Cournoyer speaks about vacant Habs captaincy

Former Canadiens captain Yvan Cournoyer says the Habs shouldn’t rush into naming a new captain to replace Brian Gionta.

“Maybe it’s too rushed to have a captain named before the season,” Cournoyer told The Gazette’s Dave Stubbs on the weekend. “Maybe they can wait a little bit and once the season starts and the guys are together a little, they can talk among themselves and say: ‘This guy can do the job.’ ”

The 70-year-old Cournoyer, who hoisted the Stanley Cup four times as Canadiens captain between 1975 and 1979, added that it’s hard for him to say who on the current Habs roster has the potential to be captain. But he did say the captain should be decided by the players, not a management appointment.

“I’m not with them, I don’t know what they can do,” Cournoyer told Stubbs about who could wear the C next. “A captain is not just something on the ice. Most of the time, it’s what he’s good at off the ice. It’s to bring the guys together.”

And Cournoyer doesn’t think it would be a good idea for two players to share the captaincy, as was the case with Guy Carbonneau and Chris Chelios during the 1989-90 season.

“That’s not the way to go,” Cournoyer, who won a total of 10 Stanley Cups with the Habs, told Stubbs.

“Is the captain very, very, very important today, compared to what he once was? I don’t know,” he added. “Maybe it doesn’t have the same sense as in the days of Maurice (Richard) and Jean (Beliveau) and Henri (Richard).

“Captains are traded now or they choose to go elsewhere. We’d change a few guys from one season to another but today, even if you win, you’re going to change the team with the salary cap and free agency.”

Max Pacioretty was on TSN Radio 690 Monday and said he has had discussions with P.K. Subban about the vacant captaincy and that both players were ready to fill the void left by Gionta’s departure to Buffalo.

“We briefly touched upon being leaders and wearing letters potentially on this team, but at the end of the day everybody on the team wants what’s best for the team and if people feel like me or PK or someone else would be a good candidate for the captain then I’m 100 per cent on board with whatever decision is made,” Pacioretty told the radio station.

(Photo by Richard Wolowicz/Getty Images)

Off-ice skills key to wearing C for Habs, Cournoyer says, by The Gazette’s Dave Stubbs

Pacioretty says he and Subban ready to fill leadership void,

Ho-Sang gets Subban treatment from Hockey Canada, by Jack Todd


  1. Hobie says:

    @ Krob

    The Canadiens will have more cap space at the deadline in 2015 than they did in 2014. The have just shy of $3 million at the moment. In March that’s enough to sign a $10 million dollar player for the stretch and playoffs. If I’m not mistaken?

    So the Habs are actually in better shape, even after the Subban deal, than they were last year at the deadline.

    Hobie’s Habs Video :

    • krob1000 says:

      They are still in need of signing likely two players…probably a tough guy and/or a vet dman like Bouillon. Also by the deadline what will be used in call ups? There is plenty of time for MB to make some moves and he has shown he pays attention to the cap.

      They would have been in real good shape had Subban got around 7.5 which I think would have been fair myself but it is done now….all we can do now is pull fo Subban to keep improving and to deliver like he did nin the playoffs.

      • Ozmodiar says:

        No, they don’t have to sign anyone. With Sekac, they already have 23 on the roster.

        If they add, they’ll have to subtract as well.

        • krob1000 says:

          You only subtract them if they are gone…but not if they are injured unless it is long term. MB is a guy who signs depth and it paid off last year for him. I would be shocked if team does not sign another vet dman and a tough guy. Would be ideal if they were swapped out money and money out with two ways and that is likely what MB is trying to offer Bouillion…but we’ll see how it shakes out. I am not convinced MB is not tyring to jockey as is….because he likely does want plenty of cap space at the deadline.

          • Ozmodiar says:

            If they sign 2 players, as you suggest, they will have to remove 2 from the current 23 man roster. They will be subtracted. They will be gone.

            You mentioned the need to sign 2 players to make a point about how the Habs aren’t done spending, when really, if they sign 2 more it would be a wash cap-wise (if goon + bouillon). Add 2, minus 2.

            Sure, injury call-ups will have an impact, but this is the case whether or not they sign 2 more players.

          • Paz says:

            I think they will trade Budaj for a pick and this will save them money immediately as Tokarski is only at 562k. This move alone will save them 800k.

            The second move I would make is to dump Moen for a draft pick and replace him with a Carr, or a De la Rose type player, a savings of another 1 million in this move.

            These two moves combined will save us about 1.8 million.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Not a fan of going rental back to back years. If a trade is to be made I am hopeful it will be for a player under contract. Perhaps I am just paranoid, but rentals can be a dangerous path to go down. Hate the longterm affects.

      • krob1000 says:

        Team has some accelerated development and a decent stable of prospects , acquiring Sekac for nothing (which is like a 2ndt rd pick that has been aged, Gregoire looking like he is going to be turning out to be the equivalent of a 2nd, Andrighetto , De La Rose, Scherbak,etc seems to have the cupboards relatively stocked. That isn;t that impressie until you consider the amount of quality forwards the team has at the NHL elvel who are not included in the prospect pool because they are already playing….Chucky, Eller, Gally, Bournival even Patches are all still young…ont he back end the team has subban, Beaulieu, Tinordi, pateryn, etc all developing. The main advantage to kids anymoe is their value realtive to the cap ….the Habs have quite a bit of that coming and that is without the fringe guys like the Reways, Lehkonen, Bozon,even Mccarron,etc and the second tier of D prospects. If any ofthem work out even better but the hAbs have several homegrown talents who like they are set in the organization for a long time… can again afford to make something happena t teh deadline.

        Besides, what is the alternative? overpay in free agency? or acquire player via trade where you are going to paty too…..most cost effective plan appears to be rental unless right trde happens along and MB has time to weight that before having to do anything at the deadline.

  2. Habfan10912 says:

    Speaking of fast food, some good news on golf’s class act, Arnold Palmer who successfully had a pace maker installed.

  3. krob1000 says:

    The biggest difference between this deadline/season ( ability to bolster lineup with another scoring winger should Sekac,De La Rose,etc nto work out) and last years will be cap space…the extra dollars given to PK will hurt come deadline(or whenever discussing upgrade/trade options). MB will have to be creative and it will not be as easy as plucking who you want because you have room…that is one obstacle that I feel is very real now. Fortunately on the flip side Max Pac may now have the best contract in the NHL for the next couple of seasons.

    • shiram says:

      Best contract is Tavares I would think, though Max is up there too.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Bang for the buck for sure.

      • krob1000 says:

        That is what upsets me about Subban contract…even if he wins the Norris trophy the next 3 years he is still not a value contract….a great player and locked up as a HAb ..but he can never be a value player now and in a cap world I feel that is necessary ….there has to be better than cap value as a whole…so what is lost in Subban must be made up in “value per dollar” elsewhere. The salary cap made roster decisions and cap management’s importance quadruple….and I think is a big part of why you are seeing all of these data extractors and advanced stats attempts … try to recognize the players whose value is better than going rate per dollar.

        • Habfan10912 says:

          Solid post. Bergevin has done a masterful job managing the cap thus far so I trust it’s all part of his “plan”.

        • Just a Habs Fan says:

          Just wait until PK has a couple of bad games…and he will…this place will be ready to explode on him. Personally I don’t think he is worth anything near the 9M a year the contract gives him but hope I am wrong. He just isn’t that consistent and yes he has tremendous talent at times but he really does play inconsistent at times also. The NHL is fast becoming a sport where a team is probably better off to let many of their UFAS go via the trade route…it just handcuffs a team so much to pay one or two players huge money…what will they do when Chucky and Gally needs renewal …..who do they let go then to stay under the cap

  4. Ozmodiar says:

    Pleks has had 69 and 70 point seasons when playing with offensively gifted wingers (sans Darche, Moen, Gionta, etc). Both would be career highs for any other Habs forward. That’s an offensive game I can live with considering the role he plays.

    He’s also the Habs best defensive forward.

    Sure, he’s not Getzlaf or Crosby, but he’s certainly not on the list of Habs’ troubles.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      I’m with you Oz but I admit I was disappointed in his play against the Rags. He wasn’t the only one though. I think it was Shane who said that the veterans were no shows but the kids showed up.

      • Chris says:

        I can’t really put it on just the vets…hardly anybody on the team played well against the Rangers. To borrow a cycling term, the Habs just looked like they completely bonked after the Bruins series.

        • Kooch7800 says:

          As soon as Price was out the series was doomed.

          If they would have capitalized earlier in the bruins series (not blowing the two goal lead and the game etc) they may have had more in the tank. Was a great run though and they will learn from it

  5. Bogie Man says:

    I see Parenteau replacing Gionta (scoring wise) and I see Malhaltra replacing Ryan White. We have no one to replace Vanek (top 6 forward) yet. My assumption is MB is still looking for this player and will acquire him via trade and likely not before October 1st however it will happen prior to trade deadline. Kane, Thorton, Sharp are names that I keep hearing.

  6. 123456 says:

    Due to my post below regarding Pleks I went back to his early years and then went back to before he arrived in Habs land. So I’m looking at the 2001-2002 season as that’s when my daughters were born (a lil trip down memory lane for me).

    So in that season Yanic Perreault led the team in scoring – wow I do not remember that.

  7. Kooch7800 says:

    So according to Meehan the habs are still in discussions with the Cube for a 1 year deal…I don’t see how that could work especially at 1.5 for the year as that would eat into the limited cap space.

  8. DipsyDoodler says:

    Quiz of the day.

    What is your Fast Food Guilty Pleasure?



    • DipsyDoodler says:

      For me, no contest.

      McDonald’s Egg and Sausage McMuffin.



      • Cal says:

        Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww! That sausage is nothing but heartburn waiting to be digested.

        Mine is a Michigan from the cantine.

      • Mavid ® says:

        Geez only one..just about anything at McDonald the sausage McMuffin with egg..the fries..Big Mac…Angus Burgers…iced coffee..and thos McFlurries with chocolate bar pieces…ooh and Shawarmas with garlic potatoes..never really considerd that to be fast food ..I guess it is..Gyros now I am hungry..

        Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

    • shiram says:

      Amir shish taouk plate, with extra garlic sauce.

      • Kooch7800 says:

        never tried that before. Will have to give it a shot

      • DipsyDoodler says:

        Absolutely!, including the extra garlic sauce, but I don’t put that in the fast food category.

        Basha’s or Amir’s though?

        There’s also a good one on Crescent St. where Andrei Kostitsyn gained much of his excess weight. Picture of him on the wall.



        • shiram says:

          I find that both franchise will have differing taste and quality depending on which place you go to /order from.

          For me, the closest and easiest place is an Amir, and usually I find Amir to be better overall.

          To me it’s fast food, it’s served within minutes of being ordered, is not healthy and is also a comfort food.

          Downtown/near the Bell Centre I usually go to Kojax, and take their chicken wrap with the tzatziki sauce, I prefer it to the Basha’s around here.

      • Timo says:

        Yep. Amir’s been always great. Miss it here.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Here in my neck of the woods we have a franchise that has expanded quite a bit called Montforts, It isn’t fast food, but I just call my order in by phone and by the time I arrive its ready. So I get to have it for lunch quite often. Love that genre of cuisine!

        • Ozmodiar says:

          Their tzatziki is deliciously addictive. We call it crack sauce.

          • shiram says:

            Lays came out with some kettle cooked tzatziki chips, they are quite good!

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Yup, agree Oz, seems to me they recently changed their other sauce, used to have more of a curry flavour, I need to get my but into the original montforts and find out. Sometimes I think the franchises start messing up the old recipes.

          • Ozmodiar says:

            I’ll get Mrs Oz on the curious case of the modified sauce. She knows the owner of the Burlington location. … assuming he’s still the owner. Maybe he went out with the old sauce.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Two Owners, the original couple that owned it split up and so did the empire. A fellow I knew used to own the North Burlington franchise, but he is no longer there. Essentially the franchises are co-ordinated through the original Oakville location (Mrs. Montfort we’ll say) and the original Burlington location (Mr. Montfort). This is my understanding of it, love the food though just the same. Not sure how many locations are owned by either party or if they have actual franchise owners.

            CHeers Oz!

          • Ozmodiar says:

            Maybe you know the same guy as Mrs Oz. 🙂
            It was off upper middle. This was… oh, 5 years ago.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Odie? Yup that was the guy, real nice guy. Apparantly Mr. Montfort took it back over though, don’t know details.

            Yah was the one on Upper Middle and Itabishi.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      Shawarma….love it

      • Habfan10912 says:

        Had that once in Montreal with Burly, Bripro and L Elle. I think it was a chicken-something or other. Good stuff.

        • GrimJim says:

          When I was a student in Ottawa I used to eat shawarma all the time. No chains just little mom-and-pop shops but there was one every second block at the time. That and food truck poutine …

          • Mavid ® says:

            The best place in Ottawa hands down is Matar, bank and Albion..owner runs it and serves you..toasts it over a charcoal grill..there is also a small grocery store attached. I have had lots of Shawarma’s this guys is the best!
            Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

        • Kooch7800 says:

          Yeah, it is perfect after a bar 😉

    • GrimJim says:

      the Mondo Burrito from Taco Del Mar
      but they closed all the franchises here in Calgary so my second choice would be
      Meatball and bacon sub from Subway

    • frontenac1 says:

      Happy Hour. Any Saloon will do.

  9. DipsyDoodler says:

    Reading that Burger King and Tim Horton’s are going to merge. The shocker in the story for me is that Tim Horton’s sells 8 out of every 10 cups of coffee in Canada.

    Although I’ve never had their coffee ( ex-Maple Leaf wasn’t he?) , I once had breakfast at Tim’s while my car was being serviced and it was the worst food I’ve ever paid for. And I have lived in England.



    • HabinBurlington says:

      Isn’t Burger King the worst Fast Food Burgers, shouldn’t the marriage between the two then be perfect?

    • shiram says:

      I had one of their sandwich, it was quite awful, as in take 2 bites and regret those bites.
      They sold for a whopping 11 billion dollars though, so that attest to their size and footprint.
      They become the 3rd biggest fast good chain.

      • DipsyDoodler says:

        Regret is an intrinsic part of the fast food experience.

        I guess it’s also part of drinking to excess, one-night stands, and following sports teams.



    • DipsyDoodler says:

      The other interesting aspect of the story is that Burger King will move its head office to Canada to take advantage of lower corporate taxes. This goes to show why rock bottom corporate taxes as a job creation scheme doesn’t work. You don’t attract good corporations, just bottom feeders like Burger King.



    • Cal says:

      Burger Tim’s?

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      Hasn’t Tims been hooked up with Wendys? Did BK buy Wendys too?

      As with any other franchise, there are good and not so good outlets. We like both in our town but work to avoid the one in a nearby town.

      I remember when BK was very good. In the 70s, we’d occasionally cross the border from Sarnia to Port Huron to get a big, juicy Whopper for about a buck.

  10. HabinBurlington says:

    If this kid can stay healthy, get stronger, he could provide some offence to the Habs down the road.

  11. Chris says:

    Vanek played 18 regular season games with Montreal, mostly with Desharnais and Pacioretty.

    In those 18 games, Vanek scored 6 goals (coming in 4 of the 18 games) but he amassed 15 points. 2 of his goals were on the PP. Desharnais scored 5 goals and 15 points in his 18 games, with 1 PPG. Pacioretty scored 8 goals and 17 points, with 0 PPG.

    In the 18 games prior to the trade, Desharnais had scored 5 goals and 16 points with 1 PPG, while Pacioretty had scored 11 goals and 16 points with 4 PPG. Brendan Gallagher, who was bumped from that line upon the arrival of Vanek, scored 5 goals (2 PPG) and 14 points over his previous 18 games, but slumped to 3 goals and 6 points in his final 18 games.

    Basically, the presence of Vanek on that line really didn’t change the scoring fortunes of Pacioretty and Desharnais, who simply continued the torrid scoring pace they had already established in the second half. Vanek was basically a wash with Gallagher from a scoring point of view, and the hoped for improvement in scoring balance did not really materialize as Gallagher did not fit well with Plekanec.

    While I was in favour of the Vanek trade, I don’t see a gaping hole left by his departure. What the Habs desperately need is a decent sniper who can actually play well with Plekanec…this has been a much tougher fit than most Habs fans probably realize.

    Earlier in the summer, people were talking about perhaps moving Plekanec to the wing and letting Galchenyuk center that line. I would be curious to see how that would work. Galchenyuk seems to be more of a natural playmaker, while Plekanec doesn’t seem to make his linemates better. The Plekanec line has been where scorers have gone to slump over the past 2-3 years in Montreal.

    Plekanec is more of a shoot-first player, so perhaps freeing him up to play that role as a winger and giving Galchenyuk more freedom wouldn’t be a bad idea.

    • 123456 says:

      I love Pleks but there’s no secret he does not drive the net hard enough and that will cause for some production loss (or production not to be had). On the other hand – I think he is so underrated and the difficulties often lie with the players not being as gifted/creative as Pleks is. I often find Pleks looking to create something when his wingers are not to be found….. while I attribute this to the wingers not being as good maybe Pleks is playing outside the system….IDK

      Pleks on the wing would be an interesting experiment and I like it on many levels – except that I believers wingers need to drive to the offensive net.

      • Chris says:

        I have a hard time with the notion that Plekanec struggles because his linemates are not as gifted or creative as he is. Far too often, a player gets going really well with either Desharnais or Eller as their center, and then they get “promoted” to the Plekanec line and there is simply no chemistry.

        One HUGE part of the issue is obviously Plekanec’s attention to his defensive responsibilities. That is necessarily an anchor on his linemates’ scoring production, as they are more often than not running into the best players from the other team, and often get defensive zone starts.

        But there is just something about Plekanec’s offensive game that has always irked me. I like him as a player, and I think he is probably the team’s most important forward. But he just doesn’t have the mentality of a center in the offensive zone, sometimes. He’s not looking to dish the pass, he’s looking for his own shooting lane. Consequently, the pass is often a little later than it perhaps should have been when it does come through, resulting in the previous shooting lane for his teammate having been narrowed if not closed.

    • Cal says:

      I don’t think Pleks’ reward for playing 8 years at center should be a move to the wing. Chucky has plenty of time to get better before shifting him to center.

  12. 24 Cups says:

    As for the discussion below, if posters feel Parenteau can replace Vanek then who replaces Gionta?

    At this point in time, the Habs have two right wingers (Gallagher and Parenteau) who can score 20 goals. Can they score 30? I doubt it.

    The other two right wingers are a guy who has never played an NHL game and a 4th line plugger. Plan B is having one of Moen or Prust shift to the RW. Neither one of these guys is a goal scorer.

    It’s easy to crap all over Vanek after he flamed out during the playoffs. However, most posters on this site were ecstatic about what he could bring to the team (top end goal scoring and net presence on the PP) to the point where they entertained thoughts of a 7 or 8 year deal. The only way this team replaces Vanek’s production is for Therrien to let Galchenyuk loose, both as the 2nd line LW and as a major part of the PP. Which was my original point that I posted earlier this morning.

    24 Cups

    • Kooch7800 says:

      We don’t have anyone to replace Vanek. Plain and simple. I think MB is rolling the dice to see if the kids can step up. PA is also not the two way player that Gionta was. Apparently Sekac is a decent two-way player but I believe he is a LW not RW.

      Our offense won’t be as potent this year I believe unless the kids really start to emerge. I think Chucky can step up this year

    • 123456 says:

      Thank you for bringing some reasoning to the discussion.

      While I think Gionta or Vanek are replaced with more ice time to the youngsters I don’t think replacing them both is as easily done.

      Time will tell.

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      Do we need to “replace” Vanek, given that he played 18 regular season games with the Habs? We were a pretty good team without him in the regular season.

      And don’t forget that we could get another Vanek at the 2015 trade deadline.



      • 123456 says:

        I have struggled with that thought. Habs were a solid team but the thought of one more elite player is certainly nice.

        History has shown that you can’t force guys like Moen, Bulis, Higgins, etc into top 6 roles.

        • DipsyDoodler says:

          Right, but we could only fit Vanek under the cap for those 18 games.

          Having another player at $7M per for the entire season just isn’t an option.



    • Hobie says:

      When the Habs picked up Vanek you could feel some momentum swing the Habs way. We suddenly had a top tier 1st line. He will be missed for sure.

      I think the Habs will be slightly better than average, 5th or 6th spot, then hopefully pick someone up at the deadline with the cap space we have.

      Hobie’s Habs Video :

    • savethepuck says:

      I don’t understand why there is so much concern about replacing Vanek going into the season. Vanek was a rental acquired at last years deadline for a late season run and added scoring in the playoffs. There is no way Habs have CAP room to replace him going into this season. He can be replaced at this season’s trade deadline at a fraction of the CAP hit. I don’t think you can compare the Habs that start this season to the Habs roster that finished last season. It is an unfair comparison. There are more teams than Montreal that were unable to sign someone in the offseason to make up for a rental they lost after last season’s end.

      “They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
      Carey Price

      • 123456 says:

        Totally agree but the thought process stems from how good the Habs looked on paper. For the first time in a along time the Habs fielded a solid 20 guys on gameday,

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      I think this year is a put up or shut up year for our brain trust. Marc Bergevin says he’s not afraid to take a step back this season as responsibilities are transferred to the young leadership corps. Let’s see the boys work things out this year and struggle through the ups and downs, and have Lars Eller, Alex Galchenyuk, René Bourque, among others, all take a bigger bite of the sandwich.

      As burli says, the constant trade deadline acquisitions rob your organization of depth. I thought last season’s trade was a good one, un beau risque by Marc Bergevin, but it ultimately cost us a second-rounder and Sebastian Collberg, that’s not chicken feed. So let’s see if a Jacob de la Rose or Jiri Sekac or Sven Andrighetto tears up the AHL and earns a callup next season. If not, I don’t mind chalking up next season as a development year, a learning lesson type of season.

    • krob1000 says:

      I was ecstatic….still think Vanek was misused…butt aht doesn;t change the fact we are not replacing 40 goals…we are replacing 6 goals ove rthe last 18 games and 15 points. A hot stretch for sure…but a small part of the season. Not sure where you are getting 30 gaols from? ewhen he scored 6 as a HAb though.
      As far os offensive production goes I am quite sure the team wil be fine there….
      1. Last year team basically forfeited 2nd half of pp’s with Gilbert/Beaulieu (likely) this gives team viable 2nd pp.
      2. The most important non pp factors for forwards IMO offensively are zone/situational starts paired with dmen. This year the HAbs should have a FAR better puck moving team which alone wil produce 5 on 5 offense.
      3. Sekac/Bournival,etc….I do not beleive Gio’s 18 goals are all that impressive considering his usage throughout the year…what is impressive is that many of them were at even strength and against tough competition…that part will be hard to replicate…but not the number of goals at 18 itself.
      4. Malhotra if he pans out should significantly lessen the burden on Plkes defensively as well as Eller which should allow him a little more opportunity to play offensively.
      5. Natural progression-Given many of the Canadiens offensive players (Patchs, Subban, Eller, Chucky, Gally, etc( have not entered their prime or are just starting it) it is ok to assume they will produce similarly to last year or better.
      6. Dd and Eller both had horrific stretches last year….both were pretty solid in playoffs….one wouldhope they come out and do not have that sustained drought.
      7. Bourque. Another guy who even marginal improvement should result in more goals…and has potential alone to replace GIonta if he decides to play every day…and he may just have to now with Gio gone…he and Eller clicked during the playoffs.

      While I will always agree any team needs a sniper…I can also argue the team has a pretty elite one in Patches..39 goals..wis pretty aweome. This is where what Guy,etc said and I may hurt some people but he may have a bit of a point….he did not come thorugh in the clutch….doesn’t mean he didn’t learn from it but the Habs have an elite sniper…he just did not have success at the right times like some other snipers have in the playofs like Gaborik or Kane,etc. But during the regular season he was as elite as elite gets.

  13. Chelios24 says:

    I see Subban as potential Captain (or strong leader) material but not Pacioretty. Pacioretty seems like he’s partly afraid or not willing to get his nose very dirty or push back against tough checking, strong physical play and especially any rough stuff. He’s a soft big forward, in my opinion. He’s intelligent and skilled (albeit streaky) but I don’t see him being a good choice for Captain (or a strong leadership role). He’s a perimeter player who usually shies away from the rough stuff, despite being big. He also doesn’t bring it energy/focus-wise every night. That is not inspiring and sends the wrong message to the rest of the team and the opposition. Truth is that right now there’s a significant leadership vacuum on the Habs. Price and Subban are good young leaders but I don’t think they’re ready yet to replace Gionta and Gorges. Gallagher is a potential strong team leader but is what, 22 years old?

  14. Timo says:

    So Rogers is introducing a new service to rival Netflix for… wait for it… more $$$ than netflix and less content. Awesome, isn’t it?

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Yes, and since they ‘won’ their fight against net neutrality, they can now ‘shape’ web traffic, intentionally slowing down Netflix downloads and prioritizing their own content, so, uh, everybody wins! Or at least, everybody at Rogers wins.

      That led some people to speculate that Rogers might be throttling or deliberately slowing down Netflix as part of its internet traffic management practices. If that were the case, it would be required to disclose the practice under Canadian net neutrality rules.

      Rogers’s social media team responded both on its blog and on Twitter that “We absolutely do not throttle traffic on our network.”

      University of Ottawa law professor Michael Geist, who specializes in issues related to the internet, wrote on his blog Tuesday that Rogers’s responses “raise troubling questions about how Rogers manages its network and whether the slow Netflix speeds could have been used to create a competitive advantage for its own online video services.”

  15. Luke says:

    Have y’all hashed through the Jack Todd article yet?

    ‘Cuz I just got back, and am reading it, and am… well shocked. And feel like I probably missed a good discussion on how Jack’s let reality slip away from him a little further than usual.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      That is crappy. Feel for him as I am sure that isn’t how he wants to leave the game. In the positives though he is still a millionaire who could coach or scout and be involved in the game in some capacity

  16. Mavid ® says:


    Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

  17. krob1000 says:

    Keep reading almost daily about Habs “losing Vanek’s goal production” and how was Vanek replaced? Team needs to find 40 goals,etc,etc?
    Vanek scored a whopping 6 goals for the Canadiens…in the playoffs he added 5 gaols…he cost the team a 2nd round pick…so the simple answer? There is nothing to replace during the regular season…and for the stretch and playoffs? if you wnt to replace him…spend a little at the deadline…that simple.

    • shiram says:

      I do partly agree with this.

      But if the Habs had another scoring winger, another real threat in the offensive zone,it would help out the team a lot.
      Right now Max is the one guy we have like that, and opposing team can focus on him.

      If there was another guy on DD’s wing like that it would spread the defensive effort.
      Or even on another line, both lines could not face the best defense from the other team.

      Replacing Gorges with Gilbert should help the transition game, and bolster the PP, so that should lead to some more goals.

      But we sure could use another bonafide goal scorer.

      • krob1000 says:

        IMO acquiring Parenteau should do that….if it doesn’t? Recently when Parenteau was receiving top line minutes,etc he put up 67 points…which would have led the HAbs last season. IF the Habs put him in a purely offesnive role which iws waht that line was doing…especially with Vanek on it? he will be good for 60 points IMO and replace Vanek.

        • shiram says:

          Parenteau seems to me more like a playmaker than a sniper, or just plain goal scorer.

          The fact that he had 20 goals, just once is surely indicative of that.
          Though he’s been hampered by injury, and could have gotten more last season, and was at 18g in 48 in the lockout shortened season, though with an unlikely to be sustainable shooting %.

          Health will be prime for him to push over 20 goals.

          • krob1000 says:

            I think role will be the most important factor….the Habs have several guys whocould score more if used differently. The issue is the other way….guys like Pleks are needed in other areas (that will be slightly lessened this year hopefully if Malhotra pans out) . PArenteauz output will be dictate by MT’s usage of him on the PP and in top line situations and with lienemates. The Habs have DD, Patches, Gallagher, Pleks, Eller, Chucky and Parenteau IMO who can all produce 50-60 points if given the apporiate linemates and role….but hat would be detrimental to the team as it would put other guys in roles they cannot support.
            A guy like Parenteau I would figure was brought in to play offense…that is his game…whether or not MT is willing to let him? only time will tell. I am all for getting anotehr sniper sooner but I think the HAbs are going to be drmatcially better offensivley as is assuming decent health. I am expecting 15-20 more goals from the team as is.

          • shiram says:

            Gio’s ES production could be hard to recoup though, but overall it does seem like the team is better suited to play an offensive game.

            And you I’d be extremely happy have 7 guys around 55 points, that’s some dep right there! But there’s only 2 waves of PP.

            And while Therrien seems to divide ES time evenly among Pleky, DD and Eller, there’s also matchups and zone starts.

            I too am hoping for more goals, and think Gilbert could be a key there too, and to a lesser degree Beaulieu as well, if he makes the team.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      krob, I always read your posts and often agree. Did you not see a different look on our number 1 line after Vanek was inserted with Max and DD?

      We all recognize he was only a Hab for a short time, but for that short time I was drooling at how good our top line looked and how much it freed up better space for other forward lines. I also enjoyed what he did on the powerplay.

      Did Vanek have a dropoff against the Rangers? Absolutely, but to me it showed what Max could be when the opposing team couldn’t just focus on shutting down one forward.

      • krob1000 says:

        I did very briefly…but that can again be attained at the deadline. It was very short lived… I have seen lines light it up like that and then fade before. I just don’t think there is anything that needs to be replaced…if it does need to be replaced for the stretch? then bolster again with future assets. The team is not losing anything relative to last year untilt hat point in the season arrives and then we can assess.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          I don’t want the permanent solution to our top scoring line to be a permanent trade deadline move though. First of all, those picks and prospects add up when you start pitching them out the door every season. Secondly, the player you are picking up never gets to really fit in, this makes it harder to avoid slumps.

          I am hopeful Galchenyuk is our long term top line solution, but don’t want the rut of trade deadline deals again. Gainey tried it, and we saw how bare our cupboard was for awhile.

          • krob1000 says:

            HAbs don’t seem to wnat a “top line”…unless you have an elite dynamic duo that is not necessarily a recipe for success IMO. Perry/Getzlaf, Crosby/Malkin, Kane/Toews sure you can succeed but there are only so many of those guys…instead Habs have to go with depth and roles. Whoever the AHbs choose to make the top scorers will the teams top scorers….IMO the best possible “top line” if you were trying to produce one would actually be Chucky-Pleks-Patches. If you gave Pleks a primarily offensive rtole, `1st line pp, had Chcuky get those minutes and role as well….I think you would have their stats end up something like
            Pleks 25-45
            Pathces 35-40
            Chcky 20-45
            but what would this do to the rest of the team?
            I think one of the kids will emerge this year as a vialbe 15 goal guy….that is wll that is needed right now.

    • Phil C says:

      The price of a deadline pickup was oddly cheap last year, with a lot of buyers not having the cap space. I’m not sure this is a move they make every year. Two years ago Doug Murray cost two second rounders, which is shocking in hindsight.

      That being said, the fact that there is a top 9 spot available to compete for is a good thing in the big picture, especially if they get lucky and one of the kids steps up. As you point out, this roster is already good enough for the playoffs without any changes.

      • krob1000 says:

        Agree the price was crazy good …so it may cost more…still means though that there is nothing needing immediate replacement relative to last year with respect to Vanek. I think Pareneteau will surprise if he is allowed to focus on offense…..that is the key though becasue MT quickly learned to dislike guys like that in both Briere and Vanek.

        • Phil C says:

          I agree that Parenteau could replace Vanek. I worry how he will get along with Therrien, but I guess we’ll see.

          I haven’t seen a lot or Parenteau, so it will be interesting to see how he fits in. He seems to be more of a playmaker so he may not fit with DD. Plekanec or Galchenyuk might be a better fit as his centre.

    • The Canadiens were a good team in a poor Eastern Conference, having Vanek in the lineup from Oct-April would have made the Canadiens a great team in a poor Eastern Conference. His goals won’t be missed, but they sure would have made the season a lot easier to handle considering every game the Habs played looked like a dogs breakfast after eating yesterday’s horse manure. 🙂

      Shane Oliver
      A Little fun during the Intermission
      Brandon Predators End Season Video

    • Loop_Garoo says:

      The biggest thing that Vanek brought was depth and the threat that he could score at any time, that opened things up and changed the complexion of the game a bit.

  18. zephyr says:

    I see Hamilton a few times each year & imo pateryn is the best of the 3 d prospects there right now. he was poised, played with some physicality last year, he could move the puck & he has a great shot. I saw him pound the crap out of some tough guy last year too. he’s older but so what? maybe the other guys need a bit more seasoning to reach their potential. potential doesn’t win games. tinordi is going to make his living by being a josh gorges-type dman only with great size & toughness. he’ll complement a guy like subban if he can play reliable def.. beaulieu is a great skater but he often fizzles bringing the puck up ice. it seems to me he needs to add some muscle & finish to his game & he could be great.
    as for captain, what do we really know? nothing. we’re not in the dressing room. they’ll decide because they know.
    I don’t think anyone here has seen sekac play so it’s funny how some people think he’ll be in the top 9 fwds. I read that he was the best player in the development camp but bournival wasn’t there & devel. camp is no guarantee. be nice to see what these guys can do in the exhibition games.
    mb & mt know what they’re doing.

  19. Forum Dog says:

    Lot of talk the last couple of days about Habs depth and where guys fit. Got me digging a bit deeper into Sekac’s stats and I was a bit surprised by his production against his peer group. He flamed out in NA early on, but his production as a U18-U20, both in the Czech and at the International level was pretty good.

    2007-2008 (as a 15 year old in the Kladno U18 program)
    Regular Season = 45 games, 15 points (6g, 9a)
    Playoffs = 3 games, 3 points (2g, 1a)

    2008-2009 (as a 16 year old in the Kladno U18 program)
    Regular Season = 46 games, 87 points (38g, 49a)
    Playoffs = 5 games, 6 points (3g, 3a)

    Between 2009-2013 (as a 17-20 year old) he tried his luck first in NA (the OHL’s Petes and the USHL), and then against men in the KHL and Czech SL. His only real success was as an 18 year old in the USHL. Internationally against his peer group however he put up the following numbers:

    34 games, 20 points (12g, 8a)

    He also had a short stint in the MHL (Russian Junior League) where he scored 8 goals (10 points) in 6 games as a 19 year old, before jumping up to the KHL for the first time.

    All meaningless when it comes to NHL translation, but it shows that he has played just about everywhere, and has usually ended up succeeding on some level. And against his own age group he has shown he can be top player. That Kladno season as a 16 year old is very impressive…..

    Here’s hoping he can force his way into the lineup.

  20. HabinBurlington says:

    For Canadians on this site, and specifically fans of the CFL, this weekends Labour Day Tilt could really come down to labour indeed.

  21. 24 Cups says:

    At the top of the list and with pretty elite company. Is this the guy who can replace Vanek’s lost production?

    24 Cups

  22. Ozmodiar says:

    It’s gettin’ late, west-of-bellevilleans. The clock is tickin’…. What’s the plan??

    I’m sure most of you have it figured out by now. What’s it gonna be???

    1) C.I.
    2) Gamecenter (+ a little dns / ip trickery to avoid blackouts)
    3) XBMC / VLC
    4) Hockeystreams
    5) wait ’til the petition bears fruit
    6) screw ’em!! will watch only 32 games.

  23. HabinBurlington says:

    It is just crazy how numbers like 1.4 Billion are normal numbers nowadays in pro sports. NFL looking at 1.4Billion per season with Direct TV, this to go along with ESPN’s 1.9billion, Fox’s 1.1billion, CBS’s 1billion and NBC’s paltry 950Million per season.

  24. HabinBurlington says:

    A decent read on the recent goaltending success of Quick and the technique he uses. Also rumours that Flyers are inviting both Penner and Malone to camp, would seem like a fit.

    • 123456 says:

      I enjoyed the read on Quick’s technique. I’m a youth goalie coach and have not even considered because the kids are too small to make it effective.

  25. Cal says:

    Moved to a better location

  26. on2ndthought says:

    I don’t see Markov struggling with media attention. He is glib and funny. It also seems to me that the captain really doesn’t get more media attention than any other player (Gio WAS such a pro at interviews though, reminded me a bit of Kirk is work).

    “a cannonading drive”

    • HabinBurlington says:

      It does help now that they aren’t repeatedly asking him about his knee.

    • Just a Habs Fan says:

      Gio was so so boring with his pat answers….obviously……and …for sure was his main words. How can anyone think this guy was anything approaching a good speaker or captain. No emotion…clitches spewing out of him non-stop

    • Ozmodiar says:

      He has a sense of humour but is still quite taciturn. There are times when a captain has to face the media when things aren’t going well. Times when a wry smile and “no comment” won’t cut it.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      I don’t think he’s incapable, just maybe unwilling to deal with it.

      I know a very, very talented guy in an organization I used to work for. He’s a supervisor of a very high-skilled technical group, and acts as a manager when necessary, as a stopgap, but reverts to his supervisor role when a new manager is hired, gladly so. He just doesn’t want to deal with the Directors and VP’s, doesn’t want the aggravation, having to attend lengthy regular meetings when a lot of time is wasted. He’d rather do his job very well. So he allows a less-qualified person to be hired as manager, does his own job and leads his group very well, their work is done superbly, until the manager blows up, is let go, and he returns, steps up to clean up the mess and right the ship, until the next manager is hired and he can step down again.

      I can see Andrei being that guy, able to lead the team, but unwilling to deal with the interviews and marketing side of the job.

  27. rhino514 says:

    My thoughts on the captaincy are this:

    It´s not that important. And, yes, the habs don´t have an obvious candidate.
    The thing one has to be careful about with the captaincy is that some players will feel the load of its responsibility too much and it will affect their game. That´s why I am usually in favour of a veteran player, who isn´t necessarily a prolific scorer on the team, being a captain.
    So, for example, while I like the image of Pacioretty as captain, he is the kind of guy who needs to be loose in order to get out of his mini-slumps (though he isn´t an inordinately streaky player, credit to him). I think Markov would be great, but he would hate having to answer all of those nonsensical questions postgame.
    Though he isn´t touted as a favourite, I think Desharnais could be a good choice. He is at ease talking to the media, and he could do so in both languages. But I´m not sure he would be accepted by all of his teamates as being The Guy.
    I could see it being Plekanec by default; he´s really too quiet and private to be a captain, but only he and Markov have unquestioned respect on the team.
    They really don´t have an ideal guy. Me, i would have alternating captains for a season. That would be my solution, which many on here I am sure would not like.

    When I think of Gionta´s departure, I always a have a cringe reaction; I realize they did not have room for him with the cap situation, and actually am happy Bournie and Andrighetto will have opportunites, but a guy who can score around twenty goals AND shadow the opponets top players is an extremely valuable commodity. I fear his absence will cost the habs dearly, especially come playoff time. Yes, he only had one goal in the playoffs, but he was clearly given primarily defensive assignmnets. Note how his plus minus figures are always positive when playing against top forwards, even when he doasn´t score. Note also how remarkable of a player Plekanec is, when he is given similar responsibility and still manages to pot twenty plus goals and contribute offensively in the playoffs.
    I wouldn´t bet on Gio getting safely over twenty goals in Buffalo if he isn´t given as much heavy responsibility as he was given this past year. He was also a good, if unspectacular, choice for captain.

    • Cal says:

      You worry too much over “I’ll shoot it right at his chest; that will rattle him” Gionta. His inability to score when given ample opportunities to do so against the Rangers combined with his age sealed his fate.
      The Habs are a team on the upswing that is transitioning to its youthful core. Will he be missed? Not so much, basically because of the improvement in team D, with Gilbert and Weaver bringing experience and depth and the youth in Pateryn, Tinordi and Beaulieu knocking hard upon the door.
      Can the Habs contend right bleeping now?
      2 keys to this puzzle are Eller and Galchenyuk. If both take flight this season, look out.

      • Loop_Garoo says:

        There is no question that Gionta has faded over the last 2 years, but when you lose your teams #2 even strength goal producer, you will notice it. Gionta had some really rough stretches last year, but still produced significant offense for the team. Definitely Eller and Galchenyuk are the keys though, and if Bourque can get back to his 20 goal form, that would be huge.

    • Habfan17 says:

      As much as I respect Gionta for what he did for the Habs and the way he did it over the years, he was not the player he once was.

      His job was to shadow the top players and he was not able to do that this past season, nor could he get away from checkers when he carried the puck. His speed was a non factor and with his injuries, so was his shot! He was out muscled and pinned in his own zone too often.

      He was one of my favourite players, but I have to accept that he was not the player he once was. I thank him for his time in Montreal and wish him well in Buffalo. At this point, he is a mentor to a team a few steps behind where the Habs are now in their development, or a depth player for a true contender like L.A. or Chicago.


  28. Habfan10912 says:

    Canuck fans will soon discover its much more difficult to get back into the playoffs in the West then it would be if they were in the East despite what this author thinks.

    • Cal says:

      Hey, Jim.
      Signing Miller was a D’oh! move. Bonino and Sbisa was a great move. Right now, Bonino is becoming better than Kesler, who is regressing.

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        Replacing Ryan Kesler will be a tall order, the only way Nick Bonino can do so is by being healthy and playing more games, a problem for Ryan lately. Watching him play, I’d constantly be struck by the mix of effort, speed, snarl, toughness, skill, lethal shot, faceoff reliability, defensive highlight reel plays, … He and Kevin Bieksa are the two players on the Canucks I wished were Canadiens.

      • goaliehabsfan says:

        Watch for Kessler to have a big year. He’s healthy and has been doing lots of good things in the gym. Combine that with a new team with a better dressing room and I think he’ll be close to a career season.

    • Good Morning Jimmy, Canadian teams in General are looking a tad sparse. Without playing a game in 2014-15 I see all but Montreal in the running for Eichel/McDavid jerseys on the back. Going to be a another fun season of ripping Canadian fans.

      Shane Oliver
      A Little fun during the Intermission
      Brandon Predators End Season Video

  29. Habfan10912 says:

    Good morning all. The Blues unveil their new Uniforms. Looks a lot like the old ones.

  30. Un Canadien errant says:

    Review: “Game Misconduct”, by Russ Conway

    “Game Misconduct” is a book that I’ve always had on my ‘To Read’ list, and finally got around to this summer. It is based on the “Cracking the Ice” investigative series written for the Lawrence (MA) Eagle-Tribune by journalist Russ Conway, which outlined many of the crimes perpetrated by Alan Eagleson while he acted as head of the National Hockey League Players’ Association and concurrently as a player agent. It is an outrage to read, and like many similar books, leads you to wonder what if someone had acted sooner, asked the right questions, persisted in the face of abuse or stonewalling…

    Mr. Conway covered the Bruins from the late sixties and grew close to a few of the players, notably Bobby Orr. In 1990, the members of the Cup-winning 1970 team held a reunion to which he was invited, and during that event spoke to a few players who had tales of being done wrong by their team, the league, their insurance providers. A great many were suffering physically, mentally and financially due to past injuries, poor or no health insurance coverage, and pitiful pensions. All of it seemed outlandish, and he decided to do some digging.

    In broad strokes, he found Alan Eagleson to be in a perpetual conflict of interest while acting concurrently as a player agent, head of the NHLPA, agent for coaches or management personalities, and promoter of international hockey tournaments, to say nothing of his close relationships with NHL owners. For example, he needed NHL permission to use their players to stage Canada Cups, so was hard-pressed to drive too hard a bargain during negotiations for collective agreements. The players he represented as an agent would sometimes have different goals and interests than the rank and file NHLPA member. His cozy relationship with Bill Wirtz of the Chicago Blackhawks, and the fact he represented their GM Bob Pulford, meant he couldn’t go to the wall for NHLPA members who needed their association’s support in claims against the Hawks.

    And so on, the book is a litany of dereliction of duty, mismanagement and misappropriation of union funds, opaque or secretive bookkeeping practices, outright stealing from certain players, questionable negotiation decisions when bargaining against the owners, such as the failure to obtain free agency for his members, or to obtain any concessions from the league in order to agree to a merger of the WHA and NHL, which severely hampered the players’ earning potential by curtailing demand for their services. Mr. Conway follows the trail by speaking with players who’ve been wronged or duped by Alan Eagleson, and by examining whatever documentation is available, which is precious little. Mr. Eagleson would delay, deny, browbeat, insult, and otherwise frustrate anybody who asked pointed questions, who would demand to see the books.

    A lot of players come across as pathetic figures, broke, in debt, desperate, and who accepted pitiful settlements from the league and its in-house insurance companies. Mike Milbury, for once, is the good guy, who perpetually demanded answers and transparency from the head of the union, although he was never satisfied in this area, until a criminal investigation was launched in the U.S.

    Others who don’t come off very well are our own RCMP, who dragged their feet during the entire investigation, sometimes failing to cooperate with the FBI or other jurisdictions. Mr. Conway makes a point of reminding readers of the retinue of gladhanders and political hacks Alan Eagleson accumulated during his run, and how political forces may have steered the ship rather than a search for justice.

    The Canadian sports press also takes a beating. Mr. Conway uses their own quotes to hang them, as it were. The reluctance of Canadian journalists to take on Alan Eagleson, to tell the story of the investigation, of the facts being revealed, is partly due to the myth of the man, how he took on the Commies in ’72 and by gosh beat them, and how he represented Bobby Orr, and how he took on NHL owners and won, by forming a players’ union, where Ted Lindsay and Doug Harvey among others had failed. Alan Eagleson was also a good source of material for them, and he wasn’t above using NHLPA funds to wine and dine them to curry their favour.

    Red Fisher of the Montreal Gazette takes a specific beating, having been an investor in an Eagleson-Orr venture which was foundering. Mr. Fisher received a $15 000 cheque to indemnify him, vastly more than his investment stake was worth at the time, with the understanding that he’d not speak ill of the NHLPA boss. This is a grave conflict of interest for a reporter, to be in a business partnership with one of the major players of the world he’s supposed to cover, and it’s difficult to understand how that came to be. Certainly Mr. Fisher was taken aback when contacted by Russ Conway on this matter.

    Ultimately, among many other transgressions and highly questionable practices, Mr. Eagleson is convicted of fraud for funneling money from Canada Cup rink-board advertising revenue to a personal Swiss bank account, and trying to cover his tracks later by attempting to return the money and falsify invoices when the heat was on. The galling aspect of this is that it’s probably the tip of the iceberg, one of the few times he stole money from the players where there was a paper trail, where he got caught. The many estates and mansions and jet-set lifestyle of the man don’t speak of an executive who lives on his paltry pay and commissions.

    Actually, the thing that really galls is his repeated assurances to anyone who’d listen that he never made a penny off international hockey, that he did it all for love of country and the game. The double-billing for office space for Hockey Canada and the NHLPA, the lavish, undocumented expenses, the sinecures for his family, all speak otherwise.

    This is an eye-opening work, which frustrates the reader at times. Without making a direct comparison, I often felt like I did when I read Stevie Cameron’s “On The Farm”, and was frustrated that there were so many ways and opportunities to collar this guy but they kept being wasted. Another book which came to mind was Jon Ronson’s “The Psychopath Test”, and how it deals with the Hare Psychopathy Checklist. Mr. Eagleson does check off many of the boxes, notably being inappropriately profane, charming, manipulative, irascible, devoid of empathy, among other traits. I had to wonder while reading Mr. Conway’s book whether Alan Eagleson is not in fact a sociopath.

    I will recommend this book, if only to give prospective readers a good background on why and how the NHLPA has come to have such an adversarial stance in its dealings with ownership. The players have not only been underpaid and bullied throughout much of the history of the NHL, but its union was actively subverted, criminally so, by ownership, and no one had ever been made to pay for this. Bill Wirtz’s son Rocky now owns the Blackhawks and offers up the ludicrous puffery that the team isn’t profitable, has never been profitable, after all these decades, and with a salary cap, public funds to build and operate his stadium, and his owning the station he sold the local TV rights to, as well as the liquor distributorship that hold the contract for the arena.

    So yeah, a not-quite-enjoyable read, more of an engrossing one, if you have the stomach for it.

    • Marc10 says:

      You took the words right out of my mouth. Alan Eagleson’s bio reads like a sociopath’s resume. I don’t know if I have the stomach to read this one having dealt with the odd wanker of that ilk in the course of business. The irony is you’d imagine pulling this kind of stunt on a hockey player would be a high risk enterprise, but the allure of high risk high-jinx seems to attract the enterprising sociopath parasite like a moth to a flame. Seems like the Eagle was just unlucky he ran into a dying breed; an actual investigative journalist.

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        Russ Conway goes out of his way to thank his employers, the owners of the Eagle-Tribune, for their support of his efforts. I don’t really know what reporters are faced with nowadays, beside what we generally know about shrinking budgets and the pressure to produce clicks and sales. But even with that in mind, I’m regularly dismayed by reporters who never lift a finger to uncover any stories, but rather attend press conferences, gorge themselves on the buffet, but grandstand during the question period by asking “tough questions” they could just as easily have phoned in.

        The Mount Polley mine disaster is one such incident. The warning signs have been around for years, nobody in the media did an in-depth feature on how such companies were failing the public and reneging on their promises, but now it’s supposed to be a great scandal, even the government wants to get to the bottom of this to ‘ensure it doesn’t re-occur’. I want to barf when I hear this.

        It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd

    • AH says:

      Hi UCE, great post, reading it I was reminded of how I felt reading ” Net Worth”, unbelievable how the players were and have been totally screwed by the owners and that crook Eagleson for years, sociopath?, totally, IMO.

    • on2ndthought says:

      My first day waiting at an upscale, uptown bistro in TO, I had the mischance to have Eagleson sit in my section. Total dirtbag, would have made a fine slaver.

      “a cannonading drive”

  31. The Juice says:

    @haloracer Bruins did NOT improve via Thornton trade

  32. Louisville says:

    Wow, wow, wow. There are those who would trade PK and keep Markov. Heehee. PK is Geoff Molson’s bread ticket for the next 8 years. He had to explain this to MB elst the arbitrator would have come back with the 1 year deal and the certainty that PK would be gone to TO or Boston in 2 years time. We are really lacking some brain power here tonight. Let’s blame it on the warm weather.

  33. Say Ash says:

    Breaking Bad looking like the 70s Habs out there

  34. Habitant in Surrey says:

    Broadcasting Notice of Consultation CRTC 2014-190

    Notice of hearing: 8 September 2014
    Gatineau, Quebec
    Let’s Talk TV

    Deadline for submission of interventions/comments: 25 June 2014
    [Submit an intervention/comment/answer or view related documents]

    The Commission launches Phase 3 of Let’s Talk TV: A Conversation with Canadians; Phase 3 is a formal review of the television system that draws on the issues and priorities identified by Canadians in Phases 1 and 2.

    It will include an oral public hearing that will begin on 8 September 2014.

    In this notice, the Commission provides background information on the Canadian television broadcasting system;

    -requests information regarding trends and future developments in television; and
    -discusses and calls for comment on various issues and, in some cases, possible approaches for a revised framework for the television system.

    The issues are organized according to three public interest outcomes:

    -A Canadian television system that fosters choice and flexibility in selecting programming services

    -A Canadian television system that encourages the creation of compelling and diverse Canadian programming

    -A Canadian television system that empowers Canadians to make informed choices and provides recourse mechanisms in the case of disputes

    • Habitant in Surrey says:

      I post this for the interest of the more thoughtful members of HIO that may want to follow or contribute to the CRTC’s September hearings.

      There are some very bright members within HIO, whom have exceptional essay skills and strong thoughtful opinions.

      The deadline was June 2014 for your own submissions, but there are organizations such as Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada/Federation of Francophone and Acadian communities of Canada ( ) that will be presenting briefs on behalf of national French language broadcast access issues.

      You may like to provide Your opinions to FCFACanada on the NHL’s black-out rules restricting the broadcasting of the Montreal Canadiens west of Quebec.

      They may, or may not, incorporate Your experience and thoughts on the subject into consideration of their presentations to the CRTC hearing. But I am sure if You present Yourself eloquently and intelligently, they are very interested in the subject of the effects to Francophones resulting from the NHL’s black-out rules.

      Especially, if You are a Francophone Montreal Canadiens’ fan living west of Quebec and are affected by the NHL national black-out restriction to follow Your Habs, they may appreciate hearing from You.

      National Head Office
      450, rue Rideau, bureau 300
      Ottawa (Ontario) K1N 5Z4

      Téléphone: 613.241.7600
      Fax: 613.241.6046


      • reddog24 says:

        Someone here mentioned that they had seen on another Hab site that Scott Moore of Rodgers was making an announcement regarding the Montreal broadcasts on Sept. 3rd. What was the site and has anybody else heard the same?Funny that nobody else has mentioned this as Moore is a Top Dog at Rodgers and is said to be a Hab fan.

  35. Habitant in Surrey says:

    The Financial Post; Christine Dobby (October 24, 2013) ‘CRTC announces details of TV industry review, plans public hearings for fall 2014’

    This is a bit dated, but it gives the initial premise of CRTC hearings starting in September on the future of broadcasting in Canada.;

  36. Habitant in Surrey says:

    Financial Post: Philippe de Montigny;

    ‘CRTC reimagines Canadian TV with proposals for pick-and-pay and a $30 cap on basic cable’



    Follow Me on Twitter: @HabInSurrey

    The Rogers NHL Habs Petition;

  37. Un Canadien errant says:

    I’ve always thought that players should vote for their captain. The role should be filled by someone who can lead his teammates, it’s not a fan-popularity contest.

    Having said that, there’s no obvious candidate to fill the role currently. Andrei Markov could be the guy, except that he’d struggle with the media demands, and he doesn’t suffer fools gladly. If he’d accept the role, it’d be great, no one can question him on talent or effort or experience or dedication. He wouldn’t be a warm and fuzzy captain like Trevor Linden or Yvan Cournoyer, he’d be more of the Chris Pronger mold, a do-as-I-say-or-else guy. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, leadership comes in many forms.

    I don’t think P.K. is ready. He has through his short career been loquacious, intentionally controversial sometimes. He has played the role of lovable buffoon, and we’ve seen his teammates be hard on him at first, then loosen the leash somewhat, but still try to keep him in line, and deflate his his ego, through humourous putdowns and pranks as seen on “24CH”.

    He can transition into a leadership role now, with his contract in hand and status assured, and also because a vacuum has been created by the departure of Josh Gorges, Brian Gionta, Francis Bouillon, among others. He can take a step forward, and instead of hamming it up for the cameras and the fans, can play the role of exemplar for the young defencemen coming up through the system. He has more experience, fewer veterans in front of him, he can be less the “Yes, Sir!” rookie type, and more of the “Watch me go” player.

    All of us who’ve been involved in team sports know this dynamic, how when you first join the team you’re supposed to fight for a roster spot, for playing time, you observe the veterans and do as they do. A couple of years later, you’re one of the boys, you know your stuff, and you try to take rookies under your wing, show them the way, you speak up when necessary. This is a natural, normal progression. Often, you don’t even think of this process, you’re just nudged in the right direction by the team dynamics. As a newcomer you can be the ingratiating jokester, but as you become a veteran you tone down that act a bit to lead your teammates, because that’s what is needed, you don’t necessarily need to be told.

    So Andrei would be a great transition captain, he can serve two or three years, and then the title can be handed off to the next player who imposes himself as the dressing room and on-ice leader, whether that is Max or P.K, or by then Alex Galchenyuk, Brendan Gallagher, Jarred Tinordi, etc.

    It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Pretty much agree, could see Prust and Max and Plex wearing letters also.

    • Habitant in Surrey says:

      I think You are seriously mis-characterizing Andrei Markov, Norm, –certainly He would not be the extroverted ‘warm and fuzzy’ type, but just as certainly He would not be a ‘do-as-I-say-or-else guy’ either.

      Markov is a lot like Greta Garbo, He’s the ‘I joost vant to be luft alone’ type.

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        Yeah, I didn’t mean in the menacing, thuggish goofball Chris Pronger way specifically, more in the type of leadership that is more hard-edged, as opposed to the conciliatory group-hug way. For example, I think Brian Gionta wasn’t the cheerleader type, but the kind of player who worked so hard, and had acquired so much respect around the league over his career, that you couldn’t help but follow his lead. If he said something it probably carried great weight, as opposed to when it came from a chatterbox like Jaro Spacek.

        I imagine Chris Pronger being much more direct in his communication style, and how he outlined his expectations. If a Dany Heatley or Terrell Owens had to be set straight, I wouldn’t be surprised if he literally grabbed them by the collar and talked to them right between the eyes. Not the kind of conduct that happens nowadays in the workplace, but is probably near-acceptable in pro sports. This is the kind of leadership that was lacking in the Miami locker room with Richie Incognito running rampant, someone to make it very clear that his bullsh!t wasn’t going to be tolerated.

        Andrei wouldn’t have the huge size and presence of a Chris Pronger, his menacing strength, but I’ve known leaders with very strong personalities who could intimidate and cut a person down to size just with a glare or harsh remark. I think Andrei would need to curtail this to a degree, when a rookie makes a mistake he’d not be in a position to toss in a withering remark, but if someone strayed, he’d be able to bring them back in line if necessary, just by his strong personality.

        It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd

  38. habsonly says:

    You the man Cournoyer!

  39. Hobie says:

    I personally believe Subban should be the captain, hands down. I think he has what it takes to throw the entire team on his back on many nights. He’s by far the most explosive player we have and I think the other players wouldn’t have a problem following his lead.

    I don’t believe there’s any racism around the Habs dressing room or organization for that matter. I find it hard to believe there’s any racism in the entire NHL. Maybe some rich owner like in the NBA who’s 80-years-old but who gives a crap about those guys anyways! When a coach, GM or owner sees a magnificent person like Subban they’d push all their chips in with him.

    I think it’s just a matter of him doing so much extra curricular stuff in front of the cameras aside from playing hockey. If you have any player walking around like they’re god’s gift to the earth, regardless of their skin colour, it’s going to rub some people the wrong way. Subban is a hot shot, let’s face it.

    Some people can take the lead from a cocky, full of himself, world class talent. Some can’t. In my astute (cough) athletic career I had no problem playing with an awesome player who shot his mouth off but backed it up.

    Subban loves the game and isn’t too disrespectful but when you make him capatain it could at times get crazy in the media and who knws what else.

    Like I said in my opening, I want him captain cuz he’s worth the risk.

    Hobie’s Habs Video :

  40. Mavid ® says:

    **sigh*** watching the Emmy’ bored..I miss hockey sooo much

    Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

  41. HabinBurlington says:

    Given all the different stories we have heard regarding the Stanley Cups travels with Cup winning players, I had never heard this before.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      The NHL has in the past threatened to sue Gordie Howe and Bobby Orr, and now wants to sue Krusty. Great job, Bettman.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Comments to this story are great.

      Milo MinderbinderBarry Petchesky

      The vomit wasn’t even the issue here. Gary Bettman just didn’t want another clown to be so closely associated with the Stanley Cup.

      Pornstars-for-WilbonBarry Petchesky

      What hypocrites. For years, the league looked the other way while the Islanders took a dump on the ice every night.

  42. Louisville says:

    I’m still amazed by the crap people write about PK. Patches over PK for captain. Really!? Patches may score a lot of goals but he is not a leader. He has little if any heart and is quite happy to let the opposing teams pound Brandon Gallager into submission while Galley gets him the puck so that he might sit in the slot and take shorts. Galley career will end before he is 30 because of the punishment he takes.

    Frankly I would have traded Patches for some really player WITH HEART. Patches has zero hockey senses, continuously says idiotic things to the media and is one of the laziest players on the team.

    PK…well he is all heart, never gives up, is one of the classiest interviews in the league and would make the ideal next captain of the Habs…unfortunately there are still too many neanderthals in this league and by the sounds of it on this blog that still cannot handle a black man with authority.

    • twilighthours says:

      Dude, I get it. Why all the PK slagging? But then…. why did you do all that Patches slagging?

      • Louisville says:

        Don’t like him. I think he’s a fraud. I guess time will tell, but I would prefer he was on another team. We could have got some serious assets for him, but MB is proving himself to be less than a visionary after all.

        • twilighthours says:

          We probably could have gotten some nice assets for him, but none of them would score 39 goals next year, I’d bet.

          • Louisville says:

            Maybe not, but I think that he would have been serious trade bait for that power forward that the HABS do not seem to be able to find. And as I said time will tell but it is pretty clear that he is a very one dimensional player. I suspect that his career will be marked by wide vacillations in his scoring output.

          • Louisville says:

            What do you think about PK’s chances of becoming a captain this season?

          • twilighthours says:

            He doesn’t look like a one-dimensional player to me. He played a ton on the penalty kill this year and was trusted late in games to protect leads. I think he’s becoming a 200 ft player. He might not crash and bang or do the things you expect from a typical power forward but he’s lightning fast and has that incredible release. We are lucky to have Patches, no doubt in my mind.

            Regarding Subban’s captaincy, I don’t really care or have an opinion on who I think it should be. But I doubt it will be Subban.

          • Louisville says:

            I guess we agree to disagree on this one. I really cannot see Patches as a 200 ft player. He makes less than smart plays that his opponents capitalize on from time to time and it drives me crazy that he makes little effort to get back in the play. Of course I’ve never seen him get benched for this. PK on the other hand who will never give up on a play…well we know what happens to him.

        • Loop_Garoo says:

          Patches has a huge heart and never quits, and trading him would profoundly wrong – headed. One of the NHL’s top goal scorers, we wouldn’t get enough back likely to replace that. Another note, what could it possibly take to make you happy with someone if you don’t want a top 5 scorer on your team? Especially one with such a lopsided contract.

    • scamorza says:

      Er what twi said . Uhm almost got killed by Chara on the stanchion . Came back to score 39 goals. To me that is not only heart but colones . He could have retired after that hit and many would have understood . Sure he didn’t play well against the rangers but then take a number, many didn’t . Sorry I agree with your comments on the PK bashing but think you are being a bit harsh here but at least we know where you stand 🙂

      come to Dorion suits where you get no….”hassoles” _ Yvon Lambert

    • haloracer18 says:

      Judging from what MB is paying Pacio and Subban, he is in total agreement with you. However I wouldn’t hesitate to trade Subban before the season, or even after a few games because I think the contract is too much for him to live up to. He has to be over twice as good as Hedman in the next three seasons in order to justify his salary, and that’s not going to happen. Hedman is probably going to be better than him, if not just as good. Rookie GMs will make mistakes, but if Yzerman is doing twice as well as Bergevin on signings, it means either he is doing a good job, or Bergevin is doing a poor job.

      The Markov signing was also a big headscratcher. He is slowing down and a huge injury risk, and didn’t look like he can last a full season anymore, which in this NHL is the norm for players over 35. Even the beast Pronger couldn’t take the heat and his brain is failing him now. Heck even Eckblad is suffering from a concussion and he isn’t even in the NHL yet. You have to let older defensemen go or sign them for less than the average. Fortunately they can trade Markov too – they could probably get a first rounder for him from a team like Detroit, maybe they would throw in Riley Sheahan. For Subban, it might be difficult, but I would target Edmonton as a trading partner, Nikitin and Yakupov. It would have been nice to keep Subban, but he just can’t handle that much responsibility. MB probably would have kept Gorges and Gionta if Subban signed for something reasonable.

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        What they’re getting paid is related to the agents they have/had, and the circumstances they signed under. The disparity in their compensation has nothing to do with what the GM or coaches think of them.

        Max was happy to accept a longer-term deal for the security it provided him and his new bride, after going through a trying time. P.K. and his representatives chose to drive a hard bargain to get every dollar they could out of the Canadiens.


        The 23-year-old on Monday signed a six-year, $27-million contract extension reported to be worth $4.5 million per season. His current deal still has one year to run, the extension to begin following the 2012-13 season.

        Pacioretty would have been a restricted free agent with arbitration rights at the end of the coming season.

        “This is something I wanted to get done,” Pacioretty said from his off-season Connecticut home late Monday night. “I think once the team knew I wanted to get it done, they jumped on the opportunity as well.

        “The biggest thing for me is, my career has been maybe plagued by instability and just to be able to call Montreal home for seven years is such an honour. I want to do whatever I can to help this team win and this will help me focus on that for years to come.”

        The instability, as Pacioretty calls it, hasn’t exactly been his fault. He suffered a fractured vertebra and a severe concussion in March 2011 when famously slammed into a Bell Centre stanchion by Boston Bruins captain Zdeno Chara.


        “It’s always been my mentality that I want to focus on winning hockey games right now. I think when you’re playing for yourself and playing for your contract, you kind of get away from the team mentality. So just being locked up for six years, I feel at home.

        “The organization has taken a chance on me and now my job is to prove to them that I can help this team win games and I hope to do that for seven more years.”


        “Max is one of the best players at his position in the league,” Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin told reporters Tuesday, according to TSN. “He’s got size, he’s a power forward, he’s got determination. For us he’s a key element in this organization. He’s shown Montreal fans that this is the place he wants to play for a long time and be successful, and that’s huge.”

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        On another subject, Chris Pronger’s “brain is failing him now” is as ridiculous a statement as can be, and has no bearing on the situation, and does little to support your argument that older defenceman aren’t reliable. Chris Pronger has a brain injury because he took a puck in the face.

        You might as well caution against Swedish goaltenders, because Pelle Lindbergh. Or that Marc Bergevin shouldn’t have signed Andrei because he’s a Russian defenceman, and we all know what happened to Vladimir Konstantinov.

      • twilighthours says:

        There’s a lot I disagree with in your post.

        1) Hedman skipped the bridge deal, something Bergevin forced PK into
        2) Hedman signed during the last CBA, and before the salary cap went up
        3) Subban would have been looking at a similar deal, perhaps worth a bit more, had he not been forced into the bridge
        4) Hedman will be better than Subban? I’ll flat out disagree with that one
        5) Yzerman is making better signings? Which ones? Morrow – minor signing. Boyle – could be good, nothing major. Bishop – that one could be a big overpayment. He’s got a small body of work to suggest he’s as good as last year.
        6) Markov – he would have gotten more if he had gone to market, that much seems clear to me. And if you let him go, who takes all his minutes?

        If you like Hedman better than Subban, that’s OK. But comparing salaries from today to even two years ago has been discussed at length on here, and shown to be not valid.

        • haloracer18 says:

          I would keep Markov for this season and trade Subban asap. Markov can be dealt at season’s end or if they’re out of the playoffs he can go at the deadline.
          The big thing that I see with playing with the cap game is how best to spend the money. And my take is, you have to pay the money for goals. Good defensemen are fairly common in the league, even good playmaking forwards. That’s why Boston improved after trading Joe Thornton. He isn’t the best goal scorer, and when it comes to winning, you need someone who can put the puck in the net. Toews is fine at $10M, because he scores in the clutch.
          As a defenseman, you have to prevent goals in key situations, and there are plenty of defensmen that can do the job. I only gave Hedman as an example because he’s in the same class offensively as Subban – if you want to nitpick about when the contracts are signed, then you lose the result as the benchmark. And it’s the result that matters, not when the contract is signed.

          As for the offense and skills that Subban brings, of course those are rare, but it still isn’t going to produce nearly as much as a goalscorer you pay $9M. D Keith at $5.5/season is also a much better situation than Subban, and it’s a more tradeable contract, even Suter at $7.5 is slightly better than Subban’s deal. Also consider what brings success in the rest of the league. Hampus Lindholm did quite well at 20 min/game as a rookie in arguably the toughest division in hockey. If you have the power up front, you can thrive with “good enough” on D. That’s what will make Subban’s contract untradeable. There are a lot of defensemen coming into the league who will bring salaries down.

          • Loop_Garoo says:

            When contracts are signed is not nit picking, it is a critical part of the comparison. As a general manager, trading PK would be a terrible, and probably career ending decision that would hurt the team deeply, and this contract will look like a great one in two or three years when PK is the 15th highest paid d in the league. As an owner, having that type of product to market is worth a LOT more than they are paying PK.

          • Loop_Garoo says:

            Also, PK’s contract is no where near un-tradeable. There would be 20 offers tomorrow if he were on the market.

          • Loop_Garoo says:

            Perhaps it would have been easier for me to say that everything you wrote here, I completely disagree with in at least 3 different ways.

          • twilighthours says:

            That’s a good way to say it, Loop.

          • timel says:

            I don’t often post on here, more of a browser, but this conversation is impossible to let slide.

            First off, comparing contract signings from different years is ridiculous. It’s like being upset about paying $100 for Apple stock, when it once cost $1. Every year, and every CBA provides different circumstances, and the value for the exact same skill set changes. Not to mention comparing Hedman and Subban is crazy , simply based on individual accomplishment and tangible evidence.

            Then look at the last 6 Stanley Cup winners. Each of which has had one very expensive defensman:

            Pittsburgh – Gonchar
            Chicago – Campbell
            Boston- Chara
            LA – Doughty
            Chicago – Keith
            LA – Doughty

            Without a doubt defenseman who can play defense are important. But a defenseman who can control the puck is invaluable. If you have puck control for longer periods of time, your defenseman don’t NEED to defend all the time. And then your forwards don’t have to backcheck all the time, which leaves them with more juice to control the puck more. With more puck control, any team can score goals. Josh Gorges is the perfect example. The only reason he had any value is because the Canadiens were not good at controlling the puck, specifically in their own end, which put their defenseman in the position of NEEDING to block shots, constantly.

            The NHL is about balance. You need an elite goal scorer absolutely, but without an elite defenseman, you are missing something. And the claim that good defenseman are all over the NHL is bogus. Very few players can control the play from the backend. That is why those are the defenseman that make the most money.

        • Loop_Garoo says:

          Again, have to say, when a contract is signed is the only way to compare. The ONLY contracts that you can accurately compare to Subban’s are the ones signed this year, and maybe last if you adjust for the cap increase. If you are going to compare value to contract, you need to work back, and PK’s value per dollar was way higher than the other guys you mentioned. And Hedman is a good defense man, no question, however he is not capable of controlling the game like PK, few are.

      • Loop_Garoo says:

        The problem is there is no way to measure “twice as good” and you do not necessarily get paid based on that kind of scale. The difference in the NHL between a superstar and average is so tiny.

      • Loop_Garoo says:

        The difference in pay between Patches and PK is completely irrelevant to what the Gm thinks of them, and the contracts were signed years apart. Subban signed at pretty much what most people thought he would, maybe $500k per year more, there was no chance he’ll get traded, and his signing for less would not have meant Gorges stays.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      I’ll keep re-posting this old post whenever I read tripe like this.

  43. Say Ash says:

    Uh, so five tsn channels now and they’re all showing the same thing. Impressive.

  44. Mavid ® says:

    and I am still waiting for someone to tell me what MOAR means..

    Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

  45. Paz says:

    No matter how bad Murray played, and I was all over him for that, his teammates knew that he “had their backs”, and that is valuable in an intimidating game like the NHL.

  46. piper says:

    If Tinordi doesn’t make the Habs this year then Murray will be dearly missed.

    • Commandant says:

      There is nothing…. not one thing, I will miss about Douglas Murray. Who was the worst player in the NHL last year of all players who got regular minutes (ie averaged over 10 minutes per game). He was quite simply attrocious.

      Go Habs Go!

      • UKRAINIANhab says:

        He sucked.

        • dr. schmutzdeker says:

          It’s been discussed over and over in the past and no doubt, he could be a real liability @ times. That said, I wonder how many of his team-mates shared the last 2 opinions when they were playing the Bruins as well as a number of the other more physical teams. (during the regular season)

          As the pipe guy suggests, his departure potentially leaves a gaping hole (if tinordi is not ready). Shades of the Gainey/Goat latter years with such intimidators as Campoli, Streit, Spacek, Hamrlik, Sopel, Markhov, Weber et al clearing the crease and providing the muscle on D.

      • Mavid ® says:

        Andrew is that you?

        Weed Wacker Grandma Smurf

      • frontenac1 says:

        Yikes! Worst in the NHL? What the heck did he do to you amigo? I know he had a tumble with Tiger”s ex-wife, but really? The guys on the team and Mike appreciated his presence in a few games.

        • Marc10 says:

          His +/- is pretty atrocious, but I choose to remember Crankshaft for the following:

          – Going toe to toe with Boston’s thugs
          – Taking on John Scott
          – Smashing Kadri
          – Keeping guys out of the crease

          There are no advanced stats for character. Hopefully Tiny picks up the slack. Something tells me we’re going to need it when we play Columbus, TB or when Kreider decides to start a brawl by running Carey again.

      • scamorza says:

        Well his better days are behind him for sure, as the penguins also soon realized. Did enjoy his hits though. The opposition either got creamed by him or flew by him the latter more and more unfortunately.

        come to Dorion suits where you get no….”hassoles” _ Yvon Lambert

  47. frontenac1 says:

    Hola Amigos! Le Chinois knows his stuff! Let The Lads pick the Captain. Saludos!

  48. on2ndthought says:

    All this talk about defensive depth and captaincy got me thinking that in a couple of years Tinordi might be a logical choice. He is cut from the same cloth as his dad, well respected, a guy who takes care of his teammates on the ice. He will play shut down minutes, late game situational D. I’ve read today (from Commandant) his outlet pass is good, he just produces zero offense.

    Oh well, I still say PK unless Markov wants it.

    “a cannonading drive”

  49. Chris says:

    While I usually like Jack Todd (I know, you shouldn’t admit such things on here), I disagree with the premise of today’s column equating Hockey Canada’s decisions regarding Josh Ho-Sang to those involving PK Subban.

    Let’s review things:

    Subban is selected to play for Team Ontario at the U17 World Championships. Seems like a good relationship with Hockey Canada so far.

    PK Subban was invited to the WJ camps and made the team, largely as a PP specialist, as an 18 year old. He was then one of the three returning players named to the team at 19, at which point he also served as one of the team’s alternate captains. Still no evidence of any strange treatment or bias against Subban during his junior career.

    At the senior level, Subban played for Team Canada at the 2013 World Championships. I can’t find a link, but I believe he turned down an offer to join the team in 2012. The good relationship with Hockey Canada continues.

    Then we get to the Olympics, where Subban was ultimately named to the team but didn’t see any ice time. This is where the whole “Hockey Canada hates Subban” notion arises. Subban was not able to displace Drew Doughty or Shea Weber, widely considered as two of the top-3 defencemen in the game and members of the gold medal team in 2010. To my eyes, that is pretty justifiable. Subban and Alex Pietrangelo are considered by most to be roughly equivalent, but Pietrangelo had the benefit of coming as part of an experienced pairing with Jay Bouwmeester. Again, pretty justifiable.

    You’re not going to choose P.K. Subban, playing his off-side, over Duncan Keith playing his natural position unless you are blindly loyal to the Habs.

    So that left one job that Subban had a realistic shot at, the last left defenceman spot. So do you choose Subban, an elite offensive defenceman and above average defensive defenceman, to play out of position, or do you choose between Dan Hamhuis or Marc-Edouard Vlasic, widely considered among the elite defensive defencemen in the game, playing their natural side?

    There is simply no controversy there…on a team that already had Keith, Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo and even Bouwmeester, the offensive duties were largely taken care of. Taking a penalty killing specialist is a natural decision.

    There was never any poor treatment of Subban. He has been given tons of opportunities by Hockey Canada, and will continue to do so barring injury.

    Equating what is happening with Ho-Sang to Subban is simply not justifiable, as there is nothing to complain about with Subban. Ho-Sang has a strained relationship with Hockey Canada, at least partially because he can’t stop himself from publicly criticising them. I think he probably should have received an invite, but I can understand HC not wanting to deal with the headache all the same.

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      It’c commendable that you always try to be as fair as possible (pointless, but commendable).

      However, when you ask:

      “do you choose Subban, an elite offensive defenceman and above average defensive defenceman, to play out of position, or do you choose between Dan Hamhuis or Marc-Edouard Vlasic”


      Subban versus Hamhuis or Vlasic?

      Even without my Habs blinders that’s a no-brainer.



      • Chris says:

        Not for me…I had both Hamhuis and Vlasic ahead of Subban, as they fit the role far better than Subban did.

        • UKRAINIANhab says:


        • Paz says:

          They played the whole tournament afraid to give up a scoring chance.

          Subban had no business there.

          Subban is a great player, but that was not suited to his style of play.

          • Chris says:


            And Team Canada has always placed an emphasis on getting the best role players on the team. Eyebrows were raised when Patrice Bergeron was on the 2010 team. Vlasic and Hamhuis were the elite penalty killers this year.

            But let’s not forget that Steve Yzerman, despite all his Stanley Cup rings and his Hockey Hall of Fame induction and status as one of the best to ever lace up skates, was himself left off numerous editions of Team Canada.

            The most striking was the 1991 Canada Cup. Yzerman was coming off a season where he finished 2nd in goals and top-10 in points. Yet Mike Keenan chose to leave him off the team because of his inattention to his defensive duties, taking grinders like Rick Tocchet, Brent Sutter, Dirk Graham and Shayne Corson.

            I’m sure Yzerman was thinking some pretty choice thoughts for people complaining about his treatment of Subban. 🙂

          • DipsyDoodler says:

            Chris – I think Paz was saying he had no business being on a team that played a pusillanimous style like Team Canada did. Like saying “Picasso has no business in a museum of mediocrity”.

            Canada was so much better than the rest of the field, they could have played any style and won. They chose to play negative.



    • Un Canadien errant says:

      There’s a little more to the story. At the 2013 World Championships, Steve Yzerman was the General Manager, and put together a team from the players of NHL teams eliminated from the playoffs at the onset. He left a couple spots open for some players who’d get bounced out of the first round, as is the usual practice.

      When the Canadiens were eliminated by the Senators, roughly everyone assumed that P.K. would naturally get an invite to play on Team Canada, he was the biggest talent made available. Steve Yzerman surprised most when he added Dan Hamhuis to the team, and then pointedly said he was satisfied with the composition of the team and wouldn’t make any further changes. He backtracked a day later and added P.K. to the mix, maybe due to the controversy, but it was not an imagined slight. P.K. flew to Europe a full day after Dan Hamhuis did.

      At the time, I posited that then-Buffalo Sabres coach Lindy Ruff had insisted on having the Canadiens star defenceman added to his roster. I also thought P.K. still had some detractors in the NHL, and would have to have a dynamite start to the next season, and to keep his nose clean to be included on the Olympic team. He mostly did that, but had a couple of games with highly noticeable brain cramps and squabbles with other players or officials, and I was pleasantly surprised that he was in fact named to the Olympic team.

      It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        Articles on Dan Hamhuis’ inclusion on the team, but momentarily ignoring P.K.

        Immediately after the Canucks were eliminated from the postseason, Dan Hamhuis, along with the Canucks’ swedish contingent and Nicklas Jensen, accepted the invitation to World Hockey Championships in Stockholm.

        Steve Yzerman and Lindy Ruff, Team Canada’s GM and head coach, respectively, must think highly of Hamhuis. With his arrival, Yzerman all but declared his team-building job complete, despite P.K. Subban becoming available

        Canada has room for two more skaters at the IIHF World Championship, but won’t expand the team unless a forward gets injured.

        Steve Yzerman intends to stay at a dozen forwards, eight defencemen and three goaltenders following Saturday’s arrival of defenceman Dan Hamhuis from Vancouver.

        “At 12 and eight, we really have no plans of adding a forward,” Hockey Canada’s executive director of the national men’s team said at the Globe Arena. “If we got an injury, maybe add a forward, but we’re comfortable with the group we have.”

        NOTE: This article is from May 11, and the Canadiens were eliminated by the Sens on May 9. Dan Hamhuis and the Canucks were eliminated on May 7.

        «I haven’t received an invitation so far to go to the World Championship » -P.K. Subban – May 11 on the Canadiens Twitter Account @CanadiensMTL

        And, he won’t. The question is, “Why not?”

        How can one of the three finalists for the Norris Trophy be so obviously blacklisted by Hockey Canada?

        We have received nothing but deafening silence on the subject from Steve Yzerman and the committee that is charged with putting together Canada’s representative at the tournament.


        Late last week Yzerman said he had no plans to add to his roster for the championship. He subsequently invited Vancouver defenceman Dan Hamhuis, turning his back in a not-so-subtle way on Subban who was equally available. Could it be that Yzerman honestly believed Hamhuis is a better defenceman than Subban. How many voters do you think gave any thought to Hamhuis when they were filling out this year’s Norris Trophy ballot?

        Last year Subban was invited to the World Tournament but suiffered a pre tournament knee injury in an exhibition game against Switzerland. Team Canada doctors said he would need at least two weeks to recover. At the time, Subban had no contract. Rather than risk further injury, Subban elected to come home for treatment. Is this why Hockey Canada is holding a grudge? And if so, they need to get over it.

        The Team Canada defence that Subban is not good enough to crack includes Hamhuis plus Stephane Robidas and Brenden Dillon of the Dallas Stars, Calgary’s T.J. Brodie, Justin Schultz of the Oilers, Philadelphia’s Luke Schenn, Carolina’s Jay Harrison and Brian Campbell of the Florida Panthers.

        It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Oh come on Chris, Jack Todd wants to call Hockey Canada racists, he just won’t flat out say it. He is always such class, never trying to create controversy in order to suit his agenda….

  50. The link between Captain and Organization is huge. You can’t go a season without having a representative. When trouble is brewing in the dressing room there has to be one voice represented by the team to clear the air.

    That voice since has forever been voted on by the team. If anything, the organization can nominate their choices and then team gets the vote. That’s about the only other option when this system is in place. You can’t have the team voting in someone who in a year or two may be gone (Pleks for example, but he’s my choice for now or Gallagher who I see leads by example on the ice, in the dressing room and with the media).

    For the sake of hockey drama PK Subban would be a great pick. SO many fans (NHL) hate that player it’s hilarious!

    Shane Oliver
    A Little fun during the Intermission
    Brandon Predators End Season Video

    • bwoar says:

      I’m pretty sure Gionta was named by management rather than voted on, and he did fine.

      I don’t think the C is as relevant as it once was. It means very little now that you have a game played by 19 year old millionaires. Recall Teemu Selanne offering to **buy** the #8 from Randy Carlyle, and Carlyle’s response, “you don’t have that kind of money, kid.” Well, they do now.

      From a fan point of view, it still evokes that old feeling where you think “this guy is THE leader, it’s up to him to help drive his teammates and keep things right in the room and off the ice”, nowadays I think the letters are more about team politics and the old-timey stuff is just nostalgia.

      I truly believe the players when they say that leadership has to come from everywhere, and Cournoyer pretty much confirms my suspicions with his comments about.

      EDIT: I’ll keep on saying it, I want to see Subban as the captain.

      • Chris says:

        Bob Gainey and Pierre Turgeon were also appointed captain, while scuttlebutt has it that management made the decision to appoint Koivu as captain despite he and Corson finishing tied in the vote (despite the team having made it clear that Corson was not the player they wanted as captain).

        I’m not sure whether Damphousse was appointed as captain or named by the team after taking over for Turgeon. I’m assuming he was voted by his teammates.

      • piper says:

        I thought I heard Max say today on 690 that Gionta was voted captain by the players.

  51. Hobie says:

    This talk about Pateryn being the best defenceman in Hamilton is a bit silly IMO. He knew that he was stuck behind Tinordi and Beaulieu and was most likely playing all year in Hamilton.

    Beaulieu and Tinordi were up and down all year from Montreal to Hamilton. No chance to settle in and get ready for the long haul.

    You take all three of those guys, tell all three of them they’re in Hamilton for the season, I’m pretty sure Pateryn would be the 3rd best defenceman in Hamilton when all was said and done.

    All three were called up last year and Pateryn was returned rather quickly. That should probably tell you what the Habs think of all three.

    Hobie’s Habs Video :

    • Cal says:

      Kind of tough to make an impression when you don’t see the ice.

    • Loop_Garoo says:

      Pateryn is in my view, unquestionably the 3rd best prospect of that group. He may have a long NHL career, but it it’ll be as a 5,6,7, defense man. Tinordi and Beaulieu both have the capacity to be pretty dominant players in their own way. Personally, I would have Beaulieu up with habs all year, and split Tiny and GP to give them a shot until one of them takes control. I would also trade Nygren the moment anyone offers me any type of draft pick for him.

      • Kooch7800 says:

        I am not sure Tinordi will be a top 4 D man. His offensive upside needs to develop or he will probably be a 5th or 6th D man as well. He struggles with the first pass out of the zone not unlike Gorges

        • on2ndthought says:

          Tiny may take a regular shift against guys like Lucic and Franzen, and play limited minutes against Kessel or Stamkos.

          “a cannonading drive”

        • Loop_Garoo says:

          His offensive game does not need to develop, it was never expected of him and he was not drafted for that. He will be paired with someone more suited to that role though in the long term. The outlet pass he struggles with is to a great degree an issue of experience and confidence, it will get better. Gorges had zero offense in his game and he was a top 4 d on this team for several years.

          • Kooch7800 says:

            Loop, there lies the problem though. Gorges isn’t a top 4 D man. He struggled getting the puck out of the zone much like Tinordi does currently. If Tinordi can’t improve in decision making and outlet passing he will have to hope to stay as a 5th or 6th D man.

            He is getting older so here is hoping he continues to improve. I think a full season in the AHL again with some call ups will help him

    • shiram says:

      I think for a D to make the top 4, they’ll have to have some decent puck handling and a good first pass.
      Tinordi won’t be asked to score or play like Subban, but he’s got to be able to handle the puck, and make the play go up ice.

      Pateryn, as of now and being a couple years older also, is better in that department.

    • Habfan17 says:

      I don’t know that I agree Hobie. In time, I would think that both Tinordi and Beaulieu would be better, they were drafted higher.
      On the other hand, we have seen that draft position doesn’t always matter, example, PK!

      Pateryn has proven to be a solid leader, and has consistently gotten better. I do think he is a 3rd pair defenceman, maybe a 2nd pair fill in. Both Tinordi and Beaulieu play the left side. If anything, I think Emelin could find himself being the odd man out by next season as Tinordi progresses. Especially since there will be a number of RFA’s needing raises, even with the cap going up.

      Yes, Tinordi did start the season in Montreal and ended up playing in the playoffs, where most say, due to lack of regular season games, he did okay but was exposed. Having him play the whole season as a leader in Hamilton may be better for his development. Beaulieu did look better with the Habs than Tinordi.

      Bergevin himself said in an interview that Pateryn looks ready, the rest is up to him and the other kids to earn their spot. It will be fun to see how they do!


    • Kooch7800 says:

      The games I watched last year Hobie in Hamilton Pateryn was the better of the three in every game I watched (only around 10 games). Tinordi was probably the worst of the three.

    • Chris says:

      Marc Bergevin said that he wanted his prospects to force his hand: if they went down to the farm, he wanted them to steal an NHL job.

      Tinordi had a very mediocre season. Beaulieu had a bad start, but got better as the season went on. Pateryn did exactly what he was asked to do, and put up a career season.

      In professional sports, the guy that does the job most effectively is usually rewarded. It might not happen in the short-term, when potential still overrides results, but it inevitably works out in the end.

      Maybe Pateryn regresses, and perhaps Tinordi finally takes a confident step forward and the discussion is moot. But if the trend continues in the same direction that it went last season, there is no way that Bergevin can continue to hold Pateryn behind Tinordi on the depth chart.

      So it will ultimately come down to what fans claim it should always be, a pure meritocracy. At 22, Tinordi is now at the age where potential means squat. He’s got to grab the bull by the horns and actually force his way into the NHL.

      Jarred Tinordi is at an interesting career crossroads, not dissimilar from what we’ve seen in the recent past with Ryan O’Byrne. The tools are there, albeit rarely at the same time, but he’s got to put it all together. He needs to continue to improve his skating, his positioning should improve naturally with game experience (which is why I am not an advocate for him being a 7th defenceman) and he needs to improve the speed at which he makes decisions.

    • Commandant says:

      Remember that Pateryn is nearly two years older than Tinordi, and more than 2 (And almost 3 years) older than Beaulieu. This makes a huge difference. He is further on his development curve.

      They have much higher ceilings than he does… but Pateryn played the best in Hamilton last year. Beaulieu struggled and looked unfocused at times in Hamilton… and Pateryn just outplayed Tinordi on that team.

      That said the other two will likely be better NHLers.

      Go Habs Go!

  52. crane says:

    Hope defence plays so well, that Weaver is last years Boullion replacement and not Gorges replacement.

    • Habfan17 says:

      Yes, I would love to see Pateryn earn the 3rd pair right side spot with Weaver subbing in. Having Markov with Subban, Tinordi/Beaulieu with Gilbert and Emelin with Pateryn/Weaver.


  53. Habitant in Surrey says:

    Pateryn has to play with an edge. I went to see the Bulldogs in Abbotsford. All the low-down on Pateryn was He was a one-dimensional defensive defenceman.

    Pateryn paired with Tinordi all game. The score was Abbotsford 6-0 over Hamilton, so not the best game to find positives.

    But Pateryn was flying. He looked to Me the most mobile defenceman on either team. Tinordi with His long legs got around the rink pretty efficiently as well.

    Tinordi so big making the pair look like Mutt n Jeff, even though Pateryn is 6′-2″ or thereabouts.

    The thing that I feel is holding Pateryn back, is He has yet to learn to play with an edge.

    I think Our Habs want more physicality from Pateryn.

    If Pateryn can muster that and show physicality at training camp I think He will make the Team. Otherwise back to Hamilton and future trade-bait.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      That was a knock on him going into last season was he needed to be more physical. He did step up in the hitting department and did have a couple of nice hits. He recognizes that is what the organization needs and that needs to be a part of his game. I remember hearing him talking about it in an interview and he was more physical last year.

  54. mark-ID says:

    Markov PK
    Beaulieu Gilbert
    Emelin Pateryn

    If Beau and Pateryn both make it this year, this would be quite the impressive group to have on defense. The top 4 can all move the puck well. All 6 of them have their own offensive touch also. Pateryn showed last year that he has a nice shot…..someone who can contribute offensively. Emelin too, when given the opportunity has shown some offensive flair.

    I’m not too familiar with the fenwick/corsi stats, but I have a feeling ours would look pretty decent with these 6 on the back end.

    “I think I may have found a way for us to get Griffey and Bonds, and we really won’t have to give up much” -Costanza

    • Hobie says:

      If Pateryn is better than Tinordi than he deserves to make the team.

      Two things though, he probably isn’t better and if they’re close and it comes down to it, Tinordi will stay.

      Commandant posted earlier that Tinordi’s ceiling is higher, which I agree with, He was a 1st round pick. He’s also played more NHL games.

      So I think a lot of fans love the diamond in the rough scenario, as we’ve seen with many of the prospects discussed here, but chances are very strong Tinordi is ahead of Pateryn on the depth chart.

      Weaver is also in the lineup ahead of Pateryn.

      So there is hoping for a certain lineup and then there’s the fact.

      The lineup in October will almost certainly be:

      Markov – Subban
      Emelin – Gilbert
      Beaulieu – Weaver


      Hobie’s Habs Video :

      • shiram says:

        Well there’s not much sense having a young guy (Tiny) sit on the big benches, Pateryn, being older and having a not so high ceiling could rotate in for Weaver once in a while, as a 7th D.

        We’ll soon know.

        • Hobie says:

          I just can’t see them telling Tinordi to go back down to Hamilton after he played in the playoffs in 2013, made the team out of training camp last year, played late in the season and was called up and on standby for the playoffs.

          Being sent back to Hamilton again would be quite the shock to the system for Tinordi and I could see the Habs avoiding that at all costs. Again, just my opinion.

          And yes my friend, we’ll see soon!

          Hobie’s Habs Video :

      • mark-ID says:

        This is true…Pateryn is definately behind on their depth list. But I have a hunch he will come guns a blazing in training camp. He was the Bulldogs best defenseman last year….he knows it, MB knows it. It is up to him now to prove he deserves a regular roster spot with the Habs…..I still think he might do it.

        Great problem to have, with so many of the young guys fighting for 1 or 2 spots in the lineup.

        “I think I may have found a way for us to get Griffey and Bonds, and we really won’t have to give up much” -Costanza

      • Cal says:

        We have nothing to tell us that Tinordi has more potential than Pateryn, given that Pateryn had injuries every time his number was to be called up for a look-see.
        Now that he’s healthy, we will all see what kind of player this 6’4″, 235 lb righty can be.

        • mark-ID says:

          He is a big boy alright. It would make it even sweeter, if he becomes a regular considering we got him from the Leafs!

          “I think I may have found a way for us to get Griffey and Bonds, and we really won’t have to give up much” -Costanza

        • Chris says:

          Agreed. Tinordi’s pitiful offensive performance at all levels is a big concern. Pateryn had that same concern around his game, but he enjoyed by far the best season among himself, Tinordi and Beaulieu last season.

          As for his size, Pateryn is 6’2″ and 220 pounds, or at least that is his listed size with both the Bulldogs and the Canadiens.

          • Loop_Garoo says:

            Tinordi’s offensive contributions are irrelevant in my view. That isn’t what is expected of him. He could score 0 NHL goals in his career and still be a very valuable piece.

          • Hobie says:

            Exactly, Tinordi can get 14 points and that would be considered an excellent season if he played well defensively. Nobody cares about his points.

            Hobie’s Habs Video :

          • shiram says:

            The expenditure of Gorges, being replaced by Gilbert would seem to indicate the Habs brass thinks otherwise.

          • Chris says:

            Loop: Offensive numbers come organically from a top-pairing defenceman. The ability to make strong outlet passes is good for 10-15 points alone, because the forwards will do the rest of the work.

            That is the concern with Tinordi: the puck is a hand grenade on his stick. I understand that he isn’t being called upon to get goals, but the pitiful points numbers in junior and the AHL point to a deeper problem. He makes bad decisions.

            Bad decisions with the puck means turnovers and increased defensive zone time. It means more of a physical pounding for the defenders as they try to get the puck out of the zone.

            I was not at all in love with the Montreal Canadiens when they iced all of Emelin, Gorges, Murray, and Bouillon or Weaver in the line-up. That is 4 of 6 defencemen that struggle with moving the puck adeptly, and it led to a lot of pressure in the Habs zone.

            This is what Tinordi continues to represent for me until he demonstrates otherwise. He’s got the size, but he’s not particularly nasty with it, at least thus far. In his stint at the start of the season, I was still unimpressed with his pivots and gap control. He was getting beat with speed.

            The raw skill was there, but the mobility and confidence were still not matching the body. From all that I saw and also heard from Hamilton, that didn’t change much. Tinordi didn’t force Bergevin to bring him up with his play last season. If it was a true meritocracy, his play should see him drop on the depth chart because he had so-so season while Pateryn had a very strong season.

            Tinordi can turn that around with a great camp and increased mobility, which should give him a smidgen more time that he seems to need to make decisions with the puck than guys like Subban, Markov or Beaulieu (who also struggled last season) need.

    • RetroMikey says:

      Pacioretty to be the next C?
      I don’t think so.
      The guy is always on the net worried what the reporters have to say about him.
      Not a leader in my opinion, focus on his game than whatt the media says about you Max.
      Choice is obvious….PK Subban with Prust and Gallagher wearing the A’s or even Weise.
      And it will be real disappointing if Beaulieu or Tinordi do not make the team…I would consider this 2 disappointing first round busts.

      “We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “

  55. Habitant in Surrey says:

    I was kindly invited to occasionally write on the objectives and progress of the Rogers NHL Habs Petition by Andre Leclerc of the RabidHabs blog

    I have turned down similar offers from Grantland, Sports Illustrated and Kukla’s Corner, but Andre gave Me an offer I could not refuse.

    All I can divulge of the contract is No ! it’s NOT in the 6 figure range.

  56. 24 Cups says:

    Ottawa just re-upped Anderson for three more years (yearly cap hot of 4.2M).

    24 Cups

  57. 24 Cups says:

    I notices some posters were wondering who wouldn’t make the final roster for Oct 8th. Right now, the Habs cap space is based on a 23 man roster which would include Beaulieu, Tinordi, Sekac and Bournival.

    Up front, the only player who might challenge one of the top 23 would be de la Rose or Pateryn. Another outer ring might include Nygren, Bouillon or Thomas. Regardless, the roster spots and cap space are all there and accounted for based on the signed deals that are currently in place. Nobody has to get cut or traded. Not to mention that the Hab bench would include Moen, Bournival and Tinordi (theoretically) which strikes me as being pretty decent.

    24 Cups

    • Cal says:

      Habs are finally starting to have depth. It will be nice to have a team where it’s tough to crack the roster.

      • Chris says:

        The deepest Montreal team in recent years was perhaps the 2008-09 Centennial team, and that team ended up imploding due to injuries.

        Depth is definitely nice. But Montreal is certainly lacking the game-breaking forwards necessary to be a true Stanley Cup contender.

        • Cal says:

          Actually, Chris, that team sucked big time, especially with its reliance upon Koivu, Kovalev and Kostistsyn.
          When Laraque was on the 1st line to start the playoff series against Boston, I had a very bad feeling. The Habs were swept. And Gainey saw the team in the room and saw it was broken into two.
          Thankfully, the clean sweep started back then, getting rid of all that dead wood.

          • Chris says:

            No, it did not. That was the end result, but on paper…just about everybody was raving about the depth of the 2008-09 Canadiens entering the season, especially considering the players’ most recent performance:

            A. Kostitsyn – 78 GP, 26 G, 53 PTS
            Plekanec – 81 GP, 29 G, 69 PTS
            Kovalev – 82 GP, 35 G, 84 PTS (2nd team All-Star)

            Higgins – 82 GP, 27 G, 52 PTS
            Koivu – 77 GP, 16 G, 56 PTS
            Tanguay – 78 GP, 18 G, 58 PTS

            Latendresse – 73 GP, 16 G, 31 PTS
            Lang – 76 GP, 21 G, 56 PTS
            S. Kostitsyn – 52 GP, 9 G, 27 PTS

            Begin – 44 GP, 3 G, 8 PTS
            Lapierre – 53 GP, 7 G, 18 PTS
            Kostopoulos- 67 GP, 7 G, 13 PTS

            Going into that season, many Habs fans were talking up the fourth line as being one of the best in hockey: Begin and Kostopolous provided grit, while Lapierre was a super pest with some surprising hands. Laraque was brought in as the enforcer that so many were sure that the Habs desperately needed.

            At forward, Habs fans were salivating at a roster that included as many as 8 forwards (Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Kovalev, Higgins, Koivu, Tanguay, Lang and the burgeoning power forward Latendresse) that could all score 20 goals. 7 forwards were coming off a season in which they had put up 50 points…that is some pretty astounding depth. Just about any NHL team in the league would kill to have 7 forwards with 50 points. Even the Blackhawks last season only had 4, the Kings had 2, the Penguins had 5 and the Bruins, whose team philosophy revolves around depth, led the way with 6.

            For depth, they had Max Pacioretty, Matt D’Agostini and the ever-useful Mathieu Dandenault to help fill in the gaps.

            The defence featured Markov, at the peak of his game, and Komisarek, who was widely being touted as one of the league’s most underrated defencemen. The second pairing had Roman Hamrlik with Ryan O’Byrne, the towering project defenceman that was the Jarred Tinordi of his Habs era. The third pairing was Brisebois and Gorges. Francis Bouillon and Mathieu Dandenault were the insurance policies.

            It is pure revisionist fantasy to suggest that people knew going into that season that the 2008-09 Montreal Canadiens would go as it did. The defence was not as strong as this year’s appears to be on paper, nor was Carey Price close to reaching his potential (as he has now done).

            But that was a VERY deep group of forwards, and there was no reason to expect that so many players would have their careers go off the rails in the same season. If you had taken a bet on that in Las Vegas, you would have gotten some awfully profitable odds.

    • Chris says:

      I really can’t see Sekac on the team until one of the veteran forwards inevitably suffers an injury.

      Right now, the forwards seem pretty set: Pacioretty, Desharnais, Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Plekanec, Parenteau, Bourque and Eller are all guaranteed to be top-9 forwards. That leaves Weise, Prust, Moen, Malhotra, Bournival and Sekac to fight it out for the remaining 4 spots and 2 spares. I suspect one of those spares still might end up being a tough-guy signed by Bergevin as we go into training camp.

      On defence, the top-4 (Markov, Subban, Gilbert, Emelin) look to be set in stone. That leaves Weaver, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Pateryn and Drewiske to battle it out for 2 regular jobs and the 7th defenceman job. I think Drewiske is a more natural 7th unless waived, and I think Weaver will get lots of playing time.

      The Habs absolutely can keep the losers of the job battles with the club, but I think Bergevin would rather see the kids playing every game than playing low minutes every 2nd or 3rd game with the big club.

      • Habfan10912 says:

        Chris, I think you’re right about a need for a game breaking forward. Am I over using my rose colored glasses in hoping/thinking Galchenyuk will become that?

        I would be shocked if Bergevin doesn’t add a heavy weight before the season starts. Probably a bit easier to find then the game breaking forward, huh?

        • Chris says:

          I think Galchenyuk CAN become that, but he’s got some work to do: his speed, balance and shot accuracy all have to improve significantly. He also has to become a little hungrier…he is too happy to stay on the periphery right now.

        • adamkennelly says:

          I hope you two are correct about the HW scrapper but I’d bet money against it…maybe one of the young-ins does the trick as a stop gap call up fix – along w/ Prust and Tinordi..might be all MB goes with.

  58. icemachine says:

    Can’t believe no one picked up Praplan late in the draft this year, sick goal from the Euro club Champions League that just started up

    53 points (19G) in 61 games with Battalion last year, looks like he will play the season for Kloten in the Swiss NLA
    “I can’t wait for the crowd, the noise, the energy in the building. I can’t wait to take that all away from them.”

    • Chris says:

      His draft stock almost certainly fell due to his lacklustre playoff performance: 2 goals and 4 points in 21 games isn’t getting it done. Given that he isn’t particularly physical and he’s a little undersized, I think he needed to have a big playoff to justify a team drafting him.

      • icemachine says:

        Definitely true, the playoffs hurt, and I wonder if the transfer back to Kloten on July 1st basically removed him from any consideration.

        • Chris says:

          I wouldn’t say he is removed from consideration…but teams are going to watch his development overseas and if he continues to improve, he will be the Sekac of some summer a couple of years from now.

          Since he is now 20, teams don’t need to draft him, so maybe interested teams were rolling the dice that nobody would draft him. This way, they get to keep an eye on his development and not have to waste one of their 50 contracts.

          That being said, I watched the entire North Bay-Guelph finals, and I honestly can’t remember Praplan at all. The only forwards for North Bay that were consistent threats were Nick Paul and Barclay Goodrow…other than that, their success was almost exclusively due to a stellar performance by their defencemen and goaltender. I was more surprised that nobody went after Goodrow, as he has good size (6’2″ and 214 pounds), decent speed and he’s got a nice shot. The Sharks managed to sign him before the playoffs this season, which was good timing as he improved his stock considerably with a very strong playoff run.

          • icemachine says:

            I caught a couple Battalion games in North Bay last winter, and Praplan looked to be the best puck mover on the team those nights, while Goodrow definitely had more of the finishing touch. Would have been happy to see either one play for the Bulldogs this year.

            “I can’t wait for the crowd, the noise, the energy in the building. I can’t wait to take that all away from them.”

  59. Hobie says:

    Article over on TSN about the Habs captaincy.

    Speaking with TSN 690 on Monday, Pacioretty said he’s had discussions with PK Subban regarding the Canadiens’ vacant captaincy and both players are prepared to step up and fill the void left by Brian Gionta.


    “We briefly touched upon being leaders and wearing letters potentially on this team, but at the end of the day everybody on the team wants what’s best for the team and if people feel like me or PK or someone else would be a good candidate for the captain then I’m 100 percent on board with whatever decision is made.”

    Hobie’s Habs Video :

    • Forum Dog says:

      Doesn’t shed a tonne of light on things, but is does speak the emergence of a new, younger leadership group. We don’t know what MTL’s social structure is like, but if Pacioretty or Subban are unifying forces within it, then they would make a great choice for captain.

      While I think Markov has the veteran presence and saavy to be a good captain on the ice, he may be a bit too aloof to be a great one off of it.

  60. crane says:

    Patches D.D. P.A.
    Gal. Eller Bork
    Sekac Plek. Gally
    Bournival Mal. Wiese

  61. adamkennelly says:

    how can MB justify having both Moen at $1.85M and Prust at $2.5M on the roster.

    answer – he can’t.

    Also have Malhotra, Bournival and Weise working on the same roster spots. something’s gotta give.

    • kerrgte says:

      simple – he’s bound by contracts for them both.

      Prust is beyond his useful days, and every GM in the league knows it. He can’t and never could score, and he’s now an easily injured player who can’t assume the role of anything more than attitude.

      Moen is also in the same boat.

      Remember – it’s a business bound by the law of contracts

    • Forum Dog says:

      MTL has 10 forwards with one way contracts. Moen and Prust are two of them. The guys most likely to not stick with the big club will be Sekac and Bournival, though I’d be shocked if the latter was sent down to Hamilton. If they go with 13 forwards (which they almost certainly will, it’ll be something like:

      Pacioretty – Desharnais – Parenteau
      Galchenyuk – Plekanec – Gallagher
      Bourque – Eller – Weise
      Bournival – Malhotra – Prust


      $1.8M on the bench ain’t great, but it’s not so bad either.

      If Sekac manages to stick (which would be ideal since it would bump Weise down to the 4th line), they can always send Bournival down, or try and find a way to trade Moen out. Be tough to trade him, but then again there might be some takers. Hopefully his head is right…..

      • adamkennelly says:

        you mean you can’t just cut them like the NFL???

        • Forum Dog says:

          lol – too bad eh?

          Honestly, I don’t think Moen is a huge liability at $1.85M. If he be restricted to 4th line duty, he can still be effective in a part-time role, spelling any of Bournival, Prust or Weise.

          • adamkennelly says:

            I don’t disagree but would rather not have 3 of almost exactly the same type of player in Weise, Prust and Moen.

            if Sekac makes the team you have all 3 of them + Malhotra + Bournival – looking for 4th line ice time.

    • veryhabby says:

      adam…of course he can justify them. At the time of signing them, they were good moves. How was MB suppose to know Prust would get injured and miss a lot of games. I still hold hope he can rebound this year.

      How was MB suppose to know that Moen would get a concussion? since then he has been a shell of his former self.

      But at the time of signings, Prust- really was wanted by many teams and it addressed a huge need of more size. And Moen- was a trusted and much used vet with size, so why not resign him.

      If you are asking to MB to guess the future…..

    • Cal says:

      Character costs money. Okay, okay, I’m clutching at straws here.

  62. crane says:

    Markov P.K
    Beaulieu Gilbert
    Emelin Pateryn

    • Forum Dog says:

      Barring some monumental upset, Weaver and Gilbert are likely to get regular minutes, and I’m betting that Beaulieu gets the most time of the rookies. Pateryn and Tinordi will probably get tastes here and there, but it won’t surprise me if they ride the bus for a good part of this season.

      Next season is when they will have full-time spots to compete for. Or be traded. Guys who are almost NHL ready command good value on the trade market, and MTL still lacks a bit up front.

    • veryhabby says:

      Crane….maybe that will happen if Weaver gets injured!

      To start the season MT will go with his vets. The kids will get ice time when they show they are better then the vets. Till then FOR THIS YEAR they play a few games here and there until injuries occur. They always do. And by end of season, the kids will get a good amount of games. But don’t be surprised if they all spend some time in AHL this year.

      Weaver/ one of the kids
      ? is our 7th dman. MB will decide at camp if the team needs a vet (Bouillon) or if one of the kids is better suited for that spot.

  63. Forum Dog says:

    I’m with Cournoyer’s comments on this issue, especially the idea that the players themselves need to decide. If they can hold a vote before the season and have in place by October, great. If not, no biggie.

    And his point on the role of the captain off the ice is absolute true. You need someone who engages with everyone and tries to bring everyone into the fold. I think that is the toughest thing for MTL right now. Their best on-ice players don’t necessarily have those qualities.

  64. kerrgte says:

    Yvan C was one of the most electrifying players of his time in the NHL. He was the “Roadrunner” because he was the fastest. and no one could skate with him.

    His comments on the capataincy are simply saying let the players decide whenever they feel it’s of importance. Have you noticed how mgt hasn’t said a word?

    Fans like us are not in the picture, and we have no real and tangible insights.

    Simply, let the players decide. I simply have no time for the silly bs that’s purveyed from people who live behind a bloody pc screen

    What’s of importance in what Yvan said is that teams are not what they once were. We have bloody free agency, the cap, and business school management thruout the league. (FEARLESS FORECAST – WATCH CHICAGO AND PITTS DECLINE AS THEY PAY THEIR STARS TOO MUCH). So, that tells us something. Teams will come and go – including les Canadiens. Why? Because it’s a business first and a passion second.


  65. shiram says:

    Wouldn’t it make marketing sense to have the Captain introduced at the first regular season games?
    The players can pick, and the Captain would be introduced then, with the torch passing or whatever else ceremony type thing they want to to with.

    I’m perfectly fine with them going into the season without a captain, but it seems like an occasion they would not want to miss.

  66. Un Canadien errant says:

    François Parenteau with a good article on Jérémy Grégoire, and why he ‘fell’ to the sixth round of the draft in 2013.

    He explains that Jérémy was always a first-grade prospect, but he struggled in his draft year playing for the Saguenéens, to the point where he asked for a trade at the Christmas break. This may have set off alarm bells in the scouting community, that this kid might be a little too big for his britches.

    The author continues that the trade to Baie-Comeau was ultimately beneficial though. His first LHJMQ season saw him pick up 30 points in 61 games, but he was stuck at 15 points in 35 games the next season when he asked for the trade. He finished with 17 points in 27 games for the Drakkar, and blew up in the playoffs with 16 points in 18 games.

    One reason for his lack of success in Chicoutimi may have been a rift with his coach, who no longer is the Sags’ head coach and is back in the CIS with the UQTR Patriotes this season.

    The comments to the article also provide some insight. One poster explains that the olympic-dimension rink in Chicoutimi didn’t suit his physical style. While he has improved his skating this season, the larger ice surface supposedly didn’t play to his strengths, and he is much better suited to a North American-sized rink.

    Another commenter goes further than the article’s author, and states that the coach plainly didn’t like him, and didn’t rely on him overly. Of course this can make all the difference in the world, in terms of the player’s confidence, and the minutes he receives and situations he plays in (powerplay, offensive situations)l.

    So Jérémy Grégoire, who was headed for a disastrous draft year, being left off the NHL’s Central Scouting mid-season prospect rankings, managed to save his season and ended up ranked as the 79th North American prospect by Central Scouting. He was drafted 176th overall by the Canadiens, and last season was a point-a-game player.

    It’s somewhere between a toothless attack and a vicious homage.–Paul Rudd

    • veryhabby says:

      Time will tell. I always want the most of our prospects, but then expect the least from them. (guards my heart!)

      Let not forget that both LL and Bournival were above a pt/game in the Q. And we know where they are now a few years later.

      Maybe its a 50-50 chance he ever makes the NHL. We’ll know in a few years. Obviously I hope he does.

  67. JUST ME says:

    Yvan Cournoyer. Top 5 best skaters all time in my book !

    I feel that this squad should be confident enough and know who would be the perfect fit for the captain job. Do not mind who it is but as long as the players get to choose it`s fine by me. Do not believe in alternate captains though…

    As much as i find that big Georges Laraque is a colourfull individual, i am really starting to find him pityfull. Now he regrets having done the ice bucket challenge and takes back his association to the cause because to cure Lou Gherig disease they would have to test products on animals so … Everyone is entitled to their opinion but BGL `s are sometimes if not croocked at least far fetched.

  68. Hobie says:

    Please just pick a damn captain. I really don’t want to hear about the entire process of alternating captains or no captain for the entire season.

    Hobie’s Habs Video :

  69. UKRAINIANhab says:

    Was Subban the captain of Belleville ever?

    • Chris says:

      Never the captain, but he did serve as an alternate captain in his final OHL season, as well as an alternate captain on Canada’s World Junior team as one of the three returning players to the team that season.

  70. GrosBill says:

    I am sure someone must have mentioned this on here in a previous thread already. Does anyone know anything about the guy other than he is MOAR big?

    “The #Habs are bringing in more size to their rookie camp as 6’6, 236 lb winger Tyler Hill (Ottawa, OHL) has been added to their invite list.”


    Matkov is my choice, until subban comes of age.

    Although patch could be a solid captain. Why give him the c when in a few years you want subban to have it. you wont want to take it away from or use that as leverage next xontract. Give it to subban now or give it to markov and wait 3 years when markov retires

    I know tony Marrero hates m arkov and constantly puts his play down. But hes the best choice.. not only that hes going ro be top 3 d man in points in habs history after retired. Go check out his numbers hes there with all the habs legends. And hes mentored subban and emilin and now guys like galchenyuk and sherbak.


  72. HardHabits says:

    In other words. Not Subban.

  73. Landof10000lakesHab says:

    Beep – beep…

  74. SarahMc33 says:



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