About last night …

MaxCelebrate

Is Max Pacioretty the best bargain in the NHL?
His three goals against Vancouver gave Hat-cioretty (apologies: I just love that one) 26 goals in the 49 games he’s played.
Pacioretty is on a contract that pays him $4.5 million and runs through the 2018-’19 season.
Tomas Plekanec and Brian Gionta are the Canadiens’ highest-paid forwards. Each makes $5 million.
Plekanec has 17 goals.
Gionta has 10.
Daniel Brière makes $500,000 less than Pacioretty and has scored nine goals this season.
So just call him Max Walmart: Great value at everyday low prices.

And of course, Pacioretty could have had five goals had he connected on those two penalty shots.

During the Canadiens’ recent travails, I haven’t been the biggest Max Pacioretty fan. Benoit Brunet on RDS has called him a “finesse player in a power forward’s body.”

Pacioretty’s reluctance to use that big body in greater proximity to opponents’ goal creases is a source of some frustration … the more so because so few of his teammates, large or small, play in the dirty areas.

But what the heck, Pacioretty is what he is. And while it might be nice to have him playing more like Brendan Gallagher, 26 goals is nothing to sneeze at (or, in Max-Pac’s case, bleed over).

The Canadiens’ leading scorer has excellent chemistry with David Desharnais, and Gallagher’s non-stop motor and ready willingness to sacrifice his body makes their unit clearly the Canadiens’ number 1 line.

What’s been pleasing, in this week’s wins over Calgary and Vancouver, is the evolution of some stability among the team’s other forwards.

Although subbed for defensive purposes in the third period, Daniel Brière has played his best hockey with Tomas Plekanec and Brian Gionta.

The newly-minted fourth line, which was outstanding against Calgary, had another solid night. Ryan White notched his first goal of the season and went 6-2 on faceoffs. Newcomer Dale Weise – a really good skater for a man his size – picked up an assist and put in some time on the penalty-kill. Let’s hope Michäel Bournival’s injury is not serious enough to derail a fourth line that is giving the Canadiens quality minutes.

The Lars Eller line got physical play from Rene Bourque and Brandon Prust, but I’m looking forward to the return of Alex Galchenyuk after the Olympic break. I’d like to see the kid playing centre by the end of the season, but that likely will be contingent on the Canadiens making some trade-deadline moves.

•  •  •

A W is a W, and the Canadiens remain in third place in the Atlantic Division.

But let’s not line up our spots for the Cup parade just yet, eh?

Vancouver was missing Dan Hamhuis, Kevin Bieksa plus three other defencemen.

Oh, and Henrik Sedin didn’t play.

And they outshot the Canadiens 44-29.

OK, back to sunny optimism.

•  •  •

Carey Price won the duel of Team Canada goaltenders.

Price, who made 42 saves, has elevated his game leading up to Sochi. Since that dreadful 5-0 loss to Washington, Price has shut out Carolina and Carolina and held Tampa Bay, Winnipeg and Vancouver to two goals.

He’s hot.

Roberto Luongo?

Maybe not.

•  •  •

Douglas Murray played almost 17 minutes despite missing a few shifts after taking a wicked shot on his nakle.

Murray had a couple of hits and blocked four shots. The big Swede has pretty much nailed down a starting  job and is an ideal complement to Nathan Beaulieu, who is gaining confidence with each game.

P.K. Subban engineered the first goal of the game and was plus-2 . But his three giveaways and frequent u-turns back into the Canadiens zone on skating forays reinforced the perception that P.K. hasn’t been himself lately.

 

 

 

 

460 Comments

  1. RetroMikey says:

    “We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “

  2. habs-fan-84 says:

    Would have been nice to see Edward Snowden make an appearance during the opening ceremony…oh well, maybe the closing ceremony ;)

  3. DipsyDoodler says:

    Holy Moly! I wasn’t wrong!

    Tatu, snowflakes, a male chorus, a Queen song (!!!)…

    A staging of “YMCA” with Putin playing the part of all 5 Village People is the only thing missing.

  4. Bripro says:

    That floor screen in the Olympic stadium is unbelievable!”

  5. Sportfan says:

    As annoying as Ron Mclean can be he has always done his best with the Olympics.

    Sports and Entertainment in the link click and enjoy, clicking is fun!
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  6. HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

    habs are good enough to make cup run now and in the next couple years . So with that said yes, you need Andrei Markov.

    True, we are having trouble scoring goals, but weve been building a very strong defensive team system. We have a strong Goalie who is starting to peak now. WE have a strong Defencemen corpse and honestly the defence wins championships. With a strong goalie come stanly cup playioff time its really your top 4 that will matter. Our top 4 is PK Subban. Andrei Markov, Josh Georges, and Alexi Yemelin. Bouillon and Beaulieu will played sparingly in the play-offs and Murray will be a Penatly kill Specialist. They need to make a trade to beef up that top 4. I like a guy like Giordano, or someone who is more of a defensive defencemen who can preferably hit and play big minutes. this peice is vital for the team to go deep this year and the next few. We need the best possible players in front of Carey Price since this is the strength of our team and considering that top pair dman will be playing 30 min each or half the game we could have shut down pairings the entire game.

    The only way to relize this for this season is via trade. Alex Galchunk is pencilled in as our number one center of the future, Tomas PLeknec as your defensive 2nd line center, Lars eller on your checking line, where does this leave David Deharnais? will the habs keep them together forever? is david deharnais good enough as our number one centerman to win the cup vs a guy like Jonathan Towes? when will the Canadiens match Galchenyuk with Patchrietty and Gallagher? if DD gets you a guy like Giorando jump on it, throw in bouruqe make calagry have him back, free some cap, we have extra forwards and this move coould, getting another top 2 defenceman will give a huge push going for the cup.

  7. Maritime Ronn says:

    Just watched Slovakia come marching in with big smile Chara as flag bearer.

    Chara actually looked human…and not Nephilim.
    Sorry Bruin haters, yet that was a class act by Chiarelli to allow Chara to miss last night’s game against the Blues and this Saturday against the Sens to be able to experience the honour.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Chiarelli seems to do most things well. Still can’t help but think had we beaten them couple years ago Neely was going to tie a can to Chiarelli and Julien, could have set that franchise back a decade. We were so close…. bad memories.

      • CJ says:

        I just wish he would have done the Senators a favor.

        He is a great GM. No denying that.

        • CJ says:

          Sorry, should have said have not done the Senators a favor.

        • Maritime Ronn says:

          CJ
          Sens still 5 points back of the Habs – and if they ever catch the Habs, it will be more about Montreal falling flat than Ottawa/Chara

          • CJ says:

            I agree. My hate for the Sens was certainly dripping through my post.

            I just don’t like how they constantly seem to get breaks. I’ve never seen a team face the opposition’s back up more then Ottawa.

            Again, I think it was a classy move.

          • CJ says:

            The Sens have one of, if not the easiest remaining schedules. Look at their next ten games compared to our next ten. That said, we control our own destiny and if we can keep winning it will not matter what someone else does.

      • Maritime Ronn says:

        burli
        I believe back then Chiarelli was safe and it was Julien they wanted out. A little tough now with a Cup win and a Cup final…but you never know with Boston.
        See Terry Francona.

    • Bripro says:

      I hear they had to re-design that tunnel entrance because he’s so tall.
      He kept banging his head and was heard yelling out;
      “I have a concuss-arety!”

    • Cal says:

      I wish him nothing but ill. Chara can stab himself with that flagpole for all I care. He is naught but a gigantic piece of sh*t.

  8. DDO_Habs_Fan says:

    RE: what the Habs could receive if they trade Markov.

    This is all dependent on what the market demand is. That being said, I cannot imagine a scenario better than this year where you have so many teams in the West who are serious contenders and need offense from the back end. I don’t think it would be unreasonable to get a prospect and a 1st or 2nd round pick.

    • bwoar says:

      I think we can get a 1st, a prospect and a roster D if there is real interest from 3-4 teams. Not saying the players involved will be tremendous, but the assets are out there and there’s only one Markov.

      There are 3 teams in the East that could use that help too, so, factor that in. Imagine if Letang has to sit after his stroke. The Pens with for sure be looking for a backup plan at this point.

      “thoroughbred”

    • Cal says:

      And then he signs back with the Habs next year for 2 more years.

    • commandant says:

      The issue with moving Markov is that it leaves you without a #2 defenceman next year. There is no one on the team who fills that void.

      So you have to look for a #2 in the summer, and the free agent crop is thin.

      So then you are forced to trade for a number two… and now you aren’t gettting a rental, but a guy signed for at least a full season or more. The cost would likely be similar types of assets to what you just acquired for Markov.

      So really would you be any further ahead? And in the meantime your number 2 D is gone for the rest of the season and playoffs.

      Isn’t it just easier to resign Markov til the kids develop and can take his role?

      Go Habs Go!
      Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • krob1000 says:

        Niskanen and Girardi are interesting

      • dr. gesundheit says:

        I’m just concerned that it put’s him another year beyond his “best before date”. Yes, I know Lidstrom was into his 40′s as a (still) very effective d’man.

        We have seen some (understandable) decline in his level of play of late…but he could still (this year) go as a rental (to a # of contenders who could use him) and bring back a good return.

      • CJ says:

        If he is willing to take a 1 or 2 year deal I agree that this would make sense. However, if he is stuck on 3-5 years, it gets pretty difficult to justify the extension.

        I think Markov’s replacement is currently wearing number 40. At the risk of raising expectations, Beaulieu has a greater skill set then Markov and his ceiling suggests he could become a more complete player, however that is down the road. It is up to Bergevin and the leadership team to figure out how long that road might be. It could be next year, five years or worse case scenario, never materialize.

        Lots to weigh. As Eddie suggested yesterday, it’s a very difficult file.

        • krob1000 says:

          Markov in his prime pre injury was elite….he ws a great defender and was like Lidstrom in that his stick and lane work was incredible…post injury only the offensive side and a limited range of motion has resulted…way better this year than last and at least his skating is acceptable now but he will never defend like he did before. Beulieu would do well to become an Andrei Markov…tha tis pretty hefty company when he was a top 10 dman in the NHL a few years ago

      • Ozmodiar says:

        He won’t be a #2 in a couple years. The Habs have a chance to acquire some much needed prospects/picks. They should do it.

    • boing007 says:

      Want a ready to play and contribute to the Habs’ fortunes player if MB trades Markov. Nothing less.

      Richard R

  9. arcosenate says:

    Letang had a stroke.

  10. Eddie says:

    This week Martin St Louis got me thinking about very small centres who can actually succeed in the NHL, especially in the playoffs, once they are moved to the wing.

    I think the Habs should try Desharnais on the wing. Keep him with Max, for sure. But move him to the wing so the line has a chance to succeed in the playoffs. Desharnais is just too small to play center, during the NHL playoffs, next to our number one scorer.

    We would need a big puck retrieving center who could play between Max and Desharnais on the wings.

    Clearly that player should be Lars Eller.

    This will also reunite Galchenyuk with Gallagher.

    I think this coud work in so many ways.

    • Habsrule1 says:

      You might be right. The theory is good. Personally, I really don’t think Eller is a #1 centre. He could be a decent 2nd liner or very good 3rd liner.

      I think that Galchenyuk would fill the role between Max & Desharnais much better than Eller.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

      • Eddie says:

        I don’t think Galchenyuk is tough enough physically for this years playoffs. And he hasn’t yet been tested at center.

        I’m talking about this year.

        • dr. gesundheit says:

          Yes. He’s still very young…will need to pack on a few more pounds to deal with the additional physicality/intensity.

        • Habsrule1 says:

          Agreed for this year then. I’d try it but I just don’t see that offensive upside in Eller.

          Of course I hope I’m wrong. It has happened before.

          Go Habs Go!!

          “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • punkster says:

      Best suggestion for the use of DD and Eller I’ve read on here in…well…months? Years?

      Still SUBBANGIN’ BABY…
      but…
      ELLER IS STELLAR!!!

    • Forum Dog says:

      I’m not sure Desharnais could be an effective winger. His effectiveness is in his playmaking, and if you put him along the wall he loses access to some of those passing lanes. He will definitely not win any battles, and I wouldn’t want to see him trying and clear the zone on pucks thrown around the boards. Pinching defencemen would eat his lunch. It would also put a degree of separation between him and Pacioretty, which could short-circuit their “chemistry”.

      I can see the St. Louis analogy, but Marty is stronger, faster, more skilled, and more competitive/tenacious that DD could ever hope to be. Not saying it couldn’t be tried, but I don’t see it being a good permanent option.

    • bwoar says:

      DD cannot play the wing. Already tried it, it’s a no-go. And we already know Pacioretty can’t have anyone else at centre. Frankly if he can score 40 goals with Desharnais, it’s 8M well spent. I just wish they had a different RW.

      “thoroughbred”

    • Dave Jones says:

      I’d like the Habs to get the Kid line reunited this year. This depends on Max and DD continuing to play like a top line without Gallagher–so it may not be possible. But if it is, if we can find that replacement winger, then I see the Habs coming together nicely for this year’s postseason:

      Offensive #1 & 2:
      Pacioretty – DD – [New Guy]
      Galchenyuk – Eller – Gallagher

      Checking/Two-Way:
      Briere/Moen/Prust/[or New Guy] – Plekanec – Gionta

      Energy:
      Wiese – White – Bournival/Prust/Moen

      Obviously I’d like to see a trade or two. Briere can play with Pleks and Gio but this hurts that line’s checking capacity. And there may not be a replacement for Gallagher–you’d be looking for a guy to join our top line, and keep it there–that allows the Kid line to become secondary scoring. But I like that all these guys can play. They need to ship Bourque out, and can consider moving some combination of Moen, Briere, prospects. But Eller is seriously wasted right now playing with non-offensive wingers.

  11. Sportfan says:

    Slovakia has the ugliest flag-bearer, oh wait its Chara, MAKES SENSE!

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  12. jimmy shaker says:

    Great to see Canada walking out there in Sochi…….praying for safety for everyone there at the games! Go Canada! Proud and strong!

    Shaker out!

  13. commandant says:

    Kris Letang had a stroke
    http://lastwordonsports.com/2014/02/07/kris-letang-suffers-stroke/

    HOLY CRAP.

    Thoughts with him.

    Go Habs Go!
    Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  14. Kooch7800 says:

    Not a trade rumour at all just posting for the sake of discussion.

    Lars Eller for Chris Stewart in St Louis….

    . Both big and gives us a big winger with similar numbers and close enough in age and could replace Gionta

    “Keep your stick on the Ice”

    • HabinBurlington says:

      If this team is adamant about keeping DD, then the trading of Eller seems inevitable. He is at his best playing center, therefore moving him for a winger is logical.

      I just still am hoping this is not the direction the team will go. Not out of dislike or hate for any player on team, just what I hope.

      • Kooch7800 says:

        I am hoping they keep Eller but DD doesn’t really seem to be every going anywhere and Max and him are best buds and with Chucky coming up as a centre we have a log jam and need wingers.

        Not saying it is the best move but Chris Stewart isn’t so bad either

        “Keep your stick on the Ice”

      • Eddie says:

        We will never win anything in the tough NHL playoffs, when nothing is called, with Desharnais as our number 1 offensive center.

        It is that simple.

        • Kooch7800 says:

          I can’t disagree Eddie but do you see DD going anywhere?

          Also, I do think Galchenyuk will be our #1 centre in a few years. Losing Eller would hurt but Galchenyuk, Pleks and DD isn’t that bad at centre

          “Keep your stick on the Ice”

          • Eddie says:

            Nope. But I would try him on the wing. Keep him with Max. But move Desharnais to the wing.

          • HabinBurlington says:

            Agree with both of you guys.

          • dr. gesundheit says:

            Isn’t his (DD’s) strength related more to puck distribution…if playing on the wing we would be expecting him to win puck battles along the wall. (not sure how well that would go)

        • CJ says:

          Agreed. If we are going to keep him, he will need to be insulated.

          I’d personally like to see

          PAC, Chucky, Galley

          You can’t have DD and Pleks as your 1 and 2.

          The third line with Prust Eller and Bourque and the fourth with Weise White and Bournival are very solid. Moen could move into Bournival’s place on the fourth line, moving Bournival up to play with Pleks.

          Bournival Pleks Briere
          PAC Chucky Galley

          Move Gionta and DD (if possible – very unlikely)

          We have 2/3 of our first and second lines.

    • piper says:

      I’m a big Eller fan but I do that trade in a heart beat.

    • Forum Dog says:

      Would consider that deal, but am not sure St. Lou would want Eller back at that price.

      I still like Eller at the center position in Montreal, but with Desharnais pretty much locked in, Plekanec around for another year at least and Galchenyuk likely to end up at centre in next couple, I could see moving him for the winger they lack.

      • Kooch7800 says:

        a bit of a log Jam. I like Eller as well I just think DD is not going anywhere and if he does you may be kissing Max good bye as well.

        “Keep your stick on the Ice”

        • Forum Dog says:

          I hope the Pacioretty-Desharnais relationship is not that dependent, but they wouldn’t want to run the risk of putting Pacioretty off I guess. That and I’m not sure who would take DD’s contract. I agree that he is likely with them for the duration, which means that unless they let Plekanec go between now and 2015, there isn’t much room for Eller to grow.

  15. RiverviewCanadien says:

    Pittsburgh Penguins ‏@penguins 2m

    NEWS ALERT: Penguins defenseman Kris Letang will miss at least six weeks after having a stroke last week http://pens.pe/1jkmxmE

    ====================================
    Folks, it’s Bushmills time, and that’ll keep ya warm!
    ====================================

  16. krob1000 says:

    I have posted several long posts in recent days that when I hit submit disappear before ever making it on here…anyone got any ideas as to what may be happening?

  17. BJ says:

    I don’t know if this has been posted before. Pens are to make an announcement re. Letang today. His season is over and his career could be in danger, due to health problems. Here’s hoping he can pull through.

  18. boing007 says:

    Markov, Moen and Gionta to ? for ?.

    Richard R

  19. Luke says:

    @ Caesar & Shaker:

    Caesar says:
    February 7, 2014 at 9:54 am @Luke below Lucky = Carey

    jimmy shaker says:
    February 7, 2014 at 10:05 am Agree, Luke is way off on his short and sweet rant.

    Price could’ve easily had two donuts on the weekend with an extra 3 points right now in the standings. Flukey own goal by PK against tampa and bad wrap around and bad give away on the pegs two goals, so luck and loser point is unwarranted. Price is doing the job and so is the team as of late.

    My short sweet rant was much misinterpreted.

    My point was that when we win 4 of 6, those are all considered lucky wins by some around here. We lose only one of 6 in regulation and that’s considered the true indicator… not the 4…. the 1.

  20. Hobie Hansen says:

    It was nice having Parros and Murray on the ice late in the game, when the score was out of hand in Boston a few weeks ago.

    You could tell the Bruins were cranky and things could get ugly. The guys like Thornton, Boychuk and whoever else saw Parros and Murray out there and just said the hell with it.

    That being said, I do like the 4th line without Parros on it much better. It’s a tough call if we should put him in there against the tougher teams though.

    • Mattyleg says:

      That’s very true, and I’m all for dressing Parros for games like that, but yeah, it’s not an easy call.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • adamkennelly says:

        Pretty sure Parros’ NHL career is done.

        May get a handful of games between now and the end of the season but I would not be surprised if he doesn’t skate again.

        tough luck for the twice concussed (this year) 34 year old enforcer.

        Habs need to find a 25 year old version of him who can play just a little better.

  21. Sportfan says:

    Russians have a little girl “singing” I wonder if people will flip out like they did in 2008 China lol

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  22. commandant says:

    February Draft Ranks Part 2.
    http://lastwordonsports.com/2014/02/07/2014-nhl-draft-february-rankings-part-2-6-10/

    Further Speculation on The Czarnik trade being more than meets the eye.
    http://lastwordonsports.com/2014/02/07/more-than-meets-the-eye-to-minor-kings-canadiens-trade/

    Go Habs Go!
    Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • Luke says:

      Obviosuly I have bias, as I’ve watched Perlini all season, but I would love for him to be available when the Habs draft.

      He at times reminds me of Cole and at times Pacioretty. He’s a big body who more often drives the slot as opposed to driving the net. But he can Absolutely wire the puck.

      He’s out for about 3 more weeks with a shoulder injury… The Icedogs are woeful without him. Verhaeghe is the only consistent threat they have now. When Perlini is playing with him they are dominant.

      Thanks for the update C.

    • AceTen says:

      Interesting article on Czarnik. It lost me though at “he’s generously listed at 5’9 160 lbs.

  23. habsguru says:

    the other teams play a totally different game when Parros is on the bench. money well spent.

    • Mattyleg says:

      Significantly less threatening than when he is on the ice, you mean?

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • habsguru says:

        not so much as I think he keeps the other teams honest, mostly from the bench. I consider him insurance, hope to not use Parros, but still need to have him. example: would Marchand have bitch slapped Sedin if VAN had anybody capable of taking revenge? not saying Marchand would fight Parros, but he would not likely want to put Thornton in spot where he would have to take him on. I see it a lot more like chess, rather than this guy can beat up that guy.

  24. Say Ash says:

    Good on Google for the rainbow logo today.

  25. Psycho29 says:

    So I need all your opinion for my office hockey pool.
    Who do you think the top 3 finishers will be in the Men’s Olympic hockey? Gold-Silver-Bronze

  26. arcosenate says:

    Opening ceremonies. Can’t help feel a little bit nervous.

    Hope there’s no incidents.

  27. Mattyleg says:

    Just to build on what HF84 said below about our 4th line;
    Great to see energy and creativity from that line, rather than guys like Parros slowly chasing his tail in our zone until the opposition scores a goal.

    Like Parros, seems like a top-drawer dude, but I’m pleased we rarely have to play him now.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • Hobie Hansen says:

      I love tough guys! However, I’m at the point where I want players on the 4th line who can play 10 minutes a night and contribute on offense on occasion.

      Parros is terrible, unfortunately. The only problem is that Weise, White, Moen and Prust aren’t of the super heavyweight category.

      There could be some games where the goons on another team smack us around pretty good.

      • WindsorHab-10 says:

        That 4th line could be the sparkplug we’ve been desperately waiting to have. I hope.

      • Mattyleg says:

        Heavyweights never smack our players around, though.
        It’s the middleweights who do it, and we have plenty of guys (Murray amongst others) who can step in just fine with them.

        I’ve never understood how fighting Shaun Thornton stops Marchand from cheap-shotting people. Because it generally doesn’t.

        —Hope Springs Eternal—

        • Hobie Hansen says:

          I just don’t like after the whistle when a guy like Thornton can facewash or push around players without someone willingly jumping right in and going at it with him, and winning the fight!

        • piper says:

          Orr, Thornton, Chara, Lucic have done a pretty good job of it the last few years. They’re all heavyweights.

          • dr. gesundheit says:

            Don’t forget Ottawa’s got a couple as well…Agree, that we still need a player (who can log 10 min. a game) in that category. Prust is great but he (and the others…excluding Parros) are overmatched. As someone mentioned earlier…we need a 25 yr. old vers. of Parros who can log some minutes.

      • ClutchNGrab says:

        Add Prust to that, the benefit of those players will rise in the playoffs, if the Habs make it. The heavyweights usually disappear at that time.

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      The Habs needed an energy line badly. They also needed another line that can play defensively. With the speed of Weise and Bournival and the size of White, they can do that. The Habs best center, Pleks, is playing too much defense. The Pleks-Gionta-Briere line needs to be more focused offensively. Hopefully this new 4th line relieves some of their defensive responsibilities.

      As for enforcers; there is a reason why they never play in the playoffs. They are basically regular season canon-fodder. An unfortunate necessity based on today’s game.

    • habs-fan-84 says:

      I loved the Parros signing and still like the fact that we can drop him in to the lineup when needed. That said, I agree the 4th line is better without him.

  28. CJ says:

    The Islanders, by making their contract offer to Vanek public, have done themselves a great disservice. Rival GM’s now have a point of reference. Further, with it being widely reported that Vanek has a preferred destination, they may have suppressed his value. Add in the fact that the Isles owner Charles Wang, who is only exceed in frugality by the Senators Eugene Melnyk, they are pushing hard to make a deal today to avoid having to hand over another paycheck.

    I wonder if the sum of these parts might mean that Vanek is dealt for something below market value? The Isles won’t replace their picks, which are likely to be in the bottom five. If a team gave up their first, the Isles are likely to be picking 15-25 spots lower.

    Lastly, I recall Snow suggesting that they made the deal because their prospect pool was so deep. Now they are looking to recoup the loss? Only in Uniondale could this not be a dismissible error in judgement.

    What a hot mess….

  29. ClutchNGrab says:

    On Boone’s observation about Subban.

    How come a differential between giveaways and takeaways is not a stat that is more use in the NHL than Plus/Minus? When you look at Subban’s numbers he’s +2 but had 3 giveaways and 0 takeaway.

    Goal scored vs goal allowed is a team stats, trying to transform it in an individual one makes no sense. Plus/minus doesn’t add any information about the contribution of a specific player to the game.

    • Mattyleg says:

      I think it’s because those stats (GA, TA) are extremely objective, similar to hits.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • ClutchNGrab says:

        I think you meant subjective, and I agree but stats like faceoffs wins and shots on goal are too . I just wish they would make an effort to use it a little more.

        Instead we’re getting more Fenwick stats, which to me represent the most complicated way to end up with a useless stat.

        • commandant says:

          At least Fenwick and Corsi are objective and not subjective.

          How does a team end up with double the hits at home as on the road (for most of the league leaders in hits).

          Same with giveaways… the bell centre statistician loves giveaways. The habs have far more at home than on the road going on several years now.

          The stats are not reliable in any way and don’t correlate to wins and losses.

          Corsi and fenwick actually do show some correlation.

          Are they the be all and end all some want them to be? No of course not. But they certainly have some value. If they didn’t we would have 80% of NHL teams now hiring statisticians to track them.

          While they will never replace eye-ball scouting. They are a good tool that adds a layer of info. Now its up to the GMs to use that info.

          Ignoring them, is handicapping a franchise IMO. Overusing them is also handicapping a franchise. You have to find the right balance.

          Go Habs Go!
          Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
          http://lastwordonsports.com/

          • Cal says:

            Yeah, Corsi and Fenwick add a layer all right. A layer of subjective poo.
            When two judges watching the same play can’t decide on whether a hit is a hit, how can we expect them to know when a player is shooting AT the net or just throwing it into the corner?

        • Mattyleg says:

          Subjective, yes.
          Wasn’t paying attention.

          —Hope Springs Eternal—

        • krob1000 says:

          There is no subsititute for watching the game….many guys make passes ot the first or nearest option….guys like Markov make plays to the best option….. BIG difference. Both would indicate a positive whatever number….sometimes a turnpver willbe caused on the long pass becuase it was an attempt ( a risk worth taking) to advance the puck before a team settles into a comfortable defensive posture…this is why quick tranisition play is important…but quick tranistion will lead to more turnovers and therefore possible possession changes. However, it may led to better quality chances. THings lke how fast a puck is moved are not calcualted anywhere …ther eis a big difference between a pass made right aaway and one made even a half second later…an NHL player covers a lot of ground in a half second…the difference betwen breaking free or not.

          The game is best viewed from above where it looks simple…players do not have this luxurious view and only a special few are able to see the game this way from ice level….those with better ability to do this must h3en be evaluated differently.

          The only accurate measure the real quality of NHL palyers would be impossible as it would be the measuring and statisical analysis of decision making……good luck with that. This is all for the guy WITH the puck…..well his decisions are influenced by 9 other guys on the ice WITHOUT the puck! This is where it gets really crazy….because those 9 guys are actually more influential then the puck carrier himself…an NHL player has the puck on his stick for mere seconds a game. The differnce between a good hockey player and a bad one is actually most reliant on what tehy do without the puck as 95 percent of their game is played away fromt he puck…..now some are defensive minded and some are offensvie, some are safe, some are risk takers,etc,etc,

          Hockey quite simply is impossible to analyze with any certainty in any measure aside from decisions…and even then what will the mindset of the analyst be …becuase if he were a Masrkov type he would disagree with a Gorges type on what the correct play was….Corsi and Fenwick are OK to use as tools….much like a screwdriver is used in building a house….if you try build a house with a screwdriver as your only tool I wish you all of the best.

    • DDO_Habs_Fan says:

      It is because giveaways does not directly correlate with deficiency in play. For example TOI has a huge affect on giveaways. The more you are on the ice, the more chances are that you will give the puck away. Also, the quality of the opposition you are facing when on the ice….etc.

    • Habsrule1 says:

      I’m not a fan of those stats. They are very subjective so what may be a giveaway or takeaway to me may not be to you.

      Also, as commandant pointed out below, the more you have the puck and create the much needed scoring chances, the more you will be likely to give it away. The same may not be true for takeaways. Being a defensemen, he may not have as many opportunities to take away as forwards would. It really seems like a useless stat to me. Stats are useful i moderation, but you really have to watch the games in their entirety to know how a player did.
      My guess is with all his giveaways, most scouts would be pretty impressed with PK overall.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

  30. Sportfan says:

    Wiese must be a great character guy cause we have won two in a row with him :P

    Sports and Entertainment in the link click and enjoy, clicking is fun!
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  31. DipsyDoodler says:

    Sorry to revisit the Diaz trade, but another way to think about it is as a rental deal.

    Diaz is a pending UFA and so we should compare his trade to typical rental deals.

    If that’s the case we got a very good deal.

    Jaromir Jagr was traded at the deadline last year for a conditional 2nd round pick (turned into a first round pick : #29) and a player (Lane McDermid) who Dallas traded to Mr Truculence for a 6th round pick.

    There’s just no doubt that a youngster like Weise who can take a regular NHL shift is worth more than a #29 pick and an AHLer. That #29 pick has a 50/50 chance of playing in the NHL 5 years from now.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I need to see more statistical data in order to truly weigh in. I like the numbers you have used, but can you at least throw in some obtuse numbers thus enhancing your point?

      • Mattyleg says:

        235, 14, 9.676, 0.8%.

        The numbers say it all.

        Oh, and 58008.

        If you hold your computer upside down, you’ll see what every man wants to see.

        —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • Phil C says:

      That’s a good way to look at it. And the help is immediate instead of waiting 4 years hoping for a player to develop.

  32. jeffhabfan says:

    Big win Last night by the Habs we are having a nice little run going before the break. I think the slump might be over I am wondering what trade we will make after the break.GO HABS GO.

  33. Habfan29 says:

    So who still want to trace Patches, signed for the next 5 years for $4.5 million. If he scores 30 goals a year this is a bargain!!!

  34. ACEEAGLE says:

    One went in off his leg, another was an empty net (and I believe he has several other empty net goals) and the other the net was empty after a great pass from DD. My point is he could score a lot more for the chances he gets ( ie Penalty shots) if he was a better finisher. Needs to get hungrier and finish his chances then he will be an elite player.

    • Mattyleg says:

      When he’s an elite player, he’ll cost twice what he costs now.

      I’ll take his ‘empty net’ goals at 4.5 bills, thanks.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • Habfan29 says:

      Only in Montreal are we unhappy with a 30 goal scorer. He has 2 less then Crosby and has played at least 10 less games. I guess as Montreal fans we are never happy. Watch want happens if he is traded. I see John Leclair all over again.

    • Thomas Le Fan says:

      It was one of the softest hatties I’ve ever seen, that’s for sure. Missing the penalty shots, he would have been embarrassed if he hadn’t had a lucky bounce and an empty netter. Still, all’s well that ends well.

      Hockey isn’t everything … it’s the only thing … except for beer and guitars!

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      WHy doesn’t the empty netter count? It ended any hope the Nucks had of tying the game.

      The empty netter counts.

    • Stuck_in_To. says:

      You have a point that a little too much is being made of his hat trick but then again you can look at his game this way: his big body was in front of the net for the deflection which is a plus; he had the puck and found the empty net which is not as easy as it looks; and a lot more should be made of the fact that he used his speed twice to break past their D and be awarded a penalty shot. What an impact he had on the game! And with every game like that, his confidence grows. Just love it and be happy!

  35. HabinBurlington says:

    Ed Snider yapping again.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=443215

    Apparantly hates the idea of the Olympics and thinks Giroux is better than half the players on Team Canada and what a joke it is leaving him off team.

    • arcosenate says:

      Ed Snyder should win a cup sometime, then yak, his audience would double to at least 10.

    • DipsyDoodler says:

      I guess his network doesn’t own the rights to the Olympics.

    • CJ says:

      I read last night that since December 1, Giroux has more points then any other Canadian Olympian. I don’t know if he’s better then half the players on the team, but he is certainly better then some. That said, you take the composition of players who you feel provides the best balance, in a defined role.

      I personally would take Giroux over Kunitz, but success will be measured on whether or not this team returns with a gold medal. Second guessing can follow.

    • RetroMikey says:

      HabinBurlington;
      Are you on this site 24/7????
      Seems you never take a break here, LMAO!

      “We will win the Cup one day only with ? in the nets “

  36. Sportfan says:

    3 sisters in the same even that’s pretty cool!

    Sports and Entertainment in the link click and enjoy, clicking is fun!
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  37. frontenac1 says:

    Hola Amigos! Max had been floating the past 2 games but not last night. He was humming. Result? 3 goals! Hey, that must have been a low point for Gio last night,getting crushed by Diaz. The guys on the bench must have had a chuckle. The next shift Diaz puked the puck at the blueline and Habs scored, so it all worked out. Saludos!

  38. WindsorHab-10 says:

    That fourth line looks pretty good so far. Hoping Bournival will be ok.

  39. Say Ash says:

    Any Bournival update?

  40. Mattyleg says:

    Great game last night, gang!

    Loved how hard we played, our creativity, and some incredible individual performances.

    We tore that Vancouver defence to shreds, and it was great to see.

    Olympic break not coming soon enough for Murray, and a couple of others.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • WindsorHab-10 says:

      Only part I didn’t like was giving Vancouver a lot of good scoring chances. We need to improve in that department.

    • bwoar says:

      No one wants that break more than Vancouver. That D we shredded? No Bieksa, no Hamhuis, not even Chris Tanev (trust me, he’s a decent D). Raffi frickin’ Diaz playing 55 minutes a night? Nightmare.

      Meantime no Henrik, Daniel in a terrible slump and I think about to regress permanently, and Burrows not the same with a very, very poetic jaw injury. Once Santorelli went down their season was toast.

      I’m happy we won, some really good performances, but a devastated team got 44 shots and some pretty good ones to boot. It’s a win, it’s all good, but eh: imagine Pacioretty, Markov, Emelin, Beaulieu and Eller are out and Gallagher & DD are in terrible slumps. It’s not going well for Fonzie out there on the coast.

      “thoroughbred”


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