Stockholm, Calif.

The Canadiens will be busy during the preseason, playing eight games over a 13-day span, starting with a Red vs. White scrimmate at the Bell Centre on Monday, Sept. 22 (time to be determined).

Here are the other games on the Habs’ preseason schedule:

Tuesday, Sept. 23: vs. Boston at Bell Centre, 7:30 p.m.
Thursday, Sept. 25: vs. Colorado at Bell Centre, 7:30 p.m.
Friday, Sept. 26: vs. Colorado at Quebec City’s Pepsi Colisee, 7 p.m.
Sunday, Sept. 28: vs. Washington at Bell Centre, 6 p.m.
Wednesday, Oct. 1: vs. Blackhawks in Chicago, 8:30 p.m.
Friday, Oct. 3: vs. Senators in Ottawa, 7:30 p.m.
Saturday, Oct. 4: vs. Ottawa at Bell Centre, 7 p.m.

The Canadiens will open the 2014-15 regular season on Wednesday, Oct. 8 in Toronto.

Meanwhile, former Canadien Alex Kovalev took a few shots at P.K. Subban and his eight-year, $72-million contract on Tuesday while he was in Montreal for a charity golf tournament.

“I’m not saying that he isn’t a good hockey player – he’s not the guy,” Kovalev told Philippe Lehoux of RDS. “He’s a risky defenceman and he’s a wide open defenceman. What I’m saying is that he can give up five goals and score five goals, and the score’s still going to be zero-zero.”

(Photo by Dario Ayala/The Gazette)

Former Hab Kovalev criticizes Subban, TSN.ca

NHL preseason begins Sunday, Sept. 21, NHL.com

Canadiens’ regular-season schedule

Top 10 Can’t Miss Games, canadiens.com

Marking the 20th anniversary of Habs trading captain Carbonneau, Stu on Sports blog



  1. The Juice says:

    Agree 100% Kooch

  2. shiram says:

    Roman Hamrlik is the 87th player with the most shots in the NHL.
    Thought that was an interesting stats.

    Though I guess it should be tempered that shots were not always counted in the history of the league.

    Scott Gomez is 158th.


  3. twilighthours says:

    It’s funny that I’m in the position of defending analytics. I don’t even really care much for or against them. I don’t do my own research. I don’t really post on EOTP (dissenting opinions get you attacked or banned on EOTP). But I also find it funny that people seem genuinely scared of them or angry about them. Stupid nerds!

    Good discussing with you krob and shiram. I have to go wipe my son’s beehind. I may be back, possibly after a long shower.

  4. DipsyDoodler says:

    My take on the Leafs’ stats guys.

    I think there’s a limit to what you can do even if you have great data. Not because stats “don’t work” but because there just aren’t that many ways you can build a team. Trades are almost non-existant. Free agency is also a minor contributor.

    Stats will help you decide who to sign or trade from your own team (e.g. Gorges), might also help you to pick up an under the radar free agent. The stats are probably unhelpful in drafting, which is the main way teams are built.

    My hope is that the stats guys make the Leafs a bit better, so that they don’t tank. That way they remain mired in mediocrity.



  5. Habitant in Surrey says:

    I just logged-in to see what the chatter is, and I read some conversation on Todd Bertuzzi.

    Since the Steve Moore episode, most perceive Bertuzzi as an ape on skates. Someone who is such a moral retrobate that he should have been banned from hockey.

    I can’t say that after that unthinking attack on Moore that I Myself felt he had crossed a line too far as well. But I would always come back to thinking of the ‘pre-Moore Bertuzzi’ and the ‘post-Moore Bertuzzi’.

    The pre-Moore Bertuzzi was a damn good hockey player, sort of a Milan Lucic of his day, whom would ride as a talented shot-gun power-forward with the brilliant Markus Naslund of the Canucks.

    Bertuzzi and Naslund were bread and butter friends on the ice as well as off the ice. His instinct for intervention for pay-back towards Moore that game was his own personal emotion over-riding common-sense more than it was ‘a call’ by Crawford for retribution.

    He was at times prickly with the press’ stupid questions I don’t think much different than Markov was/is in Montreal.

    He and Naslund were well-respected community-involved players here for the Canucks.

    Sometimes in Life, we make a singular bad emotional choice, and it haunts Us for the rest of Our Lives.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      That’s an admirable response Chris. Gotta admit that was some singular bad emotional choice though.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      I blame the NHL more than I blame anyone in this situation. There was no suspension on Moore which was insane. His hit was 100% a cheap shot on THE LEAGUES LEADING SCORER AT THE TIME and put him out with a concussion :

      Bertuzzi I think did lose his cool and had a brain cramp as he an Mats were really good friends.

      The League should have dealt with Moore appropriately for this hit. It doesn’t excuse what Bert did by any means but Moore took a cheap shot that put a star play our with a concussion and the league said it was just a hockey play.

      Pretty pathetic on the NHL’s part

  6. habstrinifan says:

    @Chris…. re your essay on the hiring of Kyle Dubas.

    An excellent piece of writing. Among the 5 best ever that I have read on HIO.

    “Protest Rogers blackout of Habs game…sign at:


  7. HabFab says:

    Some were asking for these dates

    Dave Stubbs – #Habs tickets on sale online:
    5- to 10-game pkgs at 10 am ET, Sept. 6.
    Individual games Sept. 13 at 12 pm ET.

  8. 2mins4lookinsooogood says:

    Regarding the resistance to advance statistics …

    For a certain quotient of fan, they will never accept that to win hockey games, you are better to have Raphael Diaz on your team than Doug Murray.

    It’s ok if you don’t want to believe it because it upsets your view of the need to drop’em and deliver justice, big hits that scare the bejaesus out of opponents, etc, but don’t criticize what you refuse to rationally evaluate.

    “Don’t crush that dwarf Alex Henry, hand me the pliers”

  9. haloracer18 says:

    The deal should be criticized. It means that he has to be over twice as good as Hedman this year to justify the extra salary. Hedman is likely going to be better than him. And for the next couple of seasons as well.

    The Subban for Yakupov and Nikitin deal makes sense, pull the trigger MB, do it, do it, do it… Beaulieu can definitely best Subbans 4 pp goals from last year. You have the possibilty of alsi adding a third top quality player for the second half with the extra cap space. That’s all good news for the habs – and the Oilers get their much needed number 1 D.

  10. HabinBurlington says:

    In the He Said / She Said civil suit, Sportsnet now says deal is complete with Moore and Bertuzzi/Canucks.

    • HabFab says:

      Mark Moore said earlier that his brother Steve has a hard time making decisions due to his brain injuries and Bertuzzi’s lawyers are just trying to pressure him.

      Can’t imagine all of this ruckus about a hockey play… Campbell WTF?

  11. DipsyDoodler says:

    I believe a can of Molson’s at the Bell Ctr is $11.



  12. shiram says:

    NHL announces changes to Draft Lottery format

    Under phase-in plan, odds will be adjusted to reflect increasing competitive balance in 2015; Lottery will be expanded to determine first three selections in 2016


    in 2016, the team with the lowest points total will be have at worst, the 4th overall pick, as the 1st, 2nd and third overall picks will all be up to a lottery.

  13. Chris says:

    Personally, I’m happy for Kyle Dubas and think it is rather pathetic how many articles I am seeing mock the Leafs while labeling Dubas as a “quant”. This basically demonstrates a complete lack of critical thinking ability or even a capability to do a basic level of research.

    Kyle Dubas has been around the game his whole life, starting as a 10-year old stickboy for his hometown Soo Greyhounds. His grandfather was the Greyhounds’ coach from 1962 to 1968, so he’s grown up in an environment where hockey and how it is coached was taken very seriously.

    He was hired as an agent while still enrolled in university, making him the youngest agent certified by the NHLPA. At 25, he became one of the youngest general managers in the history of the Ontario Hockey League. He showed that he was willing to go outside the box when he hired Sheldon Keefe as his coach and stuck with him through a rough first season. (Keefe has gone on to become a popular coach with his players.)

    Under his watch, the Greyhounds got better on the ice as evidenced by having 14 players drafted during his 3 year tenure as GM, and the team has put a huge emphasis on scholastic achievement by its players, something for which he should be commended given that the majority of those kids are going to end up working outside of hockey. The Greyhounds, always a franchise that has punched above its weight, are earning kudos for generating players with the kind of character that NHL coaches and GMs are looking for.

    Around the OHL, Dubas was seen as a bit of a wunderkind: he was well respected, and he is relentless in scouting players. Before he was hired as the Soo GM, he was a constant presence in the rinks, working his ass off to earn his career.

    The inane resistance to analytics is as stupid as it is tiresome. It is a tool in the toolbox, nothing more. Nobody is trying to insist that it be more. Nobody is insisting that NHL teams give up their scouting departments or that GMs run their teams via computer algorithm. The stupidity of such a thing is obvious to even the most die-hard “advanced stats” guru.

    So why do so many continue to trot out the same tired cliches to try to disparage the use of the tool? Is it some sort of inferiority complex based on an inability to process the information? I really don’t get the vitriol.

    In all fields of life, be it finance, education, health care and increasingly sports, there is a movement towards evidence-based decision making. There is no question that this can be taken too far, but the “gut instinct” decision making of the past was unquestionably flawed in any number of ways. Trying to support decisions with more evidence should be encouraged, not disparaged.

    Kyle Dubas has stated that he believes that analytics are increasingly important for running a hockey team. This is hardly controversial, as successful franchises such as the St. Louis Blues, Los Angeles Kings and Chicago Blackhawks have all established themselves at the forefront of that movement. But he has also stated that he did not run his team based on numbers alone, or even with numbers as a primary tool: scouting still trumps all, and he earned his chops in that regard, spending far more hours in rinks that the people mocking him these days.

    I commend the Leafs for thinking outside the box, taking a chance on somebody outside the usual establishment. So many people lambaste teams for hiring re-tread coaches and general managers, but then turn around and scorch them for hiring nobodies. I guess it is proof positive that in a world where nothing else is certain, you can always count on the internet cranks getting their backs up about whatever decision you make.

    • shiram says:

      It would not be laughed at if it were not the Leafs.

      That said, I’m annoyed at what Shanahan is doing, the Leafs might end up a competitive in the East in a couple years under him.

      • Chris says:

        I’m not so sure of that. There is a pretty hefty resistance to “stats guys” in hockey circles, so it has been kept pretty hush-hush. I’ve mentioned before that one of my closest friends grew up with a guy who has served as both an assistant coach in the NHL and a head coach in the OHL. He mentioned that the numbers that we see on the NHL.com website represent the very basic nuts and bolts of the numbers that every team he has ever worked with actually tracks.

        Basically, the amazing thing isn’t that teams are hiring “stats guys”. It is that people are surprised about that. Hockey has been increasingly moving in that direction since the late 1970’s, when Roger Neilson brought video coaching into the NHL in a big way. With teams focusing on looking at every play in detail, they started to collect data that would help describe what they were seeing. That data is getting increasingly complex, so it is only sensible to start hiring people who get some training in how to deal with it (especially to avoid inferring too much from that data!).

        • HabinBurlington says:

          The only mainstream outcry in T.O. as far as I have seen has been from Simmons who has changed his story a fair bit recently.

          The Globe and The Star have been praising the moves I thought.

          • Chris says:

            I’ve been seeing articles on some of the hockey sites. Some people praising the moves, but also a lot of people mocking them.

          • frontenac1 says:

            There’s all kinds of shitty sites out there Chris. This is best site for for Habs fans. No doubt. Saludos!

        • shiram says:

          Well sure, but it if were another team, it would make less noise, is what I was getting at.

          • Chris says:

            Agreed, as it relates to this site. I’m just disappointed in how many Leafs fans (I know a lot of them) are disappointed in the hire.

            Dubas is a hockey man, and he is one that is climbing the ranks very quickly. He is most certainly not “just a quant”.

          • shiram says:

            Heh are those Leafs fans still pining for truculence and intangibles?

    • twilighthours says:

      It’s unlikely that any of these new hires will be solving 2nd order differential equations, anyway. Cal need not worry.

    • krob1000 says:

      “The inane resistance to analytics is as stupid as it is tiresome. It is a tool in the toolbox, nothing more. Nobody is trying to insist that it be more. Nobody is insisting that NHL teams give up their scouting departments or that GMs run their teams via computer algorithm. The stupidity of such a thing is obvious to even the most die-hard “advanced stats” guru.”

      Chris…this is where you differ from many of the stats people….many people are not able to separate this tool from toolbox…they think it is multipurpose tool that does everything…this is the problem. YOu know as well as I do that there is no reasonable way to really quantify a game with as many variables as hockey in a perfect way…that being said tidbits of info can be gathered as they always have ben but even then they are as you say tools in a toolbox. Not everyone sees it that way though. I walso wouldn’t commend the Leafs for “thinking outside the box” as many teams have guys like this….these stats wil never be as good as baseball which is n inidivdually played team sport where percentages and probability are hugely meaningful. Basketball analytics track shooting tendencies and accuracy from certain spots, etc and these are an advantage to be sure…amy point out something you otherwise didn;t know …but ultimately your first paragraph I highlighted says it all…..but you aren’t the one doing all of the talking that is annnoying people.

      You and I differ on th is topic by very little….I just am not sure the work put in equals the output…..I still think that more meaningful results can be deduced if someone just creates a decsion making/execution/time model. That is the key….even then it will still be a tool but it would be the most effective tool possible. Possessing the puck isn’t as important as the decisions made with and without the puck.
      I view hockey as a high speed decision making contest wherby all are not created equal in ability to think or act…..it is a team contest where one decision affects another, affects another,etc,etc…..The game really quite simply is as I said …decsion making and execution.

      • Chris says:

        I think the Leafs went outside the box because they appointed a 28 year old with limited NHL experience to a relatively senior management position.

        We’ll see if it works out, but I give Shanahan props for at least having the guts to try it.

    • frontenac1 says:

      Yeah,just wait until he is found by the paper boy one morning,face down on the front lawn with his pants down around his ankles and…. wait a minute, scratch that.

      • krob1000 says:

        test hmmm…got a very basic post “awaiting moderation”..whatever that means…I read it over and there is nothing in it that should be flagged.

    • Bob_Sacamano says:

      “The inane resistance to analytics is as stupid as it is tiresome.”

      Thank you for that. I can only agree.

    • krob1000 says:


      August 20, 2014 at 2:58 pm
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.

      “The inane resistance to analytics is as stupid as it is tiresome. It is a tool in the toolbox, nothing more. Nobody is trying to insist that it be more. Nobody is insisting that NHL teams give up their scouting departments or that GMs run their teams via computer algorithm. The stupidity of such a thing is obvious to even the most die-hard “advanced stats” guru.”

      Chris…this is where you differ from many of the stats people….many people are not able to separate this tool from toolbox…they think it is multipurpose tool that does everything…this is the problem. YOu know as well as I do that there is no reasonable way to really quantify a game with as many variables as hockey in a perfect way…that being said tidbits of info can be gathered as they always have ben but even then they are as you say tools in a toolbox. Not everyone sees it that way though. I also wouldn’t commend the Leafs for “thinking outside the box” as many teams have guys like this….these stats wil never be as good as baseball which is an inidivdually played team sport where percentages and probability are hugely meaningful. Basketball analytics track shooting tendencies and accuracy from certain spots, etc and these are an advantage to be sure…it may point out something you otherwise didn’t know …but ultimately your first paragraph I highlighted says it all…..but you aren’t the one doing all of the talking that is annnoying people.

      You and I differ on this topic by very little….I just am not sure the work put in equals the output though at this point…..I still think that more meaningful results can be deduced if someone just creates a decsion making/execution/time model. That is the key….even then it will still be a tool but it would be the most effective tool possible. Possessing the puck isn’t as important as the decisions made with and without the puck.
      I view hockey as a high speed decision making contest wherby all are not created equal in ability to think or act…..it is a team contest where one decision affects another, affects another,etc,etc…..The game really quite simply is …decision making and execution.

      • twilighthours says:

        Krob, I’m not trying to pick on you today. Although it seems like it. BUt there is good fodder for discussion here.

        1) I have never seen any analytics person ever say that their metrics are the be-all and end-all, and that they tell the whole story. Have you?

        2) Think about it this way. Possessing the puck is the result of make good decisions without (or with) the puck. If you’re a good hockey player, and make good decisions, then you will ultimately possess the puck more. A puck possession metric (which corsi or fenwick tries to represent) would be an indicator that a player is good at regaining it and keeping it. Most of he time, our eye test tells us what possession numbers tell us: Markov is good, Emelin not as good. Sometimes, we are deceived. Not to pick on poor Doug Murray but it’s easy to fall in love with his big hits (I did!) while maybe glossing over the fact that he had a terrible shot differential.

        Decision making and execution are hard to quantify. But, as the theory goes, if a player is good at them then these new metrics will reveal that.

        • shiram says:

          To be fair Twi, some people do think those analytic are the be-all and end-all.
          Though I have not seen it stated in more professional environment.

          • twilighthours says:

            I can’t think of one person, and I spend some time over at EOTP. There are a few who are aggressive about their research and what they think it tells them, but I’ve repeatedly read, “in addition to good scouting, coaching” etc. Truly. I’ve never seen one person say that all you need are analytics. The most recent Oilers hire is even on record as saying that the word of an NHL coach is more valuable than that of an analyst.

          • shiram says:

            Heh we must not have gotten in the same discussions then!
            I did not mean to imply EOTP, either.

            But as in most things, it’s fair to take a balanced approach, I’m not too savvy with the advanced stats, but I don’t dismiss them either.
            But I also see some holes in what those stats say.

          • twilighthours says:

            What are the holes you see? Curious.

          • shiram says:

            The whole game is not calculated in those stats, basically.
            There are some parts of the game of hockey that are not quantified, and maybe could be in the future, but are not now.

            Like say, a stick lift on an opposing forward in the defensive zone, it can be a crucial play, but it’s not quantified.

            Or a player tangling up a defense man to allow another forward a lane to shoot.

            The overall effect might be captured in the stats, but it does not recognize the importance of a single action.

        • krob1000 says:

          Yes I have….I see people on here and actually do it myself. I am very willing despite your isnistance I am not to be proven wrong…I love it…it is why I come here…normal conversation I have with typical Hab fans is not like here. Guy slike Chris, Burly, Errant, etc there are countless ones who have opened my eyes to many things…but to me these stats drvien analytic articles are usually gathered with a a fundmental flaw in that they are being skewed to explain a point of view…I know how it works..I have done it…many times. I often post counter arguments in defense or against players when I see things being slanted one way and I appreciate it when people do the same.

          As for the possessing the puck thing I think it is a factor but not the basis for the stats. I get what the general idea is and I have seen the math that so shots on net and possession when looking at massive amounts of data are a good indicator. They are …a good indicator…nothing more….they thmesleves are as Chris says a tool in the toolbox. But there are tons of flaws in using a metric based on wat I say are nothing more than factors…pretty decent ones I will agree( not sure of my data terminology but you get the idea). I like the combo of possession vs shots a little better because it is at least using multiple factors .but even then it is still fatally flawed IMO.

          I have played enough sports over the years and watched enough to deduce that skill does not equate to winning, that effort does not equate to winning….in hockey it is really mosly about decsion making and while your idea that good decsion maing leads to possession it is somehwat true but again just a factor. A guy like Gorges to me would be a great possession player….always makes the safe play, dumps pucks in deep, blocks shots, won’t risk a turnover….but at the same time he is not advancing either….he often turns possession in a good spot with a great option into a meaningless possession…or at least passess the creative burden on to someone else. I guess one can say that is better than losing it outright but it is nowhere near as good as an Anrdie Markov who makes decsions that are not the simplest…meaning they are not the ones that are best defended against and what is being anticipated. If you have ever talked to scouts they will often assess a players ability to see his options and not make the passes only to the closest player but to see his options and go a step further and create options by placing pucks in dead spots that lead to rushes and throw a defensive posture out of whack or create a en entirely new set of circumstance. The keys to decision making IMO are the speed of decision making, the ability to make the unexpected decision that is still a positive gain either territorily or with respect to creating a better spce or more time.

          Also the ability to make these decisions away from the puck to create an option so a teammate can advance the puck by finding you (this alll also becomes as important on the d side of the puck), the creation of time space and entering favourable positions is a starting point. Deception IMO is one of the most important aspects of hockey….it is an easy means of buying more time, more time allows for more options, more options are more difficult to defend and more time means a beeter likelihood you or a teammate are able to execute.

          I have played with 55 year od men who can’t skate anymore who hardly ever cross the redline but create more chances the 22 year old ex OHlers and in some cases NHlers. Individually? not even close…in fact light years apart…however….I would prefer to have the old guy on my team. He moves the puck quicker and the puck is the quickest object on the ice, he sees the game better, he thinks the game jsut flat out better and it compensates for a lot. There is a reason some old bodied NHLers are still able to produce and it isn;t because they have the best skillsets anymore.

          If I were trying to build a hockey team with this philsophy I would be looking for smarts, ability to create time and space and capitalize on it by their decsion making ability and their ability to execute these decisions (meaning a qucik decsion is useless if pass is behind someone,etc). This is wehre I beleive the team will miss a guy like Briere or Gionta more than Gorges. Of course there are other intangibles and this is why I didn;t mind sacrificing some decsion making for Douglas Murray but I did not see Gorges for what he made realtive to the cap, offered in the way of my premise here and his role on the team. Murray on a team with someone else to handle the phsyicality? wouldn’t want him either…but there were times he was needed for only his phsyicality.

          Hockey is nothing more than an object being moved at high speeds by teams of fast moving puck movers within a restricted space and time with the objective of deposting the puck into a 4 by 6 area. There are human elemetns but if you think of players as computer people who you designed to do this for you and were playing the other teams computer people the ability to decide quickly would in most cases I would argue be the most important factor. A quick decision maker capable of executing makes every other player on his team instantly better…by contrast a poor decsion maker makes everyone worse off. I don’t think possession is the ,mteric…I think it is a stat that should be measured as a result of decsion amking and a sub category…but territorial and time created/used relative possession would be key.

    • Cal says:

      Poorly collected data is just that. Reliance upon it to make an evidence-based decision is a fallacy.

      • twilighthours says:

        Which data are poorly collected? Almost all of the new metrics are derived from shot attempts, which are pretty easy to collect. The rest are derived from zone starts and finishes. And these are the ones we know about. NHL teams are several years ahead of the public on this.

      • Chris says:

        Given that most people have no idea what data is being collected by the teams (it is far more than what we see on NHL.com), isn’t it a bit futile to comment on how poor it is?

        • krob1000 says:

          Well we can only commetn on what is out there….and what is out there is archaic and is not much more useful than the traditional stats…nice to see some variations and different thigns but still not what is needed IMO. I like the US development programs decision making project…they saw some validity in the premise with their intelligym hockey program.

          • Chris says:

            That is sort of my point. The data being worked with by the teams is almost certainly at a much higher level than what we are seeing.

            Teams are all looking for competitive advantages. If somebody has found something that they believe is actually working, you can bet they are not going to share it willingly!

    • habstrinifan says:

      Well written!

      “Protest Rogers blackout of Habs game…sign at:


  14. DipsyDoodler says:

    Fun with numbers part II.

    The Montreal Canadiens are paying Scott Gomez $1.5M this year.

    The profit on the first ~ 150,000 beers sold at the Bell Ctr will go to Scott Gomez.

    That is all.



  15. Cal says:

    I think it’ll be time for me to quit watching hockey when the headlines read like this:

    3 f”(x)+5xf(x)= Habs 3rd loss in a row.

    I am so sick of hearing about bs analytics it’s no longer funny. Congrats to the Laffs for hiring bloggers. May their sucksess continue.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I can just imagine after Leafs training camp, when Carlyle tells Nonis which players he is sending back to the Marlies, and suddenly he is told that based on their Corsi and Fenwicks he is wrong….. and then the fun begins.

      • DipsyDoodler says:

        Carlyle is one losing streak away from losing his job I think.



      • Cal says:

        No kidding. They’re masters of the obvious, anyways.

        • Luke says:

          Yah, except guys like Carlyle love to ignore the obvious…

          Orr and McLaren do not help you win.

          Sadly, the Leafs are replacing the Carlyle types with those who can grasp the ‘obvious.’

          • HabinBurlington says:

            No doubt, but the arguments could be epic.

          • Luke says:

            Hope they do a 24/7 and leave the juicy bits in…

            “He’s a gamer. A real heart and soul type. He’s important! He’s got Intangibles!”

            “When he’s on the ice we are out shot consistently and rarely have the puck in the opposition’s zone.”

            “He’s good in the room! The guys love him. He makes us a better team! Do you even watch the game?”

            “Yah, I watch the game. I see that when he’s on the ice we are overwhelmed. Here’s some evidence to back up what I see when I watch the game.”

            “But, umm, did you ever play the game?!”

            “Have you ever conducted thorough review and analysis?”

    • frontenac1 says:

      The Quants should never replace Common Sense amigo. Just ask the boys on Wall Street.

    • John Q Public says:

      “No, no that’s ah, that’s 3.14 country.”

    • twilighthours says:

      Now imagine yourself in (someone like) my shoes, where I read seemingly non-stop about the Habs acquiring an enforcer, Subban’s character/defensive issues, and how the Habs need to get bigger.

      Everyone has their pet issues. It’s all part of living with your family.

  16. HabinBurlington says:

    So where do the Hockey Stats guys place our #1 duo of forward/dman?


    Behind Fleischman and Campbell? But the stats say those two are better!

  17. HabinBurlington says:

    Am trying really hard to figure out which Canadian hockey media giant Mike Ditka is reminding me of…..


  18. Un Canadien errant says:

    Allan Muir thinks Kevin Hayes made a “curious” choice, since the Rangers already have a profusion of right wingers.


    It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd


  19. John Q Public says:

    Sounds like the knee is good to go.
    I would like to nominate Captain Crunch for the vacancy.

  20. Un Canadien errant says:

    The latest from Sean McIndoe:


    It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd


  21. Un Canadien errant says:

    I linked to this article lower down, and got sucked in and re-read Bill Simmons’ takedown of Jim Dolan. It’s a classic, there’s a laugh every couple of paragraphs, I highly recommend it.


    The passage below got me thinking…

    Legacy kids can succeed or fail as sports owners like anyone else, but one thing sets them apart: They inherited their opportunity with, in some case, no real credentials at all. Let’s say I retired in 20 years and turned this column over to my son, but he couldn’t write and didn’t know anything about sports. You would think this was weird. You would make fun of him. You would say, “Why the hell would ESPN employ Simmons’s son, isn’t this the strangest thing ever?” In the business world, it’s par for the course. It happens all the time. As the old saying goes, James Dolan was born on third base and thought he hit a triple.

    …that we got massively lucky with Geoff Molson as owner of our team. He seems to have inherited the Molson family’s probity, restraint, and dignity when it comes to the Canadiens, along with a genuine love of the team and the game. The comparison to Jim Dolan isn’t perfectly apt, Geoff Molson didn’t inherit the team, but rather had to cobble together an investment group to acquire the team from George Gillett, but I’m running with the idea that his family fortune and good name is what allowed him to re-gain control.

    And from the first time he was interviewed on RDS way back, I felt optimistic about our fate. We may take this for granted, but when we compare to Jim Dolan, to Mark Davis with the Oakland Raiders (I can barely contain my glee on this one), and what Ed Bronfman Jr. did with the Seagram empire and Bronfman family legacy, turning an immense fortune into a much more modest endowment, just so he could produce movies and records and date starlets, we should thank our stars.

    Best-case scenario would be for the Canadiens to be a community-owned team like the Green Bay Packers or the Saskatchewan Roughriders, but failing that, having Geoff Molson as team owner and president is close to ideal.

    It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd


    • DipsyDoodler says:

      Agree that Geoff is a good one, but the last Moslon dynasty was a disaster. They bought the Habs in 1977 and made nothing but bad decisions thereafter.



    • HabinBurlington says:

      Couldn’t agree more Norm, and Dolan in particular is a complete idiot. He has to be saddened with the demise of Sterling as his incompetent ownership of the Knicks gets more light of day.

      I am now thinking Sather never retires, he just won’t show up to work one day and then Dolan will wonder what to do. Perhaps Milbury gets another shot in the NHL at that time.

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        One interesting aspect of those two’s dynamic is how hands-off James Dolan seemingly is with the Rangers, he’s more pre-occupied with the Knicks, but Glen Sather a few years ago broadly hinted that his owner had made him sign the big free agent deals to Scott Gomez, Wade Redden, Chris Drury, etc. He said that while he wanted to build patiently through the draft, the owner told him he needed to make a big splash and sign big names, that that was needed in a major market like New York to garner attention.

      • frontenac1 says:

        Dolan plays in a Blues Band. He opened for ZZ Top last year and he sucked. ZZ was great though. They put on the Best show I’ve seen in years. Saludos!

  22. adamkennelly says:

    did MB pick up a decent NHL fighter yet?

  23. B says:

    Mark Moore is now saying that his brother Steve has NOT reached any settlement re the Bertuzzi lawsuit.

    –Go Habs Go!–

    • 24 Cups says:

      Maybe Bertuzzi is trying to settle things so he can get an NHL tryout at training camp.

      If this goes to trial (possibly four months in duration), it will dwarf anything else going on in the NHL. This will be the OJ Simpson trial, NHL style. Forget training camp, the season openers or outdoor games. The fallout and bad publicly for Bettman and the NHL will be brutal.

      24 Cups

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Just heard Rick Westhead on TSN, sounds indeed like Bertuzzi’s camp appears to be trying to pressure Moore into a settlement, in time for Bertuzzi to try get 1 more contract.

        This is a bizarre story, and doesn’t appear over yet.

  24. murfdog says:

    Alright guys, for the big hab fans in ontario what channel is brining in habs games? I havent been able to find much on it.

    • B says:

      Rogers nationally has 32 Habs games (plus playoffs):
      5 Wednesday on SN
      1 Thursday on SN360 (Nov 13 vs BOS)
      18 Saturday on HNIC
      1 Saturday on SN (Oct 18 vs COL)
      2 Saturday on City (Oct 11 in PHI, Oct 25 vs NYR)
      4 Sunday on City
      1 Sunday on SN (Feb 8 in BOS)

      TVA nationally has the opener vs Toronto on Wed Oct. 8th, 21 Saturday night games and the playoffs. Note that all the TVA games are also available nationally in English as per the Rogers group coverage listed above.

      RDS regionally has 60 Habs games:
      9 Pre-season
      1 Saturday afternoon (Jan 31 1:00 PM vs WAS)
      59 on Sun, Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs and Fri.
      The opener on Wed Oct. 8th is only on SN and TVA. All other Su,M,T,W,T,F games are on RDS.
      Note that Wed Mar 4th at Anaheim and Sun Apr 5th at Florida are on RDS only (and not on any of the Rogers group).

      –Go Habs Go!–

    • veryhabby says:

      Murfdog…if you live West of Belleville, you get 32 regular season national games as listed below nicely by B. You won’t get any preseason.

      Plus you will get the playoffs, most likely!!! Problem is if every Canadian team makes the playoffs, who will they show all Nationally? That’s my concern. but for now, pretty sure MTL will be shown nationally in the playoffs no matter who else makes it!

      So 32 regular season games, plus playoffs. You will just have to check your local listings what channel they are on. Or you can google and print out the SN/Rogers NHL broadcast schedule to know (for example) exactly which Wed night games are being show nationally. You can also see this list buy clicking on above link for ” Canadians Regular season games”. There is a TV listing there. So anything that says SN, CityTV, CBC are national. (or TVAsports in French, but all those are in English in the 3 I just mentioned)

      I think

    • murfdog says:

      Thanks lads

    • New says:

      The Habs regular season schedule was kindly posted above by HIO with the broadcasters listed for each game. That doesn’t mean much though as your service provider will black out games depending on how they and Rogers interpret the regional rules.

      The most effective solution is to watch fewer games. Your viewing does not effect the outcome of the game in any manner. Your not viewing however forces change.

  25. Old Bald Bird says:

    I think last season, an assistant coach said that they were trying to turn PK from a running back into a quarterback. Not sure that is the way to go. Maybe he should become a running back who is a pass threat?

    WRT comments about PK playing at his best with Markov last year. I saw it as the other way around — Markov was at his best when playing with PK.

    • krob1000 says:

      You would have too look up when they were paired together and when they were split but here are Subban’s numbers by month and then Markov’s…

      Oct – Plus 4 and 11 pts
      Nov -Plus 4 and 12 pts
      dec -plus 1, and 6 pts
      Jan- minus 6 and 7 pts
      Feb-even and 2 pts (only 7 games played)
      March/April – minus 8, 12 pts (in 21 games played)

      Oct-plus 9 and 4 pts
      Nov-Plus 4 and 12pts
      Dec-minus 5 and 5 pts
      Jan-minus 3 and 6 pts
      Feb-Plus 4 and 5pts
      Mar/Apr-plus 3 and 10 pts

      • twilighthours says:

        And of course not just +/- and pts, since they don’t tell the whole story.

        • krob1000 says:

          When the difference as dramatic as it was it matters…I personally blame part of it on Gorges but that was not popular on here as he was going to be the next captain and all. Emelin wasn;t exactly stellar either though. Markov has a londg history of making whoever he plays with beter. Subban definitely struggled but the discreapncy is alrge enough that it defintely matters

          From Jan-April
          Subban numbers are minus 14 and 23 points
          Markov is plus 4 and 21 points
          So it is pretty clear that wehnt hey separated Markov dramatically outplayed Subban. Not sure what other numbers or measurirng stick you would like to use but I have maintained all along and until someone can show me differently that Markov flat out outplayed Subban last year. He led him in TOi, Markov was used in all situations, Markov did this at waht I would estimate is about 85 percent of the old Anrdie Markov.

          What stat whould we use that shows this any other way? I know this stat also holds up to my eye test as well as I saw a steady and consistent Markov from beiginning to end and I saw a Struggling gSubban who had a very forgettable season when looked at on the whole. HE was stellar in the playoffs…but his season was not great and was definitely not better than Markov’s.

          • twilighthours says:

            See below. It’s a complicated situation with a non-obvious answer.

            We all love Subban and Markov, and we all know how great they are. Who carried who? That’s a tough one to answer, in my opinion.

      • Chris says:

        Using Michael Fleming’s excellent data, Subban and Markov were paired together until game 36, a 3-1 victory against the Phoenix Coyotes on December 17th, during which the Markov-Subban pairing was replaced with Markov-Emelin and Gorges-Subban pairings.

        Going into that game, Markov had 2 goals, 19 points and sported a +9 rating through 35 games. Subban had 4 goals, 25 points and sported a +8 rating.

        Overall, here is Subban’s +/- (per 60 minutes) with his most common defence partners:

        Andrei Markov – 37 GF, 32 GA, 667:04 ice time, +0.5
        Josh Gorges – 21 GF, 18 GA, 469:17 ice time, +0.4
        Francis Bouillon – 12 GF, 17 GA, 262:32 ice time, -1.0
        Douglas Murray – 2 GF, 3 GA, 48:13 ice time, -1.1
        Jarred Tinordi – 2 GF, 5 GA, 61:54 ice time, -2.8

        Here are the same figures for Andrei Markov:

        PK Subban – 37 GF, 32 GA, 667:04 ice time, +0.5
        Alexei Emelin – 27 GF, 22 GA, 629:32 ice time, +0.5
        Raphael Diaz – 2 GF, 1 GA, 64:51 ice time, +0.9
        Francis Bouillon – 2 GF, 1 GA, 34:02 ice time, +1.8
        Josh Gorges – 1 GF, 0 GA, 33:16 ice time, +1.8

        There were some other pairings, but the sample size for that data is pretty small.

        From that data, I would argue that the Emelin-Markov pairing, which certainly had its struggles at times, were the most effective for the team. The offensive production when they were on the ice was lower than what it had been for Subban-Markov, but the goals against went way down. And that despite the fact that the Markov-Emelin pairing was more often than not (and what I believed to be erroneously) the shut-down pairing for Therrien, put out against the other team’s top players.

        I’m still not convinced that Therrien was right to feed Markov so many high-pressure minutes, as I believe that contributed to him running out of gas at the end of the season. But while it was sometimes scary, Markov and Emelin were the most sound of the main pairings last season on the scoreboard.

        • twilighthours says:

          Definitely need quality of competition numbers to go along with this. Markov lead the team in ice time, but did he have the toughest assignments? Needs to knows that before anything can be drawn about most effective Dman. In the marquee games (Chi and Pitts) and into the playoffs, Subban got the toughest assignments. That’s interesting, no?

          • krob1000 says:

            I would wager they are pretty darn close if not tilted in favour of Markvo/Emelin pairing. Subban also wasn’t used on the PK…very draining. Markov was also playing with Emelin who was recovering from injury himself and is realtviely new to the NSA game if we are going to go into details taht aaren;t as meaningful as the simple fact that Markov out played Subban this year. Subban had an off year…is it that hard for people to accept? You go and find me anything indicating tha tSubban had a better year…and I will try to agree but the numbers in this case only illustrate what my eyes already told me…Markov was more reliable and a better player last season for the Montreal Canadiens than Subban…it isn’t a bad thing. Means team has two stud dmen.

          • twilighthours says:

            The argument was not who had a better year – I agree that it was Markov. The argument began with the similar yet subtly different argument “who helped who more?” and then morphed into “who had tougher assignments?”

            And, by the way, if I did find something that indicated that Subban had a better year, I actually don’t think you’d accept it. Just being honest with ya, Krob.

          • Chris says:

            I’m not sure that either guy had a better year. Markov played very well for about half the season, but average the other half. Same with Subban.

            Subban really ramped up his game in the playoffs. I also thought Markov was very good in the playoffs, but it was more strong positional play than offensive numbers.

            If I had to pick one, I would probably go with Subban because I think his play was more representative of the team’s success. Also, Subban had to deal with Gorges’ non-existent offensive game, so he gets some props for putting in so many minutes with the most conservative player we’ve seen in years.

  26. veryhabby says:

    Who cares how many pre-season games Habs are playing as we (high % of hab fans who don’t live in Quebec) won’t be able to watch any of it.

    Oh well, trying to make it seem like the 32 National Games SN will allow me to watch this year is like a HUGE number. 32 is a lot, repeat, 32 is lot, repeat…….

    yes I signed the petition months ago.

    But as for the 8 in 13 days…that’s aweful for the team. I hate how $ is always whats most important to teams. We will see many kids play many games, kids who won’t even a shot in hell to make the team. Waste of game prep time. We need to see who PA will play with. Last year they penciled Briere in with DD line and only got 1 pre-season game and didn’t figure it out till a month later that it just wasn’t going to work…and then Briere just never fit anywhere else.

    It’s going to be a month of us talking about “our” lines as the coaches try all kinds during the 1st month of the season…instead of it being figured out during camp.

    • Cal says:

      Got the numbers of tonight’s 6/49? I mean, like, you have it all figured out and everything.

      • veryhabby says:

        Cal of course I have it, so why would I share them?

        What’s there to “have all figured out”. Anyone can see that playing 8 games in 13 days means lots of $ for the team, and little time to have your regular players in the line up. It’s nothing new, check the line ups from last few pre-season. It doesn’t take much to know it’s better to have your starting 12 frwd and starting 3 pairs on Dmen play as many games prior to the start of season then to get that chemistry going during the season. Duh…

        • Cal says:

          Looks like my retirement plan won’t come to fruition after all.

          Every year, the Habs do 8 or 9 games in pre-season. 5 should be plenty, but the big however is giving a rookie that’s shining more looks before the regular season starts.

        • Loop_Garoo says:

          It will work out to each player playing 3 or 4 games over 2 weeks, so it wont be too bad, but yes, people pay a lot of money to see exhibition games.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      I remember the 2011-12 season started like this, with a lot of pre-season games in a short amount of time. The upshot was that the Canadiens kept a lot of AHL and junior players up until later than usual, just to have enough bodies to play in all those games. And the team never really gelled, they didn’t get a chance to play the lines and defensive combos and get some coordination. The season started off with a tailspin, and we never really came out of it.

      Last season we had a busy exhibition, but the games were staggered so that at the end we had our team basically set and playing together, Daniel Brière notwithstanding. I hope we manage it the same way this year, and don’t need to re-learn the lesson we did in 2011.

  27. Kooch7800 says:

    A guy I went to school with that sells the andriod boxes they just put out a quick promo:


    If there is a bunch of people who want them I wonder if I couldn’t negotiate a discounted rate.

    • ClutchNGrab says:

      What’s the advantage of buying that vs an appletv? The apple tv sells for $109.

      • DipsyDoodler says:

        Or Chromecast for $40.



        • Kooch7800 says:

          Chromechast you have to stream to it from another device. This eliminates that. Just connect to wifi and away you go

          • DipsyDoodler says:

            If you have wifi, chances are you have that other device. Several of them.



          • Kooch7800 says:

            The idea of streaming from one device to another is a pain in the arse for me. I would rather have it connect to the internet and use directly instead of multiple devices.

            Whatever works for you. For me that doesn’t work

      • Kooch7800 says:

        Apple TV 3rd Gen can’t be jail broke yet. In order to put XBMC on it you have to Jail break an apple TV. if not you are also streaming from a laptop or PC. Apple TV 3 is the only one that is also actually 1080 p. Earlier versions were 720.

        The Android system is open so no need to jail break and it is is 1080. I had two buddies sell their apple tv and replace it with these.

  28. Un Canadien errant says:

    Interesting that in the SB Nation article Burli linked to, they point out the Rangers now have hit their 50 contract limit with the Kevin Hayes signing. They expect the team to make some moves to reduce that number, to provide some flexibility.

    So since Glen Sather is over a barrel, maybe we can take a contract off their hands, say Danny Kristo? For a second-rounder maybe? The karmic wheel would reset to zero, it would be like the NHL Circle of Life.

    Or we could talk Ryan McDonagh?


    It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd


  29. on2ndthought says:

    Kovalev has an opinion….. yawn

    Lafleurguy posted the video today of the huge comeback win over Ottawa this year. If you watch it you can see PK trying too hard, on the ice too long, and ultimately being a huge part of a significant 2 points.

    All those who love to criticize DD should also watch that small sample size. Also any wondering what we’ll miss about Gio should take a look; less for his goal (which was all PK, but Gio had net presence) than for his defensive edge along the boards.

    “a cannonading drive”

    • Chris says:

      There were many games where Kovalev was also on the ice trying too hard, on the ice too long, and it was ultimately a part of a significant 2 points.

      That was always the problem with Kovalev: he wasn’t lazy, he was prone to trying to do too much. Kovalev knew he was the best player on his team, and I don’t think he ever truly respected his teammates’ skill. So when the going got tough, Kovalev tried to be ‘the man’.

      Subban is also prone to that trait, albeit on a more minor scale. As he matures as a player, I am hoping to see less of his hopeless 1 vs. 4 or 1 vs. 5 rushes, which simply expend energy needlessly while accomplishing a whole lot of nothing. I would like to see Subban use his teammates more quickly: his default reaction is almost always to shoot or try to maneuver to open up a shooting lane. But there are many times where a quick pass on his own part is the smarter play.

      Subban has great vision and had some absolutely beautiful passes leading to goals last season. I would like to see more of that side of his game.

      • Cal says:

        Kovalev was prone to doing too much without using his teammates, who may as well have been on the bench.
        Seeing Kovalev do a give and go was a rare thing. It was more take the puck and I go.

  30. B says:

    A closer look at 6’8” and 250-plus pound Joe Finley:

    –Go Habs Go!–

  31. DipsyDoodler says:

    Burly – I agree 100%.

    Given that Lucic won’t fight legit enforcers (and in fairness why should he?) the solution lies in the way of the ninja.

    The enforcers, with their codes, are like Samurai. Honorable brave warriors, but kinda dumb.

    But what a Samurai can’t do, a Ninja can.



  32. shiram says:

    Danny Picard ‏@DannyPicard

    Sources tell me Kevin Hayes has signed with the New York Rangers.

    So, this is not official, but still… annoying.

    Some confirmation :
    Ray FerraroVerified account ‏@rayferrarotsn

    John @Buccigross reports from Dublin on Ray Ferraro’s twitter feed that @KevinPHayes12 has signed with @NYRangers #blueshiirts

  33. Steeltown Hab says:

    Subban isn’t all flash – He’s the work ethic, drive and competitiveness to be the best. When you’re that good you’re going to come across as flashy.

    Don’t tell me Toews, Crosby, Doughty aren’t flashy the things they do are ridiculous (in a wow grade-A talent type of way).

    Does Subban have flash? Ya is Gorges 100% by the book in terms of hockey cliches, Ya.

    Subban is in another universe as a shutdown defensemen than Gorges, that’s the pt ppl can’t seem to understand.

    Just his performance against Pitt in the 2010 playoff run as a rookie was a better defensive performance than any defensive I’ve watched wear the CH (Koivu era – now).


    Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Emelin, Bournival, De La Rose – @J_Perez22

    • krob1000 says:

      “all flash”? never said that..but his flash does blind people to the finer details and faults in his game..and his defense was very suspect last year. IF you are referring to him one on one, or in puck battles? he is stellar…but being out of position?causing turnovers or stopping his teammates and getting team in trouble on transition? not getting pucks through or deep? delaying and allowing the defensive posturing of the opposition which leads to them being better organized in their transition game, his tendancy to “puck watch” at times in the defensvie zone?….sorry but those are all things I notice regularly with him and I am not in the same stratosphere as the worst NHL related coach in history. He is getting better….but he is not a “shutdown dman” by any stretch….I am sure he could become one if he chose to focus on that….he has that ability …but instead he should be striving to be the best all around player he can be…that is what is needed of him and his defensive game definitely needs work as does his decision making. He has already shown me the ability to adapt as he somehow managed to alter his windup and no longer winds up to the moon and that helped him immensely on the pp last year…he will likely get it ..but he has faults right now…all players do. As for comparing him to Doughty, Crosby or Toews…he is not there…not even close…right now he is more in a middling category between Brian Campbell, Mike Green, Keith Yandle types and the Shea Webers, Duncan Keith, Ryan Suters and Drew Doughty’s.

    • PrimeTime says:

      So you think in terms of extremes? it’s well documented your a huge S-man fan, along with others here – Paz, DDO, Dipsy, Trini, etc. I rather the team be armed with many weapons like a disciplined LA Kings that wins by a goal or too than one that loses high scoring games by a goal or two. But that’s just me.

      • Steeltown Hab says:

        You want a team loaded with weapons..who doesnt?


        Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Emelin, Bournival, De La Rose – @J_Perez22

      • Steeltown Hab says:

        You want a team loaded with weapons..who doesnt? How does our best weapon not fit into that?


        Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Emelin, Bournival, De La Rose – @J_Perez22

    • Maritime Ronn says:

      You write, ” Subban is in another universe as a shutdown defensemen than Gorges, that’s the pt ppl can’t seem to understand.”
      Gorges is now gone and comparing a supposed top NHL Dman to what has become a #5 Dman if he was on a true contender, is not the proper comparison.

      Can Subban become an elite shut-down Dman?
      The jury is still out, and it would take a much greater Dzone awareness and Dzone anticipation going forward.

      There is also a question of concentration and involvment when Subban doesn’t have the puck.
      Those are the flaws in his game right now.

  34. Maritime Ronn says:

    I see Kovalev is squeaking out the last few minutes of notoriety via the summer, hockey thirsty Montreal media….

    What is amusing in all of this, is that his words will be ancient history by the weekend.
    Be that as it may, a short letter to Mr. Kovalev…

    Dear Mr. Kovalev

    While you certainly have every right to criticise anything you wish, what struck me was the complaint about the Subban contract and being overpaid and not worth that money.

    Perhaps a little walk down memory lane is required to put things in perspective.

    Back in 2003-04, you scored a combined 14 goals in 78 games with the Rangers-Habs.
    For that you were paid $6.6M.

    That $6.6M number – when adjusted for inflation in 2014, represents $8,545,923.
    Last season that would have equated to the 6th highest salary in the NHL.

    Something about glass houses and stones comes to mind.

    As for P.K. Subban, he is a hockey youngster in both age and experience trying to learn the finer points of the game in a very tough and demanding market.

    There were reasons and weaknesses in his game as to why he wasn’t a top pick compared to a guy like Drew Doughty.
    While you may have picked up on some of the more obvious flaws, these are all fixable with maturity and a better understanding of the overall game.
    Those are teachable aspects.

    One thing you cannot teach Mr. Kovalev, is heart-desire- a monster will to win, and leaving it out on the ice just about every single game…..
    It would have been a joy to watch you consistently play with those intangibles…

  35. John Q Public says:

    Can someone help me understand this please.
    If you create a donut type treat in the shape of the Habs logo would that be subject to ™ infringement ?

  36. Mavid ® says:


    Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

  37. krob1000 says:

    There seems to be a contingent of Hab fans who really, really enjoy the flash. There were people who preferred Kovy to Koivu, Halak to Price, Subban to Markov, Dd to PLeks,etc,etc. This to me is all about excitement and being dazzled by skill and the awesomeness of some of the plays these guys make. However, quite frankly from a hockey perspective…flash does not always equate to success.

    This same phenomenon is everywhere……parents who have the ideal kid often spend most of their time and attention on their troubled kid. There is something intriguing and challenging and sometimes there is a human tendency to be attracted to different.

    Hockey though is different….it is a game based on cohesion, the sum of the parts must be greater than the whole for success, being a cog in the machine is what it is about. The greats in todays game, as tight as hockey has become, are different now(this is not the 1970’s or 80’s anymore). A great player must contribute within the framework his team has cut out…..he can then excel and become a gamebreaker beyond that but there is simply no room for wild horses anymore…not on a successful team anyway.

    Once that barn gate is opened and a bunch of horses escape you have a real problem….it is easiest and most efficient in a game like hockey to keep everyone on the same page. To me Kovy’s comments are a bit ironic as he was very similar to Subban…so you can look at it one of 2 ways: 1. Kovy is abeing awfully hypocrtical and the jealousy is a factor…which is possible …or 2. Kovy is just relaying the message he was told over and over everywhere he went and now upon reflecting on his career and distancing himself from the game he has become wiser and sees things he didn’t see before.

    I think sometimes last year the team was extrtemely frustrated with Subban, however at times they knew his gamebreaking and ability to generate was their only hope. I view him not that unlike Ovechkin in Washinton. I think though Subban is in a better environment and has a better leadership group leading the way and you could see at times him trying to rein his game in and do the right thing. In PK’s defense it must be awfully difficult to know you can do something but have to hold back…but holding back is often the right thing to do. This is all on the offensive and PK needs to remember that him gambling means someone else must cover if he does not choose his opportunities well….normally that means a guy like Pleks, Eller, Moen, Gionta, etc would recognize it and fill in.

    I thought PK jumped leaps and bounds during the playoffs but I also thought sometimes late in games he would in Ovechkin like fashion try to “take over”….while his intentions are great…it has to be done within the framework of the team otherwise it frustrates teammates because they too can likely make a mad rush down the ice …but that isn’t how the game is played in Montreal.

    I think PK played his best overall hockey early on when he was with Markov…this was not great for the team though as the tem was thin on puck movers…but for PK it was great….Markov does play the game the right way and is the perfect role model for PK.. Sure he is aging and makes mistakes but they are different mistakes.

    PK has all world potential and I am on board with Kovy in that he shouldn’t have got 9 million…but in seeing some of the other contracts being signed of late it really isn’t that bad but he needs to now perform relative to that contract and in order to do that…his performance needs to be similar production but with much more stability and a more polished team game…it is going to be tough but hopefully he can get paired with Marky again?

    PK needs to realize his team has plenty of guys who can be doing better individually but sacrifice that for the team…I look at the Pleks, Markov, Gio while he was here, Eller type players who know they are being asked to play roles that limit their offensive output abiltiy but still play within the framework the team has decided to use.
    Flash attracts but flash does not win. When I look at recent cup history the only “flashy” superstar I see is Kane and he is surrounded by an unfair amount of guys who play the right way and still produce in Toews, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Hossa,etc so he gets some wiggle room…kind of like Bure used to get and to some extent Gaborik got when he was picked up. What is interesting is that Montreal went and got their guy like that in Vanek….but …it was difficult because the team was not as tight as Chicago or LA and having that type of player was a liability and would take special minute management to make it effective…even then doubt it could have been done.

    Personally I think they could have made better use of Vanek…but I am guessing longer term objectives and desire to not let the horses out of their barn was more important to the team and they did not want to go down that road. They are grooming Chucky the same way and players in Montreal need to understand this team is trying to develop a Detroit model or Chicago model. Kane is a forward and Subban a D…the team has guys on offesne and PK needs to play to his ability but take better risks and everything will be fine….if he tries to produce individually and it is not within the team framework,however good his intentions may be,it will not matter…..he will be reigned in.

    I know to some this is blasphemy to some but I think in the long run if PK buys in it will be the best thing to happen for him personally and the team….he got his payday and has his future if he chooses to buy in…it can be a beautiful relationship and maybe Kovy is forgetting this kid is only 25 years old. My take is that Subban without the contract pressure, the Team Canada thing, seeing his teams success getting to the semi’s twice in recent years…..I think PK will get it and the team will be set on D for years. Here is hoping anyway.

    • Kooch7800 says:


      I agree with you that PK has lots of areas to work on. On thing we can’t contest is that PK gives it 110% every shift. Sometimes he does burn the team with a high risk play but he is still maturing. Kovalev could not have said that he gave 110% every shift. Their is a huge difference in heart

      • krob1000 says:

        No doubt he does and I would not attempt to compare the two heart wise…I was referring to their tendencies to try to overplay as indivduals at times. Pk’s problem is more than the plays he does get burned on…it is the deviating at all from the team play …the mistake being captialized on or not is for the most part irrelevant in the bigger picture.

        Everyone knows PK a cornerstone of this team…so he needs to be a guy players view as a role model and a guy they try to emulate and respect because he is putting them before himself. This is where sometimes PK gets into trouble and I don’t think it is intentional…and the best eveidence IMO is the heart you mention…but that doesn’t mean it is right.

        Sometimes it is him simply turning back at the blueline to shake a guy and then stopping all of his forwards…he normally breaks free and gets away still in possession of the puck…but it has thrown off the team attack and rendered some his teammates uselss because they are now stopped or standing still…these types of little things are bigger mistakes from a team perspective than we see them for as fans. IT is this type of simple seeming play that can lead to in fighting, benchings and tear teams apart….and PK in his mind has done nothing wrong. Same thing when he goes and looks for the hit in 24ch and they tell him not to look for the hits….this was a distinct gameplan in Montreal ..to take away the middle of the ice…so vacating the middle to plaster some guy is not what the rest of the team is doing…so it is a bigger probelm than we see.

        Hockey is very fast, and so detailed oriented and really is like a machine…if one part is not functioning the rest of the machine does not function as well. PK is learning but he got paid like someone who has already learned…but the new tv deal skews things…that is going to magnify the spotlight on him for sure.

        • bwoar says:

          Those ‘little things’ – especially the plays were he makes the forwards stop – are the stuff he should be expected to correct this coming season. It is frustrating to watch, I can only imagine what the forwards think.

          • Luke says:

            Ugh. The Gomezian rush…

            I have long lamented this, PK “leading” the rush when he’s the last guy. It frustrated me as much as Eller and his endless backhand flip passes into traffic…

            Hopefully, we see fewer of both of these this season.

        • Kooch7800 says:

          I agree with your comments Krob

      • Just a Habs Fan says:

        The whole debate on PK is silly just as someone saying they give 110% which is impossible as far as I know from my engineering background. PK is a liability in some ways and also a huge talent in other ways thinking of offense. He isn’t a stellar defenseman and anyone suggesting that is not thinking clearly. The coach seems to believe he is a liability in certain situations but the blind fan seems to think he is superman and the coach a fool…well neither is the case. I read this forum almost every day and have been watching the Habs for over 50 years now with the exception of overseas postings for a few of those but maybe I am not as astute as some in my observations of PK. Really there are some great posters on here ( even some that say things like he gives 110% ) I find it interesting that anyone can think of PK as a great defenseman when he had a minus after his name last year on a very winning club….and surely you same guys saw with your own eyes the numerous times PK stickhandled up the ice weaving in and out of opposing players while his team-mates waited at the blue line…..perhaps the numerous times he gave the puck up trying to go through the complete opposing team…..maybe the high ally -oops pass that came down in center ice only to come back into his end in a hurry… …. .perhaps the quadruple elbows to the back of opposing players that drew a quite a few penalties especially late in games. MT didn’t bench him because he was doing all the right things….it will come as a surprise to many on here but MT wants to win also…his job depends on it. The same fans say he doesn’t get the ice time he should have but he had the 2nd most ice time per game on the team and only 45 seconds less than the leading player. I still contend he is a creative player that will have to start controlling his emotions and also improve his defensive play drastically to come close to deserving this contract that was signed.

        • krob1000 says:

          Oh yeah engineer guy!

          Effort Boy: Do not try and give more than 100 percent. That’s impossible. Instead… only try to realize the truth.
          Engineer: What truth?
          Effort boy: There is no 100 percent.
          Engineer: There is no 100 percent?
          Effort boy: Then you’ll see, that it is not the effort percentage that bends, it is only yourself.

    • JF says:

      Great post, both about the way the game itself is played and about P.K. I agree that it was clear at times last season that he was trying to rein himself in a bit. I think the coaching staff was trying as well – hence the occasional benching and Therrien’s apparent reluctance to praise P.K. P.K.’s game needs discipline, something he himself is sometimes aware of.

      Not to split hairs, but he isn’t actually getting $9 million for a couple of years; the contract is structured so that he earns most in the middle years. But in any case, the Habs had little choice about the contract; P.K. and his agent had refused $8 million. If we weren’t going to give him close to what he wanted, someone else would.

      • krob1000 says:

        Thanks. On the money though, how much players actually make is irrelevant to me. I only care about their cap hit…if this was pre salary cap I wouldn’t care a bit how much he made but in the cap world any overpayment hampers the teams ability to improve and that is where it bothers me.

    • bwoar says:

      You’ve brought forward pretty much everything I’ve thought about Subban and his relationship to the ‘team game’ – great post krob.

      I fully expect PK and Markov to play together. I’ve thought that Subban could really, relaly help Markov extend his career 2-3 years if there were a pairing, in fact I called that during the lockout when the majority was saying there was no way they *could* play together. Sure enough they make one of the best 1-2 combos in the game. I think their attitudes and appraoches are perfect together.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Good Comments Krob and good dialogue regarding the whole big picture.

      Very excited about this upcoming season, perhaps not as high a finish, but we are starting to see the future of this team take over. PK, Price, Eller, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, and perhaps we get some glimpses of Tinordi and Beaulieu taking on bigger roles.

      Exciting times for us Habs fans!

    • PrimeTime says:

      Great post but your reasonong may hurt sales of the Subban Superman S-Cape. Some Hab fans have been wanting a “superstar” for a long time. Now that they have one, he can do no wrong and blame if he doesnt meet expectations will fall squarely on the coaching staff. They want Subban “released” to wring havoc on all comers….you didnt know he is a “once in generation” player?? Perhaps when S-man contributes as a leading “team player” as you correctly suggested we will win a cup, and all will be happy in habland.

    • shiram says:

      I think we can already see changes in his game, from 2010 to now.

      He’s doing less of the flashy stuff, and seems to play more of a team game.
      I’ll grant that there’s still areas to work, and that’s just awesome, to think he can still do much better!

      But he’ll always want to be in when the game is on the line, and he’ll want to contribute to winning those games. That’s not a bad attitude, but it just needs to channeled to make proper use of his team mates.

  38. Kooch7800 says:

    I am not worried about what Kovalev said, he is entitled to his opinion. PK does make high risk plays and hopefully as he matures he will make less of them at critical times.

    Can’t argue that Subban has tons of talent and he is now the highest paid hab in the clubs history. That is a big accomplishment.

    I just hope now that PK keeps his game simple next year and not try and do to much due to the new contract.

  39. Gumper Knows Best says:

    I always get a kick outta people when they don’t like the message they shoot the messenger.
    Anyhows.What’s Kovalov know about Subban? How many games he play against him?
    Here’s what I wanna know.
    Was that Kovalev talking for Kovalev or was that Kovalev talking for Markov and sending a big fat message Markov can’t say in public?Was he talking for maxpac and plecky too? The ugly questions nobody wants to ask.
    When you don’t like the message, shoot the Kovy messenger.

    • Steeltown Hab says:

      Lmao whatttttttttt????? Conspiracy at it’s finest


      Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Emelin, Bournival, De La Rose – @J_Perez22

    • myron.selby says:

      So what possible reason would you have for thinking that Kovalev speaks for Markov or Plekanec or Max? Why not suggest that he’s speaking for Marc Bergevin or Gary Bettman or …?

      His connection to them is about equally strong. I mean come on, this is just plain silly. In what universe do you see Plekanec phoning Kovalev and saying “I really want to criticize Subban in a very public way but it would get me in trouble. Do you think you could say it for me?”

  40. DipsyDoodler says:

    Oh, yeah, while I’m here.

    Stop dissing Kovalev.



    • Steeltown Hab says:

      Such a disgrace they let him wear the C while Koivu was out.


      Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Emelin, Bournival, De La Rose – @J_Perez22

  41. DipsyDoodler says:

    And another thing.

    We had a discussion last night about enforcers protecting their players, and why didn’t Laraque beat up Lucic. The usual.

    Laraque didn’t fight Lucic ’cause Lucic ran away. We all saw it.

    What (some of) you are saying then is that Laraque should have pulled a Bertuzzi on Lucic. He didn’t so he didn’t do his “job”.

    This is what you want for your team. The Montreal Canadiens.



    • HabinBurlington says:

      My personal take on that situation, is that Lucic as usual got to pick his spots. He loves to dish whatever he can, but only answer to this when it is convenient. He also has a coach in Julien who is smart enough to know that having Laraque fight Lucic is a lose lose scenario for the Bruins.

      Every single individual play in hockey can be analyzed and proof can be presented for how it should have been done differently. So yes you are correct in this scenario that Laraque didn’t or wasn’t able to quell the Lucic problem that night.

      However, the league still continues to have a frontier justice element in it, and I think it behooves our GM to have someone on the roster to serve as a counter measure.

      I just don’t want to see Prust going out, night after night scrapping all the other teams heavyweights.

      And while on that subject, MT needs to smarten up and not have Prust fight rookies during preseason as we saw last year. Prust seems to relish these opportunities, but the coach needs to take control here, IMO.

      • Kooch7800 says:

        In regards to Prust fighting rookies, he probably feels he needs to as he did the same when he was a rookie out trying to make a name for themselves. Scrappers know how difficult their jobs and I am sure they don’t want to turn down an invitation with a kid trying to make it.

        Your point is 100% valid. Look what happened to Kyprios in the pre-season. I would put money on it that you see Prust scrap in the pre-season though

    • frontenac1 says:

      No,no. Nothing like that amigo. Just rough him up a bit. Bitch Slap him on national television.

      • DipsyDoodler says:

        In a way he did. Kept asking him to fight and Lootch kept skating away.

        That had to be more humiliating than losing a fight.

        You knew it was humiliating when Julien had to say that he was the one who forbade Lucic to fight.

        Yeah right.

        Hold me back coach, I wanna kill him.



        • mchenske4 says:

          My question is – who is our policeman now? Say what you want about George Parros, but having him on the roster sure kept the other teams honest. We are back to where we were 2 years ago with Prust, maybe Weiss or Moen answering the bell. Not good 🙁

          • Ian Cobb says:

            Parros had two major fights and he got knocked out both times!!!

          • Luke says:

            Parros played 22 games and missed/scratched for 60.

            He was carried out of at least two of the 22 he played.

            He kept no one ‘honest’.

          • Loop_Garoo says:

            I don’t think any enforcer ever does anything to keep anyone “honest”, it’s just a revenge thing, the cheap shots happen either way, and likely happen more often when you have an enforcer.

          • GrosBill says:

            GP barely played, how did he keep teams honest from the press box? Absolutely no loss there IMO. When he did come back, I cringed every time I watched him fight, I cringed more if I had to watch him play hockey.

            Murray played that role far more than GP did last year (and played many more games). Murray doesn’t drop the gloves that often, but he surely didn’t shy away from anyone.

          • mchenske4 says:

            We’ll see I guess…. 🙂

  42. DipsyDoodler says:

    Fun with stats.

    Here are the top ten shot blockers for 2013-14 with their CorsiRel and Corsi. Corsi is the differential in shots towards goal, and CorsiRel is that number relative to the rest of the team.

    A MacDonald -17.8 -11.4
    C Butler -13.5 -16.4
    K Russel -6.8 -13.7
    A Markov +9.7 -1.2
    J Carlson -3.0 -6.8
    J Gorges -4.6 -10.4
    C Gunnarsson -10.6 -23.0
    D Girardi -9.2 -0.4
    N Grossman -10.6 -7.0
    S Weber -1.9 -5.0

    What you see is that, with the exception of Markov, all the best shot blockers are poor possession players. Apart from Markov, all ten players were in either the worst or second worst possession d-man on their team.


    Obviously the quality of the competition comes into play, which might explain Weber’s numbers. Second, the blocked shots count in the Corsi. It would be better perhaps to use a measure of shots toward goal minus blocked shots.

    Nonetheless this supports my contention that, by and large, defencemen who block shots do so because they’re bad defencemen.

    Blocking shots isn’t a skill: you just need to stand in the way (just go to any airport, all humans are very good at it). You’re blocking shots because you are (1) giving the puck away and (2) under constant pressure in your own zone.

    Shot blocking is a hint that you are probably a bad defenceman.

    (Marky excepted)



    • Luke says:

      What’s also interesting is that the majority of the teams with the ‘best shot blockers’ missed the playoffs.

      Basically, if you don’t have the puck, they get more shots.
      If they get more shots, you tend to lose more than you win.

    • courneya12mac 1 says:

      Pk and others on this team are better than , Georges ever was , because they have the puck…most of the time ..Georges not so much. that’s why he was always blocking shots

    • bwoar says:

      Thanks for that! I’ve always hated the argument that a guy is a “champion shot blocker” and that it somehow made them an amazing defensive asset. Players block shots because they lack the skills to take back the damn puck.

      Gill-Gorges…. the best of times, the worst of times….

    • Chris says:

      I don’t think we can infer that defencemen that block shots are bad defencemen, only that they play on teams that are more often than not having the play taken to them.

      Andrei Markov is a very good positional defender, with excellent anticipation and a strong knack for getting between his defender and the puck. His experience has allowed him to become a premier shot blocker, as he seems to be very good at getting into the shooting lane without resorting to lying on the ice for half his shift.

      Shea Weber and Daniel Girardi are two of the strongest defenders in the NHL. Both are physically strong players who have excellent defensive zone positioning. Girardi brings nothing else to the table, but he is a very smart defenceman. His defence partner, Ryan McDonagh, is one of the top defenders in the NHL due to his combination of speed, strength and positioning. He is also an exceptional shot blocker.

      I agree that some of those guys block a lot of shots simply because they spend their entire shift in their own zone. But some of the guys are simply very good at getting in the way.

      Does anybody happen to know if deflected shots count as shot blocks, especially the ones that go out of play? Realistically, they should…and this is one area where the best defencemen tend to be so much better than the rest of the pack. Their hand-eye coordination and timing allows them to get a stick in there just in time to ruin the shot. Markov is particularly adept at that play.

      • DipsyDoodler says:

        “I don’t think we can infer that defencemen that block shots are bad defencemen, only that they play on teams that are more often than not having the play taken to them.”

        That is possible but the data argue otherwise.

        9 of the 10 d-men listed were the worst possession players on their team. In other words, their teams had the play taken to them especially when they were on the ice.

        So the bad numbers can hardly be attributed to playing on a bad team.


    • mchenske4 says:

      We’ll see I guess 🙂

  43. Steeltown Hab says:

    Actually hilarious how the laziest player I’ve ever watched who was an example for no one comes out n criticizes Subban.

    Gainey legitimately told Kovalev to stay home during a road trip because he was that uninterested on the ice. Anyways I highly doubt he’s seen that many Habs games and it’s purely out of jealousy of the contracts players are getting nowadays.


    Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Emelin, Bournival, De La Rose – @J_Perez22

  44. Habanero78 says:

    You want the money and the adulation? Sorry but the criticism will come too…

    Kovalev did love the Habs and could have said this on the idea as well to challenge Subban to play a more defensively sound game. Or ya he’s just bitter… haha.

    Even if Kovy was a 100% correct this is 2014 you can’t call a spade a spade. Criticism is never constructive we have to hug people to make them better…

  45. HabinBurlington says:

    All you need to read about Bertuzzi/Moore is in this link, including a pretty good read from George Malik on Bertuzzi the player and human being he got to know in his time in Detroit.


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