Gorges speaks out at NHLPA meeting

Gorges

The NHL and NHLPA representatives gather again on Wednesday and Thursday to discuss the core economic issues of the collective bargaining agreement. This round comes after NHLPA executive director Don Fehr staged two meetings with players — one in Chicago and one in Kelowna, BC — following the last sessions, briefing them on the talks.

Canadiens defenseman Josh Gorges was among the 38 players who attended the NHLPA briefing in Kelowna, and it’s clear from his remarks that he remains firmly with Fehr and the PA representatives who have been in the negotiations.

Here’s news footage from Shaw TV of the BC meeting that features Fehr and a number of NHL players, including Gorges.

“All the rules and everything that goes with the CBA currently are from decisions they brought into us last time and the one thing you kinda ask is, if it’s not working — and they say the system’s not working — why not change the system?” Gorges tells interviewers. “And the proposal we got didn’t really change. It just asked for us to give up a lot of money and asked us to concede a lot of different aspects but the system itself was still in place.”

Ownership’s proposal calls for the players to take less percentage of Hockey Related Revenue in the new CBA, from 57 percent down to 43 percent. Kevin Allen of USA Today wrote Wednesday that each percentage point is worth more than $30 million. The owners proposal calls for much lower salaries as well as take-backs on things like free agency, arbitration, front loaded contracts and entry level deals.

A number of fans and media observers believe the solution is for the sides to settle on a 50-50 split, which is what the latest NBA and NFL CBAs call for. The NHLPA opposes the 50-50 split (and I examined why in this SI.com post earlier this week).

The players alternative proposal acknowledges the league has problems with some franchises despite unprecedented economic health and agrees to lower salaries for three years followed by a one year return to the current CBA. It also calls for the owners to share more of their record revenue with the struggling teams.

“One side doesn’t have to try to hit a home run and bury the other side,” Gorges said. “I think it’s a matter of coming to an agreement where both sides benefit and I think if both sides benefit, you’re going to have a good game and the fans will be happy and everyone will be happy. So I think that’s the biggest thing: They’re trying to find a system that benefits everybody.”

518 Comments

  1. CharlieHodgeFan says:

    I love watching how these rumours explode across forums – the P.K. one is a beauty. I like this kid, and he is the most exciting young d-man to come through the Habs’ system since Patrice Brisebois (who looked brilliant at the same age).
    I am not sure sure he will ever be a number one d-man even on the Habs (if they become a contender for anything but eighth) – I hope so but it’s not certain yet. He has a lot of talent.
    What he will be is a lot of fans’ favourite player. He is an entertaining guy who appeals to all the old Kovalev fans, and beyond. From a marketing point of view, he is gold. His intangibles aren’t always on the ice – they are at the fan boutique too. The team we love is a condo selling, sweater hawking , ticket selling organization above all else now. For that reason, I don’t expect him to be traded. However he evolves as a defenceman, he has the potential to become a top ranked cash cow.

  2. Ian Cobb says:

    Summit News! LOCK OUT,

    For those who are flying, make sure you take out flight insurance, just in case.

    “IF” a lock out happens, I have instructed the Bell Center to not refund my visa account, but to hold on to our money and replace all the tickets purchased with the same seats at a date of our choosing.

    It would be a nightmare for me to get everyone’s mailing address, you would have to send back to me all your tickets, I would have to buy money orders in USA and Canadian currency, stamps etc. for a hundred and fifty people.

    Anyone who could not make the new Summit date, we will help you sell your new tickets to other HIO members that would like to go.

    This is only a heads up in the event of a lockout. Hopefully not.

    Summit game tickets, News, Pictures and comments
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Montreal-Canadiens-We-Are-Fans-Summit/197390760316125
    Ian

  3. Un Canadien errant says:

    Habitant in Surrey! Sacrilege!

    How dare you make a case that P.K. Subban is a good young player with lots of potential to be great, then make a reasoned case that as such he’s an attractive asset that we can explore trading away to get equivalent or greater value in return, if that would serve our team better and would allow the Canadiens to reach contender status? That’s anathema!

    Don’t you understand that P.K. is someone out there’s favourite player and as such is beyond reproach, and has never done anything wrong or selfish or stupid or immature, and to even suggest that he should knuckle down and get serious, or (gasp), that a change in scenery might serve him and the Canadiens best, is an outrage punishable by banishment and excommunication from HIO?

    Grovel! Grovel for forgiveness, impertinent knave!

  4. alwayssunny says:

    Was just looking at the roster and it is pretty deep with veterans. Usually last place teams can expect some competition at camp but the Habs roster is pretty much set. Where do our bright young stars like Weber, Geoffrion, Pelushaj, Leblanc, and Diaz fit on such a deep team?

  5. RGM says:

    Speaking of Josh, apparently he is now on the Twitter: @jgorges26

    Still no little blue chirpy bird but the first person to make mention of it was one of his junior teammates from Kelowna.

    ———————–
    GO HABS GO! Maybe 2012-13 will be our year!
    “Scott Gomez is an elite NHL player” – VancouverHab

    Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

  6. alwayssunny says:

    70 percent of habs fans think that they will jump 8 teams and make the playoffs this year. Numbers like that are what keep management smiling. As glad as I was to see stiffs like Kostitsyn and Camalleri go, I’m left wondering where the goals are coming from. Armstrong, Prust, Bouillon. That’s how 15th has been addressed.

  7. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …completely hypothetical
    …You should know I have defended PK since He first joined the Team from His detractors
    …certainly, He has far fewer detractors today than He did then
    …PK outranks even Carey as My favourite current Player
    …but, since the WJ Championship in which He was the hero, Jordan Eberle is one of a select few highly talented players in the NHL I would certainly consider trading for if it was available
    …if Edmonton were crazy enough to make Eberle available, PK for JE would be one of the few I would have to sit down to consider
    …would be hard to giveaway PK’s glitz, but We have some very interesting potential in defensemen percolating in Our system to pick-up where PK left-off

    Note Bene: …DON’T allow UCe to read this !

    _________________________________________________________
    Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049

    Campaign to Retire Toe Blake’s Number 6 !!!

    …and, last, but not least: FREE PUSSY RIOT !!!

    • commandant says:

      I like Eberle I really do, but I wouldn’t do it.

      Why? Even with all those young defencemen, and yes its deep, i don’t see another True #1 guy like Subban can be.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • Habitant in Surrey says:

        …there certainly would not be another PK …but, I believe We will be greatly improved offensively with Eberle …and Our current D + defensive prospects on the way will be a solid, if not exciting, D without PK
        …like I said, this is COMPLETELY hypothetical when it comes to obtaining someone like Eberle …this is NOT a trade PK rant :)

        _________________________________________________________
        Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
        http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049

        Campaign to Retire Toe Blake’s Number 6 !!!

        …and, last, but not least: FREE PUSSY RIOT !!!

        • commandant says:

          Eberle’s great, he really is, I just personally value #1 D over #1 RWs unless that RW proves to be head and shoulders above.

          Our system also has just as many potential #2/3 RWs in it, as we have potential #2/3 defenceman behind Subban. Collberg, Leblanc, Gallagher, Kristo, Holland, Palushaj,

          I put a greater value on the position of defenceman than wing, all things being equal or close to equal.

          If we were talking about a Centre… like RNH… I’d have to think long and hard.

          But thats just personal opinion.

          Go Habs Go!
          Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
          http://lastwordonsports.com/

          • Habitant in Surrey says:

            …it would be something I would have to take time to think about, I wouldn’t blow it off if Tambellini called :)
            …Galchenyuk between Eberle and Patches, or Kristo/Colberg ?

    • naweed235 says:

      Montreal is going to have to give more than just PK to get Edmonton to even remotely consider trading Eberle… that kid is a gem

  8. alwayssunny says:

    A lot of crazy talk going on about Subban. Sure he got involved in numerous altercations with his own teammates. And we all know about the turtling. And the stupid penalty after stupid penalty. Penalty minutes are alright if they are roughing or helping out the cause, but his arent those. He has some flash and some skills, but it’s pretty funny to see his name mentioned with Doughty and Weber.

    Keep it sane Bergevin, don’t listen to the hype like you did with Price. He’s a nice little defenseman with some promise. 40 point guy maybe if he keeps abandoning defense. Get you 40, cost you 20.

    Go Habs Go

  9. commandant says:

    L.A. Lariviere ‏@L_A_theRiver

    “#Habs Subban’s agent says no truth to report he’s asked for 5 yr/ $30M deal: “Another erroneous report. PK has not made any such request”

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  10. accp says:

    I don’t know what Subban is worth. if he can stay healthy. he’ll be better than Doughty. he’s not too far off right now and that’s why Meehan is going for the big bucks.

  11. JohnBellyful says:

    Today’s hockey is very much like sausage, I’m afraid, in that so much of the product is filler – players are signed not because they add anything to the flavour, or spectacle, but because their bodies stuff sweaters, and complete the roster.
    Whatever talent they bring is minimal – virtually nil in terms of entertainment value – and yet they earn salaries in the hundreds of thousands.
    Sure, there is a risk of injury in what they do, but there are numerous occupations that offer greater potential for harm for pay that is considerably less.
    Would the game suffer from the absence of fourth liners? I think not.
    But, you say, teams need those sweater-fillers to be able to make it through a game, otherwise the three lines would become exhausted and susceptible to injury.
    Quite right which is why the periods should be reduced to 15 minutes.
    Three lines should be able to handle 45 minutes of playing time, and more of it, proportionally, would be given over to talented players, and their apprentices, to perform their magic.
    And to guard against goonery, headhunting and other foul play from creeping back into the game, minors would be expanded to three minutes, or, alternatively, be served in their entirety, however many goals the other team scores while on the power play.
    With playing time reduced by one-quarter, teams would be foolish to court disaster by dressing no-talent players who have issues with self-control.
    The talent pool would be deepened by altering the dimensions of the container – the roster – which, in turn, would heighten the prospect of making the game more entertaining.
    Now the players’ union might object to seeing its membership shrink but resistance to such a radical change would dissolve if the owners were to agree to a decrease in the salary cap that was much less than the percentage decrease in actual player numbers.
    In other words, the players good enough to play in the new NHL would reap a greater reward than is possible under the current system.
    The owners would end up paying less in salary to produce a vastly superior product capable of attracting larger audiences. Sausage with less filler, more taste.
    And if the owners insist the game would be hurt by having fewer fights, well, I suppose they could satisfy the blood lust of fans by scheduling on-ice fights after the game. The Fourth Period, featuring former fourth-liners, of course. Anything to save players’ jobs.

  12. 98.5 is also saying that Don Meehan is using the Doughty contract ($7 million for 8 years) as a comparison for Subban.

    Ridiculous. Doughty is top 3 defenseman in the League. Subban is top 20. No comparison right now.

    I love PK but he’s not worth $6 million per year.
    Telio
    The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site: http://teliopost.com/
    Twitter: @teliopost

  13. otter649 says:

    Red Fisher turned 86 today (22).

    Also tomorrow there is The Toe Blake Memorial Golf Tournament which has been held since Mr Blake’s death with the proceeds going to Alzheimers Research etc…….

  14. Bripro says:

    I just came on for a minute and read the PK rumour.
    And I’m sure it’s just that.
    There’s nothing on Twitter.
    Renaud Lavoie (who knows everything about the habs), Bob McKenzie, Dave Stubbs, Arpon, Brian Wilde…..nobody.
    Not a single comment relating to PK.
    So I’ll hold my comments until this unconfirmed report is supported by a reliable source.
    So let’s not start trashing or endorsing PK and his agent until the truth comes out.
    Boy, you throw a pebble in the ocean, and the next thing you know, you have a thousand surfing a tidal wave.

  15. commandant says:

    Is there an actual reporter standing behind those numbers this time or is it just “98.5”? And if so, who?

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  16. JUST ME says:

    Relax guys. The P.K. information comes from the worst reporter of them all when it comes to hockey Jeremy Filosa from 98.5 fm. And of course he gets those informations from reliable sources…If you want to believe that rumor go ahead but knowing the guy i`m telling you he is a fraud….

  17. Hobie Hansen says:

    If Subban’s agent is really asking for that much cash, $6mill, that’s some very aggressive negotiation. Earlier in the summer it was reported Montreal offered him $3 mill a season and most fans concluded that he deserved $4 mill.

    But to come out with such high demands like the Subban camp is doing now is a bit overboard. I could see biting the bullet and maybe paying $5 mill but anything over that is really starting to gamble.

    I say Subban has a very realistic shot at becoming that number one defenseman and notching 60pts or more a season but does that equal $6 mill without proving it yet?

    If the Subban for Eberle rumors were true, which I doubt they are, I’d pull the trigger if Subban was asking for that much.

  18. ProHabs says:

    So the Habs and PK should just find common ground and give him 5 million a year. I don’t blame PK for asking for 6. He is the most exciting player to play in MOntreal in years and for the last 2 years has been the anchor on defence because Pierre Gauthier and the team doctors couldn’t diagnose Markov’s knee correctly.

  19. ooder says:

    quick question
    so if there is a lockout and guys like nash/crosby/malkin/ovechkin lets say sign in the KHL
    then lets say the season starts around December.
    these guys that are under contract with the KHL now, are they allowed to come back to the NHL… since the Radulov case i thought that the nhl and khl closed the loophole
    ——————
    The 2010-11 Stanley Cup was not won, but given

  20. Ian Cobb says:

    PK wants 5yr for $30mil. =$6per
    Habs want 5yr for $20mil. =$4per

    Just rumors!

    • Kooch7800 says:

      The habs offer is realistic if these are true…PK if he wants that much will not be a hab much longer. I would trade him if he thinks he is currently worth 6 million. Maybe they need to show him some tape from last year when he single handed blew games

    • Boomer says:

      Honestly I don’t get it, is another two million really gonna make that much of a difference in his life style?? is it an ego thing? cause he needs to keep that shit in check as is.

      Occupation: Professional Hedonist… aiming low and exceeding expectations ;)
      Hobo with a laptop

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        It has nothing to with ego. His agent’s job is to get the maximum.

        Period.


        Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

        • Boomer says:

          There’s nothing stopping PK from telling his agent to take whats offered…

          Occupation: Professional Hedonist… aiming low and exceeding expectations ;)
          Hobo with a laptop

          • Boomer says:

            correction…there’s the 2 million dollar difference stopping him

            Occupation: Professional Hedonist… aiming low and exceeding expectations ;)
            Hobo with a laptop

      • ont fan says:

        So you’re PK’s agent and you’re going to ask for 5 yrs. and 20 m.? What kind of negotiation is that if you are going to settle at 25 m. The agent is bargaining for himself too.

    • naweed235 says:

      Hi Ian,
      1) where did you get those numbers from?
      2) If they are true then I gotta say PK is delusional if he thinks he’ll get that kind of money with any team at this stage of his career. Yes, he is extremely talented and has all the tools to one day get a $10 M per contract but until then, he needs to grow up a little and groom out the unneeded stuff from his game.

    • aj says:

      @ Ian Cobb:

      PK is still not yet at the $30million multi-contract level. If the info you’re giving is true, then the Habs would have no choice but to waive his restrictions. I don’t see the point of waiting for him to get a deal if he’s asking for too much $$$!

  21. Hobie Hansen says:

    It was a brilliant move for the NHLPA to say they’d play hockey next season under the current agreement and negotiate during the regular season. It defiantly solidified my vote for the NHLPA.

    If the players in the NHL are taking home a good chunk of the dough and it’s a case of the employee putting the squeeze on the big rich employer, that’s great!

    I hope all the Canadian guys in the league make millions. They’re just like most of us out there and would be getting f*&#ed over by big corporations, banks and whatever else if they weren’t professional hockey players. So good for the NHLPA.

    All I care about is the salary cap. Pay the players whatever you want and for how long, but never allow a team in a huge market to have a larger payroll than medium to small market teams.

    If there were no salary cap there would be anywhere from (I’m guessing) 3 to 5 times that would probably add a contract or two more than the Canadiens. Prior to the lockout I remember the Leafs were constantly adding players at the deadline and spending $15 million a year more than the Habs, falling short of the finals but definitely improving their team. We’d be at a disadvantage.

    Man, it’s such crap that there’s an overwhelming chance that there’s going to be a delay in the season, at the very least. They should make the next CBA expire the day after the cup is hoisted so they have more time to negotiate and not act like idiots.

    • ed lopaz says:

      the irony, of course, is that the hard cap GUARANTEES the Leaf owners about 50 million per season in operating profit; whereas,

      if there was no Cap, the Leafs would probably be around 100 million today in salary and effectively cut their operating profit in half.

    • ABHabsfan says:

      The cap generally works out to level the playing field somewhat but to be truely fair, the cap should reflect “After-tax” salary. Government policy should have no part in how a player decides where to play.

      “man, I love winnin'; you know, it’s like better than losin’?”-
      Ebby Calvin “Nuke” Laloosh

  22. Three HABS just selected to the NHLPA ‘rookie showcase’!

    (Tinordi, Beaulieu and Galchenyuk).
    We lead the league (tied with Boston) for most players invited!
    Telio
    The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site: http://teliopost.com/
    Twitter: @teliopost

  23. Breaking news: PK Subban is asking for $6 million per season for 5 seasons!
    link is at Teliopost.com as usual.
    I think it’s too much money.
    Telio

    The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site: http://teliopost.com/
    Twitter: @teliopost

  24. frontenac1 says:

    Take Sides? How can you not take sides when you have that Smarmy little Gunsel screwing around? Uh-oh,I got moderated and shut down last time for that. Oh well ,guess I’m in the penalty box again Amigos. Hola!

  25. HabFab says:

    Too funny, not a big Tony fan but good response!
    The c-word is censored along with the sender ;)

    TonyMarinaro “@…_..: @TonyMarinaro you are a c… and you know that” Another fan. Send me your address, I will mail you an autographed picture.

  26. commandant says:

    I was wrong before guys, its at least 9 teams (add Tampa Bay) that have signed players to 6 years or more since July 1st.

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  27. Curtis O Habs says:

    My employer profited more than two billion dollars last year. I am sure the employees would love to share in any percentage of that profit, on top of their wages.

  28. HabFab says:

    Nice article from Renaud for those that can read French and for those that don’t know him, he is the francophone Bob Mackenzie. The drift of his article is in his twitter.

    RenLavoieRDS The main point right now, the NHL don’t want to talk about the NHLPA proposal and vice versa. Dead end ?

    http://legrandclub.rds.ca/profils/608456/posts/147104/public

  29. ed lopaz says:

    every time some poster on this site dares to post something that criticises the players – he is immediately confronted like he’s some kind of lunatic spewing nonsense.

    those of you who are so sure that the players are “right” and the owners are “wrong” are also very quick to point out that the players some how got ripped on the last deal, their union was in a shambles, their leadership was weak, and the deal was completely one sided in favor of the owners.

    yet, the players are ready to keep playing under THIS DEAL..

    the players want to come back to THIS DEAL in 3 years time.

    so maybe we should ask ourselves the obvious question:

    If the players were so screwed by this deal why are they so happy to keep playing under these terms now, or in 3 years??

    the answer: this deal worked well for every single player in the union, bar none.

    this deal did NOT work well for about 1/3 of the league owners; and about 5 franchises are literally incapable of operating at the break even mark.

    clearly there needs to be compromise on both sides.

  30. HabFab says:

    3 Hab Rookies invited to the Rookie Card Showcase, this out of 30 players invited;

    http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/2012/08/three-stars-prospects-invited-to-rookie-showcase-in-toronto.html/

  31. otter649 says:

    Watching Aaron Ward on TSN talking about The CBA & if you look carefully you can see puppet strings in the background………lol

  32. Habziefan09 says:

    I said this in 94, and again in 04 and I will say it again.

    -Send Bettman and his minions packing
    -Scale the League back to 21 teams.. thus doing away with teams that wouldn’t even get snow in the ice age.
    -Remind the owners who’s money they are getting when we pay close to 500 bucks a seat to see Boston in Montreal.. or any 2nd rate (Erm I mean) Leafs home games.
    ___________________________________________________________
    Twitter: Habziefan09

    Confucius says: “Baseball has it all wrong, Man with 4 balls cannot walk!”

    http://habziefan09.blogspot.com

    • habsnyc says:

      with whom are you negotiating? shutting down a third of the NHL is not going to happen. the owners, players and media rights holders are against that plan.

      who is going to pay the roughly $1.1B in guaranteed player contracts with those teams? who is going to pick up the roughly $1B in debt those teams owe collectively to banks? who is going to make good on the long term lease obligations that could total $500 million for these teams? what about the 1/3 of revenues that media sponsors would demand refunded?

      all this so you do not have to sit through a game between the Habs and Panthers?

      Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

      • Habziefan09 says:

        That 1/3 of the league you are referring to has been struggling since they came into the league.. the only good thing that has come out of it was that Atlanta was moved AGAIN might I add. As for the money for guarranteed contracts… The league is full of “Darches” and “Gomezes” and other players that would have never made it into the league in the first place.

        I am sure that behind closed doors, the owners who keep on crying that they can’t operate under the current CBA that was ratified in 04 are made up of the 1/3 that should have never been given a team in the first place.

        ____________________________________________________________
        Twitter: Habziefan09

        Confucius says: “Baseball has it all wrong, Man with 4 balls cannot walk!”

        http://habziefan09.blogspot.com

    • piper says:

      I agree. Send 30% of the players packing too. We’d have a lot better game to watch.

  33. HabFab says:

    CBA Revenue Sharing Figures
    – top team had 6.4% of Revenue (Toronto)
    – bottom team 2.1% (Islanders)
    – 9 teams had league average revenue or above
    – 21 teams were below league average
    – 6 teams exceeded league average by 10%
    – 17 teams were below league average by more then 10%

  34. Strummer says:

    Get ready for more of the following on sports television this fall:

    Men in sunglasses playing cards
    Men in tights/on steroids hitting each other with folding chairs
    Saturday screenings of Happy Gilmore (CBC only)
    Miscellaneous old sports movies (i.e. bang the Drum Slowly) on TSN/TSN2

    On the bright side: English Premier League has started ( crackin’ match on TSN this aft with Chelsea and Reading), NCAA Football and NFL starts after Labour Day.

    Thanks for watching- Don’t touch that dial- We’ll be right back!

    ____________________________________________________
    “It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

  35. downeast hab says:

    Due to work committments, I have not seem much, but what I’ve seem and heard is that players are more unitified this time around, make no wonder, just notice whos behind Fehr its all the superstars who can miss a season and live alone from endorsments. Not a common player who depends on it for the biils to pay. And owners are like wolves, operate in packs, and would do the other in on a minute. BUT, the fans are the ones that pay for the GREED. The fans in each city should show their discust to the teams including players and owners—ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

  36. habstrinifan says:

    Ok I know you all gonna call me crazy but I love going to hockeyyinsiderr site and seeing the back and forth between him and all the ‘mainstream’ media like dreger etc. Only person it seems who hasnt gotten into a one on one dogfight with him is MacKenzie who i sprobably rhe most honest and trustworthy hockey man around.

    HockeyyInsiderr is now fighting RDS because they didnt give him ‘credit’ for breaking the Markov suit and also fighting everybody because he is claiming he ‘broke’ the Tyler Hall signing.

    Crazy yes.. but fun!

  37. Newf_Habster says:

    If there is a NHL lockout, I wonder whether or not TSN, RDS and/or CBC will show some European hockey games like KHL and Swedish Elite League. I don’t mind to catch some of them. :)

  38. 44har48 says:

    I’m not telling anyone on this forum anything you don’t already know but I’ll say it anyway.

    This is sad to watch. It always is, but especially now, and especially in the NHL. I love this game, this sport, have played it my entire life, but I live next to the border on the US side and my friends…we are the minority.

    Most folks do not care about this game, and it simply cannot take another lockout. I sincerely hope these money hungry dildos understand that.

  39. smiler2729 says:

    I didn’t read this,
    I don’t want to read it,
    I don’t care about CBA talks,
    I don’t care about the stupid owners,
    I don’t care about the greedy agents,
    I don’t care about the overpaid players,
    I care about the game,
    I care about my hometown team,
    I care about NHL hockey…

    Talk to you all when on-ice issues matter and the “business” of the sport is back where it belongs – in the boardrooms.

    I believe the league is committing suicide if they cancel ANY GAMES over this crap.

    _______________________________________
    Calling it like it is:
    Jack Edwards is a clam.
    Tim Thomas is a Nugentian lunatic.
    Boston Bruins, gutless diving weasel pukes.

  40. TomNickle says:

    The Winter Classic is the tipping point for determining a start date for the season guys? Really?

    How about lost television money? Merchandise sales? Huge lease payments? No. A single hockey game that produces an amount of revenue and attention that’s barely noteworthy.

    I understand the Winter Classic generates a lot of single weekend money. But they could easily reschedule it.

    • mrhabby says:

      throw in the world series, college football and the NFL while your at it..

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Tom, my understanding is the league contract with NBC calls for the money to be paid and another year added to the contract. Would you know if HNIC and RDS deals may be similar.

      ———————————–

      • TomNickle says:

        If that’s the case and the NHL demanded the payment then they will have burned their second major network bridge. First ESPN and in the event what you believe would happen does, NBC.

        They would quickly have no television partners. Which is another reason the players have leverage here. The NHL is creeping dangerously close to having another partially or fully lost season. Still the only major sport to lose a full season to lockout. That’s not a good footnote to have in television negotiations.

        • commandant says:

          Ed Snider recently bought a controlling interest in NBC….

          Is the bridge really burnt?

          The guy on the negotiation committee for the owners, also owns the controlling shares of the network.

          Go Habs Go!
          Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
          http://lastwordonsports.com/

          • TomNickle says:

            It is when 29 other owners want the best deal possible and Ed Snider would rightfully feel like he has the league barrel over fist.

          • commandant says:

            Then 29 other owners should see the conflict of interest and not put Snider on the negotiation committee. Its their own fault.

            Go Habs Go!
            Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
            http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • B says:

          Under the terms of the signed deal, payment must be made for this coming season, but if the season is not played then another year (already paid for) will be added on the end of the deal. It doesn’t really seem such a bad deal for NBC to pay today’s rate for a season 10 years down the road from now in the event of this season not being played.

          I don’t know what happens under the Canadian TV deals in the event of no games being played. I am also not sure how the loss of some games but not an entire season impacts any of the NHL TV contracts, but I imagine there are clauses written into those deals to cover such events.

    • shiram says:

      It might not be the as important as some think, but it could still prove to be an important date for both parties negotiating, IE: try to have a working agreement in place 5-6 weeks before the Winter Classic, but if no agreement is reached then the whole season would likely be dead.

    • 44har48 says:

      I still hate that they shut down the Canadien version (heritage classic?) and made it a US game and I am from the US!

    • habstrinifan says:

      WB Tom! Where have you been. Glad to see you back.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      It generates a TON of money. You have the old guys game on the friday night…that is televised and the actual game. The capacity of michigan stadium is 100,000….ticket prices will be in the 100 per ticket range…do the math

      This is also a big TV audience on January 1st. People are looking for something to turn into with the family.

      • TomNickle says:

        They have College Bowl games, NFL, NBA.

        Sorry, the NHL is at the bottom of the totem pole there Kooch. The Winter Classic is a nice weekend event that generates SOME revenue for the NHL and its players. It isn’t a financial coup.

        • Kooch7800 says:

          I am strictly talking NHL not other leagues or stadium revenue. I am sure the stadium could careless. It is an infusion of some pretty big dollars that if let slip by would equal quite a few games. I think it is also the attention that particular game brings to the League. Opportunity costs also weigh in.

          I still think by Christmas they will be playing. I could understand the lock out last time due to the cap. This negotiation should not be as difficult but $ talks

          • TomNickle says:

            The game last year with more marketable teams and players generated $36 million for the city which far and away would be more than the game itself with hotel bookings, restaurant hauls, merchandise sales outside of the stadium and otherwise.

            The big money is in the ad revenue for NBC, which unfortunately is only owned by one of the league’s 29 owners.

    • Gerry H says:

      Apparently NBC has major dollars invested in the 24/7 franchise associated with the Winter Classic. It’s the linchpin of their deal with the NHL.

  41. HabinBurlington says:

    @bleedhabs, sorry on phone can’t respond directly, I nearly sharted myself from laughing reading your subway comment. If that is true, I may indeed do so from laughter!

    • Habfan10912 says:

      He never finished the story. Did he get the job? :)

      ———————————–

    • Bripro says:

      At least his was on the subway.
      Years ago, I had just successfully negotiated a supply contract with Kraft in TMR.
      I was sitting in the new buyer’s office when (gasp)…. Montezuma’s revenge! I kid you not.
      Of course, the six secretaries and two executives in the adjoining low-panel cubicles thought I had passed a nasty gas ball.
      Have you ever tried to walk straight after that?
      He has since become a very good contact but back then?
      Brutal…. he couldn’t open his windows…. it was pretty bad.

    • bleedhabs81 says:

      There really isn’t too much more to say… I drove into toronto (from Guelph) all suited up. Parked at the Yorkdale mall and hopped on the Subway.

      I was a little bit nervous, being a young kid who just graduated, but there were no aparent signs that I should closely “monitor” the expulsion of bio-gas.

      Not to far into the subway ride, I found myself almost alone on the subway car and with a sensation of needing to relieve myself. It wasn’t dire, and I typically don’t like doing that in closed environments where I am stuck. My preffered method is crop dusting, you know? Drop it as you go.

      Anyway, I decided that although I did not need to do so, it may actually help me in the long run. So, I gave a little lean (to stop the reverberation on plastic) and let it go.

      I realized during the act that all was not right and a shut it down as quick as possible. Then I sat there thinking “I think something is wrong, but I am not sure… how do I check…” and decided my best option was to play it cool and see if I passed the smell test. Initially, I didn’t pass the smell test, but that was expected in a situation where you are concerned that you may have sharted… there is bound to be an odour even if you didn’t actually shart. The thing was the, the smell didn’t go away. I got used to it, but it didn’t go away.

      Now what do I do? Do I just sit here, thinking I messed myself and wait for my stop? Is it contained… or am I risking my suit pants with every passing moment? Am I even convinced that I did do it… of course I did, I can smell it… I think… can I check? should I check… do I want to be that guy with his hands down the back of his pants on the TTC? what if I did and I make contact… then what… would I be that guy and wipe it on the TTC seat? NO!

      The train stops and more people get on… I am that stinky guy on the TTC. I should leave before it gets more crowded. Am I even sure it happened… damn I wish I could check…. Eff it, I am getting off and hitting up the bathroom.

      So, I gracefully pucker up, clench tight and scurry off the TTC at the next stop. Slide step/shuffle all the way to the bathroom.

      Well, it turns out, I did shart… just a little. Not enough to affect my pants but enough that I decided the boxers could stay in the subway bathroom. I went to my job interview comando and if it wasn’t for the irritable bowel it would have been quite liberating.

      I did not get the job.

  42. TomNickle says:

    Okay. Regardless of which side you happen to be on if any at all regarding the owners and players.

    It at the very least is time to realize that the season will not start on time. There are seven weeks between now and the scheduled start of the regular season. Teams will need exhibition play which leaves five weeks.

    The two sides are divided on not just how the revenue is shared in terms of percentages but they’re divided on the actual revenue system, the language, the categories, who qualifies for what and when. There’s a mountain of issues beyond that and another mountain that could and probably will arise from whatever revenue sharing system is renewed or adopted.

    There will not be NHL hockey in October unless a sudden and dramatic change happens.

    • shiram says:

      That all seems pretty obvious to me.

    • Gerry H says:

      It would be an understatement to say that hockey in October is looking unlikely, but the horse hasn’t bolted yet. I share your view that Fehr has Bettman on his heels right now, Tom, and I think that has injected a level of unpredictability into all of this. I wouldn’t be shocked if they came up with a face-saving deal on one or two big (money) issues and then rolled the rest for at least the short-term.

      Today’s abrupt cancellation has all the earmarks of “hmm, let us take a look at this and get back to you tomorrow.”

      Just playing Piglet to your Eeyore.

      • TomNickle says:

        When Bettman gets to the point that he realizes the smaller market owners are revolting against him, he’ll make a public statement that the other owners should be more open to the ideas that the Players’ Association are presenting. Until that happens, it’s non-business as usual in my opinion.

        Fear for his job or his removal from it will be the only saving graces of these negotiations in my view.

    • mksness says:

      the big question is how many games can the weaker franchises go without breaking or without running into serious financial issues.

      It creates a huge issues for the owners becuase you don’t want teams to drop out and the players don’t want too lose jobs.

  43. commandant says:

    Owner’s proposal: 5 year max deals.

    Individual Owners: Philly, Minnesota, Montreal, Edmonton, Carolina, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Vancouver, Tampa Bay.
    Can’t sign those 6+ year deals fast enough this summer.

    Thats 9 teams just off the top of my head, all with deals signed since July 1st… 4 of them (Montreal, Philly, Minny, Carolina) have multiple deals.

    Edit: 9 teams, forgot Tampa Bay.

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  44. HabFanSince72 says:

    A friend of a friend’s sister in law’s boyfriend is friends with a CCM rep, who says the teams have not ordered any hockey equipment this year.

    Says the season’s canceled for sure.


    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  45. christophor says:

    It’s pretty embarrassing watching people take sides in this thing.

    Will make me only an occasional visitor here until the on-ice product is back.

    I know, I know, “good riddance”, “don’t let the door hit you on the way out”, and all that. Thanks.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Christopher, don’t understand why you’re embarrassed by the debate. It’s what this site is all about and the CBA or lack thereof is one of hockey’s big topics. We’d all like to be gearing up to for the season with more player talk but it is what it is. Hang in there. We’ll get through this.

      ———————————–

      • christophor says:

        sure. talk about it. that’s not the embarrassing part.

        imposing sports-fandom on business negotiations and making silly little criticisms like “the players aren’t deciding to stop hockey” is embarrassing.

        • bleedhabs81 says:

          silly little criticisms like “players aren’t deciding to stop hockey” is embarassing to you?? really?

          Well, now I am not telling you about the time I sharted on the subway before a job interview…

  46. habsnyc says:

    What the players say in August when they have yet to miss a paycheck is very different from what they might say in December, having missed several paychecks. What they say on twitter matters little to the negotiations.

    NLPA members get big salaries playing for teams that are not viable and lose money. Maybe revenue sharing is the answer, except, the amount shared is excluded from the pie that the players and owners divide. Some rules would have to be put in place to assure that teams do not deliberately tank to get more money. Or maybe the owners get the players to cave and kick the can down the road another seven years.

    Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

  47. Kooch7800 says:

    Bartolo Colon tests positive for Testosterone…..I would have thought it was for cheese burgers.

    Two steroid suspensions in a week. MLB hasn’t solved the problem and probably never will.

    Can’t believe no one in hockey has been caught yet.

    • shiram says:

      I think the NHL is spared the testosterone abuse because adding too many pounds of muscle could slow and hinder a player’s movement/agility. It’s a rare sight to see a hockey player as muscle bound as Canseco, Mcgwyre etc..

      • Kooch7800 says:

        I am thinking of steroids for recovering from an injury more than muscle growth.

          • Kooch7800 says:

            no need to be sorry. My original comment was on a testing positive for testosterone so I can see how i wasn’t clear. I would bet that there are players in every sport using it for injury recovery. Baseball seems to get caught the most though for muscle building steroids

            It can be tough to gain muscle though for hockey players as well. When you are on the ice and doing so much cardio it is tough to gain mass. My cousin was an LA kings draft pick and is 6 foot 1 and couldn’t get his weight over 185 pounds. He tried for years but it just didn’t work out. He played in the AHL and that was about it.

    • habsnyc says:

      a player can use steriods all off season and not be tested. they can take hgh during the season to recover from injury and not be tested. they can take testosterone the day of a game and not be tested. they can take ambien or greenies during a game and not be tested.

      Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

  48. Oh man Neuvirth, Caps young goalie just screwed himself by making these comments. Saying Holtby is a weak competition and then taking shots at captain Ovi. Wow..

    http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/#clip744511

  49. kempie says:

    For owners who claim they want no contracts longer than 5 years, they sure do sign a lot of 7-10 year contracts.

    • B says:

      They can’t just unilaterally decide to hold the line, that would be collusion. They need to get things like that in the CBA to avoid exposing themselves to collusion law suits. I think a good compromise for the next CBA would be to just have each year of a contract hold the same salary and cap hit. The lack of being able to front load a contract would not only help to avoid rich teams trying to screw over poorer teams, but may also make many of those very long term contracts less palatable.

      • commandant says:

        Collusion on refusing to give out deals this summer would be near impossible to prove. Things change in the last few months of a CBA.

        Go Habs Go!
        Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • TomNickle says:

          If the NFL can’t be be successfully litigated against for punishing two teams who violated unwritten spending rules during an uncapped regular season than nobody will be able to prove collusion to a court regarding professional sports any time soon.

      • kempie says:

        I absolutely agree with that. The front-loading causes a truckload of problems. It would fix a lot of problems if the salary matched the cap hit from year to year. You don’t necessarily have to have the same cap hit each year, although that would reign in the 10-year contracts for sure, but the averaging of the salary to get the cap # is ridiculous.

  50. bwoar says:

    “All the rules and everything that goes with the CBA currently are from decisions they brought into us last time and the one thing you kinda ask is, if it’s not working — and they say the system’s not working — why not change the system?”

    That disingenuous. 2 sides sat at the bargaining table, 2 sides signed an agreement, 2 sides walked away. The players were an equal partner in the last CBA, yet every player is now blaming the owners 100% for a broken system.

    I don’t see the value in career hockey players commenting openly on high-level business negotiations, frankly. The players’ use of social media in this round of “Let’s Break A Deal” just feels silly from everyone who’s commented so far and makes me think less of them. It’s a tactic the PA is using to win the PR battle, but to me, it’s a cynical move that wins over the least business-oriented hockey fans; a dog-and-pony show of solidarity that will fold behind the scenes, by which time the public will be so used to hating on the owners, they’ll have forgotten that millionaires paid to play a beloved sport are publicly putting themselves before the fans of the game.

    How can I abide my kids to cheer for this hockey ‘hero’ or that one, who goes around on Twitter, essentially saying, “Let’s just play hockey (But not before we slag the greasy ownership for wanting to negotiate a new deal!)”

    There were 2 sides during the last negotiation, and 2 during this one. Gorges and his young comrades seem to forget that, in this moment.

    • neumann103 says:

      If you just wrote 100% the opposite of everything you wrote, you would have a great post.

      I am on a smartphone at the zoo and composing a rebuttal is mechanically difficult so i will defer to Ben or Norm or Gerald or another sentient poster to put this in context.

      “Et le but!”

      • bwoar says:

        I am curious what you guys think of people who have no background in business, and in many cases only a cursory understanding of the economics, if any, commenting on negotiations over 3.3 billion dollars.

        I’m not talking about Jane or John HIOPoster, I mean hockey players who may or may not have been exposed to much of the business end of CBA negotiations, except for a union rep or a point-form of their own side’s documents, framing the entire proceedings for the public.

        Reading comments here I get the sense that the general fan is lapping it up without much second thought.

    • commandant says:

      Go look at the opening proposal of the Owners in the summer of 2004.

      Look at the CBA signed in the summer of 2005.

      The two are nearly identical.

      Characterizing the 2004-05 CBA negotiations as a give and take process is disengenious. The owners broke the union by locking them out for a year. within days of signing the deal, Goodenow was out. Within a few more months, Ted Saskin followed. The NHLPA was an organization in shambles, fractured, and characterized by infighting and cliques until Fehr was brought on board.

      To say this deal was what both wanted, seems off.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • B says:

        To say that the owners got everything they wanted also seems off. While the players conceded to a salary cap and a roll back, they also achieved significant changes to free agent eligibility and got 14% more of the defined revenues than the teams got. I have little sympathy for either side in this, but hindsight now seems to reveal that the players ended up doing better than ever under the current CBA.

      • bwoar says:

        It’s a fact that both signed it. Both sat down, and the better party won. C’est la guerre! It’s unbecoming to see the million dollar complainers come out of the woodwork after the fact. Sour grapes, pouting, blame-a-thon tweeting & media whoring: none of it helping to get a deal done here in 2012. I won’t deny the PA as an organization was left bloody by the last negotations, but the last deal worked out PRETTY F’N GOOD for Capt. Eddie B Skates-A-Lot. A fact that seems lost in the current war for public opinion.

  51. HabinBurlington says:

    Taylor Hall, 7 year extension at $6 mill. per season.

    Interesting how all the teams, rich or poor are signing many players under the terms of the old agrement even before contracts expire. Wouldn’t that indicate both sides were actually okay with the previous agreement?

    • commandant says:

      That contract is a little crazy IMO.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • Cal says:

        100% agree. Would change that to a lot crazy.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        A very talented player, who also appears to play a fearless or reckless style which has led to injuries in both of his first two seasons. I don’t doubt the talent of Hall, but wonder how well he will manage himself through his career.

        Quickly the Oilers find themselves in the top 1/3rd of the league already in caphit spending for the upcoming season.

    • Bripro says:

      And yet the owners are asking that, in the next CBA, there be a limit on the length of contracts, as well as re-ajusting the cap to allow small-market teams to be monetarily sound.
      How can a seven-year contract be allowed by Buttman during the negotiations?
      And what happens to the Oilers if our dollar tanks again?
      What a bunch of buffoons!

  52. B says:

    Prior to the current CBA, no player ever had a career salary totalling $100M or more.

    Since the current CBA, 2 players have gone over $100M in career salary (Jagr and Lidstrom). 2 players (Richards and Lecavalier) are under signed contracts that will take their career earnings well over $100M and there are many others well on pace to join the club. 6 players (Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Crosby, Sutter, Parise and Weber) have all signed single contracts (not their entire careers) of $100M or more under the current CBA.

    The players seem to be doing very well under the “huge sacrifice” that is the current CBA.

    • commandant says:

      The Players don’t want to change the CBA… they aren’t the ones asking for more and they aren’t calling this CBA a “huge sacrifice”.

      Its the owners, who basically won negotiations 7 years ago, got almost everything they asked for and more from their opening position in 2004, and now can’t live with the CBA.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • B says:

        Of course the players don’t want to change the current CBA, they are doing extremely well under it and are now getting by far the largest contracts in the history of the NHL. It is working very well for them.

        I was paraphrasing what I have heard Fehr say when I wrote “huge sacrifice”. A quick internet search turned up Fehr talking about the players giving up stunningly large concessions and enormous concessions for the current CBA. To me, this basically the same as saying huge sacrifice.

        http://www.montrealgazette.com/hockey/nhlnews/NHLPA+reach+important+stage+talks+collective+bargaining/7124218/story.html

        http://m.si.com/news/wr/wr/detail/5053588/full;jsessionid=3ED0DB1C08DCE4154EAACD8E60A4E887.cnnsi2

        • commandant says:

          At the time, the owners got everything they wanted… Players salaries would be even higher if the Players got their way last time.

          Go Habs Go!
          Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
          http://lastwordonsports.com/

          • B says:

            I don’t recall the NHL asking for the changes to free agent eligibility that were made under the current CBA. I also don’t recall them initially asking for a salary cap at 57%. So no, I don’t agree with you that the owners got everything they wanted. The current CBA was reached under a significant amount of negotiations and involved some give and take from both sides, even if the players did end up conceding to a salary cap and a roll back.

            My point remains that the players are still thriving and doing even better than ever under the current CBA. So while I have little sympathy for either side, I certainly don’t see the players as being hard done by under the current CBA. The players seem to be doing very well.

  53. Habfan10912 says:

    Reports say Bettman and Fehr met this morning and the talks scheduled for this afternoon have been canceled. I wonder if a new proposal is being put together?

    ———————————–

    • Habilis says:

      Yeah I just saw that on TSN. Could it be that some urgency has actually managed to creep into these talks?

      • B says:

        More likely both sides are still trying to calmly play their game of brinkmanship. History seems to show that Bettman (2 lockouts) and Fehr (4 strikes) will stretch out this staring contest way too long until one of them blinks and the inevitable deal is reached.

        • Habilis says:

          Yeah you’re probably right about that. Too bad they can’t just skip ahead to that part right now. Of course that would require foresight, which is basically a foreign concept to these goofs.

        • Habfan10912 says:

          Could be B. I tend to lean towards the optimistic side.

          ———————————–

          • B says:

            I strongly hope that you are right and that they can come to an agreement without having to miss any games. Unfortunately, Bettman and Fehr’s history makes me very pessimistic on that happening. A shame really, I do wish they could take a better (and more expedient) approach to getting it done.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Or perhaps Bettman forgot his soother at his New York office and couldn’t go an entire afternoon without. :)

  54. habsfan0 says:

    Today’s NHL NHLPA meeting canceled.

  55. frontenac1 says:

    Agree 100%. As I posted a couple of weeks ago,Fehr is one savy Hombre. That look on Bettmans face after the players presented their response was like he just got kicked in the sack. Priceless!

  56. habsfan0 says:

    I really don’t believe either the owners or the players want a work stoppage. So, a possible(temporary)solution would be to extend the current CBA for 1 more year,which will allow cooler heads on both sides to negotiate an equitable deal for everyone.

    Too unrealistic?

    • Habfan10912 says:

      I don’t think so Habsfan0. I think the players proposal has given the owners some room to maneuver. The scary part for me is the number of teams losing money and the amount of “give backs” they require to make money. Let’s hope the big 6 are running this show and not the bottom 6.

      ———————————–

    • neumann103 says:

      Player already offered this. League flatly rejected it.

      The 2004 (current) CBA is roughly 100% the owners terms. Helps put it in content of who is being more unreasonable and which side is more interested in just playing the damnrf season.

      I think the eventual CBA will look nothing like either side’s initial proposal .

      My own gut feel is that we will miss the first third of the reason

      “Et le but!”

  57. Kooch7800 says:

    Don’t worry guys, the season will start but close to December. There is no way they are going to let the $$$$ at stake with this year’s winter classic go away. Toronto vs Detroit will be a huge draw and the NHL and TV know this

    • Cal says:

      Do you actually think that Fehr gives a crap? Or Bettman?
      They’ll lose the season and there will be a lot of finger pointing, but no progress.
      Those who think either of these guys (who get paid anyway, season or no) worry about what we think other than what stupid spin they can feed us on the negotiations will have their eyes opened. Neither side cares about their “captive” audience. Frankly, they don’t deserve us.

      • Kooch7800 says:

        Cal, I 100% agree they don’t deserve us and the fans are overpaying dearly to watch a hockey game.

        Reality is $ talks and the revenue’s from NBC contracts and games like the winter classic are huge. That is why the outdoor games are now an annual event. They are a cash cow to watch a crappy outdoor game. Mark my words…the winter classic will happen

  58. New says:

    I think both sides want to find a system that benefits everybody without either side losing and with both sides making more. By more I mean money. They all want more money.

    If the players walked en masse and formed their own teams would you watch?

    If the owners locked out the players and brought in CHL and AHL players would you watch?

    The answer to both questions is likely yes. You’d watch the best product available and think all other products less. We’d all nod and say thoughtful things like “There’s more scoring.”

    What they are discussing is really if it is in their interests to not ice any product while they argue how to make more. To withdraw the players from the market.

    So really the work stoppage is not about players or owners but you. You are supposed to sit quietly by with no alternate games allowed while they sort out how much you’ll pay for the product. Like taking the Stanley Cup the NHL has declared itself the sole service provider and you go along with it.

    Cool. Meanwhile, back at the Farm, Nathan MacKinnon and a few others are really worth the watching. He is already as good as anybody that went in this year’s draft but not as glib at the microphone. His games will probably be blacked out across Canada anyway because BGL is trying to unionize them all.

  59. Kooch7800 says:

    TFP is saying that the Sabres were the ones with the crazy 4 year deal for Doan at around 7 to 7.5 per:

    http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/buf120821.html

  60. tyshow89 says:

    unrelated, but I would seriously consider Eberle for Subban straight up if the offer ever presented itself. just because we seem to have a few defensive prospects… not that I have anything against subban.

  61. gerrybell says:

    why doesnt the government just step in and legislate the hockey players back to work without the right to strike? hockey should be declared an essential service for canadians and the players stripped of their union rights. seems to be the way the gov deals with labour strife now. [doctors, nurses, teachers, rail workers]

    i am being facetious for those who lack the basic understanding of sarcasm.

    g
    b

  62. habfan53 says:

    Watched an episode of Murdoch Mysteries last night and they paid a player $5 agame that was the beginning of the end.

    Like the DODGERS “Wait till next year”

  63. shiram says:

    Rumours about the Sabres being the team from the East to offer 30 millions over 4 years to Shane Doan.
    edit : here’s the source : https://twitter.com/Buccigross/status/238093289876774912

  64. naweed235 says:

    According RDS Markov is suing his insurance broker for 1.2$ millions…looks like with a lockout season ahead, players are trying to get every penny they can in one way or another… Remember the Heatley story a couple of days ago…
    Gotta feel bad for them… I mean how else are their families going to be able to eat at DaVinci every night…

  65. accp says:

    it will never be 50/50 for the players. you make $20 an hour. the owner makes $60. Hockey players are no different. they don’t have any overhead.

    • TomNickle says:

      Their overhead is their personal lives. But having said that, your point is precisely why the players have the leverage this time around.

    • JUST ME says:

      I too agree with you that an owner is an owner and an employee does not have the same status cause he does not take as many risks as the owners.

      But there are things hard to understand. Why the stupid deals ? How can they justify their financial problems if they do not discipline themselves ?

      In real life the law of the jungle rules. Why would the NHL be protected from it? Why protect at any cost the weak animal from the lion ?

      Of course the players also want to protect jobs at all cost but something is still not equally fair for everyone and every team.

  66. Chuck says:

    Tough to side with the owners until they do everything they can to get their own financial house in order. As Gorges says, the current CBA was what the owners wanted. To ask the players to make up for financial mistakes of the last 5 years seems like folly.

    ___________________________________________________
    Being a Hab fan is like buying real estate: only over the long-haul will you appreciate the true value of your investment.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      In hindsight, while Ted Saskin may have been distrustful to the players in reading their emails, he ended up negotiating a pretty good deal for the players while providing the appearance that the owners won the negotiations.

      All that has happened since the last work stoppage is that the players salaries have increased. The age for Free agent status was lowered, and the teams had to open up their books finally in order to make the agreement binding and workable.

      THe reality of the last CBA is that Bettman got his salary cap, but the structure of it, (Besides the intial rollback) was not good for the owners, in particular the weaker sisters.

      I see no reason that Fehr will not be able to do a simliar thing this time. Bettman and his team of lawyers have proven to be incompetent, as the very own plan they crafted didn’t work. Look how they have handled the Coyotes, again complete mishandling.

      Aside from selling franchises to poor ownership groups and having his buddy Snider convince NBC (whom he indirectly has ties to) what has Bettman accomplished?

      • Saskin got the players a sick deal last time and got ZERO credit from the players. He was derided at the time but in retrospect he was the best thing that ever happened to their union.

        It`s time to give Saskin the credit he is due for the CBA he crafted.

        Telio

        The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site: http://teliopost.com/
        Twitter: @teliopost

        • HabinBurlington says:

          I don’t disagree and have posted similar comments. He figured out that Bettman is not as bright as he thinks he is and was able to give Bettman what he thought was the world, when in reality the deal turned out in the players favour (provided revenues increased).

          His gamble was Revenues increased, had they not increased the players would probably be the ones asking for a new deal now.

          Saskin did end of day, get the players a very respectable deal.

          By the way, notice you have proclaimed your website as “The Greatest Canadiens news site” Is this endorsed by anyone beside yourself? ;-)

  67. TomNickle says:

    @maxamillion,

    Regarding the owners and players. You’re of the opinion that it’s NHL or nothing for the players during these negotiations. I have news for you, there are alternatives.

    The KHL – the league where more North American born players defect to than Russian or European players when leaving the NHL.

    In addition to the KHL you have the SEL, The Swiss League, SM-Liga, The Czech league and some more financially stable players can just keep in shape, take a year off.

    The players are in no more of a position of weakness with a lockout than the owners, in fact it’s the opposite. Where the players lose and the owners don’t is brand recognition. If a player falls from grace during a stint with a European league team his value decreases when the lockout ends, not so for the teams. However, this is a young man’s league and there will always be somebody ready to replace said player.

    Donald Fehr isn’t stupid. He realizes this much or he would’ve been at the bargaining table much earlier than July.

    You seem to think that because the players didn’t do incredibly well for themselves last time around that history is likely to repeat itself. Donald Fehr isn’t Bob Goodenow.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      There are options, but I don’t believe that most North American born players really want to play in the KHL for more than parts of 1 season there. The lifestyle is not even remotely close, and for the families life would be uncomfortable. However, as a stop gap during work stoppage, yes it provides adequate income.

      I also heard that Fehr had the players set aside a significant portion of last years salaries in order to be prepared for this upcoming stoppage.

      Given the momentum of the recent NBC ratings, the owners may actually regret a stoppage more than the players this time around. Teams like Nashville, Florida, Tampa and Carolina were beginning to get excitement around their teams. A significant stoppage with NFL, Baseball, College sports, NBA ongoing will hurt these owners.

      It truly is in the owners best interest to find a way to make a deal feasible for them.

    • Cal says:

      Tom, many of those “NHL players” go to the KHL because not one team in the NHL offers them a contract. All those leagues are well and good for the “average” NHL player making $2mill/season or less, but not so for those making more. They simply don’t have the fan base nor the gate receipts to overpay for a player who may be gone in a month.
      Further, I don’t think there are any players willing to lose the big paycheque, considering the shortness of their careers (about 4 or 5 seasons, on average).
      The owners are doing their best to take more from the players, and it’s the lower paid ones who will put the most pressure on Fehr, not the already rich ones.
      The few owners that do have monetary pressure may not be in a position to influence the ownership group.
      Still, I would hope they resolve this but have zero expectations that they will.

    • shootdapuck says:

      KHL a viable alternative to top-end NHL players?

      You must be joking and surely have never experienced post Soviet Russia!

      Quick cash grab for non-Russian players who will not sign a two-way contract yes.

      In an age where players sign for lifestyle, money and happy wife reasons the KHL is not on the radar!

      Spend some time in Novosibirsk or Khabarovsk and see if a spoiled NHL superstar or his spouse would spend more than a day there without a chartered G5 on standby!

      Not even considering the security both personal and home issues.

      =================================================
      The cerebral insight of PJ Stock:

      “Le problem est Markov n’a pas jouer un seul game cette annee”
      “Louis Leblanc est un kid locale”
      ” I have a pet peeve”

  68. Max_a_million says:

    This is an interesting article in the gazette:

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Without+French+factor+Canadiens+just+aren+same/7123470/story.html

    I can’t say I completely agree, as no one plays harder than Cole and Gionta. A lot of us from Northern US border towns (ala Cole), are well steeped in the tradition as well. Many of us are of French heritage as well, tying us in deeper. Also didn’t Bouillon grow up in Quebec, even if he wasn’t born there? At least Colby and PK grew up Habs fans.

    Still I think the team could use the fire a good dose of French Quebec players could hopefully bring. Or has that era passed? Does it mean nothing anymore? Can Marc Bergevin bring that aspect of it back, and the players to go along with it? Does it matter in this day and age?

    Wouldn’t it make sense at the draft table and free agency that should two players be presented at an approximately equal caliber, that we choose the French one? That’s my biggest gripe with things like overlooking Claude Giroux. I understand all GM’s hit and miss, and we have done well of late hitting. That everyone can be second guesses. That guys with incredible athletic abilitly like AK and Anze are incredibly difficult to distinguish between when they are 18.

    I would like more French in my Flying Frenchman please. Let the Canadiens Fly!

    It is funny that we have a lot of non-french guys with French names in the system though Proust, Bourque, Beaulieu …

    • Garbo says:

      I agree. And I think MB’s new Quebec-only scouting team will help us improve in that manner.

    • Cal says:

      Roy was almost 21 when he raised the Cup, not 18. Otherwise, local players do try harder (apparently).

    • shiram says:

      I see no logic in saying a Québecois would play better in a Habs jersey than in another jersey, and yet it’s being used as an argument for the French Canadian/Québecois all the time without anything to back it up.
      Sure would love some Québecois on the team, but I’d rather have a competitive team, and it’s easier finding a good player than finding a good french speaking Québecois.

    • JUST ME says:

      I agree in essence with what the gazette states. I too think that Marc Bergevin seems to be puting in place a system that will change things.

      The only problem i have with that reality and those goals is that they do not have to be delt with at any price. Sometimes it just cannot be done for many reasons and the team gets blamed anyway.

      Yes fenchies do play with more heart but things have changed. More teams,more players from more countries and money money money…

    • Trisomy 21 says:

      AK was by all means scouted to be the better player than Giroux. If you’re going to just draft the francophone who’s off the board to keep the French influence on the team you will easily ruin the team. I could flip the tables and say you get guys like Leblanc over Kreider or Johanson. I bet others could come up with better examples of that though.

    • commandant says:

      Yeah, we should definetely go for the French thing at the draft table.

      I mean we could have had Antoine Lafleur instead of PK Subban.
      or
      Angelo Esposito instead of Ryan McDonagh
      or
      David Perron instead of Max Pacioretty

      and on and on and on….

      Take the best player available… rarely if ever are two players exactly equal in talent.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

  69. DorvalTony says:

    Millionaires respond to the billionaires. They’ll all be fine.

  70. Cal says:

    Expecting the NHL owners and the NHLPA to agree to something mutually beneficial is akin to saying the Moon is made of cheese despite all evidence to the contrary.

  71. HabinBurlington says:

    I feel as though I have almost been converted. Donald Fehr has done an excellent job of making his point with the players and has them talking in very simple and sensible terms. I am not Pro Player, just as I am not Pro Owner. But when one compares the rhetoric which each side has presented, it is getting extremely difficult to have any empathy for the owners.

    Perhaps, this is a good sign, and the powerful owners will put their feet down and just continue with an agreement which is very similar to the last CBA.

    And in other news, ever wondered how to become the Doctor for an NHL team? Well in Dallas you simply bid the highest amount to be the Team Doctor.

    http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/08/20/the-dallas-stars-and-the-semi-shady-dealings-of-auctioning-off-the-role-of-team-doctor/

    • TomNickle says:

      I maintain that Donald Fehr is going to eat Gary Bettman’s lunch and that this will inevitably result in Bettman’s dismissal.

      The PA’s initial proposal was more malicious than it’s getting credit for. In my mind it was designed at its core to divide the owners with two potential results being the goal.

      1. The owners begin to think outside of the box.
      2. They begin to bicker and the less wealthy stand up to the ridiculously wealthy(Jacobs, Snider).

      I believe that unlike the last lockout the players are in a position of strength. The favour of media and fans lies with the players and there are European leagues willing to pay NHL players equal money when compared to NHL owners. That’s the big one for me Gerald. The KHL, SEL and SM-Liga can afford to keep these players financially stable during a lockout.

      I think that if the owners decide to play hardball and lock the players out, they’ll find that they don’t have the leverage they once did.

      • Max_a_million says:

        Unfortunately the players don’t hold much leverage when the owners are happy enough to lock them out, and they have consistently shown that they have no problem with doing so. You can’t win a game of chicken against someone who is happy enough to collide.

        Only a handful of teams make enough money for not playing games to matter. More teams do better if no games are played.

        • TomNickle says:

          And what NHL players can’t live on a couple hundred grand(nearly tax free) for a year?

          People feel that because the players came to the table last time around that they crumbled. Far from it. They had cowardly leadership but at the end of the day they still came away with a better than fair deal.

          The notion that they’re weak in a situation like this is laughable with around a half dozen leagues around the World ready, willing and able to pay competitively for their services.

          The players have other places where they can be paid for their services if even on a short term basis. The owners can’t run a successful NHL without the players. So we’ll see.

          • Max_a_million says:

            There really aren’t any other choices. The best talent is in the NHL. NHL teams actually pay people for the most part, it’s all first class, and this is is just where the players want to be. There are no leagues taking away the best players at this time from the NHL. So that just isn’t true.

            Also, I don’t think you could find anyone credible who says the players did anything but lose on the last agreement. They lost a season of pay, had their salaries slashed across the board, and had their salaries capped.

            Yes, they managed their way around it in the end through owners and GM’s who simply can’t help themselves combined with agents who are very creative. They may do so again.

            No I am not sad for players who make millions, but being honest they hold no leverage and will play for whatever line the owners choose to stand behind just as in the past.

          • TomNickle says:

            We’re talking about these players having somewhere to play in the event of a lockout, not players signing in the KHL, SEL or other leagues in the meantime(which does happen by the way).

            I don’t know where you’re coming up with the thought that these guys won’t have somewhere to play during a lockout. And the NHL is the best league in the World but if it’s shutdown, there is no NHL, so it therefore is not the best league in the World at a time when it isn’t operating.

            Both sides have a ton of money, both lose a ton during a lockout. If you want to tow the Owner’s line that the players have no alternative to the NHL you’re more than welcome to, but you’re wrong.

          • Max_a_million says:

            Sure many will have places to play during a lockout, but I don’t believe that is leverage for them. I don’t think the owners really care if they do or don’t. There won’t be good paying spots for a lot of them either.

            I would dare say that with the NHL being played by such young men that many of them are really weak in financially planning. How many 20 year olds are good at saving? There will be a big hurt after a few missed paychecks.

            In the end the owners want what they want, and the players have far less cards. Yes superstars will be okay in any circumstance, but the league is full of guys who are not superstars. The superstars are few.

          • TomNickle says:

            How many of those 20 year olds live on their own? Those twenty year olds can easily sign a six figure contract overseas. You’re looking for financial instability that isn’t there.

          • Max_a_million says:

            Think what you want, but the truth is many of the players having trouble paying their bills without regular paychecks. It just is. The majority of 20 year olds in this world have the same issue, it doesn’t matter if you want to acknowledge it or not.

          • TomNickle says:

            Right. Twenty year old NHL players who’ve signed five and six figure signing bonuses and live at home with their parents still will end up in financial turmoil.

            Wow.

      • Gerry H says:

        I think Tom has it right. A lockout only makes sense for the owners if the savings from the new CBA outweigh the losses incurred during the lockout. It certainly worked in 2005, but circumstances are different now. The PA has better leadership, they have the benefit of the 2005 experience and they have, as Tom pointed out, better playing options during any potential lockout.

        My sense is that solidarity will play a big role in this one, just as it did the last time, only the edge has switched to the PA. That improved PA leadership and planning should minimize the infighting that occurred last time. By contrast, the rich man/poor man imbalance on the ownership side is bound to generate heat. How the heck can NJ and Phoenix survive a lost season of revenues (player salaries are not their only expenses)? What about teams like Florida that have picked up a little precious momentum revenue-wise? How much of that are they ready to surrender?

        Even Bettman has a lot of skin on the line here. Having finally secured a half-decent US TV deal, how much risk to that can he tolerate?

        I agree with Tom. The last lockout cost Goodenow his job. If there is one this time, I think we’ll be waving good-bye to Bettman.

    • Cal says:

      With $3 billion at stake and no negotiations of any kind before the owners said they wouldn’t renew the CBA, both sides are at fault. Lockouts and strikes are “last resort” weapons, not negotiating tools. Both sides ignore fans, and blame each other instead of working out a deal. They are all self-absorbed dorks and deserve each other.

      • TomNickle says:

        One side is willing to continue business as usual while negotiations take place, the other side is threatening a lockout. One side proposed a system that would keep less stable franchises above water by sacrificing THEIR OWN money, the other is demanding even more.

        These two sides need each other, but it’s been proven time and again that only one side realizes that.

    • savethepuck says:

      Maybe one side is better at PR than the other because what I’m reading is:
      The players- “let’s get a deal done that makes both sides happy and gives the fans the game they love”
      The owners- “it’s our way or the highway, we’re the bullies, do what we say or we’ll lock you out”
      I am not nieve enough to not put blame on both sides, but these are the messages I am getting when listening to reports from both sides. It’s also probably the main reason I hear most siding with the players.

      “They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
      Carey Price

  72. headbanger33 says:

    This is all Carey Price’s fault.

  73. Max_a_million says:

    I am on the player’s side, but this is really boring. I wish there was actual hockey news to talk about.

  74. jon514 says:

    We idolize players when they perform well; We raise them up and call them heroes. Nothing about hockey seems very heroic right now.

    “This Team is Less than the sum of it’s parts while Gomez is one of those parts.”

  75. commandant says:

    Media outlets like ratings.

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  76. CharlieHodgeFan says:

    You can be the number one without being a legitimate number one. He may still be behind Markov on this team. Subban is not yet a shutdown guy, or a scorer. His game is young, and he makes a huge number of mistakes. He’s a kid – a prospect early in his career.
    He’s only number one because the Habs are not a contender. He’s a top four guy now, and may pan out in 2-3 years as a legitimate number one – we’ll see. The jury is still out.
    Desjardins was better than Brisebois, but the hype in English and French was that the breeze was a star in the making. Until he stayed frozen at the level of an error prone, unstrategic defenceman, Brisebois looked good. It was his failure to develop beyond a certain point that mattered in the long run, but his early career looked interesting.

    P.K. scored seven goals. Remember that. I would not trade him, and I think he may be as good an asset as Price in a few years. But you are overly optimistic if you think he has arrived. He ain’t there yet.

  77. halfnthebag says:

    CharlieHodgeFan… ‘Only #1 because he doesn’t play on a contender”??? Really. So Tavares isn’t a good scorer, but he is, only because he isn’t playing on a contender??

    I get he’s young has made some mistakes, but you can’t deny what this kid brings to the rink every single game. The kid is maturing and is keeping part of himself that many have issue with, but on the overall this kid could be #1 on any number of teams (20) in this league.

    But its odd… Brad Marchand can be praised for his greasy sliminess pin balling, kneecap-itating hits – “He’s got spunk” – but Subban made some bad choices (a few) in one season, and all of a sudden he’s ‘reckless’, ‘irresponsible’ and possibly does not have enough talent to be a true number 1.

    Give the kid a break, and watch his development. If you are a Habs fan I hope you regret this critique.

  78. CharlieHodgeFan says:

    Just read. I expect he will be a number one. His bad decisions aren’t the chippiness, mouthiness etc. They are young defenceman mistakes. He’s not there yet.

    Tavares didn’t score 7 goals and struggle like PK did. He has arrived at a higher level (for now). Respect the learning curve – the kid has potential but he has not arrived. We are desperate for talent in this town, and this very young player is showing a lot. He struggled a lot last season, and had great trouble adjusting. It’ll be a little time before we call this guy a number one.


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