Canadiens begin busy stretch


The division-rival Buffalo Sabres are at the Bell Centre Monday night.
The Canadiens play eight games, including two sets of back-to-backs, over this week and next.

Dave Stubbs on the mugging of Miller

Budaj praises teammates

Red Fisher on the Hall of Fame inductees

Marc Antoine Godin on the banged-up Canadiens

Pierre Ladouceur’s weekly report card


  1. mjames says:

    I read this fellow Berskshire’s column. It is all very interesting and I guess provides an approach for analysing the Hab’s performance. However we should all acknowledge the fact that however unlucky this team is and notwithstanding its injuries, it is only a fair to middling team with no chance at winning the Cup and only a slight chance at making the playoffs.

    Thank you Mr. P.G.


  2. VancouverHab says:

    Dear Mr. Berkshire: my respects for your autodidactic industry with statistics and your persistence here on H/I-O in arguing your case.

    On a side note, from my own particular area, the distinction that you invoke in your article between acronyms and “initialisms” is to my mind null. It is the type of unlettered and officious affectation that one finds among the internetati (of which you are easily well above).

    The affected distinction is between initials that one can pronounce and others that one can not. But this alleged categorisation collapses immediately. Many so-called ‘initialisms’ are perfectly pronouncible in principle (U.S.A., I.R.A, A.T.M, etc.) and many ancroymns are less prouncible than so-called initialisms (Ph.D. = “P’hud” RRSP = “Risps”, etc.)

    So, (1.) the difference between the two alleged types is entirely arbitrary; (2.) there is nothing in the etymology of the word ‘acronym’ to enforce pronouncibilty; (3.) in any case, there is already a perfectly serviceable word for mere initials, and that word is …. “initials”!

    Again, my respects for your illuminating hockey punditry here.

    • VH, that distinction was just to ad some levity to the piece, and largely a joke. Hence the link to a skit by Penn & Teller.

      However if I’m not mistaken, the difference between an acronym and an initialism is just that one is read as a word and one is read as a series of letters.

      Seriousfan09 has started a Movember team named McPhee’s Irregulars. Donate to him, or me or the team to raise money for a great cause!

  3. twilighthours says:

    People choose to spend their time as they wish. I my opinion, folks like the fine AB would learn a lot more about hockey by going down to the local rink and watching some junior A or midget. Better yet, volunteer to coach a team. You’d learn more about hokey in one month of coaching than 1 year of pouring over data. But that’s AB’s thing and he is good at it.

  4. ed lopaz says:

    there was a time that I can remember when what Lucic did to Miller would have triggered an all out BENCH CLEARING BRAWL.

    Lucic would have been attacked, maybe even by more than 1 Sabre, and especially by the Sabres toughest fighter.

    the league brought in harsh rules to stop bench clearing brawls.

    (by the way, everyone in the crowd that I could see, absolutely went crazy and loved the brawls)

    now, the league needs to figure out how to stop guys like Lucic and Chara.

    its as if guns have been outlawed and only the gangs are left armed to the teeth with automatic weapons.

    in Boston, they STILL LOVE THIS STUFF.

    They eat it up.

    In New York and Philly and many other cities, what Lucic did would have been cheered, with a standing ovation for his skate to the penalty box.

    honestly, I stopped giving the NHL my money 2 years ago.

    I still watch the games, but I will NOT support this B.S. league.

    It would be cool if Lemieux and Gretzky could take their rightful positions at the highest levels of the NHL bureaucracy, and bring some respectability back to this piece of crap league.

    The men running the NHL are not worthy of our respect.

  5. How good are the Habs really? Can Toronto maintain their position? Is Detroit going to struggle all year? Read about how advanced statistics can predict the answer to these questions, along with a primer to understand what each stat means and why it’s important.

    Seriousfan09 has started a Movember team named McPhee’s Irregulars. Donate to him, or me or the team to raise money for a great cause!

    • shiram says:

      Those are quite interesting, I gotta thank whomever put so much work into this, and it certainly paints a brighter picture than the Division rankings do.
      They do give a good idea of some of the things happening on the ice, but I still feel as though they do not give a perfect picture of what a team does.
      Still a good improvement over what stats are usually posted on say

      Randy for HC!

      • The stats are compiled (by me) from each team’s page on The graph was compiled by Canucks blogger Cam Charron.

        As you say, nothing will give a perfect picture, but as far as stats go in hockey, these are the best way to predict future success that we’ve been able to quantify.

        Seriousfan09 has started a Movember team named McPhee’s Irregulars. Donate to him, or me or the team to raise money for a great cause!

        • shiram says:

          That’s the one bit that annoys me, that predict the future thing. I could be wrong, but I feel that no tool can accurately predict the future, or future success of a team.
          The numbers are a measure of how a team has played, it does not determine that they will keep playing that way.

          • Mattyleg says:

            You say one more thing against my magic 8-Ball, and IT’S ON!!!

            —Hope Springs Eternal—

          • Over the last decade, puck possession has been very consistent on a single season level. Even after only 15 games, it’s fairly simple to see which teams are good and which aren’t. That will hold out through the season.

            Seriousfan09 has started a Movember team named McPhee’s Irregulars. Donate to him, or me or the team to raise money for a great cause!

          • shiram says:

            Well let me put it this way, I’m glad the numbers show the Habs should improve, and I think they will improve in the standings, but I would not bet the house on it.

            Randy for HC!

          • I would hope you wouldn’t bet your house on anything. And like any situation, there can be bumps in the road. Subban and Price could go down tonight and then everything falls by the wayside.

            Seriousfan09 has started a Movember team named McPhee’s Irregulars. Donate to him, or me or the team to raise money for a great cause!

    • mrhabby says:

      my god who has time to put this together.

    • habsnyc says:

      No need for advanced stats. Compare TO’s goal differential to Boston’s and you realize the standings are not accurately reflecting their respective talent levels.

      Corsi is a useful management tool for calculating the value of a player relative to their salary, especially when a team can choose between several similar players. But for the pupose of predicting how a team does in the standings, I think it is easier to just divide the roster into three buckets – young players who are getting better, prime players who are maintaining and older players who are declining. Teams contend when they have better than average young players who are at or near peak talent.

      I like Corsi for talent evaluation and contract benchmarking but I don’t like most of these advanced stats for predicting overall team standings.

      Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

  6. SeriousFan09 says:

    Hal Gill out of action tonight, ill according to reports.

    Buffalo is scratching Tyler Myers.

    – I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
    SF09 on Twitter

  7. Bripro says:

    Dave Stubbs forgot to post the following regarding Lucic’s hit on Miller:

    69.4 Contact Outside the Goal Crease – If an attacking player initiates any contact with a goalkeeper, other than incidental contact, while the goalkeeper is outside his goal crease, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.
    A goalkeeper is not “fair game” just because he is outside the goal crease. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an attacking player makes unnecessary contact with the goalkeeper. However, incidental contact will be permitted when the goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such unnecessary contact.
    When a goalkeeper has played the puck outside of his crease and is then prevented from returning to his crease area due to the deliberate actions of an attacking player, such player may be penalized for goalkeeper interference. Similarly, the goalkeeper may be penalized, if by his actions outside of his crease he deliberately interferes with an attacking player who is attempting to play the puck or an opponent.

    It’s pretty black and white. If Shanahan doesn’t suspend Lucic, then Daddy Campbell is still sticking his nose in it.

  8. edgar_falcon says:

    any news on cammy and ak’s and even whites injuries?

    “Don’t get me wrong, I have all the respect in the world for them. They have good players and they’re good at what they do. But playing against them is so boring. They should have to pay for coffee for our fans to help them stay awake.” Higgins (I’m paraphrasing), on the NJ Devils.

  9. JD_ says:

    Lots of talkin’ heads on the radio this mornin’ while waitin’ at the Orange Julep to pick up four scalps for Carolina on Wednesday – at face value, go figure – and can’t help but notice the perpetual invocation of the rationale that goalies outside their crease are “fair game”.

    Francois Gagnon went on almost incessantly about it and then suggested supplementary discipline was nonsense.

    Ok. Fair enough. Let me check the Intraternetwebz.

    Excerpt from Rule 69.4: “A goalkeeper is not ‘fair game’ just because he is outside the goal crease. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an attacking player makes unnecessary contact with the goalkeeper. However, incidental contact will be permitted when the goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such unnecessary contact.”

    The goalie is not, in fact, “fair game”. The mouthbreather’s contact was unnecessary and, if one wants to buy his BS line that it was incidental, I see no evidence of any reasonable effort to avoid contact.

    Forget the fact the bonehead conceded his team would not have accepted that type of behaviour from the opposition.

    Excerpt from Rule 69.7: “An attacking player who, in the judgment of the Referee, initiates contact with the goalkeeper, whether inside or outside the crease, in a fashion that would otherwise warrant a penalty, will be assessed an appropriate penalty (minor or major and/or game misconduct) and will be subject to additional sanctions as appropriate pursuant to Rule 28 – Supplementary Discipline.”

    What is a guy’s excuse for gettin’ on the horn this mornin’, and ramblin’ on about his objections to the whole thing, when it flies directly in the face of the NHL Rulebook, almost to a tee?

    And Gagnon – and others – gets paid for this? Really?

    Back in the day, if I’d been this sloppy about my job, I’d hate to ponder the consequences.

    • Mats Naslund says:

      Post of the day. Well done. It always amazes me how ignorant some hockey people are of the rules. Its only y’now… their job.

    • Sal says:

      Says it all…

      Sal from the Hammer

    • Mattyleg says:

      That really surprises me.
      Gagnon is one of the VERY few hockey writers whose judgement and commentary I respect.
      I’ve never had an issue with him before, but this seems a bit off-target for sure.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • SeriousFan09 says:

      That’s the news media for you, research gets in the way of sensationalism.

      – I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
      SF09 on Twitter

    • J_P says:

      Great post as always.

      The only thing is Gagnon is usually pretty good, I never really have issues with what he says. He does appear to have dropped the ball on this most recent commentary. Were all human, it does happen from time to time. I find especially for people who have been doing their job for a long time, they take for granted the fact that they should probably check their facts before speaking.

      • JD_ says:

        Which is what I assumed.

        I don’t have any real problem with Gagnon, other than the fact he always waits too long to get his hair cut, and his head ends up lookin’ like the back end of a leperous rat for a couple of weeks.

        But, there is a tendency to fall back on preconceived notions on a Monday mornin’ cause Sunday night is no time to be workin’.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Nice job putting that together JD.

  10. DearyLeary says:

    All due respect to Ladouceur, but to say that Desharnais was our third best player last week is a joke (really our second best behind PK because Budaj only played one game).

    Take those rose-coloured franco-glasses off.

  11. Mattyleg says:

    Mornin’ all,
    Here’s a question for you: do you think that if someone had stepped up and laid a beating on Lucic, that he would never do something like that again?
    Or Zac Rinaldo last night, hammering the Florida player, then getting beat up after his penalty expired. Do you think that made Rinaldo think: “Hmm, that fight really put my manner of play into perspective. Perhaps I should be more temperate in my approach to body-checking in the future. Thank you, Matt Bradley, for teaching me such a valuable (yet fearsome!) message with your fists.”

    I’m not condoning ‘soft’ play, but I question the necessity of the on-ice ‘enforcer’ who can’t really enforce anything.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • Jordio-oh says:

      Every answer to this question is going to be pure speculation. I don’t think Lucic would be deterred in the future, nor any other player of a similar mentality. Their game is based on that type of play and I can’t imagine it would change based on one beat-down.

      From an irrational fanatical standpoint, I would love to see a player teach Lucic a lesson. But from a rational, objective standpoint, most players who commit such acts that require a lesson in punishment won’t be deterred from doing it in the future. Cheapshot artists are always going to be cheapshot artists.

      • Mattyleg says:

        That’s my sad conclusion too.
        And it’s at this point that the NHL SHOULD step in; when people say yeah, it sucks, but whaddayagonnado?
        That’s what they said about the hooking and clinging, and that got dealt with.

        What I’d love to see, which I won’t, but it’s nice to dream, is Shanahan say: “Lucie, you’re a dirty player. You play like a gutless sack of sh!t. Here’s a massive suspension.”

        Problem is, lawyers seem to have taken over the league, and as we saw with Chara, there’s some sort of requirement for ‘previous offences’ or whatever.

        I’d like to see the NHL management grow some balls and call the game like the rest of us see it.

        —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • Sal says:

        Not to mention his repeated sucker punching!! He gets away with more sucker punches, than anybody I’ve ever seen! Should have been suspended at least three times in last years playoffs. Even Horton does it on a regular basis. It’s a bloody epedemic on that team!

        Sal from the Hammer

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Clearly Capital Punishment is the answer to finally end the Violence!

  12. habrez says:

    Markov practicing.

  13. DEANDALLEY says:

    If Juicy Lucy would have done that to Carey Price, Carey Price would have dropped the gloves & went after him himself!

    “If your not first, your last”

  14. Vladdy Mondavi says:

    A couple weeks ago, after the Habs’ horrid start, I divided their schedule into 8-game stretches (approximately 1/10 of the season) and determined they needed to get at least 10 points every 8 games to have a fighting chance of getting onto the guest list for the playoff party.
    I proposed this just before their loss to the Panthers (the Habs’ eighth game of the season). I said I wouldn’t panic about this season until after their game in Nashville. Well, since the Florida game vos Canadiens de Montreal have gone 6-2-0. Back on track.
    Another stretch like that will do just fine, thank-you very much.
    Looking ahead at their 8-game schedule they play: BUF, CAR (x2), NYI, NYR, BOO, PHI, PIT. A very important stretch, as an argument could be made that 3 or 4 teams they play against could be the same teams jockeying for the 7 thru 10 seeds come the beginning of April.
    Let’s go boys, add another 10-12 pts in the standings in the next 2 weeks.

    Opinions are like kittens, I’m giving them away.

  15. Ian Cobb says:

    130 of us from all over North America this year.

    5TH ANNUAL 2011 HIO HAB FAN SUMMIT NOV. 18,19 & 20.
    We will all meet and greet at Hurley’s pub Friday eve. Some of us will be having supper there, and name tags will be given as we watch the Hamilton Bull Dogs on big screen.
    Everyone is welcome to join us. Ware you team colors! and enjoy the evening.

    Saturday morning, breakfast is at Chez Cora’s at 8 or 8:30am. Mike Boone and other guests will be joining us. You can order a la cart and everyone gets 15% discount off your bill.

    We then walk over to the Bell Center for the Hall of Fame Tour for 10:30am and the Bell Center Tour is at 11:30am. You need to purchase a $5:50 ticket for the Bell Center tour.

    After the tours there will be a Media and Fan professional presentation put on by former concussed hockey players. Kerry Goulet, Keith Primeau and other players who are Involved in educating the effects of concussion, depression and neurology rehabilitation.
    (location is the Novotel hotel, just up the street)

    At 3pm the Children’s Foundation Charity raffle and pre game dinner at the Baton Rouge restaurant. bring one item each if possible please, so everyone can win a gift to go home with.

    Rejean Houle will join us at the dinner with a Canadiens team signed stick for the raffle.

    Then we walk across the street to the Hab’s and Ranger’s game.
    After the game the 2nd floor of Hurley’s pub is reserved for us again, to celibrate the win. Anyone may join us, just identify yourself as a HIO member.

    Please be generous with your charity raffle gifts and your purchase of raffle tickets. It is a way for the HIO community to give back to less fortunate kids.

    Enjoy talking hockey and meeting your wonderful HIO family.
    See ya there.
    Ian Cobb
    HIO Fan Summit Organizer (613-968-9807) if you need anything.

  16. Chris says:

    The most maddening thing about hockey, the sport I love the most, is the culture of violence that permeates the game, as if it is an integral part of the game and we should just turn a blind eye.

    What Milan Lucic did the other night to Miller was 100% bush league. I don’t mind contact on the goalies when they are out playing the puck, but I do mind a huge player like Lucic loading up and aiming high on the hit. Most NHL players hit to hurt these days, and this is just another example. One of my frequent suggestions has been to assess a penalty to any player who initiates a bodycheck on a player if his stick blade is not on the ice.

    The point of hitting should be to get the puck. You can’t do that if your stick is in the air. Furthermore, you can’t lift your arms and target the head if you are forced to keep your stick on the ice. I suspect that such a change would dramatically reduce the number of injuries off checks, especially shoulder and head injuries, as players are forced to adapt a more technically sound checking approach.

    But the other point of this rant is the fans and the media crap that has been spewed since this incident. The Sabres are being villified for “turtling” when their star player gets hurt. When has the solution to bullying EVER been to fight back? When did that ever work?

    It was the same crap when Laraque was signed. Everybody was going on about how he would change the way teams took advantage of Montreal’s star players, but that hasn’t been the role of a goon in the NHL in decades. The fighters fight one another…players like Boogaard, Laraque and even Domi did not generally fight non-fighters. People wanted Laraque to go out and attack people like Lucic without fair warning to help “police” the game. Yet many of those same people continue to villify Todd Bertuzzi for doing exactly that in retaliation for an illegal and dirty hit to the head of Markus Naslund, Vancouver’s best player in a previous game. He attacked Steve Moore when Moore made it clear he wasn’t going to fight Bertuzzi, and in the process broke his neck and ended his hockey career.

    Is that what the people in the media and the stands want with Milan Lucic? That somebody like Patrick Kaleta go in and jump Lucic? Or perhaps in the next game, they should send Gaustad out to jump him? And in the unlikely but still possible event that such an action might seriously injure Lucic, how would those people calling for “frontier justice” react? They would crucify the Sabres player for his actions not befitting the noble sport of hockey. What a load of hypocritical “excrement” that will be.

    The funniest comment on here has to be “Larry Robinson would never have tolerated this”. I just finished re-reading Ken Dryden’s “The Game”, and a prominent part of that book was that Robinson was playfully mocked all the time by his teammates for NOT fighting, for going up whenever one of the opponents took liberties with his teammates and wagging his big finger in their face and talking about how angry it made him, i.e., for doing exactly what the Buffalo Sabres’ quintet of players are now being crucified for doing.

    The league has a responsibility to address this issue. I hope that Shanahan does the right thing, because then we can see all this neandrethal tripe being thrown around on various hockey forums disappear.

    The reality is that even attacking Lucic wouldn’t have changed anything. He’s a classless piece of crap that has demonstrated throughout his career that he has little regard for his fellow players. That isn’t going to change by some player going up and fighting him. Miller would still be concussed, and Lucic would laugh off the “old-time hockey” after the game and do it again in another 5-10 games. That is simply who Lucic is.

    I find it depressingly sad that in all aspects of life, we eschew vigilante justice and teach people to be the better person. Only in the sport of hockey do we embrace the same base mentality that allowed something like the Roman gladiator battles to exist.

    • Lafrich says:

      From my thoughts to your keyboard. Perfectly written. Thanks.

    • DearyLeary says:

      There should be a ‘point finale’ at the end of this. This should be the end of the discussion. Frustrating that it isn’t.

    • Sal says:

      Agreed, well said. There won’t be a need for frontier justice if Shanahan does his job…isn’t that the whole point? I for one, based on past practice, and, the fact that he answers to Campbell, do not like the chances that anything significant will result from Lucy’s actions.

      Sal from the Hammer

    • J_P says:

      Great post.

      This is where we are going to see who the real brendan shanahan is. If he doesnt give lucic a nice suspension, he just confirms that he is as big of a joke as campbell was.

  17. SeriousFan09 says:

    Habs have won six of their last eight games. Despite all the complaints they are turning the season around. Can they move on up tonight?

    Two points puts Montreal in the middle of the league rankings. Still early in the year, rolling through November could put the team back in the Division race. Markov back to skating with the team, maybe he gives the team the right ‘boost’ when he returns in what would likely be December to help avert their usual nasty December road trip.

    – I shall always remember Captain Koivu. Habs and Hockey.
    SF09 on Twitter

    • J_P says:

      DEfinitely nice to see that we arent getting brutally outshot this season as we have in previous years. I still find the games extremely boring, and frankly I dont think you are controlling your own desinty when you are constantly playing 1 goal games. 1 goal games get dangerous because all it takes is a couple of bad bounces to swing the game in the other direction. That being said, we are improving our record, and markov should definitely provide us a huge boost, especially on the PP. Improving our PP will go a long way in improving our overall play.

      Can’t wait to get Markov back quaterbacking the PP so that pleks can get back to his natural spot on the half boards.


    am i insanely biased or is the thought of cujo in the HOF making me vomit warranted?

  19. Castor says:

    Markov practicing with team!! (In a no contact jersey but still!)

  20. montreal ace says:

    I dont see why the Habs and Sabres would try to even up scores with the Bruins by fighting each other, seems to me they have something in common. Lucic will get a suspension, but the reason will be Buttmans puppets will want to make the new owner of the Sabres and their fans happy. In principle this is the same reason Jacobs and the Bruins fans did not receive one last year for Chara ,Buttman wanted Jacobs and the Bruins fans happy. In the Habs case Buttman and his National Hustlers League are the not worried about perception of the fans, we are just cash cows for him. I really dont think of the Bruins as a tuff team, they are a just a dirty team with a carte blanche, and bully boys who have no shame in using it.

  21. filincal says:

    Miller should have pulled a Hextall/Chelios on Lucic. Did anyone see his “retaliation” later in the game? If Ryan seen that his team-mates didn’t do anything he should have did it himself. Instead of that wimpy push on Lucic when he was in front of the crease should have been a crosscheck at his skull. It would have merited a suspension, but would have made Shannahan think a little harder about Lucic’s unwarranted hit.
    The fact that the league no longer does anything to protect players that are vulnerable only confirms what “real hockey people” said when the instigator rule was instilled. “there’s going to be a lot more stick work and cheap shots”.
    The NHL’s lack of foresight is amazing…so many of the new rules have lead us to this mockery we used to love.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Miller took a full swing at Lucic with his stick but missed.

    • Chris says:

      Right. Because the Broad Street Bullies were held back by the lack of an instigator rule.

      “Real hockey people” are full of crap. The only way to police the game is to penalize the teams for their actions: severe team fines and long suspensions are a far greater deterrent than a goon going out and jumping somebody.

  22. --Habs-- says:

    Hope we’re not all expecting too much from Markov when when/if he gets back. He hasn’t played in 2 years and it may take him 1/2 a season to get the head back into it.

  23. Ian Cobb says:

    Sorry The link would not show!! Delete

  24. habs03 says:

    Looking back at all the games this season, its funny but, If Markov was health we would most likely be 10-4-2.

    The PP has cost us 3 games IMO, game 1 vs the Leafs, and games vs the Panthers and Oilers.

  25. mrhabby says:

    what would all the habs fans be saying if Moen or some one else ran Miller like lucic did..just playing devils advocate here.

  26. HabinBurlington says:

    While I believe Lucic should get a suspension of approx. 4-5 games, I doubt he will get one. But an interesting point worth discussing is the blatant stick swing by Miller intended to hit Lucic. Miller is very fortunate that stick did not connect and especially lucky it didn’t catch Lucic in the head area or he may be facing a 20+ game suspension. I am curious if Shanahan will point to this play as a negative on Miller and in some twisted way absolve Lucic of punishment.

  27. twilighthours says:

    If Lucy gets suspended then I feel his comments will play a role – he basically said “we don’t care what the officials or NHL management might do, we would mete out frontier justice to anybody who did that to us.” the NHL has – in the past – looked down on vigilante tactics. Just to diffuse any future garbage, they might suspend Lucy. Personally, it’s a garbage play but probably only deserves 1-2 games.

    • SmartDog says:

      I was thinking that too.
      And rightly so. The NHL needs to show that excuse-making is see-through and that taunting and bullying in the wake of a dangerous hit are as easily (and importantly) punished as the hit itself. Lucy should get 4-5 games for the hit and another 5 for his comments and to send a message to the Bruins (and others) and the “style of play” Lucic crowed about.

      Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • Chuck says:

      What it comes down to, in addition to his comments, is that the “collision” (as everyone in the the Boston media refers to it, as if to make it seem like some poor, unfortunate accident) was completely avoidable. Miller had separated himself from the puck, and Lucic chose to hit a defenseless Miller at full speed instead of letting up pursuing the puck.

      As such, the charging call was warranted. But the way that he hit Miller, arms raised at the head, shows an intent to injure. For that, he should be suspended.

  28. shiram says:

    Lucic, well I hate the guy, and he gave me a reason more to hate him.
    Would someone stepping up and trying to pound on Lucic really change anything, I don’t think so.
    Bruins are used to getting their ways with their physical “play”. Besides, Lucic was pounded on before, and he has not changed his game.

    The onus is on the League, it’s ref and the NHLPA, as long as they pussy-foot around, players will get concussed for no good reasons.

    Randy for HC!

  29. Ian Cobb says:

    After selecting our Hab’s to win our division this year, because we have great depth and better young talent than we have had in many years in Montreal. I find myself having the most negative season just watching my team play each night.

    I did not enjoy the way our team prepared to play the pre season and even less the way they came to play most nights in the regular season.

    I enjoy and love this game so very much, but I am scratching my head in frustration. This is a very good team we have, and we are playing as a bottom feeding club. We can not win a hockey game going away. Any we win, we just squeak out the two points, while giving up one to the opposition or just hang on.

    No, I do not see us winning our division this year now. I even think we are going to struggle to get a play off spot. It is terrible to feel so negative while watching my favorite team.

    The only positive feelings that I have about our game is our ability to kill penalties. We are the best in the league. But that’s it!

    I can only come up with one reason for this poor play, and I have been very criticle of late. But what else could it be other than the way players are used and communicated with by the coaching staff.?

    This is a game!, for all to enjoy, both fans and players, but I do not see our players having much fun out there. And that is the main reason I am not enjoying the game as much this year.

    But win or lose, I’ll be watching and hoping for something to change each night.

    • Chuck says:

      Ian, maybe the solution is for the Habs to play short-handed all night!

    • mrhabby says:

      what would all the habs fans be saying if Moen or some one else ran Miller like lucic did..just playing devils advocate here.

      ps..should have put this comment up top not under ian

    • mrhabby says:

      hey ian..could you post the summit itenerary 1 last time.

    • habsnyc says:

      depth? the bottom half of the roster is devoid of experienced or NHL level talent.
      i expected the team to have more points than 09 and as many or less points than 010 because of the aging of the top half of the roster gionta can’t keep scoring 30 goals at his age. i think they are doing fantastic given their injuries and lack of depth. once markov returns, they will move back up the standings to their customary 6th-8th place.

      it is riduculous to stop enjoying the team because they fail to meet non consensus, arbitrary standards you set for them. JM is actually doing a mediocre to almost decent job given the lack of talent on this team.

      I will be psyched if Price, Pax and Suban have great years. They are the future of this team. The rest of the roster won’t be with the team by the time Montreal contends.

      Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

  30. WindsorHab-10 says:

    If Luc(shit) doesn’t get minimum 3 game suspension, then the Gooins definitely have the league officials in their back pockets. That guy is a complete disgrace to hockey & the league’s lack of discipline against Boston is the reason they won the cup.
    Dirtiest team in the league no doubt.

    “Hate Bruins like a sickness”

  31. Chuck says:

    A view from the other side, witch some of that excellent, obviously unbiased reporting from over at NESN:

    Bruins goalie Tim Thomas expected the Sabres to possibly run him in retaliation, but that never happened either.

    “I didn’t know if there would be a kind of retribution hit. That’s kind of the old school way.”

    But the Sabres are a new school type of team. They tucked their tails between their legs and let themselves be run out of the building.

    That’s certainly not the way the Bruins would have responded… the Bruins have been the aggressors on most occasions, and are always willing to stand up for one another if another team crosses the line with one of their own.

    “Definitely,” Lucic said when asked if the response would have been different if Thomas had been hit like that. “We wouldn’t accept anything like that. We would have taken care of business, but we’re a different team than they are.”

    And as the scoreboard showed on Saturday night, not to mention the new Stanley Cup banner flying up in the rafters alongside it, the Bruins are a much better team than the Sabres.

  32. Neutral says:

    Shanahan – if you have a hard time figuring out what to give Lucic- Ill help ya- 15 games for attemp to injure – maybe this guy will finally get the message.

  33. dhenry1234 says:

    My Take on the Whole Miller situation:

    Miller jumped out of the net to get the puck with Lucic not 4 feet away going full speed. What did Miller expect to happen? Take Lucic out and put Cole in and everyone on this board would say it was an unfortunate hockey play.

    • 123456 says:

      you have to attempt to avoid the goalie – thats the rule. lucy violated the rule and an injury resulted.

      personally i do not think he needs to be suspended but if he is i’d say 2 games. i do not think thewre was intent to injure – just intent to hit a goalie.

      in the very least the NHL will pay more attention to goalie contact bc price get hits at least once a game.

      ps – recall gionta hit a goalie that resulted in a concussion.

      • SmartDog says:

        You’re kidding me. That’s like comparing a fender bender in a parking lot to a head-on collision on the highway.

        Gionta wasn’t moving with near the speed, he does try to squeeze between the goalie and the defenseman, but also had his back to the goalie who comes out as Gionta was skating across. It’s an unfortunate result that Reimer got injured – and I mean that sincerely – but the situation, intent, possibility of avoidance, and even attitude towards the hit couldn’t have been more different.

        Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • HabinBurlington says:

      That’s a great point, because if you put Cole in that situation instead of Lucic there is no contact with the goalie. Thanks for pointing out what we are all saying, Lucic is a dirty player.

      Edit: Should have stated what I am saying, not we are saying, I cannot nor should I speak for others here.

    • SmartDog says:

      Lucic was “not 4 feet away”. WTF? Yeah, until he was “not 3 feet away” and then “not 2 feet”. Before that though, he was about 20 feet, at which point it was obvious he was in a losing race for the puck against a guy with pads on.

      Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  34. --Habs-- says:

    Well I’m barred from TSN again! Guess they didn’t like me calling Lucic Brain Dead.

  35. SmartDog says:

    The best thing for hockey would be if Shanahan suspends Lucy for at least 10 games. Repeat offender, blatant (and successful) attempt to injure a vulnerable player, unsportsmanlike attitude to the whole thing. I don’t mind goalies out of their crease getting bumped, but a guy in Millers position with pads on, standing still has NO mobility, and Lucic could’ve side-stepped him.

    The SECOND best thing for hockey (because we know Shanahan won’t do that, protection of the Bruins is grandfathered), is that Gaustad is now watching clips of Lucic fights to see how to knock him into next week.

    At some point, morons like Lucic have to be made to pay and seriously or this crap is gonna just keep going. Could the Bruins have won the cup without injuring a lot of guys with dangerous hits along the way? Not a chance. Does the NHL care? Same answer.

    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  36. Bash says:

    It’s just too much isn’t it?

    A thug runs a goalie and gloats that there was no response fro the other team. Perhaps worse he suggests that the collision was unavoidable and practically grins as he says it.

    Last year the Bruins learned that they can do pretty much what they want and it won them a cup!

    It will be at least interesting to see what Shanahan does this time.

    I suspect that this will a defining moment. If the league does not suspend the precedent is daunting…open season on goalies. And there are enough idiots in the league to take a shot.

    Maybe Carey Price is next!

    Go get him Scott…

    “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” (anon)

  37. Sal says:

    I believe Campbell, is still Shanahan’s boss. We’ll see where this goes. The NHL Bush league, does not want to take this type of hit out of the game, if it wants to make headway in the US. The NHL stopped caring a long time ago about what Canadians, who love this game like no other, say/think about their decisions…

    Sal from the Hammer

  38. Tony McLean says:

    That’s more than a bit rich, a draft dodger like Todd talking about Omaha beach.

  39. Tony McLean says:

    Lucic should have his head checked.

    If it wasn’t for St. Patrick the Canadiens would be Leafs East.

  40. habsnyc says:

    There is no point to debate the Lucic hit. Shanahan will settle it in a few hours. I stopped reading Stubbs’ column on the hit after he called his tv peers “lunkheads.”

    The team that comes out looking best in this affair is the Islanders. They are a young, talented team that will not make the playoffs, but they stand up for each other on the ice in a way that Monrtreal and Buffalo have forgotten to do.

    This incident should put a stop to those who write that Boston is only 1″ taller and 4 lbs heavier on average than Montreal or Buffalo so size is not a problem. Once Boston has three heavyweights, and Montreal has none, it does not matter that Montreal has more bantam weights than them. The statistic that matters is the size of the top three aggressive players on each team.

    If Montreal can continue to play .500 or better with an injury decimated roster, they should have no problem moving up the standings when Markov et al return. This team is doing very well given the number of inexperienced players that skate each night.

    Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.

  41. Ian Cobb says:

    The NHL is as gutless as Lucic is a piece of excrement.

    Contact to the head is deadly, let alone Lucic hitting a stopped goal tender at full speed. Shannahan better come through properly or else his credibility in his position is done!

  42. Thomas Le Fan says:

    I’ll give the Sabres the benefit of the doubt for not going all Ahnold on Lucic. Let’s see what Shanahan does. If the NHL brass are actually trying to change the game, Lucic needs a long suspension or else teams will return to bench clearing brawls and attacks a la Bertuzzi to enact revenge for boneheaded cheap shots of that nature. Lucic is an evil twit. I hope the Sabres don’t take it out on us.

    Go Habs

  43. Neutral says:

    it will be a good game tonight – miller or no miller – they’re a little better up front than we are – so it’s up to us to shut them down and we have the team that can do it – depends on which team shows up. the workers or floaters.

  44. Peter Young says:

    A very cheap shot, obviously deliberate and obviously avoidable, and very dangerous, too. That’s all that can reasonably be said about it. But the gutless NHL will do nothing beyond, perhaps, a slap on the wrist for this blatant effort to injure an opposing player.

    The NHL still has not gotten serious about outlawing gratuitous violence that at best changes the nature and perhaps the outcome of the contest and at worst puts players’ careers and even lives at risk. In levying discipline against Lucic, the NHL also ought to consider his attitude towards his thuggery, his smug smile as he skated to the penalty box and his lies about what happened. The league needs to put some ooomph behind its words. Until it does, this kind of violence by thugs like Lucic will continue unchecked.

  45. bigjames says:

    no one hates the bruins more than me. so lets please get the boys to focus on skating around their punk asses every time we play them and fill their net with pucks.

    i was listening to the habs preds game and even rds was saying that pk suban is one of the most hated oponents in the east. really? why not lucic? why not chara? why not ference? etc etc. hey i even hate pou pou now!

    these guys are an insult to hockey and we need to handle them like habs teams from the past: smoke them!!

    GO HABS GO!!

  46. caladin says:

    I think this is the real test for Shanahan. Does Boston have a free pass again this year? You better believe they’re paying attention. If they get away with this then they will step it up a notch.
    This kind of blatant corruption can kill a league.

  47. habstrinifan says:

    Straight out of the horse’s mouth.

    Max Pac on his goal and the part Subban had to play in it.

    “It was awesome,” Pacioretty said. “We’re playing 4-on-4. He could have played passive and let them get the puck off a rebound, but he stepped up and made a great play.”

    I need NO MORE vindication of my many posts for the Canadien’s elite stars to be encouraged to inject the impromptu and aggressive and yes ‘risky’ flair buried in their individual souls and dying to swagger out on to the ice with gallant gladiatorial affirmation of freedom from a chained existence.

    I know that EVERYONE on this site respects and admires the courage and Everest like ambition to be great of Max Pacioretty. To stand out!

    I write this with the excitement of a mucker ready to grind and grunt assured that when I hear such words from a ‘star’ performer line Max Pac, I know that my flailing at the opponent distracts and harrys him sufficiently for my STAR, my swashbuckling epeeist, to deliver the rousing thrust which carries the battle.

    In simple words I stand and applaud these plays and players. I am not saying that a COACH, nor the FANS, should forgive lazy recklesness or incorrigibly foolish misadventures of carelessness.

    And our players, like Subban and Eller, are NOT lazy nor reckless nor foolish. They have that ingrained urge to be great and to do great things for THEIR TEAM!

    I believe that when players are given the freedom to play to engage ALL their SKILLS , one can demand and EXTRACT with more successs a greater RESPONSIBILITY from them. And that makes the team BETTER because the STARS are more engaged.

    That is my beef today. The increasing tendency of the fans and now the scribes to come down on our young ‘stars’ for wanting to do too much. And the over identification and punishment by their coach for their ‘errors of commission’.

    Thank you Max Pac! You allowed me to leave for work today energized and waiting for tonight’s game, hoping I see another dose of daring resulting in a beauteous moment like that you and Subban gave us.

    I wish I had seen a similar expression of enjoyment from our coach. And more heady “did you see that” exclamations from the fans here.

    Be forewarned though Mr Subban and Mr Max Pac, they lie in wait ready to pounce on your errors. For in HABSLAND reaching for the stars is no longer encouraged! We like the safety of mediocrity.

  48. habsfan reduxit says:

    Lucic says, “You know, we wouldn’t accept anything like that,” Lucic said. “We would have [taken] care of business.”

    … well excuse me, but it isn’t the role of the players to be their own police. That’s what referees are supposed to do. Now I know the stripes have fallen down on the job lately, and have done so with the permission of the Bettman crowd. But simply because the authorities won’t do the job is no reason for the citizens to take matters into their own hands.

    … that way leads to anarchy.

    “Whenever you have the puck, and don’t know what to do with it, put it in the net.” – Toe Blake

    • Ali says:

      Jacques, is that you?

      This is hockey, scores have always been settled on the ice and the threat of having to answer for a dirty hit yourself is part of the game. Not in a Bertuzzi-Moore way, but in the way Larry Robinson put the Flyers in their place when they tried to intimidate their way past us.

      • habsfan reduxit says:

        … so true, and it’s the biggest fault of the game. In no other professional team sport is the responsibility for policing the action and playing within the rules laid on the officials but taken up by the players themselves.

        … as great a game as hockey is, that is its Achilles heel, and the major reason why it has never been able to be universally accepted in the world’s sports communities, why there are thousands of hockey fans who love playing the game but find the pro game distasteful.

        “Whenever you have the puck, and don’t know what to do with it, put it in the net.” – Toe Blake

    • Tony McLean says:

      That’s Gandhi Gauthier and Mohandas Martin’s philosophy in a nutshell. Turn the other cheek and let the referees and the league protect you. How’s that working out?

      The 1975-76 Canadiens dispensed justice to the Phlyers and never looked back.
      If it wasn’t for St. Patrick the Canadiens would be Leafs East.

  49. 24 Cups says:

    Rule 42.1

    A poor call by the ref probably opens the door for Shanahan to rationalize the situation and give Lucic a slap on the wrist.

    • JF says:

      Steve – I think you’re right. Shanahan will argue that the hit has already been punished in accordance with the rule book. It will be judged a “hockey play,” even though the puck was long gone – as it was in the case of Chara’s hit on Pacioretty. At most, Lucic will get one game, but I don’t expect even that.

      • Neutral says:

        Forget about the 7.5 mil – as long as Gomez can help the team win – no matter what line he’s on – that’s what we wanna see you can complain all you want about him being paid 7.5 mil it’s not gonna change – we want him to help win games and that’s the bottom line – the other guys playing on his line – yes they make a whole lot less – that’s not Gomez fault. get over it.

  50. ths says:

    “You put a guy like (Scott) Gomez vs. (Mike) Blunden, and you have an experienced player with good speed”

    I’ve translated this into non “NumbNutz Coach” for those that dont have Google translate”
    “You pay a fourth line player 7.5 million more to float around a few times and slide the puck out to an opposing player vs paying a young big 4th liner 7.5 mill less to bang bodies and stick up for his teamates and skate straight to the net with his stick on the ice”

    Ooh Aah Habs on the war path

    • Tony McLean says:

      I really like Blunden but he can’t fight. Not that that shortcoming should preclude him from squashing guys with his 6’4″ 218# frame. And yeah he is a good skater. Infinitely preferable to having Nomez on the team.
      If it wasn’t for St. Patrick the Canadiens would be Leafs East.

  51. Lucic says the aftermath was a joke. He said his team would have taken care of business. Not only does he hurt Miller, then then laughs into the face of the entire Buffalo team.

    Just like our team. I haven’t seen retribution from the Chara hit.

    Boo him all you want fans, but he got away with it.

    I’m going to be in for the Boston game next Monday. I’ll be disappointed if there isn’t one Bruin on the ice bleeding like the pigs they are….oh but it was an accident of course.

    Shane Oliver
    Brandon, MB,Canada
    R7B 2R7
    Ph- 204 724 8418

  52. 24 Cups says:

    The Lucic/Miller incident will be the true litmus test for Shanahan and the NHL. The hit was a clear black and white situation. There is no circumstance that can be up for debate or interpretation. Not to mention that Lucic is a repeat offender. A ten game suspension would be a definitive statement that the league means business about cleaning up the game.

    I think fighting is a waste of time and detracts from the sport. However, there are times when a team must answer back. Especially when a goalie gets run as badly as Miller was. Gaustad, Pominville, Vanek, Myers and Sekera were on the ice for Buffalo when the headhunting occurred. The guys who were 6’4″ and 6’8″ did not respond. Same goes for the team’s captain and assistant captain who were on the ice at the time. Miller said that Lucic was a piece of shit. I say that these five guys are cowards.

    Who would have responded for Montreal? That’s hard to say but I would venture that only Subban or MaxPac might answer the call. Cole has only been here for a very short time so it’s hard to know what he would do.

    This much I know to be true. If that was Price instead of Miller, our season would be over if the concussion that occurred was long-term.

    It’s really becoming more difficult to come here to this site and cheer for my team when the league allows this type of blatant behaviour to go on. The people who run the NHL (Bettman, Shanahan, GM’s) are just as gutless as the five Sabres who were on the ice last night.

    For the love of the game? Not today.

    • Tony McLean says:

      Budaj might surprise you. Sham-a-ham too, he started okay before the GMs slapped him down and or he co-opted himself. The fact Luchicken has a hearing indicates there will be a suspension, we’ll see. I say it should be minimum five games.
      If it wasn’t for St. Patrick the Canadiens would be Leafs East.

  53. CanadienBoy says:

    Ladouceur’s report is dead on ,DD improving to 83% in face off is impressing for a small guy and of course Gomez give aways on the power play is tiring

  54. adamkennelly says:

    the sad part is – the Sabres could prolly do the same thing to the Habs with no response…anyone thinks Diaz or Weber could or would do a damn thing about a hit like that on Price. I bet Buffalo makes it a tough night for the Habs….if anyone on any team ran Thomas like that – it would be a very very long night for any skilled players on that team…the way it should be.

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