Are Canadiens fans losing faith?

Fans
At Thursday practice in Brossard, there were as many players as onlookers.
Dave Stubbs writes about the first hints of fan disaffection with their 13th-place Montreal Canadiens

More crucial games loom

Fixing the PP

Will Hal Gill be moved?

Gauthier is a ramblin’ man

Sabres also sinking

Trade deadline chatter

And just because we can’t get enough of it, the Bruins-bashing video:

534 Comments

  1. lenny says:

    I think one of the main reasons why everyone is so upset is because Hockey represents more than just a game. It’s an excuse to get together with friends and family. Saturday nights are all about taking your family over to your buddies house, the kids run to the basement to play, the wives get together and talk and you plant yourself in front of the TV to watch the game.
    We all know how winters are long and cold, hockey night is a chance to get out of your house or host…Preparing meal or ordering in…the hockey game is more than a block of 2 ½ hrs of TV….It’s our social outlet….

    When we have a team that can’t compete, when we all see the glaring deficiencies, yet management continually makes the same mistake it is infuriating. The habs management treat us the fan like crap…their code of silence and talking down to us is inexcusable…Why is it that I’ve heard other coaches and GM on Montreal airwaves, but there is a code of silence from the Bell Center…

    It’s mid January and the season is over…The Bell Center has become as fun as a morgue and the GM “the ghost” aptly named because his horrible moves haunt team for years is the captain of this sinking ship…The owner an” intelligent” business man who sold the team low and bought it back at a higher price….is running the show…what a Joke.

  2. mb says:

    Oh well, that’s almost as entertaining as last game vs Caps!

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/fr/page.htm?id=76959&navid=DL|NHL-fr|home

    Just kidding, of course.

  3. habs001 says:

    At least if we dont win today we can use the excuse the penguins played yesterday…and the good news is we can use the same excuse for ourself after the saturday game with the leafs if we get beaten…

  4. krob1000 says:

    Eklund has Derek Roy to Habs …

    • G-Man says:

      I have Malkin and Getzlaf to the Habs in return for Pleks and a 4th round pick. What? I’m not plausible either?

      • krob1000 says:

        lol…I just noted it because it is a diff’t type of rumour….Roy at 4 million would be manageable to say the leat and given Buffaol’s need to shake things up he may just be available….the cost? not sure but Roy is a sparkplug. If you shed the Gomez dea land filled that space with Roy and a stay at home , drop em if necessary dman….you have a darn good squad next year….

        • G-Man says:

          Yep, I’m in the camp that says the Habs need a few personnel changes, but not another purge. I’d gladly trade Weber and Diaz and AK for that Dman you mention.
          After all these seasons, AK floating around for weeks at a time just isn’t worth the frustration. He needs a change of scenery. Habs need a tough stay at home Dman.

    • shiram says:

      That would clash with his comments about size when he traded Cammy.
      Also it’s from Eklund.

    • powdered toastmann says:

      Ecklund eh?…whew that’s a relief. I heard the news about possible trade rumours this am on WGR 550 Buffalo on the way to the office. Had me worried for a minute.

      They (Buffalo sports radio personalities and fans) have been clamouring to dump Roy asap for ages.

      Small/soft/expensive top 6 (skilled) centre. Just what (the doctor ordered) the Habs need.

      i.e. Goat’s type of player (before his long awaited enlightenment)…Gainey’s too

    • Newf_Habster says:

      WTF! I do not believe their BS at all. 97 percent of his trade rumors have persistently proved false.

      • krob1000 says:

        I would bet his 3 percent is at least two peercent better than HIO’s trade rumours lol ..I jsut liket he idea because it may mean we are actively seeking an upgrade up the middle which should signify that we are looking at dealing Gomez and may have a taker.

  5. HABZ24 says:

    we are in our 18th year (since ’93) of a 5 year rebuild. hows it going? its not.why? crappy gm.gauthier makes quick bandaid solutions caving to fan and media pressure.eg,firing perry pern.we need pierre mcguire as gm,a long shot probably.we also as an anglo i must admit yes a bilingual coach is a no brainer.
    we need a gm to build with SIZE and talent, not smurfs and talent.smurfs and we know who they are get steam rolled by huge teams like philly.
    right now because we are so far in a hole,its actually better to lose and finish 26th in the league or lower, this way we are one of the 5 teams entered in the entry draft lottery to get the number one draft choice in june.ya its only a 20 percent chance of landing the nu.one guy but….
    we need to somehow unload,demote send to the sibirean hockey league the 8 million dollar dud gomez.thats a huge noose weve been dealing with too long, others see the guy earning (NOT EARNING) the biggest money to go public skating.other bust it and look at gomer opening his heavy pay statement while doing nothing and say the hell with it why should i kill myself gomers not. markov too,huge white elephant that gauthier signed.got to package gomer and marky and a pallet of molson ex for a coke machine and a second round draft choice to be named later. thats why this team is one big cluster puck right now.oh and yes ive lost faith in the habs this year, but no im not going for laser removal of my 3 habs tattoo’s.

    GO HABS GO

  6. SmartDog says:

    Most people seem to think that they’ll get rid of Gomez. I say that Molson is too cheap, and management too proud to do the right thing here.

    Most people also seem to think Kaberle is a good thing. I say another over-paid guy with no grit. I say… were you watching our useless power play the last couple of games?

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  7. Lafrich says:

    Maybe sarcasm is not coming across in some of the posts I am reading, so I need to make something clear:

    Are some of you actually questioning the Halak deal?
    1. It was 2 seasons ago
    2. Did you watch Carey Price play last year?
    3. Have you seen Eller play?

    That is all.

    • ed lopaz says:

      the trade makes sense Lafrich – you are absolutely right.

      but, here’s a thought.

      what happens when your stud, All Star goalie, goes flat for 20 games??

      what happens when you have a back up that has played a handful of games in the entire first half of the season?

      Price has had stretches like this 2 seasons ago.

      Bad bounces, bad luck, bad positioning, whatever you want to call it,

      Price is simply not STEALING games for us in the last month or so.

      He is supremely talented – no hockey guy would question that.

      But other talented goalies are STEALING games and helping their teams gather momentum.

      We are not getting that kind of “stand on your head”, “top 5 in the world goaltending”.

      We are not scoring enough.

      We are not good on the power play.

      and we are not getting HOT goaltending.

      It just so happens that Halak is hot right now, and Halak has been hot for the last several weeks.,

      but the trade was a good trade – although Schultz is a dud and so it was

      Halak for Eller and a dud.

    • duffy says:

      How many of those sixteen or so games lost by one goal were they lead the other team in many of those games may have been wins if not for Price letting in a couple of softies to find a way to lose.
      Average goalie that is WAYYYYYYY OVERRATED.

  8. Natrous says:

    Today on Montreal Radio, Guy Lafleur states that the ability to speak French should not matter when hiring a head coach.

    • shiram says:

      He’s right, hockey wise, it makes no sense to limit your search based on langage.
      But external pressure makes it so it is a requirement.

      • habs03 says:

        Sadly this, But I do think that if a big name coach like Babcock were available, I think the Habs would hire him.

        • krob1000 says:

          IF all other things are eaul..take the Francophone or bilingual coach…that makes perfect sense and should be a priority…but hurting everyone to satisfy that criteria is insane…it is that simple. Best man for the job….all things equal take the local flavour….I can even agree that should bet he way with the players as well….

          • habs03 says:

            I agree. The funny thing is, and I actually like that about PG, is that PG would say that there is no such thing as “all things being equal”. He was asked if he would take a local kid at equal talent and he replied with the “no such thing as equal talent” lol

        • Natrous says:

          Absolutely he would, because he’s a good coach AND a McGill alumni. If this is the case, which many in the media have suggested would be true if Babcock was available, simply highlights how hypocritical the argument is that a coach be able to speak French. It wouldn’t pacify 100% of this crowd, but I’d be willing to wager that the vast majority would be fine with his hiring, knowing of his connection to McGill.

          What does it say about this argument when there are inherent exceptions, along the lines of “well, he went to McGill” or “well, he’s won a cup or two elsewhere”?

    • krob1000 says:

      Guy Theflower is trying his best to help RC out and I don;t blame him….it helps a bit but what would really do things right would be for Beliveau to come out and say it…that would silence the critics. Guy is admired and adored but not necessarliy “respected” in the same way Beliveau is….if Beliveau came out and said that it would carry some serious clout.

  9. Chris says:

    I didn’t expect the Habs to fare this poorly this season, and I think most honest observers would share that sentiment. But that is the nature of the beast; few teams in any sports league can dominate. For a long-time, Montreal had a stranglehold on the best managers and coaches and reaped the successes. Now, other franchises discovered the best managers and coaches and get to enjoy their ride at the top for a while. It could not have been very fun to be a fan of most other NHL teams in the 1960′s or 1970′s.

    Anybody who pines for the “good old days” of the Montreal Canadiens should probably stop following hockey. That era, when a team could put together a collection of unparalleled stars and dominate the NHL in perpetuity, is over. There isn’t a single team in the NHL whose success comes even remotely close to the 1970′s Montreal Canadiens or 1980′s New York Islanders or Edmonton Oilers. And there likely never will be so long as the team has both an entry draft and a hard salary cap.

    To those that suggest that the Habs tank, I would argue that that is the ultimate insult to a fan base. For example, the Chicago Blackhawks saw their average attendance fall as low as 12,727 (62.1% of capacity) as recently as 2006-07 as they were in the midst of their re-building that lasted a decade. The Pittsburgh Penguins were bankrupt and saw their average attendance fall to a league-worst 11,877 in 2003-04. The Washington Capitals fell as low as 13,905 in 2005-06, despite that being the debut season of one of the most talented and exciting players to emerge in a generation, Alexander Ovechkin.

    Many of the arguments surrounding the Montreal Canadiens describe the team as a fundamental part of the cultural fabric of the city of Montreal and province of Quebec. We talk of the class of the franchise and its history. How can those same people then turn around and ask those fans to support a team that is intentionally trying not to win games? Are we really suggesting that the Habs adopt such a self-destructive team-building philosophy that has been repeatedly shown to drive fans away?

    The Montreal Canadiens should not and can not tank. They have a passionate fan base, both those that watch the games live in person and those that live throughout the world that invest a sometimes unhealthy amount of time and money in their chosen team, which deserve far better than the most cynical ploy in professional sports. The Montreal Canadiens must make every effort to make the playoffs each year, because that is their job as executives, as coaches and as players.

    Within that context, mistakes will be made, as is the case for every NHL team that doesn’t quite match its results to the expectations of its management team or fans. Were the Alex Tanguay and Georges Laraque acquisitions good moves in retrospect? Probably not. But who could possibly know that the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens, loaded with all those young players that seemed to still be developing, were not on the cusp of something special? The additions in that off-season (Robert Lang, Alex Tanguay and Georges Laraque) were all good acquisitions “on paper” within the context that they were made. On the ice, things didn’t work out.

    The team was subsequently rebuilt and generally met expectations; a trip to the conference finals and a tough seven-game loss to the eventual Stanley Cup champions is not exactly a record to be ashamed of except here in Montreal, where fans have become spoiled on past successes that, in many cases, they never actually viewed for themselves.

    I’m intending to spend the rest of the season enjoying the development of the young Habs players while hoping that next season is a better one for the team. If some fans have become so disillusioned or disenfranchised with the disapointing season that they can’t follow the team at all, that is of course their prerogative. Sports are intended to be an entertaining outlet from the drudgery of everyday life. If it isn’t fun anymore, people should find something else that they do enjoy and come back next season when everybody starts with a fresh slate.

  10. The Dude says:

    Some here had it right all along and got put to the coals and had names flung at them with their analysis of the Habs and where they were heading.I live on the other side of Canada and any and everyone who knows hockey knew the Canadiens were in BIG TROUBLES WITH LITTLE PLAYERS and I mean Tout Monde! Fenwick and Corsi stats are there to aid in deduction …but if you don’t use you brains it’s goinna end up…well. exactly like this Habs team ! What where Gainey ,Martin , Timmons and Gauthier thinking cus it wasn’t Cup Run! And if it wasn’t for Carbo …No Desharnais “a shining light this year”,because no scouting in La Belle. THE ONLY GOOD THING ABOUT THIS YEAR is that most hab fans are on the same page and all agree “if it smells like poo and it looks like poo and it has Marmite on the label ….IT’S POO!” Molsons bro’s you better act Now and put in an interim G.M. before Gauthier really screws us all. Need new faces and new headings with NO PAST CONNECTIONS to the Gainey years and a clearing of ALL veteran athletes on the Habs and who has the balls to deal with Prima Donna’s who want big new contracts after this Pathetic showing so far! You can do it David Molson………..

  11. Chris says:

    There is so much hype and coverage surrounding professional sports these days that I often wonder if people actually can enjoy the teams they claim to follow. When every single move is analyzed 12 different ways, when every contract is studied using advanced statistics and cap hits and comparables and when every loss is laid at the feet of Players X and Y, I suspect that it becomes increasingly difficult to enjoy the victories.

    I didn’t expect the Habs to fare so poorly this season, and I think most honest observers would share that sentiment. But that is the nature of the beast; few teams in any sports league can dominate. For a long-time, Montreal had a stranglehold on the best managers and coaches and reaped the successes. Now, other franchises discovered the best managers and coaches and get to enjoy their ride at the top for a while. It could not have been very fun to be a fan of most other NHL teams in the 1960′s or 1970′s, either. :)

    Anybody who pines for the “good old days” of the Montreal Canadiens should probably stop following hockey. That era, when a team could put together a collection of unparalleled stars and dominate the NHL in perpetuity, is over. There isn’t a single team in the NHL whose success comes even remotely close to the 1970′s Montreal Canadiens or 1980′s New York Islanders or Edmonton Oilers. And there likely never will be so long as the team has both an entry draft and a hard salary cap.

    To those that suggest that the Habs tank, I would argue that that is the ultimate insult to a fan base. Consider:

    One of the “Original 6″ franchises and one of the most intimidating rinks for visiting teams in the 1990′s, the Chicago Blackhawks saw their average attendance fall as low as 12,727 (62.1% of capacity) as recently as 2006-07 as they were in the midst of their re-building that lasted a decade.

    The Pittsburgh Penguins were bankrupt and saw their average attendance fall to a league-worst 11,877 in 2003-04. Rumours abounded of that franchise being sold and moved out of the market.

    The Washington Capitals fell as low as 13,905 in 2005-06, despite that being the debut season of one of the most talented and exciting players to emerge in a generation, Alexander Ovechkin.

    Many of the arguments surrounding the Montreal Canadiens describe the team as a fundamental part of the cultural fabric of the city of Montreal and province of Quebec. We talk of the class of the franchise and its history. How can those same people then turn around and ask those fans to support a team that is intentionally trying not to win games? Are we really suggesting that the Habs adopt such a self-destructive team-building philosophy that has been repeatedly shown to drive fans away?

    The Montreal Canadiens should not and can not tank. They have a passionate fan base, both those that watch the games live in person and those that live throughout the world that invest a sometimes unhealthy amount of time and money in their chosen team, which deserve far better than the most cynical ploy in professional sports. The Montreal Canadiens must make every effort to make the playoffs each year, because that is their job as executives, as coaches and as players.

    Within that context, mistakes will be made, as is the case for every NHL team that doesn’t quite match its results to the expectations of its management team or fans. Were the Alex Tanguay and Georges Laraque acquisitions good moves in retrospect? Probably not. But who could possibly know that the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens, loaded with all those young players that seemed to still be developing, were not on the cusp of something special after a season in which they were in the top-5 in scoring for the first time in over a decade? The additions in that off-season (Robert Lang, Alex Tanguay and Georges Laraque) were all good acquisitions “on paper” within the context that they were made. On the ice, things didn’t work out.

    The team was subsequently rebuilt and generally met expectations; a trip to the conference finals and a tough seven-game loss to the eventual Stanley Cup champions is not exactly a record to be ashamed of except here in Montreal, where fans have become spoiled on past successes that, in many cases, they never actually viewed for themselves.

    I’m intending to spend the rest of the season enjoying the development of the young Habs players while hoping that next season is a better one for the team. If some fans have become so disillusioned or disenfranchised with the disapointing season that they can’t follow the team at all, that is of course their prerogative. Sports are intended to be an entertaining outlet from the drudgery of everyday life. If it isn’t fun anymore, people should find something else that they do enjoy and come back next season when everybody starts with a fresh slate.

  12. CF says:

    Fix the PP?? Laughable. It has nothing to do with the methods or x’s and o’s. NOOOOOO shot from the point, nobody can shoot, nobody. Kaberle wouldn’t scare a novice goalie, PK cannot hit the net, Weber has no confidence. GM epic Failure.

    Cammy will be sold for a first rounder this year, if not, next year. It’s part of the rebuilding plan in Calgary.

    The story for the Habs at Trade Deadline will be AK, AK, AK.
    And to a much lesser extent Moen, Gill, Kaberle, Campoli.
    The past regime-GAINEY-set us back by holding onto UFA’s who had some worth and lost them for nothing. There was pressure that year, but the first round loss was crushing.

    WE CANNOT START NEXT YEAR WITH MARKOV HANGING OVER OUR HEADS. WE NEED ANOTHER GO TO DEFENSEMEN. IT’S OUR BIGGEST FLAW. PK IS NOT READY, NO ONE ELSE IS GOOD ENOUGH. MUST BE A TRADE OF FA. WE HAVEN’T HAD A STUD D MAN SINCE SOURAY LEFT. PERIOD.

    • LA Loyalist says:

      You’re forgetting Streit, who was very good for us, and Wiz, who was too expensive for PG’s faux leather wallet (he’s a vegan, after all), but in general you are right.

      In the modern game special teams can make a huge difference.

  13. HNS says:

    People whine about our management and have a right to. The real goat here is not the goat actually, Gainey was the guy that put the munchkins together while everyone was getting bigger. He let go of the better goalie no matter what the Pricebots say here.
    And the number one thing is Geoff Molson who needs to grow a pair and be the boss. Hockey is not surgery and when stupid decisions are made he needs to put his foot down. Last nite in St. Louis they had a shot of the owner and John Davidson looking like the cat that ate the canary while Halak was being a wall. When people give up on season tickets Geoff it’s going to be you that takes it in the shorts by ruining this storied franchise. Wake up and get your shit together. Clean house, hire the best people you can and not alumni cause it looks good. Let’s go damn it!

    • LA Loyalist says:

      Price needs to step up here.

      2 goals on 4 shots? While Halak is nailing two shutouts in a row?

      Yeah his team is better, but still… it looks very bad when it’s a headline on TSN.

    • Malreg says:

      Ya, Halak was being a stone wall standing on his head making a whopping 15 saves for his shutout.

      • bleedhabs81 says:

        To play devils advocate (I am a huge Price fan), Price only had 16 shots on Wednesday (that hurt for me to say)

        I agree with what you attempted to do, though.

        Who cares about Halak? I don’t. I like the decision to keep Price and it seemed (last year) that it was the correct decision.

        If/when Halak puts 65 games/year up and has better numbers, then I might reconsider.

  14. Chris says:

    There is so much hype and coverage surrounding professional sports these days that I often wonder if people actually can enjoy the teams they claim to follow. When every single move is analyzed 12 different ways, when every contract is studied using advanced statistics and cap hits and comparables and when every loss is laid at the feet of Players X and Y, I suspect that it becomes increasingly difficult to enjoy the victories.

    I didn’t expect the Habs to fare so poorly this season, and I think most honest observers would share that sentiment. But that is the nature of the beast…few teams in any sports league can dominate. For a long-time, Montreal had a stranglehold on the best managers and coaches and reaped the successes. Now, other franchises discovered the best managers and coaches and get to enjoy their ride at the top for a while. It could not have been very fun to be a fan of most other NHL teams in the 1960′s or 1970′s, either. :)

    Anybody who pines for the “good old days” of the Montreal Canadiens should probably stop following hockey. That era, when a team could put together a collection of unparalleled stars and dominate the NHL in perpetuity, is over. There isn’t a single team in the NHL whose success comes even remotely close to the 1970′s Montreal Canadiens or 1980′s New York Islanders or Edmonton Oilers. And there likely never will be so long as the team has both an entry draft and a hard salary cap.

    To those that suggest that the Habs tank, I would argue that that is the ultimate insult to a fan base. When you ask fans to shell out hundreds of dollars per ticket to fill the largest arena in the NHL, you had better as an organization be doing all you can to ensure that your team is as competitive as possible each season. Consider:

    One of the “Original 6″ franchises and one of the most intimidating rinks for visiting teams in the 1990′s, the Chicago Blackhawks saw their average attendance fall as low as 12,727 (62.1% of capacity) as recently as 2006-07 as they were in the midst of their re-building that lasted a decade.

    The Pittsburgh Penguins were bankrupt and saw their average attendance fall to a league-worst 11,877 in 2003-04. Rumours abounded of that franchise being sold and moved out of the market.

    The Washington Capitals fell as low as 13,905 in 2005-06, despite that being the debut season of one of the most talented and exciting players to emerge in a generation, Alexander Ovechkin.

    Many of the arguments surrounding the Montreal Canadiens describe the team as a fundamental part of the cultural fabric of the city of Montreal and province of Quebec. We talk of the class of the franchise and its history. How can those same people then turn around and ask those fans to support a team that is intentionally trying not to win games? Are we really suggesting that the Habs adopt such a self-destructive team-building philosophy that has been repeatedly shown to drive fans away?

    No, the Montreal Canadiens should not and can not tank. They have a die-hard fan base, both those that watch the games live in person and those that live throughout the world that invest a sometimes unhealthy amount of time and money in their chosen team, which deserve far better than the most cynical ploy in professional sports. The Montreal Canadiens must make every effort to make the playoffs each year, because that is their job as executives, as coaches and as players.

    Within that context, mistakes will be made, as is the case for every NHL team that doesn’t quite match its results to the expectations of its management team or fans. Were the Alex Tanguay and Georges Laraque acquisitions good moves in retrospect? Probably not. But who could possibly know that the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens, loaded with all those young players that seemed to still be developing, were not on the cusp of something special after a season in which they were in the top-5 in scoring for the first time in over a decade? The additions in that off-season (Robert Lang, Alex Tanguay and Georges Laraque) were all good acquisitions within the context that they were made. Lang gave the team a veteran center with size and skill, Tanguay had shown in Colorado that he could excel as a complimentary player and Laraque was acquired to fill the perceived need for toughness on the Habs roster. On paper, good moves. On the ice, things didn’t work out.

    The team was rebuilt and generally met or exceeded expectations; a trip to the conference finals and a tough seven-game loss to the eventual Stanley Cup champions is not exactly a record to be ashamed of, except here in Montreal where fans have become spoiled on past successes that, in many cases, they never actually viewed for themselves.

    I’m intending to spend the rest of the season enjoying the development of the young Habs players while hoping that next season is a better one for the team. Like many, I feel this season is almost certainly a lost cause and the team should strongly consider making some transactions that secure a return on current assets that don’t fit into the team’s future plans.

    If some fans have become so disillusioned or disenfranchised with the disapointing season that they can’t follow the team at all, that is of course their prerogative. Sports are intended to be an entertaining outlet from the drudgery of everyday life. If it isn’t fun anymore, people should find something else that they do enjoy and come back next season when everybody starts with a fresh slate.

  15. christophurrr says:

    derek roy to mtl (e3) haha

  16. SmartDog says:

    5 TRUE/FALSE QUESTIONS:

    1. Gauthier & Molson WILL find a way to get Scott Gomez off our books for next year.
    2. We need some players who can help us NOW.
    3. Gauthier is the man to be running this team.
    4. Molson owning the Habs is a good thing.
    5. By March we will have dumped Gill and one of Kostitsyn or Moen for picks and prospects.

    SD

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • shiram says:

      I do think something will be done with Gomez before the start of the next season, maybe I’m hopelessly optimistic on this issue, but that’s how feel considering the moves made so far. The new CBA should have points concering those long term contracts, or a free buyout period.

      The team needs players for the next season, if they can come in now and start on chemistry and all that jazz good.

      Gauthier has not been great, but not awful either, unless a clearly more competent GM is available, keep him for now.

      I don’t think I can speculate on Molson.

      Those guys are definately on the bubble and could be moved.

    • G-Man says:

      1. Only because of the CBA. (No hockey this fall.)
      2. Only players that can contribute to a 30 game winning streak ;)
      3. Depends upon who is available.
      4. Ownership that allows spending to the cap is all that’s necessary.
      5. Gill and AK are likely. I’d try to sign Moen for 3 seasons max at $2mil. Habs can’t get rid of 2 forwards with size.

    • nellis13 says:

      1. No
      2. No. We should be playing for a draft pick. We want to finish in the bottom 5
      3. No
      4. Owning yes, President not sure
      5. I hope so. You can maybe add Plecks to the list.

    • The Dude says:

      1) y
      2)young big players and draft choices now
      3)NO!
      4)Bombardier wouldn’t put up with this debacle!
      5)y

    • LA Loyalist says:

      1. They are fancy business guys, you would think they could do it, but for now, unknowable, Let’s go to Notre Dame and light candles.
      2. False, we want draft picks. Vive le tanque ™
      3. False. We need a clean sheet of paper, though I blame Bob more than PG.
      4. Unknowable, we’ll see over the summer.
      5. Again, let’s go to Notre Dame and light candles.

  17. lenny says:

    I have not lost faith, I know with complete faith we will not make the playoffs and management is a complete joke!

  18. Chris says:

    Hmm…won’t let me post my tome. You should all consider yourselves lucky. ;)

  19. Chris says:

    There is so much hype and coverage surrounding professional sports these days that I often wonder if people actually can enjoy the teams they claim to follow. When every single move is analyzed 12 different ways, when every contract is studied using advanced statistics and cap hits and comparables and when every loss is laid at the feet of Players X and Y, I suspect that it becomes increasingly difficult to enjoy the victories.

    I will freely admit to the fact that I entered this season optimistic. I still didn’t think the Montreal Canadiens were quite there yet, but I was impressed with the improvement in forward depth and I was happy to see some of the younger kids getting a chance to shine. I was worried about the effect of losing Hamrlik, who never got enough credit here in Montreal for shouldering a heavy load on the blue line, and I was concerned about the continued drop-off in the level of Hal Gill and a sophomore slump by P.K. Subban, similar to those suffered by other hot-shot young defencemen such as Drew Doughty or Tyler Myers. The blue line was a concern. Short of free-agency, Montreal had to start to renew its blue-line from within, and Emelin, Diaz and Weber gave them some younger guys to take a look at, as Beaulieu, Tinordi

    I didn’t expect the Habs to fare so poorly this season, and I think most honest observers would share that sentiment. But that is the nature of the beast. Other than San Jose, Detroit, Vancouver and, to a lesser extent, Philadelphia and Boston, there are no teams that perenially ride near the top of the standings. For a long-time, Montreal had a stranglehold on the best managers and coaches and reaped the successes. Now, other franchises discovered the best managers and coaches and get to enjoy their ride at the top for a while. It could not have been very fun to be a fan of most other NHL teams in the 1960′s or 1970′s, either. :)

    Anybody who pines for the “good old days” of the Montreal Canadiens should probably stop following hockey. That era, when a team could put together a collection of unparalleled stars and dominate the NHL in perpetuity, is over. There isn’t a single team in the NHL whose success comes even remotely close to the 1970′s Montreal Canadiens or 1980′s New York Islanders or Edmonton Oilers. And there likely never will be so long as the team has both an entry draft and a hard salary cap.

    To those that suggest that the Habs tank, I would argue that that is the ultimate insult to a fan base. When you ask fans to shell out hundreds of dollars per ticket to fill the largest arena in the NHL, you had better as an organization be doing all you can to ensure that your team is as competitive as possible each season. The teams that have tanked are generally the teams who did not have a fan base remaining to alienate. Consider:

    One of the “Original 6″ franchises and one of the most intimidating rinks for visiting teams in the 1990′s, the Chicago Blackhawks saw their average attendance fall as low as 12,727 (62.1% of capacity) as recently as 2006-07 as they were in the midst of their re-building that lasted a decade.

    The Pittsburgh Penguins were bankrupt and saw their average attendance fall to a league-worst 11,877 in 2003-04. Rumours abounded of that franchise being sold and moved out of the market.

    The Washington Capitals fell as low as 13,905 in 2005-06, despite that being the debut season of one of the most talented and exciting players to emerge in a generation, Alexander Ovechkin.

    So many of the arguments surrounding the Montreal Canadiens describe the team as a fundamental part of the cultural fabric of the city of Montreal and province of Quebec. We talk of the class of the franchise and its history. How can those same people then turn around and ask those fans to support a team that is intentionally trying not to win games? Are we really suggesting that the Habs adopt such a self-destructive team-building philosophy that has been repeatedly shown to drive fans away?

    No, the Montreal Canadiens should not and can not tank. They have a die-hard fan base, both those that watch the games live in person and those that live throughout the world but buy special cable packages to follow the games and buy Montreal Canadiens merchandise and invest a sometimes unhealthy amount of time in their chosen team, that deserves far, far better than the most cynical ploy in professional sports. The Montreal Canadiens MUST make every effort to make the playoffs each year, because that is their job as executives, as coaches and as players.

    Within that context, mistakes will be made, as is the case for every NHL team that doesn’t quite match its results to the expectations of its management team or fans. Were the Alex Tanguay and Georges Laraque acquisitions good moves in retrospect? Probably not. But I simply find it incredulous that so many fans look back at these moves and criticize them so caustically today. Who could possibly know that the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens, loaded with all those young players that seemed to still be developing, were not on the cusp of something special after a season in which they were in the top-5 in scoring for the first time in over a decade? The additions in that off-season (Robert Lang, Alex Tanguay and Georges Laraque) were all good acquisitions within the context that they were made. Lang gave the team a veteran center with size and skill, Tanguay had shown in Colorado that he could excel as a complimentary player and Laraque was acquired to fill the perceived need for toughness on the Habs roster. On paper, good moves. On the ice, things didn’t work out and the team was ultimately blown up after a humbling playoff loss.

    That we’re going through another hiccup this season is not particularly surprising. The team was re-built and, generally, met or exceeded expectations; a trip to the conference finals and a tough seven-game loss to the eventual Stanley Cup champions is not exactly a record to be ashamed of, except here in Montreal where fans have become spoiled on past successes that, in many cases, they never actually viewed for themselves.

    I’m intending to spend the rest of the season enjoying the development of the young Habs players like Eller, Emelin, Diaz, Desharnais and Pacioretty while hoping that next season is a better one for the team. Like many, I feel this season is almost certainly a lost cause and the team should strongly consider making some transactions that secure a return on current assets that don’t fit into the team’s future plans. That being said, I don’t foresee a firesale because I think the list of playes that don’t fit into the team’s future plans (Gill, potentially Gomez, maybe Kostitsyn and Moen given their pending UFA status) is not particularly long.

    Sports are intended to be an entertaining outlet from the drudgery of everyday life. If it isn’t fun anymore, people should find something else that they do enjoy and come back next season when everybody starts with a fresh slate.

  20. mike3131 says:

    I wonder if we will have won #25 by the time I get hired as our new GM.

  21. Bill says:

    The thing that worries me about Gauthier’s scouting trip is this: you don’t need to scout if you’re trading for draft picks, which is what he should be doing!

    So he must be looking for players … Buy he hasn’t got much to trade for them … Except our first round pick … He wouldn’t, right??

    • habs03 says:

      People hate on PG but all his trades can have been decent, even the Kaberle isn’t as bad as ppl make it seem. They say he is overpiad, but if you actually look at MTL cap space going forward, its a none issue(without Gomez). But rather get players that can play than prospects. Ex Gill or Moen for Kyle Clifford.

      • christophurrr says:

        well, the problem is that we actually have gomez’s contract.

      • SmartDog says:

        What? When you looked at Montreal’s cap space did you consider new contracts for Price and Subban? I don’t think so.

        And Kaberle… yes, what a GREAT power play we suddenly have. How many minutes did we have last game – 12? And couldn’t score. It’s a joke picking up this guy.

        ————————————-
        Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

        • habs03 says:

          With Price at 5.5M, Subban at 3M, Eller at 1.5, Emelin at 1.5, Diaz at 1M, AKost at 4M, we would still have the cap space to sign another D-men at 3-4M, and another forward at 3.5-4.5M. And thats with keep Gionta,Bourque,Cole, Kaberle. Just simply with Gomez gone.

          Oh ya, and that’s at this year cap, if it goes up, you have even more cap space..

          • G-Man says:

            Price at 5.5mil? I sure as hell hope not. Rewarding his “great” seasons here or his one in Hamilton?

        • krob1000 says:

          ??? Gill and Campoli alone (at over 4 million) AND bgl OFF THE BOOKS being of the books pretty well acount for Price and Subban. Factor in Gomez and we have roomgoing forward….
          Pleks(5), Gio(5)Cole(4.5)= 14.5
          Eller(1.9)-Rb(3.35)-Patches(1.7)=6.95
          DD(0.85)-Andrei(4.25)-Moen(2)= 7.1
          Blunden (.60)-Gomez(7.3)-White(.75)=8.65 37.2 million

          Markov(5.75) Gorges (4)
          Emelin (1.5) Subban (3.5)
          Kaberle(4.25)Diaz (1.1)
          wEBER (1) = 22.6

          pRICE 5
          BACKUP 1.1 = 6.1

          With BOTH Kaberle and Markov, Keeping Gomez, healthy raises to everyone you mention, healthy raises to both AK AND Moen,…there is still almost room…..removing Gomez allows this team a TON of wiggle room.

          • habs03 says:

            If you read above, I said Gomez needs to go, and with Gomez gone, you have 7.3 plus whatever the cap goes by to add a 4M forward and a 4M D-men.

        • Kooch7800 says:

          Subban should get 4 mill maximum cause his offense isn’t was pretty sad this year and Price should be close to 5 mill max. You don’t get elite goalie money until you are an elite goalie.

      • RGM says:

        The Kaberle trade is worse than people make it seem. We have a guy who was brought in for one thing: run the power play. He makes the same amount as a forward that can contribute 25-30 goals or a legit top-4 d-man. He plays less 5-on-5 than any other Habs d-man, and when he is on the ice he is largely ineffective. 3 points in 17 games. He does not in any noticeable way improve the club. We have another two years of this.

        ———————–
        GO HABS GO! 2011-12 is probably not our year!
        Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

    • LA Loyalist says:

      Bill that’s a damn good, if scary, point.

      As to the Kaberle trade, I think it was necessary, BUT it was only necessary because PG didn’t insure himself against the risk of Markov not being back by signing Wiz (yeah he was expensive) and then trading him at the deadline to a contender and paying for it by buying out Gomez (in theory, not sure how the cap it works there, but it’s been done).

      If PG can duplicate the Cole and Bourque deals while unloading expensive veterans (and damn it that Gionta is untradeable while injured) and we have 2 more guys who are tough AND can score 20-30 – AND Markov actually comes back… we might be somewhere. But he had better not give up any high picks or it’s going to be pitchforks and torches at the Bell Center.

  22. Chris says:

    There is so much hype and coverage surrounding professional sports these days that I often wonder if people actually can enjoy the teams they claim to follow. When every single move is analyzed 12 different ways, when every contract is studied using advanced statistics and cap hits and comparables and when every loss is laid at the feet of Players X and Y, I suspect that it becomes increasingly difficult to enjoy the victories.

    I will freely admit to the fact that I entered this season optimistic. I still didn’t think the Montreal Canadiens were quite there yet (Boston, Vancouver, San Jose, Pittsburgh (if healthy) and Washington were the teams I suspected were the legitimate contenders), but I was impressed with the improvement in forward depth and I was happy to see some of the younger kids getting a chance to shine. I was worried about the effect of losing Hamrlik, who never got enough credit here in Montreal for shouldering a heavy load on the blue line, and I was concerned about the continued drop-off in the level of Hal Gill and a sophomore slump by P.K. Subban, similar to those suffered by other hot-shot young defencemen such as Drew Doughty or Tyler Myers. The blue line was a concern, despite many pre-season assertions that the team had built an impressively deep defence corps. Short of free-agency, Montreal had to start to renew its blue-line from within, and Emelin, Diaz and Weber gave them some younger guys to take a look at, as Beaulieu, Tinordi

    I didn’t expect the Habs to fare so poorly this season, and I think most honest observers would share that sentiment. But that is the nature of the beast. Other than San Jose, Detroit, Vancouver and, to a lesser extent, Philadelphia and Boston, there are no teams that perenially ride near the top of the standings. For a long-time, Montreal had a stranglehold on the best managers and coaches and reaped the successes. Now, other franchises discovered the best managers and coaches and get to enjoy their ride at the top for a while. It could not have been very fun to be a fan of most other NHL teams in the 1960′s or 1970′s, either. :)

    Anybody who pines for the “good old days” of the Montreal Canadiens should probably stop following hockey. That era, when a team could put together a collection of unparalleled stars and dominate the NHL in perpetuity, is over. There isn’t a single team in the NHL whose success comes even remotely close to the 1970′s Montreal Canadiens or 1980′s New York Islanders or Edmonton Oilers. And there likely never will be so long as the team has both an entry draft and a hard salary cap.

    To those that suggest that the Habs tank, I would argue that that is the ultimate insult to a fan base. When you ask fans to shell out hundreds of dollars per ticket to fill the largest arena in the NHL, you had better as an organization be doing all you can to ensure that your team is as competitive as possible each season. The teams that have tanked are generally the teams who did not have a fan base remaining to alienate. Consider:

    One of the “Original 6″ franchises and one of the most intimidating rinks for visiting teams in the 1990′s, the Chicago Blackhawks saw their average attendance fall as low as 12,727 (62.1% of capacity) as recently as 2006-07 as they were in the midst of their re-building that lasted a decade.

    The Pittsburgh Penguins were bankrupt and saw their average attendance fall to a league-worst 11,877 in 2003-04. Rumours abounded of that franchise being sold and moved out of the market.

    The Washington Capitals fell as low as 13,905 in 2005-06, despite that being the debut season of one of the most talented and exciting players to emerge in a generation, Alexander Ovechkin.

    So many of the arguments surrounding the Montreal Canadiens describe the team as a fundamental part of the cultural fabric of the city of Montreal and province of Quebec. We talk of the class of the franchise and its history. How can those same people then turn around and ask those fans to support a team that is intentionally trying not to win games? Are we really suggesting that the Habs adopt such a self-destructive team-building philosophy that has been repeatedly shown to drive fans away?

    No, the Montreal Canadiens should not and can not tank. They have a die-hard fan base, both those that watch the games live in person and those that live throughout the world but buy special cable packages to follow the games and buy Montreal Canadiens merchandise and invest a sometimes unhealthy amount of time in their chosen team, that deserves far, far better than the most cynical ploy in professional sports. The Montreal Canadiens MUST make every effort to make the playoffs each year, because that is their job as executives, as coaches and as players.

    Within that context, mistakes will be made, as is the case for every NHL team that doesn’t quite match its results to the expectations of its management team or fans. Were the Alex Tanguay and Georges Laraque acquisitions good moves in retrospect? Probably not. But I simply find it incredulous that so many fans look back at these moves and criticize them so caustically today. Who could possibly know that the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens, loaded with all those young players that seemed to still be developing, were not on the cusp of something special after a season in which they were in the top-5 in scoring for the first time in over a decade? The additions in that off-season (Robert Lang, Alex Tanguay and Georges Laraque) were all good acquisitions within the context that they were made. Lang gave the team a veteran center with size and skill, Tanguay had shown in Colorado that he could excel as a complimentary player and Laraque was acquired to fill the perceived need for toughness on the Habs roster. On paper, good moves. On the ice, things didn’t work out and the team was ultimately blown up after a humbling playoff loss.

    That we’re going through another hiccup this season is not particularly surprising. The team was re-built and, generally, met or exceeded expectations; a trip to the conference finals and a tough seven-game loss to the eventual Stanley Cup champions is not exactly a record to be ashamed of, except here in Montreal where fans have become spoiled on past successes that, in many cases, they never actually viewed for themselves.

    I’m intending to spend the rest of the season enjoying the development of the young Habs players like Eller, Emelin, Diaz, Desharnais and Pacioretty while hoping that next season is a better one for the team. Like many, I feel this season is almost certainly a lost cause and the team should strongly consider making some transactions that secure a return on current assets that don’t fit into the team’s future plans. That being said, I don’t foresee a firesale because I think the list of playes that don’t fit into the team’s future plans (Gill, potentially Gomez, maybe Kostitsyn and Moen given their pending UFA status) is not particularly long.

    Sports are intended to be an entertaining outlet from the drudgery of everyday life. If it isn’t fun anymore, people should find something else that they do enjoy and come back next season when everybody starts with a fresh slate.

  23. Mattyleg says:

    If I were GM (and I am, in a way), I would trade a number of poorly-performing fans for some other, more effective fans.

    Talk about not doing their job properly:
    - they’re not supporting the team in difficult positions
    - they are not making the easy play of chanting to rally the team, but rather taking the more difficult and complicated approach of singing exultantly when we have a one-goal lead
    - they are getting into off-ice altercations with players, claiming that they know what is going on in the dressing-room
    - they are actively adding to the team’s lack of confidence by booing them

    All these points considered, it is my duty (and it IS a business move, after all) to trade some of these underperforming fans to places where their contributions would be more effective, like Nashville or Carolina. Adding complaining fans with false senses of entitlement to the crowds at these arenas will ensure that these franchises are moved to more effective markets such as Quebec City or Hamilton.

    In exchange, any fan who is willing to pay money to watch teams play in those arenas are more than good enough to come to Montreal.

    Yours, etc,
    GMattyleg

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • DorvalTony says:

      Move to Toronto where they enjoy losing.

    • jedimyrmidon says:

      Not sure if you’re being serious or not, but I think everyone can agree that the fans populating the Bell Centre can have a measurable effect on the performance of their team. I realize that people pay their hard-earned money to see a good performance, but, entertainment factor notwithstanding, the Habs are clearly going through a bad season in many, many ways. I also see how past iterations of the team lead people to expect greatness from them as well. However, when mired in a slump, mercilessly booing the team night after night can only have a detrimental effect on the players: I’m sure the players know they’re playing poorly by now. If the team were a strong team, booing them might provide extra motivation and a boost to do better next time – positive reinforcement. But when in a prolonged slump, I can’t help but think it’s like kicking the team when they’re down, which cannot possibly have any good effects whatsoever, and can only make things worse.

      • Mattyleg says:

        I agree.
        If you don’t like what you’re seeing, perhaps you shouldn’t go to the game. if people go to the game in the hopes of seeing a team who is playing badly turn things around, maybe they shouldn’t be so disappointed when the team doesn’t.

        They should probably boo themselves instead for having unrealistic hopes. Maybe they are! Maybe we’re all misinterpreting it!
        “Boo to me! I’m a fool! Boooo!”

        —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • LA Loyalist says:

      Oh Jeez.

      Do you own any shares in any companies? Apple, Nortel, Research in Motion, Disney?

      Actually Nortel is a WONDERFUL example, circling the round file as it is.

      Are you happy that management screwed up and didn’t maximize shareholder value?

      Yeah, us the poor slobs that buy the jerseys and the tickets and the $10 beers.

      WE are holding the players and the management and the ownership responsible, and that is our RIGHT because we’ve paid for it.

      Will it be effective? Who knows? I doubt it. But it’s our inalienable right.

      **insults retracted, blood cooled.

      • jedimyrmidon says:

        Never said anything about taking your rights away. I just commenting that the players on the team probably understand the message. As for management, who knows?

        I was just thinking that once the fans got the message across to the players (once again, management would be another issue), whether it’s better to leave it be and try to help the team by not booing them, or continue and put them down more. Again, this is all with respect to the players on the team who are on the ice at the time.

      • Mattyleg says:

        Whew!

        Looks like everyone on here is having a sense of humour failure.

        I’m not trying to take anything away from you. You can have everything you’ve always had. Don’t panic. Your rights (or what you consider to be your rights) are intact. This is a post on a hockey forum, not a bill in the House of Commons.

        I’ve bought tickets, and I’ve gone to games and drunk expensive beer. I don’t think that those things are passes to act disrespectfully or to make ‘demands’.

        Showing frustration and anger towards a team or their management can be done in much more effective ways than yelling ‘boo’ at them during a game, in my opinion. How do you think that makes someone like Erik Cole feel, who always plays hard, and never gives up? You can’t say he doens’t hear it, or that he says “that’s not for me, I’ll just ignore it.” Now he knows that he has to work that much harder to motivate the players who are struggling with confidence because it’s not only 25 or so players on the other team that are against them now, but them plus 21,000 or so.

        —Hope Springs Eternal—

        • LA Loyalist says:

          I’m sorry, I apologize and retract the aggressive and insulting tone (in fact, I’ll edit it), but my blood boils when someone implies that our job as fans is to be cheering zombies, which is why I made the shareholder analogy.

          Actually, if we want something more positive and direct – let’s each buy a share (or whatever the minimum is) of Molson stock, then we can go to the annual shareholders meeting (wearing jerseys) and make it very clear that we are not happy. Can you imagine even a hundred people showing up in jerseys? :-)

  24. Marcusman says:

    I think the whole season went wrong right out of camp. They should of kept Gallagher up, he was the best player in camp and Pulashj? was horrible for us.. complete deadwood. Gallagher’s presence in the room would of changed the story from Mr. Markov’s absence or Subban’s swagger to hot rookie who doesn’t know any better.

    having worked in the entertainment bizz for the last 20 years this was the first season in forever that I could sit down and follow. I got RDS though my Halifax cable subscriber…I’ve booked mark website that i didn’t even knew existed. I was truly looking for to a run this year.

    • JIMVINNY says:

      Gallagher couldn’t put the puck in the net. How could he possibly have been the best player in camp?

      • DorvalTony says:

        Wtf? LOL! One of the three or four best in camp, along with Beaulieu. Best on Team Canada.

        ——————————————————————
        ”First of all, you have to have continuity if you are to have success,” Pollock told the New York Times. ”I think it gets the manager and the players to become more attached to each other.” – Sam Pollock

        • Kooch7800 says:

          Tony, I have to agree with Jim. How many goals did Gallagher have in the Pre season….and you have to remember that is pre-season which is easier than a reg season game.

          Effort can only take you so far.

          I hope Gallagher can be an NHLer he has to prove he can do it in the AHL first.

          I also don’t think he was the best on Team Canada either….he was good but Stone was the best. There was also 4 ahead of him on Team Canada in points and he was tied with two other Canadians with 6 points (tied for 18th with about 15 other guys)

      • Marcusman says:

        He hit 6 or 7 posts..he was on the puck every shift…he deserved to stay with the club.

    • LA Loyalist says:

      Marcus Aurelius, man, whether Gallagher was or is Samsonov or Crosby is not the point — we HAVE to stop rushing up these young kids who are NOT NHL ready (maybe one in 20 is, but they are the exception).

      Price, Eller, Latendresse, Pouliot… the list is LONG of guys who we majorly screwed up by not letting them cook and mature. Look what Boston did to Joe Thornton, who, good as he is, is useless in the playoffs because he can’t handle pressure.

      The positive example I like to use is Larry Robinson, who, if you read his memoir AND Dryden’s book, was CAREFULLY nurtured in Nova Scotia and here and allowed to grow into his body and learn the pro game.

      That’s good management, not panicking and grabbing kids and throwing them to the wolves.

  25. SmartDog says:

    BOYCOTT MOLSON

    In the 90′s, I watched Molson totally mess up this team with lazy or just plain ignorant management. While Molson played their “I am Canadian” commercials, they were screwing up our team big time. The hypocrisy made me so angry I wanted to start a ‘Boycott Molson’ campaign.. Then it was out, they were looking for a buyer and George came along. Relieved I moved on. Now Molson is back, and while everyone watches in awe as the bumbling Gauthier stays while others fall, Molson is sitting back smoking cigars and writing letters about the importance of French (so as not to piss off any Francophone beer drinkers). Boycott Molson, their stinking management, and their stinking beer!!!! It’s the only way to wake up Geoff M to the fact that neither he nor PG are the geniuses they think they are.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  26. kerrgte says:

    Trade who? Of this team, only Cole could be considered a vital missing player to a team that’s playoff bound. And if he traded Cole, Pierre wouldn’t last another day.

    Maybe he could trade draft picks. But that’s about it.

    So many opportunities have been piddled away.

    • mrhabby says:

      hmm…

      cammy went to Calgary…there all in.
      gill..will surely go given his experience.
      Moen..will surely draw lots of interest given size and experience.
      AK…would be intriguing for teams looking for a big body.
      Kaberle..ya never know.

  27. Mattyleg says:

    It’s like a horse walking into a bar around here!
    Why the long faces?

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  28. christophor says:

    I was afraid to say this when Price was everyone’s hero but people underestimate the link between goalie performance and team quality (wrt to Halak, Price, and all goalies). When people (fans, analysts) say a goalie carries a team, they usually miss the subtler mechanics of that team’s play that helps the goalie become successful and helps the team win. When people (and analysts) say a goalie’s performance is the reason a team is suffering, they usually miss how much the team sucks and how much its suckitude would drag down any goalie’s stats.

    This is *usually* the case. Some goalies are way better than others and they’re important. But people, especially in Montreal (what and understatement), have an unsubstantiated goalie fetish.

    The team gets shut out and the first person (and only person) criticized is the goalie. Sure, he deserves criticism, but the fact that all attention is on him is sign of an intense obsession. It’s like setting out to teach your kid how to fish but never getting beyond showing him how to cast. The commentariat has blinders on.

    • Seps says:

      I absolutely agree. A team like Boston puts any goalie in net and they automatically put up .940 SV% numbers why? Because they have a big team that wins the battles in front of their own net, all the goalie has to do is stop the original shot and the team takes care of the rest. Like put a guy like Kippur there he’ll win Vezina after Vezina.

      #failfornail

    • tophab says:

      boston has allowed 1368 shots against and 89 goals.
      montreal has allowed 1296 shots against and 126 goals.
      less shots against =better defense.more goals against =crappy goaltending.if we had a good goalie we could be right at the top of the standings.like boston.

      • jedimyrmidon says:

        Another way to see it would be using last year as an example. You can let in more shots against a goalie, but they could be low quality ones from the perimeter where the goalie can see them. This year, they could be allowing fewer shots, but letting more dangerous ones through (there have been so many defensive breakdowns this year), resulting in more goals.

  29. jedimyrmidon says:

    Good day folks,
    Just signed up to HIO after having been a reader for a while. A little bit about myself: I ‘m a relatively new Habs fan, having only started to follow the team after the 2010 Winter Olympics (which really piqued my interest in hockey), and witnessed the run to the Eastern Conference finals and its effects on the city of Montreal. So even though I am not nearly as knowledgeable as many people here who have been fans for ages, I hope to still have some good discussions.

  30. SmartDog says:

    This idea that Gauthier is traveling around to scout other teams PISSES ME OFF!!!! Gauthier the GENIUS pro scout that brought us Scott Gomez. YESSSS!!! Send that MAN ON THE ROAD!!!

    It’s freakin’ arrogant, and just plain stupid. It suggests that he thinks he can see IN ONE GAME something that his scouts, stats, watching tapes, and conversations can’t tell him. So he hits on one good or bad game and he’s suddenly a genious about a guy. Pfffftttt.

    Molson is an idiot for letting this guy make any more changes and go on this fishing expedition. He’s not going to be any more informed, but he will be more confident in his own genius (if that’s possible).

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • avatar_58 says:

      Settle down Beavis – every GM does it

      • SmartDog says:

        It’s not that ‘everyone does it’. It’s WHY NOW?

        A month ago he comes to the press and says “we need more size and toughness on this team”. Like it’s an epiphany. NOW he’s suddenly taking trading seriously. Another epiphany.

        What pisses me off is a) I don’t trust him to make changes and b) this sudden new energy like he’s going to save the day makes me wretch. He’s so out to lunch, going to see players isn’t going to improve his judgement. I repeat – the man who brought us Scott Gomez as a first line $7 million center.

        ————————————-
        Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • habstrinifan says:

      I agree! And what was he doing before eh? he suddenly is ‘networking’. And please dont any of his defenders chime in with “how do we know what he was doing before?”. If PG had been this active before we would have all known about it. His style was to wake up ‘suddenly’ and withour due dilgence, ‘fix a leak…. Kaberle?

  31. habstrinifan says:

    Thank you fans in Montreal for showing your displeasure by staying away from Brossard and leaving games early. Hopefully you also stop buying beer etc. Every effffing person in this management group deserves your scorn. You are doing the right thing. Management had the entire summer and the whole darn season to wake up. But they USED us. Way to go fans in the city.

  32. mrhabby says:

    Tyler Myers for Subban…any comments…lol

  33. habstrinifan says:

    “Gauthier is a ramblin’ man!” Yeah suddenly he is ‘networking’. STOP HIM somebody please. This desperate man is gonna screw this team up real good.

  34. habstrinifan says:

    Good morning fellow die-hard sufferers. Good morning G-MAN!

    I am just emerging from the depression-after-loss-2. Had to come up for fresh air. The losses against Tampa and Florida hit me hard. But this last loss knocked me out real goooooooood. There is no way I can muster up any post-win-euphoria and optimism henceforth. It’s time to just sit back and watch the game because I am a fan but dont get carried away about playoffs hopes (NIL) OR any player’s performance on any one night. I am totally lost re this team. I wouldnt know what to do with it if I were a GM… except fire the GM and straighten out the coachig scenario with a ‘long haul’ appointment.

    I wanted to answer your post G-MAN, if you dont mind. Where you obviously were ‘defending’ PG’s lack of casual communication to the fans using the media. Your line read “PG isnt a media whore”. I havent read the posts yet but this stood out because of a recent phenomenon. JM is now ALL OVER the airwaves/media. Geez he even went on with Tony Marinaro, didnt he.. or someone on TSN990.
    I refused to listen. Suddenly he is talking. While on the job he stuck with PG’s approach. “I don’t need to talk to you guys or explain or just plain converse with the public. I am ?????”.
    No PG isnt a media whore and doesnt need to be but even if he was using them as ‘think aloud’ sessions, he should be more forthcoming. Maybe if he had gone on radio and ‘heard’ himself give reasons and explanations for saddling the team with Kaberle’s contract, he would have had second thought.
    To hell with JM who wants me to suddenly listen to what he has to say. And soon I hope, it will be to hell with PG.

    My post is NOT really taking issue with yours G-MAN. The line just popped up on my screen and brought to mind the whole spate of JM sightings lately.

    • G-Man says:

      Good morning, trini. I was simply comparing PG to Burke. Gms will always deliver their spin while addressing the media. Generally, the answers to most reporters’ questions answer themselves.
      These days, while many use the media for self-aggrandizement, PG doesn’t feel obligated to talk to them without good reason. We may not like his answers or reasoning, but he is who he is, and that’s no Burke.

  35. PeterStone says:

    ah, i love a PG debate. My opinion, he hasnt been great, but he hasnt been awful.

    His mistakes ..
    -Kaberle, was a massive mistake.
    -Gomez , forget the fact he scouted him when we traded for him, but the fact that Gomez wasnt sent to Switzerland on july 1, 2011, was a massive mistake. We paid him to do nothing, and we could have paid him to do nothing in the Swiss A league.
    -Markov was a mistake as well. Yes, I cant argue with signing him, since he’s difficult to replace, BUT, he should have been more aware of the knee situation and had a plan B on July 1. Had Gomez been in the Swiss A league then, he would have had the $ to address it then.
    - All the coaches fired … perry pearn 2 hours before a game. C’mon. JM.
    - kaberle .. such a big mistake, i had to mention it again.

    Decent moves
    - I respect a GM who identifies someone they want , i.e moving up to get Tinordi, and makes the move to get him.
    - Wiz last year .. though, I dont understand why he only got a 5th for his rights.
    -Eller for Halak was a good move. Still not sold on Eller, BUT, i was never a big Halak fan either, so, its a wash to me.

    We’ll see what he does in the next 4 weeks and that will give us all a clear indication if he is worth keeping around. I personally would like to see some stability in this franchise. Bob Gainey has turned this organization into a 3 ring circus.

  36. krob1000 says:

    The PP…why does Kaberle play the left point? I know Markov did but we always had a left hand BOmb there when he played. With a Left hand on the lfet point and a righty on the right we have no one timer…Kaberle made his name feeding Mccabe,he also fed Chara. I would prefer a rioght and left playing their oppsoite sides for one timers on the pp….if not then go 2 righties or two lefties…but without the oen time threat….it causes us to lose a fraction of a second and gets to he heart of Pleks commetns about the puck not moving fast enough on the pp. If the threat of a quick shot is not alwasy there we get these ridiculously predictable one and outs….usually the one is blocked. Unlike many I do beleive Kaberle iw very capable at the point …but not when his biggest weapon…his decision making…is taken away by the lack of people in a shooting istuation…what good does his ability tohesitate and pass do it when he makes the pass the guy has to turn , aim and then shoot into a shinpad???

    Muller also used to activate the d and have them occasionally streak down…it rarely worked butit did keep the pk guys looking over the shoulders and worried…it created space and lanes and forced movement on our part too. Puck movement is a huge issue but so too is player movement….5 guys moving is hard to defend by four guys…..and the further into a pp you can go doing this the more worn down the pk becomes and lanes open…why did we change our pp? The same system worked regardless of who played it before….

  37. DorvalTony says:

    Halak wins again. Another shutout. Leaps into 6th place in the league. http://blues.nhl.com/club/recap.htm?id=2011020690&navid=DL|STL|home

    ——————————————————————
    ”First of all, you have to have continuity if you are to have success,” Pollock told the New York Times. ”I think it gets the manager and the players to become more attached to each other.” – Sam Pollock

    • PureGuava says:

      What a beaut! Couldn’t play here though – that would mess with their plans for Saint Carey.

    • ont fan says:

      Goalies ..always about goalies..WE CAN’T SCORE ANY GOALS..and haven’t for 2 decades

    • Seps says:

      Oh a killer 15 save performance. Do you realize almost all the shots are from the outside and he hasn’t faced more than 22 shots in his last like 3 or 4 starts?

      #failfornail

      • SteverenO says:

        How many shots did Carey face last game against the Caps?

        Its one thing to “like” your goalie, and no team will win consistently of they don’t score, `but every now and them you expect your goalie to shut down the other team at least until your side can score one or two. At the very least you hope that he wont be nonchalant on a shoot in and be behind his own net when the other teams scores a goal early in the game.

        In Halak’s time in Montreal he outplayed Price, there is no question about that . he wasn`t just a little bit better, he was MUCH better. The brass did everything they could to keep Price as the number one guy, but eventually it was just too obvious, we had a better chance to win when Halak was in the nets.

        How Halak would do with this years team and how Price would do with St.Louis is nothing but speculation.

        The objective is to get the most out your resources. If Price could have gotten us Oshie or Backes and Pietrangelo, does anyone believe that we would be worse off?

        The argument here is always on a better team Price would be amazing. The question should have been would you rather have a better team and Halak, or a worse team and Price?

        I, for one, am tired of only winning games when our goalie is the number one star. There is no shortage of capable goaltenders, lets get a decent team together and we can always find a goalie.

        regards,

        Steve O.
        Qlik View – Data Discovery.
        Every team needs it- Every coach needs it.
        Every fan needs it!

        http://litcosys.ca/QV_videos.html

  38. RetroMikey says:

    I am content if we rebuild and tank this pathetic team we have which Bobby Gainey totally ripped it to shreds and the front office management we have running this club in the past with Boivin as well.
    I am still not happy with the way Halak was treated and being shipped to St. Louis for a goalie we have now in Price who in my opinion, is questionable whether he can perform under pressure in a clutch game or playoff series.
    As for Eller, has he really improved down the stretch? Is his TOI increasing and is he that big skilled CMan Gauthier is marketing to everybody? The jury is out on him. I believe Gauthier thinks he is a genius for keeping Eller in Montreal where in fact, he should be in Hamilton to gain valuable ice time and mentored under Clement Jodouin there.
    As for Markov, I would have been content to see the Russian sign for some other team and no surprise he will not be back this season and we are just throwing money out on a player who is past his prime in my opinion when he comes back and will not be the same player on the ice.
    So let’s come to reality that our Habs have really gone downhill and there is no way we can recover unless we tank and start trading players like Plekanec, Gill, Weber, Moen, and others for prospects and draft picks. Supposed to be a very good NHL draft in June.
    Funny how I predicted misery for this club from last season and many fans laughed at me and now most of them are seeing the day of light.

    “We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “

  39. HabFanSince72 says:

    In La Presse yesterday Ronald King refers to the Moneyball approach in baseball – and asks if anyone is applying it to hockey.

    Baseball has always been the favourite sports of geeks and stats-heads, but hockey isn’t exactly known for its intellectuals.

    Is there any team using moneypuck ideas in the NHL?


    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • 24 Cups says:

      HFS72 – The new team over at EOTP run their entire site based on this exact notion. It’s not everybody’s cup of tea (and certainly has it’s limitations) but it does bring another aspect into the analysis of the sport.

    • AndyF says:

      Alan Ryder of hockeyanalytics.com would be the perfect consultant to guide the Habs through the next few years of rebuilding.

      Honestly, I can’t imagine why the Habs are not using consultants like him or, for that matter, a team of personal life coaches for its young athletes. All those expenses are not counted against the cap. Those costs are the only true advantage that being in a cash-cow market like Montreal affords you in the NHL.

      http://andyfroncioni.com

  40. LA Loyalist says:

    Even I thought this debate was dead, but when Price makes 2 saves on 4 shots while Halak gets 2 shutouts in a row…

    How come the Blues can change coaches and turn it around in 1 season, and we can’t do it in what? Year 3 of the Bob “The Builder” Rebuild…

    I think it is time for the “Night of the Long Knives”.

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      The Blues are having a good run, but let’s wait and see.

      Hockey like all sports is also a game of luck. Luck with injuries, bounces, referee calls or non-calls, player slumps, chemistry etc …

      I’m happy to say the Nucks, Wings and Hawks are cup challengers. The Blues? Not so sure yet.


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Clearly it is all coaching, and the assembled talent has no impact, especially things like getting David Perron back from concussion after missing essentially a year.

  41. price365 says:

    I’ll be surprised if we see anymore trades. management pretty much know we’re not gonna make the playoffs. something may happen at trade deadline February other than that it’ll be a summer rebuild.
    hockey is not like it use to be. you have to spend a lot of money to build a stanley cup team. after you win you have to tear it down. makes a person lose interest.

  42. WindsorHab-10 says:

    Any chance we can decline a penalty?

    Sad to say but we’re more dangerous shorthanded than we are on the pp.

  43. shiram says:

    Gauthier tried to address the need for a strong 4th line center, I guess everyone forgets about Blair Betts, too bad Philly tried to trade him hurt.
    Still he could have retained Halpern, good PK guy, strong on the draw, can chip in with some scoring too, he seems to be doing well with the Caps.

  44. Eric Danis says:

    wow i knew the bruins were a bunch of babies but man Stewart really shows what a Bruin really is, damn i hate them so bad, there nothing but a bunch of bums!!!!

    go habs go!!!

  45. Eric Danis says:

    alright I know everybody is looking so glum and bum about the season, but we have to keep it in perspective:

    1: Conneyworth is as much a rookie in the NHL as a head coach as Nugent hopkins is a player, it takes time to implment a system and have it firing on all cylinders.

    2: As a true die hard Habs fan i can see what potential there is in getting that big concession player come draft day. its not by going to the bell centre and booing the gomez and gionta and who ever for that matter that make you a habs fan. its ye trying to understand the game a little and realize that sometimes mistakes happen and thats how we learn from them, ie management. ofcourse it hurts to see them lose and its frustrating to see guys work hard and not get bounces, but supporting them non the less is what counts.

    3: those who cannot understand the second point i made are not habs fans or hockey fans for that matter, you guys are losers that have nothing better to do than go to the bell centre and yell out stupid things like put “put Budaj back in” or this ones a good one “tes mieux de jouer come kovalev si tu vas mettre le 27″, when i hered this i could only imagine how much hockey knowledge this Dumb A** really had. i bet he doesnt even know who wore the shirt before kovalev, what an ignoramus.

    anyways the point is, this is hockey, if we want to retain the right to say that we have the best and most knowledgable fan base, we need to suck it all up and stand by the team in its good and BAD times.

  46. kerrgte says:

    Losing Faith? An understatement.

    Watching this patchwork team perform is painful.

    Mindless off-season moves.

    Where’s Halpern and Moore? – valuable and experienced defensive forwards. Both of ‘em loved it in Montreal – they were only going to get better and mentor the younger players. And no replacements for them.

    Where’s Hamrlik? Last season’s heart and soul on the blue line – he’s -2 in 41 games with Washington this year. Gorges is good but he’s too small. Gill is older and even slower. This year’s defensive group is a joke, anchored by a slick but not punishing sophomore. Didn’t anybody tell you Pierre that a punishing blueline is where it all starts?

    Eric Cole. Thank goodness you got one right.

    Markov? The mismanagement in this case has been and will be a very costly joke. LTIR may mitigate this foolishness.

    Price – the chosen one. So much faith put in him. Has it materialized?

    Darche – a pathetic attempt at hiring a local boy.
    Totally talent-free.

    Kaberle? So slick and smooth when on the offensive. Nothing on the defensive end.

    Gomez? How many points? Speaks for itself, doesn’t it.

    Gionta – the smartest player in the league. Management just isn’t smart enough to get him what he needs.

    Thanks for the soft team, Pierre.

    Geoff, replace this guy and improve the team. Recruit Burke, he’ll make things happen.

    • bleedhabs81 says:

      Isn’t it funny (and I am not saying you were part of it) how the majority of people said Hammer was old and shouldn’t be brought back…

      and then they pissed and moaned when they heard he was given an offer…

      Now, I see almost daily references to how PG screwed up by not signing the Hamrlik…. fickle we are.

  47. Hobie Hansen says:

    I was trying to come on and write something with a positive spin but it doesn’t look good for the next season and a half at the minimum guys.

    We just don’t have enough. Markov and Gomez are being paid to be our two best players, our stars, and they’re delivering ZERO! And that will probably not change.

    Those two guys, for that much money, should be delivering like Lidstom and Datsyuk or other superstar or at least star players for the Canadiens.

    You have to think the Habs will rid themselves of Gomez, one way or another, over the summer. And they can figure out something to do with Markov as well. Maybe Markov comes back next year but if he doesn’t they’ll at least have his money to spend if he is on LTIR or whatever.

    The problem begins with the UFA pool this year. There isn’t a heck of a lot available. I think Ryan Suter would answer a lot of problems on the Habs blue line but they’re talking $6 mill a year for 4/5 years for the guy. I dunno but that smells of what Calgary is stuck with in Jay Bouwmeester. And we know what we are stuck with.

    The most logical thing to do is sell whatever we can this year because the option to retool quickly for next season just isn’t there.

    We’re basically short two star players guys and we won’t be replacing them this summer!

    So we suffer next year and hopefully we’ve picked up some draft picks and younger players in the process. The following summer (2014) the UFA pool will be much deeper. We make a splash then.

    Also at that time, Gallagher, Bealieu and Tinordi should all have a season (in Hamilton) under their belts.

    Be patient the next 1 1/2 boys because we’re not going to have a great team.

    • krob1000 says:

      I disagree…I think this years team shoud have been a playoff team. As bad as one could have possibly drawn things up at the beginning of the season the actual season ahs been worse. Like you said 0 goals and only a handful of points out of your top dman and highest paid forward…unimaginable. Gio pretty well missng all season? Cammi being so bad? PK so erratic? the off ice activites? the slowly becoming apparent dressing room issues? I think Gill is going to go and think he is another one that while his intentions are great his off cie respect combined with his stifling style are likely part of the problem…maybe not likely but I see it that way anyway.
      The only move that I don’t like that everyone else does is Gorges for 4 million for 6 years…that to me was not a great move. I respect eerything Gorges and Gill do but with our group of current adn up and coming offensivee dmen with little phsyicality (Subban, Kaberle, Markov, Weber, Beaulieu, Diaz)

      I like that Gorges and Ememlin are both stay at home guys who can skate witht eh puck occasionally and are more mobile than a Gill…but we still need one mean guy and I would have argued two. Emelin is that guy with the hitting but we need an “attitude” in front of our net after the play..

      • PeterStone says:

        totally agree. This team was better on paper than it played. They underperformed all year, for what reason I dont know, but clearly, some of the guys here arent(werent) true professionals, no matter how they portrayed themselves in the press.

      • Forum Dog says:

        Yep, I agree with this. If Markov plays, Gionta stays healthy and in the room, and Cammalleri produces like he can, this team is playoff worthy. That is a lot of ifs, I know, but no team can have its core players either be hurt or underperform and be successful. Further, guys who needed to step up have not (i.e. Plekanec, Kostitsyn).

        I was also not sure about the Gorges signing at first, but if you want leadership, he’s your man. The point about a soft defence is bang-on though. It is an area that needs some real size and sandpaper, and the problem is that nearly all the current players (save for Gill) will almost certainly be back next year. Status quo on D is no good for this team’s development. Teams need to know that if they come hard at Montreal’s goal, their gonna take some real abuse in return. A player who is willing to drop the mitts is an absolute priority, though I won’t hold my breath.

        I don’t like to speculate about trades too much, but I think that Montreal needs to address the centre position (someone with skill who can actually win faceoffs – Paul Stastny?), and obtain a physical deterrent for the D-unit. If it costs some good players (i.e. Plekanec or Subban) to upgrade at these positions, I wouldn’t cry about it.

  48. lBUSYl says:

    It really looks like the guy in Stubbs article, is not wearing any pants.

    • krob1000 says:

      I like the Habs flag…it looks like the really eager girl with the face paint has a broken Habs heart ….the Habs symbol is being pulled in three directions….too true.

  49. Cam_1 says:

    The pic of the two girls alone makes me prouder to be a Habs fan, not sure about the faith…but still a fan forever non the less…and a proud fan…maybe not this year…but we will rise again..you can count on it !

  50. 24 Cups says:

    HF72 (re your post below)

    5. You mentioned that Kaberle’s cap hit wasn’t that bad. Well I think 4.25M a year is a bit much for a guy who can’t play in the top two groupings. In fact, his play (along with others) has dictated we go to a seven man rotation on defense. He’s another expensive band-aid to make up for our lack of a true PP quarterback.

    7. The Markov signing is viewed as ‘just one of those things’. Bad luck. No blame on anyone’s part.

    I’m really beginning to wonder about that seeing that he will not have played during the first 50 games of this season. Hell, he can’t even skake yet on a daily basis. Was this a strategic blunder by Mr. Gauthier? Are the Hab doctors incompetent? Did Markov lie about the extent of his injury? Did his agent (Meehan?), withhold information so as to get a long term deal? Did no one think to offer Markov an under the table deal like the team did with Gorges? I’m beginning to think that something really stinks here. And for those who respond with the notion that it’s OK because we get LTIR cap relief…..

    This point also relates back to Kaberle. His acquistion is justified by stating he is an insurance policy just in case Markov can’t return. The irony that drips from that rationalization is more than I can bare. I realize that a negative times a negative equals a positive but give me a break.

    9. Tinordi. I think you’re exaggerating here a bit to prove your point (Isn’t that the way on HI/O? Everyone is guilt of that fault except me:-) Montreal gave up their 2nd round pick to move from 27th spot to 22nd in order to take Tinordi. It’s tough to know how a player such as this will develop, seeing that oversized defensemen take more time to mature. Let’s just say he’s a decent prospect/project who probably ranks third behind Leblanc and Beaulieu on the Hab depth chart. Some might have him 4th behind Gallagher but it’s tough to compare Dmen nd forwards.

    As for him now being ranked 6th in his draft class, that’s a real big stretch. There are certain players who are a slam dunk when it comes to being ahead of Tinordi. They are: Hall, Seguin, Johansen, Connolly, Skinner, Granlund and Fowler. Then there is another grouping where you could say they are as good if not better than Tinordi (in terms of potential). They are: Gudbranson,
    Niederreiter, Burmistrov, Campbell, Gormley, Schwartz and Kuznetsov.

    Realistically, I think it’s fair to say that Mr. Gauthier traded a 2nd rounder (a lower pick also came back from Phoenix) to grab a player in the middle of the pack when we originally held the 27th spot. I’m find with that move but let’s not make it more than it truly is.

    • TomNickle says:

      Tinordi is viewed quite widely as the best prospect on defense out of that draft now because of his upside.

      He showed at the WJHC that he has worked very hard on puck control, passing and lateral movement. He was probably the best defenseman in that tournament.

      • 24 Cups says:

        He wasn’t talking about Dmen, he was talking about overall prospects. I also feel your assessment is a bit over the top.

        Regardless, I can’t see Tinordi as being the 6th best player in the 2010 draft.

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      “Not that bad” and “a bit much” are kind of the same thing aren’t they?


      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • JF says:

      Steve – I agree about the Markov deal. It’s hard to see how the medical staff could have been so completely wrong about him. And it’s clear that we’re not being told the truth even now. Markov had arthroscopic surgery at the beginning of December, something that normally requires about a three-week recovery period. He won’t even be skating alone until after the All-star break, if then. That’s two months for a simple procedure. There has to be something still wrong that we’re not being told about.

      If there was any uncertainty about Markov’s recovery during the summer, the contract was a huge blunder; at best, Markov should have been signed to the kind of one-year wait-and-see deal that Gorges got.

      I’m also beginning to agree about the Kaberle deal. I wasn’t opposed to it at the time, and in the few games before Jacques Martin was fired, Kaberle seemed to be getting the powerplay going. But that isn’t happening any more. In fact, the powerplay is worse under Cunneyworth than it was under JM. It never even looks dangerous any more. So Kaberle is just another puck-moving defenceman who is not good in his own end; 4.25 million is too much for a guy like that, and the idea of Kaberle as an insurance policy for Markov is simply laughable.

  51. HabFanSince72 says:

    Faith is a fine invention
    For people who see -
    But a microscope is prudent
    In an emergency.

    - Emily Dickinson


    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  52. John Q Public says:

    Tweet tweet.
    Losing faith implies all you had was faith.
    Definition: “Faith is confidence or trust in a person or entity.”

    Fans don’t have faith.
    Fans LOVE their team.

    If you are always looking for scapegoats as many have, this is the reason or that is the reason, you aren’t watching the games.

    No PP. A big problem.
    All the injuries add up thus giving rookies a lot more ice time. They make mistakes. We all do.

    People say you are pessimistic when you talk honestly talk about how crap we are. I think it is realistic to point out the true faults and as we’ve seen they are making changes. Nothing ever goes according to plan.

    1 Year with no playoffs, who cares as long as we come out better for it!

    Still waiting for some big trade…………Mutliplayer

  53. price365 says:

    as of today there’s only 5-forwards I would keep:

    Cole, Max-pac, Kostitsyn, Bourque, Gionta,

    Remainder forwards: up for sell

    • Habsbill24 says:

      Delete kostitsyn and Gionta. Neither worth keeping.

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      I don’t necessarily agree or disagree with your list but point out on the other hand that anybody is tradeable. However, we can certainly have our opinions of whom we would only trade for a very special return. I would like to keep Pleks, for example, but would expect a huge return for him if he were to be moved. Same thing with Pax and Cole. The others, not so much.

    • krob1000 says:

      The issue witht hat is that only AK is even remotely a playmaker or puck mover among that group. They are all straight up and down, gritty guys and triggermen but if the puck isn’t moving it doesn’t matter how big and fast you are…the puck moves faster than any player and we used to spread guys out and create space with puck movement which breads away from the puck movement…..it becomes a problem the other way though when guys are not getting pcuks the instant they are open, then they stop moving and individual efforts jsut don’t fly in decent hockey.

      They are obviously trying to play a simpler game but that still requires puck movers and guys who make space….Markov was a master at this both on the pp and at even strength….whebn we pass to Patches or Cole or Biourwue,etc onthe wing…a dman jsut plays them at a reasonable gap and then plays them into a dead space…they fortunately occasionally are big and strong/fast enought to still make something happen but offense occasionally needs to be created by the puck …not the individual carrying of players…we are not doing taht anymore…even on our pp as Pleks mentioned…..how often do we see a tic tac toe play anymore? hell I would settle for a Tic Tac…the puck does not move and as muich as I like the size improovemnt we need more distribution from the wings too….if they are only going to carry the puck outside, dump and chse it robs the Pleks, gOmez, Dd,etc of their ability to distribute. If they don’t have passing respected they are pretty easy to cover when they are loking to get open in a cycle/set type offense. The PP is usually where these habits are created and they trickle over…but our pp is painful….nobody moves…we look for one predicatable play….there is never multiple options, everyone in the rink can see us setting up for one shot…..our puck used to moving so quick on our pp that I was never able to read what they were going to do…Pleks/Kovy/Ak/markov and whoever as a potential triggerman…it was beautiful and so fast….i rally had no idea sometimes….no we always make the predictable play….even Cammi, Gomer, etc had puck movement the last couple of years but it seems all but dead…..and at even speed our plan seems to be get it to one guy with speed have him sail through the neutral zone ahead of everyone (so he is alone) and ry to either beat him outside or dump the puck…that is great and safe as a default mechanism but it will never create offense if that is all we do.

    • 24 Cups says:

      p365 – There isn’t one untouchable on this team. Some would say Price and I’m sure that Gainey and Mr. Gauthier would agree. But that’s about it.

    • tophab says:

      would you keep any goalies?our goalie is the reason we are where we are. we will never win with price .cracks under presure.
      we have a good team but a bad goalie .look at his stats they suck.
      trade price for whatever and draft malcom subban.

  54. martincurran55 says:

    I have “lost” faith, not “Losing.” Strip her down and rebuild it. Awful team.

  55. JUST ME says:

    It all depends on what you consider to be a fan. A real fan never loses faith. Through thick and thin he is there ,cheers for the team with the team and aches when things are tough for the team with the team.

    Blind fans keep faith but prefer to ignore that there are 30 teams in the league,go for the cup after every victory and dive low real low after every defeat.

    Nostalgic fans are from another era. They have the loudest faith hoping to see the Habs as they were in the past regardless of today`s reality. They tend to abandon ship as soon as times are tough referring to the good old days …

    Followers are neutral fans , kind of bi-polar ,would like to cheer for the team but…would do a much better job if they were hired by the Habs tomorrow. They usually have a hidden agenda,fans of other teams,frustrated by moves made in previous years and most of all experts within all experts. Tend to dissapear when things run smoothly but comes back with a bang as soon as…

    At this time of the year anti habs are the loudest ones. They know it all ,tend to act as if i told you so…Never dares to cheer but writes and hates with passion and interest. Can provide stats that proves their point and of course,only sees their angle…They listen to 82 games a year but are not fans!!!

    Young fans are the best fans. They cheer with passion and innocence . They love the team for what they provide them from day to day. Not for the 70`s ,not filled with past frustrations,not pretending they would do better than other.

    Professionnal fans like reporters and others would never dare admit to have a favourite team . They are over the croud,make the best trades,fire at will,and can provide precious analysis that never materializes. Also watch the 82 games but know better…Their professionnal attitude preventing them to cheer openly tends to make them frustrated inside and make them blow out periodically.

    I guess there are many other kind of fans and depending of wich one fits you , the level of faith is different , For some it`s a daily changing faith for other it`s a more stable and logical faith…

    I guess it makes it interesting !

  56. HardHabits says:

    Lost faith in what? That they can still make the play-offs!! Hilarious.

  57. DelawareHab says:

    OK folks, I am as disappointed and anyone with the performance of our “Habitants”, It is painful to watch them on TV and go see them live. I recall a group of MTL fans that came up to Philadelphia to watch whowere sitting two rows in front of me. My son sporting his Plekanec jersey, they all wearing various versions of the habs jersey. We faithfully supported the team as always but of course, another loss. One flyer fan in between us jaunting the visiting habs fans and the appropriate comment I heard as come back was “Hey what can we do, we hate the coach, the players are playing without any heart (OK, they actually used a more prafane version) but we have to support the team because they are our Canadiens”.

    I will always support them to the end of time but I now find myself spending time wondering how low we can go and keeping an eye in the points total of the 2000-2001 season (70 points and the lowest point total in modern era for the habs – 50 yrs). We would need a record of 15-21 through the rest of the season to avoid tying that abominal record. Whew, discouraging thoughts…..

  58. RGM says:

    I did a quick look at the numbers and in 19 of the Habs’ losses this year they have scored 2 or fewer goals. Five shutouts, a bunch with only one scored. There really has only been one line that has been consistently producing throughout the year – the other three do not inspire any fear among opposing defenders. The power play speaks for itself. Heck, even in 5 of their wins they’ve only scored 2 goals. It’s an incredible strain on the goalie to have that much pressure to not allow a goal.

    Price is the first person to say that when he posts a shutout it’s a total team effort. He gives a lot of credit to the D in front of him when he gets a win. He accepts the responsibility–often all of it–for when the team loses. It’s too bad that some of the fans can’t give him a bit more slack given the circumstances. If he lets in a bad goal at 5:32 of the first period, the team has 54:28 to get it back. On too many occasions this year, they do not. That can’t all be laid on Price. I realize that Saint Jaroslav has a bunch of 1-0 shutouts this year, and good on him for it, but the system as deployed by Hitchcock is clearly more lethal than that under Martin/Cunneyworth and their D corps has been exceptional as well.

    There’s nobody that wants to see Carey steal a bunch of games more than me. But there’s almost an expectation from some corners that he do it on a nightly basis, and it’s a very difficult standard to achieve, even for a thoroughbred.

    ———————–
    GO HABS GO! 2011-12 is probably not our year!
    Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

  59. HabinBurlington says:

    Interesting post by HF72 below regarding PG. I was not happy the day Mr. Gainey stepped down, especially when announced that PG was taking over the reins. My reasons were his association to an Ottawa Senators team, and a complete lack of knowledge of his talents. I didn’t know much about him and wanted a guy with what I thought should be an impeccable resume.

    Having said all that, I think PG has made some good moves. His timing on some has been questionable. However, in the long run I am not sure he can be the longterm GM for this team. As a wise man pointed out to me last night, his treatment of RC has been suspect at best in not being better prepared to deal with the obvious Language Assault. I also dont expect PG to become Burkelike, but there have been times where he needed to be more visible and more accountable as a GM as it related to different team matters.

    I don’t have an issue with PG caretaking his way through the remainder of this season, but I think in the long run I would prefer a stronger personality and winning Pedigree of a GM.

    Shout out to HabFan10912 and Chrisadiens, they are in Southern Ontario this weeked to watch Stephane Richer fire pucks at Glenn Healy’s head tonight and to see Louis Leblance and Avtsin light up Scrivens tomorrow. Couple of great Hab fans from the State of NewYork. They will be welcome additions to next years Summit!

    • RGM says:

      He has made some good moves, but he has also got three strikes against him, each of which should be fireable offence:
      1. Scott Gomez is still on the team.
      2. The Andrei Markov contract.
      3. The Tomas Kaberle trade.

      ———————–
      GO HABS GO! 2011-12 is probably not our year!
      Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

      • Natrous says:

        This is the first time I’ve defended PG, but I think you’re stretching it a little here:
        1. No other GM will trade for Gomez, this year or last year, and moving him to Hamilton will require Molson’s blessing, something that Molson said he will not give.
        2. At the time of the Markov signing, he was on pace to be back either at the end of the preseason, or start of the regular season. PG does not have a crystal ball to tell him whether or not Markov would have a setback by over-working his rehab.
        3. Hard to defend, but Kaberle was on fire for Carolina at the time of the trade, and PG was obviously desperate to ‘right the ship’ via the struggling PP at the time. This was at the same time that he fired JM, so clearly he was doing everything he could do to get the Habs back on track for the playoffs.

      • Kooch7800 says:

        The markov deal I can understand even though it was risky. By no means can I justify in my mind the Kabby deal. it still baffles me to this day. Was a panic move. We would be better off with Spacek right now. No doubt in my mind

    • WHOA Gerald, what’s this about Richer vs Healy?

      As for the Summit, Every year the best of the best show up, Next Year I hope to contribute to a Summit Pick up game with a couple Habs vets. Initial planning hasn’t started until I run the idea by Mr. Cobb. Can’t wait to get started.

      GOOD MORNING ALL AND HAPPY FRIDAY

      GAME DAY GAME DAY

      CAREY CAREY CAREY

      GO HABS GO

      Shane Oliver
      http://www.Sholi2000.com Inc.
      Custom Sports Figures
      Brandon, MB,Canada
      R7B 2R7
      hockey@sholi2000.com
      Ph- 204 724 8418

  60. Marc10 says:

    The season in a nutshell:

    No PP… because we don’t have a gun and our QB is on one leg.

    Vets that suck (with the exception of Moen and AK…)

  61. Mustang says:

    Most fans want a good effort which we have not really seen lately. Big fat long term contracts resulting in half-assed efforts has turned me off more than anything else. I always have been and will continue to be a fan of the Montreal Canadiens. The power play certainly has sucked this year but we also must stop giving up early goals. It seems that more often than not, we are behind within the first few minutes of too many games.

    • habs03 says:

      Sorry but I have to disagree, who was been given “half-assed effort”?

      • RGM says:

        Hints…
        One just got traded.
        One should have been demoted to Hamilton or traded.
        One has a Twitter hashtag dedicated to blaming him.
        One wears a turtleneck.
        One is in a contract year and while sometimes plays like his ass is on fire, most nights does not.

        ———————–
        GO HABS GO! 2011-12 is probably not our year!
        Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

        • habs03 says:

          Really, Subban hasn’t been trying? He has struggled greatly, but I don’t see how you can say that PK isn’t trying.
          Gomez, the guy sucks, and he better not be on the team next season, but he hasn’t even played most of the season, and since being back, he has played pretty good.
          Plek has struggled but him too, how can you say he is being lazy, the guy works his ass off, and it shows with how good our pk is. And I’m guessin the last is A.kost, well thats how A.kost has been his whole career.

          • TomNickle says:

            Plekanec has been consistently lazy in my opinion. Every game he seems to put together one or two shifts where he’s really going hard and has some “wow” factor to him. But I’ve been watching him fairly closely and more often than not he’s bent over and reaching out with one hand on his stick looking to break up a play defensively. His coverage in the defensive zone has been dreadful, and that’s been a product of lazy backchecking.

          • habs03 says:

            This could be true, but I think when a team struggles this much, you see a bit more laziness from everyone, but in general, I can’t say this team stopped trying. Atleast if you compare this to the 2008 team that literally stopped playing the second half of the season, stupid With Tanguay,Dags, Higgins, Latendresse..etc

        • TomNickle says:

          To be fair. The one who should’ve been demoted to Hamilton hasn’t really had a chance to prove himself this season, and in my opinion, he hasn’t lacked for effort when he’s been in the lineup during this campaign.

          The guy with the hashtag dedicated to blaming him has been making consistent mistakes in big ways, but I don’t think effort is lacking there.

          The others? Yeah.

      • Mustang says:

        So what you are saying is that they are trying as hard as they can but unfortunately they are all a bunch of crappy players. I think that many of the players do not seem to be working as hard as they should. Not everyone, but this is a team sport and a few can screw up the efforts of the rest. On any given night 22 players do not show up and give a full 60 minute effort. If they did, they would not be where they are in the standings. This is simply my opinion, no more, no less.

  62. avatar_58 says:

    Anyone else going to the bulldogs outdoor game? Tonight is the habs/leafs alumni game and I think I’m going to freeze my manbits off

  63. habs03 says:

    I dunno about you guys, but this could be the best thing to happen to us in the long haul, we have a decent propsect pool and a group of a young core, Price, Subban,Patches etc, but we lack a true impact forward, and it looks like we’ll actually be able to get that impact forward in this year draft. We will be to get a couple of decent picks for our outgoing vets, Gill,Moen,maybe Kost..etc Plus IMO this team is better than it has played this season, so with some good offseason retooling will be back on track next season.

  64. manu07 says:

    At this point, the Habs don’t have to intentionally tank! They r crumbling even by putting in a decent effort in some games. No game is crucial. It’s over! If they made the playoffs it would be a miracle

  65. G-Man says:

    No matter how bad or good they are, I am a fan of the Habs. I have been since the 65 Cup. I have been lucky enough to follow the team through thick and thin. Yes, it’s been thin for a long time. My idol remains Jean Beliveau. I have been spoiled by Stanley Cup after Stanley Cup, yet the drought is getting to me. A bit.
    I will still watch and curse them out and cheer when they play well. My heart beats with the bleu, blanc et rouge blood that runs through my veins.

    • Thomas Le Fan says:

      C’est ca.

    • HardHabits says:

      I am no more or no less a fan than you or anybody else here. There is no such thing as a True Fan™. Posturing and professing your true love for the team through thick and thin doesn’t make you better than Timo.

      Part of what makes us humans excel as a species is our ability to see things as they are when times are tough and not sugarcoat them or sweep them under the rug.

      Many people here are fans of Halak not because he is with the Blues but because of what he did as a Hab.

      So as much as you and Thomas le Old Man and others who like to fluff their feathers online think you are better because of blind fealty, remember that it is attitudes like that, that lend way and facilitate things like tyranny, mediocrity and abuse by people in high places.

      Blind adherence and loyalty are of little value except to those who would take advantage of the suckers who are born every minute.

      • G-Man says:

        Listen, HH. This thread is about apathy. I set out my position as a fan.
        Did I mention any one else’s thought on the Habs anywhere in my post? Did I use the term “True Fan” anywhere in my post?
        Did I mention anywhere that I am a “better” fan than anyone else here who posts?
        Take the time to comprehend what I wrote, before going off half-tanked.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Agree G, was actually going to reply to HH, nowhere did I see you address him, not sure the reason for the defensive response. All the Best G! Good luck to your Giants this weekend, turns out you have two other huge Giants fans in Jim and Chris Laplante. As long as Manning stops eating Taco Smell and keeps his stomach okay you guys should be set. (He missed wed. practise with a sore tummy)

          • G-Man says:

            Thanks, Burli- big game for my G-Men. As last week, I expect the worst but hope for the best.

        • Thomas Le Fan says:

          You’re right. No one said they were a “better” fan than anyone else. HH is special, however. It’s all about him and his disappointment. He likes to make straw men and then kick the crap out of them.

          Go Habs!

          • Clay says:

            “…Anyone not of that mind should go pull for the Blues.”
            -Thomas Le Fan-
            Sure sounds to me like you think you are a ‘better’ fan. ;)

            __________________________
            ☞ “Talent is a gift from God, but you only succeed with hard work. Yvan was proof of that.” – Jean Beliveau. ☜

      • Clay says:

        What HH said…

        __________________________
        ☞ “Talent is a gift from God, but you only succeed with hard work. Yvan was proof of that.” – Jean Beliveau. ☜

        • Thomas Le Fan says:

          You can be HH’s sycophant if you like. I am a fan. Period.
          Feeble comeback, expected. Bring it on! Go Habs.

          • Clay says:

            And you can be a condescending ass all you want, but I remain a fan as well.
            Good day to you sir.

            __________________________
            ☞ “Talent is a gift from God, but you only succeed with hard work. Yvan was proof of that.” – Jean Beliveau. ☜

  66. Clay says:

    Can we please stop calling games ‘important’ or ‘crucial’ now? This team is not making the playoffs – and it would only hurt their long term future if somehow they squeaked in, as it would give us a far worse pick. This team is in desperate need of a star player. And before you say it, Price is not a star player.

    __________________________
    ☞ “Talent is a gift from God, but you only succeed with hard work. Yvan was proof of that.” – Jean Beliveau. ☜

  67. price365 says:

    IMO if the Habs ever want to win another cup in the new NHL they’ll have to produce a team with four 20-25 goal scores four 15-20 goal scores a real good Defence along with consistant goaltending. anything less and you’ll be waiting many years to see a 25th cup in Montreal. at the end of the season. we’ll probably have half of those scores. a defence that’s still weak. and questionable goaltending.
    big changes are needed.

  68. Habsbill24 says:

    We the fans are losing interest because it is totally embarrassing to be a Habs fan as the team is a bad joke. My Habs jacket is buried deep in my closet, looking forward to spring training, why be associated with this team in any way until ownership does something positive to right the ship.

  69. Thomas Le Fan says:

    This fan is not losing faith. I’ve been watching and supporting this team through ups and downs, ins and outs, thick and thin since 1957 and expect to until the good Lord calls me home. Anyone not of that mind should go pull for the Blues. They will win the next 20 cups on the mighty back of Jaro Halak. As for me? Go Habs!

  70. Bad Digestion says:

    Good the fans are staying away, it’s not fair the Habs organization should keep making mega-profits while giving so little in return. Almost 20 years of mediocrity and so little change in management and team philosophy. When the money stops pouring in, companies start making REAL change.

  71. HankHardball says:

    Last year they came within 3 minutes of getting Claude Julien fired.
    The year before they went to the Conference Final.

    Are the Habs underachieving this year?
    Or were they overachieving the last couple of years?

    • G-Man says:

      Underachieving by a large margin. Have you ever seen a Habs club with so many veterans choking all season long like this one has?

    • HardHabits says:

      The Habs rode unsustainable goal-tending to those two over achieving events. Halak was out of this world in the games he won during the run to the ECF and had Price had to play 72 games to get the Habs to a 6th seed.

      This year the goal-tending is average to mediocre and thus the results. The main issue is lack of scoring punch. Nothing about this team gives me confidence that they can come back from a deficit let alone hold onto a lead.

      Scoring has been their problem since Gainey rebooted the team and Martin took over.

    • boonie says:

      They were a middle of the road team that had a nice run on two players that we shipped out; and lost in the first round.

      the word of the day is detritus

    • Sharks9 says:

      Definitely underachieving. They’re not a great team, but they’re not a 13th place team either.

      25 before 14

  72. slamtherimtim says:

    i think Gionta needs to take some of the blame for the teams lack of chemistry , the club waited a year to name a captain to ensure the right guy got it and he was just like any other player on the team wondering why they couldnt win , he is no leader and should not have it next year , give it to georges he talks like a captain , mabe the pressure was too much for Gio

  73. JohnBellyful says:

    Meanwhile, in a parallel universe …

    MONTREAL – Thousands of fans gathered at Brossard yesterday morning to watch the Montreal Canadiens practise, and to the surprise of many none of them carried pitchforks or torches. Most, in fact, waved placards proclaiming their love for the team and serenaded the players with hearty renditions of “You’ve Got a Friend” for the entire 90 minutes.
    And there was no chorus of boos when the players left the ice as has been the case of late following home games. Instead, they were inundated with flowers and cheers, with fans young and old blowing kisses.
    “This team has gone through a lot and it’s time we fans showed we still care about them, especially with all the troubles they’ve had – like Jacques Martin,” said one fan from Calgary who sported a “Gomez is Great” button. “I flew in all the way from out West because I thought the Canadiens could use a boost from one of their toughest critics. This team can turn it around this season, I know they can.”
    “I’ve never seen anything like it,” an amazed Hal Gill said, still feeling the love 30 minutes later. “To have that show of affection before going on a road trip, with the season we’ve been having, means a great deal to me and the guys. We’re just overwhelmed – and extremely thankful for what the fans did today.”
    Gill couldn’t continue as he began to fill up, and walked away, his shoulders heaving. Other players were overcome with emotion as well and could be heard sobbing with their heads buried in towels.
    “I’m crying like a little girl,” sniffed a red-eyed Tomas Plekanec.
    The dressing room turned quiet when an unexpected visitor, general manager Pierre Gauthier, made an entrance. The possibility of being traded, which most players would have welcomed two hours earlier, had now become news to be dreaded by those same athletes after the outpouring of genuine love by the fans.
    Gauthier surprised everyone, however, by saying he had never been prouder of a team and thanked them effusively for their efforts on behalf of the franchise. He ended his remarks by clapping and received applause in return from the players who stood up and began hooting their delight at receiving a heartfelt expression of support from someone they had viewed as remote and uncaring.
    The Canadiens left the building with their arms draped over each other’s shoulders, singing “Ole, Ole, Ole” and boarded the team bus where a banner stretching across the entire length read: “The Drive for 25 is Still Alive!”
    Not everyone who attended the practice sang from the same songbook as the majority of fans who turned out for the Habfest. One carried an effigy of Gauthier (“An ‘effin’ G!’”) along with a torch (“Yeah, THAT one!”) but before he could set the crude figure aflame, he was struck by the team bus as it exited the parking lot. He was taken to ER by Gauthier.
    Police officials said no charges will be laid, as the protester had “walked in front of the bus” at the parking lot and Gauthier “had slowed down to a reasonable speed” before dropping the man off at the hospital.

    – “A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.” –

  74. HabFanSince72 says:

    What if …

    I know everyone wants Gauthier fired but is it possible that he’s actually the competent member of our upper management? This assumes of course that he was not responsible for the Gomez trade.

    But objectively he inherited from Gainey a team with huge cap commitments. He could only make a few tweaks here and there. Most of his decisions since then have been either good ones or neutral. (Fave commentariat comments after the asterix)

    1. Firing Martin. He realized that Martin was antagonizing players, and contributing to a poor atmosphere. Had no choice but to fire him and correctly decided to give the job to Cunneyworth rather than conduct an extensive search. See what Cunny can do, and decide the future this summer. Correct move, and he can’t really be blamed for the language furor which in any case was a tempest in a teapot. (* “he fired him before the morning skate”)

    2. Erik Cole. Despite everyone criticizing the deal when it happened (* ” he can only play in Carolina”).

    3. Ryan O’Byrne for Bournival. O’Byrne remains the number 6 D on one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

    4. Halak for Eller. A gutsy move and – pace Manapart and Mike Milbury – a good one. Everyone thought he had messed up but he picked the right keeper, and he picked up a good hockey player. Remember he couldn’t take back a big salary. (* too many to mention).

    5. Kaberle. A minor move at best. His cap hit is not that great. He helps out. Gave up nothing to get him. (Spacek is the #6 D-man on the worst defensive team in the league.)

    6. Gorges. Played that one exactly right. (*after giving him the one year deal : “It’s an insult, Gorges will never sign for us now.”)

    7. Markov. Tough one. He had very little choice. It turned out bad but is it anyone’s fault? I doubt very much that the doctors told him Markov wouldn’t play in 2011-2012.

    8. Cammalleri. No choice. May well have robbed the Flames blind. Time will tell. (* “They traded him during the game!)

    9. Tinordi. Moving up to draft him was unquestionably a good move. Now ranked as #6 of his draft year. Taken with the 29th pick!

    of course, if all the individual decisions were sound, why are we in on the lottery?


    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • Habsbill24 says:

      Nice try Pierre, your post won’t save your job. Kaberle’s cap hit manageable? 4.25 M for a washed up player? Are you kidding?

    • boonie says:

      Why are we defending Gauthier?

      He has a terrible record as GM here and elsewhere. Notwithstanding a collection of moves that individually have debatable merit, this team’s record… his record… speaks for itself.

      Yes, he inherited this team and, while he was part of the group that traded for Gomez and brought in most of the team’s current core, the ultimate decision was Gainey’s. However, PG has two years of responsibility (culpability). Which is more than enough time to:

      1. demote or otherwise shed the Gomez contract
      2. sign UFAs that change the makeup of his team
      3. two trade deadlines and two off seasons to rid the team of players who don’t fit his plan
      4. reach epiphanies that team needs to be bigger
      5. sign a qualified backup to Price that gives us a one/two tandem that many top teams have

      I guess, in short, what I’m trying to say is a new executive in any field owns the situation they enter and must make a stamp on the organization or be labeled by the success/inadequacies of the previous group.

      If Molson brings in a new person to run this show, I would expect that (s)he would make wholesale changes to conform to team to their vision… And, that’s what’s lacking in PG… vision. There isn’t one here.

      Now, onto your comments…

      Firing Martin — We may never know, but I think Martin was pushed from above Gauthier and that PG rebutted the first push by firing Pearn on game day. Gauthier and Martin have a long history and (IMO) Martin was a terrible choice to coach a post-lockout team when they brought him in.

      Cole — has been outstanding. On many nights our best player and far above my expectations giving his track record outside the Hurricane organization.

      O’Byrne — is a minor move, a 4-6 D man for a prospect that might play a subordinate role here doesn’t merit much discussion. The other minor point worth mentioning was unfortunate timing (not PG’s fault, but again, plays into a lack of vision). Following the trade, we had some injuries which forced us to trade for Mara, Sopel and others. Had OB still been here, we might have preserved those picks. Again, no biggie.

      Halak — I still don’t like this deal. Not because Price isn’t better (he is). Not because Halak shutout Edmonton last night (he did). But, because we have anointed Eller the second coming of the Big M. He has 17 points in 43, with more than a quarter of his points coming in one memorable, insane night. So, at the moment, that trade is a quality starter that we needed at a reasonable price (and kudos to St. Louis for extending Bring Elliot on the way cheap) for a young center with talent that hasn’t produced under a coach that stifles offensive talent — left in place for too long by PG.

      Kaberle — again, a minor move. But, one that showed a lack of cap appreciation. His time is shrinking to MAB/Weber levels and he’s under contract for another two years. Spacek was a moveable part. A part that I believe will be moved for a third (to Washington) at the deadline.

      Gorges — I posted on this before. His own agent said he would have signed for less in offseason. If we were going to sign him any we should have done it for less. If he sucked — demote him. If he got injured, he’s off the cap anyway. Why do a one-year wait-and-see if we were willing to sign other damaged goods.

      Which brings us to Markov — oops. Clearly, he was not ready to “start the season” or “play on the west coast trip”. Which brings up another of Gauthier’s traits — flat our lying. Being incommunicative sucks. But come on PG, own up to mistakes.

      Cammy – moved a la Roy for an outburst. In this, one where he deigned to say a bottom 5 team has a loser mentality. That and the kneejerk trade (yes, yes he was in discussions for months to move him and yet many other GM’s didn’t know he was on the market… whatever, fibber) during a game. Cammy is happy and we get another 30-something with capped upside signed for several more years.

      Tinordi — Who knows. We’ll see when this batch of prospects gets here what we really have and how the then bilingual coach develops them. I hope he’s the next Rick Green (loved him, underrated) and the next Ryan O’Byrne.

      So, in summary, PG is:

      not a winner.
      not forthright.
      not a man with plan.
      not action oriented with respect to salary cap machinations

      Not the right GM for any team, let alone mine.

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        “I guess, in short, what I’m trying to say …”

        I’d hate to see the long version!


        Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

      • ihabto says:

        Why are we defending Gauthier?

        Because his plan hasn’t even had a chance to unfold yet. I don’t think that, as fans, we have a right to know exactly what his plan is. In fact, I think it would be counter-productive because whatever I know, every GM in the league knows. Just because you don’t share PG’s vision and aren’t privy to his plan, doesn’t mean he doesn’t have one, and a good one at that. That being said, I have my ideas about what his plan seems to be as you can read in my post below.

        My objections to the details of your comments would be too long to list but I’d like to address your 5 things that Gauthier supposedly should have done since his arrival:

        1. this is a dead horse. Gomez’s contract has not hindered anything and he is a useful player if you disregard his cap hit. If it got in the way he would be in Hamilton if that was the only available option.

        2. Cole was a nice addition. Not sure who else you would have signed. As I state below, this team isn’t in a position to be pushed over the top by a UFA or deadline trade until its young core develops and we see exactly what holes need to be filled to be truly competitive for a short-term push. That’s all you get these days.

        3. Maybe they fit his plan, of filling in until the young core takes over.

        4. Ludicrous. PG has traded for, drafted and signed players to make this team bigger in the long-term.

        5. Other teams have a one-two tandem because they don’t have a Carey Price. By that I mean they don’t have someone in the position to play 60+ games a year at an elite level for a lot of years. Price is gaining the experience now so that when there is a legitimately contending team playing in front of him his job is gonna seem easy and his trophy case is gonna be full :)

        So in short my opinion is that a lot of the “vision” on this site is much more short-sighted than PGs apparent long-term vision of this team. I could be completely wrong and PG could be the bumbling idiot he is accused of being. But for now I choose not to believe that.

    • ihabto says:

      I agree, Gauthier has made a lot of sound moves since he took over. The reason that we are in on the lottery is two- (or three-) fold in my opinion.

      The first two are the combination of a little bit of overachievement in the past years making this years’ underachievement (for a variety of reason) look like the team has regressed. But that’s only part of it.

      I believe the major theme is that Gauthier has not made any HUGE moves to make this team noticeably better in the short-term. Rather his moves (or non-moves) have been either to improve the long-term potential of the team (Cole, Bournival, Bourqe + pick, Eller, Gorges, Tinordi, Diaz, Emelin, even Markov) or to band-aid the current product in an attempt to remain competitive during this unofficial rebuild (keeping Martin, Campoli, Kaberle).

      That’s not a knock on Gauthier, it wouldn’t have made sense to make any HUGE short-term improvements. This team is not ready to be “pushed over the top” just yet. But remember, by the time these long-term moves (along with the emergence of home-grown talent hitting its prime) start to pay off some of the unwieldy salaries will be off the books and Gauthier (if still around) will have the financial freedom to spend money on the right FAs at a time when it makes sense, i.e., when the team is in a position to compete.

    • twilighthours says:

      I really like your posts and almost always agree with you, but your resistance to seeing the Kaberle trade for what it is baffles me. It is a horrible trade. You throw Spacek under the bus for being the 6th D on the worst defensive team in the NHL. Hello? Kaberle is the PP quarterback for the worst PP team in the NHL, gets about 9 minutes of even strength time per game, and could easily be 7th/8th D on the 25th worst team in the NHL. Tack on the fact that he’s got a 4ish mil cap it for 2 more seasons, and this was a horrendous trade.

      I am generally OK with PG but the Kaberle trade was foolish.

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        I think it’s a non-issue. Cap-wise it is a wash for this year. Spacek can’t handle the NHL anymore.


        Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

      • ihabto says:

        The trade didn’t hurt the team and it had the potential to vastly improve it. PG tried something, it didn’t work as well as it could have.

        • twilighthours says:

          Of course it hurts the team! Kaberle is making more than Bourque, Gorges, AKost… almost as much as Cole. Would you get rid of Kaberle for another one of these guys?

    • Clay says:

      I like the spirit of your post, but I take issue with a few of the points:
      1) Firing Martin: I think firing Martin was a bad decision. I was never really a fan of his, but certainly not one clamoring for his head either. However, look at the dismal record since he left. This tells me he knew the limitations of his team, and made an appropriate game plan to compensate for the myriad of weaknesses. He kept us close to the playoffs, and in most games.

      4) Halak for Eller: You stated that “he picked the right keeper, and he picked up a good hockey player.” Well, I think Eller is a good player (not great, but good), but I think your assertion that ‘he picked the right keeper’ is both premature and likely erroneous. Halak is rounding into form again, and is certainly one of the top goalies in the league right now, despite his terrible start – while Price is near the bottom of the heap stats wise. I think Halak is the real deal, and showed that he can handle the immense pressure that playing in Montreal brings. Price has yet to show this. I hope he does, but I have my reservations that he really has what it takes to win here.

      5) Kaberle: Again, i think it was a poor decision, and a knee jerk reaction to try to save his own job. One simply can’t afford to pay a defenceman 4.5 million for playing 9 minutes and change a game. If we can’t find more use for Kaberle, this move will go down in infamy, and soon. And for the record, I was not one of those against the trade when it happened.

      As for the rest – I agree, or am at worst neutral – and 6 out of 9 is pretty good!

      __________________________
      ☞ “Talent is a gift from God, but you only succeed with hard work. Yvan was proof of that.” – Jean Beliveau. ☜

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        Agreed that we are worse since Martin was fired.

        However, in the long run Martin was a deleterious influence on the team. I’m convinced now that he simply did not like his players very much. It might be a case of generational miscommunication. That is the most charitable interpretation.

        I remember after the Pacioretty incident how unperturbed Martin was. It bothered me at the time. In retrospect, it is part of a pattern. For example, he formed the opinion, before he had coached even one pre-season game, that Latendresse, Lapierre and SK74 were bad apples.

        Once you are not going to make the playoffs, the goal is to develop the young players as well as possible. Martin was not the man for that job.


        Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

        • Clay says:

          Actually, I agree with everything you just wrote. however, the fact remains hat we were a better team with him than without. Perhaps he should have been fired in the off-season so there was a better chance of finding a quality coach. Hitchcock was available – we should have nabbed him when he was. Huge mistake not to, IMO.

          Off to watch the beginning of the week-long Chinese New Year fireworks…enjoy your day. :)

          __________________________
          ☞ “Talent is a gift from God, but you only succeed with hard work. Yvan was proof of that.” – Jean Beliveau. ☜

  75. fun police says:

    The habs have become difficult to watch. i can finally understand how a leaf fan feels. it is incredible that before the end of january, there may not be much of a reason to continue to watch. however, aside from the brutal inconsistencies of the way they play night in and night out, there are plenty of reasons why the fans have become apathetic.
    the french media going after RC was ridiculous and an embarrassment to the franchise. that helped created apathy.
    I also blame the complete lack of transparency of the canadiens management. the constant “is markov coming back or not” has also helped create apathy. Say what you want about burke, but at least he is doing radio, tv and even twitter. fans don’t ask for much, but a little communication from the GM would be nice.

    • G-Man says:

      PG isn’t a media whore, like Burke. It’s the losing that’s creating apathy, not anything else. Montrealers have a lot to choice as far as spending their entertainment dollar, and the Habs right now are not entertaining or exciting to watch.

  76. HardHabits says:

    I have never once booed the team while at either the Forum or the Booth.

    The team hasn’t been able to score since they became the smurf patrol and this year they can’t defend. Price has been average at best and as of late has been weak.

    But don’t blame the fans. Gainey set him up as the saviour and since he isn’t delivering the flock to the promised land he is now being viewed by many as a failure.

    It is better to lower expectations and exceed them than to raise them and fall short. The Habs do too much of the latter and that is why criticism is louder than ever.

  77. martincurran55 says:

    I am completely frustrated with this team, but I wouldn’t boo any of them. The management put this team together, so they should be criticized. I wouldn’t even boo Gomez, as much as I do despise him. These players are not good players. We have a young core that we keep together and ship out all of the vets. Even Moen, as much as I like him. If it wasn’t for Carey Price, this team would be below Columbus in the standings. So, maybe we should play him every other night now and lets get that 1st overall pick. I have no problems writing off this season as long as we have some sort of plan moving forward. Lets fail the next 2 or 3 years, I don’t care, but lets have a game plan.

  78. RGM says:

    So was Cammalleri.

    ———————–
    GO HABS GO! 2011-12 is probably not our year!
    Chat with me on Twitter @TheRealRGM81

  79. HabFanSince72 says:

    But he’s a coach.

    Are there any teams that are built using the moneyball approach?

    Obviously Tampa are not.


    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  80. G-Man says:

    Imply: to strongly suggest the truth or existence of.

    “It;s the game that matters not the players or even the logo.”
    You imply with that statement that you aren’t a fan of the Habs, but are a fan of the game. Fair enough. There are 30 boards you can visit and point out the failings in all their organizations over and over.

    I get the strongest feeling you post only to stir the pot and receive angry replies. I’m getting too old for that schtick.

    And, yes, Defense wins. Bs D was better than the Habs last playoffs. It was the major reason for their win. It’s the major reason the Bs are doing well this year.
    Finally, why would anyone bother to hate you? You post on a Habs site, not the “Follow me and agree with me” site.

  81. HabinBurlington says:

    Perhaps Nashville, but with key players now approaching final year RFA and UFA status, the format will be tested. Nashville is constantly searching waiver wire picking up different people inserting into lineup.

    I think Wpg is also attempting to use a balanced approach to their payroll.

  82. christophor says:

    While I don’t appreciate the Halak-knocks, he only faced 15 shots last night and was named the game’s 3rd star only because it’s wrong not to give a goalie a star when he gets a shut out.

    St. Louis is looking good, so good that Halak basically got a night off.

  83. DorvalTony says:

    http://newshopper.sulekha.com/jaroslav-halak-sidney-crosby_photo_1311726.htm

    ——————————————————————
    ”First of all, you have to have continuity if you are to have success,” Pollock told the New York Times. ”I think it gets the manager and the players to become more attached to each other.” – Sam Pollock

  84. shiram says:

    Curious here, do you think Jaro would do better than Price if he were still a Hab?
    Price with St-Louis?
    Also RC says he wants to reward the player that work hard and produce, (see him double shifting Cole) so that’s one thing…

  85. christophor says:

    And unfortunately you’re a paradigm crazy fan: when things are good, you’re a great fan, but a few weeks or a half season of bad play, and you re-write history, talking about how bad the organization (and especially the goalie) has always been. It’s hopeless, the sky is falling, etc.

    Short sighted. I’m glad someone like you isn’t in charge of things. You’d Milbury it up.

  86. Seps says:

    What does that have anything to do with the goalie?

    #failfornail

  87. shiram says:

    I feel that with either Halak or Price the Habs would probably be in a similar place in the standings, considering how weak the scoring is on the team.
    Price has not been great this year, but most night he does good.

  88. SteverenO says:

    Has RC been under a rock all season? Playing Gomez on the PP is like entering a one -legged man in an ass-kicking contest.

    RC had a chance to make a statement. After a convincing win (whens the lasttime we heard those two words together?) over the Rangers, he could have gone back with Budaj against the Caps. Budaj EARNED another start.

    Bourque comes in and sparks the team, his reward? Sit on the bench and watch how Gomez performs on the PP in a critical game for 5 minutes. I know our PP is the worst in the league and our PK near the best.,but we brought you here to kill penalties and watch how Gomez works the PP. Maybe if you watch him for another 47 minutes we`ll see the team pop another power play goal.

    If Gomez was a leader he would say, “hey coach, thanks but I don`t deserve to play on the PP. Let me work my ass off 5 on 5 and maybe kill penalties. Until I start scoring again put me in a position where I can help the team. I’ll become the leagues best “shadow” and cover the opponents top scorer like glue, but until I score at least 3 goals in one month , keep me the hell off the PP!”

    Gauthier to Cunneyworth?
    “Wake up, RC! If we wanted Gomez on the PP , we would not have fired the coach!” .

    There a whole hulabaloo about the coach not speaking French, but can anyone of the umpteen reporters covering this team ask the coach a simple question, in any language ?

    Why is Gomez (0 goals) on the PP for 5 minutes and Bourque (13 goals, 3 PP goals) on for 1 minute?

    Shame on you , Cunneyworth. for not doing your job.
    Shame on you reporters, for not doing yours!

    regards,

    Steve O.
    Qlik View – Data Discovery.
    Every team needs it- Every coach needs it.
    Every fan needs it!

    http://litcosys.ca/QV_videos.html

  89. powdered toastmann says:

    Oui, Oui.

  90. Ian Cobb says:

    David–Your right! It all starts at the top. If you do not have the very best in place at the top, the rest is subject to failure.

  91. christophor says:

    If only I could take a peek from your privileged perspective.

    Gawd your ideas are outdated.

  92. Chris says:

    Let’s say we sell at this deadline…what will change? And what is the realistic return on the players we sell? How long will the rebuild take?

    We might pick up a decent player, but we might not. This draft is supposedly “deep”, but there are question marks around a great number of the players.

  93. shiram says:

    My comments would most likely be deleted by mods…

  94. Timo says:

    I feel like I need to say something that includes Gomez but nothing is coming.

  95. Mattyleg says:

    The film’s working title is reported to be “Better Than a Bird in the Hand.”

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  96. habsperspective says:

    I wonder what that would look like during the playoffs.

  97. G-Man says:

    The title, “Holy Mackinaw”, is already on DVD and Bluray. ;)

  98. avatar_58 says:

    Experts think the situation smells a little fishy…

  99. LA Loyalist says:

    Gomez would shoot twice and miss both shots.

  100. shiram says:

    Something pertaining to tacos, one would think.

  101. Ton says:

    Timo I am really liking your composure of late! I’m impressed!

  102. Mattyleg says:

    Easy tiger.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  103. shiram says:

    Going with a weird one:
    Cornholio goes for the TP.

  104. Malreg says:

    Kind of like how Halak allowed 3 goals on 16 shots on October 8th? Or 4 goals on 23 shots October 16th? Or 5 goals on 24 shots on October 18th?

    All goalie’s have bad games every now and then. If you want to praise Halak like he’s a god for making 15 saves a game, then go ahead.

    Halak is the same goalie he was 2 years ago, extremely inconsistent. He goes on runs where he’s great, and runs where he’s terrible. Ironic that the only people that would choose Halak over Price are mostly located in Montreal.

  105. Chris says:

    What worked for Ottawa?

    They sure tanked the previous two seasons. They signed an aging Sergei Gonchar to a huge contract. Ditto Alex Kovalev. In 2010, they had no 1st or 2nd round draft pick.

    Their best player, Erik Karlsson, was drafted 15th overall. Up front, they are relying on 39-year old Daniel Alfredsson and 28-year old Jason Spezza, the same core guys that were with that team through their doldrums.

    Last season, they traded Mike Fisher (1st and 3rd round picks) as he wanted to relocate to be closer to his wife’s Nashville base. They also traded Chris Kelly (2nd round pick), Alex Kovalev (7th round pick) and Jarkko Ruuttu (6th round pick).

    Fisher and Kelly both had term remaining on their contracts, while Kovalev did not. I would hardly argue that the assets they got in return for Kovalev and Ruuttu helped them rebuild this season, and the jury will remain out on the pick (Stefan Noesen from the Fisher trade and Matt Puempel, acquired for the 1st round pick acquired by packaging the Chris Kelly 2nd rounder with Ottawa’s own 2nd rounder).

    They had other assets (Spezza, Neil, Phillips, Gonchar) that they perhaps could have traded and did not. With the exception of Fisher, whose trade was due to extenuating circumstances, the Senators didn’t exactly do much more than tinker.

    And the funniest part of using Ottawa as an example? From March 1st, they went 11-8-1 after going 21-32-9 up to that point. So their vaunted tank saw them do better, probably costing them a couple of rungs in the draft.

    For the second time in as many weeks, you are using a terrible example to portray your philosphy. Given how much time you have spent formulating the tank philosophy, I am a little surprised that you haven’t done your homework.

    The Ottawa resurrection is primarily due to the guys that were injured so much last season (Spezza, Michalek, Alfredsson) staying healthy this year and that they’ve gotten solid goaltending from Anderson that they did not get last season.

  106. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …have done Shiloh …Copy works …if working in certain same program, on same page ‘sometimes’ will Copy/Paste …most times not …if, for instance on IE or Chrome browser, copy from RDS page and try to paste on HIO, does not function
    …even as I type this, I tried to Copy/Paste on this HIO comment, and does not function :(

    Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049

  107. AndyF says:

    You’re right. Erik Karlsson was drafted 15th in the first round of 2008. I’d take him any day.

    What did the Habs do with their first round pick that year? Oops… they didn’t have one. They had traded it away for Alex Tanguay so that we could just make the playoffs.

    Getting a lot of picks is the only winning strategy in the draft. You never know, but you can’t win unless you buy a ticket.

    And using Ottawa’s “non-tank” as a counter-example doesn’t disprove the fact that there is a deadly grey zone that you don’t want to be in: 17th to 22nd in the league.

    The fact that Ottawa failed to execute a tank isn’t disproving anything.

    http://andyfroncioni.com

  108. citizenSanto says:

    “I find your lack of faith disturbing”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsyzRUKwgng&feature=related

    —————————————
    Hope has two beautiful daughters. Their names are anger and courage; anger at the way things are, and courage to see that they do not remain the way they are.
    – Augustine of Hippo

  109. JohnBellyful says:

    If there’s one person who knows his vegetables, it’s PG so the team’s in good hands … right?

  110. Mattyleg says:

    Ha!

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  111. citizenSanto says:

    Good, I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete

  112. Chris says:

    Context is everything, Andy.

    Montreal did not trade a 1st round pick for Alex Tanguay in an effort to make the playoffs, as you stated.

    They traded a 1st and a 2nd round pick the summer after they finished 1st in the Eastern Conference and 3rd overall in exchange for Alex Tanguay, who they felt would help flesh out their top-6 and give them a chance to get over the hump and contend for the Stanley Cup.

    They thought they were Stanley Cup contenders in 2008-09, and many pundits agreed. But things didn’t work out that way.

    Detroit routinely trades their 1st round picks, having only drafted in the first round since 2001. None of those 1st round picks, by the way, have contributed.

    San Jose has had 2 1st round picks in the past 5 years.

    Philadelphia had to trade Jeff Carter to get their first 1st or 2nd round pick in three drafts.

    Teams routinely trade 1st round picks when they are “going for it”. Montreal was no different. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

  113. LA Loyalist says:

    Rashomon! Yeah. I kept thinking it was a brand of noodles.

    I recently re-screened RAN. Reminded me of our season… and 7 Samauri, of course.

  114. JohnBellyful says:

    Since we’re getting all confessional here, I admit I write a lot of my stuff from the gut as well. But only when I have a Bellyful.

  115. ont fan says:

    7 samauri ..the Magnificant 7..Yul Brenner

  116. citizenSanto says:

    say 5 Hail Marys and all is forgiven.


Leave a Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.