After picking up eight of a possible 10 points on their five-game road trip, which wrapped up with Sunday’s 5-2 win over the Panthers, the Canadiens held their rookie dinner Sunday night in Florida before flying back home on Monday.
Rookies Alex Galchenyuk and Brendan Gallagher will no doubt be a little lighter in their wallets after picking up the tab. The Canadiens will have the day off Monday to recover before hitting the ice Tuesday at 11 a.m. in Brossard as they prepare to face the Ottawa Senators Wednesday night at the Bell Centre (7 p.m., TSN, RDS, TSN 690 Radio).
As Arpon Basu of NHL.com noted on Twitter, the Canadiens now have 17 wins in 26 games. Last season it took them 45 games to get their 17th win.
(Photo by Joel Auerbach, Getty Images)
Ryder salts away win over Panthers, by Dave Stubbs
In the room: White takes it on the chin, by Dave Stubbs
How far can Habs go? by Jack Todd
Prust lost for 10 days, by Dave Stubbs
Photo gallery: Canadiens vs. Panthers
Bouillon will make blooper videos with own goal, by Stu Cowan
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The NHL network doesn’t give us much credit or recognition. They ranked the Habs 5th on the power rankings behind Anahiem, Chicago, Boston and Pittsburgh. First in the east and still can’t get any respect sheesh.
Price and Subban made all-star team Canada.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/03/what-if-there-were-some-all-star-festivities-this-year.html
on the other hand, Warnsby is an idiot.
…I just voted I am convinced the Montreal Canadiens CAN finish in first place this season
…but surprised I am in the minority by close to 500 votes
…now, if the question was do You think the Montreal Canadiens WILL be in first place at seasons end ? …well, THAT is a completely different kettle of fish
…I believe We are capable of finishing in first …if all Our Stars are aligned, so to speak
…therefore CAN is the legitimate operative word
Rene Bourque is skating today.
I skated yesterday, don’t see plastered all over the news everywhere.
fine… TIMO SKATED YESTERDAY D:
http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/
LOL
That’s good news about Bourque though any time table?
http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/
Laffs are in Winnipeg tonight.
If they lose and Scrivens or Reimer gets lit up in the process,look for a trade with the Canucks involving Luongo shortly thereafter.
@goodhabit. I loved watching Chris Stewart and his brother Anthony play when they were with the Frontenacs.Man,those were the days ,when we actually won a few games.
Supposedly Chris Stewart might be available because the Blues have too many RFAs to sign. That is a deal I would consider making…
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
Good point re: the Blues’ RFA issues moving forward.
I was surprised when the Avalanche moved Stewart. I figure the St. Louis is pretty happy with Shattenkirk, as well!
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Wedding Crashers Rule #71: No excuses. Play like a champion!
The case for Subban for the Norris.
In 20 games…..
13 goals against at even strength
18 points
6 goals leading the league among defensemen
The only defenseman in the league who comes close to Subban in the goals against per game at even strength is Slava Voynov.
I like that we are debating something like this especially since we idn’t lose last game not as much doom and gloom.
http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/
Yep, but those are not the stats that the voters will look at. He doesn’t play enough penalty kill time to be a serious candidate.
I think he’s great, and trophies are largely PR events anyways. But he’s not really in contention at this point of the season.
Habs are 15th in penalty kill.
might be time to use Subban more often?
I agree. I really don’t know what Therrien’s aversion to using Subban is. Subban was very, very good in that role last season.
Hey here’s an idea for Buttman. After the first round of shootouts if it is still tied,then have a hardest shot contest,or fastest player once around the rink.Then everyone can exchange their sweaty clothing..Un frikkin believable!
How about have the players skate backwards after the 1st round?
Have the goons fight for the win?
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
How about a mascot fight?!
GSP could train Youppi!
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Wedding Crashers Rule #71: No excuses. Play like a champion!
LOL….Let’s get ready to TUMBLLLLLLE!
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
We’re debating PK versus Letang and they might not even make the Olympic team…
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
Letang will absolutely be at the Olympics, if only because of his familiarity with Crosby. Letang is an absolutely wonderful hockey player and I think he’s a lock for a top-6 role at the Olympics.
Agreed I think letang is a lock. Right now the projected roster on tsn has the d as Letang, Weber, Doughty, Staal, Del Zotto and Pietrangelo. The first 4 I agree with. I think PK is better all round than both Del Zotto and Pietrangelo. If his play continues he will be invited to play for Canada IMO
Any news from the practice? I am THAT bored I will even consider reading about practice lines.
MAB is STILL out.
J-F Chaumont @JFChaumont
#Habs: Rene Bourque a patinée une bonne heure ce matin avec un membre du personnel médical du CH.
Bourque skated for an hour with one of the medical staff.
Hopefully for him it was a sexy female nurse from the medical staff.
——–
Wedding Crashers Rule #71: No excuses. Play like a champion!
I’m hoping that Prust has some of Pacioretty’s recuperative powers and returns to the lineup sooner than expected.
Dave Stubbs @Dave_Stubbs
#Habs Prust wasn’t in a sling at Sunday game in Sunrise so he’s mending from 1st-degree shoulder separation. Expected out til next week
It would be great if Pacioretty used the same healing technique that Mr. Miyagi used in the Karate Kid movies. He’d simply need to rub his hands together then apply his healing powers to his teammate’s injured areas.
Things could get awkward if somebody had a groin injury though.
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Wedding Crashers Rule #71: No excuses. Play like a champion!
Who cares about the Norris, or whatever. Let players from other teams win those, for all I care. The ONLY trophy that matters is the one with the big silver bowl on the top.
___________________________________________________
Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.
Exactly.
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
Subban* – 6/12/18/+4/$2M
Myers – 3/1/4/-6/$!2M
Doughty – 0/10/10/-1/$6M
Pieterangelo -5/12/17/-6/$3.1M with bonuses.
* Subban has played four less games than the other three players.
Say what you want. In all fairness to Boston. They have played the least games in the eastern conference and stands 1-point out of 1st place. Taking this into consideration. Right now they’re the best team in the east.
Agreed.
Montreal’s best hope is to finish 4th or 5th. They then go up against a team in the first round that isn’t Boston or Pittsburgh. Maybe even finish 6th and play Carolina in the first round.
On Norris Trophy voting…
In my opinion, there are 16 contenders for the Norris Trophy, although arguments could be made for Dan Hamhuis, Marc Staal or Ryan McDonagh because of their defensive play and Keith Yandle or Slava Voynov for their offence. Historically, and I know the stats guys at other sites will lose their minds over this, the numbers that get bandied about when assessing defencemen are goals, points, +/-, time on ice and short-handed time on ice. Here’s how the contenders stack up.
Goals:
P.K. Subban – 6
Alex Pietrangelo – 5
Andrei Markov – 5
Alexander Edler – 4
Brent Seabrook – 4
Zdeno Chara – 4
Kris Letang – 3
Oliver Ekman-Larsson – 3
Niklas Kronwall – 3
Kimmo Timonen – 3
Shea Weber – 3
Kevin Shattenkirk – 2
Francois Beauchemin – 2
Duncan Keith – 1
Ryan Suter – 1
Drew Doughty – 0
Points:
Kris Letang – 23
Kimmo Timonen – 19
Kevin Shattenkirk – 19
P.K. Subban – 18
Niklas Kronwall – 18
Alex Pietrangelo – 17
Ryan Suter – 17
Oliver Ekman-Larsson – 17
Andrei Markov – 17
Francois Beauchemin – 16
Duncan Keith – 13
Alexander Edler – 13
Shea Weber – 12
Brent Seabrook – 11
Zdeno Chara – 10
Drew Doughty – 10
Time on Ice:
Ryan Suter – 27:29
Drew Doughty – 26:18
Kris Letang – 26:09
Alex Pietrangelo – 25:59
Shea Weber – 25:45
Oliver Ekman-Larsson – 25:13
Zdero Chara – 24:42
Andrei Markov – 24:26
Niklas Kronwall – 24:05
Alexander Edler – 23:59
Duncan Keith – 23:56
Francois Beauchemin – 23:34
Brent Seabrook – 22:58
Kevin Shattenkirk – 22:06
P.K. Subban – 21:40
Kimmo Timonen – 21:07
Short-Handed Time on Ice:
Zdero Chara – 3:44
Alex Pietrangelo – 3:25
Oliver Ekman-Larsson – 3:05
Francois Beauchemin – 3:04
Niklas Kronwall – 2:42
Brent Seabrook – 2:39
Drew Doughty – 2:30
Kris Letang – 2:27
Duncan Keith – 2:24
Ryan Suter – 2:24
Andrei Markov – 2:24
Kevin Shattenkirk – 2:22
Kimmo Timonen – 2:19
Shea Weber – 2:10
Alexander Edler – 2:06
P.K. Subban – 1:04
Plus-Minus
Francois Beauchemin – +17
Zdeno Chara – +12
Kris Letang – +10
Oliver Ekman-Larsson – +7
Shea Weber – +6
P.K. Subban – +4
Duncan Keith – +2
Brent Seabrook – +2
Kimmo Timonen – E
Andrei Markov – E
Drew Doughty – -1
Kevin Shattenkirk – -1
Niklas Kronwall – -5
Alexander Edler – -5
Ryan Suter – -6
Alex Pietrangelo – -6
If P.K. Subban doesn’t get much love for the Norris Trophy this season, it will largely because of his pedestrian rankings in time on ice and the fact that Therrien is not using him on the penalty kill. Finishing dead last in that category is what will hurt his chances, and that one is solely on Therrien. I don’t get his unwillingness to play Subban on the penalty kill, where Subban did very well last season.
Right now, I would say that the the leading candidates at the halfway pole are Beauchemin, Ekman-Larsson, Letang and Pietrangelo, although the latter’s +/- will hurt him badly. Subban is moving up the list, but his time on ice needs to increase dramatically before the voters take him seriously, especially when the disdain for Subban outside of Montreal is factored in. I don’t really get the disdain, but it is there and it will hurt Subban.
Weber and Chara will be in the mix because of name recognition and, in Weber’s case, the fact that their game is now rounding into top form after a slow start to this strange season.
Not only is Pietrangelo’s plus/minus bad, but it’s actually one of those rare occasions when that stat isn’t lying.
Darren Pang’s man crush has been dreadful defensively. He’s been on the wrong end of a lot of highlight reels and has been routinely corkscrewed into the ice in front of his own net and at his blueline.
Kronwall is the opposite case…his +/- is not at all representative of his defensive prowess. Kronwall is an elite defenceman who has filled Nicklas Lidstrom’s shoes very admirably, if that is possible.
I agree. Love Kronwall.
Seven weeks left. If MT keeps playing PK 25-27 minutes/games like recently, his numbers will improve even more. I’m surprised Chara’s name is not mentioned more. Isn’t he arguably the best shutdown defenceman in the NHL? We’ll see tonight…
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
In my opinion Chara and Weber are the two best defensemen in the league and #3 isn’t even close.
Fantastic breakdown Chris. Thanks for taking the time to post this. Have to agree that without more minutes PK will not get serious consideration for the Norris and that is on Therrien. However, since the Diaz injury PK has been playing 24-26 min a game and has seen his PK time increase as well. If the trend continues he will be among the leaders in ice time as well as points and plus minus. If that I the case he will be a very strong candidate. He’s currently on pace for 13 goals and 38 points in 42 games (prorated over 82 games that is 24 goals and 74 points) those are the kind of numbers that won Karlsson a Norris.
Chris – No one is really jumping out ahead of the pack.
Acknowledging Subban is fine, but it’s also great to see Markov’s stats are up there with the best of the rest. Markov’s play is a big part of the resurgence.
I agree whole-heartedly. Markov has been sneaky good this season. He’s been routinely showing up on the highlight reels when other teams score goals, but that is often because he is out there against the best of the best. Stamkos, Crosby, Giroux, Tavares…if the teams are not balanced (like Boston, who have #1A and #1B lines), Markov/Emelin are the pairing that are out there the most against the big guns.
I actually think Markov has been better of late as well…I’m seeing less of his dives. I think he’s getting his defensive timing and positioning back. The speed is obviously an issue, and that will probably never come back, but he thinks the game better than any Montreal Canadiens player. His hockey IQ is ridiculous.
I think Emelin deserves a lot of credit too. Playing with Markov obviously makes him look better, as it did for Mike Komisarek and various other guys before him, but Emelin and Markov are a good pairing. Emelin is gaining confidence (much like Eller up front) and is starting to show more flashes of the offensive skill that he showed in Russia. He was playing a very simple game last season, but he’s starting to ramp up the degree of difficulty as he gains confidence.
And the thing I love about Emelin –> 522 minutes on the ice playing against the best of the best and playing a very physical game, yet he has only earned 5 minor penalties all season. That is absolutely astounding given his style of play.
Patches should not have gotten the Masterton because he was seen in a movie theater that one time!
In his defense he didn’t know because Dr. Recchi provided his invaluable advice AFTER he went to the movie theater, not before.
Anyone else tired of the St-Hubert add?
http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/
For the “Subban shouldn’t be considered for the Norris” crowd.
Winning the Norris doesn’t make a player the best defenseman in the game. It makes them the award winner and the publicly recognized best defenseman for that season.
As things stand today, I don’t know how it could be argued that Subban shouldn’t be considered. Things can change, but as of this moment he’s among the league’s top three defensemen in my opinion.
Agreed, but the only person saying that here is rat13. And who knows… He may be Rat Marchand’s troll!
The Norris should go to the best defensive d-man. They should have a Bobbby Orr award for the top scoring d-man (and yes, PP points would count).
Disagree. Being good with the puck is an integral part of being a defenseman.
I always felt that guys like Langway, Awrey, Gorges were under-valued and under-appreciated, while guys like Mike Green were over-valued.
Agree that the award should maybe be split for best offensive and defensive d-man now. While guys like Lidstrom are all around to many guys who don’t get a lot of points aren’t recognized as great D when they actually are
http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/
There’s a fine line there. I prefer guys like Weber, Chara(yeah I know), Doughty and Keith who are great in all areas of the game.
Or, what I believe Subban is turning into.
Guys like Dan Girardi and Josh Gorges are fine when you’re going into a shell but otherwise get exposed in front of their own nets and when the puck is on their sticks.
Karlsson won the Norris last year. No one kid themselves to believe he was the best defensive defensemen in the NHL last year. He was far and away the best offensive minded dman though.
“I think I may have found a way to get us Bonds and Griffey, and we really wouldn’t give up that much” – Costanza
I think that is a good idea. Defensive d-men often don’t get a chance at the Norris. It makes sense too as there is a Hart (and/or Art Ross) and a Selke trophy. The Hart can go to D-men and goalies, but it is uncommon.
Lidstrom, Chara, Weber.
All great defensively.
You know the guy that brought it up is a Boston fan right?
Look at his profile.
Last thing I will say on the subject. Subban is the best PP defensemen in the league. He is not in the top 60 scoring defensemen in the league at even strength. His PK time is 6th on his own team among defensemen, presumably because his defensive value is not as high as the others. If that makes him the Norris Trophy winner or a candidate so be it.
rat13
If PK keeps playing like he is and we keep winning, I can’t see how he is not a Norris candidate. He probably won’t win but he should be in consideration.
There is no “chuck” in Galchenyuk.
Interesting ringette move by Daugavins last night. I’m somewhat surprised this hasn’t been tried by someone else previously.
Having said that, I think it’s only a matter of time before the NHL bans it.
The NHL will not prohibit a shootout move that is both currently legal and provides great entertainment value.
Sean Avery’s tactics of screening Martin Brodeur were completely within the rules at the time as well. However, the NHL quickly changed the rules so similar actions would no longer be permitted.
The problem with Avery’s and Daugavins’ actions on the ice is that,if left unchecked,threaten to turn the game into a farce.
Daugavins’ move was not a farce. It was a creative attempt to score in a shootout, a skills competition… good for talented players to try something new.
I saw a SO between Detroit and Columbus, and all the Detroit shooters just shot. CBJ players made some good moves and scored.
It’s a terrible way to decide a game, but when you get to the SO you might as well try to fool the goalie with a skill move.
Then,during a shoot out,why not simply scoop up the puck with the blade of the stick at centre ice, skate with it this way to the front of the net,and boomerang it towards the goalie? I believe this move is legal as well right now.
The point I’m trying to make is that if these plays were sanctioned by the NHL,the league would become a laughing stock.
I’m not sure I agree with you, but I get what you’re trying to say.
In a shootout, so long as you stick to the rules, then players should be able to be creative and score goals – that’s part of the point.
During normal play, if any player gets the time and space to pull off a move as you say, then…. the other team is made to look bad, but why shouldn’t skilled players make certain moves, so long as they are within the rules?
They will not ban it because it is a useless move. Any decent goalie will know that they are unable to lift the puck and if the goalie just covers the net along the ice the player cannot score.
Ban it?? Are you crazy? I expect that soon you’ll get an extra style point for scoring a goal without actually having to shoot the puck.
Rumor has it that next year, sunglasses and a cape will be mandatory for the shootout!
I heard the hockey beat writer for the Winnipeg Free Press on the FAN this morning.
He feels if the Jets become sellers then pending UFA’s Hainsey and Antropov are available.
If size matters…
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“It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”
would you really want those two?
http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/
Yeah, they might be the smallest big players in the league..
Chris Stewart and Ryan Clowe are the two we should be looking at. We would have to pay more for Stewart, but he brings more to the table long term. Clowe’s value is low right now and he could probably be acquired for a secondary prospect or a third rounder.
Saw the new cover for Sports illustrated
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151693168061055&set=a.268173666054.182611.178835736054&type=1&theater
Although how they have been playing is amazing until they win the cup at the end of the season, I don’t think they should be “The Franchise” just yet although its great for the states,
http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/
“The NHL was all but dead”? Says who? Anyway, if a Canadian team did the same thing, I am sure they would be on the cover too…yeah right.
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
Have they never heard of the Sports Illustrated cover jinx? The Hawks are now doomed!
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Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.
Lol… what?
Sports Illustrated and ESPN, or American major sports media for that matter.. don’t know squat about hockey.
Hockey was… dead? Not in Canada or any real NHL city.
And there is only one Franchise. We all know that’s the CH.
That’s pretty much it any Canadian or proper American market IE Boston New York Detroit Chicago Minnesota etc. all know its still alive
http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/
Hard to read some of the ridiculous comments regarding PK. When the rest of the league, not to mention some pretty knowledgeable hockey analysts, say we have a Norris trophy type player on our team, why can’t we just enjoy the ride. The haters are digging deep these days.
Yeah it’s pretty ridiculous. People are always looking for ways to put PK down. Last year a lot were shitting on him for missing the net or shooting into oncoming defenders from the point on the PP. this year he fixed that problem, has been lethal with his shot and some people say he isn’t a top dman because he has more pp points than even strength. What’s next???
The person posting that stuff is a Buffoons fan…. so don’t worry about. Fans of actual hockey know PK is the bomb-diggity. I live in Laff land and everyone was telling me they hope PK signed there. Basically fans from every team were hoping MB screwed up the negotiations.
I didn’t know he was a fan of the Goons. He spelled most of his words correctly, that’s what threw me off. All I know is that it’s been years since we’ve had a team like this one to cheer on, so I’m just going to sit back and enjoy it while it lasts.
Lmao yeah illiteracy is usually a dead give away when bruins fans are posting!
This shootout is becoming a joke. They call it professional hockey ????????
Alright Hockey Fans put up a new Article! This one is about Ovie, but check out the picture I posted with it! Hope you like it!
http://nickolaisblog.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/has-ovie-lost-his-magic/
That’s what happens when you’re set for life Money Money Money
No need to work hard, No need to care and what can they do. Nothing.
I guess what is why Crosby still gives it his all! And Malkin, and Markov, and Parise, etc. etc.
Trading Ovi… Could be the solution if they don’t play to his strengths. I agree with you that the Caps are too focused on a D style instead of using their best players in what they are best at.
No. Much of his current value is because of his PP numbers. If you are talking about the Norris Trophy, all around value needs to be mentioned. I doubt among voters he is among the top 10 Candidates right now.
Chris made a valid point early on this thread, regarding his limited minutes earlier in the season. If he continues to score at this torrid pace all the while playing big and important minutes for this team, there is no way he doesn’t enter the Norris trophy discussion, regardless of pp or even strength scoring.
“Much of his current value is because of his PP numbers”…says who? You? Please name 9 other candidates.
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
Kris Letang has 3 goals total all even strength, PK has 6 goals only 2 even strength. I am guessing this makes Letang approximately 33% better player than PK.
How much better is Gomez compared to Clowe then?
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
That is a totally inaccurate statement. He may have been reintegrated slowly but since Diaz has gone down PK has been playing #1 d minutes. He is relied upon to shut down other teams top players and kill penalties. You are acting as if PK is MAB. He is a 1st pairing dman relied upon in all facets of the game and he happens to be a lethal PP weapon that is a plus not a detraction.
Subban’s ice time breaks down as follows:
PP time – 4:31 a game
SH time – 1:04 a game
ES time – 16:05 a game
Nothing about those numbers indicate a shut down defensemen that kills penalties. According to more advanced metrics I do not see him matching up with #1 lines like other top D – men but I could be wrong there.
He ranks 124th among defensemen in Even strength minutes.
rat13
Guess you weren’t watching last season when he proved capable of shutting down the oppositions’ best lines.
This season’s coaching staff is much more intelligent apparently as they do not have Subban killing penalties (at least he is sixth on the team for defensemen).rat13
Rat stop spreading lies. He is sixth I total minutes because of missing 6 games. He is second on the team in average PK ice time per game. Do you even watch the games or do you just look at the scores. Subban is on the top pk unit with gorges
Lies? He is SIXTH this year in average PK time per game. Behind Gorges, Markov, Emelin, Diaz and Boullion. Obviously, the coaching staff feels the other players are better defensively on the PK than Subban.
rat13
I know I addressed this below but once again I apologize I was looking at the wrong year and was conviced you were looking at the wrong stats. I understand your argument in terms of ice time hurting his Norris candidacy. A lot of it has to do with therrien easing pk in. He was playing 3rd pairing minutes until Diaz got hurt. Since the injury though PK has taken over as the #1 and has been playing in every situation. By the end of the season he will be amongst the leaders on the team in PK ice time IMO
Get your facts straight man. PK averages just over 18 min per game even strength and 3:30 a game on the PP. Letang averages 19 min a game even strength and 4 min on the PP. where the minutes really differ is the PK. Sub an averages 2:30 on the PK and Letang only 1:30. To me that shows that PK is more reliable defensively. Letang is 4th on his team for PK time whereas PK is second on his team.
The things stats reveal are enticing. However, like a bikini, what they conceal are vital.
PK continues playing as he is right now and he will be considered. Will he win? Probably not, seeing as most all of these awards are mainly popularity contests among hockey writers.
That is a good point cal. However rat has his stats wrong and in this case the stats as well as what they don’t show are both in PK’s favor. He is averaging big minutes even strength, slightly less pp time than letting but significantly more PK time. Subban is on our top PK unit, letang is 4th on the team for PK minutes and is not relied upon as a shutdown guy.
The stats i was using was 2013.
rat13
My apologies rat I hadn’t noticed I was looking at the wrong year! However since diaz has gone down PK has taken his spot on the top PK unit. That was my mistake looking at the wrong year, I’m sorry!
LizardKing12 – No problem. No question, Subban is a very good player. Probably a candidate for Team Canada at the next Olympics. I just do not see him as a top candidate for the Norris Trophy based on his numbers.
rat13
His value is that he’s our best and most versatile defenseman. He as you say is highly effective on the powerplay, he’s excellent at even strength, specifically with protecting the puck and finding the open ice both in getting out of his own end and in transition. He’s physical and wins battles for the puck.
He has flaws like holding the puck too long and occasionally taking himself out of position to make a hit. But both of those problems go away with experience.
His effectiveness isn’t limited to the powerplay at all.
I am not saying he is not a good player. I am saying he is not a Norris candidate.
rat13
Your argument has little logic in my opinion. Since there’s a direct correlation between good special teams and good teams, powerplay points are an integral part of what makes a good team and player.
I understand the entertainment value of the shootout but it is wrong to have some games worth 3 points and some worth 2. This is what creates this artificial parity that is so prevalent in the NHL.
I would like to see what the standings would look like if teams were awarded 3 points for a regulation win, 2 points for a OT/shoot-out win, 1 point for a OT/shoot-out loss. A team’s position in the standings would be much more accutate to their skill level and the league could still have this entertaining gimmick.
However, the NHL and its fans love a close playoff race, artificial or not. That fact that teams can hang on to playoff dreams much longer than they should is something the NHL will never get rid of.
How about making it simple… no points for a loss.
Only if they play to the end like the NBA…
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
Yes – only if they played to the end. It would put far too much weight on the shoot out.
If they would just extend overtime by 5 minutes of 3 on 3 or even just do 10 minutes of 4 on 4, the amount of shootouts would dwindle.
At least that would be a start.
That is my biggest complaint, it simply makes no sense to have games worth more points than other, when a league uses points to determine playoff teams.
If they are going to award a point for a shootout, why not have one after EVERY game? Personally, I think it should be eliminated but if there must be a shootout why favor the teams that have tied by giving them a chance for an extra point over a team that has won in regulation?
I dont see why a contest that has a “prize” of two points to be awarded to the winner should be followed only in certain situations (when it is tied) by a second contest (Ot and SO) offering one additional point to the winner. It would make just as much sense to have a 5 minute overtime followed by a shootout after a game ends with a regulation win.
To make it even more exciting why not take a page from the roller derby? After the men finish their game (worth two points in the standings) why not have each team field a womens team to play for the “extra” point?
Lingerie hockey anyone? Ringuette, perhaps?
regards,
Steve O.
Another UFA defenseman from Buffalo. Would Bergevin have any interest in this guy? Is he an upgrade over anyone in our top 6 on defense? At the right price?
Jordan Leopold #3 – D
Buffalo
Age: 32
DOB: 1980/08/03
POB: Golden Valley, MN
Height: 6-1 Weight: 206lbs
Shoots: L
Average Ice Time: 21:15
Here’s a philosphical question regarding Daugavins shootout attempt:
“Is it possible to make a mockery of something that is a mockery to begin with?”
Absolutely loved that shootout attempt last night, he got awfully close! Please keep in mind 2 other shooters failed in their traditional shootout attempts (Aldresson & Silfverberg).
Can’t stand the old boys climb bitching about nothing. If it’s within the rules keep your mouth shut and stop whining, especially when he came as close as he did. I guess people would have been happier had he skated in and wristed the puck wide of the net…sigh.
Had he scored he’s a hero (but unfortunately still probably vilified for being creative). If it ended up not counting as a result of losing forward momentum, then I can understand the hand wringing – especially from his teammates.
Yeah, I agree with the old boys getting their proverbial (or literal, who knows…) panties in a twist because a player tried to be creative in a shootout. If you don’t want those moves, don’t let a game be decided by a skills competition!
Is the shootout a mockery of the game? It highlights the skills of players, so it’s a good showcase of talent, but it’s not a fair way to decide a game. That being said, creative moves by talented players are not a mockery but a celebration of the skill it takes to play hockey at that level.
Completely agree on everything.
I don’t like the shootout deciding the outcome of a game and I don’t like the 3 point games, but your point, re: celebration of skill and individual talent, is well taken.
The ringuette move in the shootout .
1) I thought that it would be illegal even if he score. The definitely went backwards when he spun around. (is that allowed now?)
2) Its a stupid move. There is no way he could lift the puck, the goalie can simply lie down across the crease a la Hal Gill or attack the shooter with an aggressive poke check. The chances of scoring on that type of move, in my opinion, is about one in 50. Save it for the all star game.
regards,
Steve O.
The legalities of shoot out moves is getting very blurry, between the near stand still approach of Kane, to the spinorama’s being used by others, I no longer have a clue what is legal and what isn’t.
Given it seems here to stay, I wonder if perhaps they should just say, okay from the time you touch the puck at center ice you have 6 seconds to get your shot over the goal line. And let the player do whatever they want.
Stupid Soccer shootouts.What’s next,players exchanging their jerseys after the game?Disgusting.
What’s wrong with that, front?
It creates more respect between the players of other teams, that’s probably what the game needs to stop these stupid headshots and bad hits that are a product of a lack of regard for the safety of others.
Oleg Petrov!
Trying to score in a shootout in the NHL not the AHL with a Ringette shot.
Could you imagine the media/fans comments if PK would have attempted something like that?
He would be drawn and quartered. Literally.
Subban is not a Norris Candidate because his offensive production is based almost solely on the PP. He has 5 even strength points, which does not rank him in the top 60 among defensemen. The fact that the Canadiens have so much more PP time relative to SH time is the basis for his offensive numbers. When you compare him to Letang who has 20 even strength points or Ekman-Larsson who has 13 you realize he is not close.
Odd, I didn’t know that even strength points determined the Norris trophy, thanks for the info.
PP goals count the same as even strength goals.
I’m sorry?
Because just over one quarter of Subban’s points come at even strength he shouldn’t be considered among the league’s best defensemen?
Disagree. A Norris candidate primarily plays defense and has a high TOI (>25 minutes/game). Subban has been doing that since the Diaz injury. It is not his fault MT did not play him more earlier. Points are points, wherever they come from. If you want to nitpick, do you realize who Letang plays with? You don’t think playing with Crosby, Malkin, Neal etc. helps his numbers? Regardless, Letang is not good defensively. PK is easily better than him defensively.
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
Letang is not good defensively is a ridiculous comment.
He’s been on the ice for 21 even strength goals in 23 games. That isn’t close to poor on a team that’s surrendered a lot of goals thus far.
Okay…but he is definitely not great defensively. If a puck is dumped into a corner and I had to pick between him and PK to come out with it…I would pick PK.
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
So would I but Subban being better doesn’t make Letang bad.
Agree. Curiously, how do you compare Letang to Mike Green when he won the Norris? A little similar no?
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
Mike Green hasn’t won a Norris trophy. He was nominated.
Sorry confused with Karlsson..
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
Letang is da poop in his own end.
That’s the narrative I’m sticking with.
Exactly, if PK is going to lose credit for a Norris candidacy because most of his points come on the PP then Letang should lose some credit because he gets to play with the 2 best players in the world! Points are points can’t see this being a legitimate detraction.
I had a feeling Bobby Orr’s eight Norris trophies were unwarranted. Thanks for setting us straight.
Sorry, I replied in the wrong spot. Subban’s ice time is inflated because of PP time. I am not saying Letang will win the award, but nobody is going to pick Subban over him. Letang is +10. When was the last time a Norris Trophy winner or even a candidate had such a lopsided PP to even strength ratio. Even Mike Green piled up even strength points. Bobby Orr was annually between +70 and +120, so I guess he was okay at even strength.
Get your facts straight man. PK averages just over 18 min per game even strength and 3:30 a game on the PP. Letang averages 19 min a game even strength and 4 min on the PP. where the minutes really differ is the PK. Sub an averages 2:30 on the PK and Letang only 1:30. To me that shows that PK is more reliable defensively. Letang is 4th on his team for PK time whereas PK is second on his team.
Where are you getting those stats?
rat13
Subban ranks 6th among Habs defensemen in PK time.
rat13
@rat13
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20122MTLDADALL&sort=avgShortHandedTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce (habs d ice time)
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20122PITDADALL&sort=avgShortHandedTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce (pens d ice time)
PK is behind in total minutes because he missed 6 games. His average pk min per game is second on the team.
Nice try, but thanks for proving my point. The stats you are referencing are LAST YEAR. When the coaching staff thought Subban’s value was equal offensively and defensively. This years much more intelligent coaching staff feels Subban is the team’s sixth best defensemen on the penalty kill
rat13
Huh? That same argument applies to Letang.
And if you’re going to argue about inflated stats, well Letang plays with Crosby and Malkin on a team that scores lots of goals…
Which counts more offense or defense?
Letang has played 437 minutes of even strength time on ice. He has been on for 31 goals for and 21 goals against. The averages are one goal scored every 14 minutes and one goal allowed every 21 minutes,
Subban has played 321 minutes of even strength hockey. The Habs have scored 17 goals during that span and have allowed 13 . the averages are one goalscored every 18 minutes, and one goal allowed every 24 minutes. So ineven strength situations Subban is “better” than Letang defnsively 24 min per GA versus 21, and Letang is better offensively 14 min per GF versus 18.
let’s look at Beauchemin. He has played 443 minutes, being on teh ice for 11 goals against and 28 goals scored.
His averages are one goal scored every 16 minutes ( right between Subban and Letang, and one goal allowed every 40 minutes. Significantly better than both Subban and Letang.
If the Norris is awarded on merit. Beauchemin should get the prize, hands down.
regards,
Steve O.
The unfortunate thing about the Norris is that like the other awards it goes to the “sexy” pick and most nominees are so because they’re household names.
It’s very unfortunate.
I believe that team chemistry is the leading factor in what has been a great first half. Stand pat! If there are injuries bring up players from the farm. Don’t tinker!
You can’t be both a Habs and a Leafs fan
Myself if we are healthy I would go to the playoffs with what we have. Why get rid of anyone. Every player on this team worked hard to be where they’re at and they deserve to stay together win or lose.
Having said that. The 4th line is the only line I would think about tinkering with. Not saying I’m going to but. If I could add toughness and points to that line. I would. Nothing like having 4-good lines to roll in the playoffs …..
Like to have “playable” reserves…not Nokia, Weber and Kaberle. Especially for 4th line so if White, Moen or Army takes a night off they can be replaced.
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
Nokelainen and Kaberle are great insurance policies in my opinion.
It is a luxury to have players with that much NHL experience in the press box. However, something tells me Therrien isn’t comfortable having Kaberle in the lineup. If he was happy with his play I doubt they would’ve given Pateryn an opportunity to play. Bergevin will look to add some depth on d. If someone like Regehr is available for a reasonable price I think MB pulls the trigger
Could be using a more subtle tactic than they did with Gomez. Protecting against Kaberle getting hurt so they can buy him out in June.
That is also a possibility. Either way it means they would rather not have Kaberle on the ice. D depth is important come playoff time. Can never have too many NHL quality dmen! If there is one move I’d like to see at the deadline it would be for another defenseman.
Here is the link to hear MacLeans post game reaction to Daugavins and the penalty shot. I suppose when watching the full interview in context he isn’t really taking a shot at the kid, but it is curious.
http://video.senators.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=218103&lang=en
I like what Daugavins did because I believed that the shooter had to begin the shootout attempt without the puck on his stick. If anyone has a problem with it their issue is more with the shootout than how the shot is taken in my opinion.
Funny enough I don’t have a problem with what the player did but don’t approve of the shootout deciding important points.
All the goalie has to do is cover the bottom of the net. He ain’t shooting high.
Thats the first thing I thought when I saw him, lay down and cover the ice. By Rask just doing the splits, the save became rather routine.
Timing is everything. Wouldn’t have taken much for Daugevins to flip the puck if he saw the goalie sprawl.
The guy who does the color commentary for Boston games is such a douchebag. When Chara was holding Latendresse against the boards last night and Gui tried to get a call from the ref’s, the homer announcer actually said:
“I guess once a canadien, always a canadien!”
Seriously? 5 games later and he’s still sore about the loss. In this guy’s mind no team can beat the BS without cheating.
would that have been Mr Brickley on NESN? If so, I agree. Him and his partner are the worst by far.
Always hard to trade within the the same division but does this veteran UFA have anything left to offer? Improvement over Boullion? Is he worth a 2nd round pick and a mid-range prospect? More?
Robyn Regehr #24 – D
Buffalo
Age: 32
DOB: 1980/04/19
POB: Recife, Brazil
Height: 6-3 Weight: 225lbs
Shoots: L
Average Ice Time: 18:58
Brazil? Nope, I haven’t heard good things about Brazilian players.
Seriously, he would be an excellent depth D if the price was a 3rd.
Like him. Only at a good price, though.
“Improvement over Boullion?”…that is the key question to ask if pondering a trade for a defenseman where high picks will be given. I like Regehr…he’s mean BUT his stats are similar to FB’s (hits, blocked shots, TOI). Don’t know…
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
Slow.
Struggling in Buffalo.
I really like Regehr and am shocked how much his game appears to have fallen off. His parents were doing missionary work in Brazil thus the reason for his birthplace being Brazil.
I have mentioned before, but there is strong suspicion he may retire following the season, his character is excellent and he certainly provides “crease clearing”.
If not to expensive, he is one guy I would get, but the price can’t be high.
Don’t see MB acquiring a top 9 forward or a starting defenceman. Do you see Boullion getting benched with the team in first place? Don’t think so. Do you see a top 9 forward losing his spot? I can’t imagine who…Chucky?
The more I think of it, the more convinced I am that nothing much is going to happen (unless there is a major injury) at trade deadline…
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
I think he makes a move if either Bourque or Diaz don’t look like they’ll be coming back.
Otherwise, yeah I’m betting on standing pat.
DDO, Eller was still getting 10 plus minutes when he was on the 4rth.. having “ten top nine forwards” gives a team more options. Depth is NEVER a hindrance.
Not saying depth it is a hindrance but team chemistry is important. When Ryder was brought in, Cole was removed simultaneously, making the fit easier. I just think it has to be taken into consideration since the team is doing very well.
“You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin
Absolutely. If anyone is picked up, they have to be able to accept a small role without upsetting team chemistry. If the team gets healthy, there will be no need for any additions. Be nice to have enough bodies so we don’t have to watch Yanik weber in the playoffs…
Weber’s actually been a decent playoff performer for MTL.
———————————
Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Pac, Emelin – @J_Perez22
Pending a bizarre run of injuries, time to stay the course. Artificial closeness in points means that even the GMs that privately know the jig is up (I am looking at you Yzerman/Feaster) are using the public face to drive up the prices.
Having three lines capable of alternating as “number 1″ and very even time splits means that injuries/slumps or the failure of mars to align with saturn on some nights will not be a cause for alarm.
If necessary players can shift up, capable players with NHL experience and aware of the new system (Blunden, Leblanc, St-Denis) are now healthy enough (last two particularly) to back fill.
I would rather they try to work out a swap of the Calgary pick and a player for one of the Blue Jackets first rounders for example.
“Don’t crush that dwarf Alex Henry, hand me the pliers”
Damien Cox with a bunch of hockey points.
http://thestar.blogs.com/thespin/2013/03/while-waiting-for-baseball-.html
Did you see that weak-ass’d shoot-out attempt by Ottawa last night? Brutal. Did he really think he could beat an NHL goalie with a pathetic move like that? If Ottawa misses the playoffs by one point, they will remember this. Alfredsson should be embarrassed.
What I found more entertaining was listening to MacLean after the game discussing the move. His one comment towards Daugavins would have left a huge smile on Cherry’s face.
What did MacLean say Burly?
“I think I may have found a way to get us Bonds and Griffey, and we really wouldn’t give up that much” – Costanza
He seemed to kind of take a shot at the kid by Saying “He’s Latvian I never have any idea what he is going to do”
Ha, I missed that. At least Daugavins almost scored, unlike Alfredsson’s attempt.
It was creative and original. Something that is unfortunately anathema in this sport of ours.
Almost worked too. Forced a great save from Rask.
Hey, he was creative… he had a good chance and Rask made a good save. I don’t see why people have an issue with it.
I suppose he could have just skated up let a wrister go from the hash marks and miss wide. Then everyone who’s complaining would be happy…
There would be a 3 way tie for 1st tonight in Eastern Conference if Pittsburgh beats Boston in OT or SO.
Hobie – Brad Boyes would be a excellent player to bring in But. When everyone is back where is he gonna fit in.The only spot I can see would be R/W on the 3rd line than Prust would have to move to the 4th line. Prust is good along side of Galchenyuk and Eller.