Canadiens’ Travis Moen back at practice

TravisMoen

AUDIO: Travis Moen | Jaro Spacek | Aaron Palushaj | Raphael Diaz

Pat Hickey reports in from Collingwood, Ont., that Canadiens forward Travis Moen has returned to practice on Tuesday morning after missing time with an injury.

He was skating on a line with Andreas Engqvist and Yannick Weber.

Erik Cole continues to skate on a line with David Desharnais and Mathieu Darche.

More to come later.

784 Comments

  1. j0nHABS says:

    Does anyone know when White is supposed to be back?

  2. habsfanonthewestcoast says:

    Came here to read about hockey, and found a teenager girly fight. What a waste of time.

  3. TomNickle says:

    I’ve been gone for a few months. Are the Habs still too small and without grit?

  4. Habitant in Surrey says:

    Sean Gordon,Globe & Mail: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/brendan-shanahan-dropped-the-ball-on-malone-hit/article2189358/

    …Sean is likely a biased Habs Fan, but He sees it like I see it, …so good to see someOne in the media agrees

    Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049

  5. Mark C says:

    I see that many HIO’ers missed their daily nap in between lunch and recess…

  6. Bill J says:

    Yikes, another water pistol fight ?

    Dave & Andrew, you’ve both been here for some time now. Just agree to disagree. Way too much arguing over a silly topic.

    We all want a big bruising offensively talented forward. They don’t grow on tree’s and typically the teams that have them. Do not want to let them walk for nothing.

    That all being said, I think Avery being waived is an indication that cheap shot artists are on the wrong end of the hockey stick now. And more will lose their jobs.

    So unless the Habs have a able bodied talented offensively gritty player available to pick up. This topic is 100% moot.

    Edit: MJ, I don’t know you… But my opinion being what it’s worth (not much)I will still share.

    When you constantly resort to calling someone an ass, your point loses it’s value. Either you can prove your point with a solid argument or you can resort to name calling to entice others into believing what you’ve said.

    People here are pretty smart, it is worth questioning to better understand ones opinion or argument, and being open minded to the fact that your opinion is not always the only logical one.


    If you want to add an avatar here, read this and follow the steps

    Go Habs Go!

    • j0nHABS says:

      +1
      I haven’t seen such a sad display of childish behavior like that ever……

    • habsnyc says:

      I think Avery was waived because he scored 3 goals on 137 shots last season which was the worst shooting percentage by a forward (min 100 shots) in the NHL. It has nothing to do with being a cheap shot artist or being a hated player. His talent level is not commensurate with his cap space.

      • Bill J says:

        So your saying he has no offensive talent, and we can all agree he is a cheap shot artist. Also that it is no longer financially responsible to have him on that team ?

        And you don’t think it’s because he is a grade A cheap shot artist ? Worth considering I’d say. Shouldn’t be so quick to discount it, I predict more will be let go over the next year or two.

        That “role” of player with ShanaBan on the job will soon be a thing of the past.

        Not touching the Malone one, as for me it is personal, IE I agree he messed up. But that could be the Habs colored glasses. Chara was a different story. But Malone, I can see the other p.o.v. As there’s logic to it. ShanaBan can’t ban them all, they do have to have some players on the ice. And even Malone expected to be banned, he will likely be more careful in the future. He knows he got lucky.


        If you want to add an avatar here, read this and follow the steps

        Go Habs Go!

        • habsnyc says:

          No, it has little to do with being a cheap shot artist because he does not get suspended, he is not known for taking head shots and he draws penalties. Avery is not a repeat suspension offender that I would use to define cheap shot artists.

          It was a well known fact in NY that Avery was not returning. Avery was not contributing last season. The Rangers added Richards and Rupp. If you look at the roster, there are 12 forwards on it all better statistically than Avery. The third and fourth line forwards are all younger, cheaper and better than Avery. That’s the bottom line.

  7. RGM says:

    #getchapopcornready It’s going to be a fun season here. Though I suspect if some of you don’t settle down and be a little bit more civil towards one another you may get cut before Thursday.

    ———————–
    GO HABS GO! 2011-12 is our year!

  8. Propwash says:

    All of this BS for one lousy hit that the league took a step backwards from happening again.

  9. Paulin98C says:

    Here MJ just for you:

    MJ OCTOBER 4, 2011 11:30 AM AT 11:30 AM

    Yes players like Cole, MaxPac, Yemelin (if and when he plays), White, Moen (if he feels like it) and Subban can play hard and hit hard but do I want to see Cole, MaxPac or Subban getting hurt settling a score for a dirty hit or standing up for a teammate? My answer is a clear no!

    Yemelin has clearly expressed his reluctance to fight given he’s been severely hurt in the past. So it falls to Moen who has show a great deal of reserve in settling scores when necessary and White. Given Moen’s mindset, effectively only White has the will and ability to effectively do the right thing when needed. Gorges did the brave and right thing after the Campoli hit but I am certain it will not stop Malone from doing it again next game, simply put the only thing he felt when Gorges confronted him were his fists landing on our player. Gorges should not have to do this sort of thing simply because he’s not equipped for it.

  10. DrA says:

    I would say this team has improved due to the experience the younger players acquired last year.
    I would like to see them continue to defend and protect each other. I loved the take down by Gill.
    I think Martin has the team to his liking.
    Barring significant injury they can go quite far in the playoffs, conference finals. There are many reasons to disagree with this, but I sense something huge from this group.

  11. MJ says:

    “I’m confident in saying this, you think because of my opinions on hockey that I’m a big softy, if you said half the crap to my face that you’ve said to me on this site, your opinion would drastically change.”

    Explain the content of your post AB. How do you suggest to do that?

  12. twocents says:

    TSN rates Carey Price as the third best goaltender in the league and 30th best player. I’d say that’s fair and about right.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=49960

    Look for him to move up this year.

    Sorry if this is old news.

    • savethepuck says:

      And I am having a very hard time thinking of 29 guys I would trade for him.

      “They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
      Carey Price

  13. HardHabits says:

    HIO Lexicon 101

    Moving the goalposts: defined as winning the argument

    Now I get what AB means when he says I am moving the goalposts. What he really means is I am right.

    Thanks AB for clarifying.

    • Paulin98C says:

      I think we should TANK to draft that player with PHYSICALITY.

    • ProHabs says:

      There is no way you are right HH. Because AB is never wrong.
      Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever wrong. Everyone one else is wrong. Always. You got that. He is right, you and everyone else is wrong. Dead wrong. He is right. Always.
      Now that we have that understood, Pierre Gauthier, get out there and get this team some toughness. Please. They need it desperately, it is obvious to so many.

      • Actually I freely admit when I’m wrong, it’s called having integrity.

        I thought Pacioretty was a bust going into last year, said it multiple times. I was wrong.

        I thought Halak was going to outperform Carey Price last year, I said it in the Montreal Gazette. I was wrong.

        Two examples off the top of my head. Now if you can find me a single time either you or HH admitted your were wrong on HIO, then you can go back to your BS ad hominem on me. Until then, kindly remove that unwashed foot from your mouth.

        http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

        • HardHabits says:

          Before you trot out words like integrity maybe you should retrace the little temper tantrum you had earlier.

          I’ve offered a mea culpa more than once here as well as apologies. Maybe one day you can man up and do the same.

          Until then you can deceive yourself into thinking that somehow, somewhere you are taking the higher ground. I’d say the evidence speaks to the contrary.

          • Would you like me to apologize for offering to tune you? On a hockey sight where we’re talking about fighting? Are you serious?

            Now what’s to prevent me from taking the HardHabits convenient out™? Aka “oh that was in jest”. Like that time you wrote a several paragraph diatribe about me out of nowhere making all sorts of absurd claims.

            Don’t worry HH, I wasn’t serious. I would never hit a mental patient.

            http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

          • MJ says:

            Simple things amuse simple minds Berkshire! Good luck with that IQ thing.

          • “Generic shot at intelligence.” Keep projecting.

            Who are you again?

            http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

          • HardHabits says:

            No. You can do whatever you want. If you choose to apologize it should come from within you because you recognize your behaviour as intolerant and intolerable.

            I haven’t had a fight since I was your age because I avoid them. However when I was fighting it wasn’t against pudgy little university students.

            There is no doubt in my mind that even at my age you’d have a serious run for your money with me if any chance at all unless you sucker punched me but that is besides the point. You made a threat implying that I would somehow be intimidated by you and that I’d change my tune and somehow respect you more in your presence. If anything you’ve achieved the opposite with that statement.

            I don’t have contempt for you because that is not my nature. I do however recognize that you feel in some way threatened by me and my ability to articulate in a manner with which even your University education is incapable of matching. I think you are also jealous because even though you are a blogger with EOTP it appears that my fan club at HIO is bigger than yours and I sense your frustration that I am somehow capable of swaying the court of public opinion here better than you can even with all your pseudo-credibility.

            Like I said to the now banned _Habso_ you can no more draw me into a fight than he can because I just wouldn’t participate and if by some chance you gave me no choice but to fight back I suspect you’d end up regretting it.

            So if you’re man enough to shake my hand at the summit you’re on for a shake. Until then maybe relax the Internet posturing. And if you want to have a Team Berkie versus Team HH pick-up game let’s get at it. As long as SF09 is on my team we’re golden otherwise I think I might need Yeats as a counterbalance.

          • HH, remember the thumbs feature? Yeah, that’s what I thought. You keep on pretending people like you.

            http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

          • Bill J says:

            Dave: http://bit.ly/rimzBf

            Not banned, just renamed.


            If you want to add an avatar here, read this and follow the steps

            Go Habs Go!

          • HardHabits says:

            @Bill: I thought the same thing but one is a lout and the other a lute.

            What convinces me that it’s not the same person is that I have not seen the lute say POS or threaten to punch somebody.

            OMG. It was Berkie all along!!!!!

          • HardHabits says:

            @AB: The thumbs thing was retarded and for retards.

            Any dumb ass can click up or down without the need to make a reasoned argument not to mention that anybody could click numerous times without even the need to be logged in. I’ll admit that it annoyed me that people thumbed down on my comments because they did it anonymously. It’s one of the reasons I can’t stand the Office de la Langue Francaise, because a person doesn’t have to face their accuser.

            I also feel the negativity I provoke comes from my ability to speak the truth unlike you who just tows the party line. I’d rather speak honestly and be hated for what I am than loved for what I am not. You though appear to think this is some kind of popularity contest. I barely noticed you as relevant until you started attacking me. And lets be clear. You called me out first.

            At any rate and in all honesty I’d much rather have a person like MJ on my side than 100 people who agree with you AB. I am a bit disheartened that he lowered himself to your level today and it appears that he regrets it but I wont take the bait. The difference is that you continue and feel somehow justified in being abusive.

            Look at this comment –> http://bit.ly/ohtT9R

            In fact look at the whole thread. You’ll see that any time a person replies respectfully I reply in kind. Unlike you dude. You’re an offensive little jerk lately and have been for quite some time. I don’t know what’s gotten under your skirt but I suggest you check for an infection.

            I suspect it has something to do with the Bruins winning the Cup and shattering your little misconceptions about all things NHL.

          • Your cognitive dissonance is amazing. I’m actually in disbelief how easily you do a 360 in order to be a condescending prick. You really have no position on anything aside from trying stir the pot. You write a long diatribe about how popular you are, and how that makes you influential, and therefore right, and then you say this:

            “I’d rather speak honestly and be hated for what I am than loved for what I am not. You though appear to think this is some kind of popularity contest.”

            And then you link to someone praising you… You’re so all over the map it’s unbelievable. You literally don’t know what you’re saying from one sentence to the next.

            I guess that’s why you think I’m so pigheaded or stubborn, you abandon and adopt opinions faster than you can type.

        • Are you seriously so inept that you don’t understand which replies are to which comments? The enforcer debate started in the 8-6 game against Boston, YOU WERE NOT HERE. You were not taking part. To say “Meanwhile, neither HH or myself have EVER clamored for a goon.” Is a level of confidence in your own ignorance that I really don’t understand.

          http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

        • MJ says:

          AB you’re out of line and proving how loopy you are. I quoted the text I was replying to Paulin about, don’t jump in and act like the virtual goon you claim that we advocate for the Habs to acquire.

        • Trisomy 21 says:

          Integrity is hardly the word I’d use to describe some things you’ve said around here

        • Out of line? With that comment? What was out of line about it? Perhaps my reply was on the wrong thread, it probably should have gone somewhere else instead of what you were talking about with Paul, but out of line? By saying you weren’t there?

          http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

  14. Habsrule1 says:

    I like this team. If the real team showed up for the last pre-season game, we’ll be better than ok. Tampa had basically their regular line-up and we took it to them. I could not be happier by who scored the goals and the team first attitude displayed by Gill & Gorges. Other teams will remember that this team sticks up for their teammates and even if our players are not the toughest in the league, if we show that we will not be walked all over, teams will think twice because, believe it or not, most instigators prefer not to have to fight at all, never mind the possibility of being jumped on or perhaps even double-teamed (well worth the penalty).
    All this being said, I’d love a bit more toughness. If there was a Chris Nilan type available, I’d love to have him, b ut good fighters who can score 20 goals don’t grow on trees.
    The Habs will finish 1st or 2nd in the NE, and may do some damage in the playoffs with a healthy line-up.

    Go Habs Go!!

    “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • stevieray says:

      Last year in the regular season Price won us a ” lot” of games …. we were league worse in 5 on 5 scoring and allowed more SOG than most /
      The only differance this year is Cole , who will help us . unless JM skulls him , like he did AK…. + we started the season wiith Markov….who was spectacular until his injure. So what does this season have in store …can Price ” hold the fort ” can Gomez rebound,,can Markov return to form …can DD maintain his point production and how will JM coach this team .I think Muller will be missed .
      We’ll soon find out what we have ….
      Game on

      • Habsrule1 says:

        Price was excellent there’s no doubt, but that was expected by many of us. Markov only played 7 games and he was as good as we all expected him to be. If he plays 50 this year, I think that’s 5-10 points more than last year right there. Cole will definitely help and so will a healthy Pacioretty playing a lot more than 34 games. JM is a good coach and he has made some very good coaching decisions and some that can be questioned, just like every coach in the league. I don’t think anything he will do will make the difference between the team going far in the playoffs and not. That will be up to the players to do….and I have a good feeling.
        I mean I wouldn’t mind seeing a more offensive-minded coach, but I think it’s a bit strange to entirely blame a coach with the record JM has on the Habs’ past or future woes.

        Go Habs Go!!

        “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • solomio says:

      HR 1 You remember the previous game when Habs had Budaj in net and they lost by 4 or 5 goals?
      Same thing in QC, TB had Garon in net.
      I wouldn’t put too much stock in that victory

      “I figure PG has one or 2 moves left to bring the Habs that extra step closer to perhaps being the best in the league.” – Einstein

      • Propwash says:

        The Habs pretty much dominated the entire game.

        • solomio says:

          Put the # 1 goaltender in and its a different story.

          “I figure PG has one or 2 moves left to bring the Habs that extra step closer to perhaps being the best in the league.” – Einstein

      • Habsrule1 says:

        Good point, solomio….although i think Garon is a very capable back-up. I also think Budaj is not as bad as a couple pre-season games may make him look, although, he’s never been great, I think he’ll be fine playing about 15 games.
        I don’t think many of the goals the Habs scored were weak on Garon’s part. I’m just going over them in my head and most were difficult to stop.
        Your point is well taken, but doesn’t change my mind that this team will finish in the top 5 in the conference.

        Go Habs Go!!

        “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

  15. Paulin98C says:

    MJ was saying earlier today that he doesn’t want our big boys to be tough because he doesn’t want them to get injured… He never replied to me unfortunately…

    • I saw that as well. So if we have big, tough, talented players, they can’t fight because we don’t want them hurt. But they don’t want goons. But the want fighters. Fighters who can beat up anyone and never lose. #ImaginaryPlayer.

      http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

      • Paulin98C says:

        The conversation started with the need of an enforcer and once proven wrong, now it’s about the guy who fights like a “MOOOOONSTERRRR” (P. Macguire style) but also is first line complete player who scores 50 goals, makes 100 passes and a thousand hits…

        • MJ says:

          Show me where i wrote we need a goon.

          • Paulin98C says:

            Did I write “MJ said” or did I write this conversation aka enforcers vs goons vs players that fight vs players that hit= fight score….

            You (yes you MJ) said you don’t want our physical players to play physical yet you preach physicality and want more physical players for missing physicality within our team which might lack physicality because maybe our physical players aren’t really physical…..

          • MJ says:

            Quote it. I’m here. Show me.

          • Hey MJ, let’s leave things in context eh? The ‘opinions’ I was talking about when making that statement were very specific. The way you’re phrasing the question is intentionally misleading. AKA intellectually dishonest like you usually are.

            http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

          • MJ says:

            Intellectually dishonest??? Ha ha ha ha ha

            Like you would know what that is! I wouldn’t exactly call you any of these things: accurate, polite, logical, or open minded and I am remaining polite. Meanwhile, you’re making veiled threats (ref reply to HH).

          • Was that veiled? I don’t think it was veiled. Was it a serious threat though? In context? You know, not lifting a single sentence? Yes, you’re intellectually dishonest, MJ. Completely and utterly.

            http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

          • MJ says:

            And what makes you so qualified to assess my intellectual honesty??? Is it your obvious education that by far exceeds mine??? Ha ha ha ha.

            I doubt it.

            Contrary to you Berkshire, I have the courage to be clear if I want to threaten you, so readers including you and Paulin will understand my words.

    • MJ says:

      Paulin, seems like you have trouble understanding what you read. I never said I don’t want our big boys to be tough because I don’t want them to get injured. What I said (and I’m not going to bother digging for it to quote myself verbatim, you can do that) is that I don’t want to see guys like PK, Plecks, Gorges etc fighting to defend a teammate so we don’t lose them to injury when they are not the best players to take up that challenge when needed. There many guys around the league of various caliber that can play a regular shift anywhere from the 1st the 4th line and are much better physically equipped for this challenge.

      • Paulin98C says:

        So what you’re saying is you want someone that will defend a team mate so that the players mentioned to not have to.. because you need them on the ice to produce… but that guy who will defend them is not a goon…you want him to score 20 goals too… so if that guy produces… you dont want him on the penalty bench either.. so then you need another guy who will do the same… so what you’re saying is that you want a goon without being a goon…

        Oh I get it! …..

  16. Paulin98C says:

    Physical players who can playmake, score, deke… Isn’t that what every team wants?

    Been reading the ridiculous amount of posts today about the above statement… Sorry boys but players like above you draft them, overpay on July 1st or trade the farm for them…that simple. As per having a goon on the team or enforcer or someone to instill fear in the opponent, it is useless. I played hockey and still play and I’ve never played in fear because there’s a tough guy on the other team. It might for some but in general, they don’t.

    I like my Habs this year. The addition of Cole, Pacioretty coming back, AK using his size, Subban getting another year under his belt….

    The grass is green on this side the fence too guys…

    I’m PRO AB!! Hahahaha

  17. ZepFan2 says:

    I’ve called the CFL officiating bush league for years. I now have to give credit where credit’s due.

    “CFL side judge Berezowski dismissed after ‘terrible’ call.”

    http://tinyurl.com/6clbwun

    Imagine this happening in the NHL.

    ———————————————————————-
    Welcome to the newer NHL: The National Headshot League.

  18. HardHabits says:

    Repost from below because nothing irks me more than a buried bone that get’s lost over the winter.

    As for the nuclear deterrent in the form of a sizable and gritty goon/enforcer with hockey skills that adds physicality and can either defend the zone or pop a few in.

    There is no data for proof on either side. There is evidence enough to support both positions but it’s not clear and cut. It’s like a game of chess. If a players open with e4 who’s to say e5 isn’t as good a move as c5? I can show examples where players win and lose with either combination.

    Sports like games of chess offer up a myriad of possibilities.

    What MJ is saying is that people like AB and SF09 will trot out how Savard got creamed as proof that having a deterrent in the name of a heavy weight will have no effect on injuries is a crock of shiz. It’s one example. I provide Robinson versus Schultz as another.

    It’s like arguing over e5 or c5 as a response to e4. There are too many variables to make a conclusion.

    One thing is certain there is no proof that having tough guys eliminates injuries. I happen to think having a few can at least mitigate them to a certain extent.

    One thing for certain, not having a bunch of old, soft or small players and having them replaced with young, hard and big (sounds like a case of the that’s what she saids) players can at least shift the balance of power in those games that are fought in the trenches and alleys.

    ———————-

    EDIT: What we can say is that HIO is almost evenly split down the middle on the straw man variation of the topic.

    Do you think the Canadiens should have an enforcer in the lineup this season?

    Yes (52%, 1,044 Votes)
    No (48%, 962 Votes)
    Total Voters: 2,006

    • shiram says:

      That damned Spacek…. not even 6 feet tall, probably not even 205 pounds now that his cheeks have melted, and worst of all, he will turn 38 during the season!
      He does make awesome videos on the Habs website.
      Wish he’d do more of this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udegme66uRU

      If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

    • Miltie01 says:

      Glen Metropolit did an interview in which he said that players including Gionta, Pleks and Gomer all went to Mr.Gauthier and asked him to get some toughness to put in the lineup. This is the only thing you need as evidence that some sort of tough guy is needed. Tough guys do not prevent injuries, or cheap shots. What a tough guy does is allow your skill players to feel comfortable so that their skill can be effective. Nobody can perform at their best when they are scared.

      BTW, in the same interview Metro said once Diaz gets used to the NHL rink and physical play we are going to like him alot !!!

      • Good Habit says:

        Miltie01,

        Where did you see or read this interview? I would like to take a look at it.

        My opinion on the tough guy question is that having some toughness and sandpaper is always nice, but I would much rather have a skilled lineup like the Wings over a tough team. Guys like Getzlaf and Perry don’t grow on trees. It would be nice if the Habs had drafted a player like that, but they didn’t. What they do seem to draft are skilled, fast, defensibly responsible players of average size. It seems to me that Gainey and PG have tried to model their team on Ken Holland’s Wings because they are perennial contenders. I like that thinking. We don’t need fighters. We just need to be healthy for once and to have guys play at or near their potential and we have a legitimate shot at the cup. Maybe one minor tweak at the deadline will be necessary.

      • ed lopaz says:

        you wrote: Tough guys do not prevent injuries, or cheap shots. What a tough guy does is allow your skill players to feel comfortable so that their skill can be effective. Nobody can perform at their best when they are scared.

        that is 100% true – and it is a known fact shared by everyone who has played the game.

        Habs hockey is “smart” hockey – we play 5 man defence, not just 2 – we move up the ice as a 5 man unit, we back check with 5.

    • MJ says:

      Well put HH.

      @Miltie01, totally agree. It’s management’s job to create optimum conditions for each player to perform up to his abilities. Make it happen PG.

    • The Dude says:

      Yes but also remember HH…the” no “side started running away in said Poll until the Shanny dream-weaver Habs take out!”Yes” has made great stride’s ever since. Again I look at the “NO “sides argument like a Cop who has been caught by an Iphone making sh!t up!

    • Neither Savard’s injury nor Robinson vs Schultz are evidence. They’re both anecdotes. However they are not even close to equivalent. Comparing the game today to the game in the 1970’s is exactly why your diatribes make no damn sense 90% of the time. You either don’t understand relevance or your don’t care as long as you think a point might make you look right to someone who doesn’t understand.

      To say “there is no data or proof on either side”, is basically saying “I don’t like the data that’s out there so I’m going to pretend it doesn’t exist.”.

      There are at least 20 articles on it on the arcticicehockey.com website.

      When data is compiled, it always seems to show that the purported “fact” that fighting is a deterrent is BS. Here’s a good article on it: http://theleafsnation.com/2011/7/20/do-goons-help-win-games

      What you fail to understand HH, is that the court of public opinion doesn’t matter. Neither do the opinions of specific NHL players or whatever cliche you’d like to trot out. What’s happening is there’s a question being asked, and the people who support fighting are too biased to look for answers.

      http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

      • HardHabits says:

        AB. Like I said before. I say size and grit and you say enforcers or goons. I say I am not interested in goons and enforcers and you say I am moving the goal posts.

        What you fail to understand is the content of my diatribes.

        Read one book and its plagiarism, read two and its research.

        I used the term “sizable and gritty goon/enforcer with hockey skills that adds physicality” sarcastically and because I knew you’d respond with the same inconsequential response you’ve been sticking to like white on rice for the past since I don’t care to look back that far.

        The Habs players want it. BG went out and got BGL for the same reason. That it backfired had nothing to do with the concept but with the application or lack thereof.

        Honestly AB, you are possibly my least favourite commentator here because not only are you inflexible and have nothing really interesting to say but you seem to think that because your Internet buddies agree with you or support your lack of ideas that you are in some way relevant. I think you should stick to trolling the NESN message boards because at least there nobody actually has an intelligent response and you can feel secure in the knowledge that you schooled a brotherhood of intellectual morons.

        There is no proof that there is a God Andrew. There also is no proof that there isn’t one. Arguing over God’s existence is however still more futile than arguing that the Habs need to beef up, more specifically that they need some serious heavy weight nastiness in the form that hopefully Tinordi will bring. I am also saying that Tinordi alone is not enough.

        Let me be clear. I am not in favour of having a goon/enforcer and I voted no in that poll. The types of players I want on the Habs are a far more complex creature. One quality they have though is size and grit with added physicality coupled with talent and skill. Apparently the players also want it.

        Many people here share my view. Many people share yours. I am confident in saying this. If both sides were to play pick-up hockey my team would destroy yours.

        • MJ says:

          ha ha ha good one HH.

          I’d like to add that anyone that has ever played a contact sport knows that physical intimidation (through a hard hit for example) and getting in your opponents head and being able to back it up in ever way with talent (scoring and defending) and physicality in the necessary doses (fighting if you must) makes a huge difference.

        • If you actually looked at that article OR read my post, you’d notice that the only mention of “goon” was an inconsequential description of a dedicated fighter. The data represented is fights, not goons. But you know, reading something that you don’t already agree seems to make your brain implode so maybe I’ll stop trying.

          As per usual I bring up evidence, and you respond with “NANANANA I’M NOT LISTENING! YOU’RE ON TWITTER AND THINK YOU’RE SMART AND EVIDENCE DOESN’T MATTER BECAUSE I’M HH”, while throwing out a few red herring to distract idiots from the fact that you didn’t actually make a rebuttal. If you had any reading comprehension skills you’d notice I did not even mention the word goon in that post.

          As to your last irrelevant point, I love your veiled threats. It’s so funny to me. “I’m HH, let’s make a bold statement that can never be tested”. I’m confident in saying this, you think because of my opinions on hockey that I’m a big softy, if you said half the crap to my face that you’ve said to me on this site, your opinion would drastically change.

          http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

          • MJ says:

            “I’m confident in saying this, you think because of my opinions on hockey that I’m a big softy, if you said half the crap to my face that you’ve said to me on this site, your opinion would drastically change.”

            How do you suggest to change HH’s opinions if he were to state them to you in person?

          • HardHabits says:

            You really are too much AB. I say my team would destroy yours which is not a veiled threat but trash talk. I never said I would pummel you into the boards although I will admit that the thought is starting to cross my mind. What I said is my team would beat (as in destroy) yours. There is a huge difference. The suggestion is that team HH would not just be grittier, even though it had the smallest player on it, that being me, than Team Berkie, but would also be more skilled and win where it counted, on the scoreboard.

            And then you make a veiled threat in response suggesting that somehow you would intimidate me into changing my opinion of you. If anything my opinion of you is lessening with each pig headed response you make.

            I’ll be at the summit Internet tough guy. If you like I can call you fatso to your face. You can call me midget too if you like. The difference is I could care less what words you use against me but it appears like you’d be ready to take the discussion outside.

            Sad really. Very. Very. Sad.

          • MJ says:

            @ AB, very. You owe us an explanation.

          • MJ says:

            @HH, pretty sure AB has lost the plot on us. His replies are turning to aggression, meanwhile he’s advocating that we don’t need aggression on an NHL hockey team. Kinda ironic.

          • HardHabits says:

            @MJ: I totally see the irony. If this goes on any more AB is going to throw his computer out the window and cry, “I’m not playing anymore!”

          • HH, do I really need to go back over the last few months to dig up all the character assassination you’ve been throwing my way?

            http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

          • HardHabits says:

            AB. If you had to endure half the abuse I’ve taken here I imagine you’d sell your computer and become a monk. Be my guest. I’d love to relive some of my finer moments and comments. If only for shiznits and giggles.

            You take yourself way too seriously dude. I hope you learn to lighten up a bit and toughen that thin skin of yours (may I suggest a low fat diet and some exercise… you see lad… that’s a joke). There is no better reply than one that makes your opponent and maybe the rest of us laugh.

            Now I know that is a difficult skill to learn but since you’ve decided to accept my challenge you should at least learn from your nemesis and adapt to the game.

            Otherwise you will continue appearing like a petulant little child.

          • A petulant little child goes on an internet forum and calls people out repeatedly. Oh wait, that’s what you do! I believe the only reason I commented at all today is because you called me out by name. How adorably attention seeking.

            You say I’m your least favourite poster, HH. But you call out to me every single day for attention.

            http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

      • MJ says:

        Ok AB, here we go again. Buddy you’re speaking about fighting and referring us to an article about goons. Meanwhile, neither HH or myself have EVER clamored for a goon.

        About the data you present as evidence, as someone that has done quite a bit of research (not referring to hockey here), I know a thing or two about what is defined as evidence, an article written by journalist is not evidence. Scientific data is evidence and I doubt anyone has that as it would constitute a phd thesis subject in itself. A newspaper article about fighting generally relays the opinion of the journalist.

        Physical, gritty players that play a regular shift and can drop the gloves if necessary(a win most of the time) are hardly goons. Hey and if a journo’s opinion is evidence, I’ll point you to Boone’s play by play commentary on the TB game where he said before the Campoli incident “Malone is the kind of player the habs can use” (paraphrased), do you call that evidence?

        • The title of the article says goons, the data in the article is about all fights. Please read it before dismissing it. You obviously haven’t read it or looked at the data if you’re saying it’s just biased opinion.

          “Meanwhile, neither HH or myself have EVER clamored for a goon.”

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

          You really are new here.

          http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

          • shiram says:

            Quoting that piece : ” However, I think both theory and the evidence suggest that the best way to do that is to have good hockey players who are also tough, not goons.”

            That line seems to be along the lines of what HH is always preaching…

            If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

          • HardHabits says:

            Merci bien Shiram!!!

          • shiram says:

            Np, hope you read the piece HH, it is interesting.

            If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

          • Yes, that’s what HH says when it’s convenient. Because you know, NO ONE other than HH and MJ wants big, tough hockey players who can score right? Right? It’s a completely moronic point to even bring up.

            http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

          • shiram says:

            The whole of the argument is getting very tedious.
            But you posted a piece that aligns with what he is saying.
            Meh… I know how I feel about the issue, and am comfortable with that.

            If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

          • MJ says:

            AB, the article is about goons, I quote “There are two traditional justifications for one-dimensional fighters at the NHL level: (1) fighters protect and provide space for skilled players (“protection”); and (2) fighters can inspire a team with a winning bout (“inspiration”). I intend to test those justifications.” – One dimensional fighters.

            “with the instigator rule goons can be effectively neutralized” – goon.

            “Is there any discernible effect of fighting in general, and employing a “goon” in particular, over an entire season?” – goon again.

            Also having a few graphs doesn’t constitute scientific evidence. Also, they’re evaluating the impact of a fight on the outcome of a Leafs game, that opens a new can of worms. As I’ve said before, neither HH or I are advocating goonery in other words fighting for the sake of gooning it up is not even close to what we’d like to see. Also, you’re forgetting the talent level on the Leafs, no amount of fighting will help them win a game, the Habs have some real talent and depth, talent that needs to feel safer to perform at an optimum level.

          • MJ says:

            AB you think it’s a moronic point to bring up? Maybe that explains why neither HH, myself or any of the people that agree with us can understand what do you keep on arguing about then? What is your point?

          • This is just truly hilarious, MJ. “there is no evidence”

            Here’s some evidence.

            “That’s not evidence it’s just opinion”

            It’s raw data assembled and correlated.

            “that’s not scientific enough”

            Ok man. I’m done. This is officially the dumbest argument I’ve ever seen in my life. The burden of proof is technically on the pro-fight crowd anyway. Until you find some scientific evidence to prove that a) fighting can change the course of a game or b) fighting prevents injuries or deters cheap shots, I’m saying you’re completely full of sh!t.

            http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

          • MJ says:

            Dumbest argument you’ve ever been involved in? Well let’s just say that you didn’t exactly contribute to elevate it to a higher intellectual plane.

            “The burden of proof is technically on the pro-fight crowd anyway. Until you find some scientific evidence to prove that a) fighting can change the course of a game or b) fighting prevents injuries or deters cheap shots, I’m saying you’re completely full of sh!t.”

            Why exactly is the burden of proof on the other party? Because you say so? And while we’re on the subject, when are you going to get it that WE ARE NOT pro-fight? Also, we never said we had scientific evidence what we did say however is that history (old and new) has taught us some lessons.

            Now as far as me being full of it, I won’t even dignify that statement with a reply in kind.

          • The burden of proof lies with those making the claim. The claim is fighting prevents cheap shots. Now you’re saying that’s not what you said. Moving the goalposts because you’re intellectually dishonest.

            http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

          • HardHabits says:

            Nobody says fighting prevents cheap shots. They may however mitigate them. But we’re in a loop here. Too bad AB because you are one dense dude albeit with some promise and hope.

            That is why I have taken you on as a personal pet project. To school you in the ways of critical thinking and in how to not sound like a pompous ass. Much work is needed yet but I know you are capable of it.

        • HardHabits says:

          It’s only a dumb argument because AB added his two cents. Up until his non-contribution it was an interesting debate and IMO the topic is not just interesting but very relevant.

      • Trisomy 21 says:

        LOL AB you see a couple of graphs and suddenly think this is good data? look at all scientific research, just because a study is done doesn’t mean it was done accurately. So the study showed teams with more fighters have more injuries, does that mean that the fighter is getting injured and that counts towards the team? are they getting injuries from falling awkwardly into the boards or are they being attacked? What’s to say the people who start fights aren’t replacing the players who are already injured and are the ones who score more points?

        Boston was 2nd lowest in man games lost to injuries last season and they were in second for fighting majors! Dallas is another great example. And then if you look at some of the other teams who have a high number of man games lost due to injury and high number of fighting majors, you can look at it as the people brought up to replace some of the injured players are just deadbolts who feel they need to fight to contribute.I forget the name of the guy in Pittsburgh who was a perfect example, but they did some airtime on him during the 24/7 series, maybe you can remember.
        Not to mention again that your your small, closed mind keeps thinking people are wanting a goon when really it’s sandpaper and people who can hold their own in a fight we are looking for. Not Mike Brown, Philippe Dupuis, Darryl Boyce, Mike Zigomanis, Joey Crabb, Colton Orr and Jay Rosehill

    • savethepuck says:

      I have no problem with physical players on our team, and I know you keep reiterating you don’t want a goon or an enforcer, you just want someone who is a good tough player who can drop the gloves when needed. What I don’t understand is how I’m contantly reading on here that having a guy who can kick the shit out of someone is in any way a deterrent to someone taking out one of our players. An idiot is an idiot, a douche is a douche, a dirty hockey player is a dirty hockey player. I in no way shape or form can imagine why an idiot is not going to inflict a cheap shot when he has the chance that could potentially end a career of someone just because he may get a punch in the face. It makes no sense to me. I’ve been punched in the face before, what’s the big deal, I’ve been hurt much worse by sports injuries. Some of these guys we are supposed t be enforcing are getting paid a million/year or more to take punches in the face. You want a deterrent to these idiots, take away their careers or their money they earn by being idiots in the form of hefty suspensions and not threaten them with just a fat lip.

      “They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
      Carey Price

    • Trisomy 21 says:

      You know HH, sometimes you say a lot of whacky poop here. But this… this is right on the money in my opinion. I tried in the past to explain this train of thought, you did a better job of it.

  19. HABitat4humanity says:

    Moen, White & Avery 4th checking line!

  20. HabinBurlington says:

    Connolly apparantly told Wilson he is doubtful for Thursdays game against our Habs. hehe let the rumbles begin about this guy, fans in Buffalo were not sorry to see him go.

  21. Ian Cobb says:

    We have 4 lines, as good as anyone in the league. And 6 great D to go along with these lines. Not too mention our goal tender.

    But can he coach 4 lines,? That remains to be seen!
    After coaching two line teams his whole career?
    How will he do?
    Failure this year, will not be because of the lack of talent on the club.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Good to see you posting Ian, all the best!

    • HardHabits says:

      Of course not Ian. It’ll be due to the lack of size and grit…

      JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!

    • bleedhabs81 says:

      Ahh Ian. I respect you, but never fully agree with you.

      Right now, we do not have 4 lines that are as good as everyone. Not yet. We might when we get Eller and White back and see how they do in their second full season. I expect some growing pains from both of these guys. Our top line is not as good as some other teams but we have the potential for three 2A 2B 2C type of lines (again, when Eller gets back and if he plays like he did at the end of last year). That is some nice depth to have…. though, I would love a solid top line and then Pleks on line 2… how sweet would that team be?

      We do have great D, when (if) Markov is healthy. Until then, we have a promising D that is missing one All-Star player. I love PK, but he looked like he forgot a little about D and focused to much on offence (at least the one game I watched). smooth like butter though!

  22. HabinBurlington says:

    So philly saves about 1.25million in caphit by sending Schenn down for 1 game in the ahl. Look for him to be called back up shortly.

    Dreger tweeting about it on TSN twitter

  23. Gerry H says:

    I don’t think people should panic about Cole on the third line. I think it’s just a matter of Cole being more flexible than AK. Without the right linemates, Kostitsyn disappears, while Cole seems to be more effective in more situations. Recalling the great Chemistry he had with Eller last year, I’m guessing that’s where AK will end up when Larry gets back and Cole we go where he belongs, with Plekanec and Cammalleri.

  24. Timo says:

    Ok… iPhone question. I just went on apple site and they no longer seem to be selling old iPhone4 with 16 or 32Gs. WTF? So is the only thing availbel from the apple store is the new iphone?

    • tobbs says:

      Yep. Similar to Gomez. The Gomez that sucked last year is no longer available, only the new and improved Gomez is available to play

    • Mattyleg says:

      What are you talking about? There was never an iPhone 4.
      Repeat after me: “There was never an iPhone 4″

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • AK_PK_Usay says:

      Apple’s website is FUBAR for now, new Iphone 4S just got announced a few hours ago.

      You will be able to buy an 8 gig Iphone 4 soon enough for 99…

      My take, if you just want a good smartphone, get the 8gig or galaxy2

      If you travel a lot, get the iphone 4S as it will be a world phone with both cdma and gsm.

    • AK_PK_Usay says:

      Also, hope you’re not buying into the whole cellphone camera crap… a 100$ point and shooter will mop the floor with any and all cellphone cameras, even the nokia N8.

  25. sevenman says:

    $4.5 mil for a 3rd line winger, Hmmmmmm………

  26. kmachabs27 says:

    WHERE THE EFF IS MARKOV??? any updates on when hes gunna be back……??

  27. HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

    moen isnt bad, i think if you give moen another guy like himself on his line,(4th not 1st JM) then it can be a strong energy line, with some PK talent. moen isnt supposed to be a great player, hes supposed to fill those bottem 7 minutes with quality ice time, if u had him with another strong, no BS player who maybe is a bit bigger and scrapier, other teams will think twice.

  28. diehardhab says:

    What does the commentariat think about Blair Betts on waivers? I would take him and send Engqvist to hamilton. Betts can be on the first unit PK and oh ya he’s 6’3, 210!

    The torch be yours to hold it high!

  29. Marcusman says:

    Stupid question but is Yemelin hurt? I must of missed it or did he drop in the depth chart?

    • AK_PK_Usay says:

      As you will recall JM is NOT patient with rookies… except for some weird reason Enqwist…

      But year, Yemelin is not up to speed at this point in time and sadly he cant be sent to Hamilton to practice for a month or 2…

      Best we can hope is that Markov can help him out with advice for now.

    • HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

      too bad there aren’t many good coaches out there. I like what JM instilled now time to get the guy to finish what he started. Light a fire under the teams ass, and get them focused on the cup.

  30. AK_PK_Usay says:

    Top 3 lines have the most talent in MANY years…

    4th line should be darche white(as center) and webber, that’s quite a lot of skill on a 4th line and very defensively responsible. Moen just lost his touch last year in my eyes. But he makes a great 4th guy and they can all swap around.

    Enqwist needs more AHL, and Palushaj definitely needs more AHL and to bulk up, never saw a habs player so afraid of physical contact.

    I like yemelin, but along with ice adjustment, the language barrier seems pretty serious.

    • HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

      yeah youre right about the talent, but cole on the third line is a joke, they should give him one of our 2 passing centers. darche does alot of good things but hes replacing AK and COle on the PP last game? thats stupid, plek on the point is weak as well. PG had a chance to have a healthy player in wiz there and he rolled the dice for 4 years instead. if JM wants to role 3 scring lines a la bruins. he should use 3 pp units as well, those guys deserve it, and JM never gives a bone to his hard working dogs, safe, end of games.

      I think we all saw what AK cam and pleks can do last year, and we complained alot. Why anrt we trying our new 4 million dollar investment, i mean cole will be here for awhile and the earlier he start getting chemistry ( I think with gomez works best) the better.

      I dont want to see moen on my top line anymore, i dont wanna see darche on the pp before cole and AK. I wanna see gio taking shots on the pp and not parked in front on the net.

      I think the team is solid enough defensively, and we could use change, similiar wo what chicago did when letting go of savard for quennville for cup. The change of a coach might do this team some good, open up the game, and use our team speed a litttle more.

      they should try to get legimate 20 goal scorer or deveolop a prospect on the top 2 (or 3 scoring lines) and let him develop. Now I dont know which coached are available , I doubt there is much to choose from, and I dont think Roy will be mature enough for the job, the I feel like its time.

      • AK_PK_Usay says:

        Good post i agree, especially about the PP.

        Some posters brought up the fact Habs have A LOT of speed yet are often stuck playing a Dgame, which negates one of their only advantage…

        Roy was a great player, BUT, he was a poor human being (wife beatings etc) and similarly questionable coach in the Q…

  31. shiram says:

    MaxPac hopes to capitalize on the new Gomez.
    The new Gomez you say? Yes this new Gomez apparently shoots the puck at the net. So MaxPac will crash the net on Gomez’s shot to the net and goals will ensue.

    Yahoo news..

    If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

    • savethepuck says:

      Watching preseason, I not only noticed Gomez shooting the puck more, I also noticed him actually going to the net more than I’ve seen in the past fighting for rebounds etc…

      “They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
      Carey Price

    • diehardhab says:

      Shiram,

      Have you ever had the dunn’s poutine topped with smoked meat? Been hearing some good things.

      The torch be yours to hold it high!

      • shiram says:

        Yea, it’s alright, but mostly because of the smoked-meat.
        Fries are average, sauce is thin, and the cheese does not squeek.

        I tried poutineville last week-end and was disapointed, it was ok, but not worthy of mention in a “best of…” category.
        Recommend the squashed fries if you go there.

        If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

    • HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

      gomez actually has a good shot, he needs to use it all season, and keep the goalies and Dmen guessing.

      If he does, he can pot 20. then we can trade him for something lol.

  32. SmartDog says:

    THUMBS UP:
    – AK on the 2nd line; Cole on the 3rd. Give AK a chance to show he’s come to play, and Cole a chance to bring life to the 3rd line. It doesn’t have to be permanent.
    – Plekanec on the point on the PP. The man is good, has good judgement. Let him create offense and be there for mistakes.
    THUMBS DOWN:
    – Shanahan. You were so close to changing things. Now you’re just another excuse-making suit, who thinks you can spin sh$t and people will swallow it. Dunno who stuck the collar on ya, but apparently, it fits.
    – Moen. Moen’s not useful anymore. Can’t score, can’t fight, can’t control the puck. He’s just not.
    SD

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • DearyLeary says:

      Cole provides speed and pressure at a more consistent level than Kostitsyn. He’s also equally capable of scoring goals.

      Kostitsyn played well with Eller last year, along with Desharnais that line should provide some pop that we lacked on the third line.

      • AK_PK_Usay says:

        AK needs to tune that puck protecting skill he showed us a few times in the O Zone. AND his C should pass him when he’s open, too many times he gets passes while he’s being covered, never got that…

        And then i see him available and the C clearing behind the net… AK biggest issue is he can’t adapt to styles different from his own, basically when the players do what he expects he plays, when he doesnt agree with something, he just pouts…

        Which brings me to Eller, he’s very smart, and the reason he clicked with AK is simple, he would play to AK strengths and not to what AK SHOULD be playing… DD is great, but not with AK, altho on the wing should do fine.

        NO MORE MOEN ON TOP 3 FFS!

    • HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

      cole outclasses his linemates by a large margin. DD cant keep up with him. cole is good at chipping it on the board. ss and darche run the cycle not coles game. Cole with Gomez would be great. and put gio with kostitsyn on the 3rd.

  33. G-Man says:

    It’s a good thing that Moen’s back. Wouldn’t have anything to talk about else. ;)

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I don’t know why there is a such a massive hate on for Moen by so many. The guy was asked to play bigger minutes last year in roles he was not suited for due to injury.

      With Maxpac and Cole, Moen can now play the 4th line grinder he was signed to be. I expect we see a more effective Moen this year.

      • Trisomy 21 says:

        Thank you, I’ve said this before and I don’t understand why people expected him to produce on the 2nd line. He’s a grinder, he did his job last year and he was in over his head when he had to fill in for the top 6. Just because he won a Stanley cup doesn’t mean he is suddenly elite, let’s not forget his role in Anaheim. When he’s on the 4th line, he does his job well.

    • Maksimir says:

      Ha! You’re right – 216 comments on a no real news routine post. Can’t wait until Friday after the Leafs game!

  34. Maksimir says:

    Just to switch up topics for a moment – I think I like the new line combo:

    Cole – Desharnais – Darche

    If the mesh… Desh. is a crafty little playmaker, Cole brings size and finishing touch while Darche can bang along the boards and crowd the crease. Hope it works out…

  35. SeriousFan09 says:

    You know, for a guy who actually updates on things I don’t thinkl belong in the game (Tinordi’s fight videos), on the growing size of Montreal’s prospect chart, it amazes me how people think I have something against the team getting tougher when I’ve been pushing for an increase in the team’s drafting recruitment of power forwards.

    I don’t, I have an issue with toughness being mistaken for something else and people thinking that Montreal could get away with the Street Gang antics the Bruins pulled last year. This team is under an eternal microscope for criticism. PK Subban can’t ‘golf-swing’ a non-playoff team without being a public enemy for all time. He can’t pop Evgeni Malkin eight times in the face either and laugh about it without facing consequences. Cammalleri can’t score a goal and flip off an opposing crowd. Plekanec can’t get into an alteraction with a fan and walk away from it. Travis Moen and Ryan White can’t grab the two oldest defencemen on another team and keep punching them even when they’re going down without facing consequences. And most important THERE IS NO ONE IN THE NHL WHO CAN INTIMIDATE ZDENO CHARA FROM NOT DOING WHAT HE WANTS TO DO. I don’t like using Caps but people are still under that belief. If you think the Canadiens could have walked away from the Bruins highlight reel of Douchebaggery last year, I have a lovely bridge in New York to sell you, it does need some work though.

    – I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
    SF09 on Twitter

    • Bripro says:

      Do you have any specs or images of that bridge?
      How much do you want for it? Is it strategically placed near the NHL head office? Can is support Buttman’s weight (and is there an area to tie a noose)?

    • Timo says:

      Maybe no intimidate Chara, but definitely hit him on his knees and end his career. I’d be ok with that.

    • That’s because the only way those people can support their point is to strawman your argument.

      http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

    • Chorske says:

      More evidence: that awful night in February, White had already served Marchand up with a beating for putting a knee out on Subban. Lesson learned, right? Wrong. Later that game Chara breaks Pacioretty’s neck. White’s actions on Marchand did nothing to prevent Pacioretty’s injury, did nothing to deter Chara.

    • HardHabits says:

      Maybe start agreeing with somebody when they say it rather than disagree with them.

      I don’t hear you nodding yes to MJ. Rather you refute his arguments. It’s a perception that you leave with the comments you make.

      I have read otherwise from you so I don’t jump to conclusions but you are a rare breed here SF09 as you are one of the few bandwagoneers who is willing to notice when the wagon has a flat or is out of gas. The way others describe it the Habs bandwagon is in full flight and soaring to the stars. There are others that say the bandwagon has run into the water and is sinking fast. I am in neither camp.

      I personally could care less about waving my Habs flag higher than everybody else or thumping the CH on my chest. I calls things as I sees them.

      If the Habs suck I acknowledge it. If they rock ditto. However if they get their clocks rocked I ask why rather than sweep it under the rug and blame the evil other guy.

      The Habs can’t control what the Bruins do or how they play. They can only respond to it. Back in the day there was a team called the Big Bad Bruins. That team got owned by the Flying Frenchmen.

      Not so today. The Big Bad Bruins own the Speedy and Skilled Smurfs.

      Why? No push back from the Habs. All the Habs can do is try and weather the storm and hope the roof doesn’t fly off or the foundation crumbles.

      I don’t like that playing to not lose mentality. I prefer a more pro-active method.

      • Chorske says:

        The Habs can’t control what the Bruins do or how they play. They can only respond to it.

        I would view this a different way: that the Habs should NEVER respond to the Bruins or how they play- that Vancouver fell into that trap in the finals and look where it got them: they got away from their game plan and sucked. I would rephrase this as The habs can’t control what the Bruins do or how they play, they can only control how they respond to it and stick to their game plan. I prefer the more disciplined approach. Getting suckered into indiscipline- by responding in kind- is what cost us the series against Boston.

        • twilighthours says:

          I don’t agree that Vancouver tried to respond to the Bruins’ crap – quite the contrary: the Canucks did nothing. They didn’t respond. They didn’t not respond. They were the complete absence of anything resembling hockey. I would have already forgotten them if they were so horrific and embarrassing.

          ————————————–
          If you’re sick of not being able to view the HIO comment structure from your iPhone, try downloading Mercury browser. If you have alternative suggestions, please send them along!

        • The Dude says:

          Chorske ,Vancouver was plumb wore out and playing Boston finished it,period . That’s what they do!

      • SeriousFan09 says:

        I argue against us trying to match and deliver with the suggestion we need to go to street gang antics and that Montreal does nothing to prepare itself to get tougher. That’s not what the drafting strategy says, not what our recruitment strategy has been for a couple years now. Saying the Bruins are not playing the game like they are a street gang is a joke (which is what MJ is implying), that was their entire strategy for the season. Saying they are badasses for picking fights with Hamrlik and Spacek? Ha. Ha. Ha. Sucker-punching Sedin, Hedman and Moore? Pause for laughter again. I still don’t see how the Flyers have been intimidating Montreal, what I’ve seen is their scoring depth being too deep to counter for most of the games we’ve faced with them while their D keeps ours boxed out, being much better than ours. Pittsburgh’s toughness on D resonated ENTIRELY from Brooks Orpik during their Cup run. Cooke isn’t tough, he’s a sociopath and none of the rest of their forwards can really provide any more toughness than the guys Montreal has lined up for the season. Chicago had toughness for sure, but it came down to their depth being at the level where Philidelphia couldn’t play their 3rd defence pairing without getting murdered on a score sheet while Keith led one of the best defensive efforts I’ve ever seen.

        I don’t want Lucic on this team because as I’ve stated this before, I can’t stand the D-bags in this league, never have and I never will. He wasn’t even a difference maker for the Bruins in the post-season is what makes it a real laugher. The fact that you say below you want Chara on this team is insanity, the man tried to end Pacioretty’s career not even a year ago and you want that ape soiling the CH?

        If the Habs didn’t push back, they’d never have had any wins in the playoffs in the last two years. If people think this team won’t be a bit more punishing, that it hasn’t learned lessons by choosing to pack two power forwards and keeping a guy like White on a 1-way deal is them not learning than I don’t see how you can say you’re paying attention to the team’s plans. They know what to do, but saying we need the street gang types is not something I will ever go along with.

        – I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
        SF09 on Twitter

      • Jordio-oh says:

        For the record (and can everyone please remember this):

        The average bruins forward is 6’1, 200lbs. The average Hab is 6’0, 198.

        That is the difference between Dan Paille and Ryan White.

        The average bruins defenceman is 74.5 inches and 215 lbs. The average Hab defenceman is 73.5 inches and 215lbs.

        That is the difference between Tyler Segiun and Chris Campoli (both aren’t D-men but the comparison remains).

        The notion that the Bruins are bigger than us is a myth. I agree that on average, and inch can be considered substantial depending on who you ask, but it seems miniscule when using direct player comparisons.

        And there is almost not difference in average weights between our teams.

        • MJ says:

          I love the use of facts! Ok so it’s fact we’re about the same size as the bruins, good on management for making this team bigger than it used to be. Issue now is we need the attitude to go along with it, the desire to crash the net and hit hard. Our biggest player by far is Gill (who I like btw), while he’s defensively responsible and has a lot of qualities that are admirable, can anyone here describe him as a physical presence? We all know who’s the biggest on the Bs and how he plays. Does anyone have the number of hits for each player on the Habs and Bruins so we can have factual comparison here?

          The issue as you’ve clarified (and as I see it) is not size, it’s physicality (nod to you HH).

    • The Dude says:

      Bostons job was to get the Cup and that they did.Now if Robert you were Habs Management and felt that your idea of how Habs hockey should be played might cost them a Stanley Cup or EVEN WORSE DID COST THEM A STANLEY CUP ..I would be just as pissed at you as I am with Chocula and Soyboy. Again their job is too win a Cup and not try an convey how they think the game should be played!

  36. shiram says:

    Pacciorrety and Subban fight in practice.
    http://fr.canoe.ca/sports/nouvelles/hockey/lnh/archives/2011/10/20111004-114922.html

    They say it’s cool and are still buddies, they just wish the season would start already.

    Can’t say i disagree with ‘em.
    If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

  37. ktronlondon says:

    Going to the Season opener against Toronto on Thursday! too excited

    GO HABS GO!

  38. Timo says:

    Is having Moen back like as good as having Gomez? I think both of them are great.

  39. Maksimir says:

    Hmmm.. Victor Oreskovich on waivers.. I say drop Moen and pick him up.. bigger, tougher and younger…

  40. zak says:

    We’ll be fightng for a playoff spot this year. If cary doesn’t have another great year we’re out

  41. p_gagnon17 says:

    Four Habs Fans are closing up shop it seems…

    I know I’ve been shamelessly amused by their ranting and women for a couple of years now and gave them a salute in their comments.

    I’d suggest anybody here who enjoyed their work should do the same.

    Work just got more boring…

  42. Ghosts of the Forum says:

    What do Abe Lincoln and the Leafs have in common?

    Neither of them can finish a play.

  43. Natrous says:

    Does anyone know of a decent depth chart online that they reference for other NHL teams? I just visited the Yahoo! fantasy website for the Blue Jackets, and the list Rick Nash as 3rd line LW. Argh.

    • Jordio-oh says:

      If you like Yahoo, go to the team you want to see the depth chart for. Then click “Team report” and then click “Roster report”.

      This will show you the lines each coach used in their last game.

      Right now they have Nash with Carter and Prospal but that is only a pre-season projection.

      Dobber hockey is also a suitable website to show you how often which player plays with another player. And I’ve been told Left Wing Lock is another choice.

  44. cuzzie says:

    Blunden has been released . Anyone have more info?

    Stay Thirsty My Friends!

  45. avatar_58 says:

    Btw if Avery does go to the AHL I’m going to some bulldogs games and starting an “aaaaaaaaaveryyyyyyy” chant. Maybe even toss an “obscene gesture” his way when he’s looking.

    • The Dude says:

      I regret thinking this already but we should get Avery. He won’t stand around watching his team mates taking shots and he stands in front of the net like no other “Ask Brodeur”.Plus he forces his teammate’s to grow a couple ‘Right now cus their whole team is coming for us now and their pissed ,lol.’ He’s maybe …just maybe what this team needs”Gilmore mixed with psychosis”….

      • avatar_58 says:

        Yes he will, he’s all talk and nothing else. Lapierre is tougher than this clown. He deserves to be banished from the NHL and I hope one day Cooke follows him.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        The fact you believe Avery will be beneficial to this team speaks volumes. I am curious about the miracle grow he uses that magically makes teammates “grow a couple”.

        I have a dog I had fixed years ago, but the thought of breeding him is now curious. So if I let Avery walk him every day, will he too grow a couple?

        • bleedhabs81 says:

          Yup. I was in NY last year and ate at the same restaurant as Avery (right beside his table actually). After dinner I went back to my hotel and found that I had 2 additional testes.

          The curious thing was, they had their own seperate sac… So now I have to buy custom made Jocks in order to protect both pairs.

          Boxer briefs also don’t work well for me anymore. Instead of nice package definition, it now looks like an over stuffed metro car where people are smooshed against the door.

      • PrimeTime says:

        I don’t think many people including NHL pro’s share your assessment of Avery

      • zak says:

        Avery isn’t a fighter, he’s a mouth

      • Chorske says:

        Teams hate to play against Avery, not because he is fearsome, but because he is such a pathetic little yapper who never backs ANYTHING up. He is this generation’s answer to Claude Lemieux, whose effectiveness vanished as soon as opponents figured out that he was all talk, and tended to duck and cover at the slightest contact.

        Explain to me how Avery would benefit the Habs. He isn’t a scorer, he isn’t an enforcer, he gets little or no respect from the other players. He’d be crap for the room. So PLEASE, Dude. Explain away.

        • The Dude says:

          Every time Avery plays us not only does he score but causes all kinds of kayos…He’s like Lucic’s mini-me…

          • Chorske says:

            Much of the KAYOS happens in the press and inside his own team, rather than where it would be useful or desirable.

            And did you just claim that EVERY TIME AVERY PLAYS, HE SCORES? Silly, silly Rangers for dropping his sorry ass, then.

  46. HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

    why is cole on the third line? why is Darche on the PP? why is PLeks on the point?

    has JM ever done anything in the league?

    • Bob_Sacamano says:

      I can live with all that but Spacek and Diaz? Such a soft third D while Yemelin doesn´t play? Typical Jacques Martin. I´d also like to see Palushaj over Moen who was completely useless last season. Don´t get me wrong, I expected all this but it´s still very disappointing.

      • Philly-Poo says:

        Well sir, I don’t know about you, but, I watched most of the preseason games, and…. Yemelin didn’t look great at all, whereas Diaz seemed to start well and continue to develop to play even better… I would say that it’s difficult for European players to come over and feel comfortable right away, so Yemelin has that excuse… Wait… So does Diaz, yet he’s played his way into the top 6 dmen, beating out some players with NHL experience too (Weber, Woywitka, Henry.) That pairing may be “soft”, but at least they’re defensively reliable enough to keep the puck out of the net.
        Also you cry that you would rather see Palushaj (who has looked alright in the preseason) to Moen… That seems contradictory to your desire to have Yemelin in instead of Diaz… Moen brings in way more grit and a physical presence than Palushaj, and he also eats up sooo many PK minutes which helps our top forwards eat more PP and reg strength time… Just sayin’…

        • Bob_Sacamano says:

          I think Diaz has not looked as good as some say and Yemelin not as bad. The contradiction isn´t there. There´s a big difference between a third pair defenceman and a fourth line player. I just don´t want to see a soft D (Spacek and Diaz) that plays 10-15 minutes. On the other hand, the fourth line will see little action but it would be nice to have some talent on it. The grit Moen and phyical presence Moen brings, well I just saw a slow washed up Moen last season… Will he be better this time? I doubt it?

        • HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

          spacek isnt reliable for us, and you cant say diaz is either yet.

    • Hali_Hab says:

      http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Steven-Hindle/Cole–Pacioretty-Assure-Habs-Offense-Will-Have-a-Different-Look/139/38577

      Read that article, and keep in mind its practice. And i am pretty sure being nominated 3 times and winning the jack Adams once, count’s as something ? or am i just crazy ?

      “After 13 years, I couldn’t accept to be number two.“
      Guy Lafleur.

      • AK_PK_Usay says:

        You do recall that Ottawa team was all star… Yeah a lot of those players went on to suck, like redden, but at the time they had a hell of a team…

      • bleedhabs81 says:

        You said count’s… ah ah ah!

        How many times was he nominated? One, Two, Three…. ah ah ah!

        (ok, I am done with sesame street impressions)

      • el heffe says:

        Great Article. right to the point. thanks

        Charge it to the Underhill’s.

      • HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

        horrible article, if you want cole to play on the third line get him a winger, if you want him to build chemistry with a center, start now. and JM never won a cup, and has lots of first round exits.

        We all saw muller take the reigns late in games, I dont agree with thinking, if u want to have 3 balanced lines of scoring, each line needs at least 2 strong players. not cole with two local boys.

    • Mattyleg says:

      If you were coach, we would have won the Cup last year, and we’d win it again this year! And then probably for eternity!

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

  47. HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

    SO nothing can be done with the decision, we have to live with the BS of competive sport with with lots of money involved.

    Even if we could appeal, which I doubt you can do, the same people will review the hit, and nothing will be done.

    Time to ralley or move on.

  48. Mats Naslund says:

    Reason #1 to get excited about Jarred Tinordi being the Captain of the London Knights this season, and why sometimes allowing a guy to play with people his own age is advantageous for his development: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NYB38PpmYVE

  49. HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

    two moens are better then one PG

  50. RetroMikey says:

    I’ve said all along Weber does not have the physique to play in the NHL as a DMan and now Martin is putting him on the 4th line and converting him to a winger???
    Too many ifs on this team heading into the game Thursday night and with juggling lines by Martin in Collingwood, it tells me we still really need a big CMan as I have always, always, wanted on our team and the DMen are no better than last season even if Markov was in the lineup.
    So my prediction is a 7th place finish for our club with a healthy lineup.

    “We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “

  51. adamkennelly says:

    Weber as a 4th line winger…terrific way to start the season…can’t wait till JM and PG are gone and Roy is in…no chance this team gets pushed around then….

    • RGM says:

      Mark Streit was able to parlay his 4th line winger status as a Hab into a rather lucrative deal.

      ———————–
      GO HABS GO! 2011-12 is our year!

      • adamkennelly says:

        what does that have to do with anything?

        • Philly-Poo says:

          AK, RGM has a point, Streit did earn a great deal with the NYI, through playing on the 4th line and alternating on the point here. I like Streit and I also like Weber, as he does remind me a little of Streit. How does that equate to poor coaching? They helped find a niche for Streit, which helped his career. I don’t know about you, but, to me, coaching is the art of helping players achieve all that they can, whether they think they can or not. Whether that player stays on the team or not is a different story… So it has everything to do with responding to your original post… You were bleating about Weber on the 4th line, coaches and GM’s decisions, RGM said something positive that has come out of their choices, and you are too narrow minded to see his side while wishing for “Saint” Patrick to come and “rescue” the Habs. Bullhooey. Roy was a selfish, petty git who thought for no one but himself and his ego…

        • Chorske says:

          It’s pretty obvious, no? A dman who occasionally plays forward? The point being that a player of that kind of experience and breadth can be useful to a team.

    • DearyLeary says:

      You’re looking forward to missing the playoffs like the Leafs?

    • bleedhabs81 says:

      Only because Roy has a screw loose and just might jump over the boards and go all hannibal lecter on someone….

      Love Roy by the way, as a goalie.

  52. JD_ says:

    In this mornin’s Gazoo, Erik Cole talks about the Malone hit, ” ‘…On the replay I saw, it was definitely a suspendable hit.’ Cole said the most important thing the players are looking for when it comes to the crackdown is consistency. The veteran forward added that he has changed the way he thinks as a result of the crackdown. ‘I’m always to going to finish my checks, but you’re analyzing every time you hit someone. You’re trying to be conscious of the other guy’s positioning,’ Cole said.”

    This – this, damnit! – is the kind of observation that underpins just how self-defeatin’ Shanny’s decision is. Why bother triangulatin’ a reason not to suspend Malone when there is clearly a broad enough consensus that the hit was suspendable? Seriously, from a purely pragmatic standpoint, there is everythin’ to be gained from suspendin’ the guy and so very little to lose.

    Math is always the answer.

    Shanny should consider what he’s undertakin’ as, to quote the Blues Brothers, “a mission from God”. Just effin’ suspend everyone who hits the head. Don’t bother gettin’ the protractor and sextant out and runnin’ the tape like you’re investigatin’ the Kennedy assassination, just suspend the effer.

    Suspend like it’s your last suspension.

    Do it until almost everyone is thinkin’ like Cole, almost because Matt Cooke doesn’t have a cerebral feedback loop and would crosscheck Pavlov’s dogs in the face for droolin’ on him every time the bell rings.

    Hopefully, this was just a stumble and not a sign of things to come because some GM or NHLPA exec’s put a lit bag of shiz on Shanny’s doorstep.

    Give everyone a taste of the bad medicine, stay the course, a thousand points of light, and git ‘er done.

    Direct from the annals of unfortunate, albeit appropriate, wordin': I clicked on the Grope & Flail story describin’ KomiCarWreck’s continued slide down the depth chart – I didn’t know there was any down left but, apparently, there is – and the first thing I see is this, “Globe Sports | Leafs Beat”.

    Heh.

    Indeed.

  53. cojohnso80 says:

    check out how our prospects are doing on a daily basis. http://habsprospects.hockeyhq.net/index.html?playerslist.html
    Bournival is terrorizing the Q right now

  54. HabinBurlington says:

    With the Rangers currently in Europe to start the season. When they put Avery on waivers, does this mean they no longer have to fly him back to North America? Perhaps Torterella was just waiting for this trip to finally dump the village idiot off in Europe.

    • MJ says:

      Or out in the ocean :)

    • Mattyleg says:

      Haha!!
      You’ll pass him on the way into the village, sitting on a wall with a cone-shaped cap on. He’ll be waving a stick in front of your face as you try to pass him, then he’ll fall off the wall in dramatic fashion and start calling for the police.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • HABitat4humanity says:

      Moen, White & Avery 4th checking line!

      I’m tired of all the habs getting beat up. We need a Chris Nilan type player that can score & Avery can score, agitate and force dumb penalties from the opposing team.

      Avery & Cole can be the ones who park in front of the net & get the dirty goals. No one last year was able to do that.

      Georges can’t fight as we have seen and we have too many players to protect since Gill isnt Chara-esque. The habs should sign Avery to a 1 year deal & see how it pans out. I’d much rather have Avery than Campoli. Habs need to make better decisions signing new players.

      Avery is much hated but not when he is a hab.

  55. C_exacte says:

    who cares what our 4th line looks like, we always roll 3 deep come playoff time

    • krob1000 says:

      Exactly the reason the Bruins beat us…and Vancouver for that matter…..your lineup will simply not be healhty for a playoff run and depth is as important as it ever has been with the parity and the cap. Having 4 lines plus a guy or two capable of filling in adequately as guys will have to get bumped up the depth chart becomes very important as a season wears on and especially come playoff time when everyone is banged up.

      • C_exacte says:

        The reason the Bruins beat us was simple no Markov, no Gorges, no Pacioretty(Chara), no Desharnais(Boychuk/Ference), no Halpern(Ference), no Gomez(Himself), no Kostitsyn(Emo), seriously the only player we had left that was scoring for us was PK. What about all the lack of calls for the B’s?? Ference could have been given a few for the elbow or for the finger, and the reason the Canucks lost was because they’re a ONE line team, we at least have THREE when healthy.

        • C_exacte says:

          and I forgot the tug job from the Leafs, Seguin(2nd overall) for their 4th line and Kaberle for some AHL prospect, Brian Burke giftwrapped their depth.

    • HabsFan1111 says:

      Look at the top 4 teams of the last 2 seasons (Bos, Van, Chi & Philthy). SERIOUSLY deep rosters on all of those teams. Depth is a lot more important than most give credit IMO. Guys like Kelly, Torres, Buff, Burish, Versteeg, Leino had serious playoff impacts for all them, then having guys like Peverley (who would be a top 2 centre on likely any team in the league (sans Pitts)) as 3rd line centre solidifies a consistant attack.

      Roster depth = playoff depth.

  56. MJ says:

    (Reposting from the previous thread in the hopes that someone with an opposing point of view can provide what you all call “proof”)

    Why is it that a significant portion of the HIO commentariat doesn’t get that NHL hockey is a contact sport which implies that toughness, grit, intimidation, ability to stand up for ones self and teammates are all essential and equally important components of a winning hockey team as scoring ability, playmaking ability, defensive play, ability to win face offs and goaltending?

    I have wasted time engaging people over and over again in debates about the need for toughness, grit and size on the current edition of this team only for the discussion to turn to goons. Anyone can disagree with my opinion, but al least understand it first. Don’t turn it into something I didn’t say or imply and disagree on that basis while citing some “proof” that having tougher players won’t help matters. If anyone has such proof, please share it.

    Until then, here are some facts for you to chew on:
    _The Boston Bruins are the reigning Stanley Cup Champs and they play an aggressive in your face style. As much as I hate the Bruins, the Chara hit aside, one cannot describe the Bruins as a dirty team. They’re a bunch of badasses with a chip on their collective shoulder and they have talent. Like it or not.
    _ Another team that has dominated us, the Flyers, can anyone describe them as anything but tough-as-nails AND talented?
    _ How about the Vancouver Canucks? Remember them? The other team in the 2011 SCF, the team very few people think of when they they think of toughness, how many guys than can play AND throw down did they have on their team to complement their talented and gentler players?
    _ How about the Chicago Blackhawks when they went to the SCF the year before (and won it all)? No tough guys than can also play right?
    _ How about Pittsburgh and their uber talented lineup? No tough guys huh?

    Doesn’t anyone see a pattern here?

    Once again, tough guy is NOT a synonym for enforcer or goon but rather a guy that can player a regular shift on the 3rd or 4th line game in, game out AND can take care of business. If you’re lucky he can be a 1st or 2nd liner a la Lucic. If any of you can sit behind your laptop and claim that you wouldn’t take Lucic on your team, you have no clue what you’re laking about and are simply blinded by your hate for the Bruins. I would take him on my team in a heartbeat and guess what? He is a difference maker and players like him are and have always been difference makers.

    Yes players like Cole, MaxPac, Yemelin (if and when he plays), White, Moen (if he feels like it) and Subban can play hard and hit hard but do I want to see Cole, MaxPac or Subban getting hurt settling a score for a dirty hit or standing up for a teammate? My answer is a clear no!

    Yemelin has clearly expressed his reluctance to fight given he’s been severely hurt in the past. So it falls to Moen who has show a great deal of reserve in settling scores when necessary and White. Given Moen’s mindset, effectively only White has the will and ability to effectively do the right thing when needed. Gorges did the brave and right thing after the Campoli hit but I am certain it will not stop Malone from doing it again next game, simply put the only thing he felt when Gorges confronted him were his fists landing on our player. Gorges should not have to do this sort of thing simply because he’s not equipped for it.

    As long as this situation persists we’re going to have to watch our team getting pushed around year after year, finish in the middle of the pack and hope we make the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed until players like Jarred Tinordi finally reach the NHL, unless of course the GM does the very wise thing of trading him for a small, fast and talented player (ref: Ryan McDonagh).

    Unless you have REAL proof like what I’ve cited above, please don’t bother with some useless reply.

    • shiram says:

      You want to engage a discussion, but then point out that you have wasted your time in such discussions before, so basically you want to waste your time?

      If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

      • MJ says:

        LOL… not this time I won’t. Won’t bother replying to those that just want to repeat the same old thing citing “proof” that they never put forward. Anyone else will most likely get a reply from me.

        • Chorske says:

          What kind of “proof” (the fact that you put the word in brackets speaks volumes, BTW) would be enough for you? Would you accept a chart outlining the negative correlation between PIM or fighting majors, and points total for the year? Give me a benchmark (something better than you plugging your gritty tough guy ears while singing I CANT HEEEAR YOUUUUUU) so I know I’m not talking to a wall.

          • Chorske says:

            Annnnnd still waiting for an answer about exactly what kind of data / evidence would convince you, MJ.

            I’ve had similar discussions debating evolution with creationists. I ask them, what kind of evidence do you need? And they list lines of evidence, and I tell them, we already have that evidence- it is available in any basic biology text. And that’s when they plug up their ears and give big long spiels about needing more evidence.

            So I ask (again): what kind of evidence or data would convince you?

    • HabinBurlington says:

      MJ, I do wish the current edition of Habs had a bit more N.A.G., having said that I will wait until i have seen this team play at least 10-20 Regular Season games before I decry this current unit a waste or wimps or anything else.

      I have said before, this will be MaxPac’s first full season, 1st season for Cole, Moen is in contract year and will be in proper place 4th line, White gets his first full year in league and I have not given up on Yemelin.

      Yah we may have some other smaller talented players, but I am not ready to give up on them when we haven’t even seen them play a meaningful game yet.

      By the way, never have been a fan of PG or JM but they are who we got for now, I just hope BG still has influence and that Molson is watching his investment closely.

      P.S. Cant you tell your cousin Gaustad to demand a trade to Montreal already? :)

      • MJ says:

        LOL… my cousin Gaustad? I am literally laughing! He’s not my cousin although I wish there was something I could do to get him on this team!

        I’m not ready to give up on these guys either, we have a bunch of talented players on this team and I’m annoyed that PG is not doing all he should to help them reach their potential and excel. Just like in business, each individual that’s part of the team has a role to play and it’s management’s team to create optimum conditions for that to happen. When you have a guy like Gorges feeling like he needs to be the one to settle a score, that ain’t happening. These guys deserve better.

      • Chorske says:

        Ten points from Gryffindor for mentioning NAG. You oughtta be ashamed.

    • Jordio-oh says:

      Instead of telling us the problem ad nauseam, how about providing us with some solutions. World leaders can whine and complain at every international summit about sustainable development and resource management but its pointless unless solutions are put forth.

      You’ve said in earlier threads that you would have wanted Anthony Stewart in the off-season. Well here are some facts for you to chew on: Mathieu Darche had as many hits per game last season as Anthony Stewart. Moen, AK46 and White had considerably more. Anthony Stewart fought two times last year, maybe three. And the biggest one of all, who says he would even want to sign here.

      You also mentioned Paul Gaustad who signed a 4 year deal with Buffalo on July 30th, 2008 which made him unavailable to us.

      I agree with your sentiments about getting some grit (without gooning it up) but its all predicated on the possibilities to acquire the types of players you want. Being satisfied with them afterwards is a whole other issue itself. It seems many Habs fans were pleased with the addition of Moen at the time, but were then underwhelmed when he didn’t get 200 hits a year and fight anyone in sight.

      Who should we trade for? And who do we give up?
      How do we fit them into the line up?
      Do they even want to play here?

      Its quite easy to say “we need, we need, we need” and then harbour resentment towards management when they don’t provide, as if it’s so easy to acquire the types of players that most (if not all) teams are looking for.

      I highly doubt that PG purposely wants a team of small whimps because he’s a vegan and lives in Vermont. Sorry to those irrational few who are unfortunate enough to believe that.

      If you do the numbers, you will see that there are anywhere from 52000-60000 hits recorded in one nhl season by all teams. And giving the benefit of the doubt there are maybe 100 incidents of a suspendable (or close to it) offence. And people complain so much that we don’t have a guy to re-arrange another guys face when less than 1% of all bodychecks actually require a retaliation.

      I have no idea how you think intimidation and sticking up for an opponent in such infrequent circumstances is as important to a teams success at goals, assists and goaltending etc etc.

      • MJ says:

        @ Jordio-oh, I’ve repeated ad nauseam yesterday the names of several players Habs management should/ could have acquired.

        It’s management’s job to figure out how to get it done, I’m not the one that gets paid to make it happen, but I’ll tell you this: if you’ve ever worked a day in your life, you’d find out very quickly that if you don’t perform at your job (as in deliver on expectations), you’re out. No one wants excuses. I’ve heard it many times over my career “just make it happen”. So why exactly do we need to cut PG or any GM slack when others are getting it done?

        • Jordio-oh says:

          You dodged many of my points.

          For the record, the big bad bruins only registered 17 more hits than the Habs IN THE ENTIRE season last year. 17. Glad to know the “physicality” of 0.2 hits per game put them over the edge.

          I get that intimidation is an intangible, but going by the only statistics (aka proof) I have on physicality, the Bruins aren’t much more of a physical team than the Habs.

          In fact, they only out-hit us 192-188 in our playoff series.

          But I get that you guys see one big hit and go off the rails and forget that there are things as statistics to help support one’s point.

          • HardHabits says:

            Yes but when the Bruins hit the other player feels it. When the Habs hit the other player asks himself if they let mosquitoes into the arena. :D

          • HabinBurlington says:

            @HH, is that what Marchand was saying between breaths on his way to bench after Subban hit him?

          • Chorske says:

            Jordio-oh, I am not convinced MJ is actually interested in a discussion. He wants data, you give him some, and he ignores it. It’s pointless. Like JD_ says, it’s probably an oil-and-water thing and any discussion is pointless, both sides being so entrenched.

          • HardHabits says:

            We need to take this discussion outside. Way outside. Like into outer space where the lack of gravity can make plasteel a reality.

    • HardHabits says:

      There you go moving the goal posts again. ;-)

      I’ll tell you why MJ. Because there is another narrative at HIO. The narrative that size and grit equates to goons and enforcers. It doesn’t matter that it is a fabrication but it is an ongoing perception here among the group I will call the Glorieuxgoisie. They don’t understand the Prohabariat struggle because they live in a world full of comfort and have lacked ever needing to actually struggle or fight for things in their pampered lives.

      For my part I have dropped size and grit from my lexicon and replaced it with physicality. Lets see the cream puffs translate that into goonery!!!

      There is no proof either way. The only thing you and I have is our experience and with that what our guts tell us and the eventual realization that our reasoning, after careful analysis, follows suit.

      What I have gleaned from reading comments here is that many people who try and move the goal posts in their favour resort to translating size and grit into goons and enforcers because they are too afraid to confront difficult truths rather than perpetuate the sweet lie.

    • SeriousFan09 says:

      Bruins aren’t dirty? Hahaha.

      Head hit on Halpern. Picking fights with guys way under their weight class on purpose. Cheap shots between whistles, diving classes by Marchand and a head hit he was suspended for. They’re bullies who thrive on their reputation by making sure they don’t pick fights with guys they could lose to.
      – Flyers beat us more by skill than toughness really, their forward corps is so deep they don’t have to play it that way and outclassed Montreal in the last couple years with that advantage. If anything under their current coach, they’ve moved to being more of a skill team.
      – Vancouver’s tougher players can play a regular shift but it came down to not much of anything, they stood around while Daniel Sedin got punched in the face by Marchand and laughed it off as he ran over that team with his antics.
      – Blackhawks packed tougher players for the lower lines but when it came down to it, it was plain depth that really made them Champs. Their depth was what made them winners, while other teams were trying to check and play 3rd-pairing Ds, the Hawks still had scoring lines rolling and running them ragged.
      – Pittsburgh’s tough guys are exceedingly talented bench sitters in the NHL playoffs. Godard and Laraque before him were very good at watching from the press box. Their ‘big fight’ over the last few years in the playoffs was from 5’11” Max Talbot.

      Lucic wasn’t even a difference maker in the playoffs, hell Boston nearly lost the 1st round because he was a virtual ghost. Montreal has created itself a tougher lineup, time will tell what that does.

      – I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
      SF09 on Twitter

      • Jordio-oh says:

        Want to know who had more hits than Lucic in the series against the Habs?

        Lars Eller.

        Enough said.

      • DCos says:

        *nods in agreement*

        –Whining, sniveling, complaining, negative “fans” annoy me.–

      • MJ says:

        Really? Are we watching the same games? Do you really believe that the performance of all these teams is not affected by having physical players? Explain this to me then, why is it that Chicago added toughness over everything else this off season.

        And… once again you turn the discussion to goons (Godard and Laraque). I repeat, I’ll take Lucic on my team any day.

        If one team is going to pick fights with smaller guys and guys they know they’ll win their fights against as you claim the Bruins do, I’d rather it’s not done against the team I support and if my only choices are being the team that does the bullying or the one that gets bullied I’d rather be the one doing the bullying.

        • Jordio-oh says:

          The Blackhawks lost Troy Brouwer (an enormous physical presence), Jake Dowell and Tomas Kopecky. They were simply filling in holes of departed players.

          If you think Carcillo, Jamal Mayers and Sean O’Donnell are improvements, then this discussion is done.

          Besides, who you add is purely dictated by the market.

          They lost Brian Campbell and got Montador but that can be as easily attributed to the salary cap as it could to adding toughness for the sake of overall team improvment.

        • SeriousFan09 says:

          They’re definitely improved by having tougher players, but people overblow each Cup win because ‘that’ is how you win.

          And I wouldn’t call Carcillo improving CHI’s toughness, more like giving them one of the 5 biggest D-bags in the NHL and an aging Jamal Mayers isn’t sealing the deal either. Issue is even if Montreal put tough guys on the roster, Boston WOULD NOT fight them. They’d still go after the smaller players because that is what they like to do. Pick fights with guys under their weight class to soothe their egos. Than we’d say have our big guys attack their small guys, war of escalation and someone is on LTIR again because Chara decided to go sociopath agan. Issue is the league let the Bruins get away with far too much outside of wrist-slaps to Marchand and Paille. League discipline was set aside, like it was in 2007 so the brute team could win the Cup without having to play by the rules.

          – I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
          SF09 on Twitter

      • HardHabits says:

        See. There you go again. Tough players are not necessarily goons.

        Nobody calls the Bruins a despicable, dirty little team. Now why were the Habs labelled that? I’ll tell you why. Because that is their only recourse. I hate to say it but that writer was correct. The Habs have no choice but to dish out nasty cheap shots, often from behind, often after the whistle — because they are incapable of backing up the stick-work by dropping the gloves.

        Taking fighting out of the game is not going to change anything. The Habs will still get run and pushed around and eventually resort to cheap shots until they skate a few heavy weights. We all remember Cammy on Neidereiter.

        If the Bruins are bullies the Habs are the kid in school who always gets picked on and beat up.

        The Flyers beat the Habs with size and grit. The Habs had nothing left in the tank after spending it all on the Pens and Caps. They were shut out 3 times in 5 games by the Flyers!!!

        Vancouver got out coached. They tried to run and gun in Boston and were destroyed there.

        Chicago. Byfuglien.

        Pittsburgh. Malkin. Crosby. Staal. Fleury. Talent in spades. Generational talent at that. Tanking talent.

        Lucic’s biggest contribution was getting hit by Hamhuis. We all know who got the worse of that check.

        Look. SF09. I have faith in you that you are one of the few here who is lucid enough to realize that you’re not seeing things clearly yet.

        • SeriousFan09 says:

          HH, The Bruins called us that with that despicable little cheap shot pile of human excrement Brad Marchand on their team. The team that threw sucker punches at Victor Hedman and Dominic Moore in the ECF (that they got away with). That prided itself on fighting Tom Pyatt, Roman Hamrlik and Jaro Spacek in the dying minutes of a game they had won, after losing fights with Moen, Price and POULIOT. The writer in question was working for a Boston ‘newspaper’ and the sports media in that town when it comes to hockey has the collective IQ of broccoli.

          The Bruins have not been called out but they should be. Not my fault the media is biased. if Subban had ‘golf-swinged’ a non-playoff team, people would want him suspended for unsportsmanlike conduct (Between calling him the N-word and saying he deserves a broken neck, which they have already been saying). If Montreal had spent the last few minutes of a game attacking the other team’s non-fighters and claiming a moral victory from that, they’d have been reviled. If they had spent a playoff series throwing sucker punches at the non-fighters, same thing. If they had the GALL to say another team’s player was faking his concussion and his doctors were COLLUDING to get the offender suspended… Don Cherry would have led a protest march all the way from Toronto to Montreal and burned the entire team in effigy, with Mike Milbury providing the gasoline.

          Flyers weren’t intimidating the Habs in Round 3, they didn’t have to! They were sadly, that much better than us at forward and defence. It was a skill victory for them above all else. We just couldn’t skate with them after all that expended energy.

          Chicago? Yes Byfuglien was a big difference-maker but if it hadn’t been for Duncan Keith leading the best rebound-clearing clinic you’ve ever seen in front of Niemi, it would have been over.

          – I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
          SF09 on Twitter

          • HardHabits says:

            Love is blind SF09 and you are smitten.

            I never said the Flyers intimidated. They physically kept the Habs forwards to the outside. Then in the one game the Habs won, Cammy sticks his tongue out at Hartnell and all it took was Hartnell retorting that prettier girls had done such a thing to quell any momentum the Habs had.

            I for the life of me can’t understand how you of all people will argue against the proposition that the Habs are the NHL’s perceptual schoolyard wimp. It’s obviously not the size of the team as they aren’t even the smallest kids on the block. So what is it then? It’s the league wide perception that all that is needed is to lay the body on the Habs to win.

            As a Habs fan and a Montrealer I am fed up with this team’s identity as a small and soft team. To say otherwise is wishful thinking.

            I’d love to have Malone, Lucic, Pronger, Chara, Byfuglien and even better if we had them all on the team. As it stands all we have is the Gentle Giant (which BTW is an excellent progressive band) Hal Gill. He alone is not nearly enough but thankfully the Habs at least have him.

          • Chorske says:

            HH: it is your OPINION that the Habs are perceived as wimps. It’s kind of ridiculous that you fail to realize this.

          • SeriousFan09 says:

            HH, you want a guy who tried to kill a Hab on our team? Shame. And seriously, one quip from Hartnell and it was all over? Right. The Habs lost all the energy and pride as athletes because of a sarcastic remark from the guy with the worst hair in the NHL.

            This team is not the biggest pushover in the NHL, far from it and I doubt they are percieved as such. They are known to be a team that has speed that will punish anyone who tries to just bludgeon them by using that speed to great advantage. And that perception is probably getting tossed out in locker rooms as they see Montreal hanging in there with every self-appointed tough team in the league over the last two years. Philly won because Halak’s magic ran out and our forwards were out of gas, not because they were the toughest team alive, they didn’t need to hit us hard, just outplay us with superior depth.

            – I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
            SF09 on Twitter

          • HardHabits says:

            @Chorske: Can you realistically say that I am alone in this perception? I didn’t make this up. This is what I read in other forums when people discuss the Habs. Maybe the use of the word WIMP is a bit excessive but if the Bruins are BULLIES what then are the Habs if they are the ones who the BULLIES maul?

            Unless the Habs are Jesus. If that’s the case then let’s see some miracles.

      • Chorske says:

        Careful, Lurch. You’re getting dangerously close to providing actual data here. Might end up convincing someone by accident. ;)

    • Paulin98C says:

      You want players with TALENT and GRIT or TOUGHNESS and point out a bunch the last few SC winners…

      Then you go on about how we have Pacioretty, Cole, Subban and so on but you DON’T want them to do anything because you don’t want them hurt?

      If we had the Lucics and Keslers wouldn’t matter as you wouldn’t want them to get hurt either.

      Let’s see where those Pacioretty, Cole, Yemelin and Subban take us before complaining about how green the grass is next door.

    • DCos says:

      You speak about “facts and proof”, however you have none of them either. You present your opinion and your perspective, but they aren’t “facts and proof” anymore than the statements of those who disagree with you. The teams you listed, outside of Boston, I don’t believe any are significantly bigger, tougher, meaner than our Habs. Again, not “facts and proof”, just my opinion.

      Furthermore, I believe the Habs have made stides in making the team bigger, tougher, grittier. They added size and skill top their top 6 with Cole. Between him, Max-Pac and AK, there are 3 guys with size and skill in the top 9. I agree it would be nice to add another player with physicality ( ;) HH ) to the 4th line, but what player is available, and at the expense of whom?

      Regardless, I don’t think its smart to categorically dismiss the Habs chances the way you do. I mean they were within a shot of sending Boston home in the first round. A tipped puck, bad bounce, skate deflection…anything could have sent the Bruins home early. And while it is obvious that didn’t happen, the point is that all it would have taken to debunk the theory that the Bruins and their style of team and play are vastlt superior to our poor little Habbies, would’ve been one goal, fluke or otherwise. That happens and this conversation probably doesn’t take place.

      –Whining, sniveling, complaining, negative “fans” annoy me.–

    • subdoxastic says:

      Hi MJ.

      You’ve been a busy boy lately with your calls for fighters/tough guys/ players who can take care of business. Your post asks for contrary opinions (albeit with some rather loaded language) so I’ll attempt to reply with a brief sketch of my thoughts on this issue.

      First, the onus is not on the anti-fighting crowd to provide proof that having tough guys don’t make a difference. This is not how logic and inquiry work. If you disbelieve me, please prove there is not an invisible elehphant in the room with you right now. So, it is not the requirement of people who argue that fighting doesn’t make a difference to prove that it doesn’t– the onus is on those who hold the opposite (and positive premise) that fighting does in fact make a difference.

      My post of two days ago was specific in arguing that having tough guys don’t reduce injuries or cheap shots to a team’s players, examples such as the hit on marc savard and others were offered as evidence contra-to this claim made by you and others.

      Evidence put forward on your behalf includes the Robinson vs. Schultz fight (and we can perhaps agree to disagree on its importance at the time to the then Canadiens and its relevance to the game now).

      The latest evidence you provide above is intriguing– do you think that team toughness played more of a role than Thomas’ heroics in the playoffs? As fas as I can tell, the Flyers have not won a Stanley Cup since the 70s and surely their success against us comes down to more than simply being tough– like having a team that can ice Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, and Briere on 3 different lines if need be? or the quality play of 2nd and 3d line players like Van Riemsdyk who matched up nicely against a Habs team without the same level of depth?

      But all of this isn’t really irrelevant to my post of two days ago. I asked quite clearly if violence (fighting, ‘policiing’ — in the form of dirty or even just questionable plays) was justified in hockey and if so what justified it? Wins in the regular season, a particular result in conference standings, a deep playoff run or even the Stanley Cup?

      My position is that knowing what we know about the impact of questionable or dirty plays or fighting on players’ health and its general impact on the environment in which the game takes place, means that we can not absolve ourselves of responsibility if these are things we seek out.

      Believing that the ends (and in this case something as relatively unimportant as a Stanley Cup) do not justify the means (punching people in the face, and injuries that result from both fighting and borderline plays) is not some sort of faulty logic or universal pacifist approach, and it’s certainly not naive.

      So instead of the ad hominem attacks, and the goal post moving we’ve seen from the crowd crowing for tough guys, let’s just be honest shall we?

      I am not okay with focussing on grit and sandpaper guys who can drop the gloves and ‘police’. I find it detracts from what the game is actually supposed to be about and it rewards behaviour that is only tangentially related to hockey. I don’t want to see more tough guys on the team, because it means less spots for talented scoring wingers, speedy centres, passing dynamos and yes, even the over-hyped defensive defensman.

      You are okay with less talent on the team if it means a grittier line-up capable of imposing fear/intimidation in other teams– do I have this right? And you’re justification for this is success on the scoreboard– stanley cup wins?

      Just own up and admit it then.. “I, MJ, am okay with fighting and other on-ice related violence if it results in wins and stanleycups that assuage my need as a fan to feel successful, regardless of its impact on the players and teams involved.

      But perhaps this formulation of your position is somehow incorrect? I don’t want to straw man here and am genuinely interested in your rebuttal.

      I’ll check in later.

      Regards,
      Subdoxastic

      • HardHabits says:

        You see. This is a good reply. A rarity here.

        Here’s my answer:

        I, HH, am not okay with the Habs being a victim of fighting and other on-ice related violence especially when these acts result in losses that assuage my need as a fan to feel successful at the same time witness Starley Cup Champiarships for the perpetrators, because I regard that the lack of size and grit on the Habs has a negative impact on the players and the team.

        • Chorske says:

          But you’re not following MJs standard of providing evidence that supports YOUR PERCEPTION that a) the Habs are more victimized by on-ice violence than other teams b) that the Habs’ PERCEIVED lack of size and “grit” (and I’m not even sure how you guys define “grit” anymore) has a negative effect on the team (measured how? morale? courage? or measured in terms of how other teams perceive the Habs? It’s all very muddled).

          You’re entitled to your opinion. But MJ is clamoring for data, not personal opinion– as is the poster to whom you were responding.

          • HardHabits says:

            There is no data for proof on either side. There is evidence enough to support both positions but it’s not clear and cut. It’s like a game of chess. If a players open with e4 who’s to say e5 isn’t as good a move as c5? I can show examples where players win and lose with either combination.

            Sports like games of chess offer up a myriad of possibilities.

            What MJ is saying is that people like AB and SF09 will trot out how Savard got creamed as proof that having a deterrent in the name of a heavy weight will have no effect on injuries is a crock of shiz. It’s one example. I provide Robinson versus Schultz as another.

            It’s like arguing over e5 or c5 as a response to e4. There are too many variables to make a conclusion.

            One thing is certain there is no proof that having tough guys eliminates injuries. I happen to think having a few can at least mitigate them to a certain extent.

            One thing for certain, not having a bunch of old, soft or small players and having them replaced with young, hard, big players can at least shift the balance of power in those games that are fought in the trenches and alleys.

      • MJ says:

        “First, the onus is not on the anti-fighting crowd to provide proof that having tough guys don’t make a difference.” – I disagree, when once says they have proof as the term has been used repeatedly by those with an opposing view, the onus is on them to provide it.

        “do you think that team toughness played more of a role than Thomas’ heroics in the playoffs? As fas as I can tell, the Flyers have not won a Stanley Cup since the 70s and surely their success against us comes down to more than simply being tough– like having a team that can ice Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, and Briere on 3 different lines if need be? or the quality play of 2nd and 3d line players like Van Riemsdyk who matched up nicely against a Habs team without the same level of depth?” If you read my post carefully, I don’t say that toughness alone is the key to winning games, and I specifically stated “scoring ability, playmaking ability, defensive play, ability to win face offs and goaltending” as essential components.

        “My position is that knowing what we know about the impact of questionable or dirty plays or fighting on players’ health and its general impact on the environment in which the game takes place, means that we can not absolve ourselves of responsibility if these are things we seek out.” I don’t advocate fighting as much as I don’t advocate dirty hits to the head. The reality in the NHL today is they’ll happen and I want someone on my team to be able to settle the score or prevent it as I believe could have happened has someone engaged Malone much earlier in the game when he was spoiling for it.

        “You are okay with less talent on the team if it means a grittier line-up capable of imposing fear/intimidation in other teams– do I have this right?” No you don’t have it right, I’ve called for tough players that can play. Show me one post of mine where I have called for a goon.

        “Just own up and admit it then.. “I, MJ, am okay with fighting and other on-ice related violence if it results in wins and stanleycups that assuage my need as a fan to feel successful, regardless of its impact on the players and teams involved.” You haven’t understood any of my posts correctly enough to make any assumptions. What you did understand correctly however is that we enjoy a different style of hockey (NOT FIGHTING) and we disagree on the essential components it takes to build a winner.

        The last thing I would advocate is a goon, not only because it would hurt the team I support and gratuitous violence has no place in hockey or real life, but also because just like most of you I’ve kept up with the sad events of the summer and the last thing I want to know is that I took part in pushing someone to their death. Just like the last thing I want to watch are opposing players taking a run at the heads, knees, backs, necks or whatever of players that we enjoy watching (who at the end of the day are practicing a profession and are in the prime of their lives) simply because opposing players feel they can and don’t fear anyone standing up for that player. Had Gorges been able to lay a pummeling on Malone, I would have felt justice was done, but not only none of that happened, we now know how much we can rely on the league put that fear into opposing players.

    • Natrous says:

      In order to actually use gritty resources, you would first need a GM and coach who value such assets.. give JM a team like the Bruins or Flyers, and he would still coach a defence first, wait-for-mistakes style offence despite owning the physical edge vs opponents. Given that the team has not been built to suit a style that is not being coached, you’ll have a while to wait before the team pendulum swings in that direction.

    • Chorske says:

      I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, MJ, but frankly I am not encouraged. You basically dare us to give arguments supporting our views (most of us have already done so ad nauseam), but then write a diatribe explaining why you think we’re wrong BEFORE WE EVEN PRESENT OUR ARGUMENTS.

      Like I said: not encouraging at all.

      Also, you’re lining yourself up philosophically with wackjobs like Dude, which kinda weakens the whole structure (see his recent post about landing Avery, for fecks sakes. AVERY!).

      • MJ says:

        Chorske, I’m clamoring for data because the anti physicality crew on HIO has referred to “proof” on a number of occasions but never presented anything that can be described as proof not even loosely. If it’s an opinion, fine let’s call it that and agree, disagree (or agree to disagree if you prefer).

        About Avery, did you see my reply to HB about that (he correctly referred to him as the village idiot)? I’m managing my time (I have work to do… lol) so I can’t reply to every comment but totally agree with you about Avery, that would be very poor judgement on the part of PG even more so than not signing or acquiring one or two
        physical players over the summer :)

  57. Mike D says:

    A few NHL notes in case anyone’s interested:

    Sean Avery will be placed on waivers today by the Rags according to TSN.

    With the season just 2 days away, the Caps and Nucks are currently over the salary cap. Buff, Phi, NYR, and Pitt all have under 1mil is cap space available.

    – Honestly yours

  58. RealtorRichg says:

    I hear Avery might be available…he’d probably like Montreal…would Montreal like him??? He could be the “sandpaper” guy others are clamering for.

    • shiram says:

      Do no want.

      If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

    • Xsteve50 says:

      too many good looking women in Mtl for Avery….he would always be in trouble……

    • nunacanadien says:

      In Montreal, the tough guys learn early on not to stick their heads out cause the rest of the team is nothing but a bunch of wimps and pansy types. But hey that is all that is left over after the habs wait to sign the left overs. Cause hey, we have the laziest GM and hockey managment team in the NHL!

    • The Dude says:

      Avery can start it but who’s gonna finish and besides we had the best sh!t disturber ever in LaPierre “I miss lappy” and shipped that character and play-off performer away for nada! On the other hand the habs play a bi-gendered style and Avery has strong feelings”and rightly so”about that community…..

    • ManApart says:

      No way he’s a JM kind of player. Too high maintenance and has a premadonna side a little like SK74 did. He wouldn’t fit with this team.

  59. Mattyleg says:

    Am I the only one that thinks it looks like Mio was caught talking loudly into his phone and was asked to keep it down, and had to finish the rest of his post in a whisper?

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  60. Colomb27 says:

    I hope Moen was taking boxing lessons during his absence

  61. The Dude says:

    Hey Gauthier….after everything that’s going on and another failed read “by you!”on how the game is played,is it to much to ask to get a big chippy ape to play between Moen and White”I don’t care if it’s Henry,just do it ffs!”

  62. Xsteve50 says:

    ok, I have the trade…AK and Webber for Jared Boll and David Savard with CBJ….Savard has great potential perhaps more than Webber…and Boll….well…we need someone like him….

  63. Colomb27 says:

    I sure hope Moen was taking boxing lessons during his absence

  64. Mattyleg says:

    (Posted this on the other thread before realizing that it was obsolete)

    “It’s the most hilarious tiiiime of the yeaaaaar…”

    The ‘ooooool POWER RANKINGS!!
    Where people yell about who has the most POWER!! going into the season.
    My vote for #1 on the POWER RANKINGS?
    The Three Gorges Dam
    Dam(n)! that thing’s got POWER!!
    Number 2?
    The Canadian Shield. Loads of potetential POWER, but still has to develop it.
    This year’s disappointment?
    Fukushima. Big slip in the POWER RANKINGS!! after that late-season meltdown.

    I pay little to no credence to what ANY analyst says about the Habs. I actually prefer it when we’re overlooked.
    I recently laughed my way through 9/10ths of an ad for Sportsnet because they were crowing about Canada’s Passion For Sports, and showed every hockey team (plus the Raps and Jays and GSP) except the Habs. Then, just at the end, they showed a Luongo lookalike wearing a Habs bandana.
    I love it.
    THAT’S POWER!!!

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  65. Kooch7800 says:

    Cole is on the third line to start…interesting. So AK would be in the top 6. I don’t think one outshined the other in the preseason.

    Will be interesting to see how this goes

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Is this JM trying to show AK some love?

    • Xsteve50 says:

      looks to me like AK is being showcased…now who could be interested ?

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Could be, but that line early last year was very good until Count Chocula broke it up.

      • Mike D says:

        Fearless prediction:

        AK46 will be traded for Jordan Staal

        Okay, so I’m mostly kidding. BUT, Pitt needs a finesse winger to play with Crosby and/or Malkin (Neal alone ain’t gonna cut it) and we need a big defensively responsible centre who can win faceoffs.

        Still tho – mostly kidding.

        – Honestly yours

        • LNev says:

          Pens signed Steve Sullivan this offseason. He’s a finesse winger and will contribute about as much as Ak.

          They also use Malkin on the wing with Crosby when necessary.

          Additionally: If you, reader of the internet, knows AK46 is a dog and needs to be turfed… well we better hope the GM of the Pens doesn’t google AK46 his name. I mean his scouts might be all like: “25ish goal scorer, good skater, hits a fair bit” but then he’d read the internet and see your plan and be like… “WAAAAAAAIT, professional hockey scout, this guy in the internet says he’s crap…”

    • ryan.hayward says:

      AK is on the top line because that line is a high skill and vision line, they compliment each other well. also in the pre season games where montreals “nhl” line consisted of kost and DD they were a big minus. so its not really a promotion rather then finding the right combination, remember JM wants 3 scoring lines.

      and markov looks hurt!!

    • TOEmastro says:

      I think that AK would turn off his brain if he was put on the 3rd line and be completely useless like he has in the past when “demoted”, whereas Cole will play full speed no matter what line he’s on. If AK wasn’t moody, we’d see Cole with pleks and Cam

      Olé, olé, olé oleé

  66. Hab it says:

    Let’s not forget the little “hockey play” otherwise known as an elbow to the head from that little puke Ference on Halpern in the playoffs. Apparently when the words head shots and Habs should not be used in the same sentence. PG better think about getting someone to handle a little bit of home grown justice to keep his players on the ice cuz the league doesn’t seem to care how many “hockey plays” are dished out to players on the bleu, blanc et rouge. Disgusting.

  67. Paulin98C says:

    LEAFS ROSTER:
    Frattin – Grabovski – Kulemin
    Lupul – Connolly – Kessel
    Brown – Bozak – Armstrong
    Lombardi – Dupuis – Orr

    Gunnarsson – Phaneuf
    Liles – Schenn
    Gardiner – Komisarek

    Reimer
    Gustavsson

    HABS ROSTER:
    Cammaleri – Plekanec – Kostitsyn
    Pacioretty – Gomez – Gionta
    Darche – Desharnais – Cole
    Moen – Enqvist – Weber

    Gill – Subban
    Campoli – Gorges
    Spacek – Diaz

    Price
    Budaj

    No need to debate which roster looks better on paper.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      The leafs third line would make a good 4th line though. They are not deep and once connolly gets hurt again they will be in trouble.

      Mind you we are a couple of injuries away from trouble on our D core

    • likehoy says:

      our 4th line is a joke lol.

      – Gomez is holding down the “overpaid” button

    • Paulin98C says:

      Let’s have fun with this

      RULES: Pick the best player of each team from each line and position. Ex: Cammalleri or Frattin.
      The choice is always between the two players playing on that line and position. Ex: cannot chose Kessel over Darche (different line + postiton)

      Cammalleri – Plekanec – Kostitsyn
      Lupul – Gomez – Kessel
      Darche – Bozak – Cole
      Lombardi – Enqvist – Orr

      Gill- Subban
      Liles – Gorges
      Gardiner – Komisarek

      Price
      Gustavsson

      I hate seeing 3 Leafs on the back end but… Komisarek brings more than Diaz… I would rather youth and potential over Spacek…
      Liles has the offensive tools greater than Campoli.
      Gorges over Schenn: Gorges is rock solid defensively, Schenn throws big hits. If Komisarek wasnt on my last pairing, I would choose Schenn over Gorges… but thats not the case so Gorges is my pick.

      Kessel over Gionta: For this line only. Gionta being more than Kessel but since Kessel will score more goals than Gionta, I pick Kessel.

      • ManApart says:

        Kulemin is an easy choice over AK46. I’ll take Pleks for his all around game, but I think Grabs may be the better offensive player. It’s close. Connolly could easily be chosen over Gomez.

    • ManApart says:

      Actually the difference isn’t that big. Montreal’s D doesn’t look good at all without Markov. Can’t say they are really much better than the Leafs. I like Montreal’s forwards better because of experience and leadership, but the Leafs aren’t that far behind. Grabs, Kessel and Kulemin had more goals and points than any Hab last year (Grabs tied with Gio in goals, Kulemin tied with Pleks in points). Connolly and Gomez are pretty much the same. If Lombardi is recovered from his injury he would be a very nice 3rd line center. Habs have more depth, but as I said, they aren’t a huge way better than the Leafs.

      The big difference is in goal. Price is a lot better than Reimer. Reimer did have some very good moments last season, but is still a big question mark. I think the Habs have a lot better coaching as well. If he could be solid, the Leafs definately will be in a fight for the playoffs.

  68. habsguy says:

    Well I guess the american owners along with Bettman have told Shanny to cool it !!!!!!!

    • Xsteve50 says:

      Does anyone know where to find an update list of free agents that remain unsigned. I am sure there is someone that can pop 10 goals and pop a few players as well….

      • shiram says:

        Capgeek is what you are looking for.
        http://www.capgeek.com/ufa_finder.php

        Seems Sergei Samsonov is the biggest fish in the remaining free agents.

        If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

      • Jordio-oh says:

        The free agent list is now a wasteland. There’s no one that can help us in the department most people are discussing (and no Mike Grier doesn’t count).

        This may come as a surprise to most people, but acquiring the type of player that suits our needs and one that we won’t immediately dump on when he doesn’t perform above our expectations is actually difficult to find.

        Without using a blanket statement, alot of people on here love the acquisition of Moen, but then became dejected when he didn’t get 200 hits a year and beat up everyone in sight. Expectations are too high and the assumptions of how easy it is to acquire an impact player (whether skill or grit/physicality) are unrealistic.

  69. avatar_58 says:

    Engqvist of all players made it for thurs?

    Ok I guess, he didn’t wow me at all.

  70. Maksimir says:

    I really hope Engqvist steps up and plays better.. Habs really need a solid faceoff man and defensive centre to free up Plekanec.

  71. shiram says:

    Needs some Tweaking™.

    If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

  72. HabsFansince49 says:

    Chara left hooks Max-Pac’s head into the post; League response – no suspension; Malone assails Campoli’s head. League’s response even with the liberated Mr Shanahan – no suspension! What? we Habs fans are not paranoid. We just believe in the NHL conspiracy theory.
    That said I voted (in the little online poll here) against the Canadiens having an enforcer. We don’t need goons; we need scorers.

    • Mr San Diego Hab says:

      Don’t include this Hab fan as part of the group that believes in such a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

      What is up with some (a lot that post on this and other sites) of my fellow Hab fans that continually *itch and moan about this???

      I am glad the team itself doesn’t have the same whiny attitude.

  73. Mattyleg says:

    Well now I don’t have to watch it, do I?

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  74. RGM says:

    It all depends on whether Berkshire actually is a big softy and his sparring partner says those things to his face.

    ———————–
    GO HABS GO! 2011-12 is our year!

  75. leafs do have amazing fans, probably the only fan base that can be uttered in the same breath as our own, difference is, we actually get to go to games

  76. Mark C says:

    That’s the only factual element of his comment, Leaf fans will get another non-playoff team.

  77. never said best in pro sports, burke did, but i will never ever disparage leaf fans for being into their team as much as we are

    its the one thing we can cheers them for

  78. Mattyleg says:

    Yep, I’ve said that for a long time.
    Poor beggars.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  79. Gerry H says:

    Dunno, I find that barn pretty quiet most nights. Maybe that’s because all the hoi polloi don’t get into their $500 seats until the 10 minute mark of each period.

    I mean, it’s a tough call: $500 seat, $20 glass of Baco Noir…

  80. Trisomy 21 says:

    I think you mean sushi. that’s what they’re all after when the game is on.

  81. Trisomy 21 says:

    I was looking at Seriousfan09 on twitter to see if there was any updates on our prospects in their respective leagues, and I just see Berkshire tweeting to him how someone he was disputing with earlier was this and that. And further rants about people who he doesn’t agree with. Nothing to stop the press about, I just find it rather immature.

  82. Kristopher7 says:

    I think what is immature is to use a very serious chromosomal condition as a username.

  83. Oh I apologize for talking about HIO on another site. How dare I express free speech. Don’t fall off that high horse, you might die.

    http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

  84. Trisomy 21 says:

    It’s not like I’m mocking it, I happen to have studied a lot in genetics…

  85. Trisomy 21 says:

    I didn’t say you couldn’t speak, I was just commenting on the maturity. By all means continue, it’s entertaining seeing you act like a 10 year old.
    And thanks for the warning, but I much enjoy the view from up here.


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