Goalie coach Groulx won’t be back with Habs

Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin announced Monday that the club will not renew the contract of goaltending coach Pierre Groulx (above left in photo with Carey Price) for next season.

“I want to sincerely thank Pierre Groulx for his contribution to the Canadiens’ organization over the past four years,” Bergevin said in a news release. “Pierre is a coach with a strong work ethic, a true professional who largely contributed to the development of our goaltenders. Unfortunately, we have to make the difficult decision today not to renew his contract with the team. I want to wish Pierre the best of luck with the pursuit of his career.”

Groulx joined the Canadiens as an assistant coach on July 6, 2009 and completed his fourth season with the club in 2012-13. Before joining the Canadiens, he worked for the Florida Panthers and Ottawa Senators.

This past season, Price posted a 21-13-4 record with a 2.59 goals-against average and a .905 save percentage during the regular season. In the playoffs, he had a 1-2 record with a 3.26 GAA and a .894 save percentage. For his career, Price has a 9-17 playoff record with a 2.90 GAA and .905 save percentage. 

The Gazette’s Dave Stubbs wrote a feature story last February on the strong partnership between Price and Groulx.

“I remember when I arrived in Montreal, going home and telling my wife about Carey: ‘This guy has every tool that a goalie wants: he’s big, he’s agile, he has a winning mentality,’ ” Groulx told Stubbs at the time.

Groulx added about Price: “This is a young man who has grown into a mature adult. He has realized that hockey is a business, not just a sport. He has realized he had to see the importance of everything around hockey. It’s not just stepping on the ice and saying, ‘I’m ready to go.’ Every day is a routine. It’s a big lifestyle change.

“He took big steps last summer with his conditioning and his nutrition. He told himself: ‘OK, if I want to be an elite goalie, this is what I need to do.’ I’m proud of him that he understood that.”

After Bergevin took over as GM last summer with Michel Therrien as his new head coach, Groulx was the only assistant coach from the previous regime who kept his job. Quietly, Price made a strong case for keeping Groulx, whom he had got to know and deeply trusted.

“Carey vouched for me last summer, that’s no secret,” Groulx told Stubbs in February. “I know there’s a great trust factor between the two of us. I relate it to a golfer and his caddie. If the caddie hands him a 7-iron and says it’s 140 yards to the pin, the golfer won’t turn back and say: ‘It’s 142 yards.’

“Pricer needs to have the trust in me that what we do on and off the ice is beneficial to him. I have a certain way of working with him and he appreciates that. It helps him. I’m not an in-your-face, rah-rah type of guy. And he relates a lot to his (rural B.C.) roots. He’s an easygoing guy and that’s exactly the way he handles things.

“He’s got the perfect next-shot mentality,” Groulx added. “He’s got the perfect demeanour for this city: ‘OK, we won, my teammates did a great job, now let’s move on.’ Until we accomplish the goal, it’s not good enough.

“We’re a team, partners. We focus on the things that make us better. The friendship we have goes a long way toward making the job easy.”

They’re not partners anymore.

(Photo by Allen McInnis/The Gazette)

Habs goalie coach Groulx won’t be back, by Pat Hickey

Bruins dismantle listless Penguins 6-1, by Bruce Arthur of Postmedia News

Battle-weary Kings return home, by Cam Cole of Postmedia News

Mandatory visor usage to be discussed at meeting, montrealgazette.com

387 Comments

  1. hab fan in leaf jungle says:

    I’ve said that Groulx was too easy on Price unlike Melanson who demanded his goalies work hard in practice. Price got Rollie fired. Now Groulx is fired b/c Price is a thoroughbred and no one in mgmt. wants to admit that Price might be a dud a la Jocelyn Thibeault. Now just fire Timmins and open up the bank vault for any of the Red Wings scouts. Timmins has ruined the Habs over several years. Anyone who drafts AK over Getzlaf, Carter,Richards, Kesler,Parise and a dozen other stars in the NHL who are still stars on their teams knows nothing about how to win Cups. What an idiot. Let’s get him the hell out of there before he drafts any more AKs and Diaz types. Montreal needs players who know how to win a Cup not a bunch of figure skaters with hockey equipment on.

  2. HNS says:

    Pens need a goalie…….Price for Cindy straight up…….Pricebot alert!!!

  3. DorvalTony says:

    Halaaaaaak!

    “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
    William F. Buckley, Jr.

  4. veryhabby says:

    One would have to guess that Price isn’t too happy this morning. He is not only losing his coach but his friend. My son started goaltending last summer. We have gone to various goalie schools as we start helping him develop. But we finally clicked with one teacher, and that’s it. He’s the guy we will continue with. Like any relationship, when there’s a bond, there’s a bond. We have no desire to look elsewhere now. Today Price knows his buddy won’t be there. He knows it’s going to be different. He is probably wondering now, “great now a new guy is going to come here and tell me to do this and change that”. Again, I would have to assume most pro guys don’t want to change something that they enjoy and “works” for them.

    But Therrien is the head coach. And maybe there was something that didn’t click there between the 2 guys. Different view, maybe they never really “bonded”. Maybe MB feels Groulx can’t take Price any further then he has so far. At end of day, they gave Price what he asked for last year. But now they are saying, “it’s time to move on cause how it was wasn’t good enough for this management team.”

    If management feels its the way to go, then it’s the way to go even if Price isn’t too happy today.

  5. s13 says:

    I would see if ed belfour would be interested. He might have been crazy but he was a fiery competitor and that might be what price needs now. The eagle was told he would never win either.

  6. adamkennelly says:

    Habs should hire his junior goalie coach…was it Kolzig??? thought he had something to do with Price’s team…anyways – my opinion – Price was a better goalie before Habs coaches got to him.

    • DorvalTony says:

      Or vice versa.

      “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
      William F. Buckley, Jr.

    • Lokee says:

      I watched Price play in Tri-Cities for 4 years attending every home game and he is pretty much playing the same inconsistent game. He will play a string of 2 or 4 good games then get hit for 6 or 7 goals then go into a mini slump. I think for Carey it is more of a mental situation than it is talent.

  7. Maritime Ron says:

    By Dave Stubbs, February 13, 2013

    “…..Carey vouched for me last summer, that’s no secret,” Groulx said, clearly grateful for the vote of confidence. “I know there’s a great trust factor between the two of us.”
    ” A lot of times, you have to be a friend, just a shoulder. Just to talk, not necessarily about hockey….If I put more pressure on him than there already is, then I’m not helping. Often, it’s just shooting the breeze.”
    ——————-
    It appears the “shooting the breeze” is over.
    Not quite sure if this firing is one of cleaning out the last remnant of the JM era, or the beginning of a new ‘tough love’ approach towards Price – or both.

    This is certainly not a Price bash, yet human nature has shown that it takes a very, VERY, special person to want and achieve his highest level of performance… IF NOT challenged and mollycoddled.
    There are certain segments in our society where money and pensions are guaranteed and where the possibility of being fired is almost nil. These same show lower productivity than others that are continually challenged, and become more occupied with privilege and benefits, than performance.

    While far from Price’s fault or responsibility, he was basically handed the job. When challenged in 2010, the challenger was shipped out of town and replaced by a goalie that was happy to be a supportive #2.
    While that decision to trade the other may turn out well, the ‘urgency’ to do so was questionable.

    Another factor of the ‘no challenge’ theory is also notable in the draft.
    Of the 53 players chosen in the Draft since Price in 2005, the Habs have drafted a total of 2 goalies – a 4th rounder in 2008 ( Jason Missiaen) who is now in the Rangers organization, and a Finn in the 7th round of 2009 and long gone.

    Compare that to the dreaded Bruins.
    They have one of the best goalies in the NHL in just turned 26 year old Rask, and a back up in Anton Khudobin who wants to be a #1.
    So what do they do?
    They use their 1st Round/24th overall to draft goalie Malcolm Subban.
    There will be no complacency or sense of entitlement in the Bruins net moving forward. A single goaltender will not hold them hostage for whatever reason – contract included.

    Here’s hoping that Price is that very special individual, yet placing so much ‘unchallenged trust’ in 1 goaltender is a disservice to all of the organization, the team faithful, and more importantly Carey Price himself.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I wonder if Francois Allaire is on the radar, while he struggled in Toronto, his success stories were Patrick Roy and Jean Sebastien Giguere

      • Maritime Ron says:

        Good Morning burli.
        Who knows? After leaving/being released by the Leafs, he ripped the organization. Of course Burke had to fire back and say Allaire’s methods were outdated alluding to the new hybrid style of a mix of standup and butterfly such as Quick/Lundqvist/Rask/Miller/Renne and Brodeur vs. the robotic butterfly only that Allaire tried and did not have success with both Reimer and Gustavsson

  8. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …from my perspective Groulx not being re-newed is good news, as Carey needs a coach to get Him off His knees, and to work on His glove-hand and reflex/reaction recognition skills

    …from Carey’s perspective I’m not too sure how He will respond

    …Carey is a down-home type where friendship is not a superficial word

    …Carey is at the turning-point in His career where He has to find the next level, and hopefully We find the goalie-coach with the right chemistry to help Carey get there

    • hab fan in leaf jungle says:

      Face it…Price has no next level no matter how much the fans and mgmt. dream. He is an absolute DUD. Remember Jocelyn Thibeault. Price is JT 2.0.

  9. Timo says:

    Crap. Apparently Markov suffered a setback in rehab.

  10. Timo says:

    Gotta give it to Carey… no matter what goalie coach they throw at him he doesn’t budge. Respect.

  11. ClutchNGrab says:

    For those familiar with the French language, here’s an interview with the Blackhawks’ goalie coach Stephane Waite. Not sure when his contract expires but I think that’s the type of coach that could benefit the Habs:

    http://www.985fm.ca/audioplayer.php?mp3=178305

  12. durocher says:

    Iginla and Morrow have been useless.

    Dupuis was competing, even when the Pens were down by a lot.

  13. Marc10 says:

    So just how good is Bylsma?

  14. IMHO says:

    I think Boston learned from the last game against Toronto. Bet they said we almost got eliminated. No more games like that. We have to play 60 minutes of Hockey every game from now on to have a chance at winning the cup.

    That’s exactly what they’re doing. They’re playing like they did the last time they won the cup.

  15. habs001 says:

    I just hope Price gets it together where he can be trusted not to be the goalie that gives up a bad goal in a pressure game..After the way the Habs dominated Ottawa after 2 periods in game one plus the Eller hit elite goalies dont give up goals like Price did in the third….Right now I would trust most of the other countries goalies in a must win game at the Olympics and the game tied in the third…and that goes for other Canadian goalies…

    • habs_54321 says:

      i liked how mike smith played for canada in the whc even though they lost i think he will undoubtedly be the starter, crawford and luongo as alternates although if reimer, dubnyk and holtby duplicate this years stats or better next year i think one of them can make the team over luongo, hopefully bernier gets traded soon and gets a chance to become canada’s go too guy one day

    • kalevine says:

      if price does win in olympics we will really be able to say that he has won at every level…well except one

  16. Sportfan says:

    Boston proves how Stupid Leafs management is and was, Dougie Hamilton, Tyler Seguin and Tukka Rask, am I missing anyone else?

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    • Habilis says:

      I don’t think you’re missing anyone, unless you count that Knight kid, but I think he’s an AHLer right now. However, it could be argued that getting rid of Kessel was addition by subtraction. ;)

    • JF says:

      They gave a pick to San Jose for Vesa Toskala. That pick turned into Logan Couture.

      • The Jackal says:

        Learning that little fact made my night

        ______________________
        Hockey sine stercore tauri.

      • ClutchNGrab says:

        Well, the two picks that San Jose got for Toskala and Mark Bell were traded to St Louis. It’s with the pick they got from the Blues that they selected Couture. The Leafs pick ended up being no other than Lars Eller.

  17. kalevine says:

    It’s interesting reading the comments about Horton. I don’t believe you can transplant him to, say, Montreal and expect the same clutch playoff performance he provides in Boston. It’s too easy to just say, let’s go get this and that guy who was a big performer with Anaheim, or New Jersey or Boston. Pluck them out of a winning environment and ask them to play the same way when most of their teammates are stiffs, that’s not easy. Horton is a key ingredient on an elite team, but what we need is a few leaders who have the power to transform their teammates. The Bruins seem to have a good mix of both

    • hab fan in leaf jungle says:

      Cammy was right. Montreal has a losing environment where neither the fans nor the mgmt. live in the real world. They live in some parallel universe where Carter, Richards, Bergeron, Rask, Quick and the 100 other real players who are still in the hunt for the Cup don’t exist. Montrealers still believe Price is the best thoroughbred, that Markov is Lidstrom, that Diaz is Doughty and that Pacioretty is Horton. Bringing winners from other organizations will only make those guys losers. It’s what happens to guys who come over to the Leafs. The Habs are the same. Come as a winner and leave as a loser. The Habs are perennial losers who refuse to see what it takes to win.

  18. Wintercount says:

    and the light come shining as the West shall beat the East.

    Abraham Lincoln

  19. IMHO says:

    Boston plays in your face Hockey coupled with good Goaltending. Hard to beat.

    • ProHabs says:

      Their management sure knows how to put a team together unlike other teams management who continue to add small, soft players to their team.

    • Brinkley says:

      Boston has a team that was well built for 4 rounds of playoff hockey -great combintaion of size, toughness, physicalty, skill, scoring and solid goaltending.

      Wonder if Bergevin knew how big of a job he has to do to get the Habs to a similar level?

      Gainey & Gauthier were either complely clueless about what type of players they needed in order to compete for the Cup or did know, but just couldn’t get the job done.

  20. JF says:

    Anyone think Bylsma deserves some of the blame for the Penguins’ ineptitude? I’ve had my doubts about him as a coach since our Game Seven against the Penguins three years ago, when he was badly out-coached by Jacques Martin. The next year the Penguins were up 3-1 in their series against Tampa and lost it. Then last year they totally self-destructed against the Flyers, and Bylsma was unable to get the team under any kind of control. Could his job be in danger if they lose this series?

    • EricInStL says:

      He might get a pass but next year might be his do or die year.

    • ProHabs says:

      Good points. His job might be in doubt. I was thinking of his coaching after game 1 and how it seems like he can’t really control the emotions of his players. Game 2 seemed to show that he has trouble making adjustments. From most of the polls, he seems like a popular coach that most players want to play for but he should be able to knock off the Bruins with the talent on his team.

    • habs_54321 says:

      i think it’s getting to that

  21. ProHabs says:

    Nice to see that the Habs are not the only team that is the Bruins bitches.

    • The Jackal says:

      It’s the other way around buddy

      ______________________
      Hockey sine stercore tauri.

      • ProHabs says:

        I wish it was Jack. Unfortunately, when the chips are down, the Bruins are the better team by a wide margin.

        • The Jackal says:

          Can’t argue they are not a good team, but we always rise up to the occasion and give them a game. We haven’t really been made their mistresses.

          ______________________
          Hockey sine stercore tauri.

          • kalevine says:

            agreed, we play them tough and I think we make them nervous, but, other than two magical playoff rounds in 2010, there’s precious little evidence that we could manage that over a 7 game series

          • ProHabs says:

            Habs might be able to give Boston a run for its money in the First Round. But after that no way. Montreal is always so beat up after the first round that there is no way they could win a second round or anything after that. In the first round this year against Ottawa (who are physical but nowhere near Boston), the Habs were down Eller, White, Gionta, MaxPac and probably others that I am forgetting. Montreal doesn’t have a team for the playoffs which is what hockey is all about.

  22. habs001 says:

    Only PK would be among your starting 6d if you had to make a team up from Boston and Montreal…the 12 forwars would be mostly Boston…and yes right now Rask would be the starting goalie…

  23. Timo says:

    How many goals against was Letang on today?

  24. Bun E. Laroque says:

    Marchand is one of those players that really gets under your skin and I’ve expended energy actively disliking him but now I’m actually starting to like him. You can’t deny he gets results. Who is a better playoff performer, Marchand or Malkin ?

  25. Timo says:

    Penguins remind me of the Habs in the first round… lots of useless running around, some lame attempts to look tough and zero substance. Brutal goaltending too and voila – so easy to play against.

  26. Garbo says:

    New Poll:

    Who would Pittsburg give up immediately to have Price in nets (if possible of course)?

  27. mrhabby says:

    Leafs played better than pitt….unreal.

    • habs_54321 says:

      not to take credit away from the leafs they played a very solid series and should have advanced to the next round, saying that this is a different boston team from the one that stumbled into the playoffs, they look like the team that was dominating opposition at the beginning of the year

  28. Phil C says:

    Some people mention that Boston are ranked 26th for weight and 21st for height based on the James Mirtle blog. Those numbers were based on opening night rosters. By dumping players like Chris Bourque (5’8″, 174 lbs) and replacing him with players like Jagr (6’3″, 240 lbs), the playoff Bruins have plenty of size.

    Based on players who have played in the playoffs, average height and weight for the remaining 4 teams:

    Chicago 73.3″ 202.4 lbs
    Penguins 72.9″ 204.7 lbs
    Boston 73.4″ 205.1 lbs
    LA Kings 73.9″ 210.0 lbs

  29. saskhabfan says:

    Remember when the bruins tanked to build this team? Me neither.

  30. EricInStL says:

    This Boston team has the potential to be a multiple Cup winner. With the emergence of Krug, Hamilton waiting in the wings and Seguin not even contributing, it’s scary to think that any team has a chance to compete against them.

    Their D is solid, and their 4 lines can play with anyone.

  31. kalevine says:

    6-1, where have I seen that score before?

  32. L Elle says:

    Maybe Bylsma needs to call a timeout, or Julien. ; )

  33. HardHabits says:

    The thing that makes me the mildly content about this up to now Boston demolishing of Pittsburgh is how crazy and all in Pittsburgh went at the trade deadline to add all the pieces that made them appear to be unstoppable is turning out to be as foolhardy as throwing it all away to climb from 10th to 8th. Boston should maybe thank Pittsburgh for luring Iginla, amongst others.

    • kalevine says:

      here in Boston Iginla is much hated for picking Pitts over Boston. Yet another moral victory for this team that I loathe so much

    • EricInStL says:

      yup adding those players takes away from ice time for the others. Not a good idea to take away from younger legs. Maybe a lesson to other GMs add 1 not 2 star players???

  34. habsfaninboston says:

    Weak Fleury.

  35. Mattyleg says:

    Holy Moly.
    6-1.
    What an embarrassment.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  36. frontenac1 says:

    Engelland had the opportunity to pop Lucic and he backed off? Bad Mojo.

  37. mrhabby says:

    Tyler seguin 1 goal and jagr no goals….the greasers have taken over so far for booins.

  38. EricInStL says:

    No one going after Boychuck reminds me of Buffalo not doing anything after Miller got run over.

    Maybe it’s not a good idea to get hired guns. Not seen as part of the team ?

  39. jedimyrmidon says:

    Follow through with push/check resulting in Morrow’s head into the net’s cross bar? Typical Bruins ‘intimidation’ play.

    • EricInStL says:

      They played very smart, no use gooning it up when the game is on the line.

      The time will come for payback. The end of the game will be interesting. See what Pittsburgh will do. If they do anything. Or can do anything.

  40. Old Bald Bird says:

    The Pens wiped the team that wiped the Habs, but I really feel that Les Boys would have done better against Bahstun. It ain’t over yet, but the large soprano is warming up.

    • kalevine says:

      Habs always play Boston tough, but Bruins have been playing their A+ games since The Leafs took a 4-1 lead in Game 7, and there ws no evidence the Habs were ready to compete at anywhere near that level Look how EVERY Bruin is playing well. THat’s the mark of a winning team. I an’t see anybody beating them now. All those who wanted the leafs to lose, I told you so!

      • Old Bald Bird says:

        I don’t think the Habs could win, but they have been known to play them really well.

        It makes me wonder if the Leafs are pretty good to have come within two minutes of defeating the Bruins.

        • kalevine says:

          sure the Leafs played well, just like habs did in 2011 against the bB’s in round 1. But I really think in both cases the Bruins were just ramping up for the playoff run. Both in 2011 and, so far in 2013, the B’s first round has been the only one where they were really beatable

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Agree. We’re used to playing the Bruins, we know what works. Our guys are smaller and faster, and the Big Bad defencemen can’t keep up with them. They dart in open spaces while the lumbering Chara groans in frustration like Chewbacca. It’s not foolproof, but we’d give these palookas a game at least.

  41. frontenac1 says:

    I’m with you UCE and in that order. The younger lads probably don’t remember those Playoff Wars. Saludos!

  42. boing007 says:

    Penguins are all pits and no burgh tonight.

    Richard R

  43. kalevine says:

    I didn’t realize the Habs were still in the playoffs. i thought the Penguins were going to be the Bruins’ opponent.

  44. JayK-47 says:

    Y U NO WINNING, PITTSBURGH???

  45. zephyr says:

    groulx pays the price for goalie failure. some guys are blind not to see it. nobody was happy with price’s play, not even price. doesn’t mean i hate him. just means he played poorly & was a major reason why the habs were eliminated. seems like that’s the elephant in the room.
    the habs need size mostly on d. only pk & emelin are over 215 lbs. we need 2 more guys with some beef & toughness. tinordi will help if he adds some beef. that may help price though i wonder if his confidence is shot.

  46. Hobie Hansen says:

    What the heck is up with Pittsburgh? Is Malkin or Crosby playing hurt here or what? You look at the Pens on paper her and there’s no explanation for this? They are as flat as flat can be!

    The only guys who have showed up tonight for the Pens are Engelland and Cooke!

  47. habs_54321 says:

    in hindsight i feel like the sens would have matched better with the bruins

  48. boing007 says:

    Gooins are feasting on the Guins.

    Richard R

  49. habs001 says:

    Tale of two Czechs…. Plecks vs Krejci career playoffs…Krejci plus 29…plecks minus 14

  50. HardHabits says:

    I know that I come across as a know it all. See what I did there? So it should come as a surprise to many who have come to also know me intimately, that I gotta say that I know jack squat about sweet F.A.

    Seriously. I thought LA was going to walk all over Chicago and that Pittsburgh was going to skate circles around Boston. Talk about hedging your “size and grit” and “speed and skill” bets on the wrong ponies.

  51. Sportfan says:

    WHY PITTSBURGH WHY

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  52. habsfaninboston says:

    Nice slew foot by the Rat.

  53. Mark C says:

    Little DD even scored twice on Boston this year, yet Crosby, Malkin, Neal, and Iginla can’t get one?

  54. L Elle says:

    Oh the irony…mwahaha. :)

  55. habs_54321 says:

    man everyone who goes to hit lucic always gets the worst of it.

  56. The Jackal says:

    To those who said the Hawks would get rolled over by the tough Kings.
    You were not wrong conceptually, but the Hawks have a response for the Kings toughness and style of play.

    This series, on the other hand, illustrates your point best.
    The Pens have no response to Boston’s physicality combined with skill.
    The Pens are not small, but they are not exactly gritty or intimidating.
    You can see the frustration in the Pens’ game. They need to solve the Bruins and trying to play the Bruins’ game is not one of the right answer choices.

    ______________________
    Hockey sine stercore tauri.

    • hansolo says:

      Average Wt (lbs), Ht (inches), NHL rank in parentheses:

      Pittsburgh 203.3 (17) 73.3 (13)

      Boston 200.0 (26) 72.9 (21)

      Chicago 203.0 (20) 72.3 (29)

      LA 209.7 (2) 73.3 (13)

      Hardly a recommendation for bigger/heavier is better, no?

      • The Jackal says:

        Bigger doesn’t mean grittier and more physical.
        Boston plays that way, we all know the refs don’t really call anything that is not serious, so they easily frustrate other teams that are not used to that style, namely the Pens.

        The Hawks are a grittier/tougher team that was ready for what LA was going to bring.

        That’s the point.

        ______________________
        Hockey sine stercore tauri.

        • C-Sword says:

          The Kings are terrible on the road, they were outplayed by both the Blues and the Sharks, they’re having a hard time scoring, someone like Simon Gagne could’ve helped, Kopitar plays like he doesn’t care, not sure if he’s injured or not, Richards being injured is a huge loss to the team. Hopefully, they can bounce back at home and avoid being swept. The Hawks are a much faster and better team right now.

      • SlovakHab says:

        So Chara has the same icetime as Krug?
        You don’t average it out mate. You want to take in account that Bruins have a 6’9 player on the ice, with the strongest shot in NHL, 25-30 minutes per game.
        Same for Bruins smaller guys. Lucic is tougher than most of 6’4 players in the league. Same for Horton, Thornton etc…

        • hansolo says:

          G’day. Point conceded. You and the Jackal have made my point for me — that just obsessing about siz, as many posters here are wont to do, isn’t enough. If Chara and Lucic were slugs, their size would mean nothing. Similarly, Andrew Shaw is outplaying Kopitar, despite being smaller. Skill still has a role to play.

  57. Howdumbcanube says:

    Don’t know why it’s so hard for some people to figure out. Two of Boston’s tough guys has 3 of the 4 goals and the rest is Goaltending.

    The whole series will come down to toughness and Goaltending like I commented earlier today. Rask like Thomas did. Is showing the way.

    • The Jackal says:

      That’s overly simple.
      Toughness and goaltending?
      It comes down to many more things.

      Those two are a factor, but the Pens’ lack of ability to execute their game plan or to adjust to the problems they are facing have been their undoing. Can’t fault their goaltending much because the Bruins have gotten some great chances.

      ______________________
      Hockey sine stercore tauri.

      • commandant says:

        Its overly simplistic to believe Horton and Lucic are mere tough guys.

        They are tough but also have skill

        Go Habs Go!
        Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • The Jackal says:

          Exactly.

          I didn’t see Horton in Florida much if at all. I wonder if there is some truth to the objections put forward by UCE that he would not play tough if he was a Hab?

          Those kind of players are what we need.

          ______________________
          Hockey sine stercore tauri.

          • Un Canadien errant says:

            I’m not sure if I ever said that exactly. My point, which I’ve made repeatedly, is that Nathan Horton was a disappointment in Florida, playing soft, disappearing for weeks on end, and not throwing his weight around as they expected he would when they drafted him 3rd overall in the great draft of 2003. Only in Boston has he been physical, but again, he’s not so much physical, as a Bob Gainey or Jarome Iginla, but rather chippy, mouthy, dirty. He’s a prime example of the ‘facilitated aggression’ phenomenon, where a tiny dog is all yappy and charges at other bigger dogs, because its master is nearby, and the little dog feels brave because of it. It feels that because its owner is omnipotent, able to open doors, get food out of the fridge and cans, that it will protect it from the pitbull.

            When the rumours started flying around that he might be available for trade, Canucks fans would bandy his name about, thinking he would look good on a line with the Sedins, that he would provide the goals and the grit. Immediately however, that notion was debunked by fans who knew what the deal was with him.

          • Un Canadien errant says:

            Some comments from fan boards. Take it with a grain of salt, but it speaks to the perception of what he was before he had the Big Bad Bruins to back him up. Certainly not a physical presence, or a player with a whole lot of heart.

            “So again, no matter how skilled Horton is, I would much rather trade him for two or three players who have the determination and desire of Booth then watch Horton float around the ice, with no heart and seemingly no desire to win. but hey… It’s Horton and he you never know when he’s going to break out, so we can’t trade him because that would be a huge mistake.”

            “While I would never trade Horton for crappy players, I was merely saying I am tired of watching lazy, uninspired players such as Horton and would much rather have players like Booth.”

            Countrydarts
            January 1, 2009 at 11:34 pm
            Horton is a pretty-boy who’s half-a$$ing it out there.

            Tony
            January 2, 2009 at 6:43 am
            The pulling of the goalies has been justified, they give up bad goals at the wrong times for momentum. Horton has always been touted for his talent but is consistently lazy which has carried over to some of his teammates.

            Timothy
            January 2, 2009 at 10:49 am
            In my opinion, Nathan Horton has landed the furthest below expectation — I rarely see him playing hard, I rarely see him getting good scoring chances, and he’s next to never in the right place at the right time. When he does score, it seems to be junk goals — for example, when we’re down 4 to 1 with 30 seconds left in the game. He’s just not the difference maker (in any facet of his game) that the Panthers have expected him to be.
            I would like to see Nathan moved as he’s just grown just too comfortable with mediocrity and I don’t see that changing on this team.

            Zetor
            January 2, 2009 at 10:07 am
            Don’t trade anyone, no one will give anything in return. Keep Horton, he can’t be worse. It would be like trading Huselius.

            BoB
            January 2, 2009 at 12:17 pm
            Whatever kind of deal Horton made with JM or Satan, congratulations! He’s getting his dollars paid and never gets any threat for his job, living his life. And then DeBoer talks about giving time to ones who earn it, it’s starting to get old if you apply that to half of the team and not the other.
            From that you can figure Horton is the most disappointing and frustrating player to see on the ice. Before these guys were back in the line up we did so much better. Heart on the ice is worth a lot more than talent in a closet.
            I’ve been a supporter of DeBoer even when we were losing, but he’s running out of credit with actions on this issue.
            I’ve been thinking, who can we get for Horton in a deal, how can we package him and so on. No one will want to give much for this nobody guy. But it has come to such a pathetic point that if we could give him away for free, we would benefit a lot just from that. Not having him on the ice and some salary cap space.

            Alex
            January 2, 2009 at 12:30 pm
            Enough with the “Trade Horton” crap. He’s not the only reason why the Panthers are losing. We all knew this would happen once Jokinen was traded. Horton will never be the BATMAN of a team. He’s more of a ROBIN. He needs to play besides a true No. 1 centerman. Nothing against Stephen Weiss, but he’s more of a defensive forward.
            Horton only strives when he’s playing along the best. He’s not going to do well with someone like David Booth on his line because Booth is not a playmaker. He’s a goal-scorer.
            Horton could probably do better with premier centerman like Eric Staal or Joe Thornton. Otherwise, don’t expect much from him.

            ———————————————————————–

            http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

        • Howdumbcanube says:

          Of all the comments mentioned here. I don’t see where anyone said Horton and Lucic are mere tough guys. Anyone that would say that hasn’t seen Horton and Lucic play.

          • commandant says:

            All I’m saying is that its simplistic to say their toughness is why they are scoring…. its a factor, but not the only reason.

            Players who can combine Toughness and Skill are really valuable. Thats my only point, that they are great because of their ability to do that. And those are the types of guys we need… A tough, talented player.

            Go Habs Go!
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  58. johnnylarue says:

    Yikes! See, this is what happens when you frustrate a team that believes it can score at will. They just get worse and worse, team game falls apart. Pens D–who already cheat a lot–start to cheat a lot more and Boston has the horses to make them pay.

    The best defense usually has a better time of it in the playoffs, though. I’m just surprised how effective the Bruins team D has been against the Pens. Didn’t expect Pittsburgh’s confidence to be so easily shaken.

    • The Jackal says:

      Pens have not really had to deal with adversity or bad stretches. They kept scoring agains the Isles but the Isles just scored more. They put Vokoun in and that helped.

      Against the Bruins, they have not been able to score at all so far. That is their main strength and they are clearly worried about the situation.

      ______________________
      Hockey sine stercore tauri.


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