Canadiens GM Bergevin faces summer of tough choices | HI/O Show

On this week’s show, our panel — former Canadien and TSN 690 radio host Chris Nilan, Gazette sports writer Pat Hickey CBC Daybreak’s Jessica Rusnak and host Adam Susser — looks at what players do you think the Canadiens will leave unprotected for the expansion draft and these topics:

Does the signing of defenceman Jakub Jerabek make Nathan Beaulieu or another blue-liner expendable?

Aside from adding a top line centre, how can the Canadiens boost their offence?

Our HIO Viewer question asks if the Habs overpaid for Jeff Petry?

If the Canadiens don’t do better in the playoffs next year, will it mark the beginning of the end of Marc Bergevin’s tenure in Montreal?

 

273 Comments

  1. StanleyHab says:

    Sens. Rags. Yawn.

  2. piper says:

    Sounds to me like Knuckles is trying to stay on the good side of management in hopes of getting a job with he org.

  3. on2ndthought says:

    of course, a new thread

  4. Le Revenant says:

    New thread.

  5. on2ndthought says:

    @ the Rev re: Spacek
    I hadn’t heard that from Jaro, but somethinhg eerily similar from Gomez (on The Players’ Tribune).

    Perhaps management over estimated the professionalism of the players they acquired.

    Spacek was excellent at gap control, and very mobile. Petry reminds me of a larger (but not necessarily tougher) version. Spacek was a lefty, but played the right side paired with Hamrlik.

    When traded he had this to say “was virtually no management communication with players, the club’s style of play seldom suited the roster, and mind-numbingly bizarre rules were legislated, these childish regulations unchanged even after the pleading of veteran leaders.

    “So much bad stuff,” Spacek said. “In my 20-year hockey career, I’d never seen anything like it. If you don’t like the way I play, kick me in the ass. But no one said anything. It was terrible.

    “But this is a great city, I loved to play here so much, I really enjoyed it. The fans were hard on me, but I understand it’s a big market. I always tried to protect the young kids, to take them out of the (media) scrums.

    “If I’d stayed here, in a bad situation, I’d probably be (retiring). I wouldn’t be playing much, I’d have no confidence and I don’t think anybody would have picked me up.”

    Carolina, by contrast, was a breath of fresh air. Spacek was made to feel welcome by head coach Kirk Muller and, even if he wasn’t playing huge minutes, he knew his role; that was a constant mystery in Montreal.”

    • Le Revenant says:

      He said it to a Gazette reporter in a heart-to-heart summer interview feature.

      So which coach did he not like, Jacques Martin or Randy Cunneyworth? Or are we going to blame Michel Therrien and Jean-Jacques Daigneault for this too?

  6. Le Revenant says:

    To me, there are prerequisites for tanking massaging/managing your roster with a long rather than short-term view.

    One is that you should probably be a bad team already. If you’re pretty good and can get in the playoffs, and maybe do some damage with a couple of tweaks, you don’t go all in for the draft, you stay competitive. Think the San Jose Sharks, who a lot of us thought they should blow it up a couple of seasons back. All they really did was unload some slow defencemen (hello to you, Crankshaft), strip the captaincy from Jumbo Joe and give it to Joe Pavelski, and away they went. This spring, lots of pundits thought they had a great shot at a Cup.

    Two, there should be a foreseeable superstar coming up in the draft. So you go all in for the draft in a Connor McDavid year, but probably not in an Erik Johnson or Ryan Nugent-Hopkins year. Sure, these things are hard to predict, but we saw Sidney Crosby and Nathan McKinnon and Connor McDavid and Auston Matthews coming a few years before their draft.

    Three, and maybe this follows from point one, but your roster should be stacked with veterans on the descending slope of their careers. You don’t do this if you have a bunch of youngsters or players in the prime of their career, even if you have a bad team on your hands, like Colorado. Or the Canadiens. With these teams, you keep plugging away, drafting and developing, looking for organic growth from your current players, and maybe a smart addition or two. Only if you’re getting late in the season and know you’re going to miss the playoffs do you perform a mini-selloff of your Dale Weises.

    And four, you don’t telegraph to the players that you’re throwing in the towel, that you don’t care about wins and losses. The ‘winning culture’ angle is important to a team, you don’t want to turn into the Oilers. So if you have a goalie who is competent and costing you losses all by his lonesome, you don’t unload him for a demonstrably worse goalie like Tim Murray did. Look how well that move served the Sabres: they still lost Connor McDavid and had to settle for Jack Eichel, as GM Murray whined about at the draft lottery. And two years later, the team still plays aimless, unconvincing hockey, despite vets like Brian Gionta, Josh Gorges and Ryan O’Reilly being on the roster to show the kids how to play the right way.

    ———————————————————————–
    “Last season we couldn’t win at home. This season we can’t win on the road. My failure as a coach is I can’t think of any place else to play.”–Harry Neale

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • devhab says:

      Something wrong with a league where tanking is considered by many fans and media as a legitimate strategy, where tanking successfully relies primarily on winning a lottery pick. Something really wrong with a league where fans of a team that finished tied for 7th overall consider tanking the best strategy.

      Giddy up

  7. devhab says:

    Jerabek and the Czechs playing Canada on TSN Friday at 2:00.

    Looking forward to seeing this guy first time.

    Giddy up

  8. Psycho29 says:

    NHL.com is holding a vote for the 50 greatest NHL teams of all time…
    https://www.nhl.com/news/top-50-greatest-nhl-teams-revealed/c-289266752?tid=282169076

    Here are 2 of my favorite teams (I only remember one)

    1976-77 Habs 8 regular season losses,132 points and were 12-2 in the playoffs

    1959-60 Habs Finished 1st in regular season and didn’t lose a game in the playoffs (8-0)

  9. StanleyHab says:

    Weber > Subban

    • habsr4ever says:

      No brainer. Not even close.
      Would love to have both on my team even though PK is not a team player and won’t listen to his coaches. He will wear out his welcome in Nashville too. You can’t change your spots.

      • JohnInTruro says:

        Just a terrible team player eh? Coaches just couldn’t get through to the guy! Man he should change careers! I bet Nashville is dreading the trade!

        • Ozmodiar says:

          Dreger, after speaking to Preds scouts while in Edmonton, said: “to say Nashville is happy with the trade – both on and off the ice – would be a grotesque understatement.”

    • sakuknows says:

      PMD > Hardest shot in the league

    • Ingy27 says:

      Yea. Looks like the habs got the better player… that’s why they are not playing right now

  10. JR-sHabs01 says:

    The man’s love for PK is off the charts.

  11. JR-sHabs01 says:

    Price and Max to the Oil for Larrson, Draisaitle and Lucic.

  12. habsr4ever says:

    go to you tube and type in NHL Name Drop.
    You will roll on the floor laughing.

  13. habsr4ever says:

    Glad Chris Nilan ripped the tanking philosophy. And after the draft lottery results this year – well simply you can see why it still may not work regardless. If your team is close to the bottom and you know darn well you are out by Xmas then I can see GM’s making moves to force the issue of finishing last or close to last. Look at the Canucks – one or two wins in their last 20 games or so to finish 29th and boom – they now get the 5th pick over all. To be honest – it looks good on them. That team tried to tank and got burned cuz of it. There is justice after all.

    N8 is gone.
    Was disappointed to hear about our new D signing is headed for Laval. I expect him to crack our top 6 and will be disappointed if he doesn’t.

    Preds – I must be honest here I am not into the playoffs nearly as much since the habs have been out. But cheering for a PK vs Oilers semi and Pens vs Rangers.
    Of the last few preds games I watched – PK is their #2 guy to me. Not #3. He has played well. But sorry Josi is their best dman by a stretch. Man is he good. PK has his moments out there for sure but I’ll take Josi over him any day.
    Feel bad for Sid obviously.
    And sorry but the Sens or Rangers are not nearly as good as the Pens. Without Sid they may have a chance because I am still thinking Fluery is going to suck sooner or later but hasn’t yet. If Sid comes back which it certainly looks like he will. Pens are in the finals and I would say they are going to play the Preds. Preds are on a roll for sure with 4 really solid Dmen and some scoring up front. The Ducks will give them a hard series though. Oilers won’t. Just my take on the west.

    I think many get the sense Bergy is going to make some significant trades this off-season. Looking forward to seeing how it all shakes down by September with our roster. Disappointed to hear Hickey saying Habs are going to pay Markov again ($5.75M). He’s good but come playoff time – sorry he is not a top 4. So time to move forward and let him walk or sign him for $4 M to play on our third pairing and tutor Chevy.

    • Habfan17 says:

      It is only opinion of the panel and conjecture that Jerabek is heading to Laval. He was the 5th leading scorer among defencemen in the KHL. Look how well Zaitsev did, he had 26 points in 46 games in the KHL then went to Toronto and had 36 points in 82 games. They said he is small at 5’11”. There are other defencemen that do fine in the NHL and Markov is only an inch taller.

      I would take what they said with a grain of salt.

      Habfan17

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      Does Josi kill penalties? He doesn’t. Only PK and Ellis play both the PP and PK. Number one Dmen kill penalties.

      • habsr4ever says:

        Josi can run a blue line corps. He is a legit #1 period. Did you watch the world cup? Just say’in. He is awesome.

        • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

          Offensively he is awesome but defensively he clearly is not. If Josi is such a great one then why did Poile trade Weber for a defender with a greater cap hit??? Josi is not a shut-down Dman and, according to all the pro-Weber posters here, you are not a number one Dman if you can’t shut people down one on one.

          • habsr4ever says:

            PK is not a shut down dman either. He is good defensively but let’s not pretend he is a shut down dman. He is too high risk of a player to be that type of dman. Again he is good but not ELITE if that is fair. And he is not paid to be a shut down guy. He is paid for what he can do like he did in game one vs St Louis. If he was great at either consistently he would have made team Canada.
            Weber brings O and D and nobody wants to go into the corner with him. He is consistent and steady as they come who is very low risk. Hence one of the top dman in the NHL.
            Josi is just fine defensively too. And he does kill penalties. But his offensive IQ and overall offensive game is off the charts. They save his game more so on the pk for offense 5 on 5 with that d corps. Again cuz they CAN do it with the D they have on their roster who are just as good as him if not better. R U telling me on 27 other teams in the NHL he wouldn’t be on the PK for at least a shift?
            Just my two cents.

          • RightNyder says:

            Not hard to figure out who Nashville’s No. 1 D-man is:

            Nashville’s defence ranked by 5v5 defensive efficiency (CA/Possession)
            Out of 174 qualifiers
            5 Subban
            13 Ekholm
            28 Josi
            44 Irwin
            94 Ellis
            Also, Subban is 10th in Adj Offensive Efficiency and 15th in Adj Defensive Efficiency (out of 174 qualified players).

            So, five-on-five, he’s one of the top 5 defenders in the league. Overall, he’s among the top 10 offensively and top 15 defensively.
            But he’s not their No. 1? Nope.

            Also, this: 5-on-5 Relative Corsi For % since All-Star Break
            Preds P.K. Subban: +5.27% Habs Shea Weber: -1.15%
            What happens if that continues?

            And I know, I know. Fancy stats only tell part of the story. So do Norris Trophies and playoff performances. I guess topping active D-men in PPG isn’t good either.

            Love Weber. But, as always, if we win the Cup, it’s a great trade. Otherwise, I’d rather be entertained by PK (the good and the bad).

    • myron.selby says:

      So you figure Markov isn’t top 4 anymore? Funny the numbers don’t seem to support that. He was tied for 13th in points per 60 minutes played for defensemen this year. That sure sounds like first pair to me. And most of the year he played second pair so those numbers are pretty impressive.

      • habsr4ever says:

        Markov is too old and slow. He is a top unit PP guy with his great offensive IQ and passing skills but sorry defensively – he gets burned due to his lack of foot speed. I just want us to move forward from him. Especially if he wants similar dollars again this season.

        • myron.selby says:

          And yet this slow old man who is getting beat defensively managed to be +18 in 62 games for the third best +/- on the team. Must be using black magic.

          He sees the ice better than almost anyone in the league. He more than makes up for his loss of foot speed by his superb anticipation and making sure he’s in the right place.

          He was our best d-man on a lot of nights. I’m not sure how else to argue this. He makes every partner he plays with a couple of notches better than they are on their own. And that goes for when he plays with Weber too.

          • habsr4ever says:

            REGULAR season stats and he played with Weber since February.
            He had a solid season (his best in 3 years) I can’t argue that but yet in the playoffs he simply can’t handle anything close to 20 minutes any more. 15-17 minutes a night he is solid but again only top 4. Not top pairing.
            Time to move forward. I am probably in the minority here on him and that’s fine.
            But $4 M to 4.5 M is all I would pay him.

      • The_Rocket_Returns says:

        I’d actually flip this around, Myron — I think Markov is great at 5-on-5 and a good penalty killer too, but he’s bad on the power play. 12 points in 62 games and it struggled with him there. I’d use him like the Caps do Alzner: 20 minutes as an even-strength and PK guy.

        … Koivu to Zednik to Kovalev …

  14. Cal says:

    Nilan believes that the Habs are a good team right now. They are exactly that. Good. Not a contender, but good enough to get bounced out of the first round. He believes that Montrealers won’t put up with a 2-3 year tank. He’s wrong. After 24 years of not being close enough to even get a glimpse of the Cup, I think Montrealers want a Cup contending team, no matter what it takes. This bs of accepting how mediocre this team is year after year in spite of Jesus Price is accepting a cycle of never being quite good enough because it’s tough to win a Cup. Tell us something we don’t know.
    The Habs put too much value in vets that don’t deliver when it counts.
    Hab fans are stuck with winning the Brian Savage Cup every year.
    Changes, from the top on down, have to be made to get better. Shuffling 3rd and 4th liners in along with depth D isn’t a GM’s only job.

    • The ice ghost says:

      We need a goalie.

    • BC (Because of the Cats) says:

      I agree. Fans want a contender. If it takes tanking for a couple of years, I think most would accept it. I wish the team would drop the goal of making the playoffs every year on the grounds that “anything can happen;” announce that the goal is to win the Stanley Cup and adopt the measures necessary to build a contender.

      “We gotta lotta dep.”

      • habsr4ever says:

        U keep forgetting there are ZERO guarantees that works. We are not the 30th place team over all no matter how hard we will try to be. And with draft lottery now it is less and less likely even if you finish down there you will get the top pick or two.
        Our team is solid. And closer than people think.

  15. devhab says:

    re: Protecting N8

    see https://www.capfriendly.com/expansion-draft

    “Players who meet or are projected to meet the exposure requirements are highlighted in green”

    N8 is not highlighted in green, which if I’m interpreting this site correctly means he cannot be claimed. If you understand it differently, please explain.

    We are required to leave one defenceman unprotected. And, that has to be one of Weber, Emelin, Davidson or Benn.

    Giddy up

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      “who meet or are projected to meet the exposure requirements”…this makes zero sense. If the Habs do not want to lose N8 for free, they have to protect him or work out a deal for LV not to take him. If the Habs do not protect N8 they have two ways to pick him up since he is a 2017 RFA:
      1) just pick him in the draft
      2) sign him as a RFA which they will have to do anyway. This would still count as Mtl’s lost player.

    • Habfan17 says:

      From what I understand, all RFA’s and UFA’s are open to Vegas to speak with and if they can come to a contract agreement, they would count as the player the team would lose. Beaulieu is an RFA which means he cannot be protected and is available.

      Habfan17

      • devhab says:

        Here are the rules.

        https://www.capfriendly.com/expansion-draft-faq

        Forwards 2
        under contract in 2017-18, AND
        played in 40 or more NHL games last season, OR
        played in 70 or more NHL games in the last two seasons
        Defense 1
        under contract in 2017-18, AND
        played in 40 or more NHL games last season, OR
        played in 70 or more NHL games in the last two seasons
        Goalies 1
        under contract in 2017-18, OR
        who’s contract is expiring & is an RFA in 2017-18

        Giddy up

        • Habfan17 says:

          That is part of it, there is also a section regarding UFA’s and RFA’s. They are open season for Vegas. I did read the whole thing

          Habfan17

          • devhab says:

            Where specifically are you seeing a section on UFA’s and RFA’s in that FAQ which indicates all RFA’s are exposed unless protected, and would somehow override what they are saying about “Players who meet or are projected to meet the exposure requirements are highlighted in green”?

            Giddy up

        • Habfan17 says:

          It is a bit convoluted, all first and second year players are exempt, then there is the criteria that you posted, then there are the free agents. Players with full NMC’s have to be protected.

          It also depends on how many defencemen a team protects,
          Option 1: 7 forwards-3 defensemen-1 goalie
          Option 2: 8 skaters-1 goalie
          http://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-expansion-draft-rules/
          Habfan17

      • Le Revenant says:

        UFAs and unprotected RFAs will be available to Vegas for talks prior to the draft.

        If the Canadiens protect Nate, then he’s off-limits.

    • Le Revenant says:

      https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-expansion-draft-rules/c-281010592

      * All first- and second-year professionals, as well as all unsigned draft choices, will be exempt from selection (and will not be counted toward their club’s applicable protection limits).

      Nathan, with 5 pro seasons under his belt, is definitely eligible for the expansion draft, and must be protected or left exposed.

      Note that pro seasons are defined as either in the AHL or NHL, not European leagues.

    • Ozmodiar says:

      > exposure requirements

      A minimum number of ‘green guys’ must be left unprotected. 1 d, 2 f.
      Yes, one of Weber, Benn, Emelin, Davidson.

      Other guys in the same table can be claimed, including N8.

      There is a separate table for EXEMPT players.

  16. devhab says:

    Bonino.

    A couple debates on this recent Oshie penalty. Was it high sticking and was it embellishment?

    High sticking, no. Replay shows no contact with head. However, I think it still should be a foul under the slashing rule.

    61.1 Slashing – Slashing is the act of a player swinging his stick at an
    opponent, whether contact is made or not. Non-aggressive stick
    contact to the pant or front of the shin pads, should not be penalized
    as slashing. Any forceful or powerful chop with the stick on an
    opponent’s body, the opponent’s stick, or on or near the opponent’s
    hands that, in the judgment of the Referee, is not an attempt to play
    the puck, shall be penalized as slashing.

    So, I have no issue with Oshie getting 2 minutes.

    Embellishment? Seems quite a popular opinion that flinching automatically indicates embellishment. Flinching is a reflexive response. About 30 years ago I took a high stick resulting in 8 stitches millimeters from my left eye. Bloody mess. I feel very lucky today I didn’t lose it. I wish I had flinched quicker. So, I’m not going to fault somebody for flinching.

    Ever been driving down the highway and the vehicle in front throws a rock and it’s coming right at you, and you duck. Then smash. The rock hits the windshield. Ducking is just a survival instinct.

    However, in Bonino’s case after he flinches he draws his hand to his mouth as if he had been hit there. Now that’s acting.

    Giddy up

  17. kalevine says:

    the only way Weber leaves before the end of MB’s contract is if MB does too

  18. DipsyDoodler says:

    Revenant – do you ever make it down to Vancouver?

    —–

  19. DDO_Habs_Fan says:

    Disagree with Hickey. N8 will NOT be left unprotected. Look how long MB held out to try to get a decent return for Tinordi (before it became too late). There is no way MB is giving away N8 for nothing. No way.

    • D Mex says:

      Like his peers, Bergevin has to work within expansion draft rules,
      so he may not have a choice.
      When you look at the top D-candidates to be selected from the CH, Benn brings reliability while Emelin brings a rare physical element. The promise of Beaulieu was his flair for offence, so consider :
      – he is coming off his most productive season as a Hab with 28 points in 74 games, and
      – he has 7 goals and 60 pts in 225 games with the CH, and sat (healthy scratched ?) when their backs were up against it.
      Yes – there’s the argument that he ought to have ridden Weber’s coattails all of last season, but his predisposition to bouts of brain-gas got in the way of that. Plus, Sergachev and Juulsen are currently in the pipeline.

      As Jessica notes in the video, Beaulieu played for Gerard Gallant in the Q and Gallant is now in Vegas – good place for a reunion.

      • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

        He will either trade him or protect him. He will not give him up for free. I’ll bet anybody on this.

        • D Mex says:

          Semantics and timing.
          Your initial reference was that he would ” NOT be left unprotected.”
          Believe you’ve already seen my trade wish involving him and Pacioretty to NYI, and I say that, if that or another deal doesn’t come together before the expansion draft, Beaulieu will, indeed, be left exposed, with Benn and / or Emelin protected
          (3D / 4D ?) ahead of him.

    • Habfan17 says:

      The only way to protect him would be to sign him before the expansion draft. All UFA’s and RFA’s are open to Vegas to negotiate with. If they can agree on a contract, then they become the selection from that team, and that team cannot lose another player.

      The only other option would be to offer Vegas some compensation for not talking with him.

      Habfan17

      • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

        “All UFA’s and RFA’s are open to Vegas to negotiate with.” Not true. The teams provide the protected list BEFORE the UFA/RFA window thus Vegas can negotiate only with UNPROTECTED UFA/RFAs. If your scenario was true, they can sign Drouin which makes no sense.

        “Teams must submit their list of protected players by June 17, 2017, and they must expose at least two forwards and one defenceman that have played at least 40 games in the 2016–17 season or more than 70 games in the 2015–16 and 2016–17 seasons combined and must still be contracted for the 2017–18 season. The exposed goaltender must either be under contract for the 2017–18 season or will become a Restricted free agent in 2017. At least twenty of the thirty players selected by Vegas must be under contract for the 2017–18 season, and they will be required to select a minimum of fourteen forwards, nine defencemen and three goaltenders.[7] Vegas will be granted a 48-hour window prior to the draft to sign any pending free agent (RFA or UFA, one per team) that was left unprotected. If a team loses a player to Vegas during this signing window they will not have a player selected from their roster during this draft.” Wikipedia

  20. Habs62 says:

    DDO
    Totally agree with your 3 examples

    I think the most likely or one with the largest supply that we need is a team that has 4 very strong D but can only protect 3. Next would be a team with too many centers and have other needs. Edmonton and Calgary come to mind maybe you could get Bennett or RNH in a deal. In the case of RNH maybe it’s Pleks going the other way with Defense , picks and some cash. Any thoughts

    Edit: I could see Nate and/or Julseen as part of a package. I could also see acquiring a top 3 D worthy of protecting and working a deal with Vegas to not touch a 4th D

  21. RightNyder says:

    Ooder was joking (let’s hope) down below about Plekanec.

    How would we all feel if he was given a contract extension?

  22. JR-sHabs01 says:

    Puds has been TM’d by RN. Burning loins to.

    • RightNyder says:

      My lawyers monitor things closely.
      I’m OK with anyone using them; but the legal eagles only interject if someone tries to make a little cash of their own.

      For instance, when Bellyful declared himself the Mayor of Pudlington and wanted to sell T-shirts, they quickly threatened him with seizure of his Lars Eller undies collection, and he backed away…

  23. Le Revenant says:

    The WHL bantam draft is happening today, and apparently the big story is the battle between the Brayden and Bradns vs. the Jadons and Jayedyns, they’re at 5 variants drafted on each side.

    http://whl.ca/article/whl-completes-first-round-of-2017-whl-bantam-draft

    ———————————————————————–
    “Last season we couldn’t win at home. This season we can’t win on the road. My failure as a coach is I can’t think of any place else to play.”–Harry Neale

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  24. mrhabby says:

    I don’t miss the Brand one little bit.
    Stupid fur coats and fur hats.

    • D Mex says:

      You might want to prepare to be accused of ” hate ” and challenged
      to ” own it ” for not adhering to groupthink here.

    • GrimJim says:

      Expect a lot more gingham in future years collections…

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      I don’t care what a guy wears off the ice. 20 good players who wear dresses off the ice will repeatedly beat 20 puds who wear suits.

    • chilli says:

      You and MB feel the same.
      That’s why one year after the trade instead of talking building around a young nucleus, we are talking about blowing it up and rebuilding.
      PK happier playing with much better players in Nash.
      Not a terrible trade, more of a swap – but it didn’t help us, we lost 4 years and now need to rebuild.
      Habs aren’t close. Should have traded PK for a forward the way Nash did for Johansen.

      • mrhabby says:

        Fur is not in fashion anymore.

      • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

        MB/MT didn’t like PK from day one. The day PK won the Norris should have been the day MB started shopping him. MB must have known the monster contract was coming. If it is true (as Friedman reported) that MB thought PK would take a discount 2 years after his hold-out/bridge, MB was a fool.

        • on2ndthought says:

          MB got swindled by the rising cap, pure and simple. If the cap was now at $80M and still rising, no one would blink an eye at the $9M price tag for PK.

  25. cbhabsfan says:

    It’s appearing more and more likely that, strictly for cap reasons, Drouin may be the young forward needing a new contract that Yzerman has to move in the off-season.

    But every story I read on this lists a whole bunch of teams with Grade A young defence that they are willing to move for a Grade A young forward like Drouin.

    Unfortunately, the only Grade A young defence we have is Sergachev, who isn’t quite ready for prime time yet. Beaulieau is a solid B, but that certainly won’t get this deal done.

    Can someone please explain to me again why we can’t offer sheet this future star? There isn’t a hope in hell of Yzerman matching a decent and realistic offer. And even if he does, it hamstrings him on his ability to re-sign Palat and Johnson this summer.

    For some reason, the offer sheet is considered something only a crazy-man GM would attempt in NHL these days. Why? Is it because if he does, no one will ask Bergevin to go out for coffee at the GM meetings, or is it something more serious?

    http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/tb170501.html

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/5-Jonathan-Drouin-Trade-Scenarios-Already-Being-Discussed-More–Buzz1/1/84952

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      Signing Drouin to a monster contract is perceived as a gamble given the supposed issues with his maturity. Last season Kucherov was a sure thing IMO.

    • Ozmodiar says:

      >Can someone please explain to me again why we can’t offer sheet this future star?

      Because it’s difficult?

      • Le Revenant says:

        I read before this is known as the Kübler-Ross effect.

        Or was it the Kublai Khan effect?…

        • DipsyDoodler says:

          Nope. Kubler-Ross described the 5 stages of a losing playoff series:

          1. Denial after losing game one. A few bounces the other way and we’d have won that game.
          2. Anger, after losing game 2. These guys always choke.
          3. Bargaining. After winning game 3. We’re not out of it. If we win the next game it’s a three game series.
          4. Depression, after losing game 4. Oh well, it’s over now.
          5. Acceptance, sometime in the summer. We can trade for Tavares and McKinnon.

          —–

    • The_Rocket_Returns says:

      Because the GM community is a good-ol’-boy network. Nobody’s going to do anything to rock the boat or ruffle anyone’s feathers, because down the line you might need one of the other 29 guys to hook you up.

      … Koivu to Zednik to Kovalev …

    • Le Revenant says:

      I’ve posted on this before, but as a GM of a NHL team said to Bob McKenzie (I think), the problem with offer sheets is that the amount you offer the player has to a huge amount for him to accept the deal. Then the player’s team will still match the offer, as the Canucks once did with an offer from Philly’s Bobby Clarke for Ryan Kesler, and you’re back to square one anyway.

      Or, potentially, the team fails to match the offer, and now you’ve landed the player, and you’ve now wrecked your own salary structure.

      Imagine how awkward it would get in the dressing room if Nikita Kucherov was the highest-paid player, ahead of Carey Price or Max or P.K./Shea. Or he was signed by Pittsburgh and he made more than Kris Letang or Sid or Evgeni. Not quite Vince Ferragamo on the Alouettes bad, but close.

      Also, as Dipsy pointed out yesterday, on top of your overpaid player, you now have to give Tampa all those picks in compensation.

      • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

        7 million per season would have a been a good offer for Kucherov. Yzerman would have matched it thus forcing him to spend 2.3 million more on his cap. Why would this have been a bad thing? Why make an opponents job easier? I don’t understand this. How does MB being friendly with Yzerman (who stole Brisebois away) help the Habs? It doesn’t it….it helps himself.

        • Le Revenant says:

          The offer sheet as a way to hamstring your opponents definitely makes sense, it was heavily promoted by Vincent Damphousse in relation to Mr. Kucherov, he saw it as a no-lose proposition, either way.

          Steve Yzerman also stole Guy Boucher from us. Not too crazy about the guy, especially after that Gabriel Dumont-Michaël Bournival stunt he pulled last summer.

          As far as Julien BriseBois, I see him more as being ‘parked’ in Tampa, available and being groomed until we’re in the market again, instead of being irretrievably lost. So I wince when a Benoit Groulx gets hired by a competitor, but then try to see it as the pond being stocked.

      • The Big E says:

        In theory an offer sheet could work where the two GMs fundamentally disagree on the value of the player. Let’s say Bergevin and Galchenyuk are in negotiations this summer. MB is determined that a 2-year $2.5 million per year bridge deal is the most that is appropriate. Alex and his dad are dead set that six years at $6 million per is the lowest they can go. We are all set for a replay of the PK negotiations … and then another GM, unable to find a Rick DiPietro in his organisation and determined that Alex is destined to be the next Great One, offers Alex the “six for six” contract he wants, and MB is content to take the picks instead of screwing up his cap space plans.

        Alex gets paid what he thinks he’s worth. The interloping GM gets his player and pays him what that GM thinks he’s worth. Bergevin avoids drastically overpaying, and gets some picks in return (which he can then trade away in the spring for a new 3rd-pair set of defencemen or half a fourth line?)

        But if the two GMs are essentially in agreement on the value of the player, then (especially in a salary cap league) it’s folly to try to overpay to pry him out of his existing team.

        And Shea Weber can correct me if I’m wrong but … if a player signs an offer sheet and then his home team decides to match it to keep him, the resulting contract is JUST for the money/term, and other terms (like no-trade clauses &c) from the first offer sheet don’t get carried over into the new contract. So … less attractive to players who want to add some sort of no-trade clause or whatever to their contract.

    • New says:

      Aside from all those other reasons your concept seems to be I want you on my team, you are unsigned by your team, I will give you money, you will come work for me.

      I am not sure players think like you do. They just spent 5 years with a team and have another three to go to UFA. They have been creeping up the salary ladder, have buckets of friends, their own place, activities and groups.

      So you send their agent an offer sheet. The agent asks the kid what he wants to do. The kid would usually say “Work something out with my team. This is where I live and work. If not, then we’ll talk.” No one ever hears about the offer sheet because it is never signed.

      The whole concept is ill conceived but every now and then it likely helps move negotiations along.

  26. bwoar says:

    Hey Oz : If Marc Bergevin says it’s hard to find PMDs in this league, then you can bet 29 other GMs are laughing all the way to the PMD fountain they’ve hidden from him, next to all the centres he’s missed out on.

    Pretty much the guy says anything he can’t handle is hard, but at least half his counterparts somehow manage.

    Since May 25, 2016 these PMD changed teams through trades: Oduya, Streit, Shattenkirk, Nesterov, Subban, Nick Holden, Anthony DeAngelo (21 years old!), Kulikov, Yandle, Goligoski

    Not all are top flight, but it’s certainly not the impossible mission that NHL GM makes it out to be.

    EDIT: that’s 2016

    • ooder says:

      don’t forget seth jones, larson, tyler myers and im sure there are others.
      but as you know.. MB’s job is really really hard :'(

      ——————
      It’s nice that MB got players who hate to lose.
      If only he also got some that could do something about it

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      If MB gets rid off N8 and Emelin, I would not be surprised to see him take a flier on Kulikov. Hasn’t reached his potential but can play 20 min/game easily.

    • Ozmodiar says:

      I think MB was referring to quality, top-pairing, d-men rather than the near / sub 20 minute guys.

      An interesting quote coming from a GM who traded away the type of player he claims is so hard to come by.

      I agree that acquiring this type of player isn’t has hard as he makes it out to be – like the #1 centerman. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if fellow GMs are having a little chuckle at his expense.

      • bwoar says:

        Especially seeing DeAngelo, a promising young player drafted 19th overall by TB, acquired for a 2nd round pick… these things MB says, I gotta shake my head.

  27. B says:

    FYI: The IIHF World Championships Start Tomorrow (Friday)

    Complete TSN Broadcast Schedule:
    http://www.tsn.ca/2016-17-canadian-hockey-on-tsn-schedule-1.117895

    Canada’s Games (all on TSN):
    Friday May 5th 2pm vs Czech Republic
    Sunday May 7th 6am vs Slovenia
    Monday May 8th 10am vs Belarus
    Thursday May 11th 2pm vs France
    Saturday May 13th 2pm vs Switzerland
    Monday May 15th 10am vs Norway
    Tuesday May 16th 2pm vs Finland

    Playoffs (all on TSN):
    Thursday May 18th – Quarter finals
    Saturday May 20th – Semi finals
    Sunday May 21st – Gold medal game

    Rosters:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_IIHF_World_Championship_rosters

    Habs Playing:
    Plekanec and Jerabek for the Czech Republic
    Martinsen for Norway

    Sens Playing:
    none (too busy with the Stanley Cup playoffs)

    Leafs Playing:
    Mariner for Canada
    Nylander for Sweden

    Jets playing:
    Morrissey for Canada
    Scheifele for Canada
    Ehlers for Denmark
    Copp for USA
    Hellebuyck for the USA
    Trouba for the USA

    Flames playing:
    Johnson for Canada
    Gaudreau for the USA

    Oilers Playing:
    none (too busy with the Stanley Cup playoffs)

    Canucks playing:
    Edler for Sweden

    –Go Habs Go!–

  28. habs001 says:

    Maybe my eyes are gone but what i saw all season in Weber is a very steady D who made very few mistakes and caused very little worry when he was on the ice…A few threads ago our poster who breaks down so many players based on PP,PK and 5/5 stats had Weber giving up around .75 less goals 5/5 over 60 minutes than PK and he gave up fewer PP goals than PK…H

    • D Mex says:

      The next time that poster comments about a play observed on the ice
      – a pass, a goal / assist, a hit or a blocked shot, will be the 1st time.

  29. Paz says:

    Joel Bouchard’s Blainville / Boisbriand Armada are in tough in the Q finals against a stacked St. John Sea dogs team. Go Sea dogs!!

    Once they are eliminated, I hope, Bouchard will sell his Armada to a South Shore group led by Guillaume Latendernesse :), who will launch a new Q team based south of Montreal. No way the Armada will want to fight for fans only 5 or 10 minutes drive from the Laval Canadiens.

    Joel Bouchard would be a terrific replacement for Sylvain Lefebvre.

    • Le Revenant says:

      Yes to your last statement. Let’s scoop him up before the Nordiques resurrect and hire him. Which had been the scuttlebutt for a couple of seasons now, when it seemed Les Nouveaux Nordiques were right around the corner, Bettman willing.

    • B says:

      The Armada added some oomph at the deadline too including last summers #3 overall NHL draft pick Pierre-Luc Dubois from Cape Breton and Alex Barre-Boulet from Drummondville. Barre-Boulet has 14 goals and 29 points in 16 PO games while Dubois has 8 goals and 21 points in 15 PO games. It should be a good series, Blainville-Boisbriand knocked off #2 Charlottetown in 5 games to get to the finals.

      –Go Habs Go!–

    • Donkey Hoat says:

      I always liked Joel Bouchard as a go-to guy for the Habs, at one point I even advocated his hiring in place of the awful MT. Seems like an assistant position would be a natural fit for both him and the CH.

  30. DDO_Habs_Fan says:

    How long until someone uses Nilan’s loser sign as his/hers avatar?

  31. Arnold 56-79 says:

    With the AHL team in Laval will it mean French speaking coaches there too perpetually? After all, the conditions are similar, and the team is locked into a pattern that they created. Presumably there will be more media coverage therefore the same rationale for linguistic preference. If no precedent is set it would mean the current long time coach has priority until another with the same extra qualification is plucked from the more restricted pool of available options.

    • Le Revenant says:

      I see it as a great opportunity to train more personnel for the NHL in the AHL. Before Sylvain Lefebvre, the farm team was helmed by Randy Cunneywortth and before that (another) Doug Wilson for a while, Don Lever… These were wasted opportunities to stock the pond, to train a young eager LHJMQ wiz kid for the pros and eventually be another option for our team. Instead of going back to the well for Michel Therrien and now Claude Julien.

      I’ve said it before, both Laval and Brampton should be staffed by French-speaking coaches who can eventually be the Canadiens’ head coach.

      Add in coaches in other organizations like Éric Veilleux and Benoit Groulx who are toiling in the AHL, and we should be in good shape for candidates when the Big Boston Liar flames out as our head coach.

      • bwoar says:

        Still mad! I love it. Stick to your convictions, Rev, it’s the only thing that works on this site.

        To be fair, Don Lever did pretty good getting the Amerks into a talent factory for Buffalo.

        But your premise is a sound one and I hope that Laval becomes the new training ground for our next coaching staff.

      • RightNyder says:

        I do believe the Canadiens should have a French-speaking coach, for reasons debated endlessly here.

        That said, I didn’t agree with the language thing in the AHL, but you’ve altered my position slightly.

        Now, I don’t care one way or the other.

        • Le Revenant says:

          Stock the pond, RN, stock the pond, or be condemned to revisit old fallow ground like Michel Therrien or Claude Julien or Bob Hartley.

          • RightNyder says:

            You’ve managed to move me off one lily pad, I think I’ll stay on this one marked ‘apathy’ for a while.

  32. DipsyDoodler says:

    A few people have emailed me to ask why I have yet to weigh in on the Subban-Weber trade.

    After a period of reflection, I think I’m ready to opine. I might even pontificate.

    But I’m reluctant to do it on this thread since it might get replaced in the next few hours.

    I just wouldn’t want to craft a thoughtful opinion piece to have it be consigned to the archives soon after.

    Stay tuned H I/O.

    It’s going to be explosive.
    —–

  33. The_Rocket_Returns says:

    Hypothesis: when Nate gets minutes, Nate plays excellent hockey.

    Test: stats from games when Nate had 20+ minutes.

    Results: 27GP 2G 13A +3 1PPG 8PPA

    Conclusion: He’s a top-four defenseman and a damn good one.

    Discussion: Many commenters have suggested that acquiring Jerabek bumps Beaulieu. That is ridiculous. Emelin is a pylon and Markov can no longer run a power play.

    … Koivu to Zednik to Kovalev …

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      Counter-hypothesis: when Nate plays well he gets more minutes.

      —–

    • Le Revenant says:

      Alternative theory: when Nathan is focused and playing good, sound hockey, he gets minutes and his TOI climbs over 20:00?

      • DipsyDoodler says:

        Oh dear. Poor old Revenant.

        —–

      • The_Rocket_Returns says:

        That would make sense, but that’s not what happened. Those 20+ minute games came in three stretches: at the beginning of the season, when when he was demoted after posting a +7 in five games with Weber; in the middle of the season, when Markov went down and Therrien was forced to play him; and at the season’s end, when Claude was resting the top guys.

        So basically he was given top minutes, played very well and then was demoted.

        … Koivu to Zednik to Kovalev …

        • Le Revenant says:

          I know we’re trying to make a point here, but are we exaggerating a little bit here? Was he playing “very well” if two head coaches felt he needed to have less responsibility, and played him down the lineup, or outright put him in the pressbox?

          The stats are interesting, and should be looked into, but to conclude that Nate was playing very well but got busted by his coaches for no reason at all, that doesn’t jibe with common sense.

          • The_Rocket_Returns says:

            Sometimes coaches make mistakes. They’re human.

            … Koivu to Zednik to Kovalev …

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      Why doesn’t MB just do the right thing and fire his buddy JJD and get a good D coach like when he went and got a good Goal coach for Price?

      There is one question nobody is asking about PK’s play in Nashville. How come PK is playing a Weber-style game in Nashville and he wouldn’t do that here? Pretty obvious that he listens to Laviolette-Housley and didn’t give a crap what MT-JJD told him.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Julien I would think has the right to hire/fire asst. coaches as he chooses, I would hope it is he making these choices not MB.

        Completely agree that JJD should go, the development of dman in Montreal under his watch has not been very successful.

  34. Danno says:

    Is trading Carey Price more unlikely than the possibility of trading P.K. was? No.

    ________________________________________

    “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”
    Updates, highlights & great discussions on all things Habs

  35. Danno says:

    No. An ah-pawt-ment in Laval!

    Gold!

    ________________________________________

    “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”
    Updates, highlights & great discussions on all things Habs

  36. DDO_Habs_Fan says:

    MacKinnon is 21 years old and signed for the next 6 seasons. How do you not trade everything for him? This team is not winning the Cup. That being said, there is no way MacKinnon is available…I just don’t believe it.

  37. Habby_Haberton says:

    Definitely hope I’m wrong but I think Scherbak is not going to make the NHL for more than a taste here and there. Has skill but no drive or IQ.

    • sakuknows says:

      That formula has been working for N8 for years though

    • Le Revenant says:

      If we are to believe the reports, the big problem with Nikita is that he isn’t well-conditioned, something the Canadiens and Nikita worked on last summer, and I assume will attack again this year. But one of the problems was that Nikita would expend his energy on a spectacular rush, and not have the energy to head back down the ice and backcheck. Instead of stops and starts, he’d also try to conserve his energy by doing the big circling loops on the ice, instead of following his man, being in position, etc.

    • RightNyder says:

      I saw him live a handful of times in junior.
      My loins didn’t sizzle once.

      That worries me.

      They did warm up slightly for Juulsen, before I had any idea who he was, so I see that as a positive.

  38. DipsyDoodler says:

    Colorado are presumably looking for a goalie or defenceman. Does anyone think one of our two goalie prospects (Lindgren and McNiven) are a sure enough bet to be attractive, or would they be looking for a Cam Talbot / Martin Jones type?

    —–

    • bwoar says:

      I think there’s enough goalie FAs out there that the Avs wouldn’t pay much. It’s doubtful you’d get more than a 4th rounder for either prospect. But something like Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, McNiven + pick might turn a key in a lock somewhere.

    • Habfan17 says:

      Patches, Beaulieu, McNiven, and this years 1st for McKinnon. Move Galchenyuk to his left wing. Resign Rads, bring up Sherbak, put him with Lekonen and Danault.

      Habfan17

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      “Cam Talbot / Martin Jones type”…this.

      You know what scares me? Pitt is going to deal one of their goalies before the expansion draft. Matt Murray is the perfect goalie for them. Sakic can easily load them up again for another Cup run next season.

      If the 0.01% chance occurs that the Habs can’t sign Price, Colorado is the perfect place to deal him too.

    • RUSTIE says:

      Trade Price while we can, we have enough goalies for two nil teams.

      Joe Laplane

    • Le Revenant says:

      I’m not sure we’re any different than any other fan base, but we tend to overvalue our prospects on this forum. It causes us to throw in Chris Thomas or Joonas Naatinen or Patrick Holland in our enfevered trade scenarios as if they significant in any way on the NHL market.

      Cam Talbot and Martin Jones became Cam Talbot / Martin Jones types by taking a star turn in the NHL when Henrik Lundqvist and Jonathan Quick were injured for a long period.

      Our goalie prospects hold no such value on the trade market. Both are unsigned free agents who haven’t really proven a thing yet.

  39. The ice ghost says:

    This pretty much speaks for itself. Bergevin is an idiot.

    http://www.tsn.ca/talent/p-k-has-helped-push-the-preds-to-new-heights-1.742579

    • Forum Dog says:

      It’s an interesting read, but nothing really surprising. PK is a top-flight player smack dab in his prime. End of story. He fits in perfectly with what Nashville is doing and makes an impact of one kind or another almost every time he is on the ice. And he loves a stage, which is why he elevates come playoff time.

      He was a square peg in a round hole in MTL. Coaches and Mgmnt didn’t like his style and, if you believe the rumours, his team-mates didn’t like it either. They traded him for non-hockey reasons (contract, personality) as much as hockey ones. If there is a mistake, that is it.

      All to say that Bergevin is not so much an idiot as a guy who has a different, more conservative approach to player management. Will it get Habs over the hump? I question that, given the tendency to value so-called ‘character’ over skill. You have to have both to succeed.

  40. HabinBurlington says:

    A pretty well done report card on Scherbak, as bwoar mentioned a few days ago, it highlights the questionable linemates Scherbak played with.

    http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/st-johns-icecaps/2017/5/4/15495524/2016-2017-icecaps-player-review-nikita-scherbak-highlights-analysis-breakdown-prospects-habs

    • D Mex says:

      About the time of that pick, I was in semi-regular contact with a gent whose son was in Hockey Ops with the Silvertips.
      His comments then, which I believe reflected the thinking in Everett, were that Scherbak had to work on his game to make the NHL jump, but I doubt even he / they thought it would take this amount of time.

    • bwoar says:

      Imagine half a year to decide to put a talented kid with your other talented players. In a freakin’ development league.

      “There are times that he will be caught flat footed or out of position in the defensive zone, often turning his back to the puck to find his man instead of pivoting and following the play.”

      The day this clears up he’ll be ready to call up to the NHL. My only other concern is similar to Galchenyuk, I’d like to see him play at full-speed more often.

  41. DipsyDoodler says:

    Carl Hagelin – the Swedish JG Pageau – only ever scored against the Habs.

    (Hi there DDO – this is also a joke)

    Anyway, on the topic of improving our team. We should deal with Garth Snow and Joe Sakic. Those two are ripe for the picking.

    (Snow is still GM isn’t he?)

    —–

  42. ooder says:

    it’s kind of sad how as habs fans we laughed at the leafs during the Burke era, because Burke came in and starting talking about truculence, playing hard and being tough.
    Well lo and behold, our own GM now preaches the same thing about getting players who are tough, hate to lose and have grit.
    freaking great

    ——————
    It’s nice that MB got players who hate to lose.
    If only he also got some that could do something about it

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      We’ll really look foolish if he gains 80 lbs, loses his fashion sense, and starts schtupping a local TV personality.

      —–

    • Ozmodiar says:

      Not to mention the trading away of one of the league’s best PMD. Now the Habs really need to fill that hole. Probably would have been easier to find a Girardi or Methot type of player to play with PK.

      • bwoar says:

        God does this ever get old, and yet it never, ever gets right.

        PMD are practically everywhere, and each time we get one all anyone ever does is complain they can’t depend. And they usually can’t. Weber? Diaz? Kaberle? etc?

        With Beaulieu, Petry, Jerabek and potentially Markov is that not enough?

        Probably not. Not until everyone’s favourite lost son is somehow traded back to Montreal. Only then will everyone’s holes all be properly filled.

        • Paz says:

          There are pmd’s, and then there are pmd’s who play top pairing minutes in every situation, including pp, pk, and defend against the league’s best. That’s what Subban was, and what the team is now missing.

          • bwoar says:

            The story varies but the gist is the same. Subban traded away = Habs are now ruined. It’s really, really boring and just about every angle has been taken to justify that opinion. Now it’s a dearth of PMDs. Tomorrow it will be a lack of right-handed skaters. Next week it will be proven that east-west plays from defenders win Stanley Cups.

            You need all kinds of D-men, on that I think we can agree.

          • D Mex says:

            Shea Weber plays in all situations for the globe’s premier hockey country, but if we believe the lazy-boy QB, he isn’t up to the task playing for Montréal in the NHL.

            ” Boring ” doesn’t begin to describe it, altho insider info about players’ tax concerns in Québec is always beyond stimulating … (yawn)

        • Ozmodiar says:

          Ha ha … you list terrible 3rd pairing and out-of-the-NHL defensemen as examples that PMD are easy to come by.

          Here’s a quote from an NHL GM that should set you straight.

          So if we could get a puck-moving defenseman, I think it’d be something that we all want to do. But again, I talk to other general managers on a daily basis. I would say again 90 percent of teams are looking for young, puck-moving defensemen. So those guys are hard to get. Most of the time you have to finish in the basement and draft them. If you’re lucky, you can get one in the free agent market. But they’re seldom available.

    • sakuknows says:

      It’s never sad when we laugh at the leafs (or bruins, sens for that matter) NEVER!

  43. Ozmodiar says:

    More on the Karlsson pick.

    Just from memory, but, in a nutshell …

    Anaheim’s head scout and his staff had Karlsson at ~ 8th on their list. He told Brian Burke that he was the player they should draft. Burke told him that he wasn’t drafting a 160 lb defenseman in the top 10.

    The scout tried to get the assistant GM (Murray) to intervene, but to no avail. Burke couldn’t be talked into it.

    The only time in the head scout’s career that he was overruled by a GM. I believe Burke traded the pick.

  44. bwoar says:

    Wow, good old Jaro Spacek has been training Jerabek during his development? That’s nice to read. It’s no easy feat going from the Czech league to the KHL, never mind having a good level of success in your first season.

    We’ll get to see see him and the Kladno Kid during the WC, coming right up.

    Good link below, Burly.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Did you see the new job which that pantload reporter in your city just got in Vegas?

      I figure Winnipegers are celebrating the departure of Lawless, only problem is that trips to Vegas now won’t be as pleasant.

      • bwoar says:

        I have spent 3 months gearing up to cheer for the Golden Casinos. This throws a real damper on that move.

        But Jets coverage just improved! 🙂

        • Le Revenant says:

          It’ll be interesting to see how he can write stories without making a Jets reference. I used to read Michael Farber’s Sports Illustrated stories a few years back and count the Montréal Canadiens or Expos anecdotes. Although as a Canadiens fan I didn’t mind that at all…

    • Le Revenant says:

      I’ll allow Jaro his good-guy reputation on HIO, but something he said after being let go by the Canadiens stuck in my craw, when he allowed his last season he wasn’t in the best condition, but now he was in the best shape of his life and was going to prove the Canadiens wrong, as soon as he caught on with another team.

      I hate those statements when a player admits he didn’t give full effort to prepare for a season, and I was the schmuck who was cheering him on.

      The last season of the San Diego Chargers, both Brandon Flowers and Orlando Franklin showed up to camp and confessed that they were carrying too much weight their previous, injury-marred season, hadn’t worked as hard in the off-season as they could/should have. Right after signing a lucrative free agent deal with my team. And in the process wasting my last season as a sucker fan.

  45. New says:

    Good show. Disagreed with most of it. Well worth the watch and thought. Thanks.

    • Habfan17 says:

      I did not agree with much either, especially where Jerabek will play.
      I believe that he was signed with the plan that he makes the Habs and can help create offence and to fill in when Beaulieu is traded.

      The one thing that was interesting was the mention that Gallant coached Beaulieu in junior and now is coaching Vegas. I wonder if Bergevin can make a deal. If Vegas takes Pleks, they will trade them Beaulieu for a pick.

      It will be fun to see what happens.

      Habfan17

  46. johnnylarue says:

    @Luke, I have the LukeCenterDraft4000 in my garage. It never worked. After painstakingly typing in the names and point totals of every junior-age draft-eligible player for 2015 (using that awful 2-button interface with up and down arrows for scrolling through the alphabet), I hit the “Go” button as per the instruction manual and all it did was make a farting noise for about 20 seconds and then the display went blank. Then when I switched it off and on again to reboot, the player data had been completely wiped out. 16 hours of work down the drain.

    Would you say the 6000 model is definitely better? I’m understandably a little apprehensive…

  47. DipsyDoodler says:

    Since the hit on Crosby I’m cheering against the Caps, but I think it’s a bit harsh to say they are choking. The Pens are just really good.

    And wouldn’t it be funny if MA Fleury won the Conn Smythe?

    —–

  48. DipsyDoodler says:

    HF17 mentioned Erik Karlsson drafted 15th by Ottawa.

    Little remembered is that Ottawa traded up to get that pick. They were picking 18th, and exchanged that plus a 3rd for the 15th pick.

    The rube, the sucker, the simpleton, who got his pocket picked?

    Nashville’s David Poile.

    —–

    • bwoar says:

      The #1 GM by Gallup poll!
      Pierre Dorion begged and pleaded for that EK pick, too. Looks good on him these days.

    • ebk says:

      They all make mistakes, but Poiles 35 year plan to build a Stanley Cup contender should be the blue print for any and all NHL GM. It’s a thing of beauty

    • DeadEnd says:

      Interesting factoid. Thanks!

      And the guy Nashville used that pick on never played a minute in the league (Chet Pickard, a goalie and the older brother of the Avs’ Calvin).

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      Poile probably targeted a goalie since he had the two best young Dmen in the game. I won’t tell you their names because I know you researched the context of his move. He was going to get the player he targeted for sure at 18 so he went for a no-brainer trade down. If you want to criticize him properly, criticize him for the player he drafted…apparently he didn’t have enough faith that the goalie he drafted in the 8th round in 2004 would become of the best in the past 10 years and have identical stats to Carey Price.

      BTW it is possible he had another Dman targeted who he thought was similar to Karlsson and he could pick up later…did you check that?

  49. montreal ace says:

    I laughed last night at a sign, that a Pens fan was holding. It said that if he needed to charge his phone, he would pull the plug on life support for OV

  50. montreal ace says:

    Bergy can hang his hat, on the fact we were the best, worst, division winners in the NHL. I think if people keep saying we are going to be worse next year, including all the tv commentators, we could possibly win the cup. We could end up being the worst, best, worse team in cup history

    • bwoar says:

      We’re missing an offensive catalyst at forward in addition to Radulov, the rest of the pieces will suffice to be first again next year. Bergy’s got a job for as long as he has Price, Pacioretty, Weber, Gallagher & Galchenyuk.

      Galchenyuk to me is the key to his evaluation – not Subban/Weber, a push as far as been discussed over and over here. Player #27’s selection belongs to MB and was the big moment that he opened on. If he trades that player now, he acknowledges a problematic selection, or poor development, or poor communication given the kid’s shuffles. Maybe all of those things.

      How Price goes, MB goes, but the real barometer is what happens with this kid. If he somehow ends up being dealt for a solution at #1C, MB will earn his 2nd honeymoon. But a failure with the 3rd overall he has gloriously handed, and he’ll have a hard time leaving without a boot in the rear.

      • Habfan17 says:

        Yes, much will depend on what happens with Galchenyuk. I do hope that Rads has agreed to a new contract and that they are waiting until after the expansion draft to announce it and that Rads can help convince an offensive catalyst to follow in his footsteps and leave the KHL for the Habs.

        Habfan17

        • bwoar says:

          Shipachyov! Still holding out hope. Not much else at C gonna help us there. I’d welcome Kovalchuk too, but that ball is in NJ’s court.

      • Le Revenant says:

        Alternative theory: 2012 was a bad draft year, with flops like Nail Yakupov, Ryan Murray, Mikhail Grigorenko, …

  51. krob1000 says:

    On diving….not sure why this is considered taboo….I know soccer extremes are a little much and they do not want it to come to that…BUT…I am more ticked by the idea that refs don’t like being shown up or you are embarrassing htem,etc…to me that is an indicator of bias and means they are not capable of doing primary job of reffing which is supposed to be remaining objective and neutral. I realize they are human….BUT…these are supposed to be the top guys in the world at their craft…their craft is objectivity and neutrality…so why do reputation calls, situational reffing and personal opinion come into it at all? to me that defeats the purpose of having a referee ….anyways….that just bugs me…their only job is impartiality…when that is lost what exactly is their purpose?

    • HabinBurlington says:

      From the article linked in my post”

      “During my own refereeing career, I let it be known to players that they could have their say within reason but they’d better not show me or my fellow officials up with histrionics.”

      Former Ref Paul Stewart

      http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=84836&blogger_id=196

      • krob1000 says:

        Oh I know they do it and I even get it and know I could not do different…look no further than Gallagher, Shaw, Emelin,etc….it is just fundamentally wrong when you think about it though….the whole point of a ref is supposed to be not influencing games, and to be impartial….sometimes I think reffing would be better done from the stands and instead have “usher” types on ice for scrums, etc…. would eliminate the personal stuff…..anyways per peeve of mine…

        • FormalWare says:

          UCRev has often touted the rugby system of the on-field referee consulting with a video spotter – with the conversation audible to spectators/viewers. What could be more transparent?

          If the NHL started doing that, embellishment would tend to take care of itself, through the public shame that the faker would have to endure.

          Spotter: “The stick hit #13 on the upper arm – never came close to his head or face.”

          Ref: “Interesting. I wonder what caused his head to snap back, then? Anyway – no foul. Drop the puck!”


          Montréal Canadiens: “Season after season under the same, low ceiling.” – D.M.

    • New says:

      I think refs are supposed to be fair, not impartial. Hockey is a melee. Refs make calls on what they see. That allows players to cheat because refs can’t take it all in and sort it all out instantaneously. Impartial refs would only call what they are sure they saw, meanwhile the replays and sports highlights clearly show Ovechkin targeting Crosby’s head. Impartial doesn’t even come close to fair.

      Subban for instance embellishes, always has, always will. Heck, his personality alone almost demands he be histrionic on the ice. They look for it. Fair enough. Subban might change and they will then stop.

      Oshie got his stick up on Bonino. The rule actually is having your stick above the opponents shoulder, half his stick was and the shaft hit the shoulder. Normally the refs would let it go, or throw an embellishment at Bonino as well. But Bonino could argue he flinched from the blade near his face, Ovy targeted Crosby’s head, Niskanen targeted Crosby’s head, and in a ref’s view I imagine he said close enough.

      The last thing you want is impartial without all the facts. That is sanctimonious.

      • krob1000 says:

        But… if in stands or outside of glass then nobody is complaining to you, you are not being personally attacked, you do not develop relationships good or bad with players, you are not getting physically and emotionally involved. Theya re still close enough to know what is happening and are still watching he whole game….just maybe have them outside glass….off he board suggestion but I am getting pretty fed up in my old age with watching refs and umpires impact games in this day and age and be so different towards different players, different teams, situations,etc….the personal thing to me still defies the whole concept of refereeing…

  52. sakuknows says:

    Man, it’s a shame we don’t have a Captain even half the man Getzlaf is. Dude is perhaps hands down the MVP of the playoffs so far. Wow.

    • Freddy says:

      Really impressive. Getzlaf usually doesn´t have 7 regular season goals before New Year´s day. In four of his last six he had 11-15 goals. Pacioretty on the other hand…

  53. montreal ace says:

    I think that the IceCaps had a season, where they were trending in a good direction. Their schedule during the season is no cake walk, as at one point were on the road for nearly a month. The IceCaps were not loaded with ex NHL talent, so for the most part played young hockey players. Progress has been slow in some instances, with player development, but some players did start to show promise.

  54. ari says:

    Since happy bergy can’t do difficult job;why he is still there???
    All he is done and will do is to trade away talent and get 4th line wingers who are good in room/foxhole…

  55. montreal ace says:

    Would it be feasible for the Habs, to retain a large portion of Pleks salary, in order to trade him for a younger and more dynamic centre.

  56. rhino514 says:

    When you trade out of desperation you end up with the kind of trade that brought us Scott Gomez.
    I would trade Galchenyuk and Beaulieu for a GOOD top six centre. But if that doesn´t work out, I just hope they don´t end up giving up those assets up for a mediocre top six or give up the house for a good top six.
    Habs also could easily have added another decent winger to the mix if they hadn´t given away Andrighetto for nothing.
    Personally, I think they also need a top Dman as well as a centre to be a true contender but this does not seem to be a priority. It will be one at this time next season when Markov is on his last legs and Weber perhaps loses another step.

    • mrhabby says:

      They gave Andro away cause he sucks period. Other teams can see that.

      • krob1000 says:

        I do not think Ghetto sucks….I think he is one of the small guys who can make a go of it…needs to be in top ix role but he is a pretty solid little guy, tons of skill, very smart….only issue IMo in MTL is a top 6 or 9 that already had other smaller players in prime roles….personally I thought he played very well every time given an opportunity but Gallagher is there long term so if you took him too then you are small in top 6….in a place where is only small guy or on team that is not top end he will do very well IMO

  57. zak says:

    Why is Jessica Rusnak on the panel??

  58. SteverenO says:

    Has anyone ever seen an embellishment penalty called on its own?

    Personally, I would like to see the “offsetting” embellishment call eliminated from the rulebook. If the ref acknowledge s that a player was tripped, slashed, cross checked, or high-sticked, who cares if he “over” reacts? How can someone (ref) who was not slashed or cross-checked know how much it hurt, or whether the reaction was instinctive, rather than contrived?

    On the other hand someone pretending to be hurt when he was NOT hit in a blatant attempt to draw a undeserved penalty, is a call that a ref should be able to, and encouraged to make. I would be okay with those “stand alone” penalties being subject to review, and repeat offenders being subject to suspension.

    There is something inherently wrong with allowing the NHL refs to influence the outcome of the final minutes of a playoff game (in which they mostly keep their whistle in their pocket to “let the players play”) , by calling a penalty to a player that WAS cross checked for over- reacting.

    I say call embellishment ( if there was no foul) or call the foul itself if it occurred, but never, in any circumstances, call both.

    The truth is that, in the case of embellishment after a foul, It’s impossible to know if the penalty would have been called were it not for the embellishment..

    While we’re “fixing” the rule book, can we please get rid of the ridiculous trapezoid? What purpose does it serve (other than encourage teams to play “dump it in” or “chip and chase” boring hockey anyway?

    regards,

    Steve O.

    • Don Birnam says:

      Banano should get an Oscar for last night’s performance.
      Soccer on skates.

      • mrhabby says:

        I agree..total farce that call was.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Referees hate being shown up that way, i would think Washington could be the beneficiaries in the next game. Granted that would only help if the Capitals don’t continue to choke their way out of playoffs again.

          • mrhabby says:

            right..looks like a payback by the refs on the weekend.
            I know whats up with the Caps again. Ove must be getting really pissed off right about now.

          • Don Birnam says:

            How can the Caps be losing?
            Don’t they have better Corsie?

      • ArmyFan says:

        That stunt by Bonnano makes me sick. It completely changed the potential outcome of a close game. There is no place for it in sports – it demonstrates poor sportsmanship and an utter lack of integrity.

        Would love to see crap like that reviewed by the NHL (much like dirty plays where no penalty was called during the game) and see supplementary discipline handed out (fine, suspension, whatever).

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      Good post, Steve-O.

      —–

    • bwoar says:

      Think I’ve seen one or two on their own, but you’re right and I can’t stand that refs call both penalties. If I’m being kind, it’s because they really just can’t tell whether an infraction actually occurred.

      Ditto for the trapezoid. Really bizarre rule.

  59. DipsyDoodler says:

    (repost)

    The Ducks were built without tanking. If you look at their recent draft history they’ve usually picked after us but had better outcomes.

    Year/Pick #/Player

    2013/ 26/ Shea Theodore (powerplay QB)
    2013/ 25/ Michael McCarron (a project, at best)

    2012/ 6/ Hamphus Lindholm (future all-star)
    2012/ 3/ Alex Galchenyuk (future all-star????)

    2011/ 30/ Richard Rakell (top 6)
    2011/ 17/ Nathan Beauieu (not sure yet)

    2010/ 29/ Emerson Etem (traded for Carl Hagelin)
    2010/ 27/ Jared Tinordi (traded for John Scott)

    2009/ 26/ Kyle Palmieri (NHLer)
    2009/ 16/ Louis Leblanc (Ivy Leaguer)

    —–

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      However…

      1. The sample size is too small to properly evaluate the decisions.
      2. In two cases, Anaheim also had an earlier draft pick, which did not amount to much.
      3. There’s a mutual fund effect. There will always be 10% of mutual funds that are in the top 10% over the past 5 years. Generally, this doesn’t predict future performance.

      —–

    • Luke says:

      They also scored Getzlaf at #19.

      You know, a GM with first round pick’s a little like the mule with the spinning wheel. No one knows how he got it and danged if he knows how to use it… but with the now Patented, Newly Perfected LukeCenterDraft6000! you’ll be sure to find late round cornerstone players as well!

      All you have to do is take the emotion out of the selection and pick only the top scoring center available!

      It’s a revolutionary system so foolproof, that even an NHL GM can’t screw it up.

    • Habfan17 says:

      Ouch, the truth hurts! Also a repost from your original post.

      Teams do still find players in the bottom half of the first round. It is harder, but not impossible. Look at Eric Karlsson, 15th overall.

      Habfan17

    • bwoar says:

      Etem for Hagelin was a huge steal, neither are credible NHLers.
      But your point stands – it is possible to build from later in the draft if you can find talent. Our first rounds have been terrible for a long time.

  60. tophab says:

    we have lots of players we should get rid of, flynn,mitchel,martinsen,king, ott,nesterov,benn,pleckanec,and the coach who thinks that galchenyuk can not even play 4th line center.All galchenyuk needs is a steady spot and 20min a game and we will have our star.

  61. Kooch7800 says:

    Jakub Jerabek I have a feeling will be on the habs and not in the AHL.

  62. HabinBurlington says:

    Great to see Habs prospect Michael McNiven grab top OHL goalie of the year award. But in looking through the list of past winners, this in no way guarantees an NHL career.

    http://attackhockey.com/article/michael-mcniven-named-ohl-goaltender-of-the-year

  63. tophab says:

    trading galchenyuk would be a big mistake,he will be at least a point a game player next year.

  64. tophab says:

    weber to leafs for marner,babs loves weber.


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