Habs given day off before facing Bruins

Following Thursday’s 4-1 win over the Winnipeg Jets, Canadiens coach Michel Therrien gave his players the day off Friday before facing the Boston Bruins Saturday night at the Bell Centre (7 p.m., CBC, RDS, TSN Radio 690).

Michael Ryder had two goals and an assist against the Jets, giving him 9-8-17 totals in 17 games with the Canadiens since being acquired from the Dallas Stars in exchange for Erik Cole. Things haven’t been going so well in Dallas for Cole, who has four goals and zero assists in 16 games with the Stars and is minus-9.

Peter Budaj made 33 saves against the Jets to earn his sixth straight victory and improve his season record to 6-1-1 with a 2.28 goals-against average and a .917 save percentage. Budaj actually has a better GAA and save percentage than Carey Price, who has an 18-7-4 record with a 2.30 GAA and .914 save percentage.

The Canadiens will practice at 10:30 a.m. Saturday in Brossard before facing the Bruins.

(Photo by John Mahoney/The Gazette)

Canadiens bounce back as Ryder scores twice, by Pat Hickey

Ryder credits linemates for offensive success, by Pat Hickey

Budaj posts personal milestone, by Dave Stubbs

Canadiens vs. Jets photo gallery

Is Habs’ Price the goalie for Team Canada in Sochi? by Stu Cowan

Jagr scores winner in debut with Bruins, bostonbruins.com

Old-man Jagr should help Bruins’ power play, by Stu Cowan

P.K. Subban teases a few Bruins fans, 24CH

CBC to air movie on Gordie Howe’s life, by Stu Cowan


  1. habstrinifan says:

    Am I all alone in a bizarro world? I can’t believe the posts saying we should lock up Ryder for 4 to 5 yrs.

    Have we learnt nothing?

    • Two years max, or and I’m sorry, he’ll be let go.

      If he carries this team all the way to the Cup finals and produces then of course he may get 3-4.

      But judging by his track record, we are getting the max right now, which is great of course!

      Shane Oliver
      Twitter @Sholi2000
      Custom Sports Figures

    • Phil C says:

      In 5 years, Ryder will be 38. There are only 15 forwards in the league 38 or older. Not many can keep the pace up for 82 games at that age. I like Ryder, but 2 or 3 years would be better if they can get it done.

  2. Caesar says:

    Picking up on Jon514’s post below.

    Where will Chucky be in 4-5 years.
    Better or worse than

  3. Mr. Biter says:

    Calling for SNOW tonight and tomorrow in Winnipeg. I’d hate to see how cold it would with no Global Warming.
    BTW listening to 1290 jets radio and Jets are a beaten team. Players are down, fans are really down. Don’t see them winning more than 2 maybe 3 games for the rest of the year.
    Going to Jets vs Habs on 25th. Just hope they don’t play spoilers.

    Mr. Biter
    No Guts No Glory

    • We’re in Ile Des Chene tomorrow and Sunday so we are coming in tonight. So sick of this snow!

      OT: True North researching into a return of a WHL team, that would be awesome for a provincial rivalry!

      Shane Oliver
      Twitter @Sholi2000
      Custom Sports Figures

      • Mr. Biter says:

        Sholi, where do you live? Did you get ticket for last Saturday’s game vs the Canes? I remember you were looking for some.

        Mr. Biter
        No Guts No Glory

        • No, but we were at the TB game the week before. Section 119, row 11, 4 and 5, dead center and it was awesome. Felt weird cheering for them but how could you not with all the excitement.

          Still working on tickets for the Habs.

          EDIT- we are in Brandon, leaving in 30 minutes, staying at the BW on Pembina, the boy has games at 12:30 and 4 tomorrow but will be looking for a nice sports bar to watch the Habs tomorrow night.

          Shane Oliver
          Twitter @Sholi2000
          Custom Sports Figures

          • Mr. Biter says:

            Good luck to the boy in his tournament. I think mine’s in one also (played yesterday). I’m at the other end (EK) of town and with the drinking laws probably stay home and watch the game on NHL network( unless they’re going to use the Bruin announcers) without fear of a DUI.
            If I don’t feel like behaving like my Hero Frontanac, I’ll post here tomorrow in the afternoon and perhaps we can meet for a few cold ones and watch the game.

            Mr. Biter
            No Guts No Glory

    • Mavid says:

      its a shame..they have a great fan base..I lived in Winnipeg in the early eighty’s went to a couple of Jets games..they love their hockey..they used to have Tuxedo night you got all dressed up..that was the night they played the Canadiens they called it that because they considered the Habs the class of the NHL. How can you not like them, my Uncle owned a couple of Huskey gas stations, he had season tickets to the Jets and the Blue Bombers..he used to take my dad to the Tuxedo night games because he loved the Habs…I am hoping they make the playoffs but not at our expense

  4. immortalhab says:

    Don’t know if there has been discussion on this but when Jagr flew in, will he clue in or ruin the Bruins? Will he volunteer unsolicited advice or will he be a leader? I think he would have made a mess of the dressing room in Mtl but how will he be in the Boston tears factory?

  5. Stevie.Ray says:

    CBC is showing the Habs game nationally? Looks like my hundreds of tweets cussing them finally worked.

  6. frontenac1 says:

    Starbucks? Fu*king Yuppie Bastards.

  7. Storman says:

    Just got back from a trip to the liquor store re stock Bushmills & Jameson,, bumped into Michael Ryder,, go figure he was going top shelf baby..

  8. TheDagger says:

    I just came from Starbucks…
    Me: Grande americano misto, please.
    Barista: $3.50, can I have your name?
    Me: Bryan.
    Barista: Is that with an I or a Y?
    Me: Y.
    Barista: So I can write it on the cup…
    Me: …

    Time for a beer.

  9. frontenac1 says:

    @Hobie. 140 bucks? Any Topless Dancers?

  10. jon514 says:

    Hey guys,

    What is Chucky’s upside? Does he have the potential to develop into a Jonathan Toews type player?

    Toews came into the league as a 19 year old, but he was instantly dominant. I know circumstances are different, but can someone break down for me if this kid will be a point/game solid +/- player?

    Happy Friday!

    • Steven says:

      Before he was drafted, he was said to be a good deal like either Spezza or Hossa(I forget which).

      I’m unfamiliar with the Toews situation, but you have to remember that Galchenyuk is playing on a 3rd line, with another passer and usually a not exactly dominant winger, on his off position. He also missed an entire year last year where he could have honed his craft. With all this in mind, it should remain to be expected that he won’t be setting the world on fire yet, though experts are in consensus that he will be doing so sooner rather than later.

    • Bill says:

      I think he’s got absolute top line skills, good work ethic. If he had played junior last year I think he would have been the top pick in the draft. He’s getting eased into the lineup with low minutes and not the top mates, and out of position, which is definitely best IMO.

      On a different team, like a desperate team, he could have been thrust into a top line role, and I think he would have produced more with top line minutes and PP time for sure. But he’s got lots of good players ahead of him so that didn’t have to happen.

      Full Breezer 4 Life

    • twilighthours says:

      I think he needs to gain two things:

      1) some weight and the confidence to go with that weight
      2) some speed on the first step – not sure how that happens, but hopefully he can get a bit more explosive

      If he can work on those two areas, we are talking elite offensive player. You can see the puck skills, vision, shot, passing. It’s all there. His puck handling and passing are as good as I’ve seen in Montreal in my lifetime.

  11. jedimyrmidon says:

    Stanley Cup contenders

    It’s interesting: among the favourites, all the top teams in the standings from both East and West conferences are included (plus the LA Kings)… except for the Habs.

    Not that I mind, I’d rather teams underestimate the Habs. I just think it’s telling of the mentality surrounding our favourite team – seemingly under-appreciated in the media. The fact that the Habs have led the Eastern conference or been in 2nd for most of the season hasn’t eliminated the asterix * beside the team’s name…

  12. Skeptical says:

    Dunboyne: The proof will be in the pudding tomorrow night whether he can beat the same team more than once. That means a lot in the playoffs ….

  13. SteverenO says:

    @ Stevereno

    You’re again using a team stat to measure individual performance. A player(Gomez) can be on a line and not contribute positively while Max Pacioretty or Brian Gionta fill the net.

    With that in mind, here is what is in my opinion the more accurate reflection of powerplay productivity, powerplay points (per player) on a per minute basis on the powerplay.

    Markov – 1 for 8.65
    Subban – 1 for 6.85
    Ryder – 1 for 7.57
    Plekanec – 1 for 7.92
    Pacioretty – 1 for 12.15
    Diaz – 1 for 9.57
    GIONTA – 1 FOR 17.66
    DESHARNAIS – 1 FOR 20.60
    Eller – 1 for 4.40
    Gallagher – 1 for 24.33

    You don’t find it at the very least interesting that the stat you’re using implicitly ignores the complete lack of quantifiable production from Desharnais and Gionta? You’ve fairly justified that Gallagher hasn’t been producing on the powerplay, but have made no mention of the numbers for Gionta and Desharnais.

    If the purpose of evaluation is to look for ways to improve I find it short sighted to focus on one underachiever and ignore the others.

    Know where Eller and Desharnais would be if their ice-time were reversed based on stats?

    Eller – 25 points in 35 games
    Desharnais – 16 points in 37 games

    Stats don’t tell the whole story bud. But you can twist them to suit any agenda you’d like. You oughta know that more than most.


    How do you account for the fact that Desharnais ,Paciorettyy and Cole were doing well on the PP , (they were just about equal in productivity to Plekanec, Gionta and Bourque). befoer changes were made.

    The changes were Ryder for Bourgue (typo) (and Pleks line got better) and Gallagher for Cole (Desharnais line got worse).

    You seem to think that I am putting “blame” on Gallagher for the lines in-effectiveness, when I am not. I am just pointing out the reality that Gallagher has never been a part of a successful PP unit in the NHL while the other have. Should the coaching staff do the right thing and replace
    Gallagher with Eller for a while and the productivity NOT go up, the next step would be to look at changing the others (DD and Patches)

    I personally think that Gallagher is our best offensive threat 5 on 5 right now and I think he may potentially be our best penalty killer in the future. Based on his year to date performance he does not belong on the PP unit, Plain and Simple. Even your way of looking at contribution based on points shows that he is the weakest link.

    Furthermore, are you really trying to say that only the goal scorer and the last two guys who touched the puck before are the ones contributing to the PP unit’s effectiveness?


    Steve O.

    • krob1000 says:

      And in the blue corner…weighing in at 732 words and standing 47 lines tall…your challenger…..Steeeeeeeeeeeeevereno!!! … and in In the red corner…your reigning heavy on word champion of the wooooooooooorld….Loonie!!!
      You guys need somewhere to duke this out…lol…just kidding …I get it guys…. I am just as bad some days

  14. Hobie Hansen says:

    Was just checking the internet for scalper tickets for tomorrow night’s game and the cheapest I found was $250 a seat for the last few rows in the building…

  15. Luke says:

    OK Folks I’m heading out.

    Enjoy the game this weekend, I trust this place will be a true madhouse tomorrow.
    Have fun, relish in every moment of euphoria and angst that only the Bruins can inspire.

  16. mark-ID says:

    My thoughts on the Ryder situation after this season are this:

    I definately believe that MB should and will offer him a contract. Ideally with our young propects in the system plus the ones we will be drafting this year, we could sign Ryder for 2-3 years max…..as we will need roster space for the young guys.

    However, as some have mentioned he will be looking for a contract to come close to finishing his career with(he is 33).

    Ideally I think if we can lock him up for 4year at 4.5million would be fair I think. He would be making the same amount per year as Max Pac. Obviously if he would take a three year contract, all the better…..but I’m afraid it might take more years then that. The risk with that contract is that it is the same length and terms we gave Cole…..and we know how that ended.

    “I think I may have found a way for us to get Griffey and Bonds, and we really won’t have to give up much” -Costanza

  17. HardHabits says:

    Who cares if Price has stolen any games or not? I’d prefer that Price never need to steal a game because that shows that the Habs are winning as a team. The stealing game era is in the past and was when the Habs as a team sucked so bad that they had to rely on goal tending (not to mention special teams). The fact of the matter is Price is as solid as it gets and any team would jump at the opportunity to have him.

    As well, Price is a cat burglar. He doesn’t leave finger prints. He makes off with the goods and nobody knows he was even there. Sign of a young master.

    • New says:

      When you hit around 4000 mins a season you aren’t anything but world class. Most goalies can’t handle that workload. A lot of fans saw Dryden and Roy in the same way. The B/U would come in and have a good record and they’d think the B/U was better. It is just the way it is. You don’t start your B/U in games you think you’ll lose. Dryden used to say his job was to keep the guys in it until they decided to win. Same for Price.

  18. HabinBurlington says:

    Have a good weekend everyone, talk to you fine folks tomorrow!

    CHeers and in the words of our fearless leader, Saludos Amigos!

  19. HabinBurlington says:

    Do we know if indeed the Leaf vs. Devils match is the national coverage game on CBC? Or will CBC actually realize how much better the Bruins vs. Habs matchup is.

  20. Timo says:

    You guys crack me up.

  21. munch17 says:

    I think CP is an incredible goalie and I’ve seen them all since Jacques Plante.
    He has amazing lateral movement, focus , and positioning.
    He also handles the puck really well ( most of the time ) and saves his D-men a ton of wear and tear.
    He has had a few ” bad ” games – but if you look at the goals scored against him in the Leaf thrashing , the Bruins 2nd period, and Flyers – how many of those pucks could he have stopped.
    I watch hilites of other games and think ” if CP let in that goal he would be roasted.”
    Save % is a relatively new stat and very deceptive.
    Often against CP other teams are waiting for the perfect shot.
    There are times where you hear people say just put pucks at the net – lots of really weak , not dangerous shots. Not usually for CP.
    We have a world class goalie here and we have him locked up for a long time.We should be happy!!!!

  22. Sportfan says:

    So at what point do teams start clinching the playoffs?


  23. Danno says:

    If the Rocket likes it, it must be good. Muchas gracias

    “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”
    Updates, highlights & great discussions on all things Habs

  24. Habfan17 says:

    I am glad that I am not Marc Bergevin. As much fun it is to post what I would do if I were GM, this will be a tough off season, but in a very good way.

    The right side has Ryder Gallagher, Gionta, Armstrong and Bourque ( natural position ). I would let Armstrong go, Kristo may be ready, so does Bergevin resign Ryder? Trade Gio? Keep Bourque on the left side?

    At centre, Eller is looking more like the first round pick that he was, DD has been signed long term, Galchenyuk will one day be there, Plekanec has reached his peak and has the best trade value, after Galchenyuk, who I would not move. Then there is White, Halpern, possibly Dumont, LeBlanc, Nattinen.

    The left side has Patches, Prust, Moen, and for the moment, Bourque. I for one would like to see Bourque back on the right side where he is more productive. The prospects in the system, Hudon and Bozon are the best proespects here, however they are at least one or two years away. There are some UFA’s that may fit well on the 2nd line like Stalberg.

    On defence, there is Markov, Diaz, Emelin, Subban, Gorges, Boullion, Drewiski, and Weber. The kids have all looked okay in their “try outs” Pateryn, Tinordi, and Beaulieu. There isn’t room for everyone. Drewiski has not looked out of place and may have been a steal for a 5th round pick. Frankly, if he keeps playing well and progresses, I would look at moving Gorges.

    Whatever happens, I am glad it is MB making the decisions!


  25. Dr.Rex says:

    IF the following options were presented to you as Habs GM this offseason which one would you choose first?

    1) Sign David Clarkson to 5 year/25 million deal
    2) Re-sign Ryder to 2 year/ 8 million deal
    3) Extend Subban 7 years @ 6.25 per (43.75 total)

  26. shiram says:

    Is the “Price has not stolen a game ” line based on his style?
    Price is very economical of movement, his positioning and size a great help in covering the angles, he rarely makes spectacular saves.

    Budaj looks alot more flashy, his save looks tougher to make, but does that mean he steals games?

    • Loonie says:

      This is the hilarious thing about the interpretation of good goaltending. Price stops a half dozen uncontested shots from the slot against the Flyers. Several deflections and screened chances too.

      But two of his teammates kick the puck into his net and another one goes in off of an attacker’s skate and he’s a complete sieve.

      • Luke says:

        That’s what the stats show!


        • SteverenO says:

          There you go , knocking the stats again, lol. Even I don’t think that stats are very helpful in measuring a goalie’s effectiveness.

          Price is a very good number one goalie, Budaj is a very good back up goalie. I believe that some people have it “in” for Price because of the way he was favored when Halak was (clearly) outplaying him. Then trading what for many was the only playoff Habs “hero” they have seen in their lifetime , just so Price could get his starting position back.

          It seems obvious at this time that keeping Price over Halak was the “right” move in so far as being the number 1 goalie.

          That being said I still wonder what we could have got in exchange for Price.

          Backes, Oshie, Pietrangelo?

          Would you trade Price and Eller, today, for two of those three guys, an early round pick and Halak?


          Steve O.

      • TheDagger says:

        Should have stole them.

      • piper says:

        LOL! So true. The kid’s one of the top 5 in the league so I just ignore the crap he gets on this site.

    • Luke says:

      Sadly, Price doesn’t put himself out of position enough to have to scamble around desperately to make saves on rebounds he doesn’t kick into the slot.

    • Caesar says:

      I counted 2 games of absolute unquestionable stealing by price this year. The last shutout against the Rangers and the last game against the Caines. If you expect a better performance than those 2 out of a goaltender then I’m not sure Price will ever steal a game in your opinion.

  27. Caesar says:

    Not sure if anyone else noticed, or if I’m seeing things but I think Chucky’s stick actually says Chucky 27 not Galchenyuk on the pattern.

  28. One last time folks! Help save our TSN690, Last Call!

    This is your last chance to help make a difference. Please sign the petition, Please!

    Shane Oliver
    Twitter @Sholi2000
    Custom Sports Figures

    • Habsrule1 says:

      Thanks for posting this sholi. I’d be lost without tsn690!

      Well, more than I am already.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • Habfan17 says:

      Thanks for this, I thought it had been saved!


    • Hobie Hansen says:

      Love watching the game and falling asleep after listening to TSN690. If that shuts down there will be zero English Habs post game show anywhere. Pathetic. Got to love Quebec laws!

      • shiram says:

        Someone should start a post game podcast or something, if TSN690 goes down.
        Something to fill the void.

        • Hobie Hansen says:

          Just amazing that in 2013

          A: We can’t get all 82 games in English on a Canadian television broadcast.

          B: Have an English “All Sports” radio station in Montreal.

          What a joke!

      • Storman says:

        CJAD will take over Habs Pre Game and post game shows as well as game day broadcasts..

        • Hobie Hansen says:

          Figured as much but it’s nice tuning into TSN690 and hearing Habs talk throughout the day. Listening to Nilan right now while working.

          I guess he’d be out of work too…

          • Storman says:

            I hope CJAD decides to program in some extra Hockey or sports shows to help fill the void,,Being in the USA quite a bit I am constantly streaming CJAD for my Montreal fix, to tell you the truth TSN 690 has not been my cup of tea except for the Morning show, Something about Melnick and Tony Marinaro just rub me the wrong way..Probably just me though lol

  29. Storman says:

    Hey Boys and Girls San Antonio Rampage host our farm Bulldogs tonight if you are interested, get A chance to see Hudon, Vail, and Kristo. I do not believe Collberg has agreed to an amateur tryout contract as of yet. Although all our other young prospects are worth the watch with the Habs being off,,

    • piper says:

      Hey Storman, I’m heading down next Friday when Cleveland comes to town. Want to see Joey Hishon play. He’s just recently back playing since taking that dirty hit in the Mem Cup two years ago. Also want to see the how the Habs kids are playing.

      • Storman says:

        Hey Piper I remember that elbow big time,, that Elbow he took really started the crackdown on head shots in the CHL.. Hopefully Joey gets a shot with the Avalanche sometime soon, he certainly deserves a break what an injury plagued career even before being drafted..and then the viscous elbow with missing a complete year..

        • piper says:

          Yes sir, if that elbow happened in the OHL, Branch would have come down hard. Sure hope Joey gets a shot somewhere in the show.The kid has great hands and great hockey sense.

  30. habsfanincalgary says:

    MT has really surprised me this season. I definitely think that coaching (in addition to a reasonably healthy lineup) is a major factor of the team’s success this year!

    I feel the Habs have the ability to win against any team in the East. As Hossa was available a few years back, Gainey said that it would affect team chemistry too much by what they had to give up. Bergevin’s moves that he has made (and also offering contracts during a season unlike BG) have been good. Would I have liked to see a larger forward added? For sure…but the team is working well.

    Some random thoughts:

    – PIT has loaded up and I question the chemistry factor gelling in time for the playoffs.
    – BOS and PIT first round departures would fast track MTL’s road to 25.
    – Price, IMHO, has yet to steal a game this season for the Habs (a la Halak).

    Finally, I’m still trying to find the identity of this team…after Kovy’s and Kovu’s departures, who is the face of the franchise? Price? PK???

    It should be an interesting remainder of the season!

    • Luke says:

      Not the “steal a game” thing again.

      Can someone quantify this for me? I just don’t get what qualifies as stealing a game.
      Price has, what, 4 shutouts? They don’t count?
      He absolutely buried the Rangers in the first period of one of them… but that doesn’t count.

      I dunno… Did Budaj steal any?

      • TheDagger says:

        I hate seeing it as well. Second in the league in wins but “hasn’t stolen a game”. The team is in the top 5 for goals against and third in the league for goals for, of course he didn’t “steal” any games. When you are winning 3-0, 4-1, 5-2 of course it doesn’t look like he has “stolen” games, he hasn’t really had to. Maybe the team should score less to satisfy these “hasn’t stolen a game yet” people. Personally I like having a team play like a team to get their wins, not sit back and rely on their goalie to “steal” games.

        • The Jackal says:

          Generally speaking, those who bring up the stealing games thing, etc., can’t really differentiate between a neanderthal and a knuckle dragger.

          Hockey sine stercore tauri.

      • jedimyrmidon says:

        Impossible to quantify.

        It seems that for some people truly “stealing a game” is Price facing 40+shots, many of them stemming from 2-on-1, 3-on-1, 4-on-0 breakaways, and multiple pinballing deflections. They need to see Price make an amazing “athletic”/flailing save, or whack the puck out of the air with the blade of his stick as it’s about to cross the goal line. It’s about Price doing the splits and baaaarely making a save with the tip of his toe, followed up by stopping 3 to 4 rebound chances and then finally immobilizing the puck.

        Price needs to ward off the other team single-handedly, inspiring hope, shining as a lone beacon and leading the rest of his teammates to victory. Because no matter how poorly his teammates play, no matter how many shots he faces and the quality of those shots, Price WILL stop them.

        In fact, in such a desperate hour, hockey isn’t even a team sport anymore. It’s the other team vs. Price. Forget the notion of Habs D zone coverage.

        That’s many people’s definition of “stealing a game”.

    • Habsrule1 says:

      MT has been awesome. Gainey tried to get Hossa…and Shanahan…and Hull, I believe. If you have a shot at a star, you take it. My gut feeling is they did not want the pressure of playing in Montreal, so screw them. I want players who THRIVE on pressure!

      – Pittsburgh is always scary, but they are beatable.
      – I hope the Habs are the oes to take out Pittsburgh and/or Boston.
      – Price has stolen at least a couple already and I think he’ll steal more down the road and in the playoffs, though I hope he doesn’t have to.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      Imagine if Pitt has to play Phi again this year…we’re not going to know anything until the playoffs start…

      “You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin

  31. Psycho29 says:

    Why does it have to be Habs vs the Bruins tomorrow? Why can’t it be Habs-Devils or Habs-Panthers?

    I will miss most of tomorrow’s game because it’s my girlfriend’s Aunt’s 80th birthday party. I told my GF that I would miss this party but would go to her 90th. That didn’t go over so well….

    And before you call me whipped; I leave Sunday for a week of sun and golf with 3 buddies in Florida.

    Oh well, I guess it’s give and take! :-)

  32. HabinBurlington says:

    Reading below what Chrisadiens posted about Jagr’s recent quote. Only confirms why I think Jaromir Jagr is King of Doucheland. A complete personal bias with no factual backing. I just simply put, can’t stand the peckerhead.

  33. Storman says:

    Funny I just posted that video link of Ryder on the About Last Night thread saying that Ryder requires a Rider in his contract that he gets Insurance for when we win the Stanley Cup, No credit from Booner whats up with that Booner

  34. jedimyrmidon says:

    So much press on Lupul getting injured on TSN!

    Over-exposure. You’d think it was news about Gretzky getting his career ended by a cheapshot!

  35. Loonie says:

    @ Stevereno

    You’re again using a team stat to measure individual performance. A player(Gomez) can be on a line and not contribute positively while Max Pacioretty or Brian Gionta fill the net.

    With that in mind, here is what is in my opinion the more accurate reflection of powerplay productivity, powerplay points(per player) on a per minute basis on the powerplay.

    Markov – 1 for 8.65
    Subban – 1 for 6.85
    Ryder – 1 for 7.57
    Plekanec – 1 for 7.92
    Pacioretty – 1 for 12.15
    Diaz – 1 for 9.57
    GIONTA – 1 FOR 17.66
    DESHARNAIS – 1 FOR 20.60
    Eller – 1 for 4.40
    Gallagher – 1 for 24.33

    You don’t find it at the very least interesting that the stat you’re using implicitly ignores the complete lack of quantifiable production from Desharnais and Gionta? You’ve fairly justified that Gallagher hasn’t been producing on the powerplay, but have made no mention of the numbers for Gionta and Desharnais.

    If the purpose of evaluation is to look for ways to improve I find it short sighted to focus on one underachiever and ignore the others.

    Know where Eller and Desharnais would be if their ice-time were reversed based on stats?

    Eller – 25 points in 35 games
    Desharnais – 16 points in 37 games

    Stats don’t tell the whole story bud. But you can twist them to suit any agenda you’d like. You oughta know that more than most.

    • Steeltown Hab says:



      Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Pac, Emelin – @J_Perez22

    • Habsrule1 says:

      The reason I think these stats mean nothing is because we all knw how good Plekanec is short-handed and this stat makes him look bad.
      Do you really believe that Gallagher and Eller are better at killing penalties than Plekanec?

      Come on.

      Watch the game and decide who’s better based on that. And all this “if this guy had that guy’s ice time, he’d be better” stuff…?
      I’m sure you can make stats tell you that Budaj would be better than Price if their roles were reversed.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

      • Loonie says:

        This was powerplay production. And I’m in agreement that stats only tell part of the story, that was the purpose of the post.

        • Habsrule1 says:

          Ok….sorry. I should learn to read.

          This also suggests that Eller is our best PP player, which must also be thought about before jumping to that conclusion.

          But yes….I agree completely about stats being a bit nuts sometimes. There’s actually a site that calculates “quality of opposition” to determine if players play against good players or not. I found that out when questioning the TSN Power Rankings, which state that PK does not play against strong opposition.

          Go Habs Go!!

          “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

      • Steeltown Hab says:

        Who’s talking about PK?


        Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Pac, Emelin – @J_Perez22

      • jedimyrmidon says:

        Stats mean a lot. But it takes a lot of skill to know 1) when they accurately portray reality and 2) when they can be used in a predictive fashion.

        Actually, a lot of the technicality in statistics involves determining whether or not they are of any significance, and whether or not a given statistical test being used is justified or not, depending on experimental design.

        In other words, simply coming up with ratios is not necessarily indicative of reality, and so conclusions drawn from them may indeed be flawed.

        • Luke says:

          Stats are funny things.
          We’d probably all agree that 1st assists mean more than the 2nd assist, but if PK drives a slap shot, wide of the net but off the back of Desharnais’ head and Gallagher scoops up the loose puck and scores the stat shows DD as the primary assist guy, and it boosts his playmaking credentials.

          Everything in context… and a context for everything. (Something like that).
          The only thing we know for sure, a portion of the population around here would be happy DD took one in the mind. 😉

          • jedimyrmidon says:

            Heheh, yeah. Looking at individual instances will yield potentially funny examples like that (or even looking at yesterday, Gionta gets a goal off his thigh even though it would have been Eller’s). That’s why you consider samples and populations. Even then, one needs to ensure that the statistical measure reflects reality.

            In Steveren-O’s case, he’s looking at goals scored on the PP while Player X is on the ice, which, in principle, sounds like a good idea because a player can potentially contribute to the passing before the PP goal without actually getting a point.

            In DD’s case though, he doesn’t seem to actually be collecting any points on the PP even though goals are occasionally scored, meaning his goal per PP time stat is boosted while his actual points are not. I would argue then that his contribution on the PP is deceptive according to Steveren-O’s stat as it appears that he doesn’t actually contribute all that much.

          • Luke says:

            Then there is alsocontiributions that do not generate points, which I suppose Steve’s stats can take into account. Player A does a pile of work pressuring and forechecking causes a turnover and a goal is scored.

            A get’s no stat, but the Goal reflects in Steve’s stat.

            Course, so does Player B who’s doing a slow coast to bench for a line change while while A is busting his hump.

  36. DDO_Habs_Fan says:

    PK outplayed Chara last time in Boston. Time to do it again Saturday and further his Norris trophy chances…

    “You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin

    • Dunboyne Mike says:

      Does Chara still earn a place in the running any more?
      Or is he there on reputation (and being so impressively large)? I mean, he’s still a very good dman, and Boston’s best. But watching him this season, I’m seeing his qualities leavened with bone-headed plays and an inability to control frustration. Hardly Norris material.
      I think the field includes several players, including PK, who must be well ahead of Chara (assuming it’s a fair contest, of course).

      • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

        He plays huge minutes against the other team’s best…I still think so…

        “You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin

        • Dunboyne Mike says:

          Yes he does, and look what happens when he’s in the box!

          But who else could play those big minutes? There’s a big gap between him and the next guy (don’t even know which that is, possibly Seidenberg?).

          And, to reiterate, I’m not doubting his qualities and value, just that he’s still Norris material.

      • B says:

        Would Chara be as effective if he wasn’t allowed to use an illegally long stick?

        –Go Habs Go!–

        • Dunboyne Mike says:

          B, is it actually illegal?

          The Bruins need to have excellent equipment managers — maybe one of our techier poster could come up with an image of Chara trying to play with Marchand’s hockey stick?…

          • B says:

            I have heard more than once that the league officially said they will not punish Chara for using an illegal stick due to his exceptional height. I don’t think he should get the advantage of a rule exception, his reach is already freakishly long without having the added bonus of an extra long stick (it also helps to give him a harder shot).

            –Go Habs Go!–

    • Luke says:

      I had said earlier in the season (so a couple weeks ago) that PK wasn’t Norris worthy. While I still think his defensive game requires polish, so does Karlsson’s. PK’s entering that zone of Norris based off exceptional offense and merely ‘above average’ defense.

      If this continues, he definitely should get consideration. I’m guessing a nomination but not the win.

      (I also think Markov is currently a better all around defenseman. I really do… I feel more secure with him on the ice). (runs/jumps/ducks/hides).

  37. Un Canadien errant says:

    I’ve been depending on the Leafs mid-season swoon, then collapse out of a playoff spot, but worry that they’ve left it too late. Why undo a streak that’s been lovingly nurtured since 2004? It’s kind of mesmerizing to see a buffoon of a gambler keep betting on black, and see the ball land on red, every damn time.

    I want Greater Toronto/Mike Nonis to feel the wrath of the hockey gods for believing their fate was secure in the hands of Reimer-Scrivens. Silly, pathetic Blue mortals, don’t you know that we have designs on you, that you are helpless marionettes in our Punch and Judy show? Had you manned up and brunged in Uberman Roberto Luongo, you might have had a shot at rewriting your destiny.

    Sports Club Stats has them down to a 98% chance of making the playoffs, a slide from the near 100% chance they had before their recent skid. But I won’t put it past them. Those Mike Kostka boneheadisms and giveaways are getting more costly as the jerseys get tighter around the collar. Surely they see the Joffrey Lupul concussion as an ill portend? Even ‘Homer’-Joe Bowen must see it?




    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      Both Nonis and Gillis are stubborn fools…

      “You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin

    • TheDagger says:

      Shortened season… their “mid-season choke” whill start at, oh I dunno, game 1 of the playoffs. A quick four and out.

    • Chuck says:

      Their traditional late-season swoon doesn’t usually happen until after the 50-game mark, which doesn’t bode well for them in the first round of the playoffs. :)

      Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

    • Bill says:

      Check out the shooting percentages of Toronto’s top scorers. Absolutely unbelievable. Possibly sustainable in a short season, but you have to wonder what would happen if they start scoring at a normal rate in the playoffs.

      Full Breezer 4 Life

    • ClutchNGrab says:

      Last habs game is against the Leafs. It would be sweet to crush their playoffs hopes with it. The problem is i don’t see what team can take their spot, but I believe…

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I have me a feelin’ Normand that the Leafs may be about to start a swoon. Tomorrow’s game in the swamp is HUGE.

    • The Jackal says:

      I was hoping the Laffs made it a decade of ineptitude, but it seems the shortened season is helping them out. Out in the first round I say.

      Hockey sine stercore tauri.

    • jedimyrmidon says:

      There’s indeed little doubt that they’ll make it.

      What’s telling though is how freakin’ often their scorers score compared to the number of shots they take. Kadri’s running along at a 20% clip, which is insanely high. Lupul is probably even higher due to the very small sample size. At some points, this also applied to JVR and Frattin.

      Also, while many people don’t like hearing Corsi or Fenwick, the Leafs basically have been winning while getting outshot almost every single game, which is also incredibly fortuitous for them. What that basically means is that they’re not in possession of the puck.

      So: the Leafs basically win by being hemmed in their own zone for 3/4 of the game then head up ice and promptly score. Sort of like the 2010 Canadiens.

  38. La Duke 16 says:

    I believe that Brewskie Drewskie is going to layout a few little B’s tomorrow night!!

    He is going to win the fans over before the playoffs – a great pickup by management!

  39. Mattyleg says:

    So this is for the Dude and the other Size-ers;
    Lupul got knocked into la-la-land and the Leafs lost to the Flyers.
    This means they need to get bigger, no?
    Because if they were then neither of those things would’ve happened, right?

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • Bill says:

      No silly. It means Toronto needs a goon! If they had one, then no way would the Flyers have hit Lupul. Too bad Toronto doesn’t have a goon.

      Full Breezer 4 Life

      • Chuck says:

        Bergeron out, which must mean that Boston needs a goon, too!

        Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

        • Bill says:

          They lack toughness for sure. Marc Savard would still be playing if the Bruins had someone like Chara, Lucik, or Thornton.

          Full Breezer 4 Life

          • johnnylarue says:

            So obvious it hurts. And just imagine how many goals Marchand would score if he wasn’t the designated enforcer on that team!

      • johnnylarue says:

        Yup–not to take away from the incredible achievement of actually reaching the playoffs once every 7-8 years, but if the Leafs don’t beef up and fast they’ll be toast in the first round fer shure.

      • HardHabits says:

        Lupul needs to keep his head up. As do all athletes who play a contact sport.

    • B says:

      It appears that having guys like Orr and McLaren in the line-up didn’t prevent Lupul from getting hit like that.

      –Go Habs Go!–

  40. 2mins4lookinsooogood says:

    Of stats and defense and other topics of the last 20 minutes … the sample size is pretty small but hard not to think the DD44 will land a regular job in the NHL next season … Habs get first crack – do you make him your 6/7 guy and/or will his agent look to turn the opportunity into a chance to play 4/5 for a middling team for more money?

    “Don’t crush that dwarf Alex Henry, hand me the pliers”

  41. Da Hema says:

    No doubt Price will, as Stu’s column notes, be part of Canada’s Olympic team. The one Hab, though, who should be deemed an “undisputed” part of Canada’s upcoming Olympic team is PK Subban.

  42. Chrisadiens says:

    File this under. WTF?!

    Jagr: “I know ever since Z hit that guy in Montreal everything has turned around. I’ll have to wait and see.”

    Chrisadiens and HabFan10912, one of the few father son tandems on HIO.

  43. Mr_MacDougall says:

    Does everybody think that DD, Patch, gally is the top line?

    It was my understanding that Plek, Gio, Ryder was….

    • Bill says:

      Any line Plekanec is on is always the top line. Or the most important one.

      Full Breezer 4 Life

      • Mr_MacDougall says:

        That is the way I view the team. Plek was at his best against E Staal earlier in the week eh

        • Bill says:

          He does it all. Plays against the top lines and scores goals. Even strength, powerplay or penalty kill, he’s always out there. Last year with all the injuries, DD got Cole and Pacioretty for wingers and Pleks got the cardboard box they came in. Still put up some points somehow.

          Pleks is not only top C, he’s the MVP.

          Full Breezer 4 Life

          • Da Hema says:

            The Habs’s MVP for me is PK Subban. I can see this team continuing to win without Plekanec (but let’s hope he returns soon). I cannot see this team winning at the rate it is without Subban. In Subban’s absence, our current defence turns into a group of journeymen with a few sporadic Russians.

          • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

            Price is the MVP…can’t survive without him. Better team D has lessened his influence this year but it is still there. Subban#2 and Plek/Markov#3.

            “You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin

      • shiram says:

        Pleks gets the most TOI, special teams and he is the scoring tons… he’s the first line C for sure.

      • Cal says:

        Pleks is one of the most under-rated centers in the NHL. He is a great center, starring at both ends of the ice. Can he rack up points like Sid? No, but his solid two-way play makes him as valuable to the Habs as Sid is to the Pens.

    • B says:

      I don’t really worry about labeling or numbering the lines and players. I do like the balance the Habs have this season, they are not a one line team.

      –Go Habs Go!–

    • Luke says:

      I think to much focus is put on assigning a number to lines and a role based on that number.
      Do not care, personally, which line is the number 1 line. I just hope the line that is playing best in a particular game gets the most use.

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      Nope…especially if you’re talking about an all-around line. DD is just not good defensively.

      “You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin

  44. Boston played well last night but Rask stole the show. Got to get on him early. Next, the Habs have to keep up with the trash talk, what ever it takes to get Chara off his game. Last night he was right out to heehaw, falling, mugging, and just plain bad on defense. Marchand as per team SOP, has to be dumped early and often. Get the fans into it right off the hop. The future is so bright, I gotta wear shades.

    Shane Oliver
    Twitter @Sholi2000
    Custom Sports Figures

  45. La Duke 16 says:

    How about this off-season trade: Price to Buffalo for Miller and Grigoerenko.

    Whose with me??

  46. kempie says:

    If you need a reason to smile, I was thinking that if we ever were to be fully healthy, this:

    Pacioretty – Desharnais – Gallagher
    Borque – Plekanec – Gionta
    Galchenyuk – Eller – Ryder
    Armstrong – Halpern – Prust
    sp: White, Moen

    Gorges – Subban
    Emelin – Markov
    Boullion – Diaz
    sp: Drewiske, Weber, Tinordi

    would be pretty deadly.

    • Stevie.Ray says:

      Boullion or Drewiske. Which would you rather have on third pairing?

      • Sportfan says:

        Cube only because he’s been around the whole season and has been pretty solid.


      • kempie says:

        Frankie B for me. And for Steeltown below, I prefer Ryder on the right side, but these would be nice problems to have. I guess my point is that this team has some pretty nice depth and it’s pulled them through nicely so far.

        Also, when healthy, those are lines and pairings that can be rolled and managed effectively that nobody would claim are easy to play against.

        That and the depth are both critical elements in an extended playoff run.

    • Steeltown Hab says:

      I’d swap Bourque with Ryder and get Armstrong in the Pressbox for Moen or White. Lineup that will never happen but I’d love to see:

      Pacioretty – Eller – Galchenyuk
      Ryder – Plekanec – Gionta
      Bourque – Desharnais – Gallagher
      Moen – Halpern – Prust


      Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Pac, Emelin – @J_Perez22

    • Hobie Hansen says:

      When Diaz is back he’ll be put in simply because if his PP contributions. But man, it’s nice to have a tough 3rd pair of defenseman with Bouillon and Drewiske right now.

  47. Small_Town_Boy says:

    Well MB should have traded Price for a big sniper then.

  48. Steeltown Hab says:

    Pleky and Bergeron likely out for Saturday, this game should be wide open.

    Pretty confident in Eller head-to-head with Seguin or Krejci. Hope to see Galchenyuks role expand next game as well.


    Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Pac, Emelin – @J_Perez22

    • Cal says:

      From MT’s comments last night, I don’t think Chucky will be back at center against the Booins. It would be nice to keep him with Ryder and Moen for another game, though. They had instant chemistry.

  49. monmick says:

    Emelin should learn how to tie-up an opponent during a fight in order not to get hit in the face. I understand he is a very strong individual and these are the type of skills that can be learned with a bit of practice.

    Here is a good example. Marc Methot, who is quite strong but not a fighter, easily ties-up Crombeen who is no slouch in the fighting department. Methot doesn’t get hit once. He doesn’t even try to throw a punch. The mistake that most players make in such situations is thinking that the best way to defend yourself is to punch back. It’s actually the best way to get hurt if you are not a fighter because you expose yourself by trying to throw punches…


    ~~~> Mathematically eliminated…

    • The Jackal says:

      Good idea, but I’d rather Emelin not get into fights. Part of the knuckle dragger mentality that remains in the NHL is that if you don’t fight, you’re soft. Players should be able to throw big clean hits and not have to fight because some guy can’t take a hit.

      • monmick says:

        I totally agree with you. This should only be a last resort for Emelin. But if you look at the video I posted, you’ll see the sometimes you simply do not have a choice — Crombeen came at Methot gloves already off and started punching right away. The alternative, if you do not want to fight, is to turtle. If I have to choose between learning to tie someone up, or turtling, I much prefer the former…

        ~~~> Mathematically eliminated…

    • skillswithgritandviolenceforthecup says:

      how about emelin never needing to fight and the habs call up (since its too late for a trade ) a guy like ian shultz and let him do the dirty work…5-6 mins is all he needs a game :)

      I play nhl13 on the xbox360…now I’m more educated about the sport than the average hio member:)

  50. Hobie Hansen says:

    Tomorrow night’s game is going to be awesome! Was thinking of jumping in the car and heading to MTL, from OTT, and catch the game is a sport’s bar or maybe even buy a couple nosebleeds from a scalper. Grabbing a handful of tall cans for $20.00 is probably a better idea though :-).

    Anyway, hoping for a Saturday night classic. I’d love to see Emelin or Subban destroy Jagr at the blue line and the Habs to skate away with the victory.

    Sounds nasty but after all the times we’ve faced Boston in the playoffs while missing guys like Pacioretty, Markov and more, it doesn’t bother me they’re missing Bergeron and Kelly and like I mentioned, knocking Jagr out of the game with a huge hit would top it all off!

  51. Loonie says:

    Has anyone else noticed how remarkably similar the Gaborik and Gomez deals were?

  52. 7677habs says:

    worrisome pattern – habs are 11-0 vs SE division, but 13-13 against the rest of the east this year. If we play a NE div foe in the first round, we are only 6-8 vs the likes of Toronto Ottawa, Buff, and Boxton…

    • Da Hema says:

      Your data is incorrect.

      The Habs are:

      7-3-2 against Atlantic division teams
      6-5-3 against Northeast division teams
      11-0-0 against the Southeast division teams

      • La Duke 16 says:

        Semantics – never let the facts drag you down…..

      • Lafrich says:

        Actually, his info is correct. He is saying a loss is a loss, which is sorta true come playoff time. 13-8-5 is their record against the rest, which is essentially 13-13.

        • savethepuck says:

          But there are no gimmicks in the playoffs to ensure someone wins quickly. So a loss is not a loss. It is a tie in the regular season.

          “They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
          Carey Price

  53. Loonie says:


    I see you went at Luke pretty good for stating the Jets second penalty killing unit is significantly worse than their primary unit.

    I just love how you cite stats consistently and add remarkably subjective conclusions to them, funnier still that you dump on him for doing what you do(and everyone else does) in every opinion you post here.

    Gionta and Desharnais are on the ice for “x” amount of powerplay goals for so they’re doing great. You never bother to mention that both of those players have piss poor per minute production on the powerplay. Just that their contributions can’t be measured and yet you do measure them, based on the scoring of their teammates.

    Brendan Gallagher was a waste of a powerplay spot for how many weeks? And how many people pointed out to you that with one or two points he would be on par with the regulars?

    So it’s not okay for Luke to apply the eye test but it’s okay for you to cite your stats as the be all and end all indication of production, unless of course other stats prove you wrong, then the eye test is okay, for you, not for anyone else.

    • Cal says:

      I’m not a big believer in stats besides wins, losses, goals and assists. There are many sites out there attempting to “Moneyball” hockey. It is to laugh, especially the giveaway/takeaway nonsense.
      Dryden mentioned in (the best hockey book of all time, imo) The Game, that the puck changes possession over 400 times per game. That’s a stat the “eye test” can agree with. As for Fenwick and Corsi…well they are about as legitimate as those giveaway/takeaway stats.


      • Mr_MacDougall says:

        According to NHLPA 93 for Sega Genisis the important stats are
        Goals, Shots, faceoffs, pass %, attack zone time, hits, penalty minutes, PP.

    • Dunboyne Mike says:

      Or, another way to look at it is that stats just add another dimension to the discussion. And since there can be no such thing as objective conclusions derived from stats, then it follows that all conclusions are subjective, on which basis the discussion continues.

      • Cal says:

        Man, that is one beer-inducing and deep hockey talk post. I wish my work day was over……

        • Dunboyne Mike says:

          Ha ha! You are so right!
          I’m supposed to be writing an essay, not trying to keep up with all you guys. Obviously didn’t change mode before that one, and now can’t even understand what I wrote myself.

          Feck it anyway, 7pm here, weekend well and truly under way, time for a beer.

          Couple more hours, Cal. You’ll make it now. Cheers.

    • Bill says:

      Brian Burke is right about one thing: hockey is a game that is awfully hard to quantify.

      Consider the most basic of stats: points. Only in hockey are scores often awarded erroneously. In baseball there is never any doubt who got the hit, the home run, or the run. In football it is pretty clear who scored the touchdown and who passed it. In basketball you always know who got the dunk. But in hockey, it often comes to judgment about whose stick touched it last. And don’t get me started on assists, which are handed out creatively in all but the most basic of plays.

      So even the starter stats in hockey are flawed. After that? It’s a mess. Shot totals are judged with completely different standards in different rinks. So are hit totals, blocked shots, giveaways, takeaways, and possession.

      Numbers are fun to play with, but I won’t trust any of them until the raw data is being collected in a standardized, neutral manner. Which will never happen.

      Full Breezer 4 Life

    • SteverenO says:


      I “went after” Luke for talking out of his hat, I never have, and never will go after anyone for posting their opinions or disagreeing with my conclusions which are usually supported by the data.

      Again , we disagree about “production on the powerplay”. My position is that the unit either succeeds, or fails (scores or does not score) as a unit. I could care less who scorsand who gets the assists. I wish I had the stats that show “successful zone entries” or “time of possession”
      but make the assumption that the more successful the UNIT is in the various factors involved in PowerPlay execution the more success the unit will have in scoring goals.

      you wrote “Brendan Gallagher was a waste of a powerplay spot for how many weeks? And how many people pointed out to you that with one or two points he would be on par with the regulars?”

      This is no true. He is NOT on par with the regulars. in 73 minutes of PP time the team has scored a total of 6 goals. You can argue that its his teamates to blame as much as his, but that argument is NOT supported by the numbers:

      Gionta 18 PPGS in 108 minutes: Ave: 5.9 mins per PPG
      Patches: 11 PPGs in 97 minutes Avg: 8.8 mins per PPG
      Eller: 5 PPGs in 22 minutes AVg ; 4.4 mins per PPG
      Plek: 18 PPgs in 103 minutes: AVg; 5.7 mins per PPG
      Ryder 20 PPgs in 106 Minutes Avg; 5.3 minute PPG
      DD: 12 PPGS in 103 minutes AVG: 8.6 minutes per PPG

      Gallagher: 6 PPgs in 73 minutes; AVG: 12 minutes per PPG

      I don`t see a lot of parity here: yesterday Gallagher played 2 minutes and 33 seconds out of a total of 2 minutes and 51 seconds of PP time.

      No goals scored while he was on the ice: Eller played 18 seconds and two goals were scored. Parity? I think not.

      The question you should be asking is how many more PPGs would we have if Eller had played some of those 73 minutes that were given to Gallagher.

      I have no problem with “other stats proving me wrong”. Your argument about point production has some merit, but I believe most people would agree with the “unit” getting credit rather than the individual.

      Last year our PP stunk. Everyone blamed it on Gomez and its true, he was awful. I blamed it on JM for continuing to use him, the Cunneyworth incredibly did the same. Our PP was pretty good when Gomez was NOT on the ice. we lost a playoff series to the Bruins because we did not score any PP goals, BECAUSE of JM using the WRONG players at the wrong time. Here is the evidence:



      Steve O.

      • Loonie says:

        Again you use a team stat and twist it so that you can illustrate high production for a couple of players(Desharnais and Gionta).

        You’re using YOUR eye test to justify their usage on the powerplay. You aren’t supporting that opinion with any kind of a useful stat. When Francis Bouillon does NOTHING on the powerplay and a couple of other players score your stat that seems to be the holy grail of production(in your eyes) is meaningless.

        Your stat has holes, big ones, you’re the only one who doesn’t seem to realize that. Instead you choose to manipulate it.

  54. SteverenO says:

    @DunboyneMike … you wrote:
    Interesting rebuttal. Two questions:
    1) where do you get all your stats? (and the time to gather them!)
    2) do you realise how hostile your otherwise entirely reasonable post reads? Unnecessarily, I would have thought…

    Stats come from NHL.com and I use a software program, available for free http://www.litcosys.ca/qlikview/ that automatically pulls the updated stats after each game. The program allows the user to create their own formulas and queries: for example I get the Time On Ice data from one page, and the goals scored on a different page. A simple formula dividing minutes/goals (in different situations) gives me numbers that make sense. I prefer to look at frequency of events to determine efficiency rather than just totals.

    I realize that my remarks were hostile and I apologized to Luke for calling him out. Despite the mostly automated system it does take me time to post relevant data here, and Luke seems to feel that it is his job to always “belittle” the data. I relish good arguments and I know that the numbers “can” be sometimes deceptive. There is often factors that can explain why some players have better numbers than others (such as their opponents, linemates, etc.) I would expect that if someone is going to “challenge” the data that they at least spend a moment to check if their claim has any merit.

    I find it interesting, for example, that the Bruins score one goal every 18 minutes at even strength when Chara is on the ice, and allow one every 32 minutes:
    Almost identical to Subban,s numbers – GF every 18 minutes and GA every 31 minutes.
    Both are much better than Markov’s numbers: GF every 25 minutes and GA every 22 minutes.

    I actually enjoy reading most of Luke’s posts here, and I find him, and the majority of posters here to be quite knowledgeable, and of course passionate about the Habs. Again’ to Luke, I apologize for my aggressive tone in the last thread. I guess I was having a bad day.


    Steve O.

    I actually sent an email to Stu Cowan the editor, thinking that it may be worthwhile for the Gazette, or HockeyInsideOut to offer this data discovery tool on their website. There are a lot of great sites where one can go to get the data, but I have not seen one yet that allows the user to really drill down into the data and create there own queries, compare two players/lines/or teams, side by side, etc.

    If anyone here is interested in getting together to create the ultimate hockey stats website, just let me know.


    Steve O.

    • Dunboyne Mike says:

      Always enjoy your posts and the debates they often inspire. Really good one about DD and PP scoring, a week ago, mostly civilised interaction!

      And you’re right, without actually being killjoys, we should maintain some kind of balance between total fan-style cheerleading (me as guilty as anyone — cf. Joe Namath comment to Ian below!) and number-crunching realism.

      Numbers can always be questioned or interpreted in different ways, but no one can do either of those things unless the numbers are in front of them, and it’s often you who provides them. Cheers.

    • Luke says:

      Hey Steve,

      I didn’t see the post, so no hard feelings. Though thanks for the apology. Even if I had seen it, there’d still be no hard feelings.

      You and I have different opinions on the value of the stat. That’s cool. My intention isn’t to belittle yours. So I apologize for that too.

      I like that you have an POV on player roles and have support for why you feel that way. At times I disagree… such is the world. You add something to the discussion. That’s more important than me agreeing or disagreeing.

      Anywho, All’s good.

  55. Smiths Falls Habs Fan says:

    @Luke (I am indeed stuck in that zone. Lol) I understand your point. I was just curious as to why you felt that way. :)

  56. habsfan0 says:

    I think it would be a neat idea if,for a day or two,all avatars on HIO displayed our REAL photos. Might be interesting.

  57. Smiths Falls Habs Fan says:

    @Luke why would it be crazy to start Budaj vs. the Bs? He started 2 games ago and beat them and came in in relief in the last game and beat them again. So, again, why?

    • Luke says:

      @SmithFalls. (assuming you are trapped in the no-reply mobile zone).

      No real reason… sometimes i just like be contrary to the people who post absolutes.
      Often happens when it’s a really bizarre claim, not backed up, or a Sunny Friday at noon and I’d really rather be having a beer.

  58. The Jackal says:

    Funny how the posts are after a W than after an L….

    Could have sworn that we were too small, Price sucked, and that we were going nowhere in the playoffs.
    Now we’re back to being excited for the playoffs and how good our fast and skilled players are 😀

    After we win tomorrow, even Timo will be posting positive things… but for that’s probably something like: Gallagher is ok, but he could still score more goals.

      • 100HABS says:

        Funny. It’s clear to me that all these posters are really Timo himself posing with different names. Including the Jackal and clearly GuyDoon…

    • Cal says:

      “After we win tomorrow, even Timo will be posting positive things”.

      Not on this planet Jackal. He just loves to hate management and most of the team so he can pull the old “I told you so.” With 29 other teams in the league, doing what Timo does is easy and requires little or no imagination.

      • twilighthours says:

        It’s sad, really.

      • GuyDoon says:

        I think Timo loves the Habs just as you and me.
        And I like his “devil’s advocate” PO. Not to mention his dry sense of humour.

        There’s very few posters I find iritating on this board, and Timo is not one of them.

      • FANHABULOUS says:

        Timo is definitely a Debbie Downer… the ultimate pessimist.

        “You will not regret picking me” – PK Subban.

        • GuyDoon says:

          Guys, Timo is a HIO star. Case in point, here we are discussing him!

          He’s a lightning rod. He brings balance; he brings us back to the middle of the road. He makes you think, or at least makes you express what you think.

          I would suggest that HIO needs him more that he needs HIO.

          • The Jackal says:

            Timo is the hero HIO deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we’ll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he’s not our hero, he’s a silent guardian, a watchful protector, a dark knight.

            Hockey sine stercore tauri.

          • habsfan0 says:

            He’s no Bruce Wayne,though..not nearly the same balance sheet.
            In my eyes,he more closely resembles the youthful ward,Dick Grayson.

  59. habsfan0 says:

    A lot of posters on HIO have pointed out with regularity that Markov appears to have lost a step or two this season,attributing this to his knee surgeries and/or advancing age.

    While these factors undoubtedly have had at least some impact on his performance,I’m of the opinion that his TOI might have something to do with it as well.

    This season marks the most amount of games that #79 will have played in at least 2 years. With the imminent return of Diaz,and the recent addition of #44 on defence, I think it might be incumbent on MT to start managing Markov’s ice time as we approach the playoffs. A fresh Andrei Markov during the post season will pay ultimate dividends,IMHO.

    • The Jackal says:

      Totes agree with you, dude bro.

    • habs-fan-84 says:

      I wouldn’t be so sure Diaz is “imminently” returning… I have my doubts on that.

      I agree, re: Markov though.

    • SteverenO says:

      Very astute. I agree completely. Between now and season`s end I would not play Markov on back to back games, Each of the young guys, (Patteryn,Tinordi, Beaulieu) showed enough, to be able to fill infor the odd game or two. For that matter, I don;t think we would be so bad off with Weber, Kaberle, or even Frederic St Denis for some spot duty.

      If the team, as witnessed by not making any major moves on deadline day, is willing to go into the playoffs with the current squad, we should at least do what we can to ensure that everyone is as fresh as possible when the playoffs begin.


      Steve O.

  60. Dunboyne Mike says:

    The content on nhl.com is dictated by business priorities and not hockey ones. So because the NHL is still preoccupied with growing the game in the US, they are cautious about highlighting Canadian (and perhaps particularly French-Canadian, ie. Therrien) content.

    I only visit nhl.com for the game highlights and the standings (and would prefer to get both of those elsewhere if anyone has suggestions).

    • The Jackal says:


      I wish they would at least market the game in places that have winters…. like Seattle, or… some place in Wisconsin.

    • Cal says:

      Go to lnh.com for the French content.
      -edit- mainly written word though.

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        merci bien.

        btw, I didn’t mean to post my nhl.com rant at the top: it was a reply to someone who seems to have been nuked. I thought he was in order today…

        Maybe a Shanahan-type explanation would help us all to be better HIO citizens…

  61. 100HABS says:

    The cole for Ryder trade was good, okay. That said, I don’t like how people point constantly to how bad Cole is doing. Let’s not forget the services rendered. That awful season last year would have been much worse without him. Also, I credit Cole with teaching tons to Pacioretty, who is now our power forward.

    The original Cole signing was a great move (35 goals last year). But the trade was also a good move. Let’s still give Cole his due…

    • Loonie says:

      Then there’s the roll of the dice that comes with a change of scenery. Cole was picking up his game remarkably before being traded and that’s something that the people who consistently dump on him conveniently forget.

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        In fairness, most posters earlier today were doing the opposite of dumping on him.

      • The Jackal says:

        I miss Cole, but you can’t argue that Rydes has not been good for us.
        Still, if the trade never happened, I’d like to think Cole would have been doing much better than in Dallas, but maybe he is considering retirement?

        • Dunboyne Mike says:

          Someone posted earlier that Darche abruptly changed the subject when Cole came up on AntiCh, possibly suggesting what many are guessing, ie some off-ice issue. Would like to have kept him (as well as Ryder; and Guy Lafleur 35 years ago)

      • 100HABS says:

        I agree Loonie, he did seem to be turning his game around at the end.

    • savethepuck says:


      “They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
      Carey Price

  62. DorvalTony says:

    Crazy not to start Budaj against B’s!

    “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
    William F. Buckley, Jr.

  63. Dunboyne Mike says:

    Re Howe film (CBC April 28).
    How about a piece on the best hockey movies? Is there any better than “The Rocket”?

  64. GuyDoon says:

    It doesn’t take a genius to understand the impact of Markov and PK on this team. Big reason for the turnaround, no doubt.

    Personally, I’d be very ok with PK not getting a Norris nomination.

    Look, he’s got a big enough ego as it is, why feed that aspect of his personality 😉

    I kid, but seriously, he will cost an extra mil/yr with a nomination, and maybe two mil/yr if he wins.

    PK’s contract will be big anyway. Let’s wait until he signs a multi year deal before that trophy finds him.

    Let’s hope for the big trophy with all the names of the players on it for this year :)

    • Cal says:

      PK has to be in the running because the damned thing has turned into the Highest Point Scoring Dman Award. Individual awards are for those teams with no chance at the Cup. That’s the only one I want our team to win. Eff the rest.

    • ont fan says:

      Really. PK deserves everything he’s going to get. The crap he puts up with, at times self induced, wherever he goes. Give him what he is worth and be glad he is on our team. My Leaf friends all wished they had Price and Subban on their team.

  65. Chuck says:

    What? No goalie controversy posts on this thread yet? Don’tcha know that the backup won last night?

    Ok, I’ll get it started. Bunny should have played more than Kenny.

    Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

  66. Thurston says:

    I’m just happy CBC is showing this as the national game tomorrow night.
    Living in southwestern Ontario as I do, I’m stuck with the Leafs on my home CBC feed and I only get the St. John’s and Vancouver feeds on my time shifting channels.
    Usually, our beloved Habs are only on in Quebec shutting me out of the fun.
    I didn’t get RDS this season… there has to be some sort of lockout backlash, hasn’t there?

  67. Dunboyne Mike says:

    Re Stu on Price for the Olympics.
    Who are the other front-runners?

    • Timo says:

      Budaj and Halak.

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        (I deleted my funny riposte. It sucked, and you’re toying with me!)

      • B says:

        Reimer and Scrivens?

        –Go Habs Go!–

        • Dunboyne Mike says:

          Both look great when they’re good.
          But is consistency perhaps an issue for both? And experience.

          • B says:

            Seriously now, the guys other than Price whom I consider in the running right now are Brodeur, Luongo, Fleury, Ward, Smith and maybe Crawford.

            –Go Habs Go!–

          • Dunboyne Mike says:

            Sentimentally, if Price had to lose out to one of those, I’d be hoping Brodeur, but I wonder can he still possibly be in the running?

            Surely the inconsistency knock on both Luongo and Fleury damages their chances?

            Other 3, for sure.

            And apologies for missing your previous irony! I am probably not subjected to the Toronto-cheerleading media as much as you are!

  68. habsfan0 says:

    The Fan590 about to discuss PK Subban’s chances of winning the Norris Trophy this year.

  69. habsfan0 says:

    There is a chance Pleks will be returning tomorrow night.
    I suppose that means that Galchenyuk will be returning to the wing?

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Good question, while I think many of us want to see him back at center, I do think the Jets team put up little to no effort in comparison to Flyers earlier and what team will see from Bruins.

      Was good to hear MT acknowledge that they know he is a center, that he will one day be a center, but for now are trying to protect/shield him in his development.

      • habsfan0 says:

        I’m not sure if I understand the logic that dictates that playing a young player on the wing will protect/shield him in his development as opposed to using him at centre. IMHO,all positions on the ice require 100% concentration and responsibility to your assignments.

  70. Ian Cobb says:

    Criticizing or trying to deter celebrating by players after they score a goal, is what we all have dreamed about doing. Even as kids playing street hockey or on the rink all over the country, we have all raised our sticks, given high fives, and fist pump’s. No greater feeling for any of us!
    So for the ones who criticize players for being excited and exuberant, and down right joyful after scoring, is just plain jealous or is a disappointed opposition’s fan.

    And besides!, their smile’s and excitement is contagious throughout the line up and in fact throughout the whole fan population.
    I say let it out kids, it is wonderful for us to be able to enjoy your fun and celebration with you!

    Piss on guys attitude, like Don Cherry, he is for himself, fighting and Toronto anyways.! Once we eliminate his Leafs, he will jump onto our bandwagon like the two faced fella he is anyway.

    • Dunboyne Mike says:

      To me, Ian?
      I completely agree with you.
      But I just thought maybe Gally turned away for a private celebration first. However, as BJ pointed out, and I accept, it had been a long, long drought.
      And you know what I mean about soccer, right?!

    • scavanau says:

      I will not allow Don Cherry onto our bandwagon

    • The Jackal says:

      That’s exactly right Ian.
      People must be really bored if they are going to nitpick what Chucky did after scoring a goal. Did they not see him credit his teammates right after, point to Moen for setting him out?

    • habs-fan-84 says:

      I find it looks really uncomfortable when the scoring player skates AWAY from his teammates (to celebrate) leaving them to awkwardly skate after him. It just seems a bit self-centered.

      I don’t know maybe it’s just me.

      I just know when I played my first instincts were to look for the closest teammate around and celebrate together.

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        Fresh from being absolved, I will add this more generalised comment to yours: I hope it’s not something that starts to occur more frequently in hockey. The kind of “I did it! I did it!” celebration is one of several truly repellent features of European soccer.

        If Ian and Jackal have ever witnessed it they would probably agree.

      • twilighthours says:

        I hope it’s just you.

        Nothing wrong with celebrating a goal nearly any way you wish.

        And anyway, after he pumped his fist, he immediately pointed at the guy who made the play for him.

        • Dunboyne Mike says:

          WHO pumped his fist, then pointed?
          I wasn’t talking about anyone specific! I’ve already done my penance.

          However, Twi, watch some Chelsea/Liverpool/ManU highlights, and you will HAVE to qualify “any way you wish”!

  71. Dryden_29 says:

    Have a great weekend everyone, here’s to hoping we dazzle the Goons with mad skill on Saturday!!

  72. HabinBurlington says:

    Couple points:
    Lupul missing from Practise, watching how wonky he was going to bench I find it hard to believe he isn’t out for a little while with concussion.

    Noticed on Jagr’s goal there was no salute, he says the goal wasn’t pretty enough (something like that) to warrant it. I wonder if perhaps the Bruins have a goal celebration code? Like rather drag your knuckles along the ice, scratch your armpit and head at the same time?

  73. DDO_Habs_Fan says:

    I’d take Ryder back on a two-year deal…

    “You’re always, always, always looking to make your team better. Always.”- Marc Bergevin

  74. Luke says:

    Half way to beers!
    Like, not noon. That’s not half way. I mean, at 4. y’know… like end of the work day thing. Half way to that.

  75. Chuck says:

    They MUST be a sham… Carey is listed as the #4 goalie.

    Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

  76. habsfan0 says:

    While that’s true,wouldn’t exposing Galchenyuk to these added defensive responsibilities aid in his accelerated development as an all around player?

  77. DorvalTony says:

    14th in GAA
    22nd in SV PCT

    “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
    William F. Buckley, Jr.

  78. The Jackal says:

    Who are you again? Oh yeah…. that fellow who lives under a bridge.

  79. Chuck says:

    And in the only stat that matters: 2nd in wins.

    Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

  80. Skeptical says:

    Wins is mostly based on the overall team. Look no further than Fluery. Put him with a weaker team and see how he does regarding wins.

    I’m not saying price is not good but. At times he loses games he shouldn’t and the team cannot be faulted. He’s rated #4 and that’s maybe where he should be.

    If the team plays good. We’ll find out how good he is tomorrow. Boston will test him. and the Habs are gonna be tested.

  81. Dunboyne Mike says:

    “At times he loses games he shouldn’t”

    Has he done it this year?

  82. Thurston says:

    I’m the ultra-paranoid type.
    I’m always concerned those free online streams will produce a pop-up ad that will give my computer a virus.

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