Game 29: Hurricanes drub feeble Canadiens

A penny for your thoughts: Canadiens coach Guy Carbonneau watches the action behind captain Saku Koivu, Guillaume Latendresse and Kyle Chipchura.
Shaun Best, Reuters

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Early in the third period, you started checking the NHL rulebook to see whether there’s a mercy rule. Sadly, there isn’t.

The Carolina Hurricanes rolled effortlessly over the Canadiens last night, the 5-1 victory their ninth in a row at the Bell Centre. Nine.

Here’s Red Fisher’s game story, and Pat Hickey’s post-game sidebar.

This remarkable winning/losing streak dates to Feb. 28, 2004; in this stretch, Carolina has outscored the home team 35-13, and now is 13-4-1 against Montreal since the 2004-05 lockout, including four victories in the opening round of the 2006 playoffs en route to winning the Stanley Cup.

The Canadiens dropped their fifth straight game at home last night, and it was a depressingly bad exhibition by a team that seems entirely without a rudder. This streak of "friendly" ice futility is the team’s worst since October-November 2000.

It marked the fourth and final meeting between the two clubs this season, after having met three times in October. The Canadiens won two of those, outscoring the Hurricanes 11-9.

Carolina led last night’s "contest" 2-0 by 12:13 of the first period on goals by Erik Cole and Eric Staal before Andrei Kostitsyn converted a short second-period Alex Kovalev pass from goalie Cam Ward’s doorstep to cut the margin in half, a power-play score midway through the frame.

But the Hurricanes beat Montreal goalie Carey Price with two more before the second was done, first by ageless Rod Brind’Amour, then Ray Whitney’s back-breaker at 19:26, four seconds after captain Saku Koivu was penalized for high-sticking, to put this one decidedly out of reach after 40 minutes.

Canadiens head coach Guy Carbonneau pulled Price after the second, his rookie netminder having a wholly ordinary game, and inserted recent AHL callup Jaroslav Halak, who’s filling in for the groin-injured Cristobal Huet.

Whitney made it 5-1 at 6:28 of the third on a shot that totally fooled Halak and found the net through his pads.

A 5-on-3 advantage of 92 seconds for the Canadiens late in the third yielded nothing but more frustration and heckling from those who decided to keep their seats until the end.

The final shots were even at 36-36, not that this statistic mattered for much.

The Canadiens are home to the Tampa Bay Lightning on Tuesday, travel to Philadelphia to take on the Flyers on Thursday then return to face the Toronto Maple Leafs next Saturday.

222 Comments

  1. Higgins21 says:

    Go Habs Go!
    My friend and I are having a discussion before the game.
    This is the question. Who was Bob Gainey’s first choice as GM? We’re thinking it’s A. Kostitsyn.

  2. mawhockey1 says:

    Where has PRIDE gone?No one steps up game after game.How long until BIG changes surface?This game was another embarrassing one!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. PGHABS says:

    we aren’t close to winning the cup, we aren’t close to the better teams in the east, we aren’t close to winning anything. we can’t handle a forcheck, and our team doesn’t have a forcheck of our own. We try to trap, but we couldn’t hold a lead to save our life. the habs havn’t won one game this year when trailing after one period of two. We have been one of the worst five on five teams for years. The only times the Habs have made the playoffs the past few times was because we had spectacular goaltending.

    I’ve always been a fan of Bob Gainey, but he isn’t aggessive enough. The only good trades he has made was dumping high salary players (theodore, samsonov). He trades Niniimaa…dumping Mike Ribeiro. You’d think Ribeiro would have had a little more worth than a defenseman who couldn’t crack our top six. His summer signing of Smolinksi was bad from the start. A slow medium sized centre, who is average on faceoffs, defense and offense. He plays on a different team every year.

    Even if we did manage to fluke our way into the playoffs, would we really have a chance against New Jersey, Ottawa, New York or Carolina? no

    This team needs to be blown up. Start over. This team has no makings of being a winner.

    …….happy holidays

  4. TradeRyder says:

    Oy! That was one turkey of a game.

    ____________________________________________________
    Habs need a new defensive coach.

  5. Rocket Richard says:

    Frustrations are mounting.

    Your right on this point ” anyone who thinks there isn’t a problem in hab land is blind!!!! ”

    Habs needed to show up for a full 60 minutes, not 6 minutes?

    Hopefully they can turn this around.

    ________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  6. Rocket Richard says:

    they say honesty is the best policy.

    lets not hide anything folks.

    ___________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  7. saku11 says:

    that’s true

  8. 4everhabfan says:

    someone will be traded or fired real soon. if heads don’t roll after tonights performance than they never will. what a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. Rocket Richard says:

    Pretty hard to find positives. Can’t even score on 5-3 powerplay.

    Way the habs are going, they may not win until 2008. (Perish the thought)

    Someone needs to get fired or traded or something to shake things up.

    ___________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  10. TradeRyder says:

    We got nice sweaters!
    ____________________________________________________
    Habs need a new defensive coach.

  11. saku11 says:

    cournoyer12 and DTD are head-to-head in a race of who can be the most negative habs fan

  12. PGHABS says:

    You ARE a Leafs fan, You’re in the wrong forum.

  13. TradeRyder says:

    We suck.

    ___________________________________________________
    Habs need a new defensive coach.

  14. hhl says:

    also boullion reminds me of m.roberge when he fights.

  15. hhl says:

    i could see lapierre n begin play on the same line in the future. mtl future energy line? also want to wish begin a speedy recovery.hope that its not serious.as well as smolinsky. go habs go.woohoo

  16. hhl says:

    i hope ryder shows up

  17. Rocket Richard says:

    5-1 canes and almost 6-1.

    This game is getting ugly.

    :-((((
    ___________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  18. hhl says:

    i hope mtl makes a statement tonight.to see ryder get mad.
    start pushing his weight around.start a fight.show ward the crack of his ass.play with a chip on his shoulder.tie his skates.crash the net.keep his stick on the ice.take one for the team!!!

  19. saku11 says:

    yeah he looked great on the shot that beat him fivehole. When we lose this game, it won’t be either goalies fault.

  20. 4everhabfan says:

    price pulled and halak starts the 3rd. about friggen time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  21. saku11 says:

    I hear you’re a credible source.

  22. gumper says:

    Box score says we have the edge in faceoffs!!! Man, how can that be true? We’re chasing them for the puck all night after the draw. I’m counting faceoff loss after faceoff loss. Anyway, like Detroit, we are being schooled, and it just plain looks like we don’t have the horses to play with the big kids. Hope Halak gets the call in the third. What other option do we have to try to get les boys going tonight? A bit soon to write off Price, though, DTD. Oh well, let’s look for some spark of hope in the third. Man it can be tough being a diehard Habs fan.

  23. saku11 says:

    i hope Ryder breaks out of his slump with a natural hat trick

  24. Rocket Richard says:

    ” I only wish that Habs lose every single game from now on ”

    If this happens, their won’t be a Canadiens franchise to root for.

    Doesn’t look good right now.

    __________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  25. MannyR says:

    Habs are playing too soft…never seem to win along the boards.
    No team toughness.
    There is no footspeed.
    Pretty depressing.

  26. 4everhabfan says:

    4-1 end of the second. should be 7-1. montreal doesn’t deserve to be in the building let alone on the ice. price is showing he’s not ready. down way to early. 2 goals tonight over his shoulder blocker side. anyone who thinks there isn’t a problem in hab land is blind!!!! sad to say but i’m getting sick of this crap. if carbo’s not the problem than he sure is hell not part of the solution. price looks weak at best. pull him for god’s sake after 3 weak goals. send a message. do something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry for my rant but enough is enough.

  27. saku11 says:

    wow, doesn’t look good. Kinda hanging Price out to dry. The way we’re playing tonight, we wouldn’t win with Luongo or Brodeur in nets. Hopefully they wake up to play the third.

  28. Higgins21 says:

    It’s easy to rant about Price, But the whole team sucks so far. But the 3rd period is still to come.

    Go Habs Go!

  29. LTHF says:

    OUTWORKED, OUTSKATED, OUTHUSTLED—plain outplayed— or just plain out of it!

  30. saku11 says:

    the thing is, every one of your posts is negative, and not just today. Tonight’s game was probably one of the worst I’ve seen the Habs play this season. However the series is tied 2-2 now. The Habs are capable of playing much better hockey. If the Habs suck then I guess 28 other teams suck as well because the only team that hasn’t really had a big slump yet is Detroit, and even they lost 4 in row. As of today, 4 points separates 3rd in the league from 19th.

  31. AdamG says:

    what a well-prepared, focused bunch we were last night. it’s become so painfully obvious that this collection of players isn’t willing to match up work-ethic wise. the only way they’ll win games is with talent and goaltending, of which we are ins short supply of at the moment. and what to do? for those waiting for Bob to do soemthing–he did. O’byrne and Lapierre. that’s all we’re getting. the team may be waiting for something to happen but they should know by now that it’s not. Bob is going to do it his way or go down trying. we just have to pray that this team decides to start working. but i don’t see it happenin.

  32. Vincent is possible says:

    I think it is possible to get a player like Lecavalier from Tampa Right now. Tampa needs to reduce their salary cap, and they would not want to pick up huge salaries. Cant wait till Tuesday night. I want to start a chant in the crowd “WE WANT VINCE! WE WANT VINCE!” Who is with me?

  33. AdamG says:

    but it’s not that they’re losing. it’s that they’re losing while playing soft, timid, lazy hockey. this isn’t a team in the basest sese of the word. did you see how the canes played last night? used each other? the habs don’t do that. it’s not the disease, it’s the symptoms that are scaring me. we can bring in all the young talent we want, but what’s it doing? there’s ZERO leadership on this team. no one to bring these kids together and teach them the ropes. add to that an inexperienced coach…it just doesn’t seem to be a good fit.

    i think the time is now to make a trade. not to salvage the season but more to infuse the team with new blood, to turn the page. who? i don’t know. but i’m not the GM getting paid millions to make these decisions. it’s time for Bob to make some changes, i believe, otherwise, this cycle will never end, no matter how much young talent we add to the club.

  34. yehaken says:

    As difficult as this year looks, you can’t blame management so much–players simply don’t want to play in Montreal.

    So that wipes out free agents and people with no-trade clauses. In other words, most of the proven talent.

    In this league, players decide where they play. So if Vinny or St. Louis wanted to be here, they would be.

    So build from within is the only option. And if you want them to talk with their wallets in the short term…well, gotta agree with Drive425 and Cournoyer: if a team can sell out every night with this product, either they’re doing something right or we’re doing something wrong!

  35. Hoegarden says:

    Today’s practice should include a 15 minute stand-still drill in front of a mirror for every Hab that did not show up last night with Gillett in attendance.
    There comes a time when excuses are no longer valid. This team is in need of help, mostly between the ears. Some of them obviously cannot hack it.
    Might as well accept reality and deal with it.

    Smokes, Ryder (I finally gave up on him last night), should be put on waivers by tomorrow.
    I do not care if we have no one to replace his 30 goals (a very misleading stat). He whined and complained for the last two years about his friggin contract, went to arbitration and is now firing nothing but blanks, missing the target by a mile. Thank you Mike for time to go somewhere sunnier.
    Smokes brings in as much as McKay and every single over-the-hill UFA we signed since. Why do we sign these players is beyond me. Experience and leadership they say…Please give us a break here.
    We all like Kosto but he is no solution. Habs need firepower, not plumbers. Where is that speed every coach in the organization bragged about in training camp ? We chased a bunch of 35 year olds all night on Saturday and last night was no different. They looked like they were skating with snow shoes on.
    Timmins better focus on power forwards ONLY for the next 3 years.

    Losing is one thing, HOW you lose is another………

  36. Vincent is possible says:

    HabsFreak, I agree “Its not our time” but us fans can’t just sit and watch a much better team being misguided by bad coaching.
    The talent is here, now, minus one superstar. We have the supporting castw. It is poor coaching, I have seen it time and time again since Carbo started. We now losing games with three goal leads with 7 minutes to play… we are collasping whenever we have a two goal lead..period.We almost lost that Boston game! This is bad coaching…period.

    I’m sorry to bring up the past, but the whole reason we didn’t make the playoffs last year is because Carbo’s didn’t give Halak the final game he earned last year against Toronto. Furthermore, Huet played lousy that game and should have been pulled! Carbo must be worried he is going to have a “ROY moment” when pulling a goalie.

    And for those countering last nights pull of Price, the only reason he felt comfortable pulling Price last night is BECAUSE PRICE IS A ROOKIE! If Carbo had his way Price would have been in the AHL all this year anyway. He wouldn’t have dared pulling Huet if he was the one playing last night!

  37. yehaken says:

    I agree with most of what you say, but not the draft: “Why draft Carey Price when Jose Theodore just won the Hart and the Vezina?”

  38. Vincent is possible says:

    Dave Stubbs/ Pat Hickey/ Kevin Mio:

    Do you think a big name coming to Montreal is a real possibility in the near future?(Vincent does not have a “No trade” claus in his contract)
    Will Carbonneau get the boot?

  39. saku11 says:

    I hope they call up Grabs and S. Kost. Grabs was rewarded for his effort last saturday against Nashville by being sent down. Both those guys will bring speed and creativity. Bump Kovalev onto a line with Koivu and Higgins and let Pleks play with the Kostitsyns. Chips could play with Lats and Grabs. Both Chips and Grabs are slick passers and Lats has a solid shot. Those are my armchair GM thoughts. It worked for me in NHL 08, which proves it’s a flawless plan. Carbo should call up Denis Savard and ask him what system he has the Blackhawks playing. Those kids are fun to watch.

  40. Hoegarden says:

    Good, let’s draft more goalies….that’s really going to help. We also need more D, Forwards need not apply.

  41. saku11 says:

    Who said that? Theodore won the Vezina in 2002. Price was drafted in 2005. He will win the Vezina in 2009-2010.

  42. saku11 says:

    from your profile pic, it looks like the Habs tried to clone Lecavalier but ended up with a deformed monstrosity.

  43. Maffu says:

    this doesn’t feel cool.
    feels like a bunch of things aren’t working. to name a few markov must be injured/ or not concentrated.

    this should pass. if it doesn’t… as my friend says, when we go below .500 something should be done to try and fix it.

  44. JA says:

    My christmas wishes and suggestions for Gainey:

    1. Hire a coach that is humble, has self control, communicates well and knows how to get respect from the players.

    2. Hire a coach to work with the defense, someone who has played defense in the NHL and has coaching experience.

    3. Hire a coach to work with the offense, someone capable of turning young players into capable scorers.

    4. Draft the best available scorers the following two years to complement all the defenceman and defensive players we have already drafted.

    5. Keep Melanson as the coach for the goalies, he is doing a great job.

    I respect Gainey and the coaches as they were all great players but give me a break, how many defensive coaches without much NHL experience do we need on one team.

    The team started out playing creative and exciting hockey that was a joy to watch, the players are still the same that started the year, so the question is what happened, my assumption is that the coaching staff had time with all the practices to put all the necessary mental barriers in the minds of the players not to make mistakes, and to have them think too much instead of having them play a system that is more instinctive and creative.

  45. habsnyc says:

    have smolinski and streit been moved to the first line with Koivu, or has Koivu been moved to the third line with smolinski and streit?

  46. Smart Dog says:

    What this team needs more than anything is confidence. Confidence in the coach, in the system, in each other. I say Carbo and Gainey should sit down with a handful of veterans and rising stars (Koivu, Kovalev, Hamrlik, Markov, Higgins, Plekanic) over a nice juicy t-bone steak and hash it out.

  47. The Teacher says:

    A repost from yesterday’s articles.

    For a little bit of Levity, and to get us all in the mood for the holidays,

    with props to Cournoyer12

    Here is my version of The Twelve Days of Christmas, adopted for the Habs and their one true love

    12 Scrummers Scrumming
    11 Snipers Sniping
    10 Danglers-a deke-ing
    9 Defensive snarings
    8 Goalies A-jilting
    7 Rockets A-grinning
    6 Beatings A-Laying
    5 Lady Byyyyyyyyyyyngs
    4 Forwards scoring (copyright Cournoyer12)
    3 Wingers Winging (copyright Cournoyer12)
    2 Power Forwards (copyright Cournoyer12)
    1 True Stanley Cup

    Naturally, I had to include one of the ghosts of Habs history to complete it, wouldn’t we all agree :)

  48. Smart Dog says:

    Arf. How can you have 7 rockets? Or 11 snipers?

  49. A. Berke says:

    with all due respect, if you were the GM of Tampa Bay, would you give away Lecavalier for Ryder and Huet? or an additional draft choice?

    I don’t think so.

    Besides TB wants to unload salary, assuming that the above trade happened, then they’ll have Ryder’s and Huet’s salaries almost equaling Vinny’s salary. Which essentially means giving away a player like Vinny in return for a mediocre slow skater who can no longer score and a reasonably decent goalie who’s prone to injuries.

    Even the worst horse trader in the world wouldn’t go for such a trade.

    Time to stop dreaming for Lecavalier and other top drawer players and see if we can get instead a reasonably decent scorer for the two.

    More importantly, let’s concentrate on getting the veteran players to play as they should i.e. giving their 110% for full 60 minutes.

    Supporting the team as a whole (instead of criticising incessantly) would help also.

    Ali B.

  50. habsgod says:

    because they realized theodore was what i’ve said to all the guys that i get together with out west here to watch the games with!that if this is the goalie of the future then we are in deep trouble and will go nowhere with him in net!!i’ve tabbed him when he played for us the piece!i would say the piece is in net!!(piece of shit)and i don’t know why i used to argue with other life long habs fans like myself about this guy!!they used to tell me all the time how great he was and i’d tell them that he was an average goalie!!and we’d never win anything with him in net!!i was right about him from day 1!!!i wouldn’t and won’t ever put him in the habs all top 10 goalies!!not even close!!

  51. habsgod says:

    ali b i respect what you are saying!!but use your brain and think for one second!!!jay feaster(the g.m. of the lightning)has been told to trim payroll and alot of it!!tampa bay has little to no cap room!!they have to make a move!!and they have some ufa’s on there team that they want to try and resign!!but with them paying the big 4 all the money the rest of there team suffers!!and two of the big 4 have no trade clauses(richards and st.louis)and dan boyle is a u.f.a at season’s end!!and tampa bay can’t resign him because there’s no money plus they can’t sign anybody else(goalie)because there is no money!!!because they’ve put it into 4players so feaster has a mandate (ordered by management) to clear cap room!!!and with lacavalier being the only one out of the big3 without a no trade-clause and the one assest that you have make your team better by trading well he has to!!and this is why i think the habs have the best package and offer to make such a deal!!!for arguement sake let’s say feaster comes to gainey !!gainey can deal from obvious stre
    nghts on our team(goaltending)huet is better and an upgrade over anything that t.b has right now!!but they ask for a forward we all know ryder doesn’t want to be here !and that’s obvious so you include him and t.b wants a defencemen you offer streit!this doesn’t get it done!!butwith us having a surplus of young studs you offer them mcdonagh as well!!if they say o.k but we are concerned over ryder being a u.f.a as well then you offer 2 first r.d picks(one being conditional if ryder dosesn’t resign) then you give themexclusive rights to negoiate a deal with huet
    !!!this deal would save tampabay millions in cap spaceand they get a young macdonagh,streit and they resign boyle all of a sudden you have a deep defence and ryder can give them a winger to play with prospal,st.louis and richards!!and they have huet!!and with one of the 2 1st r.d picks that we give up they draft themselves a goalie for there future and then huet is there to tutor that kid as well!then they also have a pretty decent forward group with ryder,st.louis,richards ,prospalthen they leave them selves enough room to adress there other 2 forward spots and also leave them with some romm to do things!!and we the habs have not onlt the cap space cleared out and what we have left already to do this!!this is way i think it is more than a possibility that this can/could happen !!!

  52. Nate says:

    I was at the game last night with my wife and some friends for my 30th birthday. Total cost of tickets and parking was for 2 people was over $500. What a disgrace to watch a team perform in front of its home crowd so poorly it made me wish I hadn’t been there. In all the times I’ve been to the Bell Centre and Forum I’ve never seen such a gutless performance by the Habs and I hope I never see it again. In my opinion there were only 2 players that showed up for the Habs last night and they were Lapierre and Komisarek. The rest didn’t wake up from their afternoon pre-game pampered nap. What a disgrace and a total waste of my hard earned money. Booooooooo!!!

  53. Renegade says:

    Ah the NHL 08 test, we could all become coaches through that game =p

  54. Smart Dog says:

    I think they’re just tired of crapping on the team. Not much to say but ‘same old, same old’.

    Might as well have some patience… it’s gonna be a long road to where-ever this team is goin’.

  55. linp says:

    Realistically, we’ll have to make the best of what we have for a while, including coaches and players.
    Desperate time needs desperate measure. We are not scoring 5 on 5. The only option left is to put our best forewards, Koivu/Kovalev/Higgins in one line and have the other three lines dedicated to forechecking.
    Hockey is an entertainment business. Watching the team being outclassed badly is certainly not entertaining. Are you willing to pay and watch a bunch of AHLer playing. We need to play at least respectable and entertaining.

  56. NightRyder says:

    Keep plugging away with the kids and accept the mistakes. We will benefit from it later.
    My only real problem with things so far (other than the fact they didn’t flog Ryder before he lost value) is Guy Carbonneau. For someone with such a keen understanding of the game, especially defensively, it’s remarkable to me that we give up so many chances. Since we don’t produce enough offensively, that’s especially troubling. I’m willing to be patient, but it looks like Carbo might not be the guy. I also think it’s time to trade Koivu. He’s heart an soul and I’ll always be a fan, but he’s high-milage and not a true No. 1. Move forward with a new identity. He’d be a perfect No. 2 on a contender.

  57. habsgod says:

    make a deal for christ sakes!!come on gainey quit twiddling your thumbs and sitting back and doing nothing!!this team needs a shake up really bad!!and the only way to do that is to ship a big name out!!don’t do just minor tinkering!!do something major!!if you can’t or won’t then it’s time gillet brings somebody that can and will and that is not scared to take chances!!!lacavalier comes to mind!!go get him bob give up whatever it takes!!!get ryder off this team this guy is becoming pathetic!!trade a goaltender too!!huet or halak and and defenceman because obyrne has taken somebody’s job and that’s a good thing!!he’s got good size and excellent mobility for a 6’5 giant!!i bet he could blast it from the point!!put him on the pp and tell brisebois to take a hike!!!!

  58. Drive_4_25 says:

    After last night’s $400 outing to the Bell Center.. I too am out of patience and fed up with the LACK OF DOING ANYTHING on the part of management!! I am not one of those band-wagoneers.. And I have NEVER thought that carbo was a good fit for the job…(Simply because he has Z E R O experience!!!!!) Why does our management ALWAYS run out and hire a coach to LEARN COACHING behind the bench while WE THE FANS that spend OUR MONEY have to deal with the outcome of SUCH STUPID DECISIONS!!!!!!!!!!!YOU SHOW ME ANOTHER MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS WHERE THE FATE OF SAID BUSINESS IS PUT IN THE LAPS OF PEOPLE WITH NO EXPERIENCE!!! ENOUGH ALREADY I love Bob Gainey, but I also love my mom but I wouldn’t give HER the job of GM!!!!! M.GILLETT get your head out of your ass and demand results!!! Because we the PAYING fans are just about at the end of our ROPE!

    Go ha… WHATEVER!

    God is a HABS fan whose still pissed at the ROY trade!!!

  59. NightRyder says:

    bob hartley?

  60. smiler2729 says:

    Yeah, they suck so what! I like the youth movement but I don’t think Carbo’s the coach for it because they’ve tuned him out and that’s obvious, even going back to last season, I don’t think they respect him. I also think the team’s core needs to change (we need some North American grit cuz we are too Euro)… But Bob Gainey knows all this.

  61. madhabsfan says:

    After tonight’s performance, Gainey had better see that it needs to hit the fan, right now. Fire the coach? Not necessarily. Over the years, we have been doing this with the same consistency as we have failed to land big name goal-scorers. Changes need to be made on the ice! This means unloading unproductive players, bringing up the right people from Hamilton (Sergei Kostitsyn’s time may have come), and making trades to both improve offense and shake things up. Few people are inexpendable, very few under these circumstaces.

    Get on the horn Bob, now!

    PS – Did any of you catch Demers talking after the game. Pretty fired up!

  62. saku11 says:

    I’d like to see what S. Kostitsyn can do. He’s got 22 points in 21 games for the Bulldogs this year.

  63. Spider-Man NL says:

    I really expected more from a guy who was taken 5th overall.

  64. TradeRyder says:

    What do you want? Does he have to beat the other teams by himself every night?

    ____________________________________________________
    Habs need a new defensive coach.

  65. 24cups says:

    Hey pinhead, complain to the hosts not me.

  66. Smart Dog says:

    Good for you! A winning team lifts all our spirits! Nothing wrong with being passioniate… it must be difficult lately. But I am sure that Bob G has not betrayed Saku, though he may have fallen short on what he hoped to provide… which is why I believe Saku will leave us – by his own choice, and with Bob doing what he can for Saku AND the team. He has strong responsibilities to both.

  67. Smart Dog says:

    I believe you are right… we will never see VL here.

    But that’s only because I have a hang-dog attitude (after years of abuse!) that we will NEVER have a top-10 forward on this team. But that has to be wrong… and it is actually possible VL would come here.

    And if TB was looking for a strong return with a low salary, the Habs have the depth and could trade good assets (Huet, Koivu, Kovalev) to other teams for picks and prospects and turn around and swap those picks and prospects to TB, plus throw in a young forward (Lats? Pleks)…though I would HATE to see Pleks go. But TB gets what it wants – we reduce our salary to make room but keep our young core solid by mostly trading what we gained from our own salary dump. Everyone wins. Possible.

    Smart dog!

  68. MTL LOVE says:

    Instead of having a crap coach like Carbo…we need an experienced coach and fast. The way he bad talks his players, his goalies and all that other b.s is uncalled for. Yah, k fine he has what he has to combine lines with…but c’mon these guys play with no heart, no passion and instead of getting down when they are losing…play harder, get off ur sorry asses and stop feeling sorry for yourself..stop blaming others! Look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself did I give my 110%.
    Guys like Vinny Lecavalier and Crosby and those other “A PLAYERS” will never be seen in a CH jersey. Time to stick to reality..Mtl will never bring in an All star!

  69. Smart Dog says:

    You’re off my Christmas list.

  70. Wops says:

    If we loose, instead of booing, it would be amazing to scream and cheer everytime Vinny Lecavalier touches the puck…

    maybe he’ll feel how we like him!

    I can almost here the screams:

    Vinny! Vinny ! Vinny!
    _______________________________________
    CH is for Chris Higgins

  71. Smart Dog says:

    Where is our optimism?! We have some good players though I agree that they lose value if we can’t win more games. We should have traded Ryder early in the season. Now we wouldn’t even get a box of bones for him.

  72. Norm0770 says:

    We really just need to import some European fans who whistle for poor plays and the team will regain its confidence.

  73. PGHABS says:

    We are not going to get Vincent Lecavalier.

  74. Smart Dog says:

    We all know TB needs to dump a player. But why would it be Vinny? I know he has no no-trade deal.. but he may be the leagues best player. Is there no other way around this for them? There must be. I just can’t see them trading him.

  75. Smart Dog says:

    I think you’d find it hard to another person in hockey with as much honesty and integrity as Bob Gainey. Or one who thinks about his words more carefully. If Gainey made such a PROMISE to Saku, you want to believe he did everything possible to try to keep it. And that he will do everything he can now to make Saku happy. Which I think means trading him to a contender. Soon.

  76. A. Berke says:

    If there were a promise made between Gainey and Koivu, that was between them and we don’t know of it.

    However what we all know is that Gainey tried very hard and made excellent offers, especially to Briere and Smith (and Shelly too) to no avail, those guys chose to go elsewhere. Heaven knows who else he tried to get here.

    So criticising Gainey for breaking a promise and betrayal is totally out of line, wrong and futile and it doesn’t help anything.

    I have noticed that you have been criticising Gainey repeatedly and to no end. Instead of one liner critiques, if you have an acceptable, workable alternate solution that makes sense, please don’t be shy and share it with the rest of us. Otherwise, there is no sense repeating the same critique in an insulting manner several times a day (it’s getting old you know); you may stop that and change the subject of your postings please.

    Ali B.

  77. Chorske says:

    Whoa, a positive post about our draft picks?

    Who are you, and what have you done with the REAL cournoyer12 ?!

    ;)

  78. Chorske says:

    I for one don’t resent you. It just grates when you repeptitively grind your axe about GetzlafKopitarPerry. Your recent posts have been great, and I’m glad cooler heads than mine run the show here.

  79. Xtrahabsfan says:

    Make Andy Murray the coach.Bring him back Bob,heck even have him work with Carbo,but put Murray in control!And lets start trading ,it is time to stir the pot to avoid being burnt at the bottom.Keep all the young dudes and start over!!!

  80. mrstewart61 says:

    Andy Murray is coaching in St. Louis…and he never was in Montreal. Perhaps you are thinking of Dave King??

  81. mrstewart61 says:

    How do you know what Koivu wants??

  82. Smart Dog says:

    Stop the insanity boys. Carbo needs to learn, but he is a winner. He needs some more passionate players on the team who will connect with his message. Murray is no better. If they change it will be jsut for change. And you know what they say: “No matter where you go – there you are.” It will still be the same team. We need a different mix of players. It will come – soon. Ruff!

  83. 24 Cups says:

    Do you think we should have drafted Getzlaf?:-)

  84. 24 Cups says:

    Hey Guys – I’ve been away all weekend. Who let the dog out?!!!

  85. Blarneylad says:

    the schedule gets easier at least guys

  86. Smart Dog says:

    Woof!

    Woof, woof – WOOF-WOOF!

  87. Smart Dog says:

    I posted this below but it’s too good to bury!

    1. TRADE KOIVU and HUET to teams with cap space who are making a run, in return for picks and prospects. Dump RYDER for what we can get. This clears about $10 million and changes our chemistry. Koivu wants to go to a contender.

    2. THEN TRADE young players, picks and prospects to TB for Vinny and that 3 million piece of baggage (forget the name).

    Result – we essentially replace Koivu with Vinny, and lose very little.

    Good dog! I am a genius!!

  88. 24cups says:

    You guys sure that you are not closet leaf fans, you sure are whinning like them. This team will turn it around.

  89. joe-hab-nuno says:

    We need at least 2 ppg players to be a serious contender. While we wait for these 2 ppg players we’ll always struggle to make the final spots for the playoffs. As for Lecavalier coming here, sorry to say but will never happen.

  90. Smart Dog says:

    If Koivu has any trade value???? LOL. He’s got value buddy… he’s got value. Any team would love to have that guy.

  91. joe-hab-nuno says:

    Just give us 3 consistant hard worked games. Even we we lose at least give us some sort of hope that there is some heart in this team.

  92. AdamG says:

    no, thinking that this team, with their lack of effort, heart and preparedness is still really good and will magically turn it around is the ultimate in Leaf-fan thinking.

    we’re Habs fans, we’re objective. we’re not blind cheerleaders. we know our team is busted.

  93. AdamG says:

    there are players on this team with individual heart–begin, lapierre, komisarek, higgins–but there’s no team heart. none at all. it’s why you rarely see they guys back each other up. it’s every man for himself on this team.

    and there is a serious issue with koivu. i’m starting to think there’s a reason no one avenges all of the massive hits he takes. right now, teams now they can do whatever they want to our captain…

  94. Smart Dog says:

    If you are right about Koivu – and I think you might be – then Gainey will move him soon. Gainey does not wait around on these things and Koivu is a very desirable player. And I think it could be best for both teams… though I would like to keep him, we put to much weight on him here. He deserves to go to a contender, and team needs to learn how to run without him. My guess is too that Kovalev wants a leadership spot. And that as these things go…. there is a subtle rivalry. These things tear teams apart. We’ll miss you Koivu – you gave your all! Kovalev. He gave his all a couple of times.

  95. 24 Cups says:

    Hey, what gives with your account name? I’m 24Cups and that’s with a capital C my friend. Why don’t you try and come up with an original nickname!

  96. AdamG says:

    koivu looks disinterested, and can you blame him? it’s been like this ever since he got here. he probably speaks to rivet and hears how wonderful things are in SJ. koivu sees the writing on the wall…he knows he’s not part of Bob’s plan for the future, nor dows he want to be. if koivu has any trade value at all, he must be dealt. i guarantee a change of scenery and playing with some talent, he’ll finish the season +15 with 80 points. it’ll be good for him. it can’t make the habs any worse. if anything, it’ll give them a jolt in the ass. though i question if anything can inject life into this groupp of players…

  97. A. Berke says:

    Thank you Smart Dog,

    That’s exactly what I was trying to impart as well.

    Ali B.

  98. Gilles Poisson says:

    All in all, a pretty good effort from Les Boys tonight against a superieur team. We match them in the shots, and we beat them in the hits, Mike Boonses favourite statistic. Too bad Komisarek have to get beat up by a goon but we are way too good to have one of those wasting the precious roster spot. We also have the best goalers in the league. And sorry to blow my horn but I was spot on with my predictions earlier:
    http://www.habsinsideout.com/main/1499#comment-44880
    Tonight was the fault of Coach Guy and also the referees. I am guaranteeing the win Monday when we play whoever the hell we play.Thank you.

  99. LizardKing1967 says:

    Discusting!

    Is it me, or does everyone on our team look slow?
    Also, why r we the only team never tohave anyone in front of the net in the offensive zone. All 3 forwards r behind the net and/or on the side boards. We have no offensive talent at all. I don’t and can’t blame Kovy for not wanting to give any effort every night. HE DOES NOT HAVE ANYONE TO PLAY WITH!!!
    Jim-out

  100. gumper says:

    Scouting report on the Habs. Team only shoots from bottom or top of faceoff circle. Usually the right. Couldn’t find the slot with a compass.

  101. gumper says:

    All right, here we go again. This team has given up on the coach. Why? Because whenever the team faces adversity, Carbo’s only response is to call out individuals for blame. There is never a “we” that issues from his mouth. And he certainly never accepts any personal blame. No one is happy working in such a situation. The players do not believe that Carbo can lead them out of this mess, which closely resembles the mess they got in last year. Gainey will not, of course, fire Carbo. Add to that the fact that most of what we have to trade will not bring much in return, and what you have is one more long winter wondering if the Habs can ever regain respectability.

  102. Gilles Poisson says:

    It was the refs fault OK? What game were you watching? Thank you.

  103. Gilles Poisson says:

    A better excuse? Ryder was rusty. Hows that? Thank you.

  104. saku11 says:

    seriously, the kid is the youngest goalie in the league and has a 7-5-1 record. It’s good to see some people give up on him 13 games into his career. Cole’s goal was a perfect shot off the post and in, Staal’s was a huge deflection and Brindamour was left unchecked in the slot. The only goal I can see him wanting back is Whitney’s shot from the point. It’s hardly fair to blame the goalie when the team in front of him takes the night off. We might have had 36 shots, but until the third period we didn’t really have many good scoring chances.

  105. Chuck says:

    For what it’s worth, Brind’Amour’s shot deflected off of Hamrlik’s stick, while Whitney’s deflected off of Markov’s stick and dipped.
    .
    .
    .

    ______________________________________________
    “Vote Saku for All-Star… or little Timmy gets it!!!”

  106. Naila Jinnah says:

    Awww… sometimes you don’t want to be right. Like about Begin’s shoulder.

  107. Chuck says:

    I can’t say that I’m surprised, considering the way that we was holding his arm when he left the ice. In fact, I think that you noted that first, Naila.

    Let’s wish Begin a speedy recovery.

    .
    .
    .

    ______________________________________________
    “Vote Saku for All-Star… or little Timmy gets it!!!”

  108. HABSFAN - NJ says:

    is it safe to wake up yet or is the massacre still going???

  109. Rocket Richard says:

    It may continue habsfan.

    Vinny and the Lighting are Habs next opponents

    Go back to sleep, when habs start winning we will wake you up
    ___________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  110. Sulemaan says:

    Thanks for the kind words Steve. I think your point about chemistry is a key one. Hopefully we will have more Higgins, Komisarek, Chipchura type of players and less Ribiero, Dagenais and Theodore ones in the dressing room.

  111. gumper says:

    Good posts by Suleman and A. Berke a bit lower. The youth movement is the way to go, if for no other reason than we have not choice. The players we have that are trade bait, let’s face it, are not all that tempting, and we won’t get much value for the likes of Ryder right now because he’s slumping badly. There’s no point in making a move just to make a move. We are all very frustrated right now, including, I’m sure, Bob Gainey. But Gainey is not going to pull the trigger on a deal that is unlikely to help the team. Those of you who think we have enough to trade for a Lecavelier or a Marleau are dreaming in technicolour. As soon as we failed to make any major splash in the free agency signings this summer, we all knew that Gainey had no choice but to go with the youth. Whether or not we have the players (as yet undeveloped) to take use where we want to be, remains to be seen, but face it, it’s our only real hope. If we can get our game back enough this year to make some noise in the playoffs, suddenly we become more appealing to free agents this summer. If not, we remain mired in this mediocrity, hoping that somehow, somewhere a goal scorer will emerge from within the ranks.

    Right now, what we need more than anything is to find some chemistry. Whatever combination of youth and veterans will give that is what we should go with. I tend to agree with the posters mentioned that we are most likely to find it amongst the young players who haven’t yet learned to believe in the team’s mediocrity. But most of all, Carbonneau needs to learn how to recognize and nurture that chemistry. Maybe a pre-Christmas slump will help him turn the corner and become that big league coach we all hope he can be. (One part humility, one part determination, one part faith and one part communication) In any case, Bob committed to the youth movement early, and it’s too late to turn back now. This young team is being hardened in the fires of adversity. Let’s hope that our leaders have what it takes to bring them through these fires, tougher and better than they were when they entered them. I’m not a fan of Carbonneau based on last year’s debacle and this year’s descent into chaos, but maybe Suleman has a point. Maybe the value of having stability at the management level is great enough that we should hold onto the coach and let him fight through it like the players. All I know, is I’d hate to be in Gainey’s shoes right now. So hard to know what the right move is, and so many of us out here waiting form him to make a move.

  112. ZepFan2 says:

    “Accusing someone of thinking too early to be an all star is uncalled for.”

    I disagree. I think it should piss off Markov and motivate him enough to prove his coach wrong.

    These players get s**t loads of money to play a game they love. They really shouldn’t need too much motivation. Markov isn’t greedy like some others are, none the less, he’s still being paid good money.

    Besides, maybe Markov has been looking ahead. It’s not like it’s out of the realm of possibility.

  113. linp says:

    It may motivate him to leave Montreal and motivate other star players not to come.

  114. ZepFan2 says:

    “It may motivate him to leave Montreal and motivate other star players not to come.”

    Maybe he can play for Nolan. ;)

    Anyway, that’s the negative way of looking at it. I like to believe it will only serve to motivate him.

    Also, I notice Markov plays better with Komi. Let’s hope Carbo keeps them together.

  115. Rocket Richard says:

    somehow, even if the habs lose 80 games, fans will still show up at the bell center only they will be rooting for the other team.

    But a very good point.

    The front office must be looking at a different habs team on the ice.

    ___________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  116. theflower says:

    Ok, here is my two cents, remember when you were a kid and you played hard and lost, at least your parents would say, well Johnny did you give it your best and you would say yes and then they would say well then you have nothing to worry about.

    Today and in many of our recent games we see a team that has not played hard, is beat to every puck, is taken off every one on one challenge, is beaten badly in transition and simply is not skating well enough or working hard enough to beat a team of PEEWEES!!! I have no problem with us losing hockey games, every team does it. I have a HUGE problem with 1/2 measures 1/2 effort and 1/2 skating, we do a lot of that and team who work hard make us look really really really bad. Especially of late Detroit, Buffalo and Carolina who simply schooled us tonight!!! Absolutely HORRIFIC! You know in soccer they have a stat about possession and time in the other teams zone. Tonight like the nights against the Red Wings and Sabres, I guarantee you puck possession and time in the opponents zone would dramatically favor Carolina, it was an absolute disgusting game to watch. Any of you who want to hide behind referees calls and the like, think again, this team played maybe 10 of a possible 60 minutes at a level close to Carolina, winning was never a possibility, losing was all we were going to get tonight, all I could think as I watched was by how much. Honestly I wish it was 10-1 because it seems that is what it will take to get this teams’ head out of the clouds! I am sick and I am having deja vu of last year all over again and honestly unless a change of attitude happens in this team soon, it is going to be a very long year!

  117. MannyR says:

    Couldn’t agree with you more.

  118. Norm0770 says:

    Watch Canada in teh next Olympics and you might see exactly that!

  119. Smart Dog says:

    Someone really IS dreaming in technicolour.

  120. The Teacher says:

    Haha 22nd Century technicolour!

  121. The Teacher says:

    God, it is horrible isn’t it.

  122. ccs says:

    Just came back from a weekend in toronto. What a horrible city. I missed the game but sounds like it was quite bad. Has anyone claimed Recchi yet??? I would rather have a 39 year old player come here and give his all to play for the CH than some of these BUMS on the team now.

  123. The Teacher says:

    I like that also, they are crucial ingredients :)

  124. Vincent is possible says:

    I say again, on Tuesday, I want to start a chant in the crowd “WE WANT VINCE! WE WANT VINCE!” Who is with me?

  125. A. Berke says:

    That’s gonna be a lot of chip’s to make $7.1 per year!

    Ali B.

  126. Samantha says:

    Hey everyone!
    Unfortunately, I was at the game tonight….PATHETIC is all I can say…I left with 10 minutes to go in the third and there were A LOT of people who had already left.
    What is wrong with this team?? 5 minutes in I knew it was going to be a long night. I even told my boyfriend that we’ll leave after the 6th goal. We left after their 6th goal was refused.
    You know, I bought 2 tickets in the LAST ROW of the BLUE section and it cost me 75$. COMPLETE WASTE. I can’t even imagine how dissapointing it was for the people in the lodges!
    You have a team that sells out every single game, their fans are insane, yet they have a hard time getting motivated to play in front of us??
    I never agreed with blaming the coach for their losses, and he’s not on the ice, but when you play BRISEBOIS practically all night, including on the PP, I’m gonna agree with a lot of people : Carbo needs to go…NOW! BRISEBOIS…i mean, come on, seriously! And from where I was, it was sometimes hard to see which player it was but everytime I saw a red shirt defensement f*ck up, I knew it was him.
    The highlight of my night was when I was leaving, I hugged Youpi. and it smelled like pizza in my section….that was nice too.

  127. Chuck says:

    At least he wouldn’t be able to lip-off at the refs!
    .
    .
    .

    ______________________________________________
    “Vote Saku for All-Star… or little Timmy gets it!!!”

  128. Rocket Richard says:

    For $75 you could of got better entertainment.

    What’s wrong with this team.

    Something happened during last weeks game with the Predators.

    Don’t ask me to reveil it. I don’t read minds.
    ___________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  129. Richard B says:

    Richard B
    Ha!
    It is very sad when the highlight of the night is hugging Youpi and the smell of some pizza that an’t yours!!!
    Thats how I felt at home.
    It is getting difficult to watch a team that can’t score a goal!!
    Benching Ryder cause he can’t score??
    Looks like all the players want to get a few games in the corporate box. Perhaps those corporate boxes are too nice…
    Maybe the players who are scratched should have to watch the game from the cheap seats and then clean up the stands when all the fans clear out!!!
    Perhaps that is better motivation?

  130. linp says:

    At least Carbo said the right thing after the game. If you want to go forward with a lot of young guys, you’ll have to get prepared that they will make some errors along the way. The main issue for me is that the young players should continue to improve and cut down on the errors. It is up to the coaches to help the players to succeed.
    - Price needs to improve his reaction time. It is good to be cool and calm. When the puck is fired at you, you need to react faster.
    - Komisarek gave up a lot of PK goals due to moving out of position and leaving a man free in front of the net. He is still making the same mistake tonight.
    - The team appears to be tired already after only 30 games. Bob needs to get some bigger players. We need help.
    - No matter what the score is, the team needs to play the same style of play consistently for 60 minutes, ie., skate and pass accurately., puck control hockey. Currently, once we are down by one goal, there is no team play anymore. Every player just get rid of the puck or try to do it alone. No wonder we can’t come back when we are trailing in a game.

  131. HAB-PROFESSOR says:

    Carolina is a team with speed and skill and once they put a few in the net then they have a #1 goalie that will shut you down (we know him real good) and they go into their dirty play mode with all the hooking, tripping, taking your eye out stick work and they do it with no fear of RETRIBUTION…I can count on one hand the number of crushing hits we delivered.

    The problem is we are being “Opportunistic” when trying to make a big hit, as it has to be perfect before we try to line someone up…doesn’t work that way, the hits have to come from NOWHERE then they make a difference,,, think Scott Stevens and ULANOV, remember him,,,heck even Scott MASON was an animal.

    Against an elite squad (carolina) you need some good GRIT to go along with your few goals and solid goaltending. just look at the strategy Caroli threw at us.

    heres a few notes that come to mind post game….

    The GOOD:

    RYDER – it was good to see him back where he belongs, although he needs to release within ONE SECOND…thats how he scored 30 goals, is he not being schooled?

    OBRYNE – he had his greatest challenge of his professional career tonight going against Cole, and feeling some pain…anyone else (except Komi) would have had a career ending injury on that play.

    KOSTY – glad he is still on that line, and the line is together, kid is producing and shows some aggresiveness.

    PRICE – yeah he could have had a few of those, but don’t forget the 4 or 5 breakaways that he saved …he faced far to many HIGH QUALITY CHANCES and its not just the D to blame, but the forwards for not getting back…ie BRINDAMEER GOAL.

    The BAD:

    CARB – for 2 reasons:
    pulling PRICE and destroying his confidence
    waisting a forward spot on Streit when he should be on D and Briss in the press box…which then opens a spot for Milroy or Kostisyn jr.

    against a team like Carolina you need a “Begin” in the lineup. (I know he’s injured, kids got guts)

    and DAMMIT…THEY STILL HAVEN’t DESTROYED THAT IDIOT WHO TOOK Koivu’S EYE OUT…HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN MANGLED…THATS THE PROBLEM HERE…WHEN YOU PUT YOUR FIST TO USE and BREAK THEIR TEETH, then guess what? their GAME PLAN IS FINISHED…but if they have no fear…then we are at their mercy.

    and you’ve seen the result.

  132. habs 1515 says:

    You guys are almost all crazy, carbo is never going to leave the habs unless he quits himself.And as for gainey he is the best thing thats ever happend to the habs and to you band waggon st-p-d dumb f-c-s if we do some of the things you all people are sugesting we should call rejean houle and tremblay come back and show gainey how to do it. not not not not not not not ! Relax and chill a bit we have only seen good things from the organisation. And getting rid of koivu who ever sugests that should get a life the habs have been making mistakes like this forever and players go to other teams and become 30 goal scorers chilchill!!!!!!We need 1 or two more players and thats it. Gainey tried and the losers did not come imagine if we had shanahan and briere.SO NOW EVERYBODY TAKE PILL.We will win the cup soon very soon.

  133. Gilles Poisson says:

    Hehe I had a good laugh at picturing Youppi as coach. Thank you.

  134. habs 1515 says:

    I have season tickets and never leave you should not go to games

  135. Rocket Richard says:

    If you think this habs team will win the cup…keep dreaming.

    They lack a whole bunch of things.

    Let’s try to get them in the playoffs, then we talk about the cup.

    MAJOR. AND I MEAN MAJORS CHANGES NEED TO HAPPEN.

    Keep in mind to, carbo could be here for a while. I can’t see gainey firing him – yet.

    __________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  136. Rocket Richard says:

    POLL Question:

    Habs need some leadership on this team, so my question is:

    Should the Habs trade Saku Koivu despite he may be a fan favorite?

    Post your comment under here all you habs fans

    ___________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  137. habsguy says:

    ya, keep freaming !!!!!….LOL

  138. habsguy says:

    saku11 …I don’t think either of them are true Hab fans..

  139. habs 1515 says:

    Yeah rocket you think richard is going to help us whos dreaming and i said we will win the cup very soon and i mean it.You will see.

  140. Wayne says:

    Your right Sam — I saw the same thing at home and i turned the channel after the last goal, hell… i knew they’d score on that rush. Carey Price better get a pulse and start reading these plays better and stay on his F’n feet longer. He’s weak over both shoulders and has sh*t reflexes.

    TRADE RYDER!!

    … and give Brisebois away.

  141. habs 1515 says:

    And habs guy i think i am .

  142. habsguy says:

    DTD ….Positives..humm let me see, Price, Komi, Plekenic, Higgins, Chipchura, Grabovski, Latendersse, S Kostitsyn, A Kostitsyn, Lapierre……Should I also name the prospects on the Bulldogs team….I see nothing but a bright future for the Habs…..

  143. habs 1515 says:

    tell me what there missing the rocket richars come down to earth and forget about the past

  144. habsguy says:

    and for you cournoyer12….whats with this infatuation you have with Kopitar and Getzlaf, you may want to take a good look at yourself in the mirror there bud….

  145. saku11 says:

    I`d rather see Carbo fired than Koivu traded. He`s been getting chances, he’s just not getting any bounces, like tonight when he batted the puck out of midair. It also doesn`t help when his right winger is a converted defensemen/4th liner/struggling power forward. He may not be vocal but he leads by example. Koivu’s a warrior. The captain doesn’t get to choose who’s on the ice when and what type of system they play. I’d like to see Gainey behind the bench again.

  146. Rocket Richard says:

    I wish your right, but I can’t see it with this team. To many ingredients missing.

    Price or Huet or both will need to stop every shot on net.

    Read my sig, this team need to develop a strong desire for this: You Must Hate To Lose

    ___________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  147. downeast hab says:

    You can trade whoever you like. If Crosby played on this team, with the coaching system, it wouldn,t work. A bean fart doesn,t smell as bad. The solution is FIRE THE COACHING STAFF. All they are is glory days projects. Its like a old saying around here; DE ARSE IS GONE OUT OF HER. finish

  148. Rocket Richard says:

    very good point. even with crosby as a hab, I question if they would be winning
    ___________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  149. Habs Suck says:

    You think Bob is considering another Bob to replace his lame-ass coach???

    Probably not, because friendship has clouded objectivity… it’s what happens when you hire your friends. Like having a family member work for you – tough job to let them go, so you find ways to give them other less important jobs until they want to quit on their own!

  150. Rocket Richard says:

    Your comments speak volumes

    I’ll send them to Gainey
    ___________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  151. Wops says:

    Ouch…

    Cole joked after the game that even he was trying to egg on the hostile Bell Centre crowd.

    “Towards the end of the game I was booing from the penalty box for the fans, just trying to start something for them,” he said. “We addressed it. You can get the crowd turned on them a little bit.”

    _______________________________________
    CH is for Chris Higgins

  152. saku11 says:

    I’d say keep Muller and Jarvis. Our powerplay is still the best. There’s definitely a downside to only hiring French Canadian coaches. It kind of limits the talent pool. Babcock’s a great coach, he also has a lifetime of experience. Sure he coaches the Red Wings but even when he was coaching the Ducks or in the AHL he did a great job. Denis Savard also looks like he’s a good coach. He definitely gets the most out of his players.

    I’m not suggesting that Carbo was only hired because he’s French Canadian, he had a great career as a player and really understands the game. That doesn’t make him a good coach though. If Gainey does fire Carbo, I’d like to see him step behind the bench for the rest of the season. Then in the offseason hire the most qualified coach, French Canadian or not. It’s not hard to hire a translator.

  153. Sulemaan says:

    What a game. They really didn’t show up tonight.

    My view:

    (1) We don’t have a great team – yet. We have a young team and we’re going to have to be patient and suck it up. Just like Detroit, Colorado (well when they were in Quebec), Ottawa, Anaheim and San Jose fans had to for many years. For years we’ve been trying to get better but we’ve finished just good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to win the cup. And not badly enough for a high draft slot. The exception being Carey Price when we got the 5th overall pick.

    (2) Speaking of which, Price had a bad game and got pulled. What’s wrong with one bad game? The kid is 20 years-old. Most of the games he’s played this year were against tough teams (Ottawa, Pittsburgh, Torotono, Caroline). He’s won at every level he’s played at WJC and AHL. You can say he had a bad game. But to question his ability or potential borders on insanity. Patrick Roy had a few bad games but won us a few Stanley Cups. Look what happened to the Habs when management and the fans gave up on him.

    (3) If we’re honest with ourselves, the team over-achieved in the first part of the year (with the exception of Ryder). We’re going to struggle to make the playoffs this year which shouldn’t be a surprise.

    (4) I don’t think a trade is a solution. What assets do we have to deal? Ryder? Huet? What would we get for them? Do you really think San Jose would trade Marleau for Ryder and Huet? If you were the GM of Tampa Bay would you trade Lecavalier or Richards for them? Nope, you would be asking for Price, Komisarek, Higgins, Kostitsyn. So then what? Do we want to deal our young prospects for some player that might get us into the playoffs and then get knocked out in the 1st or 2nd round? Can we afford the hit on the salary cap for some guy nearing his 30′s when guys like Higgins and Komisarek are going to be restrited free agents in a couple of years?

    (5) I hate watching this team lose but we need to stick to a long-term strategy in drafting and developing young players and sticking with them. That is teh path we’re on and that is how we will win the Stanley Cup.

    Look at the last Stanley Cup we won. Most of the key players on that team were drafted by Montreal and were with the team for years in the AHL and then got called up to the NHL. Patrick Roy, Eric Desjardins, Lyle Odelein, Mathieu Schneider, Donald Dufresne, Ed Ronan, Gilbert Dionne, Paul Dipietro, Guy Carbonneau, Stephan Lebeau, Benoit Brunet, Mike Keane, John LeClair, Petrice Brisebois, Sean Hill. Sure we had players such as Damphousse, Savard, Bellows and Muller acquired through trades but the core of the team were drafted players.

    (6) I look at this team and I think we have great potential. Young players already on the team such as Price, Halak, Komisarek, Markov, O’Byrne, A.Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Higgins, Latendresse, Lapierre, Grabovski and Chipchura. And young players waiting in the wings such as Fisher, McDonough, Carle, Subban, Valentenko, Yemelin, S.Kostitsyn, Maxwell, White, Pacioretty. That looks like a pretty good foundation to me.

    Frankly, I think we need to cultivate this group and give them time to grow. That is why I’d much rather see O’Byrne on defence than Brisebois. Nothing against Patrice but let O’Byrne make mistakes and learn from them.

    (7) The one thing I believe we are missing is a coach for the defense. We have some great young defencemen in the line-up or on the way but we need someone who can teach them. I’m thinking of Larry Robison or even Raymond Bourque. Carboneau, Jarvis, Muller (and Gainey to a lesser extenet) were all good forwards. Hell, even the goalies have Melanson as a goalie coach but what about the defense? The days when great veteran defencemen would show the younger defencemen the tricks of the trade are gone because of stupid trades and mis-management. Jacques Laperriere coached our defensemen for decades (people like Chelios, Ludwig, Robinson, Desjardins, Schneider) and then we let him go in the last purge.

    (8) Get players who want to be and play here. Players who have the same passion we do for playing for the Montreal Canadiens. I think guys like Higgins and Komisarek are perfect examples. We need to have more players like them. You don’t want to play here? Have a nice life. I’m thinking of Daniel Briere and Brendan Shanahan for starters.

    (9) If we don’t think we can make the playoffs then it’s time we look at dealing some assets that we have. Players such as Huet and Ryder should be dealt. They are unrestricted free-agents so we might as well get something for them or we end up with what happened with Souray (we got zero). This doesn’t need to be now but at some point before the trade deadline. I’d even consider dealing Kovalev. He’s been one of our best players but he’s on a big contract, he’s well into his thrities and he’s always been a streaky player. Let’s get some young prospects for him. People will probably think I’m nuts for suggesting that but even if we do make the playoffs, how far can we expect to go?

    (10) My last point is that we need continuity. For years the Canadiens had stability in the head office from a general manager perspective. From Frank Selke, Sam Pollock to Serge Savard, our best periods were when we had good general managers in place. Bob Gainey is a continuation of that and he shouldn’t go anywhere. Same thing from a coaching perspective. Since 1996 we’ve had Mario Tremblay, Alain Therrrien, Alain Vigneault, Claude Julien and Guy Carbonneau. That’s 6 coaches in 10 years! We need to be patient here as well and let Carbonneau improve.

    Sorry for the long rant folks, guess it’s a lot of built of frustration…

  154. Renegade says:

    I dislike Carbonneau, and think he deserves the boot, but the only move he made that was correct was pulling Price.

    Price is a great goaltender, of that I have no doubt, but he is not ready for the NHL yet. In the future, he will be a star, but better to put him back in the minors and let him develop further. Keep Halak and Huet as a combo here.

    However, I stand by the view of many people that Carbonneau is the main problem right now. He needs to go, no question about it. He is demoralizing the team and his players with his pessimism and his constant calling out of players by name. Thats just not how you coach, period.

    There is no “I” in team, so why does he have ANY right to call out each player individually? Answer: he doesn’t. Bye Carbonneau.

  155. Renegade says:

    Don’t get on Brisebois’s case, he is a good defenseman. He makes his mistakes, but who doesn’t. The whole team is playing badly right now.

    Also, Brisebois is getting 750,000 dollars a year. For an NHL player, thats nothing, so these “Brisebois has to go” posts better disappear, and fast.

    Lets work on controlling the puck and making crisp, controlled passes, eg. Playing like a TEAM.

  156. Rocket Richard says:

    the only point i like to mention is price. don’t knock price because 20 other guys don’t show up to play hockey.

    Price will be a great goalie, mistakes are part of the game. He will improve.

    ___________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  157. saku11 says:

    Good post. I’m usually a pretty patient person and don’t usually like to see people fired, but for some reason I don’t like Carbo as a coach. I look around the league and think maybe another coach could get more out of this team than Carbo’s getting. I trust Gainey in managing this team. I thank god JFJ isn’t. I think the Habs are slowly building a contender. By 2009-2010, I think we’ll have the among the best defensive corps in the league and a Vezina calibre goalie. I hope Gainey’s friendship with Carbo isn’t clouding his judgment. I also hope we sign Ovechkin to an offer sheet hehe.

  158. Chuck says:

    Love the assesment Selemaan, but I’d like to make a point about trading potential free agents before they walk. There’s a misconception that if a free agent walks, then the team gets nothing in return. This is, in fact, not the case. With a hard salary cap system, one of the greatest assests that a team can have is cap space, as all of the teams can only spend the same ammount on contracts. Cap space gives you flexibility in managing your the make-up of your team, allows you to give raises to players that you want to keep long term, etc. And depending on what’s available to take in return on a trade, unless it’s the exact piece of the puzzle that you’re looking for (ie, smeone that you’d want to spend your cap space on anyway), your probably better off letting your free agent walk and free up the cap space to spend down the road on a player that you really want.

    Also, if you have no cap space and you’re looking to trade or free up cap space, then the other team knows that you’re dealing from a position of weakness and you’ll have no leverage in trade talks, invariably you’ll end up with a worse deal.
    .
    .
    .

    ______________________________________________
    “Vote Saku for All-Star… or little Timmy gets it!!!”

  159. saku11 says:

    penalty shot!!! Crosby vs Luongo OT

  160. Sulemaan says:

    Great point Chuck. I didn’t realize that the salary cap definitely changes things. I guess the best option is dealing a player away for draft picks or prospects which would have a minimum impact on the cap and give you more room.

  161. Bouleau noir says:

    The CH is not an organization that cares about the vitues of a puck possession game and our brand of hockey is as sad as it is inneficient.

    Control of the puck, individually and collectivelly are aspects that naturally should get better and better as the season progresses,… execution should get sharper, the whole movement faster,… novel offensive plays and possibilities that werent accessible at the begining of the season should rise incrementally in numbers as the season proceeds…. those are normal outcomes when favorable automatism have been entrenched in the team’s choreography from the begining trought practices.

    Here in Montreal more often then not, the situation is reversed….. the more they play together the worst they get,… the team’s puck movement and control goes down, individual executions worsened while the player’s instinc and savy goes dry.

    So many puck dumping tonight and despite trailing behind Carbo kepted using 4 lines,… some poor display all around.

    Why cant our team grows better into the year ?
    Why dont we have an identity as a team yet ?
    Is our franchise drained down by an anti-hockey philosophy at the top ?

  162. Sulemaan says:

    Thanks Saku11. I think you might be right about Carbo. I figure we give him one more season or two at best and then go from there. I think your prognostication of ’09-’10 could be a distinct possibility. I don’t think Gainey’s friendship would cloud his judgment as seems to be pretty even-handed. If he needed to fire Carbo he would.

  163. Chuck says:

    Unfortunately, there aren’t enough teams that are willing to deal away decent draft picks for a rent-a-player’s salary hit on their cap… unless they’re the Leafs, that is. :)
    .
    .
    .

    ______________________________________________
    “Vote Saku for All-Star… or little Timmy gets it!!!”

  164. Sulemaan says:

    It’s always possible with the Leafs. After the Russ Courtnall for John Kordic (RIP) trade anything is possible, right?

  165. Chuck says:

    Maybe we could get their 1st-rounder in 2015 for Huet. I think that they’ve traded away all of their other first-rounders before then. :)
    .
    .
    .

    ______________________________________________
    “Vote Saku for All-Star… or little Timmy gets it!!!”

  166. WindsorHab-10 says:

    Something is terribly wrong with this team. There’s no pride or respect for the “CH” and the coaches must pay the price. Motivation and getting the team ready to play every night are coaching responsibilities. How long must we endure this nonsense?

  167. The Teacher says:

    I disagree, we call players out by name don’t we? I think when Carbo calls them out by name, it carries more weight. It should give them the incentive to work harder, embarrassed that they are letting down the team.

    You posted that there is no “I” in TEAM (TOGETHER EVERYONE ACHIEVES MORE).

    I agree with you completely on that front.

    It is not fair for individual players to not be pulling their own weight. Gainey and Carbonneau are part of their own team, the MANAGEMENT team. Their job is to ensure that the HOCKEY team is working COLLECTIVELY to obtain success. Carbonneau sees what we see, if people aren’t up to snuff, why shouldn’t he say so?

    Are the players playing for Carbonneau to win the Cup?

    No, I don’t think so, they are playing to win the Cup for themselves. But are they really? Or are they playing for the paycheck rather than the Cup these days?

    Sadly, I find it harder and harder to convince myself it is the latter and not the former.

    Do I think Carbonneau should be fired? I’m wavering on that, but I do like the fact he is candid when talking to the press. Do I question his roster moves? At times, but really, does he have much to work with this year? We all knew we needed two more pieces to really be a contender this year. We didn’t get those players, so we give time for talent to grow.

    We DO have a remarkable number of first and second year players on our team right now

    Obyrne
    Lapierre
    Chipchura
    Price
    Kostitsyn
    Latendresse

    We also have a remarkable number of really good 3rd and 4th year players in

    Komisarek
    Higgins
    Plekanec
    Streit

    I might be missing a few names, but you get the gist.

    The time is coming…..

  168. The Teacher says:

    Haha, I would have appreciated it more if you did the whole shebang :P, but I give you kudos for 5 really good lines.

    It’s kinda hard to win with no defence or goaltending. I guess that’s why there’s twelve days or needs rather for a hockey team ;)

    So I decided to try and complete the verse. Naturally, using all the required elements needs for a Cup winning team.

    12 Scrummers Scrumming
    11 Snipers Sniping
    10 Danglers-a deke-ing
    9 Defensive snarings
    8 Goalies A-jilting
    7 Rockets A-grinning
    6 Beatings A-Laying
    5 Lady Byyyyyyyyyyyngs
    4 Forwards scoring (copyright Cournoyer12)
    3 Wingers Winging (copyright Cournoyer12)
    2 Power Forwards (copyright Cournoyer12)
    1 True Stanley Cup

    Naturally, I had to include one of the ghosts of Habs history to complete it, wouldn’t we all agree :)

  169. The Teacher says:

    Brisebois still sucks, and THAT’S become apparent pretty fast, so yes, $750,00 is STILL overpaying him. Pointe Finale.

  170. A. Berke says:

    Sulemaan & Chuck:

    Very Good post and good point on freeing cap space.

    I also agree that we should be more patient with the team. Even though Carbo so far this year has been below my expectations, I’m in favour of giving him more time to develop himself and the team. Changing Coaches and Managers like we change our underwear is not a productive way of becoming successful.

    I like to see the younger talent being called up at every opportunity and getting more playing time. So far Price, Chipper, O’B, Kostytsin, Lapierre are doing fine and they need to develop more with more playtime. I like to see the others to come up as well.

    Last but not least, to all posters below: lay off from criticising Price. Even Brodeur or Luongo couldn’t do any better tonight with the team in front of them playing like this. Besides didn’t Roy spent a few years to become the goalie he was? For heaven’s sakes the kid is, what, 20 years old yet?

    Time to take some collective chill pills. Yes tonight’s game was awful, definitely was among one of the worst ever.

    Everyone please come back to earth to realize that the team right now, doesn’t have the necessary extra talent to make a good trade. We CAN NOT get a big scoring forward, a big D men (jack of all trades) etc etc like everybody is asking for, in return of what we can offer.

    I think trading Ryder and Huet before the deadline, if we can get maybe a half decent player in return, would be good. If not, time to clear cap space.

    Right now Ryder wouldn’t fetch a bucket of pucks. And please the cheering section for Ryder, spare me the lame excuses like: “30 goals last year”, “he’s in a slump” blah blah. Since the beginning of the year it has been 3 months and over 1/3 of the season is gone by. So where do you people are proposing to draw the red line? After next game of his inept play? next month? next year? At his salary level, he already got paid over 1 mil so far. Doesn’t anyone think that it’s time to cut the teams fiscal losses with him yet?

    I don’t have anything personal against him, in fact he seems to be a good person and if he were still scoring, I would be rooting for him.

    He may have good intentions and/or somewhat of a hard work. However, neither of these appear to be good enough for him to score. His abilities are falling short and this is not a slump, it’s a deficiency. He scored 30 goals last year but 17 were on PP during which the opposition mostly tried to cover Souray and hence leaving him in the open to shoot. And if anyone rushed to Ryder or the other players, then Shelly took the shots. Now we don’t have the same situation, and Ryder may still end up scoring 10-13 goals this year (same as last year’s 5-on-5 goals) but that’s not what the team needs at 3 mil/year. 10 goals/year scorers who are slow skaters and who can’t do much of anything else are dime-a-dozen in the minors.

    The teams woes are not like a reading light, we can not turn on the switch and voila, we have a Stanley Cup winner in one season. Let’s be a bit realistic about what we have on hand and how it can be made better.

    Finally, as some posters mentioned, for the salaries they’re paid the veteran players need to bring their A+ games to the ice every time and for no less than 60 minutes, they’re handsomely paid to do just that.

    Sorry for long winded post.

    Ali B.

  171. linp says:

    You are seeing the same problem as I do. The saddest thing is this team doesn’t seem to learn from their mistakes. This team doesn’t seem to watch tape to find out why they are so inconsistent. How can a team play one period like Detroit and the next period like an AHL team. Is it because the players are so undisciplined or the coaches didn’t get the right messages across? It is one thing to develop your young players, it is also important to have good coaches to guide them.
    I like what Sulemaan suggested to hire a defensive assistant coach. He would have told Komisarek not to leave someone free in front of the net during PK. The team will never improve if we make the same mistake over and over again.
    The coaches have to prepare the team to play disciplined hockey and to keep playing as a team no matter what the score is. They should keep reminding the players during the game. The whole team should analyze tapes and play the winning style of hockey.
    I want to be patient with our coaching staff and our young players. But I want to see improvements. I want to see the sign of a well-coaches and disciplined team playing consistent hockey and eliminating repeated errors.

  172. JA says:

    I agree that we need a coach for the defense, but why do we always forget the offense. We need a balanced team and not a team that can only play boring defensive hockey.

    I am disapointed in Gainey’s selection of coaches, he has turned it into an old boys club, Gainey, Carboneau, Jarvis and Muller to a lesser extent played only one style of hockey, they will form the Habs in their image for years to come.

    I watched the 1976 Canada cup on DVD this week, I was amazed at how good Guy Lafleur played defensively. In his prime I would say he played as well defensively as Lemaire and Carboneau.

    Priorities for next year:
    1. Hire a coach for the defense
    2. Hire a coach for the offense
    3. Draft the best available scorers, we have drafted enough defense and defensive players.

    Stick with the plan to build from within, don’t trade young talent.

  173. Sulemaan says:

    Couldn’t agree with you more about Ryder Ali B. It’s time for him to move onwards even if he does get 30 goals in the year and he turns it up in the second half of the year.

  174. WindsorHab-10 says:

    Hire a defensive assistant coach? We have 3 of them and what have they done or taught this team? They were the best at their craft in their days but look at the team now, outshot every game and on our way to becoming the worst pk in the league. There’s a cancer(s) within the team, the sooner we get rid of it(them) the better.

  175. Girth says:

    Interesting caption…

    My belief is that they (coaching/management) are willing to accept loosing in the short term for the chance at building a better future.

    For their sake, I hope it works. So far… not so much.

  176. Rocket Richard says:

    Well said flower.

    I just hope they can win one more game this year(2007) before 2008 arrives.

    ___________________________________________________
    December 1,2007 – rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

    Rocket Richards Moltivation for winning games, “You Must Hate To Lose”
    ___________________________________________________

  177. theflower says:

    I agree we need some more grit, but grit with speed. I must say though watching Lapierre and O’Byrne, no surprise to me have added a tremendous upside to this team. I expected that from them and believe both have a long term future on this team. Hopefully, they don’t lose their spots in the lineup anytime soon. I have been hearing rumors about Bouillon being moved, we will wait and see for who, if and what for. I don’t think we are involved in the Ducks deal, but there are a lot of teams getting very antsy lately. The big problem is that the new CBA and cap makes trading almost impossible. It seems the waiver wire is the only way, to move players these days and that means you get nothing and still get to pay half his salary, Yuck!

  178. AdamG says:

    i think everyone agrees that we are young and need time. but right now, we’re not going anywhere. we’re not growing as a team and we’re not getting better. it’s time for change. i think we’re all tired of saying “we need to be patient.” there’s a reason this team NEVER improves and never learns from past mistakes and never gives consistent effort. people who think these problems are going to disappear are fooling themselves.

    someone’s got to grab this team by the scruff of its neck.

  179. Smart Dog says:

    Hey Troy,

    I am with you. the habs are a young team that probably needs time. And we need toughness. I think Carbo knows this – but that’s also why he may not be a good fit for the team… he expects his style of play, but we don’t have enough tough guys. Gainey should trade for a couple of heart and soul Western-style (or Quebec or Ontario) players… Komi shouldn’t be the only muscle on the team. Not smart, not smart… we need toughness, protection… time and space to let our younger players learn how to kick ass.

  180. WindsorHab-10 says:

    Can’t wait until January 10, 2008. We play Boston.

  181. Larry says:

    I can’t get over how things have gone so bad so fast. We are the worst team in the National Hockey League right now.
    I don’t see any hope for this team. If we were playing hard it would be easier to take. But these guys aren’t even trying anymore.

  182. The Teacher says:

    Revision #1 Of The Twelves Wishes for Christmas

    12 Scrummers Scrumming
    11 Snipers Sniping
    10 Danglers-a deke-ing
    9 Defensive snarings
    8 Goalies A-jilting
    7 Rockets A-grinning
    6 Beatings A-Laying
    5 Lady Byyyyyyyyyyyngs
    4 Forwards scoring (copyright Cournoyer12)
    3 Wingers Winging (copyright Cournoyer12)
    2 Power Forwards (copyright Cournoyer12)
    1 True Star

    And a Stanley Cup Parade on St.Catherine’s

  183. Smart Dog says:

    How about this…

    5 players in sinnncccc!!!!
    4 solid checks
    3 periods of hockey in a row
    2 scoring forwards
    1 well-coached team!

  184. hhl says:

    i personnally would love to see vinnie in a habs uniform.the bobby smith or jean beliveau persona that this team can really use.if he were joining this team , the habs would go on a 10 game winning streak.but at what cost? does anyone know how much he is owed on the remaining 2 years? what i would like to see is huet sign a decent contract with the habs knowing he d be traded to tampa,(and tampa agreeing to this) thus increase his value as well as him staying in tampa for 3+ years. say a mil or 2 cheaper than vinnie.when vinnie crashes the net with the puck, it goes in.something mtl lacks.everyones confidence would increase dramatically.with all theraw talent mtl has, we should be able to pull something off.

  185. Smart Dog says:

    And I’d love to see a giant pile of steak bones just appear in my yard but I don’t think that’s going to happen either. Ruff!!

  186. Smart Dog says:

    Moving Bouillon would make sense. We have enough smaller players, though he’s tougher than most. I’m betting Koivu goes. He wants to be on a contender (not us anytime soon), and we need a change of chemistry.

  187. A. Berke says:

    No one is arguing the huge impact that Vinny will have on our team (or any other nhl team for that matter). Nobody can be that stupid. However, the reality is that TB is trying to unload about 25 mil they’re paying to 4 players (7.1 per/yr I believe, to Vinny) and it’s not that they are trying to get rid of their best player.

    So if we assume that a trade for Vinny against Huet, Ryder and Lats happens. TB will then end up with having to pay approximately the same amount of total salaries to the three players they’d be getting. I find it very hard to believe that there is a GM out there who will trade Lecavalier for the three names you suggest and end up paying the same salaries to them instead of Vinny. If nothing else, he will be chased out of town in a heartbeat.

    What TB would probably like is to unload any or all of the 4 highly paid players against some good but cheaper players + draft picks (they don’t cost anything right now). Well, we do have some players, especially Huet, who can meet their criteria but will Gainey going to give away draft picks? I don’t think so. Also at 7+ mil a year Habs need to make space ( a large one at that) in cap room as well.

    However, Habs fans can keep on dreaming at least (it’s free after all).

    Ali B.

  188. Smart Dog says:

    Yes, but it would cost us more than Huet, Ryder, and Lats. Throw in Plekanic or Kostitsyn, and a draft pick.

    Still worth it though I would HATE to see Pleks or Kostitsyn go. Especially Plekanic, he’s the only guy that tries to do it all….split the defense, draw fire so he can dish the puck, shoot when he gets an opening. But he’s what someone would want. Someone smart.

  189. theflower says:

    Ok, I have read a bunch of the posts and also posted myself and gave my two cents yesterday. So a few things more to ad. I see people talking about not having the right free agents. For the most part, the money teams paid for the free agents they got does not and will not be equal to the extra they paid to get them. It’s kind of like an auction, people get excited and pay more for an item than they would normally. So free agents are not a solution. Regarding the team, I agree we have depth at many positions and a ton of young talent on the way. I also agree that the main ingredient this team is without is a superstar. The hard question is how to get one. I heard Nick Kypreos say that he is certain Vinny wants to end his career in Montreal at the end of this contract. It has been a dream of his and he feels also the money he would get from all of the media and advertising would offset his reduced income in Montreal. Meaning the insane Quebec taxes. The Guy Carbonneau experiment is really up for debate. I wonder if this team would listen regardless of who is behind the bench and I love Saku, but maybe he isn’t getting through to his teammates either, so what is that saying? Sometimes change for the sake of change is a good thing, but in the end it is only a temporary fix for the real problems. Maybe in fact this team is not as good as we think it is? Who knows for certain. I know this, while many of us think Vinny is a pipe dream, I honestly think he could make a huge impact on this team. I think Feester from what I am hearing is definitely looking at his options and I know Vinny wants to be here. In my opinion, it would take, Huet because they need a goalie, Ryder, because a new environment might help him and regardless of what we feel about him now he is a proven 30 goal scorer and could still be one this year. Latendresse because Feester will want a youngster with size and frankly with the amount of hype for a well below average player now is the time to get something for him, because trust me when I say and have said from day one, this guy is the slowest player on the team and we have 10 guys in the ECHL who are better than him at least. Guaranteed he would never make Sutters’ Devils. As well as a draft pick or possibly someone like Pavel Valentenko, because of his promise. We would have to take Denis to get Lecavalier as well. Feester would not let go of Vinny if he could not get rid of Denis, because he is a 3million dollar piece of crap goalie. The good side of a deal like this is financially the numbers aren’t that far off, we could take up the difference in the Denis contract and Rollie would make him a better goalie. What we lose with Huet, Ryder and Latendresse is well worth the benefits of having Vinny. Thats my two cents and yes I am praying to the hockey gods everyday on this one!!!

  190. smiler2729 says:

    Nothing counts in the shootout other than the extra point for the team, shooters don’t get credit for any goals and goalies’ stats (SV% and GAA)are unaffected except for their won-loss record. So both goalies get a shutout if the game ends at 0-0 after 65 minutes.
    The shootout is stupid and should be done away with.

  191. A. Berke says:

    You may very well be a genius ;-)

    but after all them trades the question will be: Can Vinny play alone on the ice? Like the army ads in the US, he can’t be “an army of one”, other players are needed to complete the team, non?

    anyways seriously, I also would love to see Vinny in our colours. In fact if Le Gros Bill agrees, Vinny can even wear # 4b on his uniform.

    And the bottom line is, if I have to make a guess, TB wants to reduce their payroll for 4 players from 25 mil to at least, down to 10-15 mil. Trading a rather substantial part of our younger talent? I don’t see it coming from Gainey.

    On the other hand, trading Koivu, Huet and Ryder as you suggest, that’s possible, although I will be sorry to see Koivu go after all he has done for MTL. That idea can be more palatable if it’s him who wants to be traded though.

    Ali B.

  192. Smart Dog says:

    I agree with everything you say. And I don’t think VL will come here but I am not sure if that is just because I have stopped believing we could ever have such luck.

    But the smart part of my trade idea is that we trade Huet (free agent) and Koivu (wants to go I think) to teams that have the cap space – you are right that Tampa doesn’t want the salaries. THEN we trade what we get from those OTHER teams to TB… so we keep our prospects, or maybe lose one. See?? It actually makes sense and would leave us in a strong position with a lot of great youth, a few solid veterans and a bona-fide offensive star.

    The one thing the Habs have now they didn’t before is depth. Trade some of our older but still good players… and build, build, build a contender.

  193. theflower says:

    Well, I hear what you are saying, but if you read my post, you will notice that I included Denis in the trade as well. They will be giving up around 3.5 million in salaries that we would have to pick up. So yes they lose Vinny, but we have to take Denis and they still lose 3.5 million in salary and get more players for it. One youngster or two, plus a goal scorer and a present top 10 goalie. That was what I was saying. Of course they would not trade Vinny for equal salary back in return.

  194. Smart Dog says:

    Sad to say but we have the youth – Plekanic, Kostitsyn, Grabs, who have promise and would lower their salary burden. They would likely dump another player on us. This also means they may want Halak instead of Huet (maybe why they brought him up). Which means we would need cap space so how is this:

    1. TRADE KOIVU, HUET, RYDER to teams with cap space who are making a run, in return for picks and prospects.

    2. THEN TRADE young players, picks and prospects to TB for Vinny and that 3 million piece of baggage (forget the name).

    I am a genius!!

  195. Wayne says:

    I’ll agree with that!!

  196. Chuck says:

    Er, you’re calling Gainey a delinquent?
    .
    .
    .

    ______________________________________________
    “Vote Saku for All-Star… or little Timmy gets it!!!”

  197. Dave Stubbs says:

    Apologies to those whose comments on this post have been deleted by accident. The culprit, that being me, will be disciplined. I can’t believe they’re making me watch the Maple Leafs tonight…


    Dave Stubbs

    Habs Inside/Out
    Sports Feature Writer, Montreal Gazette

     

  198. Hoegarden says:

    Dave,
    this watching the buds tonight is punishment enough….

  199. WindsorHab-10 says:

    Serves you right. Just kidding.

  200. Chuck says:

    The Gazette wouldn’t spring for a “do you REALLY want to delete this?” key on your computer?
    .
    .
    .

    ______________________________________________
    “Vote Saku for All-Star… or little Timmy gets it!!!”

  201. newbrunswick troy says:

    OH YES: we need a trade really bad///but not our future
    youth / remember most hockey minds say the habs
    one of the best prospect groups comming up
    go ahead move a.k27
    or the tired saku

    what do ya think?

    e

  202. Hoegarden says:

    24 Cups,
    on my Locke comment for a possible call up;
    His flair for the net and scoring touch impressed me during pre-season. As far as his defensive skills go, only Lever could answer that. I was mostly concerned with the Habs need for help on their 5 on 5 play of late.

  203. G-Man says:

    Now we know what “mediocre” means. The Habs set about putting on a great display of it all night long. As the slide of 2007/08 continues, it’s become a question of where did the hitting go. Where’s the speed? Where’s the desire to win? Too many vets on this team to used to losing. Time to trade away the vets who are supposed to show the young guns how to win. They obviously can’t and won’t so why are they still here? I’m not saying everyone, however underachievers like Koivu, Ryder and Kovalev come to mind. Kovalev made me eat crow for a month, but he’s back to the same old, same old. Habs will not win with these players on the roster. Bring up more youngsters. Maybe then we’ll see effort for 60 minutes.
    As the late, great Edgar G. Robinson asked in the move “The Ten Commandments”, “Where’s your Moses now?” This team is lost in the desert, with no oasis in sight.

    Gilbert

  204. LTHF says:

    Dave, that a very severe penalty for such a minor offense. Think I would take a week shoveling snow over that
    (lol)

  205. WindsorHab-10 says:

    Few positives from the game against the Bruins that I hope this team can bring into tonight’s contest. I honestly don’t know what to expect but it would be nice to come out with a win.

  206. PGHABS says:

    I always find watching the Leafs slightly entertaining. I become a hard-core fan of the opposite team (for a limited time) no matter who the Leafs are playing….

  207. saku11 says:

    hehe, i do too. I hope Marc Savard has a big night.

  208. Dave Stubbs says:

    Oh, the key is there, Chuck. I just chose to ignore it when I was wading through the wrong field.


    Dave Stubbs

    Habs Inside/Out
    Sports Feature Writer, Montreal Gazette

     

  209. Chuck says:

    Quoting the wisdom of the big yellow guy… “D’oh!”

    :)

    .
    .
    .

    ______________________________________________
    “Vote Saku for All-Star… or little Timmy gets it!!!”

  210. ZepFan2 says:

    Damn you Dave! :shakesfist: lol

    Well, may as well repost once more.

    For the Carbo bashers and Nolan lovers.

    From Red Fisher…

    “Coaches target their stars

    I kid you not, but this season appears to be the year more and more coaches have decided it’s time to call out top players who fall short of what’s expected of them. Only the other day, Guy Carbonneau didn’t hesitate to criticize Andrei Markov, the team’s highest-paid player, and the coach left nothing to your imagination going public with Michael Ryder’s problems and, finally, making him a healthy scratch in Boston on Thursday. Then, on Wednesday, following the New York Islanders’ 4-3 shootout loss to Atlanta, Mike Comrie and Bill Guerin were targeted by coach Ted Nolan after his leaders delivered power- play giveaways that the Thrashers turned into shorthanded goals during the second period. “We talked about it before going out for the third period,” Nolan said. “We just can’t do those type of plays from those type of players. Certainly, things are going to happen once in a while, but Comrie gave it away twice on the same play. We just can’t have that.

    So Ted Nolan is not so far removed from Carbo after all!

  211. linp says:

    Pointing out a mistake to be corrected is acceptable. You don’t want this to happen again. I even find what Nolan said informative to his fans. Accusing someone of thinking too early to be an all star is uncalled for. The coach should be proud of his player selected as all star.

  212. skoehn says:

    Huet will be bak next week Carey will bounce bak once huet is back and if carbo will stop blaming everything on koivu and the goalies they might atually respect him and want to play for him…. Koivu and carbo are not liking eah other and i fear koivu want out he is a great player who has to lower his game to play with all the line juggling no wonder he looks so deflated…..

  213. POPS says:

    I agree that Carbo has irritated his captain. I can’t understand why he won’t put together a line of Koivu Kovalev and Ryder??!!! They produced before so why is Carbo so determined to keep the most talented offensive players apart????!!!! All teams bring the best players together when they need to break out of a slump or score a goal. Ottawa always goes back to Spezza, Heatley, and Alfie. Detroit uses Dats with Zetts. Pittsburgh uses Crosby with Malkin. Get the point?!! I am very frustrated with Carbo and his unwillingness to use this tactic. Even though I am frustrated I still believe that this team should not fire the coach or start to trade players. The team needs to get out of this mess from within. Going through a crisis will build character and make this team stronger going forward. Look at the examples around the league like NJ, BUFF, VAN, and PITTS. All of those teams had poor starts to the season and have slowly turned it around. The Habs will make it through and it needs to start with the coaching staff putting the top players together.

  214. LTHF says:

    Did anyone ever see a team come out of their own end with such ease as did the Canes last night, whatever, became of the forecheck. It becoming more and more evident, the Habs cant or wont stay with a skating team , re Canes, Det and Buf. The turnovers in all zones are just unreal, and it appears Markov isnt allowed or wont hit anyone in his own zone. What in the heck is going on with this team!

  215. habsguy says:

    well now isn’t this a surprise.. Habfans are now saying there’s a problem between Carbo and Koivu. Tell me guys where did you get this information. It’s NO wonder why all the star hockey players, the players who can pick and choose where they want to play don’t choose Montreal. Not even home grown talent want to (come home) and play for the Habs. Ya lets get rid of Carbo now so we can have 5 ex hab coaches coaching in the NHL…

  216. skoehn says:

    It been talked about on both tsn and hockey night in canada and it more so about how much koivu has done for the city of montreal as well as the canadiens. and how he gets treated like crap by both… not to mention koivu himself said he doesn’t want to stay in montreal if the rebuild is still the focus of management.

  217. skoehn says:

    It been talked about on both tsn and hockey night in canada and it more so about how much koivu has done for the city of montreal as well as the canadiens. and how he gets treated like crap by both… not to mention koivu himself said he doesn’t want to stay in montreal if the rebuild is still the focus of management.

  218. Norm0770 says:

    Carbo had NO coaching experience before he came to the Habs, and hasn’t proved anything while he has been here. I’m quite sure no other GM who is looking for a coach will say “You know, I could use a coach that incessantly juggles lines from shift to shift.”

    Vignault, and Julien are good coaches who were victims of circumstance in Montreal and Therrien’s Penguins play well inspite of his antics. Carbo will not go on to great success as an NHL coach if the Habs fire him (See Tremblay, Mario).

  219. Habsrule1 says:

    I agree with you 100%. Carbo is not the problem…not by a long shot.
    What he said in the post game press conference made perfect sense. The team is young, and they will make mistakes. The learning curve is different for everyone, and we have to accept the mistakes for a while. Price made a couple of mistakes, as did Kyle Chipchura last night…among others. You fans can decide….either support the team, and bear the fruits of their labour in a couple years, or jump off the bandwagon. I, for one, am sticking with MY HABS through the growing pains. I am actually becoming less dissapointed when they lose because I’m thinking there will be many occassions to teach as we lose some tough games. These young players are going to be very good some day soon, and I’ll be there to cheer them on all the way through.

    Go Habs Go!!

    Habsrule

  220. hhl says:

    hey dave, wanted to cheer u up by finding a worst matchup,
    but i really dont see any.mtl has 32 pts, bos 31 leafs 30.
    or thereabouts so,leafs in a shootout? or a power outage for
    the GTA for three hours starting at seven pm sharp?


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