For the third time in 10 days, your Montreal Canadiens play their eastern Conference rivals from up the 617.
Ottawa is comfortably ensconced in seventh place.
And the host team is still last.
• Subban goes to the Markov Academy
• The great Gordie Howe visits Montreal
• François Gagnon: Canadiens draft well, develop poorly
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Hi folks,
So I took the liberty of googling Bob Hartley because of the rumors that Roy will be our next GM and Hartley our next coach. I just wanted to see if there was something interesting about him that I didn’t already know. I stumbled upon this gem, which I’m sure many of you have already seen and I don’t know how I haven’t yet seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUgDPFSeHB8
I think I get the gist of the argument, but could someone please translate it for me? I’ve never lived in Quebec so a lot of the slang and whatnot goes over my head. Thanks
What a joke the NHL is. Keith gets a 2 minute minor for a blatant intent to injure hit on Sedin. He gets to finish the game and help Chicago to win by a goal. The thinking of the ref’s is obviously that Shanny will deal with it later. Keith will be suspended for 5-6 games which will weaken Chicago and make it easier for Vancouvers rivals to beat Chicago and maybe pass Van in the standings.
A couple weeks ago, Myers takes Gomez out of the game (or season), gets a minor penalty, scores the winning goal, sits out 3 games and then comes back in to help beat the Habs again, (while Gomez still sits).
For years, I have been saying that a suspended players MUST miss the next game against the team he fouled. Why do the other teams in the league get the advantage of playing that team when they are missing a Keith or Myers or Doan?
And you can’t tell me the ref’s aren’t trying to take the easy way out by not giving out majors and game misconducts for this blatant illegal hits.
I agree habs-hampton. I remember the year before Bettmen was hired Gil Stien ran the league and for one season there were no suspensions only fines, for ie. a 5 game suspension resulted in the guilty player losing 5 games worth of salary but he could still play. Stien’s rational was that if a star player happened to do something worthy of a suspension it wouldn’t be fair to fans who had already bought tickets to see that player play.
While this method was widely ridiculed by the media I would propose a hybrid of this idea. The guilty party would not be able to participate in future games (number determined by severity of the incident) againt the team fouled , but would serve the rest of the suspension by forfitting their salary for the duration but still be able to play.
It’s become clear to me that Geoff Molson is Adam Sandler in the movie Billy Madison or even better yet Seth Rogen in Green Hornet. Playboy with s*it for brains. This company is in serious trouble. Speaking from experience here is no way I would tolerate this type of mis-management. Gauthier has made this club look like fools. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him here next season.
As much as losing sucks, this season is a blessing in disguise. It was about time the habs got good reality check.
I also don’t even think the habs are that far off from being a contender. We have a franchise defenseman in PK, a franchise goaltender in Carey, some good depth players, some great power wingers, A great shut down D in Josh Gorges, and maybe the next coming of anton volchenkov in alexei yemelin. All we really need is some more skill up front and an upgrade at center. Hopefully we do well in the draft lottery and are able to add a true gamebreaker at the forward position.
All we need now is for molson to put the right people in place as far as management and this ship could be turned around in no time.
I hear what you are saying, perhaps the worst thing that could have happened was JM coaching all season and the team finishes 9th or 10th and we face the same crossroads as many other seasons. Minor tweaking follows and the next season goes the same as previous years.
Hopefully we finally land an elite forward/center talent. Also our 2nd round pick has a better chance at becoming a solid NHL’er.
We shall see…..
Too late, I have already talked to all the players and they have bought into my reasoning for an extended winning streak to close out the season. Sorry, had I seen this article sooner, I wouldn’t have taken the drastic steps already done.
The Goat isn’t going anywhere, I’m convinced Molson will give him one more season to turn this ship around…..which scares me.
I’d like to see someone new and a person who knows players stats off the top of his bald head……guess who is my choice.
Just have to lure him away from NBC and the bench gap.
”You miss 100% of the shots you never take.” – Wayne Gretzky
Re PG being so quiet and tight lipped.
If the team is winning and the GM is making good moves, I couldn’t care less how often he speaks to the press. To me this is a problem that the press has. This is why its blown out of proportion. The press is not happy cause they can’t get any info out of the Habs organization. They can’t get good stories and sell newspapers in a world where the very newspapers are dying.
I’m not saying I agree with it. But in the end let me ask you. If the Habs send out a detailed analysis of Gomez’ day to day treatments regarding his injury or if they published a log of the minute by minute account of the Cammalleri trade and exactly what he was told does our team make the playoffs? If PG is more likeable and jokes around with the press are we any higher in the standings?
Now let me ask you this. If PG publishes the exact treatment and issues with Markov’s knee and the extent of Moen’s injury do you think giving away their current weakness is such accurate detail is a good thing? Do you think that maybe if Moen is working to get Kessel off his game, that Phaneuf goes out and smashes the very shoulder that caused him to be out last week…?
In this insane city where the current RUMOR is that Patrick Roy is going to be named the coach on April 8th, no matter how RC does in his last games. Do you think stuff like this getting out is only hurtful?
So taking stuff like this into consideration, do you think it prudent for the GM of the habs to make sure that very little inaccurate and hurtful information gets out there.
Do you think that maybe if the Montreal Gazette, LaPress, and the Journal de Montreal didn’t publish daily articles about how truly lazy and awful AK was on our team. If maybe there wasn’t mass hysteria and 15 NHL.com articles from associated press telling of SK missing the bus and potentially never playing in Montreal again. And maybe if every hockey blog on the net didn’t read the story that some guy got paid for by telling the press that Grabovsky just checked out of his hotel early and took a taxi to the airport where he overheard Grabs saying he was going to meet his agent…..
That maybe we could end up getting more for some of these guys?
Ask yourself if there is some sort of correlation between what we got in return for Gill, and what we got for AK to the exact same team around the same time. Who exactly is the player with the bigger upside there for Nashville?
Its all about reputation and what information or mis-information is out there. That’s how deals are affected.
Think about this: I just saw people placing post it notes on gas station pumps saying “the nation average for a gallon of gas the day Obama took office (Jan 20th, 2009) was $1.78. How’s that ‘Hope and Change’ working out for you? THANKS OBAMA”
What the note didn’t say was that a few weeks before the national average was $4.25. Higher than it currently is. How many people are gonna run out and vote for the other guy based on this misleading info, and how is that going to affect everyone else.
Keeping a tight lip on this team in a media crazy market is a good idea. I would rather that then hear the blowhard idiot Burke say a bunch of stupidity and make huge moves, yet still end up in the same position they have for 8 years.
In the end what is the difference that the way either one approaches the media affects our standings… In my opinion the more info out there the more harm it can do. And if you really think guys like Jack Todd are not going to endlessly bash slumping players at any chance they get, then you haven’t been paying attention for the last 20 years.
I wonder what kind of articles and info was out there to help Dallas make a decision about what to risk with Ribeiro….
Great post! I would add that the media has just become lazy and whiney because they’re not being spoon fed information, how about they go out, get some sources and do their job as journalists? They make AK look like a workhorse!
Are you serious about those post-it notes? How dumb are these people? Gas hasn’t been 1.75$/gallon since before Katrina…
I looked right away. Its true gas was 1.75 here is the USA in january, 2009. December??? 4.25. Its elastic. But people mis-use info all the time. Uneducated decisions based on hearsay.
Great post! I generally ignore really long posts as most posters tend to drone on, but I am glad I read it.
Totally agree with you
Roy as GM? That is ridiculous! Sure he coaches in the QMJHL but has he ever had a front office job?
Coach I can see and I would now actually like to see but GM, how is that even possible?
I don’t think he is ready for such a move either Hobie, however, he does own and operate as GM and coach of his Junior team.
Owner Gm and Coach of the Remparts for over 7 years now.
My apologies guys, wasn’t aware his duties extended beyond coaching. Well that does increase his capabilities a tad
.
Exactly. Doesn’t mean he will be good at the NHL level.
The only thing I like about Roy is that he HATES to lose. He will sit there stewing in his chair when the team isn’t winning. He would probably never accept being on the short end of the stick in a trade. And he will hopefully fire up a team.
Biggest concern is his ego and his stubborness. How many fights has he been involved in as Coach with his team? I’ve never heard of a NHL coach fighting with the other team going to the bus.
It will truly be a circus. But he might be great…
I would prefer him bringing that attitude behind the bench than in the GMs office.
I think Carey Price would be in awe and Roy could help his work ethic and attitude, not that it needs major adjusting but Roy would be a huge role model I’d imagine.
Imagine Roy walking up to Price in the dressing room and giving him a little kick to the pads and a pep talk heading into overtime!
I would normally tend to agree, as I would like to see some real experience come in here and manage this team. However, unless were landing guys like Holland or Poile (highly unlikely), there arent many slam-dunk GM’s available out there. Just look at Brian Burke. He’s touted as one of the best in the league, but he can’t get the leafs into the playoffs.
As much as I scoffed at the idea of Patrick Roy as GM when i first heard it, maybe thats what this organization needs. Fire, Passion, and someone with a winning attitude. Roy certainly has those three qualities in spades.
I would also much rather have Roy than Pierre Mcguire.
So will the NHL suddenly hand out a monster suspension to Keith in order to appear just as tough on justice as the NFL? Somehow, I can see Bettman sitting in his office saying, Brendan we are taking heat that the NFL is better at handling this stuff, make a lesson out of this guy from Chicago….
If the NHL were to totally commit to removing fighting and headshots from the game they’d have to make huge changes to the way games are officiated.
The war room the have in Toronto…They’d need a six-man war room overlooking every minute of every game. Way more stoppages and the booth calling down and ejecting players on a nightly basis.
HIB asks a pretty straight forward question on an intentional head hit resulting in concussion. Fighting is a separate thing entirely. As are accidental head injuries however they are caused.
The league has the ability today, with 3 and 4 officials on the ice, to make the right calls without resorting to video replays too often, apart from the occasional questionable goal.
If the on ice officials were in any way consistent and competent we wouldn’t be having these ridiculous Shannynanigans.
Fighting? A whole other discussion.
***Subbang Baby!!!***
Shannynanigans, wow, I can’t spell that nor do I have a clue how to pronounce it, but I am duly impressed! Nice one, Bazinga!
There is no way even 10 officials at ice level can judge if a player’s elbow/shoulder makes contact with the chin/head of another player half the time.
It happens so fast and can look totally different from a different angle or replay.
My question still is the same, will Buttman be influenced by the recent NFL justice (which is stealing all headlines across North America) and thus try to appear tough on crime like the NFL?
I am not saying he should be influenced, but I don’t trust the little wanker and I worry outside influences like the current state of affairs in the NFL has an affect on how he makes decisions.
So there have been no calls on the ice this season?
Edit…sorry, you said 10 officials and half the time…I think we need some actual stats before debating this…how many on ice penalties have been assessed for head hits and how many of those have resulted in concussion and how many of those resulted in suspension? Head hits are illegal as per rule 48, even though the last sentence of the rule is mealy mouthed and absolves just about any guilty party.
***Subbang Baby!!!***
Sorry I didn’t realize we were heading into the Supreme Court of Canada and I required exact stats and a defense strategy. I will be more prepared next time.
Haha…well we’re both shooting from the hip on this one. Seriously I’d like to see just how the league officials have performed on the ice on this issue. I have little confidence in the officials’ abilities to make consistent minor penalty calls and I’d like to know if they’re just as incompetent on major issues like this.
Of course they’re just one element and if they’re not able to enforce the rules the result can be just what we saw with Keith, frontier justice. Player respect is another thing and Keith showed that retribution was more important. So who’s at fault, the league for establishing the rule, the officials for not enforcing it, the players for not considering the consequences?
Should there be no rules on head hits, therefore no need to assess penalties for them? Just leave it up to the players?
***Subbang Baby!!!***
Well the NHL did change it from a telephone hearing to an in-person hearing. I would assume they didnt do that for nothing. I’d like to see keith suspended for the rest of the regular season (7 games). He did take out a star player, who was unsuspecting and didnt have the puck, who plays for a heated rival, with a filthy elbow, conveniently after he took a hit from that same player earlier in the game. If that’s not proof of intent, I don’t know what is.
I would say 8 games, but I dont think Keith is a repeat offender like Wizniewski.
Here’s a question for the HIO-ers:
The preamble: The Lottery pick for the NHL Draft is scheduled for April 8/9ish. TSN, as is their mandate, will make a big spectacle out of it and invite the GMs of the aspiring (if not underachieving) teams to their show to discuss the results of the pick.
The questions:
a) Do you see Mr. Gauthier attending the show? Attend and not speak?
b) If given the choice, would you prefer the Habs GM be more like Mr. Burke (who may also be on the show) or the status quo?
GM doesn’t need to be there. I like the GM to be quiet about things until announcements are made. Burke is a loud-mouthed media whore.
The Ghost?
He’d send Youppi to avoid questions.
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The cerebral insight of PJ Stock:
“Le problem est Markov n’a pas jouer un seul game cette annee”
“Louis Leblanc est un kid locale”
I’ll take Gauthier’s reticence over Burke’s ego every time.
If indeed Patrick Roy becomes the next GM as reported, I think Roy will be much closer to Burke than PG in his character. I realize this is nothing profound being said by me, but suddenly we will have our Circus going on at the Bell Center.
I have to laugh at that rumour. I mean, Roy as GM? C’mon! What they done been smoking?
Seems bizzarre to me that he would be in the running for GM. But I no longer have any idea what to expect from this team.
C) none of the above.
Cal is correct, Burke is just a loud-mouth media whore. Id like a GM who is a little bit more vocal and who has personality, but burke is too much of a blowhard IMO.
Psst….Tom; before I go…….it is NOT reasonable to assume elbows to the head are suddenly allowed becuse the last perpetrator was not caught. Kinda weak arguement don’t you think??
Not allowed but understood in context. This is hockey, right?
Is that Retro and Tony that just walked in the room??
See ya
Hey!! I only gots two six-shooters! How’m I s’posed ta hold the fort with you turnin’ yella on me?!
I’ve been saaaaved!!
—Hope Springs Eternal—
Not to fear Matty. Your bullets are explosive.
Oh yeah!
Heh heh… gulp…
(looks tremblingly at six-shooters, holds them a little more gingerly)
I’ve been saaaaved!!
—Hope Springs Eternal—
I am beginning to believe that Frank Gagnon has an agenda and it isn’t to display an encyclopedia of hockey knowledge. The medium is the message I guess.
Just come to that conclusion?
He’s not alone!
=================================================
The cerebral insight of PJ Stock:
“Le problem est Markov n’a pas jouer un seul game cette annee”
“Louis Leblanc est un kid locale”
@TomNickle. No that is not a “reasoanable assumption” by Keith. It’s a response in anger where “reasonable” thought is missing. If he says to Shanahan, “look what Brown did to me and he didn’t get punished”, Shanahan would probably say “Grow Up!”. Retaliation has always been the punishable offence because it is more blatent and dangerous. It’s how the physical part of the game is maintained without it going out of control.
If you were a player in the NHL who had been victimized previously and saw the perpetrator go unpunished. In my opinion, based on the league’s history, it IS a reasonable assumption by Keith.
That is the whole problem with this league is the inconsistency in which they are dealing with headshots. In my humble opinion.
That argument rewards the first player giving the cheap shot every time. Gooins hockey. If it’s a bleeping penalty, the refs HAVE to call it, no matter WHO is committing the foul.
Craig Simpson reported yesterday on Team1200 in Ottawa that Patrick Roy was the new GM and Bob Hartley was coming back from Europe to be Canadiens head coach.
Extensive executive search by Molson. One person LOL. This smacks of the Rejean Houle-Mario Tremblay era but at least Hartley has experience. And a cup. But I’m scared. Hold me please. Out of the frying pan into the fire?
I think you mean Sean Simpson
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/22/roy-hartley-to-habs
http://tvasports.ca/tvasports/hockey/archives/2012/03/20120322-194349.html
Notice how both those papers are owned by Pierre Karl Peladeau, who is working hard to get a team in Quebec, perhaps he’s trying to mess things up for the Habs, since they will soon be his rivals. Or perhaps the guy who wrote that is a hack…
Keith deserves a suspension but Sedin is not an innocent in this affair. We all saw his unpenalized shoulder to Keith’s head, as well. Tough call for Shanahan but, in my opinion, the Canucks cannot have it both ways. Keith gets three games and Sedin gets time served.
I think you should apply for Shanahan’s job. Do you happen to be well acquainted with Mike Illitch or Jeremy Jacobs?
All these people that you mention
Yes, I know them, they’re quite lame
I had to rearrange their faces
And give them all another name
Right now I can’t read too good
Don’t send me no more letters, no
Not unless you mail them
From Desolation Row
Gionta will be back, and form the back bone of a second line with Pleks.
Markov will be the real deal next season forming two great defence pairings.
Moen, White, and Eller will be a nice 3rd line for us.
Patrick will be on fire, and the team will be energized to go to war. The Roy affect will hopefully keep us from adopting a new whipping boy after Gomez leaves, although I am sure the people who feed off of negativity will find someone to attack mercilessly.
It’s going to be a fun ride next season, sorry if my optimism offends you.
I am still hoping Roy keeps coaching in the minors.
If he gets the Habs gig he still will be.
Head shots are part of hockey.
Get used to it.
Edit: The players apparently have. Otherwise their union reps and membership would be screaming bloody murder to do something about their workplace becoming so stupidly hazardous.
I used to agree until my kids started playing (and my oldest started playing contact last year)…and reading Bob Mckenzie’s book about his kid …I will never stop fearing that could be one of my boys. I love hockey as much as anything that does not breathe in this world but I have at times considered taking the pads fom the kids and giving them golf clubs…I have not done it and likely won’t but the thought crosses my mind more often than I would like.
Checking from behind at the level your kids are at becomes far more frightening.
I remember a check on one of my players early in my volunteer years where I literally was on the cusp of throwing up. Four feet off of the boards, the checking player had backchecked through two zones and deviated from his position making my player unaware. Head first, out cold.
I saw an NHL seasons worth of questionable hits last year alone…. because they are just learning to hit and there is such a huge difference in the size of the kids at that age. The only thing sometimes that saves them is the fact they are yunga nd they are somewhat flexible and more resilient than adults in many cases. You are right the hitting from behind was brutal but I will apllaud minor hockey on that front…they call everything from behind and it is an immediate ejection. The head shots are sometimes frustrating for the taller kids who keep shoulders tight and have no real means of avoiding it and still hitting…oh well I guess it is safe to err on the side of caution and this generation of kids should eventually have a diff’t perspective and instinctive tendency later on to err on the side of caution and that is the objective so I am all for it.
Nothing brings home the ugly side of hockey as much as seeing your kid get pasted from behind by some 13 year old with a nasty temper. who thinks it’s cool to board someone. Although many of the same shrieking parents are out there crazed calling for blood in the LNH.
I don’t think it’s only a nasty temper. They’re sometimes real sociopaths. Later in life you see them on the highways and roads doing the same thing with their vehicles and in the workplace with their bullying and lunatic behaviour. Nut cases.
If Keith doesn’t go after Sedin, the Sedin hit on Keith isn’t even discussed. Keith reacted in the wrong way…….there are other methods of retibution if he felt he needed to “return the favor”.
Keith will be punished for an intentional headshot to injure. That is the violence the game is trying to rid of……not the hit from Sedin which was a “hockey play”.
I agree…but I do understand Keith without access to the replay just knows he didn’t see a hit coming and hit himdirectly in the head…I am sure after reviewing the play he would feel differently but I can see wehre he lost his marbles…but no excuse for what he did…..
If you’re searching for reasons as to why Keith would take matters into his own hands, look no further than Mike Brown’s elbow to his head previously. That blatant elbow went unpunished.
Okay, so I’m Duncan Keith. Mike Brown, not long ago elbowed me in the head and wasn’t punished. Tonight, Daniel Sedin did something similar. I think it’s reasonable to assume Sedin wouldn’t be suspended or disciplined if you’re Duncan Keith.
That is probably a good explanation as to his lineof thinking and he may very well think ti was an elbow and not realize it was a tucked shoulder…he just knows his head was trageted and for the reason you just mentioned he is a little touchy when it comes to his head being hit by elbows…again…he may very well think that happened as he did not see the hit (you and I both agree he should have but that is another story). I think the extent of his “avenging” the hit was still way over teh top…he could have had a clean hit and followed through high with his havnds and popped Sedin…maybe been called for a minor and maybe called for nothing. it is a really unfortunate series of circumstances with Keith having been hit and hurt by a dirty play is a previous game by Brown, an already emotional rivalry, Keith not seeing the first hti and not knowing anything other than his head was hit first, Sedin being Sedin and not being a guy that keith can drop his glvoes with, no penalty having been called on sedin,etc….unfortunately all of those do not amount to a flying elbow but it does make a little sense (as little sense as can be made of such a vicous hit)…unfortunately for Keith it likely does add up to failry conclusive evidence of intent from an outsiders persepctive…we’ll see how Shanny rules it but I expect it is 3-5
It’s been days since Roy-for-coach has raised its head. Here’s a campaigning piece from La Presse:
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/chroniqueurs/philippe-cantin/201203/23/01-4508505-patrick-roy-une-etincelle-pour-le-canadien.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B9_sports_257_accueil_POS1
(WHoa! Chubbier URL than I realised).
Cheers
Philipe Cantin is the worst of the worst. He really is a bigot (whereas Gagnon is just a ditz).
The one reason it’ll be Roy: ticket sales.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
They already sell every ticket.
I am picking ‘energy’ and ‘excitement’ as my reasons.
They did this year. If the current situation lasts much longer they will start to lose ticket and TV sales.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
Oh yeah after 19 years without a cup people will suddenly start going to Expos games.
Nice article by Francois Gagnon. Welcome to last summer FG. Better late than never I guess.
“Cette liste démontre que si les recruteurs du Canadien méritent de bonnes notes, les directeurs généraux Pierre Gauthier et Bob Gainey avant lui ont échoué sur toute la ligne en ce qui a trait à la gestion et au développement de ces jeunes.”
This is exactly what I said two days ago.
I wonder what is Frankie’s H I/O username. Bugz maybe?
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
Last summer I made a list of every significant trade made during the Gainey era and the conclusion was the Habs drafted well but generally squandered those picks. The issue being player retention or flipping them for real value. Even SF09 started to run with the concept. It’s nothing new and has been exposed a long time ago on these very pages.
I have written countless times that the Habs should let go of Gainey, Gauthier and to a lesser extent Martin and keep Trevor Timmins. I have also stated on numerous occasions that if it wasn’t for Timmins the Habs would have been a lottery team a lot sooner then they are now.
I have also bemoaned, in fact it is the basis of my Tanking Theory™, that the Habs do not really build a contender but are content with just making the play-offs. That is the Habs major failing and will continue to be until they change their corporate culture. The team is dishonest with its fans. Even Gauthier suggesting that the team is not in a rebuild phase after this disastrous season speaks volumes to the level of disinformation and blatant deception that passes for policy that we get from the current administrative group.
The Habs should change their motto from To failing hands we pass the torch, be yours to hold it high to Once you make the play-offs, anything can happen.
” I have also bemoaned, in fact it is the basis of my Tanking Theory™, that the Habs do not really build a contender but are content with just making the play-offs. That is the Habs major failing and will continue to be until they change their corporate culture. The team is dishonest with its fans. Even Gauthier suggesting that the team is not in a rebuild phase after this disastrous season speaks volumes to the level of disinformation and blatant deception that passes for policy that we get from the current administrative group.
The Habs should change their motto from To failing hands we pass the torch, be yours to hold it high to Once you make the play-offs, anything can happen.”
I call this “In Defense of HH or Ode to Anti Joy”. I hear and agree with you on these points. This team has become mediocre and the standard has fallen. Your solution is to tank which I can’t accept nor see working. Our difference here is that I am in the school that Ken Dryden was right…Montreal has to chose between being good or being French. To me the choice has been self evident and we will continue to be mediocre. I hope fervently to be proven wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!
By the way, you are also correct in you have to be top 8 to win a Cup.
Nice read Boone. A nice change to read an article from you that didn’t slam or take a cheapshot at someone. You write better as a Journalist than as a Fan…….maybe a few meaningless games can be a good cleansing of emotions!
The inconsistencies in the league office will never change. Sedin blindside shoulder checks Duncan Keith to the head. No call. Keith elbows Sedin in the head minutes later.
This is exactly what the league wants. They want the players policing themselves. So why have a hearing for Keith and not for Sedin today?
I believe it has a lot to do with Mike Gillis, Alain Vigneault and several Canuck players sounding more like they belong in a Pampers commercial than they do in an NHL locker room.
Don’t get me wrong, head checks need to be eliminated from the NHL, and fighting does too. But they can’t be eliminated from the game while the people making decisions have an interest in a select few being successful.
Tom, you can’t refuse to accept the qualitative difference between both plays. One was intentional, the other wasn’t. One was an acceptable clean hit with a shoulder, the other a proscribed, flagrant elbow. One was the case of a player doing what he is accused of not doing enough of, namely finishing his check, while the other was a player looking to exact revenge completely outside the normal boundaries of play by hitting another when he wasn’t in control of the puck and really nowhere near the puck. One resulted in a severe injury, while the other did not.
To lump both into the same category is being intentionally and provocatively obtuse, or stretching logic to the point of failure.
I agree about how inane it is that the League tacitly endorses the concept of players policing the game themselves. With technology nowadays, and cameras catching everything, there is certainly no need for this, any foul or dirty play can be adjudicated effectively, even if it needs to be after the game. The use of an in-game video referee is a concept that needs to be integrated into the game.
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How about it NHL? No fighting, just hockey?
http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/
I find it very hypocritical of you to accuse me of seeing these how I like rather than as clear facts yet you speak to Sedin’s intent or lack of.
You have no idea what he was thinking when he saw Duncan Keith with the puck. And because Sedin doesn’t fight we are to assume that he carries no ill will toward a team and its players that his team and teammates have a well documented history of animosity with?
The way to get head checks out of the game is to eliminate discretion in discipline based on intent, much like high sticking or interference.
Sorry, but you can’t seriously suggest that an accidental hit to the head deserves the same punishment as a deliberate premeditated attempt to injure.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
What do you have to validate that Sedin’s check to Keith was accidental?
Keith couldn’t see Sedin coming, and Sedin knows that when making the play. Sedin’s forearm comes up above Keith’s shoulders, within Sedin’s control.
People speaking to intent are far more guilty of partial opinion than those who suggest that there’s inconsistency in the discipline process pertaining to this game specifically.
What is free will? My avatar wrote a thing or two about that.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
HFS72: Your avatar wrote about the Will to Power. Much different than the Judeo-Christian concept of Free Will.
Sedin’s hit was a head shot. Watch the play again.
But he didn’t mean to. Because…..because……because……HE’S DANIEL SEDIN!
It’s political correctness. Europeans are kinder, gentler and have wasted more on wind and solar power than even Ontario.
1993 was a long time ago.
I watched it over and over yesterday trying to understand that point of view becuase it is quite a popular opinion on message boards al over the net….I saw what is currently a “head shot” in minor hockey for sure….and the poitn of impact is undeniable…he hits Keith’s head…but a play like that happens repeatedly during the course of any NHL game and sometimes is a minor and sometimes goes uncalled. I would have had no problem with Sedin getting a penalty but by no stretch of that imagination is it in any way comparable to Keith’s act….
A head shot is a head shot is a head shot.
I watched that play about 15 times yesterday….I am a fan of both Keith and Sedin. The play Sedin made was a penalty IMO…but is one that often goes uncalled but most likely a minor penalty but someday should be a 5 but it happens all the time. His shoulder is tight to his body, it is “semi blindside” IMo…Keith did not see him but we are not talking about from behind or from an angle that Keith should not have seen him from…there was about a 3 foot area in the whole rink that Keith could not see…he shouold ahve seen that. I know if I were Sedin I would have assumed Keith knew the hit was coming…and would have protected himself…
The point of impact was undoubtedly the head…I jst question whether or not Sedin intended that to be the point of impact…Keith’s head was not sticking out, he was not lunging, he ws upright and the hit was not very late…I think it safe to assume Keith was going to absorb some of that and use his own shoulder. I would however, prefer that Sedin got a 2 minute penalty or soemwhere down the road when things change (and they will) he should perhaps have got 4 min’s or 5 like in minor hockey simply because of the principal point of impact.
Keith’s hit was nothing short of barbaric…it wasn’t a hit at all…it was an elbow…nothing more nothing less….there was no hit, there was no reason for it, it wasn’t in any way able to be construed as a hockey play and it was a brain dead move. I understand him being somewhat upset over his head being hit…but I am sure if he saw the replay after the game he would have seen it differently. I am ahuge Keith fan..I think he is one of the best dmen in the game …but he let his emotions get the best of him and messed up huge…his elbow has no place in the game…
I think it should have been a minor penalty to Sedin….3-5 games to Keith (possibly double if he weren’t Keith)
It’s my opinion that Keith should have made himself more aware of his surrounding when making the outlet pass that he made. Having said that, Sedin is a player who is always on the lookout for hits like that when he has the puck himself. He is a nice guy, plays the game the right way for a skilled player and doesn’t have a history of dirty play.
With all of that said, I’m sure we’ve both had circumstances in our sporting endeavours where a “nice guy” has lost his temper in retaliation to something they felt was uncalled for. Keith, like Sedin is a highly skilled player who doesn’t have a history of dirty play.
I’m not going to speculate to either man’s intent. Because I don’t know what they were thinking. And as I’ve said today, intent or implied intent should not be a factor when the league makes decisions on first time offenders. If intent is going to be a factor in the decision today, Sedin should receive the same punishment or at the most one game less than Keith.
Tom, to say that you don’t know a man’s intent is true to a point, but also false. The criminal justice system works on the basis that certain facts point beyond reasonable doubt to someone’s intent, even if that person never confesses or even speaks.
In Duncan Keith’s case, any ‘reasonable man’ would conclude that Duncan Keith was looking for retribution and chose the wrong time and wrong method to do so. He thought he’d have a good chance to get a good hit on Daniel Sedin, but the puck took a funny bounce, which eliminated his opportunity for a clean hit. He didn’t have the presence or strength of mind to change course and wait for later, he went for a big hit anyway, and took a flying elbow at him WWE style. He messed up huge, and will have to suffer the consequences.
Daniel’s hit was different. Duncan Keith had just passed the puck, he hit him at most a second later, well within the technically illegal but practically time-honoured tradition of finishing your check. He did so with elbow in, with a clean shoulder, that hit his target on the body and on the head. Accidental, and no intent to injure.
If we were trying to convince a jury of our peers of our respective positions, you’d have a very hard time of it and I’d have a cake walk.
We both agree that the players policing themselves is a recipe for disaster and a blight on the sport. We both agree that hits to the head should be eliminated from the game, and treated severely when they occur. I do think that in maintaining these positions, and in an effort to be consistent, you’re misinterpreting these two hits.
Keith is guilty of an assault. Daniel’s clean hit was wayward. Big difference.
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How about it NHL? No fighting, just hockey?
http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/
Very good article by François Gagnon. Does Geoff Molson ever read this stuff? We may agree that Gainey and Gauthier made some good trades in their tenures; they are supposed to, it’s why they get the big bucks. However, as a Nova Scotia university president used to say, “the sign of good leadership is when the person leaves the institution in a better state than when he/she found it”. Apply that principle to the Habs or if you only believe that the standings tell the truth, look where the once glorious Montreal Canadiens sit in the Eastern Conference. How much evidence does the owner need to make the right decision?
You gonna say Gainey left this team in a worse state than what it was when he came on board?
No but the Gainey Gauthier combination did and Gainey has had a great influence it appears on PG’s decisions.
You’re jumping to conclusions. Gainey is an advisor to Gauthier and Geoff Molson.
He spends more time away from the team than he does with it. Do you do everything your company appointed mentor says to do? Conduct business in an identical fashion?
Gainey / Gauthier is a two-headed beast.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
“Away from the team” – no such thing these days. You can be always in close contact wherever you are on the globe.
Scotty Gomez is number 6 on TSN’s top ten end to end goals today.
So Brent Sutter last night was pissed at his team, then when the game goes to shootout he leaves his best scorers on the bench. They go on to lose the shootout, after which Sutter apparantly explodes.
So did Sutter let his anger get the better of him and cost his team a point? It is one thing to be angry at your team, but once the game comes down to the Gimmick point, don’t you owe it to your team, the organization and more importantly the fans to get your best shooters out there? Seems to me he got selfish with his anger and may have cost his team a significant point.
http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hockey/comments/something_is_missing_with_calgary/
I have reviewed tonights game schedule, there is a way for us to cheer on the Habs tonight! We need an Oilers victory, a Leafs victory, a Canes victory (nobody is catching Columbus) throw in a Jets win for good measure and Voila! Tankers and Optimists can be united!!!
Great thanks. Watching Habs games where have of me is HH like and the other half is my Hab blood is driving me nuts or nuttier then normal. Please end this season and get on with the draft, the hiring of front office personnel, coach and some new players.
Yeah but I still want Ottawa to overtake Boston.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
True, we are in agreement.
A Leaf loss and I’m in HiB.
My wish for this dreary season is for the Leafs to crash so bad as to finish lower then us and then we move ahead of them due to the draft lottery
Interesting Article about the “loser” point. Considering how the shootout is most likely here to stay. How would you guys resolve the loser point issue.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/adrian_dater/03/16/three.point.games/index.html?sct=nhl_wr_a3
my recommendation would be
2 points if you win the Game is Regulation or OT.
1 point to win in a shootout
0 points for a loss.
Unfortunately, your recommendation would still lead to disparity in the value of games — a shootout win would be worth only one point.
I would suggest instead
Regulation win — 3 points
OT or SO win — 2 points, one for tie after regulation + one for the win
OT or SO loss — 1 point, based on the fact that the team that ultimately loses was good enough to hold the winning team to a tie through the length of a regulation hockey game.
In that way, each game would be worth three points.
NHL is now making Duncan Keith have a personal meeting with Shanahan. This opens door for 5+ game suspension which otherwise wouldn’t have happened with a phone interview.
Didn’t Lucic meet him when he hit Miller?
Just looked it up and it was a phone call actually
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Avast, me proud beauty! Wanna know why my Roger is so Jolly?
Yes Captain. The old Bruin exemption at play.
Lucic met personally with Shanahan because Shanny felt that “keep up the good work bud” just doesn’t sound as good over the phone.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
Don’t forget the back slapping and laughter.
If Keith is a first timer he shouldn’t get more then 3 games imo. If he’s a repeater, anything goes.
I understand that sentiment James, but I don’t really agree. To me when a player commits a dirty foul, it is what it is. I suppose my point is that initial suspensions on such vile plays should be heavy, if indeed a player commits more of these egregious acts, then start throwing the book at them. They just can’t use the Canadian Justice System Book, since it appears to be a small and light paperback fictional pocketbook these days.
I’m still saying he’ll get 2 games as a first offender.
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Avast, me proud beauty! Wanna know why my Roger is so Jolly?
Why should that standard apply to Keith and not Sedin?
I don’t say anywhere that Sedin shouldn’t be reviewed also. BUt the league isn’t doing anything about it unfortunately.
That’s true but you, like others are ignoring(or at least gave me that impression) what Sedin did.
Re Posting due to New Thread
I find the new poll question difficult to answer anything but No. This is not to say I don’t think they could make playoffs next year, but first we need to see The Winds of Change blow through the Bell Center and its offices, once I see what the winds bring in, then I can make a better guesstimate on next years results. Until then I have to look at the current roster, coaching staff and management which leads me to answer No.
its a secret vote
I have to agree. Everything depends on the decisions Geoff Molson makes over the summer. If he brings in a good management team and coaching staff, the turnaround could be quick. If the coaching position continues to be a revolving door and the type of game the Canadiens try to play changes from season to season, the chaos could continue. Something Mike Boone pointed out after the Buffalo game is how stable that organization is. The players change, but the coach and the style of hockey played do not. This team needs that kind of stability. They need to know what type of system the coach is going to use, and draft and develop accordingly. Otherwise more assets will be wasted. The fact that the Habs rate at the top in terms of drafting over the last decade, yet are finishing right at the bottom this season is proof of gross incompetence in team building and management of assets. Without some stability, without some coherence in team planning, this incompetence can only continue.
Sad but True eh Jane?
I agree totally. See my comments above (8:21 am)
Buffalo is very stable. Kind of like Nashville. They’ve both won nothing.
Nowhere to go but up. Habs aren’t the Oilers.