A week to get it done on Gorges

gorges

Josh Gorges’ arbitration hearing is set for July 28.
He and the Canadiens have a week to negotiate a deal and avoid what is often a corrosive process.

In a piece announcing he will succeed Réjean Tremblay as La Presse’s sports columnist, François Gagnon wrote that arbitration should be avoided in Gorges’ case.

While he is not a Markov or Subban, Gagnon wrote, Gorges is a solid defenceman who is a respected leader in the Canadiens’ room. Gorges could be captain of the club some day. But this is not likely to happen if he has been through arbitration where, as is customary in the process, the team argues against Gorges’ value.

Get it done, Pierre.

• Nashville seems headed for Aug. 2 arbitration with Gorges’ old Kelowna Rockets defence partner, Shea Weber. Zach Parise is hoping to avoid an Aug. 3 hearing, and Brandon Dubinsky’s contract talks have stalled.

• Everyone on Facebook should wish CBC Radio sportscaster Andie Bennett happy birthday today

• And while you’re at it, save some good thoughts for Michael Farber, who is on the mend and should be ready when the puck drops this autumn. SI has posted Farber’s piece about covering the 1988-’89 Canadiens

Tremblay jumps to Quebecor

Elliotte Friedman’s Top 30 thoughts. Check no. 17

Wiz is happy in Columbus

Patrick Lalime joins RDS. He was one of the goaltenders who broke Jacques Martin’s heart in Ottawa

176 Comments

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  2. Everlasting1 says:

    Meanwhile..in frigid Argentina, we have the battle of the ‘Guays, the Urus vs the Paras on Sunday. Who will brandish the most horseshoes? Stay tuned (or not).

    ——————————————————————-
    “God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: “How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Psalms 82:1-2

    “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

  3. kalevine says:

    I am surprised to hear people concerned about how Gorges will be after injury, and using that as an argument for paying him less. Yet didn’t we just ink Markov to a huge deal even though he has missed far more than he has played during the last 3 seasons? Like the article says, Gorges is no Markov. That’s true – my money would be on his health over Markov’s in the coming seasons.

    • Sakukoivumc11 says:

      The signing of Markov for three years is a great signing and now Gorges should be for the same length, no longer! Maybe three years and 10 million max….

      • kalevine says:

        I think that is an excellent idea :)

      • Andrew65 says:

        4 years, $11M. $2.75 per year cap hit. Well worth the money (relatively speaking, from a mere commoner) and the commitment.

      • Everlasting1 says:

        3yrs@$10mil you say..how generous. You hiring?

        ——————————————————————-
        “God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: “How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Psalms 82:1-2

        “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

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    • coutNY says:

      Just playing devil’s advocate, wouldn’t the fact they have given markov be reason not to give another fortune to potentially top 4 D’man with simialar issues? Having two top dman coming off season ending injuries with major surgery is dangerous in itself. I love Gorges and Markov, but a healthy Markov is a top five point guy and top 4 shutdown guy. Gorges is a top 4 shutdown guy… Markov leads by example and so does Gorges but better with expressing it. tough decison.

  4. HardHabits says:

    Here’s my suggestion. Gomez for Tavares straight up.

    Islander’s get that veteran presence in the locker room and on the ice that they so desperately need plus they should have no problem making it to the cap floor with Gomez on board and they get to save 5 million dollars down the road when Gomez’ actual salary is lower than his cap hit.

    Make it so PG.

    • mike3131 says:

      But why would they be willing to give up Tavares so easily? It would take Gomez and a high pick or 2 at the least!

    • G-Man says:

      Hoping Snow can be snowed? Just typing that made me feel cooler.

    • Roy_s_WINK says:

      No joke whatsoever…
      I actually did this trade exactly at the beginning of last season in my NHL ’11 GM Mode and Garth Snow thanked me.

      …he even signed a pair of those oversized shoulder pads to hang in my office!

    • Stev.R says:

      Tavares is overrated in my opinion. Always has been. But I do think that there is a good chance that if the opportunity arose, he would seriously consider Montreal. This is all based on the fact that him and Subban are best buddies and because Tavares seems like a guy who wants to be in a hockey market.

    • Andrew65 says:

      Not very realistic. There are much better ways of reaching the cap floor than by giving away one of your best assets. If they wanted to take Gomer’s contract off our hands, why wouldn’t they just ship us a draft pick or prospect?

  5. gerrybell says:

    i would love to know what argument the Josh Georges side presents as to why he should get a substantial raise. The guy missed the last half of the year and now could be as fragile as glass. he might not even be ready to begin training camp from what i have heard. how is this strong evidence of a raise?

    g
    b

  6. 44har48 says:

    I like Josh Gorges a lot, but please hold your ground and do not overpay. We have no disposable cash we can part with carrying Gomez and Spacek – and nobody in their right mind is going to take Spacek off our hands. We do finally have some talented Dmen to work with and in the minors. I like Eric Cole, but we need more 5 on 5 scoring. Injuries happen to everyone to bank on them again. We need to do better up front.

  7. SeriousFan09 says:

    I will stay patient, we were all about lose our **** last year with the Pleks Contract as we got closer and closer to July 1 but PG came through. Relax and chill out and if I can do that working outdoors in record heat so can you.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      I remember Michael Farber predicted last spring that someone would end up overpaying for Mr. Plekanec, and that that someone might just be the Canadiens. In hindsight, after only one year, that contract is relatively reasonable. It’s not a bargain, but I feel comfortable with it.

      ———————————
      For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  8. mike3131 says:

    The Rangers have 13 forwards but only 5 defensemen under contract and they have $6.4 M in cap space. Would they be takers for Spacek for 1 year?

    • 44har48 says:

      Not a chance, unless we are willing to get fleeced again. Sather is not as stupid as the contracts he signs, he knows the Habs are an easy target. He will either fleece us or or he won’t do a deal.

    • Chris says:

      The Rangers defence corps is set. They have Staal, Girardi, Erixon, McDonagh (oh, that still hurts) and Sauer signed.

      They also have Michael Del Zotto signed, and he played half a season with them before demotion to work on his game.

      Dylan McIlrath is also knocking at the door. At 6’4″ and 212 pounds, he’s got the NHL body already.

      They’ve also got Pavel Valentenko as a 7th man or insurance policy. I doubt they NEED to take on a veteran, as Girardi-Staal-McDonagh (yep, still hurts)-Sauer showed that they can be a very effective top-4 in the second half of last season.

      • Chris, I know you love to love everyone else’s prospects and hate our own, but don’t be ridiculous. Dylan McIlrath isn’t “knocking at the door”. In fact everything that’s been written about him since he was drafted suggests that he was drafted 10-20 spots too high, made absolutely zero progress this year and may have already plateaued. He’s no better than Jarred Tinordi in any aspect as far as NHL potential, so until you start revving Tinordi as “knocking at the door” I don’t think you can make that statement.

        Valentenko you’re also overestimating. At best he’s worth about the same as Matheiu Carle, ie: not much. Might be a decent #2 defenseman in the AHL, but a longshot for the NHL.

        However you’re right that they don’t need Spacek. What they desperately need is a puck moving defenseman. Staal can shoot but can’t run a PP, Girardi also doesn’t have the hockey sense to do it, and Torts doesn’t trust Del Zotto as much as Boucher trusts MAB, so that doesn’t say much for him.

  9. RGM says:

    Meanwhile, Josh is on the links today: http://www.castanet.net/news/Sports/63313/Rockets-Alumni-Weekend-tees-off

    During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.

  10. Bill H says:

    I hope PG signs Gorges for under $3M. If it goes to arbitration, then I think he should be traded at the deadline for whatever we can get.

    And enough of the “could be captain of the club some day” talk. He needs to stand in line behind Higgins, Komisarek, and Chipchura for the job. He is a leader on the ice and in the dressing room – enough said.

  11. dasbooth says:

    Dubinsky just signed 4 years, 4.2 per with Rangers according to Scott Burnside.

    “Shutouts are really more of a team stat” – Carey Price

  12. Kennedy says:

    F**k I’m so surprised and happy that’s there a few rugby players here ! I have been playing my whole life and it’s the greatest sport in the world …….. Behind hockey of corse !

    • longbow says:

      You even started your post like a rugby player ! lol

      “Wanting is often more pleasurable than having.It is not logical but it is often true.” – Spock

    • Rugger says:

      It certainly is a lifelong obsession, I’ve been playing 35 years, tried to retire after last fall which lasted till May. I now accept that I can’t stop playing. Our fall season starts September 10th and I will be there. Rugby forever!

  13. Un Canadien errant says:

    I think hockey is becoming stats-obsessed. When I was growing up the only number that mattered were 50. Gretzky put up 92 and 212, those became kind of special, but now we have so much data to wade through.

    Scott Cullen analyzes takeaways here: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=372128

    I was only foggily aware last season that we were now tabulating these. How accurate are these stats, are they dependent on the crew, like errors in baseball? Do we keep track of giveaways as well?

    I noticed that no Canadiens, forward or defenceman, is in among the league leaders, but Travis Moen, David Desharnais and Paul Mara show up at the end of the parade. Paul Mara is explicable through our empirical observation last year, but what does this say about the other two? Should we be concerned?

    ———————————
    For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • HardHabits says:

      For JM a take-away is letting the opposing team shoot on the goalie and then getting the puck back off of the rebound.

    • 1010 says:

      It must be an important stat. 14 of the 25 players on the list didn’t play in the post season. 1 player played in the final 4 and he didn’t get to the finals. I know, it’s an individual stat, but it can’t be overly important.

      GO HABS…

  14. TorontoHabsFan says:

    From Mirtle’s twitter:

    “Since 2003, no goaltender with a save percentage under .900 has played more games than Patrick Lalime (179). His record: 58-85-23.”

    Wow.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      You know how batting .200 is called the Mendoza line? Maybe a .900 save percentage should be called the Lalime Ceiling or something clever like that. Maybe a job for John Bellyful.

      ———————————
      For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      NHL.com lists him as having a .905 S%, and Wikipedia has him at .907. That might curtail our fun.

      ———————————
      For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • longbow says:

      Funny thing about Lalime.All the talk about goaltending ruining the Senators chances in the playoff doesn’t make sense.41 games played,21w-20L,1.77 GAA,926 pct, 5 shutouts.The 2 years they went deep he was 1.39 GAA, 946 pct and 1.82 GAA, 924 pct. Maybe it wasn’t him after all. Maybe the boys in front of him didn’t put the puck in the net enough.Or maybe Martin had them playing too soft.

      I had always assumed his playoff numbers were atrocious but they are actually pretty good.Statistically he elevated his game at playoff time.

      “Wanting is often more pleasurable than having.It is not logical but it is often true.” – Spock

      • HalifaxHabs says:

        His stats may look good, but if you remember those games, you’d remember why he had that repuation.

        Remember Joe Nieundyk(sp) scoring on those floaters from outside the blueline in game 7? He was good most of the time in the playoffs, but let in really bad goals at really crucial times. Some of the worst playoff goals in modern history, lol

        • HardHabits says:

          A goal tender can make dozens of great saves during a game to keep his team in it but will always be remembered for the untimely back breaking softies that lose it *cough*Jose Theodore*cough*.

  15. HardHabits says:

    I think Gorges recent injury/operation, that he missed most of last season and is a low points earner (his best points getting season was when he was often paired with Markov) are all factors weighing heavily against him in an arbitration hearing.

    If the award is 3.5M or more I would feel the Habs would have to consider walking away or at the very best signing Gorges for 2 years maximum at that rate.

    Gorges earned 1.3M last season. Anything over 2.6M is more than double his last pay-check. If this hearing was last summer it’s a whole new ball game but this isn’t last summer

    2.75M per is fine by me. If Gorges can muscle up and prove over the next 2 years that he will not get pushed around the crease then I’d say he deserves a raise at that point.

    Apart from taking that puck to the head the most enduring image I have of Gorges is flopping around on top of Price just before a goal goes in.

  16. HabFanSince72 says:

    Big days at the Tour de France today and tomorrow. The big stages in the Alps.

    They are about to start the last climb of the day. Andy Schleck making his move.

    Christobal Huet in attendance (hockey reference).

  17. sims says:

    what the word on his knee? is that what could be delaying his contract? i was told by someone in-the-know that he would be signing longterm right after the playoffs….why hasnt that happened?

  18. centre hice says:

    For someone who grew up in the 80’s, that Farber SI article brought back some awesome memories. I loved that Habs team.

    You could make a movie about those Habs years. The scandals off the ice, and the exiting play on it. Rumours of drugs, partying, strippers, players sleeping with others wives.

    Eventually due to scandals certain players had to be shipped out of town (i.e. Chelios, and later Roy), and the Canadiens plunged into the dark years.

    I think that’s why of love that era of the Habs so much, because it was the last of the glory days before the Habs fell into their worst decade in team history.

  19. ed lopaz says:

    the players arbitrarily raised the cap by 5 million to 64 million – which was their negotiated right to do so.

    an “average” player can now claim that 3 million is a fair salary.

    as the season begins, only Subban, Gill and a healthy Markov are ahead of Gorges.

    Spacek already makes 3.85 million – which does not help Gauthier in his negotiation with Gorges.

    There is little doubt that Gorges is our #1 pair on the PK, and definitely top 4 on this team defensively.

    Gorges also has more offensive talent than we have seen – as Martin has overplayed Hamrlik and Spacek these last 2 years.

    If you go to the practices in brossard, you get a better idea of Gorges skating, balance, and puck handling.

    He has taught himself to play a simple game- and thats the greatness of Gorges

    he is simply off the charts in hockey IQ, and one of the top leaders on this team.

    Martin is a PK and defensive defencemans dream coach – Martin dreams of having 4 d-men like Gorges, and then Subban and Markov on the power play.

    Anyone who thinks this Habs team would be just as good without Gorges does not know how difficult it is to play defence in the NHL.

    There are 29 teams that would open a spot on their roster for Gorges
    and at least a few of them would be willing to overpay.

    Habs hockey is “smart” hockey – we play 5 man defence, not just 2 – we move up the ice as a 5 man unit, we back check with 5.

  20. ABHabsfan says:

    According to TSN, Campoli was awarded $2.5M by arbitration and Chi walked, making him UFA. If Campoli is worth 2.5 in the eyes of the arbitrator you have to think Gorges will be in the range of $3.5M or even higher. I am not saying that is what he should get but these rulings just fuel the fire for the players and agents. Some consideration by the Habs management should also be given to the personal relationship between Gorges and CP. Apparently they are best mates and perhaps a few extra bucks to keep the Franchise comfortable is money well spent. If his case goes al the way to the judge, I expect it will come in > $3.5M.
    If a play can be made for Dubinsky, who doesn’t seem to be signing with NYR, it should be made. The guy is a heart-and-soul player and always seems to kill the Habs when we play against them. A 3 year deal for him would make the Habs cery solid down the middle for years to come.
    Have a nice day and stay hydrated!

    • Willy says:

      Campoli puts up better offensive numbers than Gorges and in arbitration cases that always goes a long way. IMO if Gorges does get to arbitration you are looking at somewhere between 2.75-3.25. Fingers crossed they can get a 4-5 year deal done at 2.75 a year.

    • TorontoHabsFan says:

      Not exactly – Campoli was awarded what his side was requesting. Because Chicago decided not to sign Campoli regardless, there was no real arbitration and so the arbritrator awarded Campoli what his representative was asking for.

      The same thing happened with Clarke MacArthur last year.

      Basically Campoli’s side says to the arbritator “Chris is worth $2.5m a year”, Chicago says “we’re not extending a contract to Campoli regardless of what is agreed to here, we plan on letting him become a UFA”. The arbitrator, in absence of any counter-figure from the team decides that Campoli is worth whatever figure he asked for. It’s ultimately symbolic.

      cheers

  21. Bouleau noir says:

    Gorges generates very little offense neither is he a big boby trowing hits left and right either, he plays a basic but solid game defensivelly, I think he will remain a third pair Dman for the long haul althought next year might be different with Hamrlik that didn’t sign….. 2.4m for 3 years.

  22. G-Man says:

    A question for all of you:
    Has the salary cap augmented or hindered players’ salaries since the lockout?

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I think salaries have gone up for all players for their 2nd and 3rd contracts. The salaries have probably gone down for the 34+ year old contracts as a generality.

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      If Paul Kariya could get $10M in 1999, then clearly the cap has reduced salaries.

    • shiram says:

      I have no numbers to back it up, but I’d think the average salaray for nhl player has gone up.
      Individual salaries might be lower though, as HF72 pointed out.

      If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        Don’t forget revenues have gone up tremendously. From $1.76B in 2001 to $2.8B last year (with the same number of teams).

        Player salaries should have gone up by 60% just to keep pace.

        • shiram says:

          So more players are getting paid more, but the top players are not getting more cash per year.
          Basically what I wanted to say.

          If you don’t grok it, drokk it!

          • Sakus Evil Twin says:

            What a job Bettman has done. Bravo.

            No answers, just opinions. Bite me. Och.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      No question that it’s brought down salaries in my mind. The Rangers and Leafs aren’t throwing money around like they used to, now they’re banking it.

      This year the cap floor now seems to be having an effect, forcing the weak sisters to ante up might be reversing that trend, which is why I fear for the next Buttman Lockoutapallooza.

      ———————————
      For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • Kooch7800 says:

      I think it has screwed the bottom 6 players. So much gets tied up in these crazy contracts i.e. Ovechkin, Gomez, Campbell, Kovulchuk etc that the bottom 6 guys are more like a revolving door and get paid really low money.

      In my opinion they need to change some of the rules. I have no problem with the cap but I think GM’s need to be accountable for stupid contracts. If a player is sent to the minors when they are making huge coin their contracts should partly count against the cap similar to a buy out. The fact that Sather can just dump someone like Redden in the minors when he signs him to a STUPID contract why should they not be penalized. I think that guy is the king of dumb contracts, I really don’t need to list examples as we don’t have that much time. These contracts set the bar for other players when they are negotiating so GM’s should be a little smarter.

  23. Un Canadien errant says:

    And in other good news, TSN will be broadcasting the Rugby World Cup this September. After the usurious debacle that was Setanta’s coverage last time around, where they charged something like $25 for the preliminaries, and then pay-per-view prices for each semi and finals matches, it will be good to have this excellent event getting covered properly.

    Of course with NFL and CFL in full swing, NHL training camps under way and a new season of “Beauty and the Geek”, I won’t be getting any sleep at all in a couple of months.
    ———————————
    For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • Rugger says:

      For better or worse, Rugby is finally getting some recognition in North America. Amazing what an upcoming Olympics will do. I am about to start up the fantasy league for the World Cup with the team I play for. I will be loading up on All-Blacks with Sonny Bill Williams being my top target.

      • Un Canadien errant says:

        I don’t know Rugger, we say that every World Cup, how the game is catching on and there’s a strong grassroots, and with Canada’s showing it will encourage youth participation, blah blah blah, and then it promptly disappears for another four years.

        I can hope that with the sports channels lining up properties, maybe rugby will be seen as an attractive option to air, and not just the World Cups. TV is finding that sports is PVR proof, so they are flocking to sports programming. I’m not asking for Super 12 or those kind of matches, I just want to see the Tri-Nations and Five Nations and some Tests.

        ———————————
        For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

        http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

        • Rugger says:

          Actually, I am in New England so I can’t speak for the growth in Canada. Our union NERFU is growing by leaps and bounds especially in the youth and women’s teams. For Men’s club there are 35 teams, several with sides playing in more than one division. The most fun games however are the Old Boys games we play against Canadian Teams at the Old Man of the Mountain Rugby Festival in New Hampshire. Usually teams from Toronto, Ottawa and sometimes Quebec and New Brunswick there.

          • Un Canadien errant says:

            I used to play at Town of Mount Royal RFC, had some great tournaments in the NE USA. Concussions and nightly socials have dulled the memories, but Saranac Lake, the Harford Safari and Lake Placid were great tournaments to take part in. One tournament in White Plains in the late 80’s was particularly fun, getting back across the border not so much.

            ———————————
            For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

            http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

          • Rugger says:

            Saranac is coming up in a week and a half. Great Tourney, our women’s side is going but not the men this year. In College (UVM) we played Concordia and McGill – always the best post game festivities (I think, it is all a distant haze now).

          • Un Canadien errant says:

            Yeah, I used to play at Concordia, it was a club side, very much self-financed. Someone told me a few years ago that it was now a full-fledged varsity sport, with school funding, that would have been fun. Cripes, having matching jerseys that don’t get ripped off (I went up to a guy at a Student Union party and made him take off our jersey and hand it to me, he was really fuzzy on how he ended up owning it), coaches, access to the practice field, that would have been real nice.

            ———————————
            For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

            http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

        • G-Man says:

          Rugby, track and field, soccer and cricket all have failed to catch the hearts and minds of North American sports fans.
          Rugby suffers because of the NFL and the CFL.
          Cricket (besides being dull) has the MLB ( also dull as hell) as an obstacle.
          Soccer is killing itself in North America with low scoring games that are decided by taking 12 feet shots at a net the size of a building.
          Rugby will always be appreciated by the few. It will not catch on.

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          Yeah, as much as I love football, it is a big hindrance to the growth of rugby. I feel the US and Canada would be better off as societies if we all played rugby instead of football. There would be fewer kids on the couch ‘playing’ Madden, they’d be on the pitch instead. Rugby is more inclusive, the small skinny kid has more opportunity to play than at football. Women’s rugby, as hard as it can be on the eardrums, is also a positive that football can’t provide.

          ———————————
          For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

          http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

          • Rugger says:

            Hard on the ears is right for Women’s Rugby, I coached our Women’s team one season when I was out with a broken orbital bone, my ears are still bleeding.

  24. Marc10 says:

    2.5 to 3 for Josh. He’s solid and great on the PK. But he’s not an offensive or physical threat. No way he should make 3.5!
    “To be irreplaceable, you have to be different”.
    Andy Warhol

    Go PK Go!

  25. Un Canadien errant says:

    Manuel Osborne-Paradis probably feels quite the fool, but I can’t give him the gears on this, I’ve been to the Stampede and I’m glad the police weren’t around and I was allowed to slink back home with nothing but a weeklong hangover.

    http://tsn.ca/skiing/story/?id=372174

    ———————————
    For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  26. Un Canadien errant says:

    I’m reposting this from two days ago, but it’s topical in this thread where we discuss how much Josh Gorges should make.

    *****************

    Do you guys notice that with a salary cap we now begrudge our favourite players their contracts even more. Pre-cap, some of us would rail that they made more than doctors and police officers, but most of us would just say if that’s what the team is willing to pay it’s fine with us. We saw the players as guys like us with modest means who had hit the jackpot and were happy for them, we could picture ourselves in their shoes.

    Now we’re all Uncle Scrooges, pinching every nickle. What, we’re paying the backup goalie $200 000 more than the last guy? Why don’t we just build a huge bonfire and dump-truck the money in there then! Back in my day, Yvon Lambert made $50 000 and ate rubber for dinner, and he was glad to have it….

    ———————————
    For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • Rugger says:

      I am probably in the minority, but I have no interest or care in how much anyone other than my immediate family makes. I do not go the games, or buy jerseys and watch the games online for free in most cases so it has no impact on my enjoyment.

      • Mad Habber says:

        I could care less how much they are being paid, but for the fact that their salary will dictate who they will be able to keep, add and trade.

        So it only matters when say Hamrlik gets paid 5 million because he then takes away cap room from the team to sign or re-sign players.

  27. Critical-MASS says:

    sign gorges to a 5 year 15mil dollar deal and all is well in my opinion.Do it goats.

    …..You’ll never get to heaven if you’re scared of getting high…..

    • RGM says:

      I like the cut of your jib.

      During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.

    • BeeGee says:

      Frankly, I’m not sure I would want Gorges for more than 3 years. Maybe, but maybe not.
      We might need some room for the likes of Yemelin, Diaz, Nash, Mitera, Stejskal, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Bennet, Ellis, Dietz, Kishel, Pateryn, Didier, Nygren and the 58 other d men we’re bound to have in the system by then…

      • GenerationYHabs says:

        It’s pretty crazy when list it like that and you think about just how stacked our farm system is on D right now.

        In contrast there’s maybe 2-3 worthwhile offensive prospects that I can think of in the system?

        • BeeGee says:

          Indeed. I guess good d men have value though. We’re probably going to be able to swap a few established defensemen for offensive prospects at some point…

      • DearyLeary says:

        We’ll need Gorges around, I would like to see him and Markov be our old horses with young talent filling the 4-6 other slots on the team. I think that PK, Tinordi, and Beaulieu are going to comprise one of the best d-cores in the league, filling out with a couple of veterans and see who else can fill those last gaps will make for a great start at being very competitive for a long time.

    • HalifaxHabs says:

      I am worried that 5 years is too long of a term. I would like to keep it to 3 years.

  28. Critical-MASS says:

    ….

  29. Sakus Evil Twin says:

    SET’s first two thoughts:

    Elliotte Friedman is CBCs one saving grace. I really hope they know that. His assessment of Wiz’s greatest strength/weakness is night on.

    You know, I know, EVERYBODY knows that JG is gonna get 3-3.5M for 3 years. Just git ‘er done…

    No answers, just opinions. Bite me. Och.

    • canuckbot says:

      Hey, my initials are JG. I mean I was expecting a raise but I certainly didn’t think it would be in the millions. I’m very grateful.

  30. Habfan10912 says:

    NY Post reporting Dubinsky hearing today. Dubinsky asking for 4.6. Ranger offer 2.8.

  31. since1988 says:

    A comparable contract is Marc Methot (Columbus) who signed for $12M over 4years ($3M per). So you can expect him to command this salary at the very least. I could see him looking for Robidas or Trevor Daley (both $3.3M per) money although Gorges isnt the point producer. He did once block a shot with his head and not miss a game though, he is dependable and we need him for the PK to give PK/Markov more rest allowing them to be sharper on PP.

    “I savour it every day, sometimes before practice I’m skating around and I’ll look at the logo on my jersey – I’m playing for the Canadiens!”
    – Mathieu Darche

  32. punkster says:

    Nice piece by Michael Farber. All the best to him for a complete recovery.

    ***Subbang Baby!!!***

  33. HabFanSince72 says:

    Rejean Tremblay on Rejean tremblay:

    “” My right brain is that of a journalist, and my left brain is that of a dramatic author,”

    And your limbic brain is that of a resentful bigot.

    Today’s neuroanatomy lesson.

    Rejean’s left brain gave us the TV show Lance et Compte. The Wire, it ain’t, for those of you who missed it.

  34. novahab says:

    It’s a mistake to treat this guy this way. Gorges has been a rock for this team and no he doesn’t produce points. What he does is shut down the other teams top lines and is a beast on the PK. He and Gill are th shut down teams that will allow Markov and Suban to play offence. Four years 3.5 per year and remeber this guy coud be a captain. Get it done PG and lets go win the cup.

    • DearyLeary says:

      3.5 is too much. 2.5-3 is the range I’m looking at, 3-4 years sounds about right.

      But treat him how? I don’t understand how PG is mistreating Gorges.

    • SyntaxLove says:

      He and Gill were like -7 when they played together last year. Keep that in mind.

      • TorbayDave says:

        Gill and Georges were -7 because they’re the 5on3 penalty killers along with Plecs. “The iron 3″

        • HalifaxHabs says:

          FYI: +/- is only recorded when the play is even strength.

          Goals scored against Gill & Gorges on 5 on 3’s have no bearing on the stat.

        • sims says:

          +/- is an even strength stat only

        • Un Canadien errant says:

          To be clear and precise, it applies at even strength and for shorthanded goals. For example, a player on the power play doesn’t get a plus one if his team scores, but does get a -1 if they give up a shorthanded goal. Conversely, a player on the penalty kill gets a +1 if they score short-handed, but doesn’t get -1 if they let one in.

          ———————————
          For my training camp surprise, I want the second coming of Mike McPhee. And maybe Kent Carlson.

          http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • punkster says:

      How do you mean treat? It’s his right to go to arbitration for more money/term just as it’s the team’s right to lowball any offer they make. If they come to an arrangement they’ll both be happy, if not then Josh will find a buyer and the Habs will find a replacement and they’ll both be happy. No big deal.

      ***Subbang Baby!!!***

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        Punkster you old romantic you.

        • punkster says:

          True, though whether we lose Josh or keep him will not have an impact on how this team performs in the coming season. His salary just might.

          ***Subbang Baby!!!***

          • JF says:

            Disagree. I think losing Gorges would be a mistake. If it were to happen, we’d have six defenceman, of whom one (Yemelin) would be in his first year in the NHL, and two (Subban and Weber) in their second. Plus Raphael Diaz. Gorges is a young veteran who is defensively solid, a great penalty killer, and a leader. How would we replace him? There are no longer many options out there. Someone mentioned Chris Campoli yesterday, but he would likely demand more than Gorges, since he puts up more points.

          • punkster says:

            I like Gorges though he, like any player, is expendable and replaceable. He isn’t a top 4 D-man so his loss would not be particularly shattering to the team. We’ll see how it goes.
            ***Subbang Baby!!!***

        • Everlasting1 says:

          lol post of the day.

          ——————————————————————-
          “God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: “How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Psalms 82:1-2

          “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

      • HardHabits says:

        Who are you and what have you done with punskter? This comment is far too logical and isn’t condescending enough .

      • RGM says:

        As I understand it, they can’t negotiate term in an arbitration hearing, only the value of the contract. This is due to Josh’s age – because he’s eligible for UFA status next summer, it can only be a one-year contract. If it goes to the hearing, it’s a one-year deal regardless, but each the player/agent and the team put a number on the table, and the arbitrator decides which side makes the best case.

        If someone has a better understanding of the legalese of the process, please feel free to correct me, but I do believe the above to be the case for Josh.

        During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.

        • GenerationYHabs says:

          If it does go to arbitration and as you pointed out he will be a UFA next year, then I think it’s pretty safe to say you won’t be seeing him in a Habs jersey again after this season.

  35. RGM says:

    I get a strong feeling that we’ll hear about a new contract by Monday. It’s funny to see some people already acting as though they’re negotiators for the Canadiens and slamming the player to diminish his worth. Josh is a heart-and-soul player for this team and I think that he was very much in the running when the team was looking to name a new captain before selecting Gionta. His work ethic cannot be questioned (it seems a common trait amongst players that were never drafted – they have a chip on their shoulder and are determined to bust their butts to prove something to everybody) and neither can his leadership qualities. I’m predicting 3 years, $8.25M for him.

    During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.

    • G-Man says:

      His decision not to have surgery 6 years ago wasn’t very wise. It was only a matter of time before that knee seized up.
      It isn’t slamming him; it’s looking at Gorges for what he brings. No points. Good on PK. Not terribly physical.
      Habs have tons of leadership in the room.

      • RGM says:

        It was absolutely the right decision for him. He was never drafted, so if he doesn’t continue playing right after graduating from the Rockets as a walk-on in San Jose, he’s done at age 20.

        During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.

        • ed lopaz says:

          absolutely agree that NOT having the surgery was the right choice to make,

          he played well enough over the last 6 years to become a full time, legit, NHL defenceman.

          Habs hockey is “smart” hockey – we play 5 man defence, not just 2 – we move up the ice as a 5 man unit, we back check with 5.

    • 24 Cups says:

      RGM – I think it’s a two-way street when it comes to evaluating Gorges. Some people may slam him but he has also been viewed through rose coloured glasses by many on the site. I think that’s partly due to the fact that MB hyped him up right from the time he first arrived (My man, Gorges).

      On the positive side, Gorges is a steady-eddie who gives his heart and soul while being a good team player (and/or leader). He also is a valuable component of the PK unit. On the other hand, he is strictly a defensive Dman (nothing wrong with that) who loses as many battles as he wins. If you watch objectively, you will notice that he sometimes gets pushed off the puck when it comes to battles in front of the net or in the corners. Is he a top pairing Dman? Not over the course of a 100 game extended season.

      As for his new contract, we are still living in an over-heated market which will probably be reflected somewhat in his new deal. I can live with that.

      • RGM says:

        I take as much credit as Boone for the hyping. LOL I’ve been watching him play since his Kelowna days so I’ve been on this particular bandwagon for many years now. I get that he’s undersized, not the most physical guy, etc., and I can see how that will be used against him. But he’s always given his all and I think the 2009 playoffs run, where he and Skillsy shut down Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin effectively (at least, enough for the Habs to make it past the Caps & Pens) demonstrates that he’s very capable of playing top minutes against top guys.

        During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.

        • GenerationYHabs says:

          Isn’t he 6’1 ? He’s definetly not a monster but I wouldn’t call that undersized.

          • RGM says:

            6’1″, 190lbs. is fairly small for an NHL d-man these days. Obviously not everybody is Chara- or Pronger-sized, but most guys are 6’2″ and up, and usually 210lbs. and higher. But as Ryan O’Byrne demonstrates, it’s not the size of the body but what you do with it that counts.

            During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.

  36. Ian Cobb says:

    Gorges will get between 3.4 and 3.8 million a year for three years.
    If they do not give him that much, he should and will play out this year and move on.

    • DearyLeary says:

      Find me a similar player in the NHL that makes (or made) that kind of money for the role that Gorges fills.

      • Ian Cobb says:

        He is our 3rd best defense man worth 3 million plus. Others will pay it if we won’t

        • DearyLeary says:

          Others are going to put an offer sheet down for Gorges? yeah… right. For that kind of money a team is giving up a 1st and a 3rd round pick. It’ll likely be a team that’s not making the playoffs, and I’d take that deal in a second.

          He’ll make 2.5-3. They won’t go to arbitration either (if they go to arbitration expect closer to 2.5).

        • G-Man says:

          He isn’t worth anywhere north of $3 mil. More like $2.
          -edit- That’s right! He’s worth a toonie! :D

          • Jan_pronounced_Yan says:

            Man, if PG got Gorges to sign for 2 bucks, we would still have enough cap space left to throw a crazy offer sheet at Doughty. Get it done PG!

      • RGM says:

        Rob Scuderi. Anton Volchenkov.

        There, I did you one better.

        During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.

    • BeeGee says:

      Ouch. I hope he doesn’t get that much. I like Gorges a lot but he’s a bottom pairing D man (at best a #4) who does excellent work on the PK. Not worth more than 3 IMHO.

    • Everlasting1 says:

      For a d-man who doesn’t rack up points (albeit defensively sound) I wouldn’t pay him a nickel over 2.75/yr.

      ——————————————————————-
      “God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: “How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Psalms 82:1-2

      “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Ian, agree. Would have to pay a bit more for buying free agent years.
      BTW I am chrsadiens Dad. Nice to meet u.

  37. RGM says:

    I don’t know if we have any other hockey card collectors amongst us, but check out this gem of a Carey Price card that sold yesterday for, you guessed it, $1531.00 : http://cgi.ebay.com/10-11-Ultimate-Signature-Logo-Carey-Price-1-1-So-Sick-/220817091362

    During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.

  38. j0nHABS says:

    This should happen before arbitration! Gorges can’t be asking for the moon, and the habs can’t be asking him to sign for nothing. Its crazy that it has gone this far! If this does go to arbitration it would be a little slap in the face of Gorges, I would hate to see him lose his motivation to compete as hard as he does for the habs!

    Is it October Yet??

    • G-Man says:

      We don’t know what Gorges is asking. He is not worth more than $2 to $2.5 max. He doesn’t put up the points to be worth any more and he’s not a physically punishing hitter and has trouble clearing the front of the net. How much is the going rate for a 3rd pairing Dman that does PK work?

  39. Biggest_Greek_HABSfun says:

    GET IT DONE PIERRE !

  40. HalifaxHabs says:

    I messed up on the date… but I’m sticking with my prediction for the contract.

    3 years/8 million.

  41. slamtherimtim says:

    he doesnt deserve a penny over 2.5 and that may be too much , great guy , but talent wise just doesnt have it , being a HAB we think hes the greatest , but hes a 3rd or 4th Dman at best

    • SyntaxLove says:

      Agreed, but the market value on D of his caliber is over-inflated right now so he’ll probably get more.

    • JayBee says:

      I don’t even think he’s that high. He’s a good bottom pairing D man.

    • j0nHABS says:

      He is definitely worth 2.5, if that is the number they will settle on then I’ll be able to live with it, I would even be okay with 3. He is solid stay at home D, he may not get the points but he competes harder than most and is better than most at shutting down top lines. It would be in the Habs interest to keep him short long term, something like 5 years,! Not much risk there in my mind, and 2.5 to 3 wouldn’t be scary to other teams if he had to be traded for whatever reason.

      Is it October Yet??

    • punkster says:

      As the saying goes, deserve’s got nothing to do with it. It’s market economics.

      ***Subbang Baby!!!***

    • RGM says:

      When you look at other players in the same mold as Josh, $2.5M is well below market value. Look at Rob Scuderi’s contract in Los Angeles and Anton Volchenkov in New Jersey. Same offensive numbers and very similar defensive numbers (blocks, hits, etc.) so while I’m sure that Josh loves Montreal I don’t think he’ll be taking a deep discount to continue playing here. We can argue whether or not Scuderi and Volchenkov deserve the numbers they got, but since they got them, that’s the market for comparables.

      During the long summer, we all get to be pretend GM.

  42. Habfan10912 says:

    Solid defenseman who does not make many mistakes in our own end. Not sure I agree with the franchise about Josh’s skating. I’d also rank him above Spacek. Like Price last year, this will get done in a few days. I am thinking 2 years 3.25 per. BTW. Dangerous heat today so you all be careful and check on elderly and pets.

  43. SyntaxLove says:

    I just assumed the issue would be monetary for New York, with only approximately $5mil left in cap space and two young stars to sign at (i would imagine) a hefty raise. Dubinsky is a player who most definitely deserves $4+ mil in a 3-6 year contract, unlike many of the inflated UFAs of the season. He’s a Ranger pureblood; I don’t understand why term length would be an issue? He’s arguably a franchise player. It baffles me.

  44. The_Franchise31 says:

    im a big fan of goerges but he only made 1.1 mil last year so all this talk about him getting 3-4 mil a season is crazy. if thats what we wants then sign him for one year and let him go next year. he gets worked in the corners and, aside from gill, is the worst skater on the team. anything less then 2.5 would make me happy

  45. jwarren11 says:

    Anyone know when ticket sales begin? Have a group of 8 looking to catch a Habs vs Leafs game.

  46. Chuck Chuck Goose says:

    I know he’s gonna sign, but I really would like it done sooner rather than later…….you know, before the Leafs sign him to an offer sheet

  47. Keith says:

    PG, get Gorges signed ASAP!!! Off to work I goooooooo!!!


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