Thursday was a busy day for hockey in Minnesota, with the Flyers making the biggest noise. But the Canadiens also made a move, securing defenceman Andrei Markov with a new three-year contract.
Markov will meet the Montreal media at noon on Friday, so we will have more on him later.
Here’s a look at some of the other news and commentary from Thursday:
Daily Hab-it: High risk, high reward
La Presse’ Marc-Antoine Godin writes about the Markov deal and the future of Benoit Pouliot with the Canadiens.
Holmgren shakes up Flyers: Globe and Mail
NHL rumour mill going crazy: Duhatschek
Brad Richards won’t waive n-movement clause: ESPN
And for the draft Friday night, here’s the official order via NHL.com
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This Brewer deal raises the price for Gorges?
Hope not. I feel Josh should get Hal Gill money at best. 2.25 – 2.5. He’s a great guy and defensively sound but if he wants 3+, we can start looking at other options.
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
I think 3 is what he is going to get ,and that is decent price imo, Roman Polak, very comparable to Gorges, he got 5 years at 2.75.
Polak > Gorges.
I am thinking a three-year deal, 3-3.25 M per year.
Not bad. As long as PG doesn’t overpay and signs Gorges for 3.75+, I am good.
Actually, the Markov deal raises the price for all defencemen.
First Markov’s then Brewer’s…… I think their agents just set the market for this year.
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
True, but worse for us, look what Bryzgalov’s contract just did for us resigning Price in another year! DOH!
I figured it’ll be in the 5-6mil range anyway. All the more reason to leave our cap space where it is.
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
I’ll take Price for 9 years 51 million any day.
Both have signed for the same as their previous money so taking cost of living into account and the increase in the cap they have less money than before so their agents have deflated their value.
“Wanting is often more pleasurable than having.It is not logical but it is often true.” – Spock
Don’t think it’ll factor…different players.
Following TSN’s Draft Buzz and it looks like the secret got out …..Jets again.
edit: word is Manitoba Jets on Darren Dreger’s twitter acct.
http://twitter.com/#!/@DarrenDreger
Edit: Says Winnipeg on the draft board though………. we’ll find out soon enough but 99.4% sure its the Jets nonetheless.
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
Really? Manitoba Jets, okay that is just a mutated way of trying to pacify the fans in keeping it Jets then. Oh well, justifies a complete renno of the uniform to ensure all fans must by new ones. I guess my old Jets Jersey and Hat are now official collector items.
Ebay!Ebay!
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
Dreger posted a correction, it’s WPG JETS.
Much better hey bwoar?
Edit: Just read your post lower down about clean break, you make alot of good points there. I just think the majority of people aren’t as detail oriented and just want to yell Go Jets Go,
I’ll bet they go with Blue and Gold like the Blue Bombers.Hope they have a jersey ready for tonight.
“Wanting is often more pleasurable than having.It is not logical but it is often true.” – Spock
The crest will be velcroed over the Moose logo they were hoping to go with!
Brewer back with TB 16 mil for 4 years.
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
Good signing by the Bolts. Overpaid Eric and the term is a bit too long, but he will definitely help them. Really stood out in the playoffs.
Very good signing by the Bolts. Brewer is a natural leader and has strong physical presence at the blue line. Overpaid? maybe, but remember. We just signed Markov for alot more and he has only played a TOTAL of 7 games last season and a little more than that the season before.
True say. Good move by Tampa, for sure. Now they need to re-sign Stamkos and pursue a goaltender.
Geez! This is the first and only second that I am second-guessing PG on the Markov deal. Salary comparison makes me wonder.
Still ok with the Markov signing though.
My thoughts on Gorges. Given his RFA status and previous salary I’d say he gets 2-3 years in the 2.25 to 2.75 million per year range. If however he gets a 3.5 million offer sheet (highly unlikely) I’d say take the 1st and 3rd picks instead and put the money on the Wiz.
As for the Flyers. Some have suggested they got weaker or have taken a step back. If it’s a step back it’s a step back maybe in the short term, but a very short term at that. Leaps and bounds coming soon for that organization. The Flyers have acquired possibly the best young player not yet playing in the NHL in Braydon Schenn. The other players are nothing to scoff at. Voracek is a 7th pick with 46 points last season and he’s 6′ 2″, 214 pounds. Plus this draft’s 8th pick. Another 2nd and 3rd down the line. Simmonds has decent numbers too. If you ask me I think they got stronger even on the short term and definitely on the long term. How anybody can criticize this move is beyond me. Signing Bryzgalov to 9 years though at 5+ million per. Yikes. I still think the brilliant move trumps the dumb-ass one.
HH, I agree down the road this team got stronger, but that is the confusing part. Bryzgalov and Pronger (esp. pronger) are limited in how many years they are going to be highly effective. Pronger is the straw that stirs that drink there, they need him to go all the way. Rest of the defence leans on him completely.
If those young guys do flourish and reach their potential then they’ll be as good as…….Carter and Richards.
That’s what gets me about it. Why take the risk? To sign Bryzgalov? Then it’s back to the same ol’Philly story. Unreliable goaltending. I know Bryz is good, but is he good enough to bet the farm on? In the playoffs? I don’t know, but I hope he likes pressure because Philly fans are awfully upset….
What if those players don’t pan out in the nhl? Then it went from being a short-term problem to a long term problem. They traded away their two best players on the chance that the players they got/draft will have better production than both Richards and Carter. Since the lockout ended, Carter is fifth in goals. That’s a production level the players the flyers got/draft might not be able to match.
The key piece I think in the whole trade is Schenn. I think they have a pretty good idea what they are getting in Voracek and Simmonds, nice players but not like Richards/Carter, Schenn if he turns out to be what they forecast that is the rainmaker in this whole thing.
You are right end of day Holmgren has taken a huge gamble. Have to respect him for having the stones he has though. And end of day, as long as he pissed off Richards, good on him!
My problem is, my mechanic is a huge Flyers fan who loves Richards and Hates Pronger. He will be very angry, I need my vehicles to go problem free for awhile.
No doubt that if Schenn pans out, its a great deal for the Flyers but I just don’t understand why take such a big gamble when you already have a great competitive team.
Even if Schenn pans out, is he going to be that much better than Richards? I’m not challenging, just asking.
I think it’ll be a bit longer term. With Josh being 26 now and turning 27 in August, this is pretty much a UFA deal for him. I think that having that assurance from the organization that they want him on board would be sufficient to entice him to keep it at around $3M per year on as much as a 4-year deal.
During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.
For a stay-at-home he’s not particularly robust and has little offensive upside. Without Gill how much of a shut down man is he? I doubt he gets 4 at 3M per. I am standing by my 2-3 years at 2.25 to 2.75M.
We shall see. Rob Scuderi wrangled $3.5M for 4 years out of the Kings as a 27-year old UFA. Volchenkov, who does little more than block shots, got $4.25M on a long-term deal from a cash-strapped Devils team. These are guys that I’m sure Josh’s agent is looking at and saying, “These are my comparables.”
During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.
Gorges is an RFA. Big difference. His current salary is 1.3 million. No way he’s getting much more than 2 million. If someone offers him 3.5 million take the picks, sign Wiz, find another serviceable but grittier stay-at-home D-man and sign him for 1-2 years.
Everything you’ve written is spot on, except, perhaps, for spending the money saved by Gorges receiving a slightly ridiculous offer sheet on Wisniewski. I would like to see him back, but the loss of Gorges would leave a defensive hole; it would, I believe, force us to go after a positionally sound, larger defensive defenseman. We have puck movers, but I fear for our ability to clear the net and field two top notch penalty killing units if our defense consists of Markov, Subban, Wisniewski, Gill, Yemelin, Weber and Spacek.
I also agree with your assessment of the Flyers. They will struggle at first as they take some time to gel and understand their new identity, but they will be a better team on and off the ice. In a few years, Shenn will be so beloved that he’ll all but make the fans forget that Carter and Richards even existed. I was highly impressed by the Holmgren, at least until I heard about the Bryzgalov contract.
Gorges at the term I suggest is good value. And the Habs do need stay at home defensemen I agree. His type of player however is very easily replaced, although he does bring leadership and intensity intangibles that are not always easy to come by. People are saying he is worth 3.5 million per. I say take the 1st and 3rd and let him walk at that price. He’s only making 1.3 million (cap hit 1.1M@3years = 1+ 1+ 1.3). I’d be very surprised if it hit let alone went above the 3M mark.
I love him, but you’re right to say that his skills are replaceable. Hopefully, if he were replaced, it would be by a defenseman who has similar defensive instincts and greater physical ability.
I believe it would be more than fair value to get a 1st and a 3rd in return for him.
Just watched the Markov interview on TSN. They asked if he had a no trade clause, to which he responded with “I have no idea”.
He then goes on to say he wants to finish his career with the Habs.
What a card…
I wonder if he was sincere or joking around. Either way he strikes me as the kind of guy who doesn’t really care much about contracts.
Glad he’s back!
I made some remarks about how he was the last hold-over from the pre-Gainey era, but after listening to the interview I am seriously recanting. He has this team’s logo sowed into his chest. Great sense of humour too.
I hope he’s ready to play to his elite level by mid-season. Please JM don’t lean on him too heavily early on.
Name’s out. C’est le Jets. Per Darren Dreger on twitter.
Nice.
Ya beat me to it
Shame that people here were stuck on that name, it carries far more lame baggage than good. But, that’s Winnipeg, a city perpetually stuck in its past.
GO JETS GO it is!!
Sorry bud.
My exams are finally over. All free now, going to be glued to the computer during the summer vacation.
Nah, it’s righteous.
In a league that once allowed a team to be named after an effin’ Disney® movie, of all things, a little bit of respect for tradition is welcome.
Speakin’ of respect, I’m still waitin’ to hear who will replace the EC’s standard bearer now that his nibs has been traded to LA.
You didn’t hear? I thought it was widely accepted that Brad Marchand was now the judge and jury in the East on accetable behaviour. A chip off Mike Richards Block!
Makes sense.
Wow, helluva season for the rookie.
The tradition of hiring idiots for GM. Of drafting guys that aren’t even in the draft. Of winning 9 games a year. Of not being able to keep what talent they managed to actually find. Of having Winnipeg Enterprises Corp run a franchise into the ground (that was our Atlanta Spirit Group moment).
Granted, those days are hopefully over. But I was hoping for a clean break from ‘tradition’. WPG is not a forward-thinking city, and this last announcement is further evidence of that. A beer-league town still hung up on drunken Bobby Orr and the AVCO Cup. I had high hopes for moving past the past.
But eh, it does make a lot of people happy. And that counts for more than any of the above.
I’m thinkin’ more about the symbolic tradition rather than Randy Carlyle stinkin’ up the ice, Tie Domi doin’ pizza ads, and Selanne lightin’ up the planet.
Like you say, it’s about what the people want: Righteous restoration.
I know what you mean about the baggage bwoar, but jets also never had an ownership group as stable as this current group. That is what I think is the most promising in the whole situation.
Totally agreed about the owners. Whatever the name we’re 1,000% better from the top down and I’m stoked about that!
Barry Shenkarow did have the appropriate abbreviation in his name BS!
I don’t really get it personally. This isn’t the jets team….that team is down south. This is just another team with the name replaced. Just seems silly to me – do they automatically transfer over the past glory?
Whatever though, not my team
The Cleveland Browns seemed to acquire all the alumni from the original browns (now Balt. Ravens). I think it is more the fans wanting the identity back rather than the specific group that left. Just like Jim Brown was a Brown, never a Raven, Bobby Hull was a Jet, he was never a Coyote.
Prior to the NHL allowin’ the move back to the Peg, there was no Jets team other than what existed pre-1996. As it is with all things pro hockey, the genesis of the team doesn’t really matter; it’s the city and people it now represents.
As it was with the Senators, is with the Jets, and will be with the Nordiques, my personal preference is to see consideration given to history.
Call me old school.
My additional preference is to not see another team named after a lame Emilio Estevez movie. Just watch Balsillie baptize his dream Hamilton/Waterloo franchise the Blackberries.
That got me thinking. Emilio Estevez movies that would make good names for the new Winnipeg franchise (I had to google – don’t think I could have named a single movie):
The Winnipeg Loaded Weapon
The Winnipeg Young Guns
The Winnipeg Maximum Overdrive
The Winnipeg Nightmares
The Winnipeg Repo Man
The Winnipeg Judgment Night
The Winnipeg L.A. Riot Spectacular
And my favourite:
The Winnipeg Never on a Tuesday.
Sold!
Poor Jeff Carter.
You and your buddy get run out of town.
Only he ends up in LA with an up and coming team, and you end up in Columbus Ohio, with a nothing team that is going nowhere.
How much does Columbus suck? People go to Cincinnati for a good time.
the team may not be all that but at least he gets to play with Nash
I think even him playing with Nash, team will still be bad. I quite like HF72′s summary, gotta believe Carter is pissed he not only loses his party buddy but he is in Columbus OH.
ya, no doubt that he’s mad about going to the bluejackets. That team will always be bad unless they address they’re defensive woes.
But Columbus is a party town they got Ohio State so many college parties for him to check out
“I savour it every day, sometimes before practice I’m skating around and I’ll look at the logo on my jersey – I’m playing for the Canadiens!”
- Mathieu Darche
Can’t believe ppl miss Lats! For real? I bet a whole bunch of promising rookies were pissed that Guimauve made the big show and they didn’t… And I won’t even begin on why.
No to Hammer. One year is barely palateable, but two?? No way. Sign him for one year. Sign Gorges. Save dough on Wiz….., and target PK’s buddy next summer: John Tavares… That’s who I wanna see on this team
Brian Gionta ($5.000m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m) / Max Pacioretty ($1.625m)
Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.250m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Mike Cammalleri ($6.000m)
Brooks Laich ($2.066m) / Lars Eller ($1.270m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / Zenon Konopka ($0.600m) / Ryan White ($0.850m)
/ Mathieu Darche ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
P.K. Subban ($0.875m) / Andrei Markov ($5.750m)
Hal Gill ($2.250m) / Josh Gorges ($1.100m)
Shane O’Brien ($1.600m) / Alexei Yemelin ($0.984m)
/ Jaroslav Spacek ($3.833m)
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($2.750m) / Alex Auld ($1.000m)
“I had the idea that I should beat up every player I tangled with, and nothing ever convinced me it wasn’t a good idea.”
Ted Lindsay
Shane O’Brien, Zenon Konopka and Brooks Laich aren’t about to sign for the same amount they played for last season. What happened with Yannik Weber?
Even after giving all those players a heafty raise they’d still have a few million remaining….
“I had the idea that I should beat up every player I tangled with, and nothing ever convinced me it wasn’t a good idea.”
Ted Lindsay
Josh will be making a lot more than the $1.1M he made last year. By about 3x. And Laich will be looking for a big payday on his first UFA contract — weak class + cap way up = big bucks.
During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.
hh…Josh Gorges at $1.1m?????????????????
are u crazy.
Defenseman Eric Brewer re-signed by the Lightning to a four-year, $16 M contract.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=369866
Just a reminder: Contracts are negotiated.
Mattyleg, I’ll be more explicit: Too small to be effective in front of Price against larger forwards. A shutdown guy who can handle the Getzlafs of the world, fine. But Gorges ends up in his own net. That isn’t worth 3M a year to me, and I hate to see a team pay premium dollars for intangibles when the basics are only decent.
By the way, people at the office here in Calgary are cringing at these rumours about Ryan Smyth going to the Flames. One coworker has already threatened to jump off a skyscraper if they make that move.
Wonder about Gorges? where are they in negotiations? Will Wiz be our 7th D? and Is Sopel gone?
Sopel was just pinching in due to injuries. I think its safe to say that he wont be back.
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
Ian it was only yesterday a scary nervousness hit me re Gorges. Maybe this isnt as ‘done a deal’ as we might think. And if so I think it would be from Gorges’ side. He seems to be the type of guy who holds his cards pretty much hidden but also acts in a very pragmatic manner. Also I get the sense Gorges likes it out WEST.. maybe he is hoping to stay there.
Just voicing a fear I am having.. no real clue here.
I think it comes down to priorities. Markov had to be dealt with first, if signed move on to Gorges, if not jump on Wiz first. Now that Andre is done, I would guess Gorges is done in a short time.
Can’t see Wiz being a 7th D. Especially after that Brewer contract. He’ll be looking for somewhere between 4 and 5 mill.
I just don’t get the logic. 2 years for Pacioretty and 3 for Markov … It should have been the other way around but who am I to judge right?
I think Pacioretty will still be RFA in two but UFA in three.
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
I think 3 yr term would have been very difficult negotiations.. from Pac’s perspective any good agent would have demanded money equivalent to an established player least in yr 3 and from PG’s perspective it would have risky having to meet that monetary demand.
Unfair to expect Pac to be paid same 3 yrs from now if he is what it looks like he could be.
The question is- What could the Habs have gotten on the free agent market for $6M or via trade for that matter?
L Train
This is what Scotty’s goal should be.
Please Scotty. Please. 15 G and 45 A. At least. Please.
A 60 point season, at least.
Would like to see Cammalleri and Gionta score 30+ this season. 23+ for Kostitsyn, Plekanec and Pacioretty.
I can see Desharnais potting 35+ points easily. 30ish for Eller.
If Markov remains healthy he can easily put up 60+ points along with Subban, who will likely put up 45+ points.
We need another scorer. This doesn’t seem enough. Even if Gomez reverts back to his 60-point player form, it’s not enough. Either that or more depth. Pyatt, White won’t cut it.
I am starting to believe we need a Pouliot. A 30 point player. He got limited ice time and put up 30 points.
Yes, I have yelled his name in disappointment whenever he took an idiotic penalty and wanted him outta town.
But this team needs him. His scoring ability.
Willing to see if Palushaj can step up and pot 30 points..can he? Not sure. A 30 point player won’t come cheap at the FA. Asking price, at least 2 M.
I am starting to believe in what Bugs has been saying. Sign Pouliot. 1 year deal. Let’s give the kid one more chance. He was 8 points behind Gomez. Without playing top minutes.
am I the only one that thinks the draft is overrated??
we can talk circles around it all day long but if you don’t have a top 3 pick, any pick is as good as the other.
- Gomez is holding down the “overpaid” button
It’s fun to watch the bobble heads go on and on about trades that don’t happen.
Think this year is different.. I think even at 17 HABS can land a good palyer.
The thing with the draft is if you are drafting in later rounds it may be better to place more emphasis on physical stature than pure junior stats.
No, you’re not the only one. The drafting age is a tad premature to rate effectively, and there are other variables.
——————————————————————-
” There were giants on the earth in those days; and also after that (The Deluge), when the Sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.” Genesis 6:4
“We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin
Here’s a couple of possibilities from thescoutingreport.org:
13. RC Mark McNeill – Prince Albert (WHL)
DOB: Feb. 22/93 | Shoots: R | Height: 6.02 | Weight: 210lbs
Midterm Rank: 19 | League Rank: 2nd WHL | Country Rank: 9th Canada
McNeill did a lot of things well this year. On a weak team, McNeill proved that he could compete and succeed against the best players from around the WHL with minimal help as he tallied 81 points in 70 games this year. McNeill has a nice mix of speed, size and grit. He was among the fastest skaters at the CHL Top Prospects game and combining that with his size and grittiness make him hard to handle when he is on his game. He can be guilty of taking the occasional shift off, but his combo of speed, skill and grittiness (including a willingness to fight) allow him to project nicely as a 2nd line center.
18. RC Rocco Grimaldi – USNTDP U18 (USHL)
DOB: Feb. 08/93 | Shoots: R | Height: 5.06 | Weight: 163lbs
Midterm Rank: 26 | League Rank: 1st USHL | Country Rank: 1st USA
Easily one of the more skilled players available in the draft, Grimaldi has a proven track record of production at every level. Strong work ethic and dedication to the game have enabled him to develop skills in skating, passing, shooting and puck handling that could comprise a video on “How To….” All indications are that he’ll keep developing as he moves up the ladder. The only obvious knock is his size.
20. LC JT Miller – USNTDP U18 (USHL)
DOB: Mar. 14/93 | Shoots: L | Height: 6.01 | Weight: 198lbs
Midterm Rank: 30 | League Rank: 2nd USHL | Country Rank: 2nd USA
The skill set to be reliable 2 way forward has always been there as prior to this year, Miller has been at worst a strong skating centerman who plays hard on both sides of the puck. He always possessed the puck skills necessary to contribute offensively but lacked that consistency leading to questions about his hockey sense. Miller seems to have answered those as the year progressed culminating in an excellent showing at the U18’s. There are some rumblings that the North Dakota recruit will opt for Plymouth in the OHL.
22. LD Jamiesen Oleksiak – Northeastern (NCAA)
DOB: Dec. 21/92 | Shoots: L | Height: 6.07 | Weight: 240lbs
Midterm Rank: NR | League Rank: 1st NCAA | Country Rank: 12th Canada
After getting a few viewings of Oleksiak in the second half of the season, it became clear to us that all the talk about Oleksiak is justified. The thing that will jump out at you aside from likely being the biggest player on the ice in almost every game, is that he’s a pretty good skater for his size and moves well laterally as well. Oleksiak doesn’t really have the offensive tools to be an offensive guy at the next level, making his role more of a shut-down type guy.
You can check out everything around them at: http://www.thescoutingreport.org/tsr-2011-top-100-skaters-125/
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
So how much are the Wiz’s negotiation rights going to go for?
At this point, I would say a late third round pick or mid-level prospect.
With the speculation that he might want to go to Detroit, and with the opening created by the retirement of Raflski, I would love to see Wisniewski sent to them in exchange for the rights to Teemu Pulkkinen. Not that Ken Holland would do that deal, though.
Who’s Teemu Pulkinen?
How about Wiz and Pouliot for a 2nd?
A 2nd rounder next year would be good. Not a great draft year. I don’t think Wiz will be traded though — other teams may as well wait until he’s a UFA, especially with the Markov deal. Most must be assuming Wiz is not going to resign here. Unless that is why they are waiting on signing Gorges…to bait teams to think that they might resign Wiz and thus invite interest in a trade for him…..theories, theories, theories….
Pulkkinen is a slightly undersized Finnish winger who was drafted last year in the forth round. His fall was quite a surprise to me, and can be attributed primarily to his having suffered some injuries and, likely, to his lacking high-end skating ability. He is not a real two-way forward, but could reasonably be a second line sniper.
I felt he was deserving of a late second round selection last year with our 57th. This past year he scored at a ppg pace, was second on his team, Jokerit Helsinki in the SM-liiga, in goals and points behind a 28 year old and was first in assists. He has also preformed very respectably in international competition.
As I said, I’m all but certain the Red Wings won’t part with him.
Okay, now I really need to catch a pre-draft nap, I worked a graveyard shift.
Since it’s been buried a bit, my 1st-round wishlist, with consideration that MTL may trade down and who I want in that scenario.
http://bit.ly/lEkyY9
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
If they get either McNeill or Scheifele I’d be ecstatic. The other picks are meh IMO.
There’s always a risk of injury; I play hockey, not chess.” – Andrei Markov
lol
Seems PG is shopping Poliout, and is talking to wiz’s agent, but seems likely he will test the ufa. Also hammer wants 2 years and the offer is 1. Lets hope he doesnt take it lol. I love the heart hammer has, but he is getting up there
The big sleeper this year is definitely Ryan Murphy. That guy is outstanding. He is the kind of D that has a gifted skillset you only see once or twice per decade. If the Habs can move up to draft him, they would have a heck of a D in 2-3 years with Subban and Gorges.
Murphy is just so good with his stick, has a great poke check, great shot, some of the best hands of the draft and is super fast. At 5’11” he’s not big but he is not too small either and he loves hip checks. His size is the reason he is ranked lower than he should be. He also has the rare ability to carry the puck end-to-end several times per game. I really hope we don’t let the Bruins get him.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he pulls off a “Jeff Skinner” and gets drafted around #10 to eventually end up having the best rookie season.
PG make it happen!
I’m tired of D men. I want a goal scorer that will be chanted like PK.
Murphy is projected to go in the first 8 picks ATM but no way he falls out of 10th IMO. I still think CLB was stupid to give away 8th overall when this kid could have solved a lot of their problems on the back end.
That’s an expensive move up as well, I doubt we have anything PHI or Boston want either to get to that range.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
I agree that it would be expensive to move up especially considering the teams we would have to deal with. I wouldn’t even be surprised to see Murphy go in the top 5.
I also would like a goal scorer but it seems every time Timmins takes a guess it ends up backfiring (McDonagh, Fischer…etc). With Murphy having so much talent, I am persuaded it would be a steal. However, as you said, it is probably not a realistic option as we would have to give away a solid prospect.
Crap. You just reminded me. Philly gets 8th. Boston 9th. Aaaaaaargh!!!
So who could get if we wanted to trade Weber and Pouliot….(not that I want them to)..but these two young players could go in exchanged for the top 6 forward we seem to be missing..
The Habs will have enough money to go and sign that top 6 forward without a trade, that is if there’s one available the fits the bill.
“I had the idea that I should beat up every player I tangled with, and nothing ever convinced me it wasn’t a good idea.”
Ted Lindsay
I don’t see how those two could return a top 6
Also off draft topic (don’t know enough about the players, sorry). But wouldn’t it have been much better if Winnipeg’s first home game was against the Coyotes?
Rubbing salt into the wound a little, eh? I don’t think the NHL has enough of a sense a humour to do that. I spell it I-R-O-N-Y.
haha, good point. Would’ve made for a compelling game though! And I’m not positive I want to be the first team to have to play in that barn…
We opened and closed Mellon Arena with wins. Maybe we can do the same with the MTS Centre?
MaxPac will raise 2 Stanley Cups in his career to show Chara that his is worth nothing.
There have been some noises that Gorges’ agent is asking too much and that’s holding up a deal. I wonder if he reads this site and is asking for 3.5M?
If that’s somehow the case (!) I’d throw my hat in to trade his rights immediately and spend a bit more to sign Big Wizz. I’ll bet we could get our hands on a 2nd round pick, and maybe another 4th for an RFA guy like him.
He’s easier to replace than Wiz so I agree.
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
I think Gorges is a keeper. The Wiz is great and had a great season, but with Markov, Subban and the emerging Weber, I think we need a defensive dman more. The Wiz could be pretty nervewracking in his own end sometimes. Gorges deserves a good contract. Maybe not 3.5, but definitely a good long-term deal. He’s earned it and he has the respect of a lot of his teammates.
I agree about needing a defensive guy, but for a guy who can’t clear his own net and has no offensive game, 3.5 is too much. Even 3 is pushing it, hard.
Let me put it this way:
Gorges asks for 2.5 – fine. Gorges goes to 3.5? Spend 5 or 5.5 on Wiz. Then offer Hamrlik 2-2.5M to be that #6 defensive guy. It’s not my preference, but I see the dragging on of Gorges negotiations as completely linked to the possibility of the old guy coming back. I’m going on the assumption that it’s one or the other and if Gorges’ agent is too stubborn there’s a player who is dying to be back next year, who could handle bottom-pairing minutes without issue.
I know it sounds cliche, but the intangibles in Gorges game make him a stud in my mind. Heart and soul guy that will do anything — including block a shot with his head. Great guy in the room. And consistent. That pairing with him and Gill was nearly as responsible for our run to the conference fianal as Halak was. You’re paying for a lot more than his offence and defence. I’d be fine with a four year deal at 3 mill per. I really would hate to see this guy go, so I think I’ll have to respectfully disagree. But I’m no GM, so we’ll see!
After 2nd thought and reading some replies he is a keeper but given his RFA status and previous salary I’d say 2-3 years in the 2.25 to 2.75 million per year range. If however he gets a 3.5 million offer sheet (highly unlikely) I’d say take the 1st and 3rd picks instead and put the money on the Wiz.
Wiz over Gorges makes sense. Plus Gorges is a RFA so the Habs would get a 1st and a 3rd pick in return if somebody offer-sheets him 3.5M.
I’d take Gorges in a second over Wiz.
Who will play on the PK?
Gill and… Wiz? no.
Gorges is our second-best shutdown d-man.
You can’t have a decent team with just offensive D-men.
—Hope Springs Eternal—
See my post above on Hamrlik/Gorges. You also can’t have a decent team throwing away 3.5M on a smallish #5 defenseman.
Smallish means nothing.
Just like largish means nothing either.
—Hope Springs Eternal—
True, HH. I never considered that 1st + 3rd was the compensation. I can’t think too many GMs would be that stupid; I figured 2nd + 4th was decent. Looking at the numbers someone could offer him ~ 1.5M-3.1M and only give up a 2nd rounder. Given that fact, IMHO PG has the green light to either sign him in the 2-3M range or go get a high 2nd rounder and sign Wisniewski. Almost prefer the 2nd option in fact.
Gorges is an RFA and will come in cheap. 2-3 years at around 2.25 per year. I highly doubt he’d get more than 2.75 per.
I agree to. PG shouldnt get hung up on Gorges and lose WIZ. But I would prefer to sign Gorges for reasonable amount and save money for some of those NEEDS.
But if Gorges is being you know what.. then trade his rights (is that allowed) and sign WIZ.
Gorges we should sign and package him in a deal IMO. That leaves us signing Wiz who is more of an asset on D with his physical play more than Gorges. We have no physical Dman on our roster besides the inexperienced Emelin.
Hate to say it, but I think Gorges days are numbered here.
“We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “
HEY BOONE, HICKEY,
I assume you read this stuff most of the time but I opened a real can of worms when I suggested that the Flyers were able to make these blockbuster deals because they looked after their pipeline of players.
WHEREAS the HABS have given up on too many young players too early. If we had SK and Dags and Lats and Grabs, we COULD trade away Gionta and Plekanec for the right return and still have goals… but we don’t because the Habs have done a poor job of assessing or nurturing their own people.
Obviously there is interest in the question… it would make a GREAT article. Of course you’d need to be brave to state the truth wouldn’t you? Journalists are supposed to get to the truth right? Isn’t that the point?
A serious journalist would have to be very, very brave indeed to go around writing articles to back up your point of view.
And what if they print a truth that disproves your point?
I’m okay with disagreement. And these guys know our team and the situation better than us. I’d love to read what they think.
Latendresse was a fat, lazy, unmotivated punk who carried his performance onwards to MIN who after a big outburst, took his big contract, got fat in off-season, got hurt during the early part of the season and blew up like a tire during ‘recovery’. You can’t put lipstick on a pig SD.
I’d count on Gionta to score more big goals than anyone you just mentioned any day of the week and work 3x harder as well.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
Robert – Aside from that, how is he:-)
I’ll call your Lats and raise you a Samsonov!
We only had to ensure Samsonov for 63 games Steve, we endured 3+ years of Guimauve all the while, the French media pretty much insulting previous Habs legends by comparing him to them, guys who actually cared about winning.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
Yes, sign players to ridiculously long contracts while overspending and getting in cap trouble. Then trade 2 of your best players, so that you have space to sign a top goalie(only one series won in his playoff career). This is great for their fans if they think the only way management is compenent is if they could pull off ‘blockbuster’ deals!
That woud be a great article to read the second week of April as all Habs fans have no team to cheer for in the playoffs. I didn’t like that SK74 was given up on but I’ve gotten past it – a combo of SK74, Grabs and D’ags get you more goals for, a lot more goals against and a 12th place finish in the conference. No Thank You!
You’re not stating the truth, though, SD, you’re being beligerent for some reason.
You’re taking average players (as you did below) and you’re elevating them to elite status in your mind.
SK? Wait a season. You’ll see.
O’B? May become a decent 4th-5th D-man, nothing more.
D’Ags? Please. 3rd liner, of which we have plenty.
Grabby? “I won’t board the flight to LA because you benched me last game.” WTF.
You’re going to have to give better examples than that if you want to make a valid point.
—Hope Springs Eternal—
Gabovski and SK were not “big trees”.
They started out like houses on fire, but imploded by pouting and their adolescent behaviour in general. Does anyone remember their “showdown” at centre ice in Montreal ? Past their bedtime and they should have been embarrassed.
They are talented – at times, but they lack consistency and, more importantly, character.
To use your ‘tree‘ analogy from below, SD, these guys lifted their legs to piss on it way too often while they were here. I am fine seeing them both gone.
ALWAYS Habs -
D Mex
with parity in the league the key is to make the playoffs and see what happens…to win the cup you probably have to win a few 7 game series…the habs like most teams once in the playoff can win rounds but just as easily get beaten in the first round. next season will be no different while we hope goal scoring will improve the majority of the games will come down to 2-1 ,3-2 scores…
This GM game is so freaking simple.
Habs #1 pick to Dallas for Richards.
Gomez and Nash to a celler team that needs to get up to the cap. In return Habs get a 6th pick and a player that has low salary but needs to be bought out.
really…richards can veto any deal but if he does not dallas would
think gauthier is on drugs as they make the trade and richards still becomes a free agent. i hope you mean 6th rounder not 6th overall otherwise you are in the same boat as gauthier…
6th rounder yes. and of course the assumption is Richards and Dallas both agree to the deal. Usually 2 are needed to tango – in Richards case it’s 3.
Scott Cullen’s take on the two big trades.
Not sure it’s been mentioned that much but Philly also receives a 2nd rounder today from the Richards trade.
tsnscottcullen: In case you missed it, my takes on #Flyers trades – Carter: http://t.co/liS0iT6 and Richards: http://t.co/VBF5hQm #cbj #kings #tsn #nhl [via Twitter]
I’ll take a wild guess and say we’ll select either McNiell or Oleksiak if they are still available.J.T. Miller if they aren’t. After signing the usual suspects we still have a ton of cap space left. If PG were able to dump Spacek then we would be rolling in dough. Can’t help but think PG has something in mind.
“Wanting is often more pleasurable than having.It is not logical but it is often true.” – Spock
If it’s Oleksiak, there better be a big growth in his play as a two-way defencemen otherwise we just drafted the same guy as last year.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
If he plays the opposite side to Tinordi I think they might consider it.Hard to resist that size. Otherwise they’ll go for the best forward they can get. Preferably a center. McNiell is what I’m hoping for.
“Wanting is often more pleasurable than having.It is not logical but it is often true.” – Spock
I’d be happy with that! What’s better than one 6’7″ stay at home defensemen? TWO 6’7″ stay at home defensemen. One thing the Habs don’t get any credit for whatsoever: the ability to seemingly pull undersized offensively gifted D-men out of nowhere. We could do worse than drafting complementary guys to that success. I do agree that forward is the more pressing need but eh, if Oleksiak is the BPA at 17, well then double up, hombres.
Yes but where’s our future scoring? That leaves us at Gallagher, Kristo, Leblanc and Avtsin for future Top-6 talent and with only Avtsin at 6’2″, I can’t say I like the idea of not adding a first-round scoring talent when one of our team’s issues is we lack depth scoring.
I just would rather take a big defensive D in a later round selection this time around, Tinordi was fine for maximizing odds we’d get a 6’7 D who could play the NHL but I don’t like doing it 2 years in a row myself. Unless Oleksiak is closer to Chara/Myers rather than Gill.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
Can’t argue with that, SF. I’m firmly a BPA guy once the top 5 is gone so we’ll just have to see who’s on the board.
Yup. Oleksiak I’m not so sure seeing as though we got a big D last year. Dont rule out Rocco Giamaldi as well, he’s coming out of the USHL too and the Habs have been dipping into that pool quite a bit the past couple of years with good results. 1. McNeill 2.Miller 3.Grimaldi 4. Oleksiak 5. Beaulieu. All depends which draft rankings your looking at as well.
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
RAF – I’ll break my golf clubs in half if we draft Grimaldi. Been there, done that.
I also think there’s no way you choose Oleksiak over Beaulieu.
Already have the big D man last year. Its just a question of if PG wants to compliment Tinordi with another big D or something more skilled. Its just a difference of #4 and #5,not #1 and #5……jeez.
On another suspect, this is what thescoutingreport.org had to say about Saad, dunno how credible a source they are but its still a quick and interesting read:
40. LW Brandon Saad – Saginaw Spirit (OHL)
DOB: Oct. 27/92 | Shoots: L | Height: 6.01 | Weight: 196lbs
Midterm Rank: 11 | League Rank: 11th OHL | Country Rank: 9th USA
Suffice to say, TSR’s thoughts on Saad have plummeted as the 2010/2011 season progressed. We had very high expectations for Saad this year; his first in the OHL, but have never seen the type of game that warrants the pre-season hype. Saad is a big winger with good speed, a hard shot, and a fairly good head for the game, but he lacks the drive you need to be a top line player at the next level. Saad shies away from contact despite being a big player and never really uses his body to his advantage. He doesn’t drive the front of the net enough and just isn’t willing to pay the price. All is not lost with Saad, as he does have goal scoring talent, but he needs to show a lot more if he wants to have that opportunity in the NHL.
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
I’ve read similar about Saad in Future Considerations, serious concern about his hesitance and wariness about physical play. Bad warning sign if a guy is afraid to get hit in juniors.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
RAF – “Its just a difference of #4 and #5,not #1 and #5……jeez”
You’re right. Sorry abou that.
Steve
May be a bit overly negative. I wouldnt be disappointed if he is picked.. in fact if the draft goes in order of ranking Habs should go right ahead and pick him.
I can see the gears spinning in PG’s head trying to figure out he could get high enough in the draft to get Beaulieu.Probably won’t happen though.
“Wanting is often more pleasurable than having.It is not logical but it is often true.” – Spock
There is no possible way of getting rid of Spacek’s contract unless he’s traded. He’s got one year left on a 35+ contract. If he retires – we’re stuck with his cap hit. If he’s waived and makes it to the AHL, we save $100,000 on the cap (essentially nothing). Spacek is with the Habs for one more year. We should all come to terms with that now.
Yes,we know. You can read “trade” into the word “dump”
“Wanting is often more pleasurable than having.It is not logical but it is often true.” – Spock
The best part of the draft used to be trying to guess which teams the Hab picks would be playing for in the next five years.
I’m guessing Brandon Saad if he’s still around but I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see them draft a d-man.
Not a fan of Saad, talk is he doesn’t like physical contact at all and has consistency issues. If he doesn’t like being hit, he’s not exactly filling in a need for MTL.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
Off topic of the draft, but I’ve been away for the past few weeks, so I’m trying to catch up. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it appears as though the lineup is shaping up to be…
Cammy – Pleks – ?
Gio – Gomez – Patches
AK46 – Eller – Darche
White (unsigned) – Desharnais – Moen
Markov – PK
Gill – Gorges (unsigned)
Yemelin – Spacek/Weber
Price
Auld (unsigned)
And we have about 15 million to work with. That about right?
That’s the case. Though your lines may not match those intended by management…. I’d love to grab a top RW but alas, don’t see it happening.
EDIT: Weber is still unsigned too.
What would you guys think about drafting grimaldi?
I know he’s a bit on the short side but I’ve been reading that if he were a couple of inches taller that he would be a top 10 pick. So the talent is definately there but the size isn’t.
Fans’ll go apeshit if they draft another smurf. I think they’ll either reach for a forward or draft a d-man. What I read about the forwards likely available when they draft doesn’t exactly wow me.
NO. He is tiny, I dont care that he has the skill. Theres a lot of players in the first round who will just as productive in the NHL and much bigger. We have Gallagher coming up. He can be our next Gionta. Grimaldi is also obsessed with God. To the point where I cant stand listening to him talk. I dont usually have a problem with people being religious, but he takes it overboard. He wants to be a pastor or something when he is done hockey. Also heard he has been a problem in the locker room in the past.
That God thing just sealed the deal. No way to Grimaldi. Not even if he’s available in the 5th round. He’d just come to Montreal and end up getting into a scandal with prostitutes or something.
That’s another thing that irks me about Grimaldi (aside from his size, I acknowledge he has all the skills in the world but MTL has too many small, small forwards as it is), there’s talk he’s pretty active about trying to get his teammates to convert as well and how the hell is that going to play in an NHL locker room? Or an AHL one even? Last thing we need is the team saying get this kid out of here for trying to lead us in Bible Study after Practice.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELLS YOU! THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELLS YOU!
NO. WAY. Under no circumstances should the Habs pick Grimaldi. The Habs already have Brendan Gallagher. There’s no need or place for another vertically challenged player on the Habs. Picking Grimaldi would have to be amongst the stupidest picks the Habs could make.
What they need is a big centre, one that has the potential to be a #1. Zack Phillips. He was 7th in regular season scoring in the Q. He was 6th in scoring in the play-offs. He won a Memorial Cup.
If ZP is available when the Habs pick and they pass on him I will have a major HIO conniption. Unless of course they select another centre or at worst a power forward.
You think the Habs need to be gritty and an ‘at worst’ pick is a PF candidate? And 6’1″ isn’t really a ‘big centre’ either, that’s 1″ over Leblanc. Phillips skating is in issue and the question still stands, what are his totals if Jonathan Huberdeau isn’t his linemate.
I still think Scheifele is the way to go for a C if at 17th, if trading down (for a 2nd-rounder), go for C Vlad Namestnikov, the kid has guts and he’s got sweet, sweet hands.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
I’d be happy if the habs can land Puempel
6’1″ is big enough. As long as they pick a potential #1 centre. The Habs haven’t had a #1 centre since Damphousse. Some people will say since Bobby Smith.
Plex would be a dynamite #2. He’s no #1. Neither is Gomez. Nor DD. Ditto Eller, Leblanc, Bournival. #1 centres are not cheap on the UFA or trade market either.
It’s the Habs most glaring need, and they have a few.
No guarantee in the world Phillips can be a 1C over Eller, hasn’t even played the AHL yet. I haven’t read one scouting report saying his window has a good shot at playing that level either, otherwise I’d be on board for him.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
I love the idea of trading down to try to pick up another pick. Namestnikov slipped a little (even though he had a pretty solid season in London). If you can add another 2nd rounder with him it would be a better idea than taking a flier on one of the guys around 17.
While SF isn’t sold on Philips, I am. Although your ‘big center’ theory isn’t all that accurate, he’s 6′ and isn’t that physical. I would like a Philips pick.
6’1″ is better than 5’11″ and he will gain a few pounds.
Tyler Biggs = USA, 6-2, 210, 161 pim,
From USA today.
American Tyler Biggs’ presence in the 2011 NHL draft rankings reaffirms the idea that belligerence is bliss for the NHL scouting community.
MORE…
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/draft/2011-02-01-top-american-draft-prospects_N.htm
Would be a steal in the second round. Maybe like a Lucic. If he’s there might be worth it.
Let the guessing begin…….
He was ranked 15th overall on Bob’s amalgamation of scouts’ lists. I doubt he’ll be around in the second round.
Indeed….
Long as someone other than MTL takes him I’m fine with whatever ranking he gets.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
By the same token I’d say a bruiser that can pot 10 or so goals isn’t a bad 2nd rounder in what’s sounding like a weak class.
Also the Habs have no second rd. pick
When McGuire brought up Biggs name,I thought Button would choke,imagine a bonafide GM in complete and utter shock he couldn’t even hide it.
NorthTOHab
Unfortunately we don’t have a second round pick, so we’d have to take him in the first
I hate to be *that guy* but unless you are hardcore like SeriousFan why would you be excited for the draft? These are all kids whom I have no knowledge of. Just because someone tells me they are the next Gretzky doesn’t make it true – the kid could never see the NHL or be a 4th liner on some other team.
I don’t get why people who don’t watch these players nor follow their progress are excited about the draft. Before the world juniors you saw “PK Subban drafted by the habs” you had no idea why this was any good. AFTER the world juniors? Plan the parade!
So as I see it….a big fat “meh” to today’s festivities. It’s meaningless until I see them play
Worst part about my watching the draft? Having these kids compared to HOFers or current All-Stars. It’s ridiculous to foist that on the 18-year olds and a bit insulting to the Legends they’re saying have miniature clones coming up to replace them.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
By the same token the draft is always a time to hope, and every team in the NHL wants to hope that kids develop into stars. Low first rounders and late rounders always have their upside, and everyone likes to dream about it.
It’s fun, as long as you don’t get up into the Pierre McGuire hyperbole of: “BEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME BEING DRAFTED AT 22, WHAT WAS EVERYONE THINKING!?”, or “THE CANADIENS ARE THE WORST TEAM IN THE NHL, WHY CAN’T I BE THEIR GM AND FIX THEIR TEAM” (Pierre is incapable of speaking in lower case letters, it’s a fact).
You forgot to use the word “MONSTER” at least twice in those statements.
THE CANADIENS DON’T HAVE ENOUGH MONSTERS! I’M A MONSTER FAILURE!
Hahaha
NorthTOHab
And yet Macguire and co will gladly compare them and hype them up.
Remember when he said Taylor Hall was ready for prime time but Seguin wasn’t there yet? Good times.
Because that’s his job, professional cheerleader and propaganda specialist.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
I second that.
NorthTOHab
I know exactly what you mean. I see five Jeff Carters, three Keslers and a Chara going in the first round this year alone.
The worst part about the draft is knowing there’s a 50/50 chance Jacques Martin drives the player selected out of town.
Only players selected since 2005 that JM “drove out of town” are Guimauve and Sergei. That fat, heartless wretch Guimauve put himself out of town and Sergei was about as visible in the playoffs as the Sedins in the SCFs.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
Why the shit do people miss Lattendresse? A non factor that was cut loose
It’s about hope, disappointment, elation, guessing, second guessing, analyzing and best of all being an armchair GM.
Here is the Bodog line for 1st pick.
Nugent-Hopkins -350
Larsson +225
Huberdeau +2500
Landeskog + 2000
Smart money on Nugent-Hopkins, but what if Edmonton goes for the D. +225 is tempting…..
Any thoughts Serious ???
What do you guys think about Tyler Biggs? He seems like another Pacioretty-type. Don’t know about his production though. On NHL.com:
TYLER BIGGS
NORTH AMERICAN SKATER
USA U-18, USHL
FINAL RANK: 22 MIDTERM RANK: 5
POSITION: RIGHT WING SHOOTS: RIGHT
HEIGHT: 6′ 2″ WEIGHT: 210
BORN: APRIL 30, 1993 HOMETOWN: LOVELAND, OH
BORN IN: BINGHAMTON, NY, USA
NHL Central Scouting’s Jack Barzee
“He has that leadership quality … that desire, that passion, that competitiveness. He just never quits. He’s a young player who has taken the role as leader of his team. He does most of their fighting when they have to fight. He’s kind of the guy that when someone starts picking on somebody, he’s standing up for them. I think while wearing the ‘C’ may have taken a little away from his offensive finish, my gut feeling is that I can’t think of anything else but an uphill path for Tyler.”
U.S. Under-18 head coach Ron Rolston
“He’s a big, strong kid and is an extreme character player. He skates well and is physical and tough. He shoots and attacks the net well with or without the puck. He’s certainly someone on our team who’s a physical presence, and he makes room for a lot of our skilled players.”
♪ And we’re livin’ here in Allentown… ♪
He lacks natural scoring ability and his hockey sense has been considered highly questionable. He is much more likely between Colby Armstrong and Travis Moen than say Bobby Ryan and Max Pacioretty.
From Corey Pronman of Puck Prospectus “Overall, he’s all right with the puck, but there are moments where he’ll be decent, and moments where he looks like his hands are made of rock. His hockey IQ is fringe, and doesn’t have the right combination of skills to project as a scorer. Biggs will be a player you throw out there to jet around, bang bodies, score a few here and there and maybe plant in front of the net on a power play, but there’s simply too much wrong in key areas and not enough right in others to supplement that to think he’s anything but a lower-tier prospect. ”
If the issue is scoring, we draft for that in the 1st round in a better talent (You can NOT teach goal scoring) than use later picks on ‘bangers that can probably do the same job. Future Considerations has the same doubt about his scoring ability for future levels, also think he lacks hands and creativity on the ice.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
Seems like a Toronto type player…..maybe last pick of 1st? Seems what someone on NHL thinks.
Like I said would be great in 2nd round.
Thanks SF, so I guess we should stick with Jurco/Jensen/Phillips in the 1st round…
♪ And we’re livin’ here in Allentown… ♪
I was asked what “big trees” we’ve given away (from my post below saying that the Habs have little to deal because the dump players before they grow).
Most of the guys that PG and BD turfed for little or no return are still growing but how about these for example:
1. S Kostitsyn – his 23 goals LED HIS TEAM as did his 50 points (tied). He would’ve been the #3 scorer on the Habs and the #2 goal scorer after Gionta. He’s a valuable player now. We got NOTHING for him.
2. Grabovski – yeah, he’s a jerk blah blah blah but his 58 points and 29 goals last year would have made him the Habs TOP SCORER. We got a 2nd round pick for him. Meh.
3. O’Byrne – a Habs throw-away, he averaged over 20 minutes per game in Colorado. Was used in a lot of situations and finished middle of the pack in +/-
4. D’agostini – his 46 points (21 goals and 25 assists) tied Gionta’s total for the year, and of course are better than Gomez. More goals than Cami and 1 less than Plekanec. Another Habs toss-off.
There are more…you all know the names. I have other stuff to do. But if you think for a minute the Habs are good at developing assets or that the poor development of assets isn’t what holds this team back (you need depth to trade and depth to win a cup), give your head a shake. Habs are f-d by a lack of effectiveness in handling their own developing players.
The SK trade was a terrible move. Although no one here will agree with you. They will come up with any excuse to justify the trade.
Of those listed above, Ryan O’B is the ONLY one I was disappointed to see leave town. I saw him live a few years ago, totally focused and appeared to have great potential. Certainly, he has shown character and integrity.
The Habs front office recognized this and sent him to Colorado where he can continue to grow and develop – his comments today about Montreal say it all. I can’t really comment on D’Agostini – another BC boy – altho scoring in St-Louis strikes me as something akin to bigger-fish-in-smaller-pond …
Gabovski and SK as “big trees” ? No, I don’t see either of them in that light at all. They started out like houses on fire, but missing team flights, pouting and basic adolescent behaviour don’t cut it with me. Talented – yes, at times, but they lacked consistency and, more importantly, character.
To use the ‘ tree ‘ analogy, these guys lifted their legs to piss on it way too often while they were here and I am just fine seeing them gone.
ALWAYS Habs -
D Mex
Matt D’Agostini got a few more goals than we would normally expect this season because St-Louis was ravaged by injuries. He got some 2nd line time and PP time that he won’t see much of in the future. I bet last year’s production is his ceiling.
———————————
Let’s do something like this again: 1) Petr Svoboda 1) Shayne Corson 2) Stephane Richer 3) Patrick Roy
http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/
Where was Sergei in the playoffs for NSH? Nowhere. They discovered his commitment in NSH to be similar to what it was here, initial outburst, than cools as he doesn’t think he has to work hard all the time.
Grabovski got that scoring b/c he has ice time in TOR he wouldn’t get elsewhere. Same reason Dominic Moore’s best career season was in TOR.
O’Byrne was being carried in Colorado by Liles and is a big tree perhaps in comparable height but not of importance. a 3rd-pairing D that is elevated to 1st-pair by puck-movers who take away the burden of all decision-making from him, he started to fade later in the season as well. People decrying the loss of O’Byrne need to seriously re-evaluate when he was ever useful when Markov wasn’t carrying him (sort of like Komisarek, no?).
4. Wouldn’t have had that ice time with St Louis’s lineup being healthy, or on other teams. He has no defensive game and is streaky. Michael Ryder lite.
We sent away the heartless, the weak-willed and the headcases more than anything.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
Give me a so-called “heartless” YOUNG player that scores 21 or 25 times a season over half of our forwards including especially the one who scored 7 goals while cashing a paycheck of over a million dollars per goal.
Habs have made a lot of BAD decisions. Thank goodness they also made some good ones too. It’s just that the teams that win the cup make a lot more good than bad and brother that’s not us.
If our forwards were let off the hook from playing the defensive system MTL works in, their scoring would be higher than it is SD. Pleks could probably go to 75+ points for each season left on his contract.
Grabs was an attitude problem that fits in well with the Loafs and their ego-cases. D’Agostini just never did anything after Koivu was feeding him goals on his initial call-up to MTL. Nerves or inability to work hard defensively, he wasn’t working here.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
blah blah blah blah blah I HATE GOMEZ blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah woof
Thanks for posting my thoughts without me having to type them.
I don’t understand the Grabbo argument. He is only scoring because he gets ice time? Well, yes, I guess.
The fact is he had more points and goals than anyone on the Habs this year and we let him go for nothing.
Sergei is not Mario Lemieux but it’s incorrect to say he disappeared in the playoffs. He had 5 points in ten games. Better than Eller, Desharnais, Pouliot, Moen, etc etc etc … Once again we traded him for NOTHING.
We got a 2nd round pick and a D prospect and the 2nd was then flipped for Lang, not Lang’s fault, or Gainey’s that his tendon got shredded.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
BTW – Dagostini was SIXTEENTH in ICE TIME on the Blues last year.
There goes that theory!!
A lot of guys drop production in their first playoff season. He’s a young player but promising. We put up with Pouliot why? Because he’s still young and his skills are obvious – and he’s done LESS than SK.
Hey not so smartdog, you realize that all teams in the NHL have the same issue right? It so easy to cherry pick a few example. Sergei had huge issues on and off the ice, Grabovski asked for a traded, O’byrne was giving chance after chance and kept blowing it and Dager a good stretch on a crappy team because he got some ice time. But guess what, everyteam in the league has players that perform once traded elsewhere. And BTW, how did any above guys do in the playoffs this year?
And Sergei’s playoff numbers were? When Sergei’s your high scorer your team’s going to have a lot of problems.
Grabovski – Best player on the Leafs. When was the last time they made the playoffs again?
O’Byrne – 20 minutes on a team that had to trade away one of the most promising young power forwards in the league for an underachieving Erik Johnson. Also didn’t make the playoffs.
D’Agostini – Again, on a team with injury woes to its best forwards, Dags got more icetime than he would on a lot of other teams. Missed the playoffs (along with his Halakness).
Really, all teams that we’re better than, with players getting a lot more icetime than they would on teams that are too busy winning games. Nobody in their right minds would consider any of these players a ‘big tree’ in the NHL.
As far as developing players, we’ve got Price, PK, Pacioretty, Weber, and White playing on our squad and Palushaj (got from that dynamo D’Agostini) and Nash in the AHL. Leblanc, Tinordi, and Gallagher are all likely to be at the World Juniors this year (a tournament that is only getting more competitive as the years go by). All of whom I prefer to the players you listed.
Are you REALLY saying that all those goals by these guys are about ICE TIME?
Give me a break. So I guess if Pyatt had more ice time he’d pot 20! LOL Or Moen? Or Gomez? Oh wait a minute… two of these guys HAD LOTS of ice time.
Goals are had to come by in the NHL. 20 goals isn’t some happy accident. It takes hard work and skill. These guys are looking like strong young players, even if you need to believe they are not.
Gomez’s numbers were 1 assist away from Sergei’s in the playoffs (Gomer had 4 assists in 7 games, Sergei had 5 in 12). The other players’ teams didn’t even make the playoffs. So yeah, I’d say that increased ice time, and power play time, is a big factor in how these guys got their numbers.
Being the best player on a bad team isn’t anything to point to. Of course I’d like some more production out of our 3rd/4th lines, but those guys weren’t producing there and I have no reason to believe this season would have been any different. Again, there are no ‘big trees’ in the list you’ve provided.
You’re saying that Gomez (a veteran 1st line center with a 7 million dollar paycheck) is near in points in the playoffs to SK so SK sucks? LOL
Sergei was playing in his first full season – he’s a young player. You can’t dismiss his season because he didn’t light it up in his first real playoffs. Ridiculous.
the only one i would agree with is SK…team could have tried harder working with him…who knows.
Two Montreal Coaches couldn’t deal with SK.
NorthTOHab
Your examples only underscore how weak your argument is.
Three of the four you mentioned played for teams that did not make the playoffs. That should tell you something about them playing leading roles on their teams. These are bad teams and part of the reason they are bad is that they have players of this caliber in important roles.
The forth player disappeared in the playoffs. I still would have liked to get more for him though, I think that’s a legitimate point. The Boyd situation is unfortunate, hardly a disaster, but unfortunate.
Bottom line, there isn’t a single player on your list that is good enough to secure a similar role on this team.
In the roles they would get here, they weren’t well suited. It’s that simple.
So, Habs management sucks so bad that the team is going nowhere fast,eh? I’m giving my head a shake reading your posts. SK did not fit in with a 1st year coach. 1st year coaches win the day over prima donnas that disappear in the playoffs. Grabo is plying his trade on a loser team that hasn’t made the playoffs since the lockout, so he’s getting TOI he doesn’t merit. O’Byrne never did put it together in Montreal and the Habs got a prospect for him. D’Agostini was a 1 dimensional slow skater with some hands.
I think the Habs are handling Subban very well, like they have with White, Weber, and Price. Not all players fit well when it comes to the philosophy of the team they belong to.
The Habs have a fast-skating defense-first type of team that excels on special teams. That requires their players to have a strong work ethic. D’Agostini and SK don’t have that.
SK74 – always thought he had a huge upside to go with that huge ego. He is a solid player. Was a no show this year in the playoffs.
I’m looking for Grab’s postseason stats for his last 3 years oin TO – I can’t find them. This past season the other big name center in TO were Bozak and Brent. . . Headcase and I’m glad he is gone.
O’Byrne – I never viewed him as a shut down DMan – yea he can be a respectable 5th or 6ht guy and certainly with size but he’s not an asset that is really needed. The Avs can keep his 10 points.
D’ags – he was a horriffic minus play in Montreal – he did score goals this year while not looking terrible so who knows…
Wouldn’t mind seeing the Habs pick Mark McNeill, Boone Jenner, or Tyler Biggs if he’s available in the 17th spot. They all have size, Biggs has toughness, at the junior level anyway. Habs need a strong young tough lad to protect their stars, it’s a fact that Gauthier has to realize considering what happened in Boston. Hope the hell they don’t just pick the best available player at any position as he was quoted as saying. When you know your weakness, address the need and we need tougher players to win in this league. With the Ghost at the helm…who in hell knows ! If they haven’t figured this out by now, they never will. We’ll know shortly if they do.
Biggs can’t score though and his hockey sense is maybe, maybe average. Better choices, in the 1st round you’re looking for Top-6 Forwards and Biggs is a reach for that ceiling from what I’ve read.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
I do not see the sense in addressing the “tough guy to protect star players” need in the first round of the draft. Isn’t the first round for finding star players? Thats why there are several other rounds…..
Repost: ANyone know what the plan is for Jeff Halpern – resign?
Doubt there is an actual plan for a player like Halpern yet with more important players taking priority, plus with the draft. I like Halpy and he was good for us both in play and value for dollar.
Thing is about players like this (lower echelon, past their prime, 1 or 2 specific complementary skills) is that they can he had/signed for under 1mil anytime late in the summer, and there’s usually a few of them to choose from.
- Honestly yours
Please please please do not draft Grimaldi
Gonna draft Grimaldi so Gio has someone to look down on!
Good article in La Presse on head injuries:
http://tinyurl.com/68z5lat
To summarize:
The NHL is not interested in addressing the problem.
All they have done is tried to sweep the problem under a rug.
Gauthier and, especially, Geoff Molson have given up trying to reform the league, letting Neanderthals like Brian Burke (“If people don’t like physical hockey they can go to Europe”).
The only change to the rules is that now all hits to the head are illegal, however the penalty is reduced to a minor rather than a 5 minute major. That’s right/ The NHLs bold action on hits to the head is to put them on a par with holding the stick or shooting the puck over the boards.
Good news is one of those cheap shot headhunters is now playing in the western conference instead of the East.
When Brenden Shanahan made his big announcement John Shannon said I have heard all this before from Colin Campbell,new guy,new suit,same old message.
NorthTOHab
every once in a while something happens in the NHL that pleases me.
Mike Richards – the twit, loser, puke face – got what he deserved yesterday.
Good for Philadelphia!! I hate the Flyers a little less today.
Richards has never won a Cup and he acted as though hes got the seniority of a 20 year veteran, sure Hall Of Famer,
when he dissed Subban, it was so obvious that he was disrespecting Subban because of the color of his skin.
I will state today what I have stated at least 10 times on this site:
before Subban ends his career he will be known as one of the greater athletes of his time.
People will remember Subban 50 years from now.
Richards, now that his legacy as a Flyers captain has been cut so short, will be a nobody.
You are a classless PUKE Mike Richards – and I hope Subban absolutely crushes you with an open ice hit next season.
I hope Subban drops the gloves right after that crushing hit, and teaches you that your racist garbage has no place in our world.
Lets see how brave you are playing in LA??
Habs hockey is “smart” hockey – we play 5 man defence, not just 2 – we move up the ice as a 5 man unit, we back check with 5.
Got what he deserved? Moved from crime-ridden Philadelphia to sunny LA?
Not a bad move.
Him and Charlie….
But seriously, LA is now a force to be reckoned with. I would put them almost as a good bet to win the conference.
I would try to get them as a future pick for Stanley Cup finalists. Probably 15 to 1….
Charlie…..Sheen? or Manson?
Habs hockey is “smart” hockey – we play 5 man defence, not just 2 – we move up the ice as a 5 man unit, we back check with 5.
Sheen. Sorry
used to watch Panther games while travelling to florida during christmas break.
buy the local florida daily for $1, and you get a free ticket to the panthers. (nice job Bettman!)
something not quite right about going to a hockey game in december wearing shorts and sandals.
Habs hockey is “smart” hockey – we play 5 man defence, not just 2 – we move up the ice as a 5 man unit, we back check with 5.
Well said Eddie O!
I agree 100% …..Go Habs Go!
Ed i concur, somehow I am not so sure Richards partying ways will be curbed by the LA lifestyle. One thing i will say, Richards can play really good hockey. But his attitude etc… was garbage. Philly fans loved Richards and he fit that model of a team, I don’t think he plays the same way for other teams as he does for Philly. I think it looks good on Richards that he was blindsided by this. Him and Carter thought they owned that town the same way Clarke and Leach did in the 70′s he seemed to forget those boys brought home a couple of cups to philly.
if richards was traded to Montreal would you still feel the same….think about that.
Given his outward despisement of PK, and PK’s future on this team do you think we would have been going after him? The guy can play, but I think his character would be very tough fit on our team. I think Carter would have fit in okay.
As I said yesterday, why do the panic signing of Bryz AND blow up the team? If you are desperate for a goalie because its the “final piece of the puzzle” (Ed Snider), then you don’t trade Richards and Carter.
On the other hand if you decide to trade Carter and Richards for prospects, because they’re party animals or whatever, then there’s no hurry to sign Bryz. You aren’t going to challenge right away so why not wait and see how Bobrovsky does?
Philly was awful in the 2nd half of the season and got dismantled in the playoffs. Sorta like when the Habs got swept by Boston a few years back. Gainey saw that the dressing room was broken, got rid of everyone and signed character guys. Richards is good, but he was feuding with the coach and reporters and probably Pronger. You couldn’t just take the C away from him and keep him on your team, so he was traded.
Carter is good regular season player but is a no-show in the playoffs, getting rid of him isn’t going to hur them that much.
Look at Boston’s roster. Are they really that much better than Philly? On paper, philly looks better, now they have a top 10 goalie. So they’re obviously trying to finally get rid of that scoring depth and spend it on a goalie.
It’s a balsy move, but it just might work.
Okay, have to grab sleep after getting back from a graveyard shift so I can attend the Tweetup at Kilgours in Toronto for Draft night, I’ll tweet a few thoughts from there if I can but I’m going to list my Top 4 for at 17th and my Top 4 if the Habs trade down to get an extra pick, here goes, as always I am advocating risk-reward, with favourability towards natural scoring talent and/or a power game.
At 17th overall:
C Mark McNeill of the WHL Prince Albert Raiders: PF type with two-way game and already good physical power. Concern is his Offensive upside may be limited and physical maturity means he’s looking good pushing around Juniors, but they’ll start pushing back soon. Not quick off the blocks with his skating either.
C Mark Scheifele of the OHL Barrie Colts: Went over PPG with the worst team in the entire OHL this season, playmaking centre who protects the puck well and can take it through the dirty areas, good shot but he doesn’t use it enough, needs to get stronger physically and improve skating.
RW Nicklas Jensen of the OHL Oshawa Generals: Big winger with a power game potential, in his first season on NA ice he kept pace with his draft-eligible teammates Lessio and Jenner and displayed an excellent shot and an ability to protect the puck well and can likely improve after having adapted to the smaller ice surface. Needs to improve his skating and intensity.
LW Matthew Puempel of the OHL Peterborough Petes: A 6’1″ sniper with potentially the best natural scoring talent outside of the “Big 8″ of this draft. He goes to the net for the rebound opportunities and can be very creative with the puck, seems to pick up his skating especially when he sees an offensive chance. Issues revolve around his consistency and defensive game.
If MTL trades down for a 2nd and is choosing later in the round (20s):
RW Tomas Jurco of the QMJHL Saint John Sea Dogs: The crafty stick-handling magician of the Q, Jurco has the puck on a string and can do things that make you think he watches Kovalev’s DVD on a daily basis. Shifty skater with agility and good lateral movement, can stickhandle his way through defenders as necessary. Work in progress defensively and is a streaky player, but if MTL wants potential game-breaking talent…
RW Dmitri Jaskin: The Czech winger plays a power game mixed with soft hands to handle the puck while packing both hard wrist and slap shots that are quite accurate. Doesn’t mind the dirty areas of the ice and very strong on the puck, even with defenders draped on him he can keep moving with a very high compete level in his game. Issue revolves around his weak skating with below average speed and serious acceleration issues. He also suffererd a knee injury this season as well so no help to him there.
C Vladimir Namestnikov of the OHL London Knights: A shifty skater with speed to match, high-end vision and creativity that lets him pull out a bag of tricks to outmanuver the opposition. Pass-first player, but he can shoot the puck when he wants to and hit the target. He can see plays developing before most and manage pinpoint passes to hit his intended targets and his shot release is very quick and doesn’t mind taking the puck straight up the ice. Issue revolves around his weighing 160 at 6′ so he’s still easily moved off the puck and will need to gain strength, his defensive game is also a work in progress.
LW/C JT Miller: Miller is another potential power forward with a two-way game, good skating and balance and is very willing to pay the price to bring the puck to the net for the play to happen. Possesses a quick shot and is handy at fishing for the loose pucks around the net. Some good passing ability and he’s already physically ready for higher levels of competition, tends to bull around anyone he plays against. Some concerns exist about his hockey sense and consistency as he didn’t show his true potential for much of the year except his breakout performance with the US Under-18 team when he led them in scoring to their Gold Medal win.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
Lots of talk Timmis is looking to grab Tyler Biggs
Please God, NOOOOOOOO.
Kid’s got the same hockey sense as a bag of hammers.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
Please, baby Jesus, say it isn’t so.
Or is that just the idle chatter of one Pierre Mcguire.
Just stupid Pierre McGuire putting that rumor out there and we all know PG & Co. listen to McGuire and do the opposite.
NorthTOHab
Now that Markov and Gill are signed, PG has to find a way to unload Hamrlik and Spacek, no ifs and buts.
Unloading Hamrlik will be pretty easy. They just have to not give him a new contract.
During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.
Yeah people are lining up!
“Beliveau. He was a captain.”
Maurice Richard http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=4550
Jean Beliveau http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=297
Henri Richard http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=4547
>>>Great captains<<<
My wish for once in the draft is to make a big splash!
We need a Mike Richards or a Jeff Carter so if we can sing Weber and Gorges, before the draft, let’s make a blockbuster deal Gauthier. Sign Weber and Gorges toute de suite before the draft.
We then trade Spacek, Weber, and yes even a Gorges with a Gionta or Cammy for Richards or Carter and have extra money to sign Wiz or obtain Iginla.
A power skilled forward and physical DMan we have always needed on this club from seasons ago to make our club a contender in the East.
Let’s do it Pierre!
“We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “
This is not NHL 11, dude.
Be a little practical, here.
Not getting an impact player of that caliber unless the following are included:
Eller
Patches
Subban
Price
Tinordi
To make that big splash trade you need something of value to give away. We don’t have it. That’s why it won’t happen. And why don’t we have it? Because we trade all our big trees while they’re still saplings. Short-sighted management. It’s been the Habs way for the last almost two decades.
Im guessing you’re a “cup is half empty” kind of guy. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Once a Habs fan Always a Habs fan! GO HABS GO!
he sounds realistic to me, not negative. One big tree let go in the last five years is O’Byrne. In fact, in the last ten years the Habs have been stocking other teams’ defence corp with regularity. I personally think that the Gainey era onwards has benefited from more wisdom than usual, but at the same time there is a head coach who has very little feel for and patience with young players. Again, O’Byrne is witness to that. So I do fear that there is always the risk of felling yet another big tree. With patience, the solution for the Habs’ success will be seen in their young players. The forest of talent must be nurtured!
Thanks. Yeah, I think it’s realistic. What am I supposed to say… hey, we’re not the New York Islanders YAY!!!
You can blame PG for not making some better/bigger deals (and I do) but he’s got a pretty meek situation to deal with. If he could clean things up by somehow getting rid of Gomez and even Spacek that would open up some cap room at least. And cap room is another area where this team has been strategically dumb. Gainey spent every damn penny and we know that the teams that get the best of strategic salary dumps are the ones that have the cap space to take on the weight of a good player who comes with a big salary. We’re not in play for most of those. Cap space is a strategic asset when it comes to trades. A large home-grown base of budding NHLers is a strategic asset. We don’t have either.
i never questioned whether or not he was being realistic, just suggesting that there are many different ways to look at a situation. Both Negative (realistic) and positive (also realistic)
Once a Habs fan Always a Habs fan! GO HABS GO!
Name one ‘big tree’ we’ve traded away in the past 5 years.
Should we give away Subban, Patches, Eller or Price? No we shouldn’t. PHI was upset with their core pieces so they moved them out. Do we hate our core young guns? No, they’re on the path to becoming better.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
Defeatist thinking. Time to rob somebody the way Sam Pollack used to.
“I shall always remember Beliveau. Now *there* was a captain.”
To be entirely honest, Sam Pollock created the modern GM role. GM’s aren’t so easily fleeced (unless you’re from Philadelphia apparently).
Did Koivu run over your dog or something?
And Beliveau despite his magnificence could not have dragged any of the teams Koivu was saddled with to the Cup, get over yourself and whatever deep-seated ethnocentrism you’re packing.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
The NHL isn’t a bath tub. The Habs have a solid core and need a couple more parts to get to the next level. Trading players away for other team’s problems to show the fan base that management is doing something is short-sighted.
If you think we can give up multiple core players for Richards or Carter and THEN give away a king’s ransom for an aging Iginla and be on the road to the SC, you’re off your rocker.
At least you’re no longer advocating giving PK Subban away from a draft pick or saying he belongs in the AHL though.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
Couple things…
I think Philly got weaker, not stronger short term, but better long term.
And Jeff Halpern – he’s a UFA? Is he coming back I wonder?
B$TCH OF THE DAY:
I just looked over the Philly deal.
Wow – PHILLY DID GOOD!! With the picks and young players, these guys are set for YEARS. Imagine being able to trade your two top scorers (both signed to long term reasonable contracts which itself is a bonus) because your developing players were THAT GOOD. The Habs can only dream of this. Of course if they kept some of their developing players they might be in that situation.
Homlgren saw a problem and went out of the box to find the best solution – and got it. PG, do you see our problem? It’s called SCORING. Oh – and TOUGHNESS. Yeah, two problems that have been around for years. If you want a third problem – bad contracts. Ship Gomez out of town and all will be forgiven. Show that you’re a GM with stones (tofu balls don’t count).
The East just got tougher while we signed an injury-prone 32-year-old defenceman to an expensive 3-year contract. Yeah, we made the news alright… but our news is much more dubious.
LOL FUNNY: Mike Richards is always good for a laugh though. He said he never would have signed his big contract if he knew he was going to be traded. One word Mike: NTC!!!!! LOL That Mike Richards is smart like dumptruck. And it’s no surprise to me that the team was glad to cash him in for some younger guys who aren’t first class a-holes.
Markov’s deal isn’t expensive. As for the Philly deals, they are goo deals value wise, but why does Philly do these, but the time the 8th pick and Schenn are impact players, Ilya is going to be getting old, Pronger and Timonen also.
Well said Smart Dog about the Markov deal. Everyone is excited about the deal but we’re going to suffer for it down the road as we suffered the Gomez signing.
“We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “
You dipstick, we didn’t sign Gomez to that deal. We traded (and likely he was the price of admission for Gionta and Cammalleri) for him. It was a calculated risk that paid off with the other signings we made, and has been disappointing in Gomez’s regard.
Of course, I don’t expect you to bother admitting it, being a dipstick and all.
There’s a phrase we use in my other language besides English, you are a big frosh a la merde!
“We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “
Don’t know what you’re smoking, but it’s gotta be goooood.
Trade away two young, core forwards for prospects (not impressed with Schenn or Voracek) and picks (in what’s supposed to be a weak draft for high end picks).
This team went to the Stanley Cup finals a couple of years ago and they want to blow it up from the inside out. It’s ridiculous.
On the other hand our news is not dubious. Markov is an elite defenseman and likely signed below his market price (I would have preferred two years, but I can live with three, especially if he stays healthy for the season, then we’ve got two more years at a bargain price). If he does get injured then it’s time to think about reloading for the next few years, we can’t afford to trade our cupboards bare again for a Cup run that doesn’t involve Markov because he is (whether you want to believe it) the core of this franchise right now.
the pronger camp vs the richards/carter camp…dressing room needed big shakeup..straight forward to me.
And Pronger might have 2-3 years left. The ‘young talent’ that Philly will get from these deals will likely round into form (if they do at all) when Pronger starts to get too old and has to retire.
I like Giroux a lot, is he ready to shoulder the load on a Cup run? I find it highly unlikely. Philly was ridiculous deep at C with Briere, Carter, and Richards. Not so much anymore. Everyone says ‘get deep at center and you’ll win games’, Philly just threw that axiom out the window for a goalie who hasn’t accomplished anything.
i like what philly did from a cap point of view. they are a better team long term, younger and cheaper. i don’t think there was much down on the farm so they ended up with some pics that they can develop. they also moved some problem children not easy to do in cap world. The team becomes Pronger’s baby now and he will be the captain for sure. I hate philly but admire holmgrens ballsy attitude.
Andrei Markov is going to need some help from Dr. Mulder removing these knives Habs fans keep sticking in his back.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
“Andrei Markov is going to need some help from Dr. Mulder ”
Just for THAT you should be banned!!!
SD, if Karma, Jinxes and all that really meant anything, Chara and Marchand wouldn’t have lifted a Cup.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
sd…markov is priced just about right …not quite up there with the lidstroms. i think he is actually a bit underpaid. still would you like to see him on another team. the 29 other teams would pay him the same or maybe more. i would prefer to see him in ch not some other bush team.
And, for the record, I don’t want Hammer back, though I have appreciated him during his time here and respect him, we need to give his ice time to someone younger. Unless Spacek is moved, then I would be good with it. Even then though, Hammer at anything more than 2.5 or so, will be a bummer
Way 2 much $$$$$$$
I likw Markov, but I don’t like this deal.
Agreed, love Markov, but way too much $$$$ for a guy whose been injured the past few seasons.
“We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “
I too agree. 4 for one with a bonus of another mil for playing x amount of games would have been more to my liking but oh well. I guess they’re confident his knee is okay this time……………. knock on wood, cross my fingers, penny in the fountain, rub a rabbit’s foot, kick any black cats in my path……….
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
Hey, y’know what? Here’s a theory:
We all know that the season’s a joke. All you have to do is finish in the top-eight, and then it’s anyone’s game. Honestly, there’s so much parity, that where you finish up means nothing.
Which means this:
We have a really great room. Very good understanding, cohesion, and a good mix of guys.
We can start the season pretty much as is, do as well as we did last year, hopefully better due to fewer injuries, and bring up some youngsters along the way.
Then… just before the trade deadline, or possibly earlier with a team on the fringe, trade for that big front-man. THEN we’ll be in a good position.
Wouldn’t we look silly trading good players early in the season for a top-six that breaks both of his legs and gets a level-9 concussion in November.
—Hope Springs Eternal—
Totally agree with you. Nothing blockbuster is going to happen over the next week or so. If we dont sign wiz then maybe another offensive dman and we can look forward to perhaps a 3rd or 4th line forward to compliment White and Moen. Habs have been on the right track the past two seasons, so why pull that apart with trades and bringing in new expensive players that will make current players feel like their job is on the block. Just a little fine tuning and we’re good to go!
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro-
Agreed – thumbs up!
It’s a nice idea. But it’s what I like to call WRONG.
The Habs don’t have enough depth to give anything much back in a trade so won’t be able to pick anything very significant up. Most of our young developing players have been traded before they’ve had time to mature. Our cupboard is empty thanks to PG and BG. Philly just showed what a good development system and a patient and smart GM can do. We’re not in that position.
If we had a “really great room” when we were up 2-0 on the Brunes we would have finished them off.
If we had a great room somebody would have attacked Chara when he almost killed Pacioretty.
“I shall always remember Beliveau. Now *there* was a captain.”
And who went after Cooke when he cheap shot-ted Markov late, blowing his knee out? Soft soft soft.
“I shall always remember Beliveau. Now *there* was a captain.”
Who went after Cooke when he basically ended Marc Savard’s Career? Man those Boston Bruins are a bunch of wimps. Or who targeted Raffi Torres when he went after Horton? I tell you those guys in Boston are just gutless and hate each other.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2LlShM0Bt0
There you go. Yes it was the next game, but at least they did something about it.
Thornton IS THE MAN. A team player. Period. Sacrifices for the TEAM.
And Chara would have likely almost killed the guy who attacked him.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
SF09 on Twitter
So now that Andrei is under contract I see HIO managed to find a picture of Markov in a habs jersey! Well done boys, thought maybe we would see a picture of Emelin with Markov in Russian hats in a Siberian snow storm.
This deal has Markov earning what was the 15th highest salary last year. Behind such legends as Komisarek, Redden, Phaneuf, Boyle, Jovanovski, and Visnovsky. Those ahead of him also include several players who have had serious injury problems: including Pronger and Rafalski.
It has him earning the 11th highest cap hit, behind many of the aforementioned, and the complete package known as Brian Campbell.
Furthermore, his deal is tied, with two others, for the shortest term among the top 25 paid defenceman in the league, not counting Lidstrom’s one year deal for last year.
And he’s the forth youngest among both groups behind only Keith, Bouwmeester and Phaneuf.
So, those who think him and Meehan gave nothing in terms of salary and term are doing a hard core case of Habs fan navel gazing. Especially in the context of the cap increase.
Sure I had hoped he would sign for 1 – .5 mill less, but I also thought he’d have to get 4 years at that sort of salary. Bottom line is, I bet more than 20 GM’s in the league would happily put ink to paper on this deal, if given the opportunity.
He may not be in Bourque, Pronger, Lidstrom or Neidermeyer’s league, but he’s pretty damn close and is not being paid what they have commanded, relatively, during their careers.
Good Post twocents, agreed.
Every off season, every GM in the league has to make decisions, many of which will appear to be a gamble or others which appear to look like the safe route etc…
I have no issue with PG giving this contract to Markov, when healthy he qb’s our pp beautifully, he makes great 1st passes out of zone getting players like cammy, gionta, plex flying. There is no part of his skill which is weak. No he is not a thumper, but he is very smart. Given how it seemed he was rushed back the last time with his injury, I am sure the doctors have watched his rehab this time and had long talks with PG. I have complete confidence in watching him have a great year. Add that to a healthy stronger Max Pac and Gorges, well I think our team is already alot stronger than the one that played the 2nd half of last year.
If PG can add another piece or two (in the forward dept.) I am really looking forward to this coming season.
The Flyers struggled in the play-offs due to bad goaltending. What did they do, they traded thier top two forwards. Now they have a good goalie but may not make the play-offs. What good is that?
The East has gotten weaker. The Capitals are a one line team with average defence and goaltending. The Penguins are full of question marks. Tampa Bay will be strong but are not a dominating team. Buffalo lacks finish. Boston struggled against a injury-filled Montreal team.
Now if the Canadiens sign Gorges, Wisniewski and a forward via free trade (and keep Kirk Muller for another year) we can plan the Stanley Cup parade. Who can stop us in the West, Vancouver? San Jose?
“It’s too much for one guy to shoulder. For us, we’re going to do it as a group. It’s about sharing that responsibility win or lose.” – Mike Cammalleri
Philly had a serious late-season meltdown due to a split in the locker-room, apparently, between “I’m a Vicious Dick” Pronger and “I’m a Sanctimonious Prick” Richards.
We see whose camp won.
Oh, and San Jose will only stop themselves. As they always do. It’s the curse of Chokin’ Joe!
—Hope Springs Eternal—
I think we can win the East but 5-6 other teams have the chance as well. I have to disagree about the Flyers. They are not much weaker offensively now. They still have their best two scorers in Giroux and Briere + Versteeg, van Riemsdyk, Hartnell, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn and maybe also Leino and or Zherdev. That´s three pretty good lines.
The only team that stood our way in the playoffs was Boston, Washinton (done that) Pittsburgh (beat them in full line up) Philly (no leighton
no Pronger) Rangers (almost a sweep in reg season) Buffalo (injured) Tampa was the other team that would have made the series interesting.
So going with the same line up but Markov, Gorges, and Max included is better than Savard included in the Boston lineup.
“Responding to the media , or playing to the media, or listening to the fans is the quickest way to start losing” – Sam Pollock
If the offence remains the same, the habs will be the same fighting for a playoff spot come march. as for markov he’s one good hit away from a career ending injury. great player, too big of a gamble, could be a big mistake considering all the young defencemen coming into the system anyway I hope everything turns out great for him and the team.
Every player is one good hit away from a career ending injury. Don’t be silly.
Yeah ask Crosby
I think it took him 2. Just saying..
i second that
Thoughts on trading Wiz’s negotiating rights to Detroit for 2nd round pick? If its a deep draft its worth a lot and I know Detroit is desperate to sign someone to play with Lidstrom. Plus it ensures Wiz goes out West and doesnt sign with the Bruins.
Then maybe package 1st rnd + 2nd rnd + Decent prospect for higher pick to nab Courtier or Zidenjabad?
Maybe Colorado would be willing to trade their #11 pick, its there 2nd pick in the 1st round and it’s possible either one of those guys lasts until #11.
MaxPac will raise 2 Stanley Cups in his career to show Chara that his is worth nothing.
If PG does not plan on signing Wiz, then getting anything for him is a good deal.
As the Gman says, if we arent’ signing him ourselves, then anything is better than nuttin.
Det isn’t stupid, they know Wiz is going to test the market to get the best offer, they know they might have an inside track with him being from there, no need to give up a 2nd pick. Only way us getting a second is if we trade down, which I wouldn’t mind.
Maybe they’d do it for 3rd rnd pick? I figure moving up from #17 to #11 wouldn’t be that hard so we might be able to swing it with 1st + 3rd but all depends on who Colorado is trying to select of course..
Although trading down from 24th to 17th would probably be fine with me. I’d like to grab Courtier/Zidenjabad but after that no one speaks to me as NEED to get. So trade down and pick up another pick seems smart. Especially if a good D prospect comes up at #17 since we’re stacked and Wings need more of them, we could pull that.
MaxPac will raise 2 Stanley Cups in his career to show Chara that his is worth nothing.
dring dring…
Columbus GM : Hello
PG: Hello whoever you are, Thanks for getting Carter.
Columbus: Thanks????
PG: Ok Carter is a scorer and nash is a scorer, who is going to pass them the puck ????
Columbus GM: Oh crap…..
PG: Let’s talk Pleks
Columbus: who ?
PG: a guy who can pass the puck to Nash……
Is it too early to dream ?????
Why do you want to trade Plecs?
and what is the returning piece?
to get Carter, they don’t need Carter they need a playmaker, unless you can unload Gomez + players. Columbus needs to win, so draft picks won’t cut it.
They Flyers will not get any better with this trade, the Canadiens must act NOW not wait for the future….They are very close…
They are not going to trade Carter for Pleck after just trading for him. Not even talking about value wise, but the NHL doesn’t work that way. If the Jackets do that trade, their GM will never find another trade partner. Philly traded those guy out West for a reason.
Okay, I didn’t know that was your leaning. Big center would be great! However, I have said before, I don’t think the strength of our dressing room cohesivness can be overstated. Plex out and Carter in could be a dangerous move.
Not sure if serious, trade Pleck, maybe you meant Gomez?
You have to give them something of value, see above.
Why do I get the feeling that Weber is spending his last day as a Hab today?
Another example on how size isn’t as important as it use to be, Flyers decide to go with Danny Briere (5’10) and Claude Giroux(5’11) down middle, as opposed to Carter (6’3) and Richards (5’11 but plays big).
JVR better be ready for an important role. He certainly hasn’t looked it for the last few years.
No doubt that Giroux and VanRiemsdyk had their coming out party and looked good last year. But how much was that a result of teams concentrating on Richards and Carters lines thus freeing up space for these youngsters. Philly seems to have lots of good forwards still even with Carter/Richards gone, but the identity of the squad was through those 2.
I can’t see these trades making philly stronger for 2 years at least. As for the acquisition of Ilya B., wow, that is a pile of money and term for a guy who hasn’t carried any team in the playoffs recently.
Nice to see the “genius” Holmgren give 2 players huge money and term only to change his mind a short time later. Smacks of complete desperation. Love it.
It is a huge move, I am not sure if i think it is desperation or proper realization. Buddy of mine has some good connections into that Philly dressing room and I heard some nightmares of behaviour issues with Carter/Richards off ice. Pronger practically hated Richards, huge power struggle. So in that regard Holmgren is cleaning up the dressing room. But, in reality these were 2 highly effective players who were capable of being game changers when they wanted to.
But the contract to Ilya to me is ridiculous, this guy was on waivers 2 years ago, now I think he may be highest paid goalie in league, not sure how it compares to Roberto@*Luongo (sorry something in my throat had me choking)
Ya, I guess Richards was disrespecting the Vets on the team, how ironic, rumors were they partied too much, and Carter got along well with Hartnell’s wife lol.
No doubt Ed Snyder stuck his nose where it didn’t belong.
“Get me a goalie… I don’t care what it costs.”
Holmgrem is playing his job this year….
I love the deal. Glad to see Markov back. I was dreaming of him last year leading us past the ECF, I think we have an ever better shot this year now that some rookies are coming into their own like MaxPac, Subban, and DD. Let’s not forget we have a fantastic goalie. Can anyone doubt if MaxPac wasn’t nearly killed and Hamrlik had been replaced by Markov we would have been in the SCF? We already came within 1 OT goal to beating the Stanely Cup Champs.
MaxPac will raise 2 Stanley Cups in his career to show Chara that his is worth nothing.
INFO
I am working on getting 100 HIO Fan SUMMIT tickets for the game against Boston Sat. Oct. 29. Stay tuned .
Ian – The Habs play the Bruins on the Thursday in Boston as part of a home and away tilt.
With all the Bruin hate on this site, there could be a Gazette HI/O meltdown that week!!!
Road trip summit? Trip to Boston on Thurs, Fri in Mtl, Sat game against Boston. Would be epic…
MaxPac will raise 2 Stanley Cups in his career to show Chara that his is worth nothing.
That would be incredible arya13, tix for mtl next year in boston will be hard to come by i am sure, how many of us would come back bruised though is the question.
I think we may have to pull a non-Gainey and select all the biggest Habs fans we can find to send to Boston. Anyone under the height of Moen will not be allowed to attend (unless you have a nice baseball shiner from Hockey then…)
MaxPac will raise 2 Stanley Cups in his career to show Chara that his is worth nothing.
Count me in for two, Ian!
Ian, this will be my first trip to “The Summit” I will make sure I can attend be it Oct. or Nov. Thanks Ian. 2 tix for me please.
Talk about a risk. Here is a player who is almost 35, and has played only 52 games in two seasons, and we give him almost 6 mil year FOR THREE FRACKING YEARS?
I know Markov is a legit all star dman, but they paid too much with his age and history of long term injury.
Markov is backing up Price this year?!?
you didn’t know?
well, maybe they’ll be less a chance of injury lol!
and will do just a well as Auld
goalie?
Habs fan…Nuff said
Markov is 32 and turning 33 in 6 months. He is equally close to being 30 than he is to being 35.
How old was the Norris trophy winner again this year?
3 years is longer than I would have liked.
Although in 3 years he will only be the age you claim he is almost now.
33 in December. Many players go through the “injury bug” and return just fine.
He will be 35 when his contract expires in 3 years.
The Daily Hab-it piece (Arpon Basu) is a good read but there is no way that Andrei Markov is as good as the other Dmen (Lidstrom, Niedermayer, Bourque and Pronger) that were mentioned in the article. He’s very good when healthy, but not quite in their class.
To be fair, Basu qualified the point himself.
TSN’s top 60 picks.
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=44969
A look at today’s entry draft candidates.
http://www.thescoutingreport.org/tsr-2011-top-100-skaters-125/
Kings make huge splash.
http://ht.ly/5peQK
The view from Philly.
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/
I love seeing the panic in Philly’s fans. Even if they do end up being a powerhouse, I’ll always remember that most of them were crying over these losses. Not the smartest fans…
MaxPac will raise 2 Stanley Cups in his career to show Chara that his is worth nothing.
Puck Daddy’s take on things.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/The-bitter-stunning-end-of-Richards-Carter-in-?urn=nhl-wp7871
Dobber’s take on yesterday’s trades.
http://www.dobberhockey.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3753:upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone&catid=19:nhl-deals&Itemid=117
Flyers change course.
Were there no thoughts of giving Vokoun 3 years at $5.6M? It might have worked out a lot better.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/41004-Campbell-Flyers-change-philosophy-Kings-load-up-at-center.html
They have been MIKE MILBURY’D
A shoe to the Head?
In 2009, a process of elimination helped narrow the field down to four possible choices when it came to the Habs 1st round pick. That was a little tougher to do last year, especially seeing that we didn’t know that the Habs would trade up to draft 22nd. Everyone wanted the Habs to select Louis Leblanc in 2009, but Peter Holland, Chris Kreider and Jacob Josefson were other fall back candidates. The emphasis on puck moving defensemen (de Haan, Ellis and Leddy) allowed players such as Leblanc and Kreider to be available when the Habs selected in the 18th spot. The Habs went with the safer pick who also just happened to be French-Canadien. Montreal is drafting in the same basic order this year so it should be interesting to see who is realistically available.
The exact draft order of players chosen is not really important, it’s more a question of who will be available when we select 17th. Likewise, we really don’t care what happens after we make our 1st round selection. There are eight consensus picks who should go in the top ten. They are (alphabetically): Sean Couturier, Doug Hamilton, Jonathan Huberdeau, Gabriel Landeskog, Adam Larsson, Ryan Murphy, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Ryan Strome. Good defensive prospects are at a premium these days which means that a few of Nathan Beaulieu, Jonas Brodin, Oscar Klefbom, Jamie Oleksiak and Duncan Siemens should be drafted before our 17th pick. As well, there are two other top-notch forwards, Sven Bartschi and Mika Zibanejad, who should go in the first half of the draft. Assuming three of the five Dmen are selected, that means we now have 13 players who are likely to be gone before we step up to the podium.
Most Hab fans feel we should select a forward with our 1st rounder. If so, then we would be looking at a list of 5 possible candidates that might fill out the 14-17 spots: Joel Armia, Mark McNeil, JT Miller, Matt Puempel and Mark Scheifele. All of these players come with some warts, otherwise they would be in the top eight. Size, skating ability, attitude and nationality are all factors that come into play. There’s a bit of a risk-reward factor with all of them but I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the pool of candidates that produces our 1st round pick. For me, the tie-breaker should always be skating ability. My only qualifier is that if Dman Nathan Beaulieu is still available, we should jump at the chance to take him. We can wait another year before selecting a forward with some size.
Looking for a long shot? Nicklas Jensen would top my list while some people might consider Boone Jenner, Alex Khokhlachev or Brandon Saad.. Zack Phillips is also in the mix but I think there’s just too many other players in the same range of talent who might be a nudge ahead. Rocco Grimaldi? Sorry, way too small. Tyler Biggs? He can wait for Brian Burke. What about our hated rivals? The Bruins would love to get Hamilton or Murphy, but might have to settle for Beaulieu or Brodin.
You obviously have to wait and see how things unfold, but for a bubble team like Montreal I might be inclined to roll the dice and go for Nicklas Jensen. Some of the other candidates mentioned might turn out to be solid 2nd and 3rd liners, but Jensen just could break through to be a 1st line scoring machine. He also could be the next Marcel Hossa.
Final thought. It’s certainly gong to be tough to watch other teams select Huberdeau and Couturier.
I’d like them to get McNeill or Scheifele, if those two are gone than I think Jensen would be a good pick too.
25 before 14
Agree, and although I’m looking to pick up a big forward, I wouldn’t complain if they ended up with Oleksiak. Something about having two 6’7 d-men a few years down the road seems exciting to me.