And the clock ticks louder toward a lockout


Alexander Joe, AFP/Getty Images

More than 200 NHL players are expected to converge on New York City for NHLPA meetings Wednesday and Thursday. The league’s board of governors – this is, the owners of the 30 NHL clubs or their designates – will meet in the same city.

Whether the two sides meet to try to bridge the gap between their proposals is yet to be seen, and hanging in the balance is the start of 2012-13 training camps next week, the exhibition games and probably the start of the season.

• Dave Stubbs talks to Canadiens’ Erik Cole
• CP’s Chris Johnston on the big picture
• TSN’s Bob McKenzie with an encyclopedic must-read
• Full audio of NHLPA’s Monday teleconference with Josh Gorges and Mathieu Darche
• Toronto Star’s Kevin McGran on NHLPA’s challenge of lockout legality


  1. JF says:

    I assume Fehr is presenting some new proposal at this meeting, otherwise why bother? I’ll be absolutely livid if the NHL rejects any new offer out of hand, and I’ll be certain that Bettman and the owners planned on a lockout right from the start and will carry it on until the players are willing to accept something close to the NHL’s original offer.

    I’m just hoping Fehr’s proposal will provide some common ground that will bring the two sides a bit closer. If they make any progress at all in the next few days, I’m guessing Bettman will wait before imposing a lockout. After all, the season does not begin until 11 October – still a month away. But there has to be something the two sides can talk about, something they can more or less agree on and that can serve as a way to start hammering out an agreement. I’m just praying that happens today.

  2. accp says:

    Get rid of butthead start our own NHL in Canada where Hockey began and belongs start with 6-teams Van, Edm, Cal, Wpg, Tor, Mont, Que we can expand from there. all Canadians will run the League and we won’t have anymore problems. we’ll never have a good NHL League as long as americans are in charge forget it …

  3. frontenac1 says:

    It was great to see PK on L”Antichambre last night.He was really quick and funny. Thought he said all the right things ,especially about his contract. Basically leaving it all up to Meehan whom he trusts.(With good reason) .He left a strong impression he wants to get it done in MTL.. I was really hoping he would have tuned up PJ Stock though.

  4. Clay says:

    In lieu of hockey…at least my Denver Broncos look great this year! Thank you Peyton Manning.

    ☞ The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. ~ Richard Feynman ☜

  5. Bripro says:

    Did you guys hear or read in this morning’s paper about the two Alaskans stranded at sea, and both survived?
    The one floated in a plastic bucket for 24 hours.
    When interviewed, the Captain of the Canadian coast guard vessel said that “the poor fellow paddled and paddled but couldn’t seem to get anywhere, but lucky for him, the air trapped in his Montreal Canadiens’ jersey kept him afloat”.
    I wonder who he was referring to…

  6. Mattyleg says:

    Mornin’ all!
    Spot of artwork for you care of Mattyleg:

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

  7. Phoenix Coyotes purchasers secretly involved with Indian tribe trying to build $500 million casino next to rink?
    The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site:
    Twitter: @teliopost

  8. HabinBurlington says:

    Hockey Trivia Part Deux – Over 40 NHL Players have scored 500 or more goals. Only one NHL goalie has had misfortune to give up not one or two 500th goals, but has had 3 players score their 500th goal on him. Who is that goalie?

  9. HabinBurlington says:

    In Lieu of Hockey News, here is some trivia (NO GOOGLING!).

    First NHL Player to record 100 or more points and 100 PIM’s in his rookie season?

    • ed lopaz says:


      how many have even scored 100 in their rookie season?

      • HabinBurlington says:

        Very good Ed, for some reason I didn’t think was that easy originally. I guessed Espo last night at my sports bar and Crosby on my 2nd pick.

        • Habfan10912 says:

          Before I googled my answer would have been Mike Bossy.


          • ed lopaz says:

            Mike Bossy is 9 CONSECUTIVE 50 goal seasons starting amazingly enough with his rookie year and ending in his 10th season with 38 goals in only 63 games. retired because of a back injury.

            even Gretzky only scored 43 in his rookie season, and then rattled off 8 consecutive 50 goal seasons – but not 9.

            Bossy’s record might be tough to break I would imagine!!

          • Lafleurguy says:

            I know you know this J., but Montreal native Mike Bossy was a Lady Byng winner!

            “May you live in interesting times.”

          • 24 Cups says:

            Mike Bossy, now there was a great hockey player.

            He never really did rack up the penalty minutes, that was left to the other guys. Check out his career stats, unreal!

            752 573 553 1126 210 (nine 50+ goal seasons in a row)

            Bossy is easily one of the top twenty-five players of all time.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Agree guys, to me, Bossy is the best pure goal scorer of all time.

  10. Ian Cobb says:

    Johnbellyful– thanks for the English lesson below. Just to many new words for me to use at this time!

    Steve! We may just have to follow the Dogs and the OHL this year my friend. We will know in a very few short days from now my friend.

  11. 24 Cups says:

    “The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.”
    Sun Tzu

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Good Morning Steve, long time no talk. Hope you are doing well, how is the golf swing these days?

      • 24 Cups says:

        Greetings and salutations, Gerald!

        I’ve made a point of basically sitting out the lockout. The owners and players are not worthy of my time and attention. There is plenty of room for compromise on both sides of the battle. It could easily be worked out by Saturday afternoon. Alas, it’s not to be.

        The only real Hab news of the past two months has been the re-signing of Price and Max-Pac. Everything else is filler, especially all the CBA laments and ‘debates’. It’s like watching summer reruns of your favourite prime time television shows.

        As for my golf game, the only word to describe it would be the term ‘erratic’. My game is like a toilet seat that constantly goes up and down.

        I went to play a new course called Oak Bay last Tuesday and had seven pars while still shooting a mind numbing, heart wrenching 97. Trust me, that’s not easy to do!

        • HabinBurlington says:

          LOL, I hear you bud. Glad you are getting out to play though. The weather has been great all season for us golfers, hopefully we get treated to some choice fall golf weather as well.

          Agree on your perspective Re:CBA talks etc…. Too bad I am such a Habs addict that I still thirst information.

          Have a good day my friend, all the best.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Profound words indeed 24.


  12. Cal says:

    Forgive the length of this, but Steve and Bob are meeting today in NY.

    Beavis jr. and Butthead jr. meet for breakfast at the NHL office commissary. A large sign displayed behind the counter reads: Breakfast Special! 2 for 1.
    Both juniors notice the sign and begin drooling uncontrollably; Beavis jr. is thinking about a cheese omelet and Butthead jr. is salivating at the prospect of pancakes. “What say we split breakfast?” they both say simultanoeusly, causing blushes to appear on both men’s cheeks. They look away from each other, embarrassed at the odd way they stumbled upon agreeing about something for once.
    They take their stools at the counter, not wanting to speak first as to what they want, remembering the advice senior Beavis and Butthead gave them each individually. “Remember, you’re going to this meeting to keep the communication channels open, but that’s all. Don’t agree to anything. Just say you’ll take it back to the office to discuss it further.”
    After being served their complimentary coffee, both turn their heads toward each other to speak, but are reluctant because of their earlier faux-pas. Beavis jr. gets an idea, and slowly raises his hand and pointing at the sign with the various omelets available. Unfortunately, Butthead jr. has the same brainstorm and is pointing at the sign with the pancakes.
    No words are spoken, and, after a long while,( and three complimentary coffees later) stomachs rumble, breaking the self-imposed silence.
    Beavis jr. mutters, “We must resolve this impasse! I’m starving!”
    Butthead jr., staring avidly at the food patrons are being served, reluctantly agrees. “Okay, but we both can’t have what we want. What’s the next choice? Just point at what you want. Ready? 1, 2,3…” One points at the french toast, the other at a western sandwich. “Damn and blast!” Beavis jr. blurts out, “Why can’t you ever agree to what I want for a change?” Butthead jr., steam rising from his ears, “What? I give and give and give and you always want more!”
    “Um, gentleman?” It’s the waitress. “Have you decided yet? I have other customers who want to eat.”
    Chastened, they both start pointing willy nilly at the menu signs, never at the same one. The waitress glides away, efficiently serving the other customers at her station. She returns an hour later to find both men actually pointing at the same sign. “Sorry, gentlemen, breakfast is no longer being served. Have a look at our lunch menu.”
    All the other customers have left by the time they agree on a meal, so there’s no one there to witness it…or care.

  13. ed lopaz says:

    87 Series last night.

    Canada sends out the following players for a 3rd period power play:

    Center: Mark Messier
    Wing: Wayne Gretzky
    Wing: Mario Lemieux
    Defence: Ray Bourque
    Defence: Paul Coffey

    That is the BEST group of 5 on the ice together ever assembled in the history of the game anywhere, any game, any generation!!

    Those 5 have the rare talent, especially skating, that would allow them to play at the highest level even in 2012.

    Bourque is right up there with Robinson and Orr in my books for #1 d-man of all time.

    Coffey might be the greatest skater I have ever seen – certainly he rivals Scott Niedermeyer and Orr skating from the defensive position.

    Messier played “big” for his era – tough- but man could he fly – his knee drive, his stride was as strong as anyone.

    And then there is literally 2 of the greatest of all time in Gretzky and Lemieux.

    I am a great fan of Beliveau, so I include him in any discussion of greatest of all time.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Sixty per cent of this combo hit the ice for the Oilers for eight or nine years.

      “May you live in interesting times.”

    • commandant says:

      That Group gave up a Short Handed goal against in the first period.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

    • rhino514 says:

      yes, it is. And wouldn´t it be great if things were done to open up the game today? There are players out there who are comparable talents but we will never know how they stack up against these legends. Sadly, a guy who hits eighty points today is equivalent to one who nabbed one hundred in those days. A guy can win the scoring title with 100 points. Only a guy like Crosby manages to put up other-worldy numbers, which is truly amazing given the close-checking nature of hockey today.

      • Cal says:

        It’s almost impossible to legislate more offense. Referees are told to ignore the rulebook. You see it every game. All the hooking, holding and interference and way late hits. The tools are already there to make the game more offensive, but the referees’ bosses won’t allow it. Isn’t it surprising one of those bosses is goon Colon Campbell, eh?

    • sprague cleghorn says:

      Don’t dispute what you say, but imagine that a single club team (not an all star national team) could ice the powerplay that the Habs could in the fifties — Doug Harvey and Boomer on D (for the point shot) with Beliveau centering Dickie Moore and the Rocket. No wonder they won five Cups in a row.

  14. Brent Sopel rips Chicago teachers: ‘Get back to work-you’re lucky to have a job’…
    The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site:
    Twitter: @teliopost

  15. Bash says:

    Watched Game #1 of the 87 series last night:
    Gretsky was amazing and Lemieux was just coming into his own…no secrets here 🙂
    The goonery displayed by Sutter, Tocchet, Propp and Andersen was blatant. Andersen also went into Eurosoccer contortions every time he was bumped and ran the goalie twice.
    At least one Russian was concussed.
    No Canadiens in sight!

    “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” (anon)

  16. JayK-47 says:

    So I went to Videotron last night to meet PK and get him to sign my boobs but… I was too late.

    But I got my NHL 13 and two Subban covers so I have that going for me.

    (What the heck do I do with these case covers?)

  17. JohnBellyful says:

    English is constantly enriched by scores of new words being added to the language each year, including eponyms, words that owe their creation to the name of a person or character who behaves in a noteworthy manner.
    Examples abound: boycott (Charles Boycott), bowdlerize (Thomas Bowdler), quixotic (Don Quixote).
    I suspect that Don Fehr and Gary Bettman will be joining their ranks in any number of ways:

    fehral – to demonstrate great patience and cunning while staying in command of members of a pack

    bettmanesque – the opposite of statuesque, both in stature and in dignity

    fehreal – an exclamation of disbelief when confronted with an unpleasant fact, such as an insulting and unrealistic offer made by employers in a contractual dispute: Is this fehreal? You gotta be kiddin’ me!

    bettmanicious – a baleful influence that creates a poisonous atmosphere, alienating even those not materially affected by its exercise

    fehry – a kind of tale where the ending remains uncertain, causing considerable angst among those most anxious to learn its conclusion

    bettmanoid – a mechanical device made to resemble the human-like masters it serves; prone to stoppages on a regular basis

  18. Boomer says:

    weird question,
    Are there limitations to what can be offered a player in terms of bonuses? the reason I ask is because it would be nice (and reasonable imo) to see PK signed to a 3-4 year deal at around 4 mil a year with said bonuses. He is still coming into his own as a player and the bonuses could kick in if he hits his potential. 4 mil sounds reasonable to me considering every situation he plays in and the ice time he receives. After the 3-4 year deal is up he could be in line for a decent raise if he hits that potential.

  19. HFX-HabFan says:

    Hmmm….guess it was around this time last year that “Bugs” went off the deep end. I don’t really miss him.

    • JohnBellyful says:

      I gotta tell you, I think this site has really gone downhill over the last 11 minutes. A lot of great posters contributed fantastic stuff 15, 20, 25 minutes ago but where are they now? It’s really depressing to see HIO decline so quickly.

      • ProHabs says:

        Hahahahahahahahahahaha. That is funny JohnBellyful. I also get a kick out of those that say the “old poster” were awesome and all the new ones are ruining the side. I would take 1 JohnBellyful over 20 Andrew Bird$hitters anyday.

  20. Boomer says:

    PK is gonna be on l’antichamber in a few minutes

  21. Billionaire owner Terry Pegula on lockout: ‘we all know that…there won’t be any lasting effect’…
    The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site:
    Twitter: @teliopost

  22. HabFab says:

    LouisJean_TVA – Bill Daly just confirmed NHL and NHLPA will talk tomorrow morning at 10am.

  23. Hobie Hansen says:

    So I’ll be just like every other addict in the world tonight and even though I’m miffed at the NHL and to a lesser extent the NHLPA, I’m anxious to watch 87 Canada CUP on TSN tonight.

    Saw some highlights this morning and some of the saves Grant Furh made were ridiculous. Also, totally forgot that Dominik Hasek was already good in 1987 and becoming a thorn in Canada’s side.

    • ABHabsfan says:

      I will never forget the ’87 Canada Cup because it was my first time in the Forum. My dad took me and my brother to see Sweden vs Canada. Already a huge Hab fan and Guy Lafleur fan, walking into the Forum gave me chills to finally be in the building I had read so much about when I was a kid. I was 14, never even heard of the term “Lock-out”
      I remember what struck me most about that game was not just the skill of Mario and Gretzky, but how good Ray Bourque was. Always in the right place and controlled the game, seemingly with no effort.

      “man, I love winnin’; you know, it’s like better than losin’?”-
      Ebby Calvin “Nuke” Laloosh

  24. SmartDog says:

    If you just got here, there are some funny Lawyer Jokes below.

    Also some discussion about Andrew Berkshire and someone mentioned “Andrew Berkshire rage” which is a pretty funny term. LOL But I get it. Let me say this first: Andrew Berkshire is a smart guy, a great and loyal habs fan, AND someone who goes further than most of us to put together and share his thoughts about the game and the team.

    But I think there’s a reason for “Andrew Berkshire rage” and it’s that when he was on here he could be an arrogant jerk. Maybe it’s because he was attacked so much for trying to prove that Gomez IS REALLY a GOOD PLAYER!!! (That also hit his credibility – how could it not… I mean at some point just say “okay I give up on that” and move on.) But I’ve disagreed with a lot of people on here (have I missed anyone??) and 90+% of those disagreements were respectful and led to interesting conversation or at least, funny barbs that weren’t offensive. But AB would sometimes attack the slightest difference while implying that you’re an idiot. That’s gonna piss people off, and it did, and it’s no surprise.

    But as for the top 25 thing that Andrew and others did this summer – bravo. It was the only consistent interesting thing on here. Besides me of course.

    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  25. on2ndthought says:

    OK, so say the Habs are not allowed to lockout. The other players are locked out and their contracts void?! Does that mean the Habs, a Laval team, one from Quebec City etc…. can sign Crosby, Ovechkin, etc… form a six team National(ist) Hockey League of Quebec and make us remember the good old days???

    Three hills apart great armies stir
    Spit oath and curse as day breaks
    Forming lines of horse and steel
    By even yards march forward.

    • commandant says:

      This is all about forcing Molson to pay the Habs players during the lockout.

      This would mean Molson would become a valuable voice in ownership meetings as he would not want to pay salary but be bringing in zero revenue.

      The players are doing the same in Alberta. The attempt is to force three owners into a situation where they can no longer support a lockout.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

  26. HabFab says:

    Some interesting quotes out of Bill Daly today;

    JFChaumont #NHL: ” This is primarily a negotiation over money. Last time, that was a negotiation over the nature of the system” – Bill Daly.

    RenLavoieRDS – Bill Daly:”I was encourage by the players first offer. But it was made on August 14th and they did not move since.”

    Abe Hefter ‏@hefteronthehabs – NHL’s Bill Daly tells AP failure to reach deal by now “a failure for which we both must share blame.”

    • Rozz says:

      I’m starting to like Mr. Daly a lil more … I mean he’s no saint but he’s ten times better than Bettman

      “When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.”

      Mark Twain.

  27. HabFab says:

    Another good article, sounds good about Markov and Quailler play.

  28. CoffinJR says:

    Did anyone go the the NHL 13 release party? Did you get your alternate sleeve?

    *Haters Gonna Hate*

  29. rhino514 says:

    The news in alberta and quebec could be great news. There is no way those owners can pay their players millions and not receive any income. If even one of the provinces sides with the players, i think we will see the end to the lockout very fast. There is no way the rest could sit idly by and watch the owners in those provinces lose millions because of a league enforced lock out. That would be ludicrous. I sincerely hope the players are succesful with their challenge. Apart from this ploy, the fact is they have very little leverage. They cannot afford to sit out nearly as long as the owners can.

  30. Marc10 says:

    The owners cannot wait indefinitely and the players have options and good council this time. I think Gary and his mates are going to get their just desserts this time.

    I don’t imagine Canadian team owners and those making a buck in the States are going to be overjoyed by the end result. They are going to lose a mint in this bloodbath.

    • HabFab says:

      So by anyone’s reckoning 2/3’s of the NHL teams are not financially healthy…so let us see, lose another $10ML to operate this season or lock out the players…hmmm?
      Buddy, the biggest losers in this mess are us fans!!

  31. HabsRepresente says:

    A great site that I’ve been reading lately is, it has great articles about the Habs and Players on the Habs and I feel it is very underrated. Go check it out and read the article’s , they’re very interesting!

  32. Bripro says:

    As a final update for all my hockey-starved co-consipirators, here’s more news (it might have already been posted…if so, apologies).

    NHL and the NHLPA have formally agreed on one point. Yes…you’re reading it right!
    A special period of 5 days is currently in effect (until 15 September) to allow teams to place players on waivers, so that they can play in the AHL this season.
    If this agreement had not occurred, veterans of the AHL (such as the Habs’ Mike Blunden) would not have been able to play in for their respective AHL teams.

    Normally, this would occur as of Sept. 19 or later, but since the lockout is forecasted to begin four days earlier, all players with two-way contracts would become unemployed, because there are no waivers during a lockout.
    When the lock-out ends, the teams will recall the players of the AHL who were put on waivers between September 10th and 15th, without being forced on re-entry waivers.
    This was announced yesterday.

    So they’ve actually agreed on something….well, that’s a start. I guess.

  33. Bripro says:

    Renaud Lavoie (RDS) tweets that the NHLPA might submit an offer today, and this was acknowledged by Bill Daly.

    On another note, in case it hasn’t been posted, the NHL have withdrawn their application for lock-out in Alberta, which the players have declared as a win.

    So I guess the Habs, Oilers and Flames will play each other for the cup.
    That’s the best odds any of these teams have had in years.

  34. Bripro says:

    Here’s Dave Stubbs from the Gazette and his podcast on the negotiation stalemate.

  35. Habfan10912 says:

    Could Seattle be on the list for an NHL team soon?


  36. frontenac1 says:

    What passes for ownership is a loud,giddy whirl of thieves and pretentious hustlers.A dull sideshow full of clowns,quacks and phillistines with gimp mentalities. Viva La Revolucion Amigos!!

  37. Wintercount says:

    Shouldn’t the fans have equal representation at these so called meetings?

    Don’t we care the most, suffer the most, and actually pay the most.

    Seems legit to me, eh!

    So lets nominate 3 from this site and send ’em to NYC, pronto…

  38. New says:

    I like the quotes about the lockout. Daly telling the world that laws don’t matter — then, oopsy, lets just cancel this little voyage.

    If you had the slighest intent of reaching an agreement why would you lock out the players? You have to figure the only way to make money is to get on with business and negotiate. Unless you’re not making money but losing it overall. Then gate, TV, none of that matters.

    Anyway I think they should hold camps and negotiate. At the very least some players may not show and the teams can suspend them while they play in Europe. That alone will pay a lawyer for an hour or so.

  39. otisfxu says:

    NFL works things out? Is that why Uncle Lester and cousin Billy Bob were reffing on Sunday?

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Did you mean Uncle Fester? 🙂


    • Storm Man says:

      Im sure if you took a poll on here and asked if the NHL had replacement officials or were locked out what would the fans enjoy? Officials don’t bring the NFL any money to the table so they will play hard ball with them as they should. I hope you and your cousin Billy Bob enjoy a few cold ones as you watch the games this weekend.

  40. Bripro says:

    I hate lawyers.
    I just came from our Lawyer’s office (company-related).
    Did I say that I hate lawyers?

    BTW on the hockey front, what education did Butthead receive?
    Oh…. law. Hmmph.

    Did I say how much I hate lawyers?

  41. Storm Man says:

    At this point I don’t give a **** about who is at fault. I look at the number one league in the world(NFL) and how they can work matters out . The NHL is going to look very bush league unless GB is sent packing.

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      You can’t blame George Bush for everything. 😉

    • Habilis says:

      Bettman is not the problem, he never has been. He’s simply a puppet for the owners.

      The problem, in this case, is that the players are refusing to acknowledge the fact that they have absolutely no leverage in these negotiations. The owners want more money, and they’re just going to wait until they get it. They can do this because none of them need the NHL. The players do.

      We already saw this movie and the storyline will be the same here. Either the players will cave early enough for some games to be played, or they’ll cave after the’ve lost an entire year off their careers.

      It’s just too bad that nobody is willing to explain to them that 50% of 3.3 billion is still alot of money.

      • Habfan10912 says:

        And for the owners 50% of 3.3 billion is a lot of money. Without a skilled workforce (players) there is NO 3.3 billion to collect. I hope the owners do not share your opinion or we are in trouble.


        • Habilis says:

          It’s not my opinion at all, it’s merely a statement of fact. The owners can and will outwait the players, that’s just the way it is.

          To be clear, I’m not condoning the owners’ greed in any way. In fact I find it pretty pathetic that these guys got everything they asked for 8 years ago and then spent the intervening time looking for more and more creative ways to circumvent their own rules (I get that GMs and agents are the ones doing this, but the owners have to ok everything).

          At the end of the day though, the owners hold all the cards at the negotiating table and if they want more money, they’re going to get it.

  42. Say Ash says:

    So any player that goes over to the KHL basically says they’re content making 35% less and relocating to the middle of nowhere.

  43. shiram says:

    KHL / Lockout stuff.

    The KHL earlier said they would not accept anyone coming over from the NHL setting out guidelines for whom could play in their league.
    Now they reveal those who cross over will be limited to a maximum of 65% of their NHL salaries.

    edit : here’s the link for “only top rated players”

  44. Habsman1970 says:

    3 words: Collective Bargaining Agreement!


  45. shiram says:

    I know a few on here liked to tease and make Andrew Berkshire rage, but I’ve followed Habs eye on the Prize all summer as they counted down their top 25 under 25 and I enjoyed what they put together.
    Now Andrew is doing another series, trying to review last season and do some prediction for the next one, and is first feature is on Plekanec, it is stats heavy, but he breaks it down some for more easy reading.
    Anyways, this is much more interesting to me than the latest CBA negotiations information, so here’s the link if anyone is interested.

  46. Malreg says:

    I noticed that the NHLPA has shifted their focus back to the whole “We can still play under the current agreement while we negotiate a new CBA” thing, trying to make the owners look like the bad guys and if there’s a lockout it’s all their fault.

    The league has almost no negotiating power while the players are still playing, and are still being paid, so obviously it’s not an option.

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      What can happen that would be so bad? They would play a year under the former agreement. Heck it’s worked this long, so why not let it run for another year since their offer was so late in coming? This sort of thing does happen in other sectors.

      • Malreg says:

        It does happen in other sectors, but they also frequently go several years before a new agreement is reached.

        That’s something the NHL is definitely not interested in.

  47. Propwash says:

    I don’t get why they call them negotiations when the two parties hardly speak to eachother.

    “Access Forbidden” gettin’ ya down?
    Hold down Shift while clicking refresh.

  48. BrianSkrudland says:

    Perhaps we should call upon Pope Benedict XVI, Buddhist monks, Islamic scholars, Tom Cruise, etc. to bring the NHL and NHLPA together in working towards finalizing a deal.

    Tom Cruise has accomplished a couple of impossible missions in his day.

    • shiram says:

      I wonder who has the highest Thethan levels, Fehr or Bettman?

      • BrianSkrudland says:

        Apparently, John Travolta has signed-on as a mediator to help speed along the negotiation process . Rumour is that he was confused and thought his role in a movie titled ‘Face/Off’ somehow qualified him for hockey related work.

        I’d say that Emilio Estevez is more qualified as a hockey guru considering his impeccable leadership experience as evidenced in the Mighty Ducks movie franchise.

  49. Hali_Hab says:

    So Seguin signed for 6 years. What the hell is going on with the Subban “talks”

    • Kooch7800 says:

      I think Sequin is a little more developed than PK. I love PK don’t get me wrong but defense usually takes a little longer to master than a forward position.

      I have a bad feeling PK will be signed after the CBA dust settles. You want to lock him up long term but in the same sense he needs to earn it a bit. A 2 or 3 year deal IMO would be about right and then he gets a major raise if he continues to develop

      • commandant says:

        With Hall, Eberle, and Pacioretty all signing extensions the precedent for Seguin is set and contract negotiations relatively easy.

        PK’s comparables, Carlson, Del Zotto, and Kulikov all remain unsigned.

        Go Habs Go!
        Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

        • Kooch7800 says:

          Also 100% true. D men are also a lot tougher to negotiate. Look a contracts like Doughty and him been held out last year as an example. If you toss too much money you could end up with a Phaneuf contract or Bouwmeester deal. Not fun.

          Phaneuf looked like a star in his first couple years and now is a shadow of his former self and has a huge contract

    • commandant says:

      10 teams 15 players signing contracts of 6 years or more since July 1st. But the owners demand is to limit contracts to 5 years.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

      • shiram says:

        This is what boggles my mind, they are doing things they want to abolish, are they just trying to protect themselves from themselves?
        I understand the rationale behind giving those deals now as it’s faire and legit, but if you are pushing to have such deals abolished, they should not be handing them out in the first place.

        • Cal says:

          If the owners sign everyone to 5 years or less, the NHLPA will cry “Collusion” and sue the league. This way they can’t.

          • commandant says:

            10 teams, 15 players is far beyond that.

            And good luck proving collusion on length of contracts. You can’t force someone to sign an inherently risky long term deal. Unless the NHLPA had emails between owners (or something similar) saying no one gets a contract of more than 5 years this summer it would be near impossible to prove collusion.

            Heck the NFLPA’s collusion suit has failed, and they have the league enforcing penalties on the Cowboys for spending too much money in the “uncapped year” that ended the last CBA.

            Collusion may have been proven by baseball in the 80s, but they had a smoking gun so to speak. Its not as easy a case to make today, and certainly not on these facts.

            As long as the players were getting fair market value on deals 5 years or less, they wouldn’t be able to prove collusion.

            Go Habs Go!
            Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

      • Kooch7800 says:

        Makes you wonder how united they actually are

  50. ed lopaz says:

    so at 8 million per year its safe to say that Bettman is a very rich man. he and his family will never have to worry about money.

    so Gary, now it’s about your legacy – how will you be remembered?

    I think that if this goes to a lockout there are 3 sure bets that follow:

    1) Bettman’s legacy will be ruined – he will always be remembered as the commissioner who imposed lock outs, and failed to negotiate CBA deals while unduly harming the game.

    2) Bettman will NOT survive this. The owners will keep him on through 1 more season just to save face, but he will be replaced, and not by Daly.

    3) the “plan” to expand to Phoenix and Florida and Columbus needs to be re-worked – it is a total failure – and Bettman’s refusal to give this up is costing the league very badly needed credibility.

    So all you fans out there who have a hate on for Bettman, there is a silver lining at the end of this.

    Geoff Molson will lead a group of decent, logical, rational owners who will force Bettman and his “plan” out of the game.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      If the game continues to grow and the owners make more money the lock outs are a moot point.

      Since the last lock out the revenues went from 2 billion to 3 billion. That is all that matters. The worst part is a lot of that has to do with exchange rates as well

    • Timo says:

      Ed, as a very rich man, I am sure Gary doesn’t give rat’s a$$ about what his legacy is and how others think of him. I know I wouldn’t.

      • BrianSkrudland says:

        As a rather poor man I wish I was a very rich man. If I were a rich man, however, oh, the trouble I’d get into!

        Time to sing from the Fiddler on the Roof playbook, for me.

    • Cal says:

      1. Bettman is in it for the money; his legacy is secured.
      2. Bettman will survive this. You and all other fans hate him, but we are not his bosses. The owners are and he is following what they want to do.
      3. Phoenix is the only real failure here. San Jose and Anaheim have given LA natural rivals and they will do ok.

      Assuming a junior owner like Molson has more of a say than others is strtching it a little bit. Besides, the words “decent, logical, rational owners” is an oxymoron. 😉

    • DorvalTony says:

      Geddy gives a shi* about that. Money money money. More money.

      That is his legacy of greed.

  51. jeffhabfan says:

    All the talk with the CBA is just sad LETS JUST PLAY HOCKEY.

  52. Mattyleg says:

    Renaud Lavoie just Tweeted that Tyler Seguin just signed with the Booins: 6 years, $5.75m/yr average.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • Kooch7800 says:

      I was watching hockey central yesterday and Nick Kyprios was just talking in general about different players and was saying that Sequin will probably be looking for around 5.75 with a 6 year deal….he was bang on

    • shiram says:

      Sounds like a decent deal to me, but it does not help with the Subban situation, a young player on his second contract getting such a massive deal. Just like Hall and Eberle.
      It also undermines the NHL’s position on ELC and free agency…

      • bwoar says:

        Absolutely it undermines the ‘second contract’ that’s supposed to benefit clubs. It’s hard to argue with Seguin’s camp wanting fair market value, but then, if there’s a constant in the NHL, it’s that GMs/owners need protection from themselves.

        I’m not too worried about the possible fallout vis a vis Subban, however, since the Habs have been pretty stringent with regards to RFAs and keeping in the spirit of the system. At this point only an offer sheet is likely to put Bergevin over the top in terms of paying more than he wants to.

        If the rumoured 3-year, 4M per yr avg. deal goes through it’ll be absolutely correct.

        But right now: no hockey, no worries!

    • JUST ME says:

      Seguin is an excellent player ,above average that anyone would like to have on their team. But at 20 however good you are if you are making 5.75, how much will you make at 26 ? There s always a good reason to give those deals but it does show that they are out of control and in an upward tendancy as if the owners were crossing their fingers and hoping that by then….

      How can you negociate for the CBA if you are always going all in on the big deals ?

      • Cal says:

        That’s the idiocy of the situation. My simple solution:
        No contracts of more than 5 seasons and no seasons with less value than the previous season, period. No one player can earn more than 10% of the salary cap. No signing bonuses. The amount a player is signed for goes against the cap. Eliminate “no movement” and “no trade” clauses. Buyouts do NOT count toward the cap. All contracts are “two way.”
        Fine teams that go over the cap at 5 times the amount they are over and the loss of a draft pick.

    • Bripro says:

      That’s a lot of money for a first full contract, bringing him to UFA status afterward.
      Subban will be looking for the same.
      If the earlier rumour of 3 years is true, then it might be worth close to that.
      Seguin is a good player, but making just under $6MM?

  53. melski says:

    nothing will ever change until “fans” stop jumping over one another to buy tickets, stop lapping up every piece of logo-ed junk and start cancelling their cable subsciptions. unfortuneately, “fans” are as fiscally irresponsible as NHL general managers.

    it may be a great game, but still only a game.

    • Mattyleg says:

      You’re right.
      We shouldn’t buy tickets to watch hockey games.
      We should read books instead.
      Problem there, is that writers would become millionaires then, and we’d be in the same position with Publishing Houses vs. the Writers’ Union.

      Back to Plan A then.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • showey47 says:

      It may be only a game,but its a game that anybody here would sell their soul to play at that level and collect that type of paycheck for doing it. Even if it meant once in a while having a labour dispute which results in screwing over the fans.Anybody telling me different is full of $hit.

  54. Ian Cobb says:

    Any players that are locked out of their jobs here, are open to sign contracts in Europe or anywhere for the season, and are not obliged to return, this year or ever.!

    • B says:

      Players who are under NHL contracts when the league resumes will be in violation of those contracts if they don’t return.

      Most (all?) European leagues have agreements in place to prevent them from using and paying players who have valid NHL contracts (barring an NHL lock out). The KHL sometimes plays it a little loose with RFAs who are not under an NHL contract (but who’s rights still belong to an NHL team), but they do NOT use players who are under signed contracts with the NHL (unless the NHL is locked out). When European leagues do use a locked out NHL player, the contracts are such that the player is free to go once the NHL resumes. I can not think of any player who has played in Europe while under a signed NHL contract and while the NHL is playing (unless they have been given permission by their NHL team – Huet for example).

      I have heard of players who refused to play and honour their signed NHL contracts, but I have not heard of any NHL team that refused to honour a signed contract with a player.

  55. HabinBurlington says:

    I am normally not a proponent of violence. However, I am feeling like Cal these days, as the anger I develop when hearing, seeing or even knowing that Bettman or Fehr is talking is almost uncontrollable.

    It is at times like this when two egos so large refuse to acknowledge what the other side is saying, that I think what may be best is for the two of them to have an old fashioned schoolyard fight.

    I know who would win, but at least it would be dealt with.

    Okay Gary and Don? 4:30 behind the band room portable, Be There!

  56. arcosenate says:

    When it reaches the point where the NHLPA would attempt to block a lock out for Canadian based teams without realizing this would also mean there can be no strike either it’s time to turn the other way for a while.

    The NFL should have scheduled Saturday evening games, people would tune in across Canada. Oh well, maybe next year when there’s still no hockey.

  57. Bripro says:

    “Obviously disappointing that the PA wants to spend its time and money trying to start legal fights and refusing to negotiate,”

    Are you kidding me? He claims to want to negotiate, but their first verbal recourse is to threaten a lock-out?
    I know why Butthead and company think we’re the best fans in the world.
    They think we’re the most gullible.

  58. Kooch7800 says:

    Great article by Big head Mckenzie

  59. habs-hampton says:

    From tsn:

    “Generally in a lockout situation management shouldn’t be … socializing with the locked-out labour,” said Daly. “They aren’t employees during the duration of the lockout.”

    Sunday dinner with Colin and Greg Campbell must be awfully quiet! lol

  60. RetroMikey says:

    There will be no NHL hockey this season. Sad but true. The quote by Gordon Gekko in the old 1987 retro movie Wall Street…. “Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures, the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge, …..” I guess the owners and players learned a thing or two from this movie.

    “We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “

  61. Cal says:

    The number of posts on this subject demonstrate how most of us are sick to death of this stupidity. By this time of year, we’d be wading through about 100 to 150 posts about our prospects and the team’s chances, etc.
    Instead, we are treated to nonsense. As a fan of the NHL, I am (almost) too angry to think coherently every time one of these lawyers gets in front of the cameras to yammer.
    This is a bummer of nationwide proportion. 🙁

    • Mustang says:

      Cal, it appears that the only people that really care about the game are the fans. Let’s not forget that this is a business for the owners, players, agents, trainers, coaches, etc. The worst part is that the owners and players do not give a damn about us. All they want is for us to pay our hard earned dollars for their product.

      Sadly, most arenas will be packed with screaming fans once the billionaires and millionaires decide how they are going to split the pie. I have been a fan of the Montreal Canadiens virtually my whole life but I must admit it is getting harder and harder to be a fan of this game.

      • Cal says:

        The game has been in trouble ever since NHL HQ moved out of the Sunlife Building in Montreal. When there’s only lawyers and a few thugs (Hi Colon Campbell) running things, we shouldn’t expect anything better.

    • JF says:

      Totally agree. Whatever happens, this mess has already robbed us (the fans) of our usual pre-season anticipation. Right now we should be counting off the days until training camp, the first pre-season game, the first real game. We should be looking forward to watching our young prospects, arguing about who will make the cut, wondering how Therrien will do in his second go-round, even discussing line combinations. Instead, all that has become pointless. All we can do is watch in anger and bafflement as the days slip by towards what now appears to have been inevitable right from the start.

  62. homerbowen says:

    If there can be a bright side to all this nonsense it’s that we won’t have to see or listen to Don Cherry and his laff cheerleading.

  63. Ian Cobb says:

    Players have won round one of the war with Alberta and Quebec labor laws!
    NHLPA’s challenge of lockout legality.

    But with so much money involved, and the strong northern cities, (our Fan money mind you!) keeping the Sunbelt cities afloat, this fight is going to get very messy indeed.

    Lets have our own Canadian league and the States can have theirs, the two winning teams play for the Cup. Or maybe even a European league as the 3rd division of the NHL.

    Why should Canadians and northern U.S. cities keep this league sponsored and afloat?? Much to expensive for a family to enjoy going to a game anymore.

  64. Captain aHab says:

    Who cares? I’m gonna look at getting a package to watch the Dawgs on-line. Screw the primadonnas….if they wanna sit for a year or go and play for the KGB Hockey League, then let them.

    Once they’re done pouting, then they can come back to the real world where most people don’t make millions each year. Not interested in following such a ridiculous story.

    Me skull and crossbones arn’t the only thing I plan on raisin’ tonight.

  65. Old Bald Bird says:

    I don’t see why we should blame Fehr or the players for not negotiating sooner. They aren’t the ones who want to change the agreement. It was the owners who waited forever to decide what they were going after, and it is the owners who have taken such a hard line.

    • commandant says:

      For all the talk that the owners were willing to negotiate sooner, they didn’t submit their financial disclosure to the players (nearly 75,000 pages of it) until mid August. This was 3 weeks after their initial proposal.

      How could you expect the players to negotiate without the finances to examine?

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I see your point, but using that logic, then shouldn’t every player be willing to accept a new contract the same as their last contract? PK should be happy then with 850grand per year, afterall it is the same as last years agreement.

      Obviously that is a ridiculous notion, but the agreement was a contract between the NHLPA and the Owners. whether the owners are wrong or not for wanting to change, they have every right to want to make changes to it.

      • Ian Cobb says:

        The can of worms has been opened and left on the ground Gerald, it is going to get very messy trying to get them all back in the bottle now.
        Only when one side or the other start hurting, will they start to negotiate in earnest and good faith. I am afraid that we are far from that point,.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          Ian, what I think is the most shameful in all of this is that the negotiations taking place have nothing to do with making the game safer or more enjoyable for players and fans.

          Given all the research we have seen (including your helpful posts on concussions) this critical aspect of the game (head injuries) isn’t even a lead point in the negotiations. It has and appears to always will be, about Money.

          • Ian Cobb says:

            Humans! they are all so greedy, each having his or her agenda and they are such a pain in the butt to deal with. Give me a good dog or fishing poll anytime.

      • Old Bald Bird says:

        I see personal contracts and league-union agreements as two separate realities. The former is based (supposedly) on an individual’s worth and the latter is a general agreement about operating procedures (probably the wrong phrase). I don’t see what one has to do with the other.

        It is the owners who want to change the agreement. I am not saying they shouldn’t but I’m addressing posts below which villify the players for not negotiating sooner. Basically, there was nothing to negotiate because the owners hadn’t made a proposal and the players were happy with the status quo. From the players point of view, there was nothing to negotiate until the owners demanded many concessions.

        Although there may be greed on both sides as some point out, I don’t see the players as asking for more, but the league certainly is, and the league is forcing the lockout. Many unions work for lengths of time without a new contract, and the players seem to be willing to do so now, but the league is being quite unbending. I simply can’t see the players as the villians in this piece.

        • HabinBurlington says:

          I know they are completely different, I just think end of day both sides know what is important to the other, and neither wishes to help the other.

          • Old Bald Bird says:

            I “hear” your frustration, here and above, but my last word (because I know I get tiresome 🙂 ) is that the players are at least willing to play as negotiations continue, and the league is not. Sometimes, one side must take more blame than the other, and I think that in this case, it’s, without question, the league. That was my original point and by cricky, I’m sticking to it. 😉

  66. I’m looking forward to a lockout…at least one that wipes out the pre-season…I hate having to pay full price for 5 worthless pre-season games as part of the season tickets package!
    The greatest Canadiens and NHL news-site:
    Twitter: @teliopost

  67. rhino514 says:

    Of course I admit that my priorities are completely misplaced, but I feel bad for the veterans if the season is lost. Guys like Eric Cole and Brian Gionta, they may have only one or two really good seasons left. If you look at production trends by age, production starts to drop off quite noticeably after 32, 33. For whatever reason that didn´t happen to Cole last year, but eventually time will catch up. Especially in the case of Cole, the habs were counting on the first couple of years to offset what could be less productive years in years 4 and 5. We still need productive veterans like Cole and Gionta for the next couple of years to compete. The prospects in the system are nowhere near ready.

  68. wildwilly says:

    I no longer care about the lockout. I am following the Bulldogs and patiently wait for the current bad contracts to expire. For me 2013/2014 can’t come soon enough.

    • Jim Edson says:

      Might be rid of CBC/HNIC too!

      What does the Commissioner of the NHL do?

      In short, a league commissioner is the action man for the Board of Governors.

      They tell him what they want done and he works to make it happen through his subordinates while making sure that individual franchises play by the rules.

      ******** Translated if you haven’t won the Stanley Cup in 40 years your NHL team is becoming irrelevant in a sports mad city long behind MLB, NFL and NBA teams, you just tell the commissioner(who you gave a new contract at 7 plus million per) to make it happen and the rules are bent sufficiently to action the command.

  69. Habsman1970 says:

    Yeah, I agree with Cal and am over the greed in the game (from both sides). Back in 04/05 I was pretty let down that we lost an entire season and followed the talks very closely, but this time around I pretty much want to tell both sides to “go to h##l” (GTH) as I am pretty much over it. They have had 8 years to figured this all out and waited until the 11th hour to do something about it and are now ready to blow off ANOTHER season. I have owned many business in my lifetime and the LAST thing we ever did when we had a major conflict like this was to wait weeks on end before meeting (or continue on with discussions). We pretty much sat in a room and hammered things out until they were resolved (or at least until we found that happy-medium for all parties), so for the NHL and NHLPA to handle something so huge in such a “oh-hum” approach pretty much makes me want to (again) tell them to GTH. Screw’em all.


  70. Jim Edson says:

    If the latest labour moves from the Habs players were meant to “jumpstart” the negotiations why wait till now?

    Why wasn’t Fehr ordered by his constituents to get talks open a year ago rather than wait until less than a month from CBA expiration?

    Fehr ran around for how many months gathering “consensus” which could have been done electronically in a week!

    Makes you wonder who really wanted to provoke a lockout!

    What does the Commissioner of the NHL do?

    In short, a league commissioner is the action man for the Board of Governors.

    They tell him what they want done and he works to make it happen through his subordinates while making sure that individual franchises play by the rules.

    ******** Translated if you haven’t won the Stanley Cup in 40 years your NHL team is becoming irrelevant in a sports mad city long behind MLB, NFL and NBA teams, you just tell the commissioner(who you gave a new contract at 7 plus million per) to make it happen and the rules are bent sufficiently to action the command.

  71. Habfan10912 says:

    The very worst of mankind revealed the very best in mankind.
    Hope for peace for all. 9-11.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Many of us feel sadness today and remember that Canada is among the luckiest in having a noble and close friend in America. Al-Qaeda murdered approximately 24 Canadians in the WTC which is a huge number of families to have devastatingly harmed, small though when placed alongside the huge number of American families still in grief.

      The quest for peace IS the Holy Grail, and not the literal chalice depicted in movies. John Lennon encaptured the deep spiritual sentiment with his ingenue song composition in 1971, and recently, Emmanuel Kelly sang it for the world and reconnected many with the nobility that is hidden inside the human form, and hopefully not hidden forever.

      “May you live in interesting times.”

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Good Morning Jim, all the best today as you reflect on that horrendous day. I know you are a retired firefighter from the state of New York, you and your brothers had a very hard day 11 years ago, we haven’t forgotten how many lost their lives in bravery. God Bless my friend.

  72. Cal says:

    So the NHLPA is having a mass gathering on Wednesday and Thursday. Big whoop. They all get to stand behind Beavis for another photo op. Way to negotiate, you idiots.

    Both sides pocket more money in a few years that most will see in their lifetimes, but that’s not the issue. The issue is always about how much more can I get. I wish both Beavis and Butthead ill. ImbecilesRUs™ should be their new monikers. ImbecilesRUs™ and ImbecilesRUsPA™.

    • Jim Edson says:

      Just another Fehr “love-in”!

      What does the Commissioner of the NHL do?

      In short, a league commissioner is the action man for the Board of Governors.

      They tell him what they want done and he works to make it happen through his subordinates while making sure that individual franchises play by the rules.

      ******** Translated if you haven’t won the Stanley Cup in 40 years your NHL team is becoming irrelevant in a sports mad city long behind MLB, NFL and NBA teams, you just tell the commissioner(who you gave a new contract at 7 plus million per) to make it happen and the rules are bent sufficiently to action the command.

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