CBA talks turn sour

Bettman

This was pretty much inevitable, but the differences between the NHL owners and the players in their negotiations for a new collective bargaining agreement got its clearest articulation in the remarks by both Gary Bettman and Don Fehr following Thursday’s talks in New York.

In that session, the players presented their objections to the owners’ proposed system of revenue sharing.

Asked how far apart the sides are, Fehr responded, “There’s a meaningful gulf there.”

Bettman said, “We obviously have a wide gap to bridge on a whole host of issues.”

With both sides acknowledging after the two-hour meeting that they are looking at the next CBA in very different terms, the chances of the season beginning as scheduled in October seems dimmer now than at any time since discussions began last month.

And while Fehr has said on numerous occasions, and again on Thursday, that there’s nothing legally preventing the players from going to training camp and starting the season without a contract, and “if there is a lockout, someone has to choose to do that,” Bettman’s remarks seemed to lean toward making that choice.

“I re-confirmed something that the union has been told multiple times over the last nine to 12 months,” Bettman told reporters. “Namely, that time is getting short and the owners are not prepared to operate under this collective bargaining agreement for another season, so we need to get to making a deal and doing it soon. And we believe there’s ample time for the parties to get together and make a deal and that’s what we’re going to be working towards.”

Asked if Sept. 15 is a hard deadline, Bettman responded, “Our efforts are going to be devoted to trying to make a deal.” He then reiterated that owners have no desire to operate under the current CBA.

But NHL spokesman Frank Brown said in an e-mail to Eben Novy-Williams of Bloomberg News that it was “not wrong” to interpret Bettman’s remarks as implying the NHL would lock out its players without a new deal. Brown stressed, however, that Bettman never referred directly to a lockout in his remarks. But the implication was clear.

(In The Gazette, Pat Hickey writes that Bettman’s legacy as commissioner could likely be one of work stoppages.)

In the talks Thursday, the NHLPA made a presentation directly related to the owners’ proposed revenue sharing system which the NHL linked to their proposed new salary cap that would cut the player’s share of revenue from the current 57 percent of revenues to somewhere between 46 percent and 42 percent. As Fehr said, “It didn’t look to us like (the owner’s suggested form of revenue sharing) was the way to go.”

Their primary objection? After examining league’s proposal, the PA determined the money the league planned to distribute to the less-wealthy clubs would, in practical terms, not be funded by the wealthy clubs but from the money derived via cutting players salaries. “The most important thing from our standpoint is that, essentially, all the revenue sharing payments made by individual teams they get back, and then some, in reduced player salary,” Fehr said.

“We’re not close on that issue (revenue sharing),” Bettman agreed, “and frankly revenue sharing is part of the bigger economic picture.” From the owners’ point of view, that bigger picture focuses on salary reduction. “The fundamental proposal, our initial proposal, is that we need to be paying out less in player costs,” Bettman said. Lowering players salaries make up, in Bettman’s words, “the fundamental economics” of the owners’ position.

So the two sides differ philosophically on how to solve the league’s purported economic problems, a league that has experienced record revenue growth in the past seven years.

And this all comes before the NHLPA has even presented their counter-proposal to the NHL’s proposal, one in which revenue sharing will doubtless be a central component. Fehr said that presentation will come next Tuesday in Toronto.

821 Comments

  1. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …amazing the energy and passion We get from even a junior age hockey game
    …Go Canada !!!

    _________________________________________________________
    Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049

    Campaign to Retire Toe Blake’s Number 6 !!!

  2. twilighthours says:

    Habfan, you got me interested. I’ve jut been following hockeyyinsiderr and some other clown incarceratedbob battle it out in twitter. It is awesome seeing these two teenagers give it to each other in 140 characters or less.

  3. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …one of My last comments made while still On The Road was apparently ‘modded’ :)
    …hmmm, it was on a CBC analysis of Olympic medal results by nations based on population, team sizes, GDP, etc.
    …I had a bit of fun with it …using the analogy of how We, as countries, somehow are comparing Our ‘peckers’ relative sizing, relative to success in sport
    …I guess the HIO censor, whomever He or She is (…or combination of both :) ), must be a prurient prune …rather undermining We Quebecers (including ex-Quebecers) self-images of being ‘worldly’
    …I mean, the word, which rhymes with ‘wrecker’ is a humorous, benign, if juvenile way to refer to the God-given human male appendage is it not ??? …it’s not quite as offensive or obscene as the other alternatives like those that rhyme with rock or rick, is it ?
    …or, was the offense taken too seriously by Our American Friends, whom I was tweaking only with tongue, not a ‘wrecker’, in My cheek :) ???

    _________________________________________________________
    Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049

    Campaign to Retire Toe Blake’s Number 6 !!!

  4. HabFab says:

    Can we put him down as a positive vote in our current HIO poll?

    yanweber68- Nice to see all #theplayers on board! Excited about our alternative proposal, being presented tomorrow! @NHLPA

  5. Mavid says:

    did anyone catch James Duthie doing the fashion show and then apologizing to all the hockey fans? Poor guy..the things they make him do..

  6. twilighthours says:

    Summit tix: section 308, row EE… Are these in the nosebleed section?

    • HabFab says:

      Check out link up to the right “From this Seat”.

    • Kfourn says:

      upper bowl I believe

      _______________________________________________________
      Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

      “It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

    • Habfan10912 says:

      One row behind me Twilight. We see Carey for two periods I believe. Look forward to meeting you.

      ———————————–

    • Habs_4_ever says:

      Not exactly Nosebleeds, but your ears may pop. : )

      I’ve been to the Bell Center about a dozen times and I’ve only ever sat in the Nosebleeds.(the only ones I could afford) I had no problem with them, I was just glad to be there.

      ————————
      “Can we lose the parade float?…..Thank you!”
      -This Old House, GMC commercial-

  7. HabFab says:

    Speaking of the CHL and Junior Hockey, their agreement with the NHL has expired. Does anyone know of any talks ongoing or any updates?

  8. twilighthours says:

    Habfan, just read the hockeyyinsiderr story. He used to be here on HIO. Who was he?

    • HabFab says:

      HabsGuardian or wjc would be my guesses. There was another kid who was that age and people picked on his grammar but his name escapes me right now.

      • twilighthours says:

        These poor, poor kids. But if you read hockeyyinsiderr’s comments to CBS sports, he actually can write pretty well. Or his mom can proofread pretty well.

        One of the comments says he used to,start big fights here on HIO. There’s been lots of those,people over the years.

      • Habfan10912 says:

        Was going to comment that Twilight meant Habfab not Habfan. Because as you always say, there are a lot of habfans but only one habfab. :)

        ———————————–

        • HabFab says:

          Tried to get your son married earlier, but he was one fish that wasn’t biting ;)

          • Habfan10912 says:

            I saw that. Good for you but he’s not going down without a fight.

            ———————————–

          • Bripro says:

            I told him to run, but he’s obviously not listening.
            I can see into the future, and he’ll be a broken old soul, sitting in front of a computer with nothing left in life but to post on his favourite hockey team. :)

          • HabFab says:

            Hey, some would say that I might represent that remark :)

          • Chrisadiens says:

            Is this a “misery loves company” type thing? ;)

            @bripro I hear you loud and clear my friend. Been together with the lady for 8 years now. I’m running out of excuses. Hehe

            Chrisadiens and HabFan10912, one of the few father son tandems on HIO.

          • Bripro says:

            Wait ’till you’ve been with the same woman for 28 years…
            My …. brain….is ….. melting….

  9. secretdragonfly says:

    No need to worry, there won’t be a lockout ’cause I just got our Summit tix (thanks Ian!).

    • Bripro says:

      I read that as encouraging.
      What would be more so would be to have one or more fan representatives there, at least to show that the league is protecting our (the “shareholders”) interests. ;)
      So now let’s all hold our breaths.

  10. HabFab says:

    This one is neat listing last season’s Champions from around the Hockey World…literally;
    http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/news/news-singleview/recap/7108.html?tx_ttnewsbackPid=955&cHash=78e24357cf

  11. HabFab says:

    And just because I’m that kind of guy ;)

    BWildeCTV – Now how foolish do 50000 of you feel following @hockeyyinsiderr knowing he wasn’t a scout, nor GM, but a 17 year old QC kid in his bedroom?

    :P

    • commandant says:

      The Deadspin piece

      http://deadspin.com/5934256/

      “So let’s lay down some ground rules. If your favorite rumor account isn’t willing to put their name behind their words, if they spend more time fighting on Twitter than backing up their reporting, and most importantly if they’re wrong 50 times for every time they’re right—they’re probably a little shit teenager who doesn’t deserve anyone’s attention.”

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • Bripro says:

      Although I agree with him on greed from both sides, you can’t convince me that Bettman’s salary has no place in these discussions.
      If the league is crying poor, then take a pay cut. Period.

      • HabFab says:

        I have seen that article with Bettman’s salary twitted today by 3 Hab players alone. The latest being Prust…all is fair in love,war and CBA negotiations! :D

        • Bripro says:

          You know what Frank? If he wasn’t so arrogant, and held virtually everyone in contempt, I would stay mum. But he rubs me (most of us) the wrong way.
          I doubt he’s laced up a pair of skates.
          Regardless, during the previous CBA negotiations, he constantly repeated that the fans would benefit from the new contract with adjusted gate pricing. Have you seen the price of tickets decline?
          When they’re charging full price for exhibition games, they get no sympathy from me.
          Most of us cannot fathom the amount of money they make.
          Yet, you have owners refusing to fork over their own money, demanding that fans and tax payers (hello Charles Wang and Greg Jamieson… among others) fork over millions for a sports franchise and a facility that might have no reason to be there.

          And player agents are no better. It’s all greed.

          I’m seriously thinking that if there’s another lock-out, I just might travel 30 miles north of here to watch the Blainville Armade play instead.

      • Cal says:

        Bettman helped double league revenues in a short period of time. He is paid less than all other league commissioners of major sports. His salary stems from the fact he has helped the league do this, so he has earned it. On the other hand, Gomez…. ;)

        • HabFanSince72 says:

          Yes, Bettman doubled league revenues by getting the Canadian dollar from $0.62 to par.

          How he did it we’ll never know.


          Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

          • Cal says:

            Didn’t know he was Jim Flaherty, didja? ;)

            Canada’s teams account for about 35% of the NHL’s revenues. 65% come from 23 American based teams. What is wrong with this picture?

          • Bripro says:

            And almost half the remaining 65% comes from the Bs, Blue shirts and Wings.

        • Bripro says:

          Wrong spot….oops.

          • HabFab says:

            Once you get past the Original 6 and the Canadian clubs, only the Flyers and Colorado made money as per Forbes.

    • punkster says:

      He’s on target with that one much as it may pain folks who insist one side or the other is the root of all evil in this situation.

      Sit down together and work it out. We all know you will eventually so cut the crap and get it done!

      ***Subbang Baby!!!***

  12. Bogie Man says:

    How much longer do I need to look at PeeWee Bettman’s face?

  13. Bripro says:

    My daughter just returned from working on a kibbutz in Israel.
    They focused on a specific archeological dig, where a stone staircase was discovered with various inscriptions.
    She pointed out that one of these was similar to ruins found in the rain forests of Guatemala, which was considered, when discovered, as being the most significant reference to the Mayan calendar.
    As most of you know, this calendar states the end of time as we know it to be December 21, 2012.
    She pointed out that this find made no reference to an end date.
    But I pointed out to her that between the cat-calling in the upcoming election, and the fact that there’s no love in between Fehr and Buttman, she didn’t have to go to Israel for me to confirm the Mayan prediction.
    I foresee it as a result of the forecasted lock-out.
    Her response? ….. blank stare, followed by rolling eyes, followed by “oye vey!” ;)

  14. secretdragonfly says:

    Totally off topic but I think I’d prefer to see a picture of a steaming pile of dog poop (or a Bruin) in place of Bettman’s smug face when I come to this site.

  15. Trisomy 21 says:

    Yeah, there might be a lockout, maybe they will resolve the issues before September 15th.
    But I’m happy to see Hodor, the Habs 5th round pick of this past 2012 draft was invited to Team Canada’s WJC training camp. That would be a nice thing to see, the first, second and third round pick all from one draft year playing in the WJC in their first year after the draft.

    Hodor!

  16. showey47 says:

    Yeah,summit tickets just came in.

  17. Bripro says:

    Someone tweeted the ideal solution to prevent a lock-out.

  18. HabFab says:

    See that Gilbert Brule is the latest Junior star / NHL bust to go to Europe…Zurich of the Swiss league.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Man that kid was good in junior. I took a group of friends from Australia to see a Vancouver Giants game during the NHL lockout, they wanted to see a hockey game. Gilbert Brulé was all over the ice, the best player head and shoulders above everyone else. Even they could tell, he was always around the puck, making things happen.

      ———————————————————————–
      This isn’t “Billionaires vs. Millionaires.” Only a willfully uninformed fool would apply that sloppy shorthand designation to this disgraceful power grab crafted by some of the wealthiest individuals and corporate entities in North America aimed against professional athletes.–Larry Brooks of the New York Post

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • Newf_Habster says:

      It saddens me because his uncle is one of my closest friends. :( I was his best man at his wedding and I remember Gilbert as a little boy. He got quite a personality like his uncles on his mother’s side.

  19. HabFab says:

    Yipeeee! Hockey game!
    The Russian Canada game in Halifax is on TSN / RDS tonight at 7pm EST.

  20. SmartDog says:

    I wish there was a good hockey team in Laval to watch.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  21. frontenac1 says:

    Wine and Guinness? Guinness with Single Malt Chaser, and don”t forget the Cohiba amigo.

  22. RobertAlanFord says:

    Haven’t scrolled down but Brad Richards tweeted this article not too long ago
    http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2012/08/13/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NHL-pay.aspx
    @RAFord77
    http://bleublancetrouge.ca

    • Cal says:

      Seeing as he has helped double league revenues over a relatively short period, you have to give Bettman his due. Or he’ll ask you for it. ;)
      Good work if you can get it, right?

    • Bripro says:

      Check my link directly under yours.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      The great crime is that Colin Campbell is pulling down 2 mill a year.

      ———————————————————————–
      This isn’t “Billionaires vs. Millionaires.” Only a willfully uninformed fool would apply that sloppy shorthand designation to this disgraceful power grab crafted by some of the wealthiest individuals and corporate entities in North America aimed against professional athletes.–Larry Brooks of the New York Post

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  23. EricInStL says:

    You know hockey stopped being important for me when the internet started. The reason is that so many different sports are now available (soccer, cricket, rugby, etc). And I’ve become a spectator of sports instead of a fan of hockey.

    A fan cares (sometimes too much) for his/her team. And cannot see their team or any other team without any bias. And reading this site and others (Boston, Phily etc) one thing is clear, lots of people need help. They are delusional.

    So with the looming lockout, please realize that you are being taken for a ride. A ride where YOU pay (if you go that is). You will always pay. So go see a midget AAA game or a QMJHL game. Or better yet go play a sport and enjoy the outdoors.

    Money grabs are only interesting for those who do the grabbing, and you ain’t grabbing anything.

  24. frontenac1 says:

    Hola Amigos!
    I”m with Bripro on this.
    “She (owners and players) got the Goldmine…and I(fans) got the
    Shaft” ….Jerry Reed.

  25. HabFab says:

    CHL training camps start this week, some rookie camps today. Notice the first Q exhibition game is the 16th…hockey is back. The regular season in the Q starts September 20th.

  26. Bripro says:

    For those picking sides regarding the CBA, I obligingly re-post my rant from friday night.
    Note: These comments were following a few glasses of whine and Guinness, anxiously awaiting to set foot on Canadian soil, so forgive me if I went a little overboard. It couldn’t be helped:

    OK I’ve been away a couple of weeks, and only put in two cameo appearances here.
    So I’ve opened up tonight for one final cameo (home tomorrow) to read that little Hittler and the NHLPA’s Arkadin are at odds.
    What a surprise!
    I said from the day Fehr was designated as their representative that you can kiss the beginning and a large part of the season goodbye!
    From the owners, claiming they can’t operate under these conditions…
    Give me a break! I thought a 50/50 split, although cliched, would be appropriate until the Flyers went out on a thief’s mission submitting an offer sheet that borders on insanity, on top of Butthead’s insistence on keeping a team in the desert, while forking over money that the owners claim they’re in dire need of.
    On the other side, agents are pushing their players to refuse money that most of us won’t earn in a lifetime (Hello P.K.).
    This league is a pathetic shadow of its former self.
    I’m disgusted with both sides.
    Last month, I was in a food plant to help enhance their productivity and watch while forty women packed boxes of fresh produce for $10/hour, of which they send home half.
    Never a smile left their faces, yet one has to assume that they live in squalor or pretty close.
    I’m at the end of a two week vacation which many have to budget to afford, yet these owners and players can write off with the interest of today’s earnings.
    Until someone paints them a picture that they’ll understand, we’ll be living through a hockey-related work stoppage every 6 to 8 years.
    I’m starting to sound bitter like Jack Todd, but I believe with good reason.
    The NHL….. What a joke!

  27. Propwash says:

    We, the fans, are the ones lining the pockets of all the parties involved when you boil it all down. And yet, we’re the ones getting screwed, and yet have no say in the matter.

    _____________________________
    “Access Forbidden” gettin’ ya down?
    Hold down Shift while clicking refresh.

    • Timo says:

      Wouldn’t you love to be “the other party” in all of that for a change? :)

    • slapshot777 says:

      We got a say only if we want to and everytime we chose not to. That is, do not buy the jersey’s the t-shirts or any of the other merchandise that the NHL or team itself are promoting. This is where the majority of the money comes from the other from TV deals. The gate is just enough to cover the players and operating costs for the season.

      The concessions are just another bonus for the NHL and owners. I know we are not going to give up hockey altogether, but when we do go just cut back on the expenditures. If all fans from all hockey markets were to do this the message will be heard.

      We might not be heard in the board room or in front of some media, but we will be heard in the bank accounts and in the pockets of both the players and owners and the NHL. The Canadian teams have to be a little more fiscal responsible since this is where the majority of the money comes from.

      The NHL, owners and players alike will all know if that this was to come to fore front, then next time around the mind set would be on the fan the little guy who has to work for $ 50,000- $100,000 price range, who has to budget his money wisely to plan trips, or any other type of entertainment. We cannot just lay out $ 500,000 at the blink of an eye for a house or a car or some other luxury that we could only dream about.

      we have the say and power to do this, but doing is another matter altogether, because without us the fan, there ceases to be any NHL period.

      To you from failing hands we throw the torch, be yours to hold it high.

    • Cal says:

      The only “say” is to stop buying the tickets and the paraphernalia. Life is expensive enough without the NHL hockey habit. Unfortunately, that’s a lot easier to say than to do. The moment the NHL is back, we will be, too, watching and paying.

  28. petefleet says:

    In other news…..

    Hudon is playing for Canada against the Russians in Halifax tonight. I missed the first game on TV but caught the second. He didn’t look too bad. Gregorenko and Yakopov were something to see but didn’t figure in on most of the scoring.

    I’m going to the two games in Halifax, actually can’t wait.

    To quote my 11 yr old daughter….Bettman is a “bum cheek”.
    ******************************************

    “It just goes to show how difficult predictions are, especially ones made about the future.”

    RGM
    ***Habs Forever***

    • jedimyrmidon says:

      Let’s hope Team Canada wins after being undisciplined and losing their last game.

    • ed lopaz says:

      after watching the second game I think its safe to say Yakupov will not be in the tournament come December. his skills are NHL.

      once the puck is on Yak’s stick he shifts gears and he’s off to the races. a brilliant hockey player for sure.

      • Chris says:

        I’m still absolutely flabbergasted that there was serious talk that anybody should take somebody ahead of Yakupov in this summer’s draft.

        Yakupov is going to be a big star in the NHL, methinks.

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          Doesn’t it happen every year though? The studio analysts start to bang the drums that there are teams out there who have their own #1 pick and who may trade up and bla bla bla, but invariably the consensus #1 is taken first overall. It’s almost as if these guys are trying to create the controversy for some reason.

      • petefleet says:

        I swear I have that exact same post from you in the past. Either that or I’m having deja vu again.

        Nail is impressive and so is Gregorenko.

        ******************************************

        “It just goes to show how difficult predictions are, especially ones made about the future.”

        RGM
        ***Habs Forever***

    • Lizardking89 says:

      Great blog. I feel the same way I’m squarely in the players’ corner this time around.

      • Bripro says:

        I can’t support either side.
        I’m disgusted with greedy owners and their little Hitler, and disappointed with the players’ agents, for pretty much the same reason.

        • Timo says:

          I am with you Bri. I can’t bring myself to support neither players nor owners. Let’s face it, they are all a bunch of greedy sleazeballs to me. There are first world problems and then there are professional sports problems – i can’t relate to that. Somewhere deep inside I will be quite giddy when both of these parties start losing their $$$

          • Bripro says:

            The funny thing is, you visit other blog sites from different cities, and given the different teams we all root for, the general consensus is the same. The fans are the ones being asked to bend over.

          • Un Canadien errant says:

            I get you Timo, but I’m not sure you should see it as “supporting (the) players”, rather see it as decrying the great hypocrisy of the owners. They’re the ones who will deprive you of NHL hockey, the game that you bought and paid for all your life every time you picked up beer at the dépanneur or bought new tires or paid transaction fees at your bank. It’s our game, but somehow they’re allowed to shut it down on us, so they can extort a higher commission.

  29. Kooch7800 says:

    It is tough to come to this site when Boner Betman’s face is the first thing I see…..here is hoping for a new story so I don’t have to look at his sorry ass anymore

  30. habstrinifan says:

    Re the link to the hockeyyinsiderr being exposed. If it is true that he is a 15 yr old kid, then with a good lesson in ethics, that young man can become a very good journalist/blogger.

  31. RobertAlanFord says:

    Nothing news related but for or those android users here, I just found a really cool app called Big Win Hockey. It’s the same system as EA’S HUT mode except you only manage your team, you don’t play the games. It’s free and live against other users. Great app for all the armchair GM’s looking to kill a bit of time. Just thought I’d throw it out there seeing as though there’s nothing going on in hockey right now. Have fun.

    @RAFord77
    http://bleublancetrouge.ca/

  32. Timo says:

    Strange thing happened last night… I found myself hating seeing Jacques Rogge’s face more than I have seeing Bettman’s. Bettman never had me want to throw something at the TV.

  33. HabFab says:

    More numbers;
    – NHL looking for $360-450 million back from the players with their proposal of 11-14% cut back in players share of HRR (with revisions)
    – this equals $12-15,000,000 per team
    – NHL has new NBC TV deal at $200 million per year, not sure what they were getting from previous deal with NBC for play-offs and that cable network. For argument sake $50,000,000. This leaves $150,000,000 of New Revenue.
    – $5,000,000 of new revenue per team drops Revenue need per team to $7,000,000-10,000,000.
    – a 7% drop in Players share to 50% would realize another $231,000,000 million
    – total increase of $381,000,000 divided by 30 teams = $12,7000,000 each.
    – every team except Phoenix and Columbus would have shown a profit based on 2010-2011 season figures from Forbes (no commandant) For the sake of argument that would make 90% of the teams profitable.

    • nunacanadien says:

      The reality is Bettman needs his tv ad revenue from even the smallest markets in Arizona, but really, how much is that revenue really? Is it worth losing a season. Why not just let the most least attended games like Phoenix die off? If the fans don’t want it, you can bet they are not watching it on tv and you can bet the advertsing is not top dollar for that.

      Why not just limit and encourage teams to die off? Of course that would mean Winnipeg wouldn’t stand a chance, but would it ever under Bettman? Canada doesn’t have enough ad revenue, but compared to what? Arizona?

    • HabFab says:

      TV deals;
      – old NBC deal was $60-70,000,000 per year
      – prior deal with ABC was $120,000,000 per
      – new NBC deal is $205,000,000 per
      – plus TV deal in Scandinavia for $10,000,000+ per

    • commandant says:

      Would show a net gain in operating income…..

      Lets not forget the capital gains that the owners of these teams are benefitting from as well. The dirty little secret that no one wants to mention when we talk about the businesses profit and loss.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • HabFab says:

        That is true but how is Molson benefiting from that now? He paid $575 million for a team that Forbes appraised at $445 million. He would however be an exception to your point which I agree with.
        However, another point is that teams owning or managing their arenas are also doing very well with concerts, trade shows, etc. All non Hockey Related Revenues.

        • commandant says:

          Forbes’ appraisals have almost always been below the selling price.

          In fact the asset was appraised at considerably less than $445 when he bought the team.

          When this is common across all sports and all leagues, you have to question the use of the appraisals.

          Go Habs Go!
          Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
          http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • GrimJim says:

      FYI. The previous deal with NBC was a revenue-sharing deal only. NBC paid no upfront money for the broadcast rights. Instead NBC and NHL shared whatever profit was left over from the ad revenue generated (the % split was never disclosed). As for the previous Versus deal, in 2006 it was a two-year $60 million per year deal. (http://www.nysun.com/sports/dont-believe-the-gripe-the-nhl-is-back/34542/ ) However, I found another report that listed the deal as $65 mil, 70 mil, an Comcast option for one year at 72.5 mil, and then three year renewal at an undisclosed sum (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/sports/hockey/19sandomir.html?_r=2&scp=4&sq=NHL+on+ABC&st=nyt&oref=slogin)

  34. Newf_Habster says:

    Gary Bettman is so stupid by making a threat to lock players out again. This is gonna hurt NHL in a long term.

    • V says:

      Given the growth of league revenues under his watch, stupid is the last thing I would call Bettman.

      People said the last work stoppage would hurt NHL in the long term and it did the opposite… league emerged with a more stable financial arrangement, a better product and growth.

      Given those results, he would be stupid not to take another run at improving the leagues position. Unfair perhaps, but not stupid.

  35. ed lopaz says:

    from below Smart Dog who knows his poop.
    “b) does the league really need a team in Phoenix bleeding money to maintain its US presence or is this money pit being propped up for Bettman’s personal pride – in which case, why should anyone give a…um, buck.

    on the surface contracting or moving the Phoenix franchise appears to be inevitable.

    but the issue of Bettman’s personal pride is entirely insignificant.

    sitting in a room with 30 rich owners means, by definition, there are 30 very smart accountants and lawyers sitting right next to them.

    no commissioner would be able to fool that group for this long into taking decisions based on pride.

    that kind of foolishness needs to be left on the sidelines.

    the owners have been presented with a “long term” growth strategy that includes Phoenix. it has been explained to them that cities like Phoenix are fundamentally important; detailed financially to them in real dollars and cents.

    this long term plan is really struggling to get off the ground and my instinct is that it will be shelved; contracting 2 franchises and possibly moving 2 or 3 others in the next 10 years.

    but if Bettman was trying to pull the wool over their eyes, the owners would be looking to make a change and they’re not. Bettman just signed a huge extension to his contract.

    • SmartDog says:

      Bettman’s been a success because he’s grown revenues through TV deals. So it’s hard to touch him whether people agree or not with particular decisions – and Phoenix may make sense to a bean counter or not, but I doubt they would do anything. The point is, do the players feel stake in what Bettman is doing? And I don’t think so. It’s a dictatorship, and why should they agree to what the dictator wants when he thumbs his nose at them by habit.

      ————————————-
      Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

      • HabFab says:

        The TV Revenue deal doesn’t start until this season so Revenue growth has not been that way.

        • SmartDog says:

          You’re talking about the new NBC/Versus deal. But they’ve had other (less substantial) deals with NBC and Versus, they have the NHL channel, the Winter Classic gets big coverage etc. This is where the money has come from.

          ————————————-
          Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

          • HabFab says:

            I addressed that above and would like to know the exact figures but time constrained now. Although some is certainly Media based, would argue you the rest. Attendance has increased along with other increased revenues including higher ticket cost. Also remember there was an almost 10% increase of HRR in the first year solely based on the NHLPA gaining access to the teams financial records.

    • HabFab says:

      We all love to hate him but he is a sharp cookie. As for Phoenix and his dogged pursuit of saving that franchisee…have to believe it has something to do with American demographics and getting that National TV Network contract which they have now.

  36. HabFanSince72 says:

    The players will call for better revenue sharing in order to help out franchises like Florida, St.Louis, Islanders, Nashville, Colorado etc …

    What this will mean for you, Canadian hockey fan, is that you will send even more of your entertainment dollar into the bank accounts of American millionaires who do not love your national sport. They see team ownership as an investment, based not on the presence of a local market, but on the ability to extort money from suckers.

    I personally don’t care if there are 30 or 22 teams in the NHL.

    A 20 team NHL would suit me just fine. Losing the bottom third of players would reduce the quality of the game by exactly zero.

    In fact it would considerably improve the game.

    I don’t pay money to watch the 3rd and 3th liners.

    Take, as an example, Gregory Campbell. I would generously rank him as the 400th best player in the league. He earns $1.6M/year.

    Do you know how much the 400th best tennis player in the world makes? Probably barely enough to pay hotel and transportation costs. Or the 400th best race car driver? He’s not even a professional.

    To earn Gregory Campbell money in tennis you’d have to be ranked in the top ten.

    No to revenue sharing. If it means no hockey in Tampa or Ft Lauderdale, I don’t care.


    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • commandant says:

      The owners will never endorse a plan that cuts teams from the U.S. just months after finally making inroads on a significant $2 Billion, 10 year tv deal with NBC. Won’t happen. Forget it.

      Every team gets over 6.4 million in revenue just from the deal with NBC.

      If that means Montreal, Toronto, New York and other big market teams have to throw an extra 5 million in ticket sales into the revenue sharing pot, to ensure they keep getting the 6.4 million from US TV deals…. they will do it, every time.

      First they will try to take the 5 million from the players pockets, but if push comes to shove and they can’t break the union, eventually a distribution of these revenues that favours the weaker markets and keeps them a float while giving the league the possibility of even more tv revenue done the line.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        I know the owners wouldn’t go for it.

        I was just giving my opinion. The NHL is not structured to benefit me, the Canadian hockey fan. It’s structured to take advantage of my gullibility, and my willingness to pay money to watch journeymen play the game just because they wear the C-H or the Blue Maple Leaf.


        Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • HabFab says:

      Unfortunately, the NHL and NHLPA don’t look at it the same way most Canadian fans do. We would have less American teams but somewhere down the line of time, the Americans took control of the NHL.

  37. HABZ24 says:

    Just call it 50 50 sharing and move on with the season

  38. SmartDog says:

    There are several assumptions underlying the NHL’s position. At the core is the idea that because
    there are several teams losing money, the PLAYERS need to make big concessions to prop up those teams because without them we’d lose contracts and money and the players would lose money.

    As with most lies there is a kernel of truth to this. Expansion has brought bigger US TV revenues. But:
    a) why are the really financially successful teams all in traditional markets (which have also grown)
    b) does the league really need a team in Phoenix bleeding money to maintain its US presence or is this money pit being propped up for Bettman’s personal pride – in which case, why should anyone give a…um, buck.
    And the big one…
    c) is what the players are being asked to give up REASONABLE? Of course it’s not. To ask for “balance” at 50% or something closer to par with the other major sports leagues would’ve shown that the NHL is actually trying to get a fair deal done.

    Even in the name of negotiations to come in with a 20% salary cut in a time of financial growth and prosperity is worse than ridiculous, it’s an affront to the players and a bruise to the process of healing the two sides.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • commandant says:

      Its closer to a 25% cut with the exclusions the owners want to make to HRR (hockey related revenue). They want to take certain revenue streams and say that they do not count, and the players don’t get a percentage of them.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

  39. HabFab says:

    So from a month plus of CBA talk what have we learned;
    – the NHLPA doesn’t have a problem
    – the NHL want to get back some of the benefits they gave the NHLPA to get a Salary Cap (UFA age, length of ETL, arbitration rights)
    – the NHL want to close loop holes that they are abusing (contract lengths, yearly amounts of contracts)
    – the NHL, even though revenue has grown 50% in the 7 years of the CBA, is still the same old “sick cow”. Only 40% of the teams are profitable with the others in their best years able to break even or have only minor losses. For 20% of the teams, they have serious debt plus the revenue problems.
    – both sides are proposing Revenue Sharing to fix this problem. The NHL has presented it’s version in which the players give back 11-14% of the total Revenue to fund this and the NHLPA will give their counter proposal this week. In March or April, one of the NHLPA leaders floated that 33% of Team revenues be put into a pool and evenly distributed.
    – This will be the major issue.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Perhaps the players should also take 33% of their earnings and spread it evenly among retired players who made a fraction of the money current players do and are struggling financially.

      Afterall it was many of these players who paved the way for todays players to earn the bucks they do.

    • Cal says:

      As always, the fans will be screwed over. Revenue sharing among owners will not work. The reason is simple: why should owners (and really, it’s the fans) pay a premium for their success while others that can’t dry flies to a dead carcass benefit?
      The revenues from the leage-wide tv deal are split evenly. Nothing else is. Why should I pay top dollar here in Montreal to see a game when a Yotes fan gets in for practically nothing? Why should I pay that successful franchise “tax”? Bettman’s nontraditional US markets has been a failure in Arizona only. The Islanders and Devils are sucking wind in the NY area. A proper response is for them to move, preferably with one or two coming to Canada (where people actually give a sh!t about the games).

      • commandant says:

        The Islanders and Devils don’t get a penny in revenue sharing due to their market being larger than 2.5 million homes.

        Phoenix will soon surpass that number (within 2 years) and then will no longer qualify for revenue sharing.

        The system is broken.

        Go Habs Go!
        Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

  40. HabFab says:

    Colby Armstrong’s little fellow wearing his new pj’s;
    https://twitter.com/armdog/status/234833000402141184/photo/1

    @Bripro – thought of your grandson.

  41. HabFab says:

    Hockey Futures has an updated Top 20 Hab Prospects list.

  42. Bim says:

    No matter how Canadian I am…if these guys go on strike I will N O T be coming back to watch A N Y games. These tatics never worked in Baseball and I can’t see them working any better in Hockey. I would find any work stoppage in excuseable and disgusting. Both sides should be ashamed of themselves…millionaires fighting over money. They should be so lucky. Most of us don’t even make in a lifetime what most of the players and owners make in a year. Looks like more quality time with family is in order this Winter (which is never a bad thing!).

  43. HabinBurlington says:

    The Globe and Mail with an editorial on the possible looming work stoppage as it relates to us the fans.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/editorials/how-many-more-times-can-the-nhl-fail-to-hold-up-its-end-of-the-bargain/article4475557/?cmpid=rss1

    And the Minnesota Wild had to do a cash call from their investors in order to find some money to pay their newest stars.
    http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_21292550/charley-walters-minnesota-wilds-zach-parise-ryan-suter

  44. HabinBurlington says:

    As an aside, the NHL has an escape clause to get out of the Winter Classic for minimal expense if indeed the league is having a work stoppage.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/13/sports/hockey/in-case-of-lockout-nhl-has-leeway-on-winter-classic.html?_r=3

  45. commandant says:

    Today I look at the New York Islanders, who have used years of high picks to amass a ton of talent. Now can they ever put it all together?

    http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/08/13/top-shelf-prospects-new-york-islanders/

    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  46. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …Home Sweet Home
    …I am totally wired as ‘a traveller’ …I love going ‘somewhere’, ‘anywhere’ …far or near
    …but, I think it’s all an excuse to ‘come home’ :)
    _________________________________________________________
    Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049

    Campaign to Retire Toe Blake’s Number 6 !!!

    • HabinBurlington says:

      There is always something special about coming home, glad your summer of travel has treated you and your family well Christopher. Nothing new for us to report to you unfortunately.

  47. Gerry H says:

    This may be hopelessly out in left field, but I’d like to offer an alternate take on the latest manoeuvres from the NHL and NHLPA. I’m not sure that things are quite as grim as some make them out to be.

    Before I get to my main point, let me say that I was as stunned as anyone by NHL’s opening position. Call it inflammatory, punitive, insulting, whatever. My first reaction was the firm belief that they wanted a lockout, as baffling as that seems. Given the ground that the league has made up in the last few years on everything from revenues to US TV rights, angling for a lockout now is a ruinous proposition. But, clearly, short of asking the NHLPA to attend the negotiating sessions in drag, the offer could hardly have been engineered more deliberately for failure. Anyone else who has read Barbara Tuchman’s The March of Folly will recognize the behaviour. Powerful people acting forcefully and decisively against their own best interests.

    But then the damndest thing happened.

    Nothing.

    A proposal that seemed deliberately designed to provoke and to outrage prompted no response at all. In his first public comments after the proposal was tabled, Fehr sounded cool and unruffled, merely offering that a counter-proposal would come along in a week or so, two at most. Tomorrow will mark a full month since that opening offer and the NHLPA is still not committing to a specific date for a counter-offer. No counter-offer, no histrionics, no sweat.

    Really?

    People have attached a lot of importance to Bettman’s announcement last week that there would be a lockout if no deal is reached before the current CBA expires. They are saying that this, coupled with the hardball initial offer, is just another sign that the BoG is hawkish on the new CBA and is willing to go to the wall.

    I don’t see it that way. I think the NHLPA is being very smart and that both sides know that a lockout is a losing proposition for everyone. I think the NHLPA is trying to force the negotiations into a very compressed timeframe, because they know that the longer they drag on, the more concessions will be on the table. The league is trying to play it cool, but they clearly wanted this process to be well underway by now, and the NHLPA refuses to play along. Based on that dynamic alone, we can conclude two things: 1) The NHL wants this done by September 15th without a lockout; and 2) The NHLPA, so far, is controlling the play.

    I’ll take that one step further. The fact that Bettman went public this past week on the lockout threat, before the NHLPA made any substantive declaration or counter-offer, constitutes the League blinking first.

    Again, so far I think Fehr has played this very, very well. He’s controlling the play and both he and Betmman know that the latter’s bluff has been called. The NHLPA has nothing to gain from a protracted negotiation and, by comparison to a BoG that includes a significant number of financially fragile members, has less to lose from a lockout. He wants them REALLY motivated before the negotiations begin in earnest, and he has manoeuvred the process in that direction.

    The longer this goes on without a substantive NHLPA counter-offer, the more convinced I am that a deal gets done quickly in early September.

    • Habitant in Surrey says:

      …You nailed it Gerry …I totally see it the same way

      _________________________________________________________
      Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
      http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049

      Campaign to Retire Toe Blake’s Number 6 !!!

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Helpful analysis, and fresh take on the negotiations Gerry. I agree with your point of view that the PA has little to gain by starting bargaining early. The NHL is the party that wants changes, they’re the ones who want to spend a long time tinkering.

      Since the PA accepted the salary cap in the last round, and the new structure for player relations is established, very little needs to be done that can’t be accomplished at the eleventh hour. On September 14, it may be that the players give up on a few points of Hockey Related Revenue in return for various ‘quality of life’ issues, and everyone goes home grumbling but thankful that the bomb didn’t detonate.

      I’ve been involved in negotiating three separate Collective Bargaining Agreements. The first one was an initial CBA and there was a lot of work to do on that one, upgrading from an unworkable and unenforceable Employee Handbook that had certain clauses in it that were clearly illegal. This deal came down to the last session before we had a legal right to strike, and suddenly the head honcho came to the table and the meaningful horse-trading began. The meat and potato issues that either side had and said would never give up on were exchanged in bunches for some other bunches, and percentage issues were decided in minutes. For example, leaving the table for a confab, our rep had a sidebar with their lead rep and came back and said we could settle the pay issue by accepting a two pay-grade raise for our members now, or get the three pay-grades we felt we were entitled to when compared to other similar situations, but only in his opinion if we went on strike for a day or two and then accepted binding arbitration, at which he felt strongly confident our position would be successful. We took the two step, it was done in less than a minute, and we put the final touches on other housekeeping and we were essentially done. All the months of posturing and sturm and drang was reduced down to a quick compromise by both parties.

      The next two rounds were a lot easier, the framework was there already, lots of language and housekeeping issues needed to be addressed, and again the significant issues that kept us apart were settled at the last session. The management went with outside consultants for representation though, and they were only too happy to start very early and schedule lots of sessions and run up the tab, and none of those sessions were useful, they started with an unacceptable position and didn’t budge until the clock was running out.

      In this instance, I do see the NHLPA as the party that is being threatened and which has little to do in the process, kind of like when your girlfriend threatens to leave you and all you can do is listen and agree with her on certain issues, but ultimately you can’t force her to not leave you. So the players will hold the line on their position, and offer, as Larry Brooks states, a dramatic, far-seeing counter-proposal as a red herring/counterpoint to the owners’ unrealistic offer to win a little more in the PR war.

      There will be two important time periods, September 15 to October 1, when the owners will have the hammer and threaten the players with a lockout and loss of paycheques, after which the next significant date will be January 1, at which point the players will have a smaller hammer of threatening the owners with loss of the Winter Classic and the ruffling of their relationship with NBC, which depends on hockey now that their football schedule is pretty much done. If a deal isn’t done by then, there isn’t a significant date except the general pressure of lost revenue and paycheques. The season can be saved but we have to believe that a minimum of fourty games need to be played to have a meaningful season and a Stanley Cup, and they would need to start playing in mid to late-January to achieve that in a compressed schedule. In that game of chicken, the owners have the deeper pockets and will have the advantage.

      ———————————————————————–
      This isn’t “Billionaires vs. Millionaires.” Only a willfully uninformed fool would apply that sloppy shorthand designation to this disgraceful power grab crafted by some of the wealthiest individuals and corporate entities in North America aimed against professional athletes.–Larry Brooks of the New York Post

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • Cal says:

      Good post. Well thought out. Remember, though, this is a pissing contest between two very large egos. This “NHL blinking first” was a mere reiteration of what the NHL BoG will do. In other words, see you in January when the NHL gears up to play half a season.

    • 24 Cups says:

      I seriously doubt that the NHL and Bettman blinked first. I think it’s more a case of the lockout ultimatum being Part 2 of the original contract offer.

      The NHLPA would love to come back and play under the terms of the old CBA. That suits their purposes and is their best card to play right now. By threatening the use of a lockout in early August, the league sets the time parameters for negotiations.

      There is still lots of room here for compromise and an eventual settlement that both sides can live with for the next seven years. The real question is what kind of demands and mandates does Bettman have from the hardline owners. They are the key to what is going to happen during the next month or two. If they want a drop to 50% as well as other major concessions, than it could be a very long year without hockey.

      As I keep saying, Bettman is negotiating with the owners as well as the players. He’s basically walking a tightrope.

    • habstrinifan says:

      I like the presentation very much but I cannot say that your conclusions are sound.

      You make a good inference re the ‘fragile’ BOG as opposed to a prepared NHLPA. I think this is borne out by the carelessly unsound initial offer from the NHL. As if they grabbed some off the cuff rants and cobbled together that offer. We shall soo see since Fehr’s response is promised for tomorrow.

      Great presentation though… very readable.

  48. Newf_Habster says:

    @hockeyyinsiderr is partly exposed and identified. Dammit, he is just a 17 years old kid!!! Why do some of you gullible fools still follow him?! Just unfollow him!

    http://kyriacou22.blogspot.ca/2012/08/who-is-hockeyyinsiderr.html

    • JayK-47 says:

      That kid’s a member here too. I remember him trying to pimp his “friend’s” Twitter account or blog. He started a couple flame wars, dropped the worst burn I ever saw, then disappeared.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      It is kind of funny that a 16 year old is calling out a 17 year old. I have never placed any credibility in this so called hockey insiderr just as I have never placed any credibility on Eklund. Both are just wannabes with too much time on their hands.

      • Newf_Habster says:

        I am not surprised that he is a kid. How did I know? Last June this kid immaturely cursed at Darren Dreger when Mr. Dreger made fun of him on Twitter. Real hockey pundits do not curse on Twitter so that is how I know HI is actually a kid.

  49. SmartDog says:

    I never noticed how much Bettman looks like PeeWee Herman until now.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • Gerry H says:

      While waiting in line for a Timmies at the WJC Gold medal game in Ottawa a few years back, I saw Bettman and Colin Campbell stroll by. He is really tiny and quite sickly looking. I see the Pee-Wee Herman connection, but that night he was far more Danny DeVito as the Penguin.

  50. It seems like most of the general public are siding with the players in this. I think a CBA that leads to so many teams losing money and 100% of players making great salaries needs to be fixed.

    Not a single player lost money in the NHL last year but many teams lost tons of money and several are near bankruptcy. That can’t continue and that is why I support changes to the CBA.

    Telio
    The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site: http://teliopost.com/
    Twitter: @teliopost

    • Lizardking89 says:

      I do too but I also fault the owners for offering such massive sums of money on July 1st. Of course they will take it if it’s offered the owners have to set the market and they haven’t done that. They are the ones who give the green light on these deals the responsibility and fault lie with then. That’s how I see it anyway.

  51. Mavid says:

    4000 albums and eight gazillion dollars says he does not suck..but hey to each their own…

    • shiram says:

      Shania Twain sold over 40 millions of her Come on Over album, one of the best selling albums ever, sales should not be an argument for qualtiy music.

  52. blu_blanc_rouge says:

    Elton john sucks

  53. Mavid says:

    besides just being the spice girls..they were also pretty bad…the rolling stones would have been amazing

  54. Mavid says:

    Elton would have been great..such an entertainer..far better than the screamin mimi that is with Queen…what a shame..

  55. 24 Cups says:

    Am I the only person who finds it strange that Elton John wasn’t part of the entertainment package at the Olympics?

    • Cal says:

      Elton John and the Rolling Stones. In lieu of the Spice Girls, for sure. Otherwise, Eric Idle’s “Bright Side of Life” was my highlight of the evening. Especially when they didn’t bleep out his “Life’s a piece of sh!t, when you look at it” line.

  56. Mavid says:

    what an ugly puss…if he delay’s my hockey watching pleasure..I will have to find him and claw his face off…I hate that man so much..

  57. boing007 says:

    “After examining league’s proposal, the PA determined the money the league planned to distribute to the less-wealthy clubs would, in practical terms, not be funded by the wealthy clubs but from the money derived via cutting players salaries. “The most important thing from our standpoint is that, essentially, all the revenue sharing payments made by individual teams they get back, and then some, in reduced player salary,” Fehr said.

    Who is getting a reduced salary? I haven’t seen any. Show me one player in the NHL who is not getting a raise in salary for next reason.

    Richard R
    Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  58. Bogie Man says:

    Read on twitter that Chicago wants Pleks and that there is a multi player trade in the works between the two teams. I know this is a rumour, but it involves Patrick Sharp. Interesting is all I an say at this time.

    • SmartDog says:

      Pleks is my favorite Hab.

      But we all know the situation –
      a) he’s the kind of player every team wants and so might have a lot of value in a trade, and
      b) with Eller and DD and now Galchenyuk we’re going to have a backlog at center soon. A trade is going to be made, maybe not now but likely soon – within the next year.

      ————————————-
      Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

      • Bogie Man says:

        If the trade has any merit whatsoever, and I doubt it does. Patrick Sharp (not Kane) would be a great aquisition/trade. I like you would hate to see Pleks go but you are right he is one of the very few assets we have that is worth anything in the current trade market.

    • 24 Cups says:

      If the Habs are trading for Kane, it’s going to take more than just Pleks to seal the deal.

    • accp says:

      Bogie – Depends whats coming our way. sharp is not a whole lot better than Pleks and not much bigger.

    • jmsheehy19 says:

      I love Sharpie, but not sure we’re better with him than with Pleky. I’m willing to accept moving Plekanec if Bergevin can improve us for 2 to 3 years down the road, but in Sharp we get a slightly better offensive threat for a decrease in defensive threat at almost exactly the same age.

      Value is there but I just don’t see why we do it. Unless they are absolutely convinced that Eller is ready to be our number 2 and either LL or Bournival can center the 3rd line, seems like a lateral move to me.

  59. SmartDog says:

    Can someone with a stronger stomach than me for maudlin musical theater tell me at what point in the Olympic closing ceremonies the flag bearers come out.

    I PVR’d it and want to see Sinclair and our athletes but am going to puke if I have to hear another Beatles song while watching some dudes hang from ropes or roll around on the ground or just march around in some sort of ‘traditional’ costume while wearing a grin.

    If I go to hell, I’m going to be strapped in a chair in a dark theatre watching Cats over and over while ravens pack at my eyes and eadrums with the frustrating result that despite the pain, my sight and hearing are entirely undamaged.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • Lizardking89 says:

      Having a bad day are we? Seriously though that was a funny frikken post man I agree wholeheartedly

      • SmartDog says:

        Yah I was really looking forward to the closing ceremonies…. and then I remembered what these things are like. Such an upbeat games, but such a snoozefest to close with!

        ————————————-
        Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  60. accp says:

    would anyone give up Subban, Weber and a 3rd rounder for Bobby Ryan?

    • commandant says:

      No, I wouldn’t give Subban straight up for Bobby Ryan.

      Subban is on his way to becoming a stud defenceman, already at 22 playing 25 minutes per game against the other teams best lines, and finishing a +9 with 36 points on a 28th place club.

      To me Defencemen are more valuable than wingers and at this point in their careers, Ryan as a winger is not more valuable than Subban as a defenceman.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • pmaraw says:

        I dont know why everyones so hot for Bobby Ryan, he plays with Getzlaf and Perry right? inflated numbers there if you can say DD has inflated numbers playing with Cole and Pacioretty

    • JUST ME says:

      About a month after everyone. That question has been asked and and denied a while ago.

  61. pmaraw says:

    ugh, now all we’re gonna see is Gary Buttchin’s face on every NHL related article/video for who knows how long!


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