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From Atlanta, The Gazette Pat Hickey asks, "Is there a player in the National Hockey League whose star has fallen faster than Michael Ryder?"
last year was there a bigger free agent disappointment than samsonov?
was there a worse trade than leclair and desjardins for recchi ten years ago, after which leclair showed his megastar potential?
how about tonight’s visitor, mike ribeiro?
it’s time to look in the mirror. we don’t allow offensive players to prosper here and they haunt us later, even though samsonov has not done so and won’t. ryder will.
Just a thought. Everyone keeps referring to Ryder as a sniper. From what I’ve seen in most cases, snipers can hit the net, and have some sort of offensive flair and creativity. Ryder is a one dimensional player that needs a good set up man aka Kovy. If Ryder is to break out of any slump, why not put him on #2 P unit as he wasn’t working out with Koivu and Higgins, maybe it is a psych issue. While I am not a fan of Ryder, letting him rot in the box does nothing for his value to other teams as a trade. He should be a 3rd liner on a team that needs to focus on offense more. I watched Chipchura as a junior, he is a very capable set up man. Move Lapierre to the wing and roll 3 lines, not 4. If a solution can’t be found before the trade deadlne then dump him for a pick. We need him to pick it up quick though or we’re just wasting cap space on him…and unless he’s good at laundry, I’m sure other teams won’t pay him to sit in the press box.
It is my view that Ryder has benefited from an enormous amount of patience on the part of his coaching staff as well as his fellow line & team mates.
It is also my view that the team’s management could have handled the situation a little better. However, few teams, if any, would be in a position to assume the related risks of persisting with a player this far gone. Ironically, I do not believe the fans have completely given up hope.
Never the less, there are games to be played and we happen to have several young gunners ready to assume his position. I sincerely hope he comes out of his slump, however, not at the expense of the team.
On the up side(if there is one)… He has held his head as high as can be expected, and has maintained an air of dignity and poise. Perhaps someday he’ll look back on this as a tremendous learning and character building experience.
Bottom line… I believe Ryder has great potential, but I cannot envision him rising out of the ashes this season… and thus, sadly… not with the Canadiens.
Who wants an overrated “sniper” who is a defensive liablity? Not me nor the Habs. Sure he’s lowered his +/- stats this year thanks to Guy and his staff but that can drastically change back to his old ways wherever we dump him to an NHL that wants him. Sorry Michael, we all have personal issues we have to cope with but you are supposed to be a role model to young Habs fans out there! Winners find there ways to come back and find their way to be put on a Wheaties box, but you have disappointed and shocked alot of Habs fans…..but not me.
“We will win the Cup only with Carey Price in the nets”
Yes exactly Timo. When Carbonneau benches Ryder and puts Defensemen as forwards, what does that do to the slumping Ryder’s confidence? Snipers and goaltenders need babying. Yes I agree some of it is Ryder’s fault, that its up to him to snap out of it but, at the same time, Carbonneau hasnt made it easy for him in the least. But as I said in a post somewhere about Stephane Richer, every goal scorer here in Montreal gets crucified at one point or another. So in my opinion I wouldnt want Ovechkin in Montreal as the same fate would await him…eventually. The blueprint of the modern day habs is to be like the NJ Devils of the 90s. Mind you that blueprint wins championships.
if the habs tried to run and gun with their opponents, they would lose big on a regular basis.
they dont have the offensive players to play that style. the only way to do it is to shut the other team down so our pathetic offense acutally has a chance of scoring more than the other team.
Carbo seems to be in love of playing D-men as forward. That is equivalent to “play not to lose” vs “play to win”. As for Ryder’s case, both him and the management are at fault. The statistics aside, his play just didn’t look good and there was no chemistry with his line mate. Carbo’s defensive PK style system didn’t help player like Ryder. He prefer to use another defensive minded player instead of Ryder. We miss Ryder’s quick release. Carbo’s system is not giving him opportunities to use it. Now we are shooting ourself in the foot. It becomes a lose-lose situation.
In fareness, Leclair was given every chance to succeed in Montreal and it just did not happen. He did some good things at times but then would disappear for games at a time.
hmmm…could it be that there really is such a thing as “player X will never fill his potential in Montreal?” I mean we talk about players like Ribeiro and say we gave up on him to soon (which I agree)and then he comes back and has a season like he is currently having with another team, but the truth is how do we know he would have ever done it in Montreal? Same as Leclair and all the others you want to discuss. How do we really know??
I agree 110%
This is ridiculous. You think that Gainey has some secret agenda to humiliate Ryder? Yes, that’s what he does all day – he sits in a little room and thinks up schemes to make his team fall apart.
Ryder sits because we have depth. And because he wasn’t scoring.
Answer one question:Who do you sit if you put Ryder back in? The speedy, talented rookie who has scored 2 goals in 3 games?
Be happy! At least the FUTURE looks bright!
Plekanec, Higgins, Komi, Chips, Lapierre, O’Byrne, K1 &K2, Price
Listen here, other players in this league have slumps, but you dont see them outcasted to the press box or the third or fourth line. Can someone with a grain of sense explain how you motivate a player from these places without a line of BS, If Gainey is so displeased with Ryder then throw in the towel and put him on waivers. And no crap about nothing in return. Carbo has no intention of playing him, only in front of the home crowd so they can practice their boo bird song, seems like they should get an music award. Problem is,once Ryder goes,whos turn is it then to be picked on.I surely hope he gets moved soon, and more than likely acheive what Riberto has done.
The man shouldnt have ever been benched, players go into slumps. I dont recall the leafs benching Jason Blake or taking him off his line. In my opinion a coach in the NHL shouldnt have to teach pros too many things, where a coach is invaluable is the mental aspect of a player like confidence building etc -so blame the teacher, not the student in this instance. I dont mind Carbonneau but he could be less trigger-happy at times.
Why compare Ryder to Blake? What is the point of that? There are big differences….first, Blake is being paid how much? I can tell you that it is lots. When you sign a UFA to a big contract you cannot put him in the press box because you look like the idiot! Ryder is not in the same category salary-wise, or talent-wise….second, if the Leafs put Blake in the pressbox who would they replace him with? Right! Not much there, is there? Ryder is being replaced by players who are performing much better, on a team with the depth to be able to juggle players in and out of the lineup.
Ryder’s drop in his performance level was not brought on by the coaching staff. Whatever the problem with Ryder, it is he who will have to find his way out of it. This team needs to put wins on the board in a very competitive conference with roughly fifteen points separating second place from last. So if a player who is performing better can be substituted for a player who is under-achieving, then you have to do it. Ryder gets his chances to get it back together, but he so far hasn’t been capable of doing that.
I’d love to believe that bringing Ryder out of the pressbox and re-instating him on the first line will translate into more goals, and hence more wins, but this team does not have the luxury of waiting for that to happen.
I hope Ryder gets a chance to play somewhere.He is young and will get over this slump but not in Montreal.Your right when its said he sits on the road and then put in at home where he hasnt a chance to build he confidence.
There 2 proven 30 goal scorers on the team, and one of them is sitting—unreal. Until some of the younger players comes along and prove they can score 25-30 goals per season then the proven scorers should be in there. If Ryder was 35-40 yrs then I could understand it being on the end of his career, however, at 27 — no you dont sit him especially on a team that need scoring. Maybe Carbo wants all defensive specialist who can score 10-15 goals a year, and go nowhere. I have been a avid Habs fan for more years than probably anyone else on this site and I’ve seen many coaches come and go with the habs, some of whom were good and some not so good, but I dont think any of them sat their 30 goal scorers.
At the first of the season, Carbo played Ryder and played Ryder – the vast majority on the first line. He got powerplay time even the last game he played. He didn’t score. Who do you sit for Ryder? Lats? That Lats/Lapierre/Dandy line is an AMAZING 3rd/4th line, getting great chances, bottling up great players – they were the best line against the Caps, I think, and they were great last night. Lats has played himself into a permanent roster spot. SKosts? With two goals in two games, he’s almost caught up to Ryder’s season total. Ditto – he’s gonna be hard to pry outta that spot. You certainly don’t sit Kovy. So, who do you sit? Kostopolous? Do we think Ryder is going to be a defensive specialist now? The fact remains that everyone, especially the young guys, are outplaying Ryder. Not that I don’t think he’s been trying – I do – but…
He needs a change of scenery – he’s not likely to wake up here. So, he probably also ought to get traded to the West, which complicates things even more.
You sit KOSTOP,
You sit GORGES by moving STREIT to Defense
those are the most obvious/easiest/smartest move any coach would do.
1. until the problem in my picture is solved…we will not be Champions.
2. Delenda Est Torontium….
3. your not a Hab fan till you watch & UNDERSTAND “The Rocket”
You sit Kostop, that means Ryder needs to kill penalties and be a defensive player – that’s the role that sitting Kostop fills. Does that make things better somehow?
Why sit Gorges? He’s gonna be a good, solid defenceman for us in the years to come – but he needs to play. He’s playing and doing his job. Ryder’s NOT been doing his. Why sit the guy who’s doing his job?
First, nothing against Kostop and Gorges, I think they are both playing fine and have roles. With Kostop I’d expected more Grit and more glove dropping and more Begin like hits…he has fallen off the radar. Gorges is a good kid but Streit is better on Defense at this time.
there are several pairings for killing penalties, we can do without Kostop if it means getting our ONLY 30goal scorer clicking;
Dandy,CHIP – Plek,Kovy – Higs,Koivu…need any more?
Ryder hasn’t scored 30 goals (along with the rest of the team).
IS THAT NOT DOING YOUR JOB?
clean your glasses and smell the roses. put streit back on defence and play Ryder. Like I said before, If he is not worthy, then let him go. forget about trading him out west, I think Julien would love to have him. I am a hab follower, but it makes my blood boil to see this lousy system carbo has brought to Montreal and how he treats people.
Bob Gainey is one of the classiest and smartest hockey people I’ve ever met. You are capable of a lot more DTD as this is a pretty asinine comment. If you want to disagree with Bob Gainey’s hockey decisions – go ahead. But to boo a man (who helped us win at least 5 Stanley Cups as a player and helped turn around this franchise as a GM) on his jersey retirement night is ridiculous.
Add me to the list of people who have had enough of you DTD. We don’t need fans like you. All you do is hope that players, management and the team do poorly so that you can satisfy your hatred of them.
I like Kostop, he plays hard. But I agree, Gorges hasn’t been playing that great. Let Ryder have another shot, get hot and then trade him. We can win without Ryder (as we have), so let’s get someone consistent we count on to help us win!
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At the moment, we have 3rd and 4th lines other teams would envy. They are playing great – and when the top two lines are playing, we’ve got a solid team. I don’t think we want to break up any of the lines, at the moment. The only guy sitting right now I’d put back in is Begin – replace Kostop with him when Begin’s ready to go. Other then that, leave ‘er.
Ryder’s had lots of chances to make things work. He hasn’t. We’ve got the depth to replace him, so we did.
Oh, and Gorges/Cube are looking really good, really comfortable and solid as the 5/6 pair. Streit back there was looking tentative. I’d rather see Gorges/Cube.
I remember steve shutt who was not a great skater but who could score goals fast on the trigger he went to power skating school one summer if I remember right.Turned into a very good player
A TALE OF TWO SNIPERS
the 40 goal man, has scored 1 more goal then Ryder since near the start of the season – mid OCT, THREE MONTHS of HOCKEY! He averages about 17 MINUTES PER GAME and those minutes have STAYED CONSISTENT. NOW, has he been scratched, benched, ridiculed, called out, demoted to secondary lines, demoted to grinder lines, demoted to hotdog stand, demoted to sweeping floors? answer:GRAND TOTAL OF ZERO. NEVER. HE HAS PLAYED EVERY GAME IN AN EFFORT TO GET HIS SNIPING BACK ON TRACK AND PRODUCE GOALS – REMEMBER – GOALS are needed to WIN – SNIPER IS VERY IMPORTANT – HOCKEY 101.
25, 30, 30 GOAL SEASONS – Started the year sharp with 1/2pt per game, massive improvement on his defensive responsibilities, team is winning and then WHAM, maybe LATRON is 1st line material experiment #1 of many, and WHAM Higs can’t find the net, its RYDERS fault! – so begins the endless shuffle and now Mr R-Sniper is avg less than 10mins/game on 3rd and 4th units where even in that role he is doing his job, but still ends up eating hotdogs and all the while keeps a great atitude, never a bad word or WHINING to the press, what a tEAM PLAYER…BUT NOT HOW YOU GET PRODUCTION FROM A SNIPER.
CARBS ONLY TRUE TEST of the season has been his handling of the RYDER DEBACLE, and he has in my opinion FAILED – although I think CARB has performed very well on all other aspects of his tenure.
GOING FORWARD, I hope soon, very soon, TONIGHT. that RYDER is back in the lineup, even on the 3rd or 4th line. Kostop should sit or Streit back to D and let Gorges sit.
We need our GUNS GUNNING.
Amen to that!!
Well said Hab professor
this may be my favorite post EVER. thank you.
Or we could hang on to him forever and hope that he breaks out of his funk, and if he never does…..then what?
If he could be traded, we at least might get some prospect or maybe even some grit…Ryder will get a new lease on his hockey life somewhere else. A win for both sides.
No GM can control or predict what a player will do once traded. At some point, you just have to do it. Ryder at best, IMO, will go on to be just what he was in Montreal…a 25-30 goal scorer. He will hardly lead some other team to a Stanley Cup.
I imagine we will give Ryder away…and he will turn out like John Leclair!!!
Ryder has two problems, the first is mental and the second is physical.
After two years of arbitration he feels he is not being paid what he is worth, he needs to see a sports psychiatrist to put him in the right frame of mind and become a productive team player.
He showed up in camp in average physical condition due to the mental problems created by his arbitration, lost confidence as he was a step or two slower than the more fit players who worked their butts off in the summer. He does not get the message the coaches are giving him, they tell him to work hard in practice, the coaches are really saying you need to work allot harder than everyone else to get a chance, he needs to become stronger and faster because the depth chart on the Habs has risen and there are now more players that can fill his spot.
Is Ryder really a 30 goal scorer? The answer is only with the Habs, he would never have gotten the chance to play as much on the power play with any of the top 20 teams in the NHL last year.
Unless he makes the effort mentally and physically to get better, in today’s NHL he is really an average 3rd or 4th line forward.
Most times for a player that is in this frame of mind only a trade can save his career, the biggest motivator will be to prove everyone wrong.
Ryder is currently his own worst enemy.
habs freek ,I have to agree with you on DTD,and on the comment he made to smart dog was uncalled for and rude,mabe he needs to pick another team to bash…..I think he does this to get attention.I tried to listen to his comments,but he gets to mad when we lose and takes it out on everyone.So DTD please try to be nice to your fellow fans and I wish you a merry christmas……..
JUST A 25-30 GOAL SCORER?
I’d say mtl. could use a couple of those…considering as we don’t have either one at this point.
Richard, re-read my comment. I didn’t say “just a 25-30 goal scorer”, I said just the same as he was in Montreal, which is a 25-30 goal scorer….you see the difference? I’m not belittling a 25-30 goal scorer, like your reply implies. I’m saying he will not become anything more than that anywhere else.
25-30 goal scorers are great to have on any team…when they score them.
was a huge fan of zednik. . . kind of panicked he would burn us, too. . . glad he didn’t but he was a fun player to watch for us.
I agree with you and HabsFreak. Like Jacques Demers said last night on RDS, Ryder has been given plenty of chance (including the PP) but for whatever reason he fell short.
Repeating ad nauseam his goal production of past years doesn’t make any sense either. What counts is his production and contribution this year. Those goals of the past don’t do diddly squat right now, do they?
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