Canadiens still chilling


Your Montreal Canadiens enjoy the second of two days away from the ice.
They will return to the ice in Brossard Tuesday morning.
Their next opponents, the Ottawa Senators, keep rolling along, beating the Leafs Sunday night to make it six straight Ws.

• Red Fisher: Have the real Canadiens showed up?

Saturday quotes from the room

Jack Todd on the Pearn sacking

• Marc Antoine Godin: Five ways the Canadiens have improved

DD impressed by Cole

Hottawa? Senators win again

Stu Hackel on slumping goalies

Kerry Fraser on letting ’em go

Face-Off coming on DVD, Blu Ray


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  2. The HonestFan says:

    I know I’ll never see it again but would love to see some knuckle draggers take some respect back for the habs !

  3. Jdub1985 says:

    Pearn has nothing to do with this recent success … PG would be ignorant to think that … the move was purely doing something for the media without doing anything…

    So lets not all jerk each other off yet.

    • Forum Dog says:

      I’m not gonna say that the Pearn firing wasn’t related to the call for heads by the media and fans, but I don’t think it is simply a case of Gauthier passing the buck and being yellow-bellied about it either. Not sure what Pearn’s coaching responsibilities were exactly, but a few things have improved/changed considerably over the last few games:

      1.) Defence has tightened up
      2.) Powerplay has sparked to life
      3.) The roles and influence of Ladoceour and Cunneyworth have increased considerably (you see a lot of dialogue between the players and the Randys)

      On that last point, Ladoceour and Cunneyworth were no-nonsense players during their professional careers, which were respectable. They were tough players, Ladoceour particularly. So, you get rid of a coach who is a close friend of Martin’s (warning to Martin), and you give more voice to two no-nonsense coaches who are chomping at the bit to prove themselves. Not necessarily a bad move in my mind.

      Not saying it is the reason they are playing better, but I don’t think chalking it up to a lack of fortitude on Gauthier’s part really gives enough respect to the inner-workings of the organization and how it evaluates its business. Something was wrong with the way the game was being played/coached, and it has been righted, at least temporarily. A lot of these young players have played for The Two Randy’s before, so there is a comfort level there as well.

      • Bouleau noir says:

        I tend to agree with forum dog here, obviously Pearn’s responsabilities now being filled by Cunneyworth and Ladouceur is by itself a significant change….. change bring new sets of consequences and those were favored by Gauthier for the positive impact they would have on the team….. in the now and throught time.

        Gauthier didn’t elaborate only suggesting that an “out of the box” thinking is sometime a good thing….. althought we know that Martin pleaded for statu quo, Gauthier held his ground anyway.

        Athought Pearns was specifically in charge of our PP and PK units which were at the root of our problems Gauthier refused to associated the two as the reason for a change among the coaching staffs, Gauthier might be a nice man but thankfully that doesn’t stop him from acting when he needs to and when I looked at our team stats when playing 5-on-5 ( 7th overall in goals for/against ratio ) I knew where our Achillis Talon was, so of course I welcomed the change and now as I understood it special team is a shared responsability, Cunneyworth is our PP man and Ladouceur is our PK guy, I like that,…. and so far things have been perking up both ways and are looking promising again.

        As a whole I love the change, I welcome the presence of Ladouceur behind the players bench during games, unlike Pearns he is engaging and was an NHL defenceman which is a benifit to our young D squad…. he will be more usefull there than away up watching from galleri.

    • Polar Bear says:

      Results is results. If they win it’s a good move. If they start losing again someone else has to go. That’s what management is all about.

  4. ffenliv says:

    Does anyone else feel more optimism now than they did pessimism during the losing streak? I made a number of posts during the dark days 2 weeks ago about how the team was, on a game-by-game basis, showing quite a lot of failure, however I always felt they’d come out of it.

    Now that they’re almost .500, it feels to me that the season is headed where I always thought it was: a team that will play mostly .500 hockey, puntuated by some short winning streaks that will combine for a finish somewhere in the 5-7th place range.

    I think the bad start might have moved that more to 6-8th place, but still, it sure feels good now.

    I can’t believe how well some of the line combos clicked during the stretch of three games in four nights (something I was sure was a recipe for a 1-2 record, despite improved play against Philly).

    In other news, watching that young Oilers squad on TV last night was extremely entertaining. Some of those kids have an incredible feel for the game that you just can’t teach.

  5. SeriousFan09 says:

    DJ King is being waived by the Capitals.

    *Ducks out of room due to throwing a live grenade*

    – I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
    SF09 on Twitter

  6. JD_ says:

    Final reminder, if your kids are TOTin’ out on the West Island tonight – and you plan to be in the vicinity of Kirkland – we’re holdin’ another fundraiser for the Montreal Canadiens Children’s Foundation.

    Since its inception in August 2000, the Foundation has donated upwards of $12 million to 425 charitable organizations from across the province of Quebec which help underprivileged children.

    You’ll find a slideshow of the 2010 Halloween display here. The 2011 edition includes a couple of new features, along with the usual Tweakin’™.

    Have a fun and safe night.

  7. dudurules says:

    Scott Gomez waived maybe? Rumour right.

  8. A-Titties says:

    Jack Todd is hopeless – he writes too bad no one was watching the World Series? It was the biggest audience to watch a world series since 2004, when the Sox won their first series in FOREVER. Seriously, where does he get his info from? And Luis Pujols? He’s only the best player of his generation, you could at least get his first name right!

  9. Ian Cobb says:

    What do you mean, Gomez is in good health?

    Good health is merely the slowest possible rate, at which one can die.

  10. savethepuck says:

    Price, Khabibulin, Jagr named 3 stars of the week

    “They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
    Carey Price

  11. HabinBurlington says:

    Article discussing how Florida and Tampa Owners getting some hockeybuzz going. Amazing, still apparantly can get some tix to Florida games for $4 each.

    NBA Strike is best thing possible for hockey in markets like these, hopefully, they can capitalize. Teams in the Southern US markets that can’t make a go in a season with no NBA really need to be re-evaluated.

    • shiram says:

      Buddy of mine in Texas gets free Dallas Stars ticket at his local bar, they get free hockey tickets for drinking beer… He usually does not use them either.

      Moen for powerforward 2011/12!!

    • Habso says:

      It’s easy for hockey to be sold out in Winnipeg, thats all there is to do there. In south Florida the Panthers have to compete with the NFL, NBA, MLB, and a very popular UM college football team.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I am not comparing markets, just stating that this would be an opportunity to possible pick up some more fans.

        • Habso says:

          anythings possible, but I think the US economy is gonna kill a few more teams before all is said and done. The Panthers will be lucky if they survive. Same goes for at least 4 or 5 other teams.

  12. Iceberg84 says:

    Apparently Weber and Gorges are in the top 20 +/- in the NHL. When the heck did that happen? Sounds good to me though!

  13. 44har48 says:

    Not much else to say on here, you guys, as you ususally do, beat me to it! I will say this though…after reading Jack Todd this AM, I remember why I don’t usually waste my time reading his garbage anymore. He is a real pisser, and should be let go like Pearn was, only not offered another job. Then he can write about his own sorry $%& 🙂

    • habsfan reduxit says:

      … next time, let us know what you really think. And while you’re at it, maybe you could add a few links to some of your better offerings along the literary vein. And perhaps the ISBN number of your latest book.

      “Whenever you have the puck, and don’t know what to do with it, put it in the net.” – Toe Blake

      • slapshot777 says:

        Are you related to him or have a man crush on him or something. You can have a book and still be an A hole.

        To you from failing hands we throw the torch, be yours to hold it high.

    • Bripro says:

      I’m with you 44.
      Jack Todd is the eternal cynic.
      I read it often enough to ask myself the same question.
      I had read in one of his articles some years ago that he had dodged the U.S. army. Hence his oppresive emotions.
      I think they kicked him out.

  14. price named nhl first star of the week


  15. V says:

    For those that think Gomez will be sent to minors or get fourth line duty when he returns, please put down your crack pipe and listen for a second.

    Gomez taking his normal spot centering the first/second line is good news for the development of Eller and Desharnais. I know he does not bring all that we want, but his presence gives these guys the space they need to grow into strong future roles without the burden of unrealistically high expectations.

    And if that is not enough, if JM demoted Gomez, he would wear any bad results. If he keeps using Gomez in the role he was acquired to fullfill, the responsibility for his failures is on Gainey. Now, if you were JM, what would you do?

    • shiram says:

      But Eller and DD are doing good at the 2nd and 3rd center spot, I don’t see how removing them from those duties will help them.
      And also, the lines have some stability right now, bringing Gomez back will mean lines juggling once again.
      I just don’t see it.

      Moen for powerforward 2011/12!!

      • el heffe says:

        there are roughly 7.5 million little reasons Gomez will be playing again with Gionta and Pacioretty. Gainey still pulls Gauthier’s marionette strings and the same way he played Theo over Huet to justify the huge contract he will play Gomez. Its really that simple.

        Charge it to the Underhill’s.

    • samTHEman says:

      No way. How is cutting DD and Eller’s ice time good for their development? The Canadiens have 3 contributing scoring lines right now. Use Pleky the most and split the even minutes between DD and Eller. It helps that Nokelainen can actually play a regular NHL shift. He’s looked good with and without the puck and isn’t a defensive liability.

      Eller and DD are finally finding their stride – now one of them will have to play wing to make room for Gomez? Nuh uh.. Have you noticed how many legitimate scoring chances Eller has had per night? In the slot and right infront of the net, exactly the area where the Canadiens need a big presence. He just needs to work on his finish. Eller since the beginning of the season has created more scoring opportunities than Gomez (mind you Gomez would have some points if Gio would finish).

      I don’t want to discredit Gomez though. He seemed to battle for the puck harder behind the net and played with more urgency than last season. Last season, he would give up, ultimately accepting his fate. However, 6 games in this year isn’t enough to get on his back. Tough situation for JM. Scott can only hope his line with Gio and Max Pac finds its stride cause that line was dangerous on every shift.

      It’s P.K. Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime

    • munch17 says:

      I hope we see Gomez with Cole. I know Giunta and Gomer had success once – but that was a while ago If he can’t produce with Cole and Maxpac- good-bye. But my bet is that he can do better than DD with 2 power forwards.

    • eric says:

      V how do they develop by not getting ice time. Seems to me they’re both doing quite well and the habs are doing quite well without Gomez. Have you been watching any games?

  16. J_P says:

    Pretty amazing how three straight wins vaults you from 15th to 10th in the east.

    That being said, the habs are still in 10th, and there’s still lots of work to be done. Wins over boston and philly would be impressive in the past, but Philly’s goaltenders cant stop anything at the moment, and Boston is having an even worse start than the habs. Not trying to be negative, just trying to manage expectations. It’s not all fine and dandy just yet, but there has been a dramatic improvement.

    Very happy with Eric Cole’s play of late. I dont know if MArtin gave him a vote of confidence or something, but ever since the florida game he’s been really pushing hard and controlling the tempo of the game. Definitely giving us our moneys worth over the last few games.

    • Jordio-oh says:

      Vote of confidence and that Cole is seeing a bit more ice time than he previously was, which is a key for him. He played 11 minutes in the loss to the leafs but was bumped up to 15:30 against the Panthers and 18:42 in the most recent game for the Bruins.

      As it has been said many times here before (and proven with stats), Cole is a bit of a slow starter. However, since he has started to turn it on, it feels as if we’ve just acquired a new player.

      Love the way he can split defenders and cut to the net with some speed.

      • J_P says:

        I also love how the media keeps going to him for quotes, and he’s not shying away. He’s saying all the right things and backing it up with his play on the ice. Maybe the stat line doesnt show it, but he’s been our best player over the last 4 games in my opinion.

    • ArmyFan says:

      Amen on Erik Cole. HATED the guy in Carolina, because he gave the Habs fits with his speed, strength, and ability/willingness to go hard to the net.

      LOVE the guy in Montreal for the same reasons. He’s something the team has been missing for a long time.

  17. Ian Cobb says:

    Two Summit game tickets, two Hall of fame tickets and two reservations for the raffle and pre game dinner at the Baton Rouge. Plus all the other events.
    Total Price $170—–Call Ian at 613-968-9807

    Our 5th annual 2011 Hab’s Fan Summit is fast approaching, Nov. 18, 19, 20.

    Everyone is welcome to any of our events, just identify yourself as a HIO member. But for the Raffle and pregame dinner, you must let me know well in advance for reservations.

    Friday night at Hurley’s pub on big screen Hamilton Bull Dogs playing at the Bell Center.

    We are staying at the Novotel hotel, discount rates at 866-861-6112

    We will all meet and greet at Hurley’s pub Friday eve. Some of us will be having supper there, and name tags will be given out as we watch the Bull Dogs on the big screen playing at the Bell Center..
    Everyone is welcome to join us. Ware you team colors! and enjoy the evening.

    Saturday morning, breakfast is at Chez Cora’s at 8:30am. You can order a la cart and everyone gets 15% discount off your bill.

    After breakfast we walk over to the Bell Center for the Hall of Fame Tour at 10:30am and the Bell Center Tour is at 11:30am. You need to purchase a $5:50 ticket for the Bell Center tour.

    After the tours there will be a professional presentation and press conference put on by former concussed hockey players. Kerry Goulet, Keith Primeau and other players who are Involved in educating the effects of concussion, depression and neurology rehabilitation.
    (location is the Novotel hotel, just up the street)

    At 3pm the Children’s Foundation charity raffle at the Baton Rouge rest. bring one item to donate each if possible, so everyone gets a gift to go home with. We have raised over $6000 to date.
    Then our pre game dinner. With guests.

    After that we walk across the street to the Ranger and Hab game.

    After the game the 2nd floor of Hurley’s pub is reserved for us again, to celibrate the win. Anyone may join us, just identify yourself as a HIO member.

    Please be generous with your charity raffle gifts and your purchase of raffle tickets. It is a way for the HIO community to give back to less fortunate kids. Our group HIO fans have raised over $6000 to date for the kids.

    Enjoy talking hockey and meeting your wonderful HIO community at this years Summit.

    See ya there.

    Ian Cobb
    HIO Fan Summit Organizer (613-968-9807) if you need anything.

  18. hansolo says:

    Re: Pearn

    Sorry if this is beating a dead horse but I’m getting a little tired of media types, who know absolutely nothing about this subject, pontificating on it as though they have a God-given right to.

    Technically, Pearn wasn’t fired, per se. In a corporate “restructuring,” he ended up with different responsibilities than he had before. He was offered another position in the organization. All the know-it-alls in the media who feel they are entitled to have an opinion on this matter (which they then necessarily have to foist upon us) seem to forget this little point. Pearn wasn’t turfed out on his behind 2 months before Christmas facing the prospect of a cold winter with no income coming in.

    It’s every organization’s prerogative to restructure how it does business. The only people who are entitled to an explanation are the employees, shareholders and the board — in this case, Mr. Pearn, the Canadiens organization and Mr. Geoff Molson. Pearn has been treated better than the majority of folks who work for a living. ‘Nuff said.

    • Jordio-oh says:

      Well said.

      It’s always important to remind oneself that its the media’s job to create, run with, and sometime repeat stories. They get paid to make stories when there maybe shouldn’t be made anything of it. Appreciate the insight of some stories and be critical of those that lack substance and are created for the purpose of provoking discussion and publicity.

    • Mattyleg says:

      Todd isn’t part of the media. He’s part of the clown brigade.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

  19. Ian Cobb says:

    What ever happened to Betts and Campoli’s contracts coming here already injured. What is their status? And is their contracts nul and void ? Betts anyway!

    • campoli is signed and on the LIR

      betts is property of the flyers

    • J_P says:

      Campoli got injured while playing for us in the pre-season, he didnt come to montreal already injured as far as i know.

      As for Betts, the waiver claim was nullified and he was sent back to Philly.

      • Danno says:

        As I recall, Campoli got hurt by pulling his leg in a bad position on some bad ice at the ACC for the Leafs’ home-opener


        “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

    • Chris says:

      I wasn’t aware that Camploi came here already injured. He got hurt on a freak play, but he did pass his physical when he signed with the team.

    • Danno says:

      Flyers should have been fined by the league for sending us damaged goods. It was part of a chain of events that created a setback for us early this season. If Betts had been A-OK he could have been a good pickup.


      “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

      • Stev.R says:

        We claimed him off waivers. Its against league rules for us to have medical files on other teams players and Phili didn’t know we were going to claim him so its not there fault at all. I’m sure once we claimed him Phili told us he had bum shoulders and that if we tested him we would be sending him back to them.

      • montreal ace says:

        I still dont understand why they were not penalized, Habs should have been able to keep him with the flyers paying his contract till he came off the injury list. I did not see any good faith on the flyers part, they pulled a fast one and it cost the Habs.

  20. G-Man says:

    Gomez will not lose his job because of injury. That’s the reality, folks. You can all keep dreaming of burying him in the minors, but it isn’t going to happen. For the first time in a long time the Habs have depth at center and could afford an injury and still turn the team’s fortunes around. Hate him all you want, but Gomez is in Montreal for the duration.
    The additions of Cole, Nokia and Blunden, as well as the happily surprising play of Weber, Diaz and Emelin give the Habs lots of options and an exciting near future for us, the fans. The team has size, speed and a pretty damned good fore-checking scheme (finally). Price can and hopefully will get better; he’ll need to be sharp when the nitty gritty starts in January. All in all, this Habs team is pretty damned good; now all they have to do is prove it.


    When in doubt, blame PP.

    • Chris says:

      No, but he can lose his job for playing terribly.

      Gomez has no choice…he said as much this past summer. He knows that the heat is on him this season to produce or he is gone. Whether that gone is via trade, via burying in the minors or via buy-out, the Habs simply won’t want him around non producing. He’s got to set a good role model, at the very least, for the young kids.

      I can handle him not scoring points if he’s working his tail off and commits himself to becoming a good checking center. He has the skills and experience to do that. But if he continues to play lazy defensive hockey like he did last season and continues to struggle to put up points, I simply don’t see a place for him on the roster.

    • Bob_Sacamano says:

      Why always this hate talk? I don´t hate him. I just think we don´t need him anymore and I also think it´s not a good idea to have a ridiculously overpaid player on your team. I expect him to be here until the end of the season though. What do you mean with duration, you think he´ll be here one year from now? We have Price, Subban, Pacioretty and Kostitsyn to resign. Pretty easy if Gomez is gone. If not, it´s going to be tough.

  21. Bash says:

    The only option for Gomex is third line winger with AK and Eller, with Moen playing moving to the fourth. Other than that he sits and waits in case of an injury. He cannot take DD’s spot; that line looks good right now.
    Gomez does not fit the 4th line center role at all…too small, weak on faceoffs etc.

    Can the Goat trade him? We won’t know until Markov returns successfully. Then the package includes a young Dman with upside offensive (Weber or Diaz) or an experienced vet Dman (Spacek) to fill a hole for an aspiring contender.

    Campoli has no trade value and will be the #7.

    “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” (anon)

    • Danno says:

      Moen is doing great so why move him just to give a create a spot for Gnomez? So I agree he has to sit down and wait for an injury to get a spot back now unless he gets sent down or traded that is.


      “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

    • caladin says:

      I expect we’ll see DD moved to the wing when Gomer gets back. I’m not thrilled about it, but he’ll definatly get his chance to show he’s a top 6 player. I only hope that if (and when) he fails to do that he’s on a short leash.


      Keep Hope Alive

  22. Chris says:

    What am I missing…

    Yannick Weber (5’11”, 193 pounds) is too small to be a top-4 defenceman on a good NHL team, despite his offensive smarts, because he can’t battle down low.

    Brian Rafalski (5’10”, 200 pounds) was big enough to be a top-4 defenceman for teams that were routinely near the top of the league standings and played a prominent role on 3 Stanley Cup winning teams (1999-2000, 2002-03, 2007-08) and 2 more Stanley Cup finalists (2000-2001, 2008-09).

    Rafalski did not even begin his NHL career until 1999-2000, when he was 26 years old, because of the rather old-fashioned thinking that a small defenceman couldn’t cut it in the NHL. Instead, he played 4 years of NCAA Division I hockey, 1 year in the Swedish Elite League and then 3 years in the Finnish Elite League before finally coming over to New Jersey. Only twice in his 11-season NHL career did Rafalski miss more than 10 games.

    Not all “small” players are fragile. Yes, they will take a bit of a pounding as the Lucic’s of this world do their best to lay a licking on them. But the key is whether they get back up. And a good positional defender is far more valuable in my book than a hulking player like Komisarek or O’Byrne that throw themselves out of position every shift looking for a big hit.

    I’m not saying that Weber is as good as Rafalski, but given a couple more years to pack some muscle on I think that he can become a very good top-4 defender due to his mobility and smarts on the ice.

    Rafalski should be used as a role model for all those younger guys out there that are getting down on whether they will ever get a chance. He stuck with it, and along the way helped show that the stereotypes are often code for BS. He was small, he didn’t come from Canadian junior hockey, he plied his trade as a professional in European leagues against non-NHL talent…and he still became one of the better defencemen in the NHL.

    • G-Man says:

      Aww,c’mon Chris! Stop throwing around reality like a wet towel. 🙂


      When in doubt, blame PP.

    • jmsheehy19 says:

      BOOOOO rationality.

    • hansolo says:

      Tobias Enstrom is another such player. Any team would gladly have him, size notwithstanding.

    • JIMVINNY says:

      While your point is valid, there is no way that Weber is 5’11”. Player height and weight tends to slightly exaggerated, but they took it a little too far with him.

    • Mats Naslund says:

      The problem the Habs face is not one of a lack of talent – but redundancy.

      Markov, Subban, Spacek, Weber, Diaz, Campoli (and Gorges sort of) – all play the same game – with differing degrees of success. Injuries aside, there is no way the Habs can throw that many small defenders out there and expect to win puck battles.

      Gill plays softer than a roll of TP. Emelin is the only guy who will look to physically remove a player from the puck. At some point the Habs will need to address the situation to add more balance.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Agree, +1

      • Chris says:

        I agree with this point. There is too much of the same thing on the Habs roster.

        I just don’t agree with the notion that Weber is a problem. Weber actually scored at the same pace as Subban all through his junior career, and was a better positional defender.

        Weber is young, so I would be loathe to part with a player so promising. We’re going to need to replace both Spacek and Gill this summer, so the opportunity will be there to find more physical, defensively responsible defenders to partner off our good, young mobile defencemen (Subban, Weber, Diaz).

    • SeriousFan09 says:

      Given that most defencemen do not round into full form until their mid-20s I see no issue with Weber staying on with the team and developing.

      – I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
      SF09 on Twitter

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Chris, it is not about the singular size of Weber for me. It is about the size of our Dmen as a group. Assuming Gill and Spacek gone next year, our Dmen will be Markov ?, PK, Weber, Diaz, Gorges and then maybe Emelin or who knows.

      Our Defencemen would be greatly served to have 2-3 Dmen with some size to help them. I seem to recall a few guys that played with Rafalski whose names were Stevens, Daneyko and White. There was also a guy teamed with him called Scott Niedermeyer. That combination opens the door greatly to have an undersized Dman on the roster. Rafalski was a very good dman, but if he was surrounded by our current D Roster, he would have had a much harder path to succes.

      Diaz, Weber, Campoli all play similar game. PK/Markov bring beautiful talent, Gorges heart.

      We need some old fashioned Rick Green, Craig Ludwig, type Dmen back there. Emelin may be part 1 of that.

      I think may people pick on Weber, but it may more be that Diaz is shiny and new, so the critics go to Weber.

      That is my take on our D Situation and why Weber gets some criticism, more about wanting more size as a whole on the Backend than his speficic size.

      • Chris says:

        I agree. But you don’t throw away skilled, mobile defencemen that are good positional defenders (and Weber fits that mold) to bring in a tough, physical D.

        This coming summer, both Gill and Spacek come off the books. So there will be an opportunity to bring in some guys that can fit those roles. Emelin also presents an interesting opportunity, as he could be a guy who fits that role as well.

        Right now, we’ve got Subban, Diaz and Weber plus Markov, if and when he ever comes back. That’s fine.

        If people want to pick on somebody, it should be on the guys with little to no offensive game: Gill and Gorges. Those are the guys that should bring more to the table in the physical department as they are the guys that are being paid as stoppers. For some reason in Montreal, we address symptoms, instead of our diseases.

        Our checkers don’t particularly check. Our defensive defencemen aren’t particularly nasty to play against. So instead of addressing the real problem, we instead look elsewhere: Plekanec isn’t physical enough, Weber and Diaz aren’t big enough. It wouldn’t be a problem if the other roles were filled properly.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Yup, thats what was trying to say, well put.

          I just would like to see a rotation going on with the dmen. And early on I realize Gorges/Gill would be exempt due to veteran status, but eventually in season could inlcude them, and get some rest in for the playoffs. I could only imagine if our Habs Dmen actually got some rest in prep for playoffs compared to what has happened the past 2 years.

          • GenerationYHabs says:

            It’s easy to always lump Gorges into his stereotypical hole of Zero offence but plays with a lot of heart, but if he continues to play like he has been so far this year he is on pace for a 45 point season which is pretty damn good.

          • Chris says:

            GenerationY: You are correct in that Gorges is having a nice start statistically. But even with those numbers, Gorges can’t really be called an offensively gifted player. He doesn’t really bring much to the table offensively…his job is to stop the other team from scoring, and he does that well. But he is limited when it comes to the side of the game when the Habs have the puck.

        • Mats Naslund says:

          My point is that if you’re Diaz and the depth chart ahead of you (when healthy) looks like: Markov, Subban, Gorges, Gill, Campoli, Weber, Spacek -> you’re in a tough spot for someone to appreciate what you do bring. Its not good enough to say – if only Gill and Gorges were tougher – then Diaz wouldn’t hurt us so bad. I say someone if not multiples of Diaz/Weber/Campoli/Spacek have to be moved elsewhere because none of them are going to surpass Markov, PK or Gorges (now or anytime soon). You have potentially 1 spot for any of those 4.

          Markov-Emelin (eventually Emelin will get his chance)
          Gill- *little guy here

        • Really good post, Chris. Hope everyone here reads this.

  23. habs03 says:

    I knew Cole was fast before we signed him, but I still can’t get over his speed. Who would of thought that on a team known for players that are small and speedy, or fasted players are Cole 6’2 205 and Patches 6’2 200. Anyone know of any other guys in the league that are big and very fast like Cole?

    • Chris says:

      I’ve also been impressed with Cole’s speed.

      But then you look at guys like Ilya Kovalchuk (6’2″, 235 pounds) or Alex Ovechkin (6’2″, 233 pounds) and that puts it into some perspective. Those guys are absolute beasts.

    • Bripro says:

      I too am very impressed by him.
      One minor flaw…he has to try harder to keep the puck in front of him.
      He has a tendency of rushing so much, he over skates it.
      But how much fun is it to watch him take off.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I think he is extremely conscious to always keep his head up, and as a result he loses a few pucks. Pure Speculation on my part, but based on the neck injury he suffered, the speed at which he plays at, he does not want to get caught with his head down. If that is the case, I am willing to cut him some slack, because I have seen him lose a few pucks. But also have seen him work hard to get the puck back.

    • shiram says:

      Gio is freaking fast too, explodingly so.
      But having those good size forwards that can skate with the best of them is a great advantage.

      Moen for powerforward 2011/12!!

    • Jordio-oh says:

      He’s not labeled as a power forward but only 1 inch shorter and 5 lbs lighter than Cole and Patches, Marion Gaborik is commonly considered as the best skater in the league.

      Another big man who moves well: Patrick Marleau (6’2, 220lbs).

      Honourable Mention: Jason Chimera (6’2, 216lbs).

  24. RD says:

    Jack Todd is so darn tiring to read. Last week, he wrote an article “Time for Molson to take action” and then when Perry Pearn is fired, he says it was shabby and that he was just fed to the wolves.

    Jack, look in the mirror. You are one of the wolfpack you hypocrite.

    You were calling for all their heads last week and now that someone got fired, you have the gall to complain about it?

    Perhaps if the reporting were a little bit more level-headed, maybe Perry Pearn might still have a job with the Habs.

    Incredible how some reporters can talk out of both sides of their mouth.

    • Mats Naslund says:

      Not only that – but he builds a strawman argument – that people actually believed that the slump at the start of the season was a) Pearn’s fault and that b) his firing was the cause of the runaround.

      Its ludicrous.

      He complains no matter what happens. Whats worse is that he’s invented his reasons for being angry, and feeling right in his argument.

    • shiram says:

      I really despise his style of writting, he goes from one subject to another and back again all the time.

      Moen for powerforward 2011/12!!

  25. Chris says:

    If you want to see one major reason for the turnaround:

    1st 8 games: 1-5-2, 18 GF, 2.25 G/G, 3.25 GAA, 3.5 PP/G, 4.9 PK/G

    Last 3 games: 3-0-0, 3.7 G/G, 1.33 GAA, 5.7 PP/G, 2.7 PK/G

    The Habs are giving up two fewer power plays per game and are earning two more power plays per game. Throw in that Carey Price has found his game after what can only be charitably labelled as a brutal start and you’ve got the recipe for a turnaround.

    A lot of finger-wagging has gone to Perry Pearn and the special teams, but not enough has gone to the players for playing like idiots in those first 8 games. They were taking far too many penalties and not drawing any themselves because they weren’t skating.

    Discipline, a strange liability with the Habs under Jacques Martin, has been killing this team off and on for his entire tenure. This is strange because Martin’s teams were historically pretty good at staying out of the box.

  26. Le Jadester says:

    IF everyone comes back and is healthy (i.e. Markov, Campoli, Gomez) plus the fact that Emelin is a healthy scratch ( a player with the Russian National team……….which makes me wonder, who on our team would make the Russian National team ? Markie and Subbey forsure, but who else ? ) What’s gonna happen ?

    The Goat is gonna have to make some moves, no ?

    Is Weber being showcased ?

    Habs, OLE !

    • avatar_58 says:

      Pardon but if Weber keeps playing the way he’s playing it’s Emelin that needs to be shopped

      • Le Jadester says:

        I hear ya, I like the way Weber has been playin”
        But who’s gonna take Emelin when he hasn’t really played that much in NA ? What do you do with 9 D men ?

        Habs, OLE !

      • naweed235 says:

        Webber in my opinion is at best 4th or 5th D who can be used on the power play… Unfortunately his size gets in the way of him winning a lot of battles along the boards… Emelin in my opinion if paired with Markov is easily 2nd or 3rd D… His size is definitly something we cannot afford to trade…and I know he can be good on the 2nd PP wave if given the chance…
        If we HAD to trade one my choich would be Diaz…

        • avatar_58 says:

          He hasn’t even registered any big hits, and his D play was shakey. He needs to prove he belongs here.

          Unfortunately for him Diaz is also playing good.

        • habsguy says:

          anyone with eyes (except maybe JM) can see what Emelin brings to a game, if we lose him it’s going to be the worst in a long line of good players we’ve let go !!!

      • Habfan10912 says:

        Avatar your right on buddy. Weber has been solid and Diaz seems to have a knack to make plays. I like Emelin and would like to see him play but right now other then gill, there is no one deserving of a night off.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I think Campoli is a non issue, he is a long way from being healthy and given he was a UFA no one else was signing, he was a spare part brought in. He should be the lowest on depth chart, we having nothing but a 1 year contract invested in him.

  27. Mattyleg says:

    Mornin’ all,
    Was on the metro today and was trying to read La Presse over someone’s shoulder: Francois Gagnon was saying that Gomez should be bought out or sent to the farm team.
    That’s the gist I got from the bigger writing.

    Anyone have a link for this article? It looked great.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      Not so much advocating either measure as discussing their consequences. Gomez cannot be bought out during the regular season.

    • caladin says:

      buying Gomez out now would be a disaster! that’d put 3.75 mil of caphit on our roster for what..6 years? Just send him to hamilton or to pheonix in the off season.
      Let’s say a miracle happened and Gomer announced he was retiring as of today and his salary came off our cap, could we even spend it effectivley at this point in the season? Guys who make 7 mil and are worth it don’t move around much.


      Keep Hope Alive

  28. novahab says:

    The biggest two reasons the Habs started so poorly. frst they were not prepared at the start. To many preseasons games and to many rookies playing.The Second thing PG just fixed and you can see the difference in the PP and the PK case closed on that issue.Well Phil Kessel started like a gang buster 12 points in 5 game now just 6 in the last 6. MMMMMMMMMMMm one wonders if the steriods are wearing off. After all there is no testing before the season starts you know.Another reason bettman has to go.

    • Tony McLean says:

      Maybe it was aerial spraying.
      When Gandhi Gauthier and Mohandas Martin took over from Bob ‘BGL’ Gainey things went from bad to wuss.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      He did come into camp apparantly in the best shape of his career. His hair also didn’t look as thinned out, any chance he worked out with our friend Jose Theodore during the offseason?

  29. 24 Cups says:

    I guess the problem still isn’t fixed.

    You don’t have permission to access /wp-content/cache/supercache/ on this server.”

    This doesn’t appear when I try to access the site, only when I try to open the thread. I wonder how this is impacting other posters on HI/O?

    • HabinBurlington says:

      It is annoying to me. I still find odd how I can be logged in, have refreshed a few times then go to comment and see I have mysteriously been logged out.

    • punkster says:

      Sorry Steve…meant to tell you…you’re recent negativity has forced Boone to ban your sorry a** until you change your attitude or improve that horrid hook you’re developed, whichever comes first.

      Yes…Myrtle was great and the rough was just as you described. However your hints didn’t help worth a damn. Still…great time!

      ***Subbang Baby!!!***

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Which courses did you play Punkster? By the way reviewed your post this morning from last night. Great posting of the Gladys Knight Friendship Train, this place could use that time to time.

  30. Ian Cobb says:


    Sherrie and Tim (dragon fly) can not make it to the Summit this year. Family matter. They have done all the name tags for us the past few years, and a wonderful job done indeed.

    So I need someone to step up and take this job for me please.

    Their game tickets are now for sale for someone who wishes to attend most of the events, including reservations at the Baton Rouge, pre game meal and raffle. Call me at 613-968-9807


  31. PrimeTime says:

    Only in MTL does the sacking of an Asst Coach gets so much attention. We know we cheer for the team that the media hates the most. The spin is always negative…..not once have I read that Pearn was offered to stay with organization although in a different capacity. Not once have I read that PG showed some professional respect and dignity by keeping specifics out of the announcment. Burke is not the model GM but because he engages with the media (to create his own spin) he gets more props. In fact, most GM’s are pretty quiet when discussing team affairs. IMO, the “philosophical change” is in the teams game strategy of playing a less “defensive system” and transitioning into a more balanced approach to forecheck and get bodies in front of the net. To do so, the D needs to support the team “shape” when returning to their own zone, getting control and exiting back to offense. If PG is the Producer of the change, then JM is to be the Director to make it happen and perhaps Pearn was not quite on board…..obviously the D zone was friggin chaos which usually means the players were unsure of what to do. So Pearn became the sacrifice and I’m pretty sure JM was next if fortunes hadn’t improved quickly. PG was not prepared to clear the bench just yet but sure sent a message that losing doesn’t come without a price. Three wins just bought JM and perhaps PG more time.

  32. novahab says:

    Here is the real NHL code. All CBC personalities must say good things about the Leafs and be negative about the Habs. All Montreal Gazette reports are not allow to say negative things about the Leafs and when the Habs are call classless for making a hockey decision just be a good liittle employee and keep your mouth shut. After all we known the owers are from Toronto.

    • Chris says:


      Because Don Cherry and his sycophant are down on the Habs everybody is down on the Habs?

      The majority of the discussion from Cassie Campbell and Mark Lee was centered on the Habs, and much of it was positive. Yet very little was said about that.

      Elliote Friedman cites a feeling throughout the league that eyebrows were raised about how Pearn was dismissed, and now he is anti-Hab. Never mind that he has been a fairly “pro-Hab” guy in many respects since arriving on the scene at CBC.

      I see the Habs play 50-60 times per year. I’d rather hear about players on the other team, to be honest, because the hockey gods know that we hear pretty much anything and everything there is to know about the Habs already. But Habs fans bellyache anytime their team isn’t the focus of the bio segment, or the anecdotes, or the colour commentary or whatever. It’s tiresome.

  33. joshua94k says:

    It is not pleasant in Boston right now.

    After being known as the ugliest team to win a Stanley Cup, they are now the worst team to start a season as defending Champs.

    Their coach says every game is like a night mare and he doesn’t know how to wake up his team.

    Promising forward Benoit Pouliot has a mysterious illness that Dr, Recchi can’t diagnose.

    Lucic, Ference, Horton are not very smart and now they are taking stupid penalties.

    And things may got worse, their next game is against the NHL’s hottest team …

    They may be undermanned and undersized, and for all we know, they may be undernourished and underdressed, but people will never, ever question the will of the Montreal Canadiens. – Scott Burnside

  34. Ian Cobb says:

    Here is where our Hab’s place this week in the 30 team league!
    I will post these 3 most important stats every Sunday again this year folks.

    Goals Against-30. We are in 21st place. Last week 24th place with 26 GA.

    Total Points—10. We are in 23rd place. Last week 29th place with 4 points.

    Goals For—–29. We are in 12th place. Last week 21st place with 18 GF.

    We are making lots of mistakes out there, but everyone seems to be on the same page, better engaged on the bench and ice. Seems like more communication as well.

    • Cardiac says:

      PP – 13.3%. We are 22nd. Last week we were 29th with 9%.
      PK – 83%. We are 17th. Last week we were 20th with 80%.

      Slow and steady…

      “There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
      – Jerry Maguire

  35. Rugger says:

    Do not like your “chilling” headline. We lost power Saturday night, the power company is estimating midnight Friday night to get it back. Went to visit daughter in Boston yesterday to get warmed up. Thank goodness for our -20F sleeping bags!

  36. Neutral says:

    I think it’s more of a timing thing that has people upset with the firing of pearn. you don’t fire a guy a hour or hour and a half before game time that’s rude. having said that. Pearn has been with 3 teams and none of those teams had success not saying it was all his fault. maybe there’s something there we’re not seeing and management made a decision he would be more suited for an office job, I wouldn’t feel to bad. they gave him a job a lot of teams would have just let him go. anyway right now the team is doing better so it’s a win win….

    • ProHabs says:

      I agree. But at least Gauthier didn’t go down to the bench during a game, insist tat J. Martin call a time out and then give Pearn the pink slip during the 30 second time out..

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Think about the entertainment value, having security take his credentials and walk him out of the arena.

        • ProHabs says:

          Ya, and Pearn would also be walking out with his small cardboard box with the contents of his office.

          Gauthier could then also annoucance to the fans that he has offered Pearn a new position with the club. Pearn will be the back-up Youppi in case the real Youppi is too hung over to show up.

    • Stuck_in_To. says:

      I agree that it is the timing that is motivating a lot of the criticism and the nature of criticism is to pick apart more than is really at issue. However, I also wonder if it is not the prerogative of the organization to sacrifice one of their own for the greater good of the whole. In other words, if the timing of Pearn’s demise inspired the team then everyone should be applauding PM’s move. After all, being part of a team is about giving up your individual identity.

      Now that may be going too far when Pearn was “fired” but that is another issue I have with all the reporting. Pearn was relieved of his coaching duties … not unexpected with the hiring of two new assistant coaches this summer.

      Further, as of his last interview (at least that I read), Pearn noted he still needed to talk to PM about his possible on-going role with the club.

      Telemarketers, lawyers and reporters habitually twist everything beyond reason.

      And what is with the scapegoat label? Who is letting PG, JM or the entire team off easy? Three wins have given them breathing room but a couple of losses lands them right back in the shit pile.

      • Neutral says:

        I don’t know what to say about JM – they lose with him and they win with him – as long as we get enough wins to make the playoff’s – it won’t be a total loss – a cup would be better that’s easier said than done – not always the best wins the cup…..

    • habbernack says:

      Has JM been with the same 3 teams.

      ability is what you’re capable of doing.
      attitude determines how you do it

  37. HabinBurlington says:

    So of the Big 4 North American Professional Sports Leagues, which sport/league has the most “unwritten codes”.

    NHL – fighting code, sacking asst. coach code are examples
    Baseball – the art of pitching inside or when to hit batters code
    Basketball – must be a star player to get the calls code
    Football – not sure, perhaps when ahead kill the clock never run up score on the opponents.

    Baseball has its share, but doesn’t hockey seem to have alot of unwritten codes?

    • ProHabs says:

      There are so many codes in the NHL because you have guys like George Laroque who just wants to take his money and run that he makes up all of this BS.

      Don’t forget the Scott Gomez codes:
      1) WHen you make over 7 million, you are a superstar and everyone needs to respect you and you don’t have to work hard for anything anymore.
      2) When you make over 7 million the coach needs to play you for 20minutes a game even if you do jack squat.

  38. DEANDALLEY says:

    Long breaks between games always kills the Habs.

    They were on a row & now ……

    “Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing”

  39. Nine1one says:

    When do you guys think that Eller passes DD on the depth chart at center and takes over the 2nd/3rd line when gomez comes back?

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I am not sure it is a case of Eller ever passing DD per se. I think in the overall scheme the concept of the third line is to be a balance between creating scoring chances and being a more defensively responsible line for the team. Eller I think is depended on more for his role in our own end currently. That sizeable 3rd line center seems to be his role despite his point totals etc.. versus DD.

    • When he starts putting the puck in the net and not over the net.

      Eller looks great now, what on earth is he gonna look like when his skills peak?

      Shane Oliver
      Brandon, MB,Canada
      R7B 2R7
      Ph- 204 724 8418

    • 24 Cups says:

      I won’t be surprised that when Gomez returns Martin will automatically reinstate him as the #2 centre.

  40. HabFanSince72 says:

    Montreal police rule that poutine isn’t a meal.

    ( They’re also repeatedly citing a vegetarian restaurant for not serving meals with alcohol, because vegetarian food isn’t a meal either.)

  41. 24 Cups says:

    The Habs are presently three points from a playoff spot. The most logical team to eventually drop out of the playoff picture is Ottawa. IF the Sens lose to Boston on Tuesday and IF we beat them on Friday, we will only be two points back of Ottawa with two games in hand. That would also put us at .500 with 70 games to go.

    I realize those are two big IFs but it is also quite doable. Just one more win puts us right back in the hunt.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      You present a scenario where we cheer for the Bruins, this must be some sick Halloween Joke. Are you dressed a Jack Edwards today?

      • 24 Cups says:


        I tend to look at the regular season as a bit of a chess game. Lots of moves happen that eventually impact the chances of the Habs making the playoffs. Some scenarios are controlled by us, while others are left up to the other teams in the conference.

        Logic dictates that Ottawa shouldn’t make the playoffs this year so we just have to grab points when we play them. They’re one of the bottom feeders in the East.

        As for the hatred on this site toward Boston, I have to really say that I find it tedious and repetitive. I don’t really like their style of play but in the end they built a solid club that won the Cup. People need to live with that fact and deal with the present. I understand the hatred that is felt concerning guys like Chara, Lucic and Edwards, but there is so much more to talk about and discuss. All this school yard banter reflects poorly on the site and takes away from what HI/O could possibly be.

        • Chris says:

          Add the Leafs in there too. I hate losing to both those teams, because they are natural rivalries.

          But it has always seemed silly to spend so much time lobbing grenades at the Bruins and Leafs on a Habs site. It’s the kind of trash talk I do with my friends who cheer for the Leafs or Bruins because the fun part is the banter that you get back.

          Here, you just get people agreeing. Where is the fun in that?

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      I watched the third period of the Sens – Leafs game. The Sens D is comically inept. They won’t last.

    • V says:

      Now you have us hoping for a Boston win. Yikes.

      But it’s Ottawa and they are equally reprehensible. But they are going to have their butts handed to them on a platter over the course of a full year so deserving of some sympathy.

      So I am going for Ottawa. We’ll beat them Friday and catch them before November is out… and a loss puts Julien one step closer to the abyss.

      There. Happy again.

    • savethepuck says:

      The more logical way to look at the Bruins Sens game is, who do you realistically think will have more points in March. The answer to that has to be the Bruins. so “Go Sens Go”. Teams don’t get awarded playoff spots or home ice advantage based on where they are in the standings in November.

      “They don’t hang Conference Championship Banners from the rafters here”
      Carey Price

    • Chris says:

      Sheesh, Steve. You’ve alrady got the countdown going until April…you are one hardcore fan! 🙂

      I think the team will be fine so long as Price doesn’t Bryzgalov a couple more weeks like he did in October. He’s the motor for this team’s success…if he’s off, then they are in trouble.

  42. HabinBurlington says:

    Bulldogs lost their Sunday afternoon tilt with the Abbotsford Heat 6-2.

  43. Neutral says:

    The team is playing good right now – my only fear when Gomez returns martin will mess with our top 3 lines and we’ll start losing again.
    Gomez should be put on the 4th line, I think the line would improve with a playmaker on it….

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Gomez is not a 4th line option. I think he should be waived but I am afraid what JM will do with him. JM and PG’s job may hindge on this decision.

    • Neutral says:

      I don’t think they should waive Gomez he’s a better playmaker than anyone on the 4th line. Gomez is not the player he was over his career but he’s at least a good 4th liner….I say send Blunden down and see what Gomez can do before they put him on waivers…..

  44. HabFanSince72 says:

    Isn’t it possible that Pearn was fired for doing a poor job? Not to send a message, not to be a scapegoat, but simply because management thought someone else could do better?

    I can see how it might be deemed a mistake to fire him, but how is it “shabby”? He was supposedly in charge of special teams and our special teams were atrocious. Also, rumour is he did not communicate well with the players.

    I’m not defending the sacking, just wondering why a GM can’t fire an employee he thinks is underperforming.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Further to your point, the NFL Offensive Co-ordinators or Def. Co-ordinators always get fired if their team is doing poorly in the areas they coach and are responsible for.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Agree V. Something was going on with this guy. What I find weird though is he was at the morning skate and then a short time prior to the game he was dismissed. Who knows?

  45. V says:

    Before anyone gets too worked up over the criticism from reporters of the Pearn firing, let’s remember they are reporters. Most know little to nothing about management and like little to nothing about PG and JM.

    Which means most are ignorant and/or biased on the subject. Let’s see how things pan out with the Habs – and if the areas of Pearn’s responsibility continue to improve with his firing, we can judge the merits of the move on our own.

  46. habsolutely416 says:

    in response to jack todds article. didnt brian burke do the same thing in toronto as gauthier did?

    ill be in the slot 😉

    • HabinBurlington says:

      So Brian Burke is now the Model for which all GM’s should copy. Interesting, Does Mr. Todd know what Burke thinks of the media? If Mr. Todd were covering the Leafs, a few times now already Burke would have told him to eff off and then some.

    • Chris says:

      No, he fired the assistant coaches in the middle of summer when personnel decisions are usually made.

      Pierre Gauthier left Jacques Martin and his assistants at the helm. I think the issue is the timing…we’re two weeks into the season, and Gauthier has decided that special teams are an issue. The problem is that anybody with half a brain could have seen that the power play would be an issue with the loss of Wisniewski (who was brought in because the special teams were an issue last season) and the continued absence of Markov.

      The penalty kill was obviously a big issue…it was 8-39 under Pearn, a pretty terrible clip, but some of that blame has to be layed at the door of Carey Price, who was flat-out awful in the Colorado and Calgary games, where the Habs gave up 4 PP goals in 8 PP opportunities. Take those games out, where a normal Carey Price might make some saves, and the penalty kill was operating at 87.1%, which is generally a very good number.

      As I’ve said before, I have no problem with the dismissal…I was never all that keen on Perry Pearn. But the timing was completely dubious.

  47. 24 Cups says:

    Michael Farber, Sports Illustrated: “My thumb is down to the Montreal Canadiens for the firing of assistant coach Perry Pearn. Pearn was scapegoated for Montreal’s stuttering start by GM Pierre Gauthier, who publicly praised the coach he had just dismissed. Which made us wonder: if Pearn were so good, why was he gone? Gauthier said it had to do with global perspective. He called it a philosophical change. Philosophy? Really? What’s next? Montreal abandons Aristotle and goes with Kierkegaard? The Canadiens won the next three games with Randy Ladouceur running the defence, but the sacking of head coach Jacques Martin’s closest aide and the modest winning streak were coincidence, not the blueprint to a Montreal revival.”

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Isn’t the philsophy of every firing being coach or Asst. Coach to make them a scapegoat? Of course no Mgmgt. would ever call it that, but isn’t that the premise in a very simplistic way?

      Would all these writers prefer JM was fired along with Pearn, that way the best friends could try and collect Pogie together and hang out at the bar together talking about The System to bar flies?

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