You are here: Home » News » Bounce-back game for P.K.?
A healthy scratch for the Canadiens’ pre-Christmas loss in Winnipeg, P.K. Subban is likely to return to the lineup Tuesday night in Ottawa.
• Dave Stubbs on Subban
• Cunneyworth keen to get first W
• The surprising Senators
• Gallagher scores in Juniors’ win
I was one of the few who prolly thought JW wasnt going to get canned.. when he did i was surprised.. i wasnt for or against but the results leaned me to that i agreed.. now the problem is it didnt work like planned.. why? we have JM 2.0 in the lineup.. half the fanbase doesnt approve.. and half the media doesnt approve.. the players didnt give a hoot under JM.. the same system with a new voice changed nothing… PG choked by making a big splash without having a legit road map (unless that roadmap is tanking) in the end firing JM was the wrong move because it showed MTL’s inability to either create or follow through on a plan B.. personally i dont fdind PG responsible for the disaster on the ice.. i blame molson.. he is the boss… he decides who comes and goes by approviing of PG moves.. he came out caused a bigger poop storm referring to the coaching debacle after cunneyworth was hired Markovs knee injury and the total disregard for the fans (maybe even the players ).. after he came in charge it whent downhill for MTL… PG makes great moves (moore. wisniewski, Cole, Emelin,) the list goes on farther but the bottom line is that the team is in a perfect storm of thoughtlessness, half hearted efforts. thats how alot of the press conferences sound “i dont know where Markov is” i dont blame JM for that.. but JM boss… PG or molson… boo to the administration bvecause their lack of care for their customers trickled down to the product…
Go Habs Go
Call me crazy (I am not saying that might not be true) but I feel that we are going to get off to a good start tonight and win the 3. Anyone with me???
“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”–Matthew 24:14
And another thing-
Bring back real nicknames!
Toe, Rocket, Boom Boom, Big Bird, Coco,Sqid, Nucksie.
All the nicknames now are useless. No creativity. All they do is take the first syllable of the last name and add a “y” or “s”
Carbonneau was known as “Carbo”. Why not “Protein”? (opposite of Carb. Get it?)
“You have to be this tall to ride on this ride”
-as posted in amusement parks across North America
The old “Four Habs Fans” site had great nicknames for most of the guys. Here are the ones I remember off hand:
A Kostitsyn: Big tits
Subban: PFK (this doesn’t make sense, but go with it)
Weber: Swiss mister 2.0
gomex: the Mexican
Price TFS (the franchise savior)
There were a slew of others, most of them pretty funny.
In Price we Trust
Personally I prefer Gomer or Goober along with Canalloni and Pachagetti as a first line..
Molson (and Bob Gainey) must quickly decide when to release Gauthier of his position. The sooner the better so the team can adress a new course, because a new approach is needed.
It’s also annoying that the only coaches available in the poll all speak French. If it remains team policy to only hire a coach who can speak French that is there prerogative, but the fans should be able to choose who we would like regardless of the language issue.
At very least Cunnyworth should have been on the list
December 27, 2011 at 10:51 am
“You hate to see the team lose and it’s even more frustrating when you can’t help,” he said. “But by the same token, I can’t beat myself up over it. I didn’t have the opportunity to help the team.
“If you’re given the opportunity, then you can take that step forward. But until you’re given it, you can’t. It was taken away from me, so I had to sit there and kind of watch. That’s tough.”
Anyone else bothered by these comments?
I guess the 35 previous games was not enough of a chance? There is nothing wrong with a player being disappointed about sitting and even being vocal about it. But this sounds more like ‘it’s not my fault, it’s the coaches’ crap to me.
Instead of hearing ‘I’m pissed off but I will just have to try harder to give the coach what he wants’ it’s ‘I’m pissed off and how can I help the team if I am not given the opportunity.”
Thank you idle! And Billylove and Dano for touching on this audio clip. I came in this morning and listened to P.K’s. clip. I am a huge fan of his so I just threw my hands up in the ar and moved on.
I just couldnt take anymore of sourness coming from the HABS.
Discord Discord! I agree with you. The clip IS disturbing.
It sounded like , after his first interview, where HE WAS correctly concerned about his play, it sounded that he went home or called home and his buddies convinced him that he is great and should NOT have been benched. That he shouldnt have been embarassed like that.
To be fair his words were kinda ambiguous so I just didnt want to believe it.
I didnt like the part of Cunneyworth not having directly talked to him. Seems like deja vu with that kinda thing which hasnt worked in the past. And it started out like P.K was saying he was ’embarassed’ at being bench BECAUSE he had stunked but, you are right IDLE, it sure ened up sounding like he was passing the blame.
I hope we are reading it wrong. I am such in need of a dynamic home-grown talent to remind of the exciting type of players that this team was known for.
It is a shame if P.K turns out to be a selfish spoilt brat and if we cant hire people to guide and corrrect the attitudes of our prospects.
Larry Robinson anyone!?
Wil anything ever go right for this franchise again?
These kind of comments against one of the two high quality young players we have in our system, Price being the other one, I find very disturbing. We are going to lose them both if we do not get rid of this kind of thinking. Subban is young and frustrated. I remember how we lost Patrick Roy by pissing him off so badly he asked to be traded. I watched Gill be skated around like a pylon in the Winnipeg game. Two games in 48 hours!! Gill is an old man and there is no way his muscle recovery can be complete in that short a time. He should have been sat. Watching Gauthier operate brings back memories of Monsieur Ronald Corey. We need PK and we need Price and we really need a GM. Gauthier is obviously over his head as you can see with the panic deal for Kaberle.
I agree with you on everything. I dont think the coments were anti P.K. They were a fear that there is no one in the organization to ensure that our players like P.K ‘grow p well’.
montrealtilldeath, you are 100% correct. Couldn’t agree more.
Who do i complain to and boycott when i watch RDS interviews done by darche,leblanc and desharnais that do not have english subtitles like they do in french for interviews done by all the english speaking players? Do the anglo fans inside quebec and outside quebec (who pay extra for RDS) not matter? Yes,this is sarcasm. I’m sure most of us if not all of us don’t really care.
We have to realize that eller is a long term project..i am still not clear why we have such a high expectations for point production on a player that has scored around 77 goals in the last 5 years..he has potential that needs to be developed …his scoring stats dont jump out at you at any level he has played… so i am not sure why he is expected to produce at the nhl level without at least 4 years of experience and teachings…
Come on Habs — 3 straight wins Ottawa, Florida,Florida and you are right back in it. Those who want trades, goons, and new coaches — go cheer for the Leafs — they will surely need it with the new contract to the worse coach in the league LOL.
The reason the leafs are ahead of the habs is that they have 2 forwards that have more goals combined than gomez,dd,plecks,camm,eller,gion and darche…
I thought it was because they won more games than the Habs.
Way I see it Toronto has done a good job of beating the teams you are supposed to beat. There record against the better teams is not very good, but they have beaten the teams they need too. Something our team has been very poor at.
Right now kessel and lupol gives them a chance to win in many games as they produce one or two goals a game…if camm was having this type of season we would probably be ahead of the leafs as on many nights that one extra goal would have made a big difference
Sorry that I don’t sound like a delusional Hab fan (believe it or not I’m a life long Hab fan who will never cheer for another team) and I hate to say it but the loafs are (at this time) a better team, and project to remain a better team for (at least) the near future.
So this thing where coaches simply don’t communicate at all with their players to the point of player frustration.. Is this a Habs thing only? Carbo, JM and now Cunneyworth. Don’t talk to their players. Did anyone read BGLs book? He basically says that JM never spoke to anyone and that he had to learn what lines Carbo was going to play by going on the Internet!
He also has some harsh words for JMs coaching. Which you just know is all true. I suggest reading his book
To be a Habs coach you have to have great communication skills (ie. French) for the media. It really doesn’t matter how or how often you communicate towards your players!
It’s pretty obvious that Muller was the only one actually talking to the players and vice versa.
“Just Win, Baby” – Al Davis
BGL only played 2 min.a game ..what was there to say to him. Watch 24/7 on HBO if you want to see what coaches do
Every game we have 7 forwards in the lineup that most likely will not score a goal that night…we have had one of the lowest scoring teams for 200 games now..this team to make the playoffs will have to win many 2-1 and 3-2 games along with o/t and s/o wins…our forwards consists of players that will never be goal scorers in the league, players that may score one day but not this year and players that are on pace to meet expectations and players that are way below…bottom line when the season ends this team will be 20-26th in scoring so playoffs will not me made because of our offens but goaltending and d
When Serge Savard’s was GM of the Canadiens, he always gave you the impression as providing prestige, and class. He was
That may be, but he made plenty of stinky moves as GM, too.
I can put up with that “stink” for 2 Stanley Cups
“You have to be this tall to ride on this ride”
-as posted in amusement parks across North America
– should be posted in Canadiens dressing room
Larry Robinson made it very clear that he’s not interested in being a head coach but would love to be an assistant with the Habs. He approached the Habs on 2 different occasions 2 years ago wanting to join the coaching staff & PG did not even have the decency to get in touch with him.
Would love to have Big Bird as an asistant with Carbo behind the bench. Gainey really screwed his buddy Carbo big time & therefore he deserves a 2nd chance. But first we must kick PG out of the Bell Centre & the Habs organization because together with Gainey they have managed to make us the laughing stock of the NHL.
I agree. Having Big Bird back (home) with the Habs as an assistant coach would represent the best hiring they’ve made in years.
What the hush hush on Markov , shouldn,t we have a update on him by now. Today is the 27th same day we acquired the wiz last year. Diffficult to make trades with mtl players with all No movement clauses, who are they anyway..We URGENTLY require hard nose centers and someone who can go in front of net and corners, not like the smurfs that we have now..We need tu UPSIZE soonest,defense, center..
Randy Cunneyworth would of helped himself and the team if when asked if he was going to take french lessons ,would of answered “YES”.Saying”no”, he will try an pick it up as it goes was the wrong answer! Sorry,wrong guy for the job!
Clean house time….Dryden as G.M. and Robinson as head coach….and a scouting division for Quebec!
WOW! Listened to P.K’s audio clip. Didnt like the tone and decided not to listen to anymore of the clips.
WOW! If Randy actually said that then this whole PG/JM group of acquaintances which were brought in to manage-coach the habs are dumb and clueless. I cannot believe he would say that.
But saying yes just let’s the bullies win and also now introduces an EXPECTATION. What’s next, they demand him to speak a dozen new French words a week and give him pop quiz’s. If he fails he is out!
Let’s hope for a good showing. I have a feeling (and this was said on TSN 990 the other day) that Montreal will pull off a Calgary/New Jersey of last year and heat right up and play well from the break going forward, but will still fall short. Hopefully I’m wrong and we play well AND make it. Regardless it’s a learning experience this year for all the young guys and especially the D. Even if we don’t make the playoffs, this has been a valuable learning experience for the guys. Hopefully they DO learn from it (management as well), and do the same as Philly did a couple of years back when they surprisingly stunk up the place and finished bottom 5 in the league (i think it was bottom 5), react accordingly and bounce back the following year.
Here’s a sobering thought for the day. Cam Ward (!!!!) has more goals then Gomez this year
edit – 06/07 Philly finished 30th overall down from 9th overall the previous year, to bounce back to 14th the next year.
Proof that NHL 12 for X-Box is unrealistic:
My kid got it for X-Mas, and immediately played a Canadiens-‘Ruins match. Two cruel twists off the top: Hal Gill beat Lucy in a fight (!) and Markov was dressed and played (!!).
I had to avert my gaze.
Canes won’t take Spatcho for Kabs either, and I beat up Tootoo with Desharnais.
But my Markov is out with a knee injury
Ironic signature is ironic
Was starting to get excited about the Habs game tonight but talked myself down. I will watch the game because as a fan that’s what we do but I have no expectations for this club. There is really little hope outside of Price stealing enough points where we sneak in a play-off spot then quickly exit in round one. Holding out hope for Gomez? Gionta? Markov? Would any or all of those guys really make us a serious play-off team? Not in my opinion. So I’ve convinced myself to calm down and enjoy the remaining games with no stress. Better for the heart.
I took a lot of ribbing from my bruin fan brother-in-law on Christmas. That kind of thing just makes me a bigger Habs fan.
I take exception with the poll for next years’ coach. My choice right now is Cunnyworth. How can the present guy be totally dismissed. I still disagree that the coach has to be French speaking. I may not like the fact that the majority of fans and pundits are not on the same page as me but I accept it. In the case of a poll as this which is strictly opinion I find it insulting to Randy to already toss him.
It has nothing to do with the fans or media. Management wants a coach who speaks French. It is part of the job description to speak French to the media. It was insulting to RC for the Molsons to toss him under the bus, making him a lame duck less than a week after hiring him.
Blue, blanc et rouge. Red and White for Canada. Blue for Smurfs.
Cunneyworth can learn to swear in French in a day. Drop him at any bar east of St. Denis and don’t pick him up until closing.
Habs should put me on the payroll.
it has every thing to do with the media don’t kid yourself!
The poll is not asking who the management wants as the coach, it’s asking who we the fans want.
When the Habs were winning under him,Muller ran the defense and Jarvis ran the offense.
Both are gainfully employed elsewhere.
Geoff is President of this organization and I am thinking he will run this organization.JMO
If what poster, the dude, posted above is true then NO. Randy Cunneyworth is not the MAN.
It’s simple…pull the team out of the present doldrums and force the management to hire you. This team may not be a cup contender but it’s better than what they have shown.
Habs have to start drafting and trading for their specific needs. Not just the best available player. Enough of this picking up left winger over left winger when what we need is a bonified right wingers, large bodies with some grit. Same goes for D. we have a bunch of left handed d-men that can’t adapt to the right side. Lets not forget that our 2 best prospects Beaulieu and Tinordi also play on the left side. Last but not least if we are to aquire a # 1 type centerman one of our actual centermen has to go. We are loaded in centermen (Plek, DD, Eller, Gomez, Leblanc, Noks). Eller has the size he stays (he is a solid # 3 and could become a solid # 2. Leblanc doesn’t have the size but could become a solid 2-way number 3. If we pick up a number 1 neither DD or Plekanec would be #4. I’m writing off Gomez and Noks. So either we permanently convert Leblanc to a right winger and slavage a spot for DD or Pleks, or else both DD and Pleks have to go
The thing is the Canadiens don’t draft “the best player available”. They draft with the picks they are left with by the GM the player they think will have the best shot at being a pro. They have consistently been wrong. Trading down is wrong. Giving away picks is wrong. Why? Because those are your future assets.
If you as a GM think that all you have to do is hold the fort until superstars reach the magic age and then sign them – well you know nothing about people. By 26 a young player with ability is established in the community, is presented a long time big bucks contract, and doesn’t want to help you – he wants to help his sweater and team mates. Plus she doesn’t want to move away from all her friends.
So the Canadiens have few assets, and a lot of liabilities. When the best thing you can say about Gomez is that some team having trouble reaching the cap floor might take him off your hands for a pick or so then you know you’re not really cut out for the visionary business. So why would you draft players excelling at the toughest levels (CHL) when you could take high school players playing against house league teams.
I get very discouraged thinking about the moves the team makes and the trading “away” of picks as if the Canadiens were the only folks on earth able to recognize talent despite a track record to the contrary.
Great, except how are we going to get a #1 Center? You kind of skipped over that part.
yea ..those big fast agile scoring machine centers are a dime a dozen in every draft
For the last couple of weeks, I’ve been hearing names like Carbo, Therrien, Serge Savard (who’s been out of hockey for 17 years), Andre Savard, Hartley, Roy, etc…and it got me thinking of who I think should lead this team going forward. My choice, and although I think he is a pompous, obnoxious, loud mouth blowhart, is Pierre McGuire. Even though I hate listening to this guy on radio or on TV, he really knows the game, the players, prospects, is well prepared, and is really well respected in the NHL. Although he has no GM experience, I think he should be the next GM of the (can’t believe I’m saying this) Habs.
Hell no, god please no. He goes on radio, says a few logical things, slanted to make him look better than he is, and none of the host can him on it. And his hockey knowledge might be good compared to us, but highly unlikely to other people in does job. The guy purely calls out ppl based on hindsight. Please he already failed to get the GM job with the Wild a few years back, and with Tampa 2 season ago.
Also I believe before hiring Andre Savard as GM, Rejean Houle who was the current GM at the time, was looking at McGuire as his replacement and didn’t. So you know you aint getting an NHL job if Houle won’t even hire you.
I agree. Although McGuire seems to like the sound of his own voice, he certainly does know the players in the league, the gm’s and coaches, the juniors, the AHL level and the international players. Just what we need: someone with foresight and a solid knowledge of who’s out there. McGuire for gm.
I wouldn’t mind Andre Savard for GM, he was the first GM to start righting the ship after the damage by Houle but then gave way to Gainey. Although I don’t know what Andre Savard has been doing all these years. Pierre McGuire is interesting but I’d rather see him tackle some other bottom dweller team first and then we can all laugh and point if he fails miserably at turning that team around.
I wouldn’t mind Bob Harley for coach either.
I havn’t read anything yet but I can understand why PK was benched. He seems to have been directly involved in many goals against this season. He has always been taking the difficult way out of the zone challanging forecheckers when all he needs to so is make the pass. Eller on the other hand I thought has been a good 2 way player. I’m I missing something?
yes he doesnt pass the puck… lets see how long he lasts on the top line,, cole will let him know if he continues to play a selfish game
true he does hang on to it a bit long.
This is silly.
Eller gains and maintains puck possession better than any Hab forward not named Tomas Plekanec.
Like a young Plekanec, Eller can end up holding onto the puck too long, waiting for the perfect pass. That can be a problem. On the other hand it also allows him to setup goals like the “winger making an unexpected change, Kostitsyn charging off the bench to the point” goal a couple of weeks back (or possibly years… this constant losing seems to cause time dilation effects).
In the last month or so he seems to be shooting more. I think whatever coaching exists has been trying to get him to shoot more, make quicker passes and avoid brain fart defensive lapses, all of which will come.
“Et le but!”
Subban essentially was thrusted in the number 1 d-man spot, a spot above his capabilities for now, and then everybody criticizes him…Its like if the Gazette came to me and made me head writer and then criticized me for not being top level. Habs are a bit in desperation.
[Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.
I do remember last year JM benched PK for 2 games. His game vastly improved after that. I hope for the same this time.
And last year his benching was not really deserved by an objective analysis of his play. He was a kid being forced to step up and making mistakes, but was still the best D man on the team by a wide margin.
I don’t recall reading comments from him last year. If he did speak publicly, I doubt that he bent over and asked for more.
As a coaching move, this is pure psychology. If you accept that it worked last year when I doubt that PK felt he deserved excoriation maybe it works this year even though he is not expressing mea culpa platiudes
P.K. benching was justified. But to say that he ALWAYS challenges the opponent and doesnt pass the puck is WRONG. In fact the 3rd goal scored against us in the last game he played was a direct result of a new tendency by him and other habs to pass the puck around behind the net and NOT FIGHT for clear possession and turn to face up ice and then with clear vision make the pass.
hey boone, maybe Cunneyworth should be one of the options on your list of “next coaches” in the Poll Question.
when the french press writes off Cunneyworth because of language, we all scream bloody murder.
isn’t it “possible” that Cunneyworth will turn this around and learn french in the off season?
I would accept that as a solution
i agree Ed,,,
Of course he should have been one of the options.
Why would you include the current coach as the potential next coach? The current day is the 27th, the next day will not also be the 27th.
GO HABS GO! 2011-12 is probably not our year!
Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81
he is current “interim”.
he would be next “coach” – not interim.
Ya I know, pretty disrespectful but not surprising.
Read the post from “the dude”.
Eller needs to set up, starting tonight. He needs to show that he can produce offensively, Looking into next season with the likelihood that Gomez is gone, Eller and DD need to prove that they can be a 2nd and 3rd line centres. IMO DD has held up his end, time for Eller.
Eller will be good when he learns to pass the puck and also put it on the tape. he has no hockey vision at this point,,
Talking about no vision. LOL! You sir are blind.
anybody else miss captain Kirk? tis the missing piece of the puzzle?
yeah i miss captain kirk11. why would they not give him the coaching job in montreal to start the season this year i will never understand
He isn’t that good of a head coach IMO, really good ast. coach, but he hasn’t been anything special with the Canes either. Goes for Boucher as well, I think he is a good coach but talk about over hype.
I disagree. he has a rebuilding team in carolina and now the canes are buying into the new system, continue to watch .. he was the system in montreal, once gone there was no system.
Time will tell I guess, but the problem with kirk as a head coach is since he is a “players coach”, players at some point start to take advantage of that, and he doesn’t have the mean streak that other “player coaches” have like Torts and laviolette.
coaches don’t just come in and BAM, system adapted and working. takes time bud.
me neither. but it has clearly shot them in the foot (probably severing the big toe)
So you want Muller to be in the middle of the language firestorm instead of Cunnyworth?
Muller speaks french. no firestorm. they’d probably notice that most of the team aren’t even canadian. odd for a team called ‘les canadiens’ though…
Muller hasn’t spoke more then 2 consecutive words of french in his time in montreal(unless he read some prepared statement off a cue card that i’m not aware of). I don’t think that makes him french. I wish he had been given the job though just to see if we would be reading the same crap that is being printed now. I would say no.
he’s like koivu. speaks it but prefers not to do it with the media (understandably)
to late now, they should have fired martin at end of season. Muller would have had the respect of the quebecoix as he was captain and also helped win the cup in 93,, in my eyes he was as important as R
Ya an ENGLISH guy, haven’t we been through this before? Don’t you know Quebec now? If you don’t speak FRENCH you are trash.
I need a coffee. Oh, and this game tonight will be ugly. I’m looking at the schedule and having a hard time figuring out if Montreal will win another game this season.
With Markov out, Montreal’s roster consists of Carey Price and 19 guys who are not Carey Price. If I am not mistaken, Price is two full seasons away from seven seasons in the NHL and free agency. His current deal expires at the end of this year. If this team is in rebuilding mode, I do not see why he would give up any free agency years to Montreal. I would expect him to sign a two year deal and see how good the team is at that point.
Price is clearly not on board with the franchise at the moment. That could change, should the team start to win. He is considered a world class goalie, but given the current state of the franchise, it is unlikely this team will be contending in two or three years. The franchise has no proven young talent under contract beyond 12-13. Yes, there are prospects and yes Leblanc has a three year entry level deal, but every team in the NHL has prospects. Until they play, they are just prospects. This is exactly the worst possible circumstances – lame duck gm and coach, poor on ice performance – for trying to convince Price to sign a multiyear deal.
Rebuilding only works if Price is the cornerstone.
“Price is clearly not on board with the franchise at the moment. ”
This franchise has given Price every opportunity to succeed and has stood behind him from day 1. There is absolutely no reason for Price to be ‘not on board with this franchise’
Listen to what Price said post the Winnipeg loss.
Can you please summary what was said?
He accused his teammates of playing as individuals and not as a team. Here is a link:
I guess the 35 previous games was not enough of a chance? There is nothing wrong with a player being disappointed about sitting and even being vocal about it. But this sounds more like ‘it’s not my fault, it’s the coaches’ crap to me.
Instead of hearing ‘I’m pissed off but I will just have to try harder to give the coach what he wants’ it’s ‘I’m pissed off and how can I help the team if I am not given the opportunity’
I found PK’s comments disturbing. He knows exactly what he’s saying. Instead of receiving messages and improving his performance he is concentrating his efforts on sending messages out. He would be well advised to focus on his game and to stop making such unhelpful remarks. Sure it sucks to be a healthy scratch but it’s better to suffer in silence than to aggravate the situation even more.
“Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”
So, he’s a little grumpy about a silly ploy by the coach. He goes from #1 time to the bench. No wonder he’s grumpy.
Yes, makes me wonder what’s going on inside his head.
Also consider PK’s comments as proof he is no longer being mentored by Hall Gill, that Habs don’t have a D coach never having replaced Rick Green (what the ? is that?) and in Markov’s absence why couldn’t Larry Robinson coach the D? True he can’t handle the stress of being head coach, but as a coach of the D wouldn’t he enjoy working with PK, Emelin, etc.?
Then PK wouldn’t be as frustrated and dig himself a hole in the press.
Randy Ladouceur is the d-coach and a former D-men. Don’t let facts get in your way.
I’ll never want the Habs to loss, but I pray that we don’t finish 9-11 in the East. IMO there are some good piece to retool, this isn’t a bad team but just a team having a really bad season. Get a nice draft pick, traded some of our Vet ufa for some picks, Gill,Campoli,Moen, and retool and we’ll be a contender next year with the new format.
No offence, but I really hate this attitude and the fact that so many people share it. I wish that leagues would stop rewarding teams for failing more then other teams. In my opinion any team that does not make the playoffs should go into a draw for draft seeding (same chance for all non playoff teams). That would put an end to this non stop chattering about tanking.
Well until that happens, some of us will continue to chatter.
Let the tanking resume.
The problem with tanking is that usually winning consistently is something that is gradually built up within a team. It’s pretty hard to have a team not really care about winning for the last half of a season and then turn around at the start of the next season and expect a winning attitude.
Great teams are build not only by the draft but by learning to win as a group and developing and maintaining a winning culture. That is why 36 wins in a season will always be better then 32 wins, because it is one step closer to building that culture.
Tanking is not about not caring or about not trying to win but about the team making good long term decisions rather than applying temporary bandaid patches.
While I agree with you, the fact remains that with 36 wins you might be drafting 7-10 overall, but with 32 wins your looking at a 1-5 pick. And what the Habs lack is true impact forward that is easier found in picks 1-5.
I agree. Though there are teams that can turn around after an uncharacteristically bad season. The Flyers had 101 points in 05-06, 56 in 06-07 and 95 in 07-08. They drafted second overall in 07 and scopped up James van Riemsdyk.
In suggesting that Montreal stick with the status quo, making only those deals that will be of benefit to the team’s long-term success rather than goose its chances for a playoff berth, proponents of this approach are not suggesting the team adopt a non-caring attitude for the remainder of the season. There is still the demand that the players work hard and in concert, eschewing stupid penalties and dumb play. If they can master the latter, they will have made considerable progress and increased their chances of winning. Hardly the traits of a team resigned to failure.
That’s a good and fair idea. Don’t listen to the c’est-nayers.
It is not a bad team, but it is not one or two draft picks from contending. its offense is at the bottom of the league, it has no depth on defense and has capital committed to oft injured and underperforming veterans.
what would the haul be for these three guys? and at what point would those picks actually play in the NHL? chances are the combined return for these three guys would be one bottom half roster player in four years. none of these players is bringing a first round pick. chances are, some of htem could bring a late second or third round pick. in 08 Gil went for a second and a fifht. three years later, maybe he is worth a third. Campoli is a depth guy that was not signed until late in the preseason. maybe he is worth a third, probably a fourth. Moen might bring a third or a fourth. In general, it takes four or more years for a third or fourth round player to make an NHL roster. So trading Gil Campoli or Moen would have zero impact on the next three years and might have minimal impact in four years.
we have WAY too many passengers, and no killer instinct as a team. Thus we are not a good team. No amount of lipstick will change that.
i am in your camp. if it was up to me, the team would be relocated to Branson, Missouri to join the other nostalgia acts. Scott Gomez meet Yakov Smirnoff.
i agree this is not a good team. it is not a bad team either. i have said for nine years this is a mediocre team with undersized forwards that will go as far as a netminder will take them. each year it shoehorns itself into more bad long term contracts or wastes draft picks on free agent rentals.
Randy the Macho Man Cunneyworth needs a W tonight, or he is going to feel the heat. And it’s not going to be an easy game against a good offensive and rapidly-improving Ottawa team playing at home.
Price, Subban and Max are the 3 players that need to lead us out of this mess.
this game starts and ends with goaltending. when teams make mistakes, and every team does, the goalie MUST MAKE THE KEY SAVE IN THE KEY SITUATION.
Can Price play better than he has the past 2 or 3 weeks??
Absolutely. And he MUST play better for the Habs to win
neither 26 minutes, nor press box, are the right approach. how about something a little in between?
Subban needs to relax and ENJOY THE GAME!
If you are PK’s coach, you go up to him and tell him to
“just be yourself”
“don’t worry so much. just let the game flow naturally”
in the defensive zone, simple plays are best – 1 or 2 quick strides and then pass.
this will allow PK to regain his confidence
he needs to get to the net – go to the net and score some garbage goals and his game will come back very quickly.
also, keep it simple, straight lines, north south hockey.
hit a few people in the forecheck and Max’s game will pop back into place as quickly as it left him.
When the HAbs win, it will be because Price, Subban, and Max have lead the way.
You’re asking kids to lead our team. Fairly inexperienced guys to use hockey sense they have not yet acquired.
we need our injured boys back. We are a young team and our future looks pretty good. But the truth is we are a team that needs all our guys playing well and on the ice to be successful.
There may be other teams, but only ONE Club De Hockey…
“we need our injured boys back”
will not help us win tonight, will it?
I hear this little statement “Subban needs to relax and ENJOY THE GAME! If you are PK’s coach, you go up to him and tell him to just be yourself have fun don’t worry so much. just let the game flow naturally”. Personally, I don’t think so. I think he needs to act like a professional NHL level defenceman. There’s times when you rush, pinch and gamble. Then there are times when you “defend”. He seems to get these things all mixed up at times. It’s a mental thing that true “stud” defenceman achieve. That between the legs hot dog pass was a justified pass to the pressbox. Let’s see if he gets his head on straight. I think Subban needs to be a little bit more ornery. He ain’t no midget. Time for him to buckle down, he isn’t a rookie anymore.
“Is the little dog going to yap, or is he going to bite?”
players that have so much natural talent, need to let that talent flow out “naturally”.
that’s how they play “professionally”.
No, that’s how they become one dimensional players, then sit in the press box. He’s been given free rein and look where it got him.
Put Carbo back…still paying him anyways, and hire Chris Chelios as Asst / Defence Coach… The Ol’ Co-Captains!
Gm?? I dunno..I like Savard, Serge that is, but He traded Chelios, so whatever that tells you. Anyways, My Dad still say’s..”the next time Habs will win a cup, is when Pollack and Bowman both come back!” ha! We’re screwed then eh? 😉
Kinda sad that that’s how some of the older guys think. Either way, I’ll be in Florida on Friday, wearing my Nilan Jersey in Sunrise new years eve!
Happy new Year everybody! Be Safe!
No. Why go backwards? This makes no sense. Carbo? We’ve been down that road. Savard? I’m pretty sure being out as long as him that I’d be better at the job. There are plenty of good hockey people out there who would be a good gm. As for coaching, let’s not recycle a mediocre coach.
i for one do not care what the Ottawa Citizen thinks about Montreal..it is after all…Ottawa..they will use anything to kick the other team when they are down…their own team is known as the coach killers…they should worry about McLean and their own issues…
second place is just the first loser
Montreal Canadiens Playoff Chances
Did not play, playoff odds up 1.1 to 16.6%
33 points 13 16-7
my spiked eggnog comment would increase the habs odds to 49.5% due to:
ottawa can not be a playoff team
florida can not be a playoff team
habs have had more injuries than most teams
I can not believe that on the question about the next coach on this page, that 30% want Carbo back. I voted Larry, but I just wonder if he would be able to make a great GM.
My real pick for coach and GM is Don Hay and George Burnett who are currently coaching the juniors. With Timmons still running the scouting dept. this would be a fantastic group of winners.
By the way, our best scout over all that is on the Habs scouting staff is the great Vaughn Karpin. The best scout in the NHL in my opinion.
Is it Timmons or Simmonds?
Sorry! Simmonds owns the OHL Belleville Bulls. Timmons is correct Thanks.
Ian, I doubt very much that Larry Robinson would accept the Head coaching job for the Habs. He does not handle stress well. Great as assistant but too demanding as the Head Coach. I would also not mind seeing Carbonneau back. The real problem with the team for years has been at the GM level. With a huge amount of poor decisions and the exodus of players without draft choices in return. Hopefully Molson can make the proper decision as he’s the only one that can end this fiasco. The coaches no matter who they are must go with the players available. We have a lot of good players but too many are alike (as in too small and not tough enough). We need to rebalance by trading for size and toughness to eliminate our unidimensional team.
I find it interesting that Montreal is playing Ottawa, Florida and Tampa this week. I only mention this in terms of the new realignment that will take place next year. Right now, we only have to be concerned with half of the NHL as we try to beat out seven other teams for a playoff spot. Next year, we will be reverting back to the original six format except it will be a seven team division Not only will we play them an inordinate amount of times but we will also only have to beat out three other teams to qualify for the post season, a playoff match that will then see us take on two of those same teams. Montreal’s world is about to get much smaller. Fans better hope that the Habs are well equipped to deal with their new division rivals or it could be a very tough challenge moving forward.
Right now, Montreal’s young nucleus is centred around a dozen players who are 26 and under. No need to post the names as we all know who they are. So the question becomes how do those young players stack up against the prospects on the other six division rivals?
Here’s a listing of Ottawa’s top dozen: Robin Lehner, Erik Karlsson, Jared Cowen, Bobby Butler, Nick Foligno, Colin Greening, Milan Michalek, Stefan Noesan, Matt Puempel, Zach Smith/Erik Condra , Mark Stone, Kyle Turris and Mike Zibanejad. Let’s break down a team’s prospects into three categories: blue chippers, 50-50 and long shots. Michalek has already arrived due to his age of 26. So have a few other mid range prospects who are currently on the Sens’ roster. Karlsson is a blue chipper and the same might be said for Zibanejad. Stone is a major player to watch at the WJC and is a definite 50/50 prospect along with at least another four young players.
I expect Ottawa to eventually fall back this year but they have done a quick turnaround seeing how bleak it was just six months ago. You would think they would be a team that Montreal could beat out for a playoff spot during the next few years but it’s hard to tell right now. A lot depends on the development of young goalie, Lehner.
good post – i dont like to write long posts but i have a theory on successful teams and how they balance pay and ability of veterans and young guys… to be successful you have to have a couple very good players earning about $1M and the majority of your vets making $4M+ need to be earning it… the habs right now obviously have too many vets not pulling their weight and not a single young player playing above expectations…well DD fits that mold so i stand corrected.
take the young core and interchange a few veterans and the habs could have a very successful team… the good is that most pof the habs have big upsides (the bad is that they have been playing poorly thus the upside)
the positive spin is that once gionta and cammy start putting up career average numbers the team will turnaround – pleks and AK46 can be better… on the back end the young dmen have for the most part played very good… on some nights the habs have 4 dmen playing with less than 100 game sunder their belts
I think ottawa and montreal’s prospects are a wash..
Filatov and Turris are their best two offensive prospects while Pacioretty is ahead of the curve on both of them and Eller is at the same level as Filatov and Turris.
Karlsson is at the moment better than subban offensively, but defensively subban may be better
I would give Ottawa the edge cause their players are overall bigger… we’ll see cause a lot of the players they have now wouldn’t be in the NHL if they had a stronger team.
– If the NHL was the Wizard of Oz, Cammalleri would be the Cowardly Lion.
Your point is well taken regarding the Sens relatively quick turnaround. Part of the reason is drafting/trading/acquiring players intelligently but I believe the biggest reason is that their new coach comes from a long tradition of winning in Detroit.
Sadly, the owner doesn’t appear to understand the value of that most important intangible. Jacques Martin was a small step in the right direction in that he was at least experienced (compared to his predecessors) but he was never a winner of anything significant – likewise the current GM. Even if the Habs were to draft “can’t miss” prospects and acquire the best free agents available it wouldn’t matter. If the owner doesn’t surrounded them with winners and a culture of winning once they get to Montreal they will not develop into winners.
You can see the frustration in guys like Erik Cole (who is a winner) and Price (a winner at every level at which he’s played). I think they are seeing the rot setting in and it wouldn’t surprise me if they give up (on an organization that’s quickly becoming one of empty promises) when their contracts expire.
If it really is just about money for M. Molson, then surely he has sufficient business acumen to recognize what’s best for his Habs is also what’s best for his shareholders and bring in winners to run the hockey side of the organization?
“Shut up and play against him” – Bob Gainey (2011 Heritage Classic)
I find it interesting that the Sens underachieved and got rid of the management/coaches that set that up. Where is that team now? What are the results? Yeah.
Ottawa has been playing decent hockey lately. We will have to bring our A game tonight.
Yesterday was the very first time that Cunny has held a full organized practice in Brossard since he has taken over. Lets just see if he has come up with a winning game plan of his own making.
Going from playing on the first pair to a healthy scratch to the first pair again absolutely makes no sense to me. If Gorges and Subban are back together today Emelin who´s much better on the left also almost certainly ends up on the right again if he plays. Gorges with Diaz and PK with Emelin would make much more sense but obviously neither Gill nor Kaberle are capable of playing a couple of minutes on the right. Very sad.
If Gauthier were a good GM he would pack Gill and Campoli or Weber + a low pick or Palushaj if necessary to get an experienced dman with size who plays on the right.
Well, at least it´s nice to see that Eller gets two decent wingers for the first time this season. On the other hand, he has good chemistry with AK. Switching him and Cole would make more sense.
I thought Gorges was able to play both sides
Yes, he is. Kaberle and Gill are not and both of them should be on the third pair at best.
Great seasoned D men are in big demand in the league. The only way to get them is through the draft. No team is giving best D players away for players that might not even stick on their roster. Develop our own draft picks is the only way to get to the top.
But you have to know what type of players to draft and stick with them. Not give them all away like we have for nothing in return the past 3 years.
I am not talking about a great player. I am talking about a Paul Mara typ of guy with a little bit more skill.
The club obviously let all those vets walk because of a glut of kids on D coming up. So we are paying the price for training kids on the job.
PBS is following the lead of HBO and moving into sports programming. It won’t be reality TV like 24/7, which is offering a behind-the-scenes look at the Philadelphia Flyers and the New York Rangers. Instead, over the next few months, PBS will be following the star-crossed Montreal Canadiens with veteran sportswriter Bill Shakespeare sitting down with various hockey experts to get their take on a franchise beset by controversy.
The network recently showed a clip from The Tempest’s first show, A Midwinter’s Nightmare, with hockey insider Puck.
Bill: Tell me, Puck, you’ve been covering this team for ages, what do you make of them in their current state? They fired their coach and assistant coach and installed a guy who can’t speak French and has yet to win in four tries.
Puck: Lord, what fools these mortals be! They wilfully themselves exile from light.
Bill: Of common sense?
Puck: Thou speak’st aright!
Bill: How are the fans handling it?
Puck: Now the hungry lion roars, And the wolf behowls the moon!
Bill: I’ve been to their website, I know what you mean.
Puck, you’ve been highly critical of the numerous line combinations the coaching staff has tried over the season, without any lasting success. You even made fun of it in a recent column, saying it had become a game within a game
Puck: As this their jangling I esteem a sport.
Bill: Don’t you mean juggling?
Bill: Okaaaay. I understand you’re impressed with the play of Cole.
Puck: Swifter than arrow from the Tartar’s bow!
Bill: What about the rest of the team?
Puck: A crew of Patches, rude mechanicals.
Bill: I also take it you’re not too happy with the attitude of some of the players.
Puck: What hempen home-spuns have we swagg’ring here!
Bill: Isn’t there the possibility that the team can turn it around, based on its history – what’s past is prologue, as they say? Judging by what you wrote yesterday, I gather you don’t think so, saying the players have become worn down from losing and no longer have confidence. You say the pressure is causing them to make mistake after mistake.
Puck: Their sense thus weak, lost with their fears thus strong, Made senseless things begin to do them wrong.
Bill: Thanks, Puck, for your candid if sometimes cryptic remarks. Let me ask one more time, because it means so much to the fans: Isn’t there any chance this team will get it going, that this is just all a bad dream?
Puck [shaking his head wearily, with a resigned look]: When thou wakest, with thine own fool’s eyes peep…
Bill: Hey, wait a minute, who are you calling a fool?
[At that point, the clip ended with Shakespeare reaching across and grabbing hold of Puck’s tie.]
Next week’s show, The Comedy of Errors, has Tempest host Shakespeare interviewing hockey analyst Dromio of Ephesus (cousin of Tie Dromio, ex-Leafus).
— “A little song, a little dance, a little egg nog down your pants.” —
I do wonder how you come up with this stuff John. Thanks for the read, but when I was in high school I tended to just read the Cole’s notes version of Shakespeare, do you know where I can find the Cole’s version of Puck’s witicisms?
Young man, I will not be doing your homework for you. How do you expect to get anywhere in life if you don’t show some initiative? Now get back to work on those questions I e-mailed you and be sure to return your assignment first thing tomorrow morning. You love hockey, so I don’t need to tell you, the play’s the thing.
So that’s a no on the Cole’s note version eh?
Erik Cole’s notes?
I have an old copy I can let you have for $7.99 plus shipping, handling and autograph
So that’s a no on the assignment, then? You do realize you’re in danger of failing the JB School of Hockeyology doctorate program? And I had such high hopes.
Remember JB, Puck’s final speech, addressed to the audience, was basically an apology for the preceding play and that if we didn’t like it we should just consider it all a dream. Good to know the first 36 games were simply a bad dream and that reality now takes hold.
(Another good one…keep ’em comin’)
Thanks, Punkster, always appreciate the feedback. I enjoy writing the stuff but never know how each will be received. CHeers.
“Considering the abuse and uncertainty Randy Cunneyworth’s faced since he was named Montreal’s interim coach, it would be fitting if Ottawa fans welcomed the former captain of the Senators with a big round of applause. He was one of the classiest players ever to wear an Ottawa uniform and it’s a disgrace the way he’s being treated in Montreal.” (Ottawa Citizen)
The view from the other side. Makes you think twice about the team that likes to boast about it’s tradition, honour and glory.
Is it just me or does it feel like the Habs’ 100th anniversary celebrations took place about a decade ago?
Cunneyworth is a seasoned pro, he will get through this and come out smelling like a rose with real fan support.
On the other hand, rookie Geoff Molson has a lot to learn about team work and standing up for what is right in life! Senator Molson must be rolling over in his grave to see his grandson act like a boso and be intimidated by the bigots!
Agreed, all this BS makes me sick. I just stick to watching the games now, and that’s it.
I think as fans we eat up the stuff thrown us. We bite at manufactured news, create tempests in teapots, and generally distract ourselves from the situation. It is like the Subban story. Is he a prima donna? Is he hard done by? We all figured out he has talent. Do talented players make those plays? Do talented PP QB’s have breakaway after breakaway? Is the media on his case? Were those players who spoke out about him last year right?
We don’t know. We only know what the team, players, and media feed us. Platitudes and opinion. The only thing we really know is how the team fares against competition, 25th spot out of 30. (Example: the poll at the right. Not designed to point out options, simply to generate hits and hype.)
A loss tonight and I think we’ll either see a trade or PG canned.
Lets kick some senaturd ass…my hubby is a Sens fan..I really really need them to win…we are better than they are…even though its at the Bank..it will be a sea of red..white..and blue…GO HABS GO!!!!!
The team is better with Subban in the lineup, despite his recent play. R-Cun tried something and it didn’t work. Let’s hope he doesn’t try it again and just lets PK play.
and let’s hope as well that there’s enough wisdom behind the bench to find ways to play the younger d’men who need the ice time. I’d like to see Yemelin and Diaz in the lineup every night, with Gill, Campoli and Kaberle rotated as healthy scratches each game. If Weber weren’t essentially the same player as Diaz, I’d play him too. An embarrassment of riches on the blue line, too “rich” for our team, I’d say.
Happy Holidays Everyone! I hope 2012 is your best one yet!
For the one millionth time…Any word on White and Markov???
“If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” (anon)
White, Gomez and Gionta are skating sperately from the team and will not make the trip.
Markov is not skating yet and I wouldn’t expect anything until after the all-star break
Give PK some shifts on the wing. It worked for Chicago with Big Buff.
It would be an interesting experiment when there are a surplus of qualified D-men instead of shipping one down to the Dogs.
Anyone remember that Babe Ruth started out as a pitcher?
Pipe dreams can become reality only if you give them a shot.
see my blog at http://noroomatthedump.blogspot.com/
ditto Red Kelly. All Star d-man thet Imlach turned into a very effective centre.
They showed on TSN that Wendel Clark was a defenseman, and in the World Juniors they tried him at forward. He never played defense again….
I also think larry robinson was drafted as a center. Not positive though.
No, he was a defenceman in junior.
You can read his memoir “Robinson For The Defence”, I found it at the public library.
Brent Burns was a forward though, Jacques Lemaire converted him to defence in Minnesota.
How about it NHL? No fighting, just hockey?
New lines today, Eller between Patches and Cole, I like that one.
It will end only if people have the balls to call them out on it. Not the great French speaking people of Canada, the bigots and separatist scum bags.
Give them back the Nordiques so they can leave our Habs alone!!!
All this garbage about 90% of their fans being French is a load of crap!
Across Canada, Quebec included, I’d say 40% are bilingual, 30% are French and 30% are English.
This gang of French journalists who are too lazy to transfer their interviews into English and these separatist bastards who hijack the situation for political gain are just that, SCUM!
100 percent agree with you moose! btw in these tough times I look at your avatar and crack a smile priceless!
How about playing him but cutting his ice time to 10 minutes? That should get the message across without depriving the team completely of his talent. He’s still better than most, and it’s not as if his replacement has anything of value to contribute. Although sometimes necessary, detentions for school kids or benchings for adult hockey players are not necessarily the most effective way of getting your point across. Maybe it will work, but I’m just saying that there must be another way: something between playing 25 minutes and not playing at all.
Gomer will get buried, Cammy will be traded for a draft pick close to the deadline. We’ll gain some size and cap space for next year
OOH AAH – HABS ON THE WARPATH!
You must be logged in to post a comment.
What do you think the Canadiens should do with Jarred Tinordi?
Hockey Inside/Out encourages lively debate, but there is a zero-tolerance policy regarding racism, profanity, personal attacks against other posters, and behaviour we deem to be offensive.
A valid email address is required for your HI/O profile.
We will, without warning, ban those who do not abide by this simple rule, so as to maximize the enjoyment of readers and participants of both sexes and all ages.
Hockey Inside/Out: Absolutely everything about the Montreal Canadiens For editorial inquiries, contact Gazette sports editor Stu Cowan. For advertising inquiries, please contact your Gazette sales representative. © 2015 The Gazette, a division of Postmedia Network Inc. All rights reserved. Unauthorized distribution, transmission or republication strictly prohibited. Terms and Conditions Privacy Statement